It's time to talk about sex. Rachel is joined by sex therapist Nikquan Lewis for a very personal conversation about sex and intimacy.
This is Rachel gos Rogue.
Welcome back to another episode of Rachel Goes Rogue. This is your host Rachel Savannah Levis, and today we are talking about sex. I feel like sex is kind of a taboo topic, but it's something that affects us immensly and our decision making in choosing a life partner or a significant other. It's not the most comfortable conversation to have, but I feel like it's very important. And as I think back to my previous partners and my sexual experiences, each one has been very different in their own way. I wanted to ask a professional more about the specifics that go into sex and what the healthy boundaries are with sex, because as I've experienced not so healthy relationships, my goal going forward is to cultivate a healthy relationship in all different aspects, and physical intimacy is definitely one of those. Today joining on the podcast is Nikwon Lewis, who is a licensed marriage and family therapist. She is a professional counselor and a relationship and sex therapist. She provides individual therapy, couples therapy, and sex therapy. She's a featured expert in publications such as Essence cosmopolitan and glamour. Her mission extends beyond therapy as she fosters deep connections and intentional growth for singles, couples, and groups. Hi, welcome to Kwan.
Hi. How are you so good to see you?
And me too?
I'm good.
It's so good to meet you and see you too. Thank you for joining me today.
Absolutely, thank you for having me.
I'm prefacing our listeners to know that we're talking about sex today, and I feel like it's kind of one of those topics that used to make me squirm a little bit, but I think it's something that's so important. And during my time at the Meadows, I learned a lot about mixing up intensity for intimacy and misunderstanding that this powerful sexual connection is love and that's actually not the case. So I want to go into those topics and of other things too. So thank you for joining me today.
Absolutely, let's do it, okay cool?
What would you say are the most important ingredients for sex? So?
The most important ingredients for sex is starting with the healthy relationship. First of all, healthy relationship is built off of three foundational needs. Of course others, but starting with respect, compassion, and trust. Good sex. I believe good sex is a component of a healthy relationship, So it starts there. It starts with communication. Right. Good sex is co created, meaning it's between you and your partner or partners. But it's about understanding what your sexual boundaries are, what brings you pleasure. It's about creating the sex life that you desire and deserve.
And how do you communicate out with somebody because it could be an awkward conversation if you're not used to talking about what feels good and what you actually want.
Absolutely great question. As a sex therapist, I talk to the couples about this every single day because there's so much stigma and shame around sex, right, and that hinders how we talk about it, or if you talk about it at all. And so because a lot of us can grow up talking about those type of things, you just don't have the language. So the way that you talk about it is first by creating a safe space. I'm talking about in emotionally safe space. If I don't feel comfortable with you, if I feel like you're gonna judge me and I share something with you and you know, screw your face up or grab your pearls, maybe I'm not talking to you. Right, So you have to create that emotionally safe space, and then you have to give each other permission to be completely honest and transparent, no judgment, no shame. So that's what I'm talking about when I say sexual boundaries. It's setting the grounds for this intimate and sensitive conversation. And so in order for you to tell your partner what you like, you have to know yourself. Right. So I'm gonna be proponent of self pleasure because you need to know what your body craves so that you can communicate that to somebody else, right, And so it's a wee conversation. This is you know what my body enjoys, and then you can even show them that with like a hand over hand movement. But it starts with sexual boundaries, talking about what brings you pleasure, creating that safe space and that judgment free zone, and talking about what it is that you enjoy and what you think you might enjoy.
Okay, emotions are coming up for me because I feel like there's a lot of maybe shame surrounding pleasing yourself. And I have my own situation that I went through that I feel a little bit of shame surrounding it. But how would you suggest somebody gets to know their body better to know how to achieve that ultimate pleasure.
