Rap Radar: Jack Harlow

Published Jun 15, 2023, 7:01 AM

Jack Harlow is taking it back to the basics. For his new album Jackman, the Kentucky native eschewed a traditional rollout and went underground. But music isn't the only thing on making noise. He recently starred in the remake to the 1992 classic, White Men Can't Jump. From the penthouse of the 21C hotel in Louisville, Jack speaks on his latest project, props from Kendrick Lamar, Machine Gun Kelly diss, Drake, state of music, and much more. #JackHarlow #KendrickLamar #MachineGunKelly
#WhiteMenCantJump #Drake #JackMan

Yeah, wrapper our podcast, Eliot Wilson, my name is beat that beat up. What's up baby?

Yo? I'm right? No, actually I'm not all right. I'm kind of mad at you.

Oh Man. What happened?

Man? Where you mad to be?

Man?

How you stick off to London without me?

Hey?

Man?

You started it? Man, you told you're old Jay. We had to go check him on the road.

Man.

He started what he did his uh Paris show? Maybe he did the activation with Louis Vaitan. Yeah, the show.

You said you were gonna go out there, man, and then you flaked on us. Man, we didn't go and then we looked bad and big hombie's eyes. So I was like, I had to make it right. Man had to pull up at that be concert. Man had to bring the wife heat up, saying London town.

Man, I was with.

You the day, Brian. All of a sudden, I look online. I'm like, yo, what.

Paul McCartney and Sir Paul I fanned out when I met Sir Paul b I ain't gonna hold you man, Sir Paul.

Man, come on, man, the guy's eighty years old.

Man, he's crispy out here, but he's the kid He's a legend, man, Sir Paul.

The Yellow Submarine meets the Yellow Nigga.

Oh Man, easy easy, Man. It was Interval Presents manby Easy Easy.

Now.

But it was amazing, man, Thanks Soul for the hospitality. Man, Me and the wife had a great time and then b Man. You know, the show lives up to the hype. I will say that, Man, the show lives up to the hype. Man, Beyonce, this is the best Beyonce tour I've seen. You know, she doesn't just power ballot it out. She gives you the renaissance album like it's a party.

Man. You don't want it to end. Man, it's a great vibe.

Man. So you're telling me I got to catch on a city near me.

Huh yo.

When it comes to the States, Man, you gotta take a wife or something. I don't know what you're gonna do. Man, you gotta take a lady friend. Man, you know what I'm saying. You got your daughter.

Maybe you know we'll see you know, but you gotta definitely support man. You gotta support it.

You gotta make something happen back, but we.

Made something happen man before I was in London. Man, you know what was that be that I was in Louisville, Baby, Louisville.

We was in Louisville, man.

Yeah, man, all we gotta say it right. No, I got it wrong. Now wait, I'm saying that like I have, saying it right in front of Jack.

How do you say it again? Louisville, Louisville like that, not Louisville. You gotta drop your voice. That's how they say it down there in Kentucky.

Man. Yo, we went all the way to Kentucky to speak to the boy Jack Hollow. Isn't that amazing?

Man?

I mean, he wasn't doing any press. I'm really honest for us to be able to sit with him, because you know, he wasn't really talking. He has the movie out, he has the album out, jack Man. So that was my first time there and it was really an experience for sure.

Yeah.

Man, Shout out his management, shout out his publicist, shout out to Big Jack himself.

Man.

Like he said, the Jackman album, he wanted that to come out. You know, people said he kind of went a little commercial with the last album. He dropped that jack Man kind of roar hip hop, and he didn't want to even speak about it. But you know, we finally convinced him. He got the White Man Can't Jump movie out and he was like, yo, we.

Just wrap right up. Man with a trust his face.

If you're going to talk about this, Brian Bett, Miller, Elliott Wilson, those are the guys.

You need to talk to.

Absolutely man. So that was my first time interviewing him as well.

I think he was revealing honest and I think he wants it more than more people give him credit for.

You know, like he wants absolutely absolutely.

He's driven, man. He's a driven dude. Man. He loves hip hop. He's dedicated.

It was great, you know, it was just amazing to really soak it up, and I think you got left beat town beat out. I was able to actually go to the movie premiere that night and he had like the Governor of Kentucky was there and stuff like the love he gets in the city. Man, you can see it, man, he says to the hometown pride, hometown hero.

You know, it's great to see somebody really putting on for the city.

I always think it's dope when a person comes from a small city blows up and comes back. You know, you like with j Cole and you've seen it with others and you know Jack is no exception.

And that's the thing you podcast is. Man, We rap it on. You know how we do. We ain't scared to go nowhere, man, buddapet hungry. We'll go anywhere. Toronto, Canada, Love Kentucky. It ain't nothing but a flight. Man. You gotta go out and get these stories. Man.

You want to talk to these artists, You gotta make them feel comfortable. Sometimes you got to go to their environment. Man, show that respect, you know.

Yeah, get your sky miles up.

Man. We'll get your ears up, man, and enjoy the audio.

Man.

Video will be available the next day. Man, this is a very special one.

Man.

We set it off with toil to create it. The reaction has been crazy. This is the second one. We ain't stopping no time soon.

Man.

This is our got Jack hollow Man, Jack Man.

Want to rap rate our podcasts?

Yeah, rap raid on podcast. That's what it was. Beat Elliott Wilson were in Kentucky with the man. See if I get it right, Jack, tell me if I get it right. Louisville nailed it. Yeah, Louisville welcome. You gotta do it like that because we.

Say Louisville's flying out the first.

Time in Louisville. Yeah, why you ain't doing no press for this album?

Man?

Why why you gave us the honor of sitting with us? Man? We appreciate that, man, jack Man.

