Hosts Tracy T. Rowe, Cara Pressley, and the Red Table Talk community are diving deep into their upbringings to answer the same question Jada, Gammy, and Willow contemplated: Do I have mother hunger? All around the virtual red table, Tracy, Cara, Marian, and NyTasha share how mother hunger is affecting their friendships, romantic relationships, parenting, sex lives, and so much more. But not everyone at the table agrees on how to move forward or who should accept responsibility.
Stories of sexual abuse are discussed in this episode. If you or a loved one need help, please call the national sexual assault hotline at 800.656.4673 for confidential 24/7 support.
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LET’S RED TABLE THAT is produced by Red Table Talk Podcasts. EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS Jada Pinkett Smith, Fallon Jethroe and Ellen Rakieten. PRODUCER Kyla Carneiro. ASSOCIATE PRODUCER Yolanda Chow. EDITORS AND AUDIO MIXERS Calvin Bailiff and Devin Donaghy. PHOTOGRAPHY Lee Salter Creative Firm. MUSIC from Epidemic Sound. LET’S RED TABLE THAT is in partnership with iHeartRadio.
Before we begin. Stories of sexual abuse are discussed in this episode. If you are loved one need help, please call the National Sexual Salt Hotline at eight hundred six five six hope for six seven three for confidential seven support. Hey y'all, Hey, what's up? And welcome the Let's Red Table that I'm Tracy t Row and I'm Klara Presley. How are you feeling today, Dracy? I am feeling every day amazing. You already know, but I want you to know. One of the things that is going on here in the land of Tracy t Row is backyard action. I'm still on my mission for the back yard money. We need look at some theme music for some like frolican music. What's going on in Jack? Right? So what's going on this week? It's all about the trees. Okay. So we had this like storm come through and it was I just want you to know, we haven't had an ice storm here, like a real ice storm since where the ice is weighing heavy on the limbs and the lines and power outage in the whole nine. So we had that recently and trees were not happy. They were beautiful though, but they were sad because they were like, no, I can't bear the weight of it all and broke so okay trees. Yes, I was sad because you can hear him cracking. The mission for the week is tree trimming and tree cutting. There's so many trees now that just looks sad. And the last thing I want to do is cut a tree. I actually I refused to cut the tree. There's the tree has an asymmetric bob right now, okayis okay? T bos to tree. That's what's happening over here in Tracy Land. I'm determined that we're gonna have some shade because you're not important, it is and sometimes you need a little bit of shade in your life. And in this shady shade, you know what, I'm not that shade. Listen, we are definitely in alignment because I too have been doing some tree trimming and we are now. Yeah, because who knew I'm in the wrong industry I should be cutting down trees. I don't know why this is in my business. Make it your are expensive. I'm just tired. I don't want to plant them, I don't want to dig them up, I don't want to pay for them. I am I just I am stressed. Oh wait a minute, don't be stressed. Trees are expensive. They definitely need to be trimmed. I have been here for fifteen years and I have just allowing them to flourish. And they can flourish no more. Well you know what else was flourishing this episode of mother hunger. Oh my goodness, let me tell you something. License professional counselor Kelly McDaniel shared about mother hunger at The Red Table, and Kelly described mother hunger as an emptiness daughters feel when their mothers have not fulfilled three developmental needs in their childhood. Those three developmental needs are nurturings, protection, and guidance. I didn't even know it was a thing, but it definitely opened my eyes with about you. Oh my goodness, yes, and how was like I have mother hunger. I have it and it was real bad. And the thing that was so interesting to me about it was it gave me the opportunity to give it a name first, and I identified totally with being able to divide it into those three categories and say, now that I know that mother hunger is a thing, what is it? And then it was like go back to my childhood, like rewind absolutely reevaluated different relationships with my mom and how we how we talked, how we interacted, and I realized what I liked, what I didn't like. We'll dive into it, but I definitely talked about some things that I'm doing to break the cycle. First of all, I didn't even know I suffered from it. But then mother hunger comes up. It's like maternal deprivation. I immediately went to audible and adding it to my library. I had to because I wanted to know more. It was dr tip of the iceberg for what she shared, and it let me see if I can put it into words, car to explain like it was. You know how if you imagine that there is some part of you that's been locked down, that you've been keeping it, it's vaulted. Having the opportunity at the table to see someone say mother hunger was like giving me a key, and it literally unlocked a part of me, and it gave me an opportunity to say, Okay, I can let this out. I can identify that this is real, that what I experienced is not an isolated experience. Other people are so hungry. You're not alone, and this has a name and That's the beauty again of the Table. Red Table Talk literally gives you information, Like every single episode, there's something to learn. I love that. Yeah, listen, I was a private school kid. I had a great childhood growing up when I talk about it generally, but when I really tap in, like I put my MoMA through some things, So maybe I thought that I deserved certain treatment, or maybe I just didn't want to put a blame on her, because who wants to talk bad about their mom? So I'm sure will una as we talked today, but I didn't know what to call it. What do you say? Plus I'm still growing and learning and got the nerve to have my own child, so I immediately also thought about what I have given him haven't given him. I asked him right before this episode, Hey, have I as a mom? Just asking is there anything I haven't done or have done? And he was like, no, you're great. OK So you're not listening, but that's fine. Yeah, okay, but I did learn