The Rennae Stubbs Tennis PodcastRennae and Caitlin sit down with Nick Pachelli, author of the tennis world's most coveted coffee-table travel book The Tennis Court, to discuss his favorite travel destinations, which locations might appear in a hypothetical sequel book, and which tennis personalities we all think would make for the best travel companions. Let us know your picks in the comments/reviews!
Going to recording one, all right, recording the last episode of the year.
We are is this Christmas?
Is this last Christmas?
Oh God, that's not. I think actually my voice might be better than yours.
That's okay.
We'll let the listeners decide, because they've heard me sing. I'm just saying this is not.
We will have done a Christmas episode by now. This is our last episode of the new year, and we've already predicted what we think is going to happen in twenty twenty five, which we have. We're going to surge whose needs to make a major comeback? Who's looking good?
Should I say? Welcome everybody to the Renee Stupsentas podcast, just in case you forgot who you were listening to. I mean sure somebody wrote on on they were very upset at you, Sean. One of our listeners was very upset at you by the way that you're trying to remove the Australian Open from the calendar because you don't think it's a big enough market. And I keep trying to tell you it's a huge market. It's Australasia. It's everybody in there, Tom Dick and Harry that wants to go out of weather that is getting here in New York, for example, and be in beautiful weather in Australia and make it a you're always complaining about not having destination tennis tournaments. Is there a better destination tournament in January when it's miserablay here in New York and miserable in Europe to go to Australia? Can you tell me a better destination to go in January.
I'm going to deflect that question really by acknowledging my role on this podcast, which is to be antagonized exactly. I used to have my own podcast where I would just talk about hypotheticals people playing under a pirate banner, and now that I've joined a legitimate outfit like this, my role is just antagonists but actual. So you've set us up so perfectly to introduce our guest today. So instead of addressing the destination tennis that is Australia, we will talk about the destination tennis tournament that is in Australia. Because the phenomenal author who's sitting next to me and is headed there shortly along with her nee, is Nick Pachelli, who created the Coffee Table Book of Tennis. The Tennis Court. Welcome Nick to the Tennis Podcast.
Thank you Bill for having me excited to be here.
I Nick, can you please sound a little bit more like you know? I mean seriously, I know you're laid You're a laid back dude, but you know, I mean, you should be very excited about this situation. Can you all guys all hear the ambulance in the background. We are in New York in my apartment and it's so hot. But people that would understand that live in New York, which the three of us do, understand that we have no control over the heat in our buildings, and so therefore it feels like, as I'm about to get on a plane tomorrow to Australia, it feels like I'm already in Australia because it's eighty five degrees in my apartment.
Day is wired and Nick is bringing the mellow vibe. So Nick, you're either going to have to get on our listening to get on yours.
I've been listening to Aurora songs for the last like two hours, so I'm feeling like a Hans Zimmer background music singer at the moment. I can't really describe. I can't sing like her, but I wish I could. But yes I am. I can curse on this right of course. I am fucking stoked to be and I have listened to your podcast a lot. I know you guys don't have like the little explicit moniker on it, but yes, I am fucking stoked about the book. I am very stoked to go back to Australia. That is the only place I want to be in January? Wait, what gave me place I want to be in January? Except I would also maybe like pop over to Queenstown and like hang out in New Zealand.
There we go. Have you been to Queenstown Queacetown.
New Zealand? Seems like it It has too many animals for me?
What you are the weirdest human being? I seriously I have to say that. Although finally, before we get to Nick's amazing book, I have to say to all the listeners out there, Caitlyn, who doesn't seem to have the same tastes as me in a lot of ways, was called me yesterday or two days ago in it just in a usually don't call me because when I try and call you, A go straight to voicemail, which is Nick do you have that problem when you call Caitlyn go straight to voicemail.
Has a figure that saut so please please Yeah.
So fucking annoying. Anyway, So Caitlyn calls me the other day. I was like, oh, what does she want?
You know?
So I pick up the phone. I'm like, hey, Caitlin, what's up. She goes, Oh, my god, I just saw the most unbelievably hot woman I've ever seen in my whole life. It was Kate Blanchette. I go, excuse me, because Kate Blanchette is my whole past, as we say, and Caitlyn's usually not into the blonde, blue eye sort of Aussie look. She's more, you know, like a Mediterranean ab Yep. Anyway, she was losing her fricking mind. I've never heard you talk about someone with more.
What I said was, I just saw the most poised, stunning, elegant, elevated woman walking next to me at JFK. Before I realized, of course, it was Kate Blanchette. Yeah, who I knew was among your face. I didn't realize she was your She's my whole post. What a stunning, wonderful, wonderfully attired woman. Just if I sent itating a sense of calm. She had a garment bag with her with her roly, a beautiful sort of subtle, you know, high quality leather bag. She had the Canadian a tuxio Dunhim double Dunham shambray shirt, sort of very raw Dnhim look, pointy boots, and then she had this very very cool mid calf subtle kind of plaid, almost a tweed jacket.
Yeah, it was next level and with a bit of a I have it because someone. Of course, I started telling everybody this, and I went skiing and I started telling everyone this, and then one of our friends send it to me, a picture of her. Of course, you know, celebrities get papped all the time at the airport, and she goes, oh, this is it.
