The following episode was recorded before the WGA sag Aftra strikes of twenty twenty three.

The following episode was recorded before the WGA sag Aftra strikes of twenty twenty three.

Hey guys, welcome to the very first episode six Degrees with Kevin Bacon. Every week, I'm going to be sitting down with some of your favorite celebrities as well as leaders from their favorite nonprofits, and we are going to highlight some of the most pressing social issues of our time. So tune in every Tuesday for your weekly dose of do gooders. Now, let's start the show, And what a way to be kicking this off with one of my absolute favorite actors. I am constantly in all of the work that this man does on the screen and off A great, great person, a great citizen of the world, and a terrific and versatile performer. Mister Mark Refle So happy to have Mark Ruffalo here today. Well, we've known each other for a long time. But you know, it's funny because I actually, and this is embarrassing to say, I've forgotten that we'd actually worked together. I mean, we didn't really work together, but we were in the same movie, yeah, which was in the cut. That's right, And I I We're going to get into your activism and the and the organization, et cetera. I just want to shoot the ship just for a little bit. I remember that two things about that movie. One was that I wanted your part really, really badly, and Jane Campion was like, now, are you out of your mind? I got fucking Ruffalo and you're not. You're not going to play this part. And so she came back and said, well, there is this weird, you know, tiny little thing. And I was like, okay, cool. I mean, she's like, you know, an amazing director and you were were doing it and Meg and I, you know, and my wife always jokes with me that I have this way of finding like these incredibly important directors and doing the one movie with them that nobody saw. Like she says, that's like my talent. And I thought you were great in the movie. And it was a really cool movie, very very interesting, trippy, like in the way it was shot, you know, if I remember correctly, yes, all that kind of like split diopter stuff and yes, all this kind of crazy shit going on, but it was not. It didn't make it. Nobody put on a tuxedo. Let's say.

Hey guys, welcome to the very first episode six Degrees with Kevin Bacon. Every week, I'm going to be sitting down with some of your favorite celebrities as well as leaders from their favorite nonprofits, and we are going to highlight some of the most pressing social issues of our time. So tune in every Tuesday for your weekly dose of do gooders. Now, let's start the show, And what a way to be kicking this off with one of my absolute favorite actors. I am constantly in all of the work that this man does on the screen and off A great, great person, a great citizen of the world, and a terrific and versatile performer. Mister Mark Refle So happy to have Mark Ruffalo here today. Well, we've known each other for a long time. But you know, it's funny because I actually, and this is embarrassing to say, I've forgotten that we'd actually worked together. I mean, we didn't really work together, but we were in the same movie, yeah, which was in the cut. That's right, And I I We're going to get into your activism and the and the organization, et cetera. I just want to shoot the ship just for a little bit. I remember that two things about that movie. One was that I wanted your part really, really badly, and Jane Campion was like, now, are you out of your mind? I got fucking Ruffalo and you're not. You're not going to play this part. And so she came back and said, well, there is this weird, you know, tiny little thing. And I was like, okay, cool. I mean, she's like, you know, an amazing director and you were were doing it and Meg and I, you know, and my wife always jokes with me that I have this way of finding like these incredibly important directors and doing the one movie with them that nobody saw. Like she says, that's like my talent. And I thought you were great in the movie. And it was a really cool movie, very very interesting, trippy, like in the way it was shot, you know, if I remember correctly, yes, all that kind of like split diopter stuff and yes, all this kind of crazy shit going on, but it was not. It didn't make it. Nobody put on a tuxedo. Let's say.

No, No, it was quite I remember, Yeah, I think it's such a I think it's underappreciated obviously, and you were great in it too, by the way. And but yeah, I think there was such a backlash to first of all, the audience. I don't think wanted to see Meg Meg like that, you know. I remember there's a lot of a lot of the criticism was to see her like that was too disturbing for people.

No, No, it was quite I remember, Yeah, I think it's such a I think it's underappreciated obviously, and you were great in it too, by the way. And but yeah, I think there was such a backlash to first of all, the audience. I don't think wanted to see Meg Meg like that, you know. I remember there's a lot of a lot of the criticism was to see her like that was too disturbing for people.

Which is just so wrong. I mean, you know, and it's interesting when you have the kind of huge success that she has really, as you know, she was America Sweetheart clearly, you know, and it very very had a very kind of specific kind of thing. And then to kind of you know as well as I do that, well, I mean, speak to me about that. Like, you are an actor, an incredible actor, if I may say, who is not in any way pigeonholed in terms of the things or the kinds of parts that you do, or the size of the movies that you do, or the tone of the movies that you do. You really have an incredible kind of diversity. But I have felt, and I'd like to hear your feelings about this, that getting that in this business is a is a real struggle for sure.

Which is just so wrong. I mean, you know, and it's interesting when you have the kind of huge success that she has really, as you know, she was America Sweetheart clearly, you know, and it very very had a very kind of specific kind of thing. And then to kind of you know as well as I do that, well, I mean, speak to me about that. Like, you are an actor, an incredible actor, if I may say, who is not in any way pigeonholed in terms of the things or the kinds of parts that you do, or the size of the movies that you do, or the tone of the movies that you do. You really have an incredible kind of diversity. But I have felt, and I'd like to hear your feelings about this, that getting that in this business is a is a real struggle for sure.

First of all, want to say, I did think with Meg it felt a little sexist to me, you know, you know, it's like, it's much harder, I think, for a woman to do that than a guy. You know, they celebrate it when a guy does it all then look at you did it while he's doing something new. You know, he changed it up. It is incredibly hard, and you know you've done the same thing. You just have to, you know, I found myself always having to fight against you know, people think they know you. Casting directors, think they know your directors, think they know you do You do one part, and you do it well, and then everyone thinks, oh, that's who you must be, right, yeah, but but it isn't and and we're much bigger than but you know, no one they don't know, but they don't have the imagination or they just they haven't seen you do much of anything yet. And so it was always this kind of fight to stay ahead of that and to make sure early on that what I was doing wasn't a repeat of I know this. I mean, you can count on me, you know. I specifically try to do something totally different than that, just to keep widening the brackets of what people thought was possible.

First of all, want to say, I did think with Meg it felt a little sexist to me, you know, you know, it's like, it's much harder, I think, for a woman to do that than a guy. You know, they celebrate it when a guy does it all then look at you did it while he's doing something new. You know, he changed it up. It is incredibly hard, and you know you've done the same thing. You just have to, you know, I found myself always having to fight against you know, people think they know you. Casting directors, think they know your directors, think they know you do You do one part, and you do it well, and then everyone thinks, oh, that's who you must be, right, yeah, but but it isn't and and we're much bigger than but you know, no one they don't know, but they don't have the imagination or they just they haven't seen you do much of anything yet. And so it was always this kind of fight to stay ahead of that and to make sure early on that what I was doing wasn't a repeat of I know this. I mean, you can count on me, you know. I specifically try to do something totally different than that, just to keep widening the brackets of what people thought was possible.