So it starts with just what you said, Rachel. It's the shame. Before you can really explore your body and enjoy it, you have to get out of your head. First of all, it's honoring that pleasure is our birthright. We all deserve pleasure, and I advocate for everyone to live a pleasure feel a life. So before you can enjoy your body, you have to honor that. So it's sexual affirmations that I have. My clients give themselves honoring their body right, connecting with that sensual side of them, and then you give yourself permission to explore every part of your body. There are several erogenous songs did you know that? On the body?
So I know an erogenous zone is your wrists and maybe behind your ear or your ear love. What are some of the other ones?
Oh, my goodness, behind your knee if you if you can believe it, behind your knee is one your scalp. So what I want people to do, and I encourage you to do this is do what's called pleasure mapping, and it's basically taking your hands and especially if you have nails and just kind of grazing them over your body very lightly, your face, your ears. When I did this the first time, I recognize for myself that that my inner ears are very sensitive. Our bodies are different, right, and so what's a rags for me may not be aroginess for you, but the zones are pretty much the same. It is just about what gives us each pleasure. The back, the lower back is a very sensitive space. Your feet, right, so there's several places. So give your self permission to enjoy pleasure and pay attention to the pressure that you use sense and things incorporate toys if you're okay with that, and if you're not, you know, explore your belief system around that. So that's what it starts with, understanding your belief system, giving your sub permission to release shan because it doesn't belong to you, and then giving your self permission to explore your body, whether it's with your hands, with toys.
Do you have advice for somebody who doesn't orgasm while having sex?
Yes, So that is that's that's a loaded question. Brand So coming to me with the I experience that a lot. So coming to me. Number one We're going to make sure that you get a doctor's appointment schedule, because you always want to start with the physical to rule out any type of physical issues. Right. Then we're going to talk about what your belief system is around sex, because if this has anything to do with performance anxiety, which just means being in your head. Right, if you're in your head and not focusing on the pleasure, it's going to be an absolute blockage that could absolutely impact your ability to experience pleasure. And so then you know, can you experience orgasms manually, like through masturbation, can you do it through partner sex? Like? There's several questions that you want to assess. Are you also advocating for yourself if you're having partner sex? Are you telling your partner what you enjoy right so that you can tell them what to do, right. So there's a lot of things that you want to consider. Have you explored your body? Have you, you know, explored or had orgasms with some partners versus others? But if you can't do it with yourself, it starts with you know, what is going on? What are you doing? Are you only trying to obtain it through penetration, which eighty percent of women don't experience orgasm through penetration, so that is not uncommon. Right, So there's several things to consider. What are you doing and what are you thinking about why you're doing it? Are you focusing on the pleasure that you're experiencing, And it's important to understand that orgasming is one way to experience pleasure. There are so many others that have nothing to do with penetration, like the erosional zones, and you know, focusing on the connection orgasm is great, but it's one way to experience pleasure.
Yeah, in my post relationships, I was experiencing sex and I wasn't experiencing orgasms. And so when I ventured into a new relationship, I started experiencing orgasms for the first time, and I noticed it would become like very it was very powerful. How do you make sure that you're not falling into a relationship for the pleasure of that relationship and your judgment gets clouded.
Yes, So that's a great question, and so I would dig a lot deeper into the belief system surrounding this relationship. So although I'm hearing that in this relationship you started having orgasms, it was you know, surprising to you. Maybe you never experienced that before and it kind of took things to another level. However, they're likely was that's a part of the story, but I would imagine that's not the entire part of the story as far as things that you were experiencing outside of the orgasm with this specific person. Also, were you loving yourself intentionally, because when we lose ourselves on relationships, oftentimes there's a disconnect with us, you know, emotionally being intentional about self love. So when I say I would you know, dig deeper, I am definitely going to assess your relationship with yourself right, your standards of relationship, your social support network, which just means like your a support system. How are you nurturing your individuality? Because the orgasm can take you over the moon, absolutely, but I'm interested also in these various areas of your life in addition to that to make sure that you're nurturing though, it's about having a healthy relationship with yourself so that you can have a healthy relationship with others. And healthy relationships with others has boundaries, right, and it has ways to ensure that if we're caring for ourselves, we don't necessarily get lost in a sauce.
