Really now, really.

Really now, really.

Really really hello, and welcome to really No Really with Jason, Alexander and Peter Tilden, who want you to know that subscribing to our show would make a perfect holiday gift.

Really really hello, and welcome to really No Really with Jason, Alexander and Peter Tilden, who want you to know that subscribing to our show would make a perfect holiday gift.

Coincidentally enough, this episode is.

Coincidentally enough, this episode is.

All about the holidays and why so many families celebrate with extremely odd and bizarre holiday traditions. Perhaps the most famous bizarre holiday tradition is the celebration of Festivus from the television show Seinfeld, with which I believe Jason has some sort of passing acquaintance. The actual Festivus was created by Seinfeld writer Dan O'Keefe's father, and today Dan speaks about the true origin of the Festivus poll, the annual airing of grievances and the demonstration of feats of strength. He also reveals the many horrors of the real life celebration.

All about the holidays and why so many families celebrate with extremely odd and bizarre holiday traditions. Perhaps the most famous bizarre holiday tradition is the celebration of Festivus from the television show Seinfeld, with which I believe Jason has some sort of passing acquaintance. The actual Festivus was created by Seinfeld writer Dan O'Keefe's father, and today Dan speaks about the true origin of the Festivus poll, the annual airing of grievances and the demonstration of feats of strength. He also reveals the many horrors of the real life celebration.

So happy holidays, and here's Jason than Peter.

So happy holidays, and here's Jason than Peter.

It's hard to believe that the year has passed since our last gathering before.

It's hard to believe that the year has passed since our last gathering before.

The Old Fire plaka Minora whatever anybody else, And this is our annual holiday episode, which is our Festivus episode because of course of Seinfeld, and we got Dan O'Keeffe on Dan if you didn't hear it last year, Dane O'Keefe, his family actually is the family that his.

The Old Fire plaka Minora whatever anybody else, And this is our annual holiday episode, which is our Festivus episode because of course of Seinfeld, and we got Dan O'Keeffe on Dan if you didn't hear it last year, Dane O'Keefe, his family actually is the family that his.

Father created the Festivus holiday, which for Dan was not a happy occasion.

Father created the Festivus holiday, which for Dan was not a happy occasion.

No, and you'll find out why in just a moment.

No, and you'll find out why in just a moment.

And he when Dan was a writer on Seinfeld, he happened to mention it in the writer's room and that was not a thing you do unless you want. He was not initially thrilled that the other writers went, oh, this is a thing, but it is his his true life family celebration was the genesis of our Festivus.

And he when Dan was a writer on Seinfeld, he happened to mention it in the writer's room and that was not a thing you do unless you want. He was not initially thrilled that the other writers went, oh, this is a thing, but it is his his true life family celebration was the genesis of our Festivus.

But not identical to what they're doing and bizarre, more much more bizarre. Yeah, so if they showed that on yeah, I don't think it would be as funny. When was the first twenty years ago? Did the first episode are? I couldn't, but people celebrated people by pauls.

But not identical to what they're doing and bizarre, more much more bizarre. Yeah, so if they showed that on yeah, I don't think it would be as funny. When was the first twenty years ago? Did the first episode are? I couldn't, but people celebrated people by pauls.

I mean we did the show basically from ninety to ninety nine, so it's about halfway through.

I mean we did the show basically from ninety to ninety nine, so it's about halfway through.

So maybe it's amazing how many it's amazing how many years it took off.

So maybe it's amazing how many it's amazing how many years it took off.

Ben and Jerry's made an ice cream for it. I mean it it is, it is huge. It's a it's a celebrated.

Ben and Jerry's made an ice cream for it. I mean it it is, it is huge. It's a it's a celebrated.

And by the way, as I recall, in this episode, we discussed that too, why it became huge, and why people create stuff for their family, whether it's bizarre or not, whether the foods they eat or things they choose a holiday time, it actually creates the culture of that family.

And by the way, as I recall, in this episode, we discussed that too, why it became huge, and why people create stuff for their family, whether it's bizarre or not, whether the foods they eat or things they choose a holiday time, it actually creates the culture of that family.

Well, we for instance, in the Alexander family, we have Thanksgiving and then the next day it's called the Turkey Games, where we invite my daughter in law's family over since they're in town anyway, and we have like a little Olympics of silly things, and there's a there's little statues that you win for the events, and then we eat all the left effisodes.

Well, we for instance, in the Alexander family, we have Thanksgiving and then the next day it's called the Turkey Games, where we invite my daughter in law's family over since they're in town anyway, and we have like a little Olympics of silly things, and there's a there's little statues that you win for the events, and then we eat all the left effisodes.

But and that becomes your family culture. I mean, it's more than just stilly in things. It's about getting together and doing it. Remember when we are creating all that kinds of stuff. So a lot of families are bizarre family cultures. A lot of families have chosen not to do the Christmas or Hanka thing or Kwanza because they like Festivus. So let's get into it. And then we've got an additional bonus, a little surprise at the very end. Something brand every year, we're going to tack on something new and important, and we've got a very huge talent at the end of this episode who has done a song for us. So you I think you want to go to hang around for this, but right now, in.

But and that becomes your family culture. I mean, it's more than just stilly in things. It's about getting together and doing it. Remember when we are creating all that kinds of stuff. So a lot of families are bizarre family cultures. A lot of families have chosen not to do the Christmas or Hanka thing or Kwanza because they like Festivus. So let's get into it. And then we've got an additional bonus, a little surprise at the very end. Something brand every year, we're going to tack on something new and important, and we've got a very huge talent at the end of this episode who has done a song for us. So you I think you want to go to hang around for this, but right now, in.

The meantime, let's look back and remember with Dan O'Keefe our festival, the origins of festivalus go. It's holiday time and as you know, I am associated with a particular holiday. But what's interesting and are really that kicks it off is you. You shared with me that your research has shown that over twenty percent of people, over twenty percent of people say that their families have bizarre.

The meantime, let's look back and remember with Dan O'Keefe our festival, the origins of festivalus go. It's holiday time and as you know, I am associated with a particular holiday. But what's interesting and are really that kicks it off is you. You shared with me that your research has shown that over twenty percent of people, over twenty percent of people say that their families have bizarre.

Bizarre, unique holiday traditions, traditions, right, So.

Bizarre, unique holiday traditions, traditions, right, So.

That led us to of course the most holiday, that is the most famous and the most bizarre, is made famous on my former show Seinfeld is Christmas.

That led us to of course the most holiday, that is the most famous and the most bizarre, is made famous on my former show Seinfeld is Christmas.

There's Honka.

There's Honka.

That's Festive Us, the festival for the rest of Us, which was an actual holiday created by the father of the man who authored the episode, and that man is, of course, mister Dan O'Keefe's here with us today. Dan's a producer and a writer known for a variety of things Beavis and butt Head, Space Force, Veep, Silicon Valley Drew Carrie Show, and of course, most notably our Festivus episode on Seinfeld and I am so delighted, even though well I haven't seen a talk do in probably twenty years.

That's Festive Us, the festival for the rest of Us, which was an actual holiday created by the father of the man who authored the episode, and that man is, of course, mister Dan O'Keefe's here with us today. Dan's a producer and a writer known for a variety of things Beavis and butt Head, Space Force, Veep, Silicon Valley Drew Carrie Show, and of course, most notably our Festivus episode on Seinfeld and I am so delighted, even though well I haven't seen a talk do in probably twenty years.