By the way. It was incredible and you were incredible in it, and I think that was probably the first time that I saw you. You know, it was just so it was so great, and you're right. I mean, you do something well and they want to see you do it again.

By the way. It was incredible and you were incredible in it, and I think that was probably the first time that I saw you. You know, it was just so it was so great, and you're right. I mean, you do something well and they want to see you do it again.

I mean, how many dance movies where you offered you know?

I mean, how many dance movies where you offered you know?

Well, I'll tell you. The next movie that I did after the dance movie was a bike movie. And I did it because it had this The director kept saying to me, I'm gonna have this kind of gritty you know score. He kept talking about Scorsese, you know, and like that was my whole hero world was the whole Scorsese, you know, the narrow Paccino New Yorky kind of thing, and we're shooting New York and it was going to be gritty, gritty, greedy kept taking gritty. By the time the movie filmed, I had a dance sequence on a bike.

Well, I'll tell you. The next movie that I did after the dance movie was a bike movie. And I did it because it had this The director kept saying to me, I'm gonna have this kind of gritty you know score. He kept talking about Scorsese, you know, and like that was my whole hero world was the whole Scorsese, you know, the narrow Paccino New Yorky kind of thing, and we're shooting New York and it was going to be gritty, gritty, greedy kept taking gritty. By the time the movie filmed, I had a dance sequence on a bike.

I remember.

I remember.

It was just the worst. I mean, I snunk it up on me and I tried to push back, but to no avail. And I you know, to this day, honestly, it's funny that you bring that up. I think of I think of that as exactly the issue that we're really talking about is that you know, I was trying to go in a different direction and I just it was just like they're just pulling me back to you know, you know America's whatever, dancer or whatever. I was. So I admire you for, you know, for stepping outside. I mean, what, let me ask you this, what was it that gave you the confidence? You know, even after you can count on me to to make you think that you could do that?

It was just the worst. I mean, I snunk it up on me and I tried to push back, but to no avail. And I you know, to this day, honestly, it's funny that you bring that up. I think of I think of that as exactly the issue that we're really talking about is that you know, I was trying to go in a different direction and I just it was just like they're just pulling me back to you know, you know America's whatever, dancer or whatever. I was. So I admire you for, you know, for stepping outside. I mean, what, let me ask you this, what was it that gave you the confidence? You know, even after you can count on me to to make you think that you could do that?

You know, honestly, it was it was all the years that I was struggling. And in those years, you know, the thirteen years, dude, you can count on me, was all theater, you know, it was all this little you know, I was living in LA so you could do like a three thousand dollars production. It wasn't like New York where you have to have half a million dollars to do like the crappiest little thing anywhere. You know. It was like we could do it three thousand dollars production. So in those thirteen years, I'd done you know, like thirty five plays.

You know, honestly, it was it was all the years that I was struggling. And in those years, you know, the thirteen years, dude, you can count on me, was all theater, you know, it was all this little you know, I was living in LA so you could do like a three thousand dollars production. It wasn't like New York where you have to have half a million dollars to do like the crappiest little thing anywhere. You know. It was like we could do it three thousand dollars production. So in those thirteen years, I'd done you know, like thirty five plays.

And in the course, okay, so I mean you left home, you moved to New York, I mean to LA, not to New York. Yeah, yeah, when I was ok okay, okay, and yeah, where were you coming from? Where were you coming from?

And in the course, okay, so I mean you left home, you moved to New York, I mean to LA, not to New York. Yeah, yeah, when I was ok okay, okay, and yeah, where were you coming from? Where were you coming from?

So I was coming from at that point, I was coming from I was coming from California. No, I was in Californa. I was in California, but I was coming from Virginia Beach, where I spent part of my teenage years, and the rest of them were in Wisconsin.

So I was coming from at that point, I was coming from I was coming from California. No, I was in Californa. I was in California, but I was coming from Virginia Beach, where I spent part of my teenage years, and the rest of them were in Wisconsin.

Okay.

Okay.

And so by the time I was eighteen, I had moved, My family had moved like six times.

And so by the time I was eighteen, I had moved, My family had moved like six times.

Wow.

Wow.

You know. So I also started to understand that, you know, a personality wasn't muted or mutable. It was like something that was constant could be was malleable, you know. And and and you know, moving that many times you're sort of recreating yourself with a different friend group and so on and so forth. You're just so self possessed that you never change.

You know. So I also started to understand that, you know, a personality wasn't muted or mutable. It was like something that was constant could be was malleable, you know. And and and you know, moving that many times you're sort of recreating yourself with a different friend group and so on and so forth. You're just so self possessed that you never change.

Ever.

Ever.

I wasn't that guy.

I wasn't that guy.

Right, right, and so you so you were all it was already kind of laying the foundation for understanding how to walk in somebody else's shoes because you were trying to to to fit in to to to to definitely yeah, yeah, years, Yeah, I think a lot of the same way. Yeah, yeah, I remember that I'm feeling a way. And you know there were times that I sometimes, I don't know if you ever had this, where I would sometimes have a you know, a dark day and feel that I wasn't really being authentic in anything because there were some people who were just so specifically like that guy, and because my friends were you know, kind of all over the map and my my point of view, and like I had friend groups that really wouldn't intern act with each other. You know, sometimes I felt a little i don't know, fake or something. You know.

Right, right, and so you so you were all it was already kind of laying the foundation for understanding how to walk in somebody else's shoes because you were trying to to to fit in to to to to definitely yeah, yeah, years, Yeah, I think a lot of the same way. Yeah, yeah, I remember that I'm feeling a way. And you know there were times that I sometimes, I don't know if you ever had this, where I would sometimes have a you know, a dark day and feel that I wasn't really being authentic in anything because there were some people who were just so specifically like that guy, and because my friends were you know, kind of all over the map and my my point of view, and like I had friend groups that really wouldn't intern act with each other. You know, sometimes I felt a little i don't know, fake or something. You know.

Well, yeah, well I was the same way. You know I could have. I was with the wrestlers, I was with the stoners, I was with the you know, the punk rockers. I was with the skaters, I was the surfers.

Well, yeah, well I was the same way. You know I could have. I was with the wrestlers, I was with the stoners, I was with the you know, the punk rockers. I was with the skaters, I was the surfers.

And know, I can I can move all those groups, you know. But I know, so you met, you went to LA and did theater in l A.

And know, I can I can move all those groups, you know. But I know, so you met, you went to LA and did theater in l A.

Yeah.

Yeah.

See that's really interesting because, uh, you know what, I never really even considered going to LA because I was coming from Philly so it was a short trip, and and New York was you know, I had a kind of a romanticized idea of what a New York actor was, but it was also because of the theater and the idea of I mean, uh, actually doing theater in LA was like very far, but that's totally cool.

See that's really interesting because, uh, you know what, I never really even considered going to LA because I was coming from Philly so it was a short trip, and and New York was you know, I had a kind of a romanticized idea of what a New York actor was, but it was also because of the theater and the idea of I mean, uh, actually doing theater in LA was like very far, but that's totally cool.

