Gam is joined by two incredible women, Salli Richardson-Whitfield (Director and Executive Producer of The Gilded Age) & Sidra Smith (Executive Producer and Co-Founder of ESSENCE Studios), who share their experiences working in the media industry. From directing to producing to being Black women in entertainment, they cover it all!
Guest Information:
@sallirichwhit Salli’s Instagram
@sallirichardson Salli’s Twitter
@sallirw Salli’s Facebook
@sidrasmithofficial Sidra’s Instagram
@sidrasmith Sidra’s Twitter
@TashaAndSidra Sidra’s Facebook
Host Information:
@gammynorris Gammy's Instagram
@gammynorris_ Gammy's Twitter
@gammynorris Gammy's Facebook
@gammynorris Gammy’s TikTok
#PositivelyGam
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POSITIVELY GAM is produced by Red Table Talk Podcasts. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS Fallon Jethroe, Adrienne Banfield Norris, and Jada Pinkett Smith. CO-EXECUTIVE PRODUCER Sim Hoti. ASSOCIATE PRODUCER Irene Bischofberger. EDITOR AND AUDIO MIXER Calvin Bailiff. THEME SONG by dbeatz. POSITIVELY GAM is in partnership with iHeartRadio.
What's up, everybody. I'm Gammy and this is positively gam Now. Many of you know how much I love movies and TV, and often you'll see me shouting out different black artists and creative because I think it's important to uplift and celebrate the joy these people have brought to our community today. I have two incredible women joining me on this episode, both of whom I have a personal connection to um But I really want what I really wanted to emphasize in this conversation because when people go to the movies and when people think about the entertainment business, they really just think about actors and who they see in front of the camera. And I get that because that's who we see. But there's so much going on behind in the scenes, so many important people and careers, and that's kind of what I want to focus on. And these women are really killing it in the game right now. So my first guest is Sally Richardson Whitfield. She has over thirty years of experience as an actress, starring in movies like Low Down, Dirty Shame, where she was Jada's nemesis Angelo, one of my favorite movies. I must say, uh, and then you were in. I am legend with will and willow Um and so many It just goes. The list just goes on and on for you. Sally Antoine Fisher um the TV show Eureka. She is also a director and producer. Currently she's directing an executive producing The Guilded Age on HBO, which I love. And also you are directing some episodes of Winning Time. And then I have my special guest, Cidra Smith. She is an award winning producer and also serves as executive producer and co founder of Essence Studios, overseeing the fifty year old brands scripted, unscripted and feature film projects. And I really didn't know you were doing all of that. I really didn't now. And that's how film. Yeah, you were the producer for the Angela Davis film and you actually brought Jada in as a producer. Yes, yeah, that was a great project too. That was a great project. So welcome to both of you. I thank you so much for taking the time to join me because I know how busy you guys are. But I want to start with you, Sidra, how did you get started in the entertainment industry? Did you start out as a model, you know, I did actually league, of course, and then realized, wait, and then realized I liked eating pasta more than modeling. Okay, literally, when you know, it's funny because when Tasha and I moved to l A when we were like eighteen years old, we started off hanging out in comedy clubs and Tasha was pursuing her career as a comedian and I was modeling and hanging out in comedy clubs. And then one day I got a job in France, went there for three months, worked and then went to Italy and worked for almost two years, and decided that I just could not keep up with them skinny girls because I was trying to eat the pasta and drink the wine. So let me hold off for a minute, just for the listeners. Sidra has a twin sister, Tasha Smith, who I'm sure you guys will all no as an actress from many many movies. Yeah. Yeah, So I just realized that I just could not keep up with the skinny girls. And it came back to l A and then started working in production from an assistant to a production assistant to a coordinator, and then started casting and then found my space as a producer and uh, and it's been an amazing journey. Okay, So tell me exactly what producer's role is. What what does that mean to be a producer? You know, when someone has an idea, you know, everything starts with an idea, taking that idea to putting together the right development team, developing the script, finding the right director, finding the right writer, actor, cinematographer, sets, getting it shot, packaged and sold and then so and supporting and supporting the directors because if a director doesn't have a producer who's fully supporting their vision, then a lot of times it makes the director's you know, job difficult. So you know, it's just it's planting, is setting the stage for everything that needs to have to bringing an idea to life. So, Sally, let me ask you, because you have such a career as an actress in front of the camera, what made you make this switch? Well, Um, honestly, it was I was doing Ava dubern As first film. You