Biden's massive clemency/pardon list, Nasdaq diversity rules rejected, Caitlin Clark backlash

Published Dec 13, 2024, 4:50 AM

12.12.2024 #RolandMartinUnfiltered: Biden's massive clemency/pardon list, Nasdaq diversity rules rejected, Caitlin Clark backlash 

President Biden, nearing the end of his administration, commutes and pardons individuals convicted of nonviolent crimes. 

The DOJ cracks down on abusive force in Massachusetts and Kentucky. We'll break it all down. 

Caitlin Clark's recent comments spark backlash and open a conversation on what Jemele Hill calls an "obvious issue." 

And later, we pay tribute to the late, great Nikki Giovanni. #BlackStarNetwork partner: Fanbase
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You dig Today is December twelve, twenty twenty four, coming up by rolling my non FOOTUS streaming live of the Black Star Network. White Maga is up set because they're great. White hole. Caitlyn Clark showed appreciation of the black ball players, as she had admitted she has white privilege. I'm gonna talk to Jamail Hill about how these folks are losing they ever loving mind. President Biden issues the most partners ever in one day. Will tell you about that. But that's that's the only partners he's gonna be issuing. Also, the DJ nailed another police department. Plus we shall remember the great Nikki Giovanni. Talk hear from those who knew her, but also play you the interview that I did with her. Four years in National six years ago when we launched this show. It is time to bring the funk on rollerd Mark unfilcher on the Blackstar Network.

Let's go on top best believe he's knowing.

Lost host to politics.

Just bunk.

He's stolen, It's stolen, He's she's real the question, No, he's rolling.

Monte Well you'all Time magazine named Caitlin Clark the Athlete of the Year and she made some comments in her interview that Lord has driven white maga out of their minds.

Uh.

This is what she had to say at the event where they revealed UH covers.

And even today earlier today, Meg and Kelly, she was saying that you were apologizing for your white privilege and the fact that you wanted to uplift black female athletes and make sure that they were getting the shine kind of like your pioneers were getting the shine that they deserve. And I just want to know how you feel or how you respond to some of those criticisms when you have to deal with something that it's really not your problem, Like I feel like it's them looking at a mirror a little bit, but it still comes down on your shoulders.

I feel like I always have had really good perspective on everything that's kind of happened in my life, whether that's been good, whether that's been bad. And then obviously coming to the WNBA, like I've said, I feel like I've earned every single thing that's happened to me over the course of my career. But also I grew up a fan of this league from a very young age, Like my favorite player was Maya More, Like I know what this league was about, and like I said, like it's only been around twenty five plus years, so I know there's been so many amazing black women that have been in this league, and continuing to uplift them, I think is very important and that's something I'm very aware of. And like I said, like I try to just be real and authentic and you know, share my truth. And I think that's very easy for me. Like I'm very comfortable in my own skin, and that's kind of been how it is my entire life.

Yes, and you'll never be able to make everyone happy. And someone that knows that if twenty two like let's go, I.

Mean, I think I have a good perspective on that. And like I said in the article which turned out amazing, and I thought it was great. I said, I feel like one of my best skills is just blocking things out, Like I don't.

I don't really.

The only opinions I really care about are the people that I love, my teammates, my coaches, the people inside of our locker room, the people that I see every every single day, and I know had the my best interest at heart too. So I think my best skill is just blocking out the noise, and hopefully it continues to be because with the way things are going and where the WNBA is going, you want that attention and you embrace it and that's what makes this so fun.

Yeah, I'm just so thankful that you are the leader, like you are the chosen one in the future of the sport because of the ally ship, the truth, and the willingness to stand and say things if you have to. But I also think the nuance that you used in that article, and I hope everyone gets a chance to read it.

Well, y'all the white folk the lost their mind. Charlie Kirk, you know that white racist who leads Turning Point in USA. This was a tweet that he posted, y'all go ahead and showed Calen Clark is getting very bad advice. The whole country is rejecting wokeism and anti white ideology. She has a chance to stay neutral and failed miserably. Her handler saw this as a chance to quote keep woke alive unquote too bad. She's an amazing athlete who totally missed on this one. Then, of course you got this white woman, what's her name, Riley Ganges. Now, she done made a name for herself because she swam.

She swam.

She was in some swimming competition. She lost to a transgender ath the league, but she came in fifth place. So I ain't like she's a winner at anything. But she's got like one point four million followers, and so they made her this superhero on the right, and so she's been commenting on everything left and right, and so again I don't understand. I mean, I don't know what she's actually done, what she's actually accomplished. Ever, so this is what this fool tweeted. Y'all go ahead and pull it up. No one was asking for Caitlyn Clark to position herself as a right wing hero. All she needed to do was remain neutral. She's a phenom who inspires countless young girls to play and achieve. So I still have great admiration for her, but she missed the mark on this one columnist, author, podcast host Jabello, Hill Jorgesian right now and laud Jamel. These white folks are beside themselves, let's just call it. They desperately wanted Caitlyn Clark to be the great white first of hold on, let me pull all together. They want her to be the great white Christian, perfect anti black woman loves a man, uh superhero, That's what they wanted, I mean, And so they are losing their mind because she dan showed respect to the black basketball player before her. Because they hate the w n Bay, they hate the black lesbians, they hate the black people. They hate them because they take the stands. That's all this is about, and they are showing their real racist position.

Yeah, I mean, Roland, I'm so glad that you broke it down that way because we knew most of us that have followed women's college basketball and follow Kaitlyn Clark's career in particular, all some of the people forming behind Caitlin Clark information people she didn't ask to form behind her. So they essentially weaponized Kaitlyn Clark's success. They weaponized her popularity and they made her their avatar for everything they can't stand about black women. Let's just call it what it is. And when she didn't deliver that to them, they got mad, just like they got mad when she liked the Taylor Swift post social media posts of Taylor Swift endorsing Kamala Harris, they lost their mind in so we see the common theme here, Roland. Whenever Kaitlyn Clark shows any level of appreciation or respect for black women, they hate her guts And so their position could not be more clear and obvious, because I'm just laughing, Like, you know, y'all did all this talk when you thought she was your personal superhero, and now she's disappointed you because she said something that was so freaking obvious anybody could see. It's like, yes, this league was built on the backs of black women who contributed. Need I remind people who started the WNBA, the core group they started it around. It was Cheryl Swoops, it was Lisa Leslie, and it was Rebecca Lobo. Two of those three are black women, and the history of the game is littered with black women who have made contributions. She said a long time ago, kate Leclark did that her favorite player ever was Maya Moore. So this is just so laughable and it's so predictable. And now Riley Gaines, who honestly she needs to thank trans athletes, because what if it wasn't for the trans swimmer she lost to, we wouldn't even know who she was and at all like and Megan Kelly.

Who I also heard, has something to say about this.

You know, hey, I'm sorry that she's not She doesn't hate black people the way that you y'all wish that she did.

I mean, look look at this, so many people were hitting her. Y'all go to buy iPad. While so disappointing, you cave into the made up fantasy world with delusional left. I was such a big fan of you, not because you're white, because you're majorly talented food. It's a whole bunch of black it's a whole bunch of other white women in a WNBA who can ball and then goes. Unfortunately, your ego and attitude is starting to stink more than your skills. Shine, You had a huge platform to bring people together. Instead you're choosing to push people apart. There is some mother dumb ass CC. Have you not learned seventy six million people just voted no unvoke, and yet for Trump you cave.

You blew it.

Somebody else Nope, no longer supporting you.

You cave.

What's wrong with your teammates threatening you? How sad I was about to buy jersey for my daughter. Hell no, I'm back to the shadows of the WNBA. She really betrayed her whole fan base. WTF.

At least we know she's in it for the money now nice time magazine, though, I guess all other people who defended you for how bad you were treated have not been betrayed by youth such a disappointment.

Just go ahead and say we are some racist crackers.

I mean they literally told on themselves rolerd because if okay, the comment that you just read a moment ago, the person who tweeted that or whatever post social media posts they put that in, they said that we thought.

You brought people together again.

All those people who are complaining and who are now anti Caitlin Clark, Why are you so mad that she actually showed respect for the women that were before who happened to be black. Don't you think you need to be asking yourself, what is it about black women that so bothersome to me that the idea of someone else being respectful of their contributions is so off putting that I would sit up here and be upset and mad about it, to the point where I won't buy my little girl a jersey like your little girl can't idolize someone who respects other races and other cultures. I thought, that's what y'all wanted. Y'all said that y'all want unifying. You know, y'all want a unifier. Y'all want somebody that brings people together. What part of being brought together is being able to appreciate, respect, and understand other cultures. And you know, I thought the Time magazine piece, I think what they also hated. Rolling on top of her showing respect to black women is the fact that she debunked a lot of the narratives that they let run around in their.

Head for the last year about this woman. You know, this idea.