Who did that? I mean, you know who goes to LA to do theater? And you know, the funny and the hilarious thing was as I'd been doing theater there for so long and I had been begging casting directors to come and see it, and I came to New York to do a play. I did This is Our Youth, which was like it just exploded right, and all the LA casting directors are like, where the fuck did you come from? And I was like, motherfucker's I been under your nose for the plast thirteen years doing this exact same thing.

Who did that? I mean, you know who goes to LA to do theater? And you know, the funny and the hilarious thing was as I'd been doing theater there for so long and I had been begging casting directors to come and see it, and I came to New York to do a play. I did This is Our Youth, which was like it just exploded right, and all the LA casting directors are like, where the fuck did you come from? And I was like, motherfucker's I been under your nose for the plast thirteen years doing this exact same thing.

You know, Yeah, that's funny because that was kind of I remember people saying, well, you could go to LA and do a play. But the great thing about that is that all the casting directors when you get to LA will all come to the theater. And I have my doubts. That's really interest because they were all, you know whatever, having dinner at the Ivy. But that's that is a that a that's fascinating. So do you think that getting a bunch of theater under your belt has had has uh contributed to this, you know, ability to be diverse in the in the in the parts that you play.

You know, Yeah, that's funny because that was kind of I remember people saying, well, you could go to LA and do a play. But the great thing about that is that all the casting directors when you get to LA will all come to the theater. And I have my doubts. That's really interest because they were all, you know whatever, having dinner at the Ivy. But that's that is a that a that's fascinating. So do you think that getting a bunch of theater under your belt has had has uh contributed to this, you know, ability to be diverse in the in the in the parts that you play.

Absolutely. I mean, you know, I was doing Shakespeare, I was doing Chekov, I was doing you know, modern stuff that we were writing.

Absolutely. I mean, you know, I was doing Shakespeare, I was doing Chekov, I was doing you know, modern stuff that we were writing.

I was doing.

I was doing.

We were doing David Ray, we were doing O'Neill. We're doing Tennessee Williams, we were doing every we were doing Moliere, we were doing Uh, we were doing Bernard Shaw. We were doing so many different styles and ages and time periods that I just I just became very fluid in my understanding of style, my understanding of forrest, my understanding of comedy, my understanding of drama. You know, and then and then just all that character work that you're doing along the way, and you just you just came to see that, you know, there really was as an as an actor, there really was no limitations. You weren't just a comic actor, or you weren't just a dramatic actor. And the best actors are actually one foot on a banana peel and the other in the grave. You know, where you could where you could shift those gears.

We were doing David Ray, we were doing O'Neill. We're doing Tennessee Williams, we were doing every we were doing Moliere, we were doing Uh, we were doing Bernard Shaw. We were doing so many different styles and ages and time periods that I just I just became very fluid in my understanding of style, my understanding of forrest, my understanding of comedy, my understanding of drama. You know, and then and then just all that character work that you're doing along the way, and you just you just came to see that, you know, there really was as an as an actor, there really was no limitations. You weren't just a comic actor, or you weren't just a dramatic actor. And the best actors are actually one foot on a banana peel and the other in the grave. You know, where you could where you could shift those gears.

You know, Yeah, easily. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean I remember having a little notion about theater, and that was that you know, if you that that when they were casting television and movies in in in New York, that they were really they wanted the actual person to the closest they could, like it was the closest that they could find to the actual person. If they you know, the kid was supposed to be from Brooklyn, they wanted to get from Brooklyn. Yeah, that that that was the person that the they got the part. But theater was not that way. If you went and auditioned and did a good job portraying that character in the audition in that you know, on that stage, then you would get the part. And I noticed that really really early on. And I don't know about you, but I think part of it is that, you know, film is so in your face, and I think the directors get really afraid of something becoming being false. You know, acting. Yeah, see you acting now, that's exactly right.

You know, Yeah, easily. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean I remember having a little notion about theater, and that was that you know, if you that that when they were casting television and movies in in in New York, that they were really they wanted the actual person to the closest they could, like it was the closest that they could find to the actual person. If they you know, the kid was supposed to be from Brooklyn, they wanted to get from Brooklyn. Yeah, that that that was the person that the they got the part. But theater was not that way. If you went and auditioned and did a good job portraying that character in the audition in that you know, on that stage, then you would get the part. And I noticed that really really early on. And I don't know about you, but I think part of it is that, you know, film is so in your face, and I think the directors get really afraid of something becoming being false. You know, acting. Yeah, see you acting now, that's exactly right.

Yeah, yeah, I mean especially when you're young too, because you only are one thing when you're young, you know, the idea of you being anything more than what you walk in the door with. For a casting direct there is as far as they can see. You know, I just did this documentary. Someone was just giving me shit about this, But I just did this docum my wife, I just did this documentary about Bonnie Timmerman, the great you know casting director.

Yeah, yeah, I mean especially when you're young too, because you only are one thing when you're young, you know, the idea of you being anything more than what you walk in the door with. For a casting direct there is as far as they can see. You know, I just did this documentary. Someone was just giving me shit about this, But I just did this docum my wife, I just did this documentary about Bonnie Timmerman, the great you know casting director.

Who you did it? You directed it?

Who you did it? You directed it?

No? No, not I. I did an interview for it because because she's someone I knew. I never got a part, right, but she asked me to do this, uh, this doc and they use a clip in this thing where I'm arguing with Michael Bay that I could play somebody other than who he thought I was, you know, and I was so righteous and it's it's it's embarrassing now.

No? No, not I. I did an interview for it because because she's someone I knew. I never got a part, right, but she asked me to do this, uh, this doc and they use a clip in this thing where I'm arguing with Michael Bay that I could play somebody other than who he thought I was, you know, and I was so righteous and it's it's it's embarrassing now.

But what happened was they got me in for.

But what happened was they got me in for.

One part, you know, and then halfway through the part he's like, go, no, no, no, you're not right for this part. Go read this part. So I went out and prepared for the part, and when I came back in, he's like, you're too young for this part. And I got pissed.

One part, you know, and then halfway through the part he's like, go, no, no, no, you're not right for this part. Go read this part. So I went out and prepared for the part, and when I came back in, he's like, you're too young for this part. And I got pissed.

Man.

Man.

I was like, you know, you asked me to come up, you know, and that's the that's the clip they used.

I was like, you know, you asked me to come up, you know, and that's the that's the clip they used.

Of course, Oh that's great. I got to see. This has to come out yet, this Bonnie Timmerman.

Of course, Oh that's great. I got to see. This has to come out yet, this Bonnie Timmerman.

Yeah, yeah, it's been out for a while. It's it's floating around on the internet. That clip.

Yeah, yeah, it's been out for a while. It's it's floating around on the internet. That clip.

