Music legend Teddy Riley’s Instagram post revealing he has not seen his son in three years was seen by millions. Now for the first time, he’s at the Table sharing the heartbreaking ordeal that he and more than 22 million other families are experiencing. Also, meet the daughter who was put in the middle of her parents’ war and hear from her parents who put her there. For ten years, she didn’t speak to her father, then cut ties with her mother for eight years. Now, they’re all coming together at the Table with an important message.
Hey Fam I'm Jada Pinkett Smith and this is the Red Table Pop podcast. All your favorite episodes from the facebook watch show in audio produced by Westbrook audio and I heart radio. Please don't forget to rate and review on Apple podcasts. There's a silent epidemic destroying families. It's called Parental Alien Nation, when a parent viciously turns their child against the other parents. Over twenty two million families are going through it, including ours. This is really personal to us. I'm any race. You're an a race cousin. For the first time, legendary music producer Teddy Riley reveals why he hasn't seen his son in three years. What's going on with your son now? She didn't speak to her father for nearly a decade. There was always he's not good for you, he's selfish, he abandoned you. Now they're at the table. She sent a message that said you're nothing to me, don't ever reach out to me together. What made you give away your par a? All Right, kids, we actually have your ex wife who has agreed to join our conversation. I need to start out with a kid, a wake up call for parents everywhere. Learn from our mistakes. Here we are. We go back at the table. Yes, I'm chipping around in these. I'm just making sure you are right. This is gonna be a really interesting table today. Yeah, there's a silent epidemic gripping families apart. It's called parental alienation, when a parent viciously turns their child against the other parent. Whether you are familiar with the term or not, chances are you or someone you know is going through it. I know so many people that are going through it right now and it is terrible. We've had to deal with it in a family and this person and made a decision that she didn't want her child to be a part of our family, and it was. It was devastating and we don't even know why. We don't even know what happened. I think what people don't realize is that when you make the decision to alienate one of the parents, typically you're going to alienate the whole family. I'm an erased aunt, you're an erased cousin, there's erased grandparents, but the whole family suffers, including the child, because now the child doesn't know that for a family. You know, I just had an intense therapy session and I called you last weekend and I was like, why did you let me? Still I have a relation with my father, considering like he was not well, you know what I mean? He never paid a day a child support. Really, in this circumstance, he didn't have anything. There wasn't anything for him to give. So what are you going to go to court and battle for? The unwellness was an addiction and I just also figured like at some point in time, if he got himself together, it should be Jada's decision what relationship she had with her father. I didn't want to bog her down with all of our nonsense. So I give you prop scam because it's hard. It's hard not to. I feel like if I had experienced some of the stuff that you experienced with my mom's dad, I would be thinking, is it best for the kid to be around a person who would do this? But Jada's dad was not a bad guy. He was bad with me, you know we we were bad with each other, but he was not a bad person. Right, yeah, that's a good differentiation. I was never concerned about her safety with him. Kinda was like questionings sometimes. All of course, was I watching rated our movies at six. Sure is not life threatening and you didn't get hurt. Yeah. So legendary music producer Teddy Riley went public with a very personal, heartbreaking situation. This is the first time he is speaking out. Two time grammy winner, Teddy Riley is a powerhouse of American music. His group Black Street made some of the most iconic hits of the nineties, but his proudest accomplishment is his nine children. Three years ago, his relationship with his youngest son, Michael, took a devastating turn. He recently posted a heartbreaking caption on instagram. This is probably one of the saddest days of my life. It's my baby son's birthday today and I haven't seen him in three years plus. Hey, yes, yes, find to meet you. It's amazing. So can you tell us what's going on with your son Michael? You know, I just did the post on his birthday and then so many people were posting it and I was like wow, yeah, I think because you know Teddy, so many people are dealing with so many people can relate. I can relate to this. I'm just hearing from so many different people and told me that his mom's goal is to keep him away from me and it really hurts, you know, because, Um, here's someone I wanted to marry and I gave everything to. I'm the first to hold my son. We had a home birth and we had this bond that was just so amazing. I mean all my signs, we all have a bond, but Michael was like, wow, how old is Michael Now? He's nine. You know, my father I didn't meet until I was nine, my biological father. I said to myself at I'll never want to be like my dad. I have