They were the ones that ran with this idea that Kaitlin Clark was being targeted by these big bad black lesbians and black female basketball players.

And she said very plainly in this piece she never felt.

Targeted, and all of those kind of silly ideas they had running around in their mind that she was somehow being bullied and discriminated against by these black women, and that wasn't the case at all. In fact, it's black women quoted in the piece talking about what a great teammate she was, and you know how they, you know, tried to help her transition into the WNBA and all these things. So it's just not even the fact that she is showing some kind of respect for these other players in the league and the players that came before. It's also the fact that they have nothing that they can use to hate on the league that most of them weren't even a fans a fan of, or players they weren't a fan of. They just liked the idea of being able to rub Caitlyn Clark's success and her popularity in the faces.

Of black women that they couldn't stand to begin with.

Here were the tweet from super white woman Meghan Kelly, you know, you know, the one who actually said that Santa was white and blackface was cool. Look at this, She's on the knee all but apologizing for being white and getting attention The self flatulation, the old police, pay attention to the black players, who are really the ones you want to celebrate. Condescending, fake transparent said no, no, no, you're fake Meghan because you failed at NBC because the public saw you as nothing but being a lousy right wing Heck, that's why you couldn't cut it at NBC. And it was stupid to pay you all that money, and they gave you six sixty nine million dollars to leave. And so you suck, Megan Kelly. And so you're showing us exactly who you are. You're showing us that your white kate matches your white hood. That's all is is. And so so, I mean, they are so angry because she's talking about the history of the game. You cannot talk about the history of women's basketball and not talk about the great black ball players. She's just stating a fact.

Yeah, I mean, that was it.

It was just all facts.

And you know the other thing too, Roland and Katelyn Clark actually said this in the time piece, is how insulted she felt by a lot of the narratives.

That people created about her.

And now all of a sudden, you have people on the right like Megan Kelly, like Riley Gaines, like I saw being Shapiro. He of course had stupid things to say, because that's what he does.

Now they're all.

Trying to act like she was somehow bullied and pressured into making these comments. So not only are they upset that she has showed a level of respect and knowledge of the game of women's basketball, they have played Caitlin Clark like she's some mindless puppet that can't think for herself if you know even a little bit about the game. As you said, there are so many black shoulders the game has been built and built upon. And that's not to say that there hasn't been some tremendous, iconic white players in the league. Diana Tarassi is one, for example, Brianna Stewart.

I mean, there's you know, Anne Myers.

I mean, there's a ton one of white players that have contributed to the game of women's basketball, but a great many of them have also been black.

And that's all she was saying.

And so as a lot of us in the sports called out, especially a lot of us black journalists, we called this out a long time ago, you know, we said hit that basically, we see what you all are doing.

You're using Caitlyn Clark to get your racist takes off.

And now that you find out that she doesn't support that nonsense, now you upset and you mad at her, and you want to call her weak minded, and you want to say that she's being pressured and bullied and she's gonna woke and all these other euphemisms for the fact that you just a racist and she just exposed you even more.

Simple as that. Jabelle will appreciate it. Thanks, Buch anytime. Appreciate it. Let me go to my Pamela. Y'all of course a lavatoria Burt Jones. Right now, we got Joy Chaney, we got doctor Greg Carr. Let's get right into it long. This tweet here pretty much sums up what Jamail Will just seeing the person says, I hate Kaitlyn Clark now because it turns out she's not a racist piece of shit like me as I assumed she was. That is so disappointing. She's canceled eighty to ninety percent of conservative America right now cry more yu cons that's all they are.

Yeah, the entire thing is kind of a racial raw shack test in terms of people applying the thoughts that are in their head onto someone else. I mean, every time any of this has come up with Kaitlyn Clark is because some journalists has asked her about it, or somehow it's brought up by some sort of outside force. But what it all really boils down to is that there's a lot of people out there that want this discussion because of the commerce of content.

I think the media wants this discussion.

I don't know that Kaitlyn Clark really wanted a discussion, but now they have it, and now they're not.

Getting the answer that they want.

And it is really sort of built on the idea that she was supposed to be the you know, certainly the idea that she was, you know, the best player. They wanted her to be the best player in women's basketball and superior to all others and all of that, and then that didn't happen. She loses the national championship, but then she comes back into the professional women's basketball league does really well.

But the thing that's so funny about it is that it.

Sort of reminds me of so many things when you anytime you have a white person who champions or platforms black people, in this way.

They often are sort of called crazy, you know, so you know she must be confused or her handlers.

I mean, the Charlie Kirk thing is particularly revealing, although he's an idiot, so you can't really read too deeply into anything that he says, but the idea that somehow there's something wrong with her or her handlers, like they sat down that night before and made this decision to make these statements. Because of course, Charlie Kirk, being a racist who is completely obsessed on this subject matter, thinks that everybody else is obsessed with the subject matter and they're not.

She's just speaking as another human being.

So it is fascinating to see the sort of rush at test quality of this moment. Uh and it is quite satisfying, I have to say, it really is.

I mean, these people, here's a deal. Joy. We always knew who they were. We always knew, and all they're doing is is Jamel said, they're just telling on themselves, right, That's right. I mean, this is what we always know.

And you know, I talk gender, and part of this is about wanting women to fight, wanting women to be angry with each other, wanting to pick heterosexual women against lesbian women, trans women against this women, black women against white women, anything. And if it was two white women, they'd come up with something for them to fight about. You know, this, this is race, this is gender, this is everything we saw in the election. It's better if they keep us at each other's throat. And what Caitlin said was no, Mas, I'm not doing this. I'm not fighting with Taylor Swift. I'm not fighting against Kamala Harris. I'm not fighting against other black women in the league. She still also owned her own greatness too, write she said, I earned everything I got, but I can still acknowledge and celebrate the success of other women because I do it on their shoulders. Good for her, I have always let her. I like her even more now. And it's a reminder for us to never to fall privy and pray to their efforts to divide us. That's what it's about. And the people that are posting their trolls their trolls, and they're just angry because Caitlyn showed them up.

I'm just laughing. Adam Grigg and I always say this here. I always appreciate when a racist shows me exactly who they are.

I agree I'd laugh at him if it wasn't so boring. There's never been a time when we, whoever the hell that is, were united. So the idea of attempts to dividing us, that's just a historical And let's be very clear. She is an avatar, she is a representative, and there's nothing she can do about that. She's made some statements that are important to make because it's like saying, oh, the sun is in the sky, yeah, and people say yes, everybody, calm down.

Let me be very clear.

Sports is a proxy for war, okay, and there's one team in a war.

Of white supremacy. It's whiteness.

You put the verses there, and it's everybody. Not Detroit versus everybody, but alway to respect to our sister Jamail Hill, but whiteness versus everybody. Let's be very clear. I've been following the women's game since my girl was a forward for Tennessee State's Tiger gyms. Oh, by the way, parenthetically, HBCUs have a history women's teams of not being lady anything else. Tiger jims, tiger bells, tackle sharks. They have their own identity. You won't find that in white teams in college. But my point is this, I'm old enough to remember the American Basketball League. That's the league that was partially owned by the players that David Stern and his friends put out of business by creating the WNBA at a loss for years because they didn't want any type of formation that would put them out of business.

This is a race war.

Caitly mccarr is an avatar, and this has always been a case. This is Texas Western versus the University of Kentucky. This is Bird and Magic that revived the NBA. This is Tiger Woods versus everybody. At the end of the day, you gotta make a choice, okay, And my question is very simple, when are we going to be more sophisticated about this and make these people stop playing in our faces? Bill Belichick then signed for the University of North Carolina because he's taking the NFL to the college of ranks where it already is, and he's not even trying to pretend about it.

These aren't student athletes, their employees.

Ky La Clark is an employee, and guess who's not gonna stand against her sports illustrated the WNBA. No, I'm sorry, who's not gonna stand against those white nationalists, all those people who are looking to profit from those white nationalists who will say, Okay, that was great, she said that, but let's be clear, we've never been on the side of black women, and that includes black queer women.

We've never been on the side of black people and will never be on the side of black people.

And once they figure out what she said will test against their market value, they may ask her to go in and we all agree, But could you be a little quiet because we want those races coming to our games at some point?

Can we just stop playing like we don't understand what this is?

Well, we know exactly what it is. And Megan Kelly could just go to hell. She really can, She really can. She shows on a daily basis how trash she really really is. But then again, we've always known that. All Right, I got to go to a break. We can come back, folks. We're gonna talk about the great Nicky Jill Vone. She passed away at the age of eighty one. That's next right here. Roland Martin on the filtered on the Black Star Network.

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I had been trying to get a record deal for a long time.

You know.

When I finally got signed to the Motown record label in two thousand.

And three, I was thirty four to thirty five years old, and.