know, she had done documentaries at that point. Um, it was called I Will Follow, And during that process I probably was just talking too much and give my ideas too much, but I'm like, um, but sometimes during that process, Ava looked at me and said, Sally, I think you're a director and you don't know it, and something about her just breathing that into me. I it's like my life flashed before me. And I was that person who sat at the sat there with a DP DP and asked questions about what's going on and paid attention, and also the one going well, I don't know that. Why don't they just do this and this and this, and then we could do that, you know. And so I was on Eureka at the time. I called a friend of mine, Eric Lanaville, who is a director hundreds of hours of TV, and said, Eric, I think I want to give this a shot, but of course, you know, you have to do it the right way. I said, let me shadow you. Ava gave me some books. I found some other books, shadowed him on a few projects, then asked my show and they said yes. And after that first episode, or like literally within the first few hours, I went, oh, I understand this. I get this, and then I did another one. Then my kids were young, it wasn't the time to you know. It is like going back to say medical school or law school, all of a sudden, Um, you have to really immerse yourself in it, and it takes a lot of time away from your family, so they were older anyway, I just started then I UM. Then all of a sudden, Queen Sugar was happening. I had just found an agent. This is like a few years later. Decided UM started shadowing people again, and my husband was on Queen Sugar. I went to visit him. I'm trying to make this a short story, and and I see you here for I UM because I had called aiban. I said, hey, I hear you doing the show down. He's only blah blah. I want to direct. She goes, oh my god, already cast you know, already hired all the directors. I didn't know. I go, fine, it's not the right thing. Then cut to visiting the set. First person I see getting out of the car with Dandre is Ava and she goes, oh my god, I can't believe you're here. Come talk to me. Sat down. She goes, I can't do my episodes? Do you want to? I said, wow, But you know I was ready. I had been back and had my agent. I was. You know, it all has to can't be just you know, you just flying around. Has to all come together, right, that's a classic case of being in the right place at the right time and about meets opportunity, you know, and being ready and then all of that just and from there, let me tell your Facebook work for me. And then I started posting that I was shooting that, and then other directors I had been working with who had direct did me and who had worked on Eureka, said Hey, I see your directing again. UM I need someone for my show. Why don't you come over that with Shadow Hunters. He goes, there's a lot of visual effects. You started doing that on Eureka. Some of this stuff I can just walk you through. I know you'll get it. Went over there. Someone else saw I was directing. Hey, how she doing over there? She's doing great. You should hire her. Um. So it just kind of I didn't know I was giving up acting at the time, and then it just started. It was like an avalanche. Well how do you feel about that? Do you do? You do you feel like you're missing something or it sounds like you're you're really fulfilled by this directing position. I am. I absolutely love what I'm doing, though there are times because I'm very lucky to be working with like amazing amazing caliber actors. Um on work that is really good stuff? Where go I want to jump in there? Um? And I actually look at Tasha and Regina and I go, they found a way to do both for me, and I just felt like I had to kind of immerse myself in it. Um. But I don't think you know they're gonna be something for me? Uh, sidros with me in something? And uh yes, the girl you already know you already well, sid let me ask you. Let me jump back to you and ask you this question. How do you decide what projects you're gonna take on? You know you have to be passionate, Gammy, you know why this takes too much work? Like the days of just doing stuff unnecessarily are just over. Like if you're not passionate about a project, more than likely you won't see it through. So I really look at something and say, let me tell you. The first thing I say to myself is what I do this for free? Because it's takes a long time sometimes to get things over the finish line. And if you feel like, whether I'm getting paid or not, I would do this project. It's something that you know, if it's something that really speaks to your soul speaks to your legacy, things speaks to things that you really believe in in the stories you want to leave behind for people to say, wow, Ciel Smith did that or was a part of that? You know, I kind of start there. You know, did you have ever have any desire to be in front of the camera as an actress? Oh? My god, let me tell you no, Although when you're a twin you know that no, no, no, And let me tell you I knew. I'll never forget. Tasha and I were like nineteen no, not like eighteen like when we first because it was before Italy. We were living in l A. Someone cast us in a McDonald's commercial and I was like, this was taken too long. I'm like, wait a minute. It was going