Real Life With John CowanAnnabelle White is a New Zealand food writer and author of eleven cookbooks, known for her approachable and fun approach to cooking. She was a long-time food columnist and also wrote the Food Detective column for the Sunday Star-Times. Annabelle served as the food editor for NZ House & Garden and joined New Zealand Woman's Weekly as Food Editor in 2011. In addition to her writing career, she runs cooking classes and regularly speaks at public events, sharing her passion for simple, delicious food that brings people together.
Born and raised in New Zealand, Annabelle spent a year as an AFS Intercultural Programs scholar in Dover, Delaware at age 17. She later earned a Master’s degree with first-class honours from the University of Waikato in 1983 and received the Distinguished Alumni Award in 2009. Annabelle's TV career began in 1989 when she joined TV3's Nightline as a food reporter. She went on to appear regularly on 5.30 With Jude and 5.00 With Jude before hosting her own prime-time shows, including World on a Plate, which featured segments filmed in New York City and Tonga.
Annabelle continued to expand her TV presence with work on Breakfast TV, filming food and travel pieces in Shanghai, Santa Monica, and Ireland. She has also been a regular voice on New Zealand radio since 1990. Throughout her career, Annabelle has become known for her warm, engaging style and her belief in keeping food simple, confidence-building, and enjoyable.
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Gooda welcome to real life. And I smiled hugely this week when I was told my guest tonight would be star cook Annabelle White. Welcome annabel on the show.
It's a total pleasure to be in the studio with you, it really is. I mean you, you are the man who asks all the right questions and you get good things out of people because you listen.
Well, it's much much easier when the person's interesting. And just before we came in, you told me that you were a gun runner, that you were an illegal immigrant in the United States, and there's all these things that people wouldn't gather when they're watching your cooking shows or reading your cooking books.
No, that's true, But I do believe that it's important to be very lead of a variety of a variety of things. You've just got to be interesting. There's no excuse to be boring.
And even this week's going to be interesting for You're off to La again.
Yes, yes, I'm going and I'm just going away for a couple of days to see my brother and his family for Thanksgiving, because that's just a lovely I love Thanksgiving, you know, the turkey and the whole thing, and there's no gifts, so it's actually it's a lovely sort of family celebration, that sort of Norman Rockwell painting on Speed, which is great.
We think of you as Kiwi to the core. Yes, I mean, you're always going on about a hope in places.
Looks that because you've done your research, John.
But there's a big wide American streak through you was out.
There well when I was seventeen.
When I was about sixteen, I decided I want to go to the United States on an AFS scholarship, and my parents said, it's quite interesting. They said, look, we'll pay for your scholarship, but you've got to earn your own spending money. So a week before school certificate, would you believe, I started working in a restaurant. And that's where my real love of hospitality and food came from, from working in restaurants, not in the kitchen, out the front. So I went to live with an Italian American family in Dover, Delaware. You've got to feel sorry this poor family. They agreed to have a student for one year.
And been to get rid of you.
No, the guy at the post office said to me, he said, did you ever leave? Because seriously, I keep on going back, except for the COVID years, because I love it. It's Dover, Delaware. I mean, I met President Biden in the kitchen in Dover.
One you do as you do.
I mean, these things happen in Dover.
They happened to you. They happened to you. I mean you bumped into Tom Hanks.
Yes, now that was interesting. Believe it or not. I know this sounds like, this is a fabulous story. I am literally walking through Central Park. This was three weeks ago. It was a beautiful day, and there's Tom Hanks sitting there with a hat, little black hat on black t shirt, black shirt, and he's talking away on the phone.
And I thought, it's like a terrorist dress like that.
He did look like an extra from Mission Impossible to be honest, but anyway, I looked. I looked at him, and I looked and I did a double take. I thought this had Tom Hanks, and I felt like yelling out, you know, where's Meg Ryan? Or you should be running for forrest gun you should be running.
But you know I didn't.
But here's the other thing. I didn't actually go off and ask for a self for your takers photograph. I just did the very cool thing.
I see the All Blacks. They do this.
You get your clue from these guys, the All Blacks. Whenever they see anyone, they just give you the I mean it's hard on radio to thee she is giving.
A very good eyebrows salute and a little little click.
Of the hand, a little click of the hand meaning I know you, and you know I'm smiling. And you know what someone said to me when I told them about They said, it's clearly he's not a New Yorker. And I said, why is that? There's always such a nice guy. Must be from California. And I said, why do you say that from that little encounter in the park. They said, because if it was a New Yorker, he'd just give you the finger and tell you to get lost.