Up until that time, I had been trying to get record deals the traditional way. You know, you record your demo, you record your music, and you send it, you know, to the record labels or maybe somebody a friend of a friend knows somebody that works for, you know, the record label. And really chemistry was that was my last stitch effort at being in the music business.

How long have you been trying.

I have been trying since I was since I was a teenager.

Wow, and and and you know, and I'm grateful that it didn't.

I'm grateful that it happened when it happened, because I wasn't prepared, you know, as a teenager to embrace all that comes with a career.

In the in the music industry.

This is Sambula Man, and this is David Mann, and you're watching roland Mark on theater.

Oh the last couple of days. Tribute has been pouring in all around the world for Nikki Giovanni. She passed with the age of eighty one due to lung cancer. She was a fierce writer, poet, activist, you name it. She talked about race, she talked about gender, She talked about all sorts of things, and it was always delight to hear her, to read her work, and so many people have been talking about what she has meant to them as individuals. But one of the places where she really touched folks at Virginia Tech. She taught there for more than thirty years, showing us right now, doctor Laura Bellmont, dean of the College of Little Arts and Human Science, as a professor of history there as well, glad to have you here. It's always it has to be just so interesting of yours student, and you get to sit in a class with a true legend and icon, and you get to see him up close, you get to talk to them, walk the same halls with them. She was truly beloved by the Virginia Tech family.

She absolutely was.

She was unforgettable. And the impact she made on the Hokey nation, both in the classroom and beyond, I don't know if it will ever be matched.

What.

First of all, what does she teach there.

She came to us in nineteen eighty seven as a creative writing professor, and she and her partner Genny Fowler, were instrumental in making our creative writing program a real force to be reckoned with We have a significant percentage of underrepresented students in that and Nikki.

Certainly was a huge draw for that.

They were.

Iconic figures in the English department and the college and the university itself. But a lot of what Nikki did that affected people's lives didn't happen necessarily in the classroom, although if you were lucky enough to get into her class that was certainly an unforgettable experience. She spent a lot of time, for example, mentoring student athletes. She did a lot of outreach with children in the Blacksburg area. Just last summer, the college hosted a summer camp for rural middle schoolers and she came in with these sixth, seventh, and eighth graders and read her poetry and interacted with them, and as you might imagine, they were pretty awestruck. But she was also an extraordinary mentor for early career faculty. And if you ran into her in the community, if you could maybe not trip over your tongue and fan girl on her, she was always very warm and gracious and happy to interact and she will be deeply missed.

I take it. There were also those moments in faculty meetings where she was never called shi.

Well, anybody who thinks that freedom of speech on campus is in danger never interacted with Nikki Giovanni. She said what she thought and never failed to speak.

Truth to power, whatever the issue, whatever the context.

There were a lot of people, obviously she had huge fans around the world. But after the tragic mass shooting on the campus in two thousand and seven, when all eyes were on the memorial service that took place there in Nikki Giovanni delivered these words at that Sarah that really shook folk to their core. Guys, go to play it, Ladies and gentlemen.

Virginia Tech University Distinguished Professor of English and celebrated author Nikki Giovanni will deliver closing remarks.

We are Virginia Tech. We are sad today and we will be sad for quite a while.

We are not moving on.

We are embracing our morning. We are Virginia Tech. We are strong enough to stand tall, tearlessly. We are brave enough to bend to cry, and sad enough to know we must laugh again.

We are Virginia Tech.

We do not understand this tragedy. We know we did nothing to deserve it, but Neither does a child in Africa dying of AIDS. Neither do the invisible children walking the night away to avoid being captured by a rude army. Neither does the baby elephant watching his community be devastated for ivory. Neither does the Mexican child looking for fresh water. Neither does the Appalachian infant killed in the middle of the night in his crib, in the home his father built with his own hands, being run over by our boulder because the land was destabilized.

No one deserves a tragedy.

We are Virginia Tech, the Hoky Nation embraces our own and reaches out with open heart and hands to those who offer their hearts and minds. We are strong and brave, and innocent and unafraid. We are better than we think and not quite what we want to be. We are alive to the imagination and the possibility. We will continue to invent the future through our blood and tears, through all this sadness.

We are the Hokies.

We will prevail.

We will prevail, We will prevail. We are Virginia. Ten. You followed up dropped the Mike Mummy.

Absolutely a really nonparael ability to eloquently speak to a community that was reeling in deep pain. And every April sixteenth, Nicky's voice becomes the voice of commemorating that singular awful moment in our university's history. And she provided tremendous comfort and gave incredible expression to a community devastated by loss.

When you think about you mean interactions, what does the cherish memory? What stands out the most for you?

To know Nikki was to forever be changed by her.

One never knew what she.

Would say, and you could go from laughing so hard you were crying one moment to the next moment her posing a question or saying something that you found yourself haunted by months later because it profoundly challenged your view of the world. We were so fortunate to have this global legend among us, and she will never be forgotten.

All right, doctor Bellmont, we appreciate it. Thanks for us sharing your thoughts about the legend, Donick, Nikki Giovanni, thanks so much, rolland I appreciate it. Thank you so very much, folks. A little bit earlier, I caught up with a doctor Michael Eric Dyson. He sent us give me one second and get it ready. He sent us video. He's actually in flight, and so I said, hey, go ahead and drop us a video, and he did, and so here it is. All right, let me see what's going on with his video.

Here, give the dirty camera and the noise.

Okay, okay, here it is now, let's come back to it.

Here we go, y'all.

Forgive the dirty camera and the noise in the background and my scruffy outfit.

But I'm in the airport.

Just wanted to send these few words to brother Roland celebrating the great Nicki Giovanni.

I went to.

Knoxville in nineteen seventy nine, and Nicki Giovanni, of course, was intimately associated with Knoxville, and so that was one of my proudest moments to recognize that I was going to college in the very home base of one of the greatest poets.

Of the Black Arts movement. The Black Arts movement, as you know.

Was a rhetorical fusillade against the white supremacist discourse of the nineteen sixties and seventies and a recuperation of the ethic and esthetic of black culture as the armor against the forcible implosion of white supremacy.

In the brains of so many black people.

She wanted to help occupy the black mind with fox ideas, sensibilities, and realities that drew from our experience. Think about all those albums she made long before it was popular to do so. I mean, think about the poem to a Refair and so many others that she recorded that were spiritual nourishment to those of us who were.

Young and coming up in the seventies.

And of course I got a chance to meet her and become a friend, and I talked to her on several locase Asians. I even went to Virginia Tech and gave lectures there and we hung out and had a great time. And I remember her love and commitment to young people. I mean, with that tupac tattoo, she said, because somebody's got to call an mf an.

You're talking about keeping it real.

Before there was hip hop, before there was gangst the rap, before there was hardcore lyricism, Nicki Giovanni was doing that. She could do that in the streets, she could do that in the studio, she could carry her poetry, and then she could sit down with James Baldwin and have a conversation on television that got transcribed into a book that is a remarkable testament to an older and younger artist of our African American descent telling the truth about what they failed, not always agreeing.

In fact, she schooled him.

On some stuff as well, and he was receptive to that because they were beautiful in their intent to edify black people. Recently, I got her to go to a tech company and deliver a Black History Month speech.

They had plenty of dough. They were willing to pay her.

She refused to take the money, I said, miss Giovanni. I said, they got plenty of dough, so please don't hold back. She said, Eric, because that's what you called me, Eric. She said, Eric, It's not about them, it's about me. And I don't want to take money to represent for my people and to tell the truth to these folk who need to hear it. And I don't want any barrier to come in the way of me delivering my message. That's the kind of woman she was. That's the kind of tall spirit she remains even in death. The length of her influence, the depth of her power and presence and used to inspire us.

I love you, Nikki Giovanni. Like cotton candy on a rainy day.

You spoke about that, but you remain a beautiful, ineffable, essential contribution to our humanity as black people and to our willingness to use rhetoric, literature, and literacy to fight back against white supremacy and black bush wire capitulation to the premises and practices of a dominant colonial culture. She decolonized the black mind long before that became a thing. Rest in peace, you great poet, you great soul, you great songstress, you great lyricists, your great sister. We love you now, our great ancestor, continue to lead and guide us home.

I first met Nikki when I was in to sicag Go.

Uh.

That was a party and a shit a book signing at the home of Rinaldo Glovery. He was a star basketball player at Fisk. He was an accomplished attorney. He was one of the investors of the Chicago Defender and got an opportunity to uh to chat with her, and my god, she Nikki Givonne had had a huge laugh, a huge smile, uh, and she was not always serious. She'd loved to have fun when y'all. When y'all see the interview that I did with her, uh. Six years ago. You'll realize that the quote, the quote Michael Dyson was talking about, I'm trying to get a I'm trying to get that on video. So I had sent Tavis smiling a DM and an email hit him on Twitter, and I thought I had tab it his number. I don't, uh.

And uh.

