R&B MoneyOn this week's episode of The R&B Money Podcast, Tank and J Valentine welcome Mitchell Jones and Karl Reid of Commissioned to discuss the group's origins, musical influences, impact on R&B, and share stories from throughout their acclaimed career.
Touching on Commissioned's beginnings singing gospel music in Detroit, Mitchell and Karl explain how they incorporated R&B stylings to reach wider audiences beyond the church. We learn about the songwriting and production behind hits like "Ordinary," "Running Back to You," and "Hold Me," along with the group's drive to bring new production value to gospel performances.
Tank and J express appreciation for how Commissioned's artistry and harmonies laid foundations for 90s R&B stars and influenced generations of singers. Mitchell and Karl share funny memories from early struggles trying to break through and crazy times on the road.
It's clear these gospel pioneers made their mark through hard work, innovative sounds, and a passion to spread love through music. Their living legacy can be heard in so many popular artists today.
Enjoy Commissioned now on The R&B Money Podcast!
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R and B Money.
Honey, we are.
Thanks take valoti. We are the authorities R and B ladies and gentlemen. My name is Tank. This is the R and B Money Podcast, the authority on all things R and B.
Yeah, it starts somewhere. Come on, Bishop bad There is an origin.
Yeah, the Bible says in the beginning, that's what we have here on today. Yes, I'm talking about my beginning where the love, just where the love began for this thing right here. We got some guys in the building. That's what I want to get straight to him. Man, come on Mitchel Jones and call red of commission.
Thank you.
Listen the reasons, the reason for nineties R and B.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we have foundational building blocks.
Sean Stockman says his regards. Yes he does.
John's got off the phone with him. Sit there here since it's love. Wow, excellent, excellent, Like okay, you know I get it. You were you were commissioned, you were called to do what you do, and you accepted that call and you move, You moved in such a way that you know that lives were changed, you know what I mean, Like lives literally lives were changed without you even being there. Like like, I am one of those kids who in ninth grade discovered Commission. I joined this this gospel group called Brotherhood. And I've been in church, you know, all my life. But you know, I moved to Maryland, new surroundings, new everything, new school, and I meet these two guys in inquired class and they sing.
I'm like, well, I say we should be a group. Let's be a group.
It's like, we got two other guys in a group with or whatever at the church down the way. So I joined the group with them, their Brotherhood, and you know, they're heavy whinings, love the wine and shout out to the ones, love the ones right and and they're like, have you heard Commission. I was like, no, I have not heard commission. And they put on Commission. It's a rap. I had found somebody I wanted to be and his name was Mitchell Jones. Wow. We would argue, like you know how you like when you be a superhero from a cartoon, when you go outside the play it's Marvel characters. I was like, I'm Mitchell, you can't be you were Mitchell yesterday. It doesn't matter. I'm better at me. That's what we were doing. Wow, we're fighting to be Mitchell Jones.
Man, I just want to say I appreciate all the love that you've showing us over the last few years, man, and all the people that came on and you know and said some of about Commission. Is just good to know that Commission Music is still blessing people. Man, and you know, these gifts that God has given us. You know, all we did was yielded back to God. Because it's one thing to use your gift for God, use your gift for them. See you get performance, but when you yielded to him, you get presents. And we just thank God for how we just yielded to Him. And we just want to love people with our gifts. That's all we did.
Man.
We love people with our gifts, and that's that's what it's all about, man, still sharing the love of God. We were commissioned to do this, you know, we were sent by God, and we just thank God. I want to thank God for you guys again, and for all the guys in Commission that answered the call, because if they didn't answer the call, it wouldn't be no commission. I wouldn't be here, you know, So I thank God for Fred Michael Brooks, Keith Staates, Uh, Carl Reed, Jones, Park Stuart, Yeah, phenomenal songwriter singer.
Yeah, and uh who else we got here?
Yeah, you forgot Michael.
Williams, Michael Williams, all those guys as the call man, and I just thank God for that.
Like I said, we wouldn't be here if it wasn't for those guys.
Man, Just thank God for like I said, all the people that showed love to us, man, you, Jamie and all the other people that came on.
And it's been a blessing to know. Man.
Like I said again that our music is still blessing people, still still blessing.
Still.
I still play it. I thank you in my car. Period.
It was my introduction to church music, to the gospel. Really, yeah, I never I didn't grow up on it, obviously, I'm sure you guys the podcast. But the first gospel artist I had ever heard was commissioned ever like before, I mean, like you know, i'd heard names, but to actually listen to it, and I think I might have been like maybe fourteen or fifteen, and it just and my whole life. Actually I grew up on as I would call it, not even just r and B music. I grew up on Cadillac music, you know what I mean.
It was just pimps playing music they listened to. So that's what I grew up on.
And for me, the first time hearing Commission, it wasn't a shock because I felt like it was R and B.
Saying to God for me personally.
You know, it was love songs to God more so than it was I guess worship. It was more like if you close your eyes. In my opinion, they felt like R and B records to God.
For me, just me personally.
So I think it was an easy It was an easy transition for me to just go from you know, the R and B music that I was listening to, to listening to Commission as well, especially with the harmonies right. And by this point Jodysy was already going, so I'm like, oh, this is where it comes from.
Yeah, I didn't grow up in the gospel per se.
You know.
My father he introduced me to Niking Cole and through the early the late sixties, there was a contest who can sound like Niking Cole and they paid five hundred dollars and my father won that. He introduced me to Na King Cole and night. King Cole was the kind of guy that very technical, smooth, you know, you learn how to when to use vibrada, when not to use vibrada, Very melodic you know what I'm saying. Just phenomenal singer. So that's where it started for me. Then my brother who used to sing with dramatics, he introduced me to Stevie Wonder, Donnie Hathaway, Michael Jackson and see, doub you don't see that, I don't know see that.
No, come on, man, you know see that man, Charlie Wilson that I had to do that you're doing to see out there like you know, this is really you did that like he did.
And that's you know, that's that's that's the guy. I just did a show with Charlie. So yeah, yeah, he called me into the office.
Yeah, and we say we got on the stage together and and and and thank.
God together with with the crowd crowds going crazy, really dope.