But he actually did.
He's very handsome and he gave me a lovely big smile and it made my day because he was I think relieved that I wasn't going to come over and pester him.
It was mutual professional respect because he knows how what a celebrity you are. I mean Tom and I.
No, but it's fun.
Little old New Zealand. Anyway. You you you have entered that rank of celebrity status, you probably don't have to do another thing to a coast on that people must come up to you all the time.
People do come up. A man came up to the other day at the supermarket and he said, I remember you used to be on TV and I said, yes, New Zealand's Next Top Model. He goes, nah, nah, nah, not that, and he would have been in He would have been in a seventy sor. He said, I don't tell me. It was something to do with cooking, and he was like this. He was scratching his bum and scratching his forehead and he was like no, no, and he was trying to and I wasn't being very helpful because I know he was trying to remember cuddly cook, which I used to have on my apron because I believe if you're plump or you know, curvaceous, you have every right to call yourself cudly cook.
If you want to anyway, because I don't tell me.
Don't I know who you are.
You're the hefty chef. O oh no, that takes you. Terrible thing is And I said, yeah, that's right.
No, I just said yes, that's right because my attitude. Look at Christmas is coming, so you can be quite relaxed about these types of things. You've got to have the spirit of the festive season and you have to be good to people.
And Christmas is going to be special for you at all.
Well, it's going to be really special because I've got to tell you the very exciting thing. I'm quite heavily involved with us this year. A friend of mine, Mark Gregory, is one of our top chefs in New Zealand. God bless him. Can you believe what he's done. He has written this cockbook which has got Christmas gifts, it's got Christmas food, it's got Christmas games. He's done all the photography, and it's the most extraordinary recipes. I mean, just to give an example, he's got a recipe in there for the pastry that you use for Christmas mince pies, which is absolutely idiot proof and completely fabulous. If you get fostered in the kitchen. And he's also got the most delicious recipe for chutney, but he's put it on YouTube. We've videos stuff and we made strawbag jam and I brought you some here. I've got here we I look, I've got this little thing here of strawberry jam. Put that in the fridge at home. It's absolutely delicious and if you want to make more of it, you can see Mark and I making it on the YouTube. It's called Christmas at the Castle.
That's very sweet. Okay, thank you so much, and thank Mark breen so.
But that's the thing, Christmas at the Castle. Check it out. There's fantastic little videos there and it's really helpful.
And it's fascinating to see that. You know, you've done TV series, you're on all sorts of things, and you were the food editor for Women's Weekly and everything like that, and you're not slowing down at all. You're still doing all these videos and things. And you did a scone one which is taken off fer Fair viral viral viral.
Sorry, oh sorry, well I know it's I'm now you're looking across the studio from the lady who believe it or not, and I'm not getting a scent for this. I gave it away. I gave it away because someone asked. I said, we've got to film it.
It doesn't surprise me at all when you're giving away world class like this or not. You'd give away with YouTube videos as well. Well.
The thing is, it's in the top ten in the world. I'm in the top ten in the world.
Can you believe it?
For button buttermolk scan video. I'm nearly up to a million. So if you're SCons, okay, So if the listeners, if your scones are looking a bit tragic, and I'm not looking at you when I say this, I don't want you to get upset now, John, But if you're making scones and they're tragic, I want you to go to Google.
I can do wonderful brickwork by scones.
Well, Annabelle White buttermilk scones. And here's a little tip since I made the scones. The secret is ice cold butter. The secret is handle them, keep your hot hands well away from them, and buttermilk. But you can see the video. I'm not going to tell you now. You can watch the video in the privacy of your own kitchen. Do you know it's been so successful. I've even had marriage proposals from strange men in the Midwest of.
The on the basis of your scones.
One man wrote to me and he said.
They don't say scone properly there do.
They say biscuits? They said.
But lady, they said, lady, if you're that frisky in the kitchen, can you imagine being married to you? So I wrote, I wrote back to I said, that's not going to happen. We're not in Kansas, so you have to you have to laugh. I mean, this stuff is crazy, but there.
Is the strength of not working up the gluten in the scone next exactly.
But the thing is, here's a little tip. If you love to make date SCons, chop up.
Your date dates are of the devil. Carry on anyway, I'll hold my peace.
Think New Zealand is listening to you right now, and I'm going to help you with something. Guys, if you want to make delicious date SCons, chop up your dates and pour some orange juice and put some orange zest into the dates and leave them overnight, or you can put them in the microwave for a couple of seconds to plump them up and then make the scones with the orange juice and the soaked up into the dates. Oh delicious.
