Hi am Kate Hudson, and my name is Oliver Hudson. We wanted to do something that highlighted our relationship and what it's like to be siblings. We are a sibling, railval No, no, sibling. You don't do that with your mouth. Revely, that's good, Oliver, Oliver. I honestly, this is Oliver. Hair off before you get into this thing. What yeah, yeah. Yeah. She surprised me too. She just like walked in the house and like, holy shit, and she goes, oh my god. No, like I was reacting to it being bad, but I was just shocked by it. But she cut cut her hair offs like a little bob anyway. Sorry, does she looks so cute? Yeah, of course, it's amazing and her hair reminded me of dumplings all her. I loved this so much. I this was one of my favorite ones that we've done because we really haven't explored the food world, you know, like I want to. And I kept saying, I want to do some chefs. I want to like, you know, I want to get some of my friends on and there because I'm such a foodie and it's a problem. It's why I created businesses that helped me stay fit and act because I just want to eat everything. So we interviewed Hannah and Mary and Chang. They are sisters and they founded the cutest, yummiest dumpling restaurant sort of a shop called Mimi Chang's Dumplings, named after their mama. Yeah, and they started the restaurant using her her their their mom's secret recipe because food was such a big thing in their house and it really brought everyone together, which is why I think anyone who loves food other than obviously the creative nature of creating, you know, new dishes and things like that, but it's really about how we how we bring people together. Their story, too, is great because the way they got into this, I mean they both had like prominent gigs just so far from the culinary world, and it just it's their story speaks to sort of following your love and your passion. You know. It's like, you know what, I don't want to do this, this is what I want to do. I know it sounds crazy, but Mom, you know I'm going to throw away and I'm going to make dumps. That's what I'm going to do. I want to make dumplings. It was so great. Also, you know, look, the food industry is hard. It's it's it's a you're taking real risk, you know, it's it's not an easy industry to be and you you want to be in the restaurant, food and wine business if you really are passionate about food, and they are, so it was it was really nice. Also, you know, immigrant family. I loved sort of this their story of their parents coming to America and and really getting to know these sisters. Also, I just want to say this because you know, I love supporting businesses like this. They do frozen dumplings that you can get that they order. They also do this really fun thing on their website where you can do a dumpling making Uh They'll they'll teach you how to make dumplings so you can get all the dumpling stuff they send it to you and then you can do a class with them. And I think that is just so great and so much fun. So I just before we get into this episode, I want you guys to know that that's available and that you should dumplings. I love dumplings. Yeah, and I'm want to do a sibling revelry dumpling. I think, do you want. We pitched it to that I know, sibling. We got it. There's a chance. There's there's always a chance, all right, So enjoy this wonderful episode with Hannah and Marion Shank Hi. Hi, how are you guys? How are you great? It's like springtime in New York City. So I have a new lease on life, you know, guys, I'm really excited to have you on. This is fun. Likewise, we very this. I mean, we haven't really done much food. This is our first yeah right, yeah, yeah, we've never done siblings and food. It was really fun. You have a very loved dumpling bar. Yes, and and let's just start this off by saying they blew off jobs at like JP Morgan in the financial sector at Berbery, Right, it was like, oh, forget about that. We're going to get into the the food industry, which is and also every immigrant parents worst nightmare. Is that true? Yes, Because historically immigrants go into these service kind of jobs because it's only a job they can really get when they go to a new country, and like their you know, their degrees don't necessarily translate. So our parents thought that we were doing the reverse immigrant dream. And they were very confused by the whole thing. Well, let's start with but let's start with how proud they were of you, Like in the beginning before before the time, yeah, before we were opening a takeout restaurant. As they said, yes, they're like to college, not full time degrees, business degrees and you want to quit. You guys are great at the jobs that you're doing. So they were really proud for sure. And then you know, when we decided we were going to do open our own business, they definitely try to dissuade us from doing it for a very long time. But once that they saw that we were actually all in. And in my mom's words, she said, I thought you were just like playing around, you know, like as a little kid playing with the Fisher toy set, being like, here's some food I made, please enjoy it. And you know, once she saw that we were actually serious about it, they were behind us one hundred and ten percent. Wow, Wow, we're going to go back. We're going to go back to childhood and stuff. But I do want to touch Yeah, let's go all the way back. No, no no, but I do want to touch on. I do want to touch on that really quickly because that takes some balls, you know what I mean, and just to say, Okay, we're leaving it all behind. We're going to follow what we're passionate about. And that's not an easy thing to actually commit to. So how did that come about out? Like how did both of you at the same time, So you know what, fuck it, we're leaving our jobs and we're going all in on this. Definitely, So it was definitely over a period of some time, Like it was an idea that we kind of tossed around for a while. We thought we were going to open up a cupcake shop at one point, and then a donut store before the city was saturated with these things. And then I was actually bringing dumplings to work with me on the trading floor kind of on a regular basis, and people, all my coworkers used to ask me like, hey, can you make some extra and I'll pay for you. It was like, I have a full time job, I have time to be your lunch caterer. And so we realized that this was actually a unique proposition that we had and we couldn't find anything similar, anything close to what our mom was making at home. So we were like, okay, maybe this is what we can do. So we decided to quit our jobs with zero restaurant experience and sign a ten year lead, which is lunacy. Anybody who asked us for advice. We would never break up meg you this. We didn't even do a pop up. We're like, we are all in. You know. It's like all those cliche phrases like if your dream isn't big enough, it doesn't scare you, it's not big enough, and that was completely true for us for years of you know, pondering this idea, and then we said it's either now or never. You know, we're in our mid twenties and you just have to pursue it. And were you happy? Were you happy at your jobs or were you like, I'm done. You know, I didn't like them in the first place. Absolutely, fashion was my dream job, so doing the business side of that was definitely such a pursuit for me and doing years of it. It was about three years of it, and you know, it's like one of those things where you're daydreaming and you keep on not being able to have another idea, but really honing in on this, and it's