The Interesting Intrigue of Margarine

Published Nov 23, 2020, 7:51 PM

This nondairy butter substitute has been embroiled in legal and nutritional controversy since its invention. Anney and Lauren explore the history and science of margarine.

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Hello, and welcome to Savor production of I Heart Radio. I'm Anny Rees and I'm Lauren vocal Bum. And today we're talking about Margarine. Yes, it's a long time coming. I think, oh yeah, yeah. I think I had just forgotten about it, or maybe I was willfully ignoring it. Um, because after we did our Butter episode, I was like, oh, man, Margarine is fascinating. This would be a great topic that's going to take a lot of concentration. So yes, which all came to fruition, all is true. Um. And after we reran our Butter episode, we were reminded that, yes, we have not done Margarine. Nope, and it is indeed fascinating. Um. I was thinking about this. I grew up in a house where we definitely used way more margarine than we used butter. Butter was like what you used in your fancy holiday recipes that everyone's going to eat, but like on everyday basis, we used mostly margine. Yeah, for sure. In my household, we had like a like a big tub of like country croc um that was used liberally for probably everything, um, secure and comfortable in in the in the idea that it was healthier than butter. Yeah, yeah, yeah, which is interesting because we're going to talk about some of the myths that surround margarine and there are a lot and I was thinking about that and how well, well, when we get to the history, you'll you'll realize why. But it's just fascinating that there was all these myths about margarine. And then also this idea because I heard those growing up that you know, like flies can't lay their eggs in margarine or whatever, but I also still somehow thought it was healthier. Well it makes sense, It makes sense in a way until you realize everything that's going on. Um. But uh, I guess, I guess this brings us to our question, Yes, and a good one. It is. What is it? Well? Uh, Margarine is a type of non milk fat oil product UM that is manufactured to be solid at room temperature so that it can be used in baking and as a spread or topping at the table. It's an alternative to or substitute for butter um these days. It's usually made with plant derived oils, but it can be made with animal oils to nothing saying it can't um And okay, so so the thing the thing about fats is that they are generally liquid at room temperature um, which is also tasty, but like not really a spread as much as an ooze or a seep you know, hard to take like a knife full and like spread it on your bread. See fit on there? Yeah yeah yeah yeah. Also it's it's less good for baking than a solid fat because a solid ish structure um of a fat will interact with stuff like flour and sugar differently than a liquid oil will, allowing you to create baked goods with various textures. Um see above. We are that that croissant email that we got in Yeah, um but okay, so butter. It's physically really interesting because because the fats and cream, when you cool them down just a little, like down to like fifty fahrenheit ten celsius, you know, like enough that like you want to jacket, but you're not like super mad about how cold it is. Yeah. Um, those fats in in cream will start solidifying and let's go from a liquid form into a crystal form that the remaining liquid fats will want to stick to. And it's that natural ability of milk fats to form the semi crystalline structure when you cool and churn them that makes butter solid and spreadable at room temperature. In order to convince other kinds of fats to do this, it takes a little bit more work. And there are two processes that that scientists have come up with to make it happen, hydrogenation and interest terrification. And I think I'm saying that right. I did try to look it up anyway. Um, hydrogenation was the original, Um, interest terrification is newer. And all right, y'all. I'm not a chemist, I'm not a food scientist, I'm not any other kind of of accredited science human. But but here here's how I understand these two processes to work. And and this will be important for a number of reasons. So so so come come with me, Come with me on this h on this journey, shoddy chemistry journey. Okay, alright, So, in in both of these two processes, what you're trying to do is bring these unsaturated, these liquid fats into a state of saturation. Um, you're making them harder. You're you're raising the temperature at which they want to be liquid to above room temperature so that they remain solid at room temperature. Yeah, um, Okay. In hydrogenation, this involves passing hydrogen through the liquid oil in the presence of some kind of catalyst that's going to encourage some of those hydrogen atoms to form bonds with some of the hydrocarbon molecules in the oil, um, which will change the chemical structure, which will raise that melting point. Okay, all right. In