Question. Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio. Shall we start? Let's do it. Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another episode of Course Love Supreme. I'm your host of Quesse Love Jenkins. Uh, you got the Supreme family, fresh off of our fifth anniversary, fresh from the uh mac Galloh, what's up? I'm pay Bill. I'm just saying I was just took off my outfit from met Galla. Everything's good, it was good, it's fun. Where did you go? Wow? Yeah, yeah, I was. I was Kim's uh you know date was black a second. Can you imagine if that was the thin dude you work with muppets all day? Of course I can imagine that you could have just borrowed Inn the outfit. That's what's more American than than the Muppets. I will say I've had some great Halloween costumes care of the costume department at Sesame Street. I was I was gonna say, are you allowed to borrow like extra costumes if you return it. I'm not sure if a loudest correct word, but yes, I have procure procure that like a spare big bird offset. I have not snuck puppets offset that would give me like, you know, jail time. But I have stolen other people's costumes for sure. Yeah, we got we gotta reinterview one day. Bill. Hey, you know I am a book of open knowledge. What I'm a open book. That's fine, that's fine, That's that's fine with me. I'm ready to talk at any time. You tell me what talk, I'll go, sugar. Steve, have you have you found Have you found God? Yet? Not exactly, but I am working on the greatest audio book right now to tell Steve. Look, okay, I went overboard in the pandemic. I wrote two books and it's it's held. Steve is losing his hair right now because the book is like thirty chapters one hair. Oh wow. Yeah, I mean you know I didn't had nothing to do. I was doing Summer Soul in the day, be be born on the farm. At night, you start journaling, and somehow I got turned into a thirty chapter book or whatever. You should break that join up. You should break that up, John up into an audio book into thirty second snippets and put that shirt on Spotify and ringal numbers up. Yeah, you just got marketed. That. That's why we wish we paid Frante the big bucks that you see he's wearing his glasses today. Smart. I got my stringle bell glasses. He's smart, learning on my company all day right and with the with the special our burn. I think that's I don't know if it's my red light or your real family to me because as as family, I don't recognize I got my hair done until two months later. That is uniform or thank you, we are family. It is that shows you that we're real guys, because guys don't recognize. We don't notice. No we noticed if you cut it, like if you cut it, I don't notice ould you cut your hair? But a new style two months cool there saying this is what I just said. Before we get into it. I just wanted to also big up to l A because we got a big decision to make today. I know this is gonna come out later, but some newsom newsom crazy mess. I have faith also running for governor of California. See the list is long enough. Hey man, You know, um, look about our guest today. Without any doubt in my mind, I believe that our guest is the founding member of the first hip hop band, meaning a unit without a direct leader, you know, no, no disrespect to the James Brown Empire and whatnot. And even though technically Virginia's own Winston's They're They're a classic single, Amen brother, that interpretation of you know, Curtis Mayfield's uh, We're a Winner, which weird enough, they never got litigious one. But I don't want to open up any canon worms with that. Even though that's been sampled five thousand plus times, making that the most sampled single. I'll say that our guest today holds as leader of this band, holds the dubious honor of having the most sample catalog by a band um in music. And I'm not saying hip hop because that's that's limiting it. Like throughout music, pop artists have sampled cool and so yeah. And you know this name like Summer Madness has been used billions of times. Uh in t no title, people don't know the NT stands for no title name him jungle boogie, give it up, Hollywood Springing, Uh, Winter Sadness, sport with lightning rode jungle jazz. What was that? What was what was the whole happy jappie with oh little children, little children exactly like over I believe the precise numbers, eighteen hundred samples over songs that have either sold gazillion triple or or just been declared classic. But to me, what's more, probably more incredible about the legacy of cooln Gang, is probably their ability to check the forecast and adjust accordingly throughout the decades. Um be it like they're their their jazz soul instrumental heavy beginnings with those like the self titled record and the two live albums that came after it, Yeah Live at Pjas Sex Machine, the soul oriented stuff like Music and Message and Good Times um or their funk masterpiece Wild and Peaceful, Uh, Light of the World, Spirit of the Bookie. Those records probably one of the finest disco jazz. I'm sorry, here's a new word. I just figured out paid bild I was not a new word. I did not know what a portamantal was. The combination of they call it dazz music disco jazz anyway, um and in the Open Sesame record, and also their growth into adulthood with Celebrate and Ladies Night, and you know their pop success jo Yes in the Heart, Joanna's album as One Something Special and the Emergency Record were like one of their biggest selling albums UH to this day hashtag to this day. UH. This band continues to still operate and their sound is around forever, be it UH samples or seeing them a real deal live. They still make records and they continue to brighten our lives. And this is a long overdue, overdue episode of Ques Loves Yes Bason. Gentlemen, please welcome the namesake of one of the greatest bands in music, Robert Cool Bell Cool in the game how are you? How are you doing today? I'm going five request you know his story and when it comes to Cooling the gay, Well, you guys made me. You know, I'm I'm I'm just glad to be in in in great company. And you know, you guys literally have have have written the blueprint that you know, we we are still following. And you know, it's hard to do that. Like oftentimes when people look at the story of groups and bands that have been around since the sixties and the seventies, there's there's a point in the eighties in which you kind of have to make life decisions on do you go with the flow, do you fight it? Do you sabotage it? And you guys, probably I'll see that. Of course, the story of Jackson's this exemplary. But you know, you guys, along with the Pointer sisters, along with Lionel Richie, like the transition for making it to the seventies to the eighties, was it very hard? When that most people it and make it. Yeah, they take it for granted. Like a lot of those you know that we loved, they found they found some sort of uh, sustaining power via the power of sampling. But you know, there was a period in the eighties in which a lot of those bands didn't make it. You guys found a way to really adjust and the silence as we say, silence to the haters that might have had to stay because every record didn't sound like Jungle Booky whatnot. But I mean, I I personally love in hindsight, how you guys have done that. And you know, as a member of a black band that's almost going on in the third decade, I mean, it's it's exemplary. Thank you, Thank you very much on people. Exemplary. Um, you don't also want to know yesterday I got in the mail your I love your also your fay into the spirit speaking of the spirit of the Bookie the spirit world. Um, you have your own champagne called lay cool like I like, and