How The Police Killed Breona Taylor: The Only Witness Speaks Out

Published Oct 20, 2022, 7:00 AM

In this RTT special, the only witness to Breonna Taylor’s death at the hands of police reveals what really happened that tragic night. Her boyfriend Kenny Walker takes us through a minute-by-minute account using body camera footage obtained from police. Breonna’s mother and sister join for their exclusive, first interview together since four officers were federally charged in her death, sharing shocking details about their devastating loss and the cover up that followed. Social justice warrior Tamika D. Mallory and brilliant legal minds Benjamin Crump, CNN’s Laura Coates and Lonita Baker explain what’s next. It’s an important, raw, gripping conversation everyone must see.

Hey, fam I'm Jada Pinkett Smith and this is the Red Table Pop podcast, all your favorite episodes from the Facebook watch show in audio produced by Westbrook Audio and I Heart Radio. Please don't forget to rate and review on Apple Podcasts. Tonight, when you get in bed, turn on the movie and doze off. Imagine this, seven police officers bust down your door with a battering ram and shoot your partner six times, leaving her for dead. Let that sink in say her name. Brianna Taylor. Those closest to Brianna have come together for their first interview. Brianna Taylor's mother to meet her Palmer, her sister Jenia, and her boyfriend Kenny, who was with her the night she was killed. So this is the first time the three of you have done an interview together since that horrific night. I just want to say it is an honor to have you guys here with us, and this is a story that has always been supremely important to our family and I'm just glad you agreed to talk to us. Thanks, thanks for having us. Yeah, before Brianna Taylor became a global rallying cry in the name of justice, she was a dedicated twenty six year old E M T who worked two jobs to save for nursing school. Her friends and family knew her as free and say her infectious smile and big personality could light up a room. She posted about her dream of marrying her boyfriend Kenny and becoming a mom. Do you want to be my baby daddy? Were? Those dreams were tragically and senselessly cut short and the only hours of March has Brianna and Kenny watched a movie in bed, they heard loud banging on their apartment door. Terrified, they had no idea what was happening. Within seconds, Brianna had been shot six times and lied dying in her hallway. Now I want to their emergency. I don't know, always happy to somebody kick in the door inside my girlfriend. After two and a half years of denial and deception by officials, the appalling truth about Brianna's death is finally coming out. The police lied and then tried to cover it up. Wow, you know, it's just it's it's really really hard to sit here and listen to that again. I can't imagine how difficult it is for you guys. M Kenny, you were with Brianna that night that she was killed. Can you take us through that tragic day that they didn't begin so tragic? Neither one of us could have ever imagined it, and then the way it did. It was a normal day. We were out to eat, just enjoying each other's company, just me or we was tired after so we're just gonna go in the house and just chill. That's what makes the situation even more crazy. What place do you feel more safe than in the comfort of your own home, thinking it's been a good day and it's gonna be a good night. I can remember the night still pretty heavily. We began to watch a movie, um, Freedom Writers. But she fell asleep on me, like she did that a lot, so I probably kind of doze off too. There was a banging on the door started both of us. It was late at night. Rihanna and Kenny had no idea that just outside their front door, seven plane clothes police officers were waiting to serve a search warrant one we now know was based on faulty information and lies. The focus of their investigation is Brianna's ex boyfriend, who was arrested earlier that night. Ten miles away. So you know someone's knocking on your door at one o'clock in the morning. That's weird. When I say who is it, at least give some type of brief explanation of what's going on. Brianna says, who is it? Loud, there's no response. There's nothing on in this apartment but the TV, which is down low because we were planning to go to sleep on it anyway. There's no other lights on, there's no other sounds. So just like we can hear someone knock on the door, they should be able to hear her saying who is this a couple of seconds ago. By now we're getting up, trying to put on some clothes and go see who's at the door. There's another bang at the door. She says, who is it? Again? There's still no answer, something like now it's getting even weird. So now I was thinking, as the police's way out of the question. After you've banged on the door twice and not said it's the police. I'm not a criminal or felon. She's not a criminal felon, So we have no reason not to open the door, even if it may have been the police, which we don't have a clue who it is at this time. If he would have told her who you were, she would have opened the door, because she's one of those people. She's never been in trouble in her life. Of course, I grabbed my gun, which is legal. I'm a gun owner and still have a legal gun licensed till this day. Now, at this point, I'm getting mad, is it? Now? I'm saying who is it? Along with her? Still nothing. When we get up to exit the bedroom to see who's at the door, the door burst open. I'm a supposed to stand there and say, oh, who's breaking in? Or am I supposed to do something about it right now? When they burst in the door? What happened? Right after that? I shot my gun. I just feel like, what other choice do