R&B MoneyThis week on The R&B Money Podcast, Tank and J Valentine sit down with massively influential R&B icon Johnny Gill for a wide-ranging, in-depth conversation about his decades-spanning music career. From getting his start singing gospel in DC-area church groups as a talented kid to landing a record deal and charting his first single while still a teenager, Johnny takes us through the origins of his meteoric rise in the industry.
He shares behind-the-scenes stories from his time dating a young Stacy Lattisaw, becoming an integral member of New Edition after Bobby Brown's departure, and scoring smash solo hits like "Rub You the Right Way" and "My, My, My." Johnny opens up about his experiences in the R&B supergroup LSG alongside Gerald Levert and Keith Sweat, naming artists like Jeffrey Osborne, Luther Vandross and Donny Hathaway as inspirations and friends who helped shape his approach to singing and storytelling.
While he's lived an extraordinary life in the spotlight, Johnny explains his philosophy of keeping his personal relationships private from the public, protecting his inner circle and maintaining balance. Now, over 40 years into his iconic career, the universally-admired vocalist joins the show to trace his evolution from gospel prodigy to a veritable living legend who helped define generations of R&B music. Enjoy an in-depth look at Johnny's incredible journey, Now on The R&B Money Podcast.
Extended Episodes on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/RnBMoneyPodcast
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Tank: @therealtank
J Valentine: @JValentine
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R and B Money. We are.
Thank take melchized.
We are the authority on all things R.
And B.
Ladies and gentlemen.
My name is Tank and this is the R V Money Podcast. The mother fucking authority things.
Already here today. He is here to day saying what they gotta do.
Go put on that.
What you read?
You don't you no red, you better go, get you on, get you want to go, get you.
Get you get real the right way.
Make some doctors with Julie.
Yeah, I got, I got Kennedy. Think for that. He gave me my name. You know, every artist got to have that one record that's just their signature, and it's like, can he.
Gave me my name?
I'm so glad he took that record back from the Whispers because remember yeah, he had given that record to the Whispers, and he said hold on. He was like, yeo, I think this might be better for Johnny. Yeah, that's how we ended up with. Matter of fact, the Whispers even recorded it and they said, I guess over what happened between them? I don't know for some money stuff, but I was like, whatever happened, thank you'.
All, because because was Gerl was er to be over your project.
Yeah, yeah, Jerold was the project.
Allah.
I made sure that record was bought.
I thank you so many.
It wasn't for you.
I don't know what my name would be, but it wouldn't be my mama, Johnny. First of all, you're you know, you're a legendary, brother. You are absolutely legendary. We are honored and blessed to have you here. I want to I want to say this and then and then then we'll get into it.
I just want to.
I want to give you love, and I want to salute you for how you handle yourself on tour and what you had to endure and what you had to go through and to power through that and to get on that stage and and be a living testimony and to testify the way you did. Brother, like unreal brother. And you know we still we still sit in your loving prayers.
Man.
You know.
So it's still a challenge every day. And I didn't think you know you. I think we all know as kids, you know, and just adults to as well. We know you lose a loved one, But your first thought as a kids, when you think about it, if something happened to my mom, I couldn't live I wouldn't be. And it's like, man, when that day came, I tell you, man, you don't know what kind of strength you have. You don't know what you really, honestly are going to do, because I couldn't tell you what I would have done in that moment. But I just had to just go let go of God and I had to lean and trust on him more than anything in anybody. Man, I tell you I'd never even watching my mom and her decline with her health. It's still, you know, the inevitable. But at the same time, I always tell everyone, because I know we all got to leave here, but when you see people that are leaving and you know they're going to leave, you still I always tell everyone you must try to stay in the moment, stay in the now, because if you get too far ahead trying to figure out when and how and when it's going to happen, what happens is you rob yourself of the now. So whatever that is that's going on, if they're still here, they're still You're still in the game, they're still in the fight, and you have to try to stay present, standing now.
And that's what I did.
I rode it all the way up to her last breath. But it was just tough, man. And I tell you, I don't know. It's like I'm waking up still every day. Pill. It's just the pillar is just drenched with tears. And I remember asking Tyler, Tyler Perry. I asked Tyler, I said, he said no. He said, you know what, he says, You're gonna be all right. I said, I don't know, man. He said, no, You're gonna be all right. He says, in nine years. I said, what do you mean in nine years? He said, took me nine years. He said, you got a long way. I said, my god. And I'm like, this is what I got to deal with. He's like, man, and it's just you know, that's it becomes more bearable, but it's just pain will always be there. I'm like, this is man. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. And I got a lot of motherfuckers I don't like, but I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. But you know, ultimately, it's just that I have on this shoulder that it's called the gratitude bag. And even through all the pain and through the heartaches, I still wake up every day and I make an effort to go in and reach into that gratitude bag and understand that at eighty one years of life and allowing me to be here for fifty seven years, that God allowed me to have my mom throughout my life. He didn't have to do it because their kids that have grown up without a mother or without a father, without both, and to have you know, her here and to have guided us and worked as hard as she did, and she got an opportunity to see her child carry that name in the family's name. And I never robbed and stole from anybody, even when I was out. We all, when you're growing up and you're in this business, you're having fun wilding out. But even in the back of my mind, I was still conscious of going, I don't want to embarrass my mom. That's a no no. So you know, it's been a blessing. So every day I still reach into their gratitude bag and think about how she could have been gone, and how we thought at one point she was gone, and she came roaring back and gave us nine more years. And I said, God has given us nine. If he gave her even nine more, it still probably wouldn't be enough, you know, so I'm just grateful. I'm grateful, and I know I got to continue to keep pushing through it. But I'll never forget going back to work. And the guys was saying, you don't have to come back, and I said, this is not about me. I said, my mother worked three jobs. We were on welfare. Lights would get cut off, water would get cut off. But yet my mother would allow she had to raise four boys, and she would not allow us to live in the projects. If you didn't know any better, you would have thought we were middle class because we never lived in with four boys, a single mom, a single lady taking care of four boys. That we lived in a decent neighborhood and nobody knew pretty much what our lives was like. And that was hard work and that was sacrifice. So I realized I knew what my mother would want me to do, and that is she wanted me, you know, to carry on. And so that sacrifice that I had to make that time, during that time was nothing compared to what she had to do to deal with with four boys. So I had to push myself through that process and try to get through it as the best that I could. But boy, my god, I tell you, I've been through some rough stuff in my life, but man, I don't think nothing's nothing compares to that one.
