QLS Classic: Usher

Published Nov 16, 2020, 5:01 AM

The multi-talented Usher talks about the deep importance of knowing where you come from, the terror he felt when he lost his voice and how he found success despite setbacks and disappointments.

Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

Of Course Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. Ladies and Gentlemen, Welcome to QLs Classic Episode twenty four with Persha, made two thousand seventeen. He's one of the brightest stars of the post MJ generation, and we get to chop it up with Usher about his life growing up in the spotlight, not to mention the pressures of keeping that light bright. We get confessional about doing it his way. We hope you enjoy Usher QLs Classic. Thank you. Roll Call Rogue Rogue q u E Yeah, st yeah, l O v E. Yeah, tell what you wanted to Roma Rogue, I taste the name. Yeah, I got so many tricks. Yeah, I should have won that Oscar yea for in the nick some ground Premar Sugar Sugar Steve. Yeah, this is my confession. Yeah, I love we We already greet roll Prima Prima Rogue. This this boss Bill. Yeah, I got to have some fun. Yeah, I've been away for a while. Yeah, I had to get the guns something Rogue. Plus I'm paid Bill. Yeah, so what's the deal. Yeah, I've been watching the West Wing. Yeah, pretending it's real roma Roadma rogue, It's yeah, I'm already called up. Yeah was usher? Yeah, I don't give a fun pre roll okayma, yeah my name is Yeah, I'm he with Team Supreme. Yeah. What y'all doing in here? Yeah? Man, I don't know what the hell oh Rima roll, Suprima rogue, Suma subprimo roll. That was cool, Lead you survive. I'll admit that uh US is the first guests, of course Love Supreme to actually have known of the theme before it was unleashed. You know, for those that are wondering about the themes, we never tell our guests what the theme is, like, we just you know, I was trying to think some funny shi to say the whole tel wrote down a whole bunch of ship that I didn't use them, like like maybe if I just have a few catch words, it'll just come to me somehow, some way. Some of the best moments of Quest of Supreme is when we mess up. Well, in case you haven't guest, ladies and gentlemen, UH In the ongoing tradition of adding members to the roots, as if there's not enough UH members already, I think users is going to be probably remember number seventeen. Still ye figrowing out I want residuals on everything in line with the rest of the Root's son. No, ladies and gentlemen, Uh please uh welcome uh friend of the show, Uh, friend of the roots, friend of of music. Music was yeah of music, um usser Aloisious Raymond the Fourth? What's your middle name? Alois I don't know. I mean, you know, like they're they're killing they're killing all my Cosby dreams. But I don't know, like Field's middle name Aloisious Huxtable that you didn't know that? What's the what's the symbolic meaning or word that wording? I don't know. It just means that you put a lot of thought into the middle name. If you name that, it could be like attached somewhere to like the family roots or something. Well, yeah, if I don't know the person, I'm just saying that you. I mean, you're first of all, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome us. We got right into so you said it just as it is. I don't have a mindal name. No, I don't have a name Usher Raymond. How many people there? You go, there you go, let's talk about it, like, yeah, that means you're you're you're grant your whole lineags escaped Hell make serious? I know, I know, yeah, joking, but serious when your son is five, right, he's the fist And who was the first usher? What did he do? I mean he worked in the theater, I guess, I don't know with theaters back then. Understand, you are obviously now we all were obviously given names by our slave owners, so you know, or either within the trade of what it is that was significant in that time. So I think that maybe it had something to do with you know, being a server or something. I don't know, snap, but I'm so late on that joke. Yeah, like I don't even have a sound effect. So my entire career, you thought it was a joke, Like my name really wasn't. No, No, I knew I should was your name, but I didn't think about us your being a given name and it really being like maybe it was somebody who was the ushered church from back in the day, or we just were having church back then. You know what I'm saying, they're using that's how that's how we found Jesus. Absolutely, So even though your freestyle on this, I would almost lean towards believing that's probably how there's some truth to it. I don't know. Yeah, but I become curious within the last two years. You know what I did. I did like you did? I did, and also to have been doing a lot of us Yeah why not necessarily with you know, get but but the point is just to understand where I come from. Where are you? I'm West African? We all are, isn't it true? I mean the research that comes back on every person that I've ever asked that West or either you haven't chosen to look have you? I have not not yet yet. Well that's good because that gives you an opportunity to do something to the initial I'm scared of giving DNA like that just feels like I feel like I'm giving DNA and opportunities to this skill the next I'm kind of sucked up. But but I have looked at it. I'm you got some kids on the books. You know, did you give DNA to make money many years ago? At some point did I give DNA? Gave play? She was real. It was a rough time, but you know, and I got it. Bet you know, I got my blood, you got the TV back ship was real. His first album on My Way to the Clinic. Well, yeah, I did that test and I found out what they told me that both of my parents were from Sierra Leo. But I'm gonna I'm gonna do Skip Gates is one. Uh he had to show on PBS, Henry Lewis Gates, Henry Skow. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, yeah, just kind of at least have some track. I mean, none of us are, you know, pure blood from Africa. There were a lot of different places that kind of we're mentioned in my um my pie chart, because there's like a pie chart that they give you and you kind of look and then you can determine like where you want to go from there with it, Like say you decide you want to go back to that village, what's the truth? What what's what is? What truth? Will you find there? Where you find the village that you originally from, a lot of those places, a lot of the places that we would go, they now adopted the idea of being modernized and being commonized, so so English is now applied. The true tongue of the place is not there. So I'm, if anything, I'm hoping that I'll go back there and there will be some facial features that I could see if you know, potential people, but for the most part they also to have been mixed so many times that they're not it's the original, right, it's been cut. I strongly recommend that you need to cut it. I know you need to. I strongly recommend that you contact Henry Lewis Gates because like the level, the the thorough level of research they do. You know, I'm gonna like for those they don't know, like uh, I guess for four or five seasons they were doing like all the black celebrities because of course, you know you're gonna get a glorious story out of that. But then when they did the Afflecks, once they started doing white people, um, Henry said that we're gonna have to to tell you the truth of yes, yes, yeah, And it was just that been Afflecks and Casey Afflecks family. They came from a lineage of like some probably the meanest slave owners or they ran candy Land for real and the real candy Land. You know, it's like, you know, they didn't want that information getting out and then controversy happened, so skipped just just like well, I'm canceling the show. Then if you guys are gonna censor me, and you know PBS didn't want to broadcast that episode. Now it's bad. Let's talk about the fact that technology has now allowed us to investigate our own lineage. And that's good. You know what I'm saying, schools, because schools. Back when I was in high school or middle school or elementary school, we were immigrants in the books, you know what I'm saying. So but but I'm saying, like, the gross perpetuation of what is going on in this country has just continued to just cycle and to the to the point where it's like you can't even really get an education about who you are. You can't who's gonna talk to you? Or we should talk about it doing Black History Month? Well, why the funk should we relegate our entire history to a month? Like how about how about how about we take the time to get the information ourselves, or either at least do some investigation along the lines of even just giving people an idea of what their lineage is. Who knows it might it might or might not be true, But the point is it's information and I'm happy out I'm happy that somebody decided to do that. But why is it that we as black people didn't come together and figure to shoot out by ourselves. I say and say, listen, let's put let's put this money together to begin like, let's do a collective right. We will go around, You'll go to any motherfucking church in the world, and there's a collection plate there to keep that establishment going. But we don't figure out a fund for ourselves to begin to even understand our lineages and begin to like build ourselves up, build our stags. That's why I asked you, how did you feel when you got the information back? Felt great? I felt great, released, like, oh I came from somewhere, because I don't think people understand the fact. That's what I was about to say. I don't think people you know. I was overwhelmed the most because I grew up in a time period where if you called me African, African booty scraps, that like not really so no, no, I'm just saying that in the early seventies, when you called somebody African, like on the playground, I got think hip hop though, because hip hop made me appreciate Africa. That's because you were born seven eight, so in the eighties see that five year Yet that five years I was born in seventy different see me being born in seventy one and being of age at nine and like eight eighty one. That's how shame we were to even be called that because but you know you you became of age at eight or nine in eighty five, eighties, six eighty seven. Well, they will manipulating your mind to celebrate everything but who you were? Right? But I'm just saying that those seven years between you and I of the seventies, that's a generation different of thinking. Whereas you know, but everything you become of age when public enemy is like, but did you travel to Africa when you were at age? No? Did you see pictures of Africa when you were when you were So my point is you would being manipulated. You noticed. I'm just I ain't telling you nothing. It was rhetorical, but I'm just saying, like, to be perfectly honest with you, it was hip hop that basically decided to use that as a farm, and it it spoke to us. Was it relevant you know enough to be like, all right, we're gonna lift up from this and continue to keep it going. No, they were y'all were they were courageous as hell to even have the conversation. And what happened after that was, Okay, we can continue to talk about Africa and talk about the things that are gonna lift us up and talk about being you know, connected as a community. Then it was drugs. Then it was the opulence of drugs. Then it was the disconnect from anything that had anything to do with being smart at all. So now here we are. And then some of our artis that came from that era, like the whole eating with the whole collective of Daylight and everybody else. Like people got older, they got into making money and brands things like that. As as we have so clearly noticed within our generation that we don't live long enough in order to celebrate what we started fighting for the most of the most of the people who were advocating before they got official jobs. So now they're in South from they got they got government jobs, you know what I'm saying, and they're trying to survive, and then whatever the hell they got they're trying to hold onto. So it's like they can't go too deep. And then they realized, oh man, this is a this is a trap which is not to not for nothing. But that was the argument with some of the public and the Grammys versus Golden Globes, because it was like, oh, we show me as quiet. We got to protect our brand. But meanwhile it was at the other one it was like, uh, but I'm just it's just interesting in that way, very interesting protecting if you want to talk about that, if you want to talk about it, I don't mind being as though you're you're an Atlanta native. Okay, as we get further into your story, I'm curious to ask you how your your current mind state, your evolution correlates with the culture that Atlanta has now as far as hip hop culture is concerned. But okay, great, Now, I'm gonna sound like the cliche, but I want to start back in the beginning. Let's go back. You're gonna take your way back. So, so you were born in Atlanta, Georgia. I was born in Dallas, Texas. Really, I was born in Dallas, Texas. Fort Worth, Yes, fort Worth, Texas, which Dallas, Dallas, Texas on US and the fourth Yeah, how long did you live in Dallas? A year? I don't count. I mean, that's why a lot of people were born and you were actually went to you know, military brats. But my father and my mother, um, they left Chattananooga, Tennessee, which is where I would ultimately end up. So and that's why I was actually from. But um, my mother and father went to Dallas, Texas to really start, you know, to start a new life. He played basketball. She you know, she was she played basketball as well. But she was an intelligent woman. Yeah, my mother played basketball. Yeah. I mean neither of them made it to college because they had me, so they kind of that kind of was the route of awakening for both of them. High school. My father would have went on to have played basketball. He was an incredible basketball player. Uh, noteworthy to this day, like everybody still remember Archy that was his name. But um, they moved to Dallas, they had me. Um relationship was obviously, you know, not able to survive, and they broke up. They broke up. She brought me back to Chatting, Tennessee. And that's where I'm from. Okay, Yeah, we're any of them musically inclined or it was just a matter of just playing. You a whole bunch of stuff in the house. And I think my mother is the person who was most responsible for introducing him, introducing me to music. But after I met my father, I heard him and I realized. I realized he had a voice. He was a man of conviction, but not you couldn't get a ship together, you know what I'm saying. He spent most of my childhood high and a substance abuser, and he never was around, never anything, never, no connection, nothing until I think I was like maybe thirteen or fourteen years old, that I really make a connection with him where I could see him in a positive light. He was a pastor for like that time that summer, and then he disappeared again. But um, which is more? Which is the case? So that that's another story about we're talking about history, and we're talking about Africa and the idea of what that was, but also two fathers of that time. Like most of the people my peers that I talked to, they felt, you know, some of the same reality. And then for those who didn't, you know, they became kind of the reference. Like I was one of those kids who hung out with my friends to see how you know that his his relationship was with his father as an idea what or either it was a Cosby show or something like that or first Prince of bel Air. It kind of at least between like up to ten, who was the guy you could talk to you about my grandfather. I had a lot of uncles, so my uncle Darrel, uncle Bruce, uncle Gary, he lived in um d C. Didn't really talked to him that much, but he's in my mother's brothers. But Bruce Darrell O'Neill. I never met my grandfather, which I felt was you know, I'm looking at pictures in him. You knew his name was John Henry Hard Yeah, yeah, he yeah, But but yeah, man, you know I didn't really I i't have a reference. I just kind of looked around and it was a collective of people that kind of just invested into me because they realized I didn't have a dad either. And I mean I turned out pretty much, you know, I right, But you know, it wasn't like I was pulling from the source. I was actually pulling from the lack thereof. So not having a dad made it like a task for me to, you know, no, to be in my child's life, to be there for them to understand who they are. And I'm telling me to wrapped this around just so you understand part of the reason one of the reasons why twenty three and me was so important. There was a lot of things that were kind of like egging me on, like about not knowing who I was and not and us not knowing you know, you know, being introduced. When I went over the overseas, two different you know, types of spirituality Aruba, um um century and all these other things that I just saw. It was just around. I was like, man, it's crazy. All these people who my it from Africa to these neighboring islands. They preserved the idea of what our our original spirituality was, or our connection to spirituality was. So I went to school and they and they wanted to do a lineage, like they wanted our kids to offer something from a place that they were from. So you have kids who were from Italy, you have kids who are from all these you know, this is a school in Atlanta. I don't want to want school. That's how interesting. Like they know, they know, but they but okay, So this is not a public schools to private school, and it's for all the right reasons, right And when I asked my son where he was from, he said, I'm from Atlanta. I'm Georgia's like, actually, so you're not from Georgia. Yeah, I'm from Africa. Now, A'm from Africa. And that was the beginning. And it was like, you know what, this matters, This matters, and I gotta, I gotta, I gotta go ahead and go do with this. And I've been talking about it. And I went ahead and they did the swab and went through the whole process of giving him like and that that that was just like the I gotta get this right. So what's his mentality now? Does he have a deeper understanding? He has eight he has a deeper understanding. And even even though he does, we actually, you know, we put the following year because they have it every year. Um, we put together his thing and that was all these things that you know, they made from West Africa or Mali, which is where we kind of claimed. But he still wanted to bring macron and cheese. That's part of it though, that's the African And by the way he showed it to me said no, this is actually something that was made there. I was like, all right, okay, cool, all right. Teaching you So, so at what point are you finding your your voice, your your actual singing boards, like, were you raised in the church or was it? It was my mother, My mother she was you know, she was a youth director of her choir in church. So um, outside of listening to what was on the radio, and you know, just the same the same way as you know, y'all had ciphers and hip hop or either was had bands and ship like that, right, we had ciphers to a singing. So if you came to school and you couldn't sing like what was on the radio, then you was kind of whack, you know what I'm saying. So so I would listen to the radio and I listened to how people were singing and what that