Hi.

Hi.

I am Kate Hudson and my name is Oliver Hudson. We wanted to do something that highlighted our relationship and what it's like to be siblings. We are a sibling railvalry. No, no, sibling. You don't do that with your mouth. Revelry. That's good. Oh yeah, that's why. That's how I feel. Right, I'm hungry. I'm hungry because I am intermittent fasting once again. I've got problems. You know. It's like I go in these waves of work out intermitt fast, like be healthy, and then you know, fall off into some hit. But I went to the Lakers game last night. It was so much fun and I'm not drinking during the week. This is my new thing. But then you go to the Lakers game, Like, how am I not going to have some beers? You know what I mean, It's like an impossibility not to and I did, and then you have two beers and then you know, I'm with Kate, my assist, and she's like, let's have let's have a martini. I'm like yeah, and then it's halftime and then it's like do you want another martini? I'm like yeah, and then you know we finished the martini and we have some cool food, and then Kate's like, you know, should we do another one. I'm like, yeah, I'll just do a course light. And then I'm like, what the fuck am I doing? Anyway? And then I came home and it was great. And it was my son's birthday yesterday, Bodie. It was fifteen, and it's my little man. And I'll talk about all that later. Anyway, We've got Carrie Burke waiting in our waiting room. I'm excited to talk to her. Interesting. She hit me up and she's got multiple books, I think multiple bestsellers. She's got another book coming out, and she's a young buck who is tackling the issues of anxiety, which is just very cool to hear something from her perspective at this age, assuming, of course, she's probably gone through it herself. It's very timely. As anyone who's listening to my podcast, you know, they know that I've been through my fair share of shit. So let's commiserate, let's experience, and let's try to be impactful and figure some shit out. So bring her up. Hey, Hi, how are you.

I am Kate Hudson and my name is Oliver Hudson. We wanted to do something that highlighted our relationship and what it's like to be siblings. We are a sibling railvalry. No, no, sibling. You don't do that with your mouth. Revelry. That's good. Oh yeah, that's why. That's how I feel. Right, I'm hungry. I'm hungry because I am intermittent fasting once again. I've got problems. You know. It's like I go in these waves of work out intermitt fast, like be healthy, and then you know, fall off into some hit. But I went to the Lakers game last night. It was so much fun and I'm not drinking during the week. This is my new thing. But then you go to the Lakers game, Like, how am I not going to have some beers? You know what I mean, It's like an impossibility not to and I did, and then you have two beers and then you know, I'm with Kate, my assist, and she's like, let's have let's have a martini. I'm like yeah, and then it's halftime and then it's like do you want another martini? I'm like yeah, and then you know we finished the martini and we have some cool food, and then Kate's like, you know, should we do another one. I'm like, yeah, I'll just do a course light. And then I'm like, what the fuck am I doing? Anyway? And then I came home and it was great. And it was my son's birthday yesterday, Bodie. It was fifteen, and it's my little man. And I'll talk about all that later. Anyway, We've got Carrie Burke waiting in our waiting room. I'm excited to talk to her. Interesting. She hit me up and she's got multiple books, I think multiple bestsellers. She's got another book coming out, and she's a young buck who is tackling the issues of anxiety, which is just very cool to hear something from her perspective at this age, assuming, of course, she's probably gone through it herself. It's very timely. As anyone who's listening to my podcast, you know, they know that I've been through my fair share of shit. So let's commiserate, let's experience, and let's try to be impactful and figure some shit out. So bring her up. Hey, Hi, how are you.

I'm good, Nice to meet you.

I'm good, Nice to meet you.

Nice to meet you too. Where are you looks city like you and in New York?

Nice to meet you too. Where are you looks city like you and in New York?

I'm in New York.

I'm in New York.

Are you born and raised New York?

Are you born and raised New York?

Yes?

Yes?

Family, siblings, have siblings? No siblings, No siblings.

Family, siblings, have siblings? No siblings, No siblings.

I know I'm a little sad about it, but are you? I am? I feel like I wanted like a best friend growing up. I had to learn independent all by myself.

I know I'm a little sad about it, but are you? I am? I feel like I wanted like a best friend growing up. I had to learn independent all by myself.

Yeah, and did you ever give your parents shit about it?

Yeah, and did you ever give your parents shit about it?

No? I feel like I only really got mad about it when I kind of turned eighteen and I realized that I didn't really grow into my own because I didn't have like an older sister to look up to or an older brother to look up to. Them about it when I got older. But back then it was really nice because I got all the attention.

No? I feel like I only really got mad about it when I kind of turned eighteen and I realized that I didn't really grow into my own because I didn't have like an older sister to look up to or an older brother to look up to. Them about it when I got older. But back then it was really nice because I got all the attention.

Of course, But you can blame all of your problems on your parents now, because if they had only given you a sibling, you would be You would be perfect, you would have no mental health issues, you would not be ailing in any way whatsoever because you had a partner in crime. So at least you have that excuse.

Of course, But you can blame all of your problems on your parents now, because if they had only given you a sibling, you would be You would be perfect, you would have no mental health issues, you would not be ailing in any way whatsoever because you had a partner in crime. So at least you have that excuse.

Exactly.

Exactly.

I have no excuse. I have no excuse. We have I have siblings, I've got siblings. Well, thanks for coming on. Thanks for hitting me up. You know, I've obviously, you know, talked about my anxiety, you know issues growing up. First started in my twenties, and it was you know, I've talked about it before, but it was almost like having a heart attack, went down to a knee, not understanding what it was. Thought I was dying on the streets of Hollywood, you know, and that sort of began the journey of a bit of self discovery, of course, because we're trying to figure out where why this has happened, where it comes from, and why it's happened. I went and I did all the tests. I mean, I thought I was dying, you know, it's heart this that okay, And then meditation, journaling in my first bout anyway, sort of got me through it, but there was still this residual feeling of just unease. And then I went on SELEXA and then after that I've had sort of two more pretty gnarly bouts of it, all the while sort of living with you know, some low grade stuff. But as you know, we learn how to manage it, the feeling becomes a little bit more normalized. It doesn't get as scary. So I'm glad to have you on. And how old are you? Were? Twenties, early twenties, twenty two, twenty two and you're prolific, meaning how many books have you written already twenty two? Are you shitting me? I'm not shitting you, Okay, So explain how this happen because it's such a young age. Yes, how are you even? How did you even develop that the work ethic? You know what, I mean? To sit down and start writing books, your executive functioning must be off the charts.

I have no excuse. I have no excuse. We have I have siblings, I've got siblings. Well, thanks for coming on. Thanks for hitting me up. You know, I've obviously, you know, talked about my anxiety, you know issues growing up. First started in my twenties, and it was you know, I've talked about it before, but it was almost like having a heart attack, went down to a knee, not understanding what it was. Thought I was dying on the streets of Hollywood, you know, and that sort of began the journey of a bit of self discovery, of course, because we're trying to figure out where why this has happened, where it comes from, and why it's happened. I went and I did all the tests. I mean, I thought I was dying, you know, it's heart this that okay, And then meditation, journaling in my first bout anyway, sort of got me through it, but there was still this residual feeling of just unease. And then I went on SELEXA and then after that I've had sort of two more pretty gnarly bouts of it, all the while sort of living with you know, some low grade stuff. But as you know, we learn how to manage it, the feeling becomes a little bit more normalized. It doesn't get as scary. So I'm glad to have you on. And how old are you? Were? Twenties, early twenties, twenty two, twenty two and you're prolific, meaning how many books have you written already twenty two? Are you shitting me? I'm not shitting you, Okay, So explain how this happen because it's such a young age. Yes, how are you even? How did you even develop that the work ethic? You know what, I mean? To sit down and start writing books, your executive functioning must be off the charts.