Yeah, I think I definitely got lost in the sauce, and I lost my identity in a way. I was just a very lost person altogether, and I was finding solace in this person and used him almost as an escape from reality, which I think can be a very dangerous place because there's like a lot of isolation and yeah, downright escape from the reality of what was happening in our world. Maybe there was like this element of fantasy that was enmeshed with the connection that we had as well.
And want to I want you to know that you are not the only one that has experienced that. Is it healthy? No, But I mean we've a lot of us have been there, and that's why it's just so important that we again have healthy relationships with ourselves, we have healthy coping skills, because sex can absolutely be a coping skill. The issue is such as you know, other things I'm drawing as alcohol, there are consequences with it. Right now, if you using it, you know, as a stress reliever, there's nothing wrong with that. But when you mentioned before about you know, sex addiction, it's actually called out of control sexual behavior, right, that's the technical term because sex addiction is not diagnosable out of control sexual behavior. And so when we engage in that and we lose ourselves, we forfeit you know, our friends, and you know our responsibilities in our life. Now we're talking about, you know, having maybe an unhealthy relationship with it, and so again as a therapist, I'm looking at the full picture. What areas? What are these key areas? Social support, individuality, family work, all these things? How are these things operating? What do you what's your motivation for this relationship? What are you getting from it? Because even though you may have lost yourself, you're getting something out of it for sure.
Yeah. And as you're talking about drugs and alcohol and how that plays into you know, our relationships, can you speak more about rituals.
When you say rituals, do you mean like healthy rituals? What kind of ritual do you mean?
Well, the relationship that I was in was not a healthy relationship. And I noticed that there were rituals taking place before we would even engage in having a sexual connection, which included like three shots of whiskey and a beer, and you know, like talking about a specific topic before even engaging in something like that. And I think maybe that not to blame it on the alcohol per se, but I think that that definitely helped to lower the inhibitions and created more of an ease and a relaxed nature, Whereas if we didn't engage in those rituals, it wouldn't feel as natural.
Absolutely, okay, So what happens is, again, when there's an unhealthy dynamic, you feel the need to do something to take the edge off. So those are actually red flags that you can look for. Do you require drugs, alcohol being talked into before you engage, or do you require something in order to simply relax and you know, be intimate with this person. So those are the things that I would call more so red flags to say, Okay, why do I need this in order to do this?
Right?
Again, what's my belief system surrounding this relationship? Is there any shame that I am working through? Is it guilt that I'm working through? Blame? Right, there are three emotions that we experience, shame, guilt, and blame their feelings like anything else. However, when we sit in them, it brings us down. And if we're talking about rituals, we may engage in certain things drugs, alcohol to work through them so that we can then engage sexually. But that is a find. If I have to do this in order to engage sexually, yeah, I need to probably rethink what I'm doing.
Definitely. I can see how that's a red flag now looking back, for sure. And it's part of the reason too that as I'm getting back into the dating world and experiencing that again, I'm choosing to It's a thing called sober dating, So I'm choosing not to drink alcohol and definitely not doing drugs on dates so I can really get to know the person and get to know how I feel in my own body without the influence of something else.
I'm a huge advocate for that as well as Richard. Do you know your standards of relationship the things that you are looking for in a healthy relationship.
I believe I do. I'm looking for healthy communication where you know, we're not conflict avoidant, We're able to talk about things and bring things to the surface so we can foster more true intimacy. I'm looking for similar values honesty, integrity, respect, kindness, you know, hard working and family. I'm looking for someone that takes care of their body, that views their body as a temple. They also think that someone who is emotionally intelligent, who's able to talk about their emotions, and not only that, but like emotionally regulated, so you know, fights aren't explosive. You know, we're able to have a stable conversation and really express our feelings in a way that isn't volatile.