Now you mentioned Mark Gregory and he's got this lovely book. He's got a copy of it there, and you're doing these programs with him, Yes, and he's sort of doing this as a sort of a Christmas gift type thing.
Extraordinary.
He is just the most giving person. I just wish everyone who's listening that you could meet him because he well, maybe if you come along to some of the events you have a chance to because he's the most incredible man, considering he has done all this in terms of the accolades that he's received New Zealand Chef of the Year, British Chef of the Year, and the only chef in New Zealand who's been celebrated by the French government. Where he's a master uvier and he can wear the red, white and blue on a chef jacket. So he's really high up there.
John, not like me.
I'm just a humble cook.
This guy is serious.
But the thing is he is so lovely that he actually genuinely loves Christmas. And I say to him, no more gifts. This here he insists on giving me presents, which is ridiculous. I say, John, please, because honestly, my place my place. If you are a minimist, you need medication to come into my house. Seriously, it is so jammed full of stuff. I say, I'm going through a collecting spree because I like books and I like stuff.
Well, I can see the busyness and activity of your mind. I've got no doubt that you need an environment that is equally the stimulated.
Which of things I think you bring up the best in people, though, John, oh oh, look.
I'm stammering with you at your praise. But if you've just tuned in, you've had no difficulty placing who I'm speaking to. Annabelle White is my guest tonight, and we'll be talking more about about her life, the things she's up to, her travels, her adventures, and also what she believes in and what makes her tech. This is real life on news Talk said be back with you in just a.
Minute, intelligent interviews with interesting people. It's real life on Newstalk ZEDB.
Welcome back to real life. I'm John Cown and that's my great privilege and pleasure to be talking to Annabel, Why to pecked that l Jero song? What are we listening to?
Yes?
Yes, Trouble in Paris. This is the most extraordinary song. I just I said to Alexa in the kitchen, I said, play some al jio because I love his voice and know the thing about it that I love. And the reason why I asked them to play this tonight is that it keeps you listening to that you feel upbeat. You can't feel anything I listen when I'm on the bike, at the gym or something. I listened to it. It motivates you. And I mean many years ago, this is quite funny, but many many years ago, I spend quite a time talking to Frank Bunce. Not so much these days, but Frank and I been got friends for years. He loves my sour cream lemon cake with the lemon juice and sugar. That's another story, but anyway, and I remember him giving me some very good advice and he says, don't worry about what people think, or what he said, I worry about what Lorimains thinks, and I worry about what the team thinks, but I don't worry about other people think. Because he said, you can never you can never change what people think about what, so don't worry about that. And the other thing is he always said surround yourself with positive people. Al jero in that song sounds so upbeat and positive, and I think it's true, and I think it's important that if you, yeah, sometimes and you are surrounded by people who are not positive, but try and try and discipline yourself to see through that and try and understand where they're coming from and maybe listen to some upbeat music.
Well, I think your next business venture, Annabelle, should be to hire yourself out to people to cheer them up, because you are an amazing antidote in a world that's a bit glum at times. And I think you take that on board as a mission, don't you.
Well, I do, I do a little bit. John.
I think my concern is that I know this is going to sound really silly, but you and I just chatting over the last half hour when you laughed, I just I can't tell you what joy that brings me. I just, I absolutely, I mean I remember when I was growing up, I went to a convent and the nuns used to say that if you had a skill, it was a sin if you didn't actually use it. So if you were good with the guitar and you'd say, oh, no, sister, I don't want to play the guitar, they'd say, now listen here, John, You've got a gift to play the guitar now. And they used to I used to have a wonderful time with the nuns because they would encourage us to always be very positive about everything. And they used to say it was in Tarangre and I'd look out the convent window around the toy toys out towards the estuary and the nuns. Was during the sixties. The nuns were absolutely convinced that the Communists were coming. So I'd say, Annabelle, what are you doing looking out the window.
I say, I'm looking for the communist system. And then this is a true story.
This is a true story.
Look, I've no doubt in the truthful.
So they were.
Absolutely convinced that there was going to be this insurgence of Chinese and we were all going to become a communist state and a Catholicism was going to be out the window.
And this is a true story. The convent was at the.
Bottom of thirteenth Avenue, and for people who know Taranga, the church was way up on Cameron Road.
It was quite a.