a lot of things. Something Urstleacar Pizarro said on the Red Table Facebook page, which we are so happy to stay engaged because we get and put from everywhere, was that she learned about the shake it off or keep it moving mother and style from her mother, and her mother learned it from her mom. Not the absence of love, but the disconnect from the emotions. Not time to heal, keep the ship afloat. This is something we all saw in this episode, right like it trickles and ripples into so many different things. Yeah, keep it moving, keep it moving. You have to no time to feel. You can't even stop and just tapping to how you're feeling. Are you feeling anything or um. I just applaud them, Gammy and Jada and Willow once again transparent as usually. Appreciate them as usual because they don't have to share a piece of their lives at all. And I really believe that shows like this are changing lives as they connect with the communities and we built with communities. Listen, I think it might be time to hear from our community and about the community. Yes, that's it, it's time to hear from our community on this episode of Less Red Table that our community is absolutely our backbone. So we decided to ask them, how have you seen the ways your mother treated you as a child impact your adult life? And here are some of their answers. Tracy ahead and kick it off. This comes from Isola right More Walker and she says, I've grown from the mother experience I have had. It was not perfect, but it was God's way of perfecting me. Mmm mmmmmm. That is that is deep. That's the realized, full grown womanhood right there. I love that. Teresa smith Hill said, this is such a powerful episode. I see so much of this adult women making struggle decisions because they're emotionally stunned at the age of a young girl hungering for their mother's love in a language that they can comprehend and receive. Wow. And at fifty two, I have only just realized in the past three years that my need to feel protected is because I didn't get that from my mother. A loving woman she was, she simply failed to protect me. Hug child. I could go on, thank you, Teresa, because I think you're not the only woman who feels that way. You're not. Shout out to Teresa smith Hill. That's one of my Memphis sister friends, Red Table Talk sisters, and we are not finished hearing from the community. Nicole Fields says, as a team, I thought my mom was weak for some of the things she put up with However, she always showed up for us no matter what. As an adult, I realized how much strength it took to endure some of the things and still show up for us. I found myself as a parent calling her to say thanks or even apologizing for the things I took for granted. Nicole feels we want to say that we love you and know that you are loved and seen and we are proud of you. And n Colo recently lost her mom's we want to send our condolences on the loss of her mom. But that statement in itself is powerful, and I think this episode is going to have a lot of women just stepping back and saying, how do I feel about my mom? What did I get or didn't I guess it's gonna be interesting, y'all. We're going to take a quick break, but when we get back, we'll be joined by two guests from our Red Table Talk community. And today we are bringing two fellow Red Table Talk community members onto less Red Table that. Mary Washburn is a lifetime resident of Memphis, and for the past two years she was taking care of her mother here in Memphis until her mother passed this January. This episode of Red Table Talk resonated with Mary more than any other because she feels the mother hunger Kelly McDaniel shared. Six months before her mother passed, Marian was able to make peace with the relationship that she did have with her mother, and she just wishes she would have had more time to enjoy the new found peace with her mom. Marian, thank you so much for coming unless Red Table That to share about your journey with your mother. Thank you for having me. Our other guest, Natasha Stevens, is a doula from right here in Richmond, Virginia, which is perfect for this episode. I knew she'd be perfect because Natasha literally gets to be present at the very beginning of a mother and daughter's relationship. Latisha said that watching this episode of Red Table Talk was very emotional for her because the deprivation of nurturance, protection, and guidance is something that she understands all too well. And we are grateful that you're joining us today to show this year about your own mother hunger and how that affects your life and how you parent your children today. So welcome, thank you, thank you for having me. I'm grateful to be here. I know I'm excited and if I can share. She looks she's a doola and she's with child. I'm so excited about this journey. Now that we've introduced our guests, this is the part of the show where we reveal which moments made us pause for wine and listen again. So guests feel free to weigh in. Let's just jump into it because it's what Wait, wait what. One of the first moments is when Gami shared how much she loved cuddling and sleeping with Willow after touch was so absent from her relationship with her mother and her relationship with Jada. Can you remember how you always wanted to cuddle and sleep with us and you let me sleep with you? But that was different for her. That was interesting to me. How did you guys feel about that? I didn't grow up with the I love yous or the giving hugs and things like it's completely awkward. You're doing this because families around then maybe everybody's like hugging and stuff. But I hugged other people, like my relatives, more than my in house family in regards to like my parents when we were growing up. I don't ever remember hugging my brother growing up, and it was just the two of us, but my mom and my dad definitely not. We didn't say I love you, although I felt and feel how you know, like I felt and feel how much I adore my kids. When I first had my boys almost twenty one years ago, I had to consciously tell myself to tell them that I love them. Yes, I didn't grow up with that. I can relate to that, I was telling the girls as we were talking. I was so excited about this episode because watching it made me realize that I got a little mother hunger. Like I was telling it felt like my mom's love and my parents love was like an