Hi. I am Kate Hudson and my name is Oliver Hudson. We wanted to do something that highlighted our relationship and what it's like to be siblings. We are a sibling. Revalry No, no, sibling. You don't do that with your mouth revely. That's good. Yeah, it was so funny. We were we were just riffing a little bit before, and uh, I was like, you know, doesn't even he's been a heart throb like all of his life and and and he's all that has just been put on him, you know. And I was like, God, doesn't he sick of it? Doesn't he doesn't he It's like, just Jesus, I am more than And then boom, he pops on. Rob Low this is who we're talking about. And Chad, who I've known for a minute. We played hockey together. Really great guys, just really great human beings. Anyway, so he comes on. I'm like, Okay, here's what we were talking about. He loves being a heart throb. He's like, what are you crazy? Who doesn't want to be a heart throb into their forties and fifties? I mean, you know, and he still is the guy is just still crazy, sexy, It's insane. I've actually been communicating with his son because he's a massive fisherman. He actually owns a thirty one foot Bertram thirty one Bertram that I am obsessed with. I almost bought one of these boats. And I'm a crazy fisherman, as you know, and he is just he goes well beyond me. The guy is obsessed. So we've been communicating and I think we're going to fish anyway. These boys were great, so much fun talking to them. Their childhood is so easy, interesting and nuts and you know, but along but through it all, you know, just the love that that these boys have for each other is that's pretty awesome. And Chad, uh, Chad's the ship. I really love him. You know. We ask I always ask, you know, our guests, especially when you have, you know, a big, massive celebrity, and then you know their their sibling is successful but maybe not as successful, similar to my situation, our situation, and and I'm always saying, do you feel competitive? Are you jealous? Is there envy? And every sibling is like no, you know no, And I'm always like, well, come on, there's got to be something there. Chad Low listen to his answer, that's my boy. Keeps it real anyway. Enjoy, Enjoy, enjoy. Two handsome men, Chad and Rob loo. Oh, look at Rob low God, look at I. Look he had to get you, had to get the light. He had to get you to get the light. I get the look. He's so hands Okay, so he's definitely more of a heart throat. Okay, we were we were talking about this. I was like, aren't you sick of that? Aren't you so sick of this ship? Aren't you so sick of that? I am? You know, it's really all people talking about my looks. It comes me out, So I mean, I'm sick of it. For you, I'm like Jesus. And then and then Kate's I was like, no, who gets sick of being a heart throb? He nobody? Nobody? You kidding me? Like he's lying, he's lying. My favorite is I took There was a whole period of my career where I was like, I'm not taking my shirt off. There's something justified. And I got to forty and I'm like, I'm fucking taking my shirt off, and I was like us losing. Yeah, it's true. That's the thing. You kind of like you kind of like lean in. At some point, you just got to lean in. I know, since we're talking about sibling rivalry, which I think is apropos. I grew up thinking I was quasi moto, you know, like I mean you literally you get this complex like when every girl in your high school is saying is telling you how good looking your brother is. It doesn't does a number, I know, but it's different for real though, Like is that something that would actually affect you where you're like ship, that's that hurts? Or are you just making jokes? Oh now we're getting deep. We're going to even deeper. This is the fun you brought it up. I mean it all, it all is. It's all part of the ingredient. It's all part of your ingredients, your experience. But I mean, you know there was I think, I you know, I felt like maybe somebody would let me take my shirt off. I might be able to compete. That's just give me the chance. Man. It's like, you got three young daughters at home. I know what that that food is Like, I don't, I don't, I'm not. I'm not looking over my shoulder anytime soon. It's like when I was, like when I had young kids in the house. It was like, oh boy, I mean peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, and I'm having milkshakes with the rest of them, and then then maybe then maybe you can kind of get it together again. Well that that was always hard. I mean, kay, how do you do? I mean you've always you know, through all your kids, you're always like, never went to classic mom land. You always like, look at keeping it together up. I like, yeah, well, you know, I I like being feeling strong, you know, I like I like feeling strong and sexy. Rob, It's sort of my right and if you want to know about me, I'm just genetically blessed. Yeah, exactly. Okay, Rob and Chad, let's get into it, because I know our time is time is of the essence. So let's we're going to start from the beginning. So, Rob, you wrote a book a bit back that was very like candid about your guys childhood. But for those who don't know and those who are just meeting the two of you as siblings today on our podcast, let's just start right from the beginning. Who's the oldest. That's me, I'm four years older. And where were you born? Charlottesville? Virginia. My dad was in his last year of law school at University of Virginia, and I was born at the university hospital. So now question, can you tell who's who just by our voices? That's oftentimes people mistake us for our voices. Our father when I call him, I always feel the need to let him know. I say, hey, Dad, exact how are you? And I go it's Dad. So he knew because our voices are similar. So Rob is older by four years. I know, it's hard to believe. And I am younger. That makes me younger for good. I'm glad you cleared that up. Okay, so Chad comes in, and I know this from my research, but uh, it was a very interesting birthing process, right you couldn't you were born and your father and you couldn't go in and see Chad. Yeah. Correct. Well the great story is that my dad when he when he saw Chad fainted and knocked himself out. That this is the theme of our mind was. It was like he was like I thought I had beautiful children, and that is not Chadly, that is not I can't let the kid it's not true. But and yes, we weren't allowed to see, I wasn't allowed to see little chadly until uh, I don't know what was going on with those hospitals. Well in those days, people weren't allowed in. I mean, yeah, they took the baby and they would put the why why did he pass out? And that that is the question, that is right. That is one of the questions that Chad and I have often. Well because listen, they my parents split up not long after that. I think that was probably okay. I think he was like, oh boy, I got some real issues now, I'm sure sure of it. So you guys, you guys still to this day don't know why your father passed out at Chad's birth. Well, I asked him and he's like, he's a good It's so overwhelming. I didn't know. I mean, they just presented me with that little baby, and well, I guess I just went down. But let's be honest, we all know. We don't need to even know, Like officially, it's pretty clear if you read the tea leaves that I mean, he was twenty eight when I was born. So Robbie was twenty four when you were born. I mean a different time. I can't imagine having two children at twenty eight. What I would I would have passed out too. I think I was twenty three with Right, you're a super early You're strong and sexy. Right, okay, so so so Rob. You say you don't remember when Chad was born, really though, I remember my mom telling me that she was pregnant. I remember that. I remember that really well, and what she was going to said, we're going to call it's a when you call him Chad. So I remember knowing that Chad's name before he was even around. And you didn't even You didn't like that name, though, did you. I didn't like the name. I'd never