I'm holding it even though right they can't see it at home. I'm showing you guys right now that you know Robert cool Bell has its own When did you When did you get to actually a mirror? But when when did you? When did you first start your kind of your foray into the world of a fine drink? Well, I mean what happened was I was on tour about three or four years now from Molda. He came up to me said, listen, you know we had wasn't fast and we had about twenty days seven sold out and we come in to do a tour. Of course, to listen, I'm doing a champagne. Uh what the late berry white and the berry white look alike and also one of the bigs at the time there was a very white lookalike touring Europe. Yeah, they had a look like you would do a supper club dates. Wow, okay, I wasn't ready for that one. He asked me. Uh he said, uh uh would you like the uh uh sell champagne on your tour and come up with your own champagne? I said, well, listen, I don't think that my fans we want to take a bottle of champagne. Uh after my show. They want t shirts and caps and stuff like that. So I said, listen, I wanted to get on the shelves. He says, oh, so yeah, I want you on the shelves. I talking about the tour promotem with this idea and concept with the leg who Champagne and uh up in the rims would they make down Perio Crystal, all the big boys up there. You know, we end up cutting the deal with the birth of family and we worked on his football a year and a half with the cool Champagne, and I wanted to have that surprise element like coming to America, Eddie Murphy, that the America And that's how I got solid with that several years ago. Last year, uh, the one the most successful, but we got a hippop pandemic and everything else. So but that's kind of how it happened. I'm feeling that, I'm feeling that you know that that's that's that's a hard world to break into. So you know, I'm glad that you found a way to get into it, because you know, it's it's uh, this looks is a classic package here. I'm definitely seeing you about uh on pay Bill. I always won the yeah, the fact that how does country board from yak Town, Ohio break into the cocktail? How do your how did you get you know something? I gotta say that on on your on the official Cooling the Gang Instagram page, those those little um animated vignettes that you guys were doing and telling the history of the group. It's probably one of the best surprises I've ever seen, because I mean, I've heard the story of the group, but to visually see that, it's it's a wonder that you guys even made it two even form a band like not even to get to this point where you are as as as legacy, but just what you guys have to go through just too form a band for for our listeners that have not heard or seen. First of all, I recommend that you guys follow cool In the Gang and look for these like minute long bits or there, oh and so on YouTube is well. One I want to know, are you guys want to continue that series to tell the story of the band that in that manner because I love it, But can you tell us basically your beginnings from where you were born to to what brought you to Jersey to even form the in yeah we um answer, yeah, we want to continue that. Uh we stopped uh where where you see right now? Of course I lost my brother, but a lot of stuff shelf and also you know, and then uh we lost d T. I was you know, another part of it. But let me go back on yasun Ohio. We started off as the the Jazzy Acts. The name was changed to the soul Town Band. It was the organization in Gersey City was trying to be like Motown and we became the band. So we would have to learn all these Motown hits and records and we had about fifteen people on the show and we had to learn all these songs. So we got out of there from the Soul Down Band and we came up with Cooling the Flames. Now, our first manager father was working with James Bound and uh he said, listen, you can't go with coolness plays because you have James Bound in the famous Flames. What year was this? That was back in nineteen sixty three? Okay roughly no, no, no, no, even no, I have been nothing sixty five but nothing we saw sixty four. Uh So that's when you said when you can't use the flames, because we said, well, we don't want to have any problems with the Godfather, so why don't we just call ourselves Cooling the Gang. The music was a mixture of the jazz and the R and B when we were the Soultown Band, and that's when we found Cooling the Gang and we came out with our first record in July third, nine nine. Okay, one of the most interesting um elements in telling that story, and I'm sure that a lot of our listeners, especially the younger ones, might not be familiar with could you just talk about speaking of your names like the gang, Um, could you just briefly describe, like the the ideals of actual gangs, at least in your territory, because that was like one of the most interesting aspects, Like you guys were talking about like the fact that neighborhoods were just overrun with gangs and whatnot, and you guys used music as an escape to not go down that route. But how heavy was gang activity in your formative years, like your team years and and and whatnot. Well, I'm trying to make it. I mean, we're you know, we're we're we're a we're a nerdy Joe, so you don't have to give us the truncated answer like we we like those those nerdy details. Yeah. Well, what happened was that I moved uh Gersey City my family, and uh I noticed that I uh my mother sent me to the store they get a little for bread at that time was called Lucy Called, and two guys walked up to me and said, uh, give me your money. What ye give me your money? So they the two quarters or whatever and I have My mother said, well, boy, are you gotta go back and get that quarter? I said, I don't know what you guys are, but anyway, so I realized that I was gonna have to be a part of what was going on or I'm gonna have to be the victim what was going on in the streets of Generse City in New York, you know, on the surrounding areas. And that was before I changed my name to Cool. My name was to Mango. To Mango. To Mango was the significant of to Mango. We know what happened with that. The that movie had Doty Jagergy and there the slave from Africa and they went to Mango, I took on I took on that name, and I end up those two guys. One name was Quinto, the other name was Monk, and the other man was Tiger. So I became a part of that game. And I turned around and I end up being the leader of that game. And we had about twenty strong. What yeah, in the movie and the book that the whole story before cooling, damn, And so I had to learn the ways the way up the street at that time. So you're saying that you had natural born leader skills that you know you've always had your whole life. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well my brother come of pull me out of that police getting a little rough out there, and I started playing the bass, and uh we saw the working uh the boys club, and uh you know, and things started changing a little bit. I was gonna say this, this is sort of archetype story, where like where you hear people just randomly say yeah and then I started playing piano. But like, how long does it take you, like how from how what was your musical i Q? Before you picked up the bass? And how long did it take you before you're confident enough to know I can play in a band or I can be a musician. Well, uh, the let's Spike makings his brothers playing guitar. I have to come back Spike's house, and I learned how to play one song on one string called coming Home Baby. Okay, We're working in the cafe well one night and at least man, why don't you come up? Because I was playing Cuba's boas and stuff. He said, what you um, come on up and let's play that one song, you know, as you learned on that one strain, and the guy gave me a base about the base and I played Coming Home Baby. So wait, I'm sorry. It is the question not when did you start playing bass, but when you started playing Counga's then, because then you just threw that in there. And that's back in Uptown, Ohio, paint can okay, looking four bongles. We used to sit up and uh Youngtown, Ohio, and it was a school called the mac of Uh School, and we used to take the paint care depending on how much paint is left in the bottom of the camp createdly that's gonna get yeah, So we played paint cares. We gave to Jersey and if my brother father, but uh some bongles us too, learning this one song and then I started um listening to you know, different songs, and then Charles Smith used to show me some lines within the base and that's when we became a part of the Soldier Man. And the name Cool that came about because there was a guy in the neighborhood and he was a hood and he uh, his name was Cool. He's supposed to it was a c I gotta get out of this thing. I like that name. So I took on the name Cool and spelled minds with the cape, not knowing that that was the beginning it was gonna lead up to Cool in the game. I did Cool ever found out that you were inspired by his name because you said he wasn't like, you know, not not really. I mean, he was one of those guys in the Projects man, but you was a boss. No, not really. So we're the fellow members of the the original incarnation of the group. Were they also gang related as well? Like how did you wind up organizing the band? And also like, I mean, I'm not saying that you know, I understand the finances of the situation, and in terms of that, you know, I know it's not profitable for any you know, band over four members to really make money like that. So, like, how did you incorporate the other members that start at least the first incarnation of the band once they became cool in the game. Well, I mean we started as l eight members. When we became cool in the game, we were all playing, you know, at the soul Town Band and the soul Town band we were. We created and learned the motile hits. Me. I would listen to Mom Jamison, uh the line to plan you know. Uh for the motown artists. None of those guys would from the streets. I'm the only one that had to deal with that. Okay, So what were those early shows like, like, did you still once you transition into music then, you know, were you able to successfully leave the street world that you're trying to escape from behind? Or do you still have to worry about those things when you're at shows, when you're going to rehearsal, when you're just walking around the neighborhood by yourself, Like, like, once you make that transition to a music musician, does that world still try to suck you in and bring you back to it? Or you know, once you became a musician, everyone respected that. Okay, he's a musician down like leave him, leave him be. Yeah, yeah, you have the problems, you know a little bit, you know, you know you're playing with with the pool, the game now whatever, right, you know, hardcore god quick try to create some problems. But I was able to get through that. But that was but yeah, we had that. Oh man, you know sold out man you playing that music stuff. Man, they saw it as a step back like some you're being a nerd now you're you're That's how they saw that, got the music, and they was in the streets. But you know, I think, I think, I think for for God, for the blood of that, because all them guys are all dead and so to jail. That was a blessing to make it through that during that time. I'm curious, uh, because I'm familiar with their history with you know, acts like uh Louis Rema and like g M Alone. I'm curious to how you found you know, like Fred uh well did you did you have dealings with Fred vigor Roto and Fred uh Fyoto and Ted uh Simon Simon Eaddy. I forget their names. I get those guys mixed up with Hugo and Luigi, but basically the three friends of ours that started Delight Records. Um, I know that gene Red was on the staff, but how how did you guys make the transition from local band too? Let's make a record? Okay, so just talking about and yeah, like can you talk about them and how they operated? I've heard stories, but you know, well there was a small gene Min story. Okay, he was a manager with KOLs Records and then uh changed to we went from Red Coach to the Light. I remember Mr V, Fiolo, Frenny and Mr V. They came back to my house in Jersey City and knocked on the door. There's two guys down there with these tell you looking guys. So Mr be that they came in it out and listen, this is how you live in he said. Listen, Um, when it's just like problems with Mr Red and uh, we want to bring you guys over to the Light Records. So that was and they put a lot of pressure on Mr Jim Red. He heard a story like the five heartbeat. They must have hung about the window one then, so listen, you're gonna give up as it even for the heart beats, you say, Red, I was like, is there a connection? Oh yeah, yeah, I was wondering. I was wondering how you know, if those stories were true? My dad had like minor dealings with with Delight because they were also associated with Pickwick Correct Pickwick and the Nasal. Yeah. Yeah, you know what with New involved, I was not. I was not involved with those guys, may be clear. Yeah, it's just that my dad, you know, my dad's Philadelphia and you know, after his his parase into oldies doo wop um, you know, he would do like these little one off records in the sixties. And it's no secret that a lot of a lot of the Jersey associated labels, a lot of the tri state areas local labels were kind of mob runs, you know, which even with sugar Hill, like with with with you know, with Sylvia and Joey, having dealings with like Mars Levy and all those cats, like you know, it was like dealing with the sopranos of the sixties. So but I'll add only only because your brother also told me probably probably two of the greatest stories I've ever heard of my life on you know, I'm always curious on how like classic songs get made, and UM, your brother kind of telling me the story of of the light pressuring you guys to make jungle Boogie against your will and somehow like you're you're embittered, you know, embittered sarcastic response to what they wanted wound up being like a massive hit for you guys when you guys hated every step of the way of that. Um, could you could you share that story? Well? Mr v as we call them and funny feel yo though you're calling friendly fyoda, he said, you guys. Um, you guys are been having some territorial hits like un Philadelphia and maybe New York. Yeah, maybe connect Connecticut, he said, But we want you to work with this UM. I kind of thinking that the last name was some Douglas. He hadn't had this big hit with Margo Dobanco and uh, he said, I want your guys to work with this producer. So we met him one time and it wasn't really flowing for us. So we would downtown to a studio called Baggies And we went in here around eight o'clock in the morning and we came out of there we had created jungle Boogie. Hollywood swinging and funky stuff. So no more problem from the big readers. But I heard y'all hated it. What did you hate about Jungle Buggies? Well, according to your brother that you know, well, your brother explained to me that, um, I guess you know mangoes world famous hit, uh soul Mikosa I E I'm saying, Mama, I'm about you know it was the the origins of that song was that it was it was a hit in France and over in Africa, and um somehow like bootlegs of the of the