Dan, welcome to the show, sir.

Dan, welcome to the show, sir.

Thank you, Jason. I'm flattered to me invited on And to be fair, that was kind of close to the festivus of it.

Thank you, Jason. I'm flattered to me invited on And to be fair, that was kind of close to the festivus of it.

Yeah, people who do not know the argent, we'll find out the argent. I did laugh when I that you were actually invited on different times to people's houses over the holidays who were actually observing a form of festivus and didn't know that it was from your family.

Yeah, people who do not know the argent, we'll find out the argent. I did laugh when I that you were actually invited on different times to people's houses over the holidays who were actually observing a form of festivus and didn't know that it was from your family.

That has happened on a number of occasions. I am so far unanimous in my streak of saying no thank you. I'm sure I hope they had a lovely time, but wow, wow, yeah, that's happened a number of times.

That has happened on a number of occasions. I am so far unanimous in my streak of saying no thank you. I'm sure I hope they had a lovely time, but wow, wow, yeah, that's happened a number of times.

Wow. So the origin is not what people think right the way we laid it out on the show.

Wow. So the origin is not what people think right the way we laid it out on the show.

I guess the origins of those ideas may be from what you and your dad to your family created. But what can you walk us through for people that don't know what your organic Festivus was?

I guess the origins of those ideas may be from what you and your dad to your family created. But what can you walk us through for people that don't know what your organic Festivus was?

My organic Festivus was a living hell on earth that appeared at random throughout the year at an unspecified date. It didn't have It wasn't really December twenty thirty. It was whenever my father felt like it. One year there were none, one year there were two. And it arose out of the fact that my dad was basically a more feral Frank Costanza who spent thirty forty fifty years desperately trying to turn himself into Fraser Crane. He escaped from Jersey the Greenville ward of Jersey City, which at the time was sort of like a you know, a Southey. And he was the first in his family to go to college, and I think one of the first to finish high school, and got rid of his accident at Oxford and just decided to wash the stink of Jersey off himself with excessive amounts of education, including an obsession with the plays of Samuel Beckett who Wow, There's a lot, There's a lot, Wow Wow. Including and on his first date with my mother, he lent her a copy of the play Craps Last Tape. Now, when the play Craps Last Tape, it's an old man listening to you're a song and dance man.

My organic Festivus was a living hell on earth that appeared at random throughout the year at an unspecified date. It didn't have It wasn't really December twenty thirty. It was whenever my father felt like it. One year there were none, one year there were two. And it arose out of the fact that my dad was basically a more feral Frank Costanza who spent thirty forty fifty years desperately trying to turn himself into Fraser Crane. He escaped from Jersey the Greenville ward of Jersey City, which at the time was sort of like a you know, a Southey. And he was the first in his family to go to college, and I think one of the first to finish high school, and got rid of his accident at Oxford and just decided to wash the stink of Jersey off himself with excessive amounts of education, including an obsession with the plays of Samuel Beckett who Wow, There's a lot, There's a lot, Wow Wow. Including and on his first date with my mother, he lent her a copy of the play Craps Last Tape. Now, when the play Craps Last Tape, it's an old man listening to you're a song and dance man.

You're you're talking my language. Go ahead.

You're you're talking my language. Go ahead.

An old man listening to tape recordings of a slightly younger man listening to recordings of a slightly younger man. So the original Festivus was indeed an airing of grievances, but it was an area of grievances in which my brothers and I were made to listen to recordings of my father complaining the year before, while listening to recordings of my father complaining the year before, and so on and so on in a series of Russian nesting dolls. It was occasionally exhilarating. Most often there was There was a tremendous amount of liquor involved. I mean it was just in my Later in my life, my dad lost fifty five pounds by switching to light beer and started wearing suits from the fifties that fit him again. And it was like he dressed like Kramer. He was wearing these like ancient hipster vintage jobs. It was crazy, And it was my father drunkenly complaining into a tape recorder about the corrosive effect of internal reader's digest politics, about how we had disappointed him during the year about how my mother did not keep a clean house, about how his relatives were awful, which was actually kind of you know, not always incorrect. There was a lot of strange music that was played. He played this record containing songs of the Irish Republican Army, but also weird the strange novelty pop records from Germany and Italy from like the forties, fifties, and sixties. They actually there's an Italian version of Alvin and the Chipmunks. That's the most terrifying thing I've ever heard in my life. The Chipmunks and the Irish rebels being hanged by the British, and the strange German accordion stuff and all over that a litany of complaints, and then he would encourage us to complain ourselves, and then when we complained too much, you would complain that we were complaining too much. It was it was a combination of alcoholism and borderline child endangerment that should have had the New York States takes away and raised us in a facility, But at the time, you know, child Protective Services just was not not up this enough in the New York area. So, uh, there you have it.

An old man listening to tape recordings of a slightly younger man listening to recordings of a slightly younger man. So the original Festivus was indeed an airing of grievances, but it was an area of grievances in which my brothers and I were made to listen to recordings of my father complaining the year before, while listening to recordings of my father complaining the year before, and so on and so on in a series of Russian nesting dolls. It was occasionally exhilarating. Most often there was There was a tremendous amount of liquor involved. I mean it was just in my Later in my life, my dad lost fifty five pounds by switching to light beer and started wearing suits from the fifties that fit him again. And it was like he dressed like Kramer. He was wearing these like ancient hipster vintage jobs. It was crazy, And it was my father drunkenly complaining into a tape recorder about the corrosive effect of internal reader's digest politics, about how we had disappointed him during the year about how my mother did not keep a clean house, about how his relatives were awful, which was actually kind of you know, not always incorrect. There was a lot of strange music that was played. He played this record containing songs of the Irish Republican Army, but also weird the strange novelty pop records from Germany and Italy from like the forties, fifties, and sixties. They actually there's an Italian version of Alvin and the Chipmunks. That's the most terrifying thing I've ever heard in my life. The Chipmunks and the Irish rebels being hanged by the British, and the strange German accordion stuff and all over that a litany of complaints, and then he would encourage us to complain ourselves, and then when we complained too much, you would complain that we were complaining too much. It was it was a combination of alcoholism and borderline child endangerment that should have had the New York States takes away and raised us in a facility, But at the time, you know, child Protective Services just was not not up this enough in the New York area. So, uh, there you have it.

So wait, that's your family. You brother would cry, You would cry, I mean it was. It was horrifying. And also had a clock nailed in a bag to the wall rather than a Paul right best of his.

So wait, that's your family. You brother would cry, You would cry, I mean it was. It was horrifying. And also had a clock nailed in a bag to the wall rather than a Paul right best of his.

Poll is a By the way, I should mention I didn't author the entire episode. I wrote it along with Jeff Schaffer and aleck Berg, who arguably wrote some of the better stuff. But the symbol is not a pole. That was a Shaefer joke. The real symbol of the holiday was my father took an ancient rusted alarm clock, put it in like a burlapsed sack, and then nailed it to the wall. And I don't know why he never told you represent He would always say the same thing, that's not for you to know. And I don't know what it means, and I still to this day, and something about the evanescence of time, of life, of youth. I don't know. I know that it was a wedding present that he and my mom got, so maybe it's some think about their marriage. I don't even want to know. But oh there was. By the way, another symbol of Festivus was a sign hand letter that read fascism that my father would tape to the wall. He wouldn't nail that to the wall. But the thing is that sign also came out sometimes at Thanksgiving and sometimes at christ Wow.