into like overtime and I was on my way to see Luther andros in Vegas and I was like, the car was outside. I said, guess what. I'm out? He said, and Tasha was his She was like, you were not. I was like, I'm out, I'm not doing this. I'll never forget. The casting director was this guy named Peter Wise. Y'all know Peter. Yes, It's like Peter was like, you know, he never cast me in another and I was like, Nah, this isn't for me. What about you, Sally, how do you decide what projects? Because you there's so much diversity with what you've done, like the Guilded Age. I know, well, in the beginning, I took everything, and I mean and when I say everything, not everything. I wanted to conquer, like every different kind of genre that came to me. Um, okay, so it's sci fi, it's an action show. Oh, this is pure drama. This is half our comedy. This is our comedy. Um. Because I didn't want anyone to ever when I'm now that I've moved up the ranks, um as I'm any bigger projects, I didn't want you to ever be able to say, yeah, but does she know how to do this? Has she done this? Yes? There's nothing you can throw at me now that I haven't in some way directed so. But now, of course I'm very particular about what I'm doing. Um. I am uh developing my own show and in like in like um Sidrius saying I have to live with it. If I'm going to be at the Gilded Age, that's a that's what, thank you. It's a year or two of my life and and away from your family and away from I mean it was during COVID. It was nine months in New York. I barely got to see them because I couldn't go back and forth. So it was you know, I have to really love it and and want to see my name on it and want to be proud of it, the same as my acting. I have to live with this forever, and I want and I only want to do quality work. I just, um, get very picky about what I think is good. I don't think much is good. And yeah, a lot of things giggle or like that was good. I'm like, but was it you got different scale? Yes? Well, talking about judging, what were you both seeing model for you as black women working in the entertainment business, Sally, was was there a particular person that you were looking to? Who were your role models? I have to tell you, I don't know really if there was for me. You know, I had to think about this question a lot because people have always asked this, and then I started making up people because I'm like, I'm supposed to have an answer because you think you're supposed to and and I and I didn't. I just, um, this is what I wanted to do. I went to l A. Obviously, as I was watching you know, a Different World on TV right around the time I was moving to California, I was, you know, watching The Cosby Show. So there were you know, there was you know, um, the Jefferson's growing up. You know, there were things for me to to see and focus on, but not necessarily where I completely saw myself. And I have no idea why my parents were both educators. I have no idea why I thought this was something I should be doing, but it was the only thing I was great at and I just went for it. So um no, so no, I just I didn't and I'm hoping to be that person now for other people. Yes, I feel you, Sally. You know what's interesting about that question. I feel like I was like I feel like my crew. You know when you think about it, Sally, We've been like our crew over the last thirty years and just all the fun we had, you know, from twenty one, just I was so inspired by our crew. Just gave me inspiration, I think I think about I think you're right because until like not to l A and found this small little community. It's I mean, we all came up together. It's jadaam like, we used to have so much fun playing a lot of babies. Uh yeah, playing a lot of space. Um. But he did all come up together. We all came up together. And it's amazing that that our little group that everyone has done something. Everyone has grown and changed and different had taken different lanes maybe, but everyone has done probably different more than they thought they were going to do. I'm telling you I was thinking the same thing, and when I saw Sally was a part of this, I was thinking to myself, does Sally have any idea that she would be this kick? Asked? Can I say? Asked director? Because because that was that's my next question? What what are some of the challenges that both of you have come up? Again? As H B I C S And let me change that B B C right, I'm gonna like to send you you go first, You go first, and I'll jump in you. You know what, I would say some of the early challenges were in terms of just as a producer, financing. You know, you're always looking for that financing in order to get that project done right, and that I would be exhausting. Yeah, but you know what I realized what I'm happy I realized is that it's okay for people to say no, right because everyone's not gonna like your project. And the idea is is to find that person who does, because you want that person to want to do it, to believe in and you want that whether financing or studio, you know, you want them to believe in the project because that's the only way it's gonna happen in a beautiful way. So whenever I hit a know or it took a little bit longer, there was always a reason it made the project better, stronger. It's all about timing, you know what I mean. It's