reaction was. And then you know, I was listening to my mother preparing her, you know, whatever she had to do to teach her students. And I asked, I said, you know, can I be in your you know, a choir? She was like, you can be in my choir, but if you act up, I'm gonna kick you out. So don't think that I'm gonna give you any like I'm gonna lay off you just because you know you're my son. Of course, I got kicked out the choir about two or three times. But you know, um, she let me do my solo you know what I mean, every so often? What question you talking about just singing? Uh? A question? Your first vocal coach? Yeah, apparently she had break down like certain songs and you have to learn the harmonies and it was like really advanced. Talk about that all right. So, um, she made me listen to take six and she would say, how how old are you at this point? Um, I'm about for the first take six, So I'm fourteen. I'm fourteen, and I mean I didn't have a vocal coach as an artist until I was signed, right, That's when it really started. But before I didn't really need one, you know what I'm saying. Like, I mean, I don't think I was perfect, but singing all the time, repetition basically begin to prepare me for and anything that was on the radio, I would try to beat it so if I could sing better than it or either add live in between little spots to kind of make it my own. I do that. But I was singing it to the tune like exactly the way that it was. You know what, I have a theory about usher, which is it was it was. I think this is when I'm the you Make Me Want A video came out and we was like we were in the studio recording and the video came on the monitor, like the volume was down whatever, and my manager, rich Uh said that you know what you're watching is He said that Usher was the beneficiary of the first of the what I call the VCR generation. And I was trying to figure out what he meant, and he was like, you see the mechanical way he's dancing, And I was if you remember the way, like how mechanical the dancing Wasn't you make me wanna? He was basically explained to me that, and like did that? Always wanted to ask did motown have an effect when you? Did you see it the first time? He came? So, I mean Kim on an eight three, so I guess you were like five or six, Like did that performance mean anything to you? Because basically what he was trying to say was that in your formative years of getting entertainment you had a VCR to keep rewinding and watching over because it was more important to my cousins and my older trickled down like it wasn't the first thing with you, but now I wasn't it but I would have never guessed that in the skillion years. Well, everybody loved Michael Jackson, but that was that was just off of you know, Off the Wall and all that, so we be I could appreciate Off the Wall a little bit later in my life, and he wasn't really the person who influenced me. Michael Jackson overall was as a present because he was the biggest, right, But it was guys like Bobby Brown that connected, you know what I'm say And and yes, looking back at that, it was special to me, but it was like, I can't I can't obtain that, I can't reach that. That's not that that unnecessarily I can emulate it. I love Thriller. I was there where everybody watching Thriller, right, and that that phase, Yes, everybody was completely crazy fanatic over Michael Jackson. But even still I was trying. I was trying. I tried to emulate what I knew I was, and I was more of a street dancer and a singer. And I listened to New Edition Bobby Brown and in that world from the fact that no, I'm just saying that you none of your experiences are firsthand church, you know, talent shows. Yes, that started in talent. I just meant for in terms of of like radio plays a big part of of of your experiences, whereas like a lot of the people that traditionally start my ship was Donnie Simpson. What I'm saying, So it's like that was my generation. I'm from that I'm from, Yeah, Sherry Cardon and Donnie Simpson. That was my generation. And that's basically how I made the connection. But dance was it the thing like, mom, I want to sing and all this things. It was just like, oh yeah I could do that. I can dance. But I mean, were you thinking, like eleven, that's what I want to be when I grow up? Like it was Michael that made me feel like that's what I want to do. It was Bobby Brown that made me feel like that's what I can do. So Bobby Brown was more accessible to you. He's your hero. Wow, damn, I want to get your feelings on a New Adition movie. Um, So at what point are you? I mean, at what point does this become a thing where you become serious about it? Because you you the first group was when you were like eleven, right, twelve? Well, talk about that experience. So, um, that was a they were youth anti Uh, they were anti youth drug group who came to high schools to talk about drug abuse, um, gang violence and stuff like that. Right, And I it is back in the time when I wasn't like in talent shows, just trying to find my way. So if I wasn't singing in church, I was singing, you know in the yard, you know, in my neighborhood. You know, my cousin he used to dance, so he was battle and stuff, and he had me come in like like the little kid from you know, b Street, uh and breaking and I'd be like the special guest, the cat who come in and just slaughter because you know, no one expected you and your like three carc like the random person in the crowd. But um, yeah, it was it was um, it was. It was. It was more Bobby Man. It was more Bobby Brown than anything. But finding my way to my voice. It was just kind of try to never listen to that damn radio and then watching those videos. And then I met this manager by the name of Darryl Wheeler, right, and he was like, I really want you to be and I want you to you know, audition for the group and um, he said, I want you to come to the show, and we just so happened to be in the talent show. Me and another cat, another two cats, and the talent show was over and then they were to perform. So while they started their gig, I was in the back of the room just kind of looking, you know, looking, and I'm and I'm watching all these people go crazy over these guys. So I just got up, ran to the middle of the floor, like, ran all the way down the island, just started dancing in the middle of their ship. Yeah, I mean, but that was it was like I wanted it. I wanted too, I wanted to be a part of it. And him leaving that little door open, which it was my It was my best friend named Demikus who introduced me to darrel um at in our auditorium at my um my elementary school or middle school something like that now elementary school. UM. But after that, man, I just kept I just kept, you know, going wherever they were they had to, you know, performance downtown. You know. Eventually they start having rehearsals in the gymnasium in the neighborhood. So I started coming in and just kind of trying to look looking at what they were doing to try to figure out what their dance steps and things were. And I would just sing. I would just I used just saying um ready or not after seven, remember that, right, man? And I was like, you know, just use my use my talent, and let me figure out how to get in whatever I gotta do. They run heels and have all these drills that they would do, you know, to kind of prepare themselves and make themselves better performers so they could, you know, not they wouldn't be tired on stage or whatever. So I did it. I was like, all right, I'll do all of that. That's what I think. The oldest oldest guy in it, Anthony Byrd was he had to be like sixteen or seventeen, maybe seventeen is uh. There's three other guys, Adrian Read and another guy by the name of Chocolate, So they were all in this. We were in this group together and it wasn't really going because the reality was they were built to be what they were and you were meant to be. So no, it didn't had. That didn't happen U till a little bit later. Actually, it was I'll tell you My mother was the reason that it happened. But we then became a real group and we went to ForSight County and UM in Florida, and we signed with this record company, ForSight Records, and we started, you know, building songs. So I had this song dream Girl. That was the first record that I ever had in that group. So then it gave me like a voice because otherwise I was just trailing trailing behind playing or dancing to the records and ship that they had UM and every so often I kind of, you know, up to try to upstage somebody else. He was just doing riffs and ship like that. But um, my mother was like, you're not really getting there. You know, I'm not. My son's not getting the benefit because he's never on stage. You keep put him in, putting him in the back, and you know, she just wasn't happy, you know. So he tried to do whatever he could. Eventually, you know, I left the group. She wanted me to get out of group. Of course I didn't want to get out. I actually ran away. It's crazy, ever, I ran right away from from never to run away from home, but never do it. I tried to run away from home. Oh black kids don't run away from I think when you come back to our black parents, they'd be like, good exactly time, I'll bill Steve Yard ever run away from home to run away from my sister. My sister ran away from home like all the time. So she'll be back tomorrow. Yeah, let's seeing like bentures are crazy? A man, Come on, So what year was that when you ran away? I mean I was twelve and this is around the time my mother had moved me to Atlanta, and I was like, you know, you you destroyed my world. Man, this is everything to me. You said, I just look forward to it. She was like, I hear you. Okay, She's like, but she said, you're not gonna go where you want to go in this group. So I'm gonna, I promise you, I'm gonna put you in every situation that I can to be able to help you, to show you that you're worth it, that you are a solo artists. So she started me and entering me into talent shows, auditioned for the Apollo addition for a star search. I got into a talent search, a talent show by the name of UM Atlanta Talent Search in Atlanta. UM. I was recognized by Ali Reich's brother Brian Reid, who um then introduced me to a guy by the name of A. J. Alexander. He was kind of all in the middle of this ship who actually was a bodyguard for Bobby Brown. So Bobby Brown Brown's bodyguard situation. Yeah, night night. Yeah. So wait, why why did she move to Atlanta from Chattanooga? She moved because just you know, they she wanted more man, she wanted more out of her life. What was like, what was your observations of Chattanooga was there? I mean, it's not much different now than it was then in terms of opportunity for you know, advancement, Like it's very there's if you have the confidence that comes from elsewhere, you will wander into other areas. But if you don't, black people stay away from white people. And as a black side of town, damn near in a white side of town or a progressive side of the town. And whenever I'm there, I kind of go with between the both, and I'm like, yo, have y'all ever been it? Like, we don't go over there? You have you you returned to Chatto No, no, no, I've returned to Chattanooga to do do you know philanthropic work back to you? Right, Yeah, it's what area is that it's in front of the school that I was telling you about Dalewood. It's like it's like right down, um, right in front of it. And I want to know if he had this Chris Rock sign moment. Fo. Yeah. So she went to Atlanta just to get you a better opportunity was she went to Atlanta because it offers something better for her. My stepfather at the time, he worked for this UM trucking company and it was better for him to be there, and also too, it was an opportunity for her to be able to move forward over you. I was eleven eleven twelve, so I was kind of going back and forth from Chattanooga to Atlanta working with the group and UM when we worked on that album. You know, it's you know, I was kind of just moving wherever I could. Man, because I at the age of eight, that's when I decided what I was gonna do. I had this vision and from that vision it was like, Okay, I want to be an entertainer. I wanna I want to be on stages. I want to perform for people, and that's what I want to do. I don't want to play football. I know all y'all played football and basketball and baseball, because my entire family it's comprises let's like all star athletes. My uncle played for the Kansas City Chiefs. Um My, my cousin, he played a duke, all these guys. That kind of gave me some kind of idea where I wanted to go. And I was like, no, that's not me. I wanna I want to perform. I want to entertain. But how problem must they have been when you did the Cavaliers move, because that's like the perfect combination, like they must have been. Oh that's great. Yeah yeah that was That was pretty cool, right, yeah, like you even did it either way? Yeah yeah, you know, Um, Ali enough man. You know, once my grandmother passed, we don't really get together the way we used to, and I wish that we did more. But everybody's growing up. Either they have kids that some of them back and shouting with. Someone moved to other you know states, some people got married, you know, some people live in Atlanta. Some people you know, moving moved to d C. But um, we don't talk as much as we used to. Yeah, yeah, I gotta work on that I work on that. Big Mama is the one that keeps the family together. You can't go all the way to West Africa and I go to Chattanooga. You know what I mean. You gotta get that something. You gotta picked up a few people. So okay, So by the time you're eleven, it's like the nineties, early nineties, I guess, um by this point, I mean, Atlanta's officially put a stamp on being a black music mecca. I mean, is that fact lost on you or is that something you're not thinking about, like, oh, this could be a better opportunity for me, because it was part of my mom's plan. It was a part of my mother's plan. She even mentioned she says, you know that L. A. Read and Baby Face, you know, they just started a record label in Atlanta, and you know, I hear that. You know you could get you know, if we put you in talent shows, you can get recognized. So um, she put me in this. That was his brother's A distinction I think was the name of the name of the group that was putting together this thing. And somehow L. A. Read's name was attached to with A. Bryant Read's name was attached to it. And that's I'm telling you, that's what I made a connection. But it was really a j A J. Alexander the Deaths, the dude who discovered me. Man, out of all the people who could claim and say, you know, I found him, I saw him first. That was a dude who really recognized my talent and was like, yo, let's work with me. He to man, this dude took me everywhere. Man, this dude took me to meet Bobby for the first time. I thought I was gonna be Bobby Brown's artist. That didn't happen. I said, I may have dodge the bullet you definitely, But also to man, and I can remember way back, he'd had me in the parking lot of one twelve Keith Sweat coming out. I have to perform for him right there in the middle of the parking lot, Dallas, Austin in the parking lot, Jamaine, do put all of these people like just trying to get Yeah, I have on another level where he's in. He's in Atlanta. He goes in between Miami and uh in Atlanta. Yeah. So you he's a photographer now, man, Oh that's dope. Yeah. So you were allowed out after hours to sort of case these spots and and perform and without a doubt. I was not the kid that you told no, because I wouldn't accept it. I'd say, Okay, if you don't want to, if you don't want me to do what I'm doing it, guess what I should. He's still I was your Your favorite least word is no, like for those for those of the new context, you know I shouldn't. The roots are working together now, so whenever I want I should do something, I now have to present it in a positive context just so he can say no. But I guess had been that now, thank you? Now I know what you're doing. You know what? Yeah, I said, you're right, we should we should do a twelve inted version of you got it bad. But this must have been a really hard job for your mom because like your mom evolved into like supermanager, like she was like Matthew knows before Matthew knows, And at the same time she had to keep you confident as an artist but humble as a man. In how why did I want to know what kept you out of trouble? Because that again I said, confident as an artist, but kind of like humble as a man like, not not a commercial, not a not a dickhead, not because as we're sitting here talking to you, and I've seen we throughout the years, you're not a dickhead, like you're a very humble individual, but like a mirror just said, you know what you want, you won't say no, but you know, fine line. The confidence was the confidence came for me, right, and it came from the security of having someone who I knew had my back, which is my mom. So as long as she was able to focus on the business, I could focus on the art and the creative part of it right, which made it all right. And then the rest of it was like I just never wanted to be in some ship that I felt like that I couldn't control. You know what I'm saying. I never wanted as in so many people were getting caught out there. So those references was like, I'm not had. I can't let none of that ship be the reason that I don't make it to where I want to be. And I'm definitely not gonna let you know. I'm not gonna because and I had so many little heels to climb, like I lost my voice as soon as I got signed, Like, imagine that right when you signed the first deal. When I signed, when I signed a deal to the Face Records, I lost my voice? How long I lost my voice? Puberty or like puberty for about two months. It was like that, and you didn't know what. You don't know what the hell was getting to go on. The label was talking about dropping me. This was after port I couldn't perform the record. They put the record on, had a yeah, they had a showcase for me, and I couldn't perform the record at all. Puff Puffy was there. I think it was entertaining him, him being my m my executive producer at the time, but um man, it just it went away. What was it? Wow? Okay, because nothing. I have favorite theory for everything. But I'm saying like black people rarely delve into psychological matters or whatever. Like I know that me personally, for anything that I'm trying to overcome, you know, and something happens like an injury or something, it's you know, I'm sometimes I think like, Okay, how do you really feel? Are you scared at this moment? Whatever? Like the mind does have a way of crippling you and while you're facing exactly Now, in theory, was it eight weeks laryngitis or did you feel afraid in theory, what do you think in theory that I feel afraid. I felt like it was over and I felt like, okay if I just I mean, I did what I knew to do at the time, which was prey. Did you feel a psychosomatic Yeah, well I I subconsciously. No, I didn't. I didn't sabotage myself. It wasn't fear or something like that. No, you mean in terms of just having to go through that at that moment, because sometimes your body can know. It had nothing to do with that. I was working my ass off and I wanted it. Yeah, yeah, Okay, there's an there's an artist that I can't name right that it's always the same artist out everybody in the room can know. But no, it's not that artist. It's not it's not the fourth letter of yeah. No, it's