From the KIRO Radio newsroom in Seattle. I'm Dave Ross, and these are the Ross Files.

From the KIRO Radio newsroom in Seattle. I'm Dave Ross, and these are the Ross Files.

We're going to talk about what happens to prisoners after they finish serving their time with Ari Kohn who runs the post prison education program. So what I want to do because I know you've got a problem with Facebook which I also want to talk about. But before we get to that little tiff let's talk about your your program. We know this. You yourself served some time in federal prison right. Yes.

We're going to talk about what happens to prisoners after they finish serving their time with Ari Kohn who runs the post prison education program. So what I want to do because I know you've got a problem with Facebook which I also want to talk about. But before we get to that little tiff let's talk about your your program. We know this. You yourself served some time in federal prison right. Yes.

What was that for wire fraud wire fraud and when you got out you managed to get right into the University of Washington ? Sort of you know I had to take four classes on matriculated without financial aid and then apply under what was called the older but wiser policy. And then I made high grades on all four of those classes and then I applied and then they accepted me.

What was that for wire fraud wire fraud and when you got out you managed to get right into the University of Washington ? Sort of you know I had to take four classes on matriculated without financial aid and then apply under what was called the older but wiser policy. And then I made high grades on all four of those classes and then I applied and then they accepted me.

I saw you say that you owe the University of Washington your life. It's a sacred place to you because of that.

I saw you say that you owe the University of Washington your life. It's a sacred place to you because of that.

So explain that to us. You know I released from prison in Pennsylvania from the hall. The feds called a segregated housing unit and to go from that kind of an environment to the evergreen trees and the beautiful campus and amazing support that I found that at UW was it was life changing. It was like night and day it was. It was just unbelievable and everybody that's helped me build the posters and education program I met through the University of Washington. They just pretty much put their arms around me which they continue to do that to this day right up to the president by the way.

So explain that to us. You know I released from prison in Pennsylvania from the hall. The feds called a segregated housing unit and to go from that kind of an environment to the evergreen trees and the beautiful campus and amazing support that I found that at UW was it was life changing. It was like night and day it was. It was just unbelievable and everybody that's helped me build the posters and education program I met through the University of Washington. They just pretty much put their arms around me which they continue to do that to this day right up to the president by the way.

Really. Yeah. So it's your belief then that this is this is the key to helping people who've served time cope once they get out.

Really. Yeah. So it's your belief then that this is this is the key to helping people who've served time cope once they get out.

There's no doubt we've been we've been evaluated twice in 2009 and 2016 and our students are ninety two point one three percent successful.

There's no doubt we've been we've been evaluated twice in 2009 and 2016 and our students are ninety two point one three percent successful.

They have a recidivism rate of seven point eighty seven percent. The Department corrections recidivism rate is thirty three point five.

They have a recidivism rate of seven point eighty seven percent. The Department corrections recidivism rate is thirty three point five.

That's pretty dramatic. So you provide money to help people who can't afford school.

That's pretty dramatic. So you provide money to help people who can't afford school.

Yeah I think that's a small part of it though. I think I mean we we're not a business without it and our students don't have Russo or the head without it but I think it's the the mentoring.

Yeah I think that's a small part of it though. I think I mean we we're not a business without it and our students don't have Russo or the head without it but I think it's the the mentoring.

You know yet you have a legal problem we hire a lawyer if you if you relapse we deal with it. If you're suffering mental illness which so many are then we weren't we weren't willing to provide a support system to make sure they succeed in college.

You know yet you have a legal problem we hire a lawyer if you if you relapse we deal with it. If you're suffering mental illness which so many are then we weren't we weren't willing to provide a support system to make sure they succeed in college.

Yeah you rely on Facebook to keep you for your network supporters is that right.

Yeah you rely on Facebook to keep you for your network supporters is that right.

We have about 24000 people on the program's Facebook page. I've got about thirty six hundred on my page. And we use that extensively.

We have about 24000 people on the program's Facebook page. I've got about thirty six hundred on my page. And we use that extensively.

And you're having trouble with Facebook now. They have. What are they done.

And you're having trouble with Facebook now. They have. What are they done.

They may have put us out of business actually was something that they did.

They may have put us out of business actually was something that they did.

So I rented town hall at the beginning of the year and got Pete Earley former Washington Post reporter and Pulitzer Prize nominee wrote and written 17 books but he wrote a fabulous book called Crazy.