to change the narrative and be in all my kids lives. Around two thousand five I took off about five years. No music, no nothing, and we moved to Atlanta and we spent the most amazing time together. You and the kids. Yeah, me and my kids. I was single dad. A couple of my kids just came and moved in. You have such a great relationship with your other children. How do you think Michael might be feeling? Because if he doesn't have contact with you, does he have contact with his other brother's? She doesn't want him part of any of our lives. When I talked to a friend of hers and she says you really need to try and see your son, because his mom is not really handling him right and she's really trying to keep them away from you and you probably need to do something about it. Do you talk to Michael at all? Do you have any contact with him at all? I used to. I bought him an IPAD. It is our communication. We were playing, you know, the IPHONE Games, and that all stopped. The last picture I've seen Michael, I didn't know he started wearing glasses. So is his mom not allowing him to communicate with you? was there a court order? Like, we have a CO parenting contract and I lived to that contract. So what is the contract? Break that down for that way. Break down the contract for us. Well, it's one sided because in the contract I let her have the physical custody. Okay, and I did not read that because I just said you do it, you handle it, because she actually worked for accountant. She knew everything. Not, it's a CO parenting contract where I paid this much and I'll share your statements that much. And then she said once he gets in first grade, in the contract it goes down. Half got it. So you two came up palm this agreement without getting the court and involved when he went down half she went to court. She wanted to get past the contract and just went straight for the gust, though. So this is about child support. So she doesn't want you to see Michael Because of a child support discrepancy. So you basically saying I'm not gonna be bullied. Right. You're basically saying I'm not going to be manipulated. Right. It will be kind of hard for people to hear that you're not paying child support. Right, and all my children I have a trust, that trust. He's straight. Right, and when he comes on this side, try just like them. Good. But as long as she is doing what she's doing, my trustees are not doing anything. I don't like conflict. Let's work it out. I don't like arguing. That's been my walk all my life because I've seen so much with my mother and my father fighting. That was like. I'll never be like that to any woman. So, Teddy, let me ask you, if you just went down her path paid the child support, do you think you would be able to see him? No, she would still do the same thing. One thing I don't want to do is bash her. It's going to be a point where I'm going to see him, because you know I will spend my everything to see my son. So right now you're just trying to figure out how to just get your child support negotiation handled. Yeah, I'm trying to custody too. Yeah, I want custody. I'm going for the whole thing. What is your plan to reunite with with Michael? When and how do you see that happening? I'm just being patient for it. That's right. Right, I sent him a few messages and you never got no response. And it's exactly what her ex friend said she was going to do. Anytime, like he used to sneak to text me, send me a picture. Happy Birthday that so do you feel like it's just about money for her all day, all day? If it was about anything else, we would have worked it out at some point. Something got to give. I'm just waiting for that point. Right and at the end of the day it's too such to a story. But how has it been for you? Sometimes, when I'm alone, it's like you get that anxiety, get that whole like feeling, and for me I have to be in the dock. So I took my room, which was all white, and I made it all black. Wow, well, your daughter, Nia and your son, T J wanted to come to the table and support you. Cool, pleasure, pleasure. Thank you so Nia. How does it feel to not be able to see your baby brother? It feels like one of the kids are missing. There's a lot of us and he's the same age as my daughter. I was there when he was born, I was at the House. So they're supposed to be best friends and they don't have that. Yeah, you used to when they were young. It was like, yeah, this is so sad. Not About for you, T J, it's sad because I have kind of like a tight relationship with all my brothers. For him not to be there, it's like somebody's missing. And none of us speak to his mom, and we were even close at one point and I haven't talked turn a very long time. So it's not even just about the fact that you don't get to see your sibling, but that you were once close to his mother. I had a c section, she helped me for that month until she had my brother and then I helped her. So yeah, like we don't speak at all, no communication. And how does that feel? Something's missing. Yeah, once this is done, I feel like I'll be complete. Yeah, no, piece of the plane that's missing. Yeah. So, Nia, what do you want to say to precious Michael? I Miss Him, I love him, we all do. Yeah, so, T J, when was the last time you saw Michael? Three Christmas or Christmas four? About four? I really hope, Teddy, that it will get resolved, because would you agree that Michael's in the middle and he's the only