I don't even know. I think I've just had such a passion for writing since I was a little girl. So the majority of the books I wrote previously were with my mom. I wrote children's books growing up with her, and that's kind of how I got into it. But as I've grown older and kind of when the pandemic hit, I really decided to come into my own as a writer and come out with my first solo debut book. So I'd written about all these children's book topics before, but I wanted to write about things that are more pertinent to me and my generation, and also just do something that matters and write about topics that matter. So my first book was about romance and and kind of how I learned how to navigate those tricky waters as a teenager in dating in New York City, because it is very tough. And I talk a lot in the book about how once I went through my whole anxiety journey and I found self love, That's really when I felt like I could find a partner, and that's what really resonated the most with people in that first book. So I kind of took that and ran with it, and that's what brought me to write my latest book, which is called The Mind Fire.

I don't even know. I think I've just had such a passion for writing since I was a little girl. So the majority of the books I wrote previously were with my mom. I wrote children's books growing up with her, and that's kind of how I got into it. But as I've grown older and kind of when the pandemic hit, I really decided to come into my own as a writer and come out with my first solo debut book. So I'd written about all these children's book topics before, but I wanted to write about things that are more pertinent to me and my generation, and also just do something that matters and write about topics that matter. So my first book was about romance and and kind of how I learned how to navigate those tricky waters as a teenager in dating in New York City, because it is very tough. And I talk a lot in the book about how once I went through my whole anxiety journey and I found self love, That's really when I felt like I could find a partner, and that's what really resonated the most with people in that first book. So I kind of took that and ran with it, and that's what brought me to write my latest book, which is called The Mind Fire.

So when you wrote the first book Pandemic, you're twenty two. So are we looking at like eighteen nineteen years old? Is this?

So when you wrote the first book Pandemic, you're twenty two. So are we looking at like eighteen nineteen years old? Is this?

Yeah? So I was class of twenty twenty. I didn't have from or graduation or anything like that, so it was a really tough year for my entire class.

Yeah? So I was class of twenty twenty. I didn't have from or graduation or anything like that, so it was a really tough year for my entire class.

I bet I want to get into all that, but first, you're writing a book about romance and finding love at such a young age, which is interesting because these are sort of our exploratory years when, of course we want to find someone we love a partner, you know. I mean, I'm forty eight, but I remember when year when I was eighteen or nineteen years old. You know, the world is our sort of oyster minus anxiety, minus the things that are holding us back from experiencing the world as we want to. But it's really interesting that you're writing a book about love and romance for this generation. It's interesting what I haven't read it about? What angles are you taking? You know what I mean? Because it's not for a forever thing. I mean maybe it is, but yeah, you know, how are you boiling that down to your demographic?

I bet I want to get into all that, but first, you're writing a book about romance and finding love at such a young age, which is interesting because these are sort of our exploratory years when, of course we want to find someone we love a partner, you know. I mean, I'm forty eight, but I remember when year when I was eighteen or nineteen years old. You know, the world is our sort of oyster minus anxiety, minus the things that are holding us back from experiencing the world as we want to. But it's really interesting that you're writing a book about love and romance for this generation. It's interesting what I haven't read it about? What angles are you taking? You know what I mean? Because it's not for a forever thing. I mean maybe it is, but yeah, you know, how are you boiling that down to your demographic?

So I like to call it the gen z. Sex in the City I was named after Kerrie Bradshaw. I feel like I was kind of destined to write this.

So I like to call it the gen z. Sex in the City I was named after Kerrie Bradshaw. I feel like I was kind of destined to write this.

It's so funny. No, I did an episode of Sex in the City.

It's so funny. No, I did an episode of Sex in the City.

That's so cool.

That's so cool.

Was just on Kristin Davis. I just did her podcast yesterday. This is with her yesterday.

Was just on Kristin Davis. I just did her podcast yesterday. This is with her yesterday.

I love it. Sex and the City is literally in my blood. My mom looked at the the HBO website for Sex and the City when I was born, so she wanted to name me Carrie, and everyone was like, no, no, you can't. Can't name her Carrie. That's too embarrassing. Because Sarah Jessica was pregnant at the same time with her son. So she named me Caroline and I go by Carrie. Funny enough, and I write about this in my book. When I was twelve, I became friends with her son. Oh, I had no idea who she was, Like, my mom didn't introduce me to sex and the City until I was of age.

I love it. Sex and the City is literally in my blood. My mom looked at the the HBO website for Sex and the City when I was born, so she wanted to name me Carrie, and everyone was like, no, no, you can't. Can't name her Carrie. That's too embarrassing. Because Sarah Jessica was pregnant at the same time with her son. So she named me Caroline and I go by Carrie. Funny enough, and I write about this in my book. When I was twelve, I became friends with her son. Oh, I had no idea who she was, Like, my mom didn't introduce me to sex and the City until I was of age.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So one day she was dropping me off at a playdate with the Sun and she opened the door and it was Sarah Jessica. Oh my god, Oh wow, you have no idea this this woman inspired your name. And I just had no idea at the time. It was just one of my good friends.

So one day she was dropping me off at a playdate with the Sun and she opened the door and it was Sarah Jessica. Oh my god, Oh wow, you have no idea this this woman inspired your name. And I just had no idea at the time. It was just one of my good friends.

Wow. That must have been shocking.

Wow. That must have been shocking.

Yeah, I mean it was a very nice house.

Yeah, I mean it was a very nice house.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I feel like we knew something was up.

I feel like we knew something was up.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean I was a fan of Ferris Bueller. I saw Roderick and I was like, oh my god, no, no, no, that's Sarah Jessica Parker.

I mean I was a fan of Ferris Bueller. I saw Roderick and I was like, oh my god, no, no, no, that's Sarah Jessica Parker.

You're like, great, but I don't care. It's it's it's Fairest Bueller.

You're like, great, but I don't care. It's it's it's Fairest Bueller.

Cooler a swimming pool. Yeah that was crazy. Uh yeah, back to your question. Yeah, why I'm writing about love at et So I feel like there were not a lot of books out there written by a teenager four teenagers talking about that topic. And even though it's not necessarily you finding your forever person at age eighteen, I mean maybe, but likely not. These are really important formative years of our lives. You might be falling in love for the first time, getting your heart broken for the first time, and people don't really have a guide on how to navigate that beyond a wiki how or like data that scientists posts or anything like that, or like experts. It's not coming from the source and someone who's going through it. So I took my skills as a writer and my knowledge as just an eighteen year old girl and use that to write a book.

Cooler a swimming pool. Yeah that was crazy. Uh yeah, back to your question. Yeah, why I'm writing about love at et So I feel like there were not a lot of books out there written by a teenager four teenagers talking about that topic. And even though it's not necessarily you finding your forever person at age eighteen, I mean maybe, but likely not. These are really important formative years of our lives. You might be falling in love for the first time, getting your heart broken for the first time, and people don't really have a guide on how to navigate that beyond a wiki how or like data that scientists posts or anything like that, or like experts. It's not coming from the source and someone who's going through it. So I took my skills as a writer and my knowledge as just an eighteen year old girl and use that to write a book.