I have it? When you have that, you have the right to stand your ground. That being said, once I shoot my gun, any person in that right mind should feel like, whatever you're coming here for, it's not worth it. So that shouldn't make you turn around and go the other way. So never, in my wildest imagination could I have thought that thirty or however many shots would have been coming back right right. The New York Times scoured thousands of legal documents and hundreds of hours of testimony to recreate, almost second by second, what happened the night Grihanna was killed. The voices you're about to hear are Kenny and the three officers who fired their guns that night, Sergeant John Mattingly, Detective Brett Hankerson, and detectives. Cause growth, the light on the bedroom, the TV. I remember seeing a lit up blur or we pulled out what happened in the final minutes of Brianna Taylor's life. A full telling of that story has been impeded because none of the seven police officers who rated her apartment used body cameras, a violation of police policy. When seven officers begin the rate at am, they noticed the lights are off except for the flicker of a TV in a bedroom. The only light is this lamp opposite her door. When we all got in line, knocked on the door, banged on it. The police are supposed to be conducting and knock and announce rate, but that's not what Mattingly says happens. At first. We didn't announce the first couple because our intent was to give her plenty of time to come to the door. Banged on the door, no response, banged on it again, no response. At that point we started announcing ourselves. Whether the police announced themselves clearly enough is a critical issue in this story. I can hear somebody in sad. I can hear her, But after knocking and waiting for her forty seconds, they decided they've given her enough time to respond and rammed the door open. In the last time, has said, let's just hear it. After the third hit, it flew open, and that's when it hit the fan. As we're coming to the door, the door light comes off the hinges like an explosion. Mattingly steps into the doorway and puts himself in what police describe as the fatal funnel, a position vulnerable to gunfire and hard to move from. I could see down the hallway and there's a male and a female sabbath shoulders shoulder. The apartment has lit only by the breezeway light that's coming from behind Mattingly and the faint glare of the TV and Taylor's bedroom. Thinking it's an intruder, Walker Ameslow shoots once and hits Mattingly in the thigh. Mattingly immediately returns fire I got four rounds off, and it was like boom boom, boom, boom boom. Then all of a sudden, there's a whole lot of sharts. Mattingly fires two more rounds when he falls and takes cover. Almost at the same time, Cosgrove moves in and fires, stepping on Mattingly in the pro says, and although he's shooting, he appears to have no idea what's happening. I see blinding, vivid white light and blackness at the same time. I don't hear any gunfire at all ever, and I did not have any hand sensation or any recollection that that I'm firing. He continues shooting blindly until he runs out of ammunition. If you told me I didn't fire again, I mean, I mean, I'd be like, okay, I believe. In response to Walker's shot, Mattingly and Cosgrove together fire four shots into a chair, cupboards, and a stove in the kitchen. Two bullets go into the ceiling and passed through the living room in the apartment above. Three more shots go into the living room wall to the right, and the officers fire thirteen rounds down the hallway, where Taylor and Walker stood. Taylor is shot six times on both sides of her body in the abdomen and chest, her arm, and leg, and twice in her foot. An FBI ballistics report found that both of them shot Taylor, and one of the sixteen rounds Cosgrove fired was the lethal bullet. We both dropped to the ground, but her screaming, thinking they're under attack. Some of the officers flee when they hear a pause and shooting. I can hear the firing as I'm going, as I'm making the corner, but I can see the flashes, the muzzle flashes, but the only ones shooting our police. Even though all the curtains are drawn. Hankinson blindly fires five bullets through the patio windows. My only option was to turn fire, and I did that to the muzzle flashes. He moves and fires five more rounds through the bedroom window of Taylor's sister, who wasn't home. The bullets that go into the living area passover Taylor's sofa and kitchen table and smash her clock, three penetrate the wall and enter her neighbor's apartment. Those bullets also smashed the kitchen table, hit a wall, and shattered the patio doors. At the rear, a pregnant woman, her son, and partner were home. In total, the police fire thirty two bullets, penetrating almost every room and taylor apartment, and three minutes after police came to search her home, a fatally wounded Taylor is lying on the ground. Wow. I just don't understand, Like, nothing about it makes sense to me. What is in need of these many shots? Exactly? Kenny, when you were in there, what did you think was happening? I can't even imagine what you thought was happening. I couldn't either. You had no idea, no idea. So when all those shots were fired, you were there with Brianna. You still don't know what's happened. So they're outside of that, they're shooting outside into the apartment. Absolutely, so they don't come into the apartment. They stay outside and they shoot into the apartment. When I shot my gud, I never saw anybody and I was pitch black. Tamaica. How did you find out what happened? Kenneth called me and says, someone kicked the door in and they shot three And I'm like, what are you talking about? Because I was