Poll is a By the way, I should mention I didn't author the entire episode. I wrote it along with Jeff Schaffer and aleck Berg, who arguably wrote some of the better stuff. But the symbol is not a pole. That was a Shaefer joke. The real symbol of the holiday was my father took an ancient rusted alarm clock, put it in like a burlapsed sack, and then nailed it to the wall. And I don't know why he never told you represent He would always say the same thing, that's not for you to know. And I don't know what it means, and I still to this day, and something about the evanescence of time, of life, of youth. I don't know. I know that it was a wedding present that he and my mom got, so maybe it's some think about their marriage. I don't even want to know. But oh there was. By the way, another symbol of Festivus was a sign hand letter that read fascism that my father would tape to the wall. He wouldn't nail that to the wall. But the thing is that sign also came out sometimes at Thanksgiving and sometimes at christ Wow.

Wow, So I read that you said your dad was an undiagnosed bipolar also at the time.

Wow, So I read that you said your dad was an undiagnosed bipolar also at the time.

Was this at least so was this.

Was this at least so was this.

Was there joy ever? Or was this always the storm that was brewing underneath for your dad?

Was there joy ever? Or was this always the storm that was brewing underneath for your dad?

It was incredibly charismatic and brilliant. Brilliant man. I mean the New York Times compared his book, his thousand page unified field Theory of Anthropology, psychology and sociology. He could compare it to Mark Starwin and Freud in their review, although not only people in Japan read it, but for some reason. But yeah, it was terrifying, but there were it was interspersed with moments of joy. He was very funny. He made it funny while it was happening. But for the most part it was It was mostly like they say, war is mostly boring, with moments of terror, but the occasionally it's fun damn.

It was incredibly charismatic and brilliant. Brilliant man. I mean the New York Times compared his book, his thousand page unified field Theory of Anthropology, psychology and sociology. He could compare it to Mark Starwin and Freud in their review, although not only people in Japan read it, but for some reason. But yeah, it was terrifying, but there were it was interspersed with moments of joy. He was very funny. He made it funny while it was happening. But for the most part it was It was mostly like they say, war is mostly boring, with moments of terror, but the occasionally it's fun damn.

And you didn't want this out there that the story is your brother Mark right still de means accidentally.

And you didn't want this out there that the story is your brother Mark right still de means accidentally.

We came to the realization very young. If you go to school, elementary school and say, hey, we had festivusts this weekend. When when did you have it? People will look at you and say excuse me, and it will you will immediately be put on a more rigorous beating schedule. So we had a bowet of silence that was semi formally taken and I had literally blocked it out of my mind. And then Mark goes and opens his yap at a party that Jeff Jay for, aleck Berg, Dave Mandel, some of the executive producers along with Jerry the final season of the show. A party they were at and they were immediately, excuse me, I want to hear.

We came to the realization very young. If you go to school, elementary school and say, hey, we had festivusts this weekend. When when did you have it? People will look at you and say excuse me, and it will you will immediately be put on a more rigorous beating schedule. So we had a bowet of silence that was semi formally taken and I had literally blocked it out of my mind. And then Mark goes and opens his yap at a party that Jeff Jay for, aleck Berg, Dave Mandel, some of the executive producers along with Jerry the final season of the show. A party they were at and they were immediately, excuse me, I want to hear.

More about this.

More about this.

So then I was lured to a diner called Swingers On on Beverly and they sort of pinned me down in a booth. They sat, you know, around me, so I couldn't get out out, and they said we want to talk about Festivus and I actually hadn't thought about it in years for a reason. I was like, oh, how did you hear about that? I'm really sorry you had to take up those brain cells with that information. And they're like, no, no, we want to put it on the show, and I said, no, you really really don't. You're making a terrible mistake.

So then I was lured to a diner called Swingers On on Beverly and they sort of pinned me down in a booth. They sat, you know, around me, so I couldn't get out out, and they said we want to talk about Festivus and I actually hadn't thought about it in years for a reason. I was like, oh, how did you hear about that? I'm really sorry you had to take up those brain cells with that information. And they're like, no, no, we want to put it on the show, and I said, no, you really really don't. You're making a terrible mistake.

This show is a perfect thing.

This show is a perfect thing.

This is the greatest common the history of television. And you want to essentially smear feces on it. You're mad, You're mad. Jeff Schaffer, Alec Berg, Dave Mandel. But you know, as it turned out, I was dead wrong. Jerry wanted to do it, and they were completely right. Now there was it turns out there was a version that was consumable by a mass audience. I thought that it would lead to not good things.

This is the greatest common the history of television. And you want to essentially smear feces on it. You're mad, You're mad. Jeff Schaffer, Alec Berg, Dave Mandel. But you know, as it turned out, I was dead wrong. Jerry wanted to do it, and they were completely right. Now there was it turns out there was a version that was consumable by a mass audience. I thought that it would lead to not good things.

But and the stuff that was created for the for the television version of Festivus, that was all. That was all sort of a mutual mind mold right, the whole the feats of strength, the airing of grievance is.

But and the stuff that was created for the for the television version of Festivus, that was all. That was all sort of a mutual mind mold right, the whole the feats of strength, the airing of grievance is.

The tereral negativity around it, the Georgia attitude toward it is taken from reality because they doesn't want to talk about it. What runs when his father brings it up. But the specifics of it did change. Now, the airing of grievances was the central tenet of the original. Yes, but and though there was always the implicit threat of violence from my father, there was not actually a wrestling of parental wrestling thing. Nor was there a poll that did come out of the rest the wait ratio with an alec Berg joke. The poll itself was with Schaeffer. I think the the twenty third to get a to get a head start on Christmas. I think that was Dave. People just filled in the blanks to put together a more palatable version of this, you know, remake of the Mosquito Coast that I lived.

The tereral negativity around it, the Georgia attitude toward it is taken from reality because they doesn't want to talk about it. What runs when his father brings it up. But the specifics of it did change. Now, the airing of grievances was the central tenet of the original. Yes, but and though there was always the implicit threat of violence from my father, there was not actually a wrestling of parental wrestling thing. Nor was there a poll that did come out of the rest the wait ratio with an alec Berg joke. The poll itself was with Schaeffer. I think the the twenty third to get a to get a head start on Christmas. I think that was Dave. People just filled in the blanks to put together a more palatable version of this, you know, remake of the Mosquito Coast that I lived.

And do you remember it? So? Do you remember? And we want to get into what it felt like writing in the writer's room for Signfel, etc. But do you remember being there when they shot that episode? What? What? What went through your head? And what you thought emotionally watching this? What was that weak like for you?

And do you remember it? So? Do you remember? And we want to get into what it felt like writing in the writer's room for Signfel, etc. But do you remember being there when they shot that episode? What? What? What went through your head? And what you thought emotionally watching this? What was that weak like for you?

You know, here we are, It was like an out of body experience. And I remember thinking something that I hadn't thought since I left for college, which is my father might actually physically murder me over this and so and I couldn't tell if it was good or not, Like it's one of the things where you're right, And obviously that happens in shows that are not taken partially from your childhood. But in that case, what I was hoping was the following I was hoping that. I was hoping that Festivus would be left on the editing room floor. I thought, look, we have there's a Jerry story, a George's story, a Cramer story, and a Laine's story. This is a Frank story, this is a fifth story. There's no way it'll survive the editing process. So I comforted myself by saying, it'll.