So I rented town hall at the beginning of the year and got Pete Earley former Washington Post reporter and Pulitzer Prize nominee wrote and written 17 books but he wrote a fabulous book called Crazy.

I got Pete to agree to come in and keynote speech or talk at Town Hall the criminalization of serious mental illnesses has gotten to a point where the legislature doing nothing meaningful and people are dying. There's data proving that when there's an issue that's so important to me that I'm willing to rent Town Hall Seattle then we rent Town Hall Seattle and then the way we fill Town Hall is as we drive that attendance through Facebook you know.

I got Pete to agree to come in and keynote speech or talk at Town Hall the criminalization of serious mental illnesses has gotten to a point where the legislature doing nothing meaningful and people are dying. There's data proving that when there's an issue that's so important to me that I'm willing to rent Town Hall Seattle then we rent Town Hall Seattle and then the way we fill Town Hall is as we drive that attendance through Facebook you know.

And once he agreed and we signed the contract and made the deposit at town hall then then we put the event up on Facebook and then we paid Facebook to promote the event. And they canceled the promotion and said we didn't meet their standards which. And I wrote them to the extent that you can write to them. It's very difficult to communicate with them they hide behind walls behind walls and walls. But I wrote to them and unlike I know I had to be careful of profanity and that's my second language. But but but I wrote I basically what the H are you are you doing. You know we've spent fifty thousand dollars over 15 years promoting events with you guys. And how is it that having a community discussion about serious mental illness doesn't meet your standards and especially when led by somebody like Pete Earley they decided that the topic was political and I brought some topic or slanted so so discussion of serious mental illness was apparently political. So we were just kind of stuck and I was panicking. Well wait a minute you can't advertise political events on Facebook? If their decision makers which could be somebody in the Philippines this contract group that they've hired or could be an algorithm if the decision is that it's a political thing you can advertise but they want to make sure your letter it sounds corny but they want to make sure you're not a Russian. I see or that you've gotten caught up in the event.

And once he agreed and we signed the contract and made the deposit at town hall then then we put the event up on Facebook and then we paid Facebook to promote the event. And they canceled the promotion and said we didn't meet their standards which. And I wrote them to the extent that you can write to them. It's very difficult to communicate with them they hide behind walls behind walls and walls. But I wrote to them and unlike I know I had to be careful of profanity and that's my second language. But but but I wrote I basically what the H are you are you doing. You know we've spent fifty thousand dollars over 15 years promoting events with you guys. And how is it that having a community discussion about serious mental illness doesn't meet your standards and especially when led by somebody like Pete Earley they decided that the topic was political and I brought some topic or slanted so so discussion of serious mental illness was apparently political. So we were just kind of stuck and I was panicking. Well wait a minute you can't advertise political events on Facebook? If their decision makers which could be somebody in the Philippines this contract group that they've hired or could be an algorithm if the decision is that it's a political thing you can advertise but they want to make sure your letter it sounds corny but they want to make sure you're not a Russian. I see or that you've gotten caught up in the event.

Yeah. In the attempt to get Russia out of our election.

Yeah. In the attempt to get Russia out of our election.

Yeah. And so in some ways it's it's wonderful that they're doing it. It's also terrible that they can't tell a discussion about mental illness from a political issue and that's kind of insane.

Yeah. And so in some ways it's it's wonderful that they're doing it. It's also terrible that they can't tell a discussion about mental illness from a political issue and that's kind of insane.

It's like well mental illness has to do with homelessness and homelessness is a political discussion now so so.

It's like well mental illness has to do with homelessness and homelessness is a political discussion now so so.

So what they did was they were like very few days in the event and we're having discussions about it's probably necessary to cancel.

So what they did was they were like very few days in the event and we're having discussions about it's probably necessary to cancel.