So it was in two thousand, Greg, Joe and Lauren at USC and uh, Tam has had one of these State of the Black Union or State of the Black American discussions at USC. And I believe it was Stanley Crouch, Nicki Giovanni, it may have been one other person, and the moderator was the late Great Dodtor Charles Ogletree. And uh. Doctor Ogletree asked Nicki Giovanni.

Uh.

Uh.

And I think Noel Jones may have been on that penalt too. Uh, he asked Niki Giovanni. He said, Nikki, why do you like to poc Shakur so much? And without missing the beat? And when y'all see the interview, I told her this, she said again. So for everybody out there who keep telling let me ro stop cussing, go ahead and turn the radio, turn it down. You don't want your kids to hear what I'm about to say. I'm about to quote Nicki Giovanni and what she said in this form. So I'm gonna give y'all five four three two one. So he asked her that, and she said, Charles, somebody got to call a motherfucker a motherfucker. Greg that So what I told one of my top three all time great quotes. You could take doctor King, Reverend Jackson, everybody. She made the cut in the top three because it cut man, and the room erupted, just erupted when she said.

That, Yeah, man, that is Nicki Giovanni. That is Nicki Giovanni. Since she burst on the scene in the seventies. As you said that her brother went to FIST. She's a FIST graduate. And of course, like Mike Dyson out of East Tennessee, Knoxville, that has been here since she was a teenager man, since she turned, since they turned Gwynland Brooks, who was at Wonderpeter Surprise Black Women Poet in nineteen fifty at that conference at Fisk when they had the Black Writers Conference back and I guess that was sixty seven or sixty eight, and Gwenland Brooks was already black, but she got blacker after hanging out with Nicki Giovanni and people talking about this ball on conversation with her, and it's a very important conversation, but it's more important to place it in the context. Nicki Giovanni was still in her twenties when Ellis Hasler from Here from DC had a show called Soul in New York, and Nicki Giovanni was like the correspondent. She talked to Mhammad Ali, she talked to James Baldwin, she talked, She was in conversation across the board with so many people and she consistently pushed them. Mike is right, she was going to be who she was going to be.

My favorite.

Nikki Giovanni is from the Black Arts movement period. You know, she Mary Baraka Sonya Sanchez, who still walks to Earth. Just the ninetieth birthday, Nikki Giovanni, Nicki Rosa, who can forget ego tripping if she did nothing else to the culture but contribute ego tripping. She was like twenty nine years old when she wrote that, and her album's Truth is on the Way. So yeah, I mean, anytime you around her and in with this, you have that sense that she was going to be who she was going to be. She got a thug life tattooed. She came to Howard one time. We all sitting there and these young people say, wait, you get that. She said, Tupac tells it like it is. We don't have to agree on everything. But what I love about him is his spirit. And so she was going to play it straight down the line. And it's just, you know, a great loss. But you know, she lived an incredible life. She beat cans Or twice. It came back again. She continued to write. She got another book coming out next year called her last book, She Fought to the End, Brother Well, a life well lived.

So when y'all see the interview, we barely talked about her book that came out. Then, I just want to let y'all know we talked about food. She said, I'm telling y'all going Joe, and she was like yeah, she said, yeah, maya angelus. She thought she can cook, so she really can't cook it. So, I mean it was hilarious and it was just I mean, we laughed so much in that end of you uh. And again I think that that's the reagonally that's important. Joy it's because I think a lot of times when you look at figures like Nikki Giovanni, people assume that they're always serious and tough and all of that. No, she loved to laugh and play and joke and crack jokes. When we were at Ronaldo Glover's house, she was telling the story about how she was at Fisk and then she left Fisk because some of the professors did not particularly like her because of her because of her sexuality. She was like, yeah, I wasn't one of their favorites. Uh, And so she was. She was very like, she was like very clear in terms of how she just didn't abide by also the respectability politics at Fisk at that time in terms of dress code and the other So she bounced, uh. And then when they sought it up a bit, then she came back got her degree there and so uh, they still laud her as you know, one of their great graduates. But she held firm when it came to her point of view and her standards.

Well, let me tell you what.

When I heard this year passed, I wrote that heaven was vibing tonight thinking about that conversation with James Baldwin. And then you're bringing up a conversation with my mentor, Charles Ogutree, who we.

Lost last year.

I mean, heaven is vibing right now and they are having deep conversations.

You know.

It also is a reminder of what happened to mean, how lucky we were to have her with us for as long as we did. So many of our luminarias, so many of our great thinkers, don't survive.

They don't make it the pressures of who they.

Are or just you know, you know, the fact that people target them means that they are impactful, but they have a short life. She had a long life and really gave us an opportunity to see what happens when you have the fullness of life and you can reflect a different stages of your life upon history and contribute to so many different groups that you wouldn't have if you were only stuck in time at a young age. We got to see what a seventy something in that Icky Giovanni would say upon reflecting in her sunset years, So you know, what a privilege and also just a reminder of queer black people and the contributions that they make not only to art, but to the intellectual fabric of our nation.

I mean, what a great honor it was and black women.

Just the deepness she was a humanist and when you talk about her, the fact that she had a good time and that she laughed. Of course, no one who really understands, no one who's really a poet, no one who can really break down the human experience as she does and really pick it up, pardon and reflect on it can do that. If you don't love people, you know, you have to be deep inoid and you have to love people.

And she did that.

And so you know, and I'm so glad that we get a chance to celebrate her life. And there are people who didn't know her before who are going to know her now through our lauding of her, of her legacy.

You know what, Lauren, when I think about again, just the whole slew of generation of greats who are becoming ancestors. But what just out at me is how they they were, how they were coming of age, and they were all moving and interacting with one another. I mean, when Greg talked about that show Soul, I was in a group chat and Michael Harriet was telling us that they about forty or fifty episodes of that on Peacock. They're streaming it. It's on Peacock, and people have an opportunity to watch them those shows, and a lot of black people today when you think about that show was out and there were other shows that were coming out of New York City and Boston and the places. I mean, really, what black people they have to understand is that King gets killed in sixty eight, says Stayed. In sixty eight. The Colonel Commission report comes out in sixty eight saying that there were two Americas on one white, one black. When you go to the early to mid seventies, and when you look at these public affairs shows, when you look at the fact that Julian Bond was a host on Saturday Night Live, when you think about when you think about be on those public affairs shows, when you think about just the energy that was happening, when you think about the dialogue and the conferences, when you go back and look at all all in the Family and the Jeffersons and and the and and the dialogue that was the that was happening on those shows. I mean, that was an unbelievable period. And I think what was also important is that figures like Nikki Giovanni, and they were with the Balls of the World and so many others. I mean, they were basically they were they I don't want to use the phrase they were challenging each other, but I think, for lack of a better phrase, they were operating in a time where you had what I call it literary versus, where where the work of this person was causing this person say, I got to raise my game, and iron was sharpening iron and things along those lines, and they were having real intellectual conversations in public space. Is what's happening today, I dare say, doesn't even remotely compare well, it was like, doesn't come close.

What's happening today is uh.

You see, we live in a society with a level of distraction that is just off the chain. And you know when you find out from like whistleblowers from Facebook, Francis Hougan who testified in front of Congress that Instagram was built to effectively keep you on the platform for as long as possible.

So all of this is a game of distraction.

And you take that and of course YouTube and everything else, it's really hard to get back to a point where you are in a face to face dialogue with somebody, uh, in a way that yields what you were just talking about. When you have a group of people who have something in common artistically or they're all writers.

I think you know that that.

Phenomena happened in the sixties as well, happened the civil rights movement. You have the face to face conversation of the in person conversation and yields a different result about you know, what comes from that and what comes from the digital world that we live in is something quite different, and I'm not sure it's better sometimes. I mean, there's certainly some elements of it that are beneficial, but there's something going on with the sort of lack of connection and communication that we used to have in society in the seventies and the sixties, some of which I was not here for, but you can certainly sense it from the art that resulted. So somebody like Nikki Giovanni, as greg was saying, somebody in her twenties that can yield something so brilliant at such a young age. That requires a level of concentration. I mean, you have to be thinking about the world and putting it on paper, and that is becoming increasingly difficult to do in the digital age because of the level of distraction. So yeah, to your point, Roland, there is definitely a difference. I think we're going to see it on the back end. We're probably already seeing it because a lot of these distractions with regard to our cell phones and our iPads and everything else, started about, you know, fifteen twenty years ago, so you see the result of those distractions twenty and thirty years later, So that that is definitely the case, no doubt about it.

