These home and community gardens helped citizens eat better (and keep busy) during the World Wars. Anney and Lauren dig into the history of victory gardens -- and the ways that sustenance gardening has thrived during peacetime, too.
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Hello, and welcome to Faber Protection of I Heart Radio. I'm Anny Rees and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we're talking about victory gardens. Yes, which was a listener suggestion from Alison, So thank you Allison. And this is another one that I'm not sure I would have ever thought to do an episode on myself. So you listeners are always sending us the best suggestion. Oh absolutely, and thank you, yes um. And as it turns out, we are sort of in a time of victory gardens, or in people who weren't previously gardening gardening trying to get food out of that. Yeah. Yeah, I know a lot of people who, um who who started up during quarantine a little bit of a backyard garden or or a little bit of a of a potted garden somewhere in or around their home. Here here at the house, we usually have a bunch of plants doing ngs um. Some of them grow food, not reliably. I wouldn't say. I wouldn't say that we have a lot to do with it, as much as like we pay them just enough attention to not kill them, and sometimes we get produced out of it. Yeah, I was. I was always impressed when I would see whatever random things in my mind you are. It is quite a collection between myself and my roommate. There's the probably the silliest thing we've got are these two avocado trees, um that want to live in Florida in the ground, and instead we have them in these increasingly large pots. Um. And one of them is I'm gonna say, I'm gonna I just looked up as though I could see the top of it from my desk. I cannot dear listener um, but it's maybe like nine ft tall. Now, wow, And this is a thing that we have to bring into the house for when her. Wow. So that's cool. Yeah, that's that seems like a let's get a storyline on a sitcom that I want to see, And every year, like it's a long running sitcom, it gets bigger and bigger and more and more difficult. Yeah. That's yes, that is precisely how that works. Every every year we're like, oh, man, I guess it's time to do this silly thing again. Do you put it off like we kind of do? Yeah? I mean I always tell Heidi, I'm like, I'm like, dude, anytime you want to do this let me know we can do it, and she's like, no, not today. I don't have it in me today. Do you get avocado from it? No? Zero avocados have ever come out, zero blooms and have ever come off at this plant. Yeah. That's why every year I'm like, oh, man, lo, this is okay. So agreed. If I were eating avocado, I would be like, yeah, we've got this avocado tree. It's the best thing in my life. Of course, we move it in and out of the house. You know, maybe any year now, Lauren, an year now, sure, sure, that's a that's that's lovely. Annie. I like your I like your moxie. Yeah. Yeah, I like to have some optimism. But possible avocado. That's excited. Um. Which is funny because I actually have a really bad track record of growing things. Um, I was telling Laura, and I started with fourteen fourteen herbs and now I'm down to two and I am accidentally growing cucumber, which is also a very silly thing. And I have like since quarantine, I've definitely been more I what if I can grow this? And I did grow ska allions for a while, but the smell was quite strong because I live in a very small is very small. Yeah, so no more, no more of that. But it was really exciting. It was exciting to be like, look at it, go I can use this in food. It's and yeah, it's it's a it's a very it's a very nice feeling growing stuff. Um, it's it's fun to do. I enjoy it. And I guess this this brings us to our question. Yes, victory gardens, what are they? Well? A victory garden is a term for a garden that's kept up by someone at home or in their community who probably does not work in agriculture, for the purpose of growing edible plants, with the idea of the produce being a supplemental food source. Um. And and these serve a few purposes um, better food security, um, better nutritional health, but also better mental health. UM. You know. The idea is that it it gets you outside, maybe it gives you something to do with your hands. It gives you these palpable results, um and uh. And the term came that. The reason that they are called victory gardens is that they came from the First and Second World wars um and we will get deeply into that in our history section. Here this is a really history heavy one. Yeah. Yeah, And Laura and I were disgusting how that it's just such a great piece of propaganda essentially, But it's fun. It's like it makes you feel like yes, mine, right, and like what a great term for them whoever, whoever did really come up with that and just had their finger on something beautiful, because right, if you call it what else? What else do you call it? Like like, because