Did you have experience though, with heartbreak, with love, with rejection, with all of that? Were you writing from a place of experience or was you were okay?

Did you have experience though, with heartbreak, with love, with rejection, with all of that? Were you writing from a place of experience or was you were okay?

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, for sure.

Not to say that you can't write from a place from an outside perspective, you know, but if you had experience with some of these things, then it can resonate.

Not to say that you can't write from a place from an outside perspective, you know, but if you had experience with some of these things, then it can resonate.

Yeah, for sure. I wrote about getting my heartbroken, falling on for the first time, and then on top of that, it's just a fun read because growing up New York City and dating, growing up as a social media influencer at eighteen and dating all social media TikTok world. I have some really funny, interesting stories and people wanted to read it.

Yeah, for sure. I wrote about getting my heartbroken, falling on for the first time, and then on top of that, it's just a fun read because growing up New York City and dating, growing up as a social media influencer at eighteen and dating all social media TikTok world. I have some really funny, interesting stories and people wanted to read it.

Yeah, that's so great. My son is seventeen and he's had a girlfriend for two years fifteen when they got together, and it's real, you know, it's real love. Yeah, and it's really interesting to watch him mature because of it. You know, you're no longer just responsible for yourself and your feelings. You know, you have to take into account someone else's feelings. There's a ton of sacrifice, you know, where he wants to do something with his friend, but you know, he's made plans with his girl, and it's really amazing to watch him sort of navigate that and to see his maturity levels just sort of rise. I was similar. I was fifteen fourteen, I met my high school girlfriend and she was my high school sweetheart through all of high school, you know, and I love that. I think it's really amazing to sort of fill in that gap because I'm not sure I've ever heard of anyone writing about young love that way, and that's why I to fill me Yeah, yeah, no, it's great. So let's go to your anxiety let's talk about that for a second, because fun stuff. Yes, it's amazing I found though, I mean, obviously, you know, I was, I'm forty eight. I was twenty three or twenty four when I first had my bout right right, And it wasn't necessarily of course, technology wasn't what it is now. Everything wasn't right in our hands, you know, and we were inundated with algorithms, so it wasn't necessarily at the forefront of things where anxiety right now is almost hot like ADHD and anxiety are hot right now, you know. And my son actually went through it, Wilder, who I was telling you about. My mother went through it the same age that I did, you know. So I think there's some sort of a genetic component to it, which I don't know if that's scientifically proven or not, but but nowadays right so, but I would talk about it, never was afraid to express how I was feeling, and it was really comforting to hear people give it back to me and saying, oh, yeah, I'm going through that. I go through that. I've been through that, you know. So for you to write a book about it, your experiences with it, the people that it's probably going to reach help. It's tremendous. But talk about sort of how this happened, what age, How did you know it was anxiety?

Yeah, that's so great. My son is seventeen and he's had a girlfriend for two years fifteen when they got together, and it's real, you know, it's real love. Yeah, and it's really interesting to watch him mature because of it. You know, you're no longer just responsible for yourself and your feelings. You know, you have to take into account someone else's feelings. There's a ton of sacrifice, you know, where he wants to do something with his friend, but you know, he's made plans with his girl, and it's really amazing to watch him sort of navigate that and to see his maturity levels just sort of rise. I was similar. I was fifteen fourteen, I met my high school girlfriend and she was my high school sweetheart through all of high school, you know, and I love that. I think it's really amazing to sort of fill in that gap because I'm not sure I've ever heard of anyone writing about young love that way, and that's why I to fill me Yeah, yeah, no, it's great. So let's go to your anxiety let's talk about that for a second, because fun stuff. Yes, it's amazing I found though, I mean, obviously, you know, I was, I'm forty eight. I was twenty three or twenty four when I first had my bout right right, And it wasn't necessarily of course, technology wasn't what it is now. Everything wasn't right in our hands, you know, and we were inundated with algorithms, so it wasn't necessarily at the forefront of things where anxiety right now is almost hot like ADHD and anxiety are hot right now, you know. And my son actually went through it, Wilder, who I was telling you about. My mother went through it the same age that I did, you know. So I think there's some sort of a genetic component to it, which I don't know if that's scientifically proven or not, but but nowadays right so, but I would talk about it, never was afraid to express how I was feeling, and it was really comforting to hear people give it back to me and saying, oh, yeah, I'm going through that. I go through that. I've been through that, you know. So for you to write a book about it, your experiences with it, the people that it's probably going to reach help. It's tremendous. But talk about sort of how this happened, what age, How did you know it was anxiety?

Mm hmm. So I was very similar to you. I didn't know it was anxiety. I thought I was dying at the time. I thought it was COVID because it's the middle of COVID. So I had a panic attack one night, basically just couldn't breathe, my hands were shaking, I was sweating, just cookie cutter panic attack. But I didn't know what it was. So I went to the doctor next day and got a COVID test and it wasn't COVID, And my mom said, this sounds like it's anxiety. And to me, anxiety was the same thing as stressed. I thought it was like the butterflies i'd get before a test at school. I never really understood what anxiety was until I started to experience it frequently. So I would get those panic attacks a lot, most likely as a result of just eating, sleeping, and breathing as an eighteen year old girl being isolated in her adulting years, and it was just really tough. And one day I was at a pumpkin patch with one of my friends, and she told me that she also had anxiety, but to the point where she cut herself and she showed me her wrists, and that image of her wrists stuck in my mind for a really long time, and I couldn't let go of that image. And I was convinced that if I had anxiety and she had anxiety, then I was destined to end up like her. And I couldn't shake that thought, and eventually it just became such an overwhelming intrusive thought because I didn't want to hurt myself. That wasn't necessarily a logical thought. For some reason, I couldn't let go of it. So one day I just collapsed over my peloton bike, started crying and said, I can't take this anymore, like I have to get help. So I went to see a therapist, and my therapist told me that it was OCD, and same thing. I did not know what OCD was beyond what we see in the media, which is keeping your pencils in order, excessive cleaning. I didn't really understand that OCD can really be mental, an intense mental rumination that is debilitating. So it took time and a lot of education into the world of OCD and anxiety, and throughout it all, I was writing these diary entries to kind of make sense of everything, nothing that I ever wanted to publish, just to kind of help me make sense of what was going on inside my mind. And I turned a corner probably about two years into it, so twenty twenty two, when I realized it wasn't going to get better. And it's okay to admit that, because anxiety doesn't have a finish line. We don't strive towards being cured or anything. We just strive towards being stronger so that when it comes up, we know how to tackle it better. Yeah, And that's kind of when I started to learn a lot more and I looked back at these diary entries and it was really, I think maybe twenty twenty three or beginning of twenty twenty four, when I started piecing the entries together and I realized that I was at a point where I felt confident enough in my anxiety to publish them. But I didn't want to just publish them as personal essays. I wanted to put them into a book, because again, there's a gap out there. There's not enough people who are in their twenties talking about their anxiety. There's the data, there's the scientists. You can read all that, but it's so much more powerful to read from someone who's going through it that you can relate to.