I gotta check it out. I gotta check it out. I remember that. I think it was Bonnie who always had the polaroids, right, Yeah, you always you always had started that. Yeah, you always had to take a polaroid, And there was a there's a at one point, I don't know. I guess I'd been doing enough stuff for I've been in the office enough times where I was like, I do I have to take a fucking polaroid? I mean, come on, you know what I look like, right, you know?

I gotta check it out. I gotta check it out. I remember that. I think it was Bonnie who always had the polaroids, right, Yeah, you always you always had started that. Yeah, you always had to take a polaroid, And there was a there's a at one point, I don't know. I guess I'd been doing enough stuff for I've been in the office enough times where I was like, I do I have to take a fucking polaroid? I mean, come on, you know what I look like, right, you know?

Anyway, that's not she she uh, she told me that she did that because remember how we had to do they don't do this the same way. And remember how we had to do head shots and you'd have your like headshot if you played tennis, the headshot with your scuba you're on. They had to do all the character headshot or preppy headshot and right, and so you know, she was fighting against that kind of affectation, which is why she wanted to do those bullet rights. But yeah, it was like what it was, are you putting a book together? Like, why, you know, I don't have any makeup on. I'm wearing a T shirt, you know. But that's that's what Bonnie wanted and she you know.

Anyway, that's not she she uh, she told me that she did that because remember how we had to do they don't do this the same way. And remember how we had to do head shots and you'd have your like headshot if you played tennis, the headshot with your scuba you're on. They had to do all the character headshot or preppy headshot and right, and so you know, she was fighting against that kind of affectation, which is why she wanted to do those bullet rights. But yeah, it was like what it was, are you putting a book together? Like, why, you know, I don't have any makeup on. I'm wearing a T shirt, you know. But that's that's what Bonnie wanted and she you know.

It makes a lot of sense really because I mean, those those head shots are I mean, to this day, they're just oh they're embarrassed. I mean they're embarrassing, you know. I And I remember having, uh that, that the the when I finally got an agent and this will probably be I guess maybe seventy nine or something like that, and he said, uh, you have to get a head shot. And the photographer is a Gerard Barnier. Do you remember this name? He was a he was a headshot he was the head shot photographer.

It makes a lot of sense really because I mean, those those head shots are I mean, to this day, they're just oh they're embarrassed. I mean they're embarrassing, you know. I And I remember having, uh that, that the the when I finally got an agent and this will probably be I guess maybe seventy nine or something like that, and he said, uh, you have to get a head shot. And the photographer is a Gerard Barnier. Do you remember this name? He was a he was a headshot he was the head shot photographer.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it was something like, to me, like an outrageous amount of money. It was something like five hundred bucks. Yeah, nothing like that. And I was like, I got how am I good? How am I going to get five hundred dollars to have it to have a picture taken? I can't can't like you know, my cousin take it or something. But now they had to get had to get your Arbonne. I think I still have those pictures. They're pretty bad. Yeah, we we.

And it was something like, to me, like an outrageous amount of money. It was something like five hundred bucks. Yeah, nothing like that. And I was like, I got how am I good? How am I going to get five hundred dollars to have it to have a picture taken? I can't can't like you know, my cousin take it or something. But now they had to get had to get your Arbonne. I think I still have those pictures. They're pretty bad. Yeah, we we.

Had like that there was a you know, then there was a scale down version. We had like one hundred dollars person who we all went to, which was literally out. I was always outside with a you know, a bounce sport. You're holding your own bound sport for the shot. Oh my god, yeah, man, five hundred bucks to us is like that was that was like two months rent you.

Had like that there was a you know, then there was a scale down version. We had like one hundred dollars person who we all went to, which was literally out. I was always outside with a you know, a bounce sport. You're holding your own bound sport for the shot. Oh my god, yeah, man, five hundred bucks to us is like that was that was like two months rent you.

Know, No, no, no, that was that was crazy, crazy, crazy crazy. I I maybe it was less, but I remember it just being so.

Know, No, no, no, that was that was crazy, crazy, crazy crazy. I I maybe it was less, but I remember it just being so.

No, it was. It was that expensive. It was. And there was some people that I rememberer. I can't even remember their names, but there's people in LA that were making a grand to do headshots in the late eighties.

No, it was. It was that expensive. It was. And there was some people that I rememberer. I can't even remember their names, but there's people in LA that were making a grand to do headshots in the late eighties.

But now you have this thing. Okay that again, I don't I can't, off the top of my head think of somebody who is able to coexist between you know, you're awesome Marvel World and then these movies that are completely in another sort of direction in the world and in a totally different kind of budget range and stuff that's like about something serious and things that you care about, and you have them both happening at the same time. And and first off, it's it's it's sometimes when I think about how long these these superhero movies take them. Sometimes. I when I look at your career, I think, how did he fit all of this in? You know, I mean that it's in it itself, must must have been a challenge or must continue to be a challenge. But also is there ever a time when you kind of go, I mean, I'm gonna know the answer to this, but we ever, we're just kinda go, well, you know, yeah, I mean I was, you know, working on a on on the on the big movie for a long time. Now I'm just gonna you know, I don't want to do anything else for a little while. I just want to rest, you know.

But now you have this thing. Okay that again, I don't I can't, off the top of my head think of somebody who is able to coexist between you know, you're awesome Marvel World and then these movies that are completely in another sort of direction in the world and in a totally different kind of budget range and stuff that's like about something serious and things that you care about, and you have them both happening at the same time. And and first off, it's it's it's sometimes when I think about how long these these superhero movies take them. Sometimes. I when I look at your career, I think, how did he fit all of this in? You know, I mean that it's in it itself, must must have been a challenge or must continue to be a challenge. But also is there ever a time when you kind of go, I mean, I'm gonna know the answer to this, but we ever, we're just kinda go, well, you know, yeah, I mean I was, you know, working on a on on the on the big movie for a long time. Now I'm just gonna you know, I don't want to do anything else for a little while. I just want to rest, you know.

I I it's funny you bring that up, because I probably in the last three years have been away from home, you know, in in chunks, probably about a year and a half, almost two years, running back and forth between year in Europe. And I mean, I you know, I used to.

I I it's funny you bring that up, because I probably in the last three years have been away from home, you know, in in chunks, probably about a year and a half, almost two years, running back and forth between year in Europe. And I mean, I you know, I used to.

I was on it.

I was on it.

I don't know what. I thought I was going to die young.

I don't know what. I thought I was going to die young.

So I was just.

So I was just.

Trying to get as much in as I possibly could, you know. Yeah, in a way, yeah, I mean I was like, I gotta I was driven. I don't know, I don't know what it was. And then I just burned out, and so I said, I need to take a year off, which is which is basically what I've been doing in the middle of and it's been I mean, we had COVID and all that happened, but that was just so stressful that, you know, it was so kind of traumatic and and it was hard to really rest because you didn't know, you know, when you're going to get another job, and you know, if you're going to refinance a house, all those things that were happening during that time. So yeah, I mean, yeah, I definitely got to the place where where I just felt totally burned out and I and I and I was like, I don't know if I I don't know if I ever really want to act again. I'm not even enjoying anymore. I mean, I'm sure everyone gets to some version of that at some point, and uh, yeah.

