Black Music Month QLS Classic: Philip Bailey

Published Jun 25, 2024, 12:02 AM

Seven-time Grammy award-winning musician Philip Bailey discusses his journey from Denver’s jazz clubs to playing with Earth, Wind & Fire to the Songwriter Hall of Fame.

Questlove Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. Hey, what's up, y'all? This is Quest Love And as you noticed throughout June, we are celebrating black musical by releasing an episode every day. So every day you're even going to hear especially pick Ls Classic. And on Wednesdays we're dropping a new two part episodes with Wayne Brady and James Poyser, both of which were filmed in studio, so make sure you also watch this on YouTube. Here's a conversation with Philip Bailly of Earth, Wind and Fire. But don't don't screw up Philip Billy.

Supreme Supremo, roll call, Suprema su su supreme O, roll call, Suprema Suprema roll call, Suprema Suprema roll call not confrontational.

Yeah, I throw no shade. Yeah a Philip and I about to fight. Yeah for his opinions on race.

Supreme Supreme, roll called, Suprema Son Son Suprema.

Roll My name is Fante.

Yeah, and this is how I ball. Yeah when I go walking. Yeah on the Chinese Wall.

Suprema son Supremia, roll car, Suprema Suck soun Suprema role called.

My name is Sugar, Yeah, Sugar, Steve, Yeah, before you know it.

Yeah, you'll be on your knee.

Suprema Supreme roll call.

It was my name.

Yeah, treats Russian as the bomb. Yeah, the Earth, Wind and Fire didn't play my prom Supreme.

Much Supreme roll Supreme Supreme roll call.

It's like yeah, and mister Bailly, yes please, yeah, I love you so much. Yeah, I'm just trying to make you.

See roll Supreme Supreme roll call.

Well I'm here, yeah, and you know yeah that I can go, yeah, and I can flow.

Roll call Supreme Supremo role car.

Supreme roll call, Supremo Supremo roll call, Suprema Suprema roll call, like real quick, Who's that?

I totally I was trying to find some one of my favorite lyrics that he's loving, and you messed it up. Steve messed up, did the easy level reference and I was and I was just trying to make you see.

All right, yeah Steve as basically, I mean, he's done everything but tattooed the forty five into his chest. You had to know that Steve was going to give so Phil Collins.

Yeah, it was Yeah, this song changed my life, I'm sure, but.

He did the whole album. You could have picked any song.

Really. Yeah, but you know, I think you have a deeper well of Earth Wind and Fire and Philip Bailey Nowedge than Steve here. You should have left the easy level to me. Yeah, like the consensus.

Yeah, you had to beat with that was my song you got with the I'm with you on the raid. I'm ready, I'm ready for the Raise to beat.

Yeah. Because yeah, yeah this anyway, uh raise heat? Yeah exactly, Ladies and gentlemen, my tied my entire goals and dreams of this plot. Yes, is basically to educate and enlighten you all as listeners, But mostly it is basically for the five of us to just nerd out a whole bunch of questions that only a few of y'all going to get when we ask them, as you see during the Jimmy Jam episode, in the Ray Parker episode and Babyface and Greg fill and gains. But the time has come upon us to make our dreams come true. Here at QLs. We are truly blessed to be of the presence of Royalty bar None. I believe that our guest today is one of the most skilled vocalists of his generations. And I'm not talented, not gifted, but skilled, absolutely skilled of all the silky falsetto vocal gods of seventies funk soul outfits. Our guest today resides personally and my number one slot in my personal list. He's a seven time Grammy Award winner, a member of the Songwriters Hall of Fame, and a member of one of the most sharis beloved supergroups and the entire history of music. Yes, even my hyperbolegue is understated this particular episode. Uh, ladies and gentlemen, please give flowers and respect and love to our guest today. We've been dying to get on the show since its inception, the one and only Philip Bailey. Yes, yeah, wow, Well that was amazing. That was a great interest that I've been waiting for this moment.

Whenever my self esteem is low, I'll just play Oh man, thank you, thank you for doing this. Okay, so why do you hate raise? No, let's just go ahead and get No. No, no, please, I gotta start now. I'm want to make sure I do this the right way. Well, thank you for coming on the show man. I'm honored to be here. Really, this this is like you. This show was tailing me.

Just for you to be straight up and down very cool, very cool. All right, So I'm quickly started at your beginnings. Yes, you have a history that we got to get through everything. So Denver, Denver, Colorado. What is life like in Denver when you're in your formative years? My high city?

Now, you know, amazingly, there was so much talent in the Denver area, you know. You know, Diane Reeves is from from Denver too. I actually brought brought her out to Los Angeles. She was in a group that I was producing called Free Free Life, Okay, And I had to talk to her mother and tell her mother, don't worry. I'm gonna take care of her. Everything's gonna be cool. She had just gotten out of high school. Really yeah, but there's like, there was so much talent. I always tell people that basically I was just wanted to pack, you know, and I got an opportunity. Uh but you know, I played drums through school, you know, from the fourth grade through through college because I was gonna be per and so I was doing gigs and stuff.

You know, you know that scene.

The regular gigs and then the late night stuff, you know, and I would sing on one gig and I would play or sing on another.

Right, yeah, so wait wait you mentioned something and just set off many a rabbit hole that's about to happen on this show. Does dian Reeves still live in Denver? Yes, she does. You want to know something, Okay, the very first time, the first day that the Roots recorded at Battery Studio, a tripod quest was in Studio B and they were doing a version of Grant Greens down here on the ground. They were it was that blue right. But the thing was, I never knew, like the technology was so new at the time to have someone in a whole nother state singing their vocals. So they made it. There was something wrong with the whatever communication they were using for Diane Reeves to sing her right, this is nineteen ninety three, though, you know what I mean. So like she was singing in Denver, like we were like amazed, like wow, Trackwalk Questions producing Donna Reeves live at Denver and you know that that whole thing. So okay, So was this the time you you had this group when you were already established phil a Billy or now that she's like up here like you.

No, yeah, I was already established. I was already out in Los Angeles, you know, with the band and every Okay.

Yeah, so yeah, I'll say that Denver isn't the spot I think of when I think of usually a lot of our our great singers, and especially in the era of soul, their experience is down south or sometimes Midwest Chicago, that right, that sort of thing. But how does soul reach the Mile High City?

Yeah, well, you know, everybody everybody from the south some kind of way, right, right, So basically, you know, all the blues and jazz and and uh, you know, we didn't we didn't have no R and B or jazz radio stations and stuff.

You know.

Like so I grew up listening to the country and you know, middle middle country, you know, rock and all that kind of stuff. Love me some bluegrass and all that kind of stuff.

Because I was about to say, because usually people, uh, usually earth wind and Fire is the answer for people when they're in the middle of nowhere America, and earth wind and Fire is usually like the one group that somehow seeps through the system of of you know, radio or whatever reaches people. But it's like what does a member of Earth Wind and Fire listen to when Earth Wind and Fire doesn't exist. I'm dousing to you. I'm listening to all kind of stuff that you're doing. And no, no, no, I just met when you were when you were a kid growing up, do you remember the first album purchased?

Well, you know, everybody was listening to Jackie Wilson and and people like that. But I grew up in rummaging through my friend's mother's music music selections, so, uh, she was a jazzer and her boyfriend was a jazz bassist, So I grew up listening to you know, straight up jazz, you know, straight ahead. Was there a black church experience in oh yeah, oh yeah, I know. I was raised Catholic, but I did. I sang with a group called Echoes of Youth and uh in Denver, and uh, you know there there was a lot of talented singers, but also the choir director, Mss Joanne Ryan. She also would have different entertainers to come and teach us how to sell a song and you know, just give us input on, you know, how to perform and all that stuff. So you know, actually Pam Greer was in that group with me. Really, yeah, what other notable dim rights do we not know that?

Well?

Bill Bill Fazelle okay, oh really yeah, he was, he was, he was in We were in the same orchestra, and he was the first clear clarinet player. I didn't even know he played guitar until until I was out gone and famous and Natives talking about Bill Fazelle and he's on guitar and I said, you mean clarinet player first.

Yeah, okay, So how does now I'm thinking, like again, the way we are today with technology, you know, I can know of a soulful singer in Indian like two seconds. But how does word how does word even spread about who or what you do that gets the attention of I assume that your was earth winder Fire, your first professional group.

Or well first recording professional group, because you know, like back then there were clubs. So I started playing at clubs when I was like fifteen and stuff. So you know, I was performing and all that kind of stuff and traveling and you know, not extensive traveling going to Kansas City, you know. But a guy named Perry Jones, who yeah, yeah, Perry Jones was the one that got that that that was kind of mentoring our group that that Larry Dunn was in Friends of Love and Andrew wolf Folk and he went out to be the first promotion man for Warner Brothers. And when he he came back and with a with an album that was just white and he gave it to us, to me and Carl and the rest of a bunch of guys, and it was earth wind Fires first record.

