Chapter 45: Are Relationships More Trouble Than They’re Worth???

Published Aug 13, 2024, 4:00 AM

When will I know if I should start dating again? How do I create a boundary that is love? And how on Earth is math involved in all of this?

If you’re wondering any of these questions, we’ve got you covered. In the latest episode, Rachel dives in with Dr. Abby Medcalf who provides a humorous and insightful conversation and reveals her secret tips to build long standing, healthy friendships and relationships. 

This is Rachel Go's Rogue.

Welcome back to another episode of Rachel Goes Rogue with your host, Rachel Savannah Lettis. Today is an episode I'm really excited to talk about. I have had dating coaches join me in the past, but today I'm excited to talk to a guest about kind of the next step in that process building healthy friendships and relationships. I'm happy to bring on doctor Abby Medcalf, who is armed with humor, a ton of research in over thirty years of hands on experience. She teaches simple tools and strategies to make all relationships the best they've ever been.

Yeah, so welcome, thank you, thank you for having me. I'm excited to have a great conversation.

Can you define what a successful relationship means to you?

Yes. I always say that success in anything actually is joy and growth. If you've got joy, if you've got growth in a very consistent way, you've got a successful relate. And everything is relationships, so work and home and friends and lovers, and it's all the same. So that is my very simple definition. And you can always check in with yourself and think, like in this relationship at work, or it with this person, or with my mom or whoever my best friend. Do I feel like we have a lot of joy? And do I feel like we're always growing together? Like, is this something where my own growth is supported, where I feel like I can support theirs? If you can answer yes to those, I'm telling you, you're in a healthy relationship.

Awesome, great, great answer. You talk a lot about strengthening the relationship with yourself. Why is that so important?

I will tell you why because in my it's actually almost forty years now, because I am very old. I will tell you that all these years and I've worked in organizations and in schools, and I have done everything. And I will tell you that people tend to blame others for how they feel. We even grow up right here, and you know, you drive me crazy, and you're giving your mother gray hair, and you're whatever, right, we hear these things. So people like to blame others when they're not happy. I'm not happy because my partner's not happy, or you know, they won't change or whatever, And we act like victims in our lives. And that's a big problem. So when you start to really get a strong relationship with yourself and know that you are one hundred percent responsible for every relationship you're in, one hundred percent, not fifty, not forty, not eighty, one hundred percent for every relationship you're in, which pretty much always comes down to boundaries. But we can talk about that later. You're going to be happy. That's where you're going to find joy and growth.

As you were saying this, I was thinking, like for myself, the boundaries. It's so important to recognize in your body when things come up for you. And like when you feel uncomfortable in a certain situation, or you feel triggered, or you starting out angry, you're agitated, that's a sign for you to look at what's going on inside yourself because usually there's a boundary that hasn't been established or communication that needs to be addressed in order for the relationship to continue. Otherwise you're going to hold resentment.

Exactly, And whenever you feel resentment of frustration in any relationship, it's because you don't have a clear boundary. And I will if I can go here, I'll just go out here for a minute. Here's the mistake everyone makes with boundaries. Okay, and I do, like I'm noticing my book behind me. Boundaries made easy, which was a book I put out last year because this is such a thing. The big mistake people make when they're setting is that they think they're setting a boundary and they're not. So they'll say something like, don't talk to me that way, and then the person will talk to them again that way, and they're like, I set a boundary and they trampled it. I hear it all the time. Or I'm really uncomfortable with the way you know we're engaging, so I need you to stop. Those are not boundaries. Those are just how you feel. Those are just saying what is in your world. A boundary always has what I call like teeth. It has a response, not a consequence. You're not punching anyone. Bound I would say boundaries are love. Boundaries are meant to keep people in. Walls are meant to keep people out right, So a boundary is love. It's meant to keep people in. And the way you do that is by being very clear with I don't like you speaking to me that way, and if you continue, I'm gonna need to leave a conversation and we can try again another time. That's a boundary, and if the person keeps doing it, you don't repeat a boundary ever. You don't say it twice, you don't say three times. You don't say, oh I've told them five times, that's on you. If they continue, you just say you know what again. With love, you don't have to get angry or upset because it's not about them, it's about you. You say, I'm you know what, I'm going to go and hopefully we can pick this up another time and it'll go better. That's it. And then you walk away with all your dignity, with feeling good, with not having screened and yelled other person without cutting them off or you know, blocking them on social media or anything else. You just state your boundary and then you follow through so no one can really trample your boundaries without your consent. And people really hate hearing this and it gets very I get a lot of people upset. But if you want to have a happy life, you're going to have to get this part.

And I guess my little tip for those listening would be like, you can't control anybody's actually, you can only control your own. So unfortunately, you can have a reasonable request for someone to do something that would make you feel more comfortable, but if they're not willing to abide by that, then that's information for you to like take that and then change your behavior. And unfortunately it's so hard sometimes because we do love these people and in our lives and we want them in our lives, but you have to prioritize yourself, yep.