I mean, I guess for the reason, the reason that is so important to meet Greg is because you know, last night Bishop Horace Sheffield had me in Detroit and we were at a library that was actually named after his sister. And the thing that was interesting about that is that we were having a it's a lecture series. It's a free lecture series that they have for the public. And Cornel West will be there in a couple of weeks. My cleric dice in next month and it Lavert's going to be there in March, and uh, this is just this was this is just a short video uh I took last night of the audience there and and the thing about it it was. I mean the conversation, Uh, that was one on one and you know, young brother was asking asking me questions there and and when I think about the Giovannis of the world, I think about I think about that scene in Reggie Hutler's movie Thurgood. I'm sorry, Marshall, and it was it was it was a club scene, Uh, Zora, Neil Hurston, Langston Hughes, Thurgood Marshall.

Uh.

There may have been one other figure I can't remember. And I sit there and go, man, what were those conversations like When I think about out Ruby Die and Ossi Davis and Dick Gregory and Hair Belafonte, doctor King and uh, Diane Carrol, Sidney Poitier, what were those conversations like? And and and when I so, when I bring it present day and Greg, I started thinking about folks who I know that are in the entertainment space, folks who are in the media space, folks who are in the art space. I'll be honest with you, those things don't happen and and and and the challenging and the pushing uh and the I mean having these high intellectual conversations that got that that that would getting loud that were getting noisy. But it's not like you would hate each other. But the whole point of it was, uh, you were challenged on every aspect of your point of view, and like I said, iron sharpened iron. That's why I believe, that's why a Nikki Giovanni could write what she wrote what she wrote at twenty nine.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, you know, it's it's quite ironic that you were in Detroit, which fights with Chicago. What's the black is city. They have an argument to make in terms of the Black arts movement. The institution's sister, Nikki's good friend, Hockey Maabuti, was coming up on his eightieth birthday there in Chicago with Third World Press, the great Dudley Randall and Broadside Press out of Detroit, where Nikki Giovanni published some of her earliest poetry.

You know, those institutions really created.

As you say, these kind of hot houses where women and men could get together, where people could get together in the community and push each other to this greatness. There's a reason why the Black Arts movee. People talk about the harl of Renaissance, and it's a movement. But if I've had to pick one one moment in time. It's really the nineteen sixties and seventies in the Black Arts movement in terms of our cultural meaning making Lauren, what you said, I wrote that down. You always had these quotables. I love it thinking about the world and putting it on paper.

That is what they did. And I don't think we have any less ability now.

But the reason why this is a forgettable age and we'll be forgotten if the specie survives, is because of these institutions that fransis talking is talking about and others are talking about. It has decimated our capacity to be still, to observe and to be in conversation with each other and to make meaning. I would encourage everyone, if you haven't seen it to look at the documentary. I think it's on going to mark that one and the one on Sonya sand Chaz Bad Sonya sand Chaz.

Gives you a glimpse into that period. Seeing Sonya sand Chez is the case.

She cycles through the Nation of Islam, she comes out of you know, she comes out of that and moves into another space and keep going and keeps going, and she's teaching each generation. I'm saying all this to say that what we have now is academics, brilliant young academics who know nothing about building community, who now treat that generation and treat that era like they are raiding a graveyard to present to their master super smart books that nobody reads that completely misinterpret what that was about.

Nikki Giovanni was about the people.

She was about her people, and when we slice and dice it in the academic jargon of today's kind of movements, what we leave is the fact that those movements that we stand on the shoulders of were all about building black community critically, collectively. And so for you to be in Detroit at that moment done surprised me that that room was full, because Detroit knows about building community. And in many ways, Nikki Jemiony traces one of her great lines of thought and development to exactly what you said, that steel sharpening steel that took place in the place that gave birth to the Nation of Islam, to gave birth to the Republic of New Africa, and the shrine of the Black Madonna Institutions are gonna save black people, not super smart Nigroes who ain't that smart.

In twenty twenty forties days.

The.

Conversation that people keep referencing and regarding her discussion on Sold with James Baldwin. The basis of that was Nikki Jiovanni's father often beat her mother, and Giovanni later said that either I was gonna kill him or I had to leave, but she actually did. She at fifteen left to go live with her grandparents. This six change here was so powerful. It's an hour and forty six have been a conversation. The full thing is on YouTube. As I said, I think it's streaming. All the episodes are streaming on Peacock. But what I've seen this clip. First of all, seeing this numerous times over the years, and what immediately jumps out at me, and again ask somebody who who's in television. First of all, I look at how this was shot. I look at how tight it was shot. This was a true one on one conversation. She's twenty nine, he's forty seven, and this dialogue was just unbelievable.

Listen to this fake it because we don't have dreams these days. How the hell can you have a dream for what?

Well, so everybody's everybody's driving, But let's.

Jive on that level. If I love you I can't lie to you.

Of course you can lie to me, and you will if you love me, and you're going off of Mattie someplace. You're lying to me, because what the hell do I care about the truth? I care if you're there, what Billy Holiday say? Hush now, don't explain, all right?

I accept that.

Of course, of course you'll me be cause I don't even wanna care. I thought, what does the truth matter? And why are you gonna be truthful with me when you lie to everybody else? You lied when you smiled at that cracker down the job right lot of me?

Smile?

Treat me the same way you would treat him. I can't treat you. You must him.

You must, because I've caught the I've caught the frowns and the anger.

He's happy with you, of course he doesn't know you were right happy, you granted anymore all day long?

You come home when I catch out, because I love you, I get least of you. I get, I get the very minimum. And I'm saying, you know, fake it with me? Is that too much of the black woman to ask of the black man for ten years so that we can get a child on his feet?

That says, yeah.

Father smiled at mother. He talked to me about school today. Who cares that you can read or can't read? Most Americans can't read. Most people can't read. They look at the pictures.

Ayb aybe, I know what you're saying. I know exactly what you're saying. Like I don't just degree, but you know, I'm gonna be honest and think about it. Really, I'm not so sure that that is a human possibility. I have to smile all day and the count on the job, performan You don't understand why I'm smiling, and I was. I want to smile and smiing that babies and shoes. I can't give a performance all day in the job and come home and give a performance on all night in the house.

Okay, so one of the performances will start.

Yes, So that was so again, I think I think what makes that so riveting joy is not just a conversation, but also how it was shot. And I can tell you there's so many times when when we're shooting stuff, I'm always like, yo, push in, push in, and push in, because like you're literally you're inside of the box and you and you see every bit of emotion on her face and his face, and it's just captivating.

Uh.

The reality is you're not getting those discussions even remotely. You're not.

You're not.

And let me tell you.

There's a moment where she says, fake it with me, where she gets really emotional and it's so good and when he says, I can't do it. I've watched that at least ten times this week, but I've watched it many times.

But also hold but also also I keep seeing this on social Okay, can people today and let me just I don't want to cuss people out, but I keep seeing this on social media, and I'm seeing this in our general. Can y'all stop saying, Oh, she cooked him, she didn't, This wasn't.

They can't stop saying it.

See. See, this is the thing that that this is a thing that pisces me off with folks today. Yeah, we want every intellectual conversation to be a battle, Yes, to be a fight. It's not if you actually shut up, if you actually just shut up and watch what you What you're seeing is you're seeing Nikki Giovanni speaking through the pain of a woman, of a young girl who saw her mama being beaten by her father being grossly disrespected. And when she's talking about faked, you're seeing James Baldwin wrestle with I can't do that to a black woman. Now, first of all, we're seeing two gay people having the conversation. She's talking about a man to the black woman, and he's talking about the black man to the black He's talking about the black woman to the black man. Right, So people need to stop with oh man, she cooked them. No, they were both grappling with the very same issue, yet bringing a different set of emotions to the conversation. I'm just sick of these people who they can't watch it and not say, let me listen and understand in a deeper meaning what they're talking about versus oh man, she cooked oh man, he had it.

No, And it was so deep because some because in many ways they were both still closeted, right.

And like I mean, so just just so so so deep.

But the reason part of this is like the decline of the liberal arts education, where we don't our kids just don't sit and debate each other enough.

Oh hell no, oh, not not even right, not even yeah, yeah, I mean, but like if.

They assume if you have a disagreement with someone. If you have a conversation with someone somewhat like what you tried to you know develop here right with having three panelists plus you sometimes with a guest, they think that you're arguing, or that you disagree, or that you hate one another. No, no, no, we're having a conversation. It may even get animated, but we're having a conversation and going trying to go deeper. The only place where I really see that happening now is sometimes on podcasts. If you have not seen Ezra Kline with Taiahashi Coats talking about his new book that is really deep and long format where they really unpack and they really debate with each other.

But that does not often happen. It is really quick bites.

People are afraid to go deep because they feel like they will be soundbited and someone will take the one thing that they said and make that the fullness of what they said Orler continued the conversation.

Or they actually are afraid to challenge and be challenged. I mean reason, the reason I the reason I was sitting here laughing, The reason I was sitting here laughing and Greg know where I'm going, The reason I'm sitting here laughing is because so that was a screening in DC for twelve years of Slave. And I watch movies a lot different my wife gets, she says, I get her nerves because I'm actually watching the content but also the technical. And I was watching how Stephen Queen used sound and used silence in these really long sections where you were like, okay, shit, they're gonna switch the shot that were like, damn, how long we're gonna keep sitting here? But the whole point for you to hear the crickets and things like that able to do do vernatid the exact same thing in Queen Sugar when you actually when they would use the wind and all that sort of stuff, and it was just very interesting how they use it. So so when the movie was over, we had a Q and D and so Greg, you had some what was it your class?