This album is about rap, and I know y'all want to talk hip hop so much. The press I do is spread.

They want to talk about the movie, which is Wonder Football. I don't want to talk about the movie. WHI y'all want to talk about rap, and so I was thinking of hip hop when I made this album, so I wanted to do an interview with.

Hip hop folks. But other than that, I want to let the music speak.

Yeah, most people weren't expecting to return this fast following the last project. Man, no rollout, no radio single, no promo, Like, why was that your approach this time around?

There's just so much music right now, as y'all know, And I was just I don't want to I don't want to try to create something. I just want to give them where I'm at right now, because it may not be where I'm at in six months. So I said, let's go right now. I can't lie, I guess I just wanted to pledge allegiance to the genre a little bit.

I don't know.

I just wanted to take all the frills off and just say here rap you.

Think some of the some of the album to come home with kids miss you. The commercial success misconstrued.

I felt, Yeah, I love that album, and I think I always will. I see a lot of redeeming qualities in that album. I had so much fun making it. And you don't always get points for how much fun you have, but I had a lot of fun making it. But I definitely afterwards spent some time feeling a bit misunderstood, which is okay. That's not the worst way to live your life. It's okay to be misunderstood. But I felt misunderstood, as so many artists have and continue to and I'll probably feel misunderstood stood again soon. But I just wanted to fucking say my piece.

I just wanted to do it.

I just wanted to do it my way this time.

And you said your piece like under thirty minutes. It's an easy listen to.

It's like only ten tracks as opposed to the other projects to have fourteen fifteen.

Did you want to make it that tight and concise.

Concise is a great word. That's exactly what I want to I didn't want to waste the line. I didn't want some bridge to just make the song longer. It's like I saw no reason to add anything that wasn't cruise, so every line mattered to me. I didn't set out like, yo, let's make a short ass album. It ended up short, and I'm like, why we don't need to And there's three songs with three verses, which is unheard of. It's still the songs are still. I'm giving as much as I can, but I don't like making songs longer to make them longer, So if they end up short, they end up short.

But you know what I like about the album is like it's an easy listen in one sense, but in some ways it isn't where it's like you hit the ground with common ground and it's a short record, like run it back and it's wait a minute, he said a lot of shitness Right now, I gotta go back and really dissect the Bar's like he made a lot of strong statements in this one record, Like this one record is a lot like was that your purpose?

Also, it's like pack with a lot of messaging in it.

Yeah, there's just so many vibes right now, there's so many just vibes and mood music that, like I think on Come Home, I was so focused on ear candy. It was like literally a phrase I was using in the studio concert. I remember telling the producers. I was like, Yo, every beat you make, I need you to imagine there's a girl sitting shotgun with you in the car. She needs to like it. And I let go of that. This time it was like, let's make this about just statements. I let go of like my tone being as soothing as it could be, and I was like, Yo, just wrap because it's just so much music. So I felt say something.

I don't know.

I just I wanted to say something. There's a middle ground you can strike. There's a balance you can strike where you can have it ear candy and say something. I'm not saying you can't, but for me, it was just like, funck the ear candy, fuck the vibes. Let me just say a few things on my mind and get right to it. I think people are craving that a little bit is get right to it. What are you trying to say?

So?

What are you trying to say with common ground because to me it feels like it's like an indictment of like white privilege right to a certain extent.

Yeah, I suppose, So I'll be hesitant to create a synopsis for any of these tracks. I'd rather continue to leave them up for interpretation. But more than anything like, it's like I said at the beginning of the record, I'm just painting a picture of what I see is what I'm observing in society and culture right now. And I didn't necessarily promise like a payoff or a like, and here's what comes because of that. It's, hey, here's some of what I'm saying. And sometimes I think just painting a picture. I'm literally just painting something. I'm saying, that's how you take it, is how you take it, how you feel about it. I wasn't even scolding it. I wasn't even saying this is horrible. That's kind of what I didn't want to do on this album, is like say this is what I think is bad, and this is what I think is good. I'm not interested in right or wrong right now, Like it's not super interesting to me. It's more here's a picture. You decide like, I'm not here to tell people how to feel. I'm just painting something.

You definitely got your shit off too, Like one of the lyrics that stood out to me was like kind of standing Serban Suburban kids growing up wanted to be raped journalists, right, urban myths about who do you think the best urban kid is?

It felt very specific.

Do you feel like those are the people that are like critiquing your music unfairly?

I don't think anyone's being unfair. Everyone probably ideally it is just writing from their heart. If we're lucky. I definitely think there's it's like really self righteous condescension, just in journalism in general. But of course look at the side. I'm the artist, so I'm looking over at them like it's just what it is. I was definitely venting right there, but it goes beyond me, Like I just feel like, I don't know, it's just irritating when you are putting yourself out there and then people are making a living off of critiquing you. Putting yourself out there. Put yourself out there, motherfucker. That's how we all feel, right, It's natural. Everybody's working.

I think another takeaway I got from common grind as you talk about the differences between suburban communities and the urban community communities, Like, when did you realize like the playing field wasn't leveled? How do you mean just like growing up, you know, with being here in Kentucky, or just like in just life in general, when you realize there are some disproportionate Yeah, I mean I.

Went to public school, so I went to school with a lot of black kids that were from the other side of town. Didn't take long in probably the elementary school, you start to realize, Oh, they're living a little differently from me because I grew up in a great neighborhood, like in a very unique neighborhood. I grew up in a peaceful place. But I was going to school with a lot of kids that were from the other side of town. So I think you just start to Yeah, I don't think it takes much to realize that some people are from worse situations than you. But I don't know if I hadn't gone to public school, I don't know if I could be a compelling Yeah.