I think there was such a like as he spoke on and I know, normally we like to go all the way back to the beginning, like origin, and then you went there, you started going in that King Cole and all of that, and then you got the smooth criminal sitting next to you, who just this is a smooth criminal, silky school, silky and smooth, don't miss, just right in there. And it was such an amazing balance because everything was placement, like you guys were in you guys were in the right places, doing the right things on every song.
Yeah, that's hard.
We tried. We all of the musical backgrounds from all the guys, Fred Michael Books, Mitchell, myself, Keith singing in choirs, singing in carls and gospel choirs in high school. A month for high school. We all went there and we had some amazing teachers and our background in Detroit. I mean I lived like maybe seven blocks away from Stevie Wondon in Detroit, and that was one of my first concerts. He came to Badley like in sixty nine. It's like, it's gonna be Stevie Wonder. I said, man, oh crazy, Stevie Wonder ain't gonna come to know Bagley Elementary. And the curtain opened and he's sitting there with the world is too and he's singing.
You're like, it is, Stevie, that's your elementary school.
At elementary school, that's correct.
And how old is he at this point?
Though, man, Stevie probably was around twenty twenty two somewhere right in there. I'm like, Stevie came to school, Well he was right up the street on Rose Line, so because it was from saconof but he came to school, and You're like, everything went through your mind about singing. That was perfect because it was Stevie And then.
Who was it?
And Motown? And you know Motown is in the same time we went, so we just you know, grew up listening to all the Motown sound, I mean listening to all of the gospel sounds. You know. We had a radio station called wor gpr DFQ that played a collose of music that was from soft rock to hard to regular gospel to whatever it was. And we learned and gleaned from people, because everybody learns from everybody. Nobody just shows up and said this is who I am. It doesn't happen that way. You listening to somebody. And I think we have a collection of stuff. Fred's background, Mitchell's hearing and learning and listening and being in groups. And I started singing when I was in elementary school, you know, Hollywood's Singers was one of my first tunes. And they wasn't singing it right, and I got a masked sayd man, y'all ain't singing this. I got to get this right. And so from that point to middle school, joining the glee club, and then only is the high school, and then singing in the choir, doing solos and stuff like that, playing drums and you just the music stuff started coming out of you, man. So I think our experience brought us to where we are now. And then all that stuff we learned. Because when you hear stuff, it's inside you. It's getting in there, and you take it and you use yourself to interpret what you're hearing. It helps mold you in shape you. So that's when we came. That's why we came to what we were doing.
So how does it get from you know, the beginnings of you know, Nat King Cole and and Hollywood Hollywood Swingers and all of this to commission?
How does that even business? In high school?
School together? We went in high school.
You tell me, tell what my little part, you can tell you you got the biggest part. Fred and I was in high school together. So I remember meeting him. He came to my church one day and he was playing the bass, and uh, I didn't know. I didn't talk to him at that time, but I saw him in school again. I said, man, you played the bass with grace. He said yeah.
So you know, he said you you go to that church?
I said, yeah, I go to I started the Church of God in Christ And so one day a friend of a friend of mine named Tony Clarkston said, have you.
Heard Fred sing? He said, come here, Fred, come here. So when Fred sang, I said, wow, Man, you played the bass and you sing, I said, man, you should be singing. Man.
He said, Fred don't sing much, but he's because he was playing the bass. A lot said you should be singing, and so Fred and he told Freddy, say Fred, you need to listen to Mitchell.
So I sang something.
He sang, I think one of the Donnie song and I sang on the Dney song and I said wow.
I said, man, we need to do we need to do something. So we singing in talent show and it went pretty good. Did you sing a gospel record in town show? Everything was changed okay and it went well. So we said, man, we gotta do something. So from that point, I knew Fred and I was going to be together, you know, no matter what. And I just feel like at that time we were probably answering the call but didn't know it yet, you know what I'm saying. And so later on we had another group called Apostles, me Tony Harn, Tony Claxton and Fred, and we didn't sing much around the city, but we sing in church in our church. Then we started singing a group called Saved, and that we did our first forty five and that was a phenomenal experience to hear yourself, you know, when you sing and you get a chance to see what see what it sounds like on table, and that was a phenomenal experience.
And we was excited about that forty five we did. But then that group broke up. So Fred started playing with the Winings.
I didn't know that.
Oh yeah, he started playing bass with the one and he was singing with him a little bit too right, and so he said, hey, man, listen, just hold up, man. You know we're gonna do We know we're gonna do something. So Keith and Carr was singing in the group and they did something in high school as well. I'm gonna let him tell that. But I started singing with them, okay, And I said, when I started singing with them, guys, I was like, we started singing around the city.
I was like, oh man, they're gonna be like the New Winings, or they're gonna be like the Winings. I said, man, I can't wake to Fred. I can't wait to Fred get in this. Yeah, And they was like, who is Fred? I said, you know Fred, you know she's singing with me and safe, he said, And I knew it. I didn't even ask him could he be in it? Because I knew you know what I'm saying. Because because I knew and Fred was gonna be together, we got God was gonna be together.
So when I said, you know, man, I can't wait till Fred getting this, they said, oh yeah. So when Creid came and he heard the band, the band wasn't real good.
It was okay.
But Fred had a group called the Unit Michael Brooks, Michael Williams, Wow, Mike Right, and Fred and they used to play.
Around the city, you know, weddings and things like that. So Fred kind of connected the band together. And I remember the first time we sang Michael Brooks came and played the song called the City, and we learned it. Man, when we sang it's a city in the distance, we couldn't even finish. Man, we ran out of there, like right in the world, right in the world. So we knew it was something that God put together. You know what I'm saying. We all That's why I say at the beginning, I'm glad everybody answered the call, because if everybody didn't answer the call wouldn't be no commission.
So even in the word commission. I remember when Fred we was talking one day and he said, Man, we got to think of a name. I said, He said, uh, you know, we commission office. You cause we went to the service together. He said, you like commission offices. I said, hmm, that sounded like a good name right there. And then the name it says right there. God chosen us and he sent us. He's the one put it together.
And man, we from then on, Man, we just went around the city, went around the world, and just began to share the love of God. Man, it was been a blessing ever since. I'm let Carl finish that.