hell no, it's you know, okay, yeah, because that's always him. Okay, yeah, I keep dragging him under the No, there's okay. There was there was an artist that uh we were working with and um, a situation happened. Oh god, Okay, the situation happened in which lets there, you always get so frustrated, I know, because I'm not I'm not trying to be gossipy or ride somebody on the bus. But I think this is a classic case of it. Their teeth started to fall out. Now, it wasn't like oh, they got like literally they're saying, there's a pressure that comes with you. No, that is a pressure, you're right, Okay, so now I'll follow you what you're saying. But I had a different destiny and I was connected to it, and the moment that I decided that that was what I was gonna do, I wouldn't let anything come in between me and that. Right, But you're right, there are tons of people who sabotaze themselves, got caught up on you know and drinking and then eventually, you know, moved on upgraded to you know, heroin. But I don't even think that this thing like, okay, a big moment about to happen for me tomorrow, let my teeth fall out right now, or you know. But I do believe that subconsciously we are able to create obstacles without even purposely wanting to do that. Which yeah, wait, wait, wait, First of all, how was he she she? You know the story you la ya? I mean, I'm putting some things together. Oh damn. Um mid twenties, so that's far more advanced than a child, you know what I'm saying. So the reality of probably the disappointment that led up to that moment had everything to do with the pressure that was going on with her. So like so when you so you look so you cut, you'll cut, uh call me a mac and then you lost your boys because this point it just that was what n three three ninety? How did you get on that soundtrack? Because that wasn't even face related. It was no l A reading baby face. They actually it was on the soundtrack too, So okay, I mean, but was that a face slash epic thing or was it was a l A reading baby face thing? I think I think they had something to do with the like organizing of the album. They didn't produce all the songs like Boomerang and all that ship but um, yeah, man, that was that was kind of like my lunch. But at the rate that I was working my voice, I mean I had saying till I actually you know, lost my voice plenty of times, but this time when I woke up the next day that ship just didn't come back. So the next day came, and then the weekend was there, and then it was the next week. I'm like, what's going on? How did you feel? I mean, I felt like my window of opportunity was closed? And I felt like, Okay, what were people saying around you at that point, like um tisk, Yeah, they were like, okay, well, what what's going to happen now? Because you know this kid, he's lost his voice and he can't perform this song, so we'll just kind of ride it out with him. You know, I signed a contract with him, so at least I had to you know, the length of the deal, you know what I'm saying. But at that point, the fear of man, They're not gonna put any more money into me if I don't get if I don't do my part. So I had to do whatever I could to try to fix or remedy the problem. And this is before you even started recording the factblem I hadn't I had well, I went through a while. I worked with the Dungeon family, and I worked with these producers out of Detroit by the name of Tim and Bob. That's when I want my guy. So from the idn't know that. No, I'm sorry not to me about Tim and Ted, Tim and Bober from Peh Tim and the Characters. Yeah, yeah, so characters. Yeah, they were on that Taylor and Ted. Anyway, Tim and said they worked on a couple of records with me and I lost my voice, man, and I just it just went away, and I had to figure that sh it out. So now I'm dealing with the fact that the labels getting me to drop me. And Puff was like, now, y'all can't do this kid like that. Let me take him to New York. So he took me. He started putting, He put me with vocal coaches out here to try to, you know, kind of change the direction of it. And then his idea wasn't about me being this perfect singer, even though I had like, you know, Kenny from uh Intro and um Missy and I mean like great singers, Faith Evans, all these great singers around me, you know, and they were supporting me to like, now you're gonna be all right, just keep going. I'll be sure. He worked on my first album. Yeah. So wait, so Puffy took an interest in your career even though you weren't signed the bad Boy or his management company. I mean, okay, so the reality of how the business works is I right. So if you have an artist like me, there's an open budget, and if you're attempting to establish a record company, that damn Nick gives you free range to do whatever you want to do during them sessions. So so I was not. But but by the way, a genuine relationship was bund was was built in that. But don't getting funked up. I knew what was going on. Like if Craig Mcki is walking out of my walking out of my session, you know, I'm like no, But I mean, but by the way, that was what it was in that time. That's the nineties, you know what I'm saying for some bad boys stuff. Boy, So like, what was that like? Because from what I understand what I read before, that was like book like for you, like he had you, And like what was that ship like with Puff during that time? I mean like, yeah, to say the lead you moved to New York by yourself or like your mom came with you. I moved to New York with my cousin and shortly after that, Puff was like I got him, my cousin left and that's way. Yeah, all right. How old were you this time? Around this time, I'm fifteen. Oh hey man, listen, what were your mother's rules? What was her she? I mean, thank god she raised a sensible child, you know what I'm saying. Because it was readily available whatever you wanted to do. You know what I'm saying. It was it was, it was. It was pretty crazy. And for for the average kid, they would look at it like, Yo, this is the greatest ship ever. But for me, man, I was a bit sheltered, you know what I'm saying, Like I really hadn't been exposed to sex and ship like that. Like I was. I'm from the South, you know what I'm saying. I came in with a ruffle jacket on, looking like I was in Earth Winning Fire, you know what I'm saying. You know what I'm saying. So and Mark Pitt's picked me up from the airport and was like, Yo, we go, we got you. You know what I'm saying. You know on out we gotta get this jacket off you guys. So you was just wrong with the bad boy posse like it was like yeah, yeah, man, I was really a biggie new Yeah. Yeah, how did he have you working? Like what was the I guess the boot camp? Like what was that training regiment? Like we take your budget and he was ready to die now but he but he had me in the studio with Davante. I worked with I'll be sure. I worked with Kenny from um Intro. I worked with you. Gotta tell the story. I don't mean story, but it's like no because like faces backgrounds on that app like she's nuts, Oh my god. Yeah, yeah it was crazy. Man, what the I'll teach See, I'm like, y'all got questions what I'll teach you? When we're talking about Whispers? You know what I'm saying? Like, man, she said, that's one of your favorites. No, that's my favorite ran Yeah, that was my favorite on that album, Whispers Final Goodbye. I'll show yeah because at the time I think of you, we like think of you because that was chucky. He flipped the who got the problem Ronnie Ronnie laws So it was like I was like, oh, he's singing over the black woman Ship. But um but yeah that record because I was and I'm oblivious. I don't know nothing. I'm just uh that album spoke to you when you yeah, okay, I get it. That's another generational thing between the two of you and me because again I assume were seven, I'm seven eight. Again that that that the difference, like pre seventy five, seventy five cats, we have a chip on our shoulder about R and B. You know what I'm saying. So we're not that receptive. Like even when I'm at D'Angelo, I was like dismissing, like R and B cat whatever. I mean. I was just a Nazi that way, So I would have been more dismissive to it whereas we were because y'all were sixteen when it came were open and at the time, I mean, because I always thought was strange that that record, uh, in hindsight like it kind of you know, people thought that he was that you were too young to be singing about Yeah, but but it was right in time. But where we were developing right exactly. That was my wh It was time for can you get it? Just get whispers? Look man, the run, Look man, let me tell you something. The run. So if the love was here, the many way come crazy. That is phone Bone gold taking my apron is on making the best take right now, alright, and yours on my tape. Okay, if you're just joining us, just joining us, we're talking to four and uh Frante's phone Boom Classics on his first record, which apparently as a guy who studied all of his music, I need to revisit. So if if you're in the audience watching the the Usher Root, uh yeah, yeah, experience what's on you like? Yo? That's my y'all gotta do this one. Um, they're they're going to determine the last two. I mean something of the first record many ways? Was I think that one was dope? Um uh. I'm trying to think another one that people would like that well, because I'm trying to think of like songs that were like good. But now even now I think we appreciate it more. The many ways it's just a gorgeous song, Like I just I just think that's just a very well can I can I rock many get the post? Hit the post? This is a question of supreme with phone Bone Classic number one by Usher Raymond the fourth That's right, it's go to make you sire. This is the many ways you need to work on that. All I heard was Usher mownin anyway. I love to drinking baby scorn. I've seen you around my way a couple of times. You must just moving around the way right. I see all the phones my person move for your number. I'd like to get to night so long you do this miss. Some times I'm talking to phone of something anyways to say, I love it. Anyways, girl, you so bad? Yeah, you're surprized. I got commsation. She ain't shacking for the kids that sweetwee can't I swear you're watching? They don't know? Well. That was the Many Ways by ussher Rim and our special guests on Quest Love Supreme. So are you are you one of those people that cringe when you hear your older material or people salibrating over stuff that you made fifteen years ago, like yeah, yeah record now It's like it's not like, what are you thinking of when you I'm gonna like you could have spilled pizza on your shirt and you're like, man, that's when I word, you know, like, what are you thinking of when you hear that one that I had lost my voice? Because I can hear it. I'm like, damn, I was fighting trying to get to that ship. Yeah. So What was it like when you finally got full control your voice back? And I was like, oh, I can talk again. Oh yeah, it was. It was actually after I left New York. When I left New York, then I began to to slowly but surely get it get back. Came to New York to record this record. I've recorded that you wouldn't have your voice fully, did not have my voice. So how long could you sing before the crack starts? The cracks in your voice? You know, ladies and gentlemen, I have never done crack? Um I think you know. Because I started trying to promote the album. You know what I'm saying. I was there's another time that you got you put your bring you the New Edition. But I was being managed by Brooke Payne and whoa Jeff Dyson at the time. Wait a minute, you are a Brook Payne student. Yeah, Jesus Christ, that's that's I wanted. That was doing the break? Wait when was that? No? Okay? So um so now I started performing the records, but every time I hear them songs, I'm like, damn, that's just crazy. You know, how how how far that? Because you're living all of it, you know, and my voice has changed about five different times throughout the entire process. Can't tell you something funny that you don't know, tell me all right. So when I first signed on the first record, I wanted to do an album with baby Face and l A Read, Right, I signed specifically for that reason. Why, Because of End of the Road, because of Bobby Brown. The hero that I my hero was produced by these two dudes, so you didn't see him as like older Bobby Brown. That's it, that's yeah. But they music. They made that music, so that's all I knew. And I knew that baby Face was still doing it. L A Read I didn't know if he was in the studio. I didn't that he had stopped completely producing, but I was like, as long as I can get a record by y'all. So l A. Reid wanted baby Face to work on me, and they were going through, you know, a lot of drama at the time. They were kind of severing their ties or either he just didn't want he wasn't comfortable in Atlanta. And by the way, we talked about this ship. So it's cool. I can just I can tell you this, but it was it's kind of like private anyway, Um, he got mad and he built an entire album with an artist that we know, and he built an entire album for me, and he gave the entire album to that dude. This is like a mirror moment. Who got mad? This is this is baby face was upset and gave a whole album and it's not the other one young guy period in that time? What year I'm sae I can I'll just tell you on the face he was. It was Tivin Campbell was that Can we talk? It was just me And there's a song for your Setler's right there. Take it back to reclaiming. Can we talk? Take that song back? Can we talk? Yeah, don't take about girl Always in my heart, Always in my heart. Damn all those Yeah, he got mad, he was they were just they was fighting in puff and him. They had words or something like that. And then you know whatever, can I ask because he couldn't understand, like why why wouldn't you do Why would you give an album like that to to this dude? You know what I'm saying, Like, you got your own artist and they was having their ship, so he was like, I'll do his album. You know what I'm saying. Wow, all right, can I ask, okay, do you because did you record the songs? And then like just I never got the studio. I never got in the studio with him, and I couldn't understand. It wasn't until um Bedtime. That's that was my first record with him. That was the next album. That was my way. So okay, it was Bedtime presented to you already and it's completed for him. No, it was. It was probably worked on on the spot right in front of you. It was worked on in the studio um, and I was there, and then I came, I went in the booth in there and cut it. Okay, I'm doing it. I don't think it was a song like that he just pitched me. Not. I wouldn't that because I'm doing a journalistic no. No. But I have a theory because I'm very obsessed with the process of how the water just went dry for baby Face after two thousand and one. Really, you know, they're like there's the period the clap with of l a baby Face, and then there's the baby Face by himself ship and then it's like, oh he with the neptunes like And the thing is is that I had a theory that the real l A and Baby Face was as yet because what many people don't know is that, again, these are all my theories. I'm not trying to throw last night, that's exactly, But I'm saying that what many people don't know, especially people not involved in the industry, is that a lot of these times, when you're working with these super producers, you're really just leasing their name. They at workers really mean a person that we know for the right So when you're when you're giving Dr Dre a quarter million dollars for Dr Dre song, chances are is that he has millions and people working like he's there to instruct that. But as far as actually doing the layman's work, I always felt you're crushing me right now. Well no, no, no, again, these are my theories. These are my theories, and I don't want to put you in the position where you have to confirm or deny it. But I'm just saying that when you are between in Baby Face, Ellen, baby Face combined or Solo had at least ten to fifteen bangers per per year, and then everything stopped, and then a scientifically life and everything, but life happens, not life happened. He got a divorce, he got married, all of that ship, and then he probably just wasn't as hungry for it. You know what I'm saying, Like, I'm really great friends now, right, He's the guy that I can call at four o'clock in the morning. He pick up the phone, you know what I'm saying. And I and I've asked, like I'll go back, and I'm listening to all of those old school like well what is old school now? But listening to those wrecks, and I'm like, what the hell are y'all doing? Like like this, there's a feeling of this ship in the mixture, like the like the science of what this was, Like, how y'all were mixing it together? What were y'all thinking? He was like, man, we had that song for like six years that was just sitting in there, like RONI that had just been sitting in there. I'm like, for really, He's like, yeah, man, way before we gave it the Bobby. But next to Prince's genius streak of eighty two, eighties seven eight, I felt like baby Faces output of songs was unparalleled and then it just stops like that, So what do you think it was? Well? I kind of want you to insinuate or not insinuate, just because I I know that Farrell writes all of his stuff and does his work alone. I know Premiere produces all this stuff and like really just solo by himself. I can't even imagine that baby Face havy work ethic where he's up night and day, just effortless turning out hit after hit after like he has thirty five to forty, Like I remember that song. Remember. So what I'm saying is once as yet left, the premises and the divorce and the yeah young versus the Face sword and whatever went down. Come on, man, you're the cat of the Canary. I did tell me. You're not gonna tell me, are you not? I mean I'm saying that, by the way, at that age, I don't think he was thinking of any of that ship. I was just like, I want to get in the studio and actually get one out of him, because I haven't had any record period it. Did you physically see him work? Like does he have a paper independence? That's all I wanted, That's all I wanted. I didn't know if l A baby Face was a like did they just come to you with these songs or was it like you saw them sitting there or this chord? That chord? What do you think? I just I never got the now Rogers and BERNARDA was like it wasn't that he presented the one that I can tell you that was one record that he presented to me, and that's I think that that's what kind of like really made him not funk with me at all period or l A read with regards to me, because he also too he didn't believe in me as nar Ae. He's like, I don't really, I don't really l A l A read baby face He was like, I don't really, I don't get him, and um he presented a record and Puff he he rejected the record and that was it. It was like, all right then I'm not gonna have nothing to do with it at all. How would you feel? I was devastated it. I actually signed the deal to work with those two producers, and I to this day still ain't gotta from him, you know what I'm saying. So together, so Puff oversaw the first album. He made the call in terms of what when EP the first album? Yeah? Got you got? How now how did it go from? Because you know you were talking about when you lost your voice, they were thinking of dropping you. So then the first album comes out and it doesn't