heard of that name. It sounded like a weird name to me, it was, And I was like Chad, like Chad, And all I could think of is you know your your just subconscious mind was all I could think of, was Chad chapstick. That's what I thought. They never noticed. See what I'm learning. I'm so glad that you invited us on your podcast, because I'm learning things about myself and my brother that I didn't know. Do you remember when he was brought home or do you only have sort of spit like specific memories of when he was a baby. I My earliest memory I was just thinking about this was we had one of those really gigantic white wicker bassinettes on wheels and it was huge. At least, well it probably wasn't. With me, it felt a huge and I used to push it around the living room like a toy with Chad in it. And that was that was that's my first memory. Oh, that's so sweet. I didn't know you did that for me. Thank you. And the rest is the rest is then and he continued to push me around our whole So you were born in Virginia, yep? And and then how long were you living there until you moved West coast? The minute my dad graduated he had a He graduated law school there and then went to practice law in Dayton, Ohio, where Chad was born and where we both lived until we were until I was twelve, and then we moved to la to Point Doom. But your dad at art your dad had already left by then, your parents were no longer together, that's right now. And how old are you both when that when they split? Uh, it was a year, so you must have been five. It's like us, So you don't do you you don't have memories probably of them together, do you. I do, very actually have quite a few of them actually, but they're but they're like you say, there, they're uh like literally scenes from a marriage. There are scenes that we have, not not the kind of memories you can remember a whole the totality of of anything. But yeah, I I I do for sure. And were they positive memories? No, I mean, just reading your research, like it would seemed like it was a pretty rough childhood. It it was, but that was I was so young that I didn't I didn't know the the uh. It was like I remember, you know, them having dinners and this and the Christmases. But but the the painful more, the more painful stuff was like you know, pre after the divorce, the sort of that sort of whole you know, being a five year old of going through a divorce type of stuff that or remember vividly. I don't think kids ever really get over, you know. It's so funny similar. It's really funny because we have a similar situation. Dad left when I was I was four and a half or so. And some of the memories that I have there they're not memories that exist just in the sort of normal life everyday life. It's either you know, the really good times or the really really bad times, and their flashes right, and there's like fifteen of them, No, I know all together. I really think about it. Did you guys have a similar experience with the with your parents during that time or is it a perspective? What do you think, Shadley, I mean, obviously age, Oh my god, as our brother Justin called so weird, he's jealous, he's not on a go you know, I think a lot of it. Obviously you have to look at through the lens of the age that you are when the things happen. So I don't have any memory of our parents being together, my mom and dad being together. I have no memory. In fact, it's an interesting thing I've often thought about. I don't I have our mother had passed away a while back, but I don't think I ever saw them touch each other and so but Rob and I do, and I'm interested to whether you guys have this experience. Rob and I will spend a great deal of time on the phone or when we're when we see each other talking about the past and talking about things that happened and crying, and like I'll have a vague memory about something that happened, and I will want Rob to corroborate or give me his take on it. And so we had the same experience. Let's say it was well. I hope our dad isn't listening to this, but you know one time we were driving to an amusement park and I think I was lipping off. I was probably six or seven, and he said, you know, if you keep that up, I'm going to pull over and let you out. And we were driving through cornfields and I said, and I kept going, and he did. He pulled over and let me out and drove off, and I'm literally in a cornfield going, oh my god, he's serious. So like I could call Rob and say, do you remember just really happened the way I remember it happening. Well, the good news is is if dad is listening. My mother did the same thing to Oliver because he was farting, except it was on a Malfi drive in the Pacific Palace, a little bit different, and Oliver kept farting in the car and finally Mom's like, if you do it again, I'm pulling over and you're walking home. And he did it, and Mom pulled over. I mean, and Allie was like, oh my god, Mom actually left me and Tom Hanks gave me a ride home. He actually did. He did not talk about a story. You never let the facts get in the way of a good story. But what about when did you come to that age where you were actually brothers and you could sort of be together and being each other's presence and actually love each other? You know, I always thought, I mean, look, Chad will tell you that we definitely had our moments where we would we would fight, and you know, he would His move is he would pull embarrassing pranks on me, and then my move was be to like like punch him in the face. That was like, right, we did. Our biggest fight was we were my mom was on one of her cross country trips, right, Chad, this is the diner at the Fatous Story, the famous the famous diner, and I think it was in Jack's outside of Jack the whole and Chad kicked me with these cowboy boots in the shin as hard as he could under the table, and so I just across the table punched him in the face. So these people were so horrified. They went to my mother's and that boy just out of nowhere punched the other one in the face. I was like, no, he kicked me in but like so we definitely did that kind of eating on each other that that people do. But but other than that, my at least my my my truth, as the kids say today, is that, uh is that we always got along, particularly in when I compare it to stories I hear of other families. We've talked about it before, but you know, all Kate wanted was love from me, and I couldn't give it to her because I was trying to figure out my own ship from home from a divorced family. So all she wanted to do was have me just accept her, and I could barely accept myself, you know. So that you know, it's that's really interesting because I we Rob and I both My truth, my experience is that from the get go, we were thick as thieves. You know, from the get go, we were like partners in crime. And I think a lot of that was born out of the situation too that we found ourselves in, which was, you know, Mom having us out here in California, and then as soon as the you know, summer broke and school was out, we were shipped back on a plane to Dayton, Ohio together. So you know, we were and we still are best friends, and you know, those of them brothers as they say in the final Yes, but but we you know, and along with that comes periods of time where there's a certain estrangement or there's something that's happened, and you know, that was an interesting experience too, and I would share this. I don't know if I'm jumping too far ahead, but the big revelation for me, and I don't know if this would be the same for you, Kate as being the young the younger sibling, but maybe it's different, maybe it's not an age thing. But one of the big revelations for me one day was we were going through a period where it was like might have been a little strained for whatever silly reason. And I had this thought. I thought, you know, when something good happens in my life, the first person I want to call is Rob and I want to share that news. Conversely, the first person I would call if something bad happened in my life would be Rob. But