Confession

Published Jan 9, 2024, 8:02 AM

Under more scrutiny, some of the prosecution’s evidence breaks down, and a man who for years has been confessing to the shooting attracts renewed attention.

 

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Campsite Media, How far are you willing to go? Because like most of the people definitely never talked to me, they never talk to people that know me. So now they have what they think is the truth and they have run with that.

In November of twenty twenty one, Johnny Kaufman got a call from a man in federal prison. Johnny is the lead producer of this podcast, and the call came to him months before he convinced me to help him do more reporting, to host the podcast and make the story of my own. Johnny had been filing open records requests looking for problems with the Maam Jimial's prosecution and talking to this man in prison. An interesting man, a man who, over the course of his life, has gone by at least three names, Otis Jackson, Silas Mohammad, and James Santos. I'm going to call him Otis Jackson. On the phone, Otis was serious, didn't really joke much, and he sounded like a smart guy. He said violence was a part of his childhood, and he moved around a lot as a kid.

I floated from family member of family members of different people. You know, I mean.

Cool.

You know.

When Otis finished high school, he worked in construction, but before long he decided he can make more money hustling.

I'm not a violent person, but I can get vin and give. I'll put in a particular situation that's try the reason, but sometime the goal is beyond reason.

Otis's rap sheet is long and goes back to at least nineteen ninety one. He's been charged with battery, armed robbery, credit card fraud, and grand theft auto. Right now, he's in federal prison in the Midwest, set to get out in a few years. Otis is forty nine, black, shaved head at least in the photos we have, and he's around five foot seven, he has some scars, there's a dark mark on his forehead, a callous that some Muslims get from praying otis. He brings us to another chapter of this story, and in particular, to get another way of thinking about and understanding the truth. I've encountered truths that were tucked away just beyond my reach, and truths that were wrapped up in coats of fiction. With this guy, there was no secrecy or subterfuge or anything like that. Really, it was the opposite. In fact, for more than twenty years, he has been blasting at full volume that he is the one who shot Deputies Ricky Keinchin and Algernon English, but no one was really listening.

I've gotten away with murder for real. On some people say, man, you get away with murder. I've literally gotten away with murder. So yeah, I don't help all of it. It's not like that these people are not aware. It's just that they don't want to accept it because, you know, most of the time, like most human beings, if we do something wrong, we don't want to be told if we're wrong. And they convicted the wrong guy and sit the wrong guy to prison for life, for something that another guy needs.

When you track Otis's story, it's not impossible that he could have gone overlooked for years, ignored. Because someone confessing to a murder willingly submitting themselves to at least a long prison term and maybe even the death penalty. It just seems weird, hard to believe until maybe it is believed taken for truth by the right people. People with influence. They recruit the power of big institutions, and what seemed before like conventional wisdom is suddenly unsettled. So we had to investigate Otis's story for ourselves because it might get a man, Jamil out of prison. From Campside Media, Tenderfoot TV, and iHeart podcasts, This is Radic I'm Mosey's Secret, Episode six Confession. At the time of the shootout in the West End March of two thousand, Otis Jackson was on parole for a battery conviction he had picked up in Nevada. He'd allegedly shot a guy after an argument over a dog. Otis was allowed to stay at his mother's house in Atlanta because he was wearing an ankle monitor. Each day after work, Otis was supposed to go straight home to his mom's. Basically, he had a curfew. But a few weeks after the shootout and after a man Jamille was arrested for it, Otis was sent back to Nevada for violating his parole, and he was incarcerated at the Clark County Detention Center in Las Vegas.

When I got back in Nevada, I immediately called the authorities there, and actually, to be honest, they didn't want to hear it. I called maybe about eight times.

Finally an FBI agent went out to the prison to listen to what Otis had to say, and he confessed to shooting Deputy Kenjin and Deputy English. This was months before man Jamil's trial would start in Earnest.

I just said it, little man, you guys have the wrong guy in jail, you know, so I don't want anybody in jail or in treason for something that I know. The rested the wrong guy. So here's what happened. And he was definitely not interested in that. He told me, any man, we got over the shake case here with Jamil, so there's no need for you to be involved in this.

After Otis confessed, he was moved to solitary confinement. The guards put a sign on his door that said cop killer, and they started to get giving him a hard time.

He was playing with the food who called me cop killer. Sometime they would let me out of the shower. Sometimes they wouldn't, and when they did, sometime they would put me in a shower and locked me in a shower, and I would be in handcuff in that shower for hours without being able to actually shower because I'm still in handcuff.