like you can't stop daydreaming about it. You really have to explore that, and that's what we tell people all the time. People think that opening up but restaurant is super glamorous, and it's really not. So the advice I give them is always, if you are not living, dreaming, sleeping, and breathing this idea, just walk away. And what's funny is we had a lot of friends in restaurants beforehand that said the same thing. And I was always very confused by it, because you know, you look at this restaurant owner, you have fourteen locations. Why would you say this is the worst career ever when clearly it's working for you. And now with you know, twenty twenty vision, it's hindsight. I totally understand why people were saying that. So let's start. Well, first of all, you guys are only eighteen months apart, right, Yes, we're basically Irish twins. Yeah, and who is the old We were just talking about this actually with a twin researcher about I asked her about that, like the Irish twins, you know, eleven twelve, so I'm older. Do you feel that sort of more like twins or not? Really? We both have our individual personalities, but sometimes people like, oh, you know that reminds me of Hannah or down on the when we're walking on the street, someone thinks that like confuses us for the other, or sometimes we end up dressing the same by accident. So it's just like having similar wave lengths and how far apar are you guys in age and a half two and a half basically, and sometimes we dress the same too that oh my god, well definitely when we were younger, I feel like our parents are like, it's a two for one deal, Like if I had a play date, they were like, oh, yeah, take your sister. Did you guys have that growing up? No, but my boys do have three kids, like Wilder and Body they're two and a half years apart. But still that my little boy is his friends are my older older ones friends. And the way it's good because then he grows up more mature and faster, I would think, yeah, he is. He does for sure. For sure. Hannah, you're the but you're the older. Do you have any recollection of when Miriam was born or you don't remember that? Do actually? Oh, but it's kind of hazy. So I just remembered it was it was dark, so it was kind of evening time, and my parents were running around in a mad scramble, and they dropped me off at a family friend's house who was a stranger to me. So I was crying the whole time. They're like, they'll be right back, And that was my first memory. The trauma of having right, not knowing who you were being thrown to. Right, who is this scary? Who is this child being brought into the world where I now have to be with some stranger? Right? Do you remember when she came home? No? I don't. So what is your first memory of Marion? Let's see, Well, they're kind of hazy. I can't tell they're actual memories or it's just you see the photos and you kind of you know, it's transposed onto your memory. We we used to play a lot, you know, we would She was like my shadow, That's what I remember. Yeah, did you guys always get along? We did not. Oh good, Okay, let's hear about the we were Go ahead, Oliver's like, let's just care right about what happened. Where did you grow up? We grew up in Rockland County, New York, which is about forty five minutes north of Manhattan. Okay, so you're like New York kids. Yes, yeah, Suburbia, New York kids, right, and what did you would you come into the city A lot? Yeah, a lot because it was super close. Our dad worked in the city, so we came in all the time, probably least twice a month. So tell us about your mom. She was born and raised in Thailand and then moved to Taiwan. Yeah, and give us a little background on your mom and her coming to the States. So her our story is fascinating. Her dad was actually a general in changkaik Scheck's army, and when they lost the war with China, they went down to fight communists in the Communist triangle, which was Thailand like Burma and Laos. And that's actually why she was born and raised there. And then she moved over to Taipei where she met our dad, and our dad came over to the States to get his PhD. And she came with him once they were married, not speaking the language, not knowing anyone, which I think is incredibly brave. You know, I can't imagine doing that myself there. I actually recently sent our parents a meme in the group family chat, which was our parents are twenty one, moved to another country and give our children better opportunities. I said, twenty one. Do you know what I can cook in an airfier? Yeah? It's so true, isn't it. It's so so wild. What was your what was your dad getting his PhD in? And your engineering? Yeah? Computer engineering? Okay? And then did he get his PhD? Yeah? And where did he get where did he get that from? Where was it New York? U Mass ann Hurst? Oh? Okay, it was worn? And what was mom doing raising her babies? So she enrolled in a bunch of classes at school at U mass And on the first day, I remember, she said, she got a stack of textbooks in a foreign language, and she's just like, I don't know if I can do this. And she was working at Burger King and the cost of the babysitter costs more than what she was making at Burger King. So she just quit and took care of me. Yeah. And and so you grew up in Boston for a while. No, then we moved to Westchester, so we were only I was only in Massachusetts for about two years. And then so Sissy comes along. Now you guys are in Westchester, and and then they started hating each other. Well, no, because I And then so let's talk about your mom and food and like your earliest memories of food, because I mean clearly this your dumpling bar is an extension of how you were raised and the food that you were you know, raised on dumplings so much, I know, I don't next time you guys come to New York, I have to I call him dumps. Don't be offended by that. I love that. Okay, yeah, don't worry. One of our social media things on Wednesday is It's hump Day dump Day, and we said tiger dumpling. But one of my earliest memories of food, I have a lot. So every year, our mom used to take a trip by herself or with a friend for a week or two to just reset, take a break from, you know, her crazy family. And our dad was a really bad cook. So she used to freeze a bunch of dumplings and stay up really night, really late at night, handwrapping them. And I just have really fond memories of like walking down the hall, seeing the light the kitchen on and everything being really quiet while she was doing that, and I'd hang with her for a little bit, and that's a really nice fond memory. Almost meditative in a way. Yeah, it's super meditative. Yeah, that's so cute. Like Mommy in the kitchen making dumplings. Mom is a great cook. She makes good chicken and dumplings. Mom's a one pot wonder cooker, right, so she like she like her growing up it was like an insta pot, but before the instapot, like she just put everything in one pot and like she would like make things happen, right, Nothing would be measured in the fridge and they'd be like, oh, I'll take this, and she'd put it in like maybe I'll put this in there. That's a fish. I respect that less dishes to wash. Yeah, and then and then you know, you just go and it would be on the stove and you'd be like, wow, mom, this is pretty good. Like, I know, I don't know how. I didn't know what it is. I don't know what it is, but it's really good. Isn't it just feeling itself to not have mements and just be able to make things taste wonderful? Yeah, that's like my grandma was, like, it's a bit of a family thing. It's the the whipping it up and making it taste like yeah, but I did. I did cook last night, and I thought I could get away with not measuring salt and pepper. And I was like, yeah, I'm good, and I over salted it beyond Oh really, Yeah, what'd you make? I just made like a chicken with some carrots and some couscous and and I made this. It was It was sort of a panco crusted couscus caramelize some bonnets. And I was like, hey, the Italian, I gotta throw something there. In the back of my mind, I'm thinking I should measure this. I'm like, no, I'm good. Italian ego just like took over and he could have. It didn't work out for you. Higher dose, higher dose. Oh my god, I love this so much. This is, you know, one of those ads that I want people to really hear because I'm passionate about this. It's a spa experience, Okay, the one of a kind spa experience. They've got a whole line of these infrared devices that harnessed the most healing technological advances available. They've got this portable infrared sauna blanket, okay, and it is truly heat like, it's amazing. I purchased a sauna blanket and I have been using it. 