Mm hmm. So I was very similar to you. I didn't know it was anxiety. I thought I was dying at the time. I thought it was COVID because it's the middle of COVID. So I had a panic attack one night, basically just couldn't breathe, my hands were shaking, I was sweating, just cookie cutter panic attack. But I didn't know what it was. So I went to the doctor next day and got a COVID test and it wasn't COVID, And my mom said, this sounds like it's anxiety. And to me, anxiety was the same thing as stressed. I thought it was like the butterflies i'd get before a test at school. I never really understood what anxiety was until I started to experience it frequently. So I would get those panic attacks a lot, most likely as a result of just eating, sleeping, and breathing as an eighteen year old girl being isolated in her adulting years, and it was just really tough. And one day I was at a pumpkin patch with one of my friends, and she told me that she also had anxiety, but to the point where she cut herself and she showed me her wrists, and that image of her wrists stuck in my mind for a really long time, and I couldn't let go of that image. And I was convinced that if I had anxiety and she had anxiety, then I was destined to end up like her. And I couldn't shake that thought, and eventually it just became such an overwhelming intrusive thought because I didn't want to hurt myself. That wasn't necessarily a logical thought. For some reason, I couldn't let go of it. So one day I just collapsed over my peloton bike, started crying and said, I can't take this anymore, like I have to get help. So I went to see a therapist, and my therapist told me that it was OCD, and same thing. I did not know what OCD was beyond what we see in the media, which is keeping your pencils in order, excessive cleaning. I didn't really understand that OCD can really be mental, an intense mental rumination that is debilitating. So it took time and a lot of education into the world of OCD and anxiety, and throughout it all, I was writing these diary entries to kind of make sense of everything, nothing that I ever wanted to publish, just to kind of help me make sense of what was going on inside my mind. And I turned a corner probably about two years into it, so twenty twenty two, when I realized it wasn't going to get better. And it's okay to admit that, because anxiety doesn't have a finish line. We don't strive towards being cured or anything. We just strive towards being stronger so that when it comes up, we know how to tackle it better. Yeah, And that's kind of when I started to learn a lot more and I looked back at these diary entries and it was really, I think maybe twenty twenty three or beginning of twenty twenty four, when I started piecing the entries together and I realized that I was at a point where I felt confident enough in my anxiety to publish them. But I didn't want to just publish them as personal essays. I wanted to put them into a book, because again, there's a gap out there. There's not enough people who are in their twenties talking about their anxiety. There's the data, there's the scientists. You can read all that, but it's so much more powerful to read from someone who's going through it that you can relate to.

To help me feel less alone.

To help me feel less alone.

That's a long winded version of how mine came to be.

That's a long winded version of how mine came to be.

No, no, not at all. It was not at all long winded. But I wonder. So you had that first panic attack not knowing what it was, and it's scary shit because it's like I'm dying.

No, no, not at all. It was not at all long winded. But I wonder. So you had that first panic attack not knowing what it was, and it's scary shit because it's like I'm dying.

Yeah, it's the worst.

Yeah, it's the worst.

So once you were able to come to terms with the fact that you weren't dying, it still doesn't get better until you actually dig in and live with it and then begin to understand that it's just a feeling. Yeah, it's not going to kill you, and then sort of disassociating yourself from you as the human and your anxiety, meaning you are not your anxiety, you just have it. You know, I was in Did you do cognitive behavioral therapy? Is that what you were doing? Or?

So once you were able to come to terms with the fact that you weren't dying, it still doesn't get better until you actually dig in and live with it and then begin to understand that it's just a feeling. Yeah, it's not going to kill you, and then sort of disassociating yourself from you as the human and your anxiety, meaning you are not your anxiety, you just have it. You know, I was in Did you do cognitive behavioral therapy? Is that what you were doing? Or?

Yeah, cognitive therapy and also exposure and response prevention therapy for my own city. So for example, like closing my eyes and envisioning the intrusive thought. Really living it and imagining it in vivid detail in order to desensitize yourself to me is super hard.

Yeah, cognitive therapy and also exposure and response prevention therapy for my own city. So for example, like closing my eyes and envisioning the intrusive thought. Really living it and imagining it in vivid detail in order to desensitize yourself to me is super hard.

Yeah, I bet so. But when how did it manifest itself after that first sort of panic attack on the from day on, like the day to day on the daily you know, how is your how is it manifesting itself?

Yeah, I bet so. But when how did it manifest itself after that first sort of panic attack on the from day on, like the day to day on the daily you know, how is your how is it manifesting itself?

Well, before the pumpkin patch, it was all physical. It was just me sweating, shaking. I would like drop my breakfast on the floor because my hands were shaking so much. Wow. I was having trouble breathing, just shallow breaths. And then after the pumpkin patch, it kind of flipped a switch and it was purely mental rumination. So I had managed to convince myself that because I had anxiety, I was destined to hurt myself, and I was just like waiting for waiting for something to give, Like I didn't trust myself anymore because I felt like I saw this image in my future and I was convinced that, like I was going to get there even though I didn't want to get there. And it was just me logicing through that thought over and over again every day, so I would I would literally sit and look at my ceiling and go, I'm really confused. I don't know why I'm having this thought. I don't want to hurt myself, but I can't stop thinking about it. So what do I do? I don't want to hurt myself because XYZ, so I just like logic through it, and once I reached a point of resolution, five minutes later, it would start all over again. And that's what OCD is. You're obsessing over the thought. You're performing the compulsion by telling yourself why the thought isn't true. And by doing that, it's like filling a cup with a hole in it. You're just going to eat that over and over again.

Well, before the pumpkin patch, it was all physical. It was just me sweating, shaking. I would like drop my breakfast on the floor because my hands were shaking so much. Wow. I was having trouble breathing, just shallow breaths. And then after the pumpkin patch, it kind of flipped a switch and it was purely mental rumination. So I had managed to convince myself that because I had anxiety, I was destined to hurt myself, and I was just like waiting for waiting for something to give, Like I didn't trust myself anymore because I felt like I saw this image in my future and I was convinced that, like I was going to get there even though I didn't want to get there. And it was just me logicing through that thought over and over again every day, so I would I would literally sit and look at my ceiling and go, I'm really confused. I don't know why I'm having this thought. I don't want to hurt myself, but I can't stop thinking about it. So what do I do? I don't want to hurt myself because XYZ, so I just like logic through it, and once I reached a point of resolution, five minutes later, it would start all over again. And that's what OCD is. You're obsessing over the thought. You're performing the compulsion by telling yourself why the thought isn't true. And by doing that, it's like filling a cup with a hole in it. You're just going to eat that over and over again.

Yeah, yeah, and you can't stop. That's the frustrating part where it's like, oh, just like Carrie, stop fucking thinking about it, you know what I mean. But it's it's you can't And.

Yeah, yeah, and you can't stop. That's the frustrating part where it's like, oh, just like Carrie, stop fucking thinking about it, you know what I mean. But it's it's you can't And.

The number of times I heard that too, like when I first told my mom.

The number of times I heard that too, like when I first told my mom.

Of course, just stop thinking about it.

Of course, just stop thinking about it.

Yeah, just stop thinking about it. Think of something else you don't like. It's that girl in school that's bullying you. Why can't you like imagine being so mad at her? And I'm like, no, you don't understand, Like, the reason why I'm latching onto this thought is because it's something I value. I value my life. OCD latches onto things that you care about and that are of most value to you. And at the time the pandemic, I value living. I wanted my life back, So of course that's what my OCD latched onto.

