Tiffany Red

Published May 24, 2023, 10:00 AM

On this week's episode of the R&B Money Podcast, Tank and J Valentine welcome a true musical powerhouse, Tiffany Red. This Grammy award-winning writer takes us on a captivating journey as she unveils the remarkable transformation of her heartfelt poems into soulful melodies.

With an unwavering passion for Omarion's music, Tiffany dove deep into the album credits and discovered that her favorite record was produced by none other than the talented Underdogs. Fueled by determination, she embarked on an emailing spree until she secured a coveted spot as a writer under their umbrella.

But Tiffany's story doesn't end there. She has emerged as a prominent figure on the forefront of the music industry, tirelessly advocating for fair compensation for all session writers. Partnering with influential figures like Big Jon Platt and Sony, Tiffany and her group, the 100 Percenters, are revolutionizing the game.

Prepare to be inspired as you tune in to the R&B Money Podcast and join us in experiencing the remarkable journey of Tiffany Red. 

 

Extended Episodes on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/RnBMoneyPodcast

Follow The Podcast:

Tank: @therealtank  

J Valentine: @JValentine

Podcast: @RnbMoneyPodcast 

R and B Money. We are thanks take Valanti. We are the authority on all things R and B. Ladies and gentlemen, what's going on? I am tanked Valentine, And this is the R and B Money Podcast, the authority on all things R and B, all things, all things. You heard them not playing whatever They encompassed a big word again, Say it again, people, income encompass. You know what the is going on? And today on the R and B Money Podcast, we have singer singer songwriter grab me award winning song list. Can we say that? Is it? Okay? We say that? Okay? And and I'm not going to say more importantly, but I want to say just as important I would.

Say, I would say the line advocate activists, activists, Yeah, for us period.

Tiffany Fred, come on in the building, Come on, come on, welcome, welcome. You are in it.

Yeah I am.

You are not playing any games.

No, I'm not letting up.

And we're gonna have to figure out how to stand beside you on a bunch of this because it's needed. Right. So before we get to that, we like to start.

At the beginning and how you get into this thing?

How did you Tiffany Fred, when did somebody say to you? When did you say to yourself? Nice? Oh? I got it?

So I started writing. I wrote my first song in college. I was nineteen. I was randomly surrounded by a whole bunch of people at this community college in Jersey that were musicians. I had a friend named Blair and he was just like, have you ever thought of turning your poems into songs? And I was like no. We went to the auditorium. He plays piano, and he just like challenged me to write a song with him. Did you guys write on the the you wrote?

Oh? We wrote okay?

So y'all wrote? Oh? So there was a song on that project called Midnight? Did y'all write Midnight? Was that Underdogs that album specifically, and Midnight's that song specifically? I was like, damn, I fucking love this record, Like who did this song? Like I want to work with them? Like who did this? And so I looked in the credits and it was Harvey and Damon and you know whoever else? I think maybe Steve wrote on that song. Google the Underdogs and I found their website and there was like full CSI Oh, yeah, really good. I could an't what I learned. I didn't realize then, but I'm really good at connecting the dots and being like, I'm really persistent, So like you could tell me no, but that don't mean I'm not gonna ask you again. I'm gonna just ask you another time. So I hit the contact page and everybody's face popped up. I don't know who any these people are, so I just clicked a couple of them and I sent them my little demos that I was recording in Brooklyn, and he hit me back and he was just like, Yo, if you ever in La, come fuck with us.

And I was like, all right, that was your invitation.

What I was like, look, these are the people who write so cause then it was like once I figured out that they did Midnight, then I just went on a whole went down a rabbit hole, and it turned out they did all these songs that I loved.

And so I was like, damn, I want to work with them, like you know, And so I just shot my shot and cold emailed and touch hit me back. And so I like begged my parents to come to La. They're like, all right, you know, whatever, help me out. I come out here. And my grandmom was like, you know, you know, you got some cousins in LA. I got some cousins out there. So she set me up with my cousins, and I didn't know shit. I met my cousins more people to watch over me. My cousins was my mom's age, so it was like, oh, yeah, you know what I'm saying. I was like, yeah, like I don't you.

Come in here.

You don't pay no bills, you don't have no money. She was right, I didn't. I will never forget that. Like I first time I went to the studio, and that was like the first studio that I had ever been in that was like a for real studio that wasn't like in somebody's closet, you know what I'm saying. And I just I'm like, wow, these are all the plaques at all the songs that I fucking love. This is fucking crazy. And I mean, I froze. I didn't write shit. I was so scared. I was like, I mean, they were like, get this girl out of here with the fuck is.

She could with anything.

I was pet because I didn't really I mean, I was a green songwriter. I wasn't around anybody yet, so this was like James and Rob Knox and like whatever. And so I remember like going like seeing James like freestyle in the booth for the first time and being.

Lark Oh yeah, yeah, nigga, I.

Can't do that.

I got a different type of like.

I can't do well. And but everybody was doing that, him, Steve Luke, like everybody was like all right to going on to my and I was just just like, first of all, I don't know how to sing for real, Like I'm not confident in my voice, like I just got.

These are all the things that are going through your mind as a young writer, yeah, in this industry, because that I would love for you to expound. I mean, you're actually already talking about it. But this is this is something that's very important because when I first came to LA, I went to a studio. I didn't freeze because I didn't I did end up doing no writing with him, but it made me throw away my songs mmmm, because it was the first time I had walked into a room and I felt like my music wasn't good enough.

Yeah, Like you was in a I was in a room with profession.