You know, here we are, It was like an out of body experience. And I remember thinking something that I hadn't thought since I left for college, which is my father might actually physically murder me over this and so and I couldn't tell if it was good or not, Like it's one of the things where you're right, And obviously that happens in shows that are not taken partially from your childhood. But in that case, what I was hoping was the following I was hoping that. I was hoping that Festivus would be left on the editing room floor. I thought, look, we have there's a Jerry story, a George's story, a Cramer story, and a Laine's story. This is a Frank story, this is a fifth story. There's no way it'll survive the editing process. So I comforted myself by saying, it'll.

All be fine.

All be fine.

They're just gonna snip it around the edges and then they'll they'll come to their senses. They'll come to their senses. And they realized, no, we don't want to do this to the show. The show does not deserve this, America does not deserve this. But as it turned out, somehow they edited thirteen and a half minutes out of it. That that's how long it was, and they need to actually fit together in a way that made sense and was watchable. And I've was surprised. And it's a testament to the editors and to the talent of the gentleman I mentioned, and Jerry's vision steering the show and as always and and uh oh man, if you remember shooting that scene the festive dinners.

They're just gonna snip it around the edges and then they'll they'll come to their senses. They'll come to their senses. And they realized, no, we don't want to do this to the show. The show does not deserve this, America does not deserve this. But as it turned out, somehow they edited thirteen and a half minutes out of it. That that's how long it was, and they need to actually fit together in a way that made sense and was watchable. And I've was surprised. And it's a testament to the editors and to the talent of the gentleman I mentioned, and Jerry's vision steering the show and as always and and uh oh man, if you remember shooting that scene the festive dinners.

Around the table. What I remember vividly.

Around the table. What I remember vividly.

I think there's probably I think this is available online on bloopers, but I can't remember the reason why. But Julia looked pretty draggled by the time she got to the table, I think, like her hair was all matted down, and.

I think there's probably I think this is available online on bloopers, but I can't remember the reason why. But Julia looked pretty draggled by the time she got to the table, I think, like her hair was all matted down, and.

It was to parallel the girl who looked good in One Life exactly.

It was to parallel the girl who looked good in One Life exactly.

And there was this kind of unsavory looking guy who was hitting on her at the table and he said something about you look great, and in total Julia Elaine fashion, she goes, huh, thanks. She was like hell as much as Julia could ever look like hel and she couldn't get through it.

And there was this kind of unsavory looking guy who was hitting on her at the table and he said something about you look great, and in total Julia Elaine fashion, she goes, huh, thanks. She was like hell as much as Julia could ever look like hel and she couldn't get through it.

She could.

She could.

The guy's face was so great. He was one of those great characters that they always found. And he did it perfectly. He did it like right on the edge of you know, you know, child rapist. And it was she just and that and we did take after take and then then you know, God rest them. Jerry Stiller would get up and start going, I got a lot of problems with your papa, and that we were That was it, we were done.

The guy's face was so great. He was one of those great characters that they always found. And he did it perfectly. He did it like right on the edge of you know, you know, child rapist. And it was she just and that and we did take after take and then then you know, God rest them. Jerry Stiller would get up and start going, I got a lot of problems with your papa, and that we were That was it, we were done.

I remember a couple of things. First of all, the guy you're talking about, he he was a he did a him all access show in New York City, I think out of Brooklyn, in which he reviewed pornography. He was an actual like like, he was exactly who you think he would be, and he played that perfectly. I remember another thing which at the beginning, I remember, I remember all of you breaking everybody. Yeah, but at the very beginning, I think Julius said somebody to Jerry, like, we get this in one take, I'll give you a million dollars something like that, and needless to say, it took eight hours.

I remember a couple of things. First of all, the guy you're talking about, he he was a he did a him all access show in New York City, I think out of Brooklyn, in which he reviewed pornography. He was an actual like like, he was exactly who you think he would be, and he played that perfectly. I remember another thing which at the beginning, I remember, I remember all of you breaking everybody. Yeah, but at the very beginning, I think Julius said somebody to Jerry, like, we get this in one take, I'll give you a million dollars something like that, and needless to say, it took eight hours.

She personally made sure that we weren't going to get an I think I think it took eight hours, yeah, wow, to get the table.

She personally made sure that we weren't going to get an I think I think it took eight hours, yeah, wow, to get the table.

And I think that the guy that we're talking about, the kind of you know, borderline.

And I think that the guy that we're talking about, the kind of you know, borderline.

Personality Colin's sleazy friend.

Personality Colin's sleazy friend.

I think the guy who played his cohort on the show turned out to be Tracy LED's esteemed actor author employer.

I think the guy who played his cohort on the show turned out to be Tracy LED's esteemed actor author employer.

Putt surprise, So let me ask you a big question to clear something up that's been out there forever. So when people celebrate festivals, they try and emulate the meal, but nobody can actually figure out there are no clear shot. People tried to freeze frame it and whatever. So I've read about this portrayal. They're trying to figure it out. So what they do is they get Bopka from one episode, they get bagels from their marbles. But there are reports that there was let us with what looked to be meal out on it on the table. What was do you do you? Does anybody know what the meal was in the sign phone.

Putt surprise, So let me ask you a big question to clear something up that's been out there forever. So when people celebrate festivals, they try and emulate the meal, but nobody can actually figure out there are no clear shot. People tried to freeze frame it and whatever. So I've read about this portrayal. They're trying to figure it out. So what they do is they get Bopka from one episode, they get bagels from their marbles. But there are reports that there was let us with what looked to be meal out on it on the table. What was do you do you? Does anybody know what the meal was in the sign phone.

Episode on the show. I'm pretty sure it was meat loaf. Yeah, cleared it up for every there was a there was a disagreeable, suspect looking meat loaf that was carved up before the scene and put on everyone's plate.

Episode on the show. I'm pretty sure it was meat loaf. Yeah, cleared it up for every there was a there was a disagreeable, suspect looking meat loaf that was carved up before the scene and put on everyone's plate.

There you go, I think, yeah, because nobody can identify for sure when they celebrate festivals at home, so they emulate by by by grabbing from different episodes. Like I said, the Bopka, et cetera for the meal. But you just cleaned it up. Now people who have festiv it's meat loaf on lettuce. Oh my god, I.

There you go, I think, yeah, because nobody can identify for sure when they celebrate festivals at home, so they emulate by by by grabbing from different episodes. Like I said, the Bopka, et cetera for the meal. But you just cleaned it up. Now people who have festiv it's meat loaf on lettuce. Oh my god, I.

Mean the real thing was it was whatever the whatever we were having for dinner. It was usually you know, it was a holiday, So my mom made like a chicken or something.

Mean the real thing was it was whatever the whatever we were having for dinner. It was usually you know, it was a holiday, So my mom made like a chicken or something.

But what was the fallout from the episode within your family?

But what was the fallout from the episode within your family?

My mom was real afraid to tell me Dad. Uh, Mark thought it was hilarious because he was not going to get hit by any of the bullback. It was all falled on me. My other brother didn't want any part of it. Uh, And then it came out and I had to tell my dad. At first he didn't understand, and then he got real mad like like like yeah, like we're very briefly like and he by that point he was slowing down. There wasn't so much of the throwing stuff mad level left, but he was very exercised. But then he saw it and he kind of liked it. And then people, you know, the reviews started coming. He started and then he immediately became insufferably smug and thought that that episode retroactively justified every poor choice he'd never made his entire life. He was, Oh, he was thrilled. He was over the moon. He was over the moon.