Yeah, and it was. The look was so great. And she was on her way back to Australia. And when I said, damn, why couldn't my flight have been to Australia two days ago?
Well, we're not sure she was going back to strike because then someone said she was on the Today Show this morning, so she must have been coming into New York. Caitlin. The garment bag is probably what she wore Today, but she.
Was walking towards the end of the terminal and the bgates and she was right near the Shakeshack and the International departures wing of oh very terminal.
For me, I can click picture it now barely certain the Today Show is live though, I.
Mean, I can't argue with that anyway. On the theme of travel, you were about to have to Australia, But most importantly you have written and created and photographed this seminal book which now we're going to see a spade of coffee table books. But you did it first, and you did it the best. Congratulations it's stunning. Before we get you to talk about it, how it came to be, and also some of our own questions about maybe some favorite chords that didn't make it in there that should be in volume two, if they're ever a volume two. Who maybe we want to travel a tour with. I just want to read some blurbs on the back, because there's some pretty bold face names among them.
Luis A.
Thomas, a phenomenal New Yorker writer who has contributed to Racket, Chris Clary, the famous New York Times bestselling author John Wortheim, who also has written for Sports Illustrated.
Well, let's say he's the sixty sixty minutes correspond.
Sixty minutes correspondent. You got cat atoms on here. Most importantly, though, you've got Renee Stubbs. Oh yes, saying this book made me fall in love with tennis all over again.
Yeah, I did.
Great quote. And then my quote at the bottom, which was very worthy, like me detailing the remote and far removed to the legendary courts that have hosted the most storied events in tennis history. This gorgeous book offers us a lens to an encounter of the world. So somewhere between Renee's sparse words and my verbose contribution, I feel like we tried to get at the fact that you've created something really amazing. So congratulations, Thank you and.
Anyone who picks up the newly printed batches that are now on sale everywhere. Billy Jim King's quote, I was.
Gonna say, Nick, you're forgetting about sort of probably the most important post.
My north Star did give a blurb.
Yeah, she did.
And one of my favorite courts in the book, which is in Santa Fe, New Mexico, is a place that she has been to a number of times because it's Gladys Helman's former home what that she retired to the court in the basement of And so that was the connect that where I was able to email Billy and her team and say, I tried to go to really poignant places, and this is a big one, and I know you have a personal attachment to it.
Gladys Helmon is minor at star, having been the publisher and one of the original nine.
But also you were.
From New Mexico, so I can imagine that court probably meant extra to you.
Yeah. I actually didn't know it existed until maybe five or so years ago. But yeah, it's right off the Santa Fe Plaza for anyone who has traveled to Santa Fe before, and she would never know it's there.
Oh God, I have another reason to go to Santa Fe. Santa Fe's I met the governor of Santa Fe.
That's impossible because Santa Fe is not a state, not Santa Fe.
Sorry, you know what I mean, New Mexico. It's been a long fucking day, Okay, I met the governor of New Mexico.
I hope somebody doing a biography look is asking for an blat Branda.
I'm a.
M. I hope somebody is doing a geography.
Look is asking for an blat Brandam, I'm a strain And she was like, yeah, to come out and Santa Fe is a yeah. So it's another reason to go to Santa Fe.
You are opening that court up to the wider community too.
So what does that mean that you can hit there?
Yeah, that's what I mean. You could text somebody, a coach, a local coach that does lessons and go get some time out there.
Well, don't threaten me with a good time, because my wife has convinced me that we should not move internationally. Is in fact we should relocate to Santa Fe, New Mexico her favorite place on Earth. Maybe it's the green Hatch Chilies.
Maybe Caitlin has been shitting on Australia, Australasia, New Zealand, et cetera. And we Nick brought up Queenstown, which is arguably one of the most beautiful places you can ever go to. Ever, I just happened to open the book to the picture of the Queenstown look at that. I never saw the tennis courts. Actually, my best friend got married and has a house in Queenstown. Her husband's from Queenstown and when I went there for the first time, oh my god, it's so beautiful here. But now looking at the courts in this photo, it makes me want to go back there and just see it. I think that's the thing about the book, Nick, and that's why I said it made me sort of fall in love, because you know, when you've retired from tennis, you've seen a lot of tennis courts. I've seen a lot of tennis courts through the years, and it's not something I like, you know, arguably want to go and do when I on vacation. A lot of our listeners or most of our listeners, are the opposite. They want to go to places that are beautiful. They want to go to places where they're going to get good tennis, good coaches, good courts, beautiful you know, backgrounds and all the things. So I think that's one of the things that you've done with this book is actually made people like Christie Krusty, old people like me who don't necessarily want to be on the tennis court all the time anymore because it was my life, it was your office, sort of see it in a way. They're like, oh, that's right, tennis is really cool, you know. I mean even looking at Cooper Park tennis courts in Sydney. You went there and took these photos. Do you know that I used to play junior tennis. It was called Saturday Afternoon Comp. We used to call it. So we've played a mixed doubles and we'd play with all the oldies, like we're pretty much my age now and my brother and I would play, you know, mixed doubles when we were like twelve, thirteen, fourteen with the with the older folks in Saturday Afternoon comp.
And one of the.