do you know, it doesn't sell. I guess, you know whatever, what what did the first album end up doing? I mean, I think and it's probably greatest. It maybe got up to about maybe gold maybe now, yeah, maybe it might be gold. Really that single carry that joint? So how did you go from getting dropped to my way? Like, how did you? Well? I started working with Dallas Austin on my next album, and you know, I bought him a lamber Any because that was with the exchange for doing my album. Damn, how did they They was killing my budget? Bro? I was. I was of that of that group of artists who really you know now, but it wasn't that. It was that that was that was that time. So they had to find ways to kind of move and work their own ship and the artists they just had to absorb that. And plus I knew what it was. We understood and if you think about what you're gonna end up paying a producer, it would be the equivalent of that, you know what I'm saying. So he made money too, right now? He did the album for Yeah, well he was. It didn't happen. So wait, wait, it didn't happen because he and I didn't. We didn't blend. So I was gonna work on this album called a Book of Love with him and with Dallas Auser, and the motherfucker just wouldn't show up to the studio. I'll be sitting there for hours. I'd come there and be sitting in the front. Then eventually I started picking up instruments and start trying to build the album a damnself. This time when he was he was playing with it around that time. I think it wasn't Yeah, but I just think that he really didn't. He didn't he didn't believe in me like that, you know what I'm saying. I think it was more or less of a favorite for l A. And I wasn't a priority, and he was trying to get his label off the ground to around that yeah illegal, yeah, um monica he was. He really just wasn't focused. So instead of us continuing to do that, I mean, it was just disrespectful, like he wouldn't show up to the studio, like, hey man, the session starts at this time, and he was like, yeah, man, you gotta get this dude to chill out, like you know what I mean, I'm a viber dude, you know what I'm saying, Like I like to just do things in the car. I'm like, fun that, man, we're gonna work on that. We're gonna work on the album. Let's do it, you know what I'm saying. So I was like, funking, I'm not coming to the studio. I'm done, and um that was it. That was the history of that. And you know, like in my mind, I'm thinking, like you're in Atlanta. I imagine how the funk I feel, I say, the climax of like the Atlanta movement. Like I'm thinking like it's like the new Motown where you know, TLC is in the house and all this and everyone's that happened. All of that is still true, but the reality is like certain things ain't meant to happen, you know. I mean, I've seen this guy and I was the fuller. I was a very very special artist, you know what I'm saying. Like back then, I had the confidence of like ten billion people. So I'm in, I'm in shut up man. So look he do passed up on me, man, like like he's seen me before I performed for him, and he was like, yeah, give me a call tomorrow, man. You know like that, I was like, alright, cool, you know what I'm saying, I see you again, man, and um, you know so I'm still holding on a little bit of that by you know, sitting in that lobby. You know, it's like, man, I'm not coming back to This explains everything because I'm seeing I'm getting to know you as a person and as an artist. And really, you know, I purposely, especially for this interview. Normally, you know, I'm Google and start renal interviews just to see where you mind. But I know that you have this tireless work ethic about you. And now this is starting to make sense because now I feel like you really got something to prove. Even though yeah, you might be cool with Face and Dallas now and you'll see each other give each other pan or whatever. Um, but now I'm feeling like, oh, way, do they get a little to me. I'm just feeling like the joker now, by the way or what That's another chapter to that that we haven't got to yet. But I'm just saying because I didn't know, I'm sorry, I was. I wasn't even trying to go there. You No, let's go there anyway. I'm just saying that as an artist, I'm thinking that you now, oh wow, you sound like me over there. Go. No, we're not trying to turn this into that. No, it's not the Gossip Hour, it's not not that. But you know, I mean, but there's certain truths that actually make it fun. You know what I'm saying that we all grown. We've passed the now, but we've passed it. So I mean the reality is yeah, yeah, that's cool. Ship embraced the pity. Yeah, okay, so how did so how did you come across the high hat king? I'm sorry, so thanks for the record. Rick Rubin has the loudest scratches on hip hop records, but bar none. Uh, Jermaine dupris high hat that like when you're spending records sometimes your needle can be sensitive to grooves on the record. And Jermaine Duprit, Yeah, it's like it could affect He has the loudest hip hop high hats of all time. I mean, I respect it, but you know, I mean back then was frustrating his health to spendine because the high hats will always skip the records sometimes as well. Anyway, So how did you wind up with Jermaine Dupris. He did a remix for Think of You and that was the that was the beginning of me kind of working with him, and he was like, you know, if you were you know, let's work together. I was like, man, I really do. I think it was like, you really did a great job. He came in the studio, he produced it from scratch and said, we created it right there, you know what I'm saying. And he he was just dope. I was like, yea, man, when I work on my next album, I really want you to I really want you to be a part of it. And you know l A read put us together after Dallas and that was when you were working in l A. We did all that? Any songs with Dallas? None damn okay, yeah, none that came out. You mean like, did we actually eventually I've had a song called Waterfalls versu or whatever. I mean, like, did you ever work? I think he was working with Debor Kilt, not no debl Cox. So there's a couple of records on deborl Cox. They probably slid from my project to her to her project, and I think it was that Montel do do do the babies? No, No, I didn't do the record, but I'm saying I would have potentially had had that song if I weren't around it. And not to say that they wouldn't. You know. He had this process. Man, it just didn't work with me, you know what I'm saying. Anyway, So so I I ended up, you know, being put with j D. And we just started working. I just started kicking it with it. We worked on it in Atlanta in his basement. Oh wow, okay, ye about that manual Seal talking to me about him because he was like I would always see him working with j D. He was like one of my favorite songwriters and what was his process like? So j D had a Manual Seal working at the time, and Kawan Prayer there KP. That name Kawan. Yeah, he's uh, he's KP. You know, not KP. He's independent how he works with for real now but um he um. He worked with Parental Advisory at the time p A. Right. I got their official names. He was the JR. Thank you, okay guy. So I'm back to my quiet place. That's our first lady over there. No, that was gonna be in the graveyard Pepperton, weren't they a R Kelly? Sorry just now so KP. He was over there with me and we just started working on the album, you know what I'm saying. And the rest is kind of like it became history. I just worked day in day now. But j D had such a weird fucking way of working. And after dealing with um Dallas Austin, it was like, you want me to come to the studio and said, why you play video games? I can't do that, man, I don't play in that. I just didn't play video I just wasn't a kid who played video games. I stopped and was like, I can't catch back up. I'm sorry, I put I put the joystick down, so I'm here to work. I was that serious, you know what I'm saying. So I was like, miss, you know, let's pay pool man. You know, at least that's a game that I can play. So we started playing Pool for push ups and ship like that, and then before you know it, I was doing crunches and ship and I spurred for him and got damn six packs so that when we're trying to get you in shape of that ship. But here's this missing good one. So what was the first song y'all worked on? First record we worked on? Um? Oh, man, what was the first one. I don't think it was a song that made the album And I don't think it was a record that made I don't even remember the damn name of it, man, uh the name Okay. I was like, the album is called my Way. The first album we worked on, what's called my Way? But the first song, the first song I do not remember. Yeah, I remember my Way that hit my that was my freshman year of college and you make me want to like it was like the last record of the entire Why is that always because it's always like we're missing something, we need, we need to single, we need a single. Weed was was that thing with someone like we're missing something? I think it was? No, I think it was. My favorite dram was one Day You'll be Mine And it wasn't because the Osley sample. But just like Me? I think just like Me was the first record that we worked on. But what was the song that you were like, all right, I'm bad now now I'm forced to be record with or I think it was nice and slow. That was the one that was like, oh shoot, we got something, but comeback there was another record that we worked on, and um, so, how how is JD directing this? Because I mean, at that point, I'm thinking about strictly from hip hop context. So as a producer, what is this process in the studio? Just hes saitting Mary coaching you on vocals? Yo, I'm so glad. Look I hate vocals. I would be like, all right, he does play games back at this point. Now he does. Now he'll actually sit in the studio with me now, But back then you had to literally like sit in the living room or like his little living room area downstairs in the basement, and they would just play video games for hours. So who's coaching your vocals on this stuff? Eventually it was Manuel and a guy. Uh. This is back when Phil Tan, who was his his engineer. He would he would actually go through a vocal production with me, but um, it was mostly e manual because he would he would put it down piece by piece and and I kind of going and then work on it and we wrote certain things together or yeah, I would basically you know, talk to j D about just different ships and before you know what, he started Right now, I hadn't I hadn't developed my my writing. I hadn't picked up a pen yet. I'm just kind of like talking about things and he's taking it in, writing it, and before you know it, I'll come back to the studio. He'll hit me at three o'clock in the morning, like, come to the studio. I like, savy, I've been. I was out there all day waiting on you to day and produce something. And then you didn't. Are you a daytime studio person at that time? I was, because I mean, if I wasn't still in school, man, like I'm still I'm still in school trying to figure out how to balance between two worlds, and um, you know I yeah, I come out there at three o'clock in the morning, tired as hell, and he want to work. I had to start to go. So you went to physical school like you weren't tutoring the the celebrity. Wait, man, I'm sucking up. No. I was out of school then I was taking But the craziest ship is I was the family driver in addition to being a nighttime artist. So I had to drive my mom to work, drive my girl to wait, was your mom still working? My mother was still working. I had to drive my mom to work. I had to drive my girlfriend to Spellman and then drop my brother. Yeah, drop my brother off, and then get my ass back to the house for just a second. Go pick my little brother up, Go pick my mom up, bring them back home, Go pick my girlfriend up, come back home, and then drive to the studio. I'm glad the story I was the original. You just want to show. You just want more show than uber o. Yo, I'm actually glad you said that because even as at least I'm even as the as an established artists, at least in the eyes of people that don't know the industry, you're still blue collar with it, and you're still like your mom's still keeping the job. She's not like, Okay, I'm managing full time and none of that stuff. Wait's Brooke still in the picture. Brooke is no longer in the picture. I now am Um, I'm just working on album, so I don't really need a manager. My mother she basically, you know, helped me find an attorney that then kind of handled my business or whatever her album to album and um, you know, just kind of focused on once again getting that album, getting that album done. Can you describe Brooke as a person because um, for those that don't know, um, you know, thank god the New Edition movie went down. And I love the way like he was my favorite character in the New Edition movie only because of at least the lesson that he taught New Edition was was basically, I'm gonna teach you how to be professional. I'm not going to make you stars, but I will teach you how to be professional. He's like that uncle that all that granddad that makes you scared because you don't know what the funk he's thinking good and you're like, I just don't want to be disappointed in me, No, little dude. I spoke to him about that whole process, and he like confirmed that he he was like not exactly the black version of what's his name and whiplash, but he did he believed. I know that. Brooke told me that he he's a too much praise is almost damaged into an artist because that'll make them lax. And it's weird that I'm not saying that slave mentality like that like to keep keep the workers uh in in in a post, Yeah, but I mean, but it keeps it makes them work harder, and you know, next to child like Charlie Atkins, like I consider brook Paying one of the greatest or yeah, proprietors of of just that spirit of like when he's working with you, is he strictly just a manager from a manager sent or is he working with you on dance moves? At that time, he wasn't working on choreography anymore. So were you asking to work with you? Or I'm always meeting people, you know, when they just stepping out of the space. I can't get a fucking record from baby Faces in l A, can't get pain that goddamn teach me a step now. But um, I mean he had wisdom, or at least I hope he had wisdom. Yeah, he had man wisdom, but it wasn't that. No, I didn't leave him. What happened is new addition. They got back together and and this is right before everything happened for me. You know what I'm saying. I'm like, and he's like, you know, I'm like, I'm like, you can't leave man, And he and Jeff Dyson was like, we gotta go back and work on this project. I was like, well, maybe I can open up for y'all or something like. He's like, no, I gotta give it my undivided attention as I would if it were you. So I was like, all right, you know what, I gotta respect that and if there's an opportunity for us to work again. And that's when my mother became my manager. Now, yeah, what is that like because you're approaching adulthood? Like, is it easy the Joe Jackson Matthew knows and of it all, Like is it easy to separate the hats of the two when your mom's your manager? Like? Is she traveling on the room with you as your managers are? Like? So, how hard is that? Because you're I mean, you're becoming of age. I'm a grown man in theory because I've always been the manager you're driving people? So how now? But in my mind I'm also too, I've I've elected to be the provider of the family, even though my mother is the protector, right And in many ways I think that she kind of she crippled me a little bit for a minute because my focus wasn't had nothing to do with business, had everything to do with art. And thank I thank her for that because I wouldn't have I wouldn't have established the focus that I have now. If I couldn't have just focused on music, music, music, music, dance, dance, dance, dance, performance, performance, performance performance. If I was always kind of gonna figure out who's trying to take money, where the money is coming from, I would have been petty. You know what I'm saying. I would have I would have lost sight of what what the goal was. And um, you know another thing, my mother never My mother was never the extremely Um, you know, I can't do anything. I can't go anywhere you can't. She let me. I got into ship, you know what I'm saying, and she understood that's just things. That's what men do, boys do that, you know what I'm saying. But if you're gonna do it, do it in the safety of your house. Be protected, you know what I'm saying. Like, Okay, yeah, I'm home, pull up trail what yeh? Don't make me not right now? Okay. So when you finish the record and you're master and your sequence and at this point, are you like, Okay, this is it. I'm gonna show everyone that I'm the ship or no, it's just the work. Ain't even about to accolade at that point. I just want to work. I want to get back on the road. I want to get back out there and perform. I want to just continue to grow. You know what I'm saying, It's like it ain't it ain't got nothing to do with showing nobody up. I'm better than anybody. But it's like, no, it's not over for me, and I'm gonna keep working because I got more to do. I still I still haven't fulfilled what I saw when I was eight. Well, MTV like grasped orty like crazy, because I mean everything every video that I know of was was played ungodly during that point, and I think by this point, you're this is the well no, no, it's just the Merry Usher tour. Was that during that period? Not that? Okay? So what is what is the what is your live show like now? Like? Yeah, my way was like I had a little bit of Philly with me. I had you know, um, let me see that's when I brought it was a little bit of Detroit, remember you know Kern and um vout asked Brittley, they had a Detroit that's some played with Mary A current current was EP four, I mean was m D for um what do they work with the dream as well? I'm not sure if they do or not. Okay, I'm trying to getting figure out who else do they work with? Okay, But anyway, so I had a band and I was comfortable with performing would have band? Um, now are you like you are? Now? Like you're aware and you know what you want to convey? Like who's conveying your ideas? Hear me? That's it? Is he and me? And is he listening to you? And we were in a way I don't want to listen to you and we won. So what what are you trying to? What are you trying to convince? An artist? By this? By this time, feriold, like, what do you At this point, I'm trying to live out everything that goes with this album because it is the first time that I've actually made songs that are relative to my life, what I've gone through, what I've experienced. So now I'm trying to re recapture those moments that you know, that idea it's a little bit it's a little bit country, you know I'm saying, because and I had to deal with what I had access to. But you know, you know, when I came on stage, I had a tribute to Bobby that I did every night. Um, now you you you have Do you have a close relationship to Bobby Brown? Or was it like oh your mind on, hey nice kids like the commercial kids. Now we were cool, were cool? Now you know that was a moment where we weren't cool and it was because he was. He was really, he was really just like he was on the drugs. Man. It was just too much. But okay, So what I'm saying is is we had a falling out. So he tried to fight me