Yes, look at you, check you out. Yes, ma'am. Those are fabulous standards of relationship. Very very I mean, I know we just met, but I'm very proud of you for knowing this. I speak to women, you know, a lot older, and they just haven't done the work yet, so they may not know. But if you lead with these standards of relationship while you're getting back into the dating world, you will find that it's a lot more challenging to get into something that is completely unhealthy because you're asking these questions, also considering what makes you feel safe, because those are likely a part of your key values. But we sometimes don't connect right, So I know, for me, protection as far as like feeling protected, follow through feeling secure, like those things are like make me feel safe, and those are part of my key values as well.
So yes, and I listen to just a podcast snippet of a therapist saying that there have been studies by women who have described the feeling of safety and being safe sparks the motions of being attracted to somebody.
Yeah. Absolutely, because intimacy requires vulnerability, right, And if I don't feel safe with you, wall is coming up, right, And so that absolutely impacts intimacy. And when I'm talking about intimacy, I'm talking about the various types of intimacy, including sexual intimacy. But absolutely safety is a key component for healthy intimacy.
I should say, can you talk about, like what happens to the chemistry and the brain specifically for women who have sex with somebody, Like does it change something in your brain that like makes it harder to discern if this is a good life partner or not.
So here's the thing. One, when we have sex and we have we experience pleasure. Dopamine is released in the brain.
Right.
There's so many This is also a layered question. You have people that can have sex with people and there's no connection and they're simply seeking pleasure, and that's just what it is. You have others that require that emotional connection, and you also have furthermore, others who sex and emotions are absolutely tied into, and then those people get lost in the sauce. Right, So it's the first knowing what is your relationship? That's said, what happens when you experience pleasure? You know, do you automatically get connected to this person or can you just hit it and quit it type of thing? You have to know that about yourself and be honest with yourself. So dopamine is being released, but it really does depend on your personal experience with sex. What happens in your body when you experience it, the mind and body connection, what happens with both. Everyone is different in that sense, So you have people that don't. It doesn't get confusing, but there's a lot of us women that do connect the two. And if we don't have that healthy foundation rooted in myself right again, self love, all the things, then I can absolutely get kind of drugged off of the dopamine and now I am not making rational decisions. I'm more so living in maybe even dating, like the possibilities versus looking at the reality type of thing. All those things can happen when you are more of an emotional person that gets lost in that and not necessarily rooted as an individual.
On the flip side of that, is love enough? What happens if you're emotionally connected to partner but sexually it just isn't there and is there a way to fix that?
So love is not enough for a lot of things. Love is important. So if we're talking about a healthy relationship, is love enough? No, you have to be in alignment. If you're not in alignment, when you meet someone, we have to have a conversation of can we is there something that we can do? Can we compromise?
Right?
Can love be enough? When you have for sex or trash sex? We'll just say it's a been because you have couples that you know are absolutely in love and they don't have sex for a number of reasons, whether it's you know, medical, not interested. It depends on how high a priority sex is in your relationship. Sex is an important part of a healthy relationship, but it varies though, because it depends on the couple. I work with couples who you know may not have it for whatever reason, but they absolutely can have a very pleasure fieled life because it may not be a priority or maybe it's off the table for another reason. One reason or another. If it is high on a priority list and it's trash, yes, you come to a sex therapist. We talk about how to excite and explore and expand your sex life. There's so many different things that couples can do to expand, but you have to be willing and you have to be okay with talking about it. So can it change, Yes, but it's love enough. Sexually, it depends. It depends on your relationship with sex and what you want, what your priorities are in your relationship.
Does this change as you age? Or for instance, if you're in a relationship for a very long time and those honeymoon feelings seem to have subsided, does that change as you age?