So you were not there for the Warner period. I wasn't there for the Warner period or the Sweet Sweet No can you can you settle the rumor that Bill Cosby was the one that No, okay, I'm thinking of Charles Stephane, Bill. No, no, no, Bill. Now, let's talk about Bill Cosby for a little while. He had a history before his history anyway. No, it was Bill express yourself Charles all right, but uh, Sweet Sweetback is uh Melvin he was, and that's what they said, right, So was connected to Charles, okay, and he was connected to Sweet Sweet Back right somewhere. I'm getting it all mixed up.

So well, you know, Jim Brown is part of the history of the Fire really because he was actually managing the band for a minute before before I got in it Jim Brown, Yeah, Jim and and then Bill Uh Ruffalo and Cavallo, you know kind of they they actually paid him a little bit to you know, get the band.

Oh really, Yeah, So Rufblo and Cavallo were a thing even in the early seventies.

Yeah, because they you know, they used to run clubs and all that kind of stuff together before they actually moved out to Los Angeles.

I always wanted to know what their story was, right, and Ruffalo Cavallo they were princes managers.

Yeah, they were our managers. And that that was the Perry Jones Hoo hook up because Perry Jones was actually what you know, was introduced to Prince. Prince is the one that that turned him on him on to Cavala Ruffalo because Prince wanted to do what Earth onony Fire was doing, and so he said, I want to meet those guys that managed Earth onony Fire.

I had heard that that Verdin was supposed to produce Princess Ars. Was that had you ever heard anything about Like, No, I didn't. I didn't hear that. His name came up in like a wishless for the uh for the label. So Perry Junes, like I always from Renowlum credits always wondered would he always introduce your shows for something?

You know, one thing is just leading into the other. And uh, Perry did that and and it happened to be on that Gratitude album. Okay, so that's what actually just gave him that that fame. Okay, yeah, because he didn't do it all the time.

Oh okay, I see. So so you said that Larry Done and Andrew Wolfolk was there.

Yeah, they were in bed Yeah, in my band, right, So Larry's also from Denver or Denver yep.

Oh, I never knew that. I never knew that. So how did you guys?

Okay, well, we were we were in school together, you know, and Larry was in the ninth grade and I was in the eleventh grade. We were playing in the band together, and uh, andrew family moved to Denver there he was a service brat. So we had we had a group that was playing in clubs and colleges and all that kind of stuff.

What type of music we would do everything?

Actually, we would do Top forty, but then we'd also do Carol Kinge. We'd do Three Dog Night, Rare Earth. We you know, we would you know, we could do pretty much anything that was on the radio. Okay, so pretty much early seventies, well sixties stuff, you know. Oh and then I had a you know, i'd do quartet stuff where you know, it was Jimmy Smith kind of stuff, you know, because we'd have bands where you know, this guy named al Hammond Moore who would play, you know, play the bass with you know, with his feet, you know, right right on on the V three and I was either playing drums or or singing in it.

Okay, So I was gonna wait till you guys got to Columbia, but I might as well ask, now, how many octaves is your voice? Because of course you're you're your golden gift is in your fellow stuff. Right.

Actually, I'm a baritone. I studied operatic baritone in school. Yeah, in German and stuff. I remember that stuff.

Yeah.

So, but I grew up listening to you know, uh Seavon and dining in Washington off because you hear that stuff at the house, and I kind of mimicked those voices because of the passion, you know, the lyrical sense. But then growing up, I would, you know, I would I could sing, you know, whatever genre I was. We were doing on stage and stuff. So I was playing a gig and a teacher from one of the colleges was there and said, wow, you have an amazing falsetto.

I said, huh, that's what that is. I didn't even know what a falsetto was. So what what is your daily routine? Is this one of those like, oh, national gift from God? Or are you Seth Riggs? You know I did study with Seth? Really yeah, I did study with Seth. And you know, Seth can only he can only teach what's there, you know, but you know everyone that has taught with study with him gets get something. You know, how long is this average session? How long does it do you just go with you?

You wouldn't go probably past two hours, but he would just go with you until you you know, until you know there was a real breakthrough. I remember when Stevie was studying with him and then that song came out and he goes, oh, I am saying for tomorrow. I was like this, like what oh, But that was like right around the time he was studying with with Seth.

How how does word about Seth Riggs get around because for listeners that study with them really so seth riggs. Uh. For you q l US listeners out there, it's pretty much the ve go to standard of vocal vocal culture, probably most famously his his Michael Jackson warm up sessions are on YouTube just a Google Michael Jackson Sethwriggs, of which there are various exercises. No no no no no no no no no no, Like what what what's what is the purpose of doing those scales? But with different annunciations, Well you could, well you can hear you know, where you're speaking, where your voice is speaking from, you know, and he just connects you know that with singing. You know, it just shows you where where to place different things and the that goes, it's showing you how to get it to your head, your head voice, you know. Yeah, because you gotta. If you do that, you have to you have to go. There's no way other you can't go. If you're you can't do anything but go to your head. Okay, So they're very various. So for various ranges, you have to pick up a certain body. Part two because I always heard, like teachers in my school say, like sing from your diet, right, But I always find myself when I'm naturally singing what I always sing from my throat and they always say that's wrong.

Yeah, but how you hear your talk? You're speaking voice? Like what you just right there? You spoke from down here.

So but is it natural instinct for you to do the right thing or like it's it's natural. It's very natural now, but back then you were.

Yeah, but you know, back then, if you if you lose your voice a few times and all that kind of stuff, obviously you know you're you're you're singing from the wrong place or you know, or straining the door doing certain things.

For Jesus Christ, I didn't even ask, like what if your horse were night and you can't do reasons or just can't do it.

That happened last year, Yeah, in Vegas, man, for I was like, there was you know, there was this curtain on the stage that they hadn't taken down for eons and they and they they lowered it and brought it back up, and they said there was dust all over the instruments and stuff. You know, that's really fine, got into my my you know, my voice, and man, three nights, really man, I couldn't sing. I couldn't sing too much in nothing at all.

Okay, so is I'm so glad we have a singer. Singer on the show always okay, I always kind of side. I'm a straight up musician. I'd never consider myself a singer or whatever. So I mean, I'm respecting the fact that singing is an instrument, but having dealt having dealt with the demands of Wreatha Franklin and Luther vandros REITHA. Franklin famously, she can't go into any building that's under yeah, under seventy eight degrees. So whenever she would visit late night because we had a universal uh no, she would have these like these four dudes that pretty much Steve Harvey Detroit pimp dress looking cats, but they would have like secrets service, like earpieces and everything. They would come in around ten pm the night before and they would rotate sitting by the master thermometer thing like one in the basement, literally so that if someone comes in like it's not as hell you can't do it. So literally, anytime Aretha Franklin was everyone on the Tonight Show, a guy would come in and do three hours sitting by wherever the master thermostat is for the entire six flour to make sure that no one touches it. Trinity, I want that happening for me. But this is what I'm really asking. And Luther Vangels also famously like would make all air conditioning off in any stadium that he's ever been in. I just want to know. It's part of that psychosomatic No, it's definitely not. That's real. It's definitely not. It's like I try, you know, I try.

But I laid down, like on a couch like that at a gig and stuff, and the air conditioning was on, you know, and I started to tell him, y'all, you should probably turn it off and stuff. And I laid down and putting my jacket over my head and I did go to sleep. I couldn't sing for three days. It's the it's the free on, you know that that messes with the vocal with vocals, some vocal cords, some people some people can you know, can do it. But it's the same with me. Like when you get on that tour bus or whatever. My my the back bay is a it's it's a sauna, all right.

That's also the real reason why there was a Griffin Doordan slndering bus between Tarika and I because Tarka's doctor Africa.

Like and a smoke box and hot box. It's crazy.

Yeah, so it's it's like, you know, it has to be one hundred degrees to do that, so that that is not psychosomatic. That's why.

So let me ask this question, and do you have a daily routine of maintenance for you?

Not really? Not really?

Do you the dairy?

Yeah?

Yeah, so you know none of that stuff.

I tell you what I cannot do, and and I tried it a couple of times. Coca Cola. No, it's kryptonite for me.

I can't I can't even I can't say any I can't sing a note. I can't sing. Ah. Really, it just goes no soda, nothing, no soda, just Coca cola. Did they know that at the time commercials?

You know, I was doing this gig outside and it was hot, and you know, somebody was drinking co cola and I just needed something to drink and I grabbed some.

Man. It was done. There was no singing whatsoever not that night.

And so it happened again, and I just thought, okay that you know what the heck, same thing happened.

Couldn't sing a word. Well, since we're here already, I'm gonna just skip two two reasons. Do you regret that the live version of reasons is our standard for what we expect you to do to the day you die, Like if you don't do those exact andrew together everything right, Like is there a night where you don't reach that? And it's like the audience is kind of side eye and you like before your answers.

Can I tell you when I was probably like maybe twelve or thirteen when I first heard that, and I could hit those notes then, and then when my voice cracked, I was so upset I could not It was like it was that song in Prints on the Most Beautiful Girl in the World when he hits that high note at the end.