and the club and it was and I was thinking, I was gonna ask you, what do you feel threatened you? I wouldn't a threat. I think it was just the drugs. It's just you know what I'm saying. Sometimes you know, it just happened. You know, how do you feel about meeting your artist? Because I have never meet your idols, never meet them, because that was crushed. I was crushed. And I think that he just read me wrong. I'll never forgive my birthday. He showed up to his birthday party that I had in Los Angeles and I introduced. I knew him when I was a kid because because at aj Alexander so he I spent time at his house. I spent time at Bostown for you no, no, no, But for the record, Bobby Brown was like one of the best cooks of all time all right back to the show. So now we I knew him, you know what I'm saying. I drove driven in car with him all kind of when I was kicking it with him, you know what I'm saying. And when I got signed to the Face Records. You know, I was always like a part of the crew. I was a part of the you know, be town crew. And um plus his kid uh Hakim, when his nephew, he went to school with me, so I would always kind of be around with them. But anyway, Um, I had a birthday party and he was in the house, you know what I'm saying. So I got on the mic and I was like, ladies and gentlemen, I want to introduce you to the original King R and B. I said, the original King R and B in respect and at the time scasm. I think he thought I was trying and it was out there like you the original but um, the new king right. So he called me and he was like, it's like that little nigger, he said, for real, you don't get he was like, don't get sucked up or something. I was like, hold up, man, for real like that, so you know what I'm saying, we you know? So I y I kind of like just and then he kind of squared up with me and then they jumped in between. It was crazy, man, and I'm looking at the like, but idolize you. You're my idol, like for real, so you remember that? Like I don't think you remember that. I'm celebrating and my mother and then they trying to pull me out of the place and he like he like he going off on me, and I'm like, Bobby, it's me, like, come on, man, and what years this? What years that when that happens? What year is this? Seventh th this was? This was after My Way. It had been at least two years after My Way, so I predict it's allus seventh Yeah, it was at the Mother damn it after Candy Girl too, right, like decades you can join us, so my Way with that record when just My Way happens and then you do the record, Um, how did you know? Like when did you know you said that you make me want it was the last one you did. Did you know that that one was the hit. It was like, Okay, this is the one or did that just happen? Later? It just happened, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, you know, for me, it was never about to hit record. It was about getting back to the stage. That's it. You would get back to get back to it. I need to get back to the stage. That was it. Rather it was a hit record or not. You know, l A read he had a job, you know, KP. They had a job to bring me the best records and help, you know, kind of tell my story because they knew that I really wouldn't allowing just anybody to just kind of write, you know what I mean, Like we got getting the studio and gotta work on it. But let me ask, I mean, before my before you make me want to when you're listening to the album in progress, what's Ellie Reid saying? We just need that one, that one, that that last record. So even with nice and Slow and in My Way established hits. So now we wanted to come out with My Way. We wanted to come out with nice and slow. My way wasn't even on this you want a nice and slow first. I wanted nicest slow first. So he was like, no, you gotta have an up tempo. So j D he produced this beat and I just rolled with the beat, road with the beat. You know what I'm saying because I can. Then at that point I was like, I'm a right, you know what I'm saying, because it just take him. It just take him a minute to get to it. And Um, he was going through some ship. I was going through some ship in the relationship. We're talking it up and then one day at three o'clock in the morning, he hit me up and I came over and the rest is history. After that record when you went in the eight seven old one that was that was the one who came after that one. Um, how did the Neptunes come to the picture? For um? I think so. I've seen for Real lady by the name of Candy Tooks. She introduced me to for Real when he backed when they were on Future I think it's the name of it. Uh. When they were with So they were Um, there was like studio producers. You know what I'm saying. That I met him, but there was no connection. I actually worked on a couple of songs. Um. I think yeah, I think it was my I think it was before my way, and I had seen him, but I didn't necessary him at the connection, so KP. He began to you know, he came in with these records and I was like, okay, you know, let's let's try to get in with them. Let's try to you know whatever. He was like, yeah, I think I got I got something and um, I think it was I don't know. I don't know if I'm not sure front was was out of now, but he was trying as hard to get that record. He's China's hard to get that record. Yeah, you know, because it was one I think I think it's for eight seven on one that didn't make it sweet Lies. Oh yeah, there's like two songs. Yeah, yeah, I still love that songs. Yeah, man, was it is? It wasn't any truth that you don't have the call was originally for Mike or was that just is that fan fixed that. I don't know. All I know is when I got it, l A it crazy and he was like you gotta cut this racord and I was like, all right, I cut it, no problem, are you easily? The thing is because the the folklore of the Neptunes, especially when they're in glory and their glory period, everybody wanted Neptunes cut. But you know, initially here in the Neptunes it was a hard pill for me to swile. No, it was a hard pill for me to I think the first beat I heard was I Can't Make. I didn't know about s W. I mean, I knew no, but that wasn't like it was I can't make. The mistake was the first Neptune sounding song, and I was like, okay, my first one was Mace. They're looking at me, kay, looking at me. I was like, what in the Hill is like? And it's really sparse, you know, like it it's weird because for the for the folklore of how it took music listeners uh a minute to accept and digest when doves cry, like you'll you'll hear people in hindsight speak of like Warrener Brothers was upset that Prince took the baseline out of it. Na Da da da. I mean, when doves cry didn't feel that foreign to me. But yet when I heard the Neptune stuff, it's like something's missing, like it's I don't know what it is. It's like a lot of drums and they were using and like the stocks that keyboard sounds. Yeah. It was just like I'm not a kind of plastic between them and Swiss like the era of the keyboard beats. It sounds like demos, So like how hit demo on the cassio. It's like, that's so, how are they convincing you? Yo? This is the ship? They didn't. I got it from KP, so I was using KPS ears and when you don't have the call came on. It was it was hard. Pete was got. They played it loud for you. Oh man, that that ship was hard. Another thing for LL's world famous for how he sells you a song. No he did, He wasn't there. KP played the record. He I didn't meet them until after in the studio and I'm saying and then that's when they were like, yeah, we met you before we met you back. So the lyrics on the original memo before you got It, he did it was real like straight shins with little rise in our lives but simple was that. Around the same time, it was another record, Uh, it's sweet Lies certified, Certified happened after that? Okay? That was that? Okay, okay, now, um that was back when he started working with Robin thick because Robin and him worked on that record, and me and Robin had always been like this because I met him, I didn't. I was back when I was like interviewing people and shipped on MTV, and I interviewed and introduced him to to the to the world. I was like, and he's had long he looked like. I was like, man, you look like Jesus what they told me. He looked like, yeah, man. So um well, also we should um know that uh eight seven on one also contains the most unlikely departure sound of Jam and Lewis. I was about to say, yeah, you remind me meeh, because I almost feel like you remind me starts the period of them. I call witness protection Jam and Lewis. Oh no, no, no, let me go back. Y'all. Y'all getting this all wrong because Terry's get this all wrong. Nope, you're getting this all wrong. I gotta stop you. Okay. So a guy by the name of butter It's who produced you Remind Me, and he wrote it, and he wrote it with his sister. So he wrote it with his sister in mind. And I got that record. Wait, this is this is one. This is one Mark, I'm sorry. I'm sorry on another level now, Bill want to smack the black off me right now. But it wasn't but but it wasn't necessarily Um it was his production from the aspect of producing my vocals and also to kind of leading the record. But the record was pretty much what it was. I just it was so comfortable working with him as a vocal producer that I wanted him to be a part of that song. Ok. Yeah, so that's the truth about the record. Butter is the original producer that record. There was an album before eighty seven one that got scrapped because I guess it got leaked on the internet. How much of that actually wound up on eight seven on one and how much of the rest of It's just kind of one, um, because it was a single, was a Pope Colo that came out and then it was back when you could actually put out of and then just scrapping the entire album, right, right, So so that was a single that came out eight eight seven O one. Right, So I worked on a gang of gang of songs I worked on. I didn't know that popp your Collar was an official it was, it was official. This is back when you could send a record overseas, you know what I'm saying, and then that was the they and then they worked from overseason. You just kind of got off of it in America, so it came out here in America. They just dated it real quick and it became a record. It's huge overseas. It's crazy. When I whenever I played the record, how they go crazy. I'm like, I hate this song really, yeah, I mean I love it for the idea of what it represents in my career, but I'm like, I don't want to sing this song ever. Are there any other songs like that you just don't want? No? Not really, I mean, I'm I'm cool, but I mean that's there's certain things that I have tried that works. And I'm like, why the fund did this song work? Because now I got to perform it forever, you know what I'm It was a short lived term. Pop your college feel like it didn't last long enough. Yeah, people don't want to hear that. They didn't they didn't want to hear that one. Here. I was gonna ask you to talk about songs that you never want to perform again, and I was one of those songs. No it's not Oh no, no, you know, and you'll be happy to hear this. You know. I love that record. I think I think that's the one record that I'm like, you do, Yeah, I love it. I love it. It's cool. I heard a story that apparently it was similar to I Guess what what you make? You want to wear? Y'all had finished Confessions and that was the last one, and you felt it didn't fit the record. You ain't have shipped to do with that whole album. But they was like, this is a hit. Fuck it, like, you gotta keep this ship. Well, they brought me the record. It was Shakir and l A. Reid at the time. Yeah, and they were working with um Sean Garrett at the time. So they bring me the record and I'm like, Yo, this record don't sound ship like my record. And I spent an entire however long it took six seven months working on this album. You want me just throw this song on there? He was like, yeah, it's a hit. I'm like, So I took the record and um I played it for KP. I was like, yeo, man, I don't want to do this song, I said, but tell me what you think I should do. He's like, man, you're crazy if you said you're crazy if you don't cut this record. I said, you think so he was like, yeah, man, you should cut this record. It's a hit, it's a smack. I was like, but it didn't it sound like he's trying to be Michael Jackson. You know what I'm saying that I don't. He's like, don't sing it like him? Sing it like you? So who did the demo vocal? Who was singing on? That's right? He was killing me, dude. But I mean, we're skipping records. But I will say that when I listened to Confessions, well, I mean seven oh one questions I saw. But I'm just saying that the way that I hear Confessions Yeah, to me is almost like the movie preview, Like in my mind that I'm stills with throwback. Yeah, so just like okay, you put a little preview at the top, kind of like Snoop's record, the with Rage starting off, Yeah, like okay, there's a little preview what you're gonna get, and then it really starts with That's how I always felt that year was like the sequencing on it was perfect, right because it didn't make sense in theory to have a song like that that had nothing to do with what I was talking about, and I was so like theme oriented because I kind of got into like, yeah, I really want to say this, like I want us to talk about real hard ship, Like let's talk about all this ship that nobody will talk about. It was eminem. I was listening to his albums and listening to his records, and I'm like, how is it that he can take the liberty to just say whatever the funk you want to see on the record and it worked. I was like, I want to do that, and I was a lot of I got one guest, but so then I was listening to country music to and I'm like, it's honesty in country music. They so let's tell stories, like let's just let's just sit around all five of us and let's just talk about all of the ship that has happened to us. And we was all just putting it in the pot, and it was like, that's a song. This is a song, right, then we're gonna do this. We say this, and then you know, well and a lot of it would shared, you know I'm saying because a lot of them stories weren't necessarily mine. You know, I was gonna ask you to talk about John T. Austin man like him as a writer, so John Te as an artist. We worked together when I was younger and um, you know kind of making that round circle back and um, you know, just just finding our way, uh you know through what whatever was Rather it was a contribution as a motivation or either vocal production or whatever it may have been. We really didn't make our connection until um until Here I Stand. Uh, it was on Here I Stand that we really like he did this song from me cause something special that I mean, it might not be a hit, but it really is something special. Like you gotta go back and listen to the album like people people. Yeah, so just give the no. Well two things. One it's listened to you like describing stuff. I'm now realizing most of my favorite Usser songs are always the jams that like, we're not singles. So like my favorite jam of confessions is followed Me, Like that's the fucking one. Yeah, I mean I mean the other songs. I mean it's so follow me is Um that's the market for two artists though, Like yeah, it's never the hits, it's the filler that, but it was j It was so strategic, you know what I'm saying that in l A was a master at that ship, rather it was in Atlanta, or rather it was put record man. He's the greatest record man? And is it? Because but you're also on Arista Records, So do you have any relationship to Clive Davids what's whatever at that time? I mean you were on that was the record at that time, But I was L A. Reid's artist, you know what I'm saying. So there's here's the great here's the greatest reality. That was the greatest moment and the worst moment that could ever happen to L. A Read because because L. A Read's ambition was to come to New York and to leave the legacy of what Atlanta had created. And while there was some there was some great ship that happened in it, I think that that legacy belonged to him, and I think that he should have never left Atlanta because Atlanta lost everything when it lost L. A Read. It gained a lot in terms of confidence because Atlanta ain't ever lacked in confidence and being able to kind of be installated by its own world. And it's just this this inflated sense of delusion, that that that comes from that place that makes whatever you say the ship, then you believe it, you know what I'm saying, being as though he believed in you from the very beginning. Like what is your relationship with him? Like is he the Barry Gordy father figure that you kind of didn't have or like, or is he just really it really depends on what day, you know what I'm saying. But he's but he's he's not. He's never really mad at me. You know what I'm saying. I don't really give you a reason to be upset with me and then hold onto it, you know what I'm saying. I just seen him in a spin class and in Los Angeles, he sat next to me. I was busting his ass. But um, you know, we we have a real odd relationship because you know, in his transition. Um, I've always wanted to be supportive him, and I've always listened him up because I believe in supporting you know, black executives and also to being supportive. Now I had a deal. This is the craziest. This is how much I believe in supporting black like business and also to black entrepreneurs. So I had to deal with Clive Davis, like I actually formed my own relationship with Clive, and he had actually supported a lot of my business, a lot of my business venture. You know, I wanted to have a record label, of course, I mean, who wouldn't give me a record label with all the money that I made for him? You know what I'm saying. But but the point was he he probably should have been the person to have collected or either been the recipient of Justin Bieber. But I took him to l A Read because the legacy of what that represents needed to stay intact, you know what I'm saying. So so but but but greater than that, it's like, I just think he should have never left Atlanta, man, you know, and I know it's hard because Atlanta's you know, if you look back at it now, it's like, damn, well, I want to be able to do more, So I gotta go to l A. I gotta move other places. Miami. Yeah, but he had it the last thing he worked on. That was the last record he worked on. It should be noted that Um Confessions also represents to me, probably the last product that people purchased the last blockbuster, yeah, because I mean at this what was the final numbers? Like eleven million? Okay, okay, okay. I know in hindsight it probably sold eleven twelve million, but in the States. All right, listen, I'm just saying that at the time Wing Confessions is out in you know, on wax with two thousand three, two thousand four, you know, there was a nine next to that triangle in Billboard, which you know after that period, after two thousand four, it's a rap like people are now like the internet is or with uh Spotify, and you know, I think maybe it was Nellie and me that was it. It was the last. But did you expect for you to be the final? That final, like in the final tornado of what we know as the music business, the old music business, like you're the you're the period at the end of that sentence, straight up, I think that all things right are inevitably going to come to an end. Nothing is gonna last forever. And I think