Absolutely, it absolutely changes because what happens is, for a lot of people, our libidos change. I'm talking about our sex drives, right, So when I work with couples, let's say I work with couples that are in their thirties or so, I advocate for them to talk about the issues now, because as long as we age and as long as we stay alive, our sexual health is going to change. It's going to happen. So let's talk about it when it's not a problem when the penis is not working. What are we going to do when you know women are hormones are fluctuating, what are we going to do? Right, Let's talk about how to maintain sexual health, how to have those challenging questions. Now, we can be preventative and not reparitive. Because I work with a lot of older couples. They they don't have any protocols in place, and they're experiencing these things for the first time, and there's a lot of again shame around them. But if you've been preventative years before, now we have a plan. So if you do come to me and they're shame, we're going to work through those things. We're going to talk about how libidos change, how sex drives change. Sometimes we are spontaneous, which so when I say spontaneous desire, I'm talking about the desire that a lot of us experience in our twenties. The wind could blow and you'd feel a little frisky. Right, You don't don't need much. Then you have responsive desire, and this just means that you need a stimulus of some kind. Maybe you need you see something on TV and now you get a little frisky, or you get a physical touch, or your love language is spoken and you get frisky. The way that you get turned on can change with age, but younger people can experience those different types of desire as well. It's having the language to communicate to your partner how you get turned on, whether you are young or older. But those things absolutely will shift when you get older. You communicate, though, that's where it starts to end, communicating what you're experiencing, how your pleasure and your relationship with pleasure is changing. The things that you used to give you pleasure. You know when you were younger very well, may not work when you're older. Right, So let's talk about what that looks like at every stage of life.
What do you do if you are and love but your sexual priorities vary between partners? Do you repair that or do you break up? Or where do you go from there?
So if you are in love and you want to stay in the relationship, then you again can come to a sex therapist and we can talk about what a bridge looks like. We can talk about again how to talk about what you desire. Oftentimes people just don't have the language, they don't understand sexual boundaries, and they don't see a way out of this box that they have found themselves in. We talk about how to expand there's a form that I have my couple spell out. It's called the yes nor maybe form that has a variety of things that you can experience sexually. However, if it's a yes, check it off. If it's a no, check it off, if it's a maybe, check it off. But discuss everything, because you may not want something in this way, but maybe you would be open to a variation when what you just described comes with a lack of communication and more rigid boundaries. I'm not ever suggesting that anyone go outside of their boundaries, but let's discuss it. So do you just break up? Not if you want the relationship. If the relationship is rooted in those key things love, trust, compassion, respect, and you want to work on the relationship with assistance, you can improve your sex life. But if people are not willing and sex is high on the priority, then you know you may have to You can discuss what are some compromises. If no one is willing to compromise, and you may end the relationship. But if you want the relationship through or things that you can do for sure.
One of the things that I'm taking more seriously is my sexual health and like getting an STD test and asking my partner to get an STD test before there's intimacy in the bedroom. So how do you bring up a conversation like that if it feels a little bit uncomfortable.
There are so many people in your age ranch that are entering the dating pool. Sexual health is at the forefront of social media and society right now, right so there are a lot of people that are not playing anymore and they are advocating for their mental, relational, and sexual wellness. And so if you feel uncomfortable, that's okay, That is okay. You do it afraid. You do it afraid. You're setting the stage for a healthy relationship. It is completely natural for you to feel uncomfortable if you're not used to having these conversations. So you take a few deep breaths, you give yourself permission to do it afraid, and you have these conversations. I absolutely encourage everyone when you start dating to if you're thinking about being intimate with someone, not just penetration, but just intimate in general, to have these conversations. And if you're nervous about it or shamed. It's okay. Give yourself permission to feel the feeling, identify the feeling, and allow it to pass. And it passes when you do it in spite of it. Yes, keep doing that, man, Yes, that's that's awesome. Very proud of you for doing that.
Can you talk about the differences between emotional attraction, physical attraction, and sexual attraction.
So here's okay. So physical attraction is, you know, pretty cut and dry. You are physically attracted to someone's presence. You are physically attracted to how they present.
Right.
