Hey, Tatiana, kaj Hi, Hey, Hi see everyone. So good to see you guys. And this is actually my first time seeing you both together.

Hey, Tatiana, kaj Hi, Hey, Hi see everyone. So good to see you guys. And this is actually my first time seeing you both together.

Yeah yeah, And I think it's also the time that we've seen each other since Ukraine, like we've spoken.

Yeah yeah, And I think it's also the time that we've seen each other since Ukraine, like we've spoken.

Yeah, it's been a year, right.

Yeah, it's been a year, right.

This is so special and unusual that we can do this episode and have this conversation. We recorded a ton of the conversations with Tatiana when you were in Ukraine. But first, can you just tell me what are your names and what do you do.

This is so special and unusual that we can do this episode and have this conversation. We recorded a ton of the conversations with Tatiana when you were in Ukraine. But first, can you just tell me what are your names and what do you do.

My name is Petiana Fodel, and I am legal counsel at Spotify.

My name is Petiana Fodel, and I am legal counsel at Spotify.

And I'm Kajuars And I'm a former Navy seal war correspondent and journalist. And i am the president of the Guild Foundation, where I do philanthropic work.

And I'm Kajuars And I'm a former Navy seal war correspondent and journalist. And i am the president of the Guild Foundation, where I do philanthropic work.

Welcome to She Pivots, the podcast where we talk with women who dared to pivot out of one career and into something new and explore how their personal lives impacted these decisions. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman. On this special episode of She Pivots, I had the honor of sitting down with Tetiana Podo, a Ukrainian American who's worked since the start of the Ukraine War as a civilian volunteer. Her story is one of the many untold stories of civilians who have helped defend Ukraine against Russia. After immigrating to America as an attorney, her seemingly normal life working for Spotify was uprooted when Russia invaded and her fifty seven year old father volunteered to serve in the war. Compelled to do her part for her country, Tetiana flew to Ukraine and scraped together what connections and resources she had to help her father's unit. Now over a year after, I am honored to bring her story to you. So we just wanted to give a little context to explain how we know each other, how this all came to be, how I almost actually went to Ukraine to interview you. So it started. It started with Kaj Kaj. You and I have known each other for a long time.

Welcome to She Pivots, the podcast where we talk with women who dared to pivot out of one career and into something new and explore how their personal lives impacted these decisions. I'm your host, Emily Tish Sussman. On this special episode of She Pivots, I had the honor of sitting down with Tetiana Podo, a Ukrainian American who's worked since the start of the Ukraine War as a civilian volunteer. Her story is one of the many untold stories of civilians who have helped defend Ukraine against Russia. After immigrating to America as an attorney, her seemingly normal life working for Spotify was uprooted when Russia invaded and her fifty seven year old father volunteered to serve in the war. Compelled to do her part for her country, Tetiana flew to Ukraine and scraped together what connections and resources she had to help her father's unit. Now over a year after, I am honored to bring her story to you. So we just wanted to give a little context to explain how we know each other, how this all came to be, how I almost actually went to Ukraine to interview you. So it started. It started with Kaj Kaj. You and I have known each other for a long time.

Yeah, And then, as as per usual for our friendship, I received a random call from you saying that there's this major geopolitical issue and you know, you're interested in people who might be.

Yeah, And then, as as per usual for our friendship, I received a random call from you saying that there's this major geopolitical issue and you know, you're interested in people who might be.

Involved and engaged.

Involved and engaged.

And honestly, the very first person that came to mind, who had such an interesting backstory and was doing such interesting work was Tetiana, and we had had the privilege of meeting when I was over in Ukraine. We ended up meeting each other in a cafe in Leviv, I think, and in a hotel, hotel where all the international journalists diyed.

And honestly, the very first person that came to mind, who had such an interesting backstory and was doing such interesting work was Tetiana, and we had had the privilege of meeting when I was over in Ukraine. We ended up meeting each other in a cafe in Leviv, I think, and in a hotel, hotel where all the international journalists diyed.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was yes, it was during the early days of the war, I remember, and Cash, I just really want to applaud you because that's when it was very dangerous and very few people were in Ukraine and especially foreigners. I just remember you know that we actually were walking during the air race siren and we were looking for a place where we're going to sit and talk and we couldn't. And then you said, oh, I know one place. There is this hotel or you can sit during the air race siren. And I was like when we walked in there, I felt like I was in a book, you know, like all these war books, except it was reality. I remember we were introduced to each other through mutual connection. Also an American and at the time I was looking for a vest for the vest for my dad's unit, and then you offered some help. So that's how it went.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was yes, it was during the early days of the war, I remember, and Cash, I just really want to applaud you because that's when it was very dangerous and very few people were in Ukraine and especially foreigners. I just remember you know that we actually were walking during the air race siren and we were looking for a place where we're going to sit and talk and we couldn't. And then you said, oh, I know one place. There is this hotel or you can sit during the air race siren. And I was like when we walked in there, I felt like I was in a book, you know, like all these war books, except it was reality. I remember we were introduced to each other through mutual connection. Also an American and at the time I was looking for a vest for the vest for my dad's unit, and then you offered some help. So that's how it went.