understood thing. You don't necessarily need to ask for it or look for I love you. I love you because what these lights on you in the house, that's just where we are. So it was like an understood thing. And as I got older, I made a point to tell my son I love him, hug him constantly. And I've revisited with my mom so now we say that and do that more in my adult life than I've ever done with her. But you can feel the act. Does that make sense? That time feel like goodbye Mom. You can feel the whole hug, You can feel the words coming out of both of your mouths, because it is not a constant practice. What's so interesting about that is that Gammy identified that she had such an experience, she was so nurturing and loving and cuddling with Willow, that then she realized how much she missed it with Jail and that it was such a horrible loss for her when she identified that. I wonder if either your mother there's have had any kind of awakening like Gammi did with any of their grandchildren or other family members that they may be closer to. I don't think my mom ever did. The bitter sweet part of her still not being here is that once I started healing, I didn't get an opportunity to really share this new feeling that I have, where maybe it would have resonated with her and helped her maybe reach out more. But I just think because of her growing up in the environment she grew up in and what she was taught, she just never would do it. My brother, who passed in ninety six, he said to me in the early eighties, marrying this is probably all that you and Mom's relationship would ever be. And I like that. It didn't feel good, so I spent the rest of my time with her trying to change it and trying to get her to be something that would make me feel better. I'd say six months before she passed, I realized, Okay, Mary, you've got to find this piece for yourself and not trying to get it from her, and that's when I started my healing with it. I think there are a few things that are like if they just came on this episode, they're like running into each other. We're gonna prove that we can train these babies and these might as well say animals. Is kind of how they were treating us. We're not gonna spoil them, We're not gonna pick them up. And you can't spoil a baby, no, no, no. And I love that brought that up because the real definition of spoil is to leave something on a shelf to rock. So we spoil our babies when we leave them alone too long. I definitely want to hear your perspective as a doula at a mom yourself. How do these we're gonna say, go ahead and say ancient, because that's what we're a hundred years ago. How do these ancient practices impact us today? What is the true meaning of spoil. What should we be doing? What can we change early on? We can spoil our kids, That's what we can do. Love on them. Look at us now, love all these kids, a love one now. It's just ridiculous that she was like wicked spoil spoiler. Yeah, I will forever. They're only children for a little while years. You never get that time back. If someone had just told me that having babies, like having the baby was the shortest thing I would ever experience, because they are definitely adults longer than their babies, I just probably would have had a completely different perspective. I did not realize I'm excited about this baby that I'm having now because when I was pregnant with my twins, I was nineteen. I'm forty now, and I'm telling my kids like you all grew up with me as a nineteen year old struggling in a toxic household with my parents hating being there. So now I'm forty and you got me as a mom, and I did things right and I did things wrong. But this baby is going to get the best of me because I'm in such a different space now. I have experiences I've lived and so spoil. Oh my goodness on the shelf like spoiled. And Okay, so now this is so interesting when guest Rochelle share that she refuses to be away from her children. Her daughter, she had two beautiful girls, so she basically has no social life. Rochelle says she refuses to be away from her kids for more than a few hours, turning down indvice to girls trips, and going to dinner only if she knows she'll be home for bedtime. Did this sound healthy or realistic to y'all, No, not at all, exactly. Bless her heart. You cannot be completely wrapped up in these children only because you are a woman first. You are a human first. There is more than just motherhood. Let me tell y'all. When I saw this, I said, wait, what you are going to lose your whole mind when making grown and leave. You're gonna have an identity crisis. She's gonna fall apart. I can attest to that. Yeah, she's gonna run around singing b MX. I'm about to lose my line up in there because she has literally lost herself and her kids. And the thing that was interesting more over was that the women at the table, we're like, yeah, you know, yeah, that's good. I was like, it's not how missing, Natasha tell us, how can you relate? When I first time my twins, they were sick, they were a premies, they were, and so I didn't want somebody to breathe on them, come seem I didn't want to take them nowhere. My mother hated it because she was so excited about the boys, but I didn't want anybody to be around my kids. And I lost myself and that it's a nineteen year old and the twenty year old and my friends hanging out, they drinking, and they're doing all these things, and I'm saying, no, I can't go to the point where I was only a mother and nothing else. And so I do feel like I lost myself in that, because as my kids got older, it was like, well what do I like? I just feel for Rochelle, her kids are getting older now, and she may be back for another episode of how do you find yourself after your children are grown? All the women in this episode seemed to truly benefit from learning about mother hunger and finally identifying what they've been feeling their whole lives. This was true for me as well. Y'all. I want you to know that I watched this and I was like, oh wait, that's what this is called. It has a term maternal deprivation, mother hunger. I felt relieved, honestly at the end, it was also the shock of I have this. I have mother hunger. I recognized that my mom, she was a provider because of her scheduling. She worked second shift. Kids are on first shift because you go to school. We didn't have the mom wakes up