interest terrification, UM, you're you're rearranging or replacing some of the some of the bits and bobs within a fat molecule. UM, specifically the the fatty acids that are attached to the kind of glycerol backbone of the fat molecule. Okay, um. And so you can you can do this either chemically or with enzymes. But what you're aiming for is to, yeah, to reform that fat molecule so that it will have that higher melting point, but to do it sort of like sort of like gently using the properties of different fatty acids rather than like really mucking with those acids themselves. All right, And this is where my understanding starts to break down. Um. But but if I am getting this correctly, in hydrogenation, you're you're changing the chemical structures of the fats to to let them pack together more effectively making them less slippy and harder, Okay, Whereas in interest terrification you're changing the physical structure, which has the same effect but is preferred for a reason that I will get to in just a moment um. But in the meanwhile, in either case, um, you're you're going to wind up with some solid fats that you can then blend with other ingredients um water fillers and texturizers, flavorings and colorings to create a product um that used to be this liquid oil and is now a solid at room temperature fat that has a creamy texture and is anywhere from like stick firm to tub spread herble and tastes buttery um and probably looks uh like cream too yellow in color like butter, but with no dairy fat involved. Mm hmmmmmm. Wow that was a roller coaster than You're welcome, um, any anyone who who would this is look, I read a lot about this. Again, I'm not technically a science human. I was an English major, y'all. So so like so like, if I'm misunderstanding something, please do right in and let me know. I would love to. I would love to air a correction if if a correction is out there to be had. Yes, But now I must throw an even trick your question perhaps that what about the nutrition? Okay, this one, well, okay, it seems turkey on the surface, but it's actually easier once you understand even even just the bare amount that I do about hydrogenation and interest terrification. Because and this is why I talked about it, Because so, so, margarine is not a monolith. Um. The nutrition can depend because you can make margarine out of many different kinds of oils using either of these processes, and you can use all kinds of different flavorings and fillers to get the taste in the texture just right. So so this is gonna come down as it often does. To read your labels, m hmmm. Because fat is not a monolith either. Um. Vegetable oil is generally healthier than animal fats because vegetable oils tend to lower your bad l d L lipoprotein levels and raise your your good HDL lipoprotein levels. UM. And it's it's healthier than animal fats because animal fats tend to raise levels of both. Okay, the problem with hydrogenation is that it creates trans fats within the vegetable oil, and these trans fats are the very thing that helps hydrogenated oil packed together into a solid form, which seems cool. But the problem is that in our bodies, trans fats lower your good HDLs and raise your bad l d l s and that is just nothing that you want. No um so so so basically, the very thing that makes hydrogenation work also makes brings those oils from like healthier than animal fats to less healthy than animal fats. Right oops? Who indeed? So in all cases, margarine is like a calorie dense food. Probably, um, you know, there are different fat percentages on the market. Read your labels, you know, always watch your serving sizes. But that being said, um, you would be doing yourself a favor if you are going to consume margarine to look for margarine's that do not contain trans fats. Um. You can. You can look on the label for either trans fats or hydrogenated oils listed there and those are what you want to avoid. Um. And uh yeah, and yeah, there you go. There is butter Claire as butter. Um. We do have some numbers for you, we do. Americans consume about three point five pounds of margarine a year, compared to five point six pounds of butter. And this is pretty recent. We talked about that in our Butter episode, that butter is having a bit of a comeback at a moment, especially when we have had these conversations around trans fat and what is healthier and all of that. Um So, the consumption of margarine has you'll you'll see and we'll talk about in our history section. And like Marjorine edging out butter and then udging out marjarine. Yeah, yeah, that's back and forth. Although the commercial process used these days, given this whole revelation about trans fat, is the interest rification that does not create them. So most of most, most of the time, yes, yes, um in America's top Marjarine brand, I can't believe it's not butter. Exclamation point sold about two hundred million dollars. It's funny because in my house, I feel like we had we had the big country croc tub, but then we