And that's the way you keep them in your life actually, right, think about it. People think they're being nice, they don't say anything, and then later you just you know, complain about your friend to another friend. That's not nice, that's not kind, that's not loving. So when you're feeling that way, if you say something to the person, you can again have some growth, have some movement. Or maybe this person isn't for you like in a friendship right, or maybe you have to draw different boundaries with your mother where you don't see her as much as maybe you would. You know, in a perfect world you have a certain relationship. Maybe that's not what this can be, at least not right now. So it's really accepting also where people are at and not judging them for where they're at because they have their own stuff and we can be loving and kind to them too.

Yeah, but they're a right time to get into a relationship.

Ah, I you know, I get asked this a lot. I always say, it's when you will notice right away if it's quote unquote the right because it's not. You know, someone's like, oh I just got divorced a month go, I can't I'm jumping into something, or it's been two years so it's the right time. It's not. There is no right time. That's Number one. How you know is by who you're attracting. If you're going on dates and you realize that the let's say, for me, like if I was going I'm married, actually I can't. But if I was going on dates and I was meeting men who were maybe ain't you know, all hated the Rex or something, you'll notice there's like a theme or you're thinking they seem different at first, and then you get to know them a little and you're like, oh god, this is just like my last Oh my god, you know, or the one before that. That's how you know your energy or the work you've done internally hasn't shifted enough to bring kind of a different kind of person into your life. People. You know that thing we say about relationships, right, my other half, my better half, you know, a half plus a half equal as a whole. And the thing I always say is that's it's a multiplication problem, not an addition problem. And when you have a half times a half, if you remember third grade math, that's a quarter. And how many of us have been in a quarter relationship? How many of us have been like out of half? You know, we're not really in our best way, We don't maybe we don't know yet, we haven't grown enough yet. It's not about blame, but it's where we were, and that person did not bring out the best in us. We did not together create something really great and whole. And that's how you know most of the time your energy, like you talked about, you don't feel good. You don't most And I would say this mostly I want people to think about how they feel when they're away from the person. A lot of times, when we're with a person, we're like, oh, he's so great, and he's so charismatic, and he's just I feel so special with him, which, by the way, sounds like trauma bonding, which I can talk about but I won't even go there right now. But when and then when they're away, they're insecure, they're jealous, they're worried. They're anxious there, and it's like, that's not how you should feel away from your person. If you have to be in their presence to feel good, that's bad. And then the opposite obviously is true if you feel bad with them, but then you go away and go, oh, but there, I was being too mean. I was being too harsh. You know, I was expecting too much. I have to you know, either way, these two feelings should all want. You should feel good both. And that's again how you know that's a good time.

So it would it be fair to say because you did the multiplication equation instead of the addition equation, would it be fair to say that either you have a relationship that is an addition where it is like one half plus one half equals one whole, or you're going to be in a relationship where it's one half times one half equals a quarter.

To me, it's a one times one is one is a whole relationship. Like that's it. It's always multiplication. There are you know you've been in them. I'm sure like they're exponential, they're they're synergistic. There's so much going on it should feel like a whole and you should feel like a whole person in it. This other person doesn't complete you, not you know, something more together. That's just like trauma bonding crap that I listen to. You know, if anyone when I asked someone think of this, if I said to you, like, what, what's your perfect man? You know, when you think about the characteristics of a perfect person to be with, and this again could even be friends. I want to be really clear. I would say things like, the person has my back. I always feel like we're a team. You know that they're going to think of me, or that they're going to think of me first. They're they're always there's a lot of good will, They're thinking of my best interests. Right. I'm never saying, oh, my perfect person, Well, I just feel great when I'm around them. There's just something special. There's just something I can't describe it. That's trauma bonding. That's not that's not your person, because you should be able to really say what those things are if you can't describe it, if it just feels so something. I get terrified when clients say that to me. As soon as they start talking that way, I'm like, oh God, here we go. And by the way. Trauma bonding is not that you both have the same trauma and you're coming together. Trauma bonding is just basically, my dysfunctional past and your dysfunctional past have some kind of weird dovetailing. You know, they sort of go together in good ways because it can feel exciting, but also in really unhealthy ways, and that's sort of how that happens. But yeah, hopefully that answers that question, sorry for me.

Yeah, yeah, no, it does. It does. So you're basically saying it should always be a multiplication equation when you are in a relationship or a friendship with somebody else and you should be a whole person away from them and then coming together. It's one times one equals one, so you're still one whole person.

Yeah, it's great, right, No fractions, no less than, no more than. We just starre this and we're really we come together as a whole thing.

Yeah. Yeah. Should you feel like you've healed yourself before you're ready boats to be in a relationship.

It's so funny. I did an episode of my own podcast not long ago about should you get in a relationship if you're in therapy because someone one of my listeners had asked, so I was like, oh, I'll do this. So I literally just answered this, And the short answer is this that I can meet with someone for so long, like do therapy with them when they're single. Right, we'll do the work. It's great, they're growing, they're changing. And then sometimes I'm the one who has to push and like you're ready, like go, you know, start dating. Let's see, because that's where all you're crazy comes out, like you can be It's kind of like learning to play tennis and not playing against anybody, do you know what I mean? Like until you're on the court, like in a game, you're not gonna know if your skills are good. So I always say there's no there's no perfect time, and there's no being one hundred percent ready. Hopefully you're ready enough that you're not going to lose yourself and go into some depression if it doesn't work. But I do want you to try and see what works and what doesn't and oh yeah this came out, and then come back to therapy and let's talk about that because that's where the real need is.