and makes your breakfast and send you off to school with your lunch bag and meet you at the door and goes to your extracurricular activities and all that stuff. I didn't have that. Now did I want for anything? No, I didn't. But because my mom was very much in the mindset of I'm going to make sure the household is taken care of. You have a roof for your head, you close, you have everything that you need, I never felt like there was any room for me to identify that I was lacking anything. How has mother hunger shown up for you? Mother hunger has prevented me from being able to develop relationships because I don't believe or I didn't and I'm still learning to believe when someone cares, you know, because it's like that's awkward. Yeah, like, what do you mean? You like me a little bit and love me a little bit? This is in the relationship, This is female friendship, this is platronic, this is anything. It's like you like me? Yeah, peace, I'm out because you're doing the most. It taught me to not trust people because I don't even trust that my mom loves me and cast for me, even though in her heart I know that she did, she did and she does. I didn't feel liked for me when it comes to relationship friendship into my relationship. If they didn't last, I would go through a little emotional thing, but it wouldn't last long. It would be brief because I'll just move on because I don't expect that kind of love to exists as well. It's gonna come and go. My heart may be broken for a week or two, but now I'm gonna move on to the next because I never believe that it could ever be forever because it's just's not getting it from mom. I'm like, I know if mom won't do it, no one else will. And my mom would always say, never put your trust in anyone and she would tell us that through our lives, she was said, not even me, don't even put your trust in me. It was just where to digest that because she's providing everything, she's protecting me. But then she said, don't even trust me, because mom would let you down. I would tell anyone. The main thing which was hard for me to do is to take responsibility for my experience with my mom. That was kind of uncomfortable. But I've got to take responsibility for this and stop putting so much on her and wanting her to change marry and what can I do so I can feel better? Right my mom? And once I started doing that and realizing that, okay, hey she has a story too. I may not know all of it, she has a story too, and I'm gonna give my mom a break and get up off of her and to love her, show compassion, spend quality time with her, hug her even if I didn't feel that she was okay with it. I'm gonna do that for me, to change her, just for me so I can feel better because we don't know what our parents went through. To your point, I really just don't know. One thing I heard in the episode, and that we're definitely about to tap into is along those lines. They talked in the episode about who's the celestial mom, right, the mom, like the ideal mom in your head that you created. I think it's important that we come up with who our celestial mother is. The mother we create, is the mother that adores us, one of us who we had, and you know, you actually think of a woman that you know, you're like, oh, yeah, I wish my mom were like that. You create that mother and that's who you cry to the times. You are probably like one of the first of that TV generation as well. We just had that ideal. But because we are at this virtual red table and we are all women of color, I feel like this is deeper than just the mom on TV or the ideal mom. I think there's an idea among parents, and I know we've seen it in this black community. If I had to struggle, you had to struggle. I like to call it left over slave stuff. Tell me what you mean by leftover slave stuff? Left over slave stuff. Not only did we not see the example, we were doing that what's his name, Dr Watson, We were doing that before it was a Dr Watch. What do you mean because of the history of African Americans nurtural who it's time for you to go ahead, and when you start walking, I guess you're going on into the field or whatever you're doing. What I mean is we didn't have the energy to love on because we were constantly in this survival type pattern. This is actually my own term. I just feel like it's generation after generation Black parents have overcompensated in the area of providing. They don't have time to nurture you. They are insurvived, gotta go to work. You don't even want to ask for a hug because they gotta run out the door and go to work. And on top of that, for me, whatever I felt about it, number one, if they didn't acknowledge it, it it probably wasn't validated anyway. I heard this in the episode as well. If I felt a certain kind of way about my mom, I really didn't look at her. I looked at myself, like what did I do? So, how do we talk about these issues without feeling like we're just disparaging our mom's who we knew. They each grew up with their own baggage. This is one of the one times I can say that I have an absolute polar opposite opinion about what car just said. So I have an opposite of pain to Okay, Okay, I'd love to hear listening to what miss Nanyane was saying. My pain is different because I was a kid, and so I feel like, as a kid, what do you mean? What did I do? Thinking about my own kids in a relationship, there is nothing that my kids could do that would make me blame them for something that I'm doing, you know what I mean. So I don't feel like I could have did anything any different to make her treat me or make me feel like she was treating me any better. I'm your kid. I'm a kid. If I go to school or anywhere in general, and someone mistreats me as a kid like I am a kid, I am learning, I am trying, I'm testing the boundaries, I'm doing these things. But does that mean that it's okay to make me feel unwanted or I loved? I feel like I'm one of the first parents in my family, in or generation who wants to listen to their children, consider their perspective, not just do as I'm told, Not just do it because I said, like it's the first time I'm like, let me hear your feelings. I'm truly remembering how I felt as a child trying to guide and change that narrative. I just feel like my mom didn't have time for it. I think you said earlier this episode literally is a ripple effect, and it's just a really