Of course, Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. What up, y'all, it's Layah and it's time for another Quest Love Supreme classic. This time we take you back to two thousand and eighteen when Quest and Team Supreme sat down with legendary producers salam Remy. I mean we talk about everything, the craft of making his songs, what is like Craig digging with biz MARKI and his part in making the score with the Fuji's from April salam Remy Part one. Why do we have roll some roll? My name ain't Linnay Many or re May, but as a toler my shoes was Kinnell roll Premo role, my name is Fonte. Yeah, you can't believe it. Shout out to Salama for the work around remix s, submarema roll. My name is Sugar. Yeah. Only work with the best. Yeah, that's how I got to work on Lion next some some premo role, some three month s, some fremo role paid bill. Yeah, and you might not be a fan of me, yeah, but you definitely hate Yeah, Sewan Handy sena road called same role, bals my name yeah, tossed out the rule book. Yeah, hold up, is that Lauren over there? Yeah, I'll make you Sma rogue. He's like, yeah, what's them? Yeah, I'm trying to people one of my favorite songs. You guys, so damn road call some Sun Suprema Road, sub Prima Suma Road. So long's my name? Yeah, I'm on the spot. Yeah, I'm glad, super cat. Let me make get a red hot seven road call, Srimo Road call, Frima Suma rogue. So I really hate the fact that I established how gollible I am. It's like I'm the common person that I was told once that gallible isn't in the dictionary, And yeah, you just did that to me. Thank you, foss Bill. I turned with a quickness. I wasn't sure if that was gonna work either. I was surprised that went off. That went on like gang busses right now. Just troll mirror was hoping all of you. Look you knew it because your inflection went up like mad look over there. I was like, yes, Atlanta, only because that was the wrong name to say ladies and gentleman exactly. Another episode, of course, The Supreme, we have team supreme. We have fine til you know what, we haven't had a brother and sister rat at the beginning of the show for a second, and a lot has happened since then. How's it going to to your record? Um, it's going good. I'm reading my master bathroom first, bro problems. That's a that's not a new rooms problems. Yeah. Wait, you're redoing your master bathroom? Yeah yeah, yeah. So how many bathrooms you Well, there's a lot of houses to with three. Oh, you gotta good at you gotta have like a big Daddy Kane house. Yeah, I got like two. I have two full baths and then a half bath downstairs, so it's technically three, but you know one is just half. So we're really doing a master bathroom. Were adding the tub and red shower paint, redid the vanity, um, a countertop, guys coming to measure them tomorrow. Uh, marbles in the house. No, we won't do Marvel. Granted. We went with granted. And it's a um, it's a it's a it's a light it's a like a light colored grand. I think the name is like black ice or something. That's a real like you're keeping the walls white. Then none, no, no wall. There was a leather couches, man's leather. Though it's too hot. You got to sleep on that ship. You be sweating and ship. It doesn't matter. Still a single man's piece of furniture. I never owned a leather guy, just a settle a single man. I never did that. Okay. I was like, it's good. I'm getting off. Listen, turn up, turn up. I'm sorry, I mean, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yes, I have recently. I'm getting off the couch and Los Angeles, and I'm very excited that I get off. That sounds like therapy. No, no, no, I can I can get off the couch. She wants to know I have a good girlfriend, wants me to stay. Okay, Kevin got a job. Where are you moving Hollywood? Okay? Scott, how fly? One bad room. I was looking at the tourist video over the day. Had nice tale and approval. You gotta get your work husband's approval of your place. It was really nice to layout was nice, it was good, appliance is updated. Hey, I'm proud of you, Thank you, sir. I'm feeling really good. Uh, boss Bill, I'm gonna try to so happy. You're welcome. Thank you anyway, I'm Bill yeah saying I love that. He just said what it on the show for me? Goodbye O. That was so good. I've only I've only heard that on my phone, not in context. That was fantastic. I'm good. I bought a new house too. Are Do you like Fant's stand? He do it up? He do it up high? To me? He I just did a bathroom. He did like a whole studio the whole night where in Croton on Hudson, which sounds super for white bathroom. I don't know like too no, I used to know not any more. But I'm building a studio in the basement and that's that. And I've been parenting for two weeks and I'm fucking done with children. I was fucking like, uh had been by myself with kids for fucking way too long. Man, hey Man, struggle is real. He knows what I'm talking about because we were basically the same person. We are. We're trying to figure out your theme song, your angle is. He needs motivation and you know, all right, Sugar Steve, how's life now that you're big time celebrity Sugar good Man? Good Yeah, I started my own talk show my own network, and I am also redoing my master bathroom as as it's just a coincidence, but that's all that's also happening seriously, Or am I gullible? Bro I don't have like a master back. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to quest Love Supreme. It's been a minute since I've had uh an opportunity. You need to break metaphorical bread with a favorite, you know, not not not to offend any of the other guests I've been on this show. I still love you, Layla Hathaways, and I better come correct or she'll put a hex on me. I don't know, but um, our guest today is uh one of my favorite producers. UM. I don't know how to describe Salim Remy's production style, but uh it's I guess you can. Can we use that. It's it's beautiful production. He has a he's a very cinematic. It's it's very boom baptish. But um, there's always for me extra layers, Like he's almost like a if hip hop were served in a three Michelin star restaurant, I feel like he would be the guy. He would be. Yeah, where you know, Primo, where primo is you know the local corner store dude giving you what you need. Then I feel that you know Salam's uh, he's Salt Bay. There you go. Welcome, ladies and gentle Salt Bay sprinkled moon a quest, thank you, thank you. Usually when guests come on the show, ladies and gentlemen, I try to discourage small talk while we're waiting to record the show because usually the good things come out. And why he had started the small talk for Salim asking what he was doing in New York. But that was the first question because you're never in New York? What are you doing here? Um? I got scared. I thought Shore, since you up here to na um? Actually would I actually like to do is to make records. And I've moved to Miami in two thousand and one, two thousand and two, so that's been my main base. And even though I kept a place here in l A. I looked at it like Miami is a bit of my farm where I'm really in my creative space, and then New York is my farmer's market. Per se. That's where I've been at for last from months and I have a bunch of mango trees and fruit trees. I've been on my vegan chef in growing trees, gardening literally and both. So I've been in that place like kind of trying to find my baseline. So I've actually been to New York since November for one day, October for one day, and then maybe September for a few days. I've been home for the longest I've ever been on um really just digging into the music. But I was like, April's here, wait a minute, we gotta put music out because I like to make music for the first day of spring. What I would call, you know, the a Marie, whether the all I wanted you should play on a street when Houseelulians is open and I'm still in college age and this is the day when it happens, and it didn't happen yet. So now I was like, wait a minute, but this quarter is going maze coming, you know what. Let me come to New York start figuring out what I'm doing musically as far as releases for the year, visit all my business partners, figure out what I'm gonna do. And that's why, Man, it sounds like a beautiful life. Man. Yeah you sound professional. Yeah, I don't feel a professional at all, something like that. So I'm putting on my business had I'm trying to step out of my creative hat for a couple of days, figure out what I'm doing with it, and then dig back into the music. So do you already have the music? I'm sorry, you said music for Spring, like that first Spring song, so that means you already have the music? You just yeah? I mean it's funny. Um. In two thousand and sixteen, I put out like a bunch of songs. I called to it for the culture and I was like, I'm want to release a bunch of music. And then the song that kind of did the best side of that, which was Miguel Myself featuring Miguel Come Through. And then that was the Cember sixteen. He put on his album December seventeen, and now it's a single, the videos about to drop next week. Things to figure out what that So I'm like, okay, oh, I guess I should put out another one now. So now I'm just figuring out. Okay, I got these other songs, let me figure out what I'm going with. How's it going? Visit streaming services of the planet. Come talk to you guys, because I wanted to do this for the last eight months plus. Besides Pandora, what other streaming services? So it's the first stop, first place. So are you saying Monday? Are you saying that Miami is? Is Miami good for? I've never understood cats that wanted to be in that comfortable of an environment to make music because I figured that it's distracting and it's you know, you know what. I always thought that, like my whole life, you know, I carried the New Yorker mentality. I had this thing when sitting room. When you sit in New York and you watch people walking down the street. They normally walk a certain way, but I look at it like they're carrying something on their shoulders. Either I'm carrying, I'm walking real fast. I have it they're dragon and leaning. I always felt like New York was me, and I had a um mentality of you know, I used to hang out with bids a lot, so it would always be like, all right, cool, like I don't a pair of Levi eyes and the sweatshirt. I don't want to see any plaques. I'm going to work. I lived in Midtown Manhattan with my dad, but I would always be in the studio mindset. I always wanted to keep it there and had a rough year two thousand and one. You know, the towers felt mom past, Grandpa passed, and I went to Miami, and I was actually as productive or more productive, because I thought that the studio had Studio fifty four space was making music. I thought my SSL was making the sound. I thought my Organs is actually doing it. And then I was on South Beach in the little room with South Beach Studios, with this automate dynamite. We did like thirty songs and three weeks. So I was like, oh wait a minute, but it's hot here, and you know, it was nice, and I realized that the New York energy that I thought was only in New York was actually in me. So between then the year after I'm ade, you know, the major looks, whatever else, I would be even more productive because I get up and see the sun relaxed. But you know, it's my