M If someone's getting out of abusive relationship, how long do you typically recommend not dating.

I it's funny. I as much as I want to say that, I don't say that, like, oh it's no time I tell. I tell people at least six months. I do if it's been an abusive relationship, and if there's a lot of work to do so that you don't get into another abusive relationship, because that is the worst worst. When I have somebody who you know is coming along, and it might be longer, but if it's it should be at least that long. As you're working, as you're dating yourself, as you're learning yourself, as you're healing yourself, it should be at least that long. So I do when I have clients who and I have, I say, you know, for six months when I'm going to talk about dating. And at six months we can have a new conversation. Let's see where you're at. And usually the person at that point it's nice to just put it out of your head so you're not even worried about it. And at that point they often say to me, I don't I don't think I'm quite there yet. I'm like, all right, let's let's wait a little longer.

If someone feels like the spark is gone in their relationship. What can you do to reignite it?

Yeah, oh gosh, I talked about it. I have a lot of episodes, so this two people always ask. So I want to say this first. You know, intimacy and sex are different things, and I think people immediately think of and I'll say with love, men especially think of sex right away, but women do too. As how we'll reignite you know, sex, it's it's sex and without the intimacy, and intimacy is because it's emotional closeness, without that vulnerability, without that trust, we it all falls apart on the other side. So the thing you really want to build is trust, and that's how you get the spark back. And trust is made up of three things. People think I trust them or I don't, and that's not true. Trust is three things. It's goodwill, which I mentioned before, is that thinking this person has my back and my best interests at heart. It's honesty, of course, right what we say, Integrity that I'm honest, you know I can believe what you say to me. And competence. So if you know you say you're gonna beat the restaurant five, you're there at five. You you know say you're gonna take the garbage out. You take the garbage out the when these three things. And the problem is a lot of people will say to me, well, I know, you know, when my partner's always really honest with me, like I don't think they're really cheating or anything. You know, they're they're very honest and they tell me, but they don't really. But they also feel like their partner's a little selfish and doesn't really have their back first, you know, isn't thinking of them first when they make choices. So I like this. I call it like the trust triad. I like it because you can just zero in on where you have to work because when you just say real trust, it's such a big like thing. Build trust? What do I do? So what you do to build intimacy, to get a spark back is build trust because when you have that, think of that we're vulnerable, we're sharing at a deeper level. We want to have sex all the time. You know, we're feeling so connected right and sex is really fun because we're willing to try different things. We're not thinking like how's you know, how's my butt look? I have to back out of the room, you know, like we're not doing that because we fully trust this person. And I think people miss that boat a lot when they talk to me about, you know, being having a spark again. And then the other thing I say to focus on is what I call micro connections, So it's the little connections you have and putting those in. One of my favorites easy for people to walk away with today is always greet your partner at the door every single time they come home. If you're you know, whoever's home first, whoever's home, you greet at the door. And I say greet like greet like a golden retriever, like how your golden would be if you walked in the house. So it's that beautiful thing where you stop with you know, if it's kids or homework or cooking or working on your laptop or whatever you're doing. Stop. I mean obviously for in the middle of the meeting. If you work at home, all right, I'll give you a minute, but leave what you're doing. It takes two minutes. Even in a meeting. You could say, oh my gosh, I need a bio break. I'll be right back. Go to the door when they come in. Just be there like full greeting, Hey, it's really oh my god, I missed you. I'm so happy you're home. Make out a little if you want, hug whatever, just really connect. It takes of time. This with my man, and it takes a it's about thirty seconds, and it is so huge to reconnect like that. And if you don't have thirty seconds, like what are we even talking about? I don't even know how to help you, you know, And so to just have a minute like that, just that thirty seconds of true connection like hey, good, you know, eyes, maybe full body, a hug, something, and then go back to what you're doing. But the you know, someone comes home and you're like, how is your day fine? You know, like you're yelling to each other. There's nothing there and you haven't seen each other. Like connect micro connections, little connections. Really think of those and that will help bring the spark back too.

Yeah, if we look at this question building trust through the lens of friendship, say that there was a betrayal that happened, and you know you had to take some time apart, but now you're coming together and wanting to build a friendship again. How does one rebuild a friendship using that triad meth.