Places we used to go to was Cooper Park. And I forgot about these little hidden gems, even in my own city that I grew up in. And so I think that's like the thing that we forget. I forget anyway as a professional tennis player, and then also as somebody who sort of covers the sport, and I go to the usual places Wimbledon, you know, US Open, French Open, Straight and Open. But it's like you forget about where it all starts, right, I mean, I started there when I was a kid, and there's just so many little places around the world like that. And if you love a sport, like that, you know, and I just got back from skiing, and skiing has become sort of my thing where I appreciate the beauty. But I think that's one of the things that you know, when you look at some of these places that you have in the book, it's just incredible. I mean Sedona, Arizona, like it's crazy. It's a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful illustration of the colors as well.
Let's start with sort of how how did this book come about? I mean, this is a pitch, this is an idea.
Yeah, I will say, just on the subject of Cooper's Park, Cooper Spark in Sydney, it's very close to Bondai to have been down there. That was a place where obviously I've went to hundreds, if not a little over one thousand public tennis facilities like that, and when you go to so many, it's like, well, fuck, which ones do I put in this book?
Yeah?
That was one similar to this place called Competitor Decali and College Columbia and places in the Czech Republic where when I showed up, every court taken was doubles. Yeah, and then I was like, Okay, something cool communal is happening here.
Wait a second, are you saying not pickaball on site?
And I like doubles honestly more than singles. So anytime I went to a country where there was a focus on doubles and the fun of doubles and the strategy of it, I was like, this is a cool place. So that's how Cooper Spark ended up there.
And I mean, just just an FYI when you do. When I look at the photo, because it's been so long since I've been there, I just forgot how beautiful it was. It's just surrounded by natural foliage. It's crazy, and it's so close to as you said, the city inside this city of Sydney. Was that your first court, No, it was not my first call. My first court was a little place called Snape Park and I could ride my bike. I'd get on my bike in the morning at like six o'clock in the morning, when it was dark. I'd ride my bike about five minutes down the road and I'd play at a little place and it was part of a big and you'll notice this really around the world, but particularly in Australia and probably England. You know, big massive football fields right or cricket fields, and then on the side would be a tennis facility, and that's what Snake Park was. It was a huge, big open park where you played football and kids would play rugby and all sorts of things. And then there was about six tennis courts on the side, and I would ride my bike down there, and you know, my coach lived across the street. I'd literally knock on the window and be like, I'm down here, and he'd be like, crawl out of bed and come out and hit some tennis balls with me before I'd go to school.
What was yours.
Arroyaldella so tennis courts public courts and Albuquerque.
In Mexica as that neighborhood based.
Yeah, just like a little neighborhood dry really cracked up hard courts in the middle of northeast Albuquerque.
That just shows you how important public tennis courts are, right the Snap Park was a public tennis court. Anyone could go on there and book a court. And then I went from there a fuse later went to a place called Couljie Beach tennis courts. I don't know if you saw those, but there's like four there's synthetic grass and a lot of synthetic grass in Australia, it's a nightmare. But and then I ended up there quite a bit as a kid, So that's kind of snap. Park Couldie Beach tennis courts and I'd take the bus from school down to the bus stop close by, and I'd get off the bus stop and I would get a scollop. We call it. It's basic, like a fried potato, a big potato. Did you have those in Canada? And I would go in and get eighty cents worth of chips French fries. That's our inflation. So I'd get a scallop, hot chips, a Fanta and I'd walk to the courts from the bus top when I was like ten years of age, and I'd walk to the Cuojie Beach tennis courts and not place of champion, Well it was afternoon, was after school?
Did you play White City?
So funny that you bring that up. Woodonga was where I won a tournament, a grasscourt tournament twenty five thousand was there. I loved going there, but that was not close to me in Sydney and White City was like to me was the mecca of tennis. Like in Australia we have Ku Yong we have White City we had up in Brisbane. Oh my god, it's escaping me right now. But they were the classic classic tennis facilities in Australia. And White City was where I would go to. I would skip school and I would sneak in the courts and I told Billy Jean King this story. I have her signature on one of the signature books. You knows as you're a kid. And my brother and I would sneak under into the like the water drainage area, and there was a little bridge that would bridge the back courts to the front courts at White City, and we would sneak up on the bridge and get in that way without pain. And so White City to me was so unattainable and so beautiful. And it was across the road from this place called rush cuta bay in Sydney where a lot of you know, hoity toity bougie people live, and it's right on the harbor. It was gorgeous and it was one of the biggest I think it's one of the saddest stories of Australian tennis, in my opinion, is that Tennis Australia didn't buy White City. First of all, the land would be worth a fortune now. And second of all, they let go of one of the great tennis facilities and places in Sydney and instead they put the tournament out where the Olympic Park was for the Olympics, and it's in the middle of nowhere. It's out west, you know, And this is going to sound really terrible. It's one of the reasons why tennis is sort of elitist. But you know a lot of rich people go to tennis, right and you take corporate people to tennis events and you'd sit them in a box and you do do a lot of business at tennis's tournaments. And so a lot of people weren't going to travel that had a lot of money, weren't going to travel out to Homebush Bay, which was like forty minutes away from city, whereas rash Kata Bay or where White City was was right in the middle of the money.
Well, we can get to that, because I do want to talk about which tournaments that we feel like maybe their bucket list tournaments or some of the destinations they don't even have to be affiliated with an event, are doing tennis really well because they've put their courts really close into the city. And one of the questions I wanted to ask you, especially because this could get very Australian centric very quickly, is how did you think about geographic diversity? Did you start with a plan to be like, Okay, I need to have at least five or six places.