Yeah, I don't know what else. No, my experience was the same church, singing to church. Keith and I went to the same church. I mean we were friends as as almost like toddlers of Bethlehem Temple. And so when his dad started the church, my family means to help start the church with him. But uh, in high school, you know, I was in the glee club, singing and stuff, and then we were singing church. So one day after service, we stood around the piano and started singing, and I'm like, kid man, we should start a crew. You know, let's do that. Cause my cousin played like classic piano, so he was playing and so we started singing songs. So we would sing Andrew Kraut songs, stuff like that. And the next thing, you know, we started the group Sounds of Joy, and we were trying to get his brother joined, but his brother wanted to do preaching, so he didn't. You know, preaches either got to sing or they got to preach, and so he preached, Oh, you can't do both. You can do both, but it's not gonna work for you. You gotta go a whole hog one way or another.
And so he went preaching.
So Keith was auditioning for a group called Blessed and Mitchell went to the rehearsal, and when he went to the rehearsal, he was hearing Keith singing. He's like like, man, you can really sing. And he's like, man, we got a group called Sounds. Joey should come check us out. And so Mitchell came over. Now, mind you, I knew Mitchell from high school and seeing him at church. So it was high school and church for us. Fred, Michael Williams, all those guys, and so he invited him to warn our rehearsals. So Mitchell came in, he listened to us and then everybody's noble. Mitchell plays and writes songs, so he sat on the panther to sing this. So he started playing and me and Keith started singing. The party gave us and we was like, oh my god, Mitchell, do you want to be with us? And he's like, oh yeah, playing And they said, man, I can't wait to Fred get in here. We're like, Fred, yeah, that'd be the fourth got cool. Cool. So from that point Mitchell was a liaison to get us connected with Fred. Fred hooks us up with the unit, and that's what what commission was. Those seven guys started the group Commission back in nineteen eighty two, eighty two. Now, I know some of y'all probably wasn't born in but that's how long it was we saw doing what were doing. I was I was six, but that's how long ago it was. And so we started pursuing to get a manager right, and we had some crazy experiences getting the managers and working doing gigs, putting money together and get in the studio because that was the goal. We got to get in the studio and do a record. We got to get a manager.
And so.
Fred knew the Winings manager, Derrick Dirkson, and so he went to say, man, would you like the manager? He's like, I'm managing the winers, Why would I manage y'all? So he said, he gave him a note, but we kept going. We met some other managers. Didn't turn out to be that. It was probably maybe two months later he was dismissed from the Winings and he put that phone call in said, hey, listen you guys, STI elevate on. He's like, yeah, I guarantee you. I'll get you a record deal, just give me two weeks. Sure enough, two weeks later he had a record deal with Light Records, went through Larry Strauss, and they gave us a lease agreement, right, which ain't a record deal. It's just if this one works, y'all get some more on. So we put that one out. I'm Going On came out July thirteenth, nineteen eighty five, hit on the radio like were on the radio, were on the radio. Plan I'm going on next thing, you know, But that's three years. That's three years. It took us three years to get from meeting, rehearsing together, getting to know everybody, meeting the manager, and getting a record deal. That was three years July thirteenth, you know, you don't forget those dates, and then we the rest is history, man song after song. So they came back maybe six months later and said, listen, we want to sign y'all to a real contract. Can we get four more options?
And we was like four more?
Oh yeah, So we signed for four more with that Light Records. So we did actually just six with the Light Records.
They put they gave six options, they gave us.
We did the one and it gave us five more. Yeah.
In the in the gospel world, yes, the business side of it, How different is it from the R and B side? I mean, I mean, obviously you guys have always done gospel. But I'm saying as far as just the points structure, the money structure is.
Like, is it.
Better? Is it worse? Is it like? Did y'all make some real money off of you know, these first deals or how does that go?
Absolutely? No?
Right, okay, okay, so doing it for the Lord, doing it for the Lord.
Absolutely.
It's a world of difference in the gospel than it is. The budgets are a lot bigger, even how they do radio. Everything is different in gospel than when they do it in the secular radio.
As far as so it's bigger in gospel, you said it's bigger in R and B always way bigger than RB.
You know everybody's once we got going, we really want, man, we really want to get a secular deal because they got the budgets, they got the marketing. Oh that's a different world.
So if you remember, do you remember what y'all signed for?
What we signed for. Yeah, we didn't get nothing. We just signed huh, we got nothing. We just signed for the more options period. I think our first but not more money, No, I think I think probably our first budget may have been like twenty five thousand, maybe.
To make the record to finish y'all to eat for everything.
Yeah, yeah, because in gospel you only make your money if you travel Rodney road money. You know, the budgets for marketing and all that stuff for radio and everything. It's nowhere near secular, right, So we just had to go with the flow. And you know, to answer your question, my friend, absolutely not. You had to keep your day job to sing.
And that's the part. So it's like the old NBA days and I didn't score forty, you still have to go be a fireman.
That's that's the part that bothered me, you know so much when I was in gospel about the industry is because you know I was, I was kind of dabbling in the R and B as a writer and a producer.
But you know, we had our group called Psalms.
Yeah everything y'all been saying, it's all things I've seen the Bible, bless say Psalms. It's all in some way, it's got some fire with related to the church offer. So rout one, I just I went into this space where like and I told this story before, where I went and saw I went and saw immature perform when I was writing and producing for this girls group and and at that time we had the hottest group in the city with DC Maryland Virginia.
Like we were.
We were the guys, right, and.
You know, I thought we were doing something as we would, you know, kind of set up our mics and sing our songs and have our band playing. I thought we were We're doing something, I thought. I thought we weren't. And I watched immature, three little kids put on a show in an arena. I watched them go crazy. I'm watching the musicians. I'm like, those are church guys. I'm listening to the tracks play, I'm hearing the effects the back. I'm like, what is that he's playing? The MP secret you.
You guys are the first guys I saw do that though, But I'm watching.
I'm like, and I thought to myself, I was like, with with with this, with this amazing message that we have, right and and we're such a great singers, we wouldn't be able to follow these three little kids because we're missing something. Why can't we be as Why can't we have as much show for God as they have for whoever they have it for?