That same thing very much. If there's been a betrayal in a friendship, right, you really have to think of that. And so I do love this when you break it down and think. Okay, first of all, before you even go there, I would ask you why you want to be friends with this person again? You know they have betrayed you. It doesn't mean that wants a cheater, always a cheater, thing or whatever people say is bs. You know I was, I'm a recovering heroin addict. I mean like people change. You know, I'm very different than what I was then, and we all change and that's the beauty of people. So getting in your head that someone's always going to be that way. But and I will also say but and also trust your instincts. What you know, why are you afraid of being alone without this best friend? Are you afraid of who you are without this person? Are you like, is there fear driving your want to reconnect? Fear of them going off and having a great life? This is true and romance too. You know, fear never made a relationship better. Your motivation has to be from a love based emotion, compassion, kindness, connection, joy, ease, growth, You know right. So that's the first thing I would say is figure that out, because that's a big question. I see a lot. I have so many clients who want to be friends again with someone, and I ask like, why, what do you may they're trying to recapture a time in their life. It's all fear based. But if it's love based, if it's on one of those other things, then I would say, then break it down. So if there's a betrayal, then obviously the big thing is integrity. You don't think the person's honest. They lie to you in some way. Clearly they don't put your needs first and have your back right. And but the third thing I would look at is that competency. Are they competent to be what you need? And a best friend? Like? What do you need in a best friend? What does that mean to you? Do you know what I'm saying? My thing is that I have a caller, my wife, you know, my best friend. Everyone should have a wife and a husband. I say, that's the goal. My little wifey. You know, whenever there's never judgment, that's my thing. I mean never. And I've done some horrible things, you know, We've been friends like thirty years, like I've definitely been an asshole and done stupid things and whatever, not routinely, but and she is never think good. She's always compassionate first, you know, like are you okay? Like that's her first response, Well you okay? Are you all right? That's her first response every single time for thirty years. That's what I need. Then I can be vulnerable, then I can share the thing, then we can go there. So you have to decide, you know, you got to really think, like what is this thing I'm looking for? What do I need? I notice that people focus on what they want when they don't get what they need. So it's like, well, you don't call me first. You know, I need a friend who calls me first. No you don't. What is that? What kind of crap is that? What kind of keeping score bs? Is that? That is not why you're I could care less if I don't text back Ronda, my bestie. She just assumes I was busy. She assumes something else happened. She doesn't take it personally. She knows I love her and we'll catch up later. Like there's no none of that for me. That's what I need. So you have to think like if you're focused on your friend not being you know, they don't make plans. Ever, I always have to make the plans. That's the stuff I hear or I always have to text them first. What is it that you really need that you're not getting that. That's a representation of what is that representing to you? And that's how you use the triad for that. You know, I want to know that they it seems like when they go off in their life, they don't think about me at all. So there's again that goodwill piece. So that's what you have to build and you have to talk about that, how it shows up for you what you're looking for, and you have to very honest conversations both ways. And by the way, just the betrayer was also obviously missing something in the relationship that they would ever do that. So you know, it's a two way street. It's always a two way street. It's not you know, if you sit and just be the victim and the betrayal, then where are you right? You can't you can't continue the relationship with a friendship or a romance as a victim. It's not going to work.

Great answer, can you talk about compatibility and relationships and compatibility in friendships. What are the main markers that someone is compatible with you and and you grow and become more compatible.

Yeah, yes, and yes and yes. And I love that you said compatible and not people. I think focus too much with friends and with lovers with that we like to do the same things. That has nothing to do with compatibility. And that, by the way, is the problem with dating appspot, because you know, you're like, oh, I ski, I want someone who skis, and I do this, and I want someone who does this, and that loses a lot, right, all the stuff we're talking about. So compatibility to me is that. And I will tell you my man we are he's from upstate New York and I'm from the city. Like we have very different like country mouse, city mouse things and look like he loves being outdoors and exercising and I just want to wear stilettos and I no oreo like I you know, like we really on the outside have nothing in common kind of, but our values are the same, our humor is the same. Like there's this way that we have this incredible compatibility. So I would, again, what do you need versus what do you want? I need someone who listens. I need someone who has my back. I need someone who thinks of me, maybe even before he thinks of himself. Not all the time, but a good you know. Sometimes I need someone who's going to disagree with me, but be non judgmental and kind in the disagreement. You know what I mean? These are what I need. That's compatibility. Now, when I met Jerrie, he wasn't as emotionally. His emotional IQ wasn't as high as it is now, as you can imagine, right, you know, psychologists, it's we're the worst, right, Like, who wants to be with us? I don't know. I don't know. I'm always thinking, thank you for staying with me, you know. But I've taught him things over time. He's so funny. He always reads my books and my blog. You know. He's like, oh, I'm learning, you know, and he'll he'll bring out a tool at home, Like that's what I want, someone who wants to learn and grow. And that's compatibility. Do you have the same ideas about where you want to be and more important, how you want to feel? When I tell couples to make goals every year and friends too, I do it with my friend. When you make goals every year, don't make make feelings goals. I want to feel safe, I want to feel I want to feel enthusiastic. I want like what a great you know, January is not too far away. Like, make a goal for how you want to feel as a couple, Make a goal for how you want your friendship to feel, and stay on that track. That and then your other kind of goal. You know, I want to be happy and enthusiastic at work. You know, guess what when I something comes at me, like getting asked to be on your podcast, I'm like, well that make me happy? Is that it makes me enthusiastic? Yes, so let me do it. That's how you can actually decide what the doing part is by when you have how you want to feel first. When you do that, your whole life changes.

Hmmm. I love that. I love that so much. And you're saying that you teach your husband Gary so much about human psychology, obviously because you're a psychologist. Do you learn things from him? What does you in that relationship?