all about timing. But early on, I would say financing was the biggest struggle. Like I look at these young people these days. It's like the opportunity there is now with all these streamers and studios, and it's just like wow, it's amazing. I well, I look at the drection. I know that you have had to navigate this mostly white, male dominant world the same way I do, which is you know, um, you have to you have to pull on all of your communication skills and righting bob be through this and get what you want without being too angry. Without but being firm being the boss. But how do I how do you love me when we leave here? Even though I have to put my foot down sometime. So it's been that is the roller coaster ride and the that I have to deal with. And then you know, in the beginning, if they know you're a little green the question and you're a black woman on the set, which most of them have never worked with, uh, you get more questions. And I, luckily early on the DP of my first DP on Eureka was just like, listen, most of the time, they're gonna be messing with you, telling you they can't do something that you want them to do. Just tell them, just act like you know more than you know, and they will find and they'll do it. You know, Like listen, I can't listen. I can't because sometimes I don't know how you can do that. I just know it can be done. And I've also learned at this point in my life, if I can dream it, you can do it. I don't know how, I don't know what figure it out. I don't know what tool you're gonna do to do it, but we're doing it. So and as long as we have the time to do it. I know how to. You know, I am a producer too. I know, Okay, we got these few hours, but I'm pretty sure we can figure this out. But most of mine, I would say, it's been having to navigate this world of men be in charge and but still have a good time. I want to have a good time. I love what I do. I'm a pretty nice person unless you really be messing with me. I'm really cool. So let's have ye from Chicago. Yes, I'm liking that. There's been a few people who have found out like, oh, who who is this? I'm like, well, I kept giving you the look and you kept going now you. I mean, there's definitely been times on set where I'm like, okay, you feel that comfortable to disrespect me here? Now it's on. You're about to get it in front of everybody too. I bet you nobody else doesn't you know? Okay, and I know I sound amazing, but but how do you know? But that always comes late? Like by then everyone knows me, they know my temperament, and they know whoever that person was must have really pushed her, because that is not who I am. I want a team, and I want us all to have a great time and create something amazing. Well, let me ask you, what what was it that drew you, um sally to the Gilded Age? You talked about having conquered some of the other genres, So was it just doing a period piece? I think it was the challenge. I mean, I do love these kinds of films. I think that a lot of people do a lot of people with color do they think we don't? But I love it like a dangerous love it. And then it's Julian Fellows and then as HBO, So what am I gonna say no to that? And it's the challenge of such a huge project and and having so now being put in the position of now becoming the executive producer of that. I had a lot to say, I had a lot of I was walking the footsteps of a lot of the stuff that Sidra does. You know, it's a little different in TV, but UM learned a lot and um, but it was my best experience in my life. Awesome, UM. So, compared to the beginning of your careers, both of you, now that you're in a higher leadership positions on set, how has that shifted your perceptive your perspective around inclusivity. Let's start with you, Sidra Y. It's so interesting because you know, the one beautiful thing out you know, leading a leading the film and TV vertical within a brand who is here to serve black women deeply and people of color deeply. It is like a blessing, you know, because you get to hire black people who don't always have the opportunity, you know. I mean, it's like and it's funny. And this started off early for me. You know. The first film that I did was in nine seven, and I made sure that my entire crew were women. They weren't all black women at the time, but they were they were women, you know what I mean. And but being in this position, you know, look, there are times where you might have to hire a person because they're good at what they do. But when I start, you know, putting a team together, I'm really looking for black women, queer women, trans women, you know what I mean, Black men too, you know, to to to give these opportunities to because we just don't have them all the time. What about you, Sally, did you find it difficult finding um diversity in the crew for the Guilded Age? Well, most of the shows that that is you know, we've been so focused, um as an entertainment business on black people in front of the camera. Behind the camera is really where there's a lack of opportunity. And so I'm kind of working. I'm working within the system that's already there. So what I what I'm trying to do when I'm there is open people's eyes to looking around, going, um, this makes no sense. How do we get more people in here? And And because I can do that, now, I can