Yeah, just stop thinking about it. Think of something else you don't like. It's that girl in school that's bullying you. Why can't you like imagine being so mad at her? And I'm like, no, you don't understand, Like, the reason why I'm latching onto this thought is because it's something I value. I value my life. OCD latches onto things that you care about and that are of most value to you. And at the time the pandemic, I value living. I wanted my life back, So of course that's what my OCD latched onto.

Yeah. Yeah, And how did how did it affect your sort of daily life? Because if it went from that physical to those just ruminations, were you able to live a normal existence? Of course it was COVID, but you know, were you able to sort of you know, walk around do your thing? And yes, you're ruminating, but it wasn't physical like and I'm asking this because for me, it was physical, you know what I mean. Like in the first bout, it was stomach like I would throw up, you know, I would go if I walked outside, I would throw up there. And that I wasn't bree I was shallow breath. I'd have be having sex with my wife, and it was just kind of like you got to get off, like I couldn't function from a physical standpoint. And then of course it changed. In my last bout, it was it was it was very different, which was about five years ago, you know, But did it affect your your walk around, your daily existence.

Yeah. Yeah, And how did how did it affect your sort of daily life? Because if it went from that physical to those just ruminations, were you able to live a normal existence? Of course it was COVID, but you know, were you able to sort of you know, walk around do your thing? And yes, you're ruminating, but it wasn't physical like and I'm asking this because for me, it was physical, you know what I mean. Like in the first bout, it was stomach like I would throw up, you know, I would go if I walked outside, I would throw up there. And that I wasn't bree I was shallow breath. I'd have be having sex with my wife, and it was just kind of like you got to get off, like I couldn't function from a physical standpoint. And then of course it changed. In my last bout, it was it was it was very different, which was about five years ago, you know, But did it affect your your walk around, your daily existence.

Yeah, but different in the sense that people may not have known as much as maybe for you, like if you were physically vomiting and saw that. So, yes, I was struggling, but nobody, nobody knew. I just wasn't I wasn't present. I was going about my day to day life at the time. I was blowing up on TikTok. So on the outside, it looked like I had this massive success, I was making money. It looked like everything was wonderful, But I was not present. I felt depersonalized. I would be walking around and my surroundings would be blurry. So I would be functioning and I would be there, but I wouldn't really be there.

Yeah, but different in the sense that people may not have known as much as maybe for you, like if you were physically vomiting and saw that. So, yes, I was struggling, but nobody, nobody knew. I just wasn't I wasn't present. I was going about my day to day life at the time. I was blowing up on TikTok. So on the outside, it looked like I had this massive success, I was making money. It looked like everything was wonderful, But I was not present. I felt depersonalized. I would be walking around and my surroundings would be blurry. So I would be functioning and I would be there, but I wouldn't really be there.

It's that disassociation where you don't feel real. And that's what my son said to me when it first started. He's like, Dad, I just don't feel real. Yeah, and I get that, where you're just like, what universe am I living in?

It's that disassociation where you don't feel real. And that's what my son said to me when it first started. He's like, Dad, I just don't feel real. Yeah, and I get that, where you're just like, what universe am I living in?

Yeah, that's a good way of putting it. Almost like you're on the outside looking in on yourself. Yeah, take yourself out of it, but you can't.

Yeah, that's a good way of putting it. Almost like you're on the outside looking in on yourself. Yeah, take yourself out of it, but you can't.

I am on lexaproo. Yeah are you? Are you on lexapro? Yeah? So and it helped. And my last bout was when I tried to wean off of it and I did it properly.

I am on lexaproo. Yeah are you? Are you on lexapro? Yeah? So and it helped. And my last bout was when I tried to wean off of it and I did it properly.

It's so hard.

It's so hard.

Oh I did it. I thought I did it properly, and I was just like, you know what, I don't think I need this anymore. I mean, I feel good, so let me just you know, not really knowing why, I was just like I just don't want to be on it and I don't even know why. But I did it, and oh man, it fucked me up big time.

Oh I did it. I thought I did it properly, and I was just like, you know what, I don't think I need this anymore. I mean, I feel good, so let me just you know, not really knowing why, I was just like I just don't want to be on it and I don't even know why. But I did it, and oh man, it fucked me up big time.

I tried to. I think I went down like five milligrams like a time bit. Yeah, a total freak out. And then I was like I'm not doing this.

I tried to. I think I went down like five milligrams like a time bit. Yeah, a total freak out. And then I was like I'm not doing this.

Nope, Yeah I did it. I started like this is a few years back, but I started in maybe May, in March and or you know, actually February started my wien process. And then once I hit the summer months, I was a fucking basket case. But I was still fighting and I'm like I'm going to get through this. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna fucking do it. And then I get a call of like they want you to do this TV show in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and I'm like, Okay, I can't. I can't go work like this, Like this would be insane, you know what I mean? So I said, fuck it. I guess I just go back on you know, yeah, go back on it.

Nope, Yeah I did it. I started like this is a few years back, but I started in maybe May, in March and or you know, actually February started my wien process. And then once I hit the summer months, I was a fucking basket case. But I was still fighting and I'm like I'm going to get through this. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna fucking do it. And then I get a call of like they want you to do this TV show in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and I'm like, Okay, I can't. I can't go work like this, Like this would be insane, you know what I mean? So I said, fuck it. I guess I just go back on you know, yeah, go back on it.

It's there's no shame in taking medication. Obviously it's not everything, and not everybody needs it, but it certainly helps, and especially if you're someone who's debilitated by something like anxiety or OCD, it just takes the edge off. It's not a cure all, but it helps you be a little a bit better functioning of a human.

It's there's no shame in taking medication. Obviously it's not everything, and not everybody needs it, but it certainly helps, and especially if you're someone who's debilitated by something like anxiety or OCD, it just takes the edge off. It's not a cure all, but it helps you be a little a bit better functioning of a human.

Where are you at right now with all of it? You know? I mean, are you pretty stable or do you still have now that you are on lexapro or are you are you just cool all the time.

Where are you at right now with all of it? You know? I mean, are you pretty stable or do you still have now that you are on lexapro or are you are you just cool all the time.

So the difference with the lexapro is my physical symptoms are reduced, so I think anxiety and intrusive thoughts are pretty constant. I'm going to live with them my whole life. It is as someone with OCD, like they're just going to stick, and it is what it is. Difference though, is I can have these intrusive thoughts every day and Sure they suck and I'm annoyed by them, but they're not debilitating. So every time I get a thought every day, I'm not panicking anymore. I'm not sitting there crying. Sometimes, like maybe every other month, sure i'll have a panic attack or I'll get really upset that an intrusive thought is still there. But the difference is I'm not sitting there every day ruminating over a thought, crying about it. I see the thought in my head and I go, Okay, I know you're not real. Yeah, it really sucks you're there, but I know what you are, and we're going to move on. We're not going to react. We're going to separate this thought from the feelings of fear and sadness that are attached to it and just move on with my life.

So the difference with the lexapro is my physical symptoms are reduced, so I think anxiety and intrusive thoughts are pretty constant. I'm going to live with them my whole life. It is as someone with OCD, like they're just going to stick, and it is what it is. Difference though, is I can have these intrusive thoughts every day and Sure they suck and I'm annoyed by them, but they're not debilitating. So every time I get a thought every day, I'm not panicking anymore. I'm not sitting there crying. Sometimes, like maybe every other month, sure i'll have a panic attack or I'll get really upset that an intrusive thought is still there. But the difference is I'm not sitting there every day ruminating over a thought, crying about it. I see the thought in my head and I go, Okay, I know you're not real. Yeah, it really sucks you're there, but I know what you are, and we're going to move on. We're not going to react. We're going to separate this thought from the feelings of fear and sadness that are attached to it and just move on with my life.