I'm making that decision to have to go.
I'm gonna stand out in front of these people and do what I know she wants me to do.
Well, we felt your brother, Yeah, I promise you that.
Yeah.
Yeah, I was inspiring.
Yeah, it was inspiring. That's why.
Listen, man, I'd rather believe that there's a god and die and find out that there is, and then the Gold.
Leave about it here and realize, oh he was for real.
She was planning telling the Gold oh man, rolling man here ship.
Yeah, so I ain't gotta mention.
Oh man, I my man. Now it's just a double man because we're supposed to have forty ECUs in the.
Mut we're talking about.
It happened.
So let's do this.
Let's go back to four boys, four boys being raised.
DC D C D this original trafolate.
Yeah about them.
Humble beginnings man, and and discovering that you are different.
Man. Let me tell you it's crazy. We we grew up my dad was a minister, so we grew up singing in church, and he started his church in DC and then with my mom and then separated. He moved to uh Phoenix City, Alabama, Columbus, Georgia, and then Phoenix City, Alabama. And it was crazy because we have to be in church two three times on Sundays, and we have to go to Bible study, and it was all this stuff. And my dad one day brought us all these instruments. And I was intrigued with the guitar, and I couldn't tell you at that time. I didn't know what it was while I was intrigued with guitar. But I picked the guitar up and I just started playing it. I never had to guitar lessons. I haven't done anything.
And I just started playing.
And and so my brother my one of my brothers had a bass, the other one had drums, and the other one had bongos. And it was funny because you know, as kids, we all we used to fight, you know, and but when my dad come in, everybody straightened up.
Dad was no joke.
He was no different than mister Joe Jackson in the way I mean when I say that I loved Joe and I knew Joe as well, I'm saying in the sense that he was a no nonsense guy. When dad came home, everybody was like, this, your room clean, you got to make up to bed Mitchell. So but my dad went. You know, the kids, they wouldn't let me play with their instruments. I used to play sick and when they go to school, they never understood how I knew how to play all everybody's instruments. I didn't know at the time.
I was intrigued. And that's what the word was intriguing.
I'm just looking at this up and I would pick up an instrument, I just start playing it.
I don't just would figure it out.
So so my dad made us form the group. You know, I was the youngest out of the crew, and they would kick my hands in front, make me singing because they used to beat my eyes. It was like, no, you get so I ended up doing being the lead singer and not realizing that. You know, at the end of the day I tell them the years looking back at it, and I'm like, how do.
You like me?
Now?
You want to do what? You know? What I'm saying.
Background ain't no bongos on this. So are you guys singing gospel?
We're singing gospel? Yeah, all over the Metropolitan Area, the d M D. It was, you know, as a matter of fact, I saw the case Yeah, Little said, yeah, y'all, you know we're gonna be on. You're gonna be on there with a little centric then right, it's like, yeah, bring them all, bring on, bring them all, y'all group.
Little John and the Wings of Faith.
So it was little John against a little shirt.
Somebody has to make a T shirt. Man, what a little a.
Little a little sack.
Yeah, yeah, Little John in the what and the Wings of Faith?
And listen and Casey gave it up to you he did.
Yes, oh, man, tell you it was you know, everybody you need somebody that especially I mean we are all artists, but you always need that somebody that just inspires you to push you or you know, okay when I go you know, yeah, and yeah it was like a little.
Said it looks said.
He but then he man, Yo, they used the rock.
Man, he's the rock.
And I enjoy the crazy thing about me as an artist, and I think for years it's been this way in the people that have this thing where it's like it's like, hey, I'm better than you or whenever will come, I'm willa stumb them back. I have that competitive thing in me, but I have this thing where I anybody can come on my stage and it's like I welcome it, and I'm like, it doesn't matter what your skill level is. Even if your skill level is, it feel is greater than mine. It never allowed me to have this insecurity thing where it's like you feel like, you know, like, oh.
Man, I think I'm better than him.
Oh man, I watched I ain't going after him, and it's like, I never It's never been a thought process for me. And I think it's just I enjoy the art of music. I enjoy every great gift and talent that God has given every man. And to me, it's like I welcome anybody and any time I mean ment.
Stevie used to sit. STEVEE would come over my house.
You know what, hold on stop that is sick of the ship already what I'm sick of this ship already. Okay, Steve, people come over my house.
Many Hey, let the legend tell.
See there you go, there you go.
Sometimes you know what, let just get something that's it and then just when you have to break.
Got back, you gotta bell.
I think that you should really come over and shut my bitch, and I would come with me. People were watching us going at it.
We do the dozen.
Steve and I for years would just go hard and so I would go at Gray. Yo. You know there's people in the room, right, he goes, Okay, let me ask you something. Yeah, uh will you open your mouth? Open my mouth there. Yeah, I'm wanna put something that you know that people that, oh, Steven get you yo. Steve goes and let me tell you that. And it gets quick, yo, man, he's quick.
That's the greatest of all times.
That's the greatest of all times.
Let me tell you the reason I love these stevee stories because as a kid growing up idolizing Stevie, people ask me all the time, what is your greatest you know, reward and being in this business. And it's not the awards that I've won, is none of those things. It's the fact that I met this guy when I was a kid and that call him my brother.
It's just.
To me the greatest reward one could get because I've always looked up to him and still even to this day. And me and him were sitting there and go for hours, going back and forth, running and ripping one day this I did a run, did last for about a half hour, and I was like, motherfucker, hold on, can't that's not legal being there. I'm talking about Steve. But play from eleven o'clock till six in the morning, he still sitting in there playing. We'll all be hanging out, just Eddie, myself and Nicole, all of us, and we.