My mom was real afraid to tell me Dad. Uh, Mark thought it was hilarious because he was not going to get hit by any of the bullback. It was all falled on me. My other brother didn't want any part of it. Uh, And then it came out and I had to tell my dad. At first he didn't understand, and then he got real mad like like like yeah, like we're very briefly like and he by that point he was slowing down. There wasn't so much of the throwing stuff mad level left, but he was very exercised. But then he saw it and he kind of liked it. And then people, you know, the reviews started coming. He started and then he immediately became insufferably smug and thought that that episode retroactively justified every poor choice he'd never made his entire life. He was, Oh, he was thrilled. He was over the moon. He was over the moon.

So you would tell people, I'm thest shut him up.

So you would tell people, I'm thest shut him up.

Ben and Jerry's made uh like a flavor. It was like burnt shirt caramel and Christmas Eve type flavors. And Uh. They sent a poster and my dad framed it and insisted on like hanging on the wall the kitchen in a place where it really didn't fit. So he was he was for the last do the last decade and a half of his life. For more.

Ben and Jerry's made uh like a flavor. It was like burnt shirt caramel and Christmas Eve type flavors. And Uh. They sent a poster and my dad framed it and insisted on like hanging on the wall the kitchen in a place where it really didn't fit. So he was he was for the last do the last decade and a half of his life. For more.

Could not have been prouder. Could Speaking of the ice cream.

Could not have been prouder. Could Speaking of the ice cream.

So I just you know, I went online and I went to just Amazon and typed in Festivus related things, and here's what came up. Lots of poles, you know, by a Festivus pole, there's a board game. There were fireplace stockings, sweaters, mugs, treo ornaments, playing cards, t shirts, refrigerator magnets, and the ice cream flavor.

So I just you know, I went online and I went to just Amazon and typed in Festivus related things, and here's what came up. Lots of poles, you know, by a Festivus pole, there's a board game. There were fireplace stockings, sweaters, mugs, treo ornaments, playing cards, t shirts, refrigerator magnets, and the ice cream flavor.

Do you ever see anything from any of that? No?

Do you ever see anything from any of that? No?

No, I mean no, no, I mean look, as far as I know in the context of the show, the copyright to that holiday is owned by Castle Rock Communications and they're welcome to it. And as of right now, it's an open source holiday. It's entered into the culture, which I'm I have mixed emotions about, obviously. But if Satanists want to protest against fascism in Florida by putting up a display with beer cans and putting the word Festivus on it in the Florida State House, which happened, hey.

No, I mean no, no, I mean look, as far as I know in the context of the show, the copyright to that holiday is owned by Castle Rock Communications and they're welcome to it. And as of right now, it's an open source holiday. It's entered into the culture, which I'm I have mixed emotions about, obviously. But if Satanists want to protest against fascism in Florida by putting up a display with beer cans and putting the word Festivus on it in the Florida State House, which happened, hey.

Good for you to just go for it was a phrase festivus for the rest of us. That was a phrase that the family did use, right, And your daddy came up with.

Good for you to just go for it was a phrase festivus for the rest of us. That was a phrase that the family did use, right, And your daddy came up with.

I have these tapes and they're actually in that filing cabinet and they were remastered to CDs a long time ago, and their tapes from every year, and in nineteen seventy six that year, my dad, in the tape recording said this is a festist for the rest of us. But what he meant by that was for the living as opposed to the dead, because that year my grandmother, Jeanette Marie O'Connor O'Keeffe, had had a stroke in a supermarket in Jersey City and died. We don't pass away in my family, we die, and so that was what it meant. And I remember that and I sort of spat it out without remembering the context. Then by the time it's in the script and it's actually working and we're past the table, like, oh yeah, actually about my dead grandpa's around, well, I.

I have these tapes and they're actually in that filing cabinet and they were remastered to CDs a long time ago, and their tapes from every year, and in nineteen seventy six that year, my dad, in the tape recording said this is a festist for the rest of us. But what he meant by that was for the living as opposed to the dead, because that year my grandmother, Jeanette Marie O'Connor O'Keeffe, had had a stroke in a supermarket in Jersey City and died. We don't pass away in my family, we die, and so that was what it meant. And I remember that and I sort of spat it out without remembering the context. Then by the time it's in the script and it's actually working and we're past the table, like, oh yeah, actually about my dead grandpa's around, well, I.

Always thought it was because.

Always thought it was because.

I actually thought it was true of your family as well, But I always thought it was Frank Costanza's. You know, he was an atheist, you know, he didn't want to play into any of the religiosity. So it was a festival for the rest of us, you know who don't.

I actually thought it was true of your family as well, But I always thought it was Frank Costanza's. You know, he was an atheist, you know, he didn't want to play into any of the religiosity. So it was a festival for the rest of us, you know who don't.

Well, the original version was it was those of us who were alive as opposed to dead.

Well, the original version was it was those of us who were alive as opposed to dead.

Did your did the family either accept or pervert any other holiday? Was Thanksgiving?

Did your did the family either accept or pervert any other holiday? Was Thanksgiving?

Okay? Was Halloween?

Okay? Was Halloween?

Halloween?

Halloween?

Okay? Was?

Okay? Was?

I mean? Thanksgiving was weird, but it was recognizably Thanksgiving. We celebrated Christmas in a cultural way, no religiosity at all. So the answer is no, he didn't pervert any other holidays. But that's just wasn't the only made up holiday he had. There were weirder ones. Oh tell, that's just wasn't the only made up holiday he had. There were weirder ones.

I mean? Thanksgiving was weird, but it was recognizably Thanksgiving. We celebrated Christmas in a cultural way, no religiosity at all. So the answer is no, he didn't pervert any other holidays. But that's just wasn't the only made up holiday he had. There were weirder ones. Oh tell, that's just wasn't the only made up holiday he had. There were weirder ones.

Oh pray tell, well, this is not this to start.

Oh pray tell, well, this is not this to start.

Off, You know the A very merry on birthday to you from uh Lewis Carroll.

Off, You know the A very merry on birthday to you from uh Lewis Carroll.

I am familiar with it, very peripherally.

I am familiar with it, very peripherally.

Yes, from Alice in Wonderland. Whenever my dad did something so drunkenly, violently unacceptable or offensive or horrifying or just generally embarrassing that my mom was about to leave him, then whichever child was offended against would get an extra birthday and that was called an unbirthday, and it was sort of a little birthday, but it was still it was called an un birthday.

Yes, from Alice in Wonderland. Whenever my dad did something so drunkenly, violently unacceptable or offensive or horrifying or just generally embarrassing that my mom was about to leave him, then whichever child was offended against would get an extra birthday and that was called an unbirthday, and it was sort of a little birthday, but it was still it was called an un birthday.

That was weird, weird.

That was weird, weird.