That's why going toad, they don't love it, And that's pretty much the big statement. That's only song you shot a video for Do you think that's really what it's about. It's like, when you look at this game five years in, you see how competitive it gets. Do you really think it comes down to believe me the best, which is what you want to be. You have to have that drive, you have to have that dedication.

Yeah.

I think you have to have a passion, and I think you have to be a fan. You have to be a fan of the genre and love it. I love the craft. I love chasing getting better, coming off or come home like. Of course, there's some frustrations with not feeling understood, but it's also exciting to think, Okay, let me see how I can get better. I don't think it's the worst thing in the world for people to say you have room to improve, Okay, let's get after it.

How of all of the DJ drama, Don Cannon on this.

Project spiritually heavily.

I mean, I was really excited to play them the music, but I did a lot of it on my own, kind of remotely. Cannon's always a mentor for me. We talk hip hop, but of course there was just a lot of excitement in recording the songs and thinking, damn, I can't wait for them to hear this shit because I know they're going to like it, and sure enough it resonated. I don't know I feel a kinship to them, but I did. I picked the beats, I spent those times. There's a lot of solitude on this project.

So they didn't know that you were creating this project.

They knew I was in the studio, but we didn't.

We weren't planning.

All right, let's get a ten track concise.

You know you was ready to go, go like you yeah.

And we all agreed together, let's go.

I don't know. It's exciting, man, like fuck, Like I played it by the book so much last year, I did it right. I did the press run, I created moments, and this time around us just enjoy give them the music. I don't give a fuck what comes with it. Let's just give them the music.

Like you said, two weeks to pass, and I just want to say the loveness back that I felt from not only my peers, but from all the fans, the folks that have supported me from the beginning. It feels amazing. I never felt so connected to the people listening to my music.

Thank you. What's bied you to say that I.

Just have been getting messages and running into people on the street, and I think one thing I wanted to get back to, man, not that it was gone, but like as much as I enjoy like young teenage screams, there is something so exciting about somebody coming up to you and say, Yo, your shit is fucking dope. You know what I'm saying. And I'm not saying one's better than the other, but I think for this album, like I was really excited about the idea that some dude will come up to me that loves rap and says, Yo, I just listened to your album and it was phenomenal. I felt it like that's really what we do it for. That's why I got started. It's just so a motherfucker would tell me I'm dope. That's the best feeling in the world. And fucking I ran into Kendrick at the met and it was like a few days after the album dropped, and he was like, Yo, like it's the best move you could have made. This is incredible, and just give me enough props. I could have just fucking walked home. I didn't even want to meet anyone else.

I was.

It's like one of the best, one of the best feelings and saw Tyler he said something similar. All the people I respect have been giving me that had tip and that is so gratifying. That's so great. It's not the only thing we do it for, but it's a huge thing. Is just I just wanted to be an EMC on this album.

When we first heard it, me and Ellie were going back and forth. So it feels like an Album of the Year contender. I hit Jason and Drama and Cam y'all, I think you got one with this one.

Right, thank you, thank you.

In a lot of ways, it almost.

Felt like a debut or felt like what they say, a mixtape, because it's just like the autistic freedom right can you speak to that? Did you feel like I may approach it like a mixtape? Per ses then out of an album.

I just been feeling like, I just want to remind motherfuckers how I got here. I didn't. I didn't get here because girls liked me, or because I'm funny or charismatic, Like why did I get in the door because I can fucking rap? That's really what it was at the other day, and I just I wanted to get back to that recording this album, I felt like a young, hungry rapper, and so I saw no reason to steer from that. I think come Home. I was trying to make a song for everyone. I was trying to just trying to bite off the entire world, like just grab everyone, cast the biggest possible net I could cause. And this time I was like, I have one mission, like I just want to wrap the chorus comes. But at the end of the day, I just want to tell stories. And I don't reconnect with why I got into hip hop. It's difference between entertainment and pop culture and then hip hop. Like this was for hip hop.

Why do you think your dedications with that? Why do you think that ended up being.

Was there a moment where you was like, this really is what I want to do for the rest of my life.

This is what it is. I don't know.

It's funny a lot of those I told you. I ordered a bunch of double ex cells, and I think I was just reading old interviews. Y'all put Eminem on the cover every month.

It's so jack I gantee.

I was reading a lot. I was reading a lot of.

Eminem interviews, and I remember I was reading this one section I should posted the section, and there was this whole columns that is Eminem bad for hip hop and y'all had some of the biggest rappers in the game. Answer, Oh yeah, jay Z give jay Z gave him.

I said, with Steve Stout and he's watched this. Nobody else could do this. And he called Nash and j had beef. He called Nas and he gave him answer. I saw them and nobody else could get these guys on the phone. So I read that Steve Stouts each one of these.

Everyone was like, fuad hip hop. He's dopest ship. And that's what connected with me, is he's dopest ship. At the end of the day, if you can rap, what else are we talking about. We're not perfect. He made a few mistakes in his career. Sure I forgot about some of them. I had to read those magazines. But it don't fucking matter because he can rap his ass off. So I said, I just had a moment.

He was like, just rap.

There's so many things. You could try to be everything, but at the end of the days, this one I just wanted to wrap.

But you did say you're the hardest white boy since Eminem. And then so people got in their feelings. MGK got his feelings and no response like are you gonna clap back in him lyrically? Is there a surprise you that people responding? I saw you have to put up an execs actually a show a prove of mac Miller. So you have all these recipes mac Miller fans who was like, not mac Miller, blah blah.

I know you didn't mean to offend any of those people.