Trying to get as much in as I possibly could, you know. Yeah, in a way, yeah, I mean I was like, I gotta I was driven. I don't know, I don't know what it was. And then I just burned out, and so I said, I need to take a year off, which is which is basically what I've been doing in the middle of and it's been I mean, we had COVID and all that happened, but that was just so stressful that, you know, it was so kind of traumatic and and it was hard to really rest because you didn't know, you know, when you're going to get another job, and you know, if you're going to refinance a house, all those things that were happening during that time. So yeah, I mean, yeah, I definitely got to the place where where I just felt totally burned out and I and I and I was like, I don't know if I I don't know if I ever really want to act again. I'm not even enjoying anymore. I mean, I'm sure everyone gets to some version of that at some point, and uh, yeah.

But have you gotten past it or or is that still kind of how you're feeling?

But have you gotten past it or or is that still kind of how you're feeling?

Yeah?

Yeah?

Yeah, you know, I go to the Art Students League and just started a sculpture class, and it's just like that's like you love you know, Oh yeah, yeah.

Yeah, you know, I go to the Art Students League and just started a sculpture class, and it's just like that's like you love you know, Oh yeah, yeah.

That's such a that's such a that's such a cool place.

That's such a that's such a that's such a cool place.

Oh my god, it's I mean, my sister.

Oh my god, it's I mean, my sister.

My sister goes. She used to go when she was living in New York and sometimes I would go over and you know, kind of see what she was working on and stuff. It's it's it's it's a for people that don't know it's it's it's a it's a it's a place for artists and to work out, and it's it's it's probably been there since oh gosh, I don't know, the eighteen hundreds.

My sister goes. She used to go when she was living in New York and sometimes I would go over and you know, kind of see what she was working on and stuff. It's it's it's it's a for people that don't know it's it's it's a it's a it's a place for artists and to work out, and it's it's it's probably been there since oh gosh, I don't know, the eighteen hundreds.

Maybe, Oh yeah, I mean it's probably one of the oldest establishments in New York City.

Maybe, Oh yeah, I mean it's probably one of the oldest establishments in New York City.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you know, you go and and any any any level of artist, from the rank beginner to the most you know, established artists are they're all working side by side, and it's affordable. I mean, you get studio space, you're there for five hours as a live model. You know, all the materials are there. I mean, it's it's just it's such an invaluable thing in New York City. It's surprised it's even left after Juliani and Blueberg. You know, let's make New York a luxury high rise built.

And you know, you go and and any any any level of artist, from the rank beginner to the most you know, established artists are they're all working side by side, and it's affordable. I mean, you get studio space, you're there for five hours as a live model. You know, all the materials are there. I mean, it's it's just it's such an invaluable thing in New York City. It's surprised it's even left after Juliani and Blueberg. You know, let's make New York a luxury high rise built.

Especially that right in that in that little zone too.

Especially that right in that in that little zone too.

Yeah, survive, you know, but it's it's thriving, it's beautiful, it's uh, you know, there's a quality there. It's diverse.

Yeah, survive, you know, but it's it's thriving, it's beautiful, it's uh, you know, there's a quality there. It's diverse.

You know, it's so you're sculpting. So so it was that was that relatively new or or or No.

You know, it's so you're sculpting. So so it was that was that relatively new or or or No.

It's something that I it's something I always fancied myself. I don't even I don't even know why. I was like, I'm going to be a sculptor. I'm gonna be a sculptor.

It's something that I it's something I always fancied myself. I don't even I don't even know why. I was like, I'm going to be a sculptor. I'm gonna be a sculptor.

Awesome. I love that.

Awesome. I love that.

And then finally I had some time to do it, and I made a promise to myself that I would, I would, you know, really spend these last few months doing it and just be a beginner. And uh, you know, put your put my phone down. It's like five hours of no phone and uh you're there for five hours. Yeah yeah wow. Yeah. And it's a life it's a life sculpting class. So it's it's very intense and quiet and and solemn, and you know, there's just such meditating, very meditative, and you know, you realize.

And then finally I had some time to do it, and I made a promise to myself that I would, I would, you know, really spend these last few months doing it and just be a beginner. And uh, you know, put your put my phone down. It's like five hours of no phone and uh you're there for five hours. Yeah yeah wow. Yeah. And it's a life it's a life sculpting class. So it's it's very intense and quiet and and solemn, and you know, there's just such meditating, very meditative, and you know, you realize.

Are you using tools or or your hands or in the us in.

Are you using tools or or your hands or in the us in.

Your hands mostly in the clay. I mean you're there's some tools there's a you know, my teacher, you know, you have a sculpting knife basically, or or even he's used will use like little plastic butter knives too, because you get that nice raking quality. But it's very minimal. But it's you're in the dirt, you know, you're in the mud, and uh, it's so primal and and you're you know, your focus is so extreme and you have to see, you know, you really have to see, and you realize how you know, we we think we see, oh that's a tree, you know, we we we label things. We'll immediately go to a label, but to really take the time to see is like its own discipline. And and I just find it incredibly soothing to me in this jangled you know techno digital, ultra ultra ultra ultra world we're living in. You know, it's just all this time.

Your hands mostly in the clay. I mean you're there's some tools there's a you know, my teacher, you know, you have a sculpting knife basically, or or even he's used will use like little plastic butter knives too, because you get that nice raking quality. But it's very minimal. But it's you're in the dirt, you know, you're in the mud, and uh, it's so primal and and you're you know, your focus is so extreme and you have to see, you know, you really have to see, and you realize how you know, we we think we see, oh that's a tree, you know, we we we label things. We'll immediately go to a label, but to really take the time to see is like its own discipline. And and I just find it incredibly soothing to me in this jangled you know techno digital, ultra ultra ultra ultra world we're living in. You know, it's just all this time.

That's great, that's great. I mean I think that uh, well, you know, we all we all can use different forms of mental soothing, of physical connection to two things that aren't on a screen. You know. It's well, it just seems like it's so important musing.

That's great, that's great. I mean I think that uh, well, you know, we all we all can use different forms of mental soothing, of physical connection to two things that aren't on a screen. You know. It's well, it just seems like it's so important musing.

I mean, is it your music like that for you?

I mean, is it your music like that for you?

Yeah, totally, totally yes, that's it for me. Music and the animals, you know, horses and all kinds of animals and and and you know, I find that, uh, you know, when you're playing music with people, you have to listen, you have to react, you have to you know, you have to group. And I even think that as an act is as an actors, you know, you've worked even in such extreme you know, technical situations, you know, way beyond any of the stuff that I've done. But even the difference between going from the stage to film, there is a lot of gear that sometimes can distract you from this exchange of the emotions and characters and eyes and and and and and bodies and and all this kind of stuff that that you know, you you I often say that you know, you you could. You got to make sure when you're when you're acting with somebody in a in a film, that you don't let all that gear get between you and and the person. And I would think that working in a in a in the in a you know, a green screen or digital or superhero kind of situation, it becomes even harder to fight against that.