if you grow, if you grow a cucumber, Annie, that will be a victory cucumber. Oh it will be, and then I will feel very victorious. I have to say. Um, I have a friend who's really into gardening, and uh, I showed her a picture because I was so thrilled. I'm like, wow, I'm accidentally her own cucumber. And I sent her a picture and she sent back this huge like I really appreciated it. But she was mad at me because she's like, that's not the right containers, not the right soide, I don't like that you're not taking care of your plant. As if I was like, you know, not being mean to a pet. She was very defensive of my cucumber plant. Um made me feel very chastise. Well, I can I can, we can give you a few tips, um to to help it. I mean, it sounds like it's doing just okay on its own. Um, but but if you, if you haven't already u it help if you cut a few drainage holes in the bottom of the container and then set it on you know, like a plate or something, so that when you water it, the some of the water can gape through the bottom um and and out into the world, but not all over your stuff, because you always want you always want drainage in those kind of thing. Yes, yes, um, it's very same. Friends. Mom grows peppers, but she doesn't like spicy food. So I've been getting like bags of peppers and it's been about my favorite thing. Oh wow, yeah yeah. Are you still just eating raw hot peppers just for frenzies? Yeah, so many, like probably every day. I love it. Hey, they are a good source of vitamins, uh fiber. You know what. I find really interesting though, and I want to come back to this in a future episode. I feel like my spice tolerance hasn't improved. Really would have thought it had, Like I have a pretty good tolerance, but I still get you know, I'll get sweaty and it burns. Yeah, it hasn't really gone away. And I've been eating straight peppers for months. It takes longer. That's fat. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know about the I mean there, Maybe it just means that, like you know, your your nervous system is working the way that it's supposed to. Maybe maybe we don't really gain gain gain a new tolerance for that kind of um sensory input. I don't know. Interesting, m hmmm, because my little brother, I think I've talked about it before, literally like trains himself to eat hotter stuff doesn't work for it. Do you think it's psychological though? Like maybe you are, maybe you are more in tune with like your your physiological side, and he's just and he's still experiencing the heat, but just going like, oh yeah, no, this is great, this is going so well. I'm more manly. Now I should ask him, why should you like a follow up interview? Because I thought I was just like, well, my little brothers do get wasn't it working for me? Huh? Alright? Future episode getting a bit derail here? What about the neutral of a Victory Garden went? Well? Okay, Well it depends on what you plant in your garden, I guess. But also don't eat a whole garden, Like there's there's stuff in there that isn't edible, really like you shouldn't. There's a lot of plant stems you don't want to eat. Don't like. Don't eat tomato leaves, those are toxic. Uh that don't eat. Don't eat your garden shears. That wouldn't be a good time. I don't really recommend soil Lauren volgel bomb breaking it down. But who among us with siblings has not eaten dirt on a tair just once? Uh. We have some numbers kind of scattered throughout this one, but we do have something at the top. Yeah. Well, I wanted to put in that there are a number of things named after Victory Gardens. There's a theater in Chicago called a Victory Gardens Theater, as a punk band in Long Island, a defunct confectionery shop in Brooklyn, handful of novels. I mean, it's a good name. It is as said before, and we will tell you how it got this name. But first we're going to take a quick break for a word from our sponsor, and we're back thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you Okay. So, of course, perhaps obviously the idea of people who are not farmers by trade growing small edible gardens at home to supplement the food that they buy from people who are farmers. UM, that's not new. That's not a new shiny idea. UM. Germany, for example, started a movement of gardens for the poor in the eighteen sixties. The burgeoning industrialization and urbanization without the proper like agricultural infrastructure had created this this lack of access to good fresh food in these growing urban areas. UM. These are still around today. They're sometimes called Schreber garden for physician. More its Schraber, who campaigned for them UM. Also sometimes called allotment gardens. Some of the first widespread urban gardening for sustenance movements in the United States, though, happened starting in three with the coming of the Panic UM, which was this massive economic depression. UM. Lots of folks, especially in big cities, were unemployed and we're hungry. Over in Detroit, then Mayor