I was in the big league.

Yeah, and you were like I'm a rookie, and then you realized you.

Was a rookie, and I completely understand that. I was like, oh ship, and your situation obviously was different because you were there for that.

Yeah.

I was really kind of a fly on the wall guy when I first, you know, my first trip to l A as a as an adult, and I'm just listening to all these songs that these guys are playing.

And I'm like, damn, you like my shit. Don't sound like that, don't That's how I felt too.

It's not that.

People like people's backgrounds. People's like sad.

Yes, sonics sh just was cleaning, and that's something that the underdog we were known for. Yeah, I was sonically it's crazy we top two, maybe not too sonically sonically conically right, there were people with great records, but sonically it was different. It was just different. Even even something like that worth that good sounded great. Yes, yes, you've hit on the fact that I wouldn't ever your ass can sing now.

I couldn't sing then, like I and to be unest well, yeah, and to be it was confidence, but also like I think there's a really big difference between studio singers and live singers. So I didn't come up singing right. So and I learned how to sing in the studio. I learned how to sing through auto tune and reverb and all these things. It's like singing with makeup on. You know what I'm saying, Like, it's not you're you know what I mean? Like it's and I feel like it's like.

So should I start telling niggas they got too much makeup on?

For real?

Yes?

Like makeup. It's like, man, you're it's covering up. It's covering up. Like I feel like like AutoTunes specifically, right, I feel like can really cover up the character in somebody's voice, Like you can really miss, like you know, trying to be perfect, you can really miss. It took me a long time, on top of the fact that I used to have people tell me I couldn't sing right, so like why are you singing this demo? Like what are you doing? Yeah, it was it was rough in the beginning. Like I definitely had like people discourage me about singing, and so I was never like no, like I didn't And you know what, I remember this one time. I don't even know if she ever remember this, but I remember I saw a Brandy at her at the Underdogs. I ran into her in the kitchen and she was like do you sing?

You know?

How were you? Like, I'm like do I? And also I just didn't believe in myself. If she asked me that today, I'll be like, yeah, but like, you know, do you sing? And I was just like, well, you know, I've given her all my disclaimers and ship. And then she just told me about like not being confident in her voice like you know when she was younger, or like just giving me like I felt I felt that same way too, And I was like what, like you're Brandy, Like how could you feel like that your fucking voice is perfection? What do you mean? And so I feel like that was something that really stuck with me. Like I just was like, you know, any time that I wasn't feeling confident, like, I will always remind myself like the people who are the greatest singers of all time feel the same nerves that I feel doing this, you know, because singing it's vulnerable, it's so vulnerable, and so yeah, like it took me a long time to build up to I have a voice, you know what I mean, like to be confident enough to be like I'm going to I'm going to sing the songs, or I want to be an artist, or i want to you know, yeah, and.

Get your projects going.

Yeah, you come here, you work with the underdogs strictly a songwriters. Are you in your mind You're like, I'm going to be a songwriter. Yes, So next step is publishing, Yes, because that's what kicks in for songwriters. Yeah, that is that is our record deal. Yep, that's a certain type of record deal.

Yeah, because most.

People just look at it like, oh, you know in the music visits, did you get a record deal? Right, Well, if your song writer don't get a record.

You get a publishing, you get a published especially.

Then yeah, which is equivalent to having a record deal, because these the publishers help shop your songs are supposed to you need to be bullshiting it look.

Like it's like a stamp of approval, Okay, like the valid dates your talent.

Yeah.

Yeah, and not all not all of these bullshiting, but some just the same thing as when the artists gets signed and it's the ant art is good, same type of thing or whatever. So you have that within the industry all together. But those are the that's that is the I'm a professional, yeah, for a songwriter. So how long does it take you to get a deal to where you're now? You're being paid be a songwriter?

So I got a deal, So I moved to LA when I was twenty. I did my deal when I was twenty one. Okay, so the year Yeah, it was fast.

Yeah, that's quick.

Yeah it was fast. It was like I came to LA and me and Stephen Russell did the song for Jenniferson's Invisible and it got placed rather quickly, and so it was just kind of like fast and I full transparency. So okay. My experience with the Underdogs was also different because I was the only female songwriter up there, so I was like surrounded by men constantly. Right, So, like, I feel like to your point about what you said earlier before we started filming, when you were like, you know, just talking about the differences as far as like how women and men respond and stuff, right, Like I think I was a young girl trying to navigate in a completely male world, and so you know, and I also obviously am outspoken, right, So I always was outspoken, So you know, things weren't agreeable rather quickly on top of the fact that I wasn't writing like that, so I got thrown out the studio people get got kicked me out all kind of shit, right, so I started.

To So you didn't have any studio etiquette in the beginning.

No, I didn't know. I didn't know what I was doing.

What were you doing to get kicked out the students? And so that people that are watching.

They still the whole meeting about kicking me out, like don't if you see Tivany, don't let her shout out to Stephen Russell because he let me up. He was like He's like, come on if like I got you. And then me and him wrote that record and then I was allowed on the third floor. I wasn't I wasn't writing. I was just like I was just there. I was there, freking weird, like what is she doing? And I didn't know, just like.

You gotta at least be bringing like fresh, what are you doing some more?

Just like right, yeah, like I just was frozen. I was just stuck like and then also, like I said, I was the only girl, So me being frozen and stuck like Russ, I've grown. It was like look at that and see like there was no one around me that I could be like girl like, so I couldn't do that, like you know, and so I just was kind of like and they were like, I mean, I guess they had had the meetings because I get her the fuck out of here, and so I would do y'all remember the security guard, Mike. Yeah, Mike was was like he wouldn't let nobody upstairs, didn't matter how famous you were. He was like, sorry, you're not.