But they they gave me a link and you answer questions that were phenomenal like what street address did you live on in 1982 when you lived in Asheville North Carolina and then they give you a multiple choice and I was just like one. It was one of five pie Kroft And I was just darn lucky that I could answer that but questions like that. That's well that's the standard background check list. And and then once you clear those they said OK we're mailing a letter to your house and I brought it with me and you'll have a code in it. So now they want to make sure you live they know where you live right. Right. The letter took a long time to come in. Everyday I was gone from our office in Sodo to my house. Panic stricken that this letter wouldn't be there and it can't not be in there. And so literally frantic I went back into Facebook found another link appealed it again and this time they admitted their original decision was wrong and they said they said you know we've re-evaluated our original decision and we made a mistake and you're you're now authorized to advertise the event. Well that's good. But the event is about to happen. Well then we were 17 days to the event they had burned up 82 days of promotion time and we had a we had a board meeting and decided to ask Town Hall and Pete early to cancel the event we were scheduled for October 9 and putting off the discussion of mental illness I mean that was a critical we could do it on October 9th just as well as we could have done it in June. I think what happened was we've had some funding issues that are critical and and that event we probably would've brought in about thirty thousand dollars based on past experience with showing documentaries or other fundraising events and putting off that income that may put us under we literally might go under because of what Facebook did .

But they they gave me a link and you answer questions that were phenomenal like what street address did you live on in 1982 when you lived in Asheville North Carolina and then they give you a multiple choice and I was just like one. It was one of five pie Kroft And I was just darn lucky that I could answer that but questions like that. That's well that's the standard background check list. And and then once you clear those they said OK we're mailing a letter to your house and I brought it with me and you'll have a code in it. So now they want to make sure you live they know where you live right. Right. The letter took a long time to come in. Everyday I was gone from our office in Sodo to my house. Panic stricken that this letter wouldn't be there and it can't not be in there. And so literally frantic I went back into Facebook found another link appealed it again and this time they admitted their original decision was wrong and they said they said you know we've re-evaluated our original decision and we made a mistake and you're you're now authorized to advertise the event. Well that's good. But the event is about to happen. Well then we were 17 days to the event they had burned up 82 days of promotion time and we had a we had a board meeting and decided to ask Town Hall and Pete early to cancel the event we were scheduled for October 9 and putting off the discussion of mental illness I mean that was a critical we could do it on October 9th just as well as we could have done it in June. I think what happened was we've had some funding issues that are critical and and that event we probably would've brought in about thirty thousand dollars based on past experience with showing documentaries or other fundraising events and putting off that income that may put us under we literally might go under because of what Facebook did .

So what's the lesson here. Besides I don't know you have to apply to Facebook in a special way if you're doing a political event. Yeah you really do.

So what's the lesson here. Besides I don't know you have to apply to Facebook in a special way if you're doing a political event. Yeah you really do.

And then here's here's the code that came into my mind then what it was like when I got it after they admitted that they had the original decision was wrong and they approved the event like seven days later the letter comes in the mail and then I can put the code in and boom it's like Aladdin's lamp right and you're OK and I said do you think the Facebook has gone too far now to try and keep the Russians out of our business. No to be honest I don't. But I think they're doing it wrong. It's this whole process that they did. I was kind of glad that they're doing it. I don't like what happened in 2016. And I was glad that they were doing it. I think who they have doing it is ridiculous. You know maybe the algorithms are wrong. Third parties that they're contracted with to do it don't know day from night. So the way they're doing it the people they use and the algorithms those are wrong. This was right at the time when Pelosi's image was being allowed all over Facebook and it was a distorted the slow motion. Yeah that made her look drunk and that that meant that was fine with Facebook. I mean which is ludicrous. It's like. So why is a discussion with Pete Early And if you Google this guy he's an amazing guy and by the way his interest in this his son was mentally ill and died because of what happened to him in the criminal justice system. Again an amazing guy but so why is it ok not ok to have a Pete Earley discussion about mental illness in a town hall event but it's OK to distort images of Nancy Pelosi and make her look drunk when she wasn't and blow that all over Facebook.

And then here's here's the code that came into my mind then what it was like when I got it after they admitted that they had the original decision was wrong and they approved the event like seven days later the letter comes in the mail and then I can put the code in and boom it's like Aladdin's lamp right and you're OK and I said do you think the Facebook has gone too far now to try and keep the Russians out of our business. No to be honest I don't. But I think they're doing it wrong. It's this whole process that they did. I was kind of glad that they're doing it. I don't like what happened in 2016. And I was glad that they were doing it. I think who they have doing it is ridiculous. You know maybe the algorithms are wrong. Third parties that they're contracted with to do it don't know day from night. So the way they're doing it the people they use and the algorithms those are wrong. This was right at the time when Pelosi's image was being allowed all over Facebook and it was a distorted the slow motion. Yeah that made her look drunk and that that meant that was fine with Facebook. I mean which is ludicrous. It's like. So why is a discussion with Pete Early And if you Google this guy he's an amazing guy and by the way his interest in this his son was mentally ill and died because of what happened to him in the criminal justice system. Again an amazing guy but so why is it ok not ok to have a Pete Earley discussion about mental illness in a town hall event but it's OK to distort images of Nancy Pelosi and make her look drunk when she wasn't and blow that all over Facebook.