bloodstream. At this point, what does it say about me that I want to be the most uncomfortable atmosphere to make music. We would need a psychiatrist unpacking mistake, or we kid just all both to Miami. Yeah, and plus aren't you afraid of Are you there around August September or so any of the flore this last September when they acted, you know, my after Houston had the big issues. I really was in New York looking there like that because all my stuff going, No, my guys like, do you want me to felex you something? I'm like, my house, my life, sl my E, M T plas like what do you like send me everything? Oh, my disc But then I kind of sat here for a couple of days thinking, wow, this might be it is your studio protective at least for floods, and it is for for the most part, but you know, for anything can happen. Anything can happened. So I mean realistically, everything I own, you know, at this point I pushed all into one big house. I think, actually you would like my studio house. It's all set up with every other room. Every room in the house is wired together, record room into pocketed kits and every other stuff you told me you told me. I don't know. I just feel like it's sacrilegious to be that comfortable. Happy. Don't know what I'm looking at my house. I'll say that an artist that I'm working with like his mo is like, I gotta get an argument with one of my my drawings so I can write. And so I hope you not making love music. Oh Okay, I'm not the only one in the room. Okay. So um, I mean honestly, I think that me being there actually just being grateful the life work balance. I've read um Nasa putting me on the Barry White's book, um, and he basically had one house that he lived in and one house that he worked in across from each other. So it's just that was part of it. You know. I was looking at warehouses. Okay, I build out a warehouse. I have the incredible studio. Now I have to find somebody that wants to buy a couple of million dollars with the studio in order to sell it. Cool, Okay, Cool. I get the house on an acre and I make it into the studio. Okay, now just take it all out. Now becomes you know, It's like I thought about the Rudy Van Guelda Blue Note House or the Motown space or anything else. So I get my space is kind of a place to be comfortable. And then also I focus so much on lyric writing. It's like you know, feel like you're not where you are and then let's go for it. Do you write lyrics too? I co write a lot of stuff. Well. I pushed people who around me to write, like, the story is more important to me than the beat time because I can make the beat ninety times while they're sleeping, I can change it. I'm a remixer from starts, so I actually pushed the story to be the best thing it's coming, kind of like getting the script and then shooting the movie. So when you create a song, what's the first thing you're thinking about? Are you thinking about what's my hook? Like even before you develop, like, take us through the process that gave you made you look, just from the beginning to from the router to the tutor. Made you look started with the conversation that Nas and I were having um about Flavor Flavor that when we saw Flavor Flavor and I Ain't No Joke video, that we didn't know who he was because we hadn't really seen Public Enemy performed like that before we heard their first album, but they didn't have any videos. So when we saw I Ain't No Joke and there was a guy and this the whole energy of how that looked the energy of how BDP looked rushing down the stairs, and I guess that was Union Square, possibly the energy of Run's house high it looked like everybody outside that. Those are the times that felt like it had a certain energy to it. And then I was working on a lot of light and stuff when I first moved to Miami. So I was working with Ricky Martin, and I wanted to use Apache for Ricky, but I always remember the lost for us. I had the trick when he was doing stuff in the twelve hundred, slowed the sample all the way down to make sure that your chop was right on B. So I was shopping up. You know, I was supposed to be Ricky Ricky like that was my that was my thought process. That's what I was going for. And I pitched the you know a past you a little bit and to mess with it. But I was sitting there messing with it, and then I played it really slow, kind of trying to make sure that my chop was on point. And then when I played it, I just moved to Miami. So something I got from New York with and they just busting it, like yo, what's that? And I was like, ah, this is it, but it really it filled the spot that Nas Andari already had a conversation about what that felt like. So then I just basically took it. And you know who did the first ball, first ball, first ball, going to the second ball, Loop took the hit. Now I did that on um NPC two thousand. Um so did that. And then I just took the hit, filtered it, made played the baseline on it, and then I called Nas and he has his phone. He was actually an the Orlando at the time, writing and then I left it on his voicemail. UM. I was like, yo, I think I got what we were talking about. And then he heard it. He's like yo. Then he just hit me back on the two way or something come through. So then I basically drove cassette basically close to that. I had a CD burner and the who was it? The who's the h H B CD burner? So I burned it on my h H B C D burner and UH took the disk and I threw a world or something like that in the truck I just bought and I drove up to my Toorlando. And when I got there, that's not a close drive four hours just to play him, not not just the plan, he just like come through because he'd already been Basically, UM. The process was when we did. But my mom passed in May of two thousand and one. I was working on the shot A remix for Lovers Rock. I put nods on that remix. He came through. He's looking at me, like what you're doing? And I was like, oh, my mom passed. Me going to the funeral, but then I'll be back. You can furnish your verse. So he's looking at me like you're an alien. What are you doing? What you just say? What's happening? But you know, as you know. I worked through it and then shot A called me that day like, hey, do you want to do this? Dreams gotta be done on Friday, So I was like, I gotta do it. You. That wasn't something that was giving out every day. Shot they said remix Lover's Rock. Really, that's maybe maybe one person. I think maybe Farrella done something prior around that time, and I was hitting off the same album. I was getting my shot. So that was that. But basically that kind of cements in our bond and I ended up doing UM what goes around for stillmatic. So then now the next year his mom passed but I didn't know his mom was sick when he was watching me. So he was basically like, yo, I got off tour. I'm gonna go to Orlando with my daughter. And he stayed in Orlando and sometime share house. Then he was like, you know what, I'm gonna record here. So he had about five or six houses. He got lost Professor I can l a Alchemists, a few other people. So when he bought Chuckie Thompson and by the time he called me, like, yo, come through and come to Orlando, they were already there. So right, so it was already there. We were working at trans Continental Studios where you know Blue Pearlman's Placed or whatever it was. So we were doing that. I drove up Alchemists and now I were driving to the studio and I was like, Yo, this is the track. It could be crazy. I actually had Amy talking. I had Amy want. I was talking on the track because I was starting to work on Frank right around then. Actually I started in May. So yeah, I was like, had of doing some stuff. I wanted to put Curtis Blow on it, saying I'll be flipping on these niggles like we're mills. Like I had all these, uh these ideas, and he was like, yeah, cool. And I had to go to New York for a wedding and come right back. I left the track there. I came back and he had basically the first first and um we had the first person of the chorus. And basically the thing was that with that track, I was busy trying to say, this has a lot of energy. It was like a lot of Nori and I was like, no, just getting on the track and go for But what he decided to do was lean back on it and rock him instead. Back to our original conversation, if I ain't no joke, so rather than going at the track, and you know, he has the thing where he refers to Roman on the one, asked mo Fols basically he'll skip the one, let the one go hard, and then fall in the middle of it. Basically that that was sort of mathematical. Says yeah, I mean it's also that. And then also, you know, the father's being musicians like that, so he thinks like a musician and if he plays something, he'll think about it musically speaking as he's writing to it. It's weird because in my head I thought he was trying to do a Rob Base flow because rob Base also sort of rhymes on the and instead of yeah yea. So speaking of an old episode of reference of Rob Basic, his his his approach of straight rock him, and he was thinking about how rock Him would have sat back on Now let's get it old in perspective. That was That was the thought process, but I didn't catch it at the time. I was like, all right, cool is where we're going with it, And then as the song grew, we just kept adding legs. He finished the verses through the birds. There was a thousand people. I gotta tell you something that wait, then I tell you what. Um. I never knew y'all were saying brave hearts. I thought, see, I had my whole theory about made you look and I thought that was his him bucking a shot back at jay Z, which was still at that time, was right. So I thought y'all were saying airball, Oh god, And I was thinking, like, yo, why is this a little to mixing would be so great at basketball games that you know, like, jay Z, you missed me, motherfucker like that sort of thing. And even when we did that, like part of my theory was just no being in the clubs and being in different spaces that I faded it out because I wanted it to play, but I wanted you also to be in the club in fl like the people on the other side but doing it or whatever it was. So then now you start singing on with it, and by the time it creeps up that was a play game. But I mean that was the main part of it. Cut the record, took it to Miami, he played around a little bit, and by his birthday kind of played through it. And then you know, during that time, you know, he was still going through the drama with the radio and everything else. So I was like, um, take impeach the President and just used it by myself. The Alchemist is like really Alchemist was with me um during those days because he knew where the studio was from the rental houses where we were staying in. And I was like, yeah, I'm just impeach the president and I'm not adding how I had eight or eight or nothing really go ahead to do it. So he's just sitting there looking at me like what are you doing and basically really I just took the piano was a little off, and I had a story from Greg Knice where he was there when they made the bridges over, and basically he said that Caress I was going to play the baseline on the juno, and he's like, yeah, what about that piano in it? They went where the Musicians Union, It's at the old A and R Studios building, and basically Caress went to the piano even though it was off, and