What was it?

Yeah, some students said One of my students, who's now on faculty at Howard, Shenise Thompson got up and was talking about the She said, we still slaves, were still slaves because of the prison industrial complex. She laughs about that now, but we would know each other had she not gotten up right here.

So she got up. She got up and she said that we're all slaves. And I was like, oh, hell no, I ain't no slaves. I'm like, I ain't in prison by damn thing, and so and so that's so that led to this just like this uproar from her and Greg got into it, and I was like, man, I don't give a damn what none of y'all say, and so and so then so like the so people in the room were like oh and so then it went to social media. Oh yeah, yeah, I want to see I want to see you to make Greg Car And again me, I was like, who the hell is Gred Car?

Bring his ass on the show?

Right?

I didn't give I was like, I was like, let's go.

And these people were like, oh no, no. I was like I don't know who that is, but hey, you want to go right, let's go right. And so that's so that's actually how Greg first came on the show. We met, right, But but it was a but it was it was a thing where I was gonna explain why no, I ain't no damn slave, because I talked about being free and and and the thing is, if if if people had not got more but think what I have understood is I was literally talking about being free financially, being free in terms of mind, not being not being imprisoned by being putting in boxes and things along those lines.

Uh.

And so it was so it was a really fascinating to get back and forth. And so so when you think about the Nikki Giovanni's of the world, and you think about and if you go through YouTube and these other things, and you look at a lot of these speeches and you look at a lot of these conversations. There's a video out there Lauren where she where she fires back at Bill Cosby of the comments that he made, and and and the thing and the thing is. And so the reason, like what I loved to love about Giovanni is the fearlessness, because I think the part of the problem that we have today, and this is why I thought it was so funny, uh, with that conversation with Greg Guy and the student, is that folk are afraid to go at prominent figures. Where I've always maintained, if you do good, I'll talk about you do bad, I talk about it the day I'll talk about you. You ain't nobody infallible. So I remember when I hit Oprah in the Chicago Defendant. People be like, oh my god, you criticized Oprah. I'm like, see, don't play my damn bills. And that was just so there's this theme and so Gio Bondio the world others they had no problem challenging major figures because they said, you deserve to be challenged like anybody else.

Yeah, well, challenging people in these days has a real world effect, as we found out last semester where we had a bunch of billionaires effectively threatened the degrees and threatened the livelihoods of students who are protesting the war in the Middle East. If you remember, Uh, so we have a situation I think again that goes back to social media where the cancel culture. The cancel culture situation means that when you criticize something I wouldn't even just say prominent people. If you make a controversial statement, you could end up paying for it fifteen and twenty years later, even if you made that statement as a teenager. We've seen a few people get upended by things that they wrote on social media when they were fifteen and sixteen years old.

And then we're going for a job at thirty thirty.

Something years old and then all of a sudden there was some controversy. And so what that has done is it is stifled debate, it's stifled criticism. It's stifled people challenging each other, either in person or in the virtual world on some digital platform. And I think that is that has been a huge problem. That's been a huge problem because what it does is it prevents us from having a discussion about something that might be wrong, or criticizing something or challenging something and having that other person challenge us back and say, well, this is why I feel this way, because everybody is too afraid to have the discussion in the first place. This happens all the time, and there's also a sort of a cancer that cancel culture comes with a virtue signaling package, and the verse virtue signaling package is basically that, you know, outrage culture has its benefits and being seen online being outraged about something gets you rewards. And we have seen this in big policy discussions with regard to serious issues that come up before Congress and everything else. But that entire package I think is stifling, stifling a lot of the types of things that creates someone like a Baldwin or a Giovanni. I mean that you need to have those discussions. You need to have hard discussions. You need to look people in the eye and say things and them not run out of the room on fire because they're offended or whatever.

So that is a difficult space.

And generally what I find now is to have that type of intimate discus you really have to know somebody really well to have it and know that that person isn't going to flip out. But it's complicated a lot of this. By the way, I'll give a shout out to Jonathan Hate. Jonathan Hate's book The Anxious Generation deals with a lot of these issues with regard to social media, uh, and how the generation got more anxious and more sensitive about criticism. And for academia, I know Greg can talk to this a lot better than I can. For academia. I think this has been problematic, but not just for academia.

Can I happen to say one thing?

Yeah, Charles Usher used to do this on campus with his Saturday school when I was there. We used to have deep conversations, we used to have controversial figures. We used to have dinners afterwards where we'd have that conversation. I don't know that it's still going on. I'm not quite sure, but I think it would be hard in this climate to the to my co analysts what they've also said. We and when people don't feel like they can have a conversation and survive a the words and.

Really debate and maybe even be a little wrong.

When they feel like.

They can't do that, then you have people parasites like Donald Trump, parasites like others who say, you know what, I'm gonna let you say whatever you want to say. They it confessed her because people feel hindered and frustrated. So you know, to what you said earlier tonight, if you're big and if you're a racist, gone say it so I can say what I want to say.

Call you the.

Mmephor if that's what it is, and we can have it out and that's okay, and we can live to fight another day about it. Rather you do it here than another ballot.

Michael Vick was on Urban VW with Don Lamarck King and Greg and he talked about being at Virginia Tech and NICKI Geovan listened to this because.

I know one of our great legends, the great Nikki Giovanni was on faculty at Virginia Tech for a number of years and so as we were coming in as.

Hey, brother vic, man, did you ever take a class with Nikki Giovanni? And your answer was the beauty? What you say, man?

I did?

I had her?

I think my.

Sophomore year I had a class with Nikki and she was so amazing that I used to, you know, I always set in the back of the class and never wanted to sit in the front. I used to pay attention to every word that came out of Nicki's mouth because she was just so legendary and you know, she spoke with you know, so much precision and value and everything was in volume. And I you know, she used to put us in groups and we used to have these big discussions and sometimes discussions will get they would get really crazy and heated and intense. And I just remember that it was a night class too, being just one of my favorite classes to go to, and that Virginia Tech. I won to wish I would have spent more time, you know, trying to be a better student, because I know I had it in me.

It was just football and it was it was overwhelming.

It was a lot to handle, but that class was the class that I was always in, and you know, she would allow me to miss here and there, but she always helped me accountable. Not for me, not just for me, but my teammates who you know, tried to cut class at times, and so she made sure we was always there in attendis man. So some of my fondest memories of being at Virginia Tech.

No doubt.

That's a beautiful thing. And I mean in the sense as well that we typically think of student athletes team. I've been teaching for a long time and I tell the students all the time who played football, basketball, track. So y'all end up being employees at the university. I don't know, first of all, how y'all do it, do all of that work and still come to class. But in that vein, you got what you needed to get at Virginia Tech. Man a relationship with Nigga Giovanni being in class like that. Look, you don't need another thing to do. But it seems to me there's a book in that between the two of y'all should collaborate on something at some point.

Because she just retired, Nikki gave me a lot of leadway. You know what, I think I got to air in her class.

See that's what I'm talking about.

Cause I was always prepared, and like I said, that was one of the classes I knew I couldn't.

She always called me out.

A Virginia Tech and a football team, and what you know, you got all these responsibilities. You got to be a leader in this and she always and she knew I was kind of shy and laid back, so she would always call on me to speak in the lead conversations.

And so.

You know, we had a really deep class man like we We had some amazing dialogue throughout those you know, throughout that year.

Thank you that with us.

That again, Michael Vick will start quarterback in Virginia Tech, of course, where Nikki gi Byne taught. Here's the thing that people don't think a lot of people realize. So when Ruth Simmons became president Privy A and M, she actually created an opportunity for Nicka Jiovonnie to be in residents at Prevy A and M. And you know, Greg, I remember one of those conversations we were having at Ronaldo Glover's house because she was being asked she was being asked about returning or teaching at HBCU, and I remember nick it was like no, because she was saying that a lot of the same politics that she dealt with as a student continues, and she felt that she would not have had the level of freedom of speech at an HBCU. It was a very interesting discussion that we had because she was talking about, you know, the funding and a lot of state schools and stuff along those lines. So she was like, now I'm gonna get to school in trouble.

Yeah. Man, this is the tragedy of black institutions.