Because of some other I mean, because people waiting to park A lot of people.

I watched him deny some big ass artists, Like damn, you're not gonna let him up. He's like, sorry, you're not on a list. So of course I wasn't on the list. So I come to the studio. They're like, you know, unfortunately timany candairs, and I'm.

Like, damn, you know.

You know.

It's an interesting part of that too, though. Tank and I were also buffers for artists.

So y'all were like, my Steve, same thing, like not even not.

Even just that. Yeah, because in the earlier days, the studios were getting overbooked, so they would be artists just sitting literally sitting in the lobby literally sitting, but worse might be in there waiting to get you, waiting to get us, waiting to even get in concert with some.

Disc That's what we need that back. I like that.

I mean, okay for me, I you know, I'm a person that values time.

Okay, I'm just saying that the level.

Of like for sure.

But like I said, I value time like I like people to be on time. I like to be on time, So I don't like to have somebody waiting. So Tank and I we would literally go entertain our peers, like, okay, I would go in there and make nigga shoot dice and I'll be there gambling. I had the ship lit on the full tables, don't don't, okay, like fully gambling, I didn't. Yeah, I turn gamble and I think obviously by the time you got there, yeah, TVs lined my god playing Halo. But we were entertaining things and it was, you know, it was just kind of done a little different. So I understand that too. Where it was like you might have saw artists because they didn't have the space and time. Oh yeah, it was just it was everybody. Mama was trying to get a under It was a factory. They were trying to get an underdog record. It was a very hot commodity. So I understand it. But you being put on the don't because you had to take an elevator if you can't get on it.

You got that five yeah, yeah, So Steve Russell.

For sneaking you back, you know, on the third floor, give and getting you.

And get me a Grammy. And my dad loved my dad loved Troops. It was I was like, Dad, I'm working with Stephen Russell.

He's like, what, yeah, this is this is but this is how the music business works. It's all about seizing the opportunity and about the pull up and everybody's not. Persistence sometimes goes against you. Sistence can make a nigga be like yo, dog, like I'm die. But the pull up is very important, meaning when someone grabs back. Because Steve did not have.

To do it, did that.

He could have wrote that record by himself or with another writer that was there. Maybe it's not the same song.

But.

He didn't have to do that.

He did not have to do that, and that is something to me that is very important and that I pray and hope that more of us do. It's important when we identify talent, because you can't do it for everybody. Every m talking about I got to hit for you. That's different.

I think he saw that that I just kept showing up like he was just like, clearly something is going on.

You know what I mean, write.

Well because I was scared. You know what I think it was to I was scared to sing. I was scared to sing because I just had people telling me I couldn't sing. So that it was like, and I'm around all these amazing Luke.

And everybody in there.

Could you would just be walking through the halls just fucking doing all these runs.

Should would be like Fount LaRoy, Luke, Eric Dawkins.

I was like, I didn't do that. Like I was just like, I can't do that, so I'm not gonna do nothing.

I got all these lyrics and melody.

I had the whole song in.

My head, but I was poetry wasn't nothing there. It wasn't she was coming there on some death comedy.

No, They was like jumping the booth. That's why I was.

Just like these melodies, those lyrics sound yeah yeah, and I was not how do they read?

Yeah?

Yeah?

It was it was rough the begin but I mean I figured it. I figured it out quick because I wanted to do it though, so I was just like, fuck it, I'm gonna just figure out how.

So once you got that record, you want a row.

So I got that record, and then like I started bumping heads with with with some folks up there, and so I just started to do my own thing.

I had you came back and bumped heads.

No, I mean I just feel like it was no after I got kicked out, I did the record, and then I signed to them, okay, and then we started bumping heads when we started doing business and so or no way, hold on, let me backtrack. So before I signed to them, I when I was up there, people like Brian Kennedy were there and like who else was there? T Wiz was there. Yeah, and so like that was where I like met some of my first like friends in music. And so once I started making friends in music, I just started working. Like I had worked with.

Different studios.

Yeah, I was going to different studios. Then I started going to Atlanta. Polo hit me on my space like yo, you want to work.

I was like.

Yeah yeah yeah, So He's like, yo, you want and so I was like, yes, what two thousand and seven Polo hit you what? Yes, I'm trying to get a records Are you crazy? So yeah, then I went out there and that was the first time I worked with hip Boy and Chase, you know. So I like by the time I did my deal, I was like all over the place just doing a whole bunch of stuff because I mean, full transparency, I knew they didn't fuck with me, like you know what I mean. I knew they didn't fuck with me, and so it was like I didn't want to be somewhere where they didn't want to fuck with me, you know what I mean. And so I mean it kicked me out of the studio. So I was just like, all right, well I'm gonna go. I'm gonna keep doing this. This was an incredible opportunity. I learned a whole bunch of shit and I just started working. But when I was in Atlanta working, Touch called me and was like, yo, they want to sign you. And I was on my life, No, now they want to fuck with me. And I was on my life, No, now they want to fuck with me? You know, like an emotional No, I want to be an emotional I meant that as your friend.

I'm telling you this because in this business sometimes we move with our emotions instead of our business mind, right, we do. This is a This is a very real thing because when you because I'm assessing it, because I never knew what your situation was, but I'm assessing it from the outside.

I got to give you the rest of the tea before you assessed.