played played the super Cat Boots baseline on the piano. Then said sampled it and made the bridges over. So when I saw the piano and it was like it's not tune, I'm like, no, I'm good leave it. So then I went to the piano and I was like, no, what why don't you feature Alicia Keys playing piano instead of singing? Is that her playing? For at least that's me playing. But my thought process was to get her to play it and then feature her that way rather than making the typical R and B Alicia Keys comes out of nowhere with the hook record. That was my thought, but then she ended up producers Warrior Song without and then you know, it was like I know I can was basically come on, we love the kids. Man played on the radio, you know the kids. You gotta do for the kids? Kid? That was a smart song man. Yeah, basically, And that vocalist is actually uh okay, yeah, there we go, thank you. But I know I kid is actually Angela Hunt, who is was also on the group seven six six nine. Oh my god, she's the kids. The kids voice is actually so high exactly, so that's her voice, and that she actually wrote Empire Sam. She came up and she has no big soaker record, potty done. Who know it was big for last two years or whatever. I always wanted what happened to them? Yeah, that one album was well, damn you you out rabbit whole being. But I'm still going back to the beginning. Y'all waited a while to go back to the beginning. Now he's like he you know, he went on a tangent was good. Rabbit holes and tangents hand in hand. Uh. Where were you born? I was born, Uh, Manhattan St. Luke Swiman's Hospital up in East hollm and then I grew up At that time my parents lived Brooklyn Heights, but then I grew up in Queen's mainly North side Jamaica, Queen's Camberg Heights, holding on to that accent. Now, who's your your Your father is my father? Um? Okay, it's a bit of a rabbit hole. Should I go over there? Ye? Perfect? All right? So my dad his name is Van Gabes um producer, manager, musician, etcetera. Basically, the story how I came about is this, Um, mom, dad comes from Trinidad, eighteen years old. His father already lived here in Brooklyn. He's working at some place New York Insurance Companies. Just been getting older. So I've been asking him, re asking him the questions to kind of get the story straight straight. Now you can tell me to grow man version of what happened. So basically, um, he was working at a place called New York Insurance Company and there was a guy there named Bernard something. Bernard lived in Queen's St. Albans. He's like, hey, you know what you play guitar? Okay? Cool? My dad at acoustic guitar, was starting to play electric. He's like, yo, come around my way. There's some guys that do a band. So he takes him around Queen's St. Albans Street. My uncle Joseph Wiggins who's my mother's brother actually was the local musician and had another uncle named Thomas who played keys. Joseph played sacs, guitar. Whatever was introduces them. My uncle Joe goes, yeah, but know it out of here and we can probably go start a band somewhere else. So they started to band cold Stone Free and actually Larry Smith was also rolling with them, and they made play bass with them, doing different stuff. So my dad, my uncle's and Larry and probably I think it was somebody else named Ratty or something like that from the neighborhood all had a band Cold Stone for it that they were doing stuff. And then that's where my dad setes my mom and then my grandfather takes him away and he still has a call. Hey, you know I could drive you to work whatever it is. And that's where I came from, basically, you know, from a garage around the way band in nineteen seventy to seventy two. Did they make albums? Never did that. They just performed, I think because some there was a club call. I think there was a cheat that I used to be where SRI is on fifty second somewhere over it. So they performed in different places and when I've asked other musicians of the day, they're like, oh, yeah, remember them. They played whatever was, but they never really made records like that. And then my dad continued to um you know, produced and stayed in the music business as one of those people who UM kind of stayed you know. He did Broadway, he did um John I'm showed the box with God, Don't bothering me, I can't cope, went on the road, did Jasmin Bill. He basically was the first um A ranger according to Kenton next on Facebook, but he was the person who really knew how to put records together. Um Bert read from Crimes of Fair and hooked my dad with Kenton, who was his friend, saying, hey, maybe you can help him put together stuff. So the first time of guarding the album worked. That body was my dad's pretty much production. He's listed as a ranger, but Kenton, who was the producer and I guess co writer and up to Heartbeat, which was actually one of the leftover tracks off the album, didn't happen, but basically they went and redid it. So when I eventually sampled it from me here it comes to hot Stepper, that kick back and you have the master room. I don't. I think Dope has it, but you know exactly, I think he has it. But basically no, just in that conversation, I was able to get a really favorable sample Clarence Steel because because it was lifted from Dad's you know, original works. And you know still that's the fact that legacy comes around. Pops is always I'll say it now. He said that was his jam that he created. Um, you know what his band basically off of It's a shame you know, boom boom. It's basically that he was playing this a shame you did you ever hear the story of Larry Levin and the four Hours of Heartbeat? No, I don't know you No, I don't know that. Sorry, all right, So you know Larry Levannon's right, right, People did with Larry all the time. So yeah, the legend has it, you know Larry Levana, Uh like you If I say that, then then I know it sounds familiar. Okay. He to me, he's like one of my DJ idols. But he in in seventy seven when uh, you know, Studio fifty four spawns off sort of rejection culture, like you can't come in but you can come in, but you can't come in. You can So all the rejects were like, well fuck it, we're gonna start our own culture. So you know, three subgenres and subcultures started. So there's there's the punk, the punk scene in the East Village they have not and then like hip hop and the Bronx also helped do the blackout and then looting all the DJ equipment. It sounds very okay, I'm get And then and then uh, wait a minute, that was the wrong reference to make that. Well, yeah, because Bill's face just started. You know, I wasn't angry. I was laughing. I thought it was funny. Yeah, anyway, so uh and then I guess you could say that the ground you gotta get another build themes that goes deeper than the darker than that. Yeah, so uh, you know, just a lot of the underground gay nightclubs and whatnot. Oh like what they're about to the new Ryan Murphy John is based off of I'm sorry, I just went into a rabbit hole. But there's a and the abyss. Now, So the thing is is that the most popular Well he also DJ at the Studio fifty four. But Lair Levan like wanted to build his own spot. Leave Studio fifty four and bills that's what they're called. They used to do. They used to host balls, come on, okay, but this was more. I mean he built the ultimate warehouse with with speakers the side like it was probably the most like it's it's it's DJ's dream to to spin in a spot like this anyway. You know, he had an amazing following, um, I mean, like, and he would do the most creative things like me, reading about a set list is what prompts me to think that I can get away with playing like Kermit the Frog and DMX in the same setting. Um, Like, one night he infamously just played the entire Wizard of Oz movie and had a light show, and it was like, so, I guess once he got larger than life than uh, he started experimenting more and he was getting a lot of shade from his main dancers, and they were like protests, like we don't like the song, so we're not so we're not gonna dance like in protests. And so he went and I don't know did he commission Hartbeat or did he produce because it was too slow? But did he did he just do an edit to it or was it? Did he have anything to do with the creative? Okay, actually creative, but he didn't the obvious. You make my heartbeat, he made me trying to guarding a heartbeat. So he and pro and the next week he came back and basically played Heartbeat for four hours in a row and they relentlessly booed. It was like just a standoff. We're gonna sit on the floor and protest and protests and protests, and finally they're like, look, let's just dance to this ship so you can play the next record because you know, other club wanna let us in, so let's just you know, So anyway, that was part of culture kept going because that record means a lot to you know, the ballbecue, flex and everything else that you know came after it. And plus also, like Frankie Crocker used to all, you know, like he was the type of of leader that other DJs would come and wat so Frankie Crocker would look over you play it, you play it and then start playing it on the radio. And that's exactly so within that, you know, back to Pops, he was no producer, arranger doing all that stuff. He did uh promotions, street promotions that Arista worked underneath Vincent Davis who have entertainment at the time, and then he became Northeast regional um for Arista like during the time like he broke like jumped to it for a Wreatha and different stuff like that, and had relationships with Frankie Croker would you know go and produce stuff. Took the first person to take Douggie Fresh in the studio for the first Before that, there was a record called Past the Buddha by the Buddha Buest Crew where he got Slying Robbie, who he had kind of helped out a lot when they first came to New York, hooked him up with Green Gut three, took him around to Liry Levan all the other stuff like that. So he basically was the person that you know, when I talked to Slye Robbie now they're like, no, your father took us around and let everybody know us and whatever else it was. So he was just basically a connector through the musician scene, the jazzmobile scene, you know, part of the Jamaica Boys and all the Hanky great and how we rate and all those guys who are on that side were like my godfather's to say. He basically was just like a guy that was in the middle of everything. But he took Dougge in the studio to record a record with Spoony G and Spivey called Past the Buddha, which was a Past the Duchy rap version. They put it out. He got jerked. He put another record with Alison um Williams called The Fair. It was called Please Don't Break My Heart, which was another of one of those basically heartbeat, just that vibe, that New York energy Church chords exactly more of that stuff. And then you know, through his connections while he was at PolyGram, eventually um he bore a Green Gut three and even though he was promotion, was supposed to be doing it, but the whole it ain't nothing going on but the Brant time. But he was just like connected on both sides, management and music. So was he an independent person because you just mentioned like a bunch of labels in a short period of time, like how does one good from like um interesting like James Evans of music. He basically he I mean, he