asleep at the time. I jumped up out of the bed and dropped the phone. I remember I called you after I called my mom first because I don't know what else to do with when Trump and I'm like, I don't know, really what just happened to She's like, called the police. No, I want want to wear their emergency because I don't. I don't go always happy to somebody kick in the door and shot my girlfriend. Okay, how that's your girlfriend? She's twenty six burn you said the share alerting able to talk? See No, she's not breathe. Okay, you said your an apartment number before he Yes, what's the kids? Welcome? You said, see what she's been shot at that? So okay, she learned able to talk to you? M Oh my god, oh god? Can you get her turned over on her back? I don't be a serency where she out. Oh, I'm gonna go n canness? Can you hear me? I just want to say, having to relive this, it's really painful. H But because so much is going on in the world, so many people get desensitized. That's why we want to just tell the story and the way that we're telling it so that people can be reminded how tragic this is and the importance of continuing to fight and talk about this. Yeah, Kenney, then what happened. I called the police, you know, so I'm thinking that here to help, and I'm right here holding pretty as she's bleeding, and I'm still not knowing that it was the police that did this, but I'm now knowing that they're outside. Now I hear them yelling outside, have come out. So I'm like, I guess, you know, I'm a black man, you know, in America. I'm not gonna go out there trying to explain too much or anything. I'm like, the only way for her to possibly even get me up as if I go outside. So either they're gonna shoot and kill me and then they come help her, or they're gonna talk to me and then they'll come help her. Either way, I have to go outside. That's where all the footage, you know, started, after the rage. The scene outside is chaos. Around this time, Taylor's boyfriends Kenneth Walker is being arrested. You've been hit. You're talking. Come on, women here, Lucas, there might be a big inside. Keep walking back works, you're scared, right, walk back, walk back to Walker had calls and neighbors had hurt. His pleas for help. That's what's going on. But at one am, almost twenty minutes after the shooting, the police still don't know. Taylor is critically injured inside. There's somebody in there, dead, girlfrid it's around nice. We have to go in or somebody. What is this about? We're focus a beglar worker people, where's your here? I don't get keep walking where we had in the bad We was scared. As Walker is being led out, Spot gets ready to secure the apartment. What them friend friend looks like Claire getting a messenger from checker polls. Only now half an hour after the raid began, does an e MT finally check Taylor? She's done? Yeah, And later, as two officers stand guard, they take in the scene. They see Taylor's uniform she worked as an emergency room technician in city hospitals. They note the bullet holes, neighbors outside the SWAT officers debriefing what they've seen cameras author this is watching the video and you're trying to get how for Brianna, And there's no compassion for the fact that there's a dying woman and having no passion, no concern they actually stepped over her. Also the fact that you are trying to save your girlfriend. You have no idea what is going on. Nobody is explaining anything to you. These people are treating you like a criminal. Having it pieced together like this, it just gives use so much more reality on what actually occurred. And um, I'm so sorry. I just want to say that because I can't even imagine there's no no amount of sorries that that can't even fix it, you know, But it just goes to show you how important it is to tell the story story because through all of it, we're dealing with that rage, we're dealing with that disappointment. We don't really get to let the loss and what has actually happened to despair settling. Oh yeah, I know about that. I never got to that was of course in jail, Like immediately after one of the people said he was like, oh, were you shot? And you said no, and then he said that's UN's unfortunate. So I'm like, I just why do you feel comfortable enough to even say something like there has to be some sort of objective that everyone's missing, mind you, how they're searching and nobody's hoping her still they nobody even tried toe of the no it's in this video, try to help, and they tell her she's dead, leave her alone. No one of them stepped over her, and it was like, oh, she's gone, and they kind of like chuckled, like you know, it's like a So after that, the police know that she is hurt from that nine one one call, and they paid no attention to Brianna, and then they arrest you. They were actually guys on the scene that I went to school was and stuff that were officers. So when I was in the back of the police car, hear people outside and they're just acting like it's a normal day on the job. They're just shooting jokes. And I see one of the guys that I went to school with, like he wanted to talk to me, but the other guys just kind of like nah, And he really didn't defend me, like right there with him, even though he knows he went to school, he's never seen me in trouble, he's never seen just kind of went along with what they were saying about me right there. But then you know, another one of them that I knew who was on the scene, he kind of sat back. But then you know, he ended up apologizing to me, you know, at a later day, like, man, I didn't know, you know, all this was going on. So he left off the scene then pulled over in a random parking line. Another unmarked police car was up behind the city police car that I'm in. A