No, no, no, no, it's quick.

It's quick because I want this to be something that younger generations of writers of artists, they just they understand what they're what's going on in your position At that time, you didn't fully know what was going on. You couldn't fully look at it through a glass lens and say, oh, okay, now I showed my worth.

Well, but so here's the other thing. I have other deals on the table that were better.

Of course you did. And so it came from.

I know well, and so I was in that position and it was like that was the tone. Yeah, And so I was like, oh my god, I don't want to fucking you know.

It's a valid tone. Sure no, not just sure, no, it's a valid because we gotta okay, you gotta look at you gotta look at it. At this as a business. Gotta look at it as a business. No, no, no, you can listen. You're here because I want you to tell your I know, but I also I want you to hear out all sides, and I want people to hear out all sides of how our business works. Like music is one thing. There's the nigga that works is nine to five shift and just does music for the love?

Is it a deal for just the rec Like I just I hear you. But I wasn't. But I couldn't though, it's what I'm saying, Like I didn't have options, Like I wasn't. I was twenty one, I was These were a bunch of grown ass men, but I was. No, I'm not saying that you're not grown I'm just saying that these were a bunch of grown ass men talking to me like grown ass men. And I was a twenty one year old woman. I'm not a man, right, so I mean talk to like a man even though I'm not a man. And like I just felt like, you know, because I knew they didn't fuck with me. I didn't want to do the deal because I knew didn't fuck with me. It wasn't even about like like I didn't care about the money, Like I didn't care about what like that was my dream. I came to LA to work with the underdogs, so you know, it wasn't about that, but it was like I knew what it really was, and so I was just like, man, I don't want to like that's not what I wanted. I ended up doing it because I felt that pressure of like, you know, I don't want it to come off like I just came, you know, worked with y'all for a year, did all this shit, met all these people and dipped. I understand the business, you know what I mean, But the emotional side comes from I mean, we just didn't have a good relationship. So I didn't want to do the deal because we didn't like each other, you know what I'm saying, Like I just I wanted to be signing somebody that I knew fucked with me for real, Like and I just felt like I was getting signed because I got a placement. Yeah what CHALL understand from a business perspective, Sure, but I wasn't a great writer when I got that placement. Yet I was the reason why I came there was because they were a production scene, right, So it was like I was going to be able to learn and collaborate and work with and do all the things you know in.

Your opinion for you personally, Yeah, do all those things hold weight? What you you know? What you what you went and learned what you know what I mean eventually to that, like you can look at it like your deal wasn't in favor of you.

And by the way, the deal wasn't bad.

But you know our first deal is No, it wasn't.

But I just want to say though, to be clear though, But I just want to say, to be clear, though my deal wasn't bad. It wasn't a bad publishing deal. It was a proper deal for the time and for where I was at.

Yeah, And because I'm using your experience as a teaching moment, because sometimes people will look at it and I'm glad you said that, like, no, my deal wasn't it wasn't the other it wasn't bad. Because sometimes what happens is when we get success.

We forget how we got there.

And this is something that runs rampant in our business. Sure, I've watched it so many times where me, on the other hand, I usually will give up more so somebody will never have that conversation about me. I've taken less, but that's not really my obligation. It's just who I am and what I've shown and to do so that I'm not in those type of conversations. But I usually take less are sometimes nothing at all. But what I find is that there are creatives because you know, artists false under the creatives get that success and they just don't remember what else went into that success of someone giving them that opportunity, of somebody teaching them, of somebody putting them in that room. Hell yeah, it is very important when it goes into they took.

My Yeah, well see that's not my story. But yeah, my story isn't that anything.

But you're the You're the first songwriter purely songwriter that we've had on here. Okay, that's what you came to this business is what I came to do. You end up doing more things, but profession songwriter. So that's why I want us to have more conversation about that process and just about people who are creatives understanding like listen man, like, yeah, the split is what is split is? But do you know why that split?

Ist?

You know, I just just you know when people are like, you know, the artist shall remain nameless, but oh, this artist takes twenty five percent. Well, that artists their artistry earned them more publishing on that song, or maybe earned them publishing on the song that they actually did not write because of what they're going to do to it and what it's going to probably change your life. So after I worked on in Sync and a Mama.

Was going to change your life, it don't change your life no more.

It changed mine in Sync.

That shit don't change your life no more.

If you get a Drake placement, it's going to change your life. It's going to change if you're gonna be honest. Single Okay, well no, I'm about to break down why it is even bigger than the single because now you're part of a conversation. Oh for sure will get you in a room that can lead you to.

But but but what I'm saying, both of you guys are saying the same thing.

What I think comes from being a part of whatever a Beyonce or a Drake process is the conversation right in the room. What leading to what she's saying is that in twenty in twenty twenty, or even up to maybe twenty two thousand and seven, where it was still speculative that conversation could lead to a greater game, like now, no, it's such an analytical conversation, yeah.

And it's such a political conversation. And then also like you can get it a Beyonce cut or a Drake cut, but you can have two percent of that cut, right, and then it might lead you to Justin Bieber, And then you get two percent on a Justin Bieber cut. It's still leading to the same role blocks. Do you see how many writers are on these songs, how much POSI?

I think it's that I've never gotten two percent. I don't even understand.

People are out here a getting little little pieces of publishing if the splits are even done at all, right, and so like, I agree with you, but I think that that model it doesn't work anymore because it's not enough. There's plenty of money, right, but it's not in majority of It's not in publishing.

It just isn't.