Why can't we? And I was on a mission.
I had dancers, I had lights, I had the tracks, I had everything, and the church couldn't handle the power and the power went out.
It was like we was coming out and everybody was like everybody couldn't believe what was happening? Is alot?
Like you smelled something bad. It was bad, and so we you know, we gotta I gotta get on the piano. We gotta just finish it out and just you know. And in my mind, I'm like, okay, okay, that just means we have work to do. But in everybody else's mind it was, no, that's not of God. And I'm like, how does something being difficult become not of God? Like how does that work? Like this is our first time doing this, and this is you know, all that dancing and all that outfitting and showbolding. I said, it's not show bolding. These are the gifts he gave us, gave us. I'm trying to use my gifts to the acts for him. What is wrong with that? And and I got kicked out of that group, not kick, maybe they left me in the group. And I was in the group by myself at that, you know, because I really had but I had a desire to do something big for God, and everywhere I went, nobody wanted to do that. So I started dabbling R and B where I knew they wanted to do big things and outcomes. Kirk Franklin would stomp and I'm pissed. I'm up at arms. I told you, I told you.
That we can celebrate God as big as we want. That's right, but it comes down to the money.
But what I'm saying is that, what I'm saying is that and it all comes down to consumer right, consumption right, and how many people who's consuming the product and how many people are consuming and that kind of dictates the market right. But I just felt like, I'm just giving you my my path. I just felt like with such a powerful message, they they should. There should be millions for marketing, there should be hundreds of thousands for budget. You know what I'm saying. It's just my thinking because of what we're representing, and it just wasn't the case even now now that they've seen we're breakout artists like a Mary Mary, you know what I mean, tight tript all these breakout moments.
You see that it's possible, you see it. They're doing arenas they're doing. I don't know.
I get, I get, I get passionate, Yeah, because I just you know, I don't know, but those budgets are so different, and I just don't.
I don't.
I don't think. I don't think that it's fair. No, I don't think you should give up though. You know, for people that's coming up in the music, when they have a dream, you know, a vision and what they feel God when I'm do, don't stop.
You know what I'm saying, Just because you had you've been discouraged, you might be discouraged by the people that don't accept it.
You got to keep on pushing it.
You know.
That's why Kirk Franklyn come out. I'm pretty sure he got rid cue for some things he did commission. When we first started and they were talking about, man, that ain't gonna work, but we kept going. We didn't stop. And I think for anybody's coming into the gospel, don't stop, you know, keep going and find some support, find somebody to misupport you.
I think that's more of a testament of you guys being able to break through without having the same resources needed to do such a thing. Like y'all were really y'all were really in the streets with this music, like church to church, door to door. Like I saw you guys at evangel Church, Central Avenue, okay, kid, and I'm just like, I'm trying to worship God and not worship you guys. But I'm like they look like.
This is like for Jesus, Jesus.
But see.
But see, what what you probably recognized was is that you were the person that we were doing that for. Because we didn't get to support like the quartet or the choir the stuff like that. We had a purpose in our hearts that we were gonna do it. Because we didn't have to just do quartet. We could give music to where if a person just came out of the street and wanted to come to church, they could hear our music and Saya waite that gospel that relates to me, you know, feel that that relates to me. And so what we did was if they were playing the profit on stage, we wanted the profit on stage. If they had the DX seven, we want DX seven back in the day. If they had lights, we got lights. If they had smoke, we're gonna do smoke. And we did our first concert and we had smoke, lights, glitter, you name it. We had because we felt like we.
Had to be excellent for God the power and go out on y'all. Though the power didn't go out because we were an older church. This is why they're commissioning. Why are you doing R and B now, Well.
We didn't do that at church. And see what we did. We had we had to go to the venues and had the power for us and you sell tickets and sometimes we did venues and they were selling alcohol in the in the Vestibu or whatever like Fox Theater, places like that State Theater. We wanted to be there because we thought that gospel people deserve to have the best.
And so we yeah, I took it outside of the church.
We took it outside the church. Wherever they have in concerts, that's where we want to have a concerts.
Oh wow, and so it.
You know, it took a while for the catch on, right. You know, when you a trailblazer, and I think we trail blazers and somedays first people that went out west and get to live and all the good stuff, they had to trail blaze a lot of stuff that they're doing now riding on tour buses fly in places. Man, we were on vans with smoke coming through the bottom going to do gigs because we knew we had a purpose. We're gonna break this ceiling. We're gonna we're gonna take this professional stuff to where it needs to go and raise raise the awareness of the people. Y'all. We deserve more than just have a church. It's an organ, the keyboard won't play, the lights go out. We felt like, man, we want to show how much them, like, how much to do does it cost to bring the trust in for lights? Oh, that's coming to be, bring it in, give them two more thousand and bringing in. And that's what we aspired to. It took us a while to get it going, but after a while it started catching on, not just for us, but it started catching on for other people and they started wanting the same thing because they saw us do it. We probably didn't get paid that night, right, but they saw a show, so they went home and said, man, I'm going to the next one. So we were building something, and it takes a while to build something, and that's what we did. We took up. We took our time building something, and it's where if you see people doing stuff now. They were the first ons did that back in the eighties and maybe not sorry if that we had to suffer, but somebody got to somebody else, somebody got in R and bright way, somebody had to suffer. We don't get there.
We know, we know it. You answered my next question because it was I was getting ready to go to the place where what was behind the design of orchestrating the music in such a way, because like for me, it was the first time I had heard a first person point of view, like you were singing from God's point of view, like I am here, you know what I'm saying, or you know, in the reverse hold me like like you're like you're singing to God. But it's like I definitely thought I'm here was an R and B jam. Yeah, it's like it's like these are songs. These are like let's say you're in a marriage or something, you sing these to your wife like or you know, like what what made you do that?
Well? Mitchell is the secular really.
My partner, uh, part partner of my writer writing partner, Park Stewart. Such a phenomenal to me. He's one of my top ten writers. Yeah, phenomenal lyricists. I mean number one, number one, my number one guy, you know, so yeah, not one guy, oh yeah, oh yeah. Phenomenal lyricists man and singer too, you know, very melodic.
You know.
Sam Cook was this guy, you know, phenomenal, and uh, we got together.