record made its way to the States right when disco culture is starting, and that was a very very popular song. And Colley's was basically like yo, like make make your version of this song. And because they were jazz knobs, you know, it would be like yo, Fonte like yo you you and little brother y'all called you a little underground okay players stuff. But you know, y'all, y'all gotta need a little losive album right right, And so, uh, you know, brother from the band basically said that you know, they listened to Soul Macosa and it felt like just African mumbo jumble music. We don't know this African mumbo jumbo music, so kind of mocking that song they made Jungle Boogie, and to me, the greatest moment, I'll say that my my all time favorite television show. It is really prevalent in my life right now. And there's there's there's a really telling moment about what I feel is the moment that Soul Train solidified itself in history, because you know, the first two years of Soul Train, Don had to lead heavy on his Chicago connections, so a lot of local you know, favors and one in between Illinois, Ohio, uh Indiana. So you know, he made friends with the Jackson Fives and the o Jays and Curtis Mayfield and the Staple Singers like all those local acts. But for the most part, you know, Don had to rely on older acts, so cats that you know, Jackie Wilson's on the show and Clarence card Is on the show and that sort of thing. And when you guys make your second appearance on Soul Train, um and your debut Jungle Boogie, it's it's such a magical thing to watch because the first thing that Don Cornelius says when he gets on the stage was, you know, usually guys, I have time to preview the A side and the B side, So you know, he thought that you guys were just cool with just funky stuff, which was the single you were promoting. Jungle Boogie was just a throwaway B side, and he's like, I never in my life thought that I could hear anything funkier than funky Stuff, and I think I just did so, not only to watch Don's reacts like the way that I described listen to public Umi's Rebel without applause, That's how Don's like, yo, like this is the future of of dance music, and not only that, the way that it connected, like if it's it's almost like if Trapped music was playing for younger kids today, like it's it's the way that the Soul Train dances came to life, dancing to to like that that song. Really, I feel like you guys are the first band to really connect to a younger audience. That wasn't you know that saw James Brown as older, that saw mo Town is older, like where's our music of now? Nineteen seventy four? And that was to me, It's just hilarious that you guys, according to your brother like hated that song. But at what point did you feel like, Okay, maybe we got something like that that you respected it and it just wasn't a throwaway B side. Yeah, but you know when it happened at that time, you know, funky stuff when number one R and B for about four or five weeks, and of course the Jungle Boogie. Uh. You know, because my brother was one of the key writers of a lot of my music, you know, back in the day, oh up to the most Frisian album we was coming out of called The Suit of Happiness, right. Uh, how he dealt with hornlines and how we dealt with with groups between the base the drama course and that's the found they said, you know that going the house so me and uh the druma George Bound used to create that. And then college will always come up with these these hard lines because even before that, I mean, we were doing songs like reason soul, see the tranctility, funking, Uh, let the music take your mind and tee. You know, we were doing all that too before we really I guess I got really big hits with the Jungle Body and Hollywood Swinging and funk yourself, and we didn't really have singers more so, you know we have you know, we have they called us like chance songs. You know, this is one thing I want to ask about those earlier records. It's it's rare to see, uh, like two live albums get released, especially when there's like no greatest hits to promote. But like, what was the ideology behind doing the live at the Sex Machine album and live at PJS, well, live at she Jas? What's so right around tome? Remember, I think in the g read kind of what's around doing going the live of Pj's album, and uh, of course, uh, live with the sex for sure. You know, we spent a lot of time you know, down uptown there. Then uh, I just try to do a live album Philadelphia, correct, yea? And that that what that is what brought out about that became a pretty popular album, Okay because dad, we froze that name, so they I'm Cold and the music. Okay. Another song that's like really uh seminar favorite for your your your soul era is with Summer Madness from the The Love and Understanding album Could You or I guess? Light of the World's Also there's two versions, like people like the the live version and the studio version, What was the what was the I guess the basis of that song and how did you guys know that it was good enough to release as a single. And also with like modern technology, like how open were you guys too the entry of like futuristic synthesizers and music, because oftentimes, um, a lot of the soul acts that kind of hit their peak in the first four years of the seventies, their relationship to the synthesizer, with the exception of Stevie Wonders a little shoddy, you know, James Brown, kinda like between James Brown and the Ohio Players and especially Johnny Guitar Watson, like their their experiments with synthesizers and moods sounds awkward at best. It's like the the odd the sonic oddball out. But you guys, of course probably again next to Stevie Wondered created one of the most definitive use of of of the synthesizer in soul and funk music, especially with Summer Madness. That's that's a sense of na yeah, okay, so how did that come into play? Like making he wrote the song Oh you don't have to change? Do do? Dodo? Yes? It's one of my favorites. Oh the vamp fight song. My brother was in the steel at two four or five in the morning. He could listen to that. He had just got his his arp. Uh synthesize. They said, that's another song at the end. So he end up doing the synthesizer solo on the van. Wow, and we asked black when you want to call it? Play called something about it. I don't know. Happen to the Summer Times you serious titles? Well, you know that that Some of Madness was going to become the type of record that it became. The DJ I think it's Ronnie Ronnie, uh Ronnie Jones and and uh Rodney Jones, but it was Rodney Jones. Yeah. So he played Spirit of the Book, right, and then he turned it over and we had some of Madness as the B side. Yeah, he played some of the Madness and everybody was calling up who was just oh, man, I don't know that Herbie Handcock, Well, that's uh different jazz artists. Oh, the school is in the game, Damn little Boy, the Spear of the Boy, and then slipped to a Summer Madness. It was Wow Puss in Chicago. Later on everybody was stepping Yeah, yeah, yeah? Is that the most simple cool in the gang song in the movie with Rocky when off forgive and had that fight? Now on on the couch one or now You're gonna get a butt? But wait, can I ask you a question about that soundtrack? Were you guys a little miffed at Bill? Like as as a person who works on a late night television show and you know, does commercials as well, I'm very familiar when when the producer or the director of the show those to you as the score and says, hey, give me a sound of like like this song and on you know on the Rocky soundtrack they do uh not going the distance. Uh, we're not going to distance. But um, the other Bill