web. It's woven into the fabric of so many other things. Part of my healing was something that I had to realize in NI don't know me when I slid red table talking. She did nurture me while I was in her room, and that's helping me help. She just didn't know how to do it once I was born. Okay, I will say that I've one hundred percent believe that unlike the comment about I had to struggle, you had to struggle. I don't think that mother's intentionally do that to their daughters. What I think happens is, and I can say this in my case, that my mother was adamant that we were gonna have better and live a better life than she did, and her focus was on that so much so that she tried to expose us to all kinds of things that she had never even dreamed of. And that drive for better, I think was a fuel or one of the fuels that led to the mother hunger for me. I think that all mothers fundamentally want better for their children. I think that in that statement you just said, the mother who wants their child to have better, the execution of what that looks like looks different, and their perspective has to be an alignment. The person who says I'm not gonna give my child a fruit snack because I don't want them to gain weight doesn't mean that they don't want the best for their life. They're using the path they think that makes sense, versus someone who says, I'm gonna give my child the fruit snack so they don't eat later. The action of what it looks like to get to a better life is the part that's the disconnect. I feel like every mother's execution is different. Every time I see someone get locked up and they're just on the news, no matter who they are, the first thing I think is no mother prayed for that. Nobody wanted that to be the end goal. Every mom wants this child to be something. Whatever they're amazing is going to be. But the path of what that looks like for some people I know, looks different, and you think about it. We all have identified that this episode apparently resonated because we are in the thick of it. Okay, but who look even board? Who did you look towards for dirt reance and for safety and for guidance since you were liking it from your mom. So my grandmother, my father's mother, past spent years and years, and I don't know. I don't know if I intentionally looked for her for guidance. She just was it for me. We've went over there for Sunday dinner. She was the grandmother that if we were going on vacation, she not only slipped me money, she slipped my parents money. I never went in and left there or anything or saw them at all without hugging and kissing. On my dad's parents, I always felt wanted. I have a friend that says it now. She's like, I love how you always tell your kids that you love them over and over again, because I don't ever want them to forget it. When I was growing up and I was walking the room, they wanted me there. And that's the feeling that I feel like you should have as a kid. When my kids walking the room, I don't care if my kids walked past me ten times a day and tell me they love me, and I'm gonna keep want saying it back. And I want you to know when you walk into wom if I just saw you come out the bathroom going to bathroom three minutes ago, that I want you to be in this room with me. I want you. I love you. And I got that from my grandparents. I got that from my grandmother. You're always walcome. When I was sick, I go over there. We would ride the bus Tar Hammers downtown and we would hold on Natasha, what is tall Hammers? Stop it. I don't know what that is? What is tar Hammers? I don't know what that B Street, Miller Roads, the Bridge. She's from Memphis, Okay, hot palpitations. She had a full come apart. I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about. It was a department store, and we would ride the bus because my grandmother never drove in her entire life. Neither of my grandparents. Actually my grandmother never rode. So we will walk down to the bus stop at the end of the block and ride down the tar Hammers on Broad Street. It don't look the same anymore. A department store. Okay, all right, I'm so grateful to hear that you had your grandmother's what did you call your grandmother and your grandfather day with grandma and Papa. Oh, Papa, Papa. Wait, so Grandma Papa loved on you. Yeah, Papa still living. Papa just turned out the seventh last Wednesday. Seven. We loved that longevity. I didn't have the luxury of that. We moved from Memphis to Michigan when I was young, and so all of my family on both sides, my mom and dad side, lived in the South at the time, and so we didn't have the opportunity to have the grandparents or the nurturing that was offered through auntie's and uncle's cousins whatever. So my nurturing came from my sister. I'm so grateful. Shout out to Jackie Rolle Fields. I'm so grateful for her because she identified it. She identified I don't know she knew what the language was of mother hunger, but she identified that we had it. And she was very much a nurtured and still is now. And so I'm grateful that I had that. Mary, What about you, who did you look to for nurturing? My nurturing definitely came from my brothers and my mom told us to love each other, to be there for each other, and that's all we've ever done. And then one lady miss Iola. She was like a mother figure to me because when I will be in her presence, always felt her she was very nurturing. As a matter of fact, my mom even made the statement one time, I don't like how she felt a little uncomfortable but never even met her, but she knew I was always around her, but I felt so safe with her, and it's like the nurturing that I wanted from mom. Missiola did give that to me. She didn't give me money or themes or anything like that, but just time. Yeah. So interesting. We're airing on the side of nurturings, but those three nurturings, protection, and guidance were the top three things that NO identify with mother hunger telling me. Daniel also said in the episode that she advises against people confronting their mother's about the mother hunger. I don't generally encourage going to her mother because sometimes that leads to another disappointment, maybe a fresh rejection, and it's very very risky. I can definitely see a mom saying, maybe that wasn't my experience, and that's not what I meant. You get defensive. I could definitely understand that. I