I used to be able to hit both of those notes. Not no more. I was so upset, up, so upset. So you set such a high goal for yourself that you now want to have to live up to.

Uh, you know, you know what people come to hear, so you know I always do that, even if I'm just gonna go off and then at live do some other stuff.

Okay, I'll do that, all right, all right?

Got a dumb question somebody told me to ask you this, and I'm gonna ask the room, what are the reasons.

Interesting enough that song?

Let's let's talk about that song yourself bit because you know that, you know the lifestyle of you know, the road dogs and all that kind of stuff. Memory used to have a conversation about, you know, infidelity and stuff, and so you know, well, I'm gonna go all the way back gets a little bit. We go into we Land, I think it was in Philly, yay, and and there's this there's this really really fine female. Okay, that that that is like everybody's looking at when we come off the plane. Now, at that time, we would take a whole floor in a hotel and stuff and have security and all that kind of stuff. So we go to the and we would just you know, like if you wanted to see somebody, you would just give our road manager an eye.

You know.

You know, I do not know, so I do not get to the hotel. I get to the hotel. The ladies at the hotel all right, and you know the next day, you know, she makes his phone call and she's talking to her guy.

You know, just like.

Just like.

So Marisa having this conversation. So I felt like.

A deflated and stuff was like, oh so I was talking to Maurice. So we had this conversation. So that's how we started to write Reasons. Okay, now writing that song and then Charles Debney came in with the music and stuff. People say that they used that song for their wed You're saying you wrote that song without a melody? No, no, that's that was we'd already had. We had the music. We had the music.

So you just how do you and Maurice's collaborating on? So do you talk?

It was?

It was, you know, different all the time. You know, it was different all the time, you know, whatever resonated with you at that time. But that's how Reason was, you know, was was was crafted. But basically, you know, the song says that you know, your reasons were a lie, reasons had no pride, you know, love was left aside and all this stuff. And people said, are you that song reasons for my wedding?

Oh? My goodness not what did I hear a rumor once that someone offered you guys to come perform the song at a wedding, and one of you had to reveal, like, it's a song about unfair like why, well, you know what we do.

We do some very expensive corporate dates, you know, you know, and if someone says to do reasons, I will decline.

Been specifically for like a love.

Yeah, if it's for a wedding, if you know, if it's if it's your wedding night and you know we're doing the music after it, and I won't do I probably I don't want to do after the lover is gone either.

Right, yeah, you know.

Your wedding night, wedding night, your wedding night, and you know, like this is your big party.

No, you know, I'm not on singing all that. Ye wait, why is it that all of our quote, our songs, our side chicks, sweet thing? I just someone just hit me saving all my love? Did I know? Yeah? She say it.

And now.

But what's the world You got your family? Oh? No, God, and they need you to she knows you know what it is, dude. Black people listen to the lyrics.

No, no, I think we translate them differently in our head, Like we listened because we sing along, But then somewhere in the translation is the feeling.

The feeling feeling Maxwell said had the same thing with pretty Wings, where people were saying they wanted him to like do that at his wedding and so many people come and say, that's our wedding song. And he was just like, yo, this is a song about a breakup, but wait it is. Yeah, pretty Wings is totally about the break See. I thought, you're pretty wings so you can fly away, you're about to get out of here, something like pretty slow, Yeah, pretty means.

The breakup song. I did not know that.

Yeah, I played it all the time and part deal like it's it's a feeling, and he was just like, listen, if that's what it means to that person.

You know, it's pretty arrogant of you to say, oh, that's not with it, but if that's how they feel about it, I didn't do it because I want I wouldn't want to jinx your relationship. Wow, I thought, I.

Just want to say, we still don't know the reasons, but the conversation I'm looking I'm sitting here reading the lyrics, like the reasons that we feared that Even.

Then, I was gonna say, most Earth Wind and Fire slow songs really don't deal with besides be ever wonderful, wonderful man, I'm thinking like all, even like I would consider Devotion a slow song even though it has nothing to do with a romantic relationship.

But it's really slow, so it is not really slow. That's I don't consider that. It's not a ballot.

Well it's yeah, it's it's not required about the album version of Devotion I consider a slow song, whereas I'll DJ the live for it, like as a jam. But yeah, that's so weird. Okay, so can you how are you officially? Uh well wait, what what were your impressions of Earth Wind and Fire when you handed that record?

I was blown away, first of all, because we didn't didn't have any pictures of them, so I couldn't conceive of them being an African American group. Yeah, because I had never heard anything like that ever before. And this is the first this is their Warner Brothers, this is the Warner Brothers stuff, and uh, you know, like I'm gonna, I couldn't have I couldn't imagine what they looked like because I'd never been introduced to afrocentric you know, music and all that kind of stuff, and and you know, it was no very much so very much so, I mean, and it was esoteric and you know, I was like, whoa, what is this? And then there was a merge of all of of the different genres in the music, and I'm like, what these guys look like?

You know?

And then Perry brought them to Denver on a promotional tour and that's when Verdin came down to the club, saw me and and Carl play and stuff, and we actually opened the show for them, and on their promotional tour, and I met Maurice on the elevator. Okay, yeah, he had coconut oil. That's the first time I never knew.

I never heard. I never smelled no oils, and I just I smelled coconuts. You know. It's like yeah, and he had a cowboy hat on. You know. Wow, So your.

First tour or whatever you went on, your first tour must have been pretty mind blowing. To see how the rest of.

Like mind blowing? Wait before it. See, the thing is that if you're not involved with Warner era Earth, when and fired who was like a moment of truth.

I swore that was you singing no, No, that was that was That was the first group. All the first group was around Maurice's age, ten years older than us. So come a Columbia time, he totally got the whole band.

The whole band.

It was only they left, and it was only him and Verdein and and so. In that time period they had met me through the Denver experience and I was out in Los Angeles. I was a musical director of percussions for a band called the Stove All Sisters, which was yeah, and so I would play and rehearse the band and stuff, so they knew I could sing and stuff. They broke up and I was going to send, you know, my wife at the time, Janet, and my first son, Sir, back to Denver he had just been born. And Maurice and Vernein came over and said, do you want to be in the band? And I said, on one condition. They said what I said, I want to be in the best band in.

The whole world.

Wow.

And they looked at each other and they said, you're that's a mighty demand. Then we ate oatmeal for next Wait.

Every time we thought we was going on the road, we'd get ready to get we'd get in the car and be on the way and some of them somebody would call and they'd go, yeah, it's counselor. I was gonna God, So I was thinking, I was, I was, I was debating on if I should go to you know, to some training school or whatever. And the guy I was living with said, look, either you're gonna, you know, do that. Are you gonna do this. If you're gonna do this, go back in there and you know, practice your music and stuff.

But that happened. That was our testing grounds. And then you know, once we got on.

The road, we got out here, we got to Philly, and then is that the infamous booing night yep staring out to Philly got to Philly.

The story.

We got to Philly uptown and all the do wop groups and stuff, and we had on you know, we had on tights and all that kind of stuff different And so then we had that colimba and and Rilly Loss playing the soprano saxophone.

He ain't never seen none of that.

And so we got on the stage and the whoo y'all stink, you know, it's you know, throwing little stuff up there. More he told us all to sit down on the ground and the lotus position, so we all, yeah, oh yeah in Philly after uptown, So we just sat, he said, and just be still and so just and just stare at him.

So so we did.

We in Philly after uptown, sitting in the lotus position with you know, with tights on, you know, you know, and staring at the ordinance as they curse at us. And they kept on and they kept only kept on, and then they calmed down a little bit and Maury started playing that colimba.

How did y'all at them? Man?

We at least ten minutes they they Then then he started playing the colimber and Ronnie Larve started improvising over that colimber. Larry Dunn went to that keyboard started playing them chords and we run into a rhythm. When we got finished with that show, it was nothing like it gives me chills to this day.

Really we were so it.

Was like Philly Love, Earth Wind and Fire. They was the It was the first that was and we got it was so monumental that when we got done, we went back to the hotel where he said, we're gonna have a meeting, you know, and we all got together and he's and we all recognized something special had happened that night. You know, we all recognize it and we just have to affirm it. You know, he said they're gonna eat either love you or hate you, but they can't be.

In the middle. Wow. Side note, I am trying to buy the town. Really yeah, I've been you know, that's that's one of my life goals with Sirah Live Nation. Shout out to Sorgy.

Oh before they get it, don't partner, just take it off.

It's not the man he is, but he's the man the company. No, it's still there, control on the rock. It's still it's still, it's still there. It's still a shell. And you know it's it's been The Uptown has been closed since eighty nine. I think, oh yeah, like thirty years now, that's a full I.

Was just thinking I was a full circle moment. I remember Fourth of July what was that ten years ago when earth went and fire came to Philly and you guys did the curation for the welcome American things. Yeah, and it was just like a full circle moment of seeing them after.