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And meanwhile she's like like your mom and your grandma is like putting things together whatever is in the fridge and making lots of like stir by vegetables and meat dishes and the noodles and rice and whatever we want. So actually not whatever we want, because she also made us eat a lot of vegetables that we did not want eat. Oh yeah, that reminds me of every time. Okay, I'm traumatized because she used to pan for a liver, which is I cannot eat that, and she would do you really? Yeah? No, no, no, I love it. I love it. No I can't. She would just like pan try it, and I'd have to sit at the table basically until I finished it. I wish I had a dog that I could slip it, so she'd make you eat liver because it's good. It's good protein. Right, it's like an iron. The iron is you should do a liver dumpage on my worst nightmare. Oh I got a liver dump so liver dumps. You need a nice big liver. I so okay. So did you always appreciate her cooking other than, of course the the livers. Yeah, oh yeah, she's an amazing cook. And she's like quietly savage about it too, because you're like, oh, mom, this is the best thing I've ever tasted. I know, it's really good. How old is your mom? How old was she when she had you? Twenty nine, which was old for our generation. Yeah. I remember thinking that everyone's mom was younger. But I remember in kindergarten we went to public school, and for your birthday, your mom could send some birthday treats for you and everyone's else's mom used to send cupcakes or cake and my mom sent in cutcakes and ice cream, and everyone's minds were just blowne that there were And I just remember thinking, my mom is the best. Yeah, she's older than everyone, but she's the best. Let's go back, let's go back as kids. Yeah, so like when you guys were when you guys were younger, I mean, there are there any other siblings, just you too, So you are clearly put in probably in everything together because you're only eighteen months apart. Right, Yeah, so like you played, did you play sports dance? What was sports together? We played every instrument together, every sports team together, We went together, Chinese school. We literally did everything together. I think. I think that's why we used to butt heads because we never had real autonomy. It was just like, you guys are doing this together. Yeah. Yeah, so how did that start though? I mean, did it start off nice? And then eventually it's like you need to get out of my hair? You know. I can't believe I'm confessing this on a podcast, but I remember one time as kids, I told Mary to put her fingers through like the doorhinge and I shut the door hands obviously. Yeah, she's still money for my piggy bank. And then I did it again, and I remember one of our I think it was my dad, ran over like why are you doing that? I was like, well she didn't learn from the first time. She did it again. Yeah, and it was just like it was like, you know what I'm gonna do now, I'm gonna cut them off. An So we didn't always get along. We did not get along. Did that go for you too, Marian or were you more vying for her attention? It was the same thing where we would butt heads. And you know, there was a time that we had a blizzard in the suburbia and it was six feet tall. We built sports and then I just threw a snowball, like basically like a sheet of ice. There's sheet of ice at my face. It wasn't a snowball. It was a sheet of ice. Yeah. Oh yeah. You guys were like you were like you're I'm gonna take you down. But wait, was was it equally loving? Meaning like yes, it was back and forth? Was it real? Actually like I just I don't want to be with you, like I just can't stand here. I think it was equally as loving, because you know, the second so one picked on her. Her I would step in and be like, no one picks on her except for me. She's my sister. Only I get to pick on her. She was the great protector. Yeah, we were. We were staying at her friend's house once and our friend I don't know started picking on Mary and Mary was crying and we were outside, so I just picked up the garden hose and I turned it on and sprayed her in the face until she started crying. And I was like, no one does that. Hannah. You sound pretty fierce. She is like a shooter. When's your birthday? What's your sign? May I'm a Taurus. You're a Taurus? What about you, Marian? I'm a Capricorn? Okay, interesting, and you're and what about your what about your Chinese zodiac sign tiger, dragon slash rabbit. Oh it's your year this year. It's my year. I've been saying that all Yeah, it is my I'm a sheep, bad, I'm a dragon seventy six. Oh dragon is the best dragons or dragons like the big zodiac of the whole calendar. Yeah, yeah, yes, you're the tiger. It's your year, Hannah. It is so personality wise, like how would you guys describe each other when you were kids, like what was the core issue? And then you know, what did you need from each other that you didn't really get? Well, I think that it wasn't so much that we didn't we didn't get. It wasn't something that we didn't get from each other. I think it was this expectation that we would just do everything together all the time for our parents. So I think having a little more autonomy in this, in the sense of like your own identity, would have been great, even though we loved doing everything together. It's like having that optionality makes a big difference, right. But I would describe go ahead, man, And I was gonna say Hannah as an older sibling, it's like usually the older sibling is like the leader because all the expectations are on the older sibling, and she had to forge her her way versus you know. Hannah will tell you about this as well. But like me, the younger sibling, she she she got yelled at more like I. I the parents were much more lenient on me. She wrote my coattails. Well, did that happen to you, guys? I feel like with the eldest sibling and I have a lot of friends. For our oldest siblings, we ripe about this all the time of like, with your first child, your parents are doing everything by the book and they're making sure and they're like very strict about everything. It's like by the time the second child comes around, they're like, ah, they're not gonna die. Fine, You're just like hello, yeah. But with my kids, I have three kids, it is that way. I mean the first one you don't know what the hell you're doing, and you're like, Okay, I have to do this, I have to do that. And then by the