went through all the stuff. Basically his thing was that when he made his first records, he got jerked and he wanted to learn, so he went into Irish as an intern and then ended up being off East Regional, and then as he left it, then he ended up going a PolyGram. You know. His whole flow was always I'm gonna He basically would be in the studio, but then still be doing promotion, but then still be with whatever else, doing a little broadway in between whatever needed to happen. He always kept the I'm gonna work twenty hours out of the day aspect. Who was who was the most popular artist that he was associated with that was sort of a no name back then, Like son, I want you to meet us Sissy Houston's eleven year old daughter, Whitney. How kind of say, I mean, even during the time he worked with Belafonte, So it's kind of hard for me to say, like even know some of that time of garden and stuff. It says if you look at that work the Body album says recorded by David Belafonte, fan, can you take your take David with you? I can help him. He needs something to do. You know, he was an engineer and actually on a lot of stuff. Um, I can't say it was. It's kind of weird because I saw so much so young, you know. So that first time Doug Eve was in the studio he called me in the story for birthday. Yo. I remember how I went to the studio and he was touching everything. I just remember you were submitted to that high he was there, he was how was you? You touched everything in the studio and then you still do it? No, that's still are using one of them kids, like what does this do? What does this do? What it was? It was almost that. But I remember like the first time I heard umunk, don't don't I know how to play? Don't don't? Don't boogyo, Yogi want the class for that? And I remember Bert Reid actually looking at me and going, who told you how to do that? Like? So I was around like so basically, the way it worked on the Daily Planet block is that there was a Planet Studios in the basement, and up above that there were a lot of people who had studio like a little law spaces. So Bellafante had a low space kind of like right on the third floor, and that's where my dad would actually be taking care of Harry Belafanti's business. But also rehearsing the band, which was like Bernard Wright was coming through at that point, you know, coming from music and art, and he'd be playing on stuff or Crown Ice Affair had a loft down the block, so they would be coming back and forth at different points. But that's when birt Read is killing. You know. There must be the music sto the royal silks everything else. So everything was kind of happening in that space. And I was living in Queens with my mom, but whenever I would be with my dad for a couple of days, I literally was seeing more than I thought, more than I can put the pieces to it. I mean, I guess for me. It also started because all my uncles were musicians and my father's brothers as well. So my third birthday, there used to be a drum store on forty seven and kind of like right where Unique was somewhere right in that space right off a Broadway. It was upstairs on the second floor, and I think Philly Joe Jones son owned the drum store. And I went there and I was messing around with stuff, and Elvin Jones was there and saw me messing around and actually put together a drum kit for me, that was like of a floor tom turned into a big fluttering to turn into a kick and basically set up a drum. Kids like, man, get him this, this is what it needs with. So he put it together. My dad bought it. But that was like my third birthday. It was almost like it's where half pieces of it. I don't have the whole thing exactly. It was in my grandmother's church. Somebody must have got baptized and then or something exactly earlier. You mentioned Larry Smith's team and he's also like one of the uh the great pioneers of hip hop production that never ever gets mentioned in PATHI on the grades and did you have any on dmc uh? Did you have any any relationship like with him and or have any stories of just not really. I mean the only time that I saw Larry wasn't until later, like when we had studios in the city and he kind of came by and he was just always like man. He basically the times when I saw Larry, he was talking to me about my uncle's who had passed on by that my mother's brother like Joe Wiggins and uncle Thomas, just about stuff and you know, the holliest saying all of his neighborhood where they all were around, and then he'd be talking my dad, hey man, we gotta do something again. But it was kind of like at the point where Larry was passed his prime. It's really when I personally got to talk to him. I heard about him earlier and I kind of saw stuff, but I didn't never. I didn't have any of that uh eighty three to eighties seven prime Larry Smith and that you heard his name, but I didn't. And actually I heard him say, yeah, you know Larry. Oh that's Larry Smith. That's a guy. But I didn't really correlated until later on. So did you is your first production black Bike proper Demand? Or was it the album before that? Before mcgilla? I was just gonna say, did you do mcgilligarrilla? So imillalla was more? Can I please play this song for y'all? Don't know what it is? Let me just play. I'll say that, don't even set it up? Can Boss Bill? Do we have your permission to not to not even back sell this thing? I don't want to just play right now until this is story all about like that. Let me tell you a little story and it's not. This is the first song on my My Good and Terrible List. WHOA his name is mgilla? Now on that sounds kind of a realist right there. Actually, yeah, he got up. What does kind of sound like he does? It's like straight up he had to go. He did not. Damn. I just waiting to get to the course. I'm I'm waiting to get to it too. All you right, don't fortified? Right now? I can see this ship. We speech we go there, it is abound it. You're about to get a check for this. Okay, now you were at the Times are fourteen. I'm sorry that was Curtis Blow when you did not know that, Curtis I you didn't have Kingdom Blow. No, the record on that I want to be then I'm chilling. I remember that one so back I'll tell you mcgilla. Gorilla was um my light involvement. It was the artist that my dad had named Essence, and Essence was a beat box and he would he kind of took the buses things to another level, but he'd be doing based ones and stuff. So part of it was Essence, part of it was my dad. My dad also produced Falling in Love for the Fat boys. So that's their signature, their seven or seven drum machine, all other little pieces, and you know, I'm helping out on it, but that wasn't so much me personally being in the studio. But you get the credit on the album. I get the credit. But then also something's trying to Alan Smith and you yeah, I got I got put into it. And then also he was working that PolyGram as a promotion person at the time. Father was. So if you look at that record, his name is not on it, but mine is. It's like it's like a Grace click Grace say yeah, Eddie Hazel, Okay, that's MARKL. Riley. Yeah. Basically, so that record was but I was doing record. I don't know that. I didn't realize that what Teddy was using Markel's name sometimes that too, Yeah, sometimes because I know about well sometimes you're doing jas. I was using markeel because heduced my prerogative. I'm like why, but was taking everybody's credit and money? Yeah, so uh, how did that? First of all, how old were you? I was fourteen, Okay, that's highly on usual. So that means that you must have displayed an advanced level of some sort of musical wizardry that they're just like, go ahead, let's alum. Like at fourteen, I wasn't. I don't even think at forty seven, I'm thinking about I mean, you know, it's crazy. I actually you know, when I was a kid, know, when I was playing some drums, I was doing some different stuff. But then I also um see me and A Cannelly went to junior high together, so I had in junior high, I wou should have been eighty three, it was eleven. I had a little I still have a Yamaha Portal sound keyboard that I could program, and then that I was able to program beat so I would really be on the cheese box program and stuff. And then for my birthday and eighty five, I got a seven or seven in the Yamaha DX one in the fourth track, So I was actually making tracks and beats that I'll be proud to say sounded better than that. That was just something that happened in the middle of whatever was And when my dad was dos while he was doing promotion that PolyGram sometimes he had to pick up Curtis blow off the red Eye. He swooped through Queens, picked me up with Curtis in the car, drive me to school. You know what you're doing? Know that is sweet? T's my beat? Like out all the influence for the beats and the records were kind of coming from me, and I was like, no, this is this. Listen to that one. I'd be giving them my pause tapes, like take it, but to make a copy, bring it back for me. Here's another one I got. So I was actually somewhat in totally his heir to the street and just watching what I was doing because he was still a musician, but he was into hip hop. You know, he was helping Belafat with Beach Street, he was taking Duggan students all that stuff. And with that record, it wasn't like my hands were on it the way that I wanted to, because I would have changed it, but that was part of their production. And then you know Curtis, and Curtis was at a different point in his career too. He was still trying. Now that one wasn't me back by popular demand was my concept? But okay, I'll get off mcgilla gorilla just like what made him that? Like was there a movie? Pictures essence had something and he was like, um funking, And they took whatever the energy that was and video that's really what it was, almost like a jingle studio version of what's something that was dope row four track. It just got to you know something, it's it's just hard to even even if it's a night show like when we try to make like mock mock TV theme like bad hip hop or whatever, like there's almost there's almost an art to that which even if intentional or trying to be funny or whatever, like I kind of you know, I delve into I love that type of stuff. So I actually respected what was it? What was the first like drum machine that you were given that you that was your tool, That was my actual I mean, well that Yamaha Porter Sound I was able to program on, and then seven or seven. I had a Yamaha seven or seven, So you just skip the whole cassio SK one discover your sample thing. I had an SK one more like eighties, seven eighty eight. But before that, it was kind of like here's a drum machine, figure out how to program. So I started actually went to college first, and yeah, I actually I programmed on like I said, in the Yamaha Porter Sound. I was able to take that and it had like four little things where I was able, you know, and then I could record a little keyboard things. So I was really doing that three eighty four, and then it was like, okay, well we're gonna give you the seven h seven now, and then I actually got on that. But then I was mad because I was like, the seven h seventh snaire don't sound like Molly's. It's a demo snare? When am I doing it? Like, how am I gonna get this? So then I got your crack at the infamous Molly