So y'a. But man, listen, A lot of crazy stuff happened.

A few months after he spoke to the FBI, Otis wrote a statement, not sure if he put it in the mail or just handed it off to a guard, but it said, I Otis Milton Jackson was just trying to help a brother, not knowing it would give me the case. I loved Jamil, but I did not do anything. I killed no one, and Jamil killed no one. I'm so sorry for making the FBI feel as if I did this. Robert McBurney, the lead prosecutor in a man Jamial's case, he learned of Otis's confession, and because of procedural rules around potentially exculpatory evidence like this, McBurnie had to tell the defense team Otis's retraction just a few months after he officially confessed. That would be a problem for the defense if they called and to testify. But Jack Martin, a man Jamil's lead defense lawyer, he suggested he wasn't too concerned about that. Otis said he withdrew his confession because he'd been thrown in solitary confinement, a decision that a jury could make sense of the investigator for the defense what Tani Taijimba he interviewed Otis. Martin remembered the report that what Tani gave the defense team.

He you know, described Otis Jackson as giving us a consistent story. But you never know about somebody where, you know. I don't know whether believe him or not, but that's what his story makes sense.

Not sure whether he's telling the truth, but the story makes sense. That would have to be good enough. Remember, they only needed a reasonable doubt. Martin was ready to call Otis as a witness, but then Robert McBurney, the prosecutor he got in touch with Martin.

McBurney told me, listen, Jack, he was on probation at the time. He had an acco monitor on him, and we can prove that he wasn't in the West End area that night.

McBurney said he had data from Otis's ankle monitor that showed Otis was at home at his mom's house and it would have been physically impossible for him to have shot the deputies.

And he said, I just hope you call him because we'll be able to blow him out of the water with that ankle bracelet. I accepted that as being I didn't think McBurney would lie to me about that. I accepted that, and I thought, well, this is a death penloty case. If we call some witness, it blows up on us in the stand. That's going to HURTSS on the death penalty if we have to go there.

If the defense called Otis and then the prosecution proved he was lying, the jury wouldn't trust the defense team during the sentencing phase when they were asking the jury to spare a man Jamil's life.

So I made the decision or we made a decision not to call him.

The jury never heard Otis's confession, and AmAm Jamil was convicted and sentenced to life in prison. After a mam Jamil's initial appeals failed in the Georgia Supreme Court. His lawyers filed a habeas corpus appeal, the final shot at least to the courts to get him out of prison. The legal team got a deposition from Otis, who was out of solitary at this point, and he again confessed to the shooting under oath. In February of two thousand and seven, after a Mam Jamil had already spent about five years in solitary confinement, there was a hearing focused on the possibility that Otis shot the deputies. It was in Tattnall County, Georgia, where a Mamjmial was being held at Reidsville Prison. At this hearing, a founder of the company that made the technology uses a part of Otis's angle monitor to fight. He said the data actually did not show definitively that Otis was at home at the time of the shootout. This was big. It meant that Jack Martin had bad information when he decided against calling Otis to the stand during the trial. It meant Otis could have been anywhere the night of March sixteenth, two thousand, including in the West End, behind the trigger of a semi automatic rifle. So with all this information in mind, when Otis told my producer Johnny his story about what happened that night in the West End, we had to listen.

I went there. I went to work first, and I found out that I wasn't on the schedule to work.

That was like a free pass for Otis to do whatever he wanted that day, under the guys that he was working to be out in the world at least before he had to me back home. In the evening, Otis decided to run some errands.

I was moving some guns from one place to another and a bulletproof ess. So I'll put the guns in the trunk and I put I had one gun on me, a nine millimeis, and I drove to the West End community.

Otis said that at the time he was one of the leaders of the Almighty Vice Lord Nation, an organization law enforcement would call it a gang that was founded in Chicago. Back in the day. Otis was planning to get a branch of the Vice Lords going in Atlanta, and while he was running errands on March sixteenth, his plan was to visit a Maam Jamil to give him a heads up. The Western mass did under a man Jamil had armed security patrols, and AmAm Jamil had developed a reputation over the years for pushing out drug dealers. Otis just wanted to stop by to say, hey, we're going to be moving into the area, but we don't want any business with your community. Otis said he parked his car outside the mass did and the brothers told him AmAm Jamial wasn't around. He stuck around for prayer and he chatted with the brothers afterward. Actually, he realized it was getting late, and so he walked across the street to a Man Jamil's store, hoping he'd may be shown up, But the lights were off and the doors were locked. As Otis was walking away, the deputies pulled up. They got out and told Otis to put up his hands. Otis said he tried to explain himself, said he wasn't breaking into the store or anything, that he was looking for the owner, but one of the deputies had already drawn his gun and was screaming out orders.