third one is like, oh, she's fine, everything's good. Yeah, right, like it's okay, she's crying in bed all night, Like she'll put herself, she'll pass by herself. Did you guys grow up in a strict household or how was just the everyday life very strict? It was strict for me, It wasn't strict for her. I think for me it was strict. How is it strict? Like you weren't able to go do things? Could you roam? Could you be yourself? Could you be creative? Or was like this is how you need to be? Well? Actually, no, I actually think that our parents are pretty contemporary in terms of Asian immigrant parents. You know, they're a lot more modern than some of our other friends' parents. But for example, I wasn't really allowed to go to junior prom, wasn't really allowed to go to certain parties, which Marian was allowed to later, but you know that was for me. I had to argue with my parents about everything. And I remember, for example, after senior year prom, it was like, I want to go to the city on a party bus and where there's an after party in the city. And it was a whole fight. And then when it was Mary, it's turned to go to prompt. She went to the city and then they rented a shorehouse on the beach, and it's like, are you kidding me? Do you know what they do? Yeah? But after all you're arguing were you allowed to go on the party bus for senior prom and did you get your way or not only only senior year, but I didn't get my wife's sophomore or junior year. Okay, but yeah, you had to argue to go on the party bus, but your argument worked and you got to go. Yeah, But then Marian, it just didn't even matter, like call us Jersey shore. Yeah, yeah, it was exactly like that, so funny, Well do you give them ship about it? We're like, that's what do you the how is this possible? Can you It's not even worth arguing right about this point, like onward and upward, But you know we still talk about that. I wonder too, like growing up being so close in age, like, what was it like with romantic relationships? Was there any Was there ever any like crossover of I mean, not to be presumptuous, I mean you know, yeah, yeah, of you know what gender specific you like, but but like, was there any crossover of No? Never? So one thing I was going to say about Marian is like, even though we used to butt heads, were very very loyal to each other and we were never competitive with each other. There was there was this audition we had for a musical instructor who was like very hard to get into, and the instructor only took Marion and not me because she's like, you're older, you play another instrument, you play sports, you don't have time to devote to another instrument. And when she accepted Mary, I was like, congratulations, I'm so happy you got in. She goes, well, she's not taking me I'm not going to her either, and that was it. So we It's amazing because, like, you know, we were jokingly competitive, but we're not actually competitive with each other. That's so nice. At what point did you guys really come together and you now you're older and it's like, oh, we're not butting heads and we're becoming best friends. You guys seem like you're very close. Now, yeah we are, We're really close. Now. It's after she went to college. It was that's similar with Katie and I. Yeah, oh yeah, this makes the heart grow fonder. Yeah yeah, so yeah, go ahead to ride a passage going to college, you know, you get more mature. And then I'm home by myself and I'm like, oh, I have no one to hang out with. So it's like all these facets, I'm like, I miss her. I want her to come home. And then would just make our mom make us lots and lots of dump things when she would come home, or should drive them to college? Now, where did you go to college? I went to Georgetown? And where did you go? Marian? I went to University of Maryland. Oh so kind of not far. No, it was about forty five minutes. I had so much fun going to visit partying with her friends. Was this doctor the college stucker from high school to college. Okay, so let's talk about how you guys went from JP Morgan You were VP of j P Morgan, Mary and you were an account executive at Birbery. What happened, Like what was the spark when you guys got together and were like, Okay, we're going we're going to do this. What was the like what was that moment for you? And we talked about a little bit, but yeah, it was It was just an idea that we had been kicking around and we thought we'd be fun to start our own business. And we have always been really into food. Actually, when we first opened the restaurant, this guy that used to do a lot of projects with in the underground business schools, like, I remember when you said you were going to open a restaurant by the time you were thirty, and now you've done it, and I totally did not remember ever saying that, So it was really nice to get that message from him. So I think it was something that we had always dreamed about and then we talked about it for two years and you know, it was like, should he get off the pot. We can't keep talking about this, so like, we either stop talking about or we do something about it. So we decided to do something about it. Were you guys food easy? I mean, did you love love food in general? All cuisines? You know, well, plan trips around meals, plan your day around meals, Like, yeah, we'll be aggressive of that food. Yeah, yeah, we'll travel to a destination for thirty six hours just eat good food. But it's gotten to the point where when I travel with Marine, she scares me because we have to go to like thirty destinations to eat and I can't. I can't do that anymore. Yeah, I start treading it, which is terrible. But what was the creative process of figuring out like what it was going to be, and what was your dream and what part of that dream has come to fruition and what where was it different? Where did it actually end up being different than what you thought it would be. So it started off as an idea of frozen dumplings because we thought, oh, we can roll this out across the country and then a lot more people can experience our mom's cooking. And one of our friends made a good point of well, if you don't have a restaurant or a brand, how wild people know to come look for you. So my roommate in college actually her grandfather helped start Raos, you know, the Italian restaurant. Yeah. Yeah, So so here's a little like faith. So she her grandfather helped start the jarred Sauce for Raos. And I was like, oh, we could be like a Raos, or we have one location and we develop a following and then we can do a CpG line like what they did. And then we thought, okay, maybe we'll open up a food truck. And we talked to our friend Luke, who also went to Georgetown, and he started Luke's Lobster and I was talking to him about it and we both were and he was like, I wouldn't go with a truck for you know, a numerous amount of reasons. So we thought, okay, we'll do a brick and mortar space. And then another friend who went to college with us started Sweekree. And I remember at brunch in your city is like, I have this crazy idea. Just hear me out on it. Listen to the whole idea before you say anything. And I told him I thought for sure he's gonna be like, you have no idea what you're doing. You work in finance, and instead he said, this is an amazing idea, and you will love the idea of actually creating something with your hands. You know, it's like something that you can see that's very tangible. And so they were actually launching the First Week Green in New York City. So he's like, you guys have no experience. So Marian quit her job