especially when I was thinking about good things that happened, and you know, if it was let's say you booked a pilot or you know whatever, something small, I'd want to call him and I want to share in that joy with him. And I realized, you know, I can't ask for that from him if I'm not willing to give that to him. And so that was a big, a big moment for me being the younger sibling, because as you said, at all or you know, when you're the older sibling, there's something in that birth order and that you know, and and and Rob proceeding and you know, being an actor and kind of following in those footsteps, I realized, like, you know, I have a power in this too, and my power in this is I need to be able to give that back to him. That's really interesting because I'm the oldest, but it's it's different and this is my own ship. This has nothing to do with Kate definitely his own shop. But when I have something good happen, I have a bit of an inferiority complex, meaning like it's not good enough, meaning yeah, I booked a pilot, but it's like, oh, well, have you seen almost famous or do you know how many brands that I represent? This is I'm saying this is my own mind. I'm not saying this is like twenty years ago. I know, but it's the best thing you've done. I know, but it was exactly I know. But listen, So that's that's where it is for me. I wish that I had more confidence in my own accomplishments, you know what I mean. So sure that is a nice revelation to have, and it seems freeing almost at least from my perspective. You know, it was very bring for us and for me, and I know that once once I got to that place, you know, I think, I mean, Rob can speak to that more than I could, But once I got to that place, I think it opened up a lot of spaith for for us to get even closer. You know what's interesting. I mean I try, I talk all the time, and and we we can literally talk for hours about anything and do to like like when I think, are both of our wives when they know that we're on the phone just like like okay, well I'm not gonna okay, that's that's an hour that they're going to go and do their thing on Yeah, for sure, that's not I don't think that that's actually typical. I know it's like yeah for guy, Yeah, I think it's more of a sister thing. Yeah that's so great. But yeah we we we can. We can gossip and talk and reminisce and future trip. I question, what were your parents like, like what what what was the energy that you were sort of raised dan? Meaning what did they do? I mean, your father was a lawyer, you know, were you were you immersed in the arts. Well, but here's the thing though, my our biological father, my our father was out of our daily lives before Chad can remember and when I was five. So now we're talking about the first step the two step fathers. So the first step father is still in our lives. He's a profoundly decent like principal, got me interested in politics, got me really it was a reader, Like a lot of the stuff that I look back on, I go, that's I think him, you know, reading books, political social events, reading the newspaper, all current events that I think his name is Bill that I think that was him. He so that and then they split up and then the next father was a union analyst. Oh yeah, no, WHOA. So it would be like I always I think we were the practice patients a lot. I mean I definitely felt like we were living with like high school principal slash you know, therapists like you know, the therapy we were in front of the We went in front of the therapy board a lot, do you think, But how did you take that as kids sort of growing up with that? I know that this is just life and it is what it is. But was there resentments at all towards mom? We want stability, or hey, it's who's the next one. I guess we'll just accept this. I just think kids are so resilient and they have nothing to compare anything to other than their own experience. And you know, you know, pound for pound, we were blessed that these guys, these men were. They treated us great. They did the best they could. You know, some were more flawed than others, but they were they were great. I mean they you know, they brought in a woman with two kids. Yeah, did the best they could as father's and you know, I have a ton of respect for that. And I didn't feel particularly displaced. Other than the geographical The geographicals were super hard, Like that was hard, moving uprooting from a friend group across the country. That was brutal, And it happened to me twice. That was not fun. Mom and dad divorced. Does is he in and out? Yeah, he's the weekends and you know, you know, ski trips, stuff like that. And then you moved to Los Angeles because and that was because of your father or no, your stepfather. Guess it was because that stepfather got a job working for the county running the like a division of the county's mental health department. When to see how long ago was La County had a mental health department and hospitals how about that? And then they just decided to get rid of it and then that was over. So yeah, so that's he That's why we ended up in southern California and then we ended up in Malibu because and this is a big theme, our mom was or thought she was, Chad and I have so many debates about this, a universal allergic. So she was, in theory allergic to anything. She could be allergic to perfume, plastic outgassing, carpets, paint, smog, foods, you name it. Anything could put her out for back into the bed for weeks. And interesting point, Doom had the best air quality in southern California. That's how we ended up there. Okay, well hold on, wait a minute. I mean, did she choose these allergies? I meaning, like, Okay, today I'm around paint, I don't feel like, hey, I got some paint stuff. I need to lie and there too, right, I mean, these are the great mysteries of life. I mean, here's my favorite, here's my favorite. So we would buy We didn't have a ton of money at all, I mean at all. And you know, we were the family that could go out and not order dessert like that was like our vibe. And so when we bought a new car, it was a big deal and it was used to it. We would buy, well, she went. When we did buy a new car, she would have to leave it outside with the windows open for almost four months before she could get into it. That's why I thought it was used. No, it wasn't used. It was because she would the outgassing of the new car smell. Right. Yeah, listen. She was also but ahead of her time, like she was like that paint has lead in it, right, you know. And the notion of food allergies, I'm I think there was some there there, but there was also something else there was definitely she was definitely ahead of her time. But where does this debate start because Chad, do you have a different idea of No. I think the debate is is just trying to see the light and figure out what that they're there is. And you know, I mean, I think we both recognize that she had other issues Kate, you know, as you mentioned, which will never know, but psychological issues, whether it was depression or you know, clinical depression, whatever it was. But there was also you know, a lot of the things she was talking about in the early seventies we've all now accepted as facts, which is the air we breathe can make us thick, the water we drink can make us thick. You know, that certain chemicals leap out of the furnitures. I mean, it's these things are So that's I think where Rob and I are like, yeah, but but why she wasn't she I wonder, you know, because obviously she's primary parent. That kind of negative cycle of thinking that things are bad for you create any anxiety and in either of you like, that's a Chad blow question. Wow, you must know what you speak to ask that question. Yeah, yeah, definitely, I definitely have it. Definitely. I think affected me more to look at the to look at the world, around you with with the with that kind of a lens. Yeah, and the thought that the area breathing makes you sick, or that the water you're drinking makes you sick. I was actually in an