Hazen Pingry, I didn't look it up, but that's a great name. Hazen Pingrey started what he called a potato patch program where in the city allocated vacant land to families for growing food. Within three years, seventeen hundred families had covered four hundred acres with food gardens. Um It helped that a lot of the unemployed where recent immigrants UM who had been farmers over in Central Europe. Other cities picked up the Detroit plan to like New York City and Philly. There were also school gardens that sprung up during the progressive era that's twenty. Yeah, they really got started after the turn of the twentieth century. And these were these these gardening programs for urban kids, and these gardens were thought to build strong world character, keep kids out of trouble, improve health, make areas more beautiful, and also Americanized immigrants in the US. When we say victory garden, what we typically are referring to what we're thinking of um our public and private gardens planted during World War One and World War Two. Some historians specifically pinpoint one businessman, in particular, Charles Lanthrop pack You reportedly got the idea before the war, suggesting it as a to lessons stress on American food ways. After riots broke out in New York due to food shortages. Yeah, nineteen sixteen was a year of crop shortages around the world, and um and so a lot of a lot of folks, again, especially in urban areas, were hurting. Once World War One was under way, Pack organized the National War Garden Commission, though they were not officially affiliated with the US government and the government was not a fan of this. In fact, believed that media messaging was the way to accomplish more widespread gardening. He allegedly came up with the idea to call these gardens victory gardens himself. Um. Yeah, And that was as the war was coming to an end. They were called war gardens or liberty gardens through through the end of World War One. A war garden sounds so much more intense. War garden, garden of war, tomato of blight. That's like one of those uh, like I'm imagining too, Uh how neighbors opposing neighbors comparing their gardens to each other in some shade like what you've got grown over there or either I know it's popular in some games to garden competitively. Oh shure, Yeah, war garden would really ump if we called it that. So these victory gardens went up everywhere churches, parks, playgrounds, backyards. As the name suggests, they served not only as a way to relieve stress put on the food supply, but as a way to rev up patriotism and support for the war effort. It was a way to make people at home and feel like they were doing their part. Soldiers of the Soil was a popular phrase, and people they really got into it. Yeah. Yeah. President Wood Joe Wilson appointed Herbert Hoover to head the U s Food Administration during World War One, and this position made him responsible for exporting, importing, purchasing, and storing food. So in nineteen seventeen, just after the US entered World War One, Hoover helped launch the US School Garden Army UM, a national program that lauded a garden for every child and every child in a garden. Um and uh. And this is where that Soldiers of the Soil thing came in. That this was marketing to youth, encouraging them to grow their munitions plants there, their gardens everywhere, producing as much ammunition or food as possible. Like garden furrows were called trenches. It was a whole thing, um and uh. And it was successful. There were hundred school gardens just in Los Angeles. Wow. Urban and suburban communities alike got into it. Um some two point five million kids were involved all told. Dang, and it wasn't just kids. Um. Some three million families planted food gardens in nineteen seventeen, and that number rose to over five million by Um. There there was just a lot of of propaganda. Um, turn your reserves into preserves. Uh, every kitchen a canning factory, and back up the cannon with the canner. Ah yeah, yeah, I got an ll L home. Production of food was worth some five five million dollars though, So all of that good, good pun writing was was come coming in handy. Oh, it is so funny to me that, and I'm I'm not immune to it at all. You get a good name, you turn it into like a game for kids or its trenches and get your munitions plants. It's amazing to me how effective that is. Yeah, and a yeah, and and on everyone, not just children, just humans. Yeah they're like, oh, munitions plants, that's clever. Get me the tomatoes. Yeah yeah, I would have been in there and through strong messaging to the American people around consuming last while producing more rations are pretty much avoided. During World War One. UM, this whole consume less idea was nicknamed Hoover Rising and was promoted by entities like the National War Garden Commission. Sub commission tried to keep the spirit alive post War one. Pamphlet from nine said, a prevention of widespread starvation is the peacetime