one losing in there? And it's not fear to him. Yeah, it isn't fair. He deserves US both. It does. I really hope that you guys can come together and figure this out for Michael and for both of you, for sure. So, Ashlyn was alienated from her father for over a decade. She says it made her hate half of who she is. Ashlyn's family was featured in the documentary called erasing family. Ashlyn's parents, Jennifer and dizzy, went through a hostile divorce just months before she was born. The relationship was so toxic Jennifer got a restraining order and refused to let dizzey see his children. Dizzy desperately tried to make his case for joint custody. Nothing I said mattered, none of the evidence I brought forward mattered. The judge wouldn't even look at it. My Ex said laning clearly that there was nothing that I could do to get to see my kids as their bitter battle raged on dizzy felt he had no other choice but to give up. My ex wife will go to any stream in her vendetta against me. Therefore, I withdraw my petition and pray the situation will change in the future and I will become a part of my daughter's lives. Ashlyn says her mother turned her against her father. I was informed that basically he was poisoned. To me, wow, ashlyn's parents have agreed to join the table, but they requested not to be in the same room. And let me just first say that I'm sorry that you've had to go through it and that you're still in the mist of it a bit. Thank you. As a kid, what did your Mom Tell You about your dad? That was always he's not good for you. Oh, he's selfish, he abandoned you. Yeah, the first thing I remember I think I was around nine, and she said he didn't pay the child support and I was like, who you know? Your sperm Downer was nine. So I'm like, I don't know what that means. It's like the first introduction to dad was this person isn't reliable. When she would say bad things about him, my first feeling was, oh my God, she's saying bad things about me, like because it's part of me right. So I would internalize all these things. Kids are just internalizing this conflict. It's crazy. He starts to build all these distortions in your head and like your perception starts to warp. You know, Oh, I'm not worthy. So you, as a young girl, really wrapped your self worth into entirely. And even that your father didn't want to have anything to do with you and he abandoned you. I totally relate to that. How else did not knowing your birth father impact your life? I started acting out, I got pretty promiscuous, I got into drugs. I mean, you name it. What you're missing, you're seeking in others. Yeah, exactly. That's how it showed up for me. What is disavoid? I remember my mom sat me down in the bedroom when I was tent and she goes, so your father wants to reach out, and I was over the moon because I was like, Oh my God, I get to find my word after ten years of being shut out of his kids lives, dizzy was shocked when Jennifer reached out. She said, your children want to see you, they want to be in your life. I said, how soon can you come over? God it was such a blessing, but there were strings attached. my Ex said, you know with what they take out of your checks for child sports. I know that you struggle and I would like to help with that. So I have an idea. Jennifer's idea was to have our new husband, Robert, officially adopt Ashlyn and her sibling. Ashlyn was crying. I'm crying and I've got my kid's Stepdad telling me don't worry, I'll make sure she never takes your children away from you again. Believing that promise, dizzy signed his parental rights away in order for the adoption to go through and the minute the papers were signed and the car doors were shut and everybody drove off, that was the last time I saw wow. So when the whole adoption thing went through when I was ten, he was gone. After that, ripped out and I was angry. I had so much resentment, I had guilt for wanting to be with my dad, and then I had anger for having the guilt. You know, it's just like horrible cycle. A couple of years went by and it was just kind of this weird epiphany moment like why don't you just call him? You know, why don't you just try? But I just decided, what are you gonna lose? What's the worst that's gonna Happen? Totally, so I went for it. That's all for you. I feel like that takes so much courage. So Dizzy's gonna come join us at the table. Come on out, dozy. That was hard to listen to. Yeah, I'm sure. Did you think you would ever see them after that? The last contact we had had was she said a message. It said you're not my dad, you don't know who my favorite band is, you don't know what color I like, you don't know the movies I like, you're nothing to me. Don't ever reach out to me. It was a straight up thank you very much for your DNA contribution, but you can just pe. And so when she was fourteen she reached out and so we talked four or five times and then we got to do this like zoom, but it was before zoom. It was some sort of video and we had our hands. Yeah, and she had written. She had written I love you on her hand and she's sitting there like this and she says, Dad, no matter what, I'll see you when I'm eighteen. And the screen paused. Now was it? Wow, Internet got cut off. WHOA? So I didn't hear from her again for a while, a couple of years. Wow, that was a rough moment. I still have the screenshot on my phone. That was the first moment we had seen each other since she was Ashlyn