allergy hospital with her when I was I think six or seven. I went with her to a hospital that was foremost in the in the field of food allergies. And I was often had a had a stomach ache as a child, always always had a stomach ache. I mean, number one sign of anxiety. Anxiety, and so it was something's wrong. Let's go to the hospital in Chicago. It's all gets so crazy. This is where Rob and I just go down the rabbit hole and start flapping ourselves, you know, to death. Here. But and some it's just so profound and so bizarre. But yeah, I went to an allergy hospital with her called hen Rot in the hospital, I'll never forget it. And I spent a summer with her there and I started by fasting for a week on nothing but water and taking diuretics and to cleanse my system to then test me for food allergies. And I'm thicky. Wow. So and then I remember we came home and I was only allowed to eat like a bowl of rice or blueberries. And the meat I could eat, never wrap what the meat was that I was only allowed to eat caribou meat. Not in Dayton, Ohio reme. It reeked like a dead bigfoot. Lashes, lash, lashes, lashes, ladies, gentlemen, I love a dramatic lash. You know I in makeup. You know what I do hair makeup. A lot of times I have incredible people putting lashes on my eyes. 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So it's a great place to learn and to start to understand the language. Coinbase is a great it's a great place to start. So yeah, I signed up super symbol boom. Within minutes, I'm trading, I'm learning, I'm figuring it out. They offer portfolio management and protection. There's a mobile app so you can you can trade securely and monitor your crypto in one place. It's really it's really amazing. It's an amazing place to go not only buy and sell, but to learn about it. For a limited time, new users can get ten dollars in free bitcoin when you sign up today at coinbase dot com slash sibling. Sign up at coinbase dot com slash sibling for ten dollars in free bitcoin. This offer is for a limited time only, so be sure to sign up today. That's coinbase dot com slash sibling. I guess what's interesting about this is that you can look at it from again to different perspectives. One of Wow, that sounds pretty crazy. The other is that the things that you're talking about scientifically are clearly things that people do to heal them and heal their gut and to balance their system out you might have been pretty young to be doing that, but at the same time, it sounds like like she really was very much ahead of her procatic. Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's interesting. I mean, I just I just find that interesting informed. Did that inform how you think and how you feel about your life? You know what I mean? You did you take your parents? And how much did you rail against your parents? And how much did you take? You know? For me Chad speaking here, I you know, I had to work through a lot of that stuff early on, and I remember, you know, and high school years, especially as I started to get some independence, and then you know, I got a car and then moved out of the house. I kind of was like, I'm not going to get sick by the world around me, and I can eat whatever the hell I want to eat, and I can drink and do drugs and I can just go completely utterly insane. Right, It's Malibu in the eighties. It's going to get weird. It got weird. Yeah. I went to SAMO. Did you guys both Did you guys both go to Samo? Yeah? I went to SAMO And what was the Junior High which is now Malibu High. Yeah, Junior High was on Morning View there. Oh wow, you guys are real like Malibu kids, old school. Oh yeah, and I'm obsessed like the great story that I need to write, will do, want to do, have tried to do. I think any really creative person has, hopefully one of them in mine is the almost famous meets Boogie Knight's version meets Licorice Pizza Mala of Malibu from nineteen seventy six to nineteen eighty six, and also when we moved there, you know, as you guys know, there was you know, there were there were two kind of glasses, if you will, of Malibu. There was kind of a working class, which with a lot of the old families that had been on Point Doom that really didn't want any part of city living the move there. And then there were movie stars and there was you know, there were people There was your your Mama, and there was you know, Johnny Carson, and there was Bob Dylan and machines and people who didn't want to be in the city, didn't want to be in Hollywood but wanted to escape to a place that also it sounds strange because it's so beautiful and so renowned, but there was a certain normalcy about living there. Yeah, you didn't have like a hot people was like, what was it like growing up in Hollywood. I'm like, God, I don't have any clue. It was like growing up in Hollywood. We grew up on in Dayton, Ohio in the summers and Point Doom, you know which to me, I was running around with kids who you know, few of them are dead, you know a couple most of them liveing at Gura now, you know, like it was like we had friends whose dad worked at Sears, and you know, it was just a different My mom dropped me off on the Malay. I'm a big fisherman. It's like a real passion am I. At eight years old, I went and fished the Aquarius all day. The Aquarius was a remember that pier, the Aquarius. The Aquarus is in Santa Barbara, in Santa Barbara Harbor now and I see it, and I remember how about when you used to be able to take fishing boats off of Paradise Cove. Yeah, when first started Paradise Cove and then and then the storm took out the pier. I yes, that's right, So this is all my area. But I also loved when the market had a hitching post for horses. People grow to the market from from from uh yeah, from Cross Creek. Yeah. My first job was at the pharmacy, remember that I was. I was a It was a different such a different time than it is now Malibu. It really was. I mean the kids in Malibu really got heavy into drugs, a lot of them. Yeah, and uh, I think everyone who's lived in LA have has had friends in Malibu. Have They've had friends who have actually died, you know in my Okay, So the junior high I went to, which was now the high school, had seven hundred fifteen students. I remember that because I was the parliamentarian in the student council. And in the three years that I was there, eight kids died. Wow. Really that's crazy. Now if that happened today, oh my god. Yeah, eight kids die at the same school in a three year period, it would be international news. Nobody gave one fuck yeah to go. That's a different it's just such a different time. How were you guys at school together as brothers? Like were you were you close you know? Or was it sort of like four difference? Right? Because the four year difference was right on that cusp. So the only time we were ever together was in elementary school. After that we were just enough to the four year difference. We were never in the same school. So did the acting and the sort of love of storytellings start to actually come from being in Los Angeles? No, I was acting in Ohio. I was doing children's theater in summer Stock and all that. When when I was eight in Dayton, and you'd have thought that coming to California would be great, because it's all I wanted to do. But I was a broken to leave Dayton and my friends and it only kind of begrudgingly was like, yeah, I guess California was. I mean, I love that like our We moved to the one of the lesser streets on the Point Wandermere. Oh you are a wander Mare? Yeah, and uh and I with no view. But when they told me that our our broken down corral was built from wood from the remnants of the beach set of Planet of the Apes, I was like, Okay, that's this is a cool place. So you were always into acting? Yeah, where did that come from? I saw a play when I was a kid. It was the play Oliver with all the little kids in it. The little beggar kids, and I was like I wanted It was like an AHA moment, like a real I was like, I want to do that. There was a sign up sheet in the lobby for a