It's like, when you make a statement like that on some EMC level of I'm the best, how everybody reacts to in this modern era?

How do you take that in?

How do you take it out? I guess you just fucking take it.

And I don't know.

It's interesting. I think everyone is entitled to their opinion. And I feel great about what I said, and I feel great about the reaction.

It's just what it just wanted to stir it up in a little bit like not.

Even It's like it was a stream of consciousness sort of verse. And not that I don't stand on my statement, but it's just I'm an MC shit like it's not just ain't a new concept to feel yourself? You know what I'm saying. I feel no reservations about what was said at all.

Well, you're going back to the met gallon real quick. You gotta solve the mystery for all of us. We see all y'all dressing nicely at the met galley. Everything's fly? Is there anything going on the side? What is inside? Do you get food? Do you get to eat? Do you get to talk to people? What goes on inside the met galla?

Jallow? Can you solve that mystery? Follow us?

Has anyone ever spoken on it? Okay?

Good?

I'm not going to.

Gotta keep some things close to the chest. I like going, so you know that, keep man, keep it to the chest. Man.

Speaking of the chest album cover chest, you know, I mean where was that shot?

Topless?

Topless?

That was then alley way behind my middle school that I walked down every day while I was with all my homeboys, or we'd walk to Your Ecstasy, a local record store, and I bought Thank Me Later Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy up there, and so those were just like my primitive MC years. I used to shoot music videos in that exact alley on a little fucking flip camera. There's a lot of history in that alley. I don't know. To me, it just represented going back to I did the whole album out here. I did the whole album in Louisville, so I wanted to cover to reflect where my heart is.

It seems like to me, listen to the album, you have these moments of celebrity fatigue, right like, move back to Louisville. You know you don't want to do press to your publicist, Jason, here we are here, we are all right, Thank you, Jason?

Is that am of like where your mind is right now?

I just want to get back to to the small town.

I love being home, and at the end of the day, I think you go towards where you feel love. And I feel so much love here, And I don't know, I spent almost every day on the road last year, so I think I just had an appetite for being home. I feel so connected to the city. As I've said a million times, I don't want to beat a dead horse, like on some self pity like being celebrity stuff, because it's a fucking I'm blessed. But so here's what it is. I've been rambling. Here's what it really is. If I could distill it down, I've been exposed to the illusions of what is supposed to make me happy, and I think a lot of people get exposed to, like what you're supposed to do, buy a house in the hills. We go to the club, and I think, I'm like, I've just got all the illusions out of the way, and I'm deciding for myself what makes me happy. And that's what is that I is about? Is that whole song is about. I don't need to be told what to do with my time, money and platform. I'm just gonna go towards what actually excites me. And I find that my preference is to be here, So I'm gonna be here and tell my preferences to be elsewhere. I'm gonna spend my time. I want to spend my time, and I'm gonna do press when I'm ready to do press. Because I'm not a total introvert. I'm not a hermit. I'm not on some frank gas and ship. But there's times you want to be seen and there's times you don't.

Do you really have ten girlfriends?

That's one of my least favorite lines too. Really, I just didn't change it because it felt so good sonically, Like it's just like yeah, that flows like I knew people would feel it, but by the time the album came out, I was out of a space where I wanted to talk about a ton of women. I don't know. Yeah, that line's cool, but that ain't the line that I'm like, Damn, I talked about ship right there. There's so many other lines, and.

We talk about let's talk about some of those lines. What stands out to you that's you're product.

The line right before that, no airports and no flights is how I want to live my life? Is that all? It almost feels rhetorical because it's not all right, You're gonna have to get on a few flights, but for me, it's like, how few flights can I get on right now? That's what I mean so much to me that y'all would come here because one of the things I've discovered is I love routine. I don't want to escape routine, and being on the road, routine does not exist for the most part for you.

So I don't know.

We could go through every song and there's lines that I'm like, I can't wait for my grandkids to hear that, because that's exactly how it felt.

There's also a lot of concepts on the project too, Like when that stood out was gang Gang Gang, it's really dark, Like what's the inspiration behind that track?

The inspiration is exactly what the song is about, and experiencing different variations of that personally of just friendships that go left because decisions. The real question of the song is how deep does your loyalty go? It's something we as men, we always are talking loyalty. If everyone's always somebout how down for each other they are. And I guess I just wanted to heard the beat shout out a shad incredible beat. I guess I just wanted to flip the concept of being down for my gang on its head. See how far that stretches?

And what are those real life situations inspired by changing the names and stuff.

Changing a lot?

Those are stories. Those stories aren't necessarily from my direct life, but they were inspired by things I've seen and gone through. But sons of variation.

But then, don't blame on me.

You have me scratching my head because it's three different perspectives you're talking from, like your older brother, your younger brother, into your unborn child, but you only have one brother in real life, though.

Right, it's a little brother, the older brother, and then it's the dad.

Yeah, the verse the father I have.

Yeah, yeah, that's why a third verse starts off, you grew up in my household like he owns the house.

Okay, that feel they do that record? This seems like so personal to families, Like you said, this is the album of a bar fools up. But it's like there are actually really deep personal songs on there too.

Yeah to me, those aren't those don't kids each other out? To me, Bar and people up is can be conceptual and storytelling and personal. Like when I think Bars, I think I've stopped when I think Bars, I've stopped thinking Braggadocio. Not that Braggadosio isn't Bars, but I've stopped thinking strictly. It's about hitting your chest. To me, Bars is the royal truth, just compelling statements.

Yeah, how did that feel? Did you play that for your family?

And I didn't want them blind sided? And yeah, they took it really well. My family took it really well and understood the picture I was trying to paint. I mean, that's home. That's the one I've seen connect with the people.