guy comes down and he's talking to me. I'm in the back, of course, with the handcuffs, and they rolled my window down. Now, his mood and vibe is totally friend than the ones who were just on the scene. He's not yelling at me, he's not threatening me, and saif he's like, hey, how are you doing. I'm like, man, where's Brianna. Is Brianna Okay? He said, we'll talk about that when we're getting her to the station. We just want to let you know there's been a huge misunderstanding and we're going to get to the bottom of this. Is what was said to me. I'm asking, like, where's Brianna was right now? He's like, we'll get to that when we get down here. So they took you to jail, and Brianna, as far as you know, was still in the house. Yeah, I mean, the last time I saw her in the hallway, I mean, once I come out clinging to life at that point, exactly if they would have did their jobs, did what you're supposed to do when someone's entering on a crime scene, just supposed to render them a if they would have shot both of you, I just wonder would they have just been like, well, I guess time to go back to the station, Like I don't under like there's nothing to wonder think of. It is if Kenny wouldn't have left, we probably wouldn't have never known what have that night, because they've never been honest about the situation. Kenny lets off one shot and to return fire with they were determined to not leave a witness. That's a really good point to me. That is a really good point. Determined not to leave a witness. Police took Kenny to the station, where they interrogated him for hours. Of course, now I'm knowing what they're probably accusing me of at this point, so I'm scared, Like they're trying to ask me questions about me or I'm like listen, I'll get to that to me, like whords Brianna is Brianna okay? Like is she alive? And nobody's answering my questions. So I had to find out, like what happened on the news sitting in jail. They didn't say her name or mine, but they said what happened, and they said a woman was killed. That's how I found out. Oh wow, that's how you found out. How I found out? Well, Kenny was being taken to jail to Mika arrived at Brianna's apartment to me, because when you arrived, you weren't allowed and for several hours. When I got there, that's like flooded with police cards. Do All you see is these red and blue lights everywhere, And there's an officer at the end of the road, and I tell them who I am and why I'm there, because Kenney is the one who called to inform me, you know, what had happened. This officer tells me that two ambulances went through there and that I needed to go to the hospital, and so I do. The lady there tells me to hang tight, that they don't see her yet. I'm there for almost two hours, and so then she finally comes back and says, there's not even a record of this person being on the way, And so I jumped up and I ran out of there because I have to go back, like something is wrong. And I pulling down to where the apartment is, there's a bunch of officers just kind of hanging around, laughing and joking around with each other, and and so of course I'm instantly charging through and they're like, you can't go through there. What's going on? And again I tell them who I am and why I'm there, and so they told me to hang tight that a detective would come over and talk to me, which took about forty five minutes to another hour. Yeah. He asked me if I knew anybody who would want to hurt Brianna or Ckinny and and I'm like, absolutely not. And he asked me if Brianna and Kenny have been having any problems. And I said, are you insinuating that Kitty did something to Brianna because he would never do that, And he said no, I'm just trying to figure out what happened here tonight. When did you find out that Brianna had passed? It wasn't until about eleven thirty am. Oh my god, and Angel, we had been out there since one a help. The detective comes back over and says, it won't be much longer that we'll be able to get in there and somebody. This time, I'm pissed, like I'm screaming at him, like, why won't you tell me where Brianna is? I need to know where Briann is. And he just looks at me and says, well, ma'am, she's still in the apartment. And so I I knew what that meant. I knew what it meant. He never said it, but I knew. And I said to him, I need to see her. How do you know it's her, And he said, well, we've identified her through paperwork. So they never took her to the hospital. They never even attempted to help her. What was really crazy is that Brianna was the first and the first responders failed her. They just left her there all those hours. And it wasn't so that hurt on the TV that the police was in a shootout with a known drug dealer and seize Brianna's apartment on the news that I learned that the police had shot her, because they never told me that when I was there, and so to um to leave there and still I know what happened, was saying yeah, and then the detective gave me a card to call, and I immediately started calling because I couldn't understand how I was there for over twelve hours and nobody told you. Yeah, and of course they never called me back ever, WHOA wow. Wow. I just think the disrespect and disregard for life, for for family, Like I think on top of that, they just knew something specifically fishy was going on. They just wanted to go the beginning of the yeah, exactly, and there was like the understood that this was a huge mistake, and then they just went for a cover of That's what it sounds like to me. As hurtful as it is, it's just with the narrative they tried to put out at first, and how they tried to criminalize me and Brianna is even more the reason why I just feel the need to keep speaking. Yeah, Like I think that's why God