It was something called the Polish Hour, and I started to explain what the Polish hour was, because he said it's time for the Polish shower. What this meant was lights were again extinguished. The guy was really into candles. I don't know if he didn't have electricity growing up or something, But then he made my mother play Chopin's Polonaise on the piano, which had not been tuned in twenty years, and so it sounded really peculiar, kind of like this theme to Halloween when she tried to play it. And then he would deliver an off the cuff impromptu monologue looking back on this moment from the perspective of the future, like thirty years from now, remembering in the present what was happening, but referred to the town we lived in as the swamp, and it was just him pounding huge amounts of alcoholic beverages while reminiscing about things that either hadn't happened yet or were happening now as if they had happened in the distant past. There was definitely a whiff of Beckett of a crap glass tape to this too. But he just sat in this ancient stained yellow chair chanting this nonsense while my mom was forced to play this a piece of piano music on an untuned piano.

It was something called the Polish Hour, and I started to explain what the Polish hour was, because he said it's time for the Polish shower. What this meant was lights were again extinguished. The guy was really into candles. I don't know if he didn't have electricity growing up or something, But then he made my mother play Chopin's Polonaise on the piano, which had not been tuned in twenty years, and so it sounded really peculiar, kind of like this theme to Halloween when she tried to play it. And then he would deliver an off the cuff impromptu monologue looking back on this moment from the perspective of the future, like thirty years from now, remembering in the present what was happening, but referred to the town we lived in as the swamp, and it was just him pounding huge amounts of alcoholic beverages while reminiscing about things that either hadn't happened yet or were happening now as if they had happened in the distant past. There was definitely a whiff of Beckett of a crap glass tape to this too. But he just sat in this ancient stained yellow chair chanting this nonsense while my mom was forced to play this a piece of piano music on an untuned piano.

Even I said, you would come home and never know what was going to happen on any given day.

Even I said, you would come home and never know what was going to happen on any given day.

Pretty much, I mean we we. Also there were classes after class, I mean we received additional schooling in. One of them was quantum theory, but this was the late nineteen seventies, so they only discovered a few quarks. We didn't have a full quark component compliment. Yet, there was a whole room of the house filled Florida ceiling with books about the Kennedy assassination. So this was what I came home, yes, on a daily basis.

Pretty much, I mean we we. Also there were classes after class, I mean we received additional schooling in. One of them was quantum theory, but this was the late nineteen seventies, so they only discovered a few quarks. We didn't have a full quark component compliment. Yet, there was a whole room of the house filled Florida ceiling with books about the Kennedy assassination. So this was what I came home, yes, on a daily basis.

But damn, what's amazing is.

But damn, what's amazing is.

You know?

You know?

It's amazing amazing. This is something Jerry said after recounting one of these anecdotes. I think it was explaining festivals. It was a long beat, and then I believe it with Jerry said, why are you alive?

It's amazing amazing. This is something Jerry said after recounting one of these anecdotes. I think it was explaining festivals. It was a long beat, and then I believe it with Jerry said, why are you alive?

Yeah, but Dane, I was going to go the other way. The weird thing is and I know there's alcoholism by personally bipolar disorder, but in a weird way, because you're so articulate, you know history, you're you're you're aware a limited a grasp of quantum that's tough but fair. You're exposed to so much, even though it was in a bizarre way, went here, you went to Harvard, you ended up writing on major shows. So in a weird way, your father exposed you to a lot of stuff in a bizarre way that you were presented, but you turned out taking all of that in some way here, he said condescendingly, which means talking about Dan.

Yeah, but Dane, I was going to go the other way. The weird thing is and I know there's alcoholism by personally bipolar disorder, but in a weird way, because you're so articulate, you know history, you're you're you're aware a limited a grasp of quantum that's tough but fair. You're exposed to so much, even though it was in a bizarre way, went here, you went to Harvard, you ended up writing on major shows. So in a weird way, your father exposed you to a lot of stuff in a bizarre way that you were presented, but you turned out taking all of that in some way here, he said condescendingly, which means talking about Dan.

No, it's there's definitely an aspect of that, absolutely sure.

No, it's there's definitely an aspect of that, absolutely sure.

I mean, I guess to ping pong off of what Peter is saying. And I hadn't thought to even get into this because it's kind of a heavy question and you don't have to answer it.

I mean, I guess to ping pong off of what Peter is saying. And I hadn't thought to even get into this because it's kind of a heavy question and you don't have to answer it.

But I can't get a.

But I can't get a.

Read on whether you feel like I mean, it's easy for me to say I loved my dad and I miss him and he was a big part of my life.

Read on whether you feel like I mean, it's easy for me to say I loved my dad and I miss him and he was a big part of my life.

Did you have a relationship that you valued with your father or was it just too hard to find it?

Did you have a relationship that you valued with your father or was it just too hard to find it?

I mean, it's complicated, but yeah, absolutely, I love my father. He was that was the It would have been easy if he had been monstrous and unlovable, but he was incredibly charismatic and brilliant and it was talking his way into or out of anything. So yeah, actually in the last like particularly the last ten years of his life. Actually, you know, arguably since the festest episode came out, we were you know, as close as you can get to someone that damage.

I mean, it's complicated, but yeah, absolutely, I love my father. He was that was the It would have been easy if he had been monstrous and unlovable, but he was incredibly charismatic and brilliant and it was talking his way into or out of anything. So yeah, actually in the last like particularly the last ten years of his life. Actually, you know, arguably since the festest episode came out, we were you know, as close as you can get to someone that damage.

Yeah, yeah, wow. And the other thing that's weird is estensibly your bizarre holiday has been twenty seven years later, it still persists and it has become like for families that do it, it has become part of their culture. On our hip, we're doing a Festivus thing, it's celebratory.

Yeah, yeah, wow. And the other thing that's weird is estensibly your bizarre holiday has been twenty seven years later, it still persists and it has become like for families that do it, it has become part of their culture. On our hip, we're doing a Festivus thing, it's celebratory.

I mean, no one that I know that that you know, fools around with Festivus is doing it as anything other than a joy, fun unique, you know, something that.

I mean, no one that I know that that you know, fools around with Festivus is doing it as anything other than a joy, fun unique, you know, something that.

They look forward to, and it identifies that family as hey, we're fine, we're quirking, we're different. And they've taken the feats of strength and they do I read, they do weightlifting, they do all kinds of racing. They've taken it morphed it into their family's own and it's pure joy for people.

They look forward to, and it identifies that family as hey, we're fine, we're quirking, we're different. And they've taken the feats of strength and they do I read, they do weightlifting, they do all kinds of racing. They've taken it morphed it into their family's own and it's pure joy for people.

It's the watching videos of it, and you're absolutely right, it's it's joyful. And so in retrospect, not only were Jerry and Dave and Jeff and Alec right, they they sort of retro they sort of redeemed that unpleasant morasses of memory because now this thing that would have been something that you know, I tried to you know, uh work through therapy, is something that now you know, literally dozens of people around the country are having a good time with.

It's the watching videos of it, and you're absolutely right, it's it's joyful. And so in retrospect, not only were Jerry and Dave and Jeff and Alec right, they they sort of retro they sort of redeemed that unpleasant morasses of memory because now this thing that would have been something that you know, I tried to you know, uh work through therapy, is something that now you know, literally dozens of people around the country are having a good time with.

It.

It.

Yeah, so so they certainly a lot of the poison has been taken out of it by by it being now something that it's just just so strange that like a super like possibly one of the weirdest parts of a very strange childhood is now Yeah, it's a word. It's the word that my dad made up is now out there.

Yeah, so so they certainly a lot of the poison has been taken out of it by by it being now something that it's just just so strange that like a super like possibly one of the weirdest parts of a very strange childhood is now Yeah, it's a word. It's the word that my dad made up is now out there.

