Hello everyone, ridiculous historians. Thank you for tuning in. This is the show where we look at some of the strangest, weirdest, most bizarre, and yes, ridiculous people, places, things, and events throughout the span of human civilization, animals, vegetables, minerals today. I'm not sure which category this topic falls under, but it's it's a thing, it's historically driven, and it's a fun thing. It is a fun thing. You know what just happened? I want to plan out. By the way, Ben, what's that? Noel, our super producer Casey Pegram said, Okay, start talking, go right, go. He literally cracked the whip at us I I because you would you had thrown both Casey and I under the bus before the before the show started. Yeah, by by saying that you are more grateful than anyone for particularly surprising, amazing thing we have happening in this episode. That's just me overcompensating. You notice about me, Ben, You're notice about me? Do you want how about this? Let's let's drop the drop the goods. What do we have today? That's right, that's correct. Yes, So we have today, uh, an amazing story about an iconic food product that everyone in the US is aware of and I assume many people throughout the world are aware of this. It is called spam. But you and I are not exploring this story alone. Today. Thank god, we called in an expert. Folks, we'd like to introduce you to our friend and today's co host, Annie Reese. Hi, everybody, thanks so much for having me. Guys, did you know that you were a spam expert? Annie? Spam s Burt? You know, I am disgusting. That does sound really gressy. It didn't work. It's like what happens when you open the can and a little bit of the juice. Oh I did not need that mental image, did You didn't know it? But she did? Any Okay, expert? Maybe not. I don't know. We're all kind of like armchair experts on a lot of things. We have a good time researching. I don't know how you would get the qualification of spam expert, but I'm gonna refer to you as our spam spirit guide today. How about that about spam consultant. I'm going like an email, like I come in and you're getting a lot of spam sorted out, Like make all the filters on your emails, I feel like I'm chopping at a grocery store and I'm going, oh wait, there's so many different things, and then you appear and you explain it in a step by step basis, And I just want you to know that I am, um preemptively very appreciative of that. I feel like i'd be good at that. I'm not sure more very efficient and you are. You are a co host of our food podcast, Saver Food Lifestyle Travel. Could you tell us a little bit about sabor. Yeah. Saver is a show where we explore the science history culture of food and drinks and why we like what we like and how you can get more of that. It used to be called food Stuff. We recently rebranded, but we did a whole episode on spam um back when it was old school food stuff. And I have a confession to make that Noel and I were talking about it briefly before this. Anyone who knows anything about Apple podcast reviews, you don't read them unless you're a massa chist, yeah right, which I am. Well, you're a brave result in me. But one time a friend of mine left review and was like, you've got to go find it. You've got to read it and I said, do you know what you're asking me to do? But eventually I got over it and delved into the nightmare, into the shark pit, that is podcast reviews like I like the reviews. That might say something about you, but it might say something about me as well. But one of the number one recurring negative reviews was that I have never tried any of the foods we're talking about. And when we recorded spam, I had not tried it. Yeah, that was You're very open about it on the show, though it seems like a very misplaced complaint. You know, you're talking to your owning up to it. You honestly, maybe it's better that you haven't tasted the stuff. It makes you more objective about it. Have you still tried it? I tried it. Afterwards, I went and got um spam subi and that was it was lovely spam what musubi? Musubi? Yeah, it's a very popular you can find it convenience stores in Hawaii, that's how popular it is. And it kind of to me looks like nagiri like sushi, but it's it's spam. Oh yes, okay, yeah, I'm familiar with that, and what we know nowadays, is that in most grocery stores that carries spa am, you won't just see the iconic regular garden variety spam. You'll see stuff like turkey spam, spam with bacon, spam light. And because this is so recognizable, we have to ask ourselves, how how did this thing which people love or hate, how did it become so ubiquitous in the world today? How how come everybody vegetarians, vegans included. I know what you're talking about when you say spam. Well, first of all, it's good branding, right, say the SPUs sound is one of my favorites, and then add the am and it's just a delight to say out loud. Um, and it's it's it's meant to be an acronym, but the origin of what its acronym actually might be is a little bit lost to history. Or it's kind of a little murky, right, Yeah, there are a couple of stories about where the name came from from the people who should know where it came from. One is that it's like spiced ham, or maybe it stands for scientifically processed animal matter animal matter so delicious not quite meets animal matter. And there's there's others. Two, there's a shoulder of pork and ham and like you said, spiced ham. And then if you want to really get into the weeds that's utterly not food related. There's Stop Pornography and Abusive Marketing Act. There's also the State Police Association of Massachusetts that we forget. I didn't realize that that was in the running schools of the Pacific Atmospheric Monitoring Society for the Publication of American Music UH Systems Personnel Activity Meeting that's from Yale in my personal favorite society for palm top advancement through meetings, through only through meeting That seems like a fascinating use of time. But okay, so Spam. It dates back to nineteen thirty seven in a town called Austin, Minnesota, a k a. Spam Town USA, and it was made by Hormel Foods. They initially pitched as a way to help busy homemakers serve quick and easy pork dishes without having to slave away for hours in front of an oven. But in like an Edward Burnet's style stroke of genius, it also did a thing where it um Hormel the guy um had a slaughterhouse, and he had these byproduct parts that weren't very sellable, aka the pork shoulder. Um, we now kind of dig pork shoulder. That's like a thing that's like a delicacy, right or like people eat it at the Thanksgiving table or whatever. People are into it now, yeah for barbecue, I think, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly so. But he had this surplus of pork shoulder. It was not a popular cut, and so he wanted to figure out a way to make this, as you say, ben convenient product that could be marketed to homemakers who were all about canned food at the time. It was all the rage, and they haven't really fussed with the ingredients too much. You know. It's it's strange because when you think of shelf's stable, that shall stable being the term for stuff that can stay at room temperature without going bad. I guess getting worse than it originally was. When you think of that, usually think of a ton of chemicals with so many syllables in the name that it sounds like a spell from Harry Potter, right. But in the case of spam, they have what six ingredients is just pork slash, ham, salt water, potato, starch, sugar, and of course sodium nitrate. Of course for color. Yes, that captivating pink issue. It describe it. So spam didn't immediately become this worldwide sensation. There were other things happening across the planet that eventually would lead to uh spam becoming like the king of canned meat. And it goes into an angle that a lot of people might not be aware of. It goes to tensions between the US and Japan during the nineteen thirties. There's a guy, Donald M. Shug at the University of Hawaii who published a paper on this, and he says that the US military began to view Hawaii's fishing fleet as a serious threat to national security. So, you know, at this time, Hawaii is still not a US state, right, So when the Japanese government arranged for many of Hawaiis Japanese fishermen to attend fishing schools in Japan, there were concerns that these fishermen were actually being interrogated by Japanese navy officials. Yeah, but to what end? Band to what end? So this eventually, okay, walked through this real quick. So in nineteen forty three years after the invention of span. Suspicions about the loyalty of Japanese immigrants resulted in the implementation of a federal statute that stopped or banned fishing vessels of five tons or more from obtaining licenses unless the ers who owned the vessel was a US citizen. The next year one they passed the law prohibiting quote, aliens from fishing with gil perse or these different kinds of nets within one mile of shore because they wanted to preserve the fishery resources for Native Hawaiians and US citizens. This ended careers of a lot of people in the fishing industry in Hawaii, and then that meant that without spam these other can meets and sardines, the economy would have collapsed. They had to find something to replace this massive fishing industry. And let's not forget about Executive Order nineties sixty six UM where Franklin Roosevelt basically banned Japanese Americans citizens who were occupying military zones had them put in internment camp. So this whole anti Japanese sentiment was wide rife in the country, and weirdly enough, it trickled down to this canned meat product and Of course, these tensions, these discriminatory laws and economic practices were only ripples of a much larger event on the horizon, which is World War Two. And when the war begins, spam also has a part to play. Yeah, it does, because, um, if you remember, spam was pretty new around the time that America was getting involved in World War Two, but it was a popular option for soldiers because, um, getting fresh meat or fresh anything to Hawaii was difficult, um for American soldiers station there. So the US government was sending spam, or it might not have been exactly