kept me alive. I just want to know how any of this is justified me as a legal gun owner shoot from inside protecting my home and go to jail immediately for murder of a police officer before anybody even it was it was murder the first time where I went, I want to say like court or something like and then they came back. So that's crazy too. I think the only crime I committed that I was being black right. Kenny's charges were amended to assault and attempted murder of a police officer, a crime that carries a sentence of twenty years in prison. Kenny was locked up in heartbroken, could not even attend Brianna's funeral or any of the memorial services. It took a full year for judge to permanently dismiss all charges. To this day, Kenny is the only person to have served jail time in this case. Kenny was the only one who went to jail. The injustices are just infuriating. Jenia, you live with your your big sister, Brianna. Where were you that night? I wasn't caliph for you tell us about your big sister. There's really no way to describe her because she just was her. Yea, she was like a second mom. She was definitely trying to tell you what she was. She thought she were six years of six months apart, right right? Can I just ask you guys, what kind of healing process have you had through this? I don't think I've ever gotten a chance to grieve. Um, it turned into this huge ordeal for simply trying to figure out what happens. It's like we're the only people in the world saying that they didn't rb it. I'm sorry, it's okay, and you're fighting the whole world. Yeah, and nobody listening. Yeah, so you can't let go, you can't grieve right, because this is a lot. I just thank God for them because they still love me. They know how much I loved her, So they're really the only reason I'm even you know, okay here today. I don't know if I've ever said this before publicly, but before all this, I would have never thought I would go see like a therapist, and then, on top of as a black man whis kind of naturally taught that that's not like yeah, so, but I mean, I'm beyond that now because I ran out of options, yes, and I know what else to do. Is hurting all day every day, and I'm saying I cried a lot. I still cried to this day, but I definitely had to start seeing therapists. So now just trying to deal with the loss of Brianna, I have to deal with my everyday mental struggles everywhere, Like I don't feel real comfortable. I just moved in a place by myself for the first time, and my gun is definitely right there. Definitely paranoid, nobody knows where I live, that PTSD exactly like real, fearful of a lot of things. As much as it hurts, I have to keep pushing and as much strength as they give me. Some days I'm just like like, I just can't do this, you know, but I know that I have to do this. Yeah, Like it's hard, it is, But I'm really happy that you found someone you can talk to, because this right here has been a devastating experience. Have you ever gone back to the apartment all the time? I go over there, just really like, does it make you feel closer to her? And it just gives a sense of relief. Sometimes it's still like being the same Yeah, the last space you were with her. Yeah, they never think about like that. I might have to go over there with you, right and to meet that. I feel like you've gotten caught up in the fight and that has been your saving grace. But also I'm wondering if it's keeping the focus off of your own healing because you've been so busy with the fight for justice for her. Absolutely. Of course, people keep telling me that I need to, you know, seek counseling, but I don't have the time. Like people are still dying and being killed by the police. You would think between George and Brianna and am like that these officers would not want to move cricket. But every day there's still more happening. And I remember needing people to stand up for me and and needing people to save Briana's name. So now I'm this person to go and stand up for other people. And yeah, and that is part of the hills, is it becomes too much because they're there's still people who have the nurse to say she got what she deserved and you know, you hang out with drug dealers, this is what happens, or Kenny got her killed. Even after the FBI, the d J everybody are telling you are the things that went wrong in this process, and people will still blame her for what happened. It becomes so much You've been labeled a drug dealer and a thug all kinds of simple research and the simple research and because to clearly say, I don't know how many time I have to tell people they were not there for Kenny, what are you even talking about? What story are you watching? My name wasn't even on the stake right right right when I'm gonna call it. I just tried to protect myself and Brianna, and I was legal while doing it, exactly. That's the part. You're legal while doing it. I didn't cross their lines with bunch of illegal guns to just harm a bunch of random people. I didn't like us, you know. I was in the house with your girlfriend. Somebody knocked on the door three times and didn't say who they were, and then the door got busted down. You were protecting yours, So we got a very good friends back. Mallorie social justice warrior, is the reason so many of us even know Brianna Taylor's name. She has been a relentless voice for Brianna and this beautiful family. Absolutely was up to maka hey family. It's too many people I love in one room anybody to make it. First of all, I just want to give you your flowers right here and now, because you from day one, Yes, we're on top of this. You've been boots on the ground. Because of you, our family got involved. I thank you all so much because you all supported us and believed in