Oh my gosh, so much patience. I I like to skip steps and like jump things. And you know, he was he's ex Navy and he's just like a rule guy and does the thing. You know, he's I'm I'm not risk averse. I'll try And there's a but again, there's a compatibility and non judgment around it. And here's the biggie to take away. What you want is a preference. It's not right or wrong. Like I'll have couples say to me, well, I'm like Gary and I. He would say, maybe you used to I'm a saver. He's a saver and I'm a spender. Right And no, no, no, everybody spends in a relationship. Okay, everybody spends money in a relationship. It's just that savers have decided what it's okay to spend on. So it's such bs to say someone's a savor and someone's a spender. It's a preference. It is a prefer and if you honor it as a preference, you can really come together. It is not right to want more sex or wrong to want less sex. It is not right to want to go out more and wrong to want to stay in more. These are preferences. And when you can understand that and get rid of the judgment, it completely transforms a relationship and then you really work on If you're a team. If we're a team, if that's the value I really hold, then we will as a team decide how to address this and what to do next, as opposed to you're over there and I'm over here, and we're polarized, and I'm trying to get you to come on my side. If you're on opposite sides of a friendship, of a love relationship, of any relationship, you're in trouble. This is you're in a lot of trouble. So you have to get rid of the sides thing, and you have to understand that everything's a preference and there's no right or wrong, and that's a hard one to go. So yeah, so Gary would not agree that he won't spend I'm with someone who won't spend fifty dollars on a pair of sneakers and I'm wearing Stelle McCartney shoes. You know, like we are very I'm like bougie as hell. He not at all, Like sometimes yeah, like how much was that bag? Oh my gosh. But again we're open about it. We support each other and do you know what I mean? When you find your partner's happiness, you allow things that because they are not because you have to be right, and that's how you succeed, and that's how you grow.

What are some of the biggest reasons relationships ultimately fail.

The biggie is that the real reason they fail is because there's competition. I say this all the time. Couples always come to me and say and again, friends too will say, oh, we don't communicate. Right, you know what's the biggest problem in your relationship? Don't communicate. That's not the problem. That is the symptom of the actual cancer. The cancer is that you compete. You compete for you know, Oh, you went out with your friends on Friday, so I get to go out on Saturday. You spent money on this, so I get to spumy on this. And when you have kids it gets worse. It's like, well, you took Jack to piano on Friday, so I'm gonna take Sophie to baseball on Tuesday. We there's so much of this tip for tat keeping score. And when you keep score again, it's like a game. You know, it's not your turn to put away the dishes. That's my favorite. It's not your turn to put away the dishes. If you can put if I can put away the dishes before I leave. It's one less thing for him to do later. I'm happy to do it because right there you have to get out of that competitive keeping score, watching what they do comparing it to what you do. That is the number one reason in my forty years of experience in multiple even different countries, is the real reason things fail for friendships too. It's competing. Ohh yeah, you've got to be happy. You know, you get a promotion or something really great comes your way. Oh my gosh, I'm so happy for you, as opposed to oh, so you're gonna be gone all the time now because now you're whatever. You know, maybe friends from my childhood be like, oh you have you have a PhD. Now you think you're better than us. It's like, I, no, I don't at all. What are we like? Aren't you thrilled that someone like you know, like that this was something I accomplished or wrote books or whatever. You know. This is Whenever you get any of that edge, that's a big problem, and that's what takes people down because they don't have your best interest at heart because you can't trust them. That's what ends up breaking down the trust.

So what happens when, say a friendship, you start noticing whoa, it seems like there's some sort of competition here. It seems like maybe this person, like I'm feeling like I can't share full because they seem to react a certain way when I am saying I'm doing some of these things. Where do you go from there?

So here's my favorite. So I always one of the little things I say is, don't sack a relationship. Sac don't offer suggestions, give advice, or criticize. And so when we tell people what they are, you know, you seem really competitive. You know you're acting really funny. When I share this stuff. Whoever has said, oh you're right, I'm so sorry, right, Like no one responds with like, oh yeah, my bulb went off, thank you so much.

Right, You're gonna get defensive when you hear that.