So it's like two half of mails. Either one of us are back and now, and before I knew it, it had just escalated. I knew I had a gun on me, I'm all house arrest, I got so this is gonna send me right back to prison. It just wasn't happen, and I did what I felt that I had to do at the time. I pulled out my gun and fired.

Both deputies fired back, and Otis was hitting the arm. He ran to his car, which was parked across the street with a trunk full of guns, remember, and he grabbed an M fourteen, a semi automatic rifle. Otis said that Kenchin was being more aggressive than English, who was calling for help on his radio. So Otis went hard after Kenchin, who tried to take cover behind the black Mercedes that was parked on the street. Then Kenchin fell, Otis walked over to him.

I remember him telling me that he had a child and he was explaining to me, man, don't do it. You know, I got a little girl, and he was telling the other stuff. And at the time, I mean, you just shot me. You don't understand, like you know, we don't you know, we don't flit to the point of no retire. Now you just you know, shot me. I'm sitting up here a bloody mess. I'm bleeding on the head and also so I'm thinking that I'll shot in the head. But it wasn't a bullet at all. It was a piece of land from the car that had large in the side of my head. So but I didn't know it at the time. So I stood over him and I shot him in the growing.

Otis said. He turned to find English and saw him running away toward the field next to the mast Jit and then shot and bloody. Amped up on adrenaline, Otis forgot his car was there and started looking for help.

Well, you go through a situation like that, you know, when you're shooting at people and people are shooting at you, you can't be a little outside of you, said, I'm not going to say out of a body's fan, but you kind of get outside of yourself. So I got a little confused for a second.

Eventually, Otis came back to his senses, he found his car, and he drove home. This was a wild story, but in some ways it made more sense than the story we had heard about AmAm Jamil. Otis had a track record of shooting people with little provocation. He was a hothead, and he didn't have as much to lose as a Mam Jamial. Still, something was definitely off about the guy he'd pled guilty to writing letters to public officials threatening to kill them unless they accepted his confession and freedom. Ma'am Jamil, that's why he was in prison. But like I said, some powerful people were convinced he was telling the truth. It helped a Mam Jamil get access to a new legal process that could potentially get him out of prison. It took the judge seven years to reject a Ma'am Jamil's habeas appeal, the one in Tattnall County, Georgia, where it came out that the ankle monitor did not prove Otis Jackson was at home during the shootout. The judge rejected the appeal in twenty eleven. AmAm Jamil's lawyers kept at it, though, appealing to higher courts. But I'll just tell you now, all of those habeas appeals were rejected. The odds of an inmate winning any type of release on a habeas claim are very very slim. But then in Yeahanuary of twenty twenty, almost two decades after the shootout, a new path opened up for a Mam Jmial, new hope for him and his supporters. The Fulton County DA created something called the Conviction Integrity Unit, or the CiU. It's a division within the prosecutor's office that examines cases from the past looking for wrongful convictions that could be overturned. When the civil rights legend Andrew Young wrote a letter to the Fulton County DA claiming a Maam Jimial was innocent, he sent it to the CiU. Specifically, Otis Jackson was a focus of the letter. Young wrote that Otis matched some eyewitnesses descriptions of the shooter. Otis was violating his parole and so he had a motive for shooting the deputies. He had ammunition at home that matched the ammunition used during the shooting, and he had been convicted of violent crimes in the past. It seems like Young's letter influenced the Fulton County DA because we later learned the CiU was reviewing a Ma'am Jamil's case and the ma'm Jamil supporters in other corners. They focused on Otis, too, mounting campaigns to try to convince big media organizations like CNN to interview him. A coalition of twenty eight Muslim American organizations sent a letter to the Department of Justice that also made Otis's confession a focus. But to convince the DA's office or the courts, Otis's confession alone would never be enough, especially after all these years. It wouldn't be enough to convince me either. Any good journalists would want to find corroboration for a bombshell like this, so we set out to try to find people who Otis had encountered or spoken to in the aftermath of the shooting.

I'm coming down from the durn them was now the situation.