spam. Wasn't it just kind of like leftover meat parts that they had that they shipped to Hormel and then they made them my spam like stuff. Yeah yeah, yeah, so Hormels canning them. But it probably wasn't exactly what spam is today or what we think of it today. And it was cheap, non perishable, could withstand all sorts of weather conditions. But soldiers weren't exactly happy with spam. They were sometimes eating it three times a day, so I'm sure they were tired of it. Some of them even wrote hate mail to Hormel, which the company kept In a quote scurril less file and some of my favorite dishes are quote meat loaf without basic training, ham that didn't pass its physical and the real reason war was hell, that's great, that's fantastic. It's pretty harsh, So there's some sick burns. Do you think that this would have been like branded as spam, wouldn't have come in the tins, like with the logo on it and everything, because you kind of made a point on your episode of food Stuff back when it was called that that almost like the proper spam kind of got a bad rap because this was like almost like bootleg spam, but it was being manufactured in Hormel's canning facilities. Because I'm wondering if they like branded it differently or called it like Mr. E Spam or something, or I don't know, do you find anything about that in your east. I didn't find much about that at all. In fact, the fact that it wasn't spam was sort of a deep cut. It was kind of lost on people. Clearly they were writing those letters, those angry letters. Oh yeah, and it's also it reminds me of the kind of people that write mean things about podcasts. Well, it's also in the case of spam, there's an interesting linguistic thing that occurs because they're using it as one word to describe this umbrella of umbrella of processed meat. So the image it just got weird for me. But you know, it's it's similar to the way that instead of people saying search for something on the Internet, they say google it, or instead of make a copy, xerox this right, and it's it seems pretty certain in the history that only a few soldiers received genuine spam. But because there had already been this can be product around since the late thirties, that's just what people called it. So maybe spam got an unfair uh mark, a screw realist mark on its its reputation. I wonder if it's possible too that because spam was new and at the time there was such a push to be like but behind the boys and you know, all American soldiers, and America is doing great in the war. Annie is Annie has throwing some great propaganda. She's got these tiny American flags and she's gently twisting between her thumb and four fingers shut off a firecracker. I always come with crops, I always come with props um. But I wonder if maybe they made a miscalculation and thought, oh, spam is supporting the soldiers, and this will really get our name out there. And it did, but not in the way that they were hoping. Oh man, this is like a like an attempt, like a ham fisted half attempted, a kind of stunt fisted spam fisted attempt. That's even better. And he took her the next level, like you do. I'm just curious if there was an element of that behind it, because I could see I could see the calculation there, because it is free advertising when you think about it. That's a good point because these soldiers from the US are traveling around the world. They're going to Europe, they're going to the Pacific, they're going to various different islands, and they're bringing spam along with them. Yeah, and it's a government contract, so you're getting paid to do it. I bet there was something like that going on, and the backlash from the soldiers generated one of my favorite quotes about spam, because there are a lot of excellent quotes about spam. Hormel describes it as meat with a pause button, which I love. I'm gonna need you to unpack that for us a little bit meat with a pause button, meaning like it never goes bad. Or is that the implication? Yeah, like where you put it in that can, it's like a time capsule. It's just gonna stay the same. I got it pushing pause. Another one of my favorite quotes comes from a New Yorker piece. It was all about as a profile on J. Hormel, and in the article, the author wrote, I got the distinct impression that being responsible for spam might be too great a burden on any one. Man. I love that idea, being cursed by the success of spam. Yeah. So is it that the soldiers genuinely didn't like the taste? Or is it? Do you think it's really more because as you said, they were eating it so often. I think it was a couple of things. I think it was they were eating it so often, they were eating it cold. And one of the reasons I found when looking into this question of why spam is so popular in Hawaiian and like other Asian Pacific countries, is because not only were they kind of their hand was forced because of the things you were talking about earlier, where Japanese immigrants couldn't fish, they also were incorporating spam in ways that were delicious, like they were putting them in recipes that they made. Anyway, they were adding them into spam fried rice or spam and eggs. Um soldiers were just eating them cold. Out of ten, I think I have very limited experience with spam. I don't know about the two of you, but limited purpose. I will make a confession that Casey and Annie probably know, you probably don't know UM I received in my early years working when we all started working together, I received an m v P award. Do you remember this, Annie? It's just three cans of spam that have been wrapped together and artistically artistically designs so that parts of the spam logos say m v P or something like that, and uh, it's It's one of the most prestigious awards I've ever received. It's also still in our office in case of an emergency, in case of a trophy emergency, case of a trophy murdery case we're trapped here and we have to eat spam. Oh yeah, I think about that. But but the UM I might have just a little bit more familiarity with this stuff because in boy Scouts we would camp a lot and we would have to we would have to eat that stuff, and we tried to find different ways to make it taste interesting. So it's not the same old thing, but it's already spiced. I mean, what else does it needs? Right, the secret and I don't know what else you're missing, but yeah, it's I think it's the thing that a lot of people did, as you said, the the assimilated spam, yes, um, and to get back to the point that they were putting it in things that I think we're probably much well definitely much more flavorful. And so they had a positive experience with spam um. And on Hawaii after soldiers left, a lot of soldiers when they went home, they brought with them their distaste. They were also turning spam into spaminade, right, I mean, they were flooded and inundated with all this the spam, and because they couldn't get protein from fishing, and didn't the US kind of like send them a lot of the spam because they had like a surplus of the stuff. And that wasn't just during World War two, continue during the Korean War as well. I believe, yes, because um spam was included in a lot of foreign aid packages, and during the Korean War people made something that I'm not entirely sure what's in there, and other folks weren't either, but they called it army stew, and uh, spam was one of the ingredients that we do know. It was featured in Armies Army ste And to this day, Korea is spam's second largest market and it's a popular gift on Lunar New Year in that country. Oh wow, Oh that's cool. Is there? Do they have different varieties of spam in different countries, like different flavors and such. I yes, I'm not I couldn't speak to specific, but I do know that there's a wide variety of spam flavors and that it does vary in um different countries. But Hawaii for sure is the biggest market. Yeah. Do you have some stats for us about that? Do I? Ever? And I'm not sure. I didn't know that spam had this association with Hawaii until I did that the research for that episode, But I think it's pretty common knowledge at least here in the United States. But Hawaiians consume about five million pounds of spam every year, which is about two million a little over two million kilograms and on average that's about three pounds per person or about one point three kilograms a year, or I think around six cans a year for every man, uh, every man, woman, child, any type of humans consuming about six cans of spam a year. I can't we completely forgot hey, Casey, yes, do you have do you have an experience or familiarity with spam? Just the other weird al song, the R E M parody? Yeah? Wait, which was spam in the place where you live? You know that one? I don't. It's a deep weird alcave. Let's stand by R E M. But stand I was not aware there was is this? Is this like classic? Yeah? Mid eight I means whenever stand was out so that I did not Casey on the case, Casey on the case. I like that has a sound effect and everything. Any oh yeah, I mean it's got to because he's on the case. We we love being able to drop the sound cuse and multiple times. Yeah, well just listen after after Casey spinds this intofferent spins the spam into gold, We're gonna be shocked. Um. Hawaii also has what looks to be one of the festivals. I would just be over the moon to attend. It's called spam Jam Festival in y Ki Ki and I was looking at pictures for it. There's just mascot stressed as all the different types of spams, spam eating contest. I think somebody got married there once. It looks awesome and I would love to go and um. Spam is also called Hawaiian steak, which I wasn't sure if it was a joke or not when I was reading that. In the state they call it Hawaiian steak. Okay, so actual native Hawaiians call it that, But from what I understand from what the Internet tells me is okay. I'm just I'm trying to figure out if if we can say that or if that's mocking it. Yeah, right, I not here to mock. Surely they also have steak in Hawaii. Surely they do, but probably yeah, I mean, I'm sure steak is certainly much more expensive than it is here on the mainland, that is true. Yeah, yeah, they kind of take for granted the fact they are sort of isolated and require all of their goods to be