says it was her mother and stepfather who switched off the Internet. In the middle of that conversation with dizzy, I got into a vicious argument and I ended up getting kicked out. She had called me and let me know it. She was homeless groups fourteen and I have no legal right to drive up and pick her up. She's not my child according to the courts. My stepdad and my mom came to pick me up. They told me that if I wanted to continue living in that house and have happy family, but that meant I needed to cut ties with my real dad. Wow. You fast forward four years later when I'm at work and here she comes out, bless her heart, wearing a motley crue shirt, one of my favorite bands, and I just kind of stood there for a minute, tears rolling down my face. I mean ugly crying. My master was down to my channel. Yeah, my heart was so much like it's just crazy, so amazing. We're both ugly crying and everyone starts clapping. It was just like, yeah, it's just so that's awesome. And that was the one picture that got taken. Wow, I'm really curious. What made you sign papers to give away your parental rise, so permanent, so fine. Yeah, yeah, you're looking at your child going, guess what, I'm such a s ob that I don't care anymore, or I don't want to be there for you, I'm going to walk away from you. Yeah, remember that. It was probably a week later that I went and started my kind of downward spiral. Alcohol, women, faceless, nameless people, parties, cities, places I never belonged. Yeah, yeah, been there, done that. Yeah, yeah, it's just so interesting, like we get so locked in our own world of pain. Don't, please, don't. I'm not innocent here, like I I was. I was I was a lousy husband. Listening to you talk about your father, he was not a bad man, but he was bad to me. I was a bad man to my ex wife. I was not a nice guy. Jennifer deserved better. She was a lousy wife. I deserved better, but we both didn't know what we were. We didn't have her own worth at that time. I was nineteen, she was sixteen, Seventeen. We were kids and kids do stupid things and we continue to do them into our adulthood because we had gotten so accustomed to that level of toxicity between us. I was a horrible husband. I had no idea what it was to be a husband. I mean, the first thing you gotta do is stop dating. But I wasn't a bad dad. You've got to love your children more than you hate your action should be on the St honestly, I mean that's true. God, I'm sorry it didn't work out, but we have these life forms that we've made. Let's you know, it's so easy to get lost in the sauce of yourn. You are telling me a girl, one of the hardest things, I think, that we really have to look at in any situation. There's three sides. There's Jennifer's side, there's my side and there's the truth. My side will always make me look to be better. Right, Jennifer's side will always make her look to be better. You want the truth, put those together. Look at us both like we were both idiots, were both screwed up, and that's probably closest to the truth. Exactly, exactly where do you sit now in regards to some of the guilt that you might feel? I have the end of my kids. Stop It. You don't come back from that, you don't come back from the moment you realize that you're the a hole in the situation, that you could have fought harder, you could have stood stronger, right, but you weren't man enough, you weren't secure enough. You're human, right of my dad and it's my job to be a father and I walked away from that. Responsibilities are my guilt. That's mine. That doesn't belong to Jennifer, it doesn't belong to you. That belongs to me, right, and that's that's my way to carry right, and I won't, I won't let it go because it's something I need to be able to recognize. So my guilt is mine. Well, it's beautiful that you have an opportunity now. You know she's sitting here right. You know, how has it been having each other? Weener Schnitzel at eleven thirty and chili cheese dogs down by the river on my motorcycle on a summer's night? That's what it's been, finding things together that make us who we are. She's an extraordinary person. How did it feel to just hear your father say to you that you are an extraordinary person? Oh, mm Hmmm, m M, yeah, mm Hmmm. Do you pick Sep I love you. Yeah, yeah, after reconnecting with her father, Ashlyn cut off almost all contact with her mother for eight years. I can talk to her right now. I don't even know what I would say. Would just be so happy that she's talking to me. Just over eighteen months ago, Ashlyn and her mother reconnected. We actually have Jennifer, your mother, your ex wife, who has agreed to join our conversation. Dizzy, I know you said that you didn't want to. Yeah, I need I thing. Okay, that's that works for us. Hi, Jennifer, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me. We know everyone has their side of the story, and you were just talking about the fact that you're alienated from Your Dad. Then you kind of went and and I go over to live with my dad, and then my dad's got all this hurt and baggage and pain, so he bleeds that onto me because we didn't have boundaries at the time. So then I'm alienated from my mother, you know. So it was a cycle that just kept going. Well, now this is a safe parent. No, wait, this one's a safe parent. It's like when does the Cycle Jennifer? I know these situations are never easy. Before you why wasn't dizzy in your kids lives? Well, we were