It's in the sound recording, it's in live shows, in merch and all these other things. And because these artists are taking twenty five thirty whatever it are taking plus samples and whatever, there's this little teeny tiny piece that's left and for everybody else to split. And so it's not like, yes, it gets you clout, but clout don't pay your bills. It gets you into another room. But then that's about whether you're good at other shit like marketing yourself, branding, networking that don't have nothing to do with being a good songwriter or being a good producer. Now you got to know what to do with it. Hit Like when I have replay, what I would do with replay now versus what I did with replay then is two totally different things because I didn't know how. I didn't know, like, oh, I should have maybe hired a publicist at that point. Maybe I should I do too. And it's like, you know, I talk to writers in the community all the time. They're like, yo, tip, I don't got this and I don't got that. And I'm like, you have to pay. If you want a billboard, you need to call the billboard company and you need to pay for that shit. And you need I'm like, because all the shit you see is people's own money they spend on theyself, right like, and but you know, you don't. It's not like there's a whole bunch of that knowledge is not readily available, you know what I mean, Or it wasn't not when I was coming up, you know. And so like unless things change, which is what I'm obviously advocating for, right, unless things change. When it comes to what other other royalty streams songwriters are included in publishing isn't going to be enough long term anymore because it's too oversaturated. Everybody got published. So like, while you get a place, so while it might be a big deal for you to get a Beyonce, placements about to lead you to another place where you can only get publishing. So if you can only get publishing, and you can only get because we playing politics, But.

If you're but here we are with that. If you're playing politics, and maybe you got a lesser percentage but a bigger cachet off of working with a certain artist, the next rooms you should walk into should and this is and this is on the writer. So I'm a songwriter at the heart of me, songwriter. This is what I also came out here for. I then come out here to saying, and come out here to manage, and come out here to be fucking talking head. Podcasting came out here to write songs for people. And I can only give my own experiences, and I can give my successes and my failures and how I moved within this business and how I see fit that writers should move. There are certain business you should make that will put you in an advantageous place on your next go round. Now, if your dumb ass, and I said dumb ass, because I want you to feel like a dumb ass, if you let that shit happen to you multiple.

Times, yea, then it's your fault.

Then it's your fault.

Yeah, yeah, right, I can't.

I can't hear this writer gripe about the fifth time I.

Agree with you, I'm the same way, like, don't come to me, and.

You know we hear it for sure. Fifth time, I'm like, well but you just.

But you know why though, because of industry standards.

Ain't no industry there are not it's not it's not we broke them ships down their industry standards because it's still implanted in our minds. Now, there are numbers that are just what they are right now.

That's what I'm saying. So you don't have any control over people, right, So, like if a writer goes into the studio and they don't have the politics in their favor, whether it be the relationship with the managers, the artists or whoever. Like I'm just telling you from being advocate, right, Like I get like I feel like the music industry is fucking therapist, right, Like I got DMS. This happened, and this happened, and it's a massive artist, big record.

It doesn't it doesn't matter, and yeah, that part don't matter, right.

And what I'm saying though, is that it's not just how we try to do business, because if the business is not received like us doing like for instance, like I don't write songs for anybody anymore because I'm not writing for free, right, I'm not showing up nowhere your time, yes, And my rate is my rate. It's my decision, right, So my rate is fifteen thousand. If you want me to write a record, it's fifteen thousand to me.

I'm rolling with that, thank you.

I'm rolling with that because I was I was trying to figure out a way to get into that cot Gear Records.

Not getting no free reach, not get free.

You're not getting free nothing. No, you're not getting free anything. Nothing in this life is free nothing, right, and so the thing that I'd be trying to get people to understand in the music business because it's like we always like our deal in the one percenters. There's a massive middle class in the music business that's writing all the album cuts, not the singles. They writing the album cuts, and they are not respected or given the same leverage to negotiate the things that we're talking about, Like it's easier for a bigger songwriter with more leverage because in your leverage, like I'm going through this right now, right like I'm I'm I feel like my advocacy has brought taking me places that I never thought I would go, right, and so I'm lit, but I'm lit for what I'm doing. So my profile is raised because I'm in the press and I'm into this and I'm into that, not because I write great songs. So when I walk into the room, now, all the other shit I do walk into the room with me. So these big as songwriters and big ass producers, they got they radio interviews walking in with them, they got their relationship with the music exec that whoever. That's how you're getting money. You're not getting money because of your song, you getting money because of who you are and what you bring to the table. And so if you don't have that, because that don't have ship to do with being a songwriter. Everything understand, I don't have nothing to do with being a songwriter. And it doesn't you have to do it. It didn't or it didn't.

You have to be you have to entertain This is the entertainment. It's music business, but it's also entertainment.

I'm talking about. But every every.

Aspect of this business is entertainment, especially now with social media, especially now with you know, the way that the algorithms work to make somebody even pay attention to little old me or you or whatever this thing is. It's it's just a it's a bigger it's a bigger game than it used to be. From that standpoint, like now you have to put more. You can't just be one singular thing. You just can't be that great songwriter. You also have to have a personality to get to.

Well, here's a question, here's a question I want to ask and that I think you can help answer as well. How do we get to a place to where there is a standard for songwriters to show up because with the producer, you're always going to negotiate a fee. Whether he's just starting out or whether he's a he's a there's always a production, which is what I'm trying to.

Get, which is what So so we've been the one hundred percenters have been working with Sony Music Publishing. We've been working really closely with a big John and.

Let's shout out. Let's shout out all the people that are behind that with you, like your your board of advisory. Those are very important.