So okay with the first record, First of all, can you please tell us about Charles.

Stephanie and we had emotions on the show like a while back, and they were kind of really yeah, we had them in La.

But the closest thing thing I could say about Charles is Quincy Jones. You know that type of person. But he was also like just such a humble he was. He was an orchestrator and the ranger, vibist, pianist, ah, and you know, a songwriter and and a lover of his family, you know, and a teacher and a very very humble, understated person. And uh, all he did was just make music and and all those sounds and stuff before everything got multi tamborled and stuff.

He would record note for note.

Then you know, do the octaves change him, harmonize him, all that harmony stuff that that was on since before you know they got they got multi times.

Say you have to play one at the time. I have one of my life goals was try to find the all about love stems to see how he crafted the interlude that comes at the end, all right, that's eventually celebrate. Can you speak on that for a second. How the the ending of right? So basically that's his plate backwards right. I realized that now because on the Master rel when I heard it, I was like, oh, this is celebrate And then I realized that, Okay, you guys must have just played it, but it still sounds the same, like back and forth. Okay, So initially he was demoing what would have been Celebrate, which is on the Gratitude album. Can you describe what the what's the jamming process or how does a seed of a song or an idea form into Like do you guys take rough ideas to Charles and then he'll stretch it out because I've heard I mean, in the reissues of a lot of these albums, you'll hear super rough demos of of Shining Star and various earth Wind and Fire songs when they're just like jamming ideas.

Right well, like on that song Charles had really if I remember right, there was a lot of that song that was already there before me and Maurice started writing lyrics and stuff and everything that that he would bring Maurice and Charles had. They they worked really really well together, and al McKay was the key was a lot really Yeah, It's just like I could take a complicated whatever, complicated musical you know, piece or passage and make it groove really whatever whatever, because you know, that's a lot of music going on right there. You know, all those changes and all that kind of stuff.

But you can so you feel that album. Ka is a guitar player, was the he was someone of the epicenter or you know, he's the lock. He was. He was a lock because he he played with you know, watch hundred and third Street, and he was an R and B keing. He just.

Out even wanted to be complicated, you know. He he was about the funk and so whatever idea that Maurice would have filters through him, filtered through him and he would lock it up with with with Verdein and the drummer. You know, if Maurice wasn't playing, because if Maurice is playing, it was a lot simple, simpler because Maurice pocket had a pocket, you know, so in.

The studio, Maurice would play drums most of the time. Yeah, Maurice is playing on that okay, wow. Yeah. He played on most of the stuff until until fred Eddy, until Ralph was initially in the Last Days in Time, was Ralph drumming on that album. Then Freddy came along.

For Maurice on the on the records, it was Maurice until Freddy came. Ralph did play on That's the Way of the World. Okay, Okay, what was the relationship with Clive Davis, Like just very supportive and and unlike his experience with under like unlike a lot of the experiences that I've heard with other artists.

He never we didn't have those basically the only thing you're talking about blessed wat.

And he didn't he didn't and he didn't get into the artistic thing. He didn't get into the art.

But you guys were the blueprint of art, right, that's the.

Thing like get into you know, like he likes this song and getting this da da da da. He was just you know, Marris's give him the record when he got finished.

But how okay. But the thing is is that the legacy of Clive Davis is okay, quote the greatest ears in music or whatever. His his mantra is like I have the best ears of music. You guys, though, were so artsy, like literally reintroducing or establishing afrocentristic afro jazz, but fil but still with the pop sens like you guys were so pop but so black at the money ass hooks. Cause yeah, so like what you know, would like the whole idea of like don't boris gets the course and all that stuff like, who's the disciplinarian that knew Oh.

Okay, we're going all over the place. Really yeah, he had total a time me. He just you know he because he his background too was we worked at Chess Records in the in the in the advertisement, uh commercial department, and so like they would have contests with all the different writers, and Charles Stepney was arranger and he named Maurice Rooney tunes. That's how we you know, that's what we all call him Maurice Rooney because Maurice had this sense of getting getting a hook. So he was the hook man definitely. And he also believed that the hooks shouldn't just be in the choruses, but they should be in the music itself, you know, and in the grooves and all that kind of stuff.

So so how did you guys avoid not that I thought that there was cliche one on one and sold music in the early seventies, Like you're on my mind all the time. I can't stop thinking about you, like this just the typical rhyme scheme that is in every I mean, Motown basically wrote the book on that. But how like you guys are talking about mysticism and spirituality and and things that aren't necessarily you know, day to day conversation. Yeah, what were you smoking?

No?

But like how would you is it books that you guys would read. And then Maurice was reading a lot of stuff. He was reading a lot of stuff. And because.

He had traveled with Ramsey Lewis and they had traveled to the Orient, different things like that, you know, and he was reading he changed his whole his whole lifestyle, diet and all the cast because I went to I went to Ramsey's house and saw a picture of Reese where he was thirty pounds thirty five pounds, bigger and stuff and looked, you know, looked a lot older. And I'll resiute, you know, really, yeah, that's when I used to drink, you know, oh wow, you know, but since when some from the time that I knew Maries, he never he didn't drink and stuff or smoke or anything like that.

And so you know, you know that that kind of discipline was it hard doing that in the seventies, Like now food is more like science has made food very easy to you know, for a kind of not a connoisse or a kind of war like me to follow It is way easier now in today's society. But you know, back then a diet soda might taste like the worst thing in the world. But you know, how how hard was it to really maintain that discipline? Then he want the whole entire band to also follow the diet, and well, no, that's not true. He wasn't.

He wasn't like controlling like that, you know, like you know, it's like what's good for him? You know, it was just more example kind of situation. You know, you you try different things, or you watch somebody doing something, you see how it's working for them or whatever, and you know, if it's cool, you know, you might try it.

I mean even today, like if I go to Alabama, like I doubt, I mean only recently. It's so, how does one survive a healthy he wants lifestyle in you know areas making choices, you know, just just making choices. He wasn't you know, at certain points he did have you know, different people cooking for him or whatever. Okay, but.

I'm more, I'm more I'm confused to how you guys were. It sounds like you were a drug free band in the seventies. Not really, ok, But you said he wasn't that much of a discipline.

He wasn't he wasn't speaking about him, all right, Okay, so open our Eyes man, Now here's the thing, Open our Eyes. I believe it was written by Yeah because Eddie sings you mean that song? Yes, it's it's a no good go you go. No, No, I don't want to mess it up. No.

Open Our Eyes was a song that Maurice Uh this this uh guy used to play in Chicago on his going off. He used to you know all the time, and the and I want to I forget the actual artists who actually had it first. You might can look that up. No, you mean father, but that not the No, it wasn't No, that wasn't them. That was I forget the guy's name, but you could probably look it up father father Opened our Eyes. And so Maurice decided, you know how much I'm gonna do that song because it was just in his head because he heard it all the time.

See, I thought that funkin Delic also covered that song on I was basically trying to lead into the fact that they do they do Okay, So okay, I knew Yeah Funkadelic also covered I thought they wrote it, but most most most most soul historians have made once on the fact that you know, Earth Wind and Fire versus p Funk is sort of Beatles versus Rolling Stones. Well, I mean, you guys the Beatles in that is clearly the Beatles. Yeah, yeah, Okay, like you guys were never seen as the bad boys of soul music.

Okay, you know, I was thinking Funkadelic is sort of. But the thing is is that both of them have the same ideology, Like you guys have your version of spiritualism and afro futurism as far as the concepts.

That you'll later explore, at least with the you know, with pyramid technology and future technology. Were you guys aware of each other's existence in the early period before you guys became superpowers. Were you guys even aware of what was happening in Detroit Ends seventy two to seventy four? I would assume that seventy four is kind of the year where both acts finally got their engines waring. But like in the Buzziers seventy two seventy three, were you guys even aware of each other at all? Yeah, we were aware of each.

Other, and you know, both bands were so busy trying to really carve out their own destinies and be true to their identity. You know that we didn't take a lot of time.

But I know.

The one experience that we always talked about to this day is we played with the funk Cacadelics at the Armory. And it's not New York car, no no d C in d C at the Armory and we that was before we we we hadn't found no funk yet, and so we went on there talking about you know, I think about love, right, and so we had our little we had our little polite applause, and then the funk Aadelics. First you saw the smoke come out of the room, open the door, and you saw because they were smoking right right, and then you hear it.

Right right, man.

They funked us out of there so bad until Maurice said, we going back to l A. We're gonna rehearse, you know really.

Yeah, So we went.

We we went from there wherever we were on the road, we checked into wherever we were, and we had a rehearsal.

We gotta find the one, you know, really really wow, oh yeah, And then we went.

Back to Los Angeles and we rehearsed and stuff, and that's when Reese changed and went and got al McKay. Okay, okay, he said, you know because Johnny was just there Johnny Graham, yep, cousin of Larry Graham.

I didn't know if his cousin. Yeah, I didn't. Wait, how do you not know that I know that Larry Graham discuss it?