obligation of the United States. The war garden of nineteen eighteen must become the victory garden of nineteen nineteen. UM. But uh, but farm production UM, and the economy we're We're pretty good for a couple of years after UM, and so so home gardening like this dropped off a bit rights UM. But then World War Two was a different story because America was recovering for um, the Great Depression. Soon after the US joined World War Two, the US Agriculture Secretary started espousing the benefits of victory gardens, although there was some federal resistance to it at first, especially in the early days, Like UM, the thought of being novice gardeners would waste valuable resources. However, people were so into they remembered World War One, they remembered this call to participate, and the interest was just there. People really really wanted to do their part or feel like they were doing their part, and victory gardens were a part of that. And you know, as we said, the messaging was so it worked so well. People remembered it. So even if you have government officials being like, actually, don't do that, you're like, yeah, but I remember World One. I had my trenches and my munitions plans. I want to help out. And officials did understand the morale boosting nature of these gardens. And there were multiple pamphlets, guides, and articles put out for all like degrees of gardeners along with those patriotic propaganda posters were all familiar with it. They looked the same. Oh yeah, yeah, and y'all I love a propaganda poster um. And some of these are are just just great, um dig for victory. Now, grow vitamins at your kitchen door. Food is the mightiest weapon of them all. So the seeds of victory. I love this. I feel like I need to start saying these things on cookie are growing face. Then my neighbors they were worried before, they'd be really worried. Then um yeah, and it got it got serious. There's this one um instructional film or educational film. I guess um that was that was all like, no work, no turnips, no tanks, no flying fortress, no victory, no turnips, no tanks. Yep, no turnips, no thanks. I think that just sounds like a fun thing to say. I think that's a phrase it needs to come back. Yeah, yeah, I think so too. I think we're we haven't designed a new T shirt in a long time. Yeah, that's right, I like it, Lauren. So in ninety one, um, the War Food Administration here in the US created the National Victory Garden Program and this got big agriculture companies involved as as sponsors and executives on this on this board um that they'd give away seeds and in return get marketing exposure and a tax break um. And so it became a very very corporate thing, um. And there was even a lot of their their marketing materials at the time, because the US became the primary seed producer for most of the Western world at this time, because you know, we weren't we didn't have, um, the same kind of of military involvement on our soil or in our skies as um as Europe did, and so so yeah, we we were producing seeds for a lot of places. Um. And yeah, there was just all of this really heavy handed patriotic imagery and thought process put into it. But another organization that came about during this time was the Women's Land Army UM. And this was this was an organization for women who were working both in victory gardens and also those who were replacing some of the three million male farm workers who had joined the war effort, either in industry or overseas. Yeah, and that was something I noticed when I was looking at some of these drives and organizations. As they got really involved, they would contact like women's magazines, women's organizations, trying to really get women involved in all of this. Neighborhood committees formed around these gardens, dedicating to helping along newcomers and providing supplies were possible, sharing tools, sharing food. The depart ments of Agriculture and War Production produced their own Victory garden fertilizer UM. Excess produce was encouraged to be canned for the winter, and these gardens were advertised as this fun, important, patriotic thing. UM. Not everyone was encouraged to plant to Victory garden. However, people living in cities were not pushed to grow gardens for fear of wasting seeds due to lack of light and soil health. Again, they were almost kind of like told not to do it, but people really wanted to do it. A year into the war, the government introduced the food rationing program. As a compliment to this, officials urged Americans to plant victory gardens while farmers grew the essentials and reminder. Many farmers were drafted to fight in the war, and many Japanese Americans were imprisoned in internment camps uh in that removed farmers from the workforce as well. Um. Some some of the people who were interred in those camps also grew gardens there though, Yeah um. And the food wasn't just for America either. Sometimes it went to American allies. And the need was only exacerbated