And I think Emily was so hard to describe. Is that's how it was in the beginning of the war, Like everybody just moving as fast as they could. You met a random person who knew where some armored vests were being stored, like I had Tatiana send like one of the guys from her dad's unit to go check it out. And like, you know, we fought, and we bought that war with duct tape and dental floss and that's how we did. But it was just kind of the personal connections between people who cared, and I think that's how our friendship started, and just the serendipity of meeting like minded folks I think was actually, Look, the Ukrainian military is the one who has done the heavy lifting in terms of the combat and the conflict, but I think a lesser told story are these thousands of volunteers, both American veterans, American civilians, American Ukrainian civilians like Tetana, and then international volunteers who have acted as a force multiplier to help that effort. And it's it's really pretty amazing.

And I think Emily was so hard to describe. Is that's how it was in the beginning of the war, Like everybody just moving as fast as they could. You met a random person who knew where some armored vests were being stored, like I had Tatiana send like one of the guys from her dad's unit to go check it out. And like, you know, we fought, and we bought that war with duct tape and dental floss and that's how we did. But it was just kind of the personal connections between people who cared, and I think that's how our friendship started, and just the serendipity of meeting like minded folks I think was actually, Look, the Ukrainian military is the one who has done the heavy lifting in terms of the combat and the conflict, but I think a lesser told story are these thousands of volunteers, both American veterans, American civilians, American Ukrainian civilians like Tetana, and then international volunteers who have acted as a force multiplier to help that effort. And it's it's really pretty amazing.

So, Tatiana, why did you agree to do this interview?

So, Tatiana, why did you agree to do this interview?

It's been a year, you know, maybe it's not on the front page of the news, but for me, it's really horrible. It's still my father is there fighting. You know, It's like you never get used to the fact that every morning people you love are in danger. I don't see that much of like personal stories, you know, of regular people where there is a human face to this whole war. Of course, I understand it's natural for a lot of people. I mean for people in Ukraine. You know, at some point it's just like so horrible that your psyche is learning to adapt to this, right, but it's still horrible and it's still going on, and I feel it's really still important to talk about it, talk about regular people who are living with this. And you know, I'm just a person among many, many people. I'm just like an example of many, many people. Because I think this war is really a team effort, a team effort of Ukrainian society. This is our fight together.

It's been a year, you know, maybe it's not on the front page of the news, but for me, it's really horrible. It's still my father is there fighting. You know, It's like you never get used to the fact that every morning people you love are in danger. I don't see that much of like personal stories, you know, of regular people where there is a human face to this whole war. Of course, I understand it's natural for a lot of people. I mean for people in Ukraine. You know, at some point it's just like so horrible that your psyche is learning to adapt to this, right, but it's still horrible and it's still going on, and I feel it's really still important to talk about it, talk about regular people who are living with this. And you know, I'm just a person among many, many people. I'm just like an example of many, many people. Because I think this war is really a team effort, a team effort of Ukrainian society. This is our fight together.

Russian invasion of Ukraine is underway.

Russian invasion of Ukraine is underway.

War in Ukraine has started large scale military drills this morning.

War in Ukraine has started large scale military drills this morning.

And this is a very dangerous moment.

And this is a very dangerous moment.

Stooking fears of an invasion. Ukrainian troops are proving to be a tough underdog clawing back territory from Russia so much.

Stooking fears of an invasion. Ukrainian troops are proving to be a tough underdog clawing back territory from Russia so much.

It's just like, no fear.

It's just like, no fear.

I don't feel anything.

I don't feel anything.

On February twenty fourth, twenty twenty two, Russia invaded Ukraine, another attack after nearly a century of ongoing strife between the two countries, and Tatiana watched from Silicon Valley as her home country fell into chaos. She was there just ten days earlier, driving through Kiev with her father.

On February twenty fourth, twenty twenty two, Russia invaded Ukraine, another attack after nearly a century of ongoing strife between the two countries, and Tatiana watched from Silicon Valley as her home country fell into chaos. She was there just ten days earlier, driving through Kiev with her father.

And I remember when I was driving through Kiev, I was like, is it possible, Well, it's going to be worse. It's not possible. Look at this, Like look at this shopping wall. It's so beautiful, this building.

And I remember when I was driving through Kiev, I was like, is it possible, Well, it's going to be worse. It's not possible. Look at this, Like look at this shopping wall. It's so beautiful, this building.

The life that she had built with her husband in America was about to change forever. After moving to California to gain her Masters of Law from UC Berkeley, ted Tiana had a quiet but normal life in America. What brought her here was an intense interest in democracy that came from her childhood and made the war all the more personal to her.

The life that she had built with her husband in America was about to change forever. After moving to California to gain her Masters of Law from UC Berkeley, ted Tiana had a quiet but normal life in America. What brought her here was an intense interest in democracy that came from her childhood and made the war all the more personal to her.

I've been always very passionate about the rule of law, legal system, democracy, all of these values. I grew up in bos Soviet Ukraine, but it was in independent Ukraine. I always like to say that you know Ukraine and I we are the same age. It was definitely hard times in terms of poverty, but I also don't know anything else than Ukraine. It was my country, so.

I've been always very passionate about the rule of law, legal system, democracy, all of these values. I grew up in bos Soviet Ukraine, but it was in independent Ukraine. I always like to say that you know Ukraine and I we are the same age. It was definitely hard times in terms of poverty, but I also don't know anything else than Ukraine. It was my country, so.

Were people in the US. What did poverty in a post Soviet world look like when you're growing up.

Were people in the US. What did poverty in a post Soviet world look like when you're growing up.

Well, the story my dad likes to tell is that when I was born, they couldn't get a blanket for me, so they stood in lines waiting to buy a blanket for hours and days, and I think some hyway they got it. So I do remember poverty in a way that there was not much choice.