very, very young. That pretty much just takes up a big part of it. Being young and being immature and not knowing do I want to be a parent today or do I want to kind of hang out with my friends, being way too young to handle, you know, these very big adult things like getting married and having a family. When you look back, would you change anything? There's a whole lot I would change right right, not really having a whole lot of guidance along the way and just flying by the seat of your pants. It doesn't always go very well. We don't always act like, you know, adults, because we're not adults exactly. was there anything that dizzy shared with us? That you might feel differently about. I feel differently about our whole situation. I mean, I think we can both agree that we had no idea the impact that it would take on the children because we were so wrapped up. And he said, she said that you have no idea the impact that later can take over with the children. No thought in my head. I don't think he's either. Were too wrapped up in the immaturity, in the drama. When Ashlyn reconnected with her father, how did that make you feel? I wasn't thrilled because, you know, you just you keep those memories, those angry memories, and you just hold onto him right, assume. Well, you know, surely he couldn't have grown up. You know, how does it make you feel to see your daughter having the ability to have access to you, have the ability to have access to her father, and she's seemingly very happy? I couldn't be happier. I'm so just incredibly proud, because she's the one who brought a whole lot of this together because, I mean, she's way more of an adult than we were at this age. You know what, Jennifer, that's usually how it goes. I could have ever thought to be ever, so I totally understand. Yeah, you know, sometimes it takes our kids to teach us. Yeah, out of the mouth of Babes. Jennifer, do you think there will ever be a time where you might forgive dizzy? I already have. We are so entirely different people than we work back then. I mean, that's been I won't say how many years, but it's been a few right, right, right. I have to say what you're sharing now gives me a lot of hope that there can be healing for other families. I totally agree with Jim. It takes a lot of courage to be able to share the story of your family and that's not easy. I promise you this is gonna help so many people. I just don't want anyone to go through what we went through. Learn from our mistakes. Thank you, Ashlyn. I thank your mother, Jennifer. I thank your father, dizzy. We wish continue healing for you and your family. Absolutely blessings, blessing, blessings for sure. My goodness, how many people are going through this epidemic? Unfortunately, I have so many friends that are going through this exact situation right now and it's really bad. Melissa has not had a relationship with her three children in three years after a difficult divorce. First of all, let me just say I am so sorry that you were going through this. I cannot imagine not seeing my children for three years. Alyssa sat down with Dr Amy Baker, author of surviving parental alienation and one of the world's leading experts on this epidemic. Dr Amy Counsel's alienated parents on how to communicate with their children. Hey, Lissa, hi, tell me a little bit about your kids and sort of what happened. I have three children. There are fourteen, sixteen and eighteen currently. I was married for seventeen years. At the end of my marriage things got um very tumultuous. There were some events that took place that were pretty traumatic um where I was removed from my home immediately. There was a restraining order with my ex husband and so I was not able to have any contact with him or be anywhere near him or be anywhere near my home, and through that process I lost my relationship with my children and I'm trying desperately to work on how to reunite with them. I think the hardest thing for a targeted parent to hear is I don't want to talk to you. Sometimes I feel like I can hear my ex husband his voice in them and and that's really hard for me. Oh yeah, it is helpful to remember that it is coming from the other parents, the kids or the Messenger, but the message is coming from the other parent. The natural thing to do if you're accused of something that's false is to say, what are you talking about? That's ridiculous. I didn't do that. But all of those things are unhelpful because if you tell a child that's not true, you're basically calling your child a liar. But you don't have to apologize and you don't have to argue. There is something else to do. It's called the five steps. Step on, you thank your child. You should feel grateful because if your child's bringing a complaint to you, it means they care enough to share that feeling with you, because the alternative is your child complains about you to the other parent. The second step is to be compassionate, pay attention to what your child is feeling and you reflect it back, like, I can see how mad you are thinking that. I whatever it is. Step three is called empathy. It's where you put yourself in his shoes. If I believed what you believed, I'd be feeling what you're feeling. And then you get to step forward where you get to say your truth. Most of the time the accusation is subjective. You'll listen to me, you know, love me or mean to Daddy, to your fault. The marriage end. And then you say I