Yeah, okay, So our two associate directors other names are Marie Alliance and Rosemary Tan and that's like Rosemary Tan, and then a guy named Gamorrow. That's our executive team. And then there's me. I'm an executive director where the like brains behind and you know, the machine behind one hundred Percenters. And then we have like a whole bunch of different like volunteers. We have, you know, a little crew Blush Micah, a guy named Zach Poor like really really dope songwriters, a girl named Cadence and yeah, we just like and then also I kind of feel like our following is a bit like an extended kind of thing because like a lot of the stuff that like I post and talk about and stuff like that. They be sending me all kind of like, Yo, you've seen this. You seem like I don't even got to look for shit anymore. They just dming me stuff. But yeah, so that's that's our team. And then we have other organizations that we work closely with. One of them is SONA. Another one is NMPA. Do you know what NMPA is? Okay, So and so NMPA is the National Music Publishing Association. So they're the trade association that represents all of our publishing companies. So they're like Board of Directors is Big John, Jody, all the like CEOs of all of the head all the publishing companies. Right, I work with the US Copyright Office. From the outside, I'm sure it probably looks like I'm just online talking shit all the time, like gosh, she just always complaining, she just always But most of my my Instagram and all of that is my megaphone. If I'm talking about something, I'm usually talking to someone, and it's usually about something that I'm trying to get done. So if I'm advocating about something, it's because I'm talking to that record label or publishing company or person's team and I'm you know, I use it as a tool, you know what I mean, and as a way to get to people sometimes as well. And so what we've been doing in this last year is like having the conversations like with the publishing companies, so we you know, were working with Sony. I just had a really great meeting with warrener Chappel two days ago, and we are having these real conversations like look like this is the reality for songwriters, like and so because so many people feel like they're not supposed to talk about any of this stuff, like they don't people don't know what's going on with they writers for real. And then also I feel like people get in the room, people like Big John and be like oh shit, like yeah, like where I Like, I'm so grateful for my relationship with John because like, oh my god, so dope, right he just like I don't I don't know. I like so many people I know that are like man, Big John helped me with this. He helped me with that, like and I got the same story. And me and Big John didn't start like I started beefing with him on the internet, Like that's how we for real. I called him out on the internet and he was like who is this girl? Like you know, but he was the first person that was like what is this about? Like what is this about? And he brought me out here to La, brought my whole team in, and I sat down in one of their like conference rooms, and I just was like, this is the truth, Like this is the truth. Like I don't have anything to lose anymore. I don't even care about this shit. I don't write songs no more. I'm not I don't even live here no more. So I just was like I bear my soul and he just hurt us, like in a way that I just didn't expect. And I've been giving the opportunity to help with modernizing all of this stuff. So these are all conversations that we're having with the publishing companies, and we're putting together plans, like I don't want to just be out here talking shit'm We're putting together solutions like the solutions that like, for instance, we're working on something called session fees for songwriters and producers. So if y'all do, if we do go do a session for Tank, whether Tank takes the record or not, our money is an attached to the song. Our money is attached to the session same way like an engineer exactly. And so I think I think we've all been talking about we need more money, but I think no one's ever really sat down and like put it. Put it yes, And so I was like, does this doesn't have to be million like big money. It doesn't have to be for it to be a livable wage. So the liverable wage I think currently in California is fifty eight thousand dollars a year. I'm like, can we get you know what I'm saying?

Like, I mean, but if it was on a scale based on a fifty eight thousand dollars a year, we talked salary.

We're talking five hundred dollars a day or something exactly.

It's not like you're going to be working every day. It's not like you you may not even get to that fifty eight thousand.

But if there's but if you're getting paid something, if there's a.

If there's just a rate scale, yes, that just says, you know, if I'm in this room, it's a working Yet, so is.

This for every writer? So this exists, do you have is there a governing body they have to come through? It would be for their players association.

You know, I think it will.

Be based on a label. It would be based on a label. So like if you where we're asking for is if your work. If a songwriter and a producer are working with a signed artist, they should be getting paid absolutely, So I agree, you know what I mean like they.

Should be hold what I'm mean asking is you know because in some of these situations there are writers that just end up at the session like, how do you well? Engineering?

This is going to help. I think one of the things that I think the session feed program is going to do is help with quality control because think about so this is I can't I can't like I will tell y'all like more of the setup off of this because I can't tell above the whole set up. But if we knew that there was some set amount of money for a session, would you let all your niggas pull up or would you control?

We've always controlled.

What I'm saying, so but so what I'm saying is that it would control itself because the less people that are in a room, the more money you make in is how we're setting it up so that it's.

Like you don't think it should be who's ever, whoever signed on to be a part of the session versus yeah, the amount well such, you know what I'm saying, because if if the scale is the same for every writer that's in the room, no one's money is more. It's just that, Yeah, we are just the only people signed to write this record.

Yes, well, and it just being way more communication between artists, management, record label, because the other thing that we're trying to solve with all of this stuff is like AMIN right, because the AMIN is it's fucking ridiculous, right. And so if there was more quality control, if there was more communication from the time the session is scheduled, before the song's even written, we already know who's in the room. So when we're trying to do splits, who's in the who was in the room? I can tell because this is who we paid, This is who we paid. So this is the writers, this is the producers, this is their contact information because we got them as a vendor in our system or whatever.

You know.

The other problem we have in urban music, yeah, is those split She's not being done the day of session, chasing somebody down to ask them how many d in these and and why on this song? And oh I wrote that one section before the was and I said, yeah, it's fucking ridiculous. Yeah, it's out of control.