Yeah, totally, totally yes, that's it for me. Music and the animals, you know, horses and all kinds of animals and and and you know, I find that, uh, you know, when you're playing music with people, you have to listen, you have to react, you have to you know, you have to group. And I even think that as an act is as an actors, you know, you've worked even in such extreme you know, technical situations, you know, way beyond any of the stuff that I've done. But even the difference between going from the stage to film, there is a lot of gear that sometimes can distract you from this exchange of the emotions and characters and eyes and and and and and bodies and and all this kind of stuff that that you know, you you I often say that you know, you you could. You got to make sure when you're when you're acting with somebody in a in a film, that you don't let all that gear get between you and and the person. And I would think that working in a in a in the in a you know, a green screen or digital or superhero kind of situation, it becomes even harder to fight against that.

Oh my god, it's so intense. I mean, when I'm doing the Hulk stuff I have. I have a helmet on that has like four cameras, you know, basically in my face, and you know, and and then a whole rig attached to me like a vest that has all of the digital recording system on it, you know, with the batteries. And then I'm in a suit that's basically skinned. I call it the man canceling suit because it makes you look big everywhere you want to look small, and small everywhere you want to big.

Oh my god, it's so intense. I mean, when I'm doing the Hulk stuff I have. I have a helmet on that has like four cameras, you know, basically in my face, and you know, and and then a whole rig attached to me like a vest that has all of the digital recording system on it, you know, with the batteries. And then I'm in a suit that's basically skinned. I call it the man canceling suit because it makes you look big everywhere you want to look small, and small everywhere you want to big.

I've been in suits like that before, you know what I'm saying, I do.

I've been in suits like that before, you know what I'm saying, I do.

And so, uh, I had I had a special loin cloth made for my because it was just it was too too revealing, you know, so the amount you know, getting used to that and trying to be present in it, and and and I'm standing on a box that makes me, you know, ten foot tall. So all the actors I'm working with are literally at at you know, crotch level. Thus the loin cloth, you know, and you're trying to you know, you're trying to do that thing. You're trying to listen and connect and and you.

And so, uh, I had I had a special loin cloth made for my because it was just it was too too revealing, you know, so the amount you know, getting used to that and trying to be present in it, and and and I'm standing on a box that makes me, you know, ten foot tall. So all the actors I'm working with are literally at at you know, crotch level. Thus the loin cloth, you know, and you're trying to you know, you're trying to do that thing. You're trying to listen and connect and and you.

Just have this.

Just have this.

You know. It was funny because we just did She Hulk and and I was breaking in Tatiana with all this technology, you know, and what it happened. What happens is is the technology takes over and the acting part becomes the sort of side side gig, you know, it's sort of the it's the augmentation, it's it's no, it was no longer the thing, you know. And and I really had to like fight and fight for her and teach her that we can't let this technology stand in front of what we do as performers, which is I think part of this big fight we're about to have with the.

You know. It was funny because we just did She Hulk and and I was breaking in Tatiana with all this technology, you know, and what it happened. What happens is is the technology takes over and the acting part becomes the sort of side side gig, you know, it's sort of the it's the augmentation, it's it's no, it was no longer the thing, you know. And and I really had to like fight and fight for her and teach her that we can't let this technology stand in front of what we do as performers, which is I think part of this big fight we're about to have with the.

Screen percent is and uh, it is really important to remember that and you know, to hold on to it. And we're going to have to We're going to have to fight to keep that in the forefront of people's minds. It's you know, it's ultimately never gonna work if if if we are you know, just recreated, and I can't wait to see that. I love Tatiana. She's so she's so good.

Screen percent is and uh, it is really important to remember that and you know, to hold on to it. And we're going to have to We're going to have to fight to keep that in the forefront of people's minds. It's you know, it's ultimately never gonna work if if if we are you know, just recreated, and I can't wait to see that. I love Tatiana. She's so she's so good.

I love her. It's so funny too, She's great and it man, she's just so good.

I love her. It's so funny too, She's great and it man, she's just so good.

You know, a lot of the movies that you've made, you know, Spotlight being a perfect example, have had a you know, a point of view, not you know, how can I put this a social point of view or an environmental point of view? Which which is going to I mean, did you come up with something like The Solutions Project because of that experience or do you sometimes look for those movies because of your your your feelings about the world.

You know, a lot of the movies that you've made, you know, Spotlight being a perfect example, have had a you know, a point of view, not you know, how can I put this a social point of view or an environmental point of view? Which which is going to I mean, did you come up with something like The Solutions Project because of that experience or do you sometimes look for those movies because of your your your feelings about the world.

You know, It's funny because well, first of all, I was always you know, Stella Adler was my teacher, and she was like, you have to be political. You have to be politically involved. You have to know what's happening. You know, even if you're playing something in the thirties, you have to know what the political scene was. You have to be involved in that part to understand the time and the place and who you're playing and and and their place in the world at that time.

You know, It's funny because well, first of all, I was always you know, Stella Adler was my teacher, and she was like, you have to be political. You have to be politically involved. You have to know what's happening. You know, even if you're playing something in the thirties, you have to know what the political scene was. You have to be involved in that part to understand the time and the place and who you're playing and and and their place in the world at that time.

Right, So I didn't know that was part of her technique. That's really fascinating to me. Yeah, I've never studied, didn't study any of that, so and.

Right, So I didn't know that was part of her technique. That's really fascinating to me. Yeah, I've never studied, didn't study any of that, so and.

That was a big part of it. So we were already like we were already conscious, socially conscious as artists. She really believed that you had to be socially conscious as an as an artist, and so but there wasn't you know, you know, the funny thing about acting is like, oh, what what made you decide to pick that part? It is like, I didn't pick anything.

That was a big part of it. So we were already like we were already conscious, socially conscious as artists. She really believed that you had to be socially conscious as an as an artist, and so but there wasn't you know, you know, the funny thing about acting is like, oh, what what made you decide to pick that part? It is like, I didn't pick anything.

Well, that's true.

Well, that's true.

I mean, I'm lucky to even have a job, you know, right, I know, for so long, you know. And so you know, I found myself moving up state in the middle of this fracking fight, you know, and it's happening all around me. So I'm the longer like a guy on the sidelines. I'm like in the middle of it. And I'm trying to raise kids there and and you know, my neighbors like willing to poison my water, you know, and and and poison everyone's water around us, you know. So I'm right in the middle of that thing. And I and I get like a front seat view of what it's like to be in a sacrifice Zoe, and what it's like to be a frontline fighter, and what it's like to live in a world where there's two sets of laws. You know, there's the laws that are for all of us, and there's the laws that are for corporations or no laws that are for corporations, big wealthy corporations and people of power. And so that really changed me. And and that that started, you know, that moved on to the Solutions project. It was that it was my activism that that I was finding myself part of that made me say, hey, you know, why don't I do this with movies more? You know, I I you know, and I was at a point where I could, you know, I could start producing things and developing things and and that and that and and I you know, I'll tell you I did The Kids Are All Right, which was just a great film and a funny film by itself, but it ended up having a real impact on the gay marriage issue, which was which it landed right in the middle of right right, and it was so humanizing and and what you realized about gay people is their marriages were just as bad as everybody else's.