say, hey, we need to hire here, here, and here. Um. And I've been very lucky in particular learn on on the Gilded Age because after the first season, I was able to go, Okay, guys, you have me, you have the other writer who's working with Julian and you. We have this black historian. I said, And and when we've done the Black Family, now we got to do better in the office here. Now we have to do better with different departments throughout the set. In hair and makeup, we got to have some black people in here. And what's been so wonderful is that in in besides HBO, but with you know, because then you have your onset producers. They were like just so open to everything. And then when I came into production for this new season, I go into office, I see two three little black people were you walk around and I'm like, all right, Like I felt her, I didn't have to keep bringing it up. We had a conversation and it was done and they understood. And because I do believe now this isn't with everyone, but in particular the people that I was working with on The Gilded Age, because I really love them. We've worked together on other shows too. It's almost it's like they're hiring the people they know, they're hiring people they worked with before, and they're not necessarily thinking that way, but when it's pointed out, they're like, yeah, you're right, it wasn't done with any like malice. Now we're gonna help. Now, we are going to be conscious about our choices. And so I am I kind of work and more like, I'm a quiet person who works her way to doing certain things and adding adding that diversity. And you know one thing I want to answer that Gammian and Sally, It is really shocking all the time how many black people don't know young black people who want to be in this business, who don't know all of the opportunities that exist behind the camp. This is what I'm talking about. What I'm talking about it exactly, and this is I mean, even just doing this podcast, I wanted a black producer. I have a black producer like that was that was a must. Yeah. I I went recently, I went back to my hometown where I'm doing a huge project UM in Camden, New Jersey. I visited our high school, which has an amazing performing arts department, and in the department, people really all the kids like we're trying to be in front of the camera. I asked a question. I said, how many of you like to cook? So many hands went up. How many of you like to do hair? How many of you like to do make up? How many of you want to be a stylist? I mean, I asked the and then I separated them in those categories, and I'm like, do you realize even driving, how many of you like to drive? I separated them into categories and I talked to them about how much money they could make in those categories. They were in shock. And I think that we need to encourage more young people to pursue careers behind the scenes in this space, because you can make two or three hundred thous dollars a year just driving. Listen. I mean, this is so important, This is so important, and this is exactly why I wanted to have the conversation because people don't think about all of this all the all they see is in front of the camera. But then because they're thinking that big, big, big money, and not everybody is gonna get that, not even the act exactly exactly, exactly exactly. Yeah, but I'm but I it's something that I really think is important, you know, for us to encourage people, you know, young people to just consider you know, so that we can see more of us. Yeah, exactly, and so that I mean honestly, so you don't get to the point. There are times on a show like Gilded, which is such a big machine, if you're not giving those small opportunities and smaller jobs, when I'm looking for someone who's ready and just bring you in if you're not ready, and that show, it's a big show. So I'm calling all sorts of people to go, who is ready for this opportunity because I can't mess it up. I can't bring you in and it's not right because they won't give you another shot. No, you got that right, and that par Sally, So I get what I'm hearing is that you should not be discouraged when you have to start out at the what you guys call below the line positions like pas and things like that, and you can have to kind of work your way up to the quote unquote above the line positions with the executive producers, and that nowadays people don't uh, they just want to jump boom. They there don't want the right. Because I didn't have so many situations when these young people think that they can they can do it, like I got it, I got it, I got it. I'd be like, but you don't got it, you don't know it, and you have no idea. And I'm just getting there. I'm in my ladies and I still and every step I go, I go, oh god, I don't know how to do this part. I hope I can do this part, you know, and I just go anyway. You know. Yeah, it's interesting. So where do you hope to entertainment industry goes from here? Um? Shoot, that's a hard that's a hard question, I think, and it's a very broad question too. I think this I think this time for us, you know, there's always been these little waves of black people are working a lot. We're doing all these shows, and then we disappear and then we have to find our way back up. I feel like because of the amount of people who are behind