People don't know how to negotiate business people don't Talking numbers is for some people intimidating, and so I think, especially like you know, people be getting in fights over splits.

They rather steal behind your back now.

Necessarily right, Like they're not gonna tell you yea, I'm about to like I feel like I should have thirty eighty. Yeah, they're not gonna say that, and that's not gonna happen. Yeah, it's not gonna happen this. But my thing is our goal is more so on like I can't tell y'all how to do your business. I just want to provide a better way for you to do it. And if you choose to do it that way, lit if not, if you take some of these solutions and flip it and do it your own way, because we're independent contractors, so nobody can you know, all of these things will look different. But I'm trying to create a floor. Like, if you were a teacher, you're not about to start making nothing. You're gonna start as an entry level teacher. There should be an entry level songwriter, entry level producer, entry you know what I mean, Like, we shouldn't be making nothing because people are paying to work. Like I talk to people that are like, oh, you know, I got to get a babysitter, gases, a million fucking dollars, all the things to just shoot your shot.

It's a job.

It's a job.

I paid to work.

I paid to work.

Get my initial into this thing as an adult, Like I paid to work, like I you know, I paid whatever dues I had to pay to get into it, and how many sessions I had to go to that didn't turn out to be anything.

Imagine if you got paid for all those sessions.

I might not have been as hungry. And this is just me, And this is just me because what I also find in our new industry is a lack of hunger, not with everyone, but with a lot where the struggle is just different. The struggle is different because it's way easier to hit the lottery these days than it used to be, because the you know, the gatekeeper's been pushed out the way a little bit. The gates have been pushed over to a certain degree where somebody can make a you know, a hit record off their couch and upload it. So I think sometimes some of the the bystanders and in the audience just sees it as man, we should be lit from the beginning. Yeah, and they forget what goes into this ship, and they forget, you know, or they don't even know. Forget they don't even know that, you know, Jay Valentine slept on the floor for nine months floor.

So and do you feel like you should have to sleep on the floor because I think.

I think that the level of hunger that exists or doesn't exist, I think, you know, that's gonna always that's gonna always be there, no matter.

Because I also believe that you should have a job while you're while you're working toward an actual deal.

But I think of it like this. You should work if you if there is an entry level, if there's an entry level pay, let's say entry level pay is one hundred and fifty a session. It's just just hypothetically, and you see guys who are making fifteen thousand a session. Well, that within itself, he is going to create that. I need that because all of that one you can eat and get your ubers, but it ain't changing your life yet.

But it's enough for you.

But it's enough for you to do it, to just do that, to hone in on be Like I think we came up, all of us. Yes, we came up and came up in an era where we had to figure out how to be great in spite of no matter what the conditions were. Like we're like the last of the Mohicans of that space. We weren't given shit nothing. We had you on the floor car like we were saying. But but I think some of the advantage in giving writers an opportunity to to live and work as a writer's is the developmental process because it's like in a sense, because it's like it's like it's like your son right now in basketball, you know what I'm saying, Like, I know you went to some camps or what have you, But had your development, had you had the opportunity to develop the way Deuce is developing, you're in a basketball player.

Different, Yeah, I get opportunity at least.

Yeah, definitely, you said. I'm saying, like, if you're asking me, you're NBA basketball player, and with being able to just focus on playing basketball, you know, And I think we're moving into a space or the blessing into moving into a space like that where writers can just write and focus on writing. I think we get to a space where we get the best out of people because I didn't start making my best music until I was not under durest making.

Oh my god, same where you're Yes, I didn't get my best music. So we were suffering.

Yes, so we said let's do it our way. Everything everybody.

I feel like there's so much suffering attack. Like one of the sayings that drive me crazy is a starving artist, because that's the epitot, Like it's the problem with the music. The music business is earning more money than it's ever made historically, right, so like for there to be starting starving artists is ridiculous. And I'm speaking only for like I always say, like, God bless the up and comings, God blessed independent artists, because I'm an independent artist. But that's not who I'm talking about. I'm talking about the people that are writing these songs that we tiktoking to because they're the people who are hitting me. We have a grant that's about to open in October. It is called the Songwriter Stimulus Grant, and my goal is to give out one hundred thousand dollars. The grants are twenty five hundred dollars a piece. Songwriters only you have to make under one hundred thousand dollars a year. Yeah, sorry, army money.

You got to.

Donate to the river.

And but like, the people that are hitting me are working songwriters. It's not these up and it's not them, it's us. It's our folks that should not be struggling people who.

Got records credit.

Yes, you know, and and I feel like that's the part for me where it's like creating music is so amazing, right, but like the business does such an incredible job at exploiting piece Well, was ignorance.

Top five R and B artists? Man male or female group?

Oh man?

Like only you don't say, might not vote with you?

This is like they can only like yeah, but like can they do other genres or is it.

Also do this point comes from the arn.

Well, I'm just gonna say my favorite artist of all time because so my favorite artist of all time is Janet Jackson. My favorite so my favorite song of all time is that's the way? Sorry? Okay, five one, okay, Janet Brandy.

Janet Brandy, amazing, amazing Stevie wonder.

That's great.

Another of my favorites is Usher Love Usher like somebody that I'm really enjoying. Who's music I'm doing right now is Lucky Day. I'm really enjoying his incredible artist. That's fine, right, I'm really enjoying it.

I like that. Okay, Okay, I like that. Top five R and B songs.