Actly, So don't sack, don't offer suggestions, give advice, or criticize. Instead, you want to ask what I call collaborative questions. So if someone's acting that way, right, if you're noticing that they're sort of doing this thing, what people get into is like I have to share how I feel. It's like, okay, maybe eventually could you just ask a question. Maybe you're wrong, you know, feelings aren't facts. We don't know anything yet, so i'd much rather you asked a question like, hey, when I said I got you know, maybe you told a friend like when I said I was going to do this podcast it, I don't know, how did you feel when I said that? Now here's what happens ninety timescent on the time, so get ready. People will tell you what they were thinking, not what they're feeling. Oh well, I was just thinking, that's great. You know, you're doing your thing, and I'm glad you're doing your thing. Okay, but how are you feeling? Like? Were you were you worried? Were you concerned? Were you you know, you're happy for me? Like what we were you feeling this? I'm telling you. Sometimes they'll keep going to thoughts. People have such a hard time with a feeling thing, and you just have to stick with it with love, with you know, loving intention. And what happens sometimes is that people are just concerned. Maybe someone and I'm just making this up about your life, but maybe a friend thought this was too soon to do it, or maybe they thought, oh, she's going to get criticized about it. And I, and I love her and I don't want her to get criticized, so there's sort of so it seems like they're acting funky, like they're not happy for you, but they're worried about you actually, or maybe it was a parent or someone who knows. So unless you ask, you don't know. And a lot of times people don't even know why they're acting funny or don't even know that they are. They're you know, the subconscious is ruling the day, right, so they don't get it. Here, the best piece of research you'll ever have is this. It's from Timothy Wilson. It's that our conscious brains process information at a rate of forty bits per second. So consciously you and I are talking, you're processing at a rate of forty bits per second, but our subconscious are unconscious brains process at a rate of eleven million bits per second. Eleven million. So people don't hear what you say, they hear what you mean. So when that alignment isn't there, and you know, we've all talked to someone at work who said all the right things and we thought they were full of crap, right, Like everyone's had this, you're and you can't pinpoint it. It's your subconscious that pinpoint. There was something out of alignment. What they were saying wasn't matching something else, and you picked up on it. And you can call that energy vibration whatever you want to call it, but it's it's science. I mean, it's science. So we're picking up on subtle cues that we don't even know we are. So your friend might not know that you're picking up on that eleven million. So you're getting something. And a lot of times people will deny it. I'm telling you right now. They'll say, like, no, I'm really happy for you. I don't know what you're talking about. That's why you don't label it, because then they just really go there. And instead you'll say, okay, I don't know it, just you know, is there anything? Then I would ask another question, is there anything you think I should be worried about doing this? You know, you might ask a friend, is there anything you think I'm missing about doing this podcast? Is there any like? Tell me, I want to know the truth. Is there anything you're worried about or thinking about with me doing this? And that's what you'll get answers. People love to tell you what they're worried about. And that's where they'll get more real and maybe it's that they were worried about you. Maybe they'll say, well, I'm wor worried that you're so busy already. I don't know, it just seems like you're always so busy. And then you might say, do you are you worried? I want to have time for you, like for our friendship. Is that something we should think about? Do you see how this went from like they're not happy for me, I'm pissed to maybe we have a conversation here we haven't had, and maybe they'll say to you, yeah, you've been really busy.

I don't know.

Our friendship hasn't felt so strong lately, you know, like you have a real conversation because you're not defensive and you're answering that eleven million and then they come to where you are. So that is the way. Don't sack ask questions and don't try to ask a question that's a suggestion, like have you thought of doing X? You know that's still a suggestion. But can you tell me more about that? Is my favorite collaborative question. Can you tell me more about whatever you know? Like how you're feeling, or what you thought about that, or what I said earlier that I said, could you tell me more? Could you tell me more? Great? But even something like that, My favorite if you know, if you have Missmax mismatched sex drives, let's say that comes up a lot in relationships, is to say, instead of saying, you know, I want more sex or I want less sex, or I don't like how you did that, I don't like how you went down on me or something, you know, instead of saying that, because again people don't react nicely. My favorite question is to ask someone else what would you like to see more of in our sex life? It is the best question. You will get so much good information and they might start to say, well I don't like when they're like no, no, no, not what you don't like? What? What do you want to see more of? And sometimes that first answers, well I want to have sex more. I'm like, yeah, okay, but what do you want to see more of in it? And that conversation is amazing. No one's defensive, no one's upset, no one's felt criticized or judged, and it's great. It's growth. You know, we're doing it together. It's like a team. And you can even ask the other person and did you want to ask me what I'd like to see more of? If you don't, it's cool, but you could yea. And usually because a conversation has been open and friendly, they'll say, well, okay, yeah, what do you want to see more of? And you can have this bigger conversation. But you can ask that in a friendship, what would you like to see more of in our connection? What would you like to see more of? In how we spend our time? What would you like to see see the more of? You're talking about what you do want, not what you don't want, and it's very obvious what you don't want when you hear about what people do want. So instead of getting there and feeling defensive and angry and frustrated and resentful all lovely feelings, we get to feel like we're going towards something because then you can give such right like so if I, you know, came home from work and grewd you at the door, would that feel good? You know, like, yeah, let's do that. Let's try that. You know, you start to write, get on it, and there's an enthusiasm and of growth together. So that's my favorite little tool.

Yeah. I was just going to say, after you were talking about the end see and asking what you would want more of in an intimate way with a partner, you can probably apply that to friendship too, and you use that as a clarity question so that you can start building that friendship in the direction that you have.

Yeah, yep, it's great and you'll feel good doing it. You're not afraid to have that conversation. Most people are afraid to have a conversation and avoid it because they're worried about conflict, and most people are very conflict avoidant. So there's no conflict here. Hey, what would you like to see more of in our friendship? What would you like to see so you'll actually have the conversation. It's so much better, so much better. Yeah.

Yeah, and I'm sure the other person will feel hurt too, like.

Oh, I really value that.

Yeah, Okay. How can you get over the fear of rejection in a relationship but also in a friendship because making friends as an adult is very more difficult than it was in our childhood years.

