With us this morning is Todd Nettleton from voice of the martyrs, helping us kick off April and consider Bible Month with them. Good morning. Todd.

With us this morning is Todd Nettleton from voice of the martyrs, helping us kick off April and consider Bible Month with them. Good morning. Todd.

Good morning. Thanks for having me.

Good morning. Thanks for having me.

It's always a pleasure to talk to you. Talk to us a little bit. What is Bible month? What what are you guys looking to do?

It's always a pleasure to talk to you. Talk to us a little bit. What is Bible month? What what are you guys looking to do?

Well, one of the things we talk about at voice of the martyrs, one of our three main areas of emphasis as far as helping persecuted Christians, is giving them their own copy of God's Word. And so in April, in particular, we focus on that. We know of 458,000 Christians in hostile areas and restricted nations who currently don't have their own Bible. And we're asking our readers, we're asking the people that we that follow voice of the martyrs, hey, help us provide Bibles for those people so that that's our goal this month, is to raise money for 458,000 Bibles, and to get those out into the hands of our brothers and sisters around the world.

Well, one of the things we talk about at voice of the martyrs, one of our three main areas of emphasis as far as helping persecuted Christians, is giving them their own copy of God's Word. And so in April, in particular, we focus on that. We know of 458,000 Christians in hostile areas and restricted nations who currently don't have their own Bible. And we're asking our readers, we're asking the people that we that follow voice of the martyrs, hey, help us provide Bibles for those people so that that's our goal this month, is to raise money for 458,000 Bibles, and to get those out into the hands of our brothers and sisters around the world.

Todd, is there some way, something special that you do for these Bibles, especially in those restricted areas where it might be dangerous to have a Bible to make it kind of not look like a Bible. Or do they? How does that work?

Todd, is there some way, something special that you do for these Bibles, especially in those restricted areas where it might be dangerous to have a Bible to make it kind of not look like a Bible. Or do they? How does that work?

There are some, some ways, yes, that they can be disguised in some places, the the safest and best way is to give them an audio Bible. Uh, because they, you know, they can be listening, they can have headphones on and be listening to anything, and nobody knows what's going on with that. So in some places it's audio Bibles. In other places we have done some very creative things. Uh, one of my favorite projects ever in Voms history was a book, the the Dictator of a Certain Nation in Central Asia wrote a book. And he actually said at the time that that his book was more important than the Quran. And so everyone in, in my country should have a copy of my book. Wouldn't that be great? And so we actually printed some Bibles, uh, with the first chapter of his book and the cover of his book. And then after you got past that first chapter, it was a New Testament. And it like I say, it's one of my favorite projects ever, because if you would have that in that country, they'd think, oh, that's great, you're following our leader. Oh that's wonderful. And then you turn past chapter one and it's like, okay, let's start out in Matthew and let's, let's talk about Jesus. So there are some creative ways in North Korea. We've actually floated Bibles up over the border attached to helium balloons. Um, so some places we have to be very, very creative. Uh, some places it's not that creative, but it's always a challenge for our brothers and sisters. You know, they don't they don't have a Bible bookstore in their local mall. They don't have Amazon that they can go on and say, hey, send me five Bibles. Um, for many of them, they really don't have a way in their own power of having their own copy of God's Word. And so that's where voice of the martyrs comes alongside and says, hey, we think if you're going to grow in Christ, you need a copy of the scriptures, you need access to the scriptures. That's what we focus on in the month of April. And I would just invite people persecution. It's right up there near the top of the page. We would love to have you help with this project.