Emotional attraction you're attracted to how they make you feel. You're attracted to the conversation, the communication, You're just attracted to the feelings of it. Sexual attraction is more it's very similar to physical attraction. However, you may very well, you know your vagina get to it, you have a sexual response when you engage with this person. Physical and sexual definitely can oftentimes do cross over. They can all of course overlap, but those are the differences.
Can we get addicted to the excitement of sex and mistake it for true intimacy, So that.
Goes back to your relationship with sex as a person. If you're getting addicted to it. So again we're talking about out of control sexual behavior. Can you be addicted? Not, according to what we call the DSM, there is no sex addiction. But can you engage in out of control sexual behavior? Absolutely? And can you mistake that virtue intimacy? Absolutely? But again it goes back to you know, what is your relationship like with yourself? You know, how healthy is that? What kind of well rounded person are you to be able to have not barriers, but protective factors to prevent those things from happening.
Going back to our orgasm conversation, and I know that this is like a typical thing because probably women don't experience orgasms as often as men do. But why do we as women feel compelled to fake orgasms when it's just like not happening for us. Are we faking it for the sake of our partners feelings? What is that?
There's a number of reasons, and so first, ladies, let's not do that anymore. But as women, we have been programmed to prioritize the pleasure of others, and so that includes expressing that you've had an orgasm. To your pardon, maybe you really haven't, because again you're prioritizing their pleasure. It's the expectation because oftentimes your part will ask, you know, well did you have orgasm? Did you have orgasms? Did you have orgasm? Because a lot of sex is performance oriented instead of pleasure focused. There's a difference. You're focusing on only having the orgasm then, and that's the goal, that's what you're seeking. And so as women, again, because we've been programmed to prioritize pleasure of others, we want to I think a lot of times you want to be we want to highlight their pleasure. We want to feel that expectation and that is the priority and not so much as our pleasure. So we should not be faking sex. And also when you don't have the language, and then there's some shame and fear to say, you know, no, I didn't have an orgasm, or you know this isn't this doesn't make me feel good? Do this? You don't have the language, And so oftentimes too it's about conflict avoidance. Right, I'm going to go ahead and say I did it because I don't want to deal with the possible backlash. I don't want to deal with your attitude, or I don't want to deal with the awkwardness of that conversation. So women will oftentimes say we I did, but they didn't.
Where does the attraction to people we know are bad for us come from?
Okay, So that it can be a number of things that can be a trauma bonding situation. So, for all intense purposes, trauma bonding happens when we're a children, and it occurs in a person. It happens when three things are true. A child experiences love, rejection, and neglect of some form. And so oftentimes we learn that love is difficult growing up, right, And if you've learned that in some form of fashion, then when someone comes with red flag after red flag after red flag, you don't necessarily notice it. It's not you don't see the red flag because it feels familiar, right. And so when we're in unhealthy relationships, oftentimes or not seeing those red flags because again they feel familiar. And so you have that honeymoon phase when your partner treats you like a queen, right, But oftentimes the majority of the relationship they treat you like you know what. Right. But we are always holding onto that false sense of hope that it was once good. It can be that again when they're really it, oftentimes is no evidence that that is going to happen. So when we are in that unhealthy relationship and we know, you know, maybe you're hearing from others that this is not a good relationship for you, and maybe you know, it goes back to that trauma bonding situation where I'm always holding on to well, it can be that good, and it's the negative thoughts and dialogue that we have with ourselves that keeps us there.
Okay, so wrong person, great sex. How do you move on from them?
It's not easy, but it's possible. It is absolutely possible. So wrong person, great sex. I would absolutely start with that individual love because it's hard to prioritize something where there's harm involved. Yes, the sex is great, but if there's harm involved in a relationship or just you know that you and that person are not in alignment when your value, when you are walking in your values, principles and morals, it's challenging to stay in that unhealthy you know, relationship, and so also prioritizing your pleasure. If you're prioritizing your pleasure, yes you're having great sex over here, but if you also know what your body craves and you can give that to yourself and you're loving yourself intentionally vs. Principles and morals. It's it's easier to walk away. It's when we need that external validation and that's all we're giving because we're not pouring into ourselves that I'm attached to this because this person is meeting, you know, some part of my needs and I'm not necessarily meeting my own.