by the targeting of boats curing food. In nine sales of seas in the US rose three hundred percent. Yeah, and over five hundred gardens sprung up in San Francisco's Golden Gate Park alone during World War Two. Yeah. Cities would hold these are these gardening fairs to to draw citizens in with an entertainment and advice. Um. Some private landowners donated land to Eleanor Roosevelt turned over part of the front White House lawn into this youth led victory garden. Mm hmmm um. Other well known sites like Finway had their own victory gardens. Fenways is still operating today on the same site, attended by the Boston community. Yeah, and I think I think the Smithsonian has one too. Yeah, these are still around. According to once was at one point these gardens were responsible for up to forty one of the vegetable produce for civilians in America, courtesy of eighteen to twenty million families. Historians estimate that these gardens produced somewhere between nine to ten million tons of vegetables. That's some like fifteen billion pounds. Who is a lot. And these vegetables didn't just go to private residences. They also went to businesses and school lunches. Kale beats, let us pee, swish shard, cole, robbie turnips, carrots, cabbage were just a few of the things people were growing, and victory gardens are responsible for bringing some of these foods to American tables. On a more widespread basis. Some people raised chickens as well. Um In ninety three to aid in canning, American families bought three hundred and fifteen thousand pressure cookers, um up from just sixty six thousands the year before. Dang Uh. Speaking of canning, I guess. Beginning in March nineteen forty three, the US started rationing canned fruits and vegetables, primarily to ration the tin yeah yeah like commercially produced canned yes. At the time, Japan controlled of the world's tin. Because of these gardens, many Americans actually ate better during the war than they had before. Over two hundred items were rationed, and these ration items were assigned a point value that could vary based on supply and demand. The grocery had to update point value month to month. And then War Ration Book two came out around the same time, and it came with monthly stamps for forty eight points of process food and the points had to be exact and the raction calendars were published in newspapers. So this all amounted to thirty three pounds of processed food per year, which was thirteen pounds less than pre war levels. The stamps had to be ripped off in front of the grocer to discourage fraud. Uh. This system was improved upon over the years, and by nineteen four shoppers just see plastic tokens for change, so you didn't have to have exact amount anymore. A survey conducted that same year found that sevent of American housewives canned. They were canning. Wow. When the war ended, the gardens largely went away as well. And some foods that have been very easy to grow, like kale, sort of got a bad rap after this. Yeah, we talked about that in our kale episode. Um. You know, and and keep in mind here, you know, it was seen as unnecessary after the war, and also you had this this big boom in in this in this new science food. Um, it was considered very posh um to use all of these helper products that were preprocessed and packaged. UM. And also like keep in mind, like gardening is hard. UM, it's a lot of work. UM. The results can be discouraging, especially if you don't really know what you're doing. UM. In the New York Times ran a story with the headline and the first year is the hardest. UM. It was trying to like reassare readers that they could make their victory gardens happen. All I mean inflection mine. But yeah, right, yeah, um and uh and so we've been talking a lot about the United States here, but of course the US was not the only country where home gardening picked up, especially during the World Wars. The British Ministry of Agriculture launched their Dig for Victory campaign in nine UM. Five million family produce gardens popped up over the next three years alone. UM. Apparently pigs were also kept in some United Kingdom gardens. UM. And yeah, like like we were talking about earlier, Um, the food supply was never really in trouble in the United States during World War two the way that it was in the UK, France, Germany and and other parts of Europe. Um in the world that that saw conflict on and over their soil. Um. You know, attack dick and war is to starve the enemy out. Um. And so the food supply chain was disrupted on purpose in a lot of these places. Um. Like there were some two hundred thousand produce gardens in Berlin alone. Canada got in on creating produce to send to France during the wars, UM on their professional farms, and the government hosted backyard gardening programs there as well. Australia also had a Dig for Victory campaign that started in nineteen forty two. As UM food and labor shortages affected their food supply. UM, some folks sold access