That started in the When Otis returned to his mom's house, the phone rang. A parole officer was calling to check on him. Otis told the officer he was just getting home from work, but the officer said he still had to market as a violation. But Otis's mind was elsewhere. He said he was in pain, bleeding from the gunshot wounds. He called a neighbor, a nurse who lived across the street, to come over and fix them up, and two other women came to lend a hand. A bullet was lodged in Otis's shoulder, and they extracted it stitched him up. One of the women gave Otis some painkillers, but advill or tile and all after a bullet wound. I'm thinking this had to be excruciating.

Luckily for me, I just happened to know these people, because if I had not, probably would have died.

The morning after the shootout, Otis said he gave all the guns he had to his brother, told him he didn't want them because he was on parole, and then he called a reporter at a local TV station. Otis was worried and Mam Jamil was going to be arrested for the shooting.

You got to understand when they when they start artist saying that this guy did it and they were looking for this they were looking for him. The first thing that brought to my mind was, damn, man, they're about to arrest the wrong person.

I don't want this guy to go to jail for something I did. That's not right.

When the reporter showed up, Otis said he offered to give him the bloody clothes he had worn during the shootout, but the reporter said, look, if you do that, then I'd have to turn them over to the police. Otis didn't like that idea, so he didn't give the reporter the clothes, but he still agreed to an interview. Meanwhile, since Otis had violated his parole, law enforcement came to search his house, and a few weeks later he was shipped back to Nevada. So that's Otis's story of the aftermath of the shooting. Plenty of leads to chase down right. First, we went to the block where Otis was staying with his mom back in March of two thousand and we spoke to some of the neighbors. They confirmed that Otis's mother lived there, but they didn't know any nurses who lived nearby in two thousand. No corroboration there. Then we got a transcription of an interview with Otis's brother. He said, nah, Otis never gave me any guns. No corroboration there, But maybe that's what anyone would say to protect a brother who gave him a bunch of guns and then confess to a murder that happened the night before. So next we tracked down a recording in the local news segment featuring Otis. One of the man Jamil supporters gave it to us. They had been monitoring and recording TV news after the shootout. You are watching eleven or five news at Viberi as a suspect in the shootings of two deputies.

By its extradition back to.

Georgia, old friends paint a different picture of a man accused of murder.

He took a community that was infested with prostitution and drugs and drug dealers, and he cleaned it up. Good evening again.

I'm de Otis goes by Silas. Muhammad in the segment text at the bottom of the screen calls him a friend of Alamine. From what we've heard, when Otis was in Atlanta, he might have stopped by the mass jed to mix a lot a few times, but a friend of Alamine. That was probably local TV news stretching the facts a bit. The story was set up to be about someone close to AmAm Jamil and the Weston Masjid who argued to Ma'am Jamil was a peaceful religious leader.

I know that Jamil a Lamine did not shoot any police officers that night.

Would you put your hand on the Kuran and say that, yes, Sir I would.

Would you stake your life on him, yes, Sir I will.

The segment buried at the very end what I would consider the most important information from the whole thing.

Solace. Mohammad says that there are people in this community who revere and respect and love Jamil Abdullah A Lamine, and that there are people here who would do anything to protect him, that includes shooting at Fulton County Sheriff's deputies.

Do you mark if silace, Mohammed says, Alameine didn't pull the trigger, does he know who did?

Well?

I asked him that and he said he would not answer for two reasons. He said he fears self incrimination and he also respects the code of silence. But he did say he hopes and expects that important information will be revealed during the court process.

We played this story back for the reporter he's retired now, and he told us he didn't remember it. That's understandable. A local TV reporter might do thousands of stories in their career, and so we asked, did he remember Otis telling him off the record and off camera that he had been involved in a recent shooting. No, the reporter said, and if Otis had told him that, he would have remembered. When we asked Otis for his help corroborating his story, asked him who we should try to talk to and if he has suggestions for contacting them. He wasn't much help. Too much time had passed. He said, you're not going to get anywhere.

If I were in your shoes, I'll probably would scrap this story and do something else, maybe a story on dogs, you know, because.

I'm bey honest man, like, you're not gonna have a lot of people willing to talk about the murd of a police officer.

I got a laugh out of that one. Yes, interviewing folks about their dogs would be easier than what we're doing. People are not especially willing to share information about a murder they might be even tangentially connected to. But I got the sense that Otis was communicating more than that.

Just believe me.