Contie song, there's like a there's like a summer man in the ring. Uh it was not alone in the ring. I know it's ring summer. Yeah, there's there's a summer madness bite that. Um. I always wanted to know, like did your people ever call those people like yo, like that's our song? That's plagiarism. I always wanted to know was it was it? Did you guys ever have a situation? I gotta find the song now, yes, it's called you Take My Heart Away, but there's a part like literally it's built like summer madness with the scynth line and the roads at the beginning and are making beef. I'm sorry, never mind what you say. Now play it again now, But that's what that's what like film scores do. Like half the time they can't clear the songs, and it's like, let me make my own, let me take the cube and mix it up and then while it's my version of it. But yeah, yeah, that one, I'm not sure as I can have that one with now, I think At the time, yeah, the bigger retails were still involved. Oh there you go. A lot of worlds Open Tessing Me in the Sertday Night favorable you now, yeah, you know Columbia Records, you know cut that dew and we no have any idea that Open Tessed Me become such a big record. And then on the Satday Night feb album, biggest album until Michael Jackson came and knocked it out of the box with Twitter. Yeah, it was over twenty million records on to do without on the floor doing this thing on some advantas I mean on the open Sessim Yeah, so with with that period of the group. Well, one I want to know when when Saturday Night Fever won the Grammy for Album of the Year, did each individual act on that soundtrack actually get a Grammy or did it just go to you know that the head of r SOL Records and that sort of thing, like did you because I saw like you all not not since like the Bodyguard, have I seen so many people on stage excepting uh and a Grammy four Album of the Year like it was. It was literally like almost fifty people on stage between you guys, the Tramps to Mars the Bgs. Also like you all accepted it, but did you all get your individual like Grammys for it for Saturday Night Fevers? That that just go to the the head of the label. We all we all just go out they all know grab me? Huh okay? Cool? Cool? Could you talk about the transition to disco because I mean that marks you're you're a third phase and you know how hard is it to to make that transition. Actually, one of my favorite all time cool in the Gang songs is um the opening side too, which is whisper softly Yes, Despair you love Me dog like yeah, like to me like again, the sign of of a good band in a good catalog really, in my eyes, is never the single. It's like what the filler is on the album? And for me, like I know there was there was indifference with your older fans as far as like you guys switching and changing up on them. But how easy was that transition into disco because it wasn't mindless disco like you guys were. Your brother was explaining that in his mind, he wanted all the horn lines to be sort of where Coldtream is going, like using these Eastern scales and Eastern chords that your average discode unit wasn't thinking like he thought that everything else was pedestrian. He was like going to make real intelligent. Like if you look at the chord structures and and the horn charts of Open Sesame, that's one of the hardest songs to do if you're a horn player. So like, as as a band or like who's are you and him sort of having like these these talks together about how how to keep the band intelligent and still stay with the times without like compromising the music. Well, the way that we kind of slipped into um out of the semis in the eighties. We were on tour with the Jackson five Promota was sold out records. Dick Griffy and they came up to us. He said, listen, you guys are doing okay on the tour. He said, but I think you need at least singer, and we said we do. So we thought about it and we said okay, yeah. Earthel and Fire has Philip Bailey about his white coming to us line Richie and they were burning discool records ince Chicago, talking about discool sucks some of the things going on. So we decided to take Dick's advice and get at least singer. James J. Chaylor was working on the studio Jersey west On called the House of Music and audition him and no one else. So my brother say, okay. He said, sings to these courts, these courts, a little jazz single, little pop. And when he finished, my brother said, you know, you sound like a naking cole Wow. Well but because he was, you know, one of the Cubi, and he said, you got the job. And your mirror. Dear Donald was in the studio producing his record and you're saying that a mirror dear Dodo was trying to produce James as a solo act. At the time when you met him there, he just happening to be in the same studio. Okay, yeah, do what we're trying to do. Of course, you know Mr V pulled Via Dollar there and listen, you know, to become a part of that, becoming the producer for that altum and that's when we moved on to uh and to the eighties within the singer. One of the things that Dion Dollar listen said, listen, now you um, you gotta make room for the least singer, because like all these singers, you know, we have the least singer. He said, you gotta open these tracks up a little bit. And uh, Ladies Night. Yeah, the horns instilling doing playing all way that it's cool. But also to introduce to introduce at least, oh Ladies Knight introduced Jta oh Man that that record in New York. Now, my wife and I used to hang out in New York. Uh do your fifty four mm. We know that every Friday night there was a Ladies Night. So I went back to the guys, you know what we should call the song the Ladies Night with something that was being created by George and my brother and the rest was history. Like I said, if I talk about that record, then why do men write the best female anthems? What is this? We know? Y'all? Wait, your your brother And as I said at the top of the show, your brother told me two of the greatest stories, the most two of the most unlikely stories of your hits. I'm asking. And at the top of the show, I said that your brother told me two of the greatest stories I've ever heard about how an unlikely hit got created. The way that he told the story almost made me feel like he did it by himself. Did he ever tell you the story of how he got the inspiration to make celebration? Well? After the Ladies night? All right, we have one two American Music Awards. H huh and evample ladies eyes. Well, this is your tonight tonight, come on, that's all celebrate. So my brother said something in that factor and he said, he started playing this fact had that kind down the home type of vibe with grandma and grandfather sitting and somewhere in drinking some cool aid. And he played that track and he said, then he had that whole country yahoo in there. Right, we didn't know that country. Yahoo, I never thought about it like that. Same here the way he's describing I'm like, that's exactly in the context of it. It doesn't sound like that. You don't associate it with like country kind of whatever record you know, to the day, it's the one we can't go back and do make another celebration. Never, No, that's that's the one in a hundred. But wait, he told me something that he said he never shared with the world. Wait, can I can I tell the story of how he came up with that group. It's it's one of my favorite stories of all time. So your brother tells me that he's in Los Angeles attending uh Rick James and Prince Joe and Prince is opening and he told your brother told me that he's familiar with the venue that um that they're playing it, and so he's seeing Prince. He heard about Prince, but this is