Well, the story my dad likes to tell is that when I was born, they couldn't get a blanket for me, so they stood in lines waiting to buy a blanket for hours and days, and I think some hyway they got it. So I do remember poverty in a way that there was not much choice.

Tetyana clearly remembers the constraints of post Soviet Ukraine from her childhood and later saw the benefits of that freedom for her sister, who's twelve years younger. Those memories, combined with the stories of her grandparents and great grandparents, reminded her that there's so much at stake in this war.

Tetyana clearly remembers the constraints of post Soviet Ukraine from her childhood and later saw the benefits of that freedom for her sister, who's twelve years younger. Those memories, combined with the stories of her grandparents and great grandparents, reminded her that there's so much at stake in this war.

Yes, it's something very painful. And the stories that I didn't really like to listen to, you know, when I was little, because they are very very heartbreaking. So I sort of started remembering them when the war started. And you know how my grandmother she just like when the war started. My grandmother was like, oh, this happened again, but they did this to us when we were little. She actually died this year. She was eighty nine, so she said she experienced the Soviets coming to Ukraine and her family. They used to have a lot of land and the house and they were disowned everything and they were put into a stable while the Russians, you know, we lived in their house, and some of her siblings actually died because they froze to death and were hungry. So it's all sort of muddled in my head. But I know for a fact that some of my great grandparents were in Russian concentration cap gulags. That's where they prosecuted Ukrainians and they called them nationalists because they spoke Ukrainian. So, you know, recently a lot of countries recognize what Ukraine went through in nineteen thirty two. So it was an artificial servation and basically it was not the only ones. So there were multiple ones, and they're called holodo more, which is means death by starvation.

Yes, it's something very painful. And the stories that I didn't really like to listen to, you know, when I was little, because they are very very heartbreaking. So I sort of started remembering them when the war started. And you know how my grandmother she just like when the war started. My grandmother was like, oh, this happened again, but they did this to us when we were little. She actually died this year. She was eighty nine, so she said she experienced the Soviets coming to Ukraine and her family. They used to have a lot of land and the house and they were disowned everything and they were put into a stable while the Russians, you know, we lived in their house, and some of her siblings actually died because they froze to death and were hungry. So it's all sort of muddled in my head. But I know for a fact that some of my great grandparents were in Russian concentration cap gulags. That's where they prosecuted Ukrainians and they called them nationalists because they spoke Ukrainian. So, you know, recently a lot of countries recognize what Ukraine went through in nineteen thirty two. So it was an artificial servation and basically it was not the only ones. So there were multiple ones, and they're called holodo more, which is means death by starvation.

This is the story of the Holodomoor, a man made famine and the worst that Ukraine has ever seen.

This is the story of the Holodomoor, a man made famine and the worst that Ukraine has ever seen.

Famine hit several parts of the Soviet Union from nineteen thirty two to nineteen thirty three, but in Ukraine it became known as the Holodomore, a term meaning death by starvation. It was genocide carried out by a dictator who wanted to keep Ukraine under his control.

Famine hit several parts of the Soviet Union from nineteen thirty two to nineteen thirty three, but in Ukraine it became known as the Holodomore, a term meaning death by starvation. It was genocide carried out by a dictator who wanted to keep Ukraine under his control.

And my great grandmother she was started to death and that's how she died. So she's just like one of the examples of many millions. I think it's like just a one. In nineteen thirty two, it was six million people who died, you know. Then also my grandmother died in June was also she was you know, she was grieving for my dad. For her, it was a shock. Basically, she stopped eating and I think she was just she died of because she felt so sad and depressed. And I guess that's why Ukrainians are now so resistant to this and fighting, because they know this has happened already in the past, and then the history repeated itself.

And my great grandmother she was started to death and that's how she died. So she's just like one of the examples of many millions. I think it's like just a one. In nineteen thirty two, it was six million people who died, you know. Then also my grandmother died in June was also she was you know, she was grieving for my dad. For her, it was a shock. Basically, she stopped eating and I think she was just she died of because she felt so sad and depressed. And I guess that's why Ukrainians are now so resistant to this and fighting, because they know this has happened already in the past, and then the history repeated itself.

We have gunfire and explosions have been heard here and in the second city of Kharkiv. Shortly after the Russian President Vladimir Putin authorized a special military operation in Ukraine's don Bath.

We have gunfire and explosions have been heard here and in the second city of Kharkiv. Shortly after the Russian President Vladimir Putin authorized a special military operation in Ukraine's don Bath.

Russia overnight launched its long anticipated attack on Ukraine, striking military posts across the country. An unprovoked war in Europe is now under way.

Russia overnight launched its long anticipated attack on Ukraine, striking military posts across the country. An unprovoked war in Europe is now under way.

Soon she was back on a plane to Eastern Europe to be with her family after putting in a request for leave to Spotify, which they granted to support her efforts from there. She had no idea the impact she would have coordinating housing for refugees and the movement of supplies to her father, who served as the deputy commander in Ukraine's Territorial Defense Forces since the start of the war.

Soon she was back on a plane to Eastern Europe to be with her family after putting in a request for leave to Spotify, which they granted to support her efforts from there. She had no idea the impact she would have coordinating housing for refugees and the movement of supplies to her father, who served as the deputy commander in Ukraine's Territorial Defense Forces since the start of the war.