You understand, Blame on me it's accountability, right, It's just like people in this area, you know what's really going on and how do we address it? Because especially your family, sometimes you don't say the tough stuff like you said. The fact that power you always keep saying, I'm terrified like to speak on this is the so much power in that.

Yeah, so much goes on set, right, I think everyone. It started off with just the first verse a sibling song, and then I was like, Okay, let me see if we can tell it from another perspective, and then slowly it evolved into we may as well bring fatherhood into this, so I just try to make it. I tried to stretch it as far as I could because everyone has something with their family. Yeah, everyone has a spot that if you just hit tears and fallout.

Because I'm the oldest in my family, so I feel like that could relate to you. It's like the father puts the pressure on you. It's because you represent a lot of his dreams or his view of things, and it's like being the oldest, you carry that weight. I have two younger brothers. You inherit that and there's always that that toughness between your father. If you're the oldest child.

Sometimes you can load itis you unloaded. Yeah, yeah, it's a heavy one.

I'm literally Elliott Jr. I don't put that on.

I think you've lived up to it.

Man, thank you, thank you. I appreciate when we talk about family. Man, we can't not talk about your mom. Man, Like she's been a big fello up in the video. Yeah, man, she introduced you to rat Like, what does she think about the Jack Hall of Success?

She's fucking loving it, man, I can't lie. She's a big participant in consumer in and she keeps up. But she's just an overall incredible woman. Everyone that meets my mom is just captivated. My mom is incredible, and she's helped me start a foundation out here and such, her heart's just in a phenomenal place. It's just a hard working, ambitious woman of her own.

Like Elliott alluded to, Like in the Churchhill Downs video, she's in there. I love that scene at the end.

She's like the fuck, Like, how manyful was it to.

Have her in the video and to shoot that video in Louisville at Churchhill's Downs during the Kentucky Louisville beat that Louisville it makes get it over.

How beautiful was that.

It was one of the best days of my life. Man, it was one of the best days of my life. So fulfilling to bring my hero to my hometown.

About the boy, Drake, that.

Was totally impropt to that scene with my mom, and I'm pretty protective over my family, but that was just moments. Yeah, it feels right, it feels great at least shoot it. And then we watched it and it's pretty much everyone's favorite scene, so incredible.

If you'd like to be one of the lines about being friends with your heroes, Drake, somebody, I think I saw something you said.

Drake.

Since I was in sixth grade, best I ever had came out. He's been that forced and the culture, but I didn't want to give it up. What is it like to acknowledge that, but then also to get to know him and be a true friend and make songs with him.

I told you about the Kendrick moment, and then I'm way closer to Drake at this point. I've only met Kendrick a couple of times, and shit like that, Shit like both of those situations and so many others that I've had the privilege of experiencing Those are the moments where you're like, oh, yeah, I'm fucking blessed. I'm living the life I fantasized about a decade ago. You know what I'm saying, Like, any of my time with Drake is like precious to me because it's a dream of just chopping it up with him, much less doing a song and feeling validated by him, but just being able to chop it with him and have free conversation. And he had heroes of his own. You know what I'm saying, that's the cycle. That's what we all like, that's what we all dream exactly, and that's what we all that's what we all dream of. I'd like to think, is that chance to get to know the people that drove you to the spot, because before all this they're just damn their figmancy your imagination almost and they're just mythical figures. So to really meet him is a good Lord. I don't know. I'm not a nostalg the junkie though, so I always think full circle. I always think to eleven year old me and think, wow, we did.

It on Churchill Downs.

You gcluded to it as well, Like how you did you feel like there was pressure to match the success of Little Uzi.

Fort was also on the Generation That label.

A little bit, but really it was just like I showed up and Vert was the talk of the label, much less the end of street. And it was just like he was making Lake Drama and Cannon. He was bringing in the.

Cash, and so to a life is a big.

I'm walking into the studio every night and his plaques are linked and always just looking up at him, like jeez, I gotta get up there.

It's funny because I know, like you joined, you got with drama, and it's like working a Chick fil a one minute, next thing. You run around with drama here in Atlanta, and we would see you.

You always just roll.

You play the back. That's part of the culture. You play in the back. You're observing, you wait for your time. Can you talk about those days and what are some memories that really stand out to you? Playing the back with drama, just getting into these rooms and like observing what's going on.

I mean, it was a good rhythm because I was still growing into myself, my confidence and how I wanted to look. I had who I was figured out a long time before I had how I want to look figured out. I think I almost neglected my appearance because I was so in touch with who I was inside and authentically, so I think it was it's like I hit puberty late because it was like, Okay, maybe I should clean up a little bit. So I think during those years I was figuring myself out, figuring out who I was in those rooms, because it's one thing to know who you are in your bedroom alone, but ideally it's the same thing. But no matter what, you walk into a room and there's just dynamics and you figure, Okay, what's my presence in And I had to grow into kind of hold my nuts and like really being like I belong. So I'm not mad at the time at all, but there was a lot of doubts, a lot of insecurity on the way up, a lot of is this ever gonna happen?

Yeah?

But piece by piece.

I think that's the ill part about your success is that we've seen it in real time, Like there wasn't no shortcuts. So the early interviews, the big curly frow.

Some I'm super proud, right, that doesn't ask you that you proud of that? I think only probably you and Meek Mill. Really you can see a lot of videos of y'all younger and like really see the growth of evolution of the person. Like it's very rare to see that, like those awkward years and just developments there.

It makes me. Some of it makes me cringe naturally, like the way anyone cringing old photos of themselves, But like big picture, I'm so proud that it's documented, you know what I'm saying, like a symptom of the era we grew up in. It was so easy to upload music. I was uploading music in the blog era, but I was just twelve years old.