He seemed to be saying, this story could move mountains if people only believed. Some things might work like that. But journalism isn't one of them, and for the most part, the legal system isn't either. We uncovered some glaring inconsistencies between Otis's different accounts of what happened. On March sixteenth, two thousand, The FBI interviewed Otis in Las Vegas, a few months after the shoot. According to a summary of the interview Otis had it all went down during the day and Maam Jamil was there and when the deputies pulled up, Otis jumped to his defense. There was a fistfight and then the guns came out, but a Maam Jamil didn't get involved. That's a different story than Otis's other accounts, and the shootout definitely happened at night. I just can't trust Otis, And while the Conviction Integrity Unit or the courts they might at least consider his story, I don't think they'll ever be able to trust him either. Late in our reporting, we learned that in twenty nineteen, in Florida, Otis was called to testify in a different high profile murder trial over a Grizzly quadruple murder. He had made another confession. The judge ordered that a psychologist evaluate Otis and look into his mental health history. According to the psychologist's report back in two thousand and six, Otis showed no symptoms of distress, but in two thousand and eight he made repeated requests for mental health treatment, and when he was placed in solitary confinement, he began to report auditory hallucinations. He was hearing voices. Otis was adamant he was not mentally ill, but a different psychologist said his symptoms were consistent with bipolar disorder and delusional disorder. The psychologists who evaluated Otis wrote that Otis's claims about his past were quote highly suspect, but that he had the capacity to testify in the Florida case. He is a highly intelligent individual, the report said. One time, when I was trying to wrap my head around all of this, I just let my imagination run wild. I started thinking about how some people who hear voices say they're experiencing a broader reality through their mind's ear that the rest of us can't sense. And I thought, Wow, what if Otis slash Silas Mohammad slash James Santos keeps infesting the crimes he was there for, but not really there for until And this is where I really let my imagination run wild. By some epiphany, Otis learns to control his powers and emerges from the darkest prisons as a force for good. Otis Jackson is a comic book superhero cool origin story. Right, No, it doesn't make a lick of sense, but he got me thinking there might be a place in this story about AmAm Jamil for a more intentional use of imagination. A ma'am Jamil was a magnet for people who couldn't distinguish between made up stories and what was happening before their eyes, whose fantasies would float out into the world and have very real consequences. Otis is maybe the most extreme example, but he wasn't the only one. If I can't escape this mythological realm, maybe I should learn to play with it. A departure from the realm of journalism, for sure, but maybe it would do some good. But for now, back to reality. Otis responded to one of our letters a few months ago, but he hasn't called us in months. He never came out and told Johnny I'm done with these interviews, but on one of their later calls, Otis said.

This, I'm to a point, man, where really I'm kind of I'm kind of tired of talking about it. For real. I've got to a point where I feel like it is what it is. Man. I got a release date. They're gonna let me out of prison, so I don't really see the need to, you know, keep repeating something over and over and over and over and over again, especially where when there's no real benefit for me. So why I keep doing that?

I do think that a part of Otis really believes what he's saying, and for some reason, the story took holding a fragment of his personality. His reality is so real for him he do almost anything to make others see it. But after hours of listening to Otis's voice, I wanted to get back to the documents, and in the thousands of pages we had, there were a few that I needed to spend more time with. Years ago, a man Jamil recounted his version of what happened the night of the shootout, and I turned there next. At the time of this recording, a mam Jamil Elamine is seventy nine years old and he's still in prison, a federal prisoner in Arizona, equipped to provide medical care. He got out of Adax, Florence because he was sick. It may be obvious by now, but this feels like the time to say it. I wasn't able to interview him. I wrote to him, but I didn't hear back. AmAm Jamil didn't testify during his murder trial, but during one of his appeals the one in Tattneau County back in two thousand and seven. He gave his account under oath and on the record of what happened on March sixteenth, two thousand. AmAm Jamil said that earlier in the day, hours before the shootout, he had a run in with some young folks in the neighborhood who were selling drugs. AmAm Jamil hated drugs, hated them since his days as Rat Brown. He saw them as a scourge on the black community and part of a government conspiracy to keep up potentially rebellious population sedated. During his testimony, he said the western neighborhood near the Maschiff had been infested with drugs at least until the brothers led by him started exerting their influence, and this had made him some enemies. As evening approached on the night of the shooting, a man Jamil had dinner with his family at Red Life. Afterward, he wanted to check the mail, so he drove back to the West End and parked his car near the Masjed in the store, He got out of the car and he was in the empty field next to the mass Jed, walking towards the back entrance when he said he heard two pistol shots and then many more rounds of gunfire. A Maam Jamil didn't look back. He said he went into safety mode, thinking the drug dealers were after him. He got low and ran behind the mass Jed. Then he kept running through the neighborhood he knew well. He went in a loop behind houses, through backyards and cuts until he arrived back at the store that's across the street from the mass Jed. The gunfire had stopped and he didn't see anyone else around. He got in his Mercedes and he drove off. AmAm Jamil said he initially intended to drive home, but then thinking the drug dealers were after him, he decided and said to go to Lowndes County, Alabama, the location of a smaller Muslim community he founded. An attorney for the state arguing against a Ma'am Jamial's appeal asked why he didn't call the police, and Maam Jamial said the mask Jed had a quote security arrangement. Instead of calling the police, the first people he would have spoken to would have been meant on the mass Jed security force, who were supposed to be on duty that night. Over the years. This is not one that has haunted you or that you think about or no. Brett Zembric, the Atlanta Police Department detective who investigated the shootout, he was one of the first people I interviewed. A lot of what Brett said was in my head when I reviewed a Mam Jamial's testimony.