and helps open the First Week Green and no matter. Okay, cool, oh cool. And so then you got kind of like a experience, yeah understanding, Yeah, exactly, hands on experience, the shadow of the manager work the sad line. It was such a rewarding experience and interacting with everyone, it was just so amazing. What was one of the most shocking things that you learned that you didn't understand, meaning like, oh my god, I thought I had this down, but now that I've worked for a minute with Sweet Green's, holy shit. Well. One of it was volume. It was their first location in New York and between their online ordering and in store, they had such a flood of people come in and consumers, which is so exciting for them. But it was just figuring out how exactly to do the workflow and operation. So I think that with all of it said, learning each aspect and just always asking questions and being a sponge with it. What was the vision? The vision was to have like obviously the frozen, but then when you wanted to open your spot, like what did that look and feel like to you? And is it what you thought it was going to be? So the look and feel to it, we wanted people to feel like they were being welcomed into our home because this recipe it's so personal, it's our family's recipe. And also there's nothing more personal right than food. You're actually putting something that I'm making in to your body. So we wanted the feeling to be complete three sixty of your coming into our home. So we decorated it like that. We put on like music that we enjoy listening to, and it was it's incredible and still to be able to walk into a restaurant and actually walk into your dream, it's a really crazy good feeling. Yeah, I would think that would just be so satisfying. Now, your mom, so are these are are they all your mom's recipes? And how did she feel about handing them over not good, not good. It was her way of getting us home from college and like still having like a special piece for us. When she brought to us for work, it was like her special touch. So she of course she didn't use measurements. So when we're trying to open up the first location and not knowing exactly what the measurements were, we had to keep on fine tuning it. And it was from New York's be a a small apartment to a restaurant, you know, scaling up the recipe, and that was the whole learning experience as well. And so she came for opening with our dad and at first they're like, Okay, we're gonna help, you know, help with whatever you guys need, and taste tests of the dumplings and we got the stamp of approval from them, and then our dad. Yeah, our dad also said it was the worst internship he's ever had because they actually booked a one way ticket and I have photos of him just like falling asleep against the wall of the restaurants. He was so tired from like city biking to hold depot to get stuff. And they ended up staying for weeks. And now every time they come they book a return trip for like four days, and they're like, we're only here for four days, and they don't want to get stuck, Like a lot of times they don't want to get stuck working. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so funny. Right for our first location, after we were finished with construction, we had no idea. We underestimated how long it would take to that up after because we had no idea what we were doing. So that's when, Yeah, our dad was really like being hands on and like going home depot every other hour to get things for us and help set up. How do you scale up those dumplings? You know what I mean? Like, how does that work? He said, how do you like to know? We can't share that with you? You have such a specific Recipe's a great ideas well. I think for us it's still keeping a small batch production and being able to quality control and be able to test everything out ourselves first and making sure that it's consistent, and training dumpling wrappers ourselves. Yes, yeah, it's very stringent, Like even to the direction that the meat is mixed makes a big difference. That's all we con convenience. I'm showing all over your Instagram right now. Maybe because the fat. Hmm, you can only go clockwise. I can't tell you. I know, I'm not I'm not not asking. I'm looking at an instagram of your dump, of the boiling dump. Oh look at that. Gosh, aren't you just enjoying? Look how cute? Wow, awesome you guys, I know it's so great. It's so cute. HelloFresh. This is one of our favorite things. We love food deliveries. You know, I mean three kids. I have three kids. Alia has three kids. It makes life so much easier. Hello Fresh. I've been using them lately. I have really been enjoying it. It's farm fresh, seasonal produce, easy to make recipes delivered right to your door every week. And these are like fifteen to twenty minute recipes, I mean, super simple and ingredients. They travel right from the farm to your doorstep in under a week, so they're always fresh. And Hello Fresh. Chefs they really know how to diversify the menu with seasonal recipes like salmon lemone and pasta primavera. You can pick your favorite from fifty different weekly options. You can skip weeks when you travel, or if you need to skip a week if you've know you're going to be going out a lot that week, and you can customize your favorite dishes with their new Hello custom offerings by swapping out one protein or a side for another. I don't want that, Let's put that in in that protein. I want that protein. Oh I want that veggie. Let's do that. You can upgrade, you know, for more lux experience, or you can even you can even add a protein to a veg meal. That means more choices, more variety, and more meals truly tailored to you. Okay, Go to Hello Fresh slash sibling sixteen and use code sibling sixteen for up to sixteen free meals and three gifts. Go to HelloFresh dot com slash sibling sixteen do it right now and use the code sibling sixteen for up to sixteen free meals and three free gifts. It's America's number one meal kit. Mom gave over the recipes their a hit. Now, when did you realize that, like what you went out to create was resident like that people loved it? Like what was the first stamp outside of your mom and dad question? We're like holy shit, You're like, oh wait, like we actually created something that like what we thought was going to be people really love it. Well, it's funny because the first day we opened, there was like five hundred people and we kept selling out and it was so like the energy was so chaotic because we had no idea what we were doing. So we kept closing down the restaurant, putting up a sign that said we will reopen at the hour, just like restock all the dumplings. And it's like we always talked about when someone takes that first bite and they're like and they do the head nod, and we're like, yes, you know, that makes us really excited. Yeah, but I think it's it's really the thing. The thing that's hard about opening a restaurant is your experience has to be so consistent day in and day out. So we're always just striving for that. Yeah, and the day before opening, we were in the New York Times and so that also contributed to the flocks of people coming. So I felt super grateful for that. And just like Hannah said, like guests coming in and giving feedback and compliments, and the best is when there's an NYU student who's like, Oh, this reminds me of my mom's dumplings, and that just makes us so so happy. So someone yesterday just wrote an Instagram that they cried when they took a first bike because they felt like it was their mom hugging them, which was the nicest