Would just be in there.
I'm getting and looks at four o'clock in the morning, everybody comes.
Like this he's.
He's just he is just the epitome of music. Yeah, oh my god, this existence is just pure music.
That he is.
Got the biggest heart.
Man.
Let me tell you, this guy has been a true blessing to me in every way. And I listen, man, I love that guy to the core. I love him to the core. Yeah.
Okay, so little little Sedge, little John, y'all get in to it streets.
Absolutely.
So we're in the gospel circuit, right, Is that when the discovery happens for you or do you make the transition to R and B first?
No, this is the gospel circuit. The craziest thing is you're saying earlier about when did I discovered I singing the craziest thing. As a kid, I thought everybody could sing. I had no idea. I thought, because when you're a place where everybody exactly so.
I thought everybody could sing.
And man, we used to gather before this service, whichever show we was going to do, and I it was a joke to me, but I was it was fun, not a joke. More so than anything we were sitting there talking about. I was like watching many people mix shout. I didn't think nothing Besides I.
Was it was fun to go, Okay, I'm gonna wreck this, watch this, watch this. I mean, were gonna make i'ma make the whole.
I might have them and they're laying out rocking, and we would come out from singing the church in these churches and you see them falling out and stuff. I didn't realize til years later that that's not a joke and that's not something everybody can do, and that is an anointing in the gift. I had no idea.
Yeah, and what are you thirteen fourteen?
Yeah? Yeah, And they kept going, you see that little kid sound like a grown man. It still didn't register you had.
This grown voice at thirteen. Early you had to be able to get out there early.
Yeah, And I was. And I actually actually joined another group while I was still in the group with Little John in the Wings of Faith, a group in DC called the Prodigal Sons. They were very, very very popular there was it was originally it was Johnny Holmes and their Prodigal Sons and uh, then Bob Robinson took over when Johnny Holmes passed away, but they were terrorizing in uh in d C.
They was like.
Yeah, and so I ended up even you know, uh singing with them, uh and learning.
A lot from them.
This guy, they were grown men.
They were grown men. Bob Robinson, he was like the lead singer, and he was a guy that didn't have the greatest voice, but he just knew what to say when to see it, and he could in the middle of a song he could have this make the whole place just explode just from him talking.
He would just be man.
He'd be like man, didn't have the greatest voice, but he will kill you, he will destroy you. I was like man. So, you know, being around those kind of people really taught me a lot. And I didn't know I was taking it all in, but it was just a part of my journey and the part of I think ultimately where.
God's plan man. But uh, that's when I realized.
Years later, as I started getting older and I was watching how we were becoming, people were starting to fear us, and it was like it was funny to me at one point, and then I started realizing, maybe this is a little something different here that's going on that I'm doing, because yeah, I could get two lines out of a song, and it reached the point where church would just explode before I could even get And I think at that over a period of time, they started to recognize it was little John and you know, knowing what I did made them.
When we would perform, they was ready, you know.
But I started realizing that this is an annoying thing and this is not something to take lightly and to play with.
Did y'all make a record?
No, we never made a record. Never made a record even a case in the I think they made a record.
We have never made a record.
Wow.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So before y'all got to making any, you know, any recordings, you end up moving over to the secular side because you.
Got side early still a teenager.
Yeah, I went to school with Stacy Lottasa family and she we were in elementary together and we used to be in a group of.
This go back to glee elementary school.
Yeah, we were in the glee club and Stacey's place because Stacey started for me. Obviously, her place was like the you.
Know where all of the kids were gathered. We would all gathered there after school.
And I remember in the glee club when we were singing uh in kimberl Elementary. I remember one day it rained and she made we all went downstairs in her basement. And you know, I used to wear suits to school. Boy asked me why I would wear suits with empty briefcase?
You did?
Do it?
Just crazy? I'm like, wait, suited up with my bible.
Well, my brothers gave me. They gave me the nickname Revernight Red. Here come Revernight, my god brothers and they were terrorized us. They lived next door to us. It was three of them and then my three brothers. All of us we used to all row, but my god brothers.
They was man, wait wait, your brothers didn't wear suits to school. No, only you did.
Only me and my brother My brothers and my godbrothers.
They used to laugh when I would come there go he come revernight and but you know, it's just what I felt more comfortable.
You at stacey house with the suitor.
I would go after school still over there, and we'd be over there playing and it's stuff.
So one day it was raining and she.
Said, Okay, everybody's gotta go. It has to do something or y'all I'm gonna have to leave whoever's not doing something and see what having a talent show. And so I'm like, am I gonna do? I'm shoot. Only thing I know how to do is sing, and I didn't want to sing, but I was like, hell, I ain't getting messed.
What I could?
A call a few months later and it's from Stacey. We had a matter of fact, had just moved was moving back to Columbus, Georgia. My mom and dad was was gonna get back together, and we had packed up our things and was moving back to Columbus, Georgia. And I got a call when I got to Columbus, Georgia and it was from Stacey. She said, he my my mom and was talking to Henry All and the president of the label record label about you, and he wants.
To wants to hear your voice. We were coming.
We had just gotten back to to UH. We went to drove back to d C to pick up some more of our things. I made a demo tape with a twenty nine dollars tape recorder. You remember the press the Yeah, I didn't know nothing about no production and none of that stuff. I'd never even recorded, so I couldn't tell you how you know you're supposed to playing. I was singing with just raw on with the thing and UH on the tape recorder, and he called and UH. He asked me to sing for him and a couple of other people over the phone, and I did, and I ended up singing for a couple of more people and then a couple more people. He was like, he had the whole staff going, yeah, yeah, listen to this, listen this come on sing sing and singing again, and I was singing. I sung a Shining Star from the Manhattan and he said, yeah, we're gonna bring you out to New York.
You know who we get with the d C.