There are some, some ways, yes, that they can be disguised in some places, the the safest and best way is to give them an audio Bible. Uh, because they, you know, they can be listening, they can have headphones on and be listening to anything, and nobody knows what's going on with that. So in some places it's audio Bibles. In other places we have done some very creative things. Uh, one of my favorite projects ever in Voms history was a book, the the Dictator of a Certain Nation in Central Asia wrote a book. And he actually said at the time that that his book was more important than the Quran. And so everyone in, in my country should have a copy of my book. Wouldn't that be great? And so we actually printed some Bibles, uh, with the first chapter of his book and the cover of his book. And then after you got past that first chapter, it was a New Testament. And it like I say, it's one of my favorite projects ever, because if you would have that in that country, they'd think, oh, that's great, you're following our leader. Oh that's wonderful. And then you turn past chapter one and it's like, okay, let's start out in Matthew and let's, let's talk about Jesus. So there are some creative ways in North Korea. We've actually floated Bibles up over the border attached to helium balloons. Um, so some places we have to be very, very creative. Uh, some places it's not that creative, but it's always a challenge for our brothers and sisters. You know, they don't they don't have a Bible bookstore in their local mall. They don't have Amazon that they can go on and say, hey, send me five Bibles. Um, for many of them, they really don't have a way in their own power of having their own copy of God's Word. And so that's where voice of the martyrs comes alongside and says, hey, we think if you're going to grow in Christ, you need a copy of the scriptures, you need access to the scriptures. That's what we focus on in the month of April. And I would just invite people persecution. It's right up there near the top of the page. We would love to have you help with this project.

You know, that's something that we do need to consider on my phone. I've got endless versions of the Bible, right? I can change the version and and anytime I want. Next to my bed, there's two Bibles, right? There's the study Bible. There's this other Bible I think you know, anywhere in my house, I could probably go and put my hands on a Bible. So easy. And like you said, I could get one at any time if I want a new one. It's it's fascinating. It's not fascinating. It's it's heart wrenching when you know that there are people who are so hungry for the Word of God, and they have to struggle in order to get it and even put their life on the line.

You know, that's something that we do need to consider on my phone. I've got endless versions of the Bible, right? I can change the version and and anytime I want. Next to my bed, there's two Bibles, right? There's the study Bible. There's this other Bible I think you know, anywhere in my house, I could probably go and put my hands on a Bible. So easy. And like you said, I could get one at any time if I want a new one. It's it's fascinating. It's not fascinating. It's it's heart wrenching when you know that there are people who are so hungry for the Word of God, and they have to struggle in order to get it and even put their life on the line.

I have had the opportunity a couple times over my years at Vom to help deliver Bibles, and when you hand a Bible to someone who has never had one, uh, and they might tell you, I have been praying for five years that I would have a copy of the Bible. Wow. And I I'm like you, I, I, I feel guilty like, oh, I, I have, you know, I have 12 different versions in my pocket on my phone. Yeah. You know, it's it is mind boggling that someone would say no. I prayed for five years. I prayed for ten years. You are handing me the answer to my prayers. It is incredibly humbling. And and I hope one of the things I hope that happens when we talk about this is when you and I pick up our Bibles today. We understand that's a sacred thing. Like like what a privilege that is. It's not just, well, okay, it's my Bible time. I gotta, you know, it is. Wow. I have access to God's word. I freely have access. I'm so thankful for that.

I have had the opportunity a couple times over my years at Vom to help deliver Bibles, and when you hand a Bible to someone who has never had one, uh, and they might tell you, I have been praying for five years that I would have a copy of the Bible. Wow. And I I'm like you, I, I, I feel guilty like, oh, I, I have, you know, I have 12 different versions in my pocket on my phone. Yeah. You know, it's it is mind boggling that someone would say no. I prayed for five years. I prayed for ten years. You are handing me the answer to my prayers. It is incredibly humbling. And and I hope one of the things I hope that happens when we talk about this is when you and I pick up our Bibles today. We understand that's a sacred thing. Like like what a privilege that is. It's not just, well, okay, it's my Bible time. I gotta, you know, it is. Wow. I have access to God's word. I freely have access. I'm so thankful for that.

Wow. Yes. So true. Definitely. So, Todd, there's some distressing news out of India. We've been talking about this before, but this just takes it to a new level.

Wow. Yes. So true. Definitely. So, Todd, there's some distressing news out of India. We've been talking about this before, but this just takes it to a new level.

A new level. I was thinking if I had shared this yesterday, you might think it was an April Fool's joke because it is that ridiculous. But there is the Chief Minister of the state of Madhya Pradesh in India during a speech last month, actually on International Women's Day. So, so celebrating women, celebrating women's accomplishments he made in his speech the declaration that really they're anti-conversion law in his state of Madhya Pradesh should carry the death penalty for encouraging someone to change their religion. Now, he would say forcing them to convert. But as you read the laws, it's like, well, you played Christian music and that enticed someone, or you told them about heaven and that in, you know, bribed them to change their religion. You might think that that, you know, this was a guy who got carried away making a speech. But no, the state government actually issued a statement later that day in support of this idea. So this is not one guy who just had a wild hair and was talking to people and trying to get them wound up. This is the state government of Madhya Pradesh who is now saying we should enforce the death penalty as a part of our Anti-conversion law. As you say, it's a new low and really shocking and fearful for our brothers and sisters there. They're already locking pastors in prison under these laws. I mean, it's not like the law doesn't have any teeth now, but to think that they would consider this advocate for it, and they hold the the levers of power in that state. So it's like if they want to do this, they they have the power to do so.