Balls he wasn't ready and that evolution, like he talked about that and ambitious, like how you open up festivals at one pm? Like or you said in the previous interview, were like how you are afraid of doing empty shows because you've done so many. I saw a picture a couple of years ago that you posted on Twitter. You were performing in Birmingham, Alabama in front of thirteen people.

What is that? What are those experiences?

Like just totally emasculating, fucking It's a tough one, but it's why I'd like to think I'm pretty comfortable on stage now because I felt those feelings. You're not shit. I repeatedly felt, you know you're not shit. You might rap like and you might think you're on your way, but you still ain't there, and that's humbling, but it prepares you. And now when there's twenty thousand people in front of me, like, it ain't nothing.

You said that line about this because the one You're really very facetious, Like, is it because I'm white?

It's because whatever it it's because I make eye contacts.

Talk about that it's performing, Like, why is it important to be able to make eye contact with the audience at times?

Oh? No, it just feels good to target a person and walk in with them. I think it's a sense of intimacy. It's just, yeah, I see you, and I've been seeing you all night, spent every fucking lyric on this set, and it means a lot to me. So let's share this moment together because we both loved this part.

Yeah, I know it's sick.

It was dope scene.

You share that moment with Brandy Last year at the BT Awards, she came out during first class?

Was it your idea to have a rhyme with you?

Definitely wanted her out there. I think Rhyman was her idea, we're mad at it. I thought she was going to sing, but she was on a rap. I don't know if she was in an MC space last year, and I was.

Like, so, what was that like? Connection like when you first.

Met weird because the negative to a positive basically, Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. We met up and she's I love you, We're all good.

Squash the bee for Brandy.

Yeah, the beef for squashed immediately made me wonder if there was ever beef. Yeah, it's all love with her. We're entertainers. Luckily we got some organic moments out of that where we were actually able to share a smile and get to know each other briefly. But at the end of the day were like the Showman ship, let's fucking do something they wouldn't expect.

I definitely wasn't expecting to see you on the big screen Man White Man.

Can't Joe at the time of this right now? The movies? Yeah, it least tomorrow.

Yeah, how do you feel like a couple hours away from you you had a real movie, Jack Hollow, what the fus going on? Something going on in the movie.

How does that feel?

I don't know it feels normal.

Was it something that you aspired? Was that point out of it too, Like I might see your music drive, but.

I always was.

I always in the back of my mom was like, I'd like to do some acting because I like to play pretend, I like to lie. And then I was so focused on this rap shit. It's like, if the opportunity presents itself, and then sure enough it did. We're getting a lot of energy from that side of entertainment and something I want to continue to chase. So it's definitely exciting, really grateful, really loved working with everyone on the set. Sinqua. My acting coach, Lee is incredible cow maatic who comes from hip hop, so we were able to speak a language. I had a great time shooting it, and it came right after Come Home came out, So I think it was a necessary escape for me to get into another medium in a world of people that didn't even like may not even even listen to the album. You know what I'm saying. Just we're totally focused on this mission. It really could give a fuck about my success. Wow, and hip hop is Hey, we're here shooting a movie and you're just another team player.

Be on top.

Yeah, very interesting from going from being in charge almost all the time. Yeah, you don't charge at all.

Did you have any like trepidation about remaking such a classic movie, No Woody and Wesley Man Pressure Man sequels.

Yeah, it's almost like there is no pressure surrounding it through reality obviously, I see the talk fuck another reboot. But nobody gives a ship. I'm saying, even the people complaining don't give a ship. It's just like just getting through their day. Nobody gives a shit about anything.

Maybe they do for a short time.

That's that's not giving a ship, you know what I'm saying. Nobody gives a ship.

Right.

That's the one thing I'm like growing to learn is like everybody either has everybody has something to do or they're looking for something to do, and sometimes that results in comments. But nobody cares about anything.

Maybe the real estate. Very few things really we really truly care about. When he cuts through the bullshit, like, there's very few things that we truly and you.

Are talking about it. What people are talking about doesn't reflect what they actually care about. What they're like up a bet up at night. Nobody's up at night, fuck, bro, they're remaking White Men, bro. Nobody is like tossing and turning, like how could they fuck with a classic like this?

What are you doing that?

It's like, yeah, it's a fucking classic. We love the movie, all right, let's keep moving. Damn nobody cares.

Yeah, You're not the only in the movie. You got Vince Staples in there as well.

Fucking Hello a guy.

Yeah, man, how was it having another rap on set with you?

Comforting? But I'm a Vince fan.

Hello, Vince is still young.

But Summertime those six came out when I was midway through high school, and anyone that really listens to my music knows I love that type of production, like that West Coast influence tempo, a lot of that far real Timbland influence. Ship and Summertime I six is one of my favorite albums. Ever, Vince is still it. But I'm looking at him like, Yo, you mean the world to me. And I know every rapper says that to each other when they run into each other. I was like, listen, you mean a lot to me and me and events clicked immediately.

Great guy, Ever, Moona Park broke my heart. The best albums like Last Year, Man, He's excellent.

Yeah, okay, give me that though, give me one of the any five favorite personal great hip hop albums to Jack Hollow ever, yeah, they don't have to be like people's listen more but personally connect you personally connected?

Yeah, Lay Registration Quemini nothing was the same.

It was a classics more two more Yeah, lay Registration of Cumine nothing, what's the same?

Getting I wrapped it on beat Out, turning up podcasts.

I love Oh okay, you know the album I love with fish Ride Bicycles by the Cool Kids.

That's definitely ball era.