And we never went back to Columbus, Georgia. I went up to New York. They flew me up to New York. I kid by myself, really, my mom didn't want to. I was fourteen because I started recording at fifteen and the first record came out at sixteen. But I didn't know, and I'd never been on an airplane and all that stuff, so it was all new. And my mom, man, she was not feeling it, but she understood. It was like, this is an opportunity. And you know, I didn't realize until about ten years ago, maybe about eight years ago. My brother was telling me. He said, you know, I used to hear Mom in the bathroom praying and crying at the same time. And I was like what. She was like, yeah, she just it tore her up, even when you moved and went to LA and she was just asking God to protect her. And he said Mom would be in there like two three o'clock in the morning. I would hear praying and crying.
And I was like, wow, Wow, it's real. Yeah, she lets you, she lets you go live your dream as a baby.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But they assured her. The guy that you guys might have heard of, and I'm not sure, but he was the man running New York Bill Underwood.
Absolutely I know that is yeh yeah.
And he was like, my you know, it's like my father. He's like a brother father everything. But he you know, yeah, he looked out and took care of me. But I tell you it was a trip, man, because I realized that that was a blessing because I got to learn the business and understand it early, early, early on. Yeah, and some of the mistakes some of the other guys made, I didn't make. I've been in the business forty years. I've seen a lot of things. A lot of things have happened to me, just like anybody else in the business. But I've never I don't have one story where I can tell you I went to work and somebody can tell you. You know, I've heard a million stories about going to work and going to stage. Man, I would and perform, and then I wouldn't give him my money.
Man, I we had to pull a gun on it.
I heard a billion stories.
If somebody getting yanked for their money at some point, never happened. Bill taught me from day one that I'm not the risk taker. The promoters risk are the risk takers, and if they can't provide half up front, then don't go.
We're not going. Don't go.
And that started early, early, early, early, early on in my career, and I've seen some things that made some mistakes in make doing business deals, but not getting paid for going to work has never been one. Never been one. And thanks to him, he did thirty three years and he's back out and that's.
Yeah, thirty three.
He was, Yeah, you know you gonna go into it.
You ain't gotta go into it.
Yeah, So let me tell you what happened when I got the first check though, Yeah, here we go, here we go, here we go. Main man, trying to tell y'all can tell me nothing.
How much was the chip?
I member about two thousand dollars?
I think it was. I bought me like I bought me a gold watch, a nugget watch, a nugget ring, and a nugget bracelet.
Who you talking like, nigga?
No, yeah, here's the kicker.
Here's the kicker.
On top of it.
I went to the dealership and they gave me my cressitor and said, no, no, you can pay it. You start making payments. Later, I signed off the paper they did the deal went with me outside.
Of He was like, look at this kid. I was like, hey man, I mean shoot, like, so.
You got a new whip, a nugget man, nugget kid, nugging kid with two thousands thousand.
I was making making I said, make it enough.
I kept saying, I can get used to this. Sure.
Yeah.
I'm like, man, I'm like, man, y'all can tell me nothing, And I'm like.
What we're doing next? And you have a Jerry curl?
Oh man, it was leaking. It was oh man, it was leaking. But I was trying to be Michael. I was like, man, so that's what you like and huh yeah, trying to keep my curl down. Mike's minds would be but I was like, that's what y'all like, and y'all digging hunh man. I had my curl, and man, but I tell you the first night I got my the night that I was going, the day before I was going to get the curl. I was so excited because I'm thinking, you know, the girl's like curly heads, you know, yeah.
Curl So you know I had a conversation with me yeah yeah, yeah yeah, because you don't understand they came out the woe.
So I'm sitting the night before, I'm so excited.
Man.
I was so excited, thinking, Mom, I'm gonna have cruelty yeah, you can't tell me. Then do the rollers put the roller joints in, and then they got you got to set under the joint. I mean it was about a four or five hour process to old me. Oh my god, Rember when I came out there with curls and it was like, oh, don't talk to me, man, don't talk to me. Shoot man, I was like I was on cloud night.
I'm like.
I was tempting.
Approach him.
I have to look out and tell him.
I'm just like, oh, y'all see the New Edition movie. They did show that. They did not show this Johnny approach.
Myproach is like, hey, baby, I'm a mode.
Tell her what she got on you.
Man, man, listen, I have some fun times.
How do you How do you handle whoever came to you?
You could tell us wholly coming to you and saying, hey, I know you a solo artist. I know you're doing your thing. We're trying to figure this thing out. You as as you know your solo thing, you got this grown man voice. I'm about to put you in this group.
Michael Bibbs, my little brother. Let me tell you that guy. I can't even put into words, how sharp Michael has always been. And the craziest thing is, out of our whole group, Michael was was the one that came up with the idea because originally Ralph was gonna leave, and so Mike's first thought was ship, how are we gonna eat? And so his thought was not his idea wasn't it was gonna be all of us. They were just thinking, Okay, if Ralph gonna go off, because Ralph was working on this solo thing and he's gonna probably he's probably not gonna come back, especially he's the lead singer, he's the most popular, he's gonna probably be successful. He probably he's not gonna probably.
Come and they've already watched Bobby right.
Yeah, he was like, shoot, so what we're gonna do. Mike was a huge fan too, and that half Crazy was the song that caught his attention. And so when we was at the Whispers concert in La that's when we ran into each other.
But before record, before you stole the Whispers record, I mean they was allowing you in the concerts before you stole the record.
They don't see you on the street.
Who knew the.
Twins will jump in and did that?
I said, no way, man, oh, manize man ship, but yeah he did. We met at the wissessconcert. That's crazy because I think about that, and he said, he let me ask you a question. He said, did you do you feel like you've gotten your just do as a solo artist? And I'll never forget just being stupid and funny. I reached my hand in my pocket and I pulled out.
N I was like nope.
He said, hey, yo, man, what you doing tomorrow? Said?
Nothing? What's going on?
He says, Yo, I want to see if you down to meet up for lunch. And I was like okay, But it's never dawn on me that it's like he's calling me to talk about some business stuff. I'm just thinking because we cross path from you know, doing concerts and stuff here and there, and I would go and say to hi and hang out with him, and so it never mean that that's what he was just trying to do. And so we met up, had lunch with a couple of guys. Then they wanted to come they wanted to meet up again, and I'm sitting there going they want to meet up for again? And so that second time we met up, they was talking about they want to.