that record companies really did take take for granted the uh, the potency of what was getting ready to happen. I think they looked at it as all right, we'll get you these free goods because it just gives us an opportunity to exploit and promote, you know, our product. But didn't realize that, you know, and they this was crazy. I can't remember the time when they were taking the meetings to go to go to Aristair and other record companies to try to partner with them in front of it. They wanted to partner with them, and they were like, no, we don't want to partner with you. We have our own solution. You know, we're going to continue to create content. You guys, just do your thing. You know, it's just a little server, what you got, whatever it is, it's done. It's gonna die, right right. It's like now it's done. Okay, So now how do they feel to be the last? That's the question you asked? Right, Well, not that, but like at the rate where it's like, okay, it was seven million nounced, not million ounce eleven or crap, now it's thirteen million. What are you feeling pressure? Pressure to live back up to What is that like the pressure of living up to that? Like did you expect this album to sell thirteen million? I didn't expect to sell thirteen million, you know, but I but I expected to you know, try to speak to the next chapter of what my life was, because everything had been about creating the chapters of what it was, not to go back to what worked before. You know, even that meant that meant you know, not working with some of the same producers, you know what I'm saying, and leaving the door open for a new opportunity, a new a new story. So when you have a record like that, one thing that I've always wanted to ask, like, there's you talk about the pressure, but is there a point where you just have just like I guess, kind of common sense where it's just like, you know what, this is never gonna happen again, Like kind of like you know, we talked about prints a lot where he had Purple Rain and he's performing for like a bunch of white audiences and like that, he's doing stadiums and you know, all this ship and he tells his band like listen, y'all just soaked this up now, hippie. Yeah, like this ship is never gonna happen again. Like do you have that thought of like there's no way artistically I may top this album, but sales wise, like who then is gonna sell thirteen million albums? Twice. Yeah, if there's anything in hindsight that I do wish is that I would have exploited at that moment a little bit more why I was happening. How so, what would do I mean, just more business more. I was trying my hardest to just kind of build a conglomerate around me, you know, and probably made some decisions being overly ambitious and losing people who were very, very important in the structure of who I was. But also too, I was moving into a space where I begin to care more about business, and I had a better understanding and comprehensive, comprehensive you know, idea of how the industry was growing, and I needed like mine thinking thinkers or people around around me, and you know, you know, I just but I would have. Man. I can remember the last show, the last show for Confessions. I was on the Truth tour, had Kanye West opening up for me, and I um, I was in Puerto Rico and I had this promoter he was like, Yeah, you gotta come to South America. You gotta you know, you've done Europe, You've done America. You know you gotta do Australia. You gotta do South America. Gotta do Asian and I was like, man, I'm really tired, Like I really have bust my ass and I work hard, so you know, I was having really really, really really bad back problems. So I was like, I gotta just I gotta go sit down in the data. I don't wish I would have kept going ship, but I mean, and my numbers are good, you know what I'm saying. But but but that moment and what that meant, you know, it was it's it's actually it is my personality, you know what I'm saying, Like I'm I'm never the guy who was going to rest in the success of the moment. I just can't do it, you know. I mean, I'm not I'm never. Um, I don't want to be complacent. I have become a little bit complacent in times around, you know, the type of the type of working focus that I put around what I was doing and used other aspects to just kind of you know, do creative ship. But for the most part, I never I can't just rest in a moment. I'm like, Okay, so what's next, and like, wait a minute, let's exploit the ship out of this moment, this moment. Let's let's go build a clothing line. And it wasn't two infessions by Calvin ConA, Right, but wait, I mean how much more could you exploit it? Because the Confessions six singles? Seven singles? I mean in terms of music, yeah, I mean I wasn't going to create another album, but I could have. I could have went to si I never I have never toured South America never. I have never. Guess what, let's go to South America? Have you ever sold? What are the continents that you haven't done? Having to Australia either stay don Australia tons of time and then you went to Man. I know you went for your own but Jeff, you've done Africa at all? Yes, I did Africa. Did to Africa. Um, I'm not really toured Asia. Um what's your what's your favorite places to travel? Like as far as like you get excited to go, like, what's a good city? Like me? Major cities suck? Major cities suck? Well, I know that simply these you can kind of get cities are the best cities. I think the routes, don't overthink it and we just have fun. That's something really incredible about Paris, man, Like, I really do enjoy Paris, And once I got married, man, I begin to enjoy all the places that I that I go more because now I got a significant other that really does understand how to enjoy life and how to make sure that I am, my kids enjoy life. So your your family travels with you on the road, now, yeah, well they did, they don't anymore. I actually haven't traveled in a long time, bro, Like it's been a minute since I've been on tour. Uh And the last one that I went on, they were with me. But um, yeah, yeah, it's it's there's a handful of places like and I'm really looking forward to going to Zanzibar. I love Africa. Um, let me see, uh, Marrakesh, I really I really enjoy it there, Cuba, Cuba, Son, Cuba later right now always, I mean even then, there's so much I know, But I mean like now, not later, right because yeah now, yeah, right now. If you're just joining us, we're talking to us, your Ramond, the family man who is here to go to Now I'm playing, Um, I feel like I would be remissed if remiss, I'm sorry, there's no tea on remiss, boss Bill, So good, bro, we've got you. I was remissed she missed me, that she missed me, I left again. I was remissed. Okay, that was fantastic side side and knew it about your your spouse. Um, any anytime I'm in Gracie's presence, there's not twenty people that I run to and point that your wife is Benita apple Bum. Absolutely she hates great, great, great Gracie used to be my product manager at Universal, and come on, dude, I mean I feel like it's a badge of honors. As far as being I mean so so just playing. She was the one. Literally, yes, she's literally the person inspired. She has a lovely backside well as a woman. I would just like to say, I know you removed the pick, but I saw the pick. I appreciate it. And but she obviously she's artistic. It was artistic. I'm saying it wasn't the fool. So what's crazy is that I got all that's that, that grief behind it, But you know it's it's okay, we appreciate it. I mean, yeah, I'm not even playing the just but like no, I've worked with Gracie for the longest and she's one of the like, I think she's one of the best things to happen to you. I'm in love with my wife. We love your wife too. Respect Yeah, man, what did you learn from the first marriage going into the second marriage? And this is also the divorced clubs here, so you yeah, we got to come on. What did I learn? I mean my pay as this in my next album. No, but I mean it's like you can't write a book on that ship, you know what I'm saying. No, I heard Raymond versus Raymond, you know, I mean, well, yeah, can you get too confessional? Like now, what is here my dear mean to you? As far as everything, everything, the honesty and the music is is beautiful. I mean, it's it's the it's the curator and the holder of our greatest emotions, you know what I'm saying, Both good and bad, you know what I'm saying. And there's a lot of people are hurting or and a lot of people that are looking for guidance in music, and we don't realize how much like one simple message. You know, No, it might not sell a whole bunch of hours, but it could be one person's life that that ship just you know, says or one person that's just like trying to figure out, Man, should I do this? Should I be here? How should I be living my life? And that you know? But um, yeah, man, you can't. You can't overdo it at all. Be honest, be truthful, the truth when you talk about you know, in papers. He was like, you know, I damn lost my mama. What did your mom think about your first wife? Did you get And it is the reason I'm asking this. Did she give you the like, no, don't do this? Like what did she mean much? It's the funniest ship in the world. Is how we could go through all this ship? Right? My mom? She she wouldn't show up at my first wedding that I canceled. She wouldn't show up at the second when she didn't sunk with my ex wife. She don won't have nothing to do with her, but she didn't want to have something to do with the kids. And then they fuck up and they fucking end up best friends. I'm like, so your mom and the ex wife are now cool. Now they're cool. I don't know if they best. They got their own odd relationship, but they but they but their friends from the from the perspective that she at least talks to her now and they actually are cool, which which is healthy. I mean some progress. I mean that's a lot for her too. Man. She like she like nails, you know what I'm saying, Like, boy, yeah, I was funny. Always wonder who's harder? Like she is? Absolutely your mom? Was she very I mean I'm a grown ass man. She can't really you know, it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter, no better. But yeah, she's gonna always be extremely protective of me, probably too. You know what I'm saying. Well, I know you, I know your opinion game is okay, not to play on the punt of confessional, but I'm sure by this period at least between the period of Here I Stand, Raymond Versus Raymond Versus and and the four albums that uh that just real quick here I Stand, I'm you know, I'm making like a big these are big words to me. That is his secret life of plans. Like yes, I agree, yeah, like that was And so I wanted to hit on that a little bit because to me, that was the record and it's just from outside appreciate like because you kind of did like you were doing like some E d M stuff. Well, I think that was. I think before that you had a couple that DJ no, that was. It was after that it was there was none of that. That record was pure. And if there's any did you rush it? Because my when I first got I think I got service with the white label. I don't know if this ain't sex or I got service with the white label. This ain't sex was on it, right, and then that got can't. And it's not that I rushed it. It's like they had an idea and right first correct, Yeah, they understood what it was that worked. I was being honest and where I was so not being considerate of what I knew would work. I went with what I knew was real. So I mean that's a compromise. And and yeah, it didn't sell as many albums, but it's the most truthful album that I think I have in terms of a cohesive thought from top to bottom. It's honest. It's like and it's probably my vulnerable it's it's my most vulnerable title track as a mother. Yeah. Yeah, man, that's the one where you were talking about songs and lyrics moving people. I think I thought about here I stay in. I was like, it wasn't in terms of it wasn't cool to have a wife, you know what I'm saying, And at that time, and I was like, but I do. And if you're don't funk with that, then that's cool, you know what I'm saying. But eventually you're gonna get it. You're gonna get that party because you can't party forever. You're gonna eventually have to go home, and you want to go home with somebody that you want to be with. The ladies got it because they wanted it, well some some of them, and then some of them just was like, I don't want you to be married usher, especially the herd. Yeah, and you know the reality of it that you know that that marriage and that relationship you know was going to come to it in or world was but it served this purpose in my life, and I think I became appreciative of that, you know what I'm saying that no matter what my mother was attempting to tell me, and a lot of people were trying to tell me about that, I think a lot of it had to do with my lack there of a father, you know what I'm saying. Like, when I got into the idea of what I didn't want to be. I did not want to be a person who would just you know, I'm saying, just roll out, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, anybody could do that. But you know, and I tried. You know I'm saying, I tried everything that I could before I decided to, you know, throw in the towel. I mean, should I even try it? Afterwards? Probably broke a lot of girl's heart. Still sucking around, but you know what I'm saying. But you know, it's it. Yeah, it was. It was a phase that that needed to happen. So it was a part of the evolution. And then in that I begin to understand what I really wanted and the kind of partner that I needed and the kind of support that I needed for my life. She showed up. Yeah, when I wasn't even look into it. It's just as I prayed this, here's the reality. You know. I was going through a lot, you know what I'm saying. I was like, here's at the point where I was like living out of my office, like I never want to go home. I just wanted to just like just eat there. You know what I'm saying. I didn't want to go home because what you just didn't want to face that, like being alone or it's just I just I didn't want to. Yeah, I didn't know. I didn't want to be there. I just did not want to be at the crib by myself. I just was fucked up, man. I was like, I wasn't working at that time. I was like just out so yeah. But but then you know, after I got a divorce, it was like, man, like I put it all on the line, you know what I'm saying, and and this is the right thing to do. I did it for all the right reason. I wentn't trying to get like some odd respect for what I was doing. I was just doing what was honest and what was about the art. And I began to understand the idea of the art at that moment um. But I didn't want to. I didn't. I didn't want it, you know what I'm saying. I didn't. I didn't want to face none of it because I felt like, I don't know, man, I felt like, should I just put my neck out there way too much? It didn't work, we didn't jail. It was really really public, you know what I'm saying, And it was what it was. But anyway, I see my story. So my grandmother was like, you know, you should just you should pray. I was like, what I pray for? She's like, I want you to pray for grace. And I was like, Okay, I'm gonna just pray for grace because this moment is just hard to get through this, you know what I'm saying, Like, I just it's a lot, and I pray. And she showed up. I don't have a good sound effect for that. That's all I got. That's all I got loaded. I can't. Yeah, I can't. Oh god, um I got what. They don't make a sound? Well, here you go. Um Kelly, well you will destroy you. You mentioned him earlier, but you know, I feel the significance of you being behind uh want to want to pop music's biggest stars and the route that you took him bieber Velly, I mean not since Marie started taking new kids on the block in working straining their career. How did you manage to gain the trust of the beavers and have them listen to you and and for you to take them because you know, sometimes when you get an artist, it doesn't necessarily you know, work out as planned, Like if you if you could look at all the artists that have Oh, I have a new protegee and you're gonna you know, sometimes it just doesn't work. And there was a war from what we heard between you and Justin timber Lake to where's he gonna go? Where is he gonna go? Right? Yeah, wait, Timberlake was in the picture. There's a lot of people who I did not know this. There were a lot of people who had interest in Justin. I think that you know Schooter, you know, once he found Justin online, he began to kind of shop him around Atlanta, you know, because he wanted to get with the specific type of artists from Atlanta. He wanted to have like some credibility. And I was at the top of the list. But he and I were at odds. He and I. We had had just me and Scooter. I ain't no Justin yet, so he and I were at odds. But there was a conversation about this kid that school was shopping around. You know. You know, they say success has a million fathers. There ain't enough people that I could think, you know, right, and failures an orphan. It's not enough people. I never heard of the idiom and my wife, Oh, success has a million fathers and failures Orphan. This is literally the first time I ever heard that term. Yeah, because something you gotta sound effect for that someone feel I feel like someone failed me by not giving me that I learned on. So wait, what is it? One more times as fathers and he he is an offer? Okay, I'll marinate on that. No, but um, you know, he and I really didn't. We went, we went seeing eye to eye and it was over some sis like fifteen thousand dollars and some shooting, some stupid ship like that. It happened back in the day when he was promoting clubs and so you had a relationship with Scooter before. I had a relationship with Scooter Away before. Oh what was he like? Who? He worked with your main dupri and he also to work with Ludicrous go back and look at it. So he's from Atlanta. He was in Atlanta. I think he was at Memory at the time. I've only heard of Scooter once Justin came on the scene, So I didn't realize that he existed as a business person before. You know, yep, so, but he was actually managing an artist by the name of Asta Roth at the time. So little College Pennsylvania. But still so he introduced Asta Roth and he had this kid that he was interested in, but he didn't really know what to do with him. So he was, you know, kind of shopping him around. He had justin in interested in him. You know, they were trying to get the kid, and he was like, what I really want to you know, I really want to funk with usher. So I think that Um it was Terrence Carter, who was my road manager at the time. My homeboy was with me, Keith Thomas. Um, Sherry Hughley or Sherry Riley. Now, by the way, incredible book Exponential Life. She just introduced that book. I wrote the ford and it to y'all. Y'all check that out. But um, exponent Exponential Life anyway, Um, no, Exponential Living, my bad anyway. Um, all of these people are like, you need to meet this kid, and I'm like, well, who is he there? Like, you know, he's he's just a special kid and everybody's trying to get at him. He's you know, he's a little white kid that school to guy and everybody love him. I'm like, all right, man, look I said, you know, I'm cool, man, I'm just I don't want to be in business with dude, because I'm just you know, we we just had words. We almost came to blows one time