children's workshop. My parents signed me up and literally, I, I can tell you, it's all I ever wanted to do. I was like laser lazy. I used to take the bus from Point Doom to Santa Monica, get a transfer, take a bus to Beverly Hills, get a transfer, take a bus to Hollywood and Vine, go in for an audition and repeat it. Do my homework on the bus, come home, eat and go to bed. Wow, it's what I did. Wow? When did you start auditioning the minute I got there? So twelve years old? Like yeah, yeah, And Chad, do you sort of look at Rob and as the younger sibling see sort of your entry point into the arts through your brothers, sort of motivated by your brother's love for the arts, you know? I think I was certainly exposed to it. I remember back in Dayton, he was doing Oklahoma and I signed up to play. I don't know what it was in Oklahoma, and I made it through one rehearsal and I was like this is not I'm not doing this. But I did develop a fascination with traveling salesman, and so I went around telling everybody mistakenly that when I grew up, I was going to be a street walker because I somehow in my six year old brain got the two confused. That's amazing, but that's what that was. My takeaway from from Oklahoma was I didn't I wasn't interest. I just didn't have that interest that he did. And Rob, like as Rob said he was, he had that laser focus and that sense of purpose that that acting. I mean, I remember it was he had movie pictures up on his wall and it was all about acting and movies and how movies are made. And I didn't have any any interest in that. I can I ask Rob a question. I don't mean to hijack this, we're asking the questions here, but you think, Rob, that when when you started acting, was there any part because I wonder about this, like, was there any part of you that thought that getting being seen on stage? Because I'm so fascinated by what draw somebody to want to be in front of others? Was there something about needing love from dad or wanting to feeling that you weren't being seen or being heard. Do you think that played into that at all? I well, the first time I was ever on stage ever, I remember it like it vividly, and when the audience laughed and and and I I was too young to even it wasn't like I had that power, but it felt powerful and and and and like I had I was in control of this collective experience. I could never have processed it that way because I was so young, But looking back on it, I remember the feelings and I think that's what it was. And I and I think it's it's about being you know, being being seen. How having control? For sure on stage it's and to this day it's why I prefer above all else being on stage. Is that of you walking out there with nothing. When I do my one man show and it's two thousand people and you have to deliver and you're going to transport them. You've taken them in your hand and you you are guiding them them and you are the steward. And that's and that's the same way why I love directing. When I get to do it right, that's so interesting. And not that you were asking me this Chad, But I'm gonna I want to add to this very Howard Stern question by the way, very Stern. Yeah, because you know because for me, like you're you're talking about like actually like grabbing the audience like that interaction, right, And for me, I think my first feeling of being on a stage had nothing to do with an audience and everything to do with the light. Wow. Like for me, it was like I couldn't see anybody. Wow. All I saw was like this these lights on Alice in Wonderland, right. I mean I was in that performance as well. This is you were all about audience interactions about I was gone. I had I was like, you know, I was transported to another world. You played Little Alice. When she came out everything was and it was so big and her You've never we've never seen any bigger acting in your life. It was it was like, oh god, it was amazing. It was in Colorado at the Wheeler Opera House in Aspen, and it was this really beautiful place. Have you've ever been? It's amazing space. It's insane. Yeah. I played tweedled d in that and I was in fourth grade. I was tweetl d okay We've had two performances, brought the house the two performances, and something went wrong in every in both performance into the umbrella wouldn't open. And my guy goes tweetled dumb goes up on a line like it never worked out, but it worked out through it so so so perfect. So like yes, in our careers and everything. So what was your both of your first jobs, what was your first Well, I can say that, you know. It's it's funny back to answer the question about like when I knew or if I wanted to be an actor, I was not going to be an actor, and I was I and I was kind of defiant in a way, like I'm not going to follow in anybody's footsteps. You know, I'm not going to do that. That's his thing, you know, Like I got my thing. It's funny. I see with my kids now, they're all like trying to find what their thing is that makes them unique and makes them special. And you know, as a parent, you're like you are unique, you are special, and just you know, but I was not going to be an actor and then I, you know, remember visiting I think it was when I took the SAPs and like got whatever you get for writing your name. That was my score. And I went, well, I'm not going down the road of academy, that's for sure. And I was like, thing might be interesting. And I remember visiting Rob. I don't even Rob doesn't even know this, probably, but visiting the set of Hotel New Hampshire and watching you do a scene with what was the young young actress's name, I can't remember, Jennifer Dundas Dundas yep. And I watched her and she had a candle in her hands. She remember this still, Davidly. And I had this access to the making of and the process of acting, and I watched it and I watched what she was doing, what what Rob was doing, and I thought, I want to try that. I think I could do this, and this looked really interesting, and I think I caught a glimpse of what you're talking about, of the power that you feel, you know, and you can feel that power. I feel that power a lot like you do, Kate, and that I get kind of so nervous and get so then when it I'm in it, it's happening. And then when I'm done, the nurse come flooding back and I really don't have any memory of what I just did, right, And but I I remember having having a very instrumental talk with Martin Sheen when Charlie and I were very dear friends, and Martin for some reason was driving me out to meet Cary at a David Bowie concert and it was a Lets It was a Lets dance tour at Anaheim Stadium, and Martin for some reason needed to drive me from Point Doom to Anaheim Stadium. So, you know, for four hours he talked my ear off about the public theater and about Joe pap and he's, you know, also from Dayton, Ohile. And he said to me, you know, I think you are an actor and I and I was like that, you know, blew my mind, he said, And I said, well, what do you mean? He said, it's the way you look at things. I see you observing when you were at Charley and I see you in the kind of standing off in the background, watched me everything. And that's what a great actor does that they they observe life, they study life. And I was in hook if that what acting was. So from that point on, I think I realized, like, you know, I can do this. I can do this my own way, if you will. And it's not until you know my later years that I just you know, because there's the whole thing about nepotism and people. You know, people have a different point of view about that. But I mean I often am so grateful that Rob had whatever that was inside of him that exposed me. Who's something that's made me, you know, weep and cry and miserable, but it's given me a beautiful life. So yeah, I mean Martin Sheen, I mean that's not a bad like uh pep talk no, but but it was Rob. I mean Rob was the one. I mean Rob, Rob was the pioneer for us and our family. Yeah, I give full credit the case it's going to be like envy, Yeah, right, Ever, and you know, and is there ever? Was