A new level. I was thinking if I had shared this yesterday, you might think it was an April Fool's joke because it is that ridiculous. But there is the Chief Minister of the state of Madhya Pradesh in India during a speech last month, actually on International Women's Day. So, so celebrating women, celebrating women's accomplishments he made in his speech the declaration that really they're anti-conversion law in his state of Madhya Pradesh should carry the death penalty for encouraging someone to change their religion. Now, he would say forcing them to convert. But as you read the laws, it's like, well, you played Christian music and that enticed someone, or you told them about heaven and that in, you know, bribed them to change their religion. You might think that that, you know, this was a guy who got carried away making a speech. But no, the state government actually issued a statement later that day in support of this idea. So this is not one guy who just had a wild hair and was talking to people and trying to get them wound up. This is the state government of Madhya Pradesh who is now saying we should enforce the death penalty as a part of our Anti-conversion law. As you say, it's a new low and really shocking and fearful for our brothers and sisters there. They're already locking pastors in prison under these laws. I mean, it's not like the law doesn't have any teeth now, but to think that they would consider this advocate for it, and they hold the the levers of power in that state. So it's like if they want to do this, they they have the power to do so.

Is this an attempt to stand against radical Islamic conversion?

Is this an attempt to stand against radical Islamic conversion?

They talk about love jihad in India. When they talk about these laws, they talk about love jihad. And they would describe that as a muslim man marrying a Hindu woman. and then forcing her. I use air quotes for forcing her to change her religion and become a muslim. And so we have to stop this love jihad. They certainly are very aware of Islam and radical Islam. Um, but it these laws don't differentiate. I mean, it's not like it says if you're a muslim, you can't convert someone. It says you can't convert someone. And they're enforced against pastors. They're enforced against Christians as well.

They talk about love jihad in India. When they talk about these laws, they talk about love jihad. And they would describe that as a muslim man marrying a Hindu woman. and then forcing her. I use air quotes for forcing her to change her religion and become a muslim. And so we have to stop this love jihad. They certainly are very aware of Islam and radical Islam. Um, but it these laws don't differentiate. I mean, it's not like it says if you're a muslim, you can't convert someone. It says you can't convert someone. And they're enforced against pastors. They're enforced against Christians as well.

Is there any recourse for the the relationship we have with India to put pressure on them in regards to this law?

Is there any recourse for the the relationship we have with India to put pressure on them in regards to this law?

It is going to be interesting to see what happens with that. We talked last week about the US Commission on International Religious Freedom recommending country of particular concern status for India. We will see what the State Department does with that recommendation. Uh, President Trump and Prime Minister Modi have had a fairly warm relationship in the past, so there is opportunity for our government. Um, and ultimately this is against the Indian constitution. So you would hope that at some point the Indian court system would stand up and say, wait a minute. Our Constitution says we have freedom of religion. You can't do this. Uh, but there are 11 states that have anti-conversion laws, and so far the courts haven't struck them down. So it seems like that hope is not going to be fulfilled. Hopefully there can be pressure brought to bear by the US and by others around the world. Um, because it really is shocking to think about the death penalty for telling someone about Jesus.

It is going to be interesting to see what happens with that. We talked last week about the US Commission on International Religious Freedom recommending country of particular concern status for India. We will see what the State Department does with that recommendation. Uh, President Trump and Prime Minister Modi have had a fairly warm relationship in the past, so there is opportunity for our government. Um, and ultimately this is against the Indian constitution. So you would hope that at some point the Indian court system would stand up and say, wait a minute. Our Constitution says we have freedom of religion. You can't do this. Uh, but there are 11 states that have anti-conversion laws, and so far the courts haven't struck them down. So it seems like that hope is not going to be fulfilled. Hopefully there can be pressure brought to bear by the US and by others around the world. Um, because it really is shocking to think about the death penalty for telling someone about Jesus.