I never knew that really, never Johnny double check that I've read many never talked It's book.

He never talked very much to anybody. Okay, So it is a lot of you, and I know, to make it, to make life work, you kind of have to be friends. Or who are the clicks in the group? Like who do you who's your running buddy versus? You know, did the Horns just hanging with each other? That Maurice and Verdin just like who well, you know, like if you say, and I'm talking classic lineup, okay.

Clicks, you would say the Phoenix Horns. You definitely they hung together because they were crazy.

Boy oh boy? And who who are those guys? Who are the.

Michael Harris, Don Myrick and lou Sadderfield.

Okay, Steve is waking up because of course Phoenix horns Phoenix. Also, yes, we'll get to that. Reese was a loner.

Unless he was he'd hang with me, he'd hang with with Verdein. I think my my my hanging buddies were probably Ralph and Larry Dunn because I grew up with him and Andrew, you know, and they Me and Ralph had to meet room together too, you know, back in the day when you have to.

Back in the day two two in the motel. Ok. Wow, how Also, this is what I really want to know. What is standard for survival when you're in such a large scale group. The reason why so many AXCO solo course is to get the biggest piece of the pie, their own pie. But when you are one ninth of a superpower and you're not touring twenty four to seven or making your own direct money, like when touring stops and it's like I gotta go home and pay these bills and you still got responsibilities, right. So if I'm I know what it takes to survive like that in twenty nineteen because I'm oh shit, I'm in my own earth room and fire with eleven eleven, you know, when the roots this out, like four members ye yeah, why how do we get to eleven? So I know what it takes for you know, eleven people to make a good living out of this. But if it's nineteen seventy three, seventy four, seventy five, what is good living? What is it? What is a good living weekly pay? Is it making six hundred dollars a week or well? And you guys did that baller mentality, So it wasn't like you had rap videos to look at to be like I need that. So yeah, you figure that was a different time.

Diff you know, we weren't we weren't balling, We weren't trying to buy you know, a thousand dollars pairs of shoes and all that kind of stuff, you know, And you figure that everybody that was there at that time, except for maybe Al McKay, we're coming straight from their collective environments. Me from Denver, Johnny Graham from Kentucky, Ralph from Los Angeles. You know, So what impressed us then didn't take a whole lot, you know, it didn't take a whole lot.

And so you know, it was years you know before you know, we really.

Had any kind of understanding of really how much money was being made.

What was okay? But what was the dream? I'll say, like in ninety four, my version of the dream was, you know, if I could do this for a living, have all my bills paid, move out my parents' crib, and move in a nicer you know. I was doing that nice, humble thing, and that lasted me good until all right, I started making role money like maybe like twenty ten, and then I was like, oh, okay, I'm gonna be corrupt like the rest of rich America because now I you know, I never thought I'd get to this level of, Oh, let me burn this one hundred dollars bill with a cigar like that sort of you did what? No, I'm just I always had I always imagine a fat cat lighting up a cigar with one hundred dollars bill. But I'm just saying that in the in the seventies, what was just the dream? And was it easy to make make a weekly living as a full time singer? Because we know based on some of these like unsung episodes, and from what I heard, pimping was actually the DJ gig of the seventies. Really, Harold Melvin James Brown, like I can name.

At least ten to I'm sorry, did you say pimping just like just like.

With rappers taking your money and investing it in the cocaine?

Okay, I don't.

Yeah, I mean my version of that is the DJ gig. For the longest, the roots was like my my, no money, like whatever, like that's the prestige thing and that's that's his legacy. But you know, I make a real living off of DJ gigs because one and I don't have to share it with eleven people. So true. So I'm just asking what was just the life goals of like I'm satisfied.

And well, yeah, you have to remember that we were just coming out the Peace of Love era and we were very idealistic. So for us, we we we believed the whole spiell. We we really believed that we were family, okay, you know, and we really believed that, you know, where everything that Marias was doing was taking care of all of us, and we really did believe that we were you know that, Oh it's just gonna because you know, we were living our dream I see what you're saying, We're living our dreams. So it's like, you know, if anybody did raise up to say what you know, everybody would have to remind him of how blessed we really were, you know, to be you know, doing what we were doing.

So I guess it's it's it's financially impossible to have a unit that size and not come out the gate making millions. Because even for us, we did that. We did, we did, we did community thing like for the least the first fifteen years of the roots, like me and Tury didn't start taking salaries until super late, like two thousand and eight.

But see, there was a point when everything changed. That's why I'm wondering how that worked.

Well, we started making more money, but I'm just saying that in the beginning, when we get a check, it goes to everyone's rent, everyone's gas, everyone's that sort of thing.

So well, that wasn't what was happening, though, I don't want during the period, I don't want you to think that because that's not true. See what, See, the first group left because they knew that they would never be an equal part or take an equal share in the ban earth, Wind and Fire. They they they left, Okay, they knew because they had you know, they were older, they had more experience, they knew, Okay, we came in, we ain't know nothing.

Okay, so we were it was years before we knew that. Basically we were just employees, you know, and the Lion's share of everything was more.

So you guys didn't notice as you were going to his house to visit and things of that nature like that, like this was huge.

And I'm no, we didn't. We didn't know that. But I have to say, though we all had houses, we you know, we weren't like I wasn't trying to comfort the angle. It wasn't the money, but I just wanted to know.

Yeah, it wasn't like it wasn't like we you know, we were in the apartments and he was you know, you know his his his mansions were bigger than our houses. But you know, yeah, we all had houses, and that was something that we never thought that we would have.

But growing up, I would I would think growing up, like, all right, let's take a group like Mandrel, even though I know there's blue collar musicians and people that work for a living. But in my five year old head, I'm looking at Mandrail and I'm like, yeah, they're on soul Tree. Yeah those guys are millionaires, and that that's the and that's the impression that everyone has about who whatever they see on TV or here on the radio. So what I'm just saying is like, in nineteen seventy five, could a trombone player just make fifty to seventy five thousand a year and be cool for that period?

Back in those days, a trouble player if he made fifteen thousand dollars a year.

Fifteen thousand year, Wow, whoa whoa?

Back then, if he made fifteen thousand dollars a year, he could be cool. You gotta gotta look it up. So that's a hand of mount thing. Like still even with all and on stuff on the radio.

Like, it's still like you guys were blue collar musicians having to go to work every day. And I didn't know that.

I didn't know that that musicians made the kind of money that they made until I was talking to the Mouse one time, to the who feeling games?

Filling games?

Oh that's not a physical thing, is it?

No?

No, that's that's that's that's his nickname. Kay. You know Quincy called everybody called him mouse. He put you on the game Wow.

Look where I was at at at A and M and he was at a and m and we were talking. See we used to go to the same church and stuff giving me and Mouse and so like, Mouse told me that he was making ten thousand dollars a week with Michael back then.

Wow, way back then, way back then. And I said, that's good. Whoa ten dollars a week? She said, yeah, what you make? Oh Lord, before you answer this question, I thought it was gonna be a sound of frek Fee show all right with me?

I said, what, I had no idea that, because look, man, we're playing five nights sellouts at the Forum by ourself. We're playing you know, Whimley five nights, you know, by ourselves. Come on, come on, do the math.

I am you know.

It's like we we got we got plaques for for the for the Massive Square Garden, you know now now by you know, by ourselves, we got three four double double triple platinum albums.

You know, I'm like, what, So, how do you have that conversation with the man who's kind of like your brother?

Now? How do you how do you how do you Maurice talk about that? Or do you You don't? Okay, you know, I understand the.

Why do you rectify?

Sometimes? Sometimes you do sometimes you don't, you know, hopefully now is the you know, the glory period or whatever.

Like it was one of those kinds of situations where you know, like because like you was if you read the book, it was one of those kind of situations where you know, like, oh, and you were gonna ask me why I didn't like.

Raise Okay, okay, because it was no because it was it was in that period where you.

Know, everybody was coming of age and their eyes were open and their eyes were being open, and you know, the the chemistry was terrible, and he was using other musicians to do the pretty much do the record, you know, except for you know, me and him. We were doing and we were like session musicians to come in and do it. So it's like power light and all that. Oh my god. I was like, I could not I could not listen to that record.

I remember.

The first time I mentioned and that's the first record you said, you like, I looked at you and you said, you mean you don't like that record.

Dude, about yesterdamn one record.

I mean I probably could, you know, I could listen to it now, you know, But I think it was just a matter of you know, you can't listen to it without you know, taking you back into you know, all the craziness that was going on.

All right, before I get deep in in financial hole, there's still more I gotta ask. Can you talk about Caribou Wrench. You guys chose Caribou Wrench to record.

Your records because they were ghosts in the in the in the in the place. For reals, really, man, and I no joke, there were ghosts and they told us there were ghosts there, and you know, I didn't believe it until I saw one.

Did you bring it up? Because it was in Colorado? Like, how did you guys up? Yeah, you know, the Colorado has a great connection.

