One pitch. One catcher’s mitt in A-Rod’s face. And a photograph Red Sox fans would hang on their walls forever.

My friend Joon Lee joins REAL DEAL to relive the 2004 brawl between Jason Varitek and Alex Rodriguez, a moment I’ve spent more than two decades trying not to watch. We go back to the pitch from Bronson Arroyo, the benches clearing, and everything underneath it: A-Rod trying to find his place on Derek Jeter’s team, Boston refusing to back down, and a rivalry ready to boil over.

Then we put Joon’s case to the test. Was this fight really a bigger turning point than Dave Roberts’ steal, David Ortiz’s heroics or Curt Schilling’s bloody sock? And did Boston finally beating New York help change the very thing that made the rivalry special?

That brings us to a harder question: What happened to the Red Sox? Joon explains his criticism of John Henry and ownership, from trading Mookie Betts to treating Fenway like a tourist attraction, and why his concern goes beyond wins and losses. It’s about what happens to a city when the team that brings people together gives its fans fewer reasons to care.

Welcome to Episode 025 of REAL DEAL! I’m Tony Reali, and I’m so happy you’re here.