Man.
I remember somebody somebody was telling, man, you gotta meet Parks. You gotta meet Parks man, y'all so much alike.
And somebody was telling him, you gotta make Mitch. You gotta make meet Mitch. So we met, and man, we met. We hit it off so well.
Man.
I found out that he hoped and I hooped. So we did a lot of a lot of things we go.
Now we got the gospel.
You know, John used to who things have a hoop after the concert and everybody everybody say, who listen, we all get you know, a couple of John I'm sure you know that's Isaac Isaac to save his life, I want to ask him, and that's take six, okay.
And Brian mcni oh.
Yeah, he runned it off. What he's saying, ask about me? Yeah?
And so you know, we hit it off, man, and a lot we a lot of things we are in common, and so Parks brought I am here to me and uh, you know it comes out of our experience with God. You know, our relationship with God, and it was more than relationship with fellowship. You think about relationship a marriage without love, It's no, it's no marriage. You know what I'm saying. So you got to have this relationship is a love and loverlylationship with God. And God wants to share his love with us. He wants us to know that he loves us, and he want to love us on a personal level. So when we see that kind of love coming to us, we say, man, God want to share.
This love with everybody.
What kind of love is? It's a perfect God love and imperfect people perfectly. And that's what commission is all about. We want to let everybody know we all, none of us are perfect, but this perfect God loves these imperfect people perfectly. We want to share that same love. And God has uh, he is love. So therefore he's expressing himself through us. When we give ourselves to him fully, then he has full possession of us. He can have full expression through us. God want to tell you how much he loves you, So he want to tell us all he want to show us all. So we got together and wrote them songs man like I am here, hold me, you know crying, Let's.
Let's die, Let's let's starve too fast? I am here. Let's start there. We'll start dissecting some things. Did you you did this? I was loved that song?
What was going into the melody? Right? Was it just because of the dynamics in your voice that those things came out?
Or was that the melody? That was the melody?
Mm hmm.
That that them in there?
Yeah, that's the melody.
Oh yeah.
What's important is as interpretation. Of course, we have to write songs where the melody matches the lyrics. You know what I'm saying. If we have dark chords, then we might want to talk about, you know, situation trouble, different situations like that. If it's right, we want to talk about joyful situations. So interpretation everything. I give you an example, and I don't want to swell nobody, but it's a it's a song called uh. I don't want to say that. If I'm if I'm.
Saying I want to fly away, why would I sing a melody like I don't want to fly away? No, I would say I want to fly away. You see what I'm saying, because I'm taking off. So interpretation is everything. So when we writing a song, we want to make sure not that you hear will hear me, but that you hear what I'm saying, because the message is more important than me. Of course, you see what I'm saying. Sometimes we as sing as we get in the way we do too many things. We get distracted by trying to get me over rather than the message over me, and so parks and now that's that's the way we do it. When we're writing, we're trying to find the right melody to go with this song. We're trying to make sure that the melody is matching the words right.
And I feel you. But there was subtle difficulties within those melodies.
When you say difficulties, what you mean just just little little cliques right, just that fast that were just like those tastes, those tasty little more souls. Well, my brother, my brother told me, he said, when he introduced me to Stevie, Donnie, Michael Jackson and Charlie, he said, listen, what you want to do is you want to imitate them. First thing is imitate the second thing is assimilate. The third thing is master.
The fourth thing, I'm sorry, the third thing is what I say, imitation, simulation, master, and innovation innovator. So when you talk about it, well, when you learn those you first get it and you try to you know, you're imitating, you're taking it in those Michael Jackson, Stevie wanted Donny Hathaway. Learning those little things, then you assimilated, you kind of perfected a little bit. Then you make it your own. You master it, then you become an innovator. Not everybody becomes an innovator.
They don't.
Some people imitating, They may imitate the next person, the next person next, and they never find their style.
Okay, so let's break it down.
The crack here. This guy that's Michael is the crack Michael. Well, yeah, Stevie do the crack too, Yeah.
Riding on the rocket.
Yeah absolutely, absolutely, absolutely, Stevie there too.
Absolutely, I don't like your attitude.
Yeah, that's okay, absolutely, And then I know that I know the fast switches in the middle are are Stevie and Charlie and Donnie and Donnie too. But the but but the vibrado is like a mix of Donnie, I think in Charlie, Okay, that's what I think.
Don't leave that King co out of that.
Now that that is not.
What that teaches you is the importance of melody and tone and articulation. He had phenomenal tone and melody, and he would interpret the song right. He wouldn't get in the way so that the message. When the message get over, we all get over. But when I get over, the message get lost. Yeah, so important thing is, and musicians do the same thing. They might overplay and play before you know it, it's crowded keyboards. Gonna have a spot, the base, gonna have a spot, a good time, gonna have a spot. But when they all just doing stuff, it's all in the way. The message is no longer clear. The message gott to be clear and understood. Melody is so important. We never lost the message. And even through what I would dare to say, the innovative melodic choices that you guys made, we never lost them and made the message that not much more powerful because it was like we were receiving the message in a way we hadn't heard it before, which just blew our minds completely.
And an end from a perspective, we hadn't heard it from before. Did you guys have to fight for that?
As far as creative from a creative standpoint, either with the label or even just within the church.
Almos so much about the label didn't really fight us unless they didn't like, you know, you had the session sit down, know this song that we're pitching songs. If they didn't like a song, it wasn't that they didn't don't do it. Don't do the song and maybe go back to the table and do something else. And so they left the creative stuff to the producers and they left the interpretation up to the singers or what we did, because it kind of like look, we kind of like looked like we know what was doing and we did what we did because when we brought something to you it was that, but we just sent stayed there. We evolved to more and more stuff, you know. So but it was like I said, it's a collage of all the stuff we heard and then making sure you stick stuff. See, discipline singing is hard to do if you don't have nobody around you that makes you be disciplined. Mitchell Jones is like, do this, non do that, do this, Fred, don't do this. Do it, And so you have to have a little bit of a challenge because if you hang around with mediocre people, you're gonna be some mediocre. So you got to have somebody that's gonna challenge and pick stuff out. Like I didn't really sing false when I was in the first group. I didn't start singing false until we started a commission. Now that's all I do is sing false. I know I'm singing false. What's the thing is? Okay, okay, I'm doing false cruising. So it's people have the ability. Talented people have the ability to pull stuff out to you. A great producer mintioned, a great producer pull stuff out of you you didn't think you had, right, So a producer makes a real big difference where you're going, how you sound, how you evolve into a singer. Yeah, so you got to surround yourself with people that challenge you.