It really is. You know, there's the number one fear all humans have from a biological perspective is being rejected or abandoned, end of, end of there's nothing else that's it, that's at the very very bottom. And we're built that way, DNA up right, because if you got rejected out of the Klan, you were going to die. Right. So it's been a human homo sapien imperative to be accepted and there is to understand it is number one. So I'm worried about being you know, I'm worried. I'm scared about this is number one because then you start to again align those forty and eleven million bits, you start to get those like in line. There is no one easy way to get over your fear of rejection or abandonment. However, it's really what we've seen from the research that works is mindfulness. Mindfulness is the key is if you were in your moments, because in the moment, it's like here I am, I'm at a mixer and I'm gonna say hi to see you know, I'm gonna walk up and I'm gonna remember you know, you're being mindful. You're in your moment. You're in the here and now non judgmentally. Not I'm a loose I want to say this really quick before I go to self awareness and mindfulness are two different things. Self awareness is judgmental. It's by definition, I'm judging things about myself. I'm saying, like, for me, I'm a little controlling, I'm very controlling. That is like, so I'm very self aware, I'm controlling. The problem is I'm not always mindful about my controlling behavior. That makes sense, like I'll be in a moment being controlling and then I'm like, oh god, I'm doing it. That's the difference. But when i'm doing it, when I catch myself or if my kids do, or my heavy does or someone catches it, the important thing is not to be judging myself what's wrong with me? Why did I do that? And instead to be like, okay, let's get let's take a breath, let's get in the moment. I'm gonna stop being stop being controlling right now. And that's what you can do, and you can ship flip the script right there. So mindfulness helps you be in those moments of knowing. The problem is that we act on that autopilot. And so think of that eleven million bits. If I'm walking up to someone and I haven't done mindfulness and I haven't checked in with myself. What's my energy? Like if I'm going on a first date with someone and I'm sitting at the table and I'm waiting, and my energy is like, oh, what if they don't like me? What if they don't guess what they're picking up on? I probably shouldn't like them. I probably I call it a wobble. There's a wobble. They're getting the inconsistency because you're there, like looking all good and you got your nails done, You're all happening. You're sitting there and you're looking so cute, but inside you're worried or like, what's wrong with this guy? There's always something wrong every guys something wrong. He's picking up on that. It doesn't matter that your words are fabulous, it doesn't matter that you're saying all the right things. And then he's like, what's wrong with this chick? Like this girl? Like what's up with this woman? Because she's saying things but I get a different feeling and so that feels like a red flag? Do you know? You know what I'm saying? And then we're picking up on each other's red flags where there really aren't any. There's just some insecurity totally.

Yeah. Yeah, it sounds very, very very a very anxious attachment energy.

Yep, there you go, an avoidant attachment energy. You'll do the same thing. Yeah, you'll sit there like it doesn't work out, who cares? You know, you can be too avoidant with it too, and then either way it doesn't feel good. Like, oh, this person is saying they're looking for a commitment, but there's something I'm picking up that they're not mm And a lot of people have this with someone else. So like this guy says he wants somebody, but he's not, Like I don't know, I felt like he wasn't.

Yeah, how do you balance being present in the moment and practicing that mindfulness and just like being fully there in dating or in friendship. And sometimes this happens to me where I'm like, Okay, now I know how to fully be present in my body and and like be in the moment and like we have magnificent energy and connection.

But then I kind of get too lost in the moment and I'm not thinking too far ahead, and then I'm you know, but then I'm told like, but you don't want to think too far ahead because then that you get like anxiety or you know, you're not living in the moment, So how.

Do you balance that? That's still something that I haven't mastered yet.

Yeah, I think you're I love that you would get into. We call that a flow state, when you get kind of you know, when you're sort of lost in something I love. If you're in a flow state, I don't know what you have to worry about or think about.

So let me tell you it's it's with dating men who are are have narcissistic characteristic traits, and or men who are not healthy or healed. And so I'm now I've gotten much better with identifying the red flags and setting clear boundaries and removing myself from the situation before things get too out of hand and you get too attached. So I think maybe that might be the answer. But as I'm dating now, I'm like, I think I'm like dating to meet somebody that I can feel like I can be fully present in the moment. And I guess that's part of the trust building and like getting to know someone before falling in love and all of those things.

I love it. Well, I'd say a few things for that. One is, if you're present in the moment, you know how you're feeling. So for I have a client who's dating right now, and the guy dropped her off. They met somewhere right, but it was she walked and in this little town and he met her and he's driving and he said, oh, I insist on driving you home, and she led him and then he wanted to come in and she let and I said to her, he shouldn't even act like that, and she's and she said, you know what, I felt funny, But I was trying to be nice. You know. I didn't want to seem like uptight. I didn't want to seem a certain way. I was like, ah, so you know that's the thing. I think we do feel something in the moment. I think you're probably your instincts are way better than you think they are, and so you're questioning because you've grown.

And right now that you say that, it's actually very true, because I was drinking a lot in these types of relationships. So yes, now that I've cut alcohol out of the equation, it's like I can listen to that voice a lot clearer now.