because we just kind of were angry at each other. So, um, I decided that I was going to know. I was going to studio and this little kid comes out of the studio at j D's studio and I'm like, okay, what's something. He's like, I'm I'm the kid they've been telling you about. I'm Justin Bieber. I'm like, We're nice to meet you, Justin? He said, can I sing for you? I was like, no, you can't. See that's how it always should work. So I said no. I said, but what I will do is I reach out to your manager and make some time maybe to meet you sometime. Cool. He's like yeah, I said, if it's meant to happen, then I'll see you again. He's like okay, cool. So I went to the studio and UM, you on really seeing him again? No? Yo, that's real? Yo. I did. I didn't because I still was like, you know, I don't want to. I don't even want to invest in it. But it was it was two things. No, it was it wasn't that I didn't plan on sing him again. I didn't plan on rushing to hit uh to to call Scooter. Because I seen him and I saw it, I was like, I was like, no, this kid got something. So I was like, but I'm good. So I went in the studio and I was like, you know, I mean it was that kid and they were like, oh man, that's some some artists and Scooter guy. I was like, y'all gonna do anything with that kid? And the like no, man, just I was like cool. So then I walked out after my session and um I played because I didn't looked. Once I saw the kid, I went and looked him online. I was like, oh, this kid he got something. So then I called my homie. I was like, yeah, y'all all right, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, So I went home showed it to my wife at the time, and Perry Reid was there, so she was like pel She was like, are you crazy? Have you lost your mind? I was like, I don't really with him like that, you know I'm saying, I just I don't even want to get in the business because it's gonna She's like, if you don't sign this artist, you are the stupidest person ever. Are you crazy? So I was like for real? She was like yeah. I was like, I get it. She said, yeah, you can get past all that. You should get past out that for this artist because he needs you. So I then reached out to Scooter Um. He was like, all right, cool, we had to fly fly his mom, him and his mom back down to Atlanta. Um. He came to my studio the next day, he saying for me, and I was like, you know, let's take a picture. Because it's be a part of history. It was intended for it to happen, then it will happen, right. He's like yeah, cool. So that night I was like, listen, the ain't nobody else that you could have this artist work with this artist with I'm the guy period. You know if you it was like, well, I got Justin and you know interested they put, you know, put something. The day I said, I'm not gonna put nothing on the table. I said, it's on you to make the right decision, but be clear, that can only be one justin straight up? Wait can I ask? But no, that's really and I'm I'm I'm literally going against my my rules of this show to not be sensationalist and gossipy. But I never asked, like, what is your standing with your contemporaries, Like I'm just saying with us, just like, okay, I'm I'm down with common, I'm down with most and you know my contemporaries like are you are you beating with Chris Brown? I gotta beet with How could I be? He's I was about to say, I mean, come on, like, who else is singing and dancing like Usher? Not just like I don't know what you're I've never seen you and together or so there's there's always those stories, those things that people say, but damn, I wish they had had been smarter, been at the right time, not passed up on this artist, not do this thing, not do that right. So there's one thing in my career that I definitely regret, one thing, and to this day I battle with it, which is why I always show support for this artist whenever he asked, and I'm I've always kind of like it ended up being more of a relationship. There's a reason why I'm drawing it out like this anyway. But um so um Mark Pitts comes to me and he's like, I got this artist uh, and I'm like, well, you know, I'm just really focused on myself and he's like, I know that, but I got this artist that I really think you should see and I want him to be your first artist. So I'm like, all right, well, let me see him. So his manager comes in. They have him, you know, they showed him to me. I meet him. I was doing this album at the time. They want him to perform on this album. I was like, okay, cool, Yeah, that's cool. But I just I didn't get it. It wasn't that I didn't get it. I was I was a bit like I'm gonna be honest. I was intimidated. I want to get the sound hold on listen. I was intimidated by what it meant to move to the place of mentoring artists and not be the artist. So I felt like I don't want to funk that up, and I don't want to stop what I think I'm doing right now and do it too early. It was it was a mature thing, but not clear, you know what I'm saying. And then I went to I went to my team and I was like, I really want to work with his arts, and he was like, I don't think you should do it. I don't think you should. You know, you don't think you should work with this artist? Um and then he left. Wait whoa, all right, I got my sound effect? Really who Chris Brown? Wait, he's Mark Pitson's artist. He was, He was a Mark Pitts artist at the time. But I just think, like, when I think about all that, if you had a chance to do you even think you would have had an impact. I'm just trying to tell you if yeah, well that makes sense because Chris Brown really was like the next and thenage of Bobby Brown. He Bobby Bage, so it's like he's the next No. That would make you know, it makes sense why they would reach out to you Tube, I get it. Wow, but I passed man, So if so, had you Okay? Now in hindsight, do you feel you were why? Because here's the thing. I think that every artists has something to go through, all right, because if you even look at the success of what Justin is right, because they went through similar ship. But but the reality is having the right people around, having the right support that changes the dynamic of how it pans out. You're an anomaly though, because I justly it does. But it's one more I don't believe. I mean, I don't believe. I don't believe an artists being I don't believe an artist being their own managers. And I know there's a bit. I know there's a grip of artists that are in my inbox, in my d M, on Twitter and all over. There's a ton of ship that I do. I wasn't the four things in my life, and I got lucky with it. And I'm not saying I'm responsible for Jill whatever, but it's like Jill slum village below. I don't Maybe there's one Cody, I guess, but I've made a life of avoiding that moment. Why are you smiling? I'm smiling at Bill. Please don't look at me like yeah, because Cody was a real person. We were just like yess Cody, No, no, no, I mean, I don't know what the level of it's intimidating to get out of the comfort zone of where you are and begin to have the responsibility of other people. Man. It's as I just think, artists make horrible business Like you're either going to be a business person or you're going to be an artist and listen off off the heels of having three artists that didn't necessarily fly. You know what I'm saying. I you know, I was I had it was an artist by the name of Melinda Santiago, a group by the name of Um One Chance, Enrico Love. Those are my first three artis. I was about to say I knew that and think I mean that that ended up paying out to be a great investment because I felt something different than him. I was like, I just think that you were an incredible writer, Like, and this is not a discredit to who you are, but you you really do know your way around melodies and you know your way around storytelling, so you should be a writer. He was like a set of artists, It's like, let's let's just let's focus on So we got him a publishing deal and yeah, okay, So that's why I feel like, had you taken on Chris, do you think he would have listened to you? I do you know the Prince actually went on record to you know, and and and Louve his death. Uh, he kind of sort of went publican saying that he really wanted to mentor Chris Brown and you know, but I don't know, I don't think Prince would have. I don't think that's too far. I just feel like there's a difference between generations, and the post can't tell me nothing. Syndrome would have would have would have been like his Bobby Brown. I mean, like that would have been you know it was, I still think, but I think Bobby Brown was the aggressive. It ain't a matter of was. I still am And that's why I'm consistent, and I am a great friend of his even through the complication and all of the ship. So do you mentor him now? I mean as much as he'll allow, Like who are you close to now that you're not attitude business wise? That they you know you're there? One am called like yo man, like I need some advice on something like who? I mean it could be as a ton of like business people and uh young entrepreneurs, people whom I just make myself available for his reality, Right, if we really want to begin to remedy some of the issues that we have, we got to be more disciplined ourselves to be people who share high information. I had this conversation with everybody, and I ain't talking about just mentoring people in your company or because it's a company duty and responsibility to do that. Ship No, find people to mentor and talk to them, bring them together, create groups, talk to them as a collective because you got insight and off of that, you know what I'm saying, I'm I'm really tired of the reality of of what we are, what we are, and how behind we are, and the fact that we don't allow ourselves to come together because we just don't come together. We're not community, We're not community or oriented. We don't share. We think that it's better to continue to climb individually and not as a collective. Okay, I think now I will insert the modern day a t L question that I was kind of saving as a snowball earlier. But the climate that is Atlanta now which very very active almost at it's at least it's commercial peak. I don't know about creative peak. Of course that could be agism, old ages and me speaking. But are you are you the character and things for all apart that is looking at the land and kind of have a single tier in your eye, like what's going Are you a stranger on the strange land which is euro Yeah, when you see the environment that is Atlanta now, like are you relating to the stuff. Do you want to be politically correct and be like, well, Quincy Jones, uh, you know has embraced another generation, or like, what is your feeling towards at least Atlanta? Why don't you just say it exactly? What say it? Nig? What does this? What? Like? Just say it? Like? I answer to how do you feel about the ever changing environment of what Atlanta is now compared to what it was twenty years ago? By the way, it's always been that it's just needed a curator, a person who could bring it all together and create some integrity in it. And um, well, what I was leading to is are you now el A Reid and are you realizing that you now need to be l a read of Atlanta? Or is that too a lofty of an idea. It's not too lofty of an idea, because in theory, yeah, that might, that might have some I may there may be some influence in that to the people who are looking at what my career is. But what I'm talking about is more significant than just being one man who comes and takes advantage of all of the talent that's there and brings it together. I'm talking about a collective. I'm talking about a group of people who decide that our business is important, of a group of people who understand that our culture is important, and there's a way to introduce it. And yes, it does take right, but no, but it starts with a collective of people being on the same page, because it ain't nothing worse than having a plan. And then you have other people compromising your efforts, which is gonna be the case period, But it can't happen from inside. You know what I'm saying. If you have, if if we can just come together, man and just start like supporting each other, not just getting on the record with each other, but like really helping and engaging each other, and understand that the idea of growth isn't sharing. If you got five, if you've got five hundred thousand dollars or two million dollars, that ain't ship. Man, Gotta you gotta tell these kids, like, look, you think you got something, but you ain't got nothing yet. It's not until you begin to bring all that ship together, aggregate and then and then build. Are they listening to you? They slowly but surely listening. But I'm only one person. I'm only one person doing my part in it. And in a perfect world, but you need gathering. Who are you gathering two in a perfect world? Who what figures are you gathering at least locally? Two? At least make this a semblance of a reality. It's a common conversation with everybody that I come in contact with. It ain't just one person. It's people who are in business. That's the one thing that Atlanta has to have right in order to be respected as a major city and in business and culturally. It has to bring all of those elements together in order to make it. And that's oddly what l A. Read was able to do at that time. The dynamic of what it is and what success is it's changing. It's changed. So now you gotta figure out, Okay, you know, do you get politics? So it's a matter of getting Cassine Read in the room, you know, managing to get yeah. Oh so wait a minute. That was a paradigm shifting. Because there's a lot of property he has, spig Yeah, is he a presence or is he just a studio in Atlanta? Not? Tyler Perry is most certainly a presence, but there's a more active in the community. Yeah, or you don't know, I'm he know who, No, I ain't gonna buity my tongue. I'm not that guy. I no, no, I ain't that guy in the community. So looking at the right to make sure your jaw is not going to stop it. No, no, it's it's not that there's a certain expectation that comes with stepping into that space, and no one per someone wants to compromise what they have in order to do it. So it's like, yeah, getting people to understand that as a collective, if you come together, if you bring it all together, you're stronger and then you don't have to compromise anything, right, But it's that one person who's going to step out and take the chance with the other person and who's But why not it be? Atlanta is the home of like black wealth right now in that entertainment still and I just mean in the entertainment type way it is is not in an opportunistic way because you see a city that's growing like we we can. I mean, but is it really you feel there's red the in Atlanta right now? As it? At least I was pid. I thought between between eighty four with people Bryson and and and Cameo and that class of Atlanta and brick like the arms between that first migration between seventy nine and eighty four, of all these artists moving to Atlanta and too when you guys were the new Jacks between eight and I always felt that there was a community like Eric Sermon's like, you know, so I'm moving to Atlanta like everybody was moving to Atlanta. Is there a community still or is it just like every man for itself and every man for himself because there's no formula, there's no business. Um, there's no Clarence Avon. Mhm. Okay, I'll straight up ask you, do you desire the stress and the headaches and the gray hair and the sacrifice of your personal career to try to be that Clarence. I'm not trying to be Clarence. We can explain who Clarence avan is Taboo Records, This is your shlf too, and Clarence Avant was the guy who was ahead and finish. No. I mean, well, you know my regret about my my regret about him is that I feel as though the way he was painted in the documentary uh Searching for Sugarman, Searching for Sugarman, really painting him in a bad which I feel his you know, when we get to the Jam and Lewis episode, you know you'll see how important next to Don Cornelis and bad Berry, Gordy he was like one of the most important and stan Lathan like, you know, he's part of the power four that actually had power and resources in the sixties and seventies to make ship happen. And so you know, if you had a problem, you went to Clarence Avons to smooth it out. You know, he's almost like music industries Jesse Jackson or Al Sharton like be to go to guys to smooth ship out. When everybody comes to Atlanta to take the piece of it, but they don't leave the structure, it helps to continue to build it. He's learning the Black Lily lesson. He's at least more people at least more people stay and build their wealth in Atlanta, because that's like one of the you know, that's the difference between in Atlanta, because now I'm here in North Carolina might be the new spot for sports people, it's Phoenix, like I mean, I now, like there was a point where Atlanta was like the place to move, but then you know it got overpriced and now it's hard to maintain a life there now here Atlanta, people going elsewhere, to the Carolinas too. You know, to start this is happening? Does that happening? So you know it's I know, I know it's sacrificial. So in some sense, yeah, where do you where do you see? What's your next step? I'm not saying your last step, but what's your next step? Uh? Are really do want to make an album with y'all quest lost about it? Yeah? I feel okay for those that don't know. Um, when when the Roots do the Roots picnic uh our annual festival in Philadelphia, UM, we like to do collaborative, community based projects because you know, we feel as though that's really the spirit of Philadelphia, the collaboration spirit. That's where the Roots really shine. We're working with other people. And UM, I'll say that all the collaborations that we've done year after year, like we've done John Legend one year, we did Naughty by Nature, one year we did Public Enemy. We did not as we did Wu Tang. I mean we did the usual suspects. Um, when we did our ninth year, we wanted to I wanted to pull kind of a non predictable move, and for me that move was too you know, I was like, we should get a singer. You should just shock everyone, like who's that singer that people be like, wait, what the hell is this like? And we realized that Usher is really the voice of I mean kind of the voice of his generation that really speaks to people. And so it seemed kind of weird on site, but then it started to make sense and you know, I just feel like there was there was raised I mean, you even kind of reached your eye brothers like what I did. I was like, I should had the roots pick nap. But then when the when the when the music started rolling, everybody was like it was like a shock to your system, like, oh, yes, me because us you got jams, you know what I mean. And I ain't saying that just because you know you're sitting here. I just think that there's a revolutionary sound that compliments all of what you've been building, and I really feel like I'm the voice to carry it out. I feel like there's a mission that is bigger than all of the ship that I've done in the past. Damn. Now, I feel like but it's not it's not pleasure, it's not pressure, it's it's pleasure. Like you really should understand that it took all of that to get to this place where I'm open enough and I'm capable of carrying out what needs to be done and said, both as a standard of business and also to a standard of music that