Yeah, classic album and bakes. I love the cool Kids. Cool Kids get me like all that bounce and tempo that. I like all that smooth ship to me. I like beats to feel like they're not going like this. I like beats that are going in the circle that Yeah.

Yeah, that's a good five.

Yeah.

But do you think so like Lay Registration, that's your YAY album, that's equiminized, your outcast album, Blue Pressure j album.

I would say so. I would definitely say so. Yeah, y'all got my gears turning.

Your basketball ties do Run Deep even named the song after Miami heat star hero did your jump Shot? Really improve after doing the after what after doing the record with having him in the video and just doing the record named after him.

Hell no, my jump shot improved a lot after this movie. I had a trainer I worked with and he reconstructed my ship.

Okay, see you nice? Right now, you want to play j cole one on one? You got him?

Yeah, let's do it. You guys are both in the Celebrity All Star Games. Not at the same time, but yeah, I think he dunked in one.

He did catch a dunk. I think it was all Yeah.

That was bizarre. You had a full point about ten years ago. I love do you feel?

Are you a competitive guy?

Extremely?

Like if I play you in a video game, you lose, you like throw the controller to the side.

I won't throw it. I'm good at masking my anger because I don't want people to know how I feel. But I desperately want to win everything. I play soccer every week.

And yeah, so you talk about that soccer because you tease it in the video a little bit, so you're serious about it.

We just want our rec League championship. A couple of nights ago, right about this album, the movie.

That's really what it is. Soccer champion Jack Hollow with some respect on it.

So we play every week with a bunch of guys played in college.

Or how does the kid in Louisville give it to soccer like this?

I'm still white, brother, I don't believe it, but the white folks in Louisville play soccer.

I can't do Louisville without saying Louisville like this.

I gotta stop doing Louisville.

Is that? Is it a popular sport out here?

I think soccer is the most popular sport on earth. It is as yeah, yeah, people play soccer out here. Okay, cool, people play soccer out here.

See, you're nice with it, You're a good soccer player.

I'm straight. I just want to win. I'm not concerned with the stats I put up. I'm not concerned with looking good. And this goes for basketball, any sport. I play almost any activity. I just want to win. I don't care about teammates, Sean. I want to walk away and say we won and you lost. That that feels great to me. So I'm not a skills player. I'll put my shoulder into somebody and I'll run really hard. I'm an effort guy.

Same with basketball rebound pay. So what does like a w look like in the movie world for you?

I guess an oscar, right, But.

For the success of White Men Can't Jump? Do you care if it like goes number one at the box office? You care about people come to your street, Like, what does that look like to you?

Yeah?

All that would be nice, but it's all just byproducts. That's not why we do it. But all of it will be nice.

I would love that number one album, number one movie, some Jennifer Lopez ship.

Yeah. I try not to get too wrapped up and all that stuff, but it's all feels good. Yeah, I'd love it.

Were you bummed when you didn't win the Grammy?

No, I wasn't bummed.

Yeah, it will come. Time will come.

He was in the building though, you used yeah to you about it, right, He was like, no, I'm sorry, sorry, I'm going to.

Be sorry about yeah the company enough was like it'selt really good. No, I hardly felt a way. My heart was beating on my chest. In case they fucked around and said, I wont.

Did you feel when you put out Jackman?

Like it doesn't matter about out sales or Grammy nominations like this is just where I'm at right now. Like you said, I gotta get my shit off, and I got motherfuckers know my dedication to this, And I.

Just think you gotta be careful about not getting too wrapped up in because we get placed into a bubble within the industry and so suddenly you find yourself interacting with nothing but peers, executives and number crunchers, and you like, if you're not careful, you forget there's human beings that are listening to your music. That's what really drives it. So I just all I really cared about was the connection with the fans and them feeling like there was no filter between how I felt and what I was giving to them. So this album was totally for my fans and for hip hop lovers.

Yeah, you mentioned Kendrick and Taler giving you praise. Was there anybody like outly that surprised you, that reached out to you about the album and really gave you your props on it.

Nobody's surprising. Yeah, nobody's surprising. Really, it's hard to recall, but people from all walks of life. I think it's connected with the human spirit. I think vulnerability people connected with I think honesty people appreciate right now, people want honesty. They don't have patience for anything but the truth. Yeah, hip hop's in a weird space right now. Man, I'm sure y'all speak on it. It's in a very interesting space. So I was just trying to make something that was as rooted in hip hop as possible because it's evolving. I'm not gonna attach Like I said about the music, I'm not gonna attach a good or bad too it. It's just it's interesting.

Yeah. Also, me and me not talked about before you came in.

It's just like it's with such a challenge in this era to not only gain interest but sustain interest as a hip hop artist.

Is that kind of somewhat what you're speaking about.

I guess. I just mean, I don't know how much people value music at this moment. I just don't know. I'm not saying I know. I'm saying I don't know. I don't know. I don't know where hip it's in a really interesting space that they were seeing right now, we're seeing a ship. We're in the middle of a big shift.

But it's funny because we always talk about vcs, this dynamic of we don't say you come from the Araweth. There's the big Free, there's a Drake, Kendrick, Cole, right, and then some artists shy away from I'm going to be the next leader in that space and some don't. I feel like you always say you want to be that person, you want to be a leader in that Is that still where your mind's that of Like.

Yeah, absolutely, I definitely yearned for that type of influence, but it's something that people knight you for, you know what I'm saying. So you have to be compelling and you have to reach for it. And that's what I guess I mean by people are like, who's the next big three? But the game may be evolving to a place where it doesn't fit the same format as that time, and what people want is changing with the youth. Wants is changing, and it's almost like Drake, Kendrick and Cole, their voices are damn near nostalgic.