That's a wonderful thing. And David, you have some insight because people are so fascinated still with Sient Fall Notts on Netflix and it's just the next generation watches.

That's a wonderful thing. And David, you have some insight because people are so fascinated still with Sient Fall Notts on Netflix and it's just the next generation watches.

Well, actually, I would be I would be remiss if I didn't say it was it was just the honor of my life. It was every day there with a joy. It was hard work. It was unbelievably hard work, as you remember, particularly that season when I did not have the benefit of working with with mister David. But uh, yeah, it was such a pleasure to work with you on that Jason.

Well, actually, I would be I would be remiss if I didn't say it was it was just the honor of my life. It was every day there with a joy. It was hard work. It was unbelievably hard work, as you remember, particularly that season when I did not have the benefit of working with with mister David. But uh, yeah, it was such a pleasure to work with you on that Jason.

Thank you brother. I right back at you and I it was it was it was just one of those. But I was going to ask me, what was the writers What did it feel like. I've been in writers rooms and it gets very competitive. People don't want to laugh at your joke. Everybody's trying to please the showrunner to figure out what's in there. Had I've been in those kinds of writers rooms, and I've been in kind of writers rooms where it's just a lot of fun, where people are just making everybody laugh and it's just a collective joy to do. What was it. What was your experience in the writer's room? It was a very competitive or.

Thank you brother. I right back at you and I it was it was it was just one of those. But I was going to ask me, what was the writers What did it feel like. I've been in writers rooms and it gets very competitive. People don't want to laugh at your joke. Everybody's trying to please the showrunner to figure out what's in there. Had I've been in those kinds of writers rooms, and I've been in kind of writers rooms where it's just a lot of fun, where people are just making everybody laugh and it's just a collective joy to do. What was it. What was your experience in the writer's room? It was a very competitive or.

It was, yeah, but everyone took it very seriously. This is the greatest TV comedy of all time, and we are tasked with doing this without one of the creators, and we better get it right because it's it's a It would be a crime and a disgrace if we didn't. So, yeah, that people, it was unbelievably fun.

It was, yeah, but everyone took it very seriously. This is the greatest TV comedy of all time, and we are tasked with doing this without one of the creators, and we better get it right because it's it's a It would be a crime and a disgrace if we didn't. So, yeah, that people, it was unbelievably fun.

It was uh.

It was uh.

Making Jerry Seinfeld laugh in the room is uh you know, like particularly one time when he almost Loqui came out of notice, like the birth of my son was nice. That was fun.

Making Jerry Seinfeld laugh in the room is uh you know, like particularly one time when he almost Loqui came out of notice, like the birth of my son was nice. That was fun.

I enjoyed it.

I enjoyed it.

But I got to say seeing Jerry laugh and that that was the rappiest moment of my l It was a joy. It was another joy. Now were there times that people possibly almost came to blows, Yes, because they disagreed about the the These were very, very talented. I mean you had Jennifer Crittenden, who I've worked with since then. It was a genius, and Alec and Jeff and Dave who have together created and run some of the greatest comedies of the last twenty years. And Spike Ferston. I mean, these were all people at the absolute top of their game, and everyone cared very much about getting it right and not just getting it right and making it as good as it could possibly be. So most of the time people were laughing so hard that your voice was horsed by the end of the day. But yeah, sometimes there were very loud disagreements and Jerry would would you know, have to tamp it down?

But I got to say seeing Jerry laugh and that that was the rappiest moment of my l It was a joy. It was another joy. Now were there times that people possibly almost came to blows, Yes, because they disagreed about the the These were very, very talented. I mean you had Jennifer Crittenden, who I've worked with since then. It was a genius, and Alec and Jeff and Dave who have together created and run some of the greatest comedies of the last twenty years. And Spike Ferston. I mean, these were all people at the absolute top of their game, and everyone cared very much about getting it right and not just getting it right and making it as good as it could possibly be. So most of the time people were laughing so hard that your voice was horsed by the end of the day. But yeah, sometimes there were very loud disagreements and Jerry would would you know, have to tamp it down?

And did an episode start with an idea, with an overall idea or because it was a sitcom, we had to have four intersecting stories, which was unique. Did you start with with with modular Hey, that may work better with this on this episode and moving stuff around?

And did an episode start with an idea, with an overall idea or because it was a sitcom, we had to have four intersecting stories, which was unique. Did you start with with with modular Hey, that may work better with this on this episode and moving stuff around?

Absolutely, that sometimes did happen, But most of the time you just went into a room with Jerry and Jeff and Alick and Dave and you ran a whole bunch of ideas, ideas for a capsule story that could be a George story. I got a freelance. My first episode was season eight on the Pothole, which was Jerry not to his girlfriend's toothbrush and the toilet and then can't tell her and she's already brushed her teeth, which actually happened to my now wife and you when we lived in New York on the Upper West Side, and I had to tell her for literally years and years, I just thought of that that was what that wasn't a real thing, that was like a marvel. And then later once once she was already pregnant, she's nowhere for her to go, I said, yeah, you know, that really happened. I threw your tooth. I threw the toothbrush away, and I subbed it out when it was too late. Yeah, you brush your teeth of the toilet water. So you'd throw stories out of them like that and they'd approve. And once you go out of Jerry, George and Elne and A. Cramer proved, then you were set off to outline it. And it was a very intricate structure of there were big rooms for punch up because all the writers, and then there were very small rooms, which is just one person trying to put together that episode they were going to write and getting the stories approved by the the top people. And then there were rewrite rooms for somewhere in the middle, and then there were post table punch up sessions, which was again every one one. So it was incredibly well structured, and it had to be because you know, I remember at the beginning of production Schaeffer said, Okay, uh, nobody's uh, nobody make any plans for the weekend. And someone said what weekend? He said, all weekends. It was a little uh. And he was damn he was correct, because right, yes, and and that's because the Jeff and Allen were and Dave were remarkably talented show runners have continued to be, but the tone was set by Jerry. Because this his work ethic continues to blow me away to this day. I remember very specifically we had a nine am rewrite on a Sunday and I got there a little early by accident, and he was there at eight forty five pacing because he wanted to get the work done and brilliant obviously brilliant, funny. You can't say enough about that. But he also doesn't get credit for being John Starks, for just working harder than any comic in the history of comics.

Absolutely, that sometimes did happen, But most of the time you just went into a room with Jerry and Jeff and Alick and Dave and you ran a whole bunch of ideas, ideas for a capsule story that could be a George story. I got a freelance. My first episode was season eight on the Pothole, which was Jerry not to his girlfriend's toothbrush and the toilet and then can't tell her and she's already brushed her teeth, which actually happened to my now wife and you when we lived in New York on the Upper West Side, and I had to tell her for literally years and years, I just thought of that that was what that wasn't a real thing, that was like a marvel. And then later once once she was already pregnant, she's nowhere for her to go, I said, yeah, you know, that really happened. I threw your tooth. I threw the toothbrush away, and I subbed it out when it was too late. Yeah, you brush your teeth of the toilet water. So you'd throw stories out of them like that and they'd approve. And once you go out of Jerry, George and Elne and A. Cramer proved, then you were set off to outline it. And it was a very intricate structure of there were big rooms for punch up because all the writers, and then there were very small rooms, which is just one person trying to put together that episode they were going to write and getting the stories approved by the the top people. And then there were rewrite rooms for somewhere in the middle, and then there were post table punch up sessions, which was again every one one. So it was incredibly well structured, and it had to be because you know, I remember at the beginning of production Schaeffer said, Okay, uh, nobody's uh, nobody make any plans for the weekend. And someone said what weekend? He said, all weekends. It was a little uh. And he was damn he was correct, because right, yes, and and that's because the Jeff and Allen were and Dave were remarkably talented show runners have continued to be, but the tone was set by Jerry. Because this his work ethic continues to blow me away to this day. I remember very specifically we had a nine am rewrite on a Sunday and I got there a little early by accident, and he was there at eight forty five pacing because he wanted to get the work done and brilliant obviously brilliant, funny. You can't say enough about that. But he also doesn't get credit for being John Starks, for just working harder than any comic in the history of comics.