compliment everyone's ever written. But that is I mean family and food. I mean that is where, that is what created this business for you, you you know, I mean that and the importance of that. I mean, do you guys talk about that? Is there sort of any mission to inspire people to cook black truffle agnolotti stuffed with red wine brais Italian accent coming out? Oh but can we go back to you using Panco crumbs in Italian cuisine. I've never seen that. He doesn't know what he's talking I do, trust me, you got to mix and match. Nothing is uniformed in my life. Pinko bread crumbs and real Italian cooking. You can do Panco an maybe maybe there is. I just know you make your own breadcrumbs. Yeah no, but I put I put parsley, I put some seasoning in them. But like, like, I do what I want to do, and this is why I'm unique. I love that, and we do that with our monthly specials, like right now, are dumpling is a buffalo chicken dumpling. Oh maybe we should do a sibling special. What were you dumpling? I would be I love I would be a shrimpy. I love shrimp. And then I can't even get over what I'm looking at. I know, Oliver, But family and food, I mean, is there any I mean, you know, do you feel is your thing just like good food, good food, good food, that's just what it's about. Or do you have anything where it's sort of like I mean, for me, I know, it's really important to talk about community and like I have vodka. I have a vodka that I love and I do and a big part of that is like how we celebrate with people around us. Do you know, like it's actually a really important thing to cook and celebrate and you know, experience like making interesting on cocktails and having that connection for sure. And I think people in general, people who go into hospitality, especially in places like New York, you want to create a place where people can come gather and they feel safe and welcome. And for us, that starts with our team. Like we promote all of our managers from within our team. Everyone who's a manager has started out just as a general team member. So creating that kind of community and opportunities for people to advance is one of like my life's greatest joys. That's so great and also the hardest part. What is it like working with each other? Do you guys find yourself fighting again? Sometimes when you're it's the beginning. So in the beginning, I feel like and I'm curious to hear what you guys think. But you know, when you get together with your family, everyone kind of falls back into their family role in dynamic, and that definitely it's so annoying, and it's like we're adults now, like we're still vickerat. I don't like that anymore. I walk away. I do so many walk aways now I walk away. I can't deal with it. I'm out. That's a boundary, yeas, like I'm not delving into this dynamic. I've gotten to that point too. Yeah, we were definitely like that when we first started, and we had like a come to Jesus moment conversation where we're like, we would never talk to each other if this was a regular professional, corporate setting. So we have to learn how to separate our sister relationship with our professional relationship, and for the most part, it's been great. Like we don't argue a lot because we also have each other's best interests in mind. Like our interests and our priorities are very much aligned. Yeah, the thing and the thing is we know each other inside and out, and so it's like having that loyalty and always knowing that we have each other's back. So like that's that's the that's the foundation of it. How many brick and mortars do you guys have? Three? Three? And where are they? And then the East Village Nolita in the upper west Side. And then we also ship dumplings nationwide with gold Belly. Oh, gold belly. Do that. Let's get some. Let's get some gold Belly. I know, but it cannot like it's going to be amazing. But in store, I mean you can't beat that. You cannot beat it. I mean these the dumplings you get on gold Beller are still handmade, and it really comes down to how good you are at cooking them exactly. So I get frozen dumplings all the time. My daughter loves them, and so does my middle son, A rider does too. But my but my little ones love the dumplings, and so I'm always getting and trying to find like the best frozen dumplings, but I want to learn how to actually handmake them, so I might have to come over. Yeah, I actually have. We teach. Yeah, we teach dumpling making classes on Zoom with gold belly answer. Yeah. Yeah. So we ship an entire d y kiss you that has the filling premate with the skins and the sauce and scullion pancakes, and then it's a one hour class and then you become a dumpling expert. Awesome. Oh fun. Okay, so did your parents? Did your mom get a piece of this business? I mean, did you give her a steak? She must have a point or two? Come on, yeah, okay, she does for sure, Thank gosh. Mom is named after her. Yeah. She also thought it was the worst name ever. Do you know. Really? Her store name idea was yeah, excellent dumpling House. I love that. Excellent. Oh my god, excellent dumpling you need to make you need that needs to be your slogan, change the excellent dumpling dumpling house, the dumplings You're excellent. Yeah, that should be your T shirt, So excellent excellent dumpling House. I want to meet your mom. That can happen to that. She sounds great. Now is your dad an engineer? Did he end up doing things with? Yeah? So he works at a bunch of different banks and hedge funds, and he wrote, I'll go trading programs. Okay, he got he got me through physics and yeah, he got me like all the major courses. Perfect. Oh god, I don't even know. It's just like that's like, that's like literally Wilder isn't doing algebraight. Now, don't even come to me. I have no idea. I barely know how to add without my fingers. You're like that triangle. Oh my god. When you have a disagreement, how do you handle it? Do you bring someone in to be like the mediator or are you guys pretty good at handling them yourself? Yeah, we handle it ourselves. Okay, Now, what has it taught you about each other running a business together? We have different communication styles, and so you have to communicate in the way that resonates with that person. Just because you're saying something doesn't mean that. And this is good. This goes for anybody, whether it's a team member or each other. It's like everyone has different personalities and and Inggrams and all that stuff, and it's like saying things in a way that will resonate with that person, right, they can actually be attend to what you're saying. So we, along with our gms, we all took like an Intagram test just so we could see what drives people, what motivates people, how do you get through to people? And that's been really helpful. But a quick question about get starting a business together. Did you have a pre talk like we're sisters, we're doing this. We're not going to let money, finances all this shit get in the way, you know, was there a pre talk. No, I don't remember, never worried about. We didn't like an official conversation like that. I mean I went from making like no money in fashion, so I was like, oh, anything's better than this, right right, Yeah, you basically paid to work in fashion. Yeah, okay, so pandemic. Let's talk about the pandemic a little bit. You know, when did you open? What year did you open? Twenty fourteen, so you probably had all the success pandemic happens. I know, personally, I have a lot of friends in the restaurant industry, restaurant bar industry, especially in New York. It was so hard and sad