shipped in literally you know, by plane or by sea. Yeah, which makes things expensive. So the legacy of spam established during World War Two and the Korean War takes this canned food product, this animal matter from Minnesota to its new home in He said, Hawaii's by far the largest market, Korea's second. That that would that should surprise a lot of people, right, because spam feels like such an American food because of the way it's spread across the planet. Yeah, it surprised me. I do find it really fascinating that it's so local. Lot, it's so specific where people love it. And then I feel like the rest of the world and and the rest of the US, we're kind of like, that's that weird food thing. What is that exactly? But I would like to mention that there is an amazing I've never been, but listeners have sent like, um some some stuff they've gotten from this museum and um austin Minnesota, which is, like you said, spam m USA. And if anyone has the opportunity, I highly recommend it. Its hands on you the sam hands on right. Nice. You get to race to see how many cans of fake it's fake spam that you can make in a minute. It's practice. Yeah, like you're trying to shove it into the can and you're competing against like a robot. So it's kind of like the world of Coca Cola in Atlanta, but with spam. Yes, I would hope that you would have the opportunity to sample different spam, the spams of the world, a world of cove that would be super cool. Um. We didn't really talk about this, and I think it's fine to save it for the end. Spam is cooked in the can. Yeah, the way it's made it isn't that weird that that struck me as super odd And there's a reason for that, right, Yeah, And it has to do with that whole shelf stable thing because you wanna you wanna mix the meat in a vacuum and vacuum seal it and then cook the whole cam that's part of the whole meat with a pause button thing. It's so nothing gets in there that you don't want, unless maybe you don't want the spam, but that's a whole different argument. Um. And when you cook it, the meat breaks down and you're left with a little a little loaf of spam and some juices. We're not making it sound very appetised, semi gelatinous, almost not as gelatinous as it could be if it didn't have that additive right, because it was there, one of those additives that keeps it from forming like a gross congealed layer of goo on the top, to make something that's already not super appetizing practically inedible. And I'll tell you, guys, I will I make a mean spam fried rice if you ever want to come over. If you cut it in the little cubes like that, it's like you hide it. It's like the way I feed my kid vegetables. I chopped the carrots up so small you can't even see them. I mean, spam, for all intensive purposes probably taste fine, but the texture of it and the look of it and the idea of it just give me the give me the gross out. It's the fact that it comes out can shaped. I think for a lot of people, you see the rills in the can and yeah, yeah, but not everybody. Not everybody hated it, right, we said, Hawaiian's welcomed it with open arms. People in parts of the Pacific Rim also really enjoyed it, and the Russians liked it. They called it Roosevelt sausage. Had to be fair. Russian Russian food is pretty gross. I feel like, in terms of cuisine, Russians already very familiar with a lot of canned meat products, you know, like anchovies, different potted meats, So maybe it was just something that already seemed familiar to them. Okay, And first of all, for any Russian listeners out there, I want to apologize for insulting the entire cuisine of Russia, but I just never really run across Russian food that was particularly appetiting to me. It seems like a lot of cabbage, a lot of like barred based things and borsch and you know, very rustic kind of there's a stuff. There's a great Russian restaurant up north of Atlanta where we are based, and I would highly recommend checking it out. And actually, you know, in defense of Russian food, this is totally non span but in defense of Russian food, Uh, make friends with someone who cooks Russian food themselves and it will be amazing. There's always like thirty dishes of things. Yeah, I would imagine that there's probably a lot of food that is historically Russian that is we just have lost. Yeah, we we've forgotten that it is, or we've made it our own thing. I'm sure there's I'm not thinking of any right now, but I'm sure there's good Russian fair and we do like a chicken Kiev. Yeah, we could do a Russian food update to I'm sure we're going to get some emails about this one. Another one of, perhaps one of the most famous Russian fans of spam was Soviet Premier Nikki Ta Kruschev. Oh yeah, he wrote about spam in his memoirs called Krushchev remembers not the most amazingly innovative threat. Yeah, he probably had some threats in there. He probably took some shots. But in the memoir he specifically shouts out spam by saying, quote, there were many jokes going around in the army, some of them off color of American spam. It tastes good. Nonetheless, without spam, we will not feed our army. We would have lost our most fertile land, most fertile land. Got it? Got it? Who was that Russian guy? I was? It was terrible. Oh my gosh, we've got to I've got a practice on the accents, folks. But he raises an interesting point, you know that similar to what was happening with war survivors in the countries on the Pacific Rim. There were people who would have starved without access to this easily transportable, infinitely durable food. Yeah, kind of along the same lines. Margaret Thatcher called it a wartime delicacy. She called spam a wartime delicacy. And it's interesting, I think, because there is an odd sense of nostalgia for spam that a lot of people have, and I feel that it needed time to get away from the war the direct aftermath, but then after that people had this association with spam. It was there for me when I needed it. Yeah. It's also one of those things where it's like it hasn't changed much. The branding is the same. It's you know, people have fond memories of that and they like the idea. You know, everything in this in this fast paced, mixed up world of ours, everything's always changed in a mile a minute. But we can rely on spam. Yes, the spam never changes. Like our true North. There we go, true North of canned animal matter. I do have a question, this is something that I was wondering if we could explore together, how did spam also become a term for uh deluges? Of bizarre emails. Well, then it has to do with Monty Python. Oh yeah, yeah, that's catch right. Yes, can you describe the games? We should just play a clip of it all. You got the egg and bacon, egg, sausage and bacon. I can span egg, bacon and SPA, Bacon sausage and Span, SPAN bacon sausage and SPA, SPA Stan bacon and Span, Span Span spanag and Span, spam spam spans, Span, Span Span BA clean spam spam span aspall. Oh, lost door prevents for the moon. I saw collanda and probably and span. Do you want anything without spaming it? Well, span, egg, sausage and span. There's not much spamming it. I don't want any spam. The end credits for that episode, by the way, include UM spam with every company member spam, Terry Jones, Terry Spam, sausage spam, eggspam UM, and the idea of just like inundating you with something, yeah, like annoying you always kind of just blaring in the back of your mind. UM. It has no appreciable content. It's omnipresent. But as you can imagine, Hormel doesn't exactly love that association. Yeah, I think they've even tried to. I think there was some very quickly defeated legal way they tried. It's not like anybody branded spam. It's just in the zeit guys. You would just toss it around, you know it. I'm not sure everyone, I'm not sure what they thought. They could just send out a message to everyone, a spam message, and say, please use a different term for this, what this thing is that we're sending. Usually when people or institutions or companies attempt to do something like that, they just make the problem much much worse, such as when a celebrity politely asked the Internet to take down a photo of them. Yeah, what I mean, So they've probably done the math and they thought, if we ask people to not do this, it's not gonna work. I know there's some Um, there's a bit of a renaissance sometimes for spam, every so often in more high end restaurants, right, yes, Um. I saw this a lot when I was in San Francisco a couple year or so ago. And there's one restaurant I think it's called Leo Leo Yacht Club something like that, and they have a lot of spam options on their menu, and it's a very nice restaurant. Visit Hawaiian. Like, it's just like, what's this loco moco I keep hearing about. Loco is good. It's like spam with gravy or something. Yes, rice, maybe it's rice, spam gravy and a fried egg. You can also get it with ground b for other meats, for a hamburger patty. Yes, so that's what I had. I didn't have spam locomoco okay, okay, I did have the other one. And it was very interesting that there's like high end Hawaiian restaurants that still use this uh pretty cheap, not very nutritional canned meat. Speaking of nutrition, just want to point out real quick that one of these Kansas spams twelve ounces and it apparently contains about six servings um which contain so the six servings and they can which come only, and it contains of the daily recommended fat intake for the US and thirty of the sodium. So it's not a health food no. But but there's another set. American ze'd approximately three point eight cans per second. Problem with that step because I think Hawaii is throwing off the average. I yes, I would agree, I can't really recall spam ever coming up in my childhood as an option. Well, you clearly didn't have elderly parents like I did. They you know, remembered it fondly from the wartime where my parents weren't alive in World War Two, but their parents were, and so it was something. You know, a lot of people that went through the depression, they like they learned how to hoard properly, and they learned how to like be frugal and like use canned meats and things. I remember growing up and my grandpapa would make brains and eggs, which is like the brain. It's literally