leads to the next chapter. It has textures of our roots, Africa, Cuba, percussions, music, time, the reality of all of what that is, and then also to the truth in it. It's almost like a project that's like the songs and um uh songs in the key of Life, like it's it's gonna be something incredible. I believe it. This is the record. I think it's a record that I think it's a record that we're gonna work on. I mean, but it's going to happen naturally. I think that we've been we've been worked, you know, working together, rocking together. But and now we get into a place where we're communicating. This is communicating. We're communicating in a in a way that you know, what I'm saying gets us down in the space of just being creative if you're just joining us. In the final minutes of The Usher Reman, the fourth episode of quest Love Supreme Usher Rieman is now proposing that the Roots and the Ussher do an album together, and everyone seems pretty much excited what he's saying, Like if you go back to the what he's like, like that it's all of it. Though I knew, I knew from the gate it was gonna lead to this, but part of me is like scared out of my mind. Why, um, but you but you can't. But you can't look at it that way because it's something that Okay, let me give you the reality. The reality is in the process of making all of the albums that I have and having the platform i've I've been I've been living vicariously through a lot of other people's reality. So even though they've been telling my story, I've been helping the world through like poems and through like the ideas of things, and then I've lived things. But I also to need to support musically to be able to tell that story and did not feel like it's just a product for sale, even though it may work, you know what I'm saying, But being able to understand somebody who understands all those textures, you get it, you understand what you you can't be afraid you gotta just allow us to just go in it and just get it going because around like this is a intervention. We have a plane ticket ready for you to go. Literally the entire room is looking at me at this point in your in both of y'all's careers, right, But I mean, you know, with you as you like you, and this is in my opinion, you know, you really have nothing else to prove, so to speak. So it's like, if you want to make that quote unquote art record with the roots, which I don't think I'm just using that term loosely, but you have nothing else, Like we know you can sing, we know you can dance, we know you can make hits. And it ain't about it's like, understand that it's not a it's it's about including all of the different textures in places that we both have gone to make it. It's not like just one specific thing, you know what I'm saying, Like, use all of it. You see all the examples of things that I've been able to do and you guys have been able to do. Let's bring it all together and bring the textures because there's a story that's way deeper. I may not even figure out what the the actual words to articulate it right now are. But I hear you out and clear when you hear the textures of what you know is relevant in the sound and the energy of what it is, and then you can go and put the soul behind it and then go also to put the right production behind it and the right ideas and the right ears on it. We know that we understand that, and we understand it in a way that they need to be taught. You know what it is though, And maybe this is coming forward. I see Bill looking at me because he knows I'm about to reintroduce the self sabotage uh analogy, self sabotage analogy coming up? No, okay, you know, like when and I had to place this old women, you know, like when women choose a toxic relationship, Like it's easy to choose a toxic relationship because you know subconsciously it's going to fail. I'm not going to go anywhere, so you don't have an expectations accountability on your bright. But if you choose a real relationship, it's gonna hurt some work. And thank you for doing the work already, because you're already doing it. We wouldn't even be in this fucking room right now if you weren't doing the work fucking right Thank you for doing the work so we could be in this room. I just got actually where you doing it? If you're doing it, and the and the reality is it's gonna it has to organically. This really became a freaking a mirror intervention. But you always preface that you're afraid of something that We've had this discussion a number of times. I'm sorry, I know, but I don't know. I don't feel like knowing you as a person, would think that you're afraid of anything. Yeah, it just seems like more of like an opportunity that you just think of a more competent person to carry that out. I'm afraid a lot. I but I'm also wise enough, as I've seen staying in other episodes, I'm wise enough to listen to my ledged talkers, you know. And despite whatever the pocket called leader jokes that you guys have, I mean, wait a minute, the reason why Bill is here leading as a producer, even though you know he's a musical genius and all that stuff, and his his organizational I'm just saying that I trust you enough and your musical wisdom to also not kiss my mean, because it's easy to have some employees that I have employees that will just that are afraid of me and like I want to make a mir upset. But I'm just saying that we need so we need to right ears and the right coaches around us to manage our expectations. You just need you need in it. You need what I call in life. You need an in a's Oh, what's a non nigga advice? You need to love when you're in there, you just right. You just need when you're like, yo, something what you think? No nigger, you need you no Nike advisor. Keep it fun with you? Did you come up with a year old that was so genious? We have all right quick good kissing man? Wouldn't that show on the album? What is all all right? What is that? With a string of singles that you put it's almost like Gangster with BBD, like these really good singles that didn't quite make the record, Like okay, well what happened was cook was? What had happened was this? UM. I started working on UM the album, and my son almost drowned the day that I started working on it. Right. So the album that I was working on then stopped, and then I started back up, and then I had to shoot a movie, and then in the middle of durm movie right, and then I decided to take a quick moment and I went to the voice and I did I did that. So all of these moments that stopped in between created like a different spot. I couldn't just pick back up where I was from the from the aspect of building the music. Rather I write it, or rather I collaborate and write it. Because the second single was she Came to give It to You with with for Real, and I performed that record on on MTV. Um you know part of it was I'm not sure, I'm not sure. I'm not sure it was it was the record that everybody wanted. That one was to me, that one felt like a post blurred lines. It was kind of like that was see. It felt like for real, kind of he didn't have a lot left in the tank. That's weird because as a DJ, I cherished any song in the key of E minor, that'sm that's very But that's how I think she came to give it to you is my Okay, I need a one twenty year that's in the minor that will lead me to a different long story short I still spent it to. That was such a that was such a disconnecting between the work that I was working on there and then where the album went. That in telling that story, it just felt like it's stuck out like a sore thumb. It had already served this purpose. It was a hit record. People liked it. It did get I mean, I don't know if it was as big of a hit as I wanted it to be, but it was a number one record, and um, what is it hit for you? Now? In light of this, Confessions even exist to you anymore? Is it's just like, what do you mean which aspect of confession? I just feel now that you're about making artistic statements more than dealing with man. I gotta the only way to make a cohesive Okay, no, no, I'm gonna answer your question that it does not matter to me to make a record that is like confessions, like I need to have confessions because confessions is never gonna happen again. It is what it is. It was for that moment, Jermaine Duprie and all of the producers who were part of it were right where they needed to be and right at that moment, and I can't go back and get that. But what I can do is moved to the next chapter and do something that it was like a cohesive body of work that is valuable, that feels musical, that feels like it's leading, that feels like it's it's pushing the lines it is And by the way, the idea of what music is for me now has expanded. Like, Okay, some people may like, you know, the older records that I did, but then there's some people that like some of the new ship that I do too. They like DJ got Iss, fun in Love, they like on them g and they like the original version of it too. Question, you know what I'm saying. So it's like shots fired, shots fired. So but my point is it's like, so now I'm forced with the reality that I have a stadium of people waiting to come and I don't have music to serve everybody right now. I only have one record that works here, one record that works there. And while we're in a time where I can't put out a song here, a song that and it's fragmented. That's the that's the reality of where we are, you know what I'm saying. Like, Unfortunately, even if people have an entire album, the people listen to a single, they like this song, that song, and you don't even know what album it comes from. So what's necessary? What's necessary to create a cohesive body of work that from the beginning of it, beginning to end, you feel the connection. It might feel like it's a little bit rocky and all over the place and text is taken from all over the place, but it's a cohesive body of work, meaning we need to go get in the studio, locked the door, bring in our internet. What do you say, bringing your internet board? And because there's a couple of them, you know what I'm saying. Because there's a lot of perspectives to be considered, and it is a progressive sound. It ain't gonna sound and feel like anything, but it's but it requires everything to make it happen. Well, Mr Raymond the Fourth, I know this was painful. No I wasn't. Actually I've really enjoyed it. Must have because form Yeah, I'm sorry, I lied to you. Top of the top of the hour, I told you You're just gonna be like forty five minutes to an hour or nothing. He's rubbing his head. He's not looking at you right now. Pay attention. He's rubbing his head. No, but thank you very much. Uh I. I hope for a great fruitful relationship, uh in which we listened to it like speed dating or something. Wait to see what yall do? Come on, man, I mean, it's not pressure. It's like it's just I will I can imagine. I won't say it's not pressure, but we have confidence that this ship would be dope based on your record and your record. It's not like you're gonna make a just good friends, you know what I mean? That should be the closing song, right or get it? I like get it? Not no, you don't like get it? Hell no, here we go like Michael Jackson. Besides, can't help it. They knocked it out the part, but get it and just good friends there. It takes a little bit more discipline on your part, right to just get prepared and then and then you know, let it happen because I can carry it out, you know what I'm saying. I can carry it a weight. And and some of the ideas and the things that I think we should add in are gonna be foreign to people. It's gonna feel odd when they first hear. It's gonna feel They're gonna feel some connection to it, but they're not gonna know what it is. They're not gonna know why they're moving the way that they're moving. They're not going to understand that it's something different. It's something that's intended to nurture their soul. They don't get it. Nurture soul. I love those two words together. Uh. This this is the wrap up of the show. But I'm telling you because I'm speaking into existence until it happens, it's no one's happening from you. Into existence. What did you learn, bro man? I learned us as a real dude. Man. One last question your studio session resident. No, no, no, just question your question your food? Uh? Exit shot my man, exit mark exit good child. Uh At record engineer, he was telling me about your studio session writer and what you eat in the studio, like like apparently your ship is like crazy discipline. Like what do you eat? We just stopped by dunking doing this before the interview. No, but um, I eat fruit. I like vegetables. You know what I'm saying. It's like bell peppers, broccoli, spinach um beats. Uh. Yeah, it's boring as ship. But what's crazy is that that keeps you. It's alive, man, and you get a need to apple bomb hey everywhere like you know, a real dude and listen to a story. Is a lot of similarities and my story as a young kid growing up in the South. And I'm just happy to just be able to say a drop up with you. I'm a fan and you know, always support what you do and appreciate your brother for real. Thank you? Man? Um, What did you learn? It's been an amazing ride growing up with you number one, because that's how it feels that way, uh in the CR evolution. But I also learned that like Usser, is not only hella woke, but hella up to doing something about it. And I know that you're very community active, but you just took it to another level tonight. And so I'm just letting you know with some soldiers out here, we're ready. That's all. That's what I learned. I'm gonna move my money to a black think as well. Well. I mind is in industrial. Would you need some suggestions Harver Downtown? Call? Wait, why are you looking at me like you said you need back bank. I was just saying I got some suggestions, okay, and I'm going to take your suggestions when we off the air. So the nigs don't know what my money bill. Oh, what did I learned? Yeah? So what did you learn today? I hate I don't want to say that I learned something. But it's just always refreshing when you meet somebody like Usher, someone his status and you realize that they're not crazy and they're not they're actually down to earth and um, you know, like every reason not to be Yea has everything million records. Yeah, I'd be completely You wouldn't want to be around me. If I sold thirteen million, thirteen million, I couldn't tell you nothing. Six times. You couldn't you. You couldn't tell me if I sold sixty eight million worldwide. He is one of the top Billboard artists up the century. Something my dad. I know it's something. The numbers don't lie. Yeah, So that's how do you stay humble? Man? This is I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. I couldn't eat doing it. You're fired, all right, I'm paid bill uh. Usher and I are about the same age, and I was just sort of wondering the whole time what the hell I was doing when I was fifty and uh and uh, it wasn't that. It wasn't what Usher was doing. And Usher, I don't know if you know this. We've worked tangentially on a number of different things, Sesime Street and the otherwise, and we've never actually met. He was He's saying, The ABC is like, motherfucker, it's one of the coolest things in many years i've worked there. That's great, Yeah, but I'm paid. Bill has a lot of jobs to one of them is being a key Sesame Street songwriting. Yeah. That sounds terrible, he I cat, but it makes sound like I have an ego. So that's great. Thank you very much for that. But it's it's very humbley to meet you as well. Man. Alright, the ABC, the movie you should you know it should definitely have wanted something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sugar Steve, what did you learn? Bro Um? First of all, I think I know Butter. I think I worked with him at Electrically back in the early two thousand's. I can't I'm trying to remember what project it was, but um Um, it's a terribly interesting story. Starting so young, and um, you know, I've I've come to I've come to respect your music and you from working on all this on all this stuff with the Roots, and um, I think I think a collaboration with the Roots would be a great idea. And I think it falls in line nicely with the rest of their collaboration albums, you know. Um, as far as I think it would work, well, it sounds like a lot of work, but just to add on something after seeing the Roots and I should perform at Brooklyn Bowl. Like however, many months ago, I'd buy an album of just you guys, you know, doing the old Yeah, I was that was my question, is that can be? It? Is it gonna be? I was gonna say, I felt like we always always cut me off. What I'm trying to say. I'm sorry, No, I was. I was wondering if you were imagining you're clearly imagining, um original material for the for an album with the Roots. Yeah, yeah, UM, it's it's gotta be original, you know. And maybe there are moments where maybe there's a song that that's so significant that we have to remake it and we can do it in a way that makes it feel like it was done for the first time by us, But it would be nice to have it to have didn't you record that Brooklyn Bowl show? Like yeah, recorded those? Yeah, be nice you want to put that out available, but we could in case we get we can set the stage similar to the Roots picnic with he was tighter though. Oh yeah, I mean we'll well, okay, we might leave with a taste of what we're doing. Let's do that. Yes, but yes, I mean there's there's the stuff is properly recorded on two inch taping. You know, my tired I have to say that. Um what you what you won't know about Boss Bill or frant is that you know, we all come from the Okay player community and uh, you know I kind of felt that Bill was losing losing faith in us for a good decade or so. But in the Roots, well yeah, I mean, it's not like we could surprise you anymore. Like you know, No, I was, I was, I was, I was with you all up until undone. Okay, Well that's that's that's that's that's way more than I expect. No, that's that's only one because his cousin was undone. It in cousin record. It's only two. Yeah, well, okay, I'm just saying that I was shocked that you really liked the Brooklyn Bowl shows. So that was my Richard Nichols moment like, oh it didn't suck like the Dame Dash. Oh it's not wet. I was like, oh, I still got a future here. Maybe I should investigate this exter thing. Um. I learned a lot. I learned that you're probably the most thoughtful singer I've ever met. Because I'm not saying most singers are clueless, They're fucking clueless. Yeah. I meet a lot of clueless singers that rely on their management and and uh there there we'd carriers to kind of advise them on what to do. And you you clearly have a mission. I do believe that you are going to be the mayor of Atlanta, Georgia musically speaking, uh not now maybe when you're sixty year seven. I don't know, but uh I feel that you will take that leadership role. Yeah yeah, out politically a little bit, Oh yeah, I can totally see us should being a politician. I mean, oh no, you're gonna come back anyway. Calling that note on behalf of Steven Unpaid Bill and Boss Bill and Layah and Montigelow and us your Raven The fourth Uh This Question Love signing off of Wess Love Supreme is a production my Heart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Questlove Supreme

Questlove Supreme is a fun, irreverent and educational weekly podcast that digs deep into the storie 
Social links
Follow podcast
Recent clips
Browse 404 clip(s)