Is that part of the process that you have developed, sort of the tools that you have in your toolbox?

Is that part of the process that you have developed, sort of the tools that you have in your toolbox?

Yeah, I love the toolbox metaphor. It's a toolbox.

Yeah, I love the toolbox metaphor. It's a toolbox.

I know it's so colorny, but it's like there's a visual component to it that I strangely like. You know, it's definitely overused, but you know, because you can pull the wrench out of the screen, I don't know. It's like there's a visual that I like about it totally works.

I know it's so colorny, but it's like there's a visual component to it that I strangely like. You know, it's definitely overused, but you know, because you can pull the wrench out of the screen, I don't know. It's like there's a visual that I like about it totally works.

But yeah, I thought from feeling so that when the thoughts arise, your emotions aren't too attached to them. I think is important. Exercise. I'm a big runner.

But yeah, I thought from feeling so that when the thoughts arise, your emotions aren't too attached to them. I think is important. Exercise. I'm a big runner.

That's huge, by the way. I mean exercise is big. I mean even from a clinical standpoint. When you read about depression anxiety from doctors, from medical professionals, at the top of the list before medication is exercise. I mean, you know, E, diet, exercise huge.

That's huge, by the way. I mean exercise is big. I mean even from a clinical standpoint. When you read about depression anxiety from doctors, from medical professionals, at the top of the list before medication is exercise. I mean, you know, E, diet, exercise huge.

I feel like we hear it everywhere, but it's so true. During the pandemic, I got into running, and I didn't just want to do like a quick three miles like I was a total psycho. I fell in love with running. I thought that when I was out on the road and I was just running forever, everything like went away, all the thoughts went away, if only for like an hour or two, and I craved that feeling. So I was in the Hamptons during the pandemic and it was this long road and I just kept running and running and running until I got to the end. And then I turned back and one day it was like seven miles and I came home and I'm like, I'm going to become a runner. I'm going to run a half marathon. And my mom was so mad. She's like, You're gonna get hurt. This is really stupid and no, no, no, Uh. Turns out I ran a half marathon.

I feel like we hear it everywhere, but it's so true. During the pandemic, I got into running, and I didn't just want to do like a quick three miles like I was a total psycho. I fell in love with running. I thought that when I was out on the road and I was just running forever, everything like went away, all the thoughts went away, if only for like an hour or two, and I craved that feeling. So I was in the Hamptons during the pandemic and it was this long road and I just kept running and running and running until I got to the end. And then I turned back and one day it was like seven miles and I came home and I'm like, I'm going to become a runner. I'm going to run a half marathon. And my mom was so mad. She's like, You're gonna get hurt. This is really stupid and no, no, no, Uh. Turns out I ran a half marathon.

I did get you did I did?

I did get you did I did?

I struck fractured both my shins.

I struck fractured both my shins.

Oh my god.

Oh my god.

Well, I mean I had no training.

Well, I mean I had no training.

Like I was. You just went for it.

Like I was. You just went for it.

I was just going. I was running every day. I was in the wrong shoes, I wasn't cooling whatever. I was destined to get hurt.

I was just going. I was running every day. I was in the wrong shoes, I wasn't cooling whatever. I was destined to get hurt.

She was right, yeah, yeah, yeah, But now.

She was right, yeah, yeah, yeah, But now.

I just ran my fifth half marathon he did Sunday.

I just ran my fifth half marathon he did Sunday.

Oh yeah, my friend Alex just did too. In New York.

Oh yeah, my friend Alex just did too. In New York.

I did half.

I did half.

Yeah he did the half. Yeah right right. We just had the LA Marathon. Was here too last Sunday.

Yeah he did the half. Yeah right right. We just had the LA Marathon. Was here too last Sunday.

Yeah. I saw that.

Yeah. I saw that.

I shall try it. Yes, I mean, but I'm like a three miler, you know what I mean, Like I do it for workout, and I do love it because you do get into that meditative sort of pattern, that runner's sort of focus. It takes me about a mile the first mile. I fucking hate it. Yeah, I'm just like, ah, I hate and then you get into that zone. Yeah, but I'm like you sometimes, well, d now that I'm even thinking about this, it was during my anxiety, I would just go and I would run, and before I knew it, I was like thirteen miles, you know, and then I'm like, what the fuck am I doing? You know? And I still got to go home home, so I'd get an uber home because I was just so in the sort of locked in moment, and then I'd wake up and just my body was devastated. But in the moment, I wasn't even thinking, you know.

I shall try it. Yes, I mean, but I'm like a three miler, you know what I mean, Like I do it for workout, and I do love it because you do get into that meditative sort of pattern, that runner's sort of focus. It takes me about a mile the first mile. I fucking hate it. Yeah, I'm just like, ah, I hate and then you get into that zone. Yeah, but I'm like you sometimes, well, d now that I'm even thinking about this, it was during my anxiety, I would just go and I would run, and before I knew it, I was like thirteen miles, you know, and then I'm like, what the fuck am I doing? You know? And I still got to go home home, so I'd get an uber home because I was just so in the sort of locked in moment, and then I'd wake up and just my body was devastated. But in the moment, I wasn't even thinking, you know.

I actually I write in my book about how when I ran a marathon in twenty twenty two full and I had a panic attack at mile twenty No marathon, and it was just the worst timing. Some like random family member that I don't even talk to, like I'm not trying to be with, was at the other side of the bridge that I had the panic attack on, and he helped me through it, like he stood there and helped me breathe. And it was just the most miserable end to the marathon.

I actually I write in my book about how when I ran a marathon in twenty twenty two full and I had a panic attack at mile twenty No marathon, and it was just the worst timing. Some like random family member that I don't even talk to, like I'm not trying to be with, was at the other side of the bridge that I had the panic attack on, and he helped me through it, like he stood there and helped me breathe. And it was just the most miserable end to the marathon.

Oh my god.

Oh my god.

So I vowed to myself that I would do it. Again one day, I would my redemption. If I got a panic attack, I'd know how to handle it.

So I vowed to myself that I would do it. Again one day, I would my redemption. If I got a panic attack, I'd know how to handle it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I did it again in November and I started to panic at like a mile thirteen and I call my boyfriend and I'm like, this is not about to happen, Like you got to talk me through. This helped me breathe for a mile on the phone and I was like soaring to the ad and I was.

I did it again in November and I started to panic at like a mile thirteen and I call my boyfriend and I'm like, this is not about to happen, Like you got to talk me through. This helped me breathe for a mile on the phone and I was like soaring to the ad and I was.

Great, Wow, So what do you what do you attribute that to? You know, the first one maybe the second one is almost like Pavlovian in a weird way. It's, you know, because anxiety creates anxiety creates anxiety, as you know, right, I mean I have I used to be anxious about getting anxious. Yeah, And that's that's how that's how we roll. And anyone who has anxiety can completely understand that. You know, oh my god, am I am I going to have a panic attack? Am I going to Am I going to be anxious? And all of a sudden that just creates it. So was that sort of the second panic attack was like, you know, I don't want to I'm railing against it so much, and the fuck here it comes.