I mean, I'm lucky to even have a job, you know, right, I know, for so long, you know. And so you know, I found myself moving up state in the middle of this fracking fight, you know, and it's happening all around me. So I'm the longer like a guy on the sidelines. I'm like in the middle of it. And I'm trying to raise kids there and and you know, my neighbors like willing to poison my water, you know, and and and poison everyone's water around us, you know. So I'm right in the middle of that thing. And I and I get like a front seat view of what it's like to be in a sacrifice Zoe, and what it's like to be a frontline fighter, and what it's like to live in a world where there's two sets of laws. You know, there's the laws that are for all of us, and there's the laws that are for corporations or no laws that are for corporations, big wealthy corporations and people of power. And so that really changed me. And and that that started, you know, that moved on to the Solutions project. It was that it was my activism that that I was finding myself part of that made me say, hey, you know, why don't I do this with movies more? You know, I I you know, and I was at a point where I could, you know, I could start producing things and developing things and and that and that and and I you know, I'll tell you I did The Kids Are All Right, which was just a great film and a funny film by itself, but it ended up having a real impact on the gay marriage issue, which was which it landed right in the middle of right right, and it was so humanizing and and what you realized about gay people is their marriages were just as bad as everybody else's.

You know.

You know.

It's like, you know, they were they were going through the same stuff. You know, people who were married were straight, were laughing at the same issues, you know, and just humanize it. And I think it really did change the conversation culturally. I saw how important that became to that specific fight, and that's when I started to really feel like, you know, an article goes in a newspaper, goes this far, a documentary goes this far, but a movie that level of storytelling, if you could get past the polemics, if you can get if you could just tell the human story. It resonates in all kinds of people outside of their political beliefs, like you know dark waters that you know that things, that thing is seen by everybody, and and and we can all agree, like we don't want to be drinking poison water that some major corporation you know, knowingly did to us. We don't want our kids doing that. You know, we don't want that in our popcorn. We don't want that in our frying pans. You know, we don't want to die from some disease that someone else knew they were they were passing to us. No one wants to do that. So you know, when they hear that story, they see working class people being affected by it, and then all of a sudden, you have a change happened.

It's like, you know, they were they were going through the same stuff. You know, people who were married were straight, were laughing at the same issues, you know, and just humanize it. And I think it really did change the conversation culturally. I saw how important that became to that specific fight, and that's when I started to really feel like, you know, an article goes in a newspaper, goes this far, a documentary goes this far, but a movie that level of storytelling, if you could get past the polemics, if you can get if you could just tell the human story. It resonates in all kinds of people outside of their political beliefs, like you know dark waters that you know that things, that thing is seen by everybody, and and and we can all agree, like we don't want to be drinking poison water that some major corporation you know, knowingly did to us. We don't want our kids doing that. You know, we don't want that in our popcorn. We don't want that in our frying pans. You know, we don't want to die from some disease that someone else knew they were they were passing to us. No one wants to do that. So you know, when they hear that story, they see working class people being affected by it, and then all of a sudden, you have a change happened.

Mm hmm. It's great. Well, I think this is a good segue for us to bring out Gloria Walton, who works with you on the Solutions project. So please join us. Gloria. Hi, Kay, Thank Gloria, Hey you Mike, Well, thanks Gloria, thanks for joining us.

Mm hmm. It's great. Well, I think this is a good segue for us to bring out Gloria Walton, who works with you on the Solutions project. So please join us. Gloria. Hi, Kay, Thank Gloria, Hey you Mike, Well, thanks Gloria, thanks for joining us.

Thanks for having me.

Thanks for having me.

I'm thrilled. It's very nice to meet you. I mean, I guess my first question is how the two of you met and how this whole thing came together.

I'm thrilled. It's very nice to meet you. I mean, I guess my first question is how the two of you met and how this whole thing came together.

Gosh, how did the two of us meet? So in the work, Mark is hardcore, which I know, you know, given that your friends and so. And when I say hardcore, just meaning that he's always like in it with us in the community, you know, having just being really connected to his own personal experience and therefore being able to show up with like true authenticity and just one of the comrades. So, and that was like several years ago, because I've been doing this work for about sixteen years, and I started in South central Los Angeles.

Gosh, how did the two of us meet? So in the work, Mark is hardcore, which I know, you know, given that your friends and so. And when I say hardcore, just meaning that he's always like in it with us in the community, you know, having just being really connected to his own personal experience and therefore being able to show up with like true authenticity and just one of the comrades. So, and that was like several years ago, because I've been doing this work for about sixteen years, and I started in South central Los Angeles.

And what were you doing in south What was it you were doing in South Central? Just just kill people in Yeah.

And what were you doing in south What was it you were doing in South Central? Just just kill people in Yeah.

So I actually used to be a community organizer, and I still identify as an organizer. So I'm not necessarily I mean, sometimes I'm organizing people, but not in the ways that I did when I was at this organization called SCOPE, and I started as an intern there. It stands for Strategic Concepts in Organizing and Policy Education, and so essentially we were organizing the community's most impacted, and in South Central that was black and brown communities. And if you're not familiar, which I know you know we are familiar, but like South Central is a community that is surrounded by freeways from the north, south, east, and west, so it's literally in the center and therefore diesel trucks are kind of going through all the time going to the ports. And it's a highly concretized community, so minimal green space, minimal trees, and it has high rates of poverty and like low wage sector work. So that kind of gives you an idea. And so when we're talking about most impacted communities, these are communities that are unfortunately living adjacent to freeways, living adjacent to oil drilling and fracking, and so often the entrepe point and to climate was really like around public health, because you know, it wasn't a co incidents that South Central, you know, when you're looking at like Hounty averages, it was one of the sickest communities in LA and really across the state, and high mortality rates, high infant mortality rates, high rates of asthma, cancer, things like that.

So I actually used to be a community organizer, and I still identify as an organizer. So I'm not necessarily I mean, sometimes I'm organizing people, but not in the ways that I did when I was at this organization called SCOPE, and I started as an intern there. It stands for Strategic Concepts in Organizing and Policy Education, and so essentially we were organizing the community's most impacted, and in South Central that was black and brown communities. And if you're not familiar, which I know you know we are familiar, but like South Central is a community that is surrounded by freeways from the north, south, east, and west, so it's literally in the center and therefore diesel trucks are kind of going through all the time going to the ports. And it's a highly concretized community, so minimal green space, minimal trees, and it has high rates of poverty and like low wage sector work. So that kind of gives you an idea. And so when we're talking about most impacted communities, these are communities that are unfortunately living adjacent to freeways, living adjacent to oil drilling and fracking, and so often the entrepe point and to climate was really like around public health, because you know, it wasn't a co incidents that South Central, you know, when you're looking at like Hounty averages, it was one of the sickest communities in LA and really across the state, and high mortality rates, high infant mortality rates, high rates of asthma, cancer, things like that.