Okay, that's the way I love goes. It's my favorite song ever. Top five arm B songs, my top five. One of my favorite Brandy songs is Acapella. Okay, shout out TC not gonna amazing. Oh my god, just the vocal arrangement of that song is fucking crazy. That album damn, I should have named O Wait, but I said Brandy full. I mean the song that got my whole ship started was Midnight by Omari made so Midnight. You know what records I used to like. I used to like Maya a lot back in the day. Maya Yo, Like I was thinking about that song she had Fallen or like. I mean, there's a whole bunch of Maya songs I like. But I don't know a Maya record. Do I have to pick it?

Because it's discovery, it's about discovering.

Okay, so I'm gonna say falling. I love Falling by Maya. How many was that? Damn?

Okay?

Do I have the name?

Five?

Yeah? I can't get Okay.

Lock the doors yeah, okay, and make you sign this contract.

Talk about there wasn't no gun to your head because like, but the doors was locked.

As lights.

I was the only girl.

Okay, don't always even go.

You don't know what it's going.

I love the record.

I love the record.

Okay, all stressful, God, like you don't know?

This is crazy? There we go. This is the activist for R and B. Not just RB, no, just writer spirit writers. I mean, but you know we mostly reside.

The same ship over and over again.

All right, Okay, here we go. We're building an R and B vul trond, We're building an artist. Where do you get the vocals from? Where do you get the styling from? Where do you get and where do you get the passion? The emotions start with the vocals.

Where do you get the vocals from Brandy?

I love it? Where do you get the styling from Rihanna? You're going where you get the performance from? You're obviously building artist, building a woman. If God was a woman. That's what you're building.

And this is an amazing artist.

And if you are the emotion, the passion, who are you getting that.

From your soul?

You might have built the best artists. Yeah in R and B money.

History really Oh yeah, that artist is incredible. My god, the voice of b, the style of Ree, the.

Performance in the passion of Mary.

Hy my god.

Yeah, it's out here, out here. If you're out there, I want to.

Sign man, what and I'll come. I'll write a song for free.

What's gonna show up that man?

Goden, good job.

You with that. She's back.

Recover ladies and gentleman.

Recover ladies and gentleman.

I have tank no no, no, oh.

I'm tanking and I want to tell you about.

So that has Yeah.

Yeah, oh.

You're going to be amazing at this game. Boy, it's card. I ain't saying no names because I know you got stories lord, amongst your travels. The only rules are you can't say no names. The story can be funny or fucked up or both. Just don't say their names. It can't be me and such and such was that the you can give all? Yeah, it was the this female black artist or this male this basketball player that wanted to be in the music business. But whatever, she can't say their names.

Man, I have a lot of stories.

I know you do.

I know you do. Give us a good one without saying that.

A funny, a fucked up one or and this is just like a like a music business story.

No no, no, your journey amongst.

Your travels, amongst my travel.

Yeah. Yeah.

There was this one time that I went to the studio and I was not working. I just like on some like YO pull up type shit. So I'm like, all right, cool. There was this artist there and the artist had friends there and it was late. Shit was like starting to feel weird. They was talking about weird shit and I don't okay, so I don't do drugs. I smoke hellowe, but I don't do like drugs. So they had like I noticed that, like the girls were like going to the bathroom a lot. I was like, what are they doing, like you know, and the person I was in studio was like, oh, they probably whatever. And then there was like this really weird interaction with the artist and like one of the girls that she had with her seen before because she was a stripper. I seen her. I was with my homegirl at the strip clubs. Yeah, yeahs yeah, I was a girl at the strip club. She want to go pick up somebody and ship. She was like doing like a like a walk through whatever. Yeah, so she wanted to go get her money. She had like a birthday party or some ship. She got some money and so but I saw that, I was like, yo, I feel like I know this girl that was in the studio. The stripper girl and the artists were having like this weird ass argument and it was just like really uncomfortable. I was like, I think I'm about to leave, and the stripper was like.

Please, like please, don't do this to be please, And the artist was like get out, and I was like, what the fuck is She just was like and she walked out, and I just was like, what the fuck?

Kind of weird ship and I left. That's my weird story, okay.

And they had a cocaine fight.

They had like a weird ass they had. They had a weird like so the artist so the artist was like, I'm trying to figure how to tell her without saying that. So the artist isn't necessarily just the artist. The artist was also like one of those people that you see on like instad that, like how do I say? How do I say this? Like the person's an influencer, very like sexual and so like this person was like giving everybody like lap dance is in the studio and like just it just I just was sitting there really like you know, I'm like, yeah, like I'm here to work, like I don't know what's going on, and she's looking at your neck like I don't know what they're doing coke in the bathroom. She just cuss the stripper out. I'm going home. I'm going home. That's my weird story, just getting weird.

But your vultraun was amazing.

Thank you, You're like that was awful.

Sorry, so don't that in there.

That's I was just sitting here thinking about all That.

Is what it is.

And this is the R and B Money podcast. The authority on all things R and B Tiffany Fred Will value you. That you are doing is absolutely amazing. Keep pushing. There has to be changed, There has to be and there have to be people fighting for it, and those people have to be supported. You have a supported on her money.

R and B Money is a production of the Black Effect Podcast Network. For more podcasts, from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple pod cast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Don't forget to subscribe to and rate our show, and you can connect with us on social media at Jay Valentine and at the Real Tank. For the extended episode, subscribe to YouTube dot com or slash r and b Money

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R&B Money

R&B Money Podcast is hosted by the Legendary Grammy Award winning R&B singer/songwriter/producer TAN 
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