us, Jada and your family, everybody with lovers. Then we were in the living room talking to like, this is what we're gonna do. We're going We're going to Louisville. What we're mad It's justice for our sister. That's all today, for calam we do another to make up. We wanted to come here, show our love and amplify your boys, amplified the life of your daughter. Yeah, thank you all so much for having me on um. I feel really emotional just trying to be part of this conversation. I've been fighting for male victims of police brutality my whole life. Brianna Taylor was the first woman that from start to finish, I was engaged in with Until Freedom, my organization that I'm co founder with three other really incredible individuals, and we said, you can't just kill this black woman and get away with it. You had a speech that went viral that I really think got culture moving. This is not a good cop versus bad cops situation. This is a mad rb being shot down by white men on the streets of Georgia. Brianna Taylor being killed in her home, and so we are in a state of emergency. Black people are dying in a state of emergency. Enough is enough, and there's an easy way to stop it. Arrest the cops. Charge the cops. Charge all the cocks, not just some of them. Charge them in every city across America where our people are being murdered. That's the bottom line. Charge the cops, do your job, doing what you say. This country is supposed to be about the land of the free for all. It has not been free for black people. And we are tired. There you go, that's when I first saw that, That's what I'm saying. It was that passion that really put fire under a lot of us. Absolutely, here we are again, yeah, here we are wanting the cops to be charged. And they've been charged, but not for killing Brianna, which is so infuriating to me. It's now exactly five months since Louisville police used a no knock warrant to busting Brianna Taylor's department and then kill her, Yet there are no arrests or charges. When the world found out about Brianna Taylor, millions were outraged that the police involved had not been charged. Hundreds showed up at the home of Kentucky Attorney General Daniel Cameron, demanding justice. Seven were arrested, including Tamica Mallory. This is Tamika Mallory being arrested for no reason. We have fallen out from the grand jury decision in Louisville, Kentucky, no police officers charged, and the shooting depth of Brianna Taylor. That decision sparked more massive protests around the world. Our investigations showed Mattingly and Cosgrove were justified in the return of deadly fire after having been fired upon by Kenneth Walker. Members of the grand jury accused Cameron of protecting the officers from homicide charges and lying about it. They called for his impeachment. Re Jurors complained that they were limited in what crimes they could consider. All seven officers who were at the scene. John Mattingley, Miles Cosgrove, Brett Hankerson, Mike Nobles, Michael Campbell, Anthony James Sean Hoover are all three men. Cameron is still in office, but just two months ago new charges were filed. This case involves three additional officers who were not present the night Brihanna was killed earlier today. I spoke with the family of Brianna Taylor this morning. They were informed for the Justice Department has charged for current and former Louisville Metro Police Department officers with federal crimes related to Miss Taylor's death. Those alleged crimes include civil rights offenses, unlawful conspiracies, unconstitutional use of force, and obstruction offenses. Goodlett has already pleaded guilty. Trials are set to begin in early next year. Brianna Taylor should be alive today. I want to make it clear so people understand this wasn't easy. It was hard. It was four months then two years of real struggle. And you know, Jada, you know you got the calls from us for me saying, I just don't even know like what to do. At this point, we were losing our minds because we knew the warrant was a lie. We were treated like criminals by the state of Kentucky, by the city of Louisville. We had surveillance over the homes that we lived in that we rented for the four months that we were living there. At times we would wake up in the middle of the night and it would be thirty to forty police cars circling the community where we were living. We had neighbors that didn't want us there. We were being arrested for protests and demonstrations. We had to do all that, all of that to try to get a little bit of justice for one black woman. It's too much, and trying to fight the corruption that's in the city with the police department, you know, like, what's his name, Daniel, Daniel Cameron. Then he's running for governor, Like that's that's insult on top of insult, We're going back to Kentucky for Daniel Cameron. Please, I'm going to watch my mouth as I speak. He had said day, but I'm just telling you that Daniel Cameron, to me, is disgusting to learn that they were only going to indict one officer for the wall, the neighbor's walls, where no one was even harmed on the other side, but still not for Brianna Taylor. The jurors themselves came forward they said, if we had been presented with those charges, we would have indicted. That's what we were looking for, and that's not what they were presented. And that was the whole point of the Grand jury and for Dan Cameron to put forth his name to run for governor because the streets knew about the warrant. The streets knew about all the dirty things that happened that night. So you can't tell me that your office couldn't find out. And if they couldn't, then everyone there is incompetent and the entire office needs to be shut down. So you definitely don't need to go run for