the first time that he's seeing Prince and he didn't have his records. And this is right when I want to be your lover just started to get red hot. And so he told me that he was so impressed. What I want to be your lover. He's like, yo, that during intermission during change over between Prince and Rick James. I don't know who he's with at time, but he said, I'll be it back. I got run backstage real quick because you know, some some of those venues, some of those like shed venues might have like a piano in the dressing room that sort of thing. And so he runs backstage and he starts playing or analyzing the courts that Prince used for I Want to Be a Lover then d d d duh, and he writes the chords down and he puts in his pocket. Wow, So he goes, He goes, He goes back to his seat. He enjoys the rest of the show. He says, the next day he buys the forty fives I Want to Be a Lover, listens to it some more. Then dun He gets the piece of paper that was in his pocket from the night before, and he looks at the chords. It was like, let me try this backwards. So he notates the rhythm du du dun duh, and he looks at the notes, does it backwards and he plays na dun dun duh. Then that so it's he literally just inversed. He inversed the chords if I want to be a lover rhythmically, and it's celebration. But then on top of that, he was like, I need a good bridge. And then he goes over to Billboard and looks at the pop charts. Wow, and he notices that Michael Jackson's Rock with You is He's like, I looked at the top five and figure which one of these songs like represents where it looks like represents me? Like which which one would I be involved with? And it was like the Eagles, I can't tell you why, there's some other stuff whatever, And he saw Rock with You and if you listen to the chords, he's like, I just took the verse of Rock with You. So the whole boom, it's time to come together. It's been that's get in to you. Everyone around like and that's how he crafted moments, good songwriting. Ship man my mind like literally when he he he told me that story. He came to UH the first year ever teach an n y U. He came to my class because he's good friends with Harry Wagner. And when he told me that story, then I that night I called my manager and say, yo, man, I gotta I heard the greatest story in my life. I need a bigger platform and literally like that story is what made me want to start Quest Love Supreme. Like when I heard that, like I need a podcast, Like the world doesn't know that story and you know, yeah, can you can you talk about your brother and just this creativity, like like can you explain between the three of you and your musical sort of triangle? Like how how did that work? Well? I mean that that story that's just uh you just told about celebration. Yeah, he definitely you know that's what he did. I learned about it later, but when you listened to it, yeah, okay, you can hear that he reversed the song and the pressures are open up for us when you first started and press he set up the drums and you do everything. He goes to the mother and uh, he would do everything. And it's something about that guy, you know, like p funk. But that's what my brother used to do. Just um, he studied the music. And one of the things that my mother to tell him, he said, uh, you have to do for a great song, simple melody people know. So she thought about that. So Hollywood swinging downtime, do don't but what fucking stop? Really the melody that was stick with people, that was popular back in the day. Gamble said he did the same thing. Really yeah, always it's all about the melody and a supplicit. It was about the melody, yeah, Gamble said, Soul Trained, Love Trained. Some of the things are kind of similar, right right, Okay, Oh damn simple, you're you're damn the first time in five years? Score? Sorry? Why are you some gyms on? And stop playing? There's been a few. Well, that was that was the very songs ideas we came up with. I mean, whisper softly that was another one. You know that you like that? He did, and I love that man. Little Children is another favorite of mine too. I loved that. I did want to know the the KGS album was that really you guys? And then just letting them have a tag like were you guys? The were you guys? Well it was my brother mir h Kelly's was writing a lot of the hard tracks on that. So that wasn't you on bass? Because you have a very distinct bass playing style on those records? Well, I didn't know a player on none of the KGS records. Okay, Okay, the Harnts and all that was it was the Kelly's and then close to guitar parts and all that was there my brother during this period in which, first of all, like, how how are you guys is feeling in terms of you know, this period between nineteen and you guys are about to really have a rebirth the kind of moment you've been waiting for, Like did you even expect this type of reaction from a whole new audience? Yeah? And you know again I know that you know, there's there's always been this debate of like, well it's not like they're earlier material whatever, But I mean, how are you how are you guys mentally handling that, like still having massive pop success, but you know the occasional scoff of you know, a music critic that only believes in like your earlier material and you know might be crying sellout or whatever, Like is that bothering you guys at all? Well? Um, well we was. We was surprised and invested fact that we came throughout the Seven Nights and then we added the least singer and then the type of songs that that we that became successful. You know, like I gotta get down on this fresh and uh cherish misled which had rock vibe to it, you know. So we just continued to grow in the eighties. You know, everybody accepted it, even your peers because even you know, it reminds me of like talking to him too May and him talking about how like jazz purists scoffed at him when he came out with Juicy. Yeah, like even your peers, they were riding with your evolution, like this is what cool in the gang does. They evolved, Yeah, but that's it started happening, I mean through through the eighties and the nineties, and of course of them the cheat up the band, and we had to continue to move on, uh you know, the new millennium, and we just continued to grow and continue to work other markets. I mean we saw it going everywhere. We went behind our curtains and we're doing Romania, so Makia all um, through Europe, Australia, through Africa, right, almost ten years just developing and the plan the hissor everybody uh love and then was you know happy to see us the market We part wouldn't never went there, all right. I just continued to build, become a part of the Cooling the Gang, his parents all you have until him today. Um, A question I always wanted to know the answer to. With the exception of Jody Whatley whom okay, I understand she was living there at the time, But how was Cooling the Gang chosen as the loan American act to appear on band Dai. Do they know it's Christmas? Well? We were, Um, we were on tour and uh and then at the time and they told us that there was a doing a song for Ethiopia m S Drought and that's what we like to be a part of that. I felt Bob Geldof was the one putting the whole project together. We'll sure, we would definitely like to be a part of that project. And uh, we got up that morning and went down and enjoining all these rock groups and to become a part of that, I mean because it was I mean, you're talking about Ethiopia. It was a blessing to be a part of that, right we were the only bad that was a part of that. Can I ask a hip hop song? I just want to know cool since it am I wrong? You guys? Summertime was the first hip hop