I didn't even realize this until many years later. It's like cow brains and eggs. But it was like a cheap part that you could just you know, added a little texture and a little flavor to your eggs. Same with spam or something called liver pudding or scrapple is what it's known as in the wearing that the Midwest like up in the Yeah, yeah, exactly. I liked all of those things and didn't think anything of it. But they're both kind of these congealed meat cubes that you then slice up and fry like spam, So there's there's there's other analogs to spam. Absolutely, these are foods that come about out of necessity, you know, And I think necessity and nostalgia are inextricably intertwined here. So I guess I guess the next question would be what is the what is the future of spam? Are they slowing up? Are they speeding up? I think they they're in a good place. I definitely don't think that they need to be worried. I Hawaiians love it. They're going to keep the market going. Um. Like we said, these fancier restaurants, and this is a trend. We see a lot where the combination of high end and low end. I've seen around Atlanta government cheese at really nice restaurants pretty frequently. So I don't think they have to be worried. What they should be worried about is theft. That's right. Okay, can you tell us a little bit about this? Yes, we love well. I can't speak for you, but I love I love a good high story. Do you love a good high story? Now you were wrong. You shouldn't have spoken. Of course, I love a good high story, especially when it involves an absurd potted meat a spam high story is it's up there. That's a good one. Lately, there have been a spate of spam thefts in Hawaii. In one account, three women filled a cart with eighteen cans of spam at a drug store and made a dash for the exit. But this customer, he just planted himself in front of the doors and said, what are you doing with that spam? He didn't say that, but along those lines, and they made a run for it, and they did not succeed in their heist, but enough people have that now some stores have started storing their cans of spam locked in those plastic cases that are typically used for expensive items electronics. Yeah, now spam is back there. You have to go ask for key. The reason for this is super interesting. It has to do with a change in the law in Hawaii where I think like in the past theft up to three hundred dollars was considered a felony, and then they raised it to seven hundred, So you could steal up to seven hundred dollars worth of spam and it would be just a misdemeanor if they caught you. But also it's like, how are you gonna, you know, track down the purp if you don't catch them doing it. And the fact that this famous spam shelf stability means that you don't have to fence it right away. You can sit on your stash for a while. And this great article from grub Street that you turned us onto Annie Hawaiian grocery stores reportedly overrun with spam bandits spammed its um that it's it's like an epidemic, and it's a lot largely the article can jectures folks are stealing the stuff so that they can flip it and buy drugs. Um. But it's so flippable because the market for spam in Hawaii is like through the roof. Yeah. Tina Yamaki, the president of Retailed Merchants of Hawaii, calls it organized retail crime, and she she's spoken a lot about the spam black market and how you can buy spam out of somebody's car, like out of their trunk. Wow, it's just you know, usually if I see somebody with a ton of canned meat in their trunk standing by the side of the road, my first instinct isn't to ask them how much and what the going prices. You clearly are not a spam fan, Ben, I'm not. You know what I'm I can say safely. I'm a fan, but I don't think I'm built to be a spam tycoon. I hope they're out there somewhere in Hawaii. I hope there's a black market spam tycoon. And I hope that you are listening to this show. We want to make God have mercy on your soul. You gotta have mercy on your spam. I think we all want to hear spam recipes from listeners if you're a fan of spam. Well, speaking of spam recipes, when we talked about like how the Hormeil company is doing and moving forward or whatever, well they've really embraced a lot of this kitch surrounding spam and like the Massu bees and all that, and they have like recipes on their site. For this fantastic national geographic article by April Fulton shows some images of some of the stuff that I'm talking about. One of them is a Hello Kiddie Spam musubie that they show you how to make um. They also have a tour, a national tour called the Tiny House of Sizzle Tour where they are shopping around the whole us of a um a spicy spam breakfast burrito recipe made by their chef Jordan's and Dino, and it's like a traveling link Spam food truck, sort of the way you see the Oscar Meyer wiener Uh mobile or whatever. So you know, Spam's not slowing down. They're they're they're rising to the occasion. They're adapting to the times. Yeah, they're adapting times. They always haven't want to show you, guys. One of my favorite pictures, so Annie on this show. We love vintage advertise too, So Spam Dandy is one of my one of my favorites. And they have these collections of all their ads that have the exact nostalgia tone um for anybody who enjoyed our previous episode on what was It? Noal? Was it meat jello? Yeah, aspects and also just like various savory gelatin dishes that were very popular as like centerpieces and made you seem like you really had your homemaking skills in order. And spam, I'm sure it's all part of this, like the food of the Future movement. Oh, we'll just eat out of tins, and that's super progressive and like shows that we have money or something. Even though it was cheap and gelatine was cheap, it was a very odd dichotomy and that really interesting to look back on. Gelatin Just when you see pictures of those things at the center of a dining table, it strikes me as love crafty and I'm gonna be honest, it's something from like the Dark beyond the stars. Oh, I love looking at a good aspect or meat jelly. They're they're hilarious and they are that interesting intersection of At the time, if you didn't have a lot of money, you wanted to put a lot of work and artistry into a thing to show that you were successful and that you could afford to do this. But it was a cheap food thing. It was everyone was participating in kind of this masquerade, of this facade. And and spam is a similar food in that it does have that futuristic it'll last forever vibe, but it's very cheap. And during the recent recession in two thousand eight, because of this, spam saw an increase of sales of ten because yeah, it is a food that that people people can't afford and there aren't strict numbers, but according to the Hormel website UM they estimate of point eight cans of spam are consumed every second across the planet. Mostly that's not even to speak of the ones that are just hoarded in a bombshell right or in the trunk of a Cadillac driving so where near you. I love it. Well. I don't know about you, guys, but I'm filled with gratitude at the end of this episode for you, Annie. My heart is just bursting out of my chest with gratitude, clearly more gratitude than either Been or Casey are capable of mustering. Annie, I wasn't really listening when Nolan is talking about I do want to say thank you so much for coming on the episode. I'm kidding, no, I think we're both really happy that you took the time here and uh taught us so much about spam. I'm wondering if I'm going to cook something this weekend. We've talked so much about it. I feel like we've almost in a way consumed it ourselves just by exploring this concept. I think we should do a potted meat like uh pot luck. Let's do it Look, it would be a pollock potted potted meat. Look, this is the office to host such an event. There would be very creative concoctions behind the curtain. Folks. We recently hung out after work and had a game night where we learned. Uh. Well I think you already knew all the games, Annie, but we both learned some really cool stuff. So shout out to Dix it right, Dix it fun to say, fun to play. That should be their tagline. That should have it. You're gonna give it to them for free? Well, I don't know. They can send me some some swag, some mugs or something. You guys can have. It was so fun, it was It was really really enjoy and it was a successful game nine. I look forward to doing it again, um, but I also look forward to having you Annie on the show again. Yes, please, yes please. This was so this was so much fun. Yes, We're so glad you enjoyed. Uh. I'm a huge fan of food history, as you know from some of our works outside of this show. But in the meantime, before you make another return appearance, where can our listeners here more of your work with how Stuff Works? You can find me um over at Favor podcast your Internet humans, I'm sure you can find it, but I will say it's Savor without the you. So for the non American listeners among you. Um, and I also am a co host of a show called Stuff Mom Never Told You, which you can google Google right away and you'll find it. Fantastic shows. Do check them out, Uh, the shows that I personally listened to in my free time. So okay, yeah, I don't want a fanboy out too much, but maybe i'll ask your autograph after the show. I definitely listened to the Spam episode today and crypt most of my notes of this episode from that episode. So this is where that yeah mistake that consumes its tale. Uh, and we have more tales to tell. We had earlier said that we would be exploring some more spooky stories as we lead up to Halloween, So tune in next time when we delve into of this strange story of well mummies, yeah Mexican mummies to be precise. And in the meantime, like to thank casey our superproducer Alex Williams, who composed our theme, research associates Christopher Hasciodas and Eve's Jeff Code and Ben as usual I'd like to throw a little thanks your way, my friend, and just being you, I would like to treat that thanks like a boomerang, add some extra thanks to it, and make sure it gets right back to you. Why do you guys have to want up be on the thanks my man? I just like hanging outright. We'll see you next time, folks,