governor because you can't even find information that Pokey has on the street. Right now, You go outside and ask Pookey and he will tell you about the warrant being a lie. So how you're gonna be the governor and run the entire state of Kentucky. Since we're all in the legal we're gonna we're gonna brace Sinon's brilliant senior legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, Laura Coates. Hey, I'm so happy to see you all, but gosh, for this, it's so hard. I'm so sorry to the family. It is so unbelievable to think that this is where we are. You know, it's funny because the work I do is trying to make sense of things. So much of our history in this country is about making the law confusing. It's about being able to exploit those who are relatively powerless to say, I don't know what this means, I better go ahead and tune out, and therefore I'm no longer powerful. Therefore I no longer have a sense that I can do something about it. Can you possibly explain why they are not able to get a direct charge of the killing of Brianna Taylor. There's a thing called the benefit of the doubt. It makes it very difficult at times for police officers to be charged to the full extent of the law, because there's a Supreme Court case Graham versus Connor that essentially says, look, we are going to allow the actions of a police officer when they use force excessive or otherwise, to be judged not by all of us, but instead of the lens and perspective of other officers. And that sounds a lot like allowing the file to guard the handhouse right. And so this case, love has been you've interpreted to me, might be too difficult to pursue a charge against an officer because the overwhelming amount of history in this country has been to say the benefit of the doubt goes to the person in the uniform, not to the person who has been victimized. Why can't the case be brought back to the grand jury in Kentucky now that all the information has been revealed. I don't know why they have chosen not to do so. They certainly could. It is very routine that sometimes a grand jury decides that they don't want to indict at this time against the prosecutors do bring a new grand jury or bring more information, and they charge that person later. It doesn't have this finite period in time, so legally they could do it. They just have chosen not to so far. But they certainly have the opportunity to bring charges. It is important to break down where we are in the case it's happening now. There is the warrant itself, the application for the warrant. For a warrant to be issued, you have to have an affidavit that says, look, I as a member of law enforcement, here the things that I know to be true. I have this evidence. So Judge allowed me to walk into somebody's home. Allow me to do this because I've got a thing called probable cause that a crime has been committed and I'm likely to find evidence of a crime at the location I'm telling you about, and the judges will issue the search warrants because they believe that because the affidavid, they're being told the truth. Now, what happened here and why the federal government is now charging these officers with a crime is because they have said that they knowingly put false information on that warrant, that they knowingly failed to include certain things that would have led the judge to say, there's no reason or basis for you to have a warrant executed on this person's home. So the allegations are that they lied about things, misled aspects to get that warrant and enter the home. The d o J Is saying, hold on, you're mean to tell me you guys knew that there was no reason to be in this place. No, no, no, a crime has been committed. But the really important part is the cover up or took place afterwards. The fact that this information was false, as the allegations say, or misleading in any way was known to the officers involved in actually drafting that warrant request, and they met and tried to talk about Now the person has died, how are we gonna make it look like we didn't do the wrong thing. So now they have a conspiracy charge. It says they attempted to mislead the investigators and abstruct justice. The most disturbing part of these allegations, I'm talking about people who have sworn to an oath of office, people who have put on a uniform conspiring to cover up when a woman's body was left as if she was not the human being and the daughter, and the sister, and the girlfriend, and the child of God she is. All of this is part of why you'll hear a phrase called the color of law. That these officers are acting under the color of law, meaning they use their badge allegedly to be able to harm someone without consequence. Wow. So that makes the laws of her even that much more infuriating and nonsensical because they had no business there in the first place, and they knew it. We're gonna stay on top of this legal perspective, as we're gonna bring in Brianna's superstar legal team. We have Ben Crump, one of the most powerful civil rights attorneys in the country, and Lonita Baker, the new the elected president of the National Bar Association. Congratulations. Then I'm gonna let you take the table for a second. Well, first of all, I am humble, Jada to be with these brilliant black women at Turning Anita Baker, National Bar President, Attorney Laard Coach, the most brilliant personal CNN. And then to Mika Mallory, who I call co counselor and so gave me asked the question and it gets to the crux of the matter. Why won't they bring a new grand jury to hear the matter about Brianna being killed? And gave me your question is so profound because the status quo in America is to treat black women as if they don't matter, that they're irrelevant. Brianna Taylor has become symbolic for the