Uh it real? Nah, I got. What I got was what was it? The It's one of those gated reverbs Elasi's reverb or something like that. You just need reverb, man, and the reverb was trying to make it and it was still cool. I figured it out, but nah, that wasn't the case. And then eventually, um, yeah, it was a seven or seven one and Elise's drum machine. Eventually, I don't remember what that came before after the nine fifty or nine hundred, probably that later after nine hundred, because what I did was, um, I helped my dad. He had signed m c ral and Chuck Chill out to his label eight nine late eighty seven and m c rail was from Philly Kim seven Yeah on the album Yo Yo I with some of my age. Tarik was losing right now. Do you'll remember m c row m c row dog. When I put an m c I put em c rail post in the ASKVN. Yeah, you didn't say I produced this. I didn't produce all of it. I did one song That's where I got my man, but that was actually on my dad's label Chuck Chill Out and Cree Chip and m c ral It was called Palm Tree at the time, but he had um Palm Tree PolyGram. He basically left PolyGram as a promotion person and got a label deal and put those two artists out. And m c rail's life of an entertainers actually em c rail in the House Rockers with some casts that were from I think they were from Columbia, South Carolina, Um the House Rockers and then rails from Philly. Where from? Yeah? Where it from Philly? Wasn't I can't remember? I feel like he was from West Really see this, this this really helped. This really helped the route situation out all right. The way this is m c rail's life entertainer base sounds just like rock him beat sad. You're playing drums in the video. Everybody wants to rap will be a single. Tired of working on that job. Chap ringers the bus don't buses back, but you're breaking it called out six ft in this case had his ca to hear his noise did sign he was more This was more spooney gus. But there's some joints. He There was a commercial that used to always come on Lady B Street Beat Our on para ninety nine that was m c reil and it was like straight rock Kim like Philly had these two acts that it was like it did us no justice, like mc reil was like our our our broke, Uh rock Kim. And and then there was uh the Rhythm Radicals and they were like our fake publicanity. You were the Rhythm Animals? Did you produce them too? I feel like I feel like when this episode is done that you're gonna reveal like two artists that you know most likely was your dad's label. Was that the same label? Uh the Chuck the Chuck Out and co Chip album with Slaves of the Rhythm or you know the only thing I did on that am was I'm large. I would and change the mix. They had a mix where they programmed like I was like, Tommy Roll, that sounds like m C tight, turn that up. And they had um boy White, Rob White who Rob Lewis was his name, he had programmed on top of it, kind of some loud want to be Freddy being the mic master drums that weren't exactly it, and it was just like it sounds like they put seven and seven drums on top of Tommy Roll, and I was like, what are you doing? Take that down, turn the sample up, turn this other part up. And then Edison, my dad's partner, Win and replay the James Bond sample and kind of put that together. So him and uh, remember I'm Large when it was on video jukebox doing that. We didn't have we didn't have virtue, but yeah, I'm large. Was It was one of those things where, uh, at the end of the video was something to be continued ship but then they show a commercial and then be like, yo, save us from help the Bond from Deaton eating detonating one hundred save us And I'm like the second on the phone, like trying to come up with dollars pops. He got you. It was good. Greg Knights still be like, you'll tell your pops. He only thirty five dollars from talking to girl because they had a thing where you could dial up and talk to certain artists, so Rich Knights when he was an artist, Greg Knights, different people will come to the office and now they'll be able to you know your dollar number, and you for a dollar in it, and he's like, yeah, I'm gonna give you twenty five in a minute, and be over there talking to different people from all over the country. And then he think you tell your pots. He on me tht internet must he used that whole Northeast regional to his advantage when it came alover. Hustler, He's still a hustler. Does I mean to have his ear on, especially the cities on the East coast because he already had had to do that and whatnot. Definitely that, and then in the music space, like I'm skipping all types of stuff, but just in general, he was always in it, always in jazzmobile in different places, so he had his Basically my with the music that I work on, he pretty much did all of it. I'm just expanding on it. In different ways kind of going from this. So I was born into that. Basically when I came and graduated from high school in eighty nine, I went to the from living with my mom and Queen's moving into the building where he had Classic Concepts, which was Video Music Box, basically subletting one space and you know, getting them all the video stuff. They did, the chuck and chill out videos, the BBD Poison, you know, slick blow that was in our studio that was underneath with Classic Concepts was so that was all in our space. So that's the same studio room that I would have recorded. Ain't kamozy in or jig or whatever else. It was. That was like toss it up ship Yeah, yeah. Did you have anything to do with the Payback mix? The Payback mix James Brown Mega mix thing? Yeah, I did that. We it's called bit you produced it where you just did that? That was that was Harry he carry Winger came to me at that time and it was like sixteen, but my dad worked at the PolyGram branch with Harry Winger. So I met Harry when I was I trusted year old er now year old. I was in the vaults. I know you were in the votes early, and I was in there. You know, I was sample police early. Hey, that's oh, I was in there. I was going to say, here's but I got access. Okay, I was a f I was helping people out. Do me a very give us three X, give us three X or three joints that you kind of that you sniped doing. I can't even remember right now, but were you bad? Were you like, Okay, that's the funk drummer snare, that's O no, no, no no. I was like, you know, if there were like whole records because basically what I was doing, like The Funky People Part three I think had the version I did of blow your head without the noise on it. Yes, So that was something I went and did. So I was telling them like, look, if we have some of these records, where are usually in traps? Because you also did that for Things got to Get Better with Marv Whitney, so I did that. So there were the three versions of the multi There was a James version of him singing things got to get Better, there was a Linn Collins version, and it was a Marvel Whitney version. So that I made a mix where I put all three of them together and I put the drum beat on the beginning yourself, unwind yourself? I did that? Was you? So U was laying a little traps, so yeah, but cats was coming jacket and he'd be like, so basically, well you see, but it was it wasn't that I was trying to get the drums out of records that we couldn't get. I see that, but it's also here. Basically he would take the original reels and make versions, put a little drum and draws on it, and then Mother's like me, like, yo, you're the open drums and start taking it. And then he was the original source, but he just kind of why I did it. And then back to the James Brown Payback mix, it was like a lot of stuff that I pulled off for rails, and I think at that time most is forty at the anniversary or whatever it was, so I actually was in there and I just went through and made one big mix. But then I think his publishers wouldn't allow us to put it out because we're gonna add it to the whatever Harry did at the time forty anniversary box set, so we're gonna added to it, but they said, you know, you got eighteen twenty five records whatever I did, so we couldn't do it. So I had bugs E talk on the end, had flex say something on the beginning, and then somehow we found this way on the vinyl. I don't know how because it was just like what did I work on that for five days for you know, just basically don want through it just to sit there. But you know, once again, it was for the culture, for the culture. But I had access to James Brown stuff because my dad was a PolyGram, because I knew people on me, you know, asked Oscar Wong, Harry Winger, did you working into the Jungle Group? The Jungle Group was out before me, before I was around, but I had a copy of it early. So I had a copy of the do Do Do Do Do Do Do Do? Um? What is that? Well, that was mother Love. That was a mother love Jungle Groove actually had. That's what we used for Curtis blow um forma. Okay, that was you, that's but though that stuff helped me out later when I was doing noz is get down having nice clean exactly a great shot. That helped me when I was doing um, where are they now? You know, clean, damp, tamped. Wait, get on, I'm getting to is on put Yeah? Is there a stereo version of that? Because I just had to clean. I had the drums I had, I had the clean parts, so I was able to make it okay to something else. Yo, man, I'm highly amazed that. What are you saying? I know we're talking to my ale minute about because I was also thinking, I'm like, so does this mean to that you were like of the privilege, you didn't have the issues that a lot of people had with the estate and whatnot. Did out okay? Alright, so how do he you know, he had the clear like everyone else, but he whereas we would take it from the records, he would take it from the just went to the sound was now in two thou eighteen, we can get back in something to get access to the reels. But you're the only one at the time of your age that was like I was beyond I mean actually it was on the Jiggy album. Even there's a couple and think not on that. It's funny how I ended up doing that, but not not on that. On all that Glidters and Gold and a couple of the songs I might have used some pieces and some cleaner pieces of different stuff. So how did how did you come in contact with Jiggie Good rabbit hole here? So Dennis Davis um went into my dad. Dennis Davis is a drummer who played with Wars on Stevie You're coming, oh there go all right, So Dennis dnnis playing by himself man exactly. So Dennis Um ran into my dad on forty a street Man. He's somewhere one of the record stores. It's like, hey, my stepdaughter's got his boyfriend. He can rap whatever was So I was like, okay, so then exactly he could rap. So then they're gonna bring him by. Hey, so long you know, I was right into Dennis Okay, yeah, you know Dennis comes by at that time, he had like short dreads, probably up the head, so exactly. So he was like, yeah, I'm gonna come by and bringing his kid by. So he brings by his kid. You know, they got looking stuff. So it was actually a sound Kenny from Jiggie. He was at the time dancing for y Z And when he comes in, he's like, yo, you know I could rhyme, and he starts rhyming he's on his black Power. So I'm looking at him like, I'm not giving you none of my real, real exclusive schoolsive breaks. I'm gonna see what you can do. So I gave him Simonde. I had a