You know, the thing to keep in mind is, is when somebody might be in support of a law that is, uh, trying to restrict or control radical Islamic conversion. Right? We as Christians may be like, oh, yeah, that's a good idea. We need to, you know, do something about that. We have to keep in mind that somewhere down the line, laws that restrict that type of religion can also be used against us to restrict Christianity. And it can happen easier than we would like to think.

You know, the thing to keep in mind is, is when somebody might be in support of a law that is, uh, trying to restrict or control radical Islamic conversion. Right? We as Christians may be like, oh, yeah, that's a good idea. We need to, you know, do something about that. We have to keep in mind that somewhere down the line, laws that restrict that type of religion can also be used against us to restrict Christianity. And it can happen easier than we would like to think.

Yeah, it's a great lesson for us. And, you know, as you as you read these laws or you hear them talk about them, well, you know, we don't want someone to be enticed or bribed to change their religion. And I think all of us would say, yeah, that's that's true. We don't want that. Right. But then you start looking at the fine print, it's like, well, what does it mean to entice someone? And some of the laws literally talk about if they hear music outside of your building and are drawn into your building to hear your message, well, that was an illegal enticement. You need to make your music quieter. Um, so, like you say, it sounds sometimes at the beginning it sounds like a good idea. But then when you're like walking out the steps of what it means and what it actually looks like on the ground, it's like, wait a minute, that's not a good law at all.

Yeah, it's a great lesson for us. And, you know, as you as you read these laws or you hear them talk about them, well, you know, we don't want someone to be enticed or bribed to change their religion. And I think all of us would say, yeah, that's that's true. We don't want that. Right. But then you start looking at the fine print, it's like, well, what does it mean to entice someone? And some of the laws literally talk about if they hear music outside of your building and are drawn into your building to hear your message, well, that was an illegal enticement. You need to make your music quieter. Um, so, like you say, it sounds sometimes at the beginning it sounds like a good idea. But then when you're like walking out the steps of what it means and what it actually looks like on the ground, it's like, wait a minute, that's not a good law at all.

Yeah, this could be dangerous.

Yeah, this could be dangerous.

Todd, how should we be praying for this situation? And is there a way to support the churches and the Christians in that state?

Todd, how should we be praying for this situation? And is there a way to support the churches and the Christians in that state?

You know, I think one of the things we can pray is pray against a spirit of fear. Uh, the the fact that there are pastors in prison right now. Every pastor in that state, every pastor in these states in India that have these anti-conversion laws, they know what they are looking at. They know what could happen. And so praying against that spirit of discouragement and fear and, uh, oh, you know, I don't I don't know if I want to preach this sermon on Sunday. Maybe I need to tone it down. Maybe I need to not, you know, maybe we need to turn off our speakers or close up our windows and make sure no one hears our music. And, um, that spirit of intimidation, I think, is what the enemy wants to happen. We need to pray that that God will not allow that to happen, that he will encourage and build up. There are ways that we can stand with our Indian brothers and sisters. Voice of the martyrs is helping, in some cases helping with legal representation, helping them fight this in court, in other cases helping the families of pastors who are in prison. So we make sure that they have a place to live and food on the table and their kids can stay in school. So there are definitely ways, as you support voice of the martyrs, that we are supporting Indian Christians.

You know, I think one of the things we can pray is pray against a spirit of fear. Uh, the the fact that there are pastors in prison right now. Every pastor in that state, every pastor in these states in India that have these anti-conversion laws, they know what they are looking at. They know what could happen. And so praying against that spirit of discouragement and fear and, uh, oh, you know, I don't I don't know if I want to preach this sermon on Sunday. Maybe I need to tone it down. Maybe I need to not, you know, maybe we need to turn off our speakers or close up our windows and make sure no one hears our music. And, um, that spirit of intimidation, I think, is what the enemy wants to happen. We need to pray that that God will not allow that to happen, that he will encourage and build up. There are ways that we can stand with our Indian brothers and sisters. Voice of the martyrs is helping, in some cases helping with legal representation, helping them fight this in court, in other cases helping the families of pastors who are in prison. So we make sure that they have a place to live and food on the table and their kids can stay in school. So there are definitely ways, as you support voice of the martyrs, that we are supporting Indian Christians.