My guess is because Facebook is trying to police itself on the cheap and they're leaving it up to some algorithm which has no emotional intelligence and really it doesn't know what you're even talking about here. Zombie gets kicked up to a human supervisor. The damage has been done.

My guess is because Facebook is trying to police itself on the cheap and they're leaving it up to some algorithm which has no emotional intelligence and really it doesn't know what you're even talking about here. Zombie gets kicked up to a human supervisor. The damage has been done.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean you you're dead on 200 percent right. You couldn't be more right. That's exactly what it is.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean you you're dead on 200 percent right. You couldn't be more right. That's exactly what it is.

Yeah. So there's a lesson here for for nonprofits who are hoping the Facebook will do the right thing you've got to I guess you gotta know the system.

Yeah. So there's a lesson here for for nonprofits who are hoping the Facebook will do the right thing you've got to I guess you gotta know the system.

Call me up. I know it now. Unbelievable.

Call me up. I know it now. Unbelievable.

Well I hope your October event is a success because if you can get recidivism down to what was it a little over 7 percent.

Well I hope your October event is a success because if you can get recidivism down to what was it a little over 7 percent.

That's a pretty amazing statistic although you know the remarkable thing about it is when we realized how many of Washington's prisoners are suffering mental illness and we've gotten data from DLC on notices it's horrifying. Then we changed our admissions criteria. So now if you're not high risk or sort of a part of the Department of Corrections plus s code two three four five which are all indicators of mental illness then we won't spend money on you. And so we're working with people who had the most difficult lives of all. We're not we're not choosing to spend money on people who are mentally healthy or who the DOC said low or moderate Mr. recidivist and yet we've got this phenomenal success rate and we don't. Our students do.

That's a pretty amazing statistic although you know the remarkable thing about it is when we realized how many of Washington's prisoners are suffering mental illness and we've gotten data from DLC on notices it's horrifying. Then we changed our admissions criteria. So now if you're not high risk or sort of a part of the Department of Corrections plus s code two three four five which are all indicators of mental illness then we won't spend money on you. And so we're working with people who had the most difficult lives of all. We're not we're not choosing to spend money on people who are mentally healthy or who the DOC said low or moderate Mr. recidivist and yet we've got this phenomenal success rate and we don't. Our students do.

So let me ask you this do you because we've done a lot of discussions about homelessness and it comes back comes back to do things it comes back to drug abuse and mental illness. I don't know. I get the feeling that many times we are up against some kind of primal force that just doesn't doesn't want to be changed.

So let me ask you this do you because we've done a lot of discussions about homelessness and it comes back comes back to do things it comes back to drug abuse and mental illness. I don't know. I get the feeling that many times we are up against some kind of primal force that just doesn't doesn't want to be changed.

But your experience is that even these more extreme forms of mental illness can be treated and people can go on to successful lives.

But your experience is that even these more extreme forms of mental illness can be treated and people can go on to successful lives.

No there's no doubt we're dealing with people who have borderline personality disorder schizoaffective disorder bipolar.

No there's no doubt we're dealing with people who have borderline personality disorder schizoaffective disorder bipolar.

And these people will do well in the university environment and in 82 they do do well.

And these people will do well in the university environment and in 82 they do do well.

I mean we've got one guy that graduated u dub with a degree in physics and applied math. I don't even know what applied math is not to spell it. That's it. I went on and got his master's degree in applied math at UW.

I mean we've got one guy that graduated u dub with a degree in physics and applied math. I don't even know what applied math is not to spell it. That's it. I went on and got his master's degree in applied math at UW.

We've got a lawyer we've got electrical engineer there's a guy who has like 40 felony convictions six or seven imprisonments and he's working very successfully in a Catholic community services in Olympia now in partnership with the police department they're after gotten haven't gotten a four year degree at Evergreen State College.