And look in the beginning it was, it was really really terrifying. There was active conflict, in combat. You know, we were rescuing hundreds of people a day, helping them get out all women and children from Ukraine from the east to pulland to say, into other European countries.

And look in the beginning it was, it was really really terrifying. There was active conflict, in combat. You know, we were rescuing hundreds of people a day, helping them get out all women and children from Ukraine from the east to pulland to say, into other European countries.

When I got to Ukraine, it was spring. It was about March or April. My husband and I we flew from the US to Poland. It was like we wanted to get my mom and sister out of Ukraine. That was like the most dangerous times. Our hometown was getting bombed many times, and also Belarus wanted to invade Averigion at that time. And it was the first time I saw Ukraine during war times, because the last time I was in Ukraine it was in February and it was just before the war. So, you know, like the atmosphere was very intense. People didn't know what to expect. We heard all of these news from the US and other countries that there might be an imminent war. People didn't believe that there would be a war.

When I got to Ukraine, it was spring. It was about March or April. My husband and I we flew from the US to Poland. It was like we wanted to get my mom and sister out of Ukraine. That was like the most dangerous times. Our hometown was getting bombed many times, and also Belarus wanted to invade Averigion at that time. And it was the first time I saw Ukraine during war times, because the last time I was in Ukraine it was in February and it was just before the war. So, you know, like the atmosphere was very intense. People didn't know what to expect. We heard all of these news from the US and other countries that there might be an imminent war. People didn't believe that there would be a war.

From a national security perspective, there were a lot of indicators prior to the invasion that Russia was going to cross the line into Ukraine. There was intelligence reports, there was troop movements, and there was of course the historical context of what had happened in the Don Boston twenty fourteen and the annexation of Crimea. Despite all of those indicators, I think even among the community of national security professionals, there was sort of a psychological disbelief that there could be another major shooting war on the European continent.

From a national security perspective, there were a lot of indicators prior to the invasion that Russia was going to cross the line into Ukraine. There was intelligence reports, there was troop movements, and there was of course the historical context of what had happened in the Don Boston twenty fourteen and the annexation of Crimea. Despite all of those indicators, I think even among the community of national security professionals, there was sort of a psychological disbelief that there could be another major shooting war on the European continent.

Marking his first full year in office, mister Biden predicted President Putin would move in on Ukraine, but said he didn't think Moscow wanted a full blown war. Our Washington correspondent Gary o' donahue.

Marking his first full year in office, mister Biden predicted President Putin would move in on Ukraine, but said he didn't think Moscow wanted a full blown war. Our Washington correspondent Gary o' donahue.

Reports his troops have essentially surrounded Ukraine on three sides. As many as one hundred thousand are stationed near the border in Russia and Crimea, and now troops and fighter jets have been sent to Belarus to stage military exercises on Ukraine's northern border.

Reports his troops have essentially surrounded Ukraine on three sides. As many as one hundred thousand are stationed near the border in Russia and Crimea, and now troops and fighter jets have been sent to Belarus to stage military exercises on Ukraine's northern border.

The invasion began on February twenty fourth. For months, Russia had been massing troops on Ukraine's border.

The invasion began on February twenty fourth. For months, Russia had been massing troops on Ukraine's border.

Were people do they feel caught off guard? Even though you've been, you know, semi thinking that Russia may move in since twenty fourteen, did it still feel surprising?

Were people do they feel caught off guard? Even though you've been, you know, semi thinking that Russia may move in since twenty fourteen, did it still feel surprising?

Yes? I think it was surprising to all of us, you know, even in February, as we all read the news about the plans, you know, of Russia to invade Ukraine. I was in Ukrainea on the February thirteenth, so ok, ten days before the war. I was supposed to leave Ukraine on February twentieth, but I moved my ticket to February thirteenth because our airspace was being closed.

Yes? I think it was surprising to all of us, you know, even in February, as we all read the news about the plans, you know, of Russia to invade Ukraine. I was in Ukrainea on the February thirteenth, so ok, ten days before the war. I was supposed to leave Ukraine on February twentieth, but I moved my ticket to February thirteenth because our airspace was being closed.

When the war started, Russia invaded from almost all fronts, targeting cities across Ukraine. After the airspace closed. The only way to get in or out was to cross the border. But with active war zones throughout the country, she had to be strategic.

When the war started, Russia invaded from almost all fronts, targeting cities across Ukraine. After the airspace closed. The only way to get in or out was to cross the border. But with active war zones throughout the country, she had to be strategic.

But there's no playbook for how you enter a war zone. You just have to figure it out. In those days, it was the wild wild West, literally the wild walld western Ukraine, and you had everybody like transitting in and out to help.

But there's no playbook for how you enter a war zone. You just have to figure it out. In those days, it was the wild wild West, literally the wild walld western Ukraine, and you had everybody like transitting in and out to help.

When I came back, the airspace over Ukraine was closed. The only way to come to Ukraine was through Poland by car or by bus, and there were not so many people entering Ukraine at the time. It was like people were exiting Ukraine. There were lines.

When I came back, the airspace over Ukraine was closed. The only way to come to Ukraine was through Poland by car or by bus, and there were not so many people entering Ukraine at the time. It was like people were exiting Ukraine. There were lines.

How did you know even those steps of how to cross the border.

How did you know even those steps of how to cross the border.