In different.
Continents, Like, there's so many incredible places you can go. There's so many places that I've been, and yet so many I feel like I have to go that it would just be so daunting to make a plan to do this. So that's my first question for you, is like, how did you plan this out?
Yeah, the original effort was various sort of research, journalistic was just to call people in every country where they play tennis.
And I'm not how many countries is that?
I mean everywhere every country.
Of course for giants like the US and Australia, the approach was a little different. But you know, for Hungry Egypt, Thailands, Japan, South Korea, a bunch of others, India. It was very interesting to talk to people at the federation level pro players. They're connects. People in tennis just send you down rabbit holes of connection.
And they were all pumped right, like everybody was like, yes, let me help you, let me find favorite places. Did anybody shut you down?
I mean yeah, I was shut down. And other countries don't go there where They just like they just don't want outsiders coming in or or even seeing their place. But it was a little bit of a conversation to get them to come in. But you know, everyone once they all start talking. As I'm watching when they flip through the pages, I'm just thinking of all the stories of how each place came to be. But places just continue coming up when you talk to people in certain countries. But then to get to the geographic diversity question, yeah, we wanted there to be a really solid spread of surface history, new tennis communities, game changers, really quirky oddball places. There are no courts in the book. People's private homes.
That's the only Maybe that's the next one.
Maybe that's the next one. Maybe. Yeah, there's a lot of potential next ones.
Yeah.
The Isle of Harris in Scotland is just all time right.
Right, trip is the most worth it thing for any tennis person. What is the ones like Charles City As you've been out in Iowa, I think.
Right, Yeah, Bensa and Iowa in the middle of the cornfields. Those ones that feel like a pilgrimage are especially amazing because you're like, who on earth would put a tennis court here? And then when you get there it does feel like your own little private eden do you have. I mean, it's hard to like make you pick favorites, but surely there's like a couple that maybe because of I have some favorite photos of you, you were kind enough to let us excerpt some of the I don't want to call it the material from the book, because I think it was on purpose, some of the extraneous material, just to get people a little bit of a sense without cannibalizing this incredible thing. But like there's a picture of a book of in the in the in our magazine issue twenty four, where you're lying court side on the stadium stands. It's just there's such a fun in Porto Romano. In I went to Spain where they did.
Not long ago. It's beautiful, so many great great clay courts. Then they have the hard court, a couple of hard courts, which acted a lot of pros go to that from you know, Dan Evans goes there, No vak Djokovic goes there.
I think any Murray trains there, really, I don't.
I don't. Andy would go there, and then also Gabia and Paula Badosa goes there still, so a lot of players still go to Ponta Romano. It's beautiful too. Yeah, what a great spot.
Yeah yeah, there's nothing okay, but but favorites pick favorite.
For just pure scenery, Queens Sound, tennis club, mirror in. Actually, if you just start at Bergenstock in Switzerland and then get in your car and just drive for the Alps, every little valley has their own claycourt club that's out of a what's a ski shalley in the winter, that's incredible. Grinda Wald is out there. I'm a big road trip fan. So if you could just hop in the car and hit tennis courts along the way. When I went to grindwald Anger and you just show up, there's an odd number often an odd number of people on the courts, people just hitting serves. Which was my dream when putting the book together. Right, someone's out here hitting serves. So you can go, let's talk. I'll buy you coffee, I'll buy you beer, Let's hit that. That was the story of the book.
Really So I want to ask you because I you know, as I said, I've you know, gone through the book and there's so many things that I'm like, oh my god, Like tennis is really so worldwide, it's so beautiful, it's just such such an incredible sport. Really, but uh Uganda, like being there taking that photo, what was that like for you?
So I did not take every single photo in the book. That's one thing I like have to make clear. Yeah, And so you know, while I went to North Africa to shoot several places, I didn't make it to Yukanda. But for quite also, like similarly for the courts in Pakistan, we included those courts because those that facility was just redone and they just started having tournaments for both male and female players.
Oh cool.
So new tennis communities, new frontier is That's why we really wanted to include them. But in the course of the travels for the book across however many thirty some countries, I didn't make it Pakistan.
How many How long was this two years in the making.
Two years of travel? It was six hundred and ten days of travel across uh two years sporadically, And what.
Was the best tennis you played, and the worst tennis you played just curious.
I played a tournament in Rotterdam. I really am shit on clay.
Joined the club, bro joined the club. Although you loved sliding on it, there's just nothing like sliding on ground on clay. I think I could play on clay just because I could slide like I could slide like Rougher. I just couldn't play like there's more to them. I mean I could slide for days.
So I won both the singles and the double sturt ofment of that, which was fun. And the worst tennis I played was in Australia, when you know, I was going to so many different places around Sydney and Melbourne, but and switching surfaces so many times in one day, and that synthetic grass was killing my knees and ankles, and I was.
Just playing the synthetic grass is hard, it's brutal.