We've got a lawyer we've got electrical engineer there's a guy who has like 40 felony convictions six or seven imprisonments and he's working very successfully in a Catholic community services in Olympia now in partnership with the police department they're after gotten haven't gotten a four year degree at Evergreen State College.

So we've got you know culinary arts welders and how do you get employers to take the risk of hiring somebody with a record like that.

So we've got you know culinary arts welders and how do you get employers to take the risk of hiring somebody with a record like that.

It's education and it's the degree and it's also the years it takes to get the education. Those are years you're moving away from prison and conviction and the further you get away from that and the more contacts you build in the less relevant it is you still got.

It's education and it's the degree and it's also the years it takes to get the education. Those are years you're moving away from prison and conviction and the further you get away from that and the more contacts you build in the less relevant it is you still got.

I mean I had the president Gates Foundation U.S. programs call me because his brother has a felony conviction is black and couldn't get a job with Comcast. And and he was asking me about the same issue. Yeah. So the first part of it is if they don't want you shoot him a bird and move on because the next person will take you. I mean the deal is my first job after I graduate UW was the Washington State Senate. Shelly Claire works for bigger industries and is cleared to do welding on Coast Guard gunships. And she was hired by Washington State Ferries despite a horrible criminal record. And she's done great. Yeah.

I mean I had the president Gates Foundation U.S. programs call me because his brother has a felony conviction is black and couldn't get a job with Comcast. And and he was asking me about the same issue. Yeah. So the first part of it is if they don't want you shoot him a bird and move on because the next person will take you. I mean the deal is my first job after I graduate UW was the Washington State Senate. Shelly Claire works for bigger industries and is cleared to do welding on Coast Guard gunships. And she was hired by Washington State Ferries despite a horrible criminal record. And she's done great. Yeah.

Is the is the economy helping here. Because I mean we have pretty close to a full employment economy.

Is the is the economy helping here. Because I mean we have pretty close to a full employment economy.

No it's it may have some to do but I don't think so because we. But we've had we start in 2005 and our students have had.

No it's it may have some to do but I don't think so because we. But we've had we start in 2005 and our students have had.

So you think they can succeed in any economy.

So you think they can succeed in any economy.

Yeah yeah yeah. I mean we went through the Gregoire years and WAMU going under and all that insanity you know Amazon flew a student of ours in from New Hampshire to January's ago and had him speak to about one hundred and ten brainiacs at Amazon headquarters with wine and cheese and all that to just talk about the value of prisoners and former prisoners and this guy Chris Jones is an electrical engineer married two kids a house as big as this building and Hampshire just a beautiful life. I think the degree and the contacts you build while you're getting the degree that's it in Indiana disciplining yourself being clean and sober go into treatment if it's necessary. That's the dividing line you know nine people that we work with out a ten has spectacular successes but one there'll be one that doesn't. And it's usually a horrible crash and burn very sad situation but we're almost a concierge service you got a problem we'll deal with it. And to give people time to put their lives together. But it's they.

Yeah yeah yeah. I mean we went through the Gregoire years and WAMU going under and all that insanity you know Amazon flew a student of ours in from New Hampshire to January's ago and had him speak to about one hundred and ten brainiacs at Amazon headquarters with wine and cheese and all that to just talk about the value of prisoners and former prisoners and this guy Chris Jones is an electrical engineer married two kids a house as big as this building and Hampshire just a beautiful life. I think the degree and the contacts you build while you're getting the degree that's it in Indiana disciplining yourself being clean and sober go into treatment if it's necessary. That's the dividing line you know nine people that we work with out a ten has spectacular successes but one there'll be one that doesn't. And it's usually a horrible crash and burn very sad situation but we're almost a concierge service you got a problem we'll deal with it. And to give people time to put their lives together. But it's they.

They're the ones that have to put their lives together and when they do that's to their credit. Yeah. the alternative to this is what they release you at midnight with 50 dollars in your pocket about 7:00 in the morning with 40.

They're the ones that have to put their lives together and when they do that's to their credit. Yeah. the alternative to this is what they release you at midnight with 50 dollars in your pocket about 7:00 in the morning with 40.