The actual crossing the border was just the same. We just gave out a passport. They stamped our passports, so you know what. The situation on the border also changed, and I was at that border many many times. So the first time I was at the border during times war times was in early March when I came to the Polish border from the Polish side to bring my mom and sister to balance. Nobody was entry Ukraine and everybody was leaving and there were a lot of people. Well, I was very shocked, honestly, so it was very very cold. My mom and sister were standing in line. There were so so many people, and like you know, all the humanitarian aid and clothes everything and like food, all of these things like that normally didn't like weren't there during normal times. At that time, Ukraine allowed Ukrainians to cross the border on foot. That's not normal, so at that time, because there were so many Ukrainians, so my mom and sister were waiting like maybe like five hours or so. So my mom and sister just had like literally backpack, so we had nothing. So they crossed the border, and we had no idea at that point if they would be returning to Ukraine.

The actual crossing the border was just the same. We just gave out a passport. They stamped our passports, so you know what. The situation on the border also changed, and I was at that border many many times. So the first time I was at the border during times war times was in early March when I came to the Polish border from the Polish side to bring my mom and sister to balance. Nobody was entry Ukraine and everybody was leaving and there were a lot of people. Well, I was very shocked, honestly, so it was very very cold. My mom and sister were standing in line. There were so so many people, and like you know, all the humanitarian aid and clothes everything and like food, all of these things like that normally didn't like weren't there during normal times. At that time, Ukraine allowed Ukrainians to cross the border on foot. That's not normal, so at that time, because there were so many Ukrainians, so my mom and sister were waiting like maybe like five hours or so. So my mom and sister just had like literally backpack, so we had nothing. So they crossed the border, and we had no idea at that point if they would be returning to Ukraine.

At the time, the goal was simply to get her mom and sister out quickly, not knowing what would happen next. Titiana, her mom, and her sister spent three weeks in Poland. After the situation changed, they decided it was time to enter Ukraine, Titiana's first time seeing it since the war started.

At the time, the goal was simply to get her mom and sister out quickly, not knowing what would happen next. Titiana, her mom, and her sister spent three weeks in Poland. After the situation changed, they decided it was time to enter Ukraine, Titiana's first time seeing it since the war started.

At that time, like the border was like almost empty, nobody was there. So that's when I entered Ukraine. When we returned to Ukraine, you know. The first thing I saw was like maybe like once we passed the border, I saw a military checkpoint and that's where I realized, oh wow, this like there is war, you know, in Ukraine, and it's just like all the streets I know so well. And then it's like, you know, I'm like driving through the country and I'm like, oh wow, so people are just like walking on the streets, so that's kind of normal, and I'm like, oh, but then there is this billboard and the billboard features Russian soldiers, and the billboard is like, oh, Russian occupant, you have nothing to find here in Ukraine, you know, like just go back, go back to Russia. I remember my dad picked us up, so it was me, my mom, and my sister, and there was also an American ex marine. I was like, I remember I wanted to buy something at the gas station and my dad is like, oh, it cannot buy a guest like anything right now because there is an air raid siren. And then that evening we just drew to our house and it was crazy because my mom hasn't been in our house since the beginning of the war, and we weren't like like it was very emotional we thought we would never see a house again.

At that time, like the border was like almost empty, nobody was there. So that's when I entered Ukraine. When we returned to Ukraine, you know. The first thing I saw was like maybe like once we passed the border, I saw a military checkpoint and that's where I realized, oh wow, this like there is war, you know, in Ukraine, and it's just like all the streets I know so well. And then it's like, you know, I'm like driving through the country and I'm like, oh wow, so people are just like walking on the streets, so that's kind of normal, and I'm like, oh, but then there is this billboard and the billboard features Russian soldiers, and the billboard is like, oh, Russian occupant, you have nothing to find here in Ukraine, you know, like just go back, go back to Russia. I remember my dad picked us up, so it was me, my mom, and my sister, and there was also an American ex marine. I was like, I remember I wanted to buy something at the gas station and my dad is like, oh, it cannot buy a guest like anything right now because there is an air raid siren. And then that evening we just drew to our house and it was crazy because my mom hasn't been in our house since the beginning of the war, and we weren't like like it was very emotional we thought we would never see a house again.

During this time, Tediana's family had two Americans staying with them who were there to help with the war guests. In her mother's eyes, we had.

During this time, Tediana's family had two Americans staying with them who were there to help with the war guests. In her mother's eyes, we had.

That also American guest, like you know, staying with us for two days or something. And my mom was like what she started doing, She started like cleaning, she started cleaning everything. And the crazy thing I also remember about the evening was like we were like serving everything, like food and everything and everything like kind of looks also normal. But then at that time, like there is like a real air rate siren that you can hear, like I could hear.

That also American guest, like you know, staying with us for two days or something. And my mom was like what she started doing, She started like cleaning, she started cleaning everything. And the crazy thing I also remember about the evening was like we were like serving everything, like food and everything and everything like kind of looks also normal. But then at that time, like there is like a real air rate siren that you can hear, like I could hear.

The juxtaposition of having this almost normal feeling evening, like hosting gas in your home with the beginning of a war outside.

The juxtaposition of having this almost normal feeling evening, like hosting gas in your home with the beginning of a war outside.

Yeah, and that's what still puzzles me, okay, because some people say, oh, like Ukraine, there is just like a normal life here, and to some extent, yes, that's how people stay saying, you know, like go SEEI their family or go buy food. Right, so that's kind of normal. But then all the other things are totally not normal because I'll tell you, you know, I go to the city center and there's like this cathedral there's a price as a ceremony for Dad soldiers from our region. So and you can like you're walking on the street and hear their name. You know, it's like life. I'm walking through the city and there's somebody Dad to fighting, you know, for all of us to have this normal life. So that's how I would describe this the reality in Ukraine.