there ever? Envy? I mean I asked this all the time, like was there was there the envious part of you? Was there? Like? Oh my brother is you know, a star and he's all this and he's all that, and I'm I love it, I love it, but I'm like, God damn it, Like what about me? And was there ever? Jesus every day? Yeah, finally someone who tells the fucking truth. Finally, Jesus, we've only done a hundred billionaires. Every time we do this and everyone's like, no, absolutely not, And I'm like talking about it. It's natural out there, it's not natural for It's different for everybody. I love it. But you have someone you can text anytime. Now, Oliver, let's we can text Chad. But here's the But here's the thing. I'm but along that envy, the other side of that coin or this, on the same path of that mvy is an incredible pride, yes, and and gratitude and and just like if Rob gets I'm getting like chills. If something good happens with Rob, I hear absolutely one in that uh in that and in the joy that that brings. There's not a part of me that wants his life. I don't want to be you, Rob, I love you to pieces. I'm so happy with my life. I'm so happy where I am. But I can also keep space for when you know something happens. I'm like, yeah, God, I would love that too. I don't I don't want I don't want you not to have it. But what about me? Like I would like that too? Yeah? Yeah, I have. I sometimes exist in a Jack L and hide situation where we're going to go to the premiere. I'm like, cameras are flashing. It's all better all the time, isn't it. And then they get in the theater and I'm like, I'm s so fucking proud of for like crying. I'm like, she's incredible. And then I leave the theater and it's like at the after party, like she is, everyone's talking to her. There's room for this, there's room for all of these emotions. I say, there's room for all of its true, It's true, it's right, It's really true. What was your first job? Rob Yeah, what was it? Charlie? What was your first job? Chadley? Oh my, Chadley's I'll go Chadley's just my first job was. I got two jobs in one day. It hasn't happened since. But I auditioned. I went and auditioned. I was working at the Point Doom Pharmacy as a stock boy because I was at that point needed a little my own money. And I got a two jobs. I got home. I never forgot my our mother said you, let's call your agent together, and I called and I got a thing called Robert Kennedy and His Times, RFK and His Times. I played a young Bobby Kennedy, which I was caught out of, but it was Brad Davis a mini series about the Kennedys. And then I got another one called Flight ninety Disaster on the Potomac, which with Barry Corbyn, I played the Sun. It was about the Air of Florida crash. I remember the river and the ice rescue that happened, and those were the two. I got both those jobs in the same Again, I keep I thought that's the way it was always going to be. Yeah, You're like, this is I multiple offers every day and then Rober, I mean Outsiders was was this big gig, right? But what was your first on screen gig? Well? Well, well, the first time I ever got paid for for acting, yeah was. I was still in Dayton and there was a a chain of carpet stores named Don Mendon Hall's Carpet Talk. Don't ask me what that name is or meant, but I did a radio commercial for them, and all I can remember is I couldn't read yet, so the announcer would say it and I would repeat it, and they cut the announcer out of it, and I was paid ten dollars and the New Partridge Family album. Wow, oh, solid, solid compensation. My first job was actually singing in the chorus of Home Alone and Wow, when the kids are all singing the Christmas songs, it's like I'm in that chorus. And I still to this day get residuals. I just got the other day a ten dollars residual from the Home Alone. Yeah for that, Yeah, well they were much that's more generous then, I guess. Wow, no kidding, Oliver, what was your first gig? Oh, god, it's it's probably with mom. It was. It was a movie called Out of Towners. The thing is, I didn't want to know that I played my mother's son. There's obviously no nepotism involved. I just want to be clear about that. But no, my mother's son was Steve Martin. It was great, it was fine. I was twenty years old. I didn't want to be an actor. That's not what I wanted to do. I owned to direct and write movies when when she was in when she was acting, I had a camera from the sixth grade, fifth grade on making movies every single weekend. That's what I wanted to do. Acting. It came about because I went to college. I went to Boulder for like two years. Needed money. I needed money. My whole family's doing it. I'll give it a try. I kind of liked it at first, but I was hungover drinking and partying and going to auditions, not taking it seriously in any way. And finally I had to get my shit together and then I did you know, but that was my first gig at twenty years old. Prior to that, I had done one play in fourth grade. That is it. Oh, I love this so much. I want this is you know, one of those ads that I want people to really hear because I'm passionate about this higher Dose. I absolutely love this company. They make all kinds of things. They make these amazing blankets that have infrared healing heat, and they have red light rejuvenating ray therapy. And then they're best selling portable infreds on a blanket, which I am not kidding. I really do want to travel with everywhere. Well, okay, they've got this their best selling it's their best selling item. 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Yeah so just because I mean, and it's totally obviously if you're open to talking about this, but I think it's really helpful for people who you know, struggle to just you know, here hear sort of you know people's stories. When when did you When did that part of your life when you started to like party actually start to happen? And then when did when in that moment did it become like this is now a problem when you recognize the problem? As you alluded to, we grew up in a really weird time, in a really weird place. I can remember going to an eighth grade girls party and the big, the big gift that everybody was giving each other were vials of coke. And so that's the world I grew up in in Malibu, and and and I remember that coke was also what it meant you were successful, Like that's what I mean, we could we all know the actors. I don't need to name the names, but I know you can think of them. And it was like, you know, they were doing blow all the time, and like, that's what I'm being a movie stars and that's what it meant to be, you know, you know, the big house in Mulholland and the fucking blow and that's what movie stars did and rock stars and so that I grew up with that message and so when I can all. The other thing that I think is significant is I remember the very first time I ever tasted alcohol. I remember it because my father, he was still at home. This is a whole memory, gave me a drink of his beer and I chugged it like not's like, oh what is this, I don't know what. I've got to be five and I was like and immediately threw up, and I'm like, that's an alcohol. That is one alcohol. I was born a born alcohol and and boy did I find the right career to help that. And you know, I think, you know, then I got you know, successful and famous and money and drinking and drugs and and it was and it was great. Well, it lasted great, well lasted Like I look back on it with very few, if any regrets. I don't think I romanticize it, but but I'm pretty clear eyed about how much, excuse me, fucking fun it was until it wasn't right, and and and then knowing again, I had a moment of clarity like I have when I saw the kids on stage, where I was like, if I don't change my life, I'm never going to have what I want in my life ever. And I knew it, just knew it in my DNA. But that wasn't enough to stop me. And so I flirted for like a year and a half maybe of like I'm gonna stop drinking. Maybe I should stop drinking. I'm going to go a month without drinking. I'm gonna sit