Before we run out of time, uh, update us on the, uh, anti religious education laws in Uzbekistan.

Before we run out of time, uh, update us on the, uh, anti religious education laws in Uzbekistan.

Yeah, this is interesting because I was in Central Asia last summer and talked to some pastors from Uzbekistan, and this law was being talked about at that point. It actually took effect in February. And what it says is no religious instruction for anybody under 18. In fact, I was reading, even during Ramadan, the police were pressuring Muslim parents who had their children at Ramadan celebrations, breaking the fast. At the end of the day, it's like, wait a minute, that's a religious thing. And you can't do that. You can't have your children there. Christians are very concerned about what this means for churches, what it means even for Christian parents. If you are instructing your children inside your own home, you could be liable. Under this law, you could be literally taken to prison, your children could be taken away from you. And so they are very concerned about what this is going to look like. Like I said, the law just took effect in February. So we're still seeing okay, how do they enforce it? What what parts of it do they enforce? What parts of it don't they. One of the churches, one of the pastors we talked to when I was there last summer, their church has literally built a separate building for all of the children's activities, because if the government comes in and says, hey, why do you have children at your church service? They'll say, no, no, no, all the adults are here in the church service. All the children are in a completely separate building. That's not a church service. You know, that's that's not a religious act, now, is it? Sunday school is is there some religious teaching going on? Yeah, probably. But they can tell the police. Nope. The kids are not in our church service because they have to be able to defend themselves against laws like this one. That's just taken effect in Uzbekistan.

Yeah, this is interesting because I was in Central Asia last summer and talked to some pastors from Uzbekistan, and this law was being talked about at that point. It actually took effect in February. And what it says is no religious instruction for anybody under 18. In fact, I was reading, even during Ramadan, the police were pressuring Muslim parents who had their children at Ramadan celebrations, breaking the fast. At the end of the day, it's like, wait a minute, that's a religious thing. And you can't do that. You can't have your children there. Christians are very concerned about what this means for churches, what it means even for Christian parents. If you are instructing your children inside your own home, you could be liable. Under this law, you could be literally taken to prison, your children could be taken away from you. And so they are very concerned about what this is going to look like. Like I said, the law just took effect in February. So we're still seeing okay, how do they enforce it? What what parts of it do they enforce? What parts of it don't they. One of the churches, one of the pastors we talked to when I was there last summer, their church has literally built a separate building for all of the children's activities, because if the government comes in and says, hey, why do you have children at your church service? They'll say, no, no, no, all the adults are here in the church service. All the children are in a completely separate building. That's not a church service. You know, that's that's not a religious act, now, is it? Sunday school is is there some religious teaching going on? Yeah, probably. But they can tell the police. Nope. The kids are not in our church service because they have to be able to defend themselves against laws like this one. That's just taken effect in Uzbekistan.

And Todd, I just scratch my head over this. Like what would prompt such a law?

And Todd, I just scratch my head over this. Like what would prompt such a law?

You know, we talked about the the factor of radical Islam as we talked about India. That is a factor in this as well. These governments are concerned about the rise of radical Islam, the Taliban. They're they're in the same neighborhood of the world as Afghanistan. They know very well what the Taliban is, what the Taliban did. And so they are concerned about radical Islam. But again, they don't differentiate. It's not a law against radical Islam. It's a law against religious instruction. And so all religions are impacted by that. And that includes our Christian brothers and sisters.

You know, we talked about the the factor of radical Islam as we talked about India. That is a factor in this as well. These governments are concerned about the rise of radical Islam, the Taliban. They're they're in the same neighborhood of the world as Afghanistan. They know very well what the Taliban is, what the Taliban did. And so they are concerned about radical Islam. But again, they don't differentiate. It's not a law against radical Islam. It's a law against religious instruction. And so all religions are impacted by that. And that includes our Christian brothers and sisters.

Would they be more of a secular society then there and you back us down.

Would they be more of a secular society then there and you back us down.