Go back to.
A five member group at some point, because the choreography was the thing they gave me was the choreography is a lot more impacted.
It's more effective with five.
So I'm thinking okay, And but I kept thinking, I know he's not getting really asking me about joining this group. I was like, I got two left feet. What am I gonna do at this point?
You have not danced, not dance as an artist.
Nothing about dancing. I'm like, shoot, I'm a coroner. I'm a kroner, another teacher. Well have you seen them?
Okay, okay, so now they so.
So yeah, so you know, we uh, we went over. They talked to me about the whole thing, about this idea that they had about me coming and being a part of the group. And then I sat there and I was like wow. And then we went from the hotel to m c A over to Joe Busby's office.
They had this all planned out. Oh yeah, they had it laid out.
And we walked into Gerald's office and Gerald says, uh, new addition, and Johnny gill.
And was was was Ralph with you with us?
And and h and Mike said, nah, it's a new addition. And Gerrold looking at his like, says ah, and Mike's was Mike, That's what Mike said me and I knew his member And Gerrold looked he was like a deer hair like. He looked for a minute and he said, you know what I was thinking about that too.
That was.
I was thinking that ya are.
You still signed to was it Atlantic?
I was still signed. I was signed to uh m c A.
Yeah.
And so when Gerl left from m c A over to Motown, he called Jimmy tur and said, hey man, I'm trying to find uh an artist to sign a male artist. Uh. You know, I was thinking, you know, like how Hugh's gonna listen and Jimmy and Terror was like I would hear it. It was he said, yeah, one Johnny and once again I was just thinking about that, but no, Terry and them said hey man, you got one, and that guy's gonna be around for a long time. Blah blah blah, and it said. You know, they agreed to do half the album. But that's when Clarence came in. They a, we do half the album and and uh and and Kenny and La agreed to do that half. That was the first time they actually work together.
But this is this is before afternoon, after this after Okay, so we skipped yeah, okay, okay, it's so much forty years.
No, no, no, I'm great at the times. I'm great at the times.
Yeah. So so we went in there and we did that and uh yeah, and then we went, uh started making plans to go back because they had started working with Jimmy and Terry in Minneapolis, and I didn't know at the time they had already was had already Ralph had started with them. Ralph hadn't started when I went back with them to Minneapolis. They even start their whole recording process. Is when we all met up, and I remember Ralph going with the is this like he's looking around he's still yeah, well he I think he sent something that because he's looking around and it's quiet and it's like everybody's just kind of solemn. And then they said, Jimmy Terry says, all right, guys, we're gonna have a meeting. Let's have a meeting. They went into came into it. We went into their their room in their little thing where they uh the office, and man, we sat at that table and all hell broke loose, All hell broke loose, and that's when I found out that he wasn't He didn't even know, nor was he down with it with adding another member. He's like, fuck that, I hone and share my money and split starts, split my money again, but with five of us. So it was all the stuff that was going. I mean, they was getting there, screaming, yelling, and I'm sitting there looking. I'm looking.
I'm looking like what did I just walk into?
And did you know Ralph at this time? I know him from past? Yeah?
Yeah, And so I'm just sitting there thinking, I'm like, what the hell I just walk into? So it was all like, man was it was crazy. So I remember Terry looked at me and he said, you know, oh he did. Jimmy one mom said you know, well, you know you're not going to be uh you know, Ralph is the lead singer and you're not going to be doing any leads on the album. And I looked at him, I said okay, I said whatever. You know, I'm here for whatever you guys need me to do. And never bothered me. I never thought twice about I'm coming in and I need to be the lead singer.
I need to be I don't know. I envy people because sometimes you do need.
To have that.
Assertive attitude insert yourself into it.
And maybe you don't though, because because when you got the good you miss out on an opportunity.
To join a super group.
Well yeah, because if anyone, if anyone else that walks into that, yeah, they're like, what you mean, I'm a solo I got a solo deal, I got my record.
This you you walked in and made yourself just useful whatever you guys need.
And that's what Saidry said when they saw that reaction. And I didn't do it by nothing intentional. I'm just it was like whatever that is.
But it also probably disarmed the conflict because again, Ralph is singer, edition, Ralph is Ralph, so it's still like, you know, it's still for him. It's a pecking order thing, and for you to just be like, I'm here for you, certain brother, Yeah, it's your world.
And my level of security, I think in the back of my mind was probably I still even though I joined them, I still had to had obligations to to uh motown and a total deal that I have to record. And they were saying, Gerald is saying, we're gonna have to do that.
We'll do that right after the new edition.
Never and if you ever notice, if you look in all those early pictures, you'll see me, I'm always in the back, like I never. They used to be fighting for the position of who's gonna be in front of, trying to be in front of. They used to be fighting for parts sometimes for the songs and songs, and I was just sitting there. I'm like sitting there thinking, I'm like, okay, just whatever it needs to be done, And whenever it was time to take pictures, I'd go and get in my place in the back.
Yeah, And you felt like it was easy. It was easy work for you. Ye used to having to sing the whole song yourself.
Yeah.
I mean the only thing I can't.
Tell you this to a lot of those songs that we were doing, uh, I would do pretty much like the ad lib stuff, or do most of the stuff, and then they come in and then somebody bringing somebody to do follow what I did. So I was like, I guess I'm the demo singer to h Yes, But I tell you when I did get pissed though, they all those great songs like can't You Stand and rain some of the other songs, you know, my kind of girls. And they was giving us these these these parts to do, and I kept listening to some of the songs.
I was like, man, I like that song.
I won't sing that. I like sing that. I love singing that, and I'll never forget. I kept thinking when they gave me this song boys to men, I said, this is some political bullshit. I said, oh, they just give me this piece of ship just to throw me a bone. Now at this point, all these great songs that I could have just a song one and just been you know, that's how I'm thinking about that.