Great, Wow, So what do you what do you attribute that to? You know, the first one maybe the second one is almost like Pavlovian in a weird way. It's, you know, because anxiety creates anxiety creates anxiety, as you know, right, I mean I have I used to be anxious about getting anxious. Yeah, And that's that's how that's how we roll. And anyone who has anxiety can completely understand that. You know, oh my god, am I am I going to have a panic attack? Am I going to Am I going to be anxious? And all of a sudden that just creates it. So was that sort of the second panic attack was like, you know, I don't want to I'm railing against it so much, and the fuck here it comes.

I think it's valid to be anxious about being anxious. I honestly think it was mile thirteen. I started to get tired, and that made me and because I realized that I had another thirteen miles to go, and I felt like I could lay down and take a nap already. So then I started freaking out. So it did out of nowhere. I was just like, oh, I'm really tired, my legs are starting to hurt. This is gonna be it fish And then it kind of stacks together.

I think it's valid to be anxious about being anxious. I honestly think it was mile thirteen. I started to get tired, and that made me and because I realized that I had another thirteen miles to go, and I felt like I could lay down and take a nap already. So then I started freaking out. So it did out of nowhere. I was just like, oh, I'm really tired, my legs are starting to hurt. This is gonna be it fish And then it kind of stacks together.

Do you do you drink like alcohol or alcohol?

Do you do you drink like alcohol or alcohol?

I don't drink.

I don't drink.

Not crazy, Yeah, well, I mean I do, but but I was just I was, you know, correlating sort of drinking to your anxiety where it can just it can just exacerbate it, you know what I mean. It's horrible.

Not crazy, Yeah, well, I mean I do, but but I was just I was, you know, correlating sort of drinking to your anxiety where it can just it can just exacerbate it, you know what I mean. It's horrible.

Rarely do I drink. Yeah, yeah, not much of a drinker. It doesn't really good help anxiety. I don't like the thaks of it. Yeah.

Rarely do I drink. Yeah, yeah, not much of a drinker. It doesn't really good help anxiety. I don't like the thaks of it. Yeah.

And so you said you have a boyfriend, Yeah, okay, how has he dealt with that or is it even an issue? You know? And I asked that because when I got together with who's now my wife, you know, Aaron, I was twenty four years old, and she was right in the middle of my insanity and she didn't She was very supportive, but didn't understand it. You know, She's like, I don't get it. You know, you come from an amazing family. You know, everything is great in your life, Like, what the fuck is wrong with you? You know?

And so you said you have a boyfriend, Yeah, okay, how has he dealt with that or is it even an issue? You know? And I asked that because when I got together with who's now my wife, you know, Aaron, I was twenty four years old, and she was right in the middle of my insanity and she didn't She was very supportive, but didn't understand it. You know, She's like, I don't get it. You know, you come from an amazing family. You know, everything is great in your life, Like, what the fuck is wrong with you? You know?

So you had to teach her about it.

So you had to teach her about it.

But a little bit. But I had to teach myself too, so we kind of learned together at that point. I had no idea. I'm like, I don't know, like I get that, but I'm here's what. I'm crying in the shower because I can't leave the house. So that's my reality. I don't know why, but it is what it is. You know.

But a little bit. But I had to teach myself too, so we kind of learned together at that point. I had no idea. I'm like, I don't know, like I get that, but I'm here's what. I'm crying in the shower because I can't leave the house. So that's my reality. I don't know why, but it is what it is. You know.

That's so valid. I feel like it's a learning curve with any significant other if you lives with intense anxiety and are medicated for it. I write about this too in my book. I think at the very end when when I met my boyfriend, I told him about it pretty early on, but I don't think he really understood until he saw it. I was having an intrusive thought and I felt so guilty about it that I just like completely broke down, like probably one of the worst panic attacks i've ever had, because I was just humiliated, like here was this first like great love, like someone I could actually see a future with, and I felt so broken and I broke down. I was crying. I'm like, I'm just too broken to love you. He goes, Carrie, We're all a little fucked up, and I'm like that's like, that's so mean. And then now we laugh about it, and I'm like, you are so right, like we're all a little fucked up.

That's so valid. I feel like it's a learning curve with any significant other if you lives with intense anxiety and are medicated for it. I write about this too in my book. I think at the very end when when I met my boyfriend, I told him about it pretty early on, but I don't think he really understood until he saw it. I was having an intrusive thought and I felt so guilty about it that I just like completely broke down, like probably one of the worst panic attacks i've ever had, because I was just humiliated, like here was this first like great love, like someone I could actually see a future with, and I felt so broken and I broke down. I was crying. I'm like, I'm just too broken to love you. He goes, Carrie, We're all a little fucked up, and I'm like that's like, that's so mean. And then now we laugh about it, and I'm like, you are so right, like we're all a little fucked up.

I love your boyfriend, because that's my fucking motto, the same I always say. I was like, we're all fun up. We are all fucked up. Every human on this earth has some sort of issue. We're all fine, you know.

I love your boyfriend, because that's my fucking motto, the same I always say. I was like, we're all fun up. We are all fucked up. Every human on this earth has some sort of issue. We're all fine, you know.

I think it's like a guy mindset, just like easy going. It is what it is. But yeah, he made me stand up because I was like on my knees crying and he like sat next to me, helped me breathe first, and then once I got my breath back, he made me stand in front of the mirror and like repeat like things to myself, like you are okay, Everything's going to be okay. I am. I am like fine, I'm beautiful, I'm special, like and I felt so stupid. But he's so good and he's done a really great job in trying to understand because there is really such a learning curve. Nobody learns about anxiety and OCD in the way that a lot of people experience it, which is in such a debilitating way. He said to me the other day that he saw OCD like represented on TV and it was like the cleaning and stuff, and he laughed at it and he's like, these people have no idea, and he's like, I never would have even thought about that before I met you, Like, thank you for opening my eyes. I feel like I've learned so much. And that's something that I look for in someone, like someone who really understands you and makes an effort to learn if they don't understand. Yeah, I'm very grateful.

I think it's like a guy mindset, just like easy going. It is what it is. But yeah, he made me stand up because I was like on my knees crying and he like sat next to me, helped me breathe first, and then once I got my breath back, he made me stand in front of the mirror and like repeat like things to myself, like you are okay, Everything's going to be okay. I am. I am like fine, I'm beautiful, I'm special, like and I felt so stupid. But he's so good and he's done a really great job in trying to understand because there is really such a learning curve. Nobody learns about anxiety and OCD in the way that a lot of people experience it, which is in such a debilitating way. He said to me the other day that he saw OCD like represented on TV and it was like the cleaning and stuff, and he laughed at it and he's like, these people have no idea, and he's like, I never would have even thought about that before I met you, Like, thank you for opening my eyes. I feel like I've learned so much. And that's something that I look for in someone, like someone who really understands you and makes an effort to learn if they don't understand. Yeah, I'm very grateful.

And what are his problems?

And what are his problems?

I'm like breaking down. I'm like, you're so perfect. Do you have any the other way? Tell me you something.

I'm like breaking down. I'm like, you're so perfect. Do you have any the other way? Tell me you something.

Right, exactly exactly? Please have a panic attack?

Right, exactly exactly? Please have a panic attack?

Yeah, make me go alone.

Yeah, make me go alone.

Well, let's talk about your book. We've touched upon it a little bit, but why don't you just give us a little, uh sort of overview.

Well, let's talk about your book. We've touched upon it a little bit, but why don't you just give us a little, uh sort of overview.