know n you did try to talk to your mother about your childhood. Can you please share maybe what happened is that conversation. Absolutely a part of my growing up was me not feeling like I could do things. So I stayed with my parents the majority of my life. I will move out and I will move back in because I didn't feel like I could do it. I felt like that was from being told in their own way, like not believing in me and things like that. This was a recent conversation that we had just at the end of last year, and I got my brother and my mom and my dad together and I was like, I want to have a conversation because I feel like it's important. I need peace, and if this doesn't go in a way where we can with all things, I'm fully prepared to walk away from these three relationships. And my brother got close and I was in twenty nineteen. We didn't have the brothers sister relationship growing up. We just we co existed. I can't relate to that, and so as I went around and I was telling each person these are the things that I feel, and specifically speaking to my mom like I never felt loved and never felt like you really liked me. Everybody around the board started telling me what they did for me. Nobody acknowledged my feelings. So and I didn't talk to my family for months. The sad part not on my end, but the sad part about that was that I was at peace when I left because I felt like I had tried and I felt like I would much rather not have to deal with something that causes me harm or causes me pain and stress and be okay in peace. My family was hurt by me not talking to them when it didn't bother me at all. I was literally at peace with it all. It's it's safe. Just hearing you say that sounds like a month their hunger moments. Okay, we identified that there are moments from our childhood that we can say we know that was a mother hungry moment. But this wasn't from your childhood. This is recent, this is fresh, This is I need you to see me and hear me and just acknowledge, to look me at my face and say, I don't know what you're talking about all right. One of the things that I've recently had to bring myself to say to my son is you're right, and it'll be something simple, because I want him to be heard, especially if it is actually right, Like I'm talking about something that small can impact a bigger situation later on. Yeah, what do you identify as your childhood mother hunger moment? Maryan? I think my entire childhood wow. And that's why I had to really go within, because, like you said, Natasha, you forty. At forty, I was still having those feelings. I moved to North Carolina for some months, but there was something inside of me wanted to get back and be near Mom. I don't care what kind of conflicts we had or disagreement or what I felt I was lacking from her. I never wanted to be far from Mom. I just could never fix it. I knew that I wanted to be near my mom, and thank god I was here with her before she passed, and I cherished that. But I had to fix me that way I could enjoy her and not look for this image I had of her. It helped me so much. Natasha, You've been so open and sharing where you are currently and what you have identified as a recent mother hunger that happened. What is one of the experiences you remember from your childhood that was a mother hunger moment um to go crazy deep? I was raped as a young teenager. Oh my gosh. And it was by someone two people, actually, one of those people who we all knew, a family member's ex boyfriend and someone else. So we were going to hang out, and this was around the time where I am doing what I want to do. I'm gonna go and we're gonna smoke some weed and we're gonna we're just gonna have a good time. And I got right. I don't remember a lot of it, but what I do remember is coming home and being dropped off later than my curfew, and as I came in the door, I couldn't tell my mom what happened because I was late for curfew and I got my butt whooked, so I wasn't able to say that this is what happened to me, Tracy. I want to hug you. I want I wasn't able to say I want to hug you. I want to hug you too. Don't even say I need you right now. I'm overwhelmed because one of the most horrific violations any person could ever experience happened to you, and you needed to be able to say that and feel that you were covered in the most violated, vulnerable state anyone could ever experience. And I'm sorry, that's why I'm so emotional hearing this, because it's just it's hurting. Oh. I just want to be able to let you have the opportunity to be able to say what you need to say in terms of your experience and your story with literally being violated and going home and then being punished and never having the opportunity to say to your mother and father, this is what happened then. I couldn't put it to words, but as an adult, I can say that I was in survival mode, and I grew up in survival mode, which there is another reason why I wanted to have this conversation with my plans, so that I could get from that mode and just live freely. But a lot of resentment, a lot of like dag, like I can't even there's nothing that I can talk to you about that you will believe me, you will trust me, you will acknowledge me, like acknowledgement is really big for me just being able to be authentically me, and it has created going back to what I was saying earlier, it's created a no b as, don't have time. I'm gonna kick you to the curb before you ever get a chance to get that close to me because the people that were close to me I couldn't go to. I don't know how to ask for help or I don't know how to I don't even know how to receive it very good. I'm not good at receiving compliments. I'm not good at receiving help. I'm not good at depending on people like that. Like I just had a baby shower when I did myself. Who does their own baby shower. I'm not good at trusting anybody because I never got a word in. I never got a word in in regards to like I was late for curfew and I got my ass once. Can I say that that's just what happened. And I was an adult when I said something to her about it, But by then it's just I've lived with this and I don't trust. I don't trust these men, and I don't trust these females, and I don't trust people. But because the people that I should have trusted, like my father, should stand up for me, I didn't get that in the house. Nance the