struggle of justice for black women in America. That's why we have to continue to say Brianna's name and these other black women like Pamela Turner. That video is probably the worst one I've seen since George Floyd a Tianna Jefferson, another black woman in her home shot by the police through the window. And the latest one that to Mika Mallory and Landita and I are working on Brianna Grier and Georgia, a black woman having a mental health crisis who needed a heap in hand. But yet she's in the back seat, handcuffed, and she falls out of the car on the highway, handcuffed and cracker skull in two places, and is in a coma for six days before she dies, leaving her three year old twin daughters in the world. And that's why this Red Table show is so important, because so often we just sweet black women's death under the rug when they are killed by police. Wow, Lenita, when you first met Chenny, was it just as impossible for you to comprehend as it is for us sitting at this table. I knew he was telling the truth. And the one thing I always say about Kenny, his story has been steadfast, like he remembers every detail, and I can imagine like it's burned into his head, just the trauma there. And as the evidence starting to come out, you realize he's here because we needed him to tell the story. Laura was saying earlier that the way the system is structured is meant to be daunting, right, It's meant to seem like too much to handle, and that there's and you meant meant for you to feel powerless. Allow me to briefly respond to that, because I know you all have a big audience, and that's what they always want to say, that is so complicated. Continue to refute that it's only when it's a black person killed do they say it's such a complicated, daunting task. I believe in my heart, have Brianna Taylor been a young white woman, they would have had charges by the local prosecutor and it would not have taken two and a half years. It is not difficult until you say it's a black victim. And then they said, oh, this is gonna be so hard, and I keep saying, no, yeah, this is not a hard case. If it was a white citizen, this would be an open and shut case. Yeah. I go back and forth between whether it's the system that's messed up or it's the people behind the system, and more and more I think it's the people system. If I could just say, we all know that in this country, money makes the world go round. The more value that we know a human life hold, the more it acts as a deterrent for officers to do the wrong thing. Exactly, we have to make sure that it is so expensive to kill a black person unjustly that it no longer is a good business model. And I think the more that cities start paying, they're gonna hold their officers accountab account. It just starts to be something that they can't they can't continue because they can't sustain paying out twelve million dollars twenty seven million dollars. These numbers are unprecedented. The city of Lobo had never paid out twelve million dollars for for anyone. Yeah, in this I never once thought about money, you know. I needed to know these people kept lying about what happened to Brianna and they didn't and so my thought was, somebody needs to pay for what happened to her. And Lonita was like, well, in most of these cases, you'll get money long before you get criminal charges. And I'm like, well, I don't want nothing to do with that. And she's like, I know now how that works. But for me, there was no dollar amount that you could say that was gonna make it okay. And I needed people to understand that. I want us to understand that we are making progress. It is a journey to justice. They're over a hundred cities now that have Brianna Taylor laws in effect, Brianna Taylor, No, not warrant bands. Yes, there were as many of our white brothers and sisters standing with us saying her name, and so we have to continue to believe in our hearts that the enemies of equality would not win this war. Well, Ben, thank you so much, Jada, thank you and your family for having this important conversation because we're standing up and fighting for black people and in this case, for black women, and the only way we get victory, the only way we get justice is we stay together. You using your platform, Jada if Martin Luther King said, we all have a role to play in the struggle for justice and equality. Thank you, Ben, Thank you for all that you do for us, and thank you for uplifting all the strong, intelligent black women around you. Thank you for that, sir, Yes man, you and Kenny Brother we with it. Yeah, thank you for not giving up. Laura, thank you so much. Thank you, and Tamka appreciate you. Thank you. Is there anything you guys want to close out with for me? This is the hardest fight I've ever had in my entire life. I'm grateful for everybody who's ever said Brianna's name, who's ever told her story and who's ever wanted to know the truth. I just want to think, you know, the people who did take the time now to actually chase justice. And I want people out there to know that, I mean, I lost everything in this situation, not just only the person I loved more than anybody in this world are lost, you know everything. I'm still just heard trying to put my life back together to be, you know, a normal person. So that's it, and I love briefly Aline. Yeah. Yeah. To join the Red Table Talk family and become a part of the conversation, follow us at facebook dot com slash red table Talk. Thanks for listening to this episode of Red Table Talk podcast, produced by Facebook Watch, Westbrook Audio, and I Heart Radio.

Red Table Talk

Join Jada Pinkett-Smith, her daughter Willow Smith and mother Adrienne Banfield-Norris as they open  
Social links
Follow podcast
Recent clips
Browse 168 clip(s)