Hello everyone, ridiculous historians. Thank you for tuning in. This is the show where we look at some of the strangest, weirdest, most bizarre, and yes, ridiculous people, places, things, and events throughout the span of human civilization, animals, vegetables, minerals today. I'm not sure which category this topic falls under, but it's it's a thing, it's historically driven, and it's a fun thing. It is a fun thing. You know what just happened? I want to plan out. By the way, Ben, what's that? Noel, our super producer Casey Pegram said, Okay, start talking, go right, go. He literally cracked the whip at us I I because you would you had thrown both Casey and I under the bus before the before the show started. Yeah, by by saying that you are more grateful than anyone for particularly surprising, amazing thing we have happening in this episode. That's just me overcompensating. You notice about me, Ben, You're notice about me? Do you want how about this? Let's let's drop the drop the goods. What do we have today? That's right, that's correct. Yes, So we have today, uh, an amazing story about an iconic food product that everyone in the US is aware of and I assume many people throughout the world are aware of this. It is called spam. But you and I are not exploring this story alone. Today. Thank god, we called in an expert. Folks, we'd like to introduce you to our friend and today's co host, Annie Reese. Hi, everybody, thanks so much for having me. Guys, did you know that you were a spam expert? Annie? Spam s Burt? You know, I am disgusting. That does sound really gressy. It didn't work. It's like what happens when you open the can and a little bit of the juice. Oh I did not need that mental image, did You didn't know it? But she did? Any Okay, expert? Maybe not. I don't know. We're all kind of like armchair experts on a lot of things. We have a good time researching. I don't know how you would get the qualification of spam expert, but I'm gonna refer to you as our spam spirit guide today. How about that about spam consultant. I'm going like an email, like I come in and you're getting a lot of spam sorted out, Like make all the filters on your emails, I feel like I'm chopping at a grocery store and I'm going, oh wait, there's so many different things, and then you appear and you explain it in a step by step basis, And I just want you to know that I am, um preemptively very appreciative of that. I feel like i'd be good at that. I'm not sure more very efficient and you are. You are a co host of our food podcast, Saver Food Lifestyle Travel. Could you tell us a little bit about sabor. Yeah. Saver is a show where we explore the science history culture of food and drinks and why we like what we like and how you can get more of that. It used to be called food Stuff. We recently rebranded, but we did a whole episode on spam um back when it was old school food stuff. And I have a confession to make that Noel and I were talking about it briefly before this. Anyone who knows anything about Apple podcast reviews, you don't read them unless you're a massa chist, yeah right, which I am. Well, you're a brave result in me. But one time a friend of mine left review and was like, you've got to go find it. You've got to read it and I said, do you know what you're asking me to do? But eventually I got over it and delved into the nightmare, into the shark pit, that is podcast reviews like I like the reviews. That might say something about you, but it might say something about me as well. But one of the number one recurring negative reviews was that I have never tried any of the foods we're talking about. And when we recorded spam, I had not tried it. Yeah, that was You're very open about it on the show, though it seems like a very misplaced complaint. You know, you're talking to your owning up to it. You honestly, maybe it's better that you haven't tasted the stuff. It makes you more objective about it. Have you still tried it? I tried it. Afterwards, I went and got um spam subi and that was it was lovely spam what musubi? Musubi? Yeah, it's a very popular you can find it convenience stores in Hawaii, that's how popular it is. And it kind of to me looks like nagiri like sushi, but it's it's spam. Oh yes, okay, yeah, I'm familiar with that, and what we know nowadays, is that in most grocery stores that carries spa am, you won't just see the iconic regular garden variety spam. You'll see stuff like turkey spam, spam with bacon, spam light. And because this is so recognizable, we have to ask ourselves, how how did this thing which people love or hate, how did it become so ubiquitous in the world today? How how come everybody vegetarians, vegans included. I know what you're talking about when you say spam. Well, first of all, it's good branding, right, say the SPUs sound is one of my favorites, and then add the am and it's just a delight to say out loud. Um, and it's it's it's meant to be an acronym, but the origin of what its acronym actually might be is a little bit lost to history. Or it's kind of a little murky, right, Yeah, there are a couple of stories about where the name came from from the people who should know where it came from. One is that it's like spiced ham, or maybe it stands for scientifically processed animal matter animal matter so delicious not quite meets animal matter. And there's there's others. Two, there's a shoulder of pork and ham and like you said, spiced ham. And then if you want to really get into the weeds that's utterly not food related. There's Stop Pornography and Abusive Marketing Act. There's also the State Police Association of Massachusetts that we forget. I didn't realize that that was in the running schools of the Pacific Atmospheric Monitoring Society for the Publication of American Music UH Systems Personnel Activity Meeting that's from Yale in my personal favorite society for palm top advancement through meetings, through only through meeting That seems like a fascinating use of time. But okay, so Spam. It dates back to nineteen thirty seven in a town called Austin, Minnesota, a k a. Spam Town USA, and it was made by Hormel Foods. They initially pitched as a way to help busy homemakers serve quick and easy pork dishes without having to slave away for hours in front of an oven. But in like an Edward Burnet's style stroke of genius, it also did a thing where it um Hormel the guy um had a slaughterhouse, and he had these byproduct parts that weren't very sellable, aka the pork shoulder. Um, we now kind of dig pork shoulder. That's like a thing that's like a delicacy, right or like people eat it at the Thanksgiving table or whatever. People are into it now, yeah for barbecue, I think, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly so. But he had this surplus of pork shoulder. It was not a popular cut, and so he wanted to figure out a way to make this, as you say, ben convenient product that could be marketed to homemakers who were all about canned food at the time. It was all the rage, and they haven't really fussed with the ingredients too much. You know. It's it's strange because when you think of shelf's stable, that shall stable being the term for stuff that can stay at room temperature without going bad. I guess getting worse than it originally was. When you think of that, usually think of a ton of chemicals with so many syllables in the name that it sounds like a spell from Harry Potter, right. But in the case of spam, they have what six ingredients is just pork slash, ham, salt water, potato, starch, sugar, and of course sodium nitrate. Of course for color. Yes, that captivating pink issue. It describe it. So spam didn't immediately become this worldwide sensation. There were other things happening across the planet that eventually would lead to uh spam becoming like the king of canned meat. And it goes into an angle that a lot of people might not be aware of. It goes to tensions between the US and Japan during the nineteen thirties. There's a guy, Donald M. Shug at the University of Hawaii who published a paper on this, and he says that the US military began to view Hawaii's fishing fleet as a serious threat to national security. So, you know, at this time, Hawaii is still not a US state, right, So when the Japanese government arranged for many of Hawaiis Japanese fishermen to attend fishing schools in Japan, there were concerns that these fishermen were actually being interrogated by Japanese navy officials. Yeah, but to what end? Band to what end? So this eventually, okay, walked through this real quick. So in nineteen forty three years after the invention of span. Suspicions about the loyalty of Japanese immigrants resulted in the implementation of a federal statute that stopped or banned fishing vessels of five tons or more from obtaining licenses unless the ers who owned the vessel was a US citizen. The next year one they passed the law prohibiting quote, aliens from fishing with gil perse or these different kinds of nets within one mile of shore because they wanted to preserve the fishery resources for Native Hawaiians and US citizens. This ended careers of a lot of people in the fishing industry in Hawaii, and then that meant that without spam these other can meets and sardines, the economy would have collapsed. They had to find something to replace this massive fishing industry. And let's not forget about Executive Order nineties sixty six UM where Franklin Roosevelt basically banned Japanese Americans citizens who were occupying military zones had them put in internment camp. So this whole anti Japanese sentiment was wide rife in the country, and weirdly enough, it trickled down to this canned meat product and Of course, these tensions, these discriminatory laws and economic practices were only ripples of a much larger event on the horizon, which is World War Two. And when the war begins, spam also has a part to play. Yeah, it does, because, um, if you remember, spam was pretty new around the time that America was getting involved in World War Two, but it was a popular option for soldiers because, um, getting fresh meat or fresh anything to Hawaii was difficult, um for American soldiers station there. So the US government was sending spam, or it might not have been exactly