Hike from the convent to the church. Would take you a good twenty thirty minutes to get there. If you were walking five minutes maybe in the car, and the nuns would turn around.
This is a true story.
The nuns stood there. Now, listen, children, you're to listen to me. When the Communists come, You're to run to the church to pro straighter, sells down on the altar, and you to die for God. And I put my hand up, and they said, what do you want about? I said, listen, sister, it's quite a long way and it's uphill.
Could I leave now with a picnic lunch? And off I went. I said, could I leave.
Now, because it's going to take me a lot longer than these other skinny people who are fast and furious. And that is a true story. I'll never forget that. I never questioned that I was to prostrate myself and die for God. But I was to run to the I was to run up to the church.
Well, I'm so glad that hasn't come to pass.
And I know, I know, I know, but I think I.
Think anything else that the nuns tell you stick I mean, I mean, as did they put anythink of God in your head and heart?
I think they did.
I think in the sense that they were very I know, talking to people who have also been to convents, who had pleasant experiences, and you know, in terms of their convent education, it does. There is a pastoral sense. And I used to be a religion education teacher in a Catholic co ed school and that the emphasis was very much on that, the idea being that you should think of others. You are the big picture, it's not just about you.
And I think in a.
World where people obsessed with social media and cell phones and there's a lot of vanity, which I think vanity is a very serious issue, to be honest. Use people who go and get botox and go and get their eyebrows done and their face is done and their boob lifts.
Oh gosh, And I think to myself.
Look as you are.
You're just lovely as you are. But no, I think that.
Past as it comes back to that thing of what people are being scared of, what people think if.
You like, I know, I think, look, if you're listening and you've got a grandchild, or you've got a child who's twelve or thirteen. I know it's hard with social media, and I'm not saying it's stiff. Please encourage them not to worry, to encourage them not to worry about what people think or say, and try and isolate themselves from that because it's so toxic and it's so destructive and it's so unnecessary. Embrace Embrace yourself with all faults. And if you're with someone, say, for example, John, you came round now from behind the desk and started, you know, altering my hair or fixing this.
But do you know what I mean?
You're making the person feel terrible because you've got to think I think it was it. Oprah Winfrey says, it's not what people say, it's not what people do, it's the way they make you feel. And I think that that's.
Really at the end of the day.
I'll go back to what I was trying to say before. I love to see you laughing the greatest joy for me. And that's why I do food with humor.
I do this.
I call it fumor. I do food. I do stand up comedy and food together because I love to see people laughing. And it almost brings me to tears to see them laughing.
Is this why? I mean? You've done a lot of journalism, you're on TV, a lot of radio. But the thing that you've persisted doing right through and currently are these live gigs that the food shows that you seem to enjoy doing is because of the interaction. You see the people laughing.
The interaction.
And the thing is the New Zealand audiences are fantastic.
Everywhere you go. The people are wonderful.
That's because they're watching a good show.
And well, no, I think it's I think what it is. It's I believe in the socratic thing of asking lots of questions, form a teacher and ask and making it interactive, like I'll get people up from the audience, I'll get people I give a lot of spot prizes, and I just love to see people smiling.
But here's the thing.
You want to make them laugh and you want to make them joyful and happy.
Yes, But I.
Also feel quite strongly about something else to John. When they leave and they've given you the graciousness of being in your audience for half an hour, forty five minutes, did they learn anything?
Now?
That's really important to me. I'm sorry they say you can take the teacher out of the classroom, but you can never take the teacher out of the person. I'm not saying them up there, lecturing them on, you know, the finer points of how to make a timbal or a mussoline. But if I tell them things like make sure you stir your baking powder because all the good stuff goes to the bottom, and if you don't stir it, your muffins aren't going to come out.
And the moths come out. Get new baking powder, exactly. I read that in one of your things too.
But do you know what I mean, John, Like, for example, it's just simple, simple things like I just wish someone had told me at eighteen when I first started out about the joys of lemon juice, Like if you go and make my lovely.
If you know that's a book title, surely I.
Know the joys of lemon juice. If you add lemon juice to nearly everything, it improves it. It's their sidity, the freshness, the vibrancy. So if you make my salad dressing for Christmas this year, and you're going to put it over the new potatoes, the lovely mint and parsley salad dressing if you add a squeeze of lemon juice two weeks after you've made it.
Because the audience tonight have already got their money, so we have out of you tonight. I think they've got those things sticking in their head. I'm just interested in this journey from being a religious education teacher to a celebrity cook. I mean, what could you bring from that, apart from perhaps tips on loaves and fishes. How did you transition from ari to good good to cooking good question?