for so many people. How was it for you, guys? Did you? Were you able to maintain with so delivery? We were actually having a record year that year until the pandemic hit, and we actually felt the pandemic hit much earlier than other restaurants because we're an Asian restaurant. You know. People started leaving really nasty comments, like making up stuff that was definitely very racially motivated, which was pretty disappointing because you know, racism terrible, and also we were all going through this together, so it felt like pretty targeted that they would come after us first. And we actually thought about shutting down, and we surveyed all of our team members and we asked them like, do you guys still want to work or do you not feel safe to come to work anymore? And most people wanted to work. So we're like, all right, we have to figure out a way to stay open. And I would say that March and April and May of twenty twenty were I have a ton of white hair to show for it, A ton of white hair. Yeah. Did you feel were you did you feel scared for your you know life? I mean, did you have those moments where you were like, this is actually dangerous for us to be working. Well, we took every precaution to make sure it wasn't dangerous, Like we really tremmed down the team so that people were really far apart from each other, and we had We were actually in Taiwan a month before New York shutdown, and we saw the precautions they were taking, and it just felt different when we were there. So when we came back, we stopped up. We made sure we had plastic gloves and masks and sanitizer and sanitizing spray because in Taiwan they were really regulating and curtailing how much of that you could buy. So we were like, oh, we should get ahead of it in case we're not able to order this stuff, because then we would be able to keep our team safe. Right. And all the hate stuff was that just on just comments on like Yelp and all of these sort of sites where yeh Google in person. I remember I was walking to the Nolita store one morning at ten thirty and this guy was like really accosted me from across the street and I started yelling back at him, and then I realized he was kind of mentally unhinted, so I just ran for it. But then from that point on, we actually bought pepper sprays for our dumpling rappers. Who are you know, they're a little older, their immigrants, they didn't really speak English that well and they were scared to get on the subway. Wow, it was so terrible crazy it is. It's still terrible. I I I wonder in moments like that, like in your restaurant, do you did you find with the pandemic with racially motivated aggression? Like do you find that it brings you guys closer? Like? Did it? Did it bring the team closer? Absolutely? Yeah. We started doing community meals to be frontline workers, and it just gave everyone a new sense of purpose, Like they're like, we need to come into work, we need to help the communities. And it really really brought everyone closer. That's so great. What about growing up you know, just just race in your life and growing up in your parents and you know, is that something you experienced as kids and did your parents prepare you for that? It's not so much they prepared, but there's like distinct I guess, like core memories that you kind of have as kids. I feel like, at least for me growing up, I didn't experience much racism unless we left where we grew up. Because where we grew up, you know, all the same people from kindergarten to you know, basically fifth grade, so there's not a lot of new people. But for sure, I remember one time we were at the supermarket and my mom was talking to the cashier and the cashier started making fun of her accent. And I was so angry because, like, our mom speaks eight languages, and here's this one woman making fun of the fact that her English has an accent. And I asked my Mom's like, are you angry that woman was making fun of you? And she said no, the whole point of language is for her to understand me. She understood me right, Like, it wasn't perfect, but she understood me, So you got to you still have to speak up, even if not perfect. One distinct memory I had was our lunches for elementary school. They were definitely different than other classmates, so I mean, at least in the early years. Yeah, early years different, but some bride Rice, some students would make comments of it, but of course I was just you know, happily eating my food but also wanted lunchables at the same time. Right would I would have been as a little girl, I would have been like, please, Mary, and can I hud your lunch? No, everybody would make fun of it. Oh really I remember, Yes, one time I brought in fried rice and they're like, ew, you got peas for lunch? There are peas in your rights? Oh my god, I give it. And I wanted to die. Yeah, I wanted to die. I guess it's also like, well, I guess maybe New York is different than than West Coast, you know, like for me, Yeah, like for us, there's more Asian people in the West, there are more Asian people in the West Coast. Yeah, I would. I mean, I don't know. I actually don't know what that statistic is, but it feels like it. I mean, right, we're closer, were much closer where major major immigration happened during during Rush. That's right. Oh yeah, so maybe that's true. We have like a much stronger connection to to and all all Asian foods. I'm actually in the process right now with our daughter who because my partner's half Japanese, so Ronnie like we're I want her to have more culture because she doesn't. Danny didn't really grow up with it, you know. It's like he, well, you grew up with your grandma and your grandfather. Her food was on another level. But I won't give anything for Alice's recipes, and they don't and your mom doesn't have them, does she? They're somewhere Yeah, she had them, or she won't share them. There's somewhere there. I think they're hidden. Yeah. Well no she wrote down. Yeah, but she wrote down a bunch of recipes. Yeah. Oh that's such a good idea. We've been trying to do that too. Yeah, and will write them down. Yeah, she won't write them down. Well, then how are you getting the recipe right? I mean you're just taking guesses or your mom goes in there and does it. She gives us the ingredients and then she comes in and she taste tests it and tweaks it. Yeah, so cute, mommy, Oh my god, maybe we should have a family zoom. But how coveted recipes are? Yeah, I mean just generally across cuisine, like old school, handed down recipes. That's why when I look at some people's like uh uh, Like I remember when I got the Magnolia Bakery cook you know, cookbook, and I went to go do the butter cream. I'm like, no, they're lying, Yeah, this is not all the time. We have this conversation all the time. When restaurants publish their restaurants, they're leaving out very specific things. Of course, because like I can follow a recipe right, and this is not remotely the same dish I've had in a restaurant. It's they always leave something out, Otherwise why would you come to the restaurant. I have this thing where I try to get salad dressings because I think salad dressings are really hard to like there's certain salad dressings I love so much, and to try to like recreate them is actually really hard. What's your favorite salad dressing? I mean, it sounds really stupid, but it's my favorite is La Scala. La Lascala has a salad dressing that is literally like my favorite salad dressing. It's basically it's like it's like oil and vinegar. I know, but it's it's it's there is something I've tried so hard to