That's how I thought about it.
And so I said, Okay, so they're just throwing me a bone, and they just gonna throw me this song. I throw me this track that's out all these other great songs, cause I just didn't think it was out all the other records that they recorded.
You know that that wasn't the one.
Yeah, So I said, oh, so you want to fuck with me now?
Huh.
That's what took when the light went off in my head. I said, oh, so your niggas are trying to fuck with me. Huh, gonna give me this week ass ship, I said, Okay, I walked in that booth, I said, made up my mind. So my fuck this sung up.
I remember, I.
Remember singing the first couple of lines and before you know it, before I got through the end and I started with the ad libs. It was like, I don't know if you guys ever seen Scooby Doo and they'd be having the one stand over another one that the other name.
They all looking, they was all sold.
The whole room was filled with everybody in there, and uh, by the time I finished the song, it's real quiet, and they're like and I just kept thinking, listen, I've been doing my part. I've been in here doing whatever you guys need me to do. Don't come in here fucking with me with just bullshit. And I was like, if that's the case, I'm gonna just show you something. I don't give a fuck what you put in front of me. I said, I'm gonna fuck this song up.
That was just my attitude.
Well, let me say something. You sang that mother and that is you sang the title cut motherfucker.
But I was singing it mad, like they can't find me something better.
I couldn't find you nothing better. Than the title fucking cut that land to one of the.
Come on, man, man, He's like, who knew?
The more the lessons is always give your best. You never know what happened, know man, You just never known.
When you get a new addition, is the addict? Okay? Now, because you got to get a new audition?
Check?
Is that heavier than your solo?
Check? Yeah?
Because they know that's Motito thousand.
Big time.
And it was funny because during that time we was getting ready for the Heartback Tour and they were having had had issues prior to with the I R S. So it was like a little bit unbounced because I was the only one came and cleaned. So yeah, you know, I came in and you.
Know, sure, I'm good. Y'all all right, everybody, okay.
Y'all doing?
Yeah?
Yeah, you got that? Uh the Z twenty eight, Well, what that joint is?
Y'all?
Get a loaded this one and that five hundred.
Five five hundred s L I want that to call?
Oh man, I thought. I was like, man, you couldn't tell me nothing.
I was like, I dodn't made it, baby, you had Yeah, So when you came in the group, if I'm not asking too much?
Are you a solid fifth? You're getting a fifth of everything when.
You first come Yeah, yeah, from the from the jump, from the jump, everything that I started on with, working from the day that started working with the Masolute, that's yeah. Yeah, yeah.
It was never about it's all split fairly, all split fairly. That's how it was such because everybody's contributing. And it's the point if you're a team, if you're a group, that's what a group does.
There's really no I it's it's when you're dealing with a team.
So I love them, man, and so grateful.
We love y'all, We love y'all. The world definitely the world of R and B man. Yeah, yeah, they talk about that authority thing.
Yeah, it got for a ship, she got for us.
M h.
M hmm. It's trying to kill. We know you've heard a lot of R and B music, you're saying a lot of rnby music, But something has to be your favorite.
Top fun, your top five mm hmm, Top fun, your top.
Five on Mething.
Hor May song come on the ground. Yeah you got to know, you got so I know you know, and you.
Go and do nothing than that.
Top don't round?
Yeah, yeah, your time.
Five.
Yeah, come on, we'll clearly now you want.
You don't work your way up.
Mister Johnny Gill, mister Mama Ma himself, your top five R and B singers.
Stevie one, but there that's just my god. Uh Luther two, yeah, Uh Teddy three. Yeah. People are gonna hate me for this one, but I got it. I gotta give Kills his problem. You gotta give the R and B.
Yeah, yeah, R and B.
And I'm not just saying that because it's in here. But you don't work your way up in there that boy.
Come on, come on that there book.
You don't walk the way up in there, now, come on now. And I left it on another little one. You wrote this song called My Cry.
Remember that.
I was going through it with uh me and Ira at that time, and we was going at it button heads and going toe to toe. They had nothing to do with the song, but me and her was going at it, of course, and we ended.
Up coming full circle. There come bunt up homies.
Well you know, how were you with labels and be Bunton having creative differences and button hid We was having some other but and I remember we kept sitting there going shooting. I kept going, what are we gonna do? Can, how are we gonna do this? And she was like, you're gonna do this?
So I was like, how you.
Gonna make me do what?
So?
What's going at it?
But I was I'll never forget that song. And I still have that one joint, that joint in my uh in my playlist nowhere.
Yes, yes, yes, this guy man right, brother, this special man. And that's why I said that. Being from DC, listen, it just adds to it. But your gift and talented this what it is. And dude, listen, I don't still over here and act like we're forgetting about you.
You're trying to sneak out.
You're trying to sneak out before then, I don't want to have to blow up the spot to tell everybody. You know, I've been knowing that little like this. Come on, come on, now, come on, they tangled.
What you made I know is I shouted this man out on soul Train. Wow.
When they asked me and Bob and my brother Ronnie, who our favorite singers work the same same type of thing, and like, who you know inspired us?
I'm ten years old, I'm like Johnny Kill. Yes, yes, yes, man, one of my favorites.
And it's so funny because one day I was watching Jeffrey Osbourne and he was doing, uh, this television show and that was in eighty three, my first single come out, and I remember, uh, I forgot the guy's name that Shirley was doing, and they asked him who was like one of the upcoming, up and coming artists, and I remember Jeffrey said, there's this kid named Johnny Gil. You got to understand what it felt like not knowing Jeffrey Osbourne. Fan of it is sitting at home and you're watching the nerve ripping show and he shout you out and he shout me out, and I was in shock, and I'm just sitting there and I'm like, Wow, it's Jeffrey Osborne. And then shortly after what we met and then Brothers.
Sus Guy, Oh, one of our favorite episodes.
That's my dude for life.
And I tell you he has been a part of my life since I was a kid, sixteen seventeen years of age.
Yeah, all right, Johnny, your top five, I gotta put oh my top Oh my god, Jesus Christ, I'd have to say as oh my God, that the.