to raise war funds. Groups got together to send produce to the fronts, like I read about one women's group getting I think fifty tons of onions together. And uh, Germany kind of for example, never got out of the habit of of these kinds of um of of family or community urban farms the way that we did here. There are apparently still over a million food gardens about the country there today. Wow. I love that. I mean there's kind of a it's a tinge of sadness behind it because of the history. And I do feel like if you it's it kind of reminds me of UM relatives I have from the depression who still have habits from that of like sockpiling food and all of this stuff. UM. So it is a little sad, but I'm happy that they're still going. Yeah. And you know, and I don't think that people would be doing it if it didn't bring them joy and satisfaction. Right. Yeah. I I grew up UM on my mother's side of the family. Uh my, my grandparents always had a food garden. To be fair, they came from from farming families, so I think for them it would have felt weird to not be growing some of their own food. But um, but definitely, I would say that the World War affected affected that for them, and so I, um so, so I grew up with that. That's part of why I have so many plants and pots all over the place doing weird stuff because because yeah, I'm just like, oh no, it's just what you do. You you you you grow, you grow some food. Um and uh yeah, I enjoy it. I like a plant, the plant is nice. Well, I'm here here during quarantine. A lot of people have grown very attached to their plants. So um and yeah. So even though even though it's not a big movement in the U S even even right now, like there's not the same kind of um I guess public pressure or support for home gardening that there was during the World Wars. But um, but there have been a few smaller revivals here in the US here and there. Um. There was a resurgence, for example, during the economic downturn of the nineteen seventies UM, which which started locally in cities affected by by white flight to the suburbs. You know, there was a lot of urban disinvestment on a lot of vacant lots, a lot of UM. The remaining citizens, mostly black people in recent immigrants, were just left with these decreasing options, and so some organizations got together to turn those dead zones into gardens. UM. In seventy seven, the U s d A took the movement national when it debuted the Urban Gardening Program. UM. It sent sort of agricultural extension services that that usually go to like professional farmers out to these urban farmers. UM. And within a decade or so they were working with some two hundred thousand urban gardeners across the country, producing like twenty two point eight million dollars worth of produce on a budget of like three point five million dollars UM. But the program was shut down. UM. The practice though, has survived UM in some cities. And we should really do a separate episode on urban gardening in general. It's a it's a deep and fascinating UM subject. Uh. There was another small resurgence starting in about two thousand eight, UM, you know, after the economic bubble burst. Uh, the burpee seed company reported a spike and seed sales. In two thous eight alone, UM and Michelle Obama reinstated a food garden on the White House lawn. UM and yeah, yeah, now now we've got SMO these COVID quarantine gardens. UM. As early as as early as March, papers like the New York Times were reporting on this huge surge in seed sales and like citizen interest in food gardens. UM. I did want to put in here a parallel. It's it's easy to forget. I think that UM that the same year that those World War One war gardens or UM or liberty gardens were first flourishing was eighteen, which was the year of the influenza pandemic. UM. And so yeah, I don't know, just just taking taking a little bit of control back, even if it's just just a single plotted plant. UM. There has been a push to avoid calling these modern gardens victory gardens, to avoid like the connection to military operations. UM. Provision gardening is a term, but I've seen, but it's just not as it's not as fun. I kind of like quarantine garden because it sounds a little like funny but menacing, like it's my quarantine. Gumen, don't go over there that corn is in quarantine. It knows why well, thank god it you know, any listeners, if you got any terms. I'm a big fan of yeah, because if we can't use Victory Gardens, we gotta come up with something just as good, because yeah, we do, we do. Although, yeah, lots of people are getting into it. I didn't find a statistic for here in the United States, but um but as of late May, um the UK reported that Britain's were gardening during lockdown. Wow. Um, yeah, I definitely heard a lot of my friends getting into it, probably not super intensely. Yeah. Yeah. And then I we've definitely listeners have reached out to us and let us know what they're growing, which please continue to do that. We love it. Yeah, send