You know, they have sort of the roots of, of communism in many of their leaders were trained under the old Soviet Union. And so they don't trust religion. They, they consider religion as like something that, that you should definitely keep an eye on. You should definitely not trust it. They also, as I mentioned, they're they're concerned about terrorism and and the rise of radical Islam. But most of the leaders were trained up under the communists. And so they have that sort of religion is bad. Religion confuses people. Religion undermines the government. So we want to be careful about how we let religion grow in our country.

You know, they have sort of the roots of, of communism in many of their leaders were trained under the old Soviet Union. And so they don't trust religion. They, they consider religion as like something that, that you should definitely keep an eye on. You should definitely not trust it. They also, as I mentioned, they're they're concerned about terrorism and and the rise of radical Islam. But most of the leaders were trained up under the communists. And so they have that sort of religion is bad. Religion confuses people. Religion undermines the government. So we want to be careful about how we let religion grow in our country.

For so many reasons, for prayer.

For so many reasons, for prayer.

Um, you know, I'm also just really interested with the, uh, protests that are happening in Turkey, Istanbul. We've talked about Turkey a little bit here and there in the past. Any information about what's happening? Um, there as far as Christianity and the church and individuals sharing the gospel there. I don't know if that I know that's not on your list of things. I was just curious if you had any insight.

Um, you know, I'm also just really interested with the, uh, protests that are happening in Turkey, Istanbul. We've talked about Turkey a little bit here and there in the past. Any information about what's happening? Um, there as far as Christianity and the church and individuals sharing the gospel there. I don't know if that I know that's not on your list of things. I was just curious if you had any insight.

Well, it is interesting because we had just a few weeks back, we had a foreign Christian who had been kicked out of Turkey. So in the last five, five ish years, there have been over 150 Christian foreigners kicked out of the country by the government of President Erdogan. The government, which is now, you know, arrested his main rival and is trying to hold on to power as much as they can. Um, the the bad news is all those foreign Christians have been kicked out. The good news is Turkish Christians have had to step up into some of those leadership roles. And and they have done so. God has blessed them and empowered them to do that. And so, you know, once again, and I think we often talk about this as it relates to persecution, the story of Joseph. And you know what you intended for evil. God intended for good. You know, the government certainly wanted to get rid of all this Christian influence. So they kick out all these foreigners, and yet God is using it for good to strengthen the Turkish church and to grow Turkish church leaders in their own country who who can't be kicked out. They live there, they were born there. And so it is turning out to be a benefit for the church. Uh, but it has certainly been difficult for many of those families. You think of, you know, kids who were born there, raised there. That's the only home they've ever known. And now they're told, okay, you have ten days to get out of the country. Wow. Um, it's a hard thing for those families to have gone through.

Well, it is interesting because we had just a few weeks back, we had a foreign Christian who had been kicked out of Turkey. So in the last five, five ish years, there have been over 150 Christian foreigners kicked out of the country by the government of President Erdogan. The government, which is now, you know, arrested his main rival and is trying to hold on to power as much as they can. Um, the the bad news is all those foreign Christians have been kicked out. The good news is Turkish Christians have had to step up into some of those leadership roles. And and they have done so. God has blessed them and empowered them to do that. And so, you know, once again, and I think we often talk about this as it relates to persecution, the story of Joseph. And you know what you intended for evil. God intended for good. You know, the government certainly wanted to get rid of all this Christian influence. So they kick out all these foreigners, and yet God is using it for good to strengthen the Turkish church and to grow Turkish church leaders in their own country who who can't be kicked out. They live there, they were born there. And so it is turning out to be a benefit for the church. Uh, but it has certainly been difficult for many of those families. You think of, you know, kids who were born there, raised there. That's the only home they've ever known. And now they're told, okay, you have ten days to get out of the country. Wow. Um, it's a hard thing for those families to have gone through.

Yeah. Todd, always thank you for, uh, bringing us some information. Everybody can check out persecution.com. Get the information on the latest. Also about, uh, providing Bibles in this month of April. Um, and check out voice of the martyrs radio. Uh, right here on Moody. Uh, buddy, thank you very, very much for everything that you do.

Yeah. Todd, always thank you for, uh, bringing us some information. Everybody can check out persecution.com. Get the information on the latest. Also about, uh, providing Bibles in this month of April. Um, and check out voice of the martyrs radio. Uh, right here on Moody. Uh, buddy, thank you very, very much for everything that you do.

You're welcome. Have a great day.

You're welcome. Have a great day.