Well, actually I don't mind playing on it now because I like sliding because I don't have to. You know, when I play with people, I have to do a lot of the running, and so I end up like being able to slide to the ball for me so much easier. So when people go, oh, we're going to play on clay today, I'm like, oh, thank god, because I'm going to slide to the ball, hit it back and then you know, get back into position. Whereas on hardcot I'm like having a run and prop and it's not fun. Other than those places, like, was there somewhere that really surprised you that you would turn up and go, God, I never imagined this would be here. I mean, you can imagine like a tennis center or something in the Alps, or you just of course it's going to beautiful. It's like Indian Wells. You know, it's a tennis guard. Now, there's just such a spectacular It's why it wins, you know, tournament of the Year every year because it is spectacular the mountains in the background. Was there a place where you're like, shit, I did not imagine this would be here.
Yeah, I mean the courts in Lapause, Bolivia. I mean playing if anyone grew up playing high altitude tennis like I did in New Mexico, go to Lapase and you're playing at twelve fourteen, there is no air. I don't know why you play tennis there, but still they persevere, so like there's that kind of place where there's just no business playing zennis there. That was remarkable. And in terms of you know, stunning scenery when I had road trips New Zealand's yeah, you just stumble upon some places that's like, who put a court?
See, this is the problem. This is why no one comes from New Zealand who's good, because they're like too busy looking around. They're not actually actually working hard. They're just like, Eh, let's go for a high plata, you know, because it's so beautiful there. I mean Queenstown, as I said, is so beautiful.
Are there places that if there were you know, another one or more of a focus maybe as private homes. Is there anything that you feel like maybe is you know, I can only imagine you could do ten of these books?
Sure, you know.
For you what's like, I mean the Portafino, which has been photographed so much through the years. But I liked how you how the photo in the book was actually taken, because it's often taken from the other direction. And I actually liked this photo of it because it shows you the undulation in the mountain, you know, going down to the court. But that has got to be one of the most spectacular you weren't there, didn't you recently?
Catin?
I mean, I have never been there, So that's definitely on my bucket list of things to do. And that's sort of what I'm saying about, like that's given me the love of tennis actually going hit tennis balls because Kitlyn knows how I feel. She plays more than I like I've ever done in my like it feels like so it makes me go, you know what, I'd be lovely to go and hit some tennis balls there and experience it. But I have to say, like through them all, like the photo, I think it's one of my favorite photos that you did in here of the photo and the court in Sedona, like that place to me just looks amazing.
They talk about that's a.
Am as the sun was coming up well and the light was it was just it's at the base of this canyon and it's you know, the reds are just incredible.
Is that it Was it a public court or was that a private Was that a country club? But you can go there.
I have played on those courts.
Yeah.
They also make a very good prickly paar Margarita Renee. So I feel like that, Oh, I mean.
See that's what I need. I need that probably to going on the court, but I want to be able to also enjoy it and not be drunk. Well I'm playing tennis, that's that's a great thing. I mean I have been to the hotel to cap but I didn't play on the tennis courts.
What's the what's the yeah, like, what's on the checkbox for what's the dream list?
Now?
Now that you've been so many places, like was there a place you were like, we just can't.
Get to this one?
I mean I would go do as Renee suggested, I would go to the Italian coast again and then jump over to Croatia, like I would go to Luba Chich's academy again, which is insane and insanely hard to get to.
Well, there's a great place in Bold too. It's an island off of Split which I actually played at. And you know, as a kid, yeah, and as a kid you don't appreciate like old beauty because coming from Australia, I was like, these beaches are rocky. This is awful. Now I'm like, oh my god, it's amazing.
Right.
Sort Of the more you travel, the more you see things, and that's another opportunity for people to actually go out and see things that are different to what they used to. I mean, growing up in Australia, we walk on beaches that squeak when you walk on the sand because it's so perfect, right, So I was like, oh, gross, rocky you know. Now I'm like, oh, I can't wait to go back to the coast of Croatia and the coast of you know, of Italy. And someone said you should go to Apulia. It's so beautiful, blah blah, and I was like, yeah, I'm going to do that. It's on my bucket list. My best friend's been twice, and all these sort of things. And I started I started actually looking at some airbnbs and I was like, wait, I've been there. I had actually been to this area.
You didn't remember it.
I just didn't appreciate it. I'm like, wait, I flew in a Bari Wait. I played a tournament there. And I played a tournament there because you're, you know, an uneducated, not very we old seventeen year old or sixteen year old going to play in a twenty five because that's where they all the tens and twenty five. So I just scattered all around Europe and you don't appreciate these old, beautiful tennis centers, you know, And yeah, I'd been to all this area.
Do you think that that's still true? I bet it is still true where a lot of players are kind of like, oh, I just see the it's side of the locker room. I just see the like the.
Offense in the courts might be beautiful and the area might beautiful, but the locker rooms probably aren't so great. So we were like, God, get us out of here. Yeah, so you know, just just keep that in mind if you decide to pop off.
I didn't really realize that until I started talking to pros about Miami, because I was like, oh, what a shame. Hard Rock is like such a gross version of events, Crandon. It's so beautiful because you're good in keep a skin. It's beautiful. It's near the city, the water, and all the pros are like that place was a dump. The locker rooms were terrible, and you're just like, oh, this is right, this is your office. Like you're looking for totally different things out of this than me, which is like, is this a nice environs to be in?