This is the tragedy Ruce Simmons, of course, who went to Dilert her life, you know, coming out of Greatland, Texas and then going to Louisiana and go to Dilert. It all starts at the HBCU intellectually for her, in an academic sense, this is the tragedy. You're absolutely right about Nicki Giovanni's experience at FIST. He talked about that many times. But had it not been for that black space, you wouldn't have seen Niki Giovanni the way we see her. And as you said, sitting there with Mike Vick and of course, he had come in for like a ten minute conversation about his new documentary, and of course, if you haven't seen it, the Rise of Black Quarterback is remarkable piece of work he and his wife did together, and they collaborate with some others. But you know, I wanted to ask him about Niki Giovannie. As you see, that was the first question. He ended up staying for like thirty forty minutes. In fact, sway in the Morning was supposed to be in the studio of New York and he had to delay his show because Mike went to sit there. Because this is a conversation about you as a human being and as a student and having that relationship. So it's important for Nikki Giovanni's to be at Virginia Text and Mike Dyson's to be at Vanderbilt and Cornell West, to be at Union Theological Seminary, and IW fundamentally to my DNA, to myself reject the idea of ever teaching at any of those places. I taught at Ohio State, I taught at Temple when I was in graduate school, and I'm at Howard for a reason. I'm not there because I can't go anywhere else, because God knows I could. I am there because I want to be in a black space, and I'm saying that I ought to say this. Only in a black space can you work on the perfectibility of blackness. And when you showed that clip from Soul, I was so many things. As we are all thinking many things. I think about that show. You should see mister Soul. If y'all haven't seen that, that's the documentary that was done by Ellis Hazen's niece Melissa, where she shows the show.

You see Ellis haslip, a queer.

Man asking Lewis Ferrikin who is surrounded by the fruit of Islam and the MGT with some girls and training in the studio about the question of homosexuality. You see that can only be done in a black space, you understand, because then fair kind has to confront that question in community with a black man who is queer and grapple with it.

You're not gonna do that in no white space. I'm gonna tell you why.

Because the minute you raise that in a space like a Virginia Tech or Vanderbilt or Georgetown, and you picked the white school, here come everybody else wanting to talk about it.

Let me be very clear about this. We have no allies. We just saw that with the Caitlin Clark police.

Whatever Caitlin Clark says, it doesn't say she gonna be white and white women in America.

There is no allyship.

There.

There's a nominal allyship, but it's not gonna free us. When you saw Baldwin and Giovanni grappling two queer people who throughout their lives had more white partners than black ones, let's just be very candid about this. In a black space, what they are talking about is the potential of the perfectibility of blackness, because you see what blackness does.

It traps us. You cannot be human and be black.

It was designed to not be human in response to the only thing that can be human in a racial formation, which is whiteness. White means human, Black means anti human. So then black has to perform a superhumanity just to be able not to get knocked the f out, which means I can't come home and treat you the way I treat those white people because I'm trying to simply recover from that performance. So when Niki Giovanni asks James Baldwin about that, what she's asking is for him to be human. His response is, I can't be human. And the courage, finally of Nikki Giovanni is to be in a white space, a black space, in.

Whatever space that she has as a human being. That is her towering achievement.

However, this is the cost that comes at the American Negro, the African Negro, the Caribbean Negro, spins our entire existence, pleading for our humanity and helping perfect the humanity of whiteness, which means we're reinforcing whiteness. She shouldn't have to say I'm Virginia tex She could say I'm Virginia State, I am Southern University, I am Grambling a Southern But you know why she can't, because whiteness demands everything from Uslan goddamn it, I am not going to pay that price.

You mentioned. You mentioned the HBO documentary that was done. I actually reached out to the two individuals who actually put that together. I wonder if I did. I haven't heard from them, but I would love to have them on. This is the actual trailer.

I brushed my teeth, I smile, but there is always this frown. I think I don't run away with the ank and live on Mars.

Unfortunately, because I'm recording for us, are allowed to be hopeful. I used to dream radical dreams are flowing everyone away. Would live for the powers of correct analysis that I.

Don't remember a lot of things, but a lot of things that I don't remember, I don't.

Choose to remember childhood.

Rememberances are always a drag if you're black.

I remember what's important and I make up the rest.

That's what storytelling is all about.

I even used to think I'd be the one to stop the riot and negotiate the peace.

Would you ever say that some of your poems were inspired by stress or hating?

Were you ever bullied by your skin color when you were younger?

Could you ever look a breakdown?

Or you can't take any more? Where you just can't do it? But there has to be a way to do what we do and survive.

Our ancestors taught us how to do that.

The one thing that I didn't know is whatever life would be. I knew I had to create myself to successfully go to Mars. In fact, you will need a song and maybe a six pack. So if there is life on Mars, you can share popcorn for the celebration when your land while you wait on your land laces to kick in, and as you climb down the ladder from your spaceship to the Martian surface, look to your left, and there you'll see a smiling community quilting a black eyed p watching you descent, you.

Know, joy. As Greg was talking and I was setting that up, talking about again being able to have these real, authentic conversation in black spaces while that was playing, and man, this has nothing to do with the people who actually produced the documentary, but one of the things that always bothers me.

Is that.

Those type of documentaries so well done, polished, telling the stories of our people, rarely, if ever, are funded and aired in black spaces. So if I think about documentary on Sonya Sanchez, the documentary on Niki Giovanni, the documentary on Harra Bella Fonte they aired on HBO and it now the Quincy Jones documentary Netflix, I think about the John Coltrane I think about I mean, I can go on and on and on and and something. One of the one of the things that when I think about a lot of the documentaries on our musicians, Sam Cook, when I think about Nile's Rogers. When I think about, uh, you know, the the Teddy Pendergrass documentary. Teddy Pendergrass Documentary was done by the DBC, right when I think of so, I may go on and on, and that's one of the things that for me, like I just I just saw this story where where where this pod that would BuzzFeed sold this YouTube studio different shows for eighty seven million dollars to a consult of investors. And it pains me that the stories of our legends and our icons are often being told and produced by folks who don't look like us, air on platforms not owned by us, and so the cycle then repeats itself where they get rich off of our music and our craft and then still get rich off of talking about how we produced our.

Off about how we.

Had to overcome them, right, you know, it's funny.

I went to the National Coalitional Black Civic Participation. They had an event last night. Kathy Hughes talked about this, talked about it in an electoral kind.

We we we love we live streaming the spirit of democracy, we live streaming it on a blackstore network.

Yes, And we talked about how, you know, many of our platforms you did, which is great, but some black platforms did not get access to many of the campaigns and whatnot as as some of the others did. That's the next stage, right, We've got to not only demand that you know, white people acknowledge us and report on us and tell our stories. I mean that there seemed to be that we used to crave that, right, we wanted some kind of validation. We have to move to another stage where we say, and we want to make the money off of it. We want to enrich our own lives and our own ownership. This is what's so great about what you do here, Roland. I have been on BBC and I've had the soundtech grab me afterwards and say, you know, I'll watch.

You one Roland.

That I mean like that, like we're watching we are watching us.

That's right.

And so people, I mean, when they're looking for places to platform the material, when they're looking for people to produce the material, to direct the material, they need to be looking at black people and hell, we can we can produce stuff on them. You know, why can't a Mick Jagger documentary be done by black person and aired on on our networks?

Yeah? But but but but but to Greg's point, I don't want to do Mick Jagger, right, of course I don't. I mean, I literally I don't. And the reason and the reason I don't is because there are so many amazing artists whose story has never been told. That that is, that is what you know when we do I mean, listen, the reason we we didn't do any of our one on I think the only one on one we did last year we did Kim and was here in the studio normally when we travel to l a uh, and it was because it was because of money. It was because of money. And that was a reason. When we did Richard Roundtree we shot that he becomes an ancestor. Three years later we did Lewis Gossip. He becomes an ancestor fifteen eighteen months later. I go back, I go back to, I go back to September October twenty seventeen, we were shooting interviews, getting prepared for the fiftieth anniversary of assassination of Doctor King. TV one cancels my show News one. Now I'm sending them emails in January saying, yo, what are we doing for MLK? In February what we did for MLK, nobody's responding to the emails. So I then make the decision to spend thirty thousand dollars of my own money to go to Stanford to interview Clance Jones, to interview Claiborne Carson, to go to had a speech in Buffalo, and then Anthony and I drove to Cornell to interview Dorothy Cotton. We went to Atlanta interview. We need to Abernathy. I went through this so then when we meet with TV one in March and they finally agree, Okay, finally we'll do something. I had all those in the can. Thank goodness. Because Dorothy Cotton died three months, like two months after the anniversary, I think we need to Aberanthony passed the following year. I'm glad we had that stuff on tape. But that's the thing that again, when when I when I when when a legend like Nicko Giovanni passes away, Lorne, thank goodness should again we were only on the air. We lost the show September fourth, twenty eighteen. I was trying to look for the photos. I couldn't believe we didn't take any photos. Somebody had to snap photos. We did. We got the video, but I was looking for the photos and I was trying to remember when we did this. Uh, and I appreciate it. So she sat down with us on October twenty six, twenty eighteen. We were only only doing this show for forty some days, and this is what it means to have these spaces. I mean, even even having this conversation. Sure, the New York Times did did an little bit on Nikki Giovanni. I maybe I don't know because I don't watch I don't watch these other networks like at all, So I don't know what the seingn did. I don't know what I don't like. I literally don't watch them at all. We know, Dan Well, Fox News didn't do others. But even when you talk up, even when one of our greats passed away, it's barely a blip on the rest of these networks. Make sure as hell, I'm not going to give it an hour and twenty minutes like we've done, and then we still have are going to air the fifty one minute anybody did with the go ahead, Roland.