protection or the guidance, No guidance, no, none of that. You wouldn't allow yourself to be vulnerable as you move beyond that point, I don't know how to because you had no expectation of it. I don't expect anybody to give me anything in that manner. I don't expect feelings are hard for me because I've always had to suppress feelings and I've always had to be hard when I'm soft on the inside, you know what I mean, like a baby. But it's like I know that I have to be this person because you're not gonna hurt me. You're not gonna get into last fit, you're not gonna get into my energy. So if it even looked like you're violating me, or you're disrespecting me or you're something, I'm out. And that's how it's always been. That's how it was. That's how it was. I can't even imagine how it feels to live of in your skin, because just hearing about your experience, I went from a completely relaxed state to being completely tense and I'm sorry. I'm grateful that you shared that, which is why the red table is so important. Red table gives us the platform to have these kind of conversations, and let's red table that gives us the opportunity to take it another step further, to open us up to have these kind of engaging community exchange. It's just it's hurting. And Natasha, when you brought that up, that was playing in my head about my experience with being molested. And when you brought that up, that's why I dropped my head because recently before my mom passed, I brought it up to her. I shared it with her two other times and it was totally ignored. It was totally ignored. And the last time I brought it up to her, we would watch the TV and it happened on the TV show to a young lady and I was like, that's how my experience was. I went through that to mom and I was molested by this person. What did she say? She didn't say anything. How did you feel in that moment? I didn't feel. I didn't feel people need to hear these stories. I hope everybody listening got senses. Tracy got we need to hear it. Yeah, if your child runs to you, I don't care what they're late for. I need you to listen. How did your night go? What did you do? You just don't know what they may release. Share need to hear from you, right. I just feel angry, and in my mind I'm thinking you had too rapists who you knew who they were, never brought to justice because you couldn't speak your truth about your violation. Yeah, let's talk about that for a second, because how did you navigate your future moving forward? Did you feel just numb? Clearly these people may have still been around you family in the setting? Is that when you created that no nonsense effort, I don't need to care no more. Did you just focus on you and go in so just to keep it red? Like sat means nothing? I feel like that's because there's a block, there's a there's an emotional wall. You know that. I acknowledge it, and I don't like it, but it is what it is, you know what I mean? Like I tried to be vulnerable and things like that. I have friends that be like you a dude, And it's not that I'm trying to be like that. I just I don't know how that's the way you survive. Yeah, that's survival. To me, it's survival to not catch feelings. So the one particular person that it was, I knew one of the guys. The other guy was a friend of the guy that I knew, and so if I was sitting beside him today, I wouldn't know who he was. But the guy that I did know, I've seen him maybe three times since then, and every time I had a panic attack that's just like complete like clammy, like sick. I feel like I'm gonna throw up. The first time was that a Jiffy Loube and I had a complete meltdown. And then the second time we've been like a Walmart or maybe even Kmart, and I saw him and I avoided him at all costs and get out of here and leave the basket and let's go, and it just felt it's a violation all over again, because you live in your best life, Like he spoke to me at Jeffrey loup PISA's hand up at me, heart goes out to you. I am so grateful to you, Natasha for being able to feel vulnerable enough with us to share this. And then I just want to say that I see you, I affirm you, and I love you, and I am so grateful to know that you pour into your kids and do all you can to ensure that they know that they are seeing affirmed and loved as well. So thank you so much for sharing that. Thank you, absolutely, Natasha, your story is going to save lives. I don't even think you understand, because someone's gonna hear your story and they're gonna say, my goodness, I am carrying around the same low that I forgot was there you mind your business and Jeffrey Loup and here's this attack. I know exactly what that cloud of feeling feels like, even just personally, to share a quick story, when I was talking to my mom or trying to be in her presence, I remember I would see her call and I would make a certain face. And a girlfriend of mine one day said, why do you do that? Your mom is just the sweetest, and I'm like, you don't even know history, you don't even know the history. But in my own, as Marian said, I went inside. I had to tap into myself. Girl, why did you make that face? Because what am I holding onto that I can possibly let go? At this point, and I had to recreate a narrative for myself. I hold these dope sessions where women come in and learn about self care and things like that. It's called the Mastermind. And I invited my mom and she's a florist, and I was like, Mom, can you teach the women how to make a flower arrangement? And when you make the flower arrangement, you name it after yourself and it teaches you how to take care of yourself. But I did that because I had shunned my mom for so long. I wanted to put her in a space where I could just step back and learn from her, and it it just changed my entire perspective. And that's how I chose to like break that narrative because I don't love my mom, and I am accepting who she is and what her story was and what she could or couldn't give, and just loving her for who she is today. So that allowed me to change that narrative for myself. What are you, ladies as well, doing to continually break the cycle and move this forward for other people who may be experiencing mother hunger or just what you've gone through for me just being on this show. It's totally out of my comfort zone, but thank Tracy so much for inviting. Thank you because it gives me a