in it, and it never really held. And then there was a night when my mother called me and told me that my grandfather had had a heart attack. He was very very close to him, and she was leaving a message on the answering machine and I couldn't pick it up because I've been up all night partying and I didn't I couldn't talk to her. So I thought, I know what I'm going to do. I'm going to not answer this now. I'm going to drink this bottle of Quervo Gold that I kept by my bedside table because I missed all this George Clooney tequila stuff, Like where was that when I don't know in my day, it was like Quervo Gold was the top of the heat. Oh yeah, that was it. That was it. You know, it's a I'm a good listener of Steely Dan, Quervo Gold and the Fine Columbia. They made it to that a wonderful thing, as they say. So I was like, all right, I'm gonna drink chuggle ug this Quervo so I can go to sleep, so I can wake up to deal with this phone call. And that felt like logic to me, and I had this moment of dude, you're so fucked up, and that was it. I the next day. I have been carrying the business card of a drug and alcohol counselor in my wallet for a year and a half. I couldn't keep a pair of sunglasses for a year and a half, but I kept this, and I woke up the next day, pulled out the card. Called her name's Betty Wyman. She put me on a plane to Sierra Tucson and that was that I'll be thirty one years ago and wow? That was that? Was it? Where you go amazing? Amazing? And Chad, did you have a similar story somewhat in that I'm an alcoholic in an addict? And uh yeah, I mean I I definitely. You know. What's interesting is they talk about in the program it's you know, it's it's attraction rather than promotion, right, and it's like, if you want what I have, I'll show you how to do it. So you know, I here's here's another great irony. I'm Rob's sobriety. Birthdate is May tenth, Mine is May eleventh. Wow. Wow, we're you know, I'm coming up on nineteen years in a few months here and he's got thirty one coming up. So I and we both like exactly the same kind of blend, right, Yeah, same, the same kind of chemistry we both we were. We were we were very good wingmen. I was let to say, did you guys already a lot together? Oh? As much as we could, as much as we could? Are you kidding me? Yeah? We had again to Rob's point that there are some memories that I definitely, you know, would I have no regrets and have great memories. And again, like you said, it was it was fun and games until it wasn't. And then I found myself in that incomprehensible demoralization of I can't live with it and I can't live without it. And I knew I had a problem, and it was really scary, you know, and I got to the point with with mine and I was hiding from everybody in my life, not let no one was really aware, anybody Rob. I think I don't know if he was even aware. I know, I didn't know it had ever become a problem for him. I knew he did it. He like you would love to party and was maybe probably still doing it. But I felt like he was probably partying the way quote unquote normal people. And I actually didn't know to progress to that. Yeah, and I didn't. And it was because I have I have a lot of recovery knowledge under my belt. I was at Family Week with Rob at Sierra Tucson, and I have friends other friends who have gone through you know, recovery, and so it's not it wasn't like this strange you know, discovery for me. So I had, you know, I had a little bit of a head full of recovery. So that just helped with the game, you know, and wanting to hide it all because when I Rob recovered, didn't you did you? Did you look at that as an impetus to maybe try or was it like now I'm just going to be on my own do my own thing. Well no, I mean I definitely felt like when he got sober, there was I was like, good luck to you, I mean, good for you. I'm happy, and I was grateful to him. But there was never a part of me that was like, that's my path too. I just knew I had a lot more fun in me, I thought, you know, and and was never I was never like a morning drinker, every day drinker or anything like that. It's such a h and baffling and powerful disease, you know. It just it really knuck up on me and I And I think that speaks a lot to kind of the genetic component of it, because you know, I was always you know, very aware of like I need to get on the wagon. I've got a big meeting coming up. I'm going to go dry this whole week, And so I laugh about dry January. I'm like, if you have to go dry and January I work it together eleven months of the year. But but I I and again no judgments at all, but you know, it just for me, it just it got to the point where I was, you know, killing myself, and the easier, softer way for me seemed to be dying. Which I look back on that now and I just think, that's it's so incredibly sad to think that how much I would have lost and that I could have gotten to that place. And I had that moment of clarity when I looked in the mirror and you know, had been on a run for a few days, and I couldn't see myself anymore, and I and I started crying, and and I just thought, I don't even know who I'm looking at right now in this mirror. And also that you know that stereotype of like, well, is this what an addict and an alcoholic looked like? Because I don't think it is. And you know, my first meeting, you know, I had kind of a big event that happened. Basically I got caught, which was the greatest in some ways, a very kindful day but also one of the greatest of my life because it's when I really was able to let people know what I would have been fighting, and so I was able to let my secret out. And I picked up the phone book and I looked. I looked in the beginning of the phone book in the ades, I'll just say, and I made a call and went to a twelve step. I know that feeling, man, I know the feeling of holding it in and having to sort of finally let it off your chest. You know, for me it was a little different, or you guys got to go. I won't get into my whole story, but like it was, you know, two and a half years of holding in. I was unfaithful to my wife. We were in engaged, and I spiraled down and I was had an addiction. I mean, there's no doubt about it. I would I would cry and then go out and pour myself a drink and get right back out there in the field. And it was just fucking horrendous to me. And finally, after two and a half years of just annihilating myself, I finally had to come clean because I couldn't live with myself anymore. And the day that I did, that sort of relief, even though I'm risking everything in my life at that point, it was so great. I mean, it was like, oh God, just to get it off off of my chest, you know. Yeah. It was also so great because that moment took the pressure off my divorce. It did. It was a perfect timing. It was perfect time I was getting divorced and everybody was mad at me. And then I was like, well, and then all it's like I have a sex addiction, and I'm like, oh, thank God, thank God, Oh thank God. By the way, can I just point I need to point out something because those who might be listening and questioning about all this that here are multiple addicts, sex addicts, drug aggs, vados in recovery happy and we're talking about and we're laughing. And that's the thing that that that I find so remarkable and like I want to tell because my biggest the thing that kept me from getting sober for so long was my fun would be dead right like my like like I would not I'd be a stick in the mud. I'd be some fuddy duddy and like, dude, we laugh, Well, I laugh more now, like the fact that we're all laughing about this this stuff. It's deadly serious, but we get through it and we have the tools to get through it and we're able to laugh about it. Is I think that, to me is probably the most unexpected thing that people don't know is waiting for them in recovery. Yes, And that is why I also think it's so important to be open about these things, because it also does show people that, you know, when when you get to the other side of it, there's just an enormous