It's starting not to matter because new media is overtaking legacy media in a big way, in a big way, and you can see it in the numbers, so that whole thing, And you're right, I very rarely find myself watching MSNBC or CNN, so it's kind of interesting. But to go back to what you were saying about documentaries, you know, it's not just that we are sort of not in the same position monetarily to document our own history. It's even worse than that, which is that a lot of times what happens is that the content that gets green lighted about our community is negative. I actually thought that the documentary that was on Netflix on Sam Cook, for example, the Second Killing of Sam Cook was interesting. What is effectively negative, right, even though it was a reveal about his life that a bunch of stuff I didn't know. But what I found is that when I you know, and I thought, you know, Surviving R Kelly was a well done documentary, But I've hated a lot of these documentaries that have gotten green lighted. The Cosby one, certainly R Kelly one was good. But what I find is that the content when it comes to the black community a lot of times is very negative on our community and green lighted by white folks that then fund the negativity and have black people produce the documentary, so that almost never happens with any other community. And funny thing the technology that we have now, I remember when I started ABC News many years ago, you could not have done with video. Of course, what you can do today, which Roland I know you're familiar with. You just need a bunch of memory now, a good laptop, and really, to be honest, you only really actually need your cell phone in a lot of situations. Of course you want to probably go higher end than that for a documentary, but for documentary shorts, there's a real opportunity there to build a documentary. So but what kills me is when and this thing with jay Z recently is another example of it. You know, years from now, we will see a sort of surviving you know, Neverland type of documentary on what's going on with jay Z, although we don't know the end of that story. But what I see happening is sort of a cycle of creating controversial content about black people, using that content and monetizing it against us, showing the most negative light of our community as possible, and making money off of it for other people. And that for me has been hugely problematic because when you pull back the curtain on who's making that documentary. I can almost assure you nine times out of ten, it's nobody that looks like us. So if we're not telling our own story, that is hugely problematic and has been for some time, and it has to be fixed because particularly we enter the age of missinfo and dissinfo and Donald Trump and the line and all of that.

We got to fix that piece in a big way.

So we come up next we have the fan base and investor th on. But after that, we're going to restream the interview that we did with Nicki Giovanni. This is just a little bit of it. Just we just gonna play like the first ninety seconds of it because it was just fun to have her in the studio. Just go ahead and play a little bit of it. Hey, folks, glad to have Nikki Giovanni here. The great poet, activist, author, college professor, rabble rouser, all that sort of stuff. But here's why I'm happy to have her here. Okay, So I had my show Washington Watching four years on TV one. I had News one now four years on TV one, and the problem is I couldn't cuss, so I could say I could say, damn hell ass, I couldn't say that, Okay, So y'all need y'all understand. I haven't want to tell this story. This is flat out one of my favorite quotes of all time. This quote is up there with Malcolm X, with Martin Luther King Junior, with Frederick Douglass. I mean, some of the greats. I'm telling y'all. Okay. So on two thousand read Tavis Smiley stayed of Black America UH at USC uh on the USC's campus, and I I think uh Charles Ogletree was uh the one who was interviewing uh Nicki Giovanni on stage, and I think the brother with the New York Daily News, uh Stanley uh Stanley Crouch. I think he was on the pound. So the question was asked to Niki, why do you love hip hop? And why do you love Tupac? And this is what she said. She said, somebody gotta call a motherfucker a motherfucker right there. I the whole audience lost it. And every time I had her on the show, I was like, I couldn't say it. I had to dance around it. But that was all. That's all. That is a top five all time quote. I'm embarrassed.

I'm an old lady.

I'm sorry. That was hilarious and truthful. Well it was truthful.

It was truthful, and there's no question about that.

Really.

I mean you have to sometimes we've been talking football, you know, and I teach at Virginia Tech, and let me, can I read a poem?

Yeah, because I have a wonderful, shocking, shocking you's going to refer to a poem.

This is This is a nice poe. I have a kid that I taught Kevin Jones, who is in our Hall of.

Fame running back. Yeah, yep.

And Kevin came to me, he said, Nick, I need some help and writing a poem. And we talked back and forth and I came up with this. So the eye is Kevin. Some people plant seeds for corn and tomatoes and okra which grow. Some people clean land, and that evening you can see deer eating flowers are just standing mother did watching her babies. Some people live in crowded cities and they put out window boxes with herbs, enchanting folks to wipe by. I play football. I have watched men grow too long, for too much, for too little, then come home to smile at their wives and children. I have watched every Sunday Senda school children offer a psalm, preachers offer hope, acquire offers a voice, and join the community in prayer to a merciful God that life will be better. I play football. I listen to my parents tell me to go forward. I listen to my teachers tell me I can. I listen to the wind whistling in my ear and sometimes the rain falling on my back. And I understood that the true heroes of our nation. I am doing my part to be a part of this community, this school, this team. I am humbled to be considered for this hall of fame, fame when I know the true heroes are the men and women who go forth.

Every day I play. I hope.

I have done my part, and I think we forget that everybody does what they do. And aside from the fact that I love Kevin.

I love the That was again, it was a fascinating conversation. The opportunity just to sit there and chat. And as y'all saw that a huge smile, that laugh, as I retold, is she like She's like, ooh, I'm an old woman. Nick. Nick was always cussing. She was a cussing professor. But so again, so we're gonna we're gonna do these next the fan base investent on and after that we're gonna stream the Nikki Giuva and the conversation. So let me thank Lauren Joy and Greg for joining us. We have some other stories. We'll get to those, can wait. We'll get to Biden's partners tomorrow. We'll get to the other stuff tomorrow. And so we wanted to make sure that we just gave that sister Hufflowers. And again, y'all, the fact that having a black onned platform, being able to talk to her for almost an hour, being able to celebrate her life for more than an hour. This is precisely why we have to have our own because it ain't no time limit. The only reason I'm stopping now because my problem is isaaking. We would do this thing at eight o'clock, but it's eight oh ford. But we're still gonna do that. But this is why we ain't have to ask nobody. And there are many people that reached out. A lot of people were traveling. I reached out to Angela Davis, Corna West and others. People are on the move. Still trying trying to reach out to Sonya Sanchez, been a few years since I've seen her. But this is precisely why black owned media batters not black targeted, black owned, because we don't have to ask permission to talk about and celebrate black people, support the work that we do. Join our Brina Funk fan Club. You can, of course give you a cash shat be a strike this secure code right here. If you also want to send your check and money order peelbox five seven one nine six Washington d C two zero zero three seven dad zero one ninety six PayPal, are Martin Unfiltered, Venmo, r M Unfiltered, ze rolland at Rowland s Martin dot com rolling at rolland Martin unfilter dot com. Download the Blackstart Network app Apple Phone, Android Phone, Apple TV, Android TV, Roku, Amazon Fire TV, Xbox one, Samsung Smart TV. We should get a company of my book White Fear, How the Browning of Americas Making White Folks Lose their Minds, available at bookstores nationwide, and you, of course get the audio version of Audible and get our new gear. That's right, get your shirt fa f O twenty twenty five. Also, don't blame me. I voted for the black woman. You can go to Blackstar Network dot com, Roland Martin unfilter dot com, or go to rolland Martin dot creator, dash Spring dot com. And as y'all see, I don't know who gave me this. I forgot. It was in some swag bag that I got and I can't tell you whereas a golf tournament or something. So this was a line of clothing honoring Jack Johnson, of course, the first black Headway boxing champion. And so this is what the front says right here, he says it says Galveston on the What the hell I can't read upside down, y'all, this is the Galiston Giant. And then of course I don't know if there's anything from the hoodie, but this is what the back says. So you see the back of the back of this hoodie right here. And so our whole President Biden. First of all, we know that that last full partner Jack Johnson. So hopefully we're talking about partners that is gonna part and get a possumist partner. Marcus Garby, Marilyn Moseby, Jesse Junior, Sandy Jackson, Marcus Garby, kimber Smith and some others. So trust that we're gonna be talking about that a lot between now and eleven fifty nine am January twenty so, folks coming up next in the fan Base Investors on I'll see y'all guys tomorrow. In fact, got a guest host tomorrow. I got to go to an event at the Vice president's Vice President's house. But I'll be back right here on Monday. But we will be allowed tomorrow right here and rolling but unfiltered. Hi.

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