Oh yeah.
One of the things we Parks and Now would do would be like if we sing a verse here, we make sure that the next the next line would compliment the last line, you know what I'm saying, and then the next line will set up the next line so that it's going somewhere.
It's making you great stories feel it.
Yeah, absolutely, So it's important that each line compliments the next line. Just don't sing anything, you know what I'm saying, but make sure the melody is right, make sure the message is clear.
We listen back and say is that is that clear enough? Is it a better melody? Because when you play a chord, there's certain notes in that chord that I can sing. It's one melody in there that'll make the chord sent out, Yeah, of course, and there's some notes I can sing that don't make that because we want to make sure that the course, the melody, all that fits so that the message become more clear. It kind of like invites you more into it. And I think there's a thing that that you know you said earlier about presence any vocal, they're not having to do a lot if you truly have presence, Yeah, within your vocal. Let's get to you, carl uh. Secret place? Is that what we're doing? Can we go there?
Can can we talk about that?
Let's talk about it a little bit.
We can get ready for just a little bit of secret place. Yeah. Yeah, please.
From the pen of some very good writers. I grew up listening to some a lot of different people on the favorite singers was Bibby cole Well got got rested, so he just passed away. Great singer interpretating and the songs and stuff. And uh, I used to all we did a lot of Van Riot and stuff. Everybody brought their own music. I brought my music. I brought Chicago, I brought Bibby coy Well. Sometimes you reach back and get a little Toto, you know. I used to list like Phil Barry, I like gods. They didn't do a whole they didn't do a whole bunch of running, but they you felt, you felt as you you felt them when they did it, and they interpreted the song. So you know, I tried to pride myself on singing, you know, songs like that. My brothers used to was in a rock band, if you can believe it, and uh doing rock. I know y'all probably never heard of Acre Winning, Johnny Winning, old rock and rollers, and uh, you know you hear them. You you you downstairs listening to under the Door. They listening to that music because you too little, You aren't supposed to be down in no way, but you're hearing those things. So what you're hearing will have an influence on help you develop your style and all that stuff. So I listened to all that kind of stuff, and so Secret Place was birthed out of us listening to some styles. And when they heard that, they wrote that song Secret Place kind of sounds like a heart of mine. The style was more of an adult contemporary you're saying it, And so that's why I was the adult contemporary guy. Fred wrote songs like that. Mitchell will put me on. I think Mitchell man because he let me sing some of those R and B songs like I Am here. He let me sing a verse on that. I appreciate him put me in the R and B vein so.
Clean.
But you take somebody to pull us up out of you know what I'm saying the coach and so Secret Place is one of the signature songs that we did. And but it was the thing about that one is melodic.
You were floating it's and.
You gotta float with its floating on place. You know, Man, I ain't never heard no heavy false like yours. I'm like, I'm just singing man, we're talking about oh yeah, Because you know, when you're singing false, it's always a break line between natural and Uh, so a lot of time. I had to sing it hard to do false. Menchell Man, he got that head false. He can sing in his head that false and make them notes. But it was interpretation, interpretation song for me doing the secret place.
So we're the false guys.
Things falter because when you get older, that's all you can do is yeah, my falsest is.
The last man standing. Listen my chest voice to give me issues, right, but my false you don't want this work false nasty and.
And the people feel it. The people can really feel the false. When you do the false, you do it because it fools on a certain heart stream that it's almost like crying almost when you do the false. That's what commission being in the commission pulled out those talents and pulled out those gifts that you didn't know you had.
Yeah, that's crazy.
And I was singing false the whole time in my group, and a guy in my group could actually sing first apron and it's natural. Wow. And I looked at him like and we didn't know for years or even know, we didn't even know it. One day we just testing range and he starts doing them. Look at him like this, I'm not going there.
So you got me getting light headed all concerts and you do this in your chest right right.
So we brought up we had a lot to contind with, but we knew we were supposed to be here, yeah, and do what we did. We did it for God wanted us to do it, and we knew we would hope, hopefully would influence people to do what they were supposed to do, to be called to do. Yeah, and I think we inspired a few people.
Boys to me Joosy Jagged Edge Tank.
Like.
You can just go down the list of everything that came after y'all in R and B music was attached some way, some way, wow, some way melodically one way or another, a couple of artists that probably stole some melodies and lyrics.
Still you know, still that's amazing.
Yeah, I'm shook. She got over there.
Of y'all listen to R and B music sometimes, as you allude to some of your influences from back in the day, Oh yeah, we would like to.
No yor.
Top fun, your top five, top f.
The top five by sings.
We want to know it already be so.
We are to know it's not just church. Sometimes it's the bomb and we want to know.
Yes, raw, yeah, no time be crazy man funnic.
You singing the wild notes in front of Commissioner.
Hit every nast note, you hit it right. Let's start with you, Mitchell Jones, your top five R and B singers down here haway mm hm, Stevie Wonder yeah see do see do not gonna get that off again. I know who that is.
Charlie Wilson. If y'all started late, is Charlie Wilson Aretha mm hmmm, Michael, yeah, Michaelchael.
Jackson, Yeah, yeah, yeah, Michael had grown men trying to sing like him at nine.
Yeah, that's different. You want you want some of this car? I want to take some of it. Mine might be I won't have to take Mitchell's too a little bit. I'm gonna have to say.
Stevie because he's the first secular artist I ever seen saw sing live when I was about eleven, and he from your neighborhood, and he from the hood, from the hood. I'm despired going to catch you off by surprise people, Bryson.
What do you mean people's people?
People?
I was studying and short listening. I'm like people got a twin because he doubled in his vocal.
People sold that, any of them people.
Bryson love that, I gotta say, Charlie Wilson, man, I loved Whitney Houston.
Oh yeah.