Yeah one set of clothes khakis that identify you as having come from where you come from. Yeah. And you know buy a hot dog cost ten dollars anymore. So by the time you take a train from Vancouver after releasing from Larch or a bus from Walla Walla after release him from the Washington State Penitentiary and you've crossed the state to release in Pierce County or wherever the 40 bucks is gone and you're unemployed and you're probably alienated from your family. Yeah it's almost like they expect you to come back. So why bother. Exactly. I mean they force it they force recidivism. And what really again I have to I have to watch. I can see that. But it's like it's like if you want to learn profanity come to my office we got one to one profanity for I believe. But anyway it's infuriating that the Washington state legislature and the Department Corrections had the answers. We've proven to them how to do this and they won't do it. Jeanie Darnell who I've frankly grown to despise and she's in a key position in the Senate keeps like a parrot. The political will is not there the political will is not there. Mark the political will is not there right. I've been listening to that for seven years and so are people that I work with. And so they've got the answers and they just choose not employ it.

Yeah one set of clothes khakis that identify you as having come from where you come from. Yeah. And you know buy a hot dog cost ten dollars anymore. So by the time you take a train from Vancouver after releasing from Larch or a bus from Walla Walla after release him from the Washington State Penitentiary and you've crossed the state to release in Pierce County or wherever the 40 bucks is gone and you're unemployed and you're probably alienated from your family. Yeah it's almost like they expect you to come back. So why bother. Exactly. I mean they force it they force recidivism. And what really again I have to I have to watch. I can see that. But it's like it's like if you want to learn profanity come to my office we got one to one profanity for I believe. But anyway it's infuriating that the Washington state legislature and the Department Corrections had the answers. We've proven to them how to do this and they won't do it. Jeanie Darnell who I've frankly grown to despise and she's in a key position in the Senate keeps like a parrot. The political will is not there the political will is not there. Mark the political will is not there right. I've been listening to that for seven years and so are people that I work with. And so they've got the answers and they just choose not employ it.

It seems to me that it saves a tremendous amount of money not to have to rehouse the same people in that state expense over and over again.

It seems to me that it saves a tremendous amount of money not to have to rehouse the same people in that state expense over and over again.

They don't care. They don't care why not. It goes back to I think Richard Nixon tough on crime soft on crime.

They don't care. They don't care why not. It goes back to I think Richard Nixon tough on crime soft on crime.

Well I mean I see what you're saying but what Jeanie Darnel is probably saying is that there's been a stereotype that's been deeply embedded in people's minds about what an ex inmate is and your job I guess is to change that stereotype.

Well I mean I see what you're saying but what Jeanie Darnel is probably saying is that there's been a stereotype that's been deeply embedded in people's minds about what an ex inmate is and your job I guess is to change that stereotype.

You know I'll tell you a quick Jeanie Darnell anecdote real quick seven years ago those were six percent budget cuts were ordered across the board WAMU had gone under.

You know I'll tell you a quick Jeanie Darnell anecdote real quick seven years ago those were six percent budget cuts were ordered across the board WAMU had gone under.

OK. So during the recession basically yeah yeah.

OK. So during the recession basically yeah yeah.

And Ross Hunter was trying to find another 15 million and the DSE's budget and he was chair of appropriations. He didn't know DSE so he contacted Jeannie Darnell. And in reality when you watch what Darnell does with legislation she doesn't even know how to spell DLC so she contacted Roger Goodman who has a better knowledge of the Department of Corrections he's chair of public safety now original board member of ours and then Roger called me and then I called Ellen Vail who by then had he had retired as secretary of the deals was one the most savvy guys in the state of Washington. I wish she was a governor just incredibly smart savvy. ELDEN Vail Elden Vail and L and and I asked Eldon if he would present this plan that he had shown me a year earlier to Jeanie Darnell and Roger Goodman and he agreed.

And Ross Hunter was trying to find another 15 million and the DSE's budget and he was chair of appropriations. He didn't know DSE so he contacted Jeannie Darnell. And in reality when you watch what Darnell does with legislation she doesn't even know how to spell DLC so she contacted Roger Goodman who has a better knowledge of the Department of Corrections he's chair of public safety now original board member of ours and then Roger called me and then I called Ellen Vail who by then had he had retired as secretary of the deals was one the most savvy guys in the state of Washington. I wish she was a governor just incredibly smart savvy. ELDEN Vail Elden Vail and L and and I asked Eldon if he would present this plan that he had shown me a year earlier to Jeanie Darnell and Roger Goodman and he agreed.

And so we met in the House office building in Olympia in a back sort of hidden conference room. And Eldin presented this plan which would save lives could save lives. And at the end of his presentation Jeanie Lilly got up and walked out of the room and her parting remarks were the political will is not there.