But it was a place where there were like about five or six different cabins. All the cabins had you know, three bedrooms in them with the kitchens and it was really a fabulous place, horses everything, you know, it was like a you know, it was large enough for it to be a little city.

Yeah.

And the groups would go up there, and we were the only you know, African American band that you know, ever worked up there.

You know, we did two records up there. Open our eyes and that's the way of the world. Okay, okay, can you talk about the uh that's the way in the world with the Harvey Hotel. Oh yeah, it wasn't that terrible. I thought it was enjoyable. Man. What you guys had distant so much really that when I finally got the DVD and watched it, Man, we went to the opening was a high standards.

Were always all excited. We went to the opening and stuff because we thought, oh man, we're on the move. We're going to the opening. We got there, man, nobody was there first of all, and then we saw it and we was like, so, how how did you guys manage to But it was a catalyst for some great writing, I know.

But the thing was is that because the fonts the print was so small, that was where he said, look, that's what we're gonna do.

He called Bob and Joe and he said, I want that writing on there to be so little really from the movie.

From the movie. That's the way I wanted them to have to look for it to see that. I thought you guys were just being clever, like you made up of.

Like he he did that once we saw it, because he's like, man, that's what that's what he said.

So the album was released way in advance before the movie came out.

I'm not I don't, yeah, I think it was released before. Okay, so he was already a hit.

Yeah, So what was the what was the feeling of finally, I mean, being as though that was the breakthrough album? What was the feeling? Well, I mean you slowly heard Evil and Mighty Mighty and all that stuff on the radio or whatnot. But was it?

Was it?

What was the main difference between Shining Star success as opposed to hearing Mighty Mighty.

And and well by the time we got the charity start because we had like about five number one records on that record.

But we.

We were we were then, we were we were doing you know, big gigs. You know, we're doing we're doing big gigs. And we had started to add you know, the production and all that kind of stuff to to our our presentation and stuff.

Okay, the the inner Sleeve of Gratitude where it's this bird's eye view, it's a bird's eye view shot of you can see the band on stage, but it looks like you're performing for at least one hundred thousand people. M h. Was that a music festival or was that a typical earthwinind fire show. I'm assuming there's a lot of white faces there, Like how I was thinking that I was I could be wrong. I was thinking that was Oakland, but I could be wrong. Yeah, it was.

It was just that was a very unfair. I know we did several we did. We recorded Oakland, we recorded Atlanta, and I think we might have recorded Los Angeles.

So you guys went from relative underground favorite to like it looked like a festival, like it was outdoors. It had to been somewhere between seventy five to one hundred thousand people all packed in this photo right what happened? Like is is that the magic of Clive Davison the radio system we're doing.

You know, it was a different time, different day when everything everything collides together, you know everything the record company was probably you know, at their at the top of their game, advertisement and publishing radio every when everything goes right, everything the music, that product, and people were you know, that's when music was very, very valuable to people. You know, they didn't have all these other entertainment situations that buying for their attention and stuff. So you know, a record came out, man, people were around the corner around the block to get your record when it came out, and David Foster was one of them out there.

Well, I want to ask about spirit versus songs in the kid Life battle. Well I'm gonna get to do that. Just one thing about gratitude. How set my mind of these how much live how many? How much? How much background overdubbing was done on gratitude? Because I refuse to believe that you guys were that perfect in your harmony game end concert without breaking the sweat, like, well, we didn't. We we didn't mess with the with the leads.

But me and Maurice he had a you know, clause and all the stuff that we if we did something on television, because we we did all the vocals on the on all the records.

It was just me and him.

So we just you know, molten doubled, you know, all the harmonies, all the different stuff. One question about your harmonies, man, well, just your vocals. Would y'all sing them together? We were singing together, We were singing. It was it was very very easy, you know, we you know, and we would sing all the up stuff, you know, all the vocals we would do so like it was hard for us to duplicate on the on the road. So if we did something, we did a recording, uh of something, me and him would go and fix the backgrounds. Okay, yeah, Wait a minute, Wada mentioned Justica Cleves oh man?

Was she MV? How did she join the the Last Days and Times? Right? And then when did she leave for Friends?

Have you?

No? Friends of Stinction was before? Yeah?

That was before she was in She was Friends of Distinction. That's how we discovered her. I mean we found her. Yeah, it's Lynny Smith.

And did she go to the Funkadelic Empire after she.

Went to Funkadelics after after she left Earth Wind Fire?

Okay, well all right, speaking of it is one thing I forgot. Did you guys have any response to Let's take It to the stage or you just took it as playful ribbing? You say, what, did you guys have any any response or or feelings about the song Let's take It to the stage? Or did you consider that just playful ribbing of Funkadelic calling out all the soul bands of the I don't, I don't, I'm not familiar. It's does he call them again? Earth No? Like he you know slipping the family brick snoofs tell me something good. He's basically saying, let's take it to the stage, let's battle. Uh, and names like you know, six or seven acts. But I mean, you know, where was that seventy six, seventy four, seventy four on the Let's Take It to the Stage album?

Was never too late for a battle though George is.

About to retire, Yeah, it is too late for late before. Yeah, but I always wanted to know if if you guys, like ever you know, took serious offense to that or you know, was it just but you didn't know until right now this No one ever mentioned that scene. No, wow, Johnny Graham, Let's take it into stage. It's just weird that nobody's ever mentioned that because I remember the first time I heard Let's take it the Stage, I was like, WHOA called him out? I was like, I was like, I was like, what did everybody think about this?

Well?

Yeah, I always wanted to know if there were Well, how did you guys feel about other bands in the day, Like, say, did you name a band name, a band that you felt some sort of way about, Like, man, we gotta we just didn't that was we just didn't beef like that back, you know, like like nobody guys kept you guys on your toes.

Everybody, you know, everyone wanted to be original, you know, we were kind of being out of shape when Ohio players been on on our music a lot, you know, really yeah, you know, like just like almost verbatim, you know, like, but but up from that to that point, there were like very few bands that wanted to sound.

Like the other band. You know, you would we would do it ribbing each other, you know, or something. You know, I would say Barka's more than but literally in every bar case. But they admitted that they were by the forty five of whatever band it was, and then switched, which is why Shine sounds like on your face or whatever. So the battle of Spirit versus Songs in the Key of Life, of course, uh, I think one of the first event moments in black music. I remember because I was five at the time, but a lot of my dad's bandmates were speaking of this. Of course. Both I think Spirit and Songs in the Cay of Life were released within a week of each other. Wow, right, yeah, right of each other. Wow. And I think you guys came out the the day before. I'm not certain, but were you were you at all? Did you have any investment whatsoever, like expectation investments to debut at number one. The end result, of course, the songs in the Kiev Life debut at number one. You guys debuted at number two. But I mean, was there a feeling of competition at the time, Like the most important artists in the history of black music is releasing their their definitive statement. No, there's just another day to you.

You know, you got to remember that it's a different time. You know, a lot of a lot of the things that you're talking about right now have kind of been ingrained in culture as culture has moved a longiness, you know. But for for us, I mean, Stevie has always been beloved, you know, as an artist, and I'm sure that he feels the exact same way about us, you know, And so you know, we were inspired by one another, you know, because like when he said, when he heard shine a Star, then he went home and wrote, Sir Duke, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the thing oh I wish, Yeah, he went home and wrote I wish, you know. But yeah, it was just one of those kinds of situations where we know, it was like we we had admiration society. You know, we're happy for him, and I'm sure he was happy for us.

Okay, is there a particular reason why, Uh, this is a nerd question, a serious nerd question. Uh, why you guys dropped the original intro off of Getaway the Do you remember the fifteen second No, there's uh it's a man. When I heard that, I was like, yo, and we play that, we play that now, you still do it? Now? We do it now in our show. They took it off for radio, and I always wanted to know why you guys never kept that on the album. I'll actually say that imagination. Listen, man, let me tell you something, man, what was you on that day? Because I feel like that look, even that.

Angels mix, it's like the mix there's like an a cappella mix of it that it was on the reissue re issue?

Yeah, oh my god, man, y'all vocals. That's what I was asking. What do you feel? Yeah? What do you feel your best performances?

I think that probably was one of my best, you know, even more than I write a song for you probably just be thinking about it, you know, like cause you know how you know you're still all the time, and so you think you remember how you felt in different situations and stuff, and uh, you know, I do remember the imagination vamp.

How do you charte out your ad libs? Because they're so well, no, they're just so nuanced and so I mean, they're they're they're they're there their own universe that even in listening to it, like I feel as though you really mastered. That's why I said skilled, you mastered the the perfect pacing of an ad lib, because I mean people would think like, oh, yeah, just do you know? And I'm I'm guilty of that a lot where I'd tell singers like, okay, just ad lib at the end and see what happens, and no magic ever happens, but you like, you know, raise it and then lowered? Lais it lowered? And how do you do you take?

I'm a musician too, you know, so, and yeah, you know, loving the a musician part of you know, a musician part of me. You know, it's just like it's a solo, you know. So like when you're taking a solo, there's a beginning, a middle, and then end.