see that differently, very calmly, and then you end step five with the recap, more gratitude, compassion and empathy. So you would say, I understand that you think x happened and that's why you're so upset, and I'm so grateful you're telling me because now I know where you're coming from and if you can do those five steps, parents tell me it works because the child feels cared about. You know what's stuck out in that for me, Alyssa, when you said that sometimes, when they're sharing with you what they're feeling, what you hear is your husband's voice and it's so hard. I have a friend that's going through the exact same thing that you're going through right now. Sometimes that personal retext spects and say to me, this is my partner, this is not even my freaking kids. Having kids feel like they can disrespect the other parents is really hard. I've seen kids literally curse their parents out. Unfortunately, crazy what would seem like the right thing to do turns out often not to be helpful. The idea that if a child disrespects you you should say how dare you be nasty, rude disrespectful to me? That actually does not work. So there's a lot of this because if your child's being disrespectful, certainly an alienation cases, the child's coming from a place of anger and hurt and if you start by reacting to their bad behavior, you're just saying I don't really carry your coming from. I just don't want you to be rude to me. I encourage my clients to start by saying wow, you must be really upset with me, and then you describe what they're doing in non shaming, non blaming ways. Rather than saying you're being rude, you're being nasty, you say you're talking in a way that doesn't feel good for me, or I don't want to be cursed at, or you're talking very loud and it's hurting my ears, and then you invite the child to tell you what's going on without that behavior. Tell me what's going on in a way that can work for me, and you're role modeling to them, hopefully one day, how to stand up to the alienator. Yeah, Alyssa, what do you love about being a mom? Sorry, I had my kids when it was twenty four and so they were my everything. It's the little things. Take them their breakfast or have that hug. Being able to see the world through them and to experience it with them is everything, and so when that is taken away you feel empty sometimes. I define alienation is where one parent gives the child permission to break the other parent's heart. That's exactly it. That protection order with my husband restricted me from being around my children because they were still living in the home. If he would be where they were, I couldn't be at those events. Dr Amy, does this happen regularly? It happened so often that I tell my clients pack a bag. Haven't ready have cash. I'm not saying drain the bank accounts, that's not proper, but have some money set aside, have a plan and be prepared that it could have them. Wow, it's very easy to get a temporary restraining order. Anybody can show up in court and claim to be a victim. Now many people actually are. I am certainly not saying everybody who asks for restraining orders faking it, but when somebody does, it's very hard for the system to detect a true and a false claim. The system is designed to err on the side of caution to protect people. What that means is pretty much anybody can get a temporary restraining order. The person who is the accused uh perpetrator is not notified. It's called an ex parte motion. You go to the judge without the other person even knowing. They don't have an opportunity to say their side of things. Then in three days there's a hearing. At that point the accused person is notified and they do show up. Hopefully. However, and this is so important for people to understand, attorneys off and tell the person, oh, just sign it, make this the you know, it's not a big deal, no problem, don't fight it, you'll lose anyway. A lot of attorneys aren't really prepared to take that three day hearing and treat it like the most important thing in somebody's life. And then what happens is everybody assumes, well, they wouldn't have signed it if they weren't really guilty. So there's this stain, you know, this cloud that hangs over people. The kids think, well, mom wouldn't have signed it, the judge wouldn't have said this is a restraining order if mom wasn't really guilty. And this happens all the time. is even if the kids aren't on the restraining order. In other words, it's just between the two parties. If the person who supposedly needs to be protected is always with the kids and the other parent isn't allowed to be with the kids, so it's effectively interrupting their ability to have contact with your children, right. I'm really hoping and praying, yeah, that this gets resolved for you and for your children. I feel like every child needs their mom and they're dad, so I'm really hoping that that happens for you. Thank you so much. Listen and Dr Amy. Yeah, you guys. You guys can sit back. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for coming to having your testimony. I'm inviting you all because we're doing baby facing teddy rally versus tour. Oh No, okay, you gotta let us know to join the Red Table, talk family and become a part of the conversation. Follow us at facebook dot com slash red table talk. Thanks for listening to this episode of Red Table Talk Podcast, produced by facebook. Watch westbrook audio and I heart radio.