version of Zion I kind of chopped up with a little substitution on it, and he did something that sounded decent, you know, which actually ended up being on the album. Then he's like, well, next time, can I bring my boys, because we're all right, we're in the whole crew. We dressed this way, we dressed flies Jiggy this and that, and you know, my other boys danced with Special Ad and everybody else, So can we come through. We have really a jiggy tribe. So now I have you know, half of exactly there was ten of probably it was actually all of them, plus Aunt, who had lyricist Lounge was with them, um Aunt Marshall, so he's actually on the jiggy and so they were all just part of the crew. But basically we had automatic you know, the crowd toss it up. It's like ninety people in there, but they were all more requests from the misfits, like their whole crew was all exactly. So they were all together because I lived across at the time. My studio was the next blot from Red Zone, so we were like in and out. But basically I was like your own studio or just the studio that my dad had was directly across from Red Zone, like one between Athrian time Um and basically I'm looking at them like I'm not giving you all real beat because diamond deal Or is like, why did you just use like scramp your style. You know what I'm saying. I put a little that thing all cool, that was all for the James Brown. But he's like, Diamonds, like, why did you ever do that? Like I see you at the break conventions with us, why did you do that? And I'm like, because they had dances, you know, flex add the thing we like samp meeting happy feet do sit down about to play something else, so he'd always be going at him. So I was like, oh, I gave them that seeing what they could do, but they may toss it up. Kasman keV played the ship out that in Philly like you're you're feeling royalty checks. It wasn't been because that was like toss it up was like the anthem there but it's funny you said that because if you remember when Premiere was on the show and I was trying to explain to you what he said that that what Large Professor was was doing for like, why would you give him such obvious ship at all? The all the drums on j Ru's first record, it was Captain obvious Ship. So I was either like, either you were like, no, I'm not going to give you my good ship, did you just get my throwaway paid a money ship? Or I'm gonna challenge myself to turn all this crap into which is something I did as an exercise anyway. But it was still like, you know, but could you could you really afford your reputation to be I mean, substitution wasn't that old? You know, this was ninety or ninety one. It came out ninety two, but yeah, when that happened, it was ninety one, so substitution was having It was like substitution, amen, brother, cramp your style. But as a case, it was just like all basic obvious stuff. But then once again it was about the song, and that's where we got together because the beat was in. But then they all came out of no what and that's that's and then also I was with Flex and Chuck Chillout at all time because basically Chuck Chillout had this group Deuce as Wild Non Double m Centipede and the funk Master Flex. So everywhere that Chuck went from eighty nine when he lived in the building the studio with us, I was there with him. So when he got to funk Master flexes on the one and two, they were using my turntables. Wait, so Flex wasn't about Chuck chill Up was the main DJ and punk Master Flex was like this record guy. Yeah, and I was the other person with Flex. So you would have to carry the creates and all that stuff, all that stuff. How many creates was Chuck chill Up using at the time, probably about four or five. And then when Chuck was talking, he was also when basically Chuck got fired off a kiss. When Chuckle messed up a kiss, FLEXI had the DJ fro him. Chuck is late, he wouldn't show up. Sometimes that sniff meant something. Sometimes he wouldn't show up, or he'd be all over the place. But basically when he got to bls Now, because my dad had the relationship with Frankie Croker and Maully was no longer on due to whatever drama was in control was not there. I don't know what that was. Then basically my dad was like, well, Chuck, you gotta talk. So Chuck got turned to talking, and now font Master flexes on the one and two became a phrase. And then they were using my turntables because Molly was always working on the basic you know, pretty much mixing on the board. So now they're like, now we gotta bring some twelve hundreds and so they used to my twelve hundreds basically, and so you were there doing the whole magic of BLS or yeah yeah wow. So basically my Fridays and Saturdays would be at the radio station all the way from that BLS time being in the clubs reflects and this explains the freaking Fuji's remix and why Flex played it so god there much. He actually liked it. No, no, no, but but all right, so I'm that relationship helped it. No more than a relationship. I'll tell you what happens um from the time that Flexes in the clubs, whether it's Red Zone, Powerhouse, the Muse home base, I'm there with him because he's used to having me everywhere, and I lived at Midtown. So as I'm in the clubs, I'm watching the door. Yo. Buster just walked and play the Leaders. He's trying to get no leverage. He asked Jessica to manage him. No, Jessica is doing everything else. But then he's upstairs in the room at the Red Zone Triple C and Kake, Caprie and Clark are downstairs in the Red Zone. He's trying to get on. So whenever he goes different places, I'm his odes. I'm watching the room. I'm seeing what's happening. So it's almost like how reggae has a selector that's kind of picking the songs, and then the guy that's actually mixing it. He's on the radio at BLS. I'm watching what's going on. I'm right now in the names of the songs that you're playing to give it to the guy who's gonna say it. Whatever was so when he first got the Hot ninety seven, it's the same thing, Yo, Salom, I need you to come with me. Why because you know the I'm a safety that producing the show pretty much but not really being always whispering. Now, Yo, just with the commercial play the the right the ray qualm, play the wout tang like I'm watching the room because I'm seeing what's happening. And that just gave me a sharp edge on when I'm making records, the same way that Larry Levane would know how to make it something right for the dance floor. Then now my records also sharper. So really what got nappy heads going? Because he wasn't a fan of the foodie's from booth Bole was Jamaican, Me like buduff butf like really buduff ba for you siries it, So he was really upset. But he's like, what are you doing this week? The foodie is pooff ti skeeps bringing boof. But then I also knew as that record starts number one, I started real really quiet. Your nappi has like some trees saw on us, where so I understood it as quiet and the snare comes in the water, it turns up. Can I ask you the question, how do you feel about that mix of um nappi? HEAs, yes, the base is very loud, very very loud. The studio that I mixed it in had a really compression room, so if you didn't catch it, the basis superloul but it worked. It sounded great on the radio. I was gonna say, it sounds better on the radio. It no song frustrates me more to spend back when I was using Wax to spend in the clubs than the Napia remix because it was so freaking silent. It was so low because the base was so loud, right, but then you hear, like when do you hear flex mix that ship on the radio? Found I was like, Yo, how come I'm not getting It comes in low and then it goes no. Just the way that the record is. Basically the room that I had a sound works and that's where I mixed that. It was a compression room, so if I turned it up basically, even if the base was loud like it comes to Hot Step, I had a loud base like that different records I did kind of just super base heavy, but then the top end of it was Crystal Claid. So really today we would have a multi brand compressor that would have just took the low wind and pulled it down free com BB and then everything else with the sound of this Claid. But at that time that was just the way it went, and I got away with it. But yeah, you're right. The A C d js, I definitely remember like having to do I would make my own Uh well, I do, like I said, different Kanye like re equip because he uses way too much base exactly so but in that but also I knew that as a snare started but that that does DJ then cheap with cheaper, y'all, I'm gonna leave y'all. Okay, cool, you know what this one's I she would cheap, but y'all, I'm gonna leave it, y'all. You know what, It's not bad, all right, it's the Fugies. And then when he was writing his verse, I played the come Clean instrumental Come Clean acapella, and it ain't hard to tell acapella over the track, So then he just fit into that pocket. So basically the record was set up in a way where the DJ is going rip cheap but cheaper, y'all cheap but cheap. We'all cheap with that's crazy. You gotta water that we already halfway through the first verse before you can get the next record. So that was my DJ mind that was already knowing how to make the record that if you didn't like it, you already want to like something about it and start going okay, so explain your work with the fujis and just what was that like? You came you had nothing to do with one own reality, right, No, not a all, Um, you came at the tailing of how did you manage to even get to them? Not wease all your way in? But trust because I know that basically what ended up happening was that, Um, I've done Mega Banson Soundboy Killing remix, which had the battery white you know whatever was exactly so I was doing from yeah, so so I did those pieces, but basically that came from being a BLS bugs the m D. Bobby Condas is working the BLS. Bobby Condas sees me going to how Jackson's Records plucking out samples. Yo, I'm going to studio. Can you come with me? Maybe you could program some b So, Now, in between whatever else I'm doing, trying to make the real hip hop, trying to keep up with the pizza and premires in large pros, I'm able to go with Bobby Condas and just sell him breaks that everybody used already for dance mixes, R and B mixes, reggae mixes. So he wasn't a producer per se. Bobby was a producer, but you did. I was to promote. I was doing programming for him of certain things, so he'd have a keyboard, dude, but just like some real hip hoppies. Because he saw me coming in there snatching breaks out of the library and that's what it was his office. That's what he said, Yo, what you got so cool? Now I'm going to studio making three hundred four in Jafana a thousand, just giving him breaks that everybody already used in hip hop for another purpose. It was new. And I'm gonna ask you something. I'm gonna ask you something. Did you use a Willie hut shample for Bobby condors the the iced tea high rollers joint for a mel before she got signed a group and the mail was on the record. That was her singing it and she couldn't finish the vocal and he actually took her lead off. So that was a male's first recording. Yeah, the um and you did that? Yeah, that was me. So I was working with Bobby and we did mac Daddy and we did that. Yeah, I did. I did probably most of the hip hop stuff on