And so we met in the House office building in Olympia in a back sort of hidden conference room. And Eldin presented this plan which would save lives could save lives. And at the end of his presentation Jeanie Lilly got up and walked out of the room and her parting remarks were the political will is not there.

And then more recently with an activist who's pretty amazing here in the community melody suddenly who pushed the ombuds bill through a 10 year effort on a different effort melody heard the same thing from Jeanie Darnielle the political will is not there and maybe the political will isn't there for 10000 different reasons including Richard Nixon tough on crime. If you're perceived to be soft on crime you might get voted out of office. Or maybe they just don't care. But but for whatever reasons people are dying. Tax dollars have been misspent lives are being destroyed families are being destroyed and it's pretty horrible. I'd actually there's some research by the former associate assistant secretary of the health division at USC that shows how bad things are. He's now based at you Mark Stern and I put it on my Facebook yesterday afternoon causes and slant tag Jeanie Darnell and slammed the issue but it's so bad in Washington State that 70 men and women within less than two years of their release are choosing to die from overdose or suicide. And nationally it's 5000. That's how bad it is reentry is bad.

And then more recently with an activist who's pretty amazing here in the community melody suddenly who pushed the ombuds bill through a 10 year effort on a different effort melody heard the same thing from Jeanie Darnielle the political will is not there and maybe the political will isn't there for 10000 different reasons including Richard Nixon tough on crime. If you're perceived to be soft on crime you might get voted out of office. Or maybe they just don't care. But but for whatever reasons people are dying. Tax dollars have been misspent lives are being destroyed families are being destroyed and it's pretty horrible. I'd actually there's some research by the former associate assistant secretary of the health division at USC that shows how bad things are. He's now based at you Mark Stern and I put it on my Facebook yesterday afternoon causes and slant tag Jeanie Darnell and slammed the issue but it's so bad in Washington State that 70 men and women within less than two years of their release are choosing to die from overdose or suicide. And nationally it's 5000. That's how bad it is reentry is bad.

So do you think if you had more support you could make more of a dent in homelessness and the opioid problem. Yes than some of these other programs. It's no question and its proven the data and the reach. We've been researched to the point of oblivion and the hang up seems to be that it's because you're working with felons that there's no political will to spend the money on this.

So do you think if you had more support you could make more of a dent in homelessness and the opioid problem. Yes than some of these other programs. It's no question and its proven the data and the reach. We've been researched to the point of oblivion and the hang up seems to be that it's because you're working with felons that there's no political will to spend the money on this.

Yeah and you know you've got large funders like Gates Foundation that by policy won't. They'll fund children. And that's politically safe but they won't fund their parents or parents. The same problem with the United Way. And then there's a diminished number of people who will Google has been amazing with us. I mean really not just the corporation but the employees. You know there's 300 people who work for Google in this area who have kept this program alive. And then Google corporate matches it. And when we had Google money plus Warren Buffett sisters money Doris Buffet's foundation we were we were never in high cotton but we were able to help in meaningful ways. That money went away. That was 40 percent of our budget. And there's nobody to replace it. There's nobody to replace it but government and government just won't.

Yeah and you know you've got large funders like Gates Foundation that by policy won't. They'll fund children. And that's politically safe but they won't fund their parents or parents. The same problem with the United Way. And then there's a diminished number of people who will Google has been amazing with us. I mean really not just the corporation but the employees. You know there's 300 people who work for Google in this area who have kept this program alive. And then Google corporate matches it. And when we had Google money plus Warren Buffett sisters money Doris Buffet's foundation we were we were never in high cotton but we were able to help in meaningful ways. That money went away. That was 40 percent of our budget. And there's nobody to replace it. There's nobody to replace it but government and government just won't.

Ari Kohn runs the post prison education program. He's now figured out how to use Facebook. So you'll have your event in October where people can find out more about it if they Google you they'll get your Facebook page and read about it there.

Ari Kohn runs the post prison education program. He's now figured out how to use Facebook. So you'll have your event in October where people can find out more about it if they Google you they'll get your Facebook page and read about it there.

If they google me they get all kinds of stuff.

If they google me they get all kinds of stuff.

It's a r i - k o h n. Thank you very much.

It's a r i - k o h n. Thank you very much.

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