had spray butter. It's not butter, Yeah, mix it up. Sure, Oh gosh, spray butter in a can. I hadn't even I didn't even ought about that in a very long time. It was hugely popular in my house. My little brother specially loved it. And it was just the sight to behold like him just liberally sprang this like corn cop and then like he had a whole method for how to get it to come out faster. Wow. Yeah he knew, he knew what he was doing. Hey yeah, well, anyway, enough about that. From now, we do have a lot of history to cover. We do, we do, but first we've got a quick break for which from our sponsor and we're back. Thank you sponsors. So Marjarine's history officially begins in eighteen sixty nine France, our France, I should just say France. At the time, the Franco Prussian War was in full swing and Napoleon the Third offered a reward for anyone who could develop a cheaper butter alternative for the soldiers and workers. And it fascinates me how many times this has been in our history sections, where Napoleon was like, here's a reward, go invent this thing. I needed, Yes, I needed to feed my my hordes of armies. Like go um so enter French chemist Hippolite mag Montes, who patented a combination of beef, tallow and churned milk as a cheaper substitute for butter. Called Oleo margarine. However, it wasn't as successful as Napoleon hoped. Are Maje Maries who died poor uh. This pattern was later purchased by Urigans and Company in eighteen seventy one, a Dutch company that traded butter um, and they were largely responsible for making it mainstream in Europe. Urgans and Code would go on to become a part of Unilever. By the Way UH. That same year eighteen seventy one, in the United States, hind W. Bradley patented the process of producing margarine using vegetable oil. The name came from an eighteen thirteen discovery of a new fatty acid by French scientist Michelle Eugene Chevrol. He observed this acid had these deposits that reminded him of pearls, so he named it a seed majorik, after the Greek word for pearly. Yeah. Margarine made its way to the US in the eighteen seven News Yes Uh, and ten years later they were over thirty seven companies making it. One constraint margarine producers faced was the availability or not of beef tallow. To solve this, Wilhelm Normand patented a process for hydrogen ating oils and therefore hardening them in Germany and nineteen o two giving us trans fatty acids or trans fats and yes, has had a huge impact on the margarine market, significantly increasing it's available. Yes. Um. Meanwhile, uh, in the nineteen twenties we would get the very beginning of interest terrification science. Um, but it was not applied to margarine quite yet. I love that words so much, Lauren. I had never heard of it until this very recording, and I adore it. I hope it means that it's very interesting, although it probably doesn't inter esther ification. So you're you're you're, you're getting the esters and you're entering them around and about. Yeah, I mean, it would be so much better though, even if it would make sense if it was, like, this is really interesting process, so we called it interestification or whatever. Who do we write to? But of course if they had done that, then are frequent complaint as podcasts is why doesn't the word for this makes sense? I don't know. Never happy food, we're not We're not continually dissatisfied. That's us, Yes, that's us. Okay, So switching gears, the Great Depression of the early nineteen thirties bolstered the margin industry to both because margin was cheaper than butter and there was a shortage of animal fats at the time. And also around this time, margine was kind of an unappealing shade of white I heard, like grayish white. Maybe, like just a not super appetizing looking thing. So some clever producers of margarine started adding yellow dye to make it appear more like butter. World War two has required rationing of butter also boosted margarine's sales. M hmmm um, although I will say that I believe it was by this time that butter was also not infrequently dyed yellow or yellower. Yeah. I believe that is true because that is a part of the natural process of cows that have eaten a lot of fresh grass rather than dry hay um, getting those carotenoids into their milk. Anyway, Yeah, which is something I didn't know, but we fascinated me and made total sense when I learned. Oh yeah, yeah, it's also yeah, why um cheddar cheese is frequently dyed orange because that's a concentration of those carotenoids. Um. But that's getting away from margine back to margine. UM. In the nineteen sixties, the aforementioned Union lever began using this interest terrification for margarine and other cooking fats like shortening rights, and a margine star was on the US, so much so that by nineteen sixty nine, margine production in Europe and the US almost equalled that of butter. A little bit earlier, in nineteen sixty four, diet margarine with half the calories was introduced in the United States. At first, the FDA