that album. So I did that and it is a massive sounds album. He had a song called mcdaddy that was like huge. Yeah, yeah, it was in the It was in the dance hall. So basically that set. So the dance hall set at that time, from say, was a combination of me staying in the booth with Flex and then being around Bobby and saying, okay to go from dance hall, which was heavy at the time, to hip hop. How are we going to broad So now I was taking the hip hop putting together. So back to the Food Jee, which was your original question. They heard Jeff Burrows was their product manager, and Jeff Burrows that Columbia as their product manager, and he heard the mega Banson mix because I've been doing all this reggae and hip hop. He's like, in these cast of Haitian, I need something like that. That's what we need for the food Jeess to help get them off the ground and Saint working. So then I think he might have been roommates or lived somewhere in there. Jessica, who was managing Flex at the time. You know this guy, Jeff, No, no, Jessica, once your number all right, cool, I go up to Columbia. I'm already in the building working on Shaba or whatever else around there at the time. Shaba Patrol. You know what was that? Tingling? Tingling? I did Original Woman where I flipped the j Rus sample. I did all the remixes. I did Patras think Um with Lynn Collins on it. I got all my Linn Collins record signs and remix I did all those pieces. I was just like in the middle of the reggae and hip hop mix? Was that you playing keys on that remix? Yeah? On one of them, because I think one is Christma. I did the one I did on there was actually um. I think I used a little Richard drums on there or something like that. The real thing, Yeah, yeah, yeah, the real thing. Trance were basically my whole m O was. I was able to take these West Indian records and get them on the radio, get it going, you would the reason we were grinding the hip hop. So how can you never work with Carris One, who was such a champion of of mixing reggae and hip hop together? Because Carris One would ask me, salam so, I'm making an album right now, why aren't you in my face? Stuff? You left that on my voicemail on Time. Well, has there ever been an artist that's been on this show that hasn't more times that just hasn't inflections? His impressions are great, that doesn't have a caress in versation. Yeah, like the articulation was that it was? It was basically I was there when he made maddism over the place. Every time someone tells like karas One, they make him sound like a James Bond villain. There's yeah, he's basically trying to figure out how demail your thoughts caress One. And I was sitting there and I've been working with Channel Live. I'm all over the place. Basically I've been working with Channel Live and so were you on the first ones? That that? Right? So I did probably four or five songs, So basically, um, Tough, no carress One did it. But basically while I was the studio, I did Bush Babies and Tough. He was that working at the studios interns. So he's like, when I get my deal, I want you to work on my album. So when he got the deal eventually through cars with Capital for Station Identification, He's like, yeah, I want you to work on it. So I'm doing beats for them, but Carriss hadn't met me in person. So the day they were doing mad is and was the first day I was going to D and D and you know the premiere room over there. All right, cool. So I'm sitting there and he starts, so slum, do you specialize in jazz beats? A jazz beat your specialty? And I was like, nah, I specialized in black music. And when I said, Tom, I specialized and he was like, oh okay. Later on he was like, oh yo, your boy kind of shut me up. He said I specialized in black music. I say, did you doun? I didn't remember? Okay, So I'm I'm coming back to not be head. So basically, Jeff Burrows is like, you can make the curve being stuff work. Can you get with this group? He comes, I was like, all right cool. At the time they were managed by David Sonnenberg and Bernard like so exactly, and at that time they had bisins. Let me say this there go. So David, who was definitely a character, was a fan of my personality because we had earlier business arrangement through any Comozy. So there was a time when there was a group called Natural Selection asked me to produce them East West and they basically had a record and the guy, the black guy, was a black and the white guyd group and the black guy really wanted me to do some beats. He had rented my studios, Like you heard you're doing these beats. So I went to meet with David. I listened to it. I was like, nah, it's a pop record. Uh, you're wasting your money and keep your money. I'm good, but I feel for me being eighteen and nineteen years old and not taking his money and telling them, oh, you're nice, some reverside drive. Keep your money. I don't need your record because I always picked with records I wanted to work on and didn't just work with anybody. So now when come up there managed by David, and he's like, oh wow, salam, I can get back to him. He'd already sent me ain'ty Comozy probably around that time to start working on the demos that became Here comes a Hot Stepper. And then also Jeff Burrows said it, and I was like, oh Colombia, alright, cool, I know what to do here. I know who I'm dealing with. So then it was Christmas. It was right after Thanksgiving of ninety three and you know that last check after you know. Being in the business at that time, I understood that after Thanksgiving you couldn't get a two signals to check until probably like after the Grammys then, because you're gonna be stuck. And if you didn't get your check from Sony before April, you was dead. So I understood what was going on, and I was like, y'all need to get one more check. Christmas is coming. So then Eric Sherman wanted fifteen grand I think I agreed to do it for ten or whatever it was. I got a couple of dollars and then they came by my apartment. At that time, I was living on fiftie between eighth for nine. I had part of the Beat Prize. Um. It was like, yo, you know my friend Kobe, you know, big up Kobe Brown was um, you know, always talking about you at college wild clips like yeah, you gotta meet the girl. I played them basically the loop of the drums and you know the what I use them. Yeah, that was the same thing. Yeah, well not the bust of Wins, but I just basically had the vibes and that it was the same album. That Pete used for Pace Pizza Sake. I can't remember what it is the white album, but basically I was just like kind of chopped that up and then I was like, we're going to studio. So we went in the studio and wild Cliff freestyle for two full times on the rail. I have still a cordings of like twenty minutes of him just freestyling. Then I went back and took the different parts, so you just pieced it together. Well. I went back and told him, Okay, we're gonna keep that. That your mona, Lisa, that's the hook. Um, you're this I fly away. You know we're gonna keep that part. You're cheaper, chieper like. I basically took he had cheaper, cheaper y'all, and I'm gonna leave with y'all. Rapp was or something. I was the last reason dinosaur, Like. He had all these pieces and I just took like four or five pieces of what he said during that twenty minutes and said, this is your verse. Now we're gonna say that with the chill out, wild cleft tone rather than a loud cleft And basically that's where the record started. Pre Pro tools pre pro Tools yeah, but I didn't didn't. I didn't actually edit it. I actually told him this is the part we're gonna keep. This is part we're gonna keep. This a part we're gonna keep. And then then he read said it in the more because wild Cliff has this mini mony ton a voice that I kind of referred to where he kind of talked wraps and you know that other space. So that's basically how Nappi Heads came up. Lauren had her verse. We kind of she was all miss hill to you at the time before she had the miss on the hill um basically, basically before it was there was just like her priest, and then Prize had his part, and that session became did that be it? Basically, and that you know, started going. Then I did a remix of Vocab, then they did a remix of Ocab that really became the real proper ONEm. Did you do like the slow space? Yeah, there was a Shelley Man with a black snap of drums. Okay, so what I guess by this point, did you decide that your entry is gonna be like hardass drums with this sort of psycho psychedelic I don't think. I don't know if I could tell salam Remy like, there's always there's a beautiful flute, breezy element to your work with some hardass drums under I think that's there's always like when people ask me my favorite producer back then, it was like Mounk Higgins, and it was Mounk Higgins because he always had all this orchestral stuff happening on the top and then bah boom boom, boom boom. It was like a groove that was rocking. So I still love the juxtaposition of you know, a vamped out groove that's still got me there. But then I love melodies. I like that. I like Marvin Gay for the same reason. Like that I want your album. I feel like the drums, the base and drums put me in the pocket, but then the orchestrations of the music and the vocals kind of takeing me somewhere. So that's kind of like My Beauty and the Beasts. No, my Jamaican engineer called it Kristin Karni or the top in Chris, but the base Krannie Like, it's just always that energy that we we go for, that we want to have, you know, it's a pretty facing the fat as basically both who was who was your go to engineer back then? Or do you just work with who you were giving or did you ever? I had my own studios, so I was always kind of keeping my people around. So um. At first my father's partner Edison, who actually produced a lot of stuff with him, and I was doing a lot of stuff. But thing Gary Noble started working with me in and you know to this day, Gary still makes a lot of my records. But um, yeah, he from he would just he would be working at the hospital, then he come see me after between we'd be doing stuff and he was pretty much the main recording and you know, my main recording and mixing engineering probably from ninety three forward at least something like that. Now you mentioned Biz earlier, Um, and I know that you're good friends with Bis. Yeah. Have you just ever had a normal movement where Biz, where it wasn't just like trying to one up you like anytime I see Biz, I mean it's like twenty years ongoing, it's always a one up game. Quest You got this all right? First of all, what is your take on cross cross situation? I mean, Bus got stories and he always will find a way to do something. I had it over here, I put it over there. I mean. The funny part is is that during that time when I was working with him, he had a period where he would just come to my house, which was no. I had a room basically that had like three trates of records, and it was the room that I basically made the ghetto at hots and everything else. And and I had a half broken chair, like a chair where the back wasn't on it. And Bis would come there and sit at my house for five, six, seven hours a day and just be sitting there, Come on with you got now you got something else in here? Funky? What else you got? And I would always be in the city going through