Yeah, being the show and had at that then learn and do and and delivery. It is said, great to see you. I wish you.

Yeah, being the show and had at that then learn and do and and delivery. It is said, great to see you. I wish you.

This is our holiday show, so happy holidays to you and your family.

This is our holiday show, so happy holidays to you and your family.

And uh and I am.

And uh and I am.

I am truly delighted to see you. And it makes me feel like we should just sit sometime and catch up. But I feel that way about our whole group.

I am truly delighted to see you. And it makes me feel like we should just sit sometime and catch up. But I feel that way about our whole group.

But I love that anytime you just tell me where, I'll even go to the valley.

But I love that anytime you just tell me where, I'll even go to the valley.

I love that, WHOA said, even it's the assumption that I did by what's going to happen? You call and said, let's meet it in the valley. Who was just say I was just saying that. I was just saying that on the podcast, Dan, thank you my friends. So wasn't that lovely? Wasn't that a little trip down memory lane to find out how the holiday began? And then with child abuse? And hell boy, I just still you look at Dan and he's a great guy. Yeah. The fact that he revealed that in the writer's room and now he's got to live with every year.

I love that, WHOA said, even it's the assumption that I did by what's going to happen? You call and said, let's meet it in the valley. Who was just say I was just saying that. I was just saying that on the podcast, Dan, thank you my friends. So wasn't that lovely? Wasn't that a little trip down memory lane to find out how the holiday began? And then with child abuse? And hell boy, I just still you look at Dan and he's a great guy. Yeah. The fact that he revealed that in the writer's room and now he's got to live with every year.

All of this thing that tortured him as a child is now is international mind the world. Yeah, amazing. So you've you've arranged a little treat for me as well as the listeners. Because I was not a part of your you were busy off doing doing theater and stuff like that. I just thought it would be really cool.

All of this thing that tortured him as a child is now is international mind the world. Yeah, amazing. So you've you've arranged a little treat for me as well as the listeners. Because I was not a part of your you were busy off doing doing theater and stuff like that. I just thought it would be really cool.

We have such a talented guy that we met here, Sonny Promoton, and he works with how I'm into how I kind of well, I hate to stay discovered you, but you signing in the Black Pack. We were exposed to them here where we record and blown away by the talent.

We have such a talented guy that we met here, Sonny Promoton, and he works with how I'm into how I kind of well, I hate to stay discovered you, but you signing in the Black Pack. We were exposed to them here where we record and blown away by the talent.

The voice, the musicianship, and you know, it's it's it's one of those things, especially in this town.

The voice, the musicianship, and you know, it's it's it's one of those things, especially in this town.

All this guy's great, all, this guy's faby and.

All this guy's great, all, this guy's faby and.

We were blown away. I'm telling you how he said, yeah, they're my house band, and I'm going, okay, howie, whatever you need like a house What are you doing when you need a house band? You guys started playing, and we were like, what the hell is going on in that little corner over there?

We were blown away. I'm telling you how he said, yeah, they're my house band, and I'm going, okay, howie, whatever you need like a house What are you doing when you need a house band? You guys started playing, and we were like, what the hell is going on in that little corner over there?

There's how many is four players?

There's how many is four players?

We actually our whole band is up to like eight players, but we change in and out. We changed formats and different people. But when we're here, we're usually about five people. But you know, our real band, we've we've got a lot of people.

We actually our whole band is up to like eight players, but we change in and out. We changed formats and different people. But when we're here, we're usually about five people. But you know, our real band, we've we've got a lot of people.

All I can tell you is they're putting out.

All I can tell you is they're putting out.

Sound and a lot of the stuff you guys do are covers of things, but you totally changed the feel and the vibe and the groove and the certainly the musicality of it all.

Sound and a lot of the stuff you guys do are covers of things, but you totally changed the feel and the vibe and the groove and the certainly the musicality of it all.

And it feels like, since we never see them.

And it feels like, since we never see them.

Rehearse, we go, hey, play a blivola demama in seven and g you know, and.

Rehearse, we go, hey, play a blivola demama in seven and g you know, and.

So what's background? When did you start playing?

So what's background? When did you start playing?

Okay, I really I started playing piano when I was sixteen. At one point I had such hard time, I got really depressed and and I just kind of was wandering around and walking around the city, and I would hear something in my ear. I could hear just some notes and some different noises, right, I said, Hell, why don't you go find a piano somewhere and see if I can figure something out. I don't know, and I sat down and I started to tinker. Within fifteen minutes, I wrote my first song and changed my life. And then a year later I had over three hundred songs.

Okay, I really I started playing piano when I was sixteen. At one point I had such hard time, I got really depressed and and I just kind of was wandering around and walking around the city, and I would hear something in my ear. I could hear just some notes and some different noises, right, I said, Hell, why don't you go find a piano somewhere and see if I can figure something out. I don't know, and I sat down and I started to tinker. Within fifteen minutes, I wrote my first song and changed my life. And then a year later I had over three hundred songs.

Did you know you had the ability to play?

Did you know you had the ability to play?

I did not know.

I did not know.

And was it just something that was in you? Who taught your chorus.

And was it just something that was in you? Who taught your chorus.

Already taught me chords? Nobody did.

Already taught me chords? Nobody did.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I looked at the piano and it just made sense to me. I played a little bit here and there, and I was like, oh, okay, this is relative, this makes sense. I didn't know the term for it. I didn't understand what it was. I would just play the notes and the sound. I knew that the sounds worked together. I didn't have any clue. I didn't have any theory behind it at all, and I just started to write music.

I looked at the piano and it just made sense to me. I played a little bit here and there, and I was like, oh, okay, this is relative, this makes sense. I didn't know the term for it. I didn't understand what it was. I would just play the notes and the sound. I knew that the sounds worked together. I didn't have any clue. I didn't have any theory behind it at all, and I just started to write music.

And I we have a.

And I we have a.

Only some much story in that I learned music on flute, so I had heavy braces.

Only some much story in that I learned music on flute, so I had heavy braces.

In my third grade, you had to take an instrument we didn't have. I didn't have a piano.

In my third grade, you had to take an instrument we didn't have. I didn't have a piano.

My parents refuse to let me play drums, so for me, I couldn't put anything in or press against my mouth. So I couldn't do anything that needed a trumpet's Armbisher right, I couldn't put a reed instrument in my mouth because of the dender, and so I was down to violin or flute. And I was already the subject of bullying. So I went, which one can I run with faster? You know, to get away from these guys. So I learned music on flute, but I wanted to learn piano. Now the difference between you and me is I got a basic book on music theory, which said, here's what makes a major cord, here's what makes a minor cord. And not having a piano, I made a cardboard cutout of a keyboard.