balked at this product, but they lost their court case against it when it was ruled a table spread product um to be classified as diet margine, the product had to contain either half the calories or fat, right, because because the full fat product. So yeah, yes, um, and I throw that in there because apparently there were a lot of things that weren't quite that and they're not qualify as margarine, but they're very similar. Um. But Okay. You know who didn't like all of this. The butter industry. Oh no, oh no, they did not. UM. Wisconsin past the first anti margarine law in one and over the course of the nineteen century, butter producers successfully lobbied US Congress to level a two cent tax per pound on margine, which is about the equivalent of fifty cents in a day's money. Uh huh. And by nineteen hundred, over thirty states had passed laws prohibiting adding artificial dying um in margarine to make it look more like butter. And some states didn't stop there, requiring that not only margarine not be dyed to look more like butter, but no, it should be dyed pink. Yep, yep, this is so much not butter that it's pink. Yes. I think they specifically chose that to be like this is something made in a lab. Look a weird. Um. The Supreme Court eventually repealed so called pink loss on the basis that forced adulteration of food is illegal. Um. Yeah, But Wisconsin didn't repeal the law against adding dies to margarine until nineteen sixty seven. Um. Some states banned margarine completely at various points during this time period, and the Supreme Court ruled in that died margarine could not cross state line into a state that had lost prohibity die in margarine. Can you imagine getting pulled over you don't know, you don't know, you don't think about your margine and that's it. Oh um. The rhetoric around all of this could get pretty wild, and it did. Minnesota Governor Lucius Hubbard said that quote, the ingenuity of depraved human genius has culminated in the production of oleo margarine and it's kindred abominations. Oh, depraved human genius. Jurassic Park up in here, and Wisconsin Senator Joseph Quarrel said, quote, I want butter that as the natural aroma of life and health I declined to accept as a substitute. Call fat matured under the chill of death, blended with vegetable oils and flavored by in the cold tricks. Wow, the chill of death. This is intense. Do they do you think they know that butter is also made in a cold environment. I suspect they might have been being a bit fiery for political purposes. To be fair, I did not look up what temperatures margarine is made at, but I think it is Actually I think it's higher temperatures anyway, Okay, please continue foolish. Foolish senature doesn't know. Cartoonists on the butter side of the aisle drew images of all sorts of things being dropped into butter like shoes cats, So I mean not not butter margarine. Heaven forbid that happened to butter. Um advertisements depicted all of this too. In some cases, breaking any of these laws around margarine meant in jail time and or fines and like steep finds, and dairy companies employed detectives to investigate potential crimes. Mm hmmm. And this also led to margarine smuggling within states, um within the strictest laws. So some estimates put the sale of so called bogus butter at sixty million pounds by eighty six uh. And some publications dubbed this whole thing the Oreo Wars. Yeah, I mean, that's that's pretty intense. UM. Not all congress members were on board with this shaming of margarine. UM. Congressman Albert Burlson said about it, Never in the history of the world has a food product been so persistently and outrageously misrepresented as OLEO margarine. I'm trying to think if that's true. I don't think it has, Like remember what people said about tomatoes. It's been intense. In general, people get fired up about a food product. They do they do indeed, and in the Miracle berry that right. Yeah, I guess sugar in general was pretty successful with anyway it was. It's definitely up there. Oh, I'll give them that. And the US was not the only one putting walls in place restricting the margarine industry. Canada banned all margine sales from eighteen eighty six to nine, the only exception being during a butter shortage caused by World War One. Yeah, Canada also has a huge dairy industry. And uh and here here we enter margarine intrigue. So before nine, Newfoundland was still a British colony, not part of Canada yet, and Newfoundland loved margarine. They didn't really have a dairy industry are it's too cold and importing butter is expensive. So margarine was way more available, way cheaper, and they fortified it with vitamins A and D which locals were lacking. And the manufacturing plants employed a bunch of people. Good times all around. Yea margarine. Um, So there was a lot of margarine in Newfoundland, and there was some serious margarine bootlegging across the border into Canada up until about a year after they became a province. At which point Canada