Yes, So my story which I told you. I obviously tell my in the book, but this is a roadmap for anyone who is struggling with their mental health and just looking to feel less alone. I'm not going to tell people why their thoughts aren't true or try to disprove anything. I mentioned in Mindfire that relatability is so much more powerful than reassurance that you get in anxiety. Reading this, I hope people just what are you laughing at me?

Yes, So my story which I told you. I obviously tell my in the book, but this is a roadmap for anyone who is struggling with their mental health and just looking to feel less alone. I'm not going to tell people why their thoughts aren't true or try to disprove anything. I mentioned in Mindfire that relatability is so much more powerful than reassurance that you get in anxiety. Reading this, I hope people just what are you laughing at me?

For No, I'm laughing because I'm connecting with that. It's so fucking true. Relatability is way more powerful than someone trying to sort of fix it or say the right thing, because it's like you don't get it. Yeah, yeah, like you're gonna be okay. It's like, shut the fuck up.

For No, I'm laughing because I'm connecting with that. It's so fucking true. Relatability is way more powerful than someone trying to sort of fix it or say the right thing, because it's like you don't get it. Yeah, yeah, like you're gonna be okay. It's like, shut the fuck up.

Yeah. The number of times my mom has literally said to me, you're fine, it's so yes, Hey, you're gonna be okay, And I'm like, that just doesn't help.

Yeah. The number of times my mom has literally said to me, you're fine, it's so yes, Hey, you're gonna be okay, And I'm like, that just doesn't help.

Na, I know, I know.

Na, I know, I know.

So each chapter in the book is dedicated to a different emotion that you experience when you're going through anxiety or whatever mental health struggle you might have. So there's loneliness, restlessness, I talk about heartbreak, I talk about grief, and losing my grandma for the first time, and how that was unique because I had to attend a funeral while having these intrusive thoughts about death and that sucked. So I talk about lots of stuff, and my main hope is that people read this and they're able to relate in a way that they might not necessarily be able to relate to statistics that are out There really are no people that are my age telling their stories in a raw, authentic manner that people can relate to.

So each chapter in the book is dedicated to a different emotion that you experience when you're going through anxiety or whatever mental health struggle you might have. So there's loneliness, restlessness, I talk about heartbreak, I talk about grief, and losing my grandma for the first time, and how that was unique because I had to attend a funeral while having these intrusive thoughts about death and that sucked. So I talk about lots of stuff, and my main hope is that people read this and they're able to relate in a way that they might not necessarily be able to relate to statistics that are out There really are no people that are my age telling their stories in a raw, authentic manner that people can relate to.

Is it anecdotal? Are you giving your own experiences based on these chapter headings?

Is it anecdotal? Are you giving your own experiences based on these chapter headings?

Yeah, it's memoir, so it's got it like there's a story in every chapter, but also little self help boxes along the way. So I interviewed real life therapists and I have them give definitions along the way of real therapy terms. So depersonalization intrusive thought because, like I said, education is so important. I want to have the relatability piece, but I also want people to learn a little something along.

Yeah, it's memoir, so it's got it like there's a story in every chapter, but also little self help boxes along the way. So I interviewed real life therapists and I have them give definitions along the way of real therapy terms. So depersonalization intrusive thought because, like I said, education is so important. I want to have the relatability piece, but I also want people to learn a little something along.

That's great. And is it geared towards your age group, demographic or is it? Of course it's universal. There's no doubt about that. Anxiety is universal. I mean, as I said, my kid Wilder was seventeen, but he was thirteen or fourteen at the time, and I could relate to it as a forty eight year old dude, you know what I mean. So it spans all demographics, but as far as dealing with it, as far as sort of you know, the way that your outlook from your perspective as a twenty two year old. Is the book geared towards that.

That's great. And is it geared towards your age group, demographic or is it? Of course it's universal. There's no doubt about that. Anxiety is universal. I mean, as I said, my kid Wilder was seventeen, but he was thirteen or fourteen at the time, and I could relate to it as a forty eight year old dude, you know what I mean. So it spans all demographics, but as far as dealing with it, as far as sort of you know, the way that your outlook from your perspective as a twenty two year old. Is the book geared towards that.

So it's catered to people who are going through their adulting era, I like to say, in their twenties. So yes, it's catered to people in their twenties. But to be honest, like, these topics are so universal. I feel like anyone at any age who has anxiety can relate to the feeling of being lonely and feeling lonely in it, or feeling restless or feeling angry. So these emotions apply to everyone. The anecdotes are just from me growing up and twenty something.

So it's catered to people who are going through their adulting era, I like to say, in their twenties. So yes, it's catered to people in their twenties. But to be honest, like, these topics are so universal. I feel like anyone at any age who has anxiety can relate to the feeling of being lonely and feeling lonely in it, or feeling restless or feeling angry. So these emotions apply to everyone. The anecdotes are just from me growing up and twenty something.

That's so great. Pre order the book.

That's so great. Pre order the book.

Yes, helps authors a lot. I will say I'm not making a penny off this book, Like I will straight up, I'm not making any money off this book. I'm literally just promoting the shit out of it because I think it has the potential to reach so many people and help so many people, and pre order kind of helps authors boost their platforms. Yeah, that's why I'm doing this.

Yes, helps authors a lot. I will say I'm not making a penny off this book, Like I will straight up, I'm not making any money off this book. I'm literally just promoting the shit out of it because I think it has the potential to reach so many people and help so many people, and pre order kind of helps authors boost their platforms. Yeah, that's why I'm doing this.

Like mind Fire, it's about the money. Well, then let's pre order this shit mind Fire, reorder it. Here it is, and I show it.

Like mind Fire, it's about the money. Well, then let's pre order this shit mind Fire, reorder it. Here it is, and I show it.

I have it, nobody else has it.

I have it, nobody else has it.

But look at look at you with the photo shoot.

But look at look at you with the photo shoot.

Huh you know who shot this cover. Have you ever seen this next top model? Yeah, Nigel Barker.

Huh you know who shot this cover. Have you ever seen this next top model? Yeah, Nigel Barker.

Oh my god, yeah, I know that guy. That's amazing, so iconic.

Oh my god, yeah, I know that guy. That's amazing, so iconic.

He convinced me not to wear much makeup in it. He could do that. Give me my fake lashes, give me full glam.

He convinced me not to wear much makeup in it. He could do that. Give me my fake lashes, give me full glam.

No, I know, it's kind of great. You're like, make me look sexy as shit in the cover of an anxiety book.

No, I know, it's kind of great. You're like, make me look sexy as shit in the cover of an anxiety book.

Yeah, but he's like, no, no heavy makeup. Yeah, zoom in on your face. We're gonna see like the wrinkle. I'm like, I don't know about that, but sure, no, laugh, we'll settle on that.

Yeah, but he's like, no, no heavy makeup. Yeah, zoom in on your face. We're gonna see like the wrinkle. I'm like, I don't know about that, but sure, no, laugh, we'll settle on that.

Well, I need one. I want to read this, I really do. I've read a million books, you know, on anxiety, but I would love to I would love to take a peek at this for sure.

Well, I need one. I want to read this, I really do. I've read a million books, you know, on anxiety, but I would love to I would love to take a peek at this for sure.

We have to get you one.

We have to get you one.

Yeah, send me one. I will definitely.

Yeah, send me one. I will definitely.

You will get an advanced copy. This is the advanced copy.