song. Example, Summer Madness right, But I mean one that took it to the one. Yeah, I'm curious. Wasn't the first though, but it was the most successful. But I'm curious how y'all made that decision and where y'all always open to hip hop sample in the music at that time. I believe it was the record coming again with that song and they wanted uh uh yeah, I did yef um. They played the whole track. It wasn't like a sample. They did the whole thing on top of the chape and came summertime, very very big record, you know for him he went from there to the to the movies. Right, But did you always did you always know? You guys always open to that, like, yeah, just take our song and rap over it, it's no problem. Well, it all depends. Back in the da UM there was a lot of sampling going on. Yeah, somebody out on sample patrol, right. But what happened was one day I actually uh watchington Uh. They made the rule that anybody sample records had to give sample clans the record compan and if they didn't do that, then the record compan would help problems. Mhm. Well, as I saw that we had to get clans from the record coming, did you, But you surely you knew the difference, and I'm sure you appreciate to this day the fact that there's a whole new generation. I mean, yes, I grew up in the household that played cool in the gang on the regular, but definitely by the time you know, the tribe called Quests come around and like sort of that that renaissance period between in two thousand and one, I'm not you know, even you know, I'm certain that Mace Don't Feel So Good has done a lot of good for yeah, a lot of business for people even knowing what Hollywood swinging is that probably wouldn't have known it happened. Me is not used it, you know what I mean, or even let me clear my throat or that sort of thing. So you know, I'm I'm certain now that you know, I would like to think that you guys were like sort of grateful that that happened, that your you know, your catalog gets gets used and used and that way these songs turned timeless. Has has there ever been a situation in which you guys rejected a sample clearance? No, not really a lot of times between the Water Chapel and they replaced the songs and uh various artists and not really at that time before that, before that, we have a sample Clarence Clarence, and that was it was like all old of place, you know, A lot of songs was probably done back then about right. So here's the fact that I don't think, uh many people know about the group past the JT period, which is that, um, you guys made a curious replacement of James j T. Taylor with none with none other than Skip Martin, who was the lead singer of the Dazz Band. And I don't think people even knew that, mm hmm, you know, after the Stone Love and Victory period. I guess, uh, the last JT record, which was I believe six, that's Skip Martin, formerly the lead singer of the Dazz Band, became you guys a new lead singer. Could you explain the situation that caused because I never knew why JT left the group or even if he's active today singing question is he still singing to day? Are you guys amicable? Have you spoken like what what's the status between you guys? Yeah? I mean we um spoken to j T. Uh from from time to time, had problems with management and have you know, and people uh suggested that, you know, he kind of do his own thing. You're in the group, Okay, you gotta go album and do their own thing, you know. I kind of thought that, Okay, if you have that problem, you want to do an album, you can still stay in the family. Did you know the singer drama for Genesis his name again Phil Balance, So he could have done that, but he shows, you know, to do it the way he wanted to do it right. Then we got back together and we did an album together. He came back. I was not aware of that. Was figuring about printz we nine. You left forget, but j T still around making music then doing his own thing. Yeah, he've been doing something. Yeah, I just remember the tap song. So yeah, the joint with the Regina Bell. Yes, I wondered. I was curiously no cool about your ab two years ago. Now that was the jam that was so about two years ago. Your niece Jenna, she did a show here in Durham where North Carolina, and we met and we end up talking and hanging and she was just you know, we talked and everything and she was like super cool. Um. I was just curious to know, do you have any other First, what was your connection with her or you know, how is you guys relationship? And also do you have any other like family members, niece's, nephews, you know, kids whatever that are making music now, not right now, but Calica sounds like she yeah, uhould be my labelment. Yeah, yeah, the whole different kind of approach. That's what he was doing the music now. I like, I liked this album that was called Prototype. I had that albums Jones dope, very creative his own way because Police was far but he wanted to go totally if you listen to that album, totally different directions. What Calia, Yeah, yeah, that album On the hip hop side, he's the DJ and he uh he has uh he goes by the name a Prince I King. He has called roll see Him and Walked and another song called Sexy. A matter of fact, he has one out now if the name is the one he has out right now turns of family members. Okay, So with with the uh, the unfortunate departure of a brother d T and your brother, how will that affect the future of the group where it is now as far as the band is concerned. Well, um, the album that we have out now which is called the Perfect Union, the single Happiness, What's My Brother Row That's something that we will be doing in there in the future and depending on the success of the album. But there was always different guys coming in uh over the last ten fifteen years. From the Hornbles you know that's Skip Martin and uh another guy named Rob V who played well the big bands along with the Clifford Adams played, and these bands. I have several home players that played when Police or d T wasn't on on the road with us. Feel that So, hello worlds, I guess you see the gang from the other game to the music game. He got quite a few guys coming into and out right. Actually one of those cats are it's Tuba, Tuba's brother. Um, he plays with you guys, My my Susan from Player he comes from. Yeah, yeah, we're talking. You're talking about the Jermaine Yeah, yeah, plays Trumbone with you guys right now. Yeah, that's a connection. That's your family. We're prepared to keep moving on for you know, as we say, and shall God. Well you know right now, you know, we like everybody else, for a year and a half, we really haven't been played that many shows, but hopefully in uh doors will open up again because we um, I guess we have been blessed to play with all different type of groups. We did four eight shows with Van Halen van Helen. What was that like? Yes, I saw and Van Halen at Massa Square Garden, but it made sense. What was that like for you guys? Yeah, so I mean we uh, we're going to continue to do that. We started to do that. This orchestra stuff. We played for the both of July the Los Angeles for the mic Orchestra. We've played with the Salt Lake City sixty piece. So we're doing I called the Classic Evenings cooling me. Yeah, I loved that. I want to go to a show. We're doing the Bowl. They did it first, Oh you just missed it. I watched it on Instagram. Yeah. But that's the interesting thing is that these uh, these orchestras and see how these guys play. I'm busy a lot of us have fun, you know with strings. Was like a challenge but something that they liked. It was like, hey, yeah right, we got the Organs, who has the orchestras. It's all been good and with the pstruitive