I don't have any doubts about this case. I never had any doubts about this case. It was a case that, you know, these guys got shot. They just happened to be wearing badges and guns, and this is who shot him, and he just happened to be someone that had some notariety. There's absolutely no no thought whatsoever that there's somebody else involved, that there's you know, a conspiracy to get a trip who wins there? I mean, what was he doing that was so you know, dramatic that we needed to get him off the street at any cost.

I don't get it.

So, you know, based on what I know about the incident, what I've been told, what I see, and what the test results are, I have no doubt in my mind that you know, Jamil all means shot these two deputies killed one of them. I don't think for a minute that he needs another trial or you know, another chance at you know, doing good. I think what happened happened, and the punishment fits a crime, and I'm glad.

He's doing the time. When I left Brett's house, I thought, I can't really argue as much of what he said. It became even harder for me to believe that a man Jamil had a confer with drug dealers that ultimately blossomed into a vast conspiracy, a conspiracy that's been kept secret all these years. But after I looked more closely at the trial transcripts and the documents we got from the DA's office, and after I talked to people who were part of the mass did and who lived in the West End, I became convinced that there was more to what happened that night than what was revealed in court or even in all the documents we'd obtained. When I asked the man Jamil's defense attorneys, Tony Axim and Jack Martin for their theories of what happened, it only confirmed my suspicion. Here's Axom, I can't tell you that I don't know the answer to that.

And I said, there with a smile. I have no theories, have no theories, can't answer. I don't know the answer question I wish I did. My memory is totally blank.

That might be one of the most entertaining NOE commet responses that I've ever gotten in my career. Jack Martin was more helpful.

I seriously think that it's possible, not just possible, but likely that al I mean was confronted by these officers and there was a lot of yelling and screaming, and that somebody is supporting the community. Maybe it's Otis Jacks, and maybe somebody else saw that and thought all means in trouble and did something stupid. All I mean was reluctant to present a case forcely that somebody else did. He was trying to protect that person. He thought that would involve him, and it would some extent, but it would it would defeat the murder charge. So I understood that. So I don't think we pressed that as hard as we perhaps should have, but we let the jury sort of linger out there over that issue.

We let the jury sort of linger out there over that issue. Martin said, I'm not bringing in all this information from Martin. It's just another way to raise doubt about whether a man, Jimial shot the two deputies. It's something I've heard on and off the record that maybe someone else was there, that the West End was the kind of neighborhood where people confronted trouble with guns blazing. Everybody knew he was a dangered person, and my friend said, Hey, what hell you do.

Don't get in the call with that motherfucker because they know you'll come at when a murricane.

That's on the next episode of Radical. Radical is a production of Campside Media, Tenderfoot TV, and iHeart Podcasts. Radical was reported and written by Johnny Kaufman and me Mosey's Secret. Johnnykauffman is our senior producer. Shepa Joseph is our associate producer. Editing by Eric Benson, Johnny Couffman, Emily Martinez and Matt Cher. Fact checking by Sophie Hurwitz, Kaylin Lynch, and Layla Dos. Original music by Kyle Murdoch and by Ray Murray of Organized Noise, Sound design and mixing by Kevin Seaman. Recording by Ewan Leed trem Ewen and Sheba Joseph. Campside Media's operations team is Doug Slaywan, Ashley Warren, Elijah Papes, Destiny Dingle, and Sabina Merra. The executive producers at Campside Media are Josh Dean, Vanessa, Gregoriatis, Adam Hoff, and Matt Cher. For Tenderfoot TV, executive producers are Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay. The executive producers at iHeart Podcasts are Matt Frederick and Alex Williams, with additional support from Trevor Young,

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