spam. Wasn't it just kind of like leftover meat parts that they had that they shipped to Hormel and then they made them my spam like stuff. Yeah yeah, yeah, so Hormels canning them. But it probably wasn't exactly what spam is today or what we think of it today. And it was cheap, non perishable, could withstand all sorts of weather conditions. But soldiers weren't exactly happy with spam. They were sometimes eating it three times a day, so I'm sure they were tired of it. Some of them even wrote hate mail to Hormel, which the company kept In a quote scurril less file and some of my favorite dishes are quote meat loaf without basic training, ham that didn't pass its physical and the real reason war was hell, that's great, that's fantastic. It's pretty harsh, So there's some sick burns. Do you think that this would have been like branded as spam, wouldn't have come in the tins, like with the logo on it and everything, because you kind of made a point on your episode of food Stuff back when it was called that that almost like the proper spam kind of got a bad rap because this was like almost like bootleg spam, but it was being manufactured in Hormel's canning facilities. Because I'm wondering if they like branded it differently or called it like Mr. E Spam or something, or I don't know, do you find anything about that in your east. I didn't find much about that at all. In fact, the fact that it wasn't spam was sort of a deep cut. It was kind of lost on people. Clearly they were writing those letters, those angry letters. Oh yeah, and it's also it reminds me of the kind of people that write mean things about podcasts. Well, it's also in the case of spam, there's an interesting linguistic thing that occurs because they're using it as one word to describe this umbrella of umbrella of processed meat. So the image it just got weird for me. But you know, it's it's similar to the way that instead of people saying search for something on the Internet, they say google it, or instead of make a copy, xerox this right, and it's it seems pretty certain in the history that only a few soldiers received genuine spam. But because there had already been this can be product around since the late thirties, that's just what people called it. So maybe spam got an unfair uh mark, a screw realist mark on its its reputation. I wonder if it's possible too that because spam was new and at the time there was such a push to be like but behind the boys and you know, all American soldiers, and America is doing great in the war. Annie is Annie has throwing some great propaganda. She's got these tiny American flags and she's gently twisting between her thumb and four fingers shut off a firecracker. I always come with crops, I always come with props um. But I wonder if maybe they made a miscalculation and thought, oh, spam is supporting the soldiers, and this will really get our name out there. And it did, but not in the way that they were hoping. Oh man, this is like a like an attempt, like a ham fisted half attempted, a kind of stunt fisted spam fisted attempt. That's even better. And he took her the next level, like you do. I'm just curious if there was an element of that behind it, because I could see I could see the calculation there, because it is free advertising when you think about it. That's a good point because these soldiers from the US are traveling around the world. They're going to Europe, they're going to the Pacific, they're going to various different islands, and they're bringing spam along with them. Yeah, and it's a government contract, so you're getting paid to do it. I bet there was something like that going on, and the backlash from the soldiers generated one of my favorite quotes about spam, because there are a lot of excellent quotes about spam. Hormel describes it as meat with a pause button, which I love. I'm gonna need you to unpack that for us a little bit meat with a pause button, meaning like it never goes bad. Or is that the implication? Yeah, like where you put it in that can, it's like a time capsule. It's just gonna stay the same. I got it pushing pause. Another one of my favorite quotes comes from a New Yorker piece. It was all about as a profile on J. Hormel, and in the article, the author wrote, I got the distinct impression that being responsible for spam might be too great a burden on any one. Man. I love that idea, being cursed by the success of spam. Yeah. So is it that the soldiers genuinely didn't like the taste? Or is it? Do you think it's really more because as you said, they were eating it so often. I think it was a couple of things. I think it was they were eating it so often, they were eating it cold. And one of the reasons I found when looking into this question of why spam is so popular in Hawaiian and like other Asian Pacific countries, is because not only were they kind of their hand was forced because of the things you were talking about earlier, where Japanese immigrants couldn't fish, they also were incorporating spam in ways that were delicious, like they were putting them in recipes that they made. Anyway, they were adding them into spam fried rice or spam and eggs. Um soldiers were just eating them cold. Out of ten, I think I have very limited experience with spam. I don't know about the two of you, but limited purpose. I will make a confession that Casey and Annie probably know, you probably don't know UM I received in my early years working when we all started working together, I received an m v P award. Do you remember this, Annie? It's just three cans of spam that have been wrapped together and artistically artistically designs so that parts of the spam logos say m v P or something like that, and uh, it's It's one of the most prestigious awards I've ever received. It's also still in our office in case of an emergency, in case of a trophy emergency, case of a trophy murdery case we're trapped here and we have to eat spam. Oh yeah, I think about that. But but the UM I might have just a little bit more familiarity with this stuff because in boy Scouts we would camp a lot and we would have to we would have to eat that stuff, and we tried to find different ways to make it taste interesting. So it's not the same old thing, but it's already spiced. I mean, what else does it needs? Right, the secret and I don't know what else you're missing, but yeah, it's I think it's the thing that a lot of people did, as you said, the the assimilated spam, yes, um, and to get back to the point that they were putting it in things that I think we're probably much well definitely much more flavorful. And so they had a positive experience with spam um. And on Hawaii after soldiers left, a lot of soldiers when they went home, they brought with them their distaste. They were also turning spam into spaminade, right, I mean, they were flooded and inundated with all this the spam, and because they couldn't get protein from fishing, and didn't the US kind of like send them a lot of the spam because they had like a surplus of the stuff. And that wasn't just during World War two, continue during the Korean War as well. I believe, yes, because um spam was included in a lot of foreign aid packages, and during the Korean War people made something that I'm not entirely sure what's in there, and other folks weren't either, but they called it army stew, and uh, spam was one of the ingredients that we do know. It was featured in Armies Army ste And to this day, Korea is spam's second largest market and it's a popular gift on Lunar New Year in that country. Oh wow, Oh that's cool. Is there? Do they have different varieties of spam in different countries, like different flavors and such. I yes, I'm not I couldn't speak to specific, but I do know that there's a wide variety of spam flavors and that it does vary in um different countries. But Hawaii for sure is the biggest market. Yeah. Do you have some stats for us about that? Do I? Ever? And I'm not sure. I didn't know that spam had this association with Hawaii until I did that the research for that episode, But I think it's pretty common knowledge at least here in the United States. But Hawaiians consume about five million pounds of spam every year, which is about two million a little over two million kilograms and on average that's about three pounds per person or about one point three kilograms a year, or I think around six cans a year for every man, uh, every man, woman, child, any type of humans consuming about six cans of spam a year. I can't we completely forgot hey, Casey, yes, do you have do you have an experience or familiarity with spam? Just the other weird al song, the R E M parody? Yeah? Wait, which was spam in the place where you live? You know that one? I don't. It's a deep weird alcave. Let's stand by R E M. But stand I was not aware there was is this? Is this like classic? Yeah? Mid eight I means whenever stand was out so that I did not Casey on the case, Casey on the case. I like that has a sound effect and everything. Any oh yeah, I mean it's got to because he's on the case. We we love being able to drop the sound cuse and multiple times. Yeah, well just listen after after Casey spinds this intofferent spins the spam into gold, We're gonna be shocked. Um. Hawaii also has what looks to be one of the festivals. I would just be over the moon to attend. It's called spam Jam Festival in y Ki Ki and I was looking at pictures for it. There's just mascot stressed as all the different types of spams, spam eating contest. I think somebody got married there once. It looks awesome and I would love to go and um. Spam is also called Hawaiian steak, which I wasn't sure if it was a joke or not when I was reading that. In the state they call it Hawaiian steak. Okay, so actual native Hawaiians call it that, But from what I understand from what the Internet tells me is okay. I'm just I'm trying to figure out if if we can say that or if that's mocking it. Yeah, right, I not here to mock. Surely they also have steak in Hawaii. Surely they do, but probably yeah, I mean, I'm sure steak is certainly much more expensive than it is here on the mainland, that is true. Yeah, yeah, they kind of take for granted the fact they are sort of isolated and require all of their goods to