You know. So I'm you know, I'm not thinking that way.

But you know, just the the artistic arc is, you know the energy I say, you know it's you know you ain't gonna start, you know, just.

Nowhere to go? You know, nowhere to go? You know it's the thing a lesser, a lesser singer normally, like today cats go zero to sixty instantly giving themselves like no room to to build up to that point. And yet you know, I mean you're given sixteen bars to figure out how to get a point aid to Z and a very skillful like Navin gation. So how long does is the recording of like do you do your main vocals versus you don't lose your voice? And then do you come back to do the at limbs because that's some hard singing you're doing, or imagination on some songs.

We would I would sing it and then go home and listen to it and know that, Okay, I was gonna have to you know, do do the vamp MH. I remember, because doing, I mean, the vamps are the art is there's an art of doing in doing the vamps. I remember, you know some of the emotions we have conversations, they call and I got to do my vamp tomorrow on this or that, you know, and we might you know, tell me, you know, listen to it, you know, give them some points, you know, you know, because at the end of a song, Jackson, Michael Jackson is the king of at libin. At the end of a song, I mean you know, you know the rhythm, the rhythm, you know, yes, that's the rhythm, the rhythm and how he builds you know, those songs.

But the thing is that Mike, Mike will tend to get locked into a thing like the end of the things I do for you could also be the end of working day and night. Like he has this default go to thing where people and that's the thing. You don't have a default, That's what I'm saying, skilled, because you are one of the few at livers that now when Felipe won first, the only reason why I feel as though he's so masterful is because half the time that's the only part of the song he's allowed to sing. Because we I'm just slowly discovered, especially now having all the Soul Train episodes that ain't singing the lyrics. They just like, all right, Felipe, go and clean up. And you know, if you're giving like thirty seconds a sign you're gonna you're gonna go for it, say any and everything, but you never have a a route where it's like you repeat yourself or have a line. Actually, wait, can you explain to me what is the genesis of the body eye?

I was waiting for you to ask that.

No, I'm not talking about Bio the song, because I also want to know how that song did not make it and yet you guys found that little thirty second gem that, of course now everyone's favorite interlude of all time. But I'm just saying in general, the earth wind and Fire at lib is always a body out. Oh why why that specific.

Memblee love Brazil sixty six? Oh we love we love, we love us some Brazil six six and we and we love Brazilian music.

And we studied, you know, we studied that stuff, you know a lot.

And you know in research, like you know, if if it's grooving, you know, he wouldn't wouldn't mess with it, you know, and it sings, you know it, you know it sings you know like you know, like a phrase on a horn or whatever.

You know. Wow, So the actual song behl or how did you bayo b e I j bo? Yeah, yeah, I gotta find it. That was Milton, not some mental you know, because we were we were.

He actually played with us when we were in in Brazil, you know, we played the stadium and stuff. We were big fans of his and stuff. But with the song and we did it, we did that song was with him. We did a song, but we didn't use a song. Yeah, why did that song make it? It goes all over the place. I could probably see why it made the cutting room floor.

But more importantly is whose idea was it to find the right elements that led to the interlude of what we now know as the Wow Phil.

How did y'all decide which songs will go to other artists and which will stand in the band?

One song that didn't go to another to the artist who they had cut it for. Was it was it the Chambers Brothers or something? What was was Bookie Wonderland? It was like it was our had produced it on another group and Maurice heard it, you like come here, yeah, and you know that's how that's how we ended up doing.

Charles also dies during the did he die before the spirit we were in it? M yeah? Midwait, so what did that do to the band's chemistry and hm hmm. What pressure was that on you guys to now take over the car now that you had no more driver.

Yeah, I mean it was immant really because Maurice was so much in his zone with Charles, because see, he could think, he could think as far as he wanted to think, as fast as he wanted to think, and Charles musically was able to galvanize things and and then make it help and and Al McKay could put make a groove, so it was it was a team, you know, and Larry Dunn could make it sweet, you know, me do the vocals.

So it was a great team. You know.

When Charles left, there was a serious void because the only other person that that we found that he really respected like that, that we had success with was was David Foster.

So it's essentially David Foster Charles's replacement. Like no Maurice figure or just an equal. He didn't need.

He really the issue was, you know, really didn't respect a lot of different a lot of people, Okay, you know, definitely didn't need no father figure, you know, but he needed.

So Charles wasn't the father figure, well, but he was the only one.

He was the only you can say, really, get that ship out of here, you know, that's how you talk, you know, you know he could. He's the only one that talked how Reese talked to us. That's how the Charles talked to Rees. Really really get this shut out of here, you know, no, you know, but because he really respected Charles in that in that kind of way, so nobody ever replaced him.

You know, no one ever replaced him.

But David did have that same musical ability, not the same, but he had you know, had had a creditible music.

Ability that Maurice respected. So we were able to besides besides wild was it.

For new birth? Uh? Wild flower? Besides Wildflower? What? What did David have that at least got his rap out there with people like, yo, I'm gonna mess with him?

Or well he you know, he has a really good sense of songs and you know, like and he was accomplished as a as a as a pianist. So him and Marie were able to you know, to craft you know, like in the Stone and all that kind of stuff, and Maurice was able to make it commercial.

Okay, okay, but David didn't come for all and nod he what is the serpentine fire. Serpentine fire is the is the male sex drive?

Viagrap No, that's something you take for the drive.

Was how is passion? You know? You know LUs okay on the on the male side, serpentine.

That's what you'reposed to have naturally.

Word Okay, thank you anyway, But then all those lyrics will make sense to you now and you go read the lyrics now well.

No, just seeing the commercial again with the with the whole you know, pyramids and stuff. I just thought you guys are just on because I had to ask for you the same thing what he certain fire? Okay, I'm a sing this, but so in seventy seven with the dawning of disco and you guys absolutely at your your your the highest heights of of your creativity. Serpentine Fire was such a risky song to uh put out. First of all, it's I mean it's half speed, so it's like seventy two bpms. I mean it's a hard funk song. But are you guys even aware of four on the floor culture and we hated it? Oh wow, so you made a because this we hated it. I'm just saying to this day, I can't even play. Yeah, what do you you don't like? Well, you can missing with trap rap.

Like it wasn't going to where we we hated it, but wasn't going to place, so Reese we had to you know, there was nothing we could do, you know.

You know Donna Summers had all those hits and.

Maroder with his name, yeah Joe, and so our answer to uh disco was Boogie Wonderland.

But that's seventy nine. But I'm saying in seventy seven, like was Walter Yetnakoff saying likes record? Yeah, like I gotta no one ever, no one ever.

Executives didn't ever get in Maurice's artistic thing. You know, they never you know that to my knowledge, no one ever came and said, you know, okay, yeah, you know you should do.

This that or the other.

You know, I don't know who talked him in. I was probably bobbing caval and Ruffalo talked him into the power like though.

I didn't even wasn't talking, wasn't talking to me. Do you remember do you remember recording running? Do you remember what that was like? Yes? Yeah, yep. What was the vibe like in that? Who was it supposed to be lyrics. No, okay, that would have messed that song totally, man too much. I would assume that Body Eye songs are songs that will later be added lyrics. Well, hence what's your name? Telling me? Ali willis telling that about well, no, when she grows September September, that's right. She said that Body Eye was just a placement and then they were going to think of something later and it never got to it, so they just left it, right. I just okay, So.

Yeah, Running is one of my favors. I love that song. Man, y'all sounded that. I love that record.

How did you guys get a relationship with Doug Henning because I'm totally forgetting that. You guys damn near invented black theater and Doug Henning is Doug Henning the magician. He would have been the David Blaine of his day. So a big part of black music culture is taking the Chitlin Circuit or Motown. I guess the Motown Review was the height of black excellence in concert and what many will credit Earth Would and Fire to do that will later inspire Parliament, Funk, Cadelic and then further inspire the Jacksons is introducing theater. So the idea of verdein levitating during his bass silo or explosions and the drums, we did the drums where the spinning drums. Yeah, if Philly wants my aunt cried, you're I guess doing that all the Yeah, you remember this.

Night where we go into that pyramid thing and then you know, it disappears and then the the androids or whatever come up to the state that put us in there and they take their hats.

Off and us. But I think during the intro of the All and altour, you guys came down these tubes. Yeah, and you're on the same.

Or so it's on the same that's on the same concert the tubes and the pyramid disappearing and right, well.

I guess in the Philly show your tube they can go up, so like guys had to run and manually lift you out or whatever, like the smoking, you know, added exaggeration. I guess you thought you were gonna die or something. I don't know. But who, like, how do you guys rehearse that stuff or who conceptualizes is that all duck inning or.

Now you know Vernon with no exactly because he's the totally historian. I don't remember if Doug did that particular show because we were working with several people at that time, all right, but I mean we was working with Doug Henny, David Copperfield.

Really right, right, And so did you feel a certain way did you guys feel a certain way when other acts the Jacksons.