community of people who are right there with you, like have had the same experiences, and you know, there's something very liberating about you know that. That's why you know, the first step is to just not be in denial, and the second you're not in denial, like you said, it's your first step into you know, integrity. It's like our trainer, my trainer would say, it's awareness and awareness leads to integrity. And I think it's a really interesting you guys are going to ask the one question we're not going to do any speed route, the final one, which is which is the good one you go for? Okay, you save you save the good one for last. Clearly, I wish we could reading some of these. I can do five, let's do a couple of then one word to just gribe the other m This is we're supposed to. They're both. Yeah. When I when I do these speed rounds, I don't edit. I do whatever pops into my head. And so I with chat. I got sweet and now I'm acting so I can find the word it's so sweet. It's hard. It's hard unless it pops right into your head, and that just happens. I have a bunch of them are popping in. But I'm like, I like Chad, I'm floundering so badly. But you can edit. You can edit whatever you want. Like radio, Si're not editing. This is a window into how you feel about your brother, total window. This is better than anything we now, we understand. How about we just move on. Chad Oliver's got me hereis I like it? Okay? Song to sum up your childhood? Oh so many? But Chad and I do this all the time. We send each other these like TikTok clips of obscure songs from our childhood. It's a super fun game. Yeah. One of the one of the best gifts Rob ever gave me when he went to do The Outsiders was his I got his room, and I got his record player and his records. Discover all of the great music he had discovered before me. So I got all the Jackson Brown's, Chris Spring Themes and the Pretenders and all these great albums, and so what one song that for both of us are in individual childhood? Dude, I might have to I might have to go with Year of the Cat. We we have this thing about the song Year of the Cat. Were just like, it's such a great song, you Stuart, So no, oh, come on, I don't know it. How do we not be here? Of the Cats? You do? If you hear it, you'll know it the second you hear it. Well, I love that. It's a massive, massive radio yacht rock classic nineteen seventy six. Then that's why we're born here. Definitely, Definitely we built this city. We built the city on rock and roll. Yeah, but that's okay. It's really the same song. It's like a total popum like guilty Pleasure, Yeah, super guilty pleasure song. Next one is first concert that's easy elo for me. It was Yellow and Dayton harr Arena and Dayton, Ohio Cool. Mine was David Cassidy, Oh my god at hair Arena. What about it? Who's the better cook? Oh chah, that's a good question. Have you ever cooked rog I I I eat. I like to eat. I do not like to cook. I have no desire to cook. I know that I'm a lesser human for that. I'm very aware that that is a flaw enoughing to be proud of. But but but Chad is a way way better. What about first, the first celebrity crush, celebrity crush, but not like a real one, not like one that you were working with. Well, I guess if he was no, no, no, no no too, I mean you know, yeah, it was. It was like working with that. He's like he's like Demy Moore. I mean, well, that's like when you tell your your spouse, like you have a you get your freebie, and I always like, but that you can't have that freebie because that could actually happen, right right, I'm like, no, that my freebie is never happening. You were actually have right, you know, that can't be your freebie. My first celebrity crush was Olivia Newton. Oh yeah, mine was Yvonne Craig, who played Batgirl Batman Don't Sleep on Back Girl. She was hot. I remember her. Yeah, red I think that I think that started my thing for redheads. Yeah. The dream is still alive? First kiss, and then we'll do our last question. Julius Ziggler, who was playing a jitterbug in the production of The Wizard of Oz that I did at the Dayton Playhouse and hiding this is here. Here, Here are the ingredients that fucked me up forever and I chased forever starlet, young actress, hiding in the dark, secrecy and the smell of grease paint. Oh yeah, well I like that. All of that sounded great, right, yes, it did. My first the first kiss I remember was we were living in Montrose, Colorado for about six months on our way from Dayton, Ohio, and I was in second grade, I think first grade. A third grade or fourth grade girl said she was going to teach me how to how to French kiss. I don't remember her. I don't remember her name, but I do remember her tongue. That hell is this? Wow? Okay? Right, last question you want to ask. It's a two part question. The first part is if there was one thing that you could alleviate from your brother that you think would optimize their life, what would that be? And the second part is if there was something that you could emulate from your brother that you wish you had more of, or that you uh that that you think would you know better your own life? What would that be? Easy? This is the easy one for me to answer, and the older I would rather have more time to think about this one. Chad's in the hot seat again. I know. Do you want to go first? Go first? Internet, It's going to go out all of the time that I would. I would relieve my my brother of of his I want to. I want to phrase it right because it it has a lot of different iterations and his I would say, second guessing of himself or hesitancy on decision making, and and what I would like more of that he has is easy. I would love to have his his empathy, I would love I would love to have more more of that. Not that I'm not empathetic, but chadlaw he feels he cries more right, I know, I'm a crier. I'm a crier. I'm a crier. Yeah, I cry all the time. I cry. I just cry just when I'm like you know what I should cry? Okay, Chad, it's your turn. What what would I relieve? I think I think I would relieve uh his, I think I would And again similarly, it's hard to it's hard to say this because it's not like a word, but I think I would. I think I would take some of the fracture off of my brother and his his sense of having to be all things to all people. I would relieve that it's almost like giving him permission to be squawed and to be not have not not have it all together. Not that he doesn't feel like he always does, but there is that part where I feel like, have you been sitting in my men's group therapy? You plug a listening device, you have a men's Can I be invited to that? I think there's affair talking we have to all do and what would I what would the other one? What would I like to get of his? What do I want of his? Like something that you would like to emulate? Well, I think I try. I try to do it and do it at times. And it's not just it's not it's kind of what you what he was saying, like that self assuredness, the the the and it's it's not that I'm not self assured, it's they're the weird thing with being empathetic and also you know, not wanting to always interject and wanting to stay back and mind my place. And there is a part of me though that does that, that that would like and work to have that kind of authority. I think that he has that Rob has is who is more of more authority with with things in my life, If that make sense. Yeah, yeah, Well, thank you guys. This is really fun. This is so nice. You guys were you guys are so damn cute together. It's just it's just fun to be believed and amazing questions, just so such great questions. Oh great, thank you. I I love it. I'm glad. I'm glad we were able to do it. This was you guys are so much fun. We can do five hours. I know, I know. Sibling Revelry is executive produced by Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson. Producer is Alison President, editor is Josh Wendish. Music by Mark Hudson a k A. Uncle Mark. If you want to show us some love, rate the show and leave us a review. This show is powered by simple Cast