happiness and the fact that it's called Pursuit of Happiness World peace, and uh, I'm kind of treating that song as a movement. I mean, but that uh, you know what's going on today with COVID and all the other things that's happening. And uh, my brother has insight to call it perfect union. M Um. What would be a perfect union? Now that's gonna happen in our life time. But to see that the democrest and the Republicans come together as a proof, oh lord, child, I don't know can dream yet and the whole pursuit that happens. Plus I've been spending time in the outh of Africa and uh he's talking about me becoming a part of the au the fifty two African nations. What countries have you been going too? Cool? Well, we're talking about I just did someone does Zimbabwe? I've been to and go uh uh Joe Bird, I've been to mostly all of them. But um, the whole thing is making the trash its in the movement now dealing with perfect Union and the Suit of Happiness. That was one of my brothers uh dreams what he put this album together. I kind of took a little for the world because it's just about world piece. And uh, I have said, I guess, uh last better than a big America great again? I said, what about making the world cool again? What I start? Can we just start with but whatever happened to the world, how can we get back again? There you go. You've been doing that before message music was even in vogue, like especially with like you know, on those cuts on like Wild and Peaceful where he has the conversation with as one we're scientists of sounds exactly heaven at once. Yes, he was a little Yeah, they're cool. What do you think about the world of to day? Yeah? That was a little brother. Yeah, okay, oh this is I'm just I'm just getting to understand. So y'all are really a South Jersey family as well, Like y'all, y'all everybody Muslim and whatnot to I heard how Kim, I heard a couple of like names. Everybody was Muslim. Just a name, this Arabic name, South Jersey Philly stuff. Okay, the beard, the name. That's all we need. That's all. No, Port Well, you know I'm with you. I'm coming back home, you know, coming back home. Impossible sports coming down. No, we don't need know im possible port put that dog. Trust me. Size is one point God my hawking products on this program. An that's the whole purpose of this program. Get it. In the beginning of the show, remember of Music History is coming out soon. I just personally want to know for you with all these iconic songs that you've done, like, what is your what are your three personal favorite This is my last question for you, but what are your three personal favorite songs that you've done in your catalog? That's kind one of them. Some of Man is definitely what Hollywood swinging? Okay okay, and of course celebration Hollywood swinging. It's all about who we first, what's going about for Hollywood? And again Frankie come out from Frankie Hollywood cropping. He broke that record in New York Ladies Night. Can I ask your capitalistic question before we go? If you were to stop doing music right now and no other music existed, could you tell us what's cool in the gang song? Could feed you for life? If I was stop doing music, Yes, Like, if you just stopped doing music and didn't care about any other songs, records or whatever, what's the cooling the Gang song that could have been feeding and we'll feed you for life. Oh well, that's that's celebration. I wasn't sory so many? Hey cool? Um we even they give me do a whole big thing. I think TikTok oh get it? And someone manages I mean you got I mean Will Smith? I mean the movie? Yeah, even what's my man? Laban James did u some of man? He's up on dumping diving into the fool with something. We might be summer madness seeing not some celebration. It might be it's definitely celebration. Celebration. Ain't never gonna die ever? Yeah? Hey cool? The DJ played celebration at my bar? Mite ever get paid for that, dude? And same thing? Yeah, wait a minute, I will ask have you guys ever done celebration at a wedding or at a bar? Mitzvah as cool in the game, And what is that rate? I'm still in my capital is bad? How do I get that at my next heavy price? I want to leave one. Listen though, when Super Bowl? Yeah the stealers and uh, who wasn't that super Bowl? Were they playing the Cowboys? I'm not stay and we're looking up Steve Bill and the stealers one that was that one and the stealers one of that one touchdown last few minutes of the game. So we were scareduled to play for Cardinals or whatever that team was anyway, and the only game to us and said, will you guys please don't play celebration. You're serious nine against the Cardinals, but we didn't play celebration. You did not play celebration because they lost that game. Okay, well then ladies night it is. Oh. Anyway, I want to thank you guys for the support of Man. Man. You're just you're with Man. You know you asked me questions that I have to remember again. Man, you know, I'm just dear legacy. Wait, fun thing. Did you have one last question? Oh? I was like, yeah, I had a question about fruit Man. Was that song? Is that a reference to the fruit Islam? That song? Okay, okay, yeah, we just came up with different ideas in concert. You know, back you know the day the fruit Man come by the truck and you want to get some wall. Wow, okay, good truck. I thought I heard that. I ever heard of read that something like belt. We had this conversation before and y'all was laughing at me and called me old. And I'm trying to explain to you all between at least the fruit, the fruit and the fishman were the same, dude, or my Grandma's blocked. Remember the fish man. We didn't have a fruit man. We had a fish man. Well, you see, to look on Lion's face right now, I don't believe you. I think you talking about your aunt down south. Yes, like just like, just like Mr Softie comes by every you know, every four thirty on you know, on his route. However, I will say the watermelon Man is still a very real thing and a lot of different cities, Yeah, but for Southwest Philly, like the fishman, we're just you know, the back of his truck would be like a whole bunch of ice and a whole bunch of fish. He just go up and down each block selling mackerel porgies like different types of fish. And then the next day he come back, same truck, clean and have vegetables. Next day fruit like they would take fruit to the hood. Like that's the thing I missed. We have the fruit man deliver, you know. Now we gotta go to the suburbs to get the good fruit. What do you say, Bill Long Island didn't have any man in a car. We had to go to the store. Amen. It was different hat stories. It was called food Deserts. We're getting to know each other America. Brother Cool, I want to thank you personally for you know, your legacy and sharing story with us. Um, don't forget support Le Cool. You know the new album sell Me a Bottle. After Jenna said that her she was like, he was like, you have My step mom loves that. So I was like, I gotta get something cool. Okay, cool, Yeah, we're drinking on some cool. So we got the rose for the late days. Oh but that's all you had to say, Rose, So Rose later stereotype. We go a Quest Love Marketing Supreme Ship. There you go, There you go, Rottle Sugar, Steve Finding God and Robert coop Bell. My name is Quest Love, This Course Love Supreme. We'll see you on the next go around. Y'all see you yo. What's up? This is Sponte. Make sure you keep up with us on Instagram at QLs and let us know what you think and who should be next to sit down with us. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast, all right? Peace? Quesch Love Supreme is a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.