Were starting to levint eight as well and explode and h let me you think, yeah, would you go see shows? Okay, yo, for sure.

So if you're watching the Jackson's like, oh yeah, because I.

Went to kans I flew to Kansas City to watch the Jackson's and all that stuff. Yeah, man, but and it was that was one of the best shows I've ever seen, you know, just timing the production, performances and all this stuff.

It was like crazy. But did you guys feel like that this is your thing and suddenly everyone else is taken a cue?

Like, well, it really wasn't our thing though, to be quite honest about we were maybe we're the first African American band to start doing it, but you got to remember that the rock groups were doing.

I forgot doing it. They were doing stuff all right. Now, I am what are your feelings on I am. If anything, I figure you have a feeling about I AM more than Race. No, I am was still everybody was steal in pocket. The team was still together pretty much. I am.

It's probably the last great earth wind Fire records in your opinion, in my opinion, So in your mind, your classic cannon it ends with with I am, Yeah, because it's all in all before that, well, all in all I Am.

Then Faces.

Oh no, but Faces, no faces, I will say a couple of jam I think, you know, I thought I was just I was really disappointed that Faces didn't do better because I did think it was what happened.

Because all the elements were there, like love goes on, Yeah, all the elements are there. Oh yeah, no pun intended, but yeah, all the elements were there. Do you thing go to that? Fair better if you guys just made it a single album or yeah?

Probably for that, you know when you're thinking about it now. They still wren't gold. So it wasn't a failure and it was a double record. It might have been better if they had done it. Who knows, But I thought that I thought the record was was sound.

It wasn't better. It had movement, They had moments to it.

My first my first actual win. If I record that I own, I got for Christmas. My uncle brought me Touch the world, believe it or not.

That was my first official A young buz fire to babies. But when you have the boys come out for heritage, come on, y'all, y'all official, y'allll official with me at that point, man, I'm glad you said that we got the work. We got dogs. Oh my god. Yeah, it works for me. It worked, It worked on me, It worked. You had me. I was like, because heritage was ninety age I was twelve. I definitely feel as though that album is responsible for why they are the sons of what are they now? Yeah? You know where they are now? Like they're they're they like fire.

They moved Africa, they moved to the continent.

They moved to Africa. They they're the suns of light.

They have locks, long locks.

And where did you guys had an effect on them with with the Herodage album?

Because if somebody plays the flute, one of them, yeah yeah, one of uh talk about the Illumination album, the one because y'all worked with Brian McKnight on the record.

Raphael, Yeah, what was that record, like and someone else record, No, just a Japan edition. I think it was right.

Back before record labels realized there was only one internet, right the dude, this will be out by midnight. No, it's out everywhere. But talk about that record, that was for a lot of people considered like a quote unquote comeback record. But what was it like, what was the chemistry like with you and Maurice working.

It was Our chemistry was okay, but that was it was a very tough time for us yet because he you know, his Parkinson's disease had really set set in and it taken the ability his ability to perform and sing, you know, so he wasn't singing nearly as strong or or you know, in the way that he would want to.

You know, they had he had in the past.

So you know, a lot of you know, I did a lot of singing on that record, and then we started you know, using other people to in in the in the backgrounds and stuff. So it was you know, it had mixed emotions about it, you know, but it was fun working with everybody that was on you know, we worked with on a project, especially Flowa Tree Floaty is on that project too, right, right, and music so child and yeah it was it was fun. That was fun.

Okay, So now let's reach back just a little bit. We we definitely have to get to your solo career because there's a generation of people. You're also an MTV Award winner. I forgot he's the number one man walking on Chinese. Well that was the best of both fields. It was the best of both fields. What but you work with George Duke on continuation, right, I know that's my joint. Uh, that's my cut. Yes. So stepping away from the band, did you think at the time after Electric Universe did that Okay, well I'm leaving the band or it's just like what what? What took you so long to do a solo record?

I didn't actually take me a long time because I was always doing other stuff, especially after the you know, the extensive touring and all that kind of stuff, just to have a different outlet to really, you know, just have my own autonomy.

You were on a Polino da Costa album. Yeah, yeah, and then you know, I did three gospel albums and.

I was going to ask because you got a lot of play.

Yeah, I want to grab me for one of them. For triumph on Philly Christian radio. You were a mainstay.

But why weren't the Christian albums on CBS as well?

It was subsidiary. Oh no, it was on their own word and one. Yeah they were saying, yeah, you know that was a different time, and the yeah, they gave me the right to go and do that on a Christian label.

They didn't have a right marketing Christian distribution and all that.

Okay, I see, So what in promoting those records, how was the the circuit different? Like, well, I toured with Amy Grant, you know that was that was that was fun. That was fun too. I got I got all, I got all my equipment.

So stole the second data of the of the concert YEP in the in Florida, they backed, they backed to the truck up against the h the actual hotel and stuff and took the mission out.

You know, because they because they knew that.

They said, you know this in Florida they were notorious for stealing you know those you know those trucks and stuff. Man, they told that truck away. Wow, they told the whole truck away. And and I had to I was in debt for three four years. What had Yeah, because I had to pay for everybody's equipment. That was my fir of my first solo experience, no no touris.

I think Michael W. Smith did it. He was so funny. Sorry, okay, Michael W. So you gotta tell like, yeah, that was her first husband. Oh I'm sorry first.

Oh yeah, cause she's married. Okayeah, she married to Vince somebody? Yeah, thank you? Whoa what Vince Gil You've ever been married for like over decades?

What? I never knew that. Yo. As soon as they did that song House I Love you remember that, I was like, there's something going on between them two because that song was too good for just, you know, just to be a random question. Yeah yeah, oh, Amy grant Man. It was a period where only Christian radio was on my household, like my parents are just only did Christian radio.

Same here, so same here, and let me back that. That introduced me to Bailey's voice by way of Andre Crouch, I've got the best, Come on, brother. I used to play that song to death when I was a kid.

That's right. I forgot that. And Martins did something with the Hawkins family. Yeah, we both did on their anniversary record. Okay, Okay, Steve.

Okay, I'm sure everybody here and there's the same amount as I do.

But I know, but I feel horrible like all the Phil Collins. No, so.

You and Phil Collins both have the same first name. Was that what's going on? That a coincidence or the marketing scheme?

Why? Okay? Why did you want Why was he your chosen producer for Chinese Wall Wall?

Oh?

Okay, two questions, because actually the Phoenix Horns were playing with him on his you know, on his uh record and tour, and when they played in Los Angeles. I went to the show and and I wasn't really that familiar with Phil's music, but I was very impressed with the songs and stuff, and I was getting ready to do my second record, and so I said, man, it's crazy idea, but let's see if Phil has any songs that I could do on my second record. And the company and my manager says, well, why don't we talk to me about producing your you know, your second record? I know that was his dream, yeah, because so we Yeah, that always imagined a fun Time.

That's the fifteenth member of house fun Time. Fun Time.

From the video, it looked like it was fun. It was very it's very natural, I mean, and nothing, but none of that was staged. They picked me up and from in the helicopter and to the studio site. Cameras were running, cameras running everything, and you know everything. They just filmed everything and we got finished. We sang the song a couple times. They said, Okay, yeah, that's it. I said, well, we're gonna do the video. You just y'all just did it. You ever see the video.

Line are you out of your.

I'm not the y'all, but it's usually the dance moves, like I know, and then when they do believe it.

Back in the day when HBO used to show music videos in between movies, they did, we want an MTV Award for that too. Yes, you're an MTV Award winner as well.

No, I was saying that Phil Collins is notorious for making all of his videos videos about making videos.

He's done it four times. I can't dance like video directors explained to him in the video what you should do, baby, don't you lose my number? The same thing where a video director trying to explain to him, well, let's do it like this, let's do it like that. An easy Lover is basically very like Candid just him and phil uh Philip, Wow, you're right, they both have the same name.

It's like one of the best videos of our time Easy Lover.

Like, man, I remember that song would come on and like when I realized it was both feels I lost my mother?

Do you right give it up? Because that's one of the greatest song intros ever to Wait did we do it? We tried that once. Yeah, he sat in on this on the show. No, no, I'm talking about we uh samp or something. I think during Game Theory we tried to figure out a way to incorporate that intro best intro ever? Are you are? Are your songs allowed to ever?

Be?

Messing and earth Wind and fire shows are not, Like, I'm sure you haven't contingency of people asking for easy Lover during fire You know, we we did for a little while. I mean, like a few shows or something like that, back when Morris Pleasure was in the band.

Because Morris is a keyboardist and a bass player. Okay, so and on that he would play the bass. But yeah, there's so many songs to do until we haven't done it.

So I have one more question about easy Lover. No, No, But were there other Phil Collins songs on Chinese Wall that you can contribute to them?

No, that was the only That was the only one that we We wrote that at the end of the project because it was listening back to everything.

Always the case.

That's always a narrative always, you know, because you know what needs to happen. And so Nathan started that base thing and