pictures, yeah, oh yes please. So I guess that's about what we have to say on Victory Gardens today. It is. We do have some listener mail from people who have already sent things in. Um. But first we've got one more quick break for a word from our sponsor, and we're back, Thank you sponsor, and we're back with listen Victory. There's a whole like flexing of Dubai. So oh yeah, that's a good one. Susan wrote, I listen to your Food, a Hannibal episode and your new episode about carab in which Annie said watching Hannibal might have influenced her carab seed Cannibal listing dimare. Oh that sounds terrible if you put it that way, but at accurate um, She continues, I firmly believe that Hannibal might have caused this. I too have been the victim of Hannibal related nightmares. Several years ago, right after getting Amazon Prime, I got the flu, and while feeling miserable that the best way to pass the time was to binge wash Hannibal. Probably not the smartest of plants, since I ended up having dare fever dreams featuring Anibal and Will. The next time I went to the doctor for a checkup, I surprised my doctor had been pushing flu shots on me for years by demanding I'd be vaccinated for everything a bowl at appetitis, pelagra, flu athletes, but whatever he had available. Now, when people tell me they're anti vaccine, I start my spiel with call me the next time you're sick, I have a show for you. Hey, you Hannibal nightmare into good into meaningful action. That's great. Yeah, I do love that. You're like, you know, I feel sick. Let's watch the show. Yeah. I did the same thing, so I can't. I can't say anything. Um, yeah, this is why I just watched Disney movies when I'm I'm like, oh man, this is a great time to catch up on animated feature films that I've not seen yet. Inside Out and you're sobbing and you can't breathe through your nose, and that's just just me. I have still not watched Inside Out because I know that I'm just going to cry through the entire movie. I know that it's a good film and that it contains really a very good psychological representation of the inner workings of the mind. Um, I get that. I don't watch it. I don't want to watch it right now. I don't want to make myself real sad. It was really funny when I saw that movie. I saw in theaters by myself, by myself, and like in the end when the sad thing, like the whole movie is like tanged with sadness, but it was like big moment it happens every adult in that damp theater was crying. None of the kids were. The kids were like what and We're all like, I love that. I love that. I love I. I cry at the end of every Toy Story movie as well. I do. I just I mean I cry a lot. Like that's I you know, I like cried when like when like Aria and and and and her Wolf had their moment, like I was like, I want the same page. Anyway, Um, I won't make you watch inside up for now. Oh gosh. Um. If you guys have suggestions for what won't mess up, you're you're being sick and binge watching and stuff. Yes, what is so inside out is out? Hannibals out. That leaves a lot of room though that does That's a whole world of media. Um. Anyway, Um, Vincenzo wrote, I just finished listening to your Apple podcast. It was great. I meant to send this article over after your interview with Dan Pashman, and given my current slow podcast churn, I'm not sure I would have gotten it there in time for your Apple episode. Anyway. A few years ago I took a course on plant intellectual property, and one of the articles we read was about apples as brands. In particular, and the techniques breeders used to control quality and let's be honest, price since even in academia, a professor will get royalties from I P they generate, and these authors are the breeders of Honey Crisp, which has made a lot for them the department and the university. Blows my mind. I just said never. It's one of those things when when you pointed out, like it is odd that there's so many different types of apples compared route, but then I had never heard of this, like when we talked about an episode, I've never heard of this whole thing. And just the fact that you're getting royalties from Honey Chris. Yeah, I guess I, like low key knew that that it had to that that had that system had to be in place, because I knew that these were like brand names, but I hadn't thought about Yeah, this whole chain of of of revenue that apples as brands, Man apples as brand outside of the technology sector. Weird. Well, they knew what was up. They knew Apple so um. Thanks to both of those listeners for writing in. If you would like to write to us, you can Our email is Hello at savor pod dot com. We're also on social media. You can find us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, all three places. Our handle is at savor pod and we do hope to here from you. Savor is production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts My heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots more good things are coming your way