Yeah, and that's what still puzzles me, okay, because some people say, oh, like Ukraine, there is just like a normal life here, and to some extent, yes, that's how people stay saying, you know, like go SEEI their family or go buy food. Right, so that's kind of normal. But then all the other things are totally not normal because I'll tell you, you know, I go to the city center and there's like this cathedral there's a price as a ceremony for Dad soldiers from our region. So and you can like you're walking on the street and hear their name. You know, it's like life. I'm walking through the city and there's somebody Dad to fighting, you know, for all of us to have this normal life. So that's how I would describe this the reality in Ukraine.

Tatiana was doing her best to do her part to help in the war and first started to help refugees find living accommodations all over Europe.

Tatiana was doing her best to do her part to help in the war and first started to help refugees find living accommodations all over Europe.

I remember I was like just writing to all of my friends like, oh, I have this person, can you please host them in Sweden? And then my coworker from Spotify and Munich also hosted somebody in Munich. It was such a huge startup, and I think this is for all Ukrainians. I just write on Facebook something like, oh I need somebody to buy this and to pick up something there and then and sur randomly, some Ukrainian in Frankfort would go to Frankfort and pick up, like I don't know, something like some T shirts and drive them to Ukraine. As I was in Poland, I was very busy with all of this.

I remember I was like just writing to all of my friends like, oh, I have this person, can you please host them in Sweden? And then my coworker from Spotify and Munich also hosted somebody in Munich. It was such a huge startup, and I think this is for all Ukrainians. I just write on Facebook something like, oh I need somebody to buy this and to pick up something there and then and sur randomly, some Ukrainian in Frankfort would go to Frankfort and pick up, like I don't know, something like some T shirts and drive them to Ukraine. As I was in Poland, I was very busy with all of this.

Soon it became clear there was more to do, and she began procuring any and all supplies needed for her father's unit. It started with a grassroots effort to raise thirteen thousand dollars to deliver over one hundred pairs of combat boots to the front line.

Soon it became clear there was more to do, and she began procuring any and all supplies needed for her father's unit. It started with a grassroots effort to raise thirteen thousand dollars to deliver over one hundred pairs of combat boots to the front line.

So the story with the butts was like, oh, my godmother, she had business partner from whom she bought shoes because she's in this business of you know, she sells sportswear in Ukraine. My dad's unit needed that and she was like, Okay, I'm just going to buy those boots from him, but I need money. So my husband and I were raising money to buy boots from my dad's you need And.

So the story with the butts was like, oh, my godmother, she had business partner from whom she bought shoes because she's in this business of you know, she sells sportswear in Ukraine. My dad's unit needed that and she was like, Okay, I'm just going to buy those boots from him, but I need money. So my husband and I were raising money to buy boots from my dad's you need And.

When you started raising money to buy boots and armor for your father's unit, did you just do that all on your own or was there a sense of within the Ukrainian network of people saying, hey, this is needed, can people go out and get us supplies?

When you started raising money to buy boots and armor for your father's unit, did you just do that all on your own or was there a sense of within the Ukrainian network of people saying, hey, this is needed, can people go out and get us supplies?

Was more like through talking to my dad or to the commander. So, okay, I asked all of my friends in my network and they just like you know, sent money directly to the merchant, and then you know, my godmother picked it up. And then but for something else. It was also like okay, we need to buy this from somebody and somebody just like so it wasn't like through some organization and every project was just had a different structure different people. Like for example, I went to some of the Ukraine Now meetings. It's one of the NGOs with a lot of volunteers, and I just said, oh, I'm here in Bolin region. My dad is in you know, in the Ukrainian Army and they need this and that, and then some lady was like, oh, sure, I can just bring a lot of helmets to him, and I'm like great.

Was more like through talking to my dad or to the commander. So, okay, I asked all of my friends in my network and they just like you know, sent money directly to the merchant, and then you know, my godmother picked it up. And then but for something else. It was also like okay, we need to buy this from somebody and somebody just like so it wasn't like through some organization and every project was just had a different structure different people. Like for example, I went to some of the Ukraine Now meetings. It's one of the NGOs with a lot of volunteers, and I just said, oh, I'm here in Bolin region. My dad is in you know, in the Ukrainian Army and they need this and that, and then some lady was like, oh, sure, I can just bring a lot of helmets to him, and I'm like great.

Her father is one of the highest in command. But before running the Territorial Defense Forces, he was a well known journalist in Ukraine, famous for his sharp criticism of the government.

Her father is one of the highest in command. But before running the Territorial Defense Forces, he was a well known journalist in Ukraine, famous for his sharp criticism of the government.

My dad he also pivoted and he was a real like pivot because he is a journalist, you know, all of his life he's been a journalist in Ukraine. He is like a chief editor of a regional newspaper and worked for many other newspapers and k he got a lot of awards in Ukraine. There is something like a recognized journalist in Ukraine is like the highest award professional award in Ukraine. And he's also part of multiple organizations, nonprofit organizations that work a lot with international media outlets.

My dad he also pivoted and he was a real like pivot because he is a journalist, you know, all of his life he's been a journalist in Ukraine. He is like a chief editor of a regional newspaper and worked for many other newspapers and k he got a lot of awards in Ukraine. There is something like a recognized journalist in Ukraine is like the highest award professional award in Ukraine. And he's also part of multiple organizations, nonprofit organizations that work a lot with international media outlets.