stuff. My boy Rahim that worked downstairs records in different places would be with us, so we'd always be coming through doing stuff. But Busy would just sit there all day, like what else you got? That's funky? So I had um different bea and you know he that was the time when he was doing I guess was the album with the one he got sample the one he got sut, I need a haircut. So around the time he was doing it, I need a haircut, he would always be at my crib um just going through stuff looking for beats, looking for little pieces. Raggedy Man might show up sometimes be right and violence for him. Uh. Like those record conventions, like for our listeners and by our listeners, I mean me, um describe. That's one thing I never got to do because like just the whole like where a bunch of hotel hotel record vendors ran out a ballroom and you like, who's the first in line, Like who's basically been outside? Who's really happened with me? Um, what's really happened with the record conventions? It was great because we found out before that. Sometimes we would get together and you know, go shopping, go to Princeton, go to a one. You know, me and Rashard might go here, or me and Laying Funk was my boys. So we would always go to different places. A lot of us kind of met and downstairs at different points, and some of them actually work their trouble that worked in downstairs still works for me now it's my studio manager in Miami. Like different people would be around. But with the record convention, basically we discovered this place. I don't know who've discovered it first, but where all these people would come and sell rare records, but of course they knew that they were rare, and they were kind of playing the game. And there were certain people who would actually go to some of the vendors before the day of the record convention and try to buy whatever the key stuff was or already have DIBs on it. So t RA would do that with certain people, those guy Gary from Connecticut that would have certain records, like so Gary will be doing stuff. Um, there's just certain people. You know, Bob Gibson from Boston would have a lot of records, so I would always be dealing with him and sometimes he would send me like a box of records and let me pick what I want and send the rests back Like, yeah, somewhat he probably got burned a couple of times, but you know, things happen, you know, But but in general that was kind of like the energy of it. But at the record convention, just off the top of my head, who's there? Rock Q Tip, Uh Primario pop up? Sometimes ju Ju from Beating nuts Less sometimes Uh t Ray Prince, b Craig calman Um, who else would be there? Just Braake has you know, most of Buck Wild, finas Um show. Sometimes Diamond would definitely be there with Shaw to be there. When did this When did it start to get ugly? Like I came up in a time in which, like you know, Pete with allegedly and I'm winking, you know, be rate certain dealers for giving records out or you know records, and I mean sometimes because people didn't the fact that you would go and try to buy something that's exclusive and then you're giving it to three other people who are in the same business as you're making beats. So if somebody has something, I found this thing, I asked him to find this record for me, but then he found two copies and sold to somebody else just like me. And at that time, you know, I might go there and spend two thousand dollars on records three thousands, and my dad would be like, Lupe Andels, what are you doing? Why are you doing this? Why doonn't you actually play some music? And I'd be like, uh, well, if I sell this one beat, I just made tends, So why are you complaining like I made ten or fifteen. This is just part of the craft, you know, But in general, that whole space, you know, we just got ugly. After a while because there was just too many people looking in the same space. So was it like was it a breathless race to finish if you found like a certain Monte Alexander record or that sort of thing. It was just elbows and too many people because now you were going to I think certain people like Tip and Premier just stopped going because you they didn't want to go shop and where everybody else was, and it became too much. You know, after a while, it's like Christmas. You felt like everybody's getting you because they know that they can get you, and they want you to spend more money. And you know, of course your Prince b would be there buying, you know, paying top top dollar, coming there walking out with three big bags before some people would even get there. And then they started letting some people in early and become favoritism, you know, just like a club to turned into bottle service table and everything else. Hey what about the music, you know what I'm saying. So it just became a little bit of that. But I kind of faded off it after a while. It was cool, but I faded off it because I preferred so you know, the beginning and up year, there was a dollar band records Like it's like, I'm just trying to get something us right. And I started playing a lot more and that kind of switched a little bit of my perspective on it. But once again, it was a good resource and the exercise to have because you go there and you know, you see everybody on a Sunday morning. Some people breath was definitely humming and drive spit around their mouth. We know who they are, um you know, it was just like that type of energy. But you know, it was a great hip hop space. You know, after we didn't have the break beasts and certain things, giving us a whole lot of um automatic breaks. Who was just a great place to be in camaraderie. You know, I remember Diamond being a yo. You can introduce me to the Fooji's. You know, who's the mastermind behind the score because there were so many producers like who gets the I well, basically the foogie's as an element. I'm clear that um Lauren is sold to the Max wyl Cleft is eclectic and that's what he's still if you look at you know, just their voices and what they do, they continue to be that. But Prose was a poppet. If you look at um the score. If you look at the score, says executive producer Prize co executive producers Wild Cleft and Lauren Prize, Um has the the Beast is not loud enough. What's the hook? I don't get it here, you know. Staying Alive was produced by Applies. I mean on on the Wild Clubs, Carnival, Frisday, Guantana Man and Staying Alive. The rest of the album was pretty much done, but it was like, we need singles. That was pros going, Yo, I need to put something together that's actually gonna stick this together. Then know later on his Ghetto Superstar Records, that's him. That's his air of certain types of records in the middle. Even though why Cleft is more hands on, talented and has other things to it, his air was the person that put it together. And then also a lot of the score was built around fujila Um, which I did first. I was working on songs for Clockers and I did a song with the Fuji's that there was We have a song that never came out called Project Heads and basically it was real jazzy and that type of spike Lee in my mind zone, but Spike didn't want to use it um And then during that session, why cleft Laurens like, play the fat Joe by, play to beat you different at Joe because I made the Foojie beat for Fat Joe. Fat Joe came to the crib. He's like, you keep giving them the beats. He it ain't that mr beat, it's to beat so fat and Chris like he came to my apartment. I was like, all right, cool Tuesday, come back on Friday. Joe comes back by itself with another dude, Christism with him. He's like, I don't know what see the fat it's not fat at all. I can't tell. Lauren comes by. I'm playing them some beats, the beat that I used for Greg Knights's. Let's take it back to the old school. Let's take so that actual record is what I wanted to get the foodie. She's like, it sounds like we did it already. It sounds kind of trip, but we did that already. That sounds like Nappi edges. So then the next beat comes on and it's fujil. She's like, see that's what I'm talking about. That's disgusting. So during that session for the Project Heads record. She was like, yo, play the fat Joe bet, I'll play it. And then um left jumps up we used to be number ten and spits his verse and it was just like that was a moment man, all right, cool? So you know what, we need to record that. So before they even really had the budget for the score, I had a studio. They came back and we finished recording Fujila. They got their second budget open. And then if you listen to how Cowboys sounds, which I think Fortate did Cowboys or co producer whatever, a lot of the records were made to kind of fit around the eclectic sound, the eclectic sound or fugil What other records did you do on the score? I can't. It was just so, I mean, they ran out of budget to pay me. So basically they took their budget and got their equipment. I told him the story, I when my dad and you know, just like go to the music store. Yo, I got this. I'm gonna give you this much and this many days we're gonna get the budget. And they used it to buy the MCI board, put it in the budget basement, did all the pieces recorded, whatever it was there, hired Warren Riker to do what they need to be and then you know, Sean King did how many mics and a couple of beats. Jerry was of course getting his chops on playing bass, putting stuff together and then even Killing Me Softly, which Lauren originally wanted me to do her solo record for the album. Price called me and said, Yo, um, you know the record killing Me? So he was gonna do that record. How would you do that? M Yeah, I probably do kind of like flip flipping, like beat apple bomb. Oh, that's the same thing I was thinking. I call you right back. How would you do it? Yo? Know, I know what happens? Yo, what's that record booing apple bom? I got an idea, I got an idea. I know, Priz, you just said that yo, and this and that and even if you if you listen to Killing Me Softly to beat the baseline on it, it's just like Nappi has ba boom ba boom boom, boom boom. I never said something on Nappi heads. The bass notes are like the boo boom boooo, the dwick, the fash and boot, so it's ba boom ba boom boom. If you took that boom and unfiltered it. You hit typical drastic. No what d it's just super yo and it's just filtered like a motherfucker, Yeah, because I don't know somehow, I don't know how I ended up having that, but I ended up having it in the piece and I actually just filtered. Well, I don't think I mighty just recorded it with just the base up. But that is fun gets drastic, just a little base though, you bastard, so and that's so Killing me Softly is basically a copy of that in the hindsight and you know, part family member and part outside of looking and whatever. Do you think that after eighteen million copies of that album sold, did it serve them well or not? Mhm uh, Sorry to interrupt you, but you know to hear Salam's answer to that question. Tune in next week for part two, Much Love Supreme Tery just a Love Women. We'll also talk more about nas Amy, white House, cannabis, and much much more. All right, see you next time. Of course. Love Supreme is a production of My Heart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart radio, app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.