finally gave up and revised the law to leave the manufacture, import and export of margarine up to the provinces. Wow, so much margarine injury margarine. Yeah, people wanted that margarine. They did, they did. Even after the total band went away. It wasn't until two eight that laws preventing dying of margarine were lifted. Um. Some sellers in both Canada and else where I got around this by selling their product with a packet of food coloring that you could need in I've never wanted something that I'm going to eat to be yellow that hard like yeah, I mean especially, I'm just imagining needing. That sounds like such a messy process to me. I mean, y'all, do you if that's what you're into. I you know, if anyone has proud memories of needing their color into their margin, I'm with you. I support it. I want to hear all about it. Oh yes, please. UM. I feel like I would have been like, it's fine the color that it is. This is a fine color. Yeah, I could be wrong. I don't know, me too. I feel like a lot of bargine I've had in my life has been almost white and hasn't bothered me. A lot of butter that I have is almost white. That's true. Good point. Okay, Well, speaking of at the same time, butter did suffer some legal obstacles of its own. Congress passed the law in three out long any additions to butter, even additives that would have helped it be more spread herble And I know we talked about this in our Butter episode, but I love the story so much it's worth mentioning again. Um in n participants in a senatorial taste test in Wisconsin, which is a dairy state. If you didn't know, Um, We're blindfolded and tasked with tasting the difference between margarine and butter. All but one got it right. The one that was wrong Gord and Rose Lip. He insisted the margarine was butter. Just just couldn't believe it, ye, which is funny. Hey, only to find out his wife had been swapping out his butter for margarine four years due to worries about his health. I do love that story. That is so good because he was so oriy. He's like, no, I know that butter, adamant. Yeah, he couldn't believe it wasn't butter. Oh no, you're welcome, You're well. Still, margarine was popular UM in the United States. Margarine consumption per person per year surpassed that of butter in nineteen sixty five. In the nineteen seventies, the average American was eating an annual ten pounds of margarine, and by nineteen seventy five, Americans were eating twice as much margarine as butter oh UM. Beginning at n several margarine butter products combinations of margine butter began entering the US market, containing somewhere from butter to only five percent UH and these were popular because they spread better like butter, but they also had the perceived health benefits of margarine. UM and a number of low fat margarine spreads like fat started coming out in the late eighties and early nineties and UM. These gained serious popularity in both the US and the EU. They were UM around seventy of both UM spread markets by the spread Markets, and this was at the time of a health movement around saturated fats versus unsaturated fats. UM Several news stories, articles, charities, professionals came out against saturated fats present and butter, claiming it caused all kinds of negative health outcomes, particularly heart disease, and that unsaturated fats and US margarine these were the healthier alternatives. As a result, many fast food companies pivoted to using trans fats over animal fats, with the additional benefit that they didn't need to be changed out as much like the oil didn't need to be changed out because they can also act as a stable preservative by reducing rancidity. Several mass produced products, particularly baked goods, began using trans fats too, and this whole thing it did just about a complete one eight in the nine nineties, when new research suggested that there was a dark side to the consumption of trans fats when it comes to health. This started to translate into government policy in the two thousands. Denmark almost completely banned transfats in two thousand three. Other European countries adopted similar measures soon after. In two thousand and six, the New York legislature banned trans fats from the state's restaurants, and in the f d A ruled that quote partially hydrogenated oils are no longer generally recognized as safe g R s in human food. Wow. Now, all the articles I found about this. Uh, A lot of them were pretty clear and like this hasn't necessarily been replicated, um, And some of these studies people were citing at the time had not been replicated and perhaps didn't use the best methodology. As always the Savor motto bodies are completly researches needed. But yeah, yeah, I remember this all I remember, like I said, uh, hearing that story about you know that it was margin was so nutritionally void. Fly is wouldn't lay their eggs in it. Or it's one molecule away from plasta. Uh. For for the record, all fatty acids are like one molecule away from plastic. Like