So he had never been in the military before.

So he had never been in the military before.

No, but like you know, he's been forcefully drafted as all citizens of Soviet Union, he has been drafted, and you know, he was in Siberia and he's still traumatized from those times too. He knows how Russia is he when sometimes he tells the stories, it's pretty horrifying.

No, but like you know, he's been forcefully drafted as all citizens of Soviet Union, he has been drafted, and you know, he was in Siberia and he's still traumatized from those times too. He knows how Russia is he when sometimes he tells the stories, it's pretty horrifying.

This was during the time when Ukraine was a republic of the Soviet Union.

This was during the time when Ukraine was a republic of the Soviet Union.

He was a child, he was eighteen years old. All male citizens of Soviet Union were forced to like you know, like I don't even know military service or something. Yeah, So he's like like a regular citizen and just like within the last year he joined the Jory of Defense Unit.

He was a child, he was eighteen years old. All male citizens of Soviet Union were forced to like you know, like I don't even know military service or something. Yeah, So he's like like a regular citizen and just like within the last year he joined the Jory of Defense Unit.

Since we recorded this interview, Tediana's father suffered an injury to both hands that required surgery. Tetiana contacted me to try to use American contacts to get him sent back home, but wars relentless, so they sent him back to the front without time for proper surgery.

Since we recorded this interview, Tediana's father suffered an injury to both hands that required surgery. Tetiana contacted me to try to use American contacts to get him sent back home, but wars relentless, so they sent him back to the front without time for proper surgery.

He continued serving. He does still have some health concerns and I guess. It was for me very surprising when he got redeployed, because we were hoping he would go through surgery. But exactly during the week when he was supposed to go to the doctor, his unit suddenly got redeployed to the east. And that was like really hard for me and shocking. You know, he's been serving honorably for about a year. You know, he's also a senior guy, fifty seven years old. You know, so I don't see I almost never see him. I asked my dad, Oh, so where are you. I know that here's somewhere, but like some approximately where, but like I don't know really where. He doesn't tell us.

He continued serving. He does still have some health concerns and I guess. It was for me very surprising when he got redeployed, because we were hoping he would go through surgery. But exactly during the week when he was supposed to go to the doctor, his unit suddenly got redeployed to the east. And that was like really hard for me and shocking. You know, he's been serving honorably for about a year. You know, he's also a senior guy, fifty seven years old. You know, so I don't see I almost never see him. I asked my dad, Oh, so where are you. I know that here's somewhere, but like some approximately where, but like I don't know really where. He doesn't tell us.

You know, did you feel safe when you went there the few times that you did go to the unit.

You know, did you feel safe when you went there the few times that you did go to the unit.

Yes, I did. I felt like because there's no active back here in our region and you're quite close to Belarus, But it didn't feel that bad. You know.

Yes, I did. I felt like because there's no active back here in our region and you're quite close to Belarus, But it didn't feel that bad. You know.

Belarus is actually an important strategic component of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. First, you have the historically close relationship between Belarusian President Lukashenko and Vladimir Putin. They are allies, and there was always a concern going back to the very early days of the war that the presence of Russian troops and Russian military equipment in Belarus meant that there could be an invasion from the north. There was also always and still present to this day, the threat that Belarus would join the Russian coalition and invade from the northern part of Ukraine. This is really strategically significant because it's always forced the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense in the Ukrainian military to pay special attention to the northern border with Belarus and divide the focus of their efforts and their resources in case that happened. Additionally, it had pretty severe psychological consequences for the Ukrainian people. The Ukrainian population that live in the regions close to the Belarusian border, they have always lived and to this day, under the threat of the idea that there could be an invasion from their neighbors to the north.

Belarus is actually an important strategic component of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. First, you have the historically close relationship between Belarusian President Lukashenko and Vladimir Putin. They are allies, and there was always a concern going back to the very early days of the war that the presence of Russian troops and Russian military equipment in Belarus meant that there could be an invasion from the north. There was also always and still present to this day, the threat that Belarus would join the Russian coalition and invade from the northern part of Ukraine. This is really strategically significant because it's always forced the Ukrainian Ministry of Defense in the Ukrainian military to pay special attention to the northern border with Belarus and divide the focus of their efforts and their resources in case that happened. Additionally, it had pretty severe psychological consequences for the Ukrainian people. The Ukrainian population that live in the regions close to the Belarusian border, they have always lived and to this day, under the threat of the idea that there could be an invasion from their neighbors to the north.

Well, because Key region and the north was invaded through Belarus. All of the rockets are flying from Belarus, and there are Russian troops on the border between Ukraine and Belarus, and basically what's happening there are Russian troops very close by. So that's why our region is like a lot of people are scared. So the thing is that even internal migration, if you look at my internal migration, a lot of people from eastern part of Ukraine migrated to western part, but not so many to my region exactly because of the border with Belarus. And there were like everybody was scared of in Asian from Belarus that they would just do the same they did in Kiev and Chernihiv region.

Well, because Key region and the north was invaded through Belarus. All of the rockets are flying from Belarus, and there are Russian troops on the border between Ukraine and Belarus, and basically what's happening there are Russian troops very close by. So that's why our region is like a lot of people are scared. So the thing is that even internal migration, if you look at my internal migration, a lot of people from eastern part of Ukraine migrated to western part, but not so many to my region exactly because of the border with Belarus. And there were like everybody was scared of in Asian from Belarus that they would just do the same they did in Kiev and Chernihiv region.