Yeah, well, and think of out why you were drinking. So your good instincts were always there but want in a moment or being caught up in something. We let that go for a while and we write. And so we use alcohol or pod or people use all kinds of things too. It's a buffer, that's what alcohol does. It's a buffer between you and the other person, between true intimacy. So it allows you to stay in something while muting right, all all the red flags or all the you know, all the things you know. And so yeah, I always encourage people like on those first dates, never don't ever drink anything like just or one glass over the course of the evening. But if you and and notice how much they drink on a first right, So when I go out, of course, what I'm saying to people is, oh, I don't drink, you know. And if anyone had a strong reaction to that, even that, I can tell, I could tell right away, right, like why are you having such a strong who cares? It's like I said, I don't even I don't eat broccoli, Like would you be upset if I said I don't eat broccoli like, no, I'm allergic to broccoli. I don't think you'd care. I don't think you'd be trying to shove broccoli down my throat at dinner. So if they're like pushing, well you can't have one drink really again, boundaries right away. But women especially want to be nice. We don't want to appear frigid or angry or anal or type A or whatever. Ah, I'm so tired of it. So I know, you know, I can tell I've known you a whole half hour, and I can tell that you already know, and you don't trust it. And every I'm telling you I talk to women over and over and then too, they already know, but they don't trust what they know. They think somehow or they want what it is so bad? But he's so good looking, or he has such a good job, or he you know. And by the way, on the list of my dream man, nowhere on there to say how much money he should make, or how tall he had to be, or anything else, because what we really need that has nothing to do with Yeah.

Yeah, If you are attracted to somebody who does drink, is that.

A bad thing? How do you.

Gauge like is this is this a red flag that I need to look at? Or is this okay? Because this guy's behavior doesn't change when he drinks. You know after dating a few alcoholics, that's definitely like a big thing on my radar.

Yeah, as it should be. Yeah, and I'm I'm married to a normy. We call them like people who can just tell I think the big thing is again, listen to your instincts. It is, it's like and it's is it every time you go out? Is you know? Is it at home? Also? Is it? Is it ubiquitous? Like? Is it something that's because for me? And it could be pat it could be a bunch of things. I don't want that in friendship and I don't want that in in love. I think it should be you know, do you always have to have sex? Do they always have to drink to have sex? Do they like where? Is it right? It's not the amount we know that that's not one of the criteria we use for a problem. And again, you don't even have to diagnose them as anything. It's more for yourself, like when I'm with this person, do I feel like I'm really with them? You know? And a lot of people drink and it's fine, you know most Gary's fine with his drinking, you know, but Gary will say things like while I was in a bad mood, so I didn't want to drink, you know, like he. To him, it's like a fun social thing. He would never like drink at home alone like he it's and I wouldn't be with someone who did. It wouldn't be for me what I'm looking for. And it's okay if it's for you, But think about it. I think we take certain things like as as is, and of course you kind of thing because everybody drinks, and we don't really think about when I've noticed when I've been out with certain friends or something, it's like they don't want to drink, like, oh, if you're not drinking, I'm not going to drink like they don't. They don't care. It doesn't again, we haven't broccoli or not like they don't. It doesn't have any heat when And I think that's the thing you have to think about. Do you notice an energy shift when you're talking about it when you don't when you do, like you know, what activities you do. I think those are the things you have to really key into. And so yeah, that for sure. Especially, I can't tell you how many people I've worked with who date alcoholics or addicts over and over, like you know, and they'll say they weren't using when I met them. They wasn't like this when I met them. And there's usually probably in your background, some drug or alcohol person in the background, because that's like a gimme whenever I have someone who has that currently, I know. It's the first thing I asked, Michael, who is alcoholic in your house? Like or you know that you knew, or in the family there's something or or a dysfunctional family dynamic. Get me mix it absolutely absolutely, It's always there every time, so you know, it's like trace it down. So this is what looks appealing. And I always say again, it's about the intimacy and trust. You know that it's always whated. So you got to have the trust and to have the intimacy. Those are the things that go together. And you can't have that if there's drinking all the time, you just you can't doesn't exist. I know some people think, oh, that's how I get intimate because I drink and then I can open up and I can It's like you need to drink to open up. That's not real intimacy. Drinking doesn't bring out some other true whatever. It's just uncovers. It's a focuser. It just uncovers something, that's all. But if you can't do it sober, then I get concerned.

Yeah, great advice. Thank you so much for joining me, Abby. It really a pleasure. Can people find you on Instagram or social media?

Yeah, they're all over. I'm sure you'll post it everywhere. But really, my website, abbymedcalf dot com and it's with a d MEDCLF, is where the easiest way to get all my socials and the podcast and all my tips. And I do have a free mindfulness starter kit if anybody wants that, that is on the website. It is really free. It's nothing weird. So if people want something like that a resource, I have a lot of free resources on the website. It's meant to be free.

And once your podcast name again.

It's relationships made easy. We were yeah, like eighty eighth last week in the United States. Yeah, we're in relationships. Yeah, we're We're going into our seventh season in August, so it's really exciting. If anyone liked me here, they'll love the podcast.

Yes, yes, absolutely awesome. Thank you so much for thanking you. Thank you so much for listening to Rachel Goes Growth follow us on Instagram and TikTok for exclusive video content at Rachel gos Rogue Podcast