the camera now, who are creating their own shows, black writers and producers, UM, where we're doing our own content. I feel like it we're not going away this time. I feel like we're there to stay and um that's all. That's all I would you know, I ain't trying to go there and I'm trying to bring more people with me. Yeah. Absolutely, And I agree with you. I kind of feel like we need more, um definitely need more more people behind the scenes than in front of the camera. I feel like we need a lot, we need more more writers. I agree, I agree, but you know, let me. I'm so I'm so removed from from all of this, really, I mean, I just I think that we have so many stories to tell, you know, and so much content that is not being created. I think we need creators. And I think that's what Sidra is. I think, honestly, that's what Sidra Um has been there at the forefront of this UM and she is really a pioneer doing these things behind the scenes that people don't know about. And um, and there's more and more um there, there are more and more people that are understanding that producing and the power of the pen. I wish I could write and the power of the pen is where the power of the pen. Yeah, and let me tell you I agree with them with needing more writers. And I feel like for the people who are really ready to do the work, Like I'm constantly looking for writers who are good but whatever may have had that opportunity. But there is a pool like I'm seeing. I feel like some stuff is about to happen because a lot of these young black female writers in particular that I've come across are hungry and focused and not playing. I just I just put a couple of young black female writers on the team to get some stuff done. And I'm like, super, senior, super, I will do I mean, I mean, honestly, I have this deal at HBO, and um, you know, we've sold two projects. But I'm looking and looking and and and then you want to give it to black writers, Like you said, you have to get you have to be given those small steps to be able to do the big stuff. But I find and I find this with a lot of writers. It's not great. Just like there's not a lot of great actors. There's not a lot of great writers, and there's not a lot of great actors who understand nuance, and there's not a lot of great writers who understand. Like I read stuff and I'm like, this is being made and I'm like to me, I'm like, no, that about then you are offering. But I hear that all the time. I hear that all the time, just listening into Jada and Will. They're like, you know what, we want to do this, but the writing it's just it's just not right right, it's not good enough yet. And what drives me crazy sometimes about these studios that I'm noticing is that they'll see a show right that a writer may have done a really good job, but they wrote it. They've been with that particular thing. To me, sometimes writers who come up with their own ideas aren't always the writers to execute someone else elves idea absolutely do you know what I'm saying, And then they'll say, oh, just because that movie was successful, let's use that person. But then it's like what they wrote is like completely different. It's their first thing it's like, don't be afraid and don't be afraid to to meet with and get pictures from people who ain't never done nothing, you know, instead of just going to that person who's hot at the time, who you know what I mean, And a lot of people who are hot at the time, ain't that good time has passed? Like you're like, I'm fair, let moved, Sally, don't even give me. I'm behind the scenes now, so I know what's happening. That's all I got. And let me just say to what the audience really needs to understand is how much power there is behind the scenes. And that's why I wanted to have you two ladies on here, because there's power behind here. You have you have influence and a lot of things and how things move and how things work and how things go. So more than I had. I'm still working of some more, alright, so for each of you, and we'll start with you, Sally, what are you currently working on? I am I'm not worry. I'm still I'm producing obviously on the Gilded Age. Yeah. I don't think I'm allowed to say right now, but I am going to be another producer and director on another one of their shows, but I can't say yes, Um, but it's good. Well, I mean, you know, and yeah, and so that's giving me busy and shows that we're you know, I'm developing over there on HBO. So you're focusing on your deal with HBO and you're still focusing right now on your producing and directing. Yes, and what about you, Sidra, I Love and Selling Girl. So I'm just like, I'm loving all it is. Wow. You know, it's funny. You know, we have one of one of them. One of the shows that I developed is on b ET Plus. It's called I Love Tell Yes, and I'm working on season two. So I'm like working through the development of that, you know, literally a couple of projects in development over with Essen Studios and just excited about it. We're launching our first Essence Film Festival. That's happening. Yeah, that's launching at Essence Festival this year, and so I'm really excited to see what kind of new emerging artists that we come across. And um, and just constantly developing and producing and supporting projects that I believe in. So I'm excited, you