Ah. Such a good answer. Yes, I think that's like one of the biggest lessons that we have to learn maybe or maybe just speaking from my experience through trial and error, just like really prioritizing your morals and your values and being principled enough to fill your own cup and know that if this person isn't in alignment with you, there's no way it's going to work out. It's not a healthy relationship, and you're just gonna have to like cut off ties and start filling your own cup and validating yourself from within, and you know, using tools like toys to pleasure yourself and make sure that you you know, you can take care of yourself and this person who you're choosing to add into your life should be just like the icing on the cake of it all.
Yes, ma'am. Absolutely, And it's when we don't have that that we're not rooted and grounded in ourselves. We are absolutely at risk for doing things out of desperation, and that's what that is, and so it it's dangerous, honestly, but again, a lot of us have experienced it.
It's an important for people to try multiple partners to know the difference between good and bad sex.
Nope, it's not. You can explore as much as you want to with one partner. You have the right, of course, being you know, being mindful of sexual health and having safer sex, you have the right to you know, engage how you please. But it is not required that you have multiple partners to explore sexually. That's that's absolutely a myth because you have a lot of people that have absolutely had tons of partners and their sex is trash because they're doing the same things over and over. Right, just because you have more partners does not mean that you are more experienced.
I was attracted to this other person who was on the same reality TV show that I was on. Was I more attracted to him because I perceived him to have more power or to have more influence or or put him on a pedestal in some sort of way.
That absolutely could have been a part of it. And then again it goes back to the to the forms of attraction you mentioned sexual, emotional, physical, You know, what was your why have you been able to you know, really identify that for yourself.
The why and the physical attraction.
The why and all of the attraction, Like what was your motivation? What connected you? What attracted you to this person? Because it could have been the power, the image, it could have been all those things that could have does mean one of the other.
It was okay. So it was emotional attraction because I enjoyed the feeling that I got being around him, because I felt valued and adored and like really appreciated, just like being present in the same room as him. And then also just a contrast between my last relationship that was very volatile and unhealthy and I was going through some sort of heartbreak with that and just feeling like heartbroken basically, and just the environment that I was in, I was kind of torturing myself in a way. When I was around him, I felt this sense of relief and this sense of security and safety and acceptance, and I think both of those things plus like I like the way he looked, and I liked the way he dressed, in the way that he's spoken, he was very charismatic, and so I think all of those factors played into that chemistry absolutely.
So it also sounds like, and you know, definitely correct me if I'm wrong, but what I hear also is that you were grieving the past relationship and there was a lot of heartbreaking things. So somebody coming along and speaking to those hurt parts of you, it's easier to attach. And so we're talking about like attachment theory, and you were, you know, in this hurt place, this wounded, somewhat placed, and then here comes this person almost helping you to heal. Because as human beings, we thrive in community. So although it was an unhealthy relationship, you were getting something out of it, and you were also weren't there were things that were not resolved for you. And so if there were open wounds and here's this person you're feeling heard and seeing and things like that, I can absolutely see how an unhealthy connection thenforms because he's pouring into your cup and it sounds like your cup may have been a little empty.
Yeah. Absolutely. I was in a five year relationship and I broke off this engagement and my ex found a new partner, you know, in a short amount of time, maybe like two months if that, after I gave him back the ring, and so I just felt like I was replaced, and I felt like our connection wasn't really like what I thought it was. Even though I was the one that broke up with him, I still felt like I loved him and I saw a future with him, and it was it was a hard decision to because I knew that he wasn't healthy for me, but I still loved him, and I just couldn't comprehend how he could fall in love with somebody else so quickly, and so it just made me feel like that whole relationship was a farce. I was in an environment where I was working filming with my ex and his new girlfriend, and he was telling me that she's the love of his life, and you know, all of these things that he used to tell me, and it just made me spiral into a dark place. And I was drinking a lot of alcohol to cope with that pain and just not in a good stable place. Trying to get back into a dating scene, but like feeling lost and my identity was shattered for multiple reasons, you know, And then here comes along this other person that really made me feel seen and like valued and loved and cared for and accepted and wanted to hear my story and showed me this like undivided interest. Yeah, I think I was grieving.