Yeah, it's interesting I think when talking about climate, you know, trying to talk about it for so many years. I think for so many years it was such a big concept that it was hard for people to get their heads around even to this day, of any kind of like personal impact. I mean, when you think about it, it's you know, force masure is act of God and like and a lot of times there's things that are explained, but climate wise, they say it's a force masure. And when something I it sounds like what you're doing is bringing it home to the community that if your own health or the health of your children is being specifically affected, making that connection between climate change and something that's really as personal and as easy to grasp onto is that is is a really important thing to do.

Yeah, it's interesting I think when talking about climate, you know, trying to talk about it for so many years. I think for so many years it was such a big concept that it was hard for people to get their heads around even to this day, of any kind of like personal impact. I mean, when you think about it, it's you know, force masure is act of God and like and a lot of times there's things that are explained, but climate wise, they say it's a force masure. And when something I it sounds like what you're doing is bringing it home to the community that if your own health or the health of your children is being specifically affected, making that connection between climate change and something that's really as personal and as easy to grasp onto is that is is a really important thing to do.

Yeah, And you know, one of the things that like the first lessons that I learned in community organizing was really talking about power and agency. So this idea of all of us having power to change things and the reality that the conditions that the communities, you know, people who live in communities like South Los Angeles are living in are not happenstance or coincidence, but it's actually the result of decisions that have been made by people and decision makers to create the conditions that we're living in and so in the movement, we often say that the redline communities of yesterday are the environmental justice communities of today.

Yeah, And you know, one of the things that like the first lessons that I learned in community organizing was really talking about power and agency. So this idea of all of us having power to change things and the reality that the conditions that the communities, you know, people who live in communities like South Los Angeles are living in are not happenstance or coincidence, but it's actually the result of decisions that have been made by people and decision makers to create the conditions that we're living in and so in the movement, we often say that the redline communities of yesterday are the environmental justice communities of today.

For that reason.

For that reason.

Yeah, because it's not just some random act of God, right, Like, you know, people decided who was going to live adjacent to freeways, who was going to live you know, what children were going to play next to fracking and oil drilling. Who was going to live in a community where all the diesel trusts run through it?

Yeah, because it's not just some random act of God, right, Like, you know, people decided who was going to live adjacent to freeways, who was going to live you know, what children were going to play next to fracking and oil drilling. Who was going to live in a community where all the diesel trusts run through it?

Right? If I could get just personal for one one second with Gloria, I mean, you know, doing the kind of work that you do. I'll speak for myself. You know, when I decided to do the kind of work that I do, I did it because I wanted to be rich and famous and get girls. But somebody who who devotes and spends their life on something as you know, as as selfless as community organizing or you know, fighting you know, for against climate change, et cetera, it's such a it's it. I'm just always impressed with that, And I wonder if you can shed any light on what it was for you, uh, you know, parents, or one experience or or uh you know whatever.

Right? If I could get just personal for one one second with Gloria, I mean, you know, doing the kind of work that you do. I'll speak for myself. You know, when I decided to do the kind of work that I do, I did it because I wanted to be rich and famous and get girls. But somebody who who devotes and spends their life on something as you know, as as selfless as community organizing or you know, fighting you know, for against climate change, et cetera, it's such a it's it. I'm just always impressed with that, And I wonder if you can shed any light on what it was for you, uh, you know, parents, or one experience or or uh you know whatever.

Yeah, I'm appreciating that question. And I guess for me, it definitely started in childhood. You know. It's like I come from a most impacted community. My family is still, you know, in most impacted communities in Jackson, Mississippi, you know, is where my family is, and they're you know, dealing with the water crisis, amongst many other things.

Yeah, I'm appreciating that question. And I guess for me, it definitely started in childhood. You know. It's like I come from a most impacted community. My family is still, you know, in most impacted communities in Jackson, Mississippi, you know, is where my family is, and they're you know, dealing with the water crisis, amongst many other things.

Right now, right down.

Right now, right down.

And I grew up you know around like my uncles were day labors, and therefore they had infrequent work and inconsistent work, and often stayed with my mom. My mom was like the house that everyone could come to and eat and sleep and you know, clean their bodies. You know, she was that person, which was a beautiful thing to grow up around and a little traumatic in some ways too, But at the end of the day, it was just really showing me about and demonstrating the importance of showing up for the people that you care about. Generosity exactly, and compassion, right and love and so that's one one thing. So the fact that I come from these communities, it is personal and it's a deeply personal issue for me. And then there's like the beauty.

And I grew up you know around like my uncles were day labors, and therefore they had infrequent work and inconsistent work, and often stayed with my mom. My mom was like the house that everyone could come to and eat and sleep and you know, clean their bodies. You know, she was that person, which was a beautiful thing to grow up around and a little traumatic in some ways too, But at the end of the day, it was just really showing me about and demonstrating the importance of showing up for the people that you care about. Generosity exactly, and compassion, right and love and so that's one one thing. So the fact that I come from these communities, it is personal and it's a deeply personal issue for me. And then there's like the beauty.

Of it too.

Of it too.

So you know, I shared like a lot of the crisis in South LA, but you know, the grassroots leaders there are very much the reason why I stayed in this work is really hearing their values, hearing their vision about the kind of community that they want to live in, you know, where people have like access to clean water and clean air and green space and good jobs and a connection to their power. And that's also something that I saw with my grandmother. She actually raised me the first four years of my life. And my grandmother was a farmer. And you know, there's like sayings and adages that I grew up hearing which we all know, you know, where my grandmother would be like, you know, make sure if someone lent me something, make sure you give it back better than you found it. You know, if I'm playing somewhere, make sure you clean it up and leave it better than you found it. And these are like adages and sayings that you know, you don't think much about when you hear them. You know, you may even get a little irritated hearing it. But these are the things that are It's like simple things like that that will help us do better as a society. And it's like a reflection again, like I just have to go back to values, you know, she would say that you need to think about the consequences of your actions. And again, all of this is about climate and the climate crisis and what we can be doing better. You know, Indigenous communities up and talk about thinking seven generations ahead, which essentially is what that's saying is about, like, think about the consequences of your actions. How is this going to impact you, your family, your community. You know, she would say, you're going to reap what you sew, so plant seeds that you actually want to harvest, right, and that everything comes from the natural world. Like as a farmer, that was really important to her and she instilled that in me. And you know, she was like from your food to your medicine to this home. You know, if you take care of the land, the land will take care of you. And so these were like basic things, you know, from the experience of poverty to the experience of people connecting to their individual power, values and vision is really what helps to sustain and drive me in this work.