Fascinating the first year of doing the book. I traveled with the tours, and then I would spend the first few days or the last few days of a tournament at the event and then branch off and go do my own things. So like Buenos Airis, Rio, Bastad, Gustade, small tournaments like Oakley and Jamore and Lisbon, ester Reel, et cetera. Beautiful and you know, you get to go to these places, but you see the players, like you know, when I was in Buenos Airis, that's buenas Arius Law Tennis Club, the you know, yea soul of Argentina tennis. Famous and gorgeous and it's beautiful. And the players are either in the locker room, tucked away at this pop up event because they turned the club into a venue with temporary stands. They're either tucked away or they're back at the Marriotte. Yeah, and which is the most boring place in the city. But that's the that's their routine.
Yeah, I mean, listen, I can attest. I've been to Paris probably thirty five times, never been to the Louth. Like it's just it's just it's you go. You get off the plane, the transportation picks you up, takes you to the hotel. You like, first thought is when am I practicing? Am I going to practice day? What time I'm practicing tomorrow? Okay? Who am I practicing with? Or I got to get my rackets strong? Okay, what's the tension?
Like?
What's the court speed like? And you get there and oh, that's all you care about, and then you're like, okay, when is my match? What's the draw?
Like?
This is all you care about? And then you're like, okay, got to get some food, I got to go to bed, I gotta play tomorrow. I gotta practice tomorrow. And you're not appreciating the world around you, and then you care about oh, the draw came out, and then you're shitting your pants because then you got your first round set. And then you go and play your first round and you hopefully win, and if you win, you think about the next and then if you lose, you're like, when are we getting out of here? Where are we going to next? You don't even care about let's do a little sight seeing. I think as you get older you try and do that a little bit more. But quite frankly, it's just it's the one bummer, and I think it's the one thing that I would probably say to players is like take it in a little bit more. I don't know if you went to Strasbourg, but like strass for example, is I went there. This is a true story. I went there a couple of times. It wasn't a very big tournament on a tour, and so it was not like a bucket list for particularly when I became really good at doubles and I wasn't like, ugh, there's a small tournament for the French Open. We didn't need to play right, And I never went and really looked around the city at all. So when people say, oh, you're gonna go to strasbogh go Strasbourg sucks, right. And then I went there as a coach and oh my god, Strasbourg is one of the most beautiful little towns in the world. And I was like, God, I never appreciated this world that I get to experience and be a part of at all because I didn't care. All I wanted to do was win and get out of there.
That was it.
It was the hotel nice that was also part of the thing. And it was just like never, I never ever. I was like it was like I went to Strasbourg for the first time as a coach, going holy shit, this is the most beautiful town I've ever been in. And I just walked around the whole time going, oh my god, Oh my god, look at that so beautiful. And you know, that's the thing is a probably you don't do and I would stress the players, and I think they're better at it now, but just get out and actually take advantage of the places you get to go to as a professional tennis player. You don't have a lot of us off time. I understand it, but make an effort.
Yeah, I feel like one of the things that my hope with tennis becoming more of a lifestyle, popular sort of commodity is now that people are playing it more, they will attend and vote with their wallets to go to places that have both excellent tennis but also excellent kind of environs. And I think, what so much of the system that as you were describing that Renee, it makes total sense to me. And it's also like, this is why tournaments try to incentivize players to come with nice hotels a lot of times with appearance fees, and they don't care that much about the city and the culture because they're just trying to put on the best event that could really be a pop up anywhere, right. And you use that phrase earlier, Nick, and I want you to expand upon that idea because it seems like to me now that people are going to tennis more as a lifestyle than they were as like people who fervently follow the tour, maybe there's an opportunity for the tour to sort of adjust, or at least for us to you know, highlight some of the tournaments that do both things really well.
Totally. Yeah. You know, something I found, I guess that I wasn't fully expecting was just the number of events that really reshape their image just for the one week of tournament play and which ones are where there are actual tennis facilities to accommodate a tournament, and you do feel the difference there.
Give me an example of the you know, like.
Bestad Sweden on the Swedish Riviera, that's like one of my favorite tournaments in the world. Yeah, Moore, it's a challenge joy a budget more outside of.
Lisbon because people are playing tennis there all the time. Yes, and it's clear that there's.
Like the Barcelona Club too in Barcelona.
It's a beautiful club also the like spiritual home of tennis in Spain. And you know it's too young, of course, you can't be too young. I think it's you know, those those places you really feel the tennis community is showing up for the events, whereas I think a lot of tournaments you just you just feel like it's a run of the mill. Pop up.
Yeah, pop up is a good way to describe it, which I feel like, you know, I.
Mean, I love the I love the Madrid Venue, I love Khama Hika, but it's it's an architecturally insanely unique place.
We call it, you know what, we used to call it as applios the Chipotle Stadium. That's because it feels like you're going into like a Chipotle. I don't know, it's just it's just it has no.
It's just a song with someone, someone from Tennis Channel, and they're like.
I think Andy Roddick actually coined the phrase. I think it was him.
It looks like a franchise.
It just it just looks like a franchise. It's like, oh, we just decided to build something here.
It looks like a dungeon from the outside, and you go inside and you're like, this is is this Spain?
Yeah, yeah, it's so sad.
Yeah h h h.
You know, you go to the Barcelona Open and you feel it a lot more. That's the Spanish, diehard tennis fans show up for that. You go to Stockholm Open, like very intelligent people on tennis show up for that event. And so those are the one that when people ask me if where they should travel to for professional times, you say and Stockholm, I say, Stockholm gestad Rome. It's insane, but I will always say I love the fans in Rome.