be shipped in literally you know, by plane or by sea. Yeah, which makes things expensive. So the legacy of spam established during World War Two and the Korean War takes this canned food product, this animal matter from Minnesota to its new home in He said, Hawaii's by far the largest market, Korea's second. That that would that should surprise a lot of people, right, because spam feels like such an American food because of the way it's spread across the planet. Yeah, it surprised me. I do find it really fascinating that it's so local. Lot, it's so specific where people love it. And then I feel like the rest of the world and and the rest of the US, we're kind of like, that's that weird food thing. What is that exactly? But I would like to mention that there is an amazing I've never been, but listeners have sent like, um some some stuff they've gotten from this museum and um austin Minnesota, which is, like you said, spam m USA. And if anyone has the opportunity, I highly recommend it. Its hands on you the sam hands on right. Nice. You get to race to see how many cans of fake it's fake spam that you can make in a minute. It's practice. Yeah, like you're trying to shove it into the can and you're competing against like a robot. So it's kind of like the world of Coca Cola in Atlanta, but with spam. Yes, I would hope that you would have the opportunity to sample different spam, the spams of the world, a world of cove that would be super cool. Um. We didn't really talk about this, and I think it's fine to save it for the end. Spam is cooked in the can. Yeah, the way it's made it isn't that weird that that struck me as super odd And there's a reason for that, right, Yeah, And it has to do with that whole shelf stable thing because you wanna you wanna mix the meat in a vacuum and vacuum seal it and then cook the whole cam that's part of the whole meat with a pause button thing. It's so nothing gets in there that you don't want, unless maybe you don't want the spam, but that's a whole different argument. Um. And when you cook it, the meat breaks down and you're left with a little a little loaf of spam and some juices. We're not making it sound very appetised, semi gelatinous, almost not as gelatinous as it could be if it didn't have that additive right, because it was there, one of those additives that keeps it from forming like a gross congealed layer of goo on the top, to make something that's already not super appetizing practically inedible. And I'll tell you, guys, I will I make a mean spam fried rice if you ever want to come over. If you cut it in the little cubes like that, it's like you hide it. It's like the way I feed my kid vegetables. I chopped the carrots up so small you can't even see them. I mean, spam, for all intensive purposes probably taste fine, but the texture of it and the look of it and the idea of it just give me the give me the gross out. It's the fact that it comes out can shaped. I think for a lot of people, you see the rills in the can and yeah, yeah, but not everybody. Not everybody hated it, right, we said, Hawaiian's welcomed it with open arms. People in parts of the Pacific Rim also really enjoyed it, and the Russians liked it. They called it Roosevelt sausage. Had to be fair. Russian Russian food is pretty gross. I feel like, in terms of cuisine, Russians already very familiar with a lot of canned meat products, you know, like anchovies, different potted meats, So maybe it was just something that already seemed familiar to them. Okay, And first of all, for any Russian listeners out there, I want to apologize for insulting the entire cuisine of Russia, but I just never really run across Russian food that was particularly appetiting to me. It seems like a lot of cabbage, a lot of like barred based things and borsch and you know, very rustic kind of there's a stuff. There's a great Russian restaurant up north of Atlanta where we are based, and I would highly recommend checking it out. And actually, you know, in defense of Russian food, this is totally non span but in defense of Russian food, Uh, make friends with someone who cooks Russian food themselves and it will be amazing. There's always like thirty dishes of things. Yeah, I would imagine that there's probably a lot of food that is historically Russian that is we just have lost. Yeah, we we've forgotten that it is, or we've made it our own thing. I'm sure there's I'm not thinking of any right now, but I'm sure there's good Russian fair and we do like a chicken Kiev. Yeah, we could do a Russian food update to I'm sure we're going to get some emails about this one. Another one of, perhaps one of the most famous Russian fans of spam was Soviet Premier Nikki Ta Kruschev. Oh yeah, he wrote about spam in his memoirs called Krushchev remembers not the most amazingly innovative threat. Yeah, he probably had some threats in there. He probably took some shots. But in the memoir he specifically shouts out spam by saying, quote, there were many jokes going around in the army, some of them off color of American spam. It tastes good. Nonetheless, without spam, we will not feed our army. We would have lost our most fertile land, most fertile land. Got it? Got it? Who was that Russian guy? I was? It was terrible. Oh my gosh, we've got to I've got a practice on the accents, folks. But he raises an interesting point, you know that similar to what was happening with war survivors in the countries on the Pacific Rim. There were people who would have starved without access to this easily transportable, infinitely durable food. Yeah, kind of along the same lines. Margaret Thatcher called it a wartime delicacy. She called spam a wartime delicacy. And it's interesting, I think, because there is an odd sense of nostalgia for spam that a lot of people have, and I feel that it needed time to get away from the war the direct aftermath, but then after that people had this association with spam. It was there for me when I needed it. Yeah. It's also one of those things where it's like it hasn't changed much. The branding is the same. It's you know, people have fond memories of that and they like the idea. You know, everything in this in this fast paced, mixed up world of ours, everything's always changed in a mile a minute. But we can rely on spam. Yes, the spam never changes. Like our true North. There we go, true North of canned animal matter. I do have a question, this is something that I was wondering if we could explore together, how did spam also become a term for uh deluges? Of bizarre emails. Well, then it has to do with Monty Python. Oh yeah, yeah, that's catch right. Yes, can you describe the games? We should just play a clip of it all. You got the egg and bacon, egg, sausage and bacon. I can span egg, bacon and SPA, Bacon sausage and Span, SPAN bacon sausage and SPA, SPA Stan bacon and Span, Span Span spanag and Span, spam spam spans, Span, Span Span BA clean spam spam span aspall. Oh, lost door prevents for the moon. I saw collanda and probably and span. Do you want anything without spaming it? Well, span, egg, sausage and span. There's not much spamming it. I don't want any spam. The end credits for that episode, by the way, include UM spam with every company member spam, Terry Jones, Terry Spam, sausage spam, eggspam UM, and the idea of just like inundating you with something, yeah, like annoying you always kind of just blaring in the back of your mind. UM. It has no appreciable content. It's omnipresent. But as you can imagine, Hormel doesn't exactly love that association. Yeah, I think they've even tried to. I think there was some very quickly defeated legal way they tried. It's not like anybody branded spam. It's just in the zeit guys. You would just toss it around, you know it. I'm not sure everyone, I'm not sure what they thought. They could just send out a message to everyone, a spam message, and say, please use a different term for this, what this thing is that we're sending. Usually when people or institutions or companies attempt to do something like that, they just make the problem much much worse, such as when a celebrity politely asked the Internet to take down a photo of them. Yeah, what I mean, So they've probably done the math and they thought, if we ask people to not do this, it's not gonna work. I know there's some Um, there's a bit of a renaissance sometimes for spam, every so often in more high end restaurants, right, yes, Um. I saw this a lot when I was in San Francisco a couple year or so ago. And there's one restaurant I think it's called Leo Leo Yacht Club something like that, and they have a lot of spam options on their menu, and it's a very nice restaurant. Visit Hawaiian. Like, it's just like, what's this loco moco I keep hearing about. Loco is good. It's like spam with gravy or something. Yes, rice, maybe it's rice, spam gravy and a fried egg. You can also get it with ground b for other meats, for a hamburger patty. Yes, so that's what I had. I didn't have spam locomoco okay, okay, I did have the other one. And it was very interesting that there's like high end Hawaiian restaurants that still use this uh pretty cheap, not very nutritional canned meat. Speaking of nutrition, just want to point out real quick that one of these Kansas spams twelve ounces and it apparently contains about six servings um which contain so the six servings and they can which come only, and it contains of the daily recommended fat intake for the US and thirty of the sodium. So it's not a health food no. But but there's another set. American ze'd approximately three point eight cans per second. Problem with that step because I think Hawaii is throwing off the average. I yes, I would agree, I can't really recall spam ever coming up in my childhood as an option. Well, you clearly didn't have elderly parents like I did. They you know, remembered it fondly from the wartime where my parents weren't alive in World War Two, but their parents were, and so it was something. You know, a lot of people that went through the depression, they like they learned how to hoard properly, and they learned how to like be frugal and like use canned meats and things. I remember growing up and my grandpapa would make brains and eggs, which is like the brain. It's literally