chance to talk about it and maybe someone can learn from my experience and maybe tamp on to the way I had to deal with in the way I overcame that. As far as day today, I'm learning how I am so much like my mother in a lot of ways. But at the same time, the compassion and the hugs and the kisses on the jaw and the acknowledgement, that's so much of who I am as well, So I just try to spread that and give that to everyone one that I come in contact with. I have for God kids that that I raised. They're grown now and one came by the house today and just hugged me and everything because that's what we needed. So my God kids are great and they're so loving because I taught them to hug and touch each other. So that's the only thing that I can do now. Like I said, I wish I could share more of my mom with the state of mind than I in now, but that that's what I'm doing. I started taking care of myself the way that I am breaking the cycle of mother hunger, and my family is showing up. That was one of the things that I really wanted, that I yearned for, was to be able to see the look out at all the different things because I wasn't on for achiever and I think that was part of wanting to be seen and to be acknowledged. So I show up for all my nieces and nephews. I support them. I've silently followed them on social media. You know how that goes. But I want to be there and I try to be engaged and really listen and want them to understand how important they are, and all the people that are in my life that I love, in my family, how important they are, my stepson and my daughter in law, my grandkids. To be there for them and let them know that they matter, because that's one of the most important things. What I want is for the people that came into contact with me to know that they didn't want some part of me that they missed. I want them to feel completely filled up, right on full, come on overflow. What about you, Natasha, And I mnna ask you personally and professionally because it's the dula role for me, just knowing what you've gone through so I acknowledge very much that my mother has experienced some things in her own personal life, growing up and being the oldest of five siblings and six siblings, and so I understand some of the things that she has experienced and how it may have impacted how she treated me and the way that she mothered me. That being said, I also don't think that it's an excuse to do the things that have been done. And so I have had to apologize to my twins for things that I might have said, or me losing my mind or losing it for stuff that didn't have anything to do with them, just me being upset and not being able to control my own emotions and my own feelings and expecting something out of them as kids that I should not have expected out of them as kids grows. I think that I am breaking the cycle because my kids talk to me about everything. Okay, that's important, that's not important, which is the end of the beautiful thing when we think about where we've been, and that's a beautiful thing. Me and my son we're tripping over gas prices. I was like that. He was like, yeah, look at that moment, right, We have loved I mean absolutely loved having you all on here. There is so much more we can discuss because we have covered a lot and I still have questions. I still want to know more. Like you both were super engaging and I can't tell you how much I appreciate you feeling vulnerable and open and safe with us to share this. But we have to go, Natasha, it was a pleasures my life. Thank you so much for coming to this virtual red table. We're going to take a break now, but when we return, we'll share our top five takeaways from this episode. This is the part of the show where we speed through five thoughts slash takeaways from the episode. Go ahead, car Let's fire a mall, Let's fire am all. Number five, every bit of you that you heal your daughter inherits. Kelly McDaniel said that, and that was super powerful because I feel like in this season me and my mom are even just healing at the same time, like it's it's a linear thing. I think we're growing together. I actually love it. Okay, very good. Number four. Every mother is first a daughter. This is another gym from Kelly McDaniel, and we oftentimes do not acknowledge that with our mothers, that they were little girls and young adults, and that they had hopes and dreams and wishes to love. That than that. Number three, material gifts are not enough to satisfy developmental needs. That is key. Love languages are important. We gotta look past and deeper than that, right right. Number two, it doesn't matter how old you are, mother hunger will always be there. Now, that is a fact. At fifty one, I can tell you my mother hunger is alive and kicking. Thank you for that perspective because I definitely understand. Okay, At number one, I think this is what you were so much talking about, Tracy. Once a pain is given a name, you can finally heal from something you didn't even know was there. So just because we didn't know to call it mother hunger, we all still felt it. We still at hunger. We want to know how you're feeling about this new season a Red Table Talk. We are open to talk about anything with you all, so sent in your questions at less red Table that at red table talk dot com. We heard from Teresa smith Hill this week and she said, can you also speak to the healing that includes forgiveness and the right and responsibility to set boundaries? With your mother without guilt. Just because it is not malicious does not automatically absolve guilt. Go ahead. We appreciate you for sending in that comment first, so thank you, Teresa Smith. But Tracy, how do you feel about that? Teresa Smith Hill, she was hitting home with that one. That is not so please reach out if you want us to address thing on Let's Red Table That. Thank you so much for listening. Make sure you subscribe on I Heart Radio app, and please rate this podcast on Apple Podcast. We want a five. We'll be back next week for another episode of Let's Red Table That Big. Thank you to our executive producers Jana Pinkett Smith, Ellen Rakoton and Foulon Jethro. And thank you to our producer Kyla Kanaru and our associate producer Yolanda Chaw. And finally, thank you to our sound engineers Calvin Bayliss and Devin Donnahy. Thank you, Let's Red Table that. Hey, Let's Red Table that