Just as oh Rome's great. It's wild, that's wild, It's into the city and it's beautiful. That Tennis Center that was the one place that I used to turn up to and just go, oh yeah, it's just cool.
To be that stadium the greatest city. Daniel Collins player there this past year and like it's just this giant plume of cigarette smoke going up all night and people are having the best time.
Yeah, it's it is. It is arguably one of the best places to go and watch a tennis tournament. And it's I mean, who doesn't love a little bit of pasta. I mean, the players used to turn up there in the players lounge and just be like yeah. I mean it was just like yes, thank you God, we get to come to this amazing tennis facility, had this great tournament with such history, and the food was bonkers off the charts, I mean, like Barada, I mean, everything you can imagine in Italy was in the play as restaurant turns.
And this is the year that I've decided that Italy passes Muster Nick, just for fun, So people who haven't followed the podcast closely along, I've I've really turned down my nose at it, but I've changed my tune in twenty twenty four. You know, its growth is what we call it. You had a very good question that I want to sort of wrap things up with, just because you're a journalist anyway, besides doing these books, are you still going to be writing and contributing as you think about what your next couple books are going to be?
Yeah, I think so. I think I'm very curious if people would want to come on a trip with me through northern Spain to hit some of my favorite tennis places.
Yes, Nick, this is your opportunity.
Put it out there, bro, Yeah, putting it out there into them. I'm manifesting it right now. Yeah, you want to do this French riviera with me and then go to the French Open I'm down.
What's your what's your Instagram? What's your what's your handles?
Just search my name. My instagram is Nick Pachell's. And you know, in terms of writing and books, there is something coming. I can't announce it. Yeah, but there's also so many ideas. Like you were mentioning the first court you ever played on. I would I don't think it would happen, but I would love to do a book of people's first courts.
Yeah, yeah, that'd be cool actually, And it's still there. And sometimes when I go home to Austray and I drive to a certain spot, I go out of my way to drive past it just because it has such Oh I just got a little emotional it. Actually. It's like, man, I started my journey in life here. Like you know, everything that I do, everything that I have in my life, is due to riding my little green BMX bike down Home Street over you know, over Anzac Parade. People in Sydney are like, oh, I know that are over Anzac Parade and stop my bike at Snake Park, you know, and all the little places around there.
Yeah, you doo has that story of the thing.
That's one of my favorite things to do is to stop someone and say, we're in your town, take me to your first whatever sport, it doesn't matter, whatever thing. So like, I'm obviously going to Australia. You know you you met my boyfriend at racket party. Yep, he's from Sydney. You're playing tennis.
Yeah.
The SiGe thing to do, it's like, let's go look at your first court.
Where was his first court? Do you remember you're you're about to get divorced after that com I think I think one thing that I think it's a great idea actually is to take the top you know, X amount of players and maybe players that want to contribute to your next book, maybe to say I want to do a little blurb story on your first court and take a photo of it. And because I think that's cool, because I think it's also important for kids out there, parents out there that think they've got no way of making it on the tour, or their kids not going to be good enough because they're not going to like Moritaglu Academy or which you have in the book as well, which is, you know, obviously beautiful, as is the RAFA Academy in on that Yorka. But but that's not where the reality of most kids start, right Novak Djokovic in a pool indoors.
In the guys got the most slam trophies and probably has the least glamorous beginnings.
And when you see snap Park, you're like, oh, okay, well that's random. It's off the street, he says.
Nobody's asked me. We're my first time.
Okay, well there, yeah, where is it?
Arcadia High School in Phoenix, Arizona, where my grandparents taught high school?
Oh wow, so you were at the high school court were.
My mom and uncle went to high school, a block from their house, covered in dust, cutting through the chains and getting on a court with my grandma at six am in the morning.
It's interesting that you say that not you turn pro, but you went to college. I would say I would argue and say that most kids on tour that are doing really well for themselves all started very meekly. All started on a public court. You know, just grab some balls. I mean, hello, the Williams sisters Compton, you know, like I would argue and say most kids would have started that way and then they progress, maybe get into a junior program, and then they get an opportunity to maybe have a little bit more coaching, YadA YadA. But I'd say most kids start on public courts. So that's the importance of them, which is why the USTA in ten Australia and the French Federation and Wimbledon and all that sort of really need to put their money where their mouths are because most of them are non for profits and make sure that the public courts are up to snuff, make sure the nets are okay, make sure that they don't have holes in the court. Make an effort, because that's where the next Andy Roddick, That's where the next Sloan Stevens, the next Serena Williams, Venus Williams, you know, Sam Stows are like all of the great players that you know from your own country, the rough ill nadals, I mean, they all start. I would say, arguably all of them are just a shitty little public park.
So I mean not that we're mad at looking at pictures of Hotel Captain Interach, but I do think the public court, you know, Oden to the public court is amazing.
Yeah, I need to get that going to so I can go to Australia because my real goal is just to go see Sam and Sam and Ash in Australia and take me to your home courts.