I didn't even realize this until many years later. It's like cow brains and eggs. But it was like a cheap part that you could just you know, added a little texture and a little flavor to your eggs. Same with spam or something called liver pudding or scrapple is what it's known as in the wearing that the Midwest like up in the Yeah, yeah, exactly. I liked all of those things and didn't think anything of it. But they're both kind of these congealed meat cubes that you then slice up and fry like spam, So there's there's there's other analogs to spam. Absolutely, these are foods that come about out of necessity, you know, And I think necessity and nostalgia are inextricably intertwined here. So I guess I guess the next question would be what is the what is the future of spam? Are they slowing up? Are they speeding up? I think they they're in a good place. I definitely don't think that they need to be worried. I Hawaiians love it. They're going to keep the market going. Um. Like we said, these fancier restaurants, and this is a trend. We see a lot where the combination of high end and low end. I've seen around Atlanta government cheese at really nice restaurants pretty frequently. So I don't think they have to be worried. What they should be worried about is theft. That's right. Okay, can you tell us a little bit about this? Yes, we love well. I can't speak for you, but I love I love a good high story. Do you love a good high story? Now you were wrong. You shouldn't have spoken. Of course, I love a good high story, especially when it involves an absurd potted meat a spam high story is it's up there. That's a good one. Lately, there have been a spate of spam thefts in Hawaii. In one account, three women filled a cart with eighteen cans of spam at a drug store and made a dash for the exit. But this customer, he just planted himself in front of the doors and said, what are you doing with that spam? He didn't say that, but along those lines, and they made a run for it, and they did not succeed in their heist, but enough people have that now some stores have started storing their cans of spam locked in those plastic cases that are typically used for expensive items electronics. Yeah, now spam is back there. You have to go ask for key. The reason for this is super interesting. It has to do with a change in the law in Hawaii where I think like in the past theft up to three hundred dollars was considered a felony, and then they raised it to seven hundred, So you could steal up to seven hundred dollars worth of spam and it would be just a misdemeanor if they caught you. But also it's like, how are you gonna, you know, track down the purp if you don't catch them doing it. And the fact that this famous spam shelf stability means that you don't have to fence it right away. You can sit on your stash for a while. And this great article from grub Street that you turned us onto Annie Hawaiian grocery stores reportedly overrun with spam bandits spammed its um that it's it's like an epidemic, and it's a lot largely the article can jectures folks are stealing the stuff so that they can flip it and buy drugs. Um. But it's so flippable because the market for spam in Hawaii is like through the roof. Yeah. Tina Yamaki, the president of Retailed Merchants of Hawaii, calls it organized retail crime, and she she's spoken a lot about the spam black market and how you can buy spam out of somebody's car, like out of their trunk. Wow, it's just you know, usually if I see somebody with a ton of canned meat in their trunk standing by the side of the road, my first instinct isn't to ask them how much and what the going prices. You clearly are not a spam fan, Ben, I'm not. You know what I'm I can say safely. I'm a fan, but I don't think I'm built to be a spam tycoon. I hope they're out there somewhere in Hawaii. I hope there's a black market spam tycoon. And I hope that you are listening to this show. We want to make God have mercy on your soul. You gotta have mercy on your spam. I think we all want to hear spam recipes from listeners if you're a fan of spam. Well, speaking of spam recipes, when we talked about like how the Hormeil company is doing and moving forward or whatever, well they've really embraced a lot of this kitch surrounding spam and like the Massu bees and all that, and they have like recipes on their site. For this fantastic national geographic article by April Fulton shows some images of some of the stuff that I'm talking about. One of them is a Hello Kiddie Spam musubie that they show you how to make um. They also have a tour, a national tour called the Tiny House of Sizzle Tour where they are shopping around the whole us of a um a spicy spam breakfast burrito recipe made by their chef Jordan's and Dino, and it's like a traveling link Spam food truck, sort of the way you see the Oscar Meyer wiener Uh mobile or whatever. So you know, Spam's not slowing down. They're they're they're rising to the occasion. They're adapting to the times. Yeah, they're adapting times. They always haven't want to show you, guys. One of my favorite pictures, so Annie on this show. We love vintage advertise too, So Spam Dandy is one of my one of my favorites. And they have these collections of all their ads that have the exact nostalgia tone um for anybody who enjoyed our previous episode on what was It? Noal? Was it meat jello? Yeah, aspects and also just like various savory gelatin dishes that were very popular as like centerpieces and made you seem like you really had your homemaking skills in order. And spam, I'm sure it's all part of this, like the food of the Future movement. Oh, we'll just eat out of tins, and that's super progressive and like shows that we have money or something. Even though it was cheap and gelatine was cheap, it was a very odd dichotomy and that really interesting to look back on. Gelatin Just when you see pictures of those things at the center of a dining table, it strikes me as love crafty and I'm gonna be honest, it's something from like the Dark beyond the stars. Oh, I love looking at a good aspect or meat jelly. They're they're hilarious and they are that interesting intersection of At the time, if you didn't have a lot of money, you wanted to put a lot of work and artistry into a thing to show that you were successful and that you could afford to do this. But it was a cheap food thing. It was everyone was participating in kind of this masquerade, of this facade. And and spam is a similar food in that it does have that futuristic it'll last forever vibe, but it's very cheap. And during the recent recession in two thousand eight, because of this, spam saw an increase of sales of ten because yeah, it is a food that that people people can't afford and there aren't strict numbers, but according to the Hormel website UM they estimate of point eight cans of spam are consumed every second across the planet. Mostly that's not even to speak of the ones that are just hoarded in a bombshell right or in the trunk of a Cadillac driving so where near you. I love it. Well. I don't know about you, guys, but I'm filled with gratitude at the end of this episode for you, Annie. My heart is just bursting out of my chest with gratitude, clearly more gratitude than either Been or Casey are capable of mustering. Annie, I wasn't really listening when Nolan is talking about I do want to say thank you so much for coming on the episode. I'm kidding, no, I think we're both really happy that you took the time here and uh taught us so much about spam. I'm wondering if I'm going to cook something this weekend. We've talked so much about it. I feel like we've almost in a way consumed it ourselves just by exploring this concept. I think we should do a potted meat like uh pot luck. Let's do it Look, it would be a pollock potted potted meat. Look, this is the office to host such an event. There would be very creative concoctions behind the curtain. Folks. We recently hung out after work and had a game night where we learned. Uh. Well I think you already knew all the games, Annie, but we both learned some really cool stuff. So shout out to Dix it right, Dix it fun to say, fun to play. That should be their tagline. That should have it. You're gonna give it to them for free? Well, I don't know. They can send me some some swag, some mugs or something. You guys can have. It was so fun, it was It was really really enjoy and it was a successful game nine. I look forward to doing it again, um, but I also look forward to having you Annie on the show again. Yes, please, yes please. This was so this was so much fun. Yes, We're so glad you enjoyed. Uh. I'm a huge fan of food history, as you know from some of our works outside of this show. But in the meantime, before you make another return appearance, where can our listeners here more of your work with how Stuff Works? You can find me um over at Favor podcast your Internet humans, I'm sure you can find it, but I will say it's Savor without the you. So for the non American listeners among you. Um, and I also am a co host of a show called Stuff Mom Never Told You, which you can google Google right away and you'll find it. Fantastic shows. Do check them out, Uh, the shows that I personally listened to in my free time. So okay, yeah, I don't want a fanboy out too much, but maybe i'll ask your autograph after the show. I definitely listened to the Spam episode today and crypt most of my notes of this episode from that episode. So this is where that yeah mistake that consumes its tale. Uh, and we have more tales to tell. We had earlier said that we would be exploring some more spooky stories as we lead up to Halloween, So tune in next time when we delve into of this strange story of well mummies, yeah Mexican mummies to be precise. And in the meantime, like to thank casey our superproducer Alex Williams, who composed our theme, research associates Christopher Hasciodas and Eve's Jeff Code and Ben as usual I'd like to throw a little thanks your way, my friend, and just being you, I would like to treat that thanks like a boomerang, add some extra thanks to it, and make sure it gets right back to you. Why do you guys have to want up be on the thanks my man? I just like hanging outright. We'll see you next time, folks,