House is not a home is where I think I first realized and I discovered what the feeling of love was because I was dating States at the time, and I'll never forget when that record came on. Oh man, you know, my heart started being fast, things started acting up and started rising, and I say, this is something.
Different here, this is it.
This is it.
He said.
When I climb the stairs in turn the key, he.
Oh, please be there.
Still in love.
We me and I was like.
Yeah, and the.
Say it again, no special sauce.
Oh my god.
Yeah, man, okay, that's that's two and Teddy I have to go with.
No.
Let's go Jeffrey. You you're just the sweetest beaches and cream.
That's not obscure.
I told Jeffrey, and he made me a promise that if I ever get married, he's got to do that one at the Wind. Got to do that one at the Wind.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. But he had a million of them to it. It's like, man, and of course, Donny Hathaway man a song for you. I just can't get around. You just can't get around. And I remember someone telling me when I was a kid that kept going, you know, you sound like a little and that said, oh this guy name you've heard this guy named Donny Hathaway. I was like no, And I remember sitting there listening to a song for you. And then I sat there and listened and I'm going, whoa, something hit me where I was just like, man, he who the heck is this guy? But you could hear this the conviction in his in his phrasing, in his just in his the notes. And it was just like I was like, man, and that's how I got turned onto a to Donnie Hathaway.
I feel the same way about his daughter too, Oh.
Lady, yes, oh my god. But it seemed like over year she just really just she's just a different kind of instrument.
Yes, the key is an instrument.
Instrument, man, she's she's calculated, methodical, yes, diabolicle, yes, foolishness and.
You ain't hearing a flat or sharp she's.
She just like she can do.
Her was amazing. Oh my god.
Yeah, she got her dad and.
More, yea, yeah, one more, one more.
You know, I know it looks like I might be stuck on myself to say this, but go ahead. That can you stand the rain I look at sometime there by I've been looking and listening to that.
Don't to listen to yourself.
Imagine being able to sing king you stand the rain every night and it's yours.
I'll tell you what I did. I tell you a little secret about my mind. I did, and I had I was nominated, No, I had won the Male Vocalists of the Year as the Soul Train. And it was this girl I won't say because she's you know, actress popular, you an actresses? Yeah, yeah, I try to keep the industry, you know, keep it. I got to do get around. So so I was like, okay, this girl giving me a real challenge. And so she went with me to the awards and when we got back, I had uh uh, my boy to put the champagne on ice. I've never I never before. My mama had never ever sat and sang to a girl to figure out if I had a better get me in quicker. Never And I remember we got came back from the awards, and I remember going back, sitting down at the piano and I popped, popped the champagne.
And my mama wasn't released yet.
Oh he's giving her the unreleased too, okay.
And I was sitting there playing my mind at the piano, and so we went from the piano to the floor, from the floor to the bedroom. And I said, God, damn, what would I been doing all the time? I said, hot money didn't tell what the hellened?
I forgot that you didn't have Babyface records to see.
Maybe record.
You know what happens?
And it went down.
I was like, damn, okay, I never I never wanted to use my power. If I always thought it was unfair, I like that ain't right. If I just started singing as well, yeah, I thought that too bad? Are we?
You're gonna make your vultron you're super R and B artists. We want to know who you're going to get the vocal from. Who you're going to get the performance style, the styling and the heart of the artists. Right, let's build your artists. Who are you getting the vocal from? For your super R and B artists?
One vocal lose the greatest storyteller that there is when it comes down to painting telling a story.
They just don't.
He didn't even move on stage. I don't know. I don't know if he walked five feet, if he didn't have to.
You just sit there and you're just like, yeah, man, he could paint and disrespectful, all the jumping around and shure taking off.
I did.
Luther.
Definitely who you're getting the performance style from performance style? Surprisingly, I must say the young, uh, cocky, wild, crazy Bobby Brown. That guy.
Let me tell you something, minuce to society man, Bobby.
When Bob was rockman, let me tell you something. You'd been sitting there looking going this is got rubbers in his leg? What the hell?
And that listen Bob was trying to give y'all work on that heartak.
Yeah, were you thinking about that as you're rehearsing and you're about to be this new member, Like.
I'm replacing Bobby Brown to.
A certain degree, even though he had already been out, you know, like I never thought because the way they brought it to me was like you're gonna be you know, we want to go back to the five member group up.
So it never really dawn on me until even the blow up with Ralph when we were there in Minneapolis and you realize, I'm like, what the hell I'm just walk into Bobby told me. And it was so funny because when we all got together during the Heartbreak tour after the tour. I went out on my own, and I'll never forget Bob came out with me. Bob used to come to LA when he wasn't living in La. He used to stay with me, and everybody used to talk about me and him, uh beefing and battling with each other, and he'd be in the crib and he would as a matter of fact. But Bob told me himself. He was like I remember him telling me. He was like, man, when you first got in the group, dude, I did not like you.
I was so jealous.
And then he was like, when you open your mouth, I was like, God damn like man. And he was like from that point that was what took him where. He was like that. But he said he told me himself, and it was so funny because I was out on tour and he came out with me for a while. And I remember one day we got on the bus on my bus and he was just like, man, he says, I endo you And I said what why? And I remember him saying, because I don't know, like I know if I'll be able to dance for the rest of my life like this. He's like, but nigga, you'll be able to sing like this for the rest of your life.
Mm hmm.
It never dawned on me.
I never even thought about, you know, and I'm looking and going think you Bobby.
Yeah. And at the time he got the biggest he's yeah, he was like, you know, biggest records in the world.
Yeah, yeah, it's crazy, but yeah, that he was to me, you know, besides.
M J the performer, just you know, Bobby performance, that young wild and Bobby, who are you going to get the.
Styling with the artist with the drip, with the.
Drip come on, ever night, come on, the styling is probably gonna have to come from. Yeah. I might think this is weird, but I'm gonna have to say, Prince, I wish I was the little guy.
The way he's doing this is the guy Prince just.