know. And the biopick, the Angela Davis biopick you know, we got that over at lions Gate, So trying to get that in a good place when putting this in your in your mind. So you need to get out listening. They need to do a cover with all the women behind the camera, all the beautiful You ain't never lied, ye, going that out there? Ye listen, we'll pitch that today. How about that? Absolutely? How about and you can't. I can do it on my own. But I'm gonna ask you. I know, you know somebody over there. I'm gonna get on that now. Okay, I got I got one final question for you guys, and it's kind of a no brainer. I probably don't even need to ask it, but I'm gonna asking anyway. Why do you think diversity is so important in front of the camera and behind the camera. Just different perspectives on life. Yeah, my perspective is different than yours, Gammy, and then yours, Sidra. So we need we all, we need a million different voices for us to understand each other. Um as people, I got it. Yeah. And for me, you know, what I just think about is just us controlling just us as as people of color, controlling our narratives. And that's why it's so important to support our stories and that we be in the front of that, so that a hundred years from now, a thousand years from now, when people are seeing stories about people of color, we know that we help drive some of those narratives. You know what I mean, because the way black people tell black stories is different from how white people tell black stories. So absolutely, all right, as we wrap up, I'm gonna have a few rapid fire questions for you guys. Oh They're easy, don't worry about it. What book are you currently reading? And we'll start with you, Sidra. You know what I'm reading. I'm checking out this book called Gray Boy, about this kid that is kind of a black kid navigating himself through a white world. And it's funny. I picked it up because y'are Shahiti just watching the book. It's like they're turning it into a series, so I'm curious to see the before and but it's pretty good. A young writer. Yeah, okay, okay, what about you, Sally my my, this is how I'm trying to be a mother. It's called How to Make Your Kids, Uh Money genius? I love it. Can I get that book? I listen? I listened on audible because I am not. You know, I have to hire people to do all this stuff, because you could explain to me all day. I'll just be like, huh So I've got my kids, like, okay, what do I have to teach you so that you know how to invest and know how to do all this stuff without me? So that's what I love that. What's one thing that you want to get off your chest? Sally um to tell people to stop getting stuff off their chest and shut up. If you want to get something off your chest, tell your friends at home, and don't tell it on any thing in social media yourself. Shut up, shut up, shut up, just shut up. I love it. I was going to I think this has been my favorite about the Wait wait, I'm gonna I'm gonna add to what Sally just said. What I want to get off my chest is for people to mind a good down and shut up right, mind your business and shut up. Okay, what's the bottle that you live by? CenTra? Mind your business? Period? Done that. I mean that for people, and I even mean that for myself because you know, sometimes you'll see some ship happening and it's like, mind your business. Yeah, you ain't got nothing to do with that. Ain't got nothing to do. Mind your business, and I think that that's my that's my model, mind your business. I menna get her. I'm gonna give her two more because I know this is her too. Be earlier all the time and work harder than everyone else. There are a lot of people. I'm sure they could be more talented than me, but they ain't gonna work as hard as me. So there you go, and guess what Now, I got one more. Okay, it ain't about your business and shut up. Yeah, there you getting off with y'all. I'm getting off with'all day. Tell people where they can find you on social media, Sally, Um, it's uh. Instagram is at Sally rich Witt and I think on Twitter it's just Sally richardson center. Where can we find you on social media? You can find me at Cidra Smith Official on Instagram, and so that's at Sidra Smith Official on Instagram. Man, I love you, guys, I swear to you. This has been my favorite conversation. And here are my takeaways from Sally. Be ready so you don't have to get ready because you never know when that opportunity is going to present itself. From Sidra. There's so many opportunities for careers behind the camera. You do not have to be in front of the camera to have a successful career in entertainment. Do your research, there's something out there for you and join this episode of Positively Gam. Then subscribe to the positively gam series to catch up on all of season two. And that's our show for today. You can follow me online at Gammy Norris. Also help us out by leaving a five star review on Apple Podcast and by hitting the follow button on I Heart Radio. Stay grateful, y'all. I had fun. I hope you did too. Positively Gam is produced by red Table Talk Podcast and I Heart Radio. Executive producers are Adrian Banfield, Naris Balin, Jethro and Jada Pinkett Smith. Our audio engineer is Calvin Baylett, and our associate producer is Irene Bischoff. Burger our theme song is produced by d Beats.