The voice Whitney Houston was like it was amazing. I loved her. And if I have to say old school, I really did like Marvin Gaye.
Yeah, because he was.
A crooner, soulful crooner. He was very passionate when you hear him singing. And he lived in the hood, same neighborhood he lived on out of Drive. He was actually recorded Let's Make Up Tonight in his living room on out of Drive. Marvin gay He's right in the hood. So those are my top five that right there, and uh got to get it up. Keep on. Backyard party. Wasn't supposed to be there because I'm a church boy, but I was. I'll go over there, I'll go over there.
What do.
You see the Lord? You tell him I'm not here, Tell him I'm not here, alright. Top five R and B songs.
Mister Jones, Ribbon in the Sky, m hm speak wonder m h Donnie has the Way a song for you, Charlie Wilson, keep running m hmm.
Luther Houses not on mm hm do do do do do? Okay, okay, And.
So I know I know that earthwork the Fire is not a solo.
But let's go.
Hm hm.
Oh yeah, that's my fire. That's musicianship at its finest. Oh yeah, earth wind and fire. Mm hmmm, it's finest. You Carl, what you can, what you want? Do?
Do for love?
Bill some thought of a bridle right there, and he's doing.
I like Stevie.
I liked Peter so Terra have the sing song.
The song is huh Stevie's song? What song is Stevie?
There?
She said?
Song songs over joy? Oh my goodness, come on, man, Stevie anything he did? I mean, I just called to say I love you.
I sing it to a girl one time.
That could have been a commissioned song. Starting to come out, starting to come out. He said, No, that wasn't a Pennies now come to find out.
Uh, and I.
We always love you. That's like one of the all times, because you kid, I got one more. Yeah, and I love this song as a little boy.
I'm going to knock on your doing your window pain Usa mm hm oh yeah.
I can't go wrong.
At all. Y'all are naming all historical at a high level. Let's do the Let's let's do a voltron. Let's put together your ultimate R and B artists. We're gonna mix it between the both of y'all. Okay, So what we're gonna do is you're gonna build your arm b artists. Who you're gonna get the vocal for the artists, the performance style for the artists, the styling of the artists, the passion of the artists. And you know, since we have so much creative excellence in the building, who's gonna write and produce for that artist? So we'll start with you, Mitch, who's gonna get the vocal from for that artist? Donny mm hmm, donnay real fast with that Carl who you don't get the performance style from.
Man showmanship, It's got to be Michael mm hm Yes, sir, Yeah, and singing like what he's come on?
Yes, passion.
Who are you gonna get the styling from? Yes? Since you started, since you started the gumby, Yeah, you got the gumby.
You know what I'm saying, y'all brought the street culture to the church, and you know them threads and the party shirts, guess jeans, pencil pocket. Marvin had the style.
To this day.
He still got today. This is Marvel, the passion of the artists, the heart of the artists. Mm hmmm, who mean it?
They really mean it? Oh man, Mitchell took the last one, Marvin. I thought Marvin minute when he's saying.
You can you can double up.
You can double up on Marvin, who you said you can't lose, can't lose?
Okay, the first course collaboration, that's what we see all.
I'm gonna go to reatha.
Yeah, that's that's that's that's that's pretty fire. That's pretty fire. Who's writing for this artist?
I got two people?
But yeah, I'm looking. I'm looking at you. But I'm gonna see what you say, Peter.
You want David Foster.
David Foster.
Mm hmmm, David Foster phenomena, phenomenal, phenomenal Yeah, mm hmm.
I mean, how do you argue David do a really big name out.
He's right, I mean, he's a phenomenal, right of man, phenomenon right love Parks. But I mean you can.
Have no qualm with you saying David Foster, I have no qualm you definitely should have real what you got laying in the stands and I can tear it into Oh no, he gots up.
You know he got gospel gospel only parts and I could turn off some worldly pass r V.
Oh yes he's doing who's producing?
Where's my term? No?
No, get the producer? Did know you did the writer? You said, I can do both, but you can separate them. I'm not get in the middle of that.
Go ahead, well.
You can.
You gonna tell me what I'm gonna tell him. I have to go with Terry Lewis and Jimmy Jane.
Yeah, I mean I don't.
I don't think I've heard nothing bad they put out only Yeah, I mean they did everything. You know what I'm saying saying you get them into that doc with the hats on too while they producing.
Yeah, man, they were maniacs. Yes, yes, the many.
Absolutely absolutely phenomena. Like it's still not to this day. Nothing close yep, yeah, no not then nothing close. You go see Janeting concert. Oh yeah, you're like, oh, got it, got it producing, got it, got it?
Man, we were we we came up listening to Time and uh, you know Prince and that era. That's when stuff was really changing. I think for everybody stripting come from from disco that era. Man, it's jamm and Lewis Lewis Monsters the time. And oh, I gotta say, it was hard for me to stay in church because a song came out called Flashlight. We're all right George Clinton Last Light.
Last Light almostran about the church.
How are you gonna go to?
How they gonna play that? And then you gotta go singing, uh, come down Jesus on the main, like wouldn't you.
All last like to be? Like I figured it out. I was that guy. I played everything in church I was supposed to play.
I was that guy you pushed it, you pushed push, did the pastor that would stop you and say he.
Was with all of the Shenanigans. He wanted all this, But do you passed a REFERENTI room Petty saved my life. I was going a whole nother.
Direction, save your life life. But he was.
He met me where I was. He is the street guy too from d C. So he understood me. And you know my connection to all of it, which is how I got connected to y'all. Like it just all made sense at the at the right time. You.
You're saying exactly the reason why I believe Commission what they did. We were able to reach people that other people weren't reaching, like the Quartet a Quiet people for that purpose. We were able to reach people because we were trying to do Time and Prince. You know, we were trying to we were trying to get to those people that we just got saved that an feel like they had an outlet because they didn't want to sing the old heymns. We're trying to give them something they can sing. And that's what we did. A lot of old hymns we took and turned into commissions on right, so they'd be like, oh man, that's old hinder. But the testimonies that we had for us about people in college, struggling in college, in your dorm room, don't know where the next meal coming from, trying to take your life. Ye, the testimonies My roommate left your album and I never listened to gospel, and I.