Yeah, and being in that dark place can can and it's it's not about irrational. It's not about making it right or wrong. It is the reality that when you are in a dark place and you are getting into another relationship or situation, you are at a higher risk of making irrational decisions on ones that may not be it may not be the best, but again, they're serving a purpose and so a lot of us have done that. This is not about right, wrong, or and different. This is just what it is. When you are in a place of desperation and hurt, you make decisions from that place. So I can I can understand that I'm.
In a much better place now. I feel like sometimes we look at celebrities like they're on a different level, and maybe there's more of an emotional connection to celebrity because it's how they make you feel about yourself and then probably this fantasy case where you believe that you know this person even though what you see isn't in totality who they are, like, you're not actually getting to know them on a personal level.
So when there's you know, someone has celebrity and it's like, well they're picking me, you know, it's a confidence boost. It's also stroking your ego, an ego you know, when you're making decisions from that place, you can kind of get yourself into trouble.
Right.
So of course if this person is a celebrity and you know they want to engage with you and spend time with you, that also is like a dopamine brush. And so now I'm making more decisions from an emotional place and not necessary the logical place of my brain. And so we end up, you know, focusing on the potential of what we experience, what we believe, versus what we experience. Does that make sense? So when we date potential, it's the narratives that we're focusing on. It's it's the dopamine rush. It's the possibility of being with somebody who we see on a different caliber, and it just it puts us in a position to also actually be hurt because again potential versus reality.
This sounds really weird, but I'm more asking on a personal level because this is a apparently I'm a notable person and you know you are infamous for the situation. And now that I'm dating again, it's like, Okay, now I have to be aware that other people may you know, this concept of me giving them attention may feed into their own ego. It's realizing now that you know, there's this extra factor that I need to take into consideration when dating and to be aware of that. And so, how can you discern whether or not you're feeding somebody's ego or if it's like a true connection. Is there a way to determine that?
Well, it doesn't have to be either or right, because you can absolutely celebrity or not feed someone's ego and still determine that. Okay, I'm leading with my standards of relationship. I'm being transparent about you know, where I am, what you may encounter, you know, by being with me and wanting to know your standards of relationship, What is your why you know? What are your values, principles and morals? I'll always go back to that those should be our guiding principles and so with that combined with a transparent communication, that's kind of how you discern about the alignment piece. It doesn't have to be you know either or that's more black and white thinking that we kind of engage in. But you know, both things can be true because you are a notable person and you're a beautiful person. So just you being you know, beautiful outside of the celebrity can feed someone's ego, and so it doesn't have to mean a necessarily bad thing. Now if it's all about that and not, you know, I'm wanting to connect with you on a genuine level. I'm wanting to get to know you. Then you know, red flag absolutely, but one doesn't have to the ego only doesn't have to negate that I'm coming to you as a genuine person wanting to get to know you.
Good advice and a good perspective to look at the dating situation. Okay, well, thank you so much, Nikwan. I really enjoyed this conversation with you, and I am still processing through my own shame that I feel with sexuality and just like talking about it and open forum. So I thank you for holding space for me to like, go through my emotions and get my words out and have this conversation.
So thank you, thank you so much for having me and I command you because we cannot hear what we will not speak, So just by you speaking this shame is helping you to release it and also helping a lot of others because it's something that a lot of us hold and again you're not alone. So thank you for being a partner in this journey to sexual oness.
Thank you so much for listening to Rachel gos Grogue. Follow us on Instagram and TikTok for exclusive video content at Rachel gos Rogue Podcast