At this point.

We know this is good because this is from the days where things were a little better, you know what I'm saying, Like you hear Drake's voice come on in the club, and like it almost reminds you of twenty twelve, which was a great time. Remind you of twenty sixteen. This is a great time. And so it's almost like the history of the Big Three continues to rain on because of what they've already done, what they've already accomplished, is like, well, we know we're getting some good shit from women. It's why you see people go back and then instead of banging new shit, they're listening to Forest Hills Driver, they're listening to Late Registration. It's almost like we're living in a time where people don't feel like this era is special enough to stamp anything as timeless are classic, as if the timas in classic shit it already happened. We can't get any new timas in classic.

I feel like they never claimed the album's classic since Good Kid, Mass City conversation has never been about this is a classic album.

Clearing his last album is like.

It's almost like we're living in the future. Bro, Yeah, and everyone's this may be a naive take. In twenty years, maybe we'll be looking at right now and be like, look at all this classic shit that's being mad right now. But it's almost like we're living in the future because everyone is just so into the nostalgia of it all. They're so into the Golden era, and it's almost like we've passed it so much that people are like, we're not going to stamp anything from right now because right now it's not even a special.

Times, not enough times, not enough time.

Yeah, it's just it's not even I don't know, it's really it's actually a struggle for me to articulate a little bit. No, I think you're doing a good job. I guess what I'm saying is I think Scorpion is going to be a classic. Just so you know, I think like these albums as time passes.

It's just different.

It's just how it is. It's just how it fucking is. I just feel like right now, almost on some post pandemic shit. I was talking to John Mayer about this, about how culture so fragmented. Artists put out music and the artist's job is to respond or comment on culture and society. But he and I were talking about there's no shared human experience anymore because everyone's living in their own pockets. Everyone's choosing what to digest. You got your shows, you got your artists, so you get to live in your pocket and you don't really need to be told who's the star, who's most important? And so I'm saying when Kendrick drinking cold that is were that was still a time where people were saying, Nah, everyone needs to know these are the most important people. Now everyone gets to choose what's important to them. Everyone is living a fragmented version of culture, and so it's hard to make something that connects with the entire zite guys because everyone there's no shared human experience.

So do you feel like an alien that this is a landscape but you still have this old school I'm going to be the best MC in the world.

I'm navigating, man, I don't know. I'm just reacting and taking it in. I'm okay with being wrong. I don't know, I'm okay with being wrong about half the shit I just said. Like maybe in five years I'll see it differently. But it's just an interesting time.

But it's dope that you know, like even on the ambitious you say, I got to show these boys with the best out is the still want that you still want to be the best.

And she ain't leaving us for acting because we've lost the ice cubes and the latifas And.

Yeah, yeah, I'm not going nowhere. I love this shit too much. Shit, this rapture is not a cash grab to me or a vehicle to get famous. I love the craft. I grew up in it, so I'm here to stay.

Are you staying on that road? Are we getting a tour for jack Man?

I don't know, playing it by air right now. Tours take planning, so it obviously ain't happening in the next month or two. But keeping our finger on the pulse. Definitely have some things planned, but not feeling no pressure to go back out, really excited.

To go back in the studio already. Wow, So this is not like this is a full this is not an EP. This is the album. You're gonna live with this for like maybe a year or two.

And a year or two, I feel like, how does this success of the impact of Jackman shape how you may approach your next album.

I may need a little time to decide. I needed time off come Home to decide where I was going to go and going back, like I said, I did the movie after Come Home. I spent all that time away from the studio. I didn't record at the same time as a movie, and by the time I got back, I felt like I lost the stuff. So you have to stay in it. You have to stay sharp because you'll get in there. And for me, at least, it takes a second to get back in the swing. So at some point, I really I just want to listen to beats for a while. And she was compelling.

Do you work fast, pen pad?

No, some shit comes fast, some shit takes time. Okay, freestyling less and less. This is out of my road. I just wanted to write and take my time with make sure every line was worth hearing.

Depending pad, iPad off my phone.

Okay, notes airplane mode, I gotcha.

I was talking about the last song, if we get out of here, the questions. That's one of my favorites. What was the mistake going into recording that record?

I was high. I ain't even being funny. I was high. I don't get high, but I was high, really smoking. Yeah, I got high. Whenever I am in that space, I'm very self conscious and self loathing, almost critical, and I think I was just like thinking about all the flaws I see in myself. I just was thinking about I don't know about y'all, but when I get high, I think I'm crap and everyone knows, not just on some reption, just as a human like I get very self loathing. I don't know, so I think some of that came out on that record where I was just like, I was seeing the negative in myself a lot when I was writing up.

I like that record, Lie.

It just reminds me of Smoother, a Hustler record and the Jada Kiss joints asking questions.

Yeah, I thought about playing that for Jada quick.

Yeah, just on some just like.

Why we don't have to ask why you did the same of you, Jack.

We appreciate you, Thank you brother, you feel good about it?

Yeah, I feel great. Thanks for coming out here.

And before we get out of here, yeah, talk to us what we got here?

Man, Yeah, I'll be curious to see what y'all think of it. It's the remedy for writer's block. It's called Focus Elian.

And our former writers, So I get up. We don't even know about his block, man, Let's.

Get into it clean, no sugar, focus, Man's cool, good, right, moved out do it baby.

Made in Louisville.

That's a Louisville company.

You got it right, Beat out Louisville. We go Louisville Louisville. I love it.

Thank you, Hello, thank you, brother wrapperate our podcast, Yeah, thank you.

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Rap Radar is the home of hip-hop’s most revealing interviews. Each week, famed journalists Elliott W 
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