Yeah, well yeah, I'm sure we can make that happen. But that's but that's a really great idea and I think that you should do that. And one thing that I did say to you one of the most okay, so what's the most beautiful tennis facility? I can honestly say that, and it's not in your book, and we brought it up before, is that when I drove into I don't know if you have you been to the Seattle I drove into the gate there to go down. I was playing like a charity exhibition thing there with Lisa Raymond, and we both drove in and went, oh my god. We couldn't believe that that existed that club. So there's so many clubs that you don't even have in the book that I know that you probably are like, yeah, like, there's so many out there. I would just say to people that love tennis, like, get the Tennis Court Book because it will make you want to go to these places and check them out.
I mean, yeah, there will be a deluxe version one day that will have I mean, I have my list of places that I didn't make it all Hollyburn up in Vancouver, Texas, honestly didn't get a whole ton of eleven there.
And you should you know what you should do. You should have everyone that listens to our podcast take a photo of your favorite courts. Take a photo of your favorite courts in your city, in your country, or if you're traveling, if you figure it all out, you should see this place, Nick, like, send it in and send it to tag Racket, tag myself, tag Nique, and let's like get something fun.
Let's have them with the second, third, and fourth books, Nick, you had a great question that I want to end on, which is so you get to decide your dream my itinerary. Maybe some places that you've already been and covered in this book, some places that are yet to be discovered. Who are you taking? And it can't be your boyfriend. In my case, my wife probably wouldn't even want to come. She'd be like, I'm good. Who who? Who is the best tour travel companion about you?
Right now? I could answer that for like, if I just take the subset of people who are in the tennis world.
Yeah, tennis tennis world. Person who would be familiar to our listeners.
Mhm. Okay, Well, I'm a fan of a book club, so I would take Peco with me. Did you know I was just giving her a book the other day. She lives in a building where the first floor is a bookstore in green Point, green Point.
Yes, there you go. I didn't know that all her fans now are going to be going to every building in green Point trying to find her.
I would take I would take Sabalanca because I think she would just be wildly fine.
She would be out every night.
I would want to talk about the psychology of this mass of a life. So I would take uh Daria huh, he gets mind, coach. And I would take Casper Rude so we can go golfing.
Great answers.
You're taking Casper for what reason?
So we can go golfing?
Oh my god, you're hilarious. I thought you were going to say for his oatmeal stallion outfits the Caitlin him. Sure, he is a good looking he is a good I.
Really want to see with Yank. I wanted to do like a New York Times profile of Yank and I'm just gonna go ski with him and talk about tennis, but talk about skiing.
Yeah, manifest that manifest. What about you, Caitlin, I need more time to think what you're talking about next took out of my answers.
I mean, for me, it's hard. Honestly, I think I think turning up at any tennis facility in the world with Billy Jean King would be pretty fucking cool, you know, because my enthusiasm for tennis is pretty high, But it doesn't it pales in comparison to Billy and and honestly her partner Alana, because they play tennis like every day still almost. I mean, I last time I was at their apartment, they were going off to play tennis at like two in the afternoon. They were going off to Randall's Island to go and play little tennis, and I was just like, I just the love that they have, the sport that both of them, and you know, particularly Billy now in her early eighties, like going out and doing that. And then I want while we're there, just Elton John to pop over because nobody loves tennis more than Elton and just I don't know, just to have that enthusiasm and frankly Pink who really is obsessed with tennis. So so that's a pretty cool little group I'd have going. I'd have music and tennis and just all.
The loves the party and legends. You guys answered, but.
You know, tennis people love tennis, like you know, I was just out with you know, out at the Beaver Creek Birds of Prey, a ski event where Lindsay Vaughn made her come back after six years of being out or seven years being out and having a partially like fake knee. Basically she's skiing eighty miles an hour down a hill. But Lindsay, for example, is obsessed with tennis. So it's like these people that get so obsessed with tennis, it would be it would be fun for me to cultivate a group of the best athletes in the world like Lindsay Vionn, like Mikayla Schiffern for example, who also loves tennis, like these sort of people, and take them all around these beautiful places around the world to play tennis with them. You know that are not tennis plies.
Especially everybody's manifesting really cool projects a week five.
Yeah, what do you want to that idea? I'm coming for you.
Listen. All ideas expressed on the Renae Subs podcast are proprietary to the people who said them.
Yeah, and what's yours?
I I don't have a good answer. I'm taking all of yours. I'm taking Casper Rude, I'm taking Petcoat, I'm taking Billy, I'm stealing all of your ideas. I'm taking everybody who's a good time Charlie a Rina Sablanca, people who like to eat, who like to play, who go hard, who are intrepid, who are fearless.
You just you absolutely stolen. Now it's pathetic. Anyway, we're gonna finish.
I'm telling you guys, your answers are great. Happy New Year everyone, in celebration of manifesting all of the amazing things that we want to see happen in the next year, Please do send us your dream tennis courts. Where should Nick and all of us a racket focus our lens. Yeah, maybe we'll pop up and have a party there.
Great.
Yeah, thank you so much for joining us.
Yeah, thanks, that was fun. Happy New Year, Happy New Year to everybody. Everyone, twenty and twenty five. Oh my god, I can't believe it's twenty and twenty five. Next year it's starting. The tennis season will begin in Australia, the place that Caitlin I love it.
I can't wait. And we'll be back next week from Australia.
Yeah.
Thanks for listening.
Thanks for listening everyone, Bye bye,