that's kind of sort of how molecules work, like like like the ones that your body makes are the same thing. So it's that's not that's not why you should be worried about them, right yeah, right, yeah, I found it. I found a whole website, well article that was just debunking all these miss around Margarine. And that's what how there really are the a lot of miss round Margineum. Also another one is that is originally intended to fatten turkeys, but it killed the turkeys, and said, I wish I hadn't heard, but apparently it was a big thing. Yeah, why would you feed turkeys margarine or butter? That's not what turkeys eat. They eat your soul turkeys are okay, all right, sure fine, Sorry that got ulterior motive of this episode was Lauren getting another the turkey. Yeah, yeah, sorry about it. Sorry, not sorry. And then I just want to throw this in there because that's funny. And two thousand two, Parquet offered a bargarine in a new squeeze bottle and it came in two colors, one of which was pink. Really Yeah, okay, they were leaning into the history or maybe they just randomly did it and didn't realize, but maybe it was like for Valentine's Day or something. I don't know. Yeah, sure, that's great, that's delightful. Mm hmmm. So there's a lot of intrigue of new science words I'm coming away with. Yeah, yeah, the same UM and uh yeah, the scientific process sees that are used for inter esterification UM are still developing UM all the time. It seems like and I, like I said near the top, I don't understand them very well, so so I can't really give you an update. But UM, but I will say that I'm pretty sure it was within like the past couple of decades, like kind of sort of right around when all of the stuff about transpats was going down, that um that the the process that the chemical interesterification was was being replaced by the much more effective um enzematic interest terrification. For as much as that means to anyone, I really hope there's like one person out there who's listening to this and going like, yes, you're getting it right. I was watching you like a student that's suddenly in class it is about realizes they they're about to be called on, and it's like, I do not understand any of this, Please do not ask me. Oh lord, um it's it seems like a really cool scientific thing, like I don't know, like it involves taking enzymes from some maybe like fungal microorganisms and like getting them involved in there and doing this stuff. And I love I love some like like microbiology kind of stuff like that. It makes me super happy. But I also I was I was an English major. I read a lot of food. Oh y'all. Like I mean, like I don't I don't know what to tell you about chemistry. Every now and then there's an episode where I'm like, oh, and be Lauren and this one and Margarine was one. Hum. But yeah, that that is pretty much what we have to say about Margarine. We do have some listener mail for you, we do, but first we have one more quick break for a word from our sponsor. And we're back. Thank you, sponsors, Yes, thank you. We're back with it was supposed to be a menacing spread. Oh yeah, I got I got the menace and I and I think I got the spread, but I'm not sure that I put them together in the correct Yeah, that's fair, to be completely honest, have I every I can't remember whether I've ever said this, like on tape that is going to to to go out to all y'all because, believe me, dear listener, Um, we have some outtakes in this show. Um uh but uh, I can't remember if I've said it out loud. But like when Annie starts to since we're talking over skype right now, when Annie starts to to to do the to to voice the listener mail thing, as soon as I start talking, my headphones cut her out mm hmm, so I can't hear what she's doing. So it's all her gesticulation. That's leading me to make noise at that point. That's all I've got. I think we should all be shocked that it comes out. Wow. Yeah, we yeah, we deserve more recognition for this. You know, I actually didn't know that, Lauren. I think you have told me that, but I didn't understand. Okay, you can't hear me. So I'm glad I'm doing all these gestures. I was just doing a little bonus trying to communicate my meaning. It's critical to the process. I am very glad you told me that I work on my object work oh new mission, all right? Anyway, Camilla wrote, I'm a little behind on the podcast and just listen to the ice Cream Chuck episode. I was quite surprised that you discussed Mr Softie without touching on the death threats. I know as a New Yorker, I'm used to the ubiquitous Mr Softie trucks in the summer, including the one that would park outside of my queen's apartment for hours every summer playing the jingle on an endless whoop. It made me want to go down there and threaten to retaliate. That is, until the news broke of the mafia like way they dealt with competitors. It turns out a former Mr Softy employee, sick of their high fees, broke out on his own under the name Master Softe. This did not sit well with his