The tough thing. The tough thing is essentially teaching religious education is not easy, okay, And anyone who's listening who is a regius educational teacher will appreciate this. So I decided the best thing to do, it's back to the absolute core of what I believe in, which is information and fun. So we did so. I decided we would re enact reenact the Bible. So for forty days and forty nights we were out walking around the you know, the playground.
And just before, just before they.
Asked me to leave the school, I was working on the parting of the Red Sea, but I only had a hose, and we also used to we used to reenact the parables and so the burning of the mustard, you know, the burning of the burning of the bush, the casting of the mustard seeds. But the one that was the most popular. The boys loved it was Stone the Prostitute.
Oh they love that.
So I see why you had to give up that career. They as they.
Asked me to leave.
But the thing is, I'm okay with that. I still have I still have students coming up to me today. It's so funny because they're in their forties now and they still called me miss, and they still pull up their socks and put out their cigarettes when they see me. It's so funny. But no, I believe that if you're given something to do, which can be a little bit i'm not going to say super hard, but not easy, teaching religious education and keeping students engaged, bring it, bring a sense of fun into it. I'm not being frivolous, pleased. I'm being very respectful.
It's not shallow, it's not frivolous. It's not actually a communication technique.
Yeah, or I would say to the students, look, we're going to have the less and last sixty minutes. We can have fifty five minutes of serious stuff and then five minutes we can have a few jokes and laughter.
But I'll never forget.
One of my colleagues complained to the principle, there was too much laughter coming out of my classroom, can you believe it?
Which was sad, Yes, but we did.
They wanted a bit more lemon juice. This, How are things down of it?
No?
I think that what you probably put in their heads and hearts was an idea of life to be lived and things to be grasped and stuff to get you through life. I think life can be tough.
A No, life can be tough. And I think the biggest thing they were very interested because I would say to them, listen you because they gave us the briefest to what we were. We had to really instill with the students and our ulious education. But what I said to them, what I said to the students, you've got no idea. This was okay, give you an idea. This was nineteen ninety And I said, if you only knew that, what I'm going to say to you is so different to what I had when I got married in eighty eighty one, it's I mean we're talking about there's not a huge amount of time there say in a period of ten years, the transition from what was believed or followed in eighty through to ninety was huge, absolutely huge.
Men stopped, they no.
And I mean they found that quite interesting because I would say, they would listen to that. I have to say I loved teaching and the day I left teaching because I had to give it up because it was just getting so hard to try and do teaching and the food writing, and I knew that there was other things that.
I could do.
I mean I cried the day I left because I was really I love those kids and those students they bring. Anyone who is a teacher will know what I'm talking about. You get so much joy, in so much laughter. And it's like, that's what I get with the cooking classes because you if you were actually you've.
Just got a bigger class. Now you've gotta you're still basically doing that. You're still giving people tips on yeah, important parts of life, but you've got a really big audience a million people watching you making your scones for.
Instance, and the banana cakes good.
But now I watched the banana cake video. It's very good. I even went to the fridge. I was going to make your banana cake to night when there's no bananas in the deep freeze. There's nearly always bananas and the deep freeze.
So but let me explain something to you, John. If you spend more than five minutes making that cake, it's all on my Annabel White dot com. If you spend more than five minutes, you've got a motor coordination problem. Because seriously, it is designed to be simple, and like my cookbook is designed for eight year olds.
The thing that freaked me out was bringing the eggs up to up the room temperatures. There're a quick way to do that. Because you say it's got to be room temperature and I'm thinking it'll take three hours.
You could just sit there in your chair and put the eggs between your legs and just sit there, remain calm and have nice thoughts and they'd warm up.
See she's full of practical tips ladies.
Again, you could put them into some warm water.
You could put them into some warm water on the beach.
Okay, I'll do that. Annabel has been no doubt it would be. But it's been an absolute delight. And the music that we're going to go out on is playing in my ears already. So what's this last song.
That you've pat called Sissus Cut? I love it because everyone knows Simon and Garfuncle, but they don't realize it. He's actually quite a wonderful musician. And I think this song is just beautifully poignant and delightful, and I give it.
To you, Annabel. Thank you so much for your time, thank you for your one. Thank you Jam. People should look out for that cookbook in the and in the bookshops Christmas at the Castle by Mark Gregory that you're having a lot to do with and all the best for your travels over the next couple of days. This is real life on News Talk seed B. Back with you next Sunday night.
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