This stuff because I still to say, like bright cousin, but I don't I'm scared to try anything there's of color.
And the way he would just rock his with you know, you just be like, yo, if I was that little.
Man, if I said if I was woman, if I was that little, if I was that little I'll get that little mingam number of money.
He would have pulled off on you on his motorcycle.
I don't know if y'all were ready for the know you want, don't. I don't think y'all were ready. Y'all had no idea, no.
Way, no way. They knew that they had no idea. I didn't know that this is what okay, the passion of the artist, the heart.
Of the artist, the passion would probably be Donnie half Away. I don't think I've never seen anyone every note you hold on too, because you know, often said when I found out what he went through and how you know the challenges that he had, I.
Said that if.
Someone was to offer me that voice, but I would have to go through that journey that he went through. As much as I love him, I just I just been an average show talking about paper or plastic. I just can when you listen to the passion, the pain, everything in his voice, it's like it just stopped in your track. And every time I hear I don't cay which song is saying you go, man, I wonder where he was at, what was going on in like what was he going through? Like it's like you hear it, and so I would say passion. I don't think it gets no no stronger than no better than that.
Yeah, I love that, all right.
Yeah.
We ain't gonna let your body is just yet them. Yeah yeah, because you didn't.
Say some names.
What you got for him? I ain't saying no niggs. I ain't saying no names. I ain't saying no names. I ain't saying no niggas. What you did you don't say she I ain't saying no name.
This segment right here, card, I ain't saying no names. Will you tell us a story funny or fucked up? Are funny and fucked up? In the Travels of Johnny Gill.
Little John the first Little John, Little John that was great edition, back to solo Johnny.
Ls g and then come on man, and then back to the back to the don't forget back to auditions, and we didn't record, but there was.
Open for singers, open for y'all.
Man, you didn't been in twelve quick man, I'm open for a few more if you need a group member.
So so hm hmm.
We need to know in the time, the Times, they.
Didn't have no Instagrams and had no Twitters, no ex no tiki.
Tell us a.
Story from them times, man, Just don't say no name.
I can't say no names.
Please, man, oh my god, you can tell us.
Who he was. Well, I can recall this young lady once again.
She was an actress.
Yeah, I don't asked me how I listen man.
Big movie, small movies.
Uh yeah, she's been late night movies. She's been in some big movies. Matter of fact, you know, I just liked working women.
You know, they had a job, and I knew, you know, I don't know, they bought to the table and they got somewhere to go, and they have somewhere to go, something to do.
But I remember her. She would show up everywhere.
When we was on tour. She would just show up, show up, show up. And then I started dating this other girl and I had her over at the house and I'm sending her off to go to the airport. And the other girl I was dating comes over and she's in the house hanging out, chilling, and I'm thinking this other girl's gone. She turns around, makes you turn, comes back, knocks on the door, and uh, I'm like, uh, what you need?
What you need?
I was a little young. I couldn't think it's fair.
What you need, what you need? That's a my god.
I thought she was gone.
I'm act like I'm looking out the window going home.
Nowhere.
So she said, I know you you got somebody in there.
And I'm like, oh, what you're talking about?
And so.
I'm like, she knows whatever. I said that listen, it's my friend.
She gotta come in.
She claims she left something here.
So I told him.
She got to the door.
Listen, you don't shot no shit, you understand.
They walks, He looks, she goes and who are you?
She goes, who are you?
She goes, well, who are you?
She goes, are you?
I told you no, We're not gonna start.
No. I told her. I said, y'all both my friends.
Y'are both my friends.
It's so oh man. I got her coat, got her coat, and she said she was she was done. She was through with me until I looked around at the next city.
Here she comes and standing there at my room door and crying.
I'm like, damn, I thought you got rid of me.
I thought you got rid of me. Did you let her in the room?
I realized, oh yeah, that's when I realized I'm a true Hey. I didn't realize I had that kind of the one time I ever got busted. And that was the first and the only time. First and only, man, you didn't say nothing. I just told her, I said, listen.
We have no ship.
Man.
You're my friend and you're my friend.
She technically didn't.
She didn't. She just do no ship. She came when she bounced out, she.
Said she was done with me.
That's okay.
She wasn't really done. She wasn't.
She couldn't be done with that.
She couldn't done. She couldn't be done with that.
You left that form my why why?
Why?
Why?
Why?
Why?
Why?
Oh my god, I don't think I don't think you understand. I think you understand. This is great, bro, Bro, you do so awesome. Man, you so awesome.
Man.
I've known you for many years. Man, I've always known you're a goofball. But you know, it's it's awesome for the world to see, and it's awesome to see you in in in good spirits man, And they're still moving and pushing on, continuing on the legacy of your mom, continuing on the legacy that that you've built, that continues to inspire us and and that will continue to inspire generations to come.
Brother.
I hope you know that well, can I just say I'm proud of both of you guys man taking the bull by the horns.
I have it because R and B.
When you think about it, people keep having myth about R and B being dead. But it's not that it hasn't gone anywhere. It's still here. It still exists, and it's just a matter of like what you guys have done to create a platform to remind people and give people somewhere to go to come to see and understand that it still lives. It's not gone anywhere. So it's the young. You guys have been doing an incredible job. I've watched from the from the from from Jeffrey Osborn to KC to you know, Bobby and the Levin Yeah brothers and everybody, man, and I just that what you guys are doing with given everybody, from the young to the old, just everybody an opportunity to be able to tell a story and have people to understand who they are and where they come from, because you don't know where you're going unless you know where you come from. And you guys spread it out to the allow just people come in. You guys are doing an amazing job and I can't tell you how proud I am of both of you guys.
Man, Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.
And this is the R and B Money podcast, the authority on all things your nigga would say, it wasn't R n B.
Yeah, And this has been.
The edition.
John himself.
R and B Money.
R and B Money is a production of the Black Effect Podcast Network. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favows. Don't forget to subscribe to and rate our show, and you can connect with us on social media at Jay Valentine and at the Real Tank. For the extended episode, subscribe to YouTube dot com or slash R and B Money