former employers, and his fleet of truck drivers reported death threats, cut break lines, being threatened with pipes, and all manner of intimidation to shut them down, all of which continued even after a lawsuit force them to change their name to New York Ice Cream Corporation. There were, of course, also rumors of New York ice Cream Corporation threatening what would happen to Mr Softie if anyone was found on air Quote Turf. To this day, whenever I listened to the in the High soundtrack and the Pirogua man sings Mr Softie's trying to shut me down, I picture the Softie Mafia coming after him. I also have a suggestion for Lawrence. Two bottles of capers. I was making jan Martinis on a whim after a particularly stressful day of work and realized that my sad age nearly empty jar of olives had molded. In desperation, I substituted a spoonful of capers. The results were magic. With the gin that is floral and herbaceous, the subtler favor of the capers plays along beautifully rather than being too aggressive as an all of might be. Just be sure not to skimp on the vermouth, and it's a beautifully nuanced cocktail. Granted, I have only tried this with the white balsamic brine variety, and I suspect it wouldn't work for something overly salt heavy. Capers are a staple in my kitchen now for a subtle acid salt note and salads on pizza, in sandwiches, and of course in martinis. Just thought you might enjoy. Oh, oh gosh, I do. I've been meaning to get some martini fixens. That sounds delicious. I have been craving martinis, which I like to think is more than just wanting to drink a glassful of gin um. Get that salt in there. Yeah, sure that's alive or not, I don't know. It's also the vermouth. I also like glassfuls of vermouth. Good stuff. Emma wrote, I just finished your recent episode on Victory Gardens on my commute home from job and thought it was time to send in my second email to you, the first being about Swedish fika and uh cinnamon buns almost a year ago. I hope that I'm saying that correctly again anyway, Okay, Um, allotments are still very much a thing here in Sweden, and they are a hot commodity, even more so. This year one of the big morning newspapers ran a piece about it and highlighted that the waitlist for an allotment in the borough of essentially hipster Central in Stockholm is currently twenty to twenty five years. Gosh, Now onto one of my favorite things, apples. I'm not a big fan of wine, so my wine loving parents have tried everything to get me to like it. So far, they've only succeeded with some sweeter white wines. In frustration, they offered me some apple cider, and wow do they regret it now. My all time favorite is the dessert kind, the ice cider. It's like drinking a sweet, very apple dessert. Highly recommended to everyone. Um, and the process would be a fascinating episode. Okay and she and she included that the specific brand that she drinks and my Swedish is really pathetic. Um and uh so I'm gonna I'm gonna spell it for you instead of trying to say it out loud. It's b r A with an oom lot n n l a n d Okay, yeah, look for that one. And I know that there's a better term for it than A with anom lot. I repeat. I loved it. I understood exactly what she met. Also, I'm looking at it, so then I remember, Um, Lauren and I, uh, we went to food and Wine at Disney a couple of years ago. That was the first time I people told me like, you've got to try the ice wine, and that was my first time having it, and it was lovely cool and crisp. Yeah. Yeah, it's got this really great like um like like acid note to it. But it's also so sweet. Um. It's sort of like a sort of like a like a like a gummy bear in a glass. I don't know, it's uh. And sometimes they can have those like baky flavors from being from being oak aged stuff like that. Oh yep, yep. I went through a serious apporto phase, um, maybe about a decade ago and had had a lot of a lot of knowledge about dessert wines like that. Um, I love you always have a phase. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, I loved it, and we did a flight, so we got to try a bunch of different types of right. Yeah, and a short one that we wanted to conclude in here after our call for names for Victory gardens, that's not Victory garden. Uh, Susan wrote, guys, guys, guys, of course the terms should be corona crop or covid crop. At work, I call the plexiglass shields around my desk my corona cage. Oh, corona crop. I like it. ConA craph. Yeah, it's got a good yeah. So thanks to all of those listeners for writing to us. If you would like to write to us, you can Our email is hello at savor pod dot com. We're also on social media. You can find us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at savor pod, and we do hope to hear from you. Savor is production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts my heart Radio, you can visit the heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots work at things are coming your way,

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