figure out what it is. It's got to be the sugar component. And by the way, consistency is amazing, meaning meaning every one you have tastes exactly the same. It's insane. We're going to need it. Comes to Laska and do some due diligence. Yeah, we got to go into La Food Tours next time. By the way, what what do you guys? What's your favorite cuisine? I know you probably love them all, but like, do you have everything? Okay? I think top three are Taiwanese, Italian, and then it's a toss up between Thai and Japanese. Oh agree, I think I'm with you. Yeah, really, I think it's Italian, you know, because I just love it. It's just the best. I mean yeah, Panco crumbs and all. Yeah, try Panco dumplings. See what happens you guys, oliver Panco dumpling delivered. Oh my god, We'll stick to the shrimp. But so I Italian, and then I'm with you. It's always tie in Japanese. It's like, yeah, Thai love it's too much for me really, yeah, when it gets real real hot. Addicted to the soup, that's my favorite. Oh that's one of our memories from my kid. We were in Thailand and we had the spicy Tommy soup we've ever had. And it was so spicy that I like, I said a spoonful to Marian to kind of like, you know, torture her. And it was so hot that she's so good, I need more. And it was like this, Yeah, when are you going to open a dump store in La Soon? You are? And hopefully, well, we want to open a few more locations in New York before we start exploring other cities. Fine, I had, I had the money for you and everything. I was ready to back the whole operation. Oh yeah, okay, guys, let's do our speed round. Okay, well, let's let's let's do this one last question. So what are we What are you looking forward to now? Oh? So many things. I'm looking forward to continue to develop our team and expand our locations. Great higging back on that, growing our frozen dumpling business. Yeah, oh okay. One word to describe each other. Fierce okay, So Marian, oh say your name before? Oh okay, so I would describe I would described Hannah as fearce, I would describe Marian as easy, gone cute. I could have told you, guys that by this spending this hour with you. Okay. One word to describe your business relationship familial Marian, and I'm saying loyal. Who's boss here? I already know the answer to this. I'm so offended. I know, I know you okay here, but I'm also older. Who's the most creative cook? M I think Marion is, And who's the most reliable cook? Reliable? Hard on? Yeah, both of us actually expanding on that creative cook, Like, how do you come up with some of your concepts? Is it both? Is it just you guys saying oh, let's do this. Yeah, it's between that what we enjoy eating and like you're saying, like, it's about community. So the hospitality industry is like working with their friends and like restaurants you enjoy Yeah, right, Travel, yeah a big Who's who is the more adventurous Marion? Yeah? Yeah, I mean if you're the one who leads you to like thirty different places when you're going on a food trip. Yeah. What is something recently that has brought you too closer together? M I would say a lot of therapy, individual therapy mm hmm, oh good. Becoming way more self aware? Yeah. That Also on a more casual note, we both got pandemic puppies so that's been really fun. Oh cute. Okay, your what is your favorite thing your mom makes? If you had a desert island thing to take with you that your mom cooks, what would it be besides dumplings? Of course? Yeah, okay, I think I would pick. Can I pick two things? Sure? It's a desert island okay. So one of them is a steam thaie fish, which has a lot of cilantro and herbs and fish sauce and lime on it in bird eyed chili pepper, so it's like spicy and sour. And then she makes this really good noodle soup that's a bone broth with tomato eggs and sauteed meat with lettuce and cilantro, And yeah, I gotta get, I gotta go. That sounds like I want. I can mom make that and send it through gold belly? Geez? That sounds so good? Yeah, what about you, Marion? I was going to go. If I had to pick one thing, it would be the second noodle soup that Hannah brought up. Oh, I need that reside. Will she hand that over? For sure? Not? Oh? Okay, So first celebrity crush. Oh my gosh, this is so yeah, this is so embarrassing. First, okay, so this is back in the day of like Backstreet Boys. My first celebrity question was Aaron Carter Wow nick younger brother. Yeah, mine was Joey McIntyre. Oh, thank you. Okay, mine was Devin Sowa. Oh yeah, that's a throwback. He was hot back in the day. He really was. You want to ask the last ques Y, So last question we asked to every sibling on this show two part question. If they're something that you would love to emulate from your sister, something that they have that would make your life a little bit better. And on the flip side of that, what is something you would like to alleviate from your sister, something you would take away that would make their life, make their life a little bit easy, easier, better, moves more smoothly. Oh, this is a really good question. Do people start crying when they answer? Sometimes? Yeah, I could see it. I could imagine that maybe you go first, She's like, I'm going to cry, you go. I am the crier of the family, but I will I will not cry. So one thing I would take away from Hannah or that I admire really is her confidence and boldness in whatever she does and what would you alleviate from her? Ali, that would sort of you think would sort of give her some you know, peace. Yeah. Well, I think that her her sense of protection of making sure I'm okay or like stressing about if something's going to go wrong. I think that that would help alleviate some stress. Yeah, which is like from a lifetime of our parents being like you got to watch out for your sister. You gotta take care her sister, right, Yeah. People an older sibling younger sibling dynamic. So with Marian, I think what I would emulate is her just like her positive, care free outlook. You know, the world is her oyster. That's how I summarize it and the way I describe it issues God's favorite all the time, which is an amazing way to approach life. Right, And I think to take away I don't know, yeah, your God's favorite, not moms, but God. I don't think there's anything that Mary needs to be taken away, like anything that has to be taken away. Oh wow wow Yeah, so you're so you feel that she's really balanced and well, Marin, what would you take away from yourself? And you were like, I wish I could just take this like this and throw it away in the garbage. Hmmm, such deep reflection. She's like, nothing, I'm perfect. Yeah, she's like, I'm perfect. I don't hear that. I think. I think sometimes, like you know, the whole easy going situation. It's like looking out and thinking deeper into like making sure that you have all the necessary resources, or like have an emergency bag in your car, you know, like thinking of all these things ahead times like not everything's going to be positive and great. I think prepare. Yeah, you're right, you're perfect. It's like, why prepare? Who needs an emergency bag when there's never going to be an emergency? Have an emergency bag, you guys. Thank you so much for spending the time talking to us. Thank you so much. Cannot wait to eat your food. Cannot wait. Sibling Revelry is executive produced by Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson. Producer is Alison, President, editor is Josh Wendish. Music by Mark Hudson aka Uncle Mike. If you want to show us some love, rate the show and leave us a review. This show is powered by simple Cast