Put it Onst Atheists and I listened to it after God.
And that changed my life. I started running. So when people tell us stories like that, that's the reason why we did this, to get that because we saved some people turn their life around, didn't kill themselves testimony like that. Man, Come on, man, what's better than that billion dollars being streams? What's better than that? Yeah, nothing saved somebody's life. We we we live for those moments, man's and so we know that we're leaving that mark, not just the music mark, because we know that's gonna be there, but the mark of people looking back and saying, Wow, we looked back and said, man, we did this, and God was able to get glory out of this, and people's lives were spared and saved. That right there when we can just about finish it up right there with that save lives people now who are doctors performing surgeries in their careers. And if it hadn't been for y'all, I wouldn't have made it. So those type of testimonies, Man, listen, how much of cars we pay for ourselves and go to get that testimony to save somebody and get their life together, man, because that's what it's about for.
Us, you know, getting the ministry to the places where they need it. That's right, That's what I've always been an advocate for. Streets needed, and that's why you was pushing you want the lights and the lights went out.
That's why you did that.
He came back you.
Excellent.
We got one more segment for you, gentlemen. We're gonna hold you long man, but you know and all of your and all of your travels, we have one more segment.
Gonna bless our soul.
I ain't saying no nicks. Yeah, I ain't saying no names. I ain't saying no names. Ain't saying no niggas. Where you was, what you did, don't say, don't say, I ain't saying no.
Yeah.
I've watched you'll segments on that one, and I'm trying to figure out. We've been racking our brain on that. You're trying to figure out what we could tell.
That funny.
That's what's crazy.
Yeah for us, for y'all will be a funny or foolish, a rightish.
We're changing words.
Make it through this.
I said a bad way, you did say a word one, but God knows my heart. An atmosphere here, love it, love it, no condemnation, no.
No judging, judge, none of that.
So this segment, y'all watched the show called I Ain't saying no names. Tell us a story funny or foolish. A funny and foolish.
The only rules of the game. You just can't say no names.
We know it's some funny and foolish things going on in the gospel world too. Yeah, y'all can tell us some stories. Listen if you want to tell us the stump down Detroit stories, y'all can tell.
Us we went all of it.
Uh, Parks, don't look at me like that. Okay, you want me do it, we do it. This is nice, Okay. So one of our first flights, we were flying out, Uh commission, We're going somewhere on the airplane and uh, you're not probably get set up. The light goes on, Dean, you mean I'll move out to the camping blah blah blah blah, go to the bathroom. So I ain't saying no names. When somebody went to the bathroom in the group, and when they came out, they had a long string of tallert people out the back.
Of the.
Not on the foot, but at the back of the pass.
No, I thought it was the foot, It was pants. Oh No, I ain't saying no names.
Who.
But he didn't know until he got back to the seat that he had that home and it was like, oh my god.
To that. You can't.
You can't blow up the airplane.
Bad man. Listen, I can't, I can't, I can't. You got I'm gonna go wherever I go. No, I'm many airplanes and whooped them. And it's scary too because like some of those airplanes got the it's got the suction.
You know what I'm saying.
You gotta hold yourself. What happens that my little lady is waiting show. You don't want to go in because I'm in here. I'm in here because you know I'm in there. I'm settled in. You wasn't with commission at that time. In the last row. I had to get that all of me.
But that's one of the things we entertained ourselves with. Crazy stuff.
You mention I won't go to for two you just come on.
I agree with that.
The toilet paper, yeah, I whoop any bathroom. I don't care, white house plane, I don't care. My stomach is not gonna be eroding.
So you believe it's more room out than.
Absolutely absolutely, like this is natural, This flows naturally. Wait until you get off the plane. Man, No bathroom have you seen the bathrooms and the new Delta airplanes they're really nice. Fire they're not that nice.
They got enough room. No they don't, Yes they do. So you did it in the old one though, too. I didn't know. I didn't like.
He did.
You wipe your head, you know, and I keep my wife's only just in case anybody's still dry wiping in twenty twenty three.
You are out of control now that I agree with.
You are out of.
Bounds, and you probably stink.
They wouldn't let me bring mine to security WI. Yeah. No, when when I was going through they put through my base. Oh, we gotta gona they're gonna take over the plane with some wet worms. They would not let this plane. I said, what do you think you got? I got some cocaine in there, soaked in or something.
It's just wipes.
Okay, you just gave him the whole suggestion right there. It can happen.
It can Yeah, yeah, I.
Knew he's gonna get some Detroit playing.
You know. It was this one time they put you know, oh, brothers, listen, man. I can't tell you how much we appreciate you, man, and thank you for making the trip, you know, thank you for thank you for the information. Thank you for the music you've made. Thank you for the lives you've lived and continue to live. Thank you personally for me for changing my life, for blessing me in more ways than you could ever imagine, you could ever imagine. And still to this day, I still play them songs and play them albums to this day, and it still makes me feel the same way, the same way. I'm still that kid in ninth grade, like, Wow, listen to this. I can't thank you enough. We can't thank you enough, man, guys for helping us. Man, we really appreciate it. Love you guys to showing us. Man, we really appreciate it. Man.
That's really do.
As opening the doors Dot and allow us to sit here and tell some stories.
Man.
And you know it encourages us to hear stories from people like like yourself, artists doing your own thing out there. Man, it's encouraging. So we appreciate you. Really do appreciate you, guys, man. And uh, We're gonna continue to watch segments and everything you're doing.
Man.
I get something good out of every time I look at the shows. Man, it's y'all doing your thing.
Man, words I control sometimes.
Don't say you can't cuss. It says you can't curse. The big difference.
There's a difference. Come on, we're getting technical now, spoken from the man himself. More comments.
Enough cos I like it?
Yeah, Please to your money. And this is the R and B Money Podcast, the authority on all things R and B and this has been a life changing pod and one of the best days of my life. Y'all make some noise for Mitchell Jones, Callsey.
Good to be here.
R and B Money.
R and B Money is a production of the Black Effect Podcast Network. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Don't forget to subscribe to and Radar Show and you can connect with us on social media at Jay Valentine and at the Real Tank. For the extended episode, subscribe to YouTube dot com or slash R and B Money