The Bielarus Ukraine border has been a strategic location for Russia since it invaded Ukraine a year ago. One of the Russian leaders staunchest allies, Alexander Lukashenka of Belarus, has told the BBC he'd be willing to allow Russia to launch a fresh ground assault from his country.

The Bielarus Ukraine border has been a strategic location for Russia since it invaded Ukraine a year ago. One of the Russian leaders staunchest allies, Alexander Lukashenka of Belarus, has told the BBC he'd be willing to allow Russia to launch a fresh ground assault from his country.

I could divide this last six months to like three stages. Like first stage was like I had, like it was a shock, but like also a lot of energy. I was like I don't know what happened to me, but I was like, oh now I'm going to fight, like I'm going to do whatever it takes. So I didn't sleep and I was working and doing everything the same like you know, when I came here, I was very very active. And then at some point I was depressed. I was depressed. I felt apathy. I just want to cry all the time. I couldn't just understand what's going on when I saw, you know, what's happening to Ukraine, how it's getting destroyed, you know, and every day there's like all of these stare acts. There is only as much you can take. And at some point it was like I just couldn't function. And the third one, I just like started like slowly returning to normal life, if you can say, in normal life, by doing just like this, normal things, you know, a meeting with friends, and slowly just like, okay, now I can focus. I used to read so much and I couldn't read. I started drawing. It also helped me, i don't know, painting, and also helped me emotionally, So you know, it's just like slowly returning to the times before the war. But of course it's like it's something that we'll never forget. Everybody knows somebody who died, everybody. It's like this war is really real for all of us, but people are not scared. If anything, people are very committed to victory. It's like people a grieve whenever something bad happened. It feels personal. I don't know when they drink the toast and they say to victory, to.

I could divide this last six months to like three stages. Like first stage was like I had, like it was a shock, but like also a lot of energy. I was like I don't know what happened to me, but I was like, oh now I'm going to fight, like I'm going to do whatever it takes. So I didn't sleep and I was working and doing everything the same like you know, when I came here, I was very very active. And then at some point I was depressed. I was depressed. I felt apathy. I just want to cry all the time. I couldn't just understand what's going on when I saw, you know, what's happening to Ukraine, how it's getting destroyed, you know, and every day there's like all of these stare acts. There is only as much you can take. And at some point it was like I just couldn't function. And the third one, I just like started like slowly returning to normal life, if you can say, in normal life, by doing just like this, normal things, you know, a meeting with friends, and slowly just like, okay, now I can focus. I used to read so much and I couldn't read. I started drawing. It also helped me, i don't know, painting, and also helped me emotionally, So you know, it's just like slowly returning to the times before the war. But of course it's like it's something that we'll never forget. Everybody knows somebody who died, everybody. It's like this war is really real for all of us, but people are not scared. If anything, people are very committed to victory. It's like people a grieve whenever something bad happened. It feels personal. I don't know when they drink the toast and they say to victory, to.

Victory, Tatiana, thank you so much for joining us and for sharing so much with us. We really appreciate it and thank you. It was a true honor to interview Tetiana over the course of six months. She has since left Ukraine after her leave from Spotify ended, and is living in London. Tetana continues to do her part in the war effort and to help her family. Over the course of these six months, much has changed on the Ukraine front, and hopefully more change will come soon. Since the start of the war over a year ago, Ukraine has put up a hard fight, something Russia did not expect when they first attacked. Unjust and unprovoked actions are against international norms, and through the support of people like Tatiana, the country continues to hold its own. If you're able to give, please consider donating. We have links on our Instagram at she Pivots the podcast. Thanks for listening to this episode of She Pivots, where I talk with women about how their experiences and significant personal events led to their pivot and eventually their success. Be sure to follow us on Instagram at she pivots the podcast and leave a rating and comment if you enjoyed this episode to help others learn about it. A special thank you to our partner Marie Claire and the team that made this episode possible. Talk to you next week. She Pivots is hosted by me Emily Tish Sussman, produced by Emily Eda Voloshik, with sound editing and mixing from Nina Pollok and re surgent planning from Christine Dickinson and Hannah Cousins.

Victory, Tatiana, thank you so much for joining us and for sharing so much with us. We really appreciate it and thank you. It was a true honor to interview Tetiana over the course of six months. She has since left Ukraine after her leave from Spotify ended, and is living in London. Tetana continues to do her part in the war effort and to help her family. Over the course of these six months, much has changed on the Ukraine front, and hopefully more change will come soon. Since the start of the war over a year ago, Ukraine has put up a hard fight, something Russia did not expect when they first attacked. Unjust and unprovoked actions are against international norms, and through the support of people like Tatiana, the country continues to hold its own. If you're able to give, please consider donating. We have links on our Instagram at she Pivots the podcast. Thanks for listening to this episode of She Pivots, where I talk with women about how their experiences and significant personal events led to their pivot and eventually their success. Be sure to follow us on Instagram at she pivots the podcast and leave a rating and comment if you enjoyed this episode to help others learn about it. A special thank you to our partner Marie Claire and the team that made this episode possible. Talk to you next week. She Pivots is hosted by me Emily Tish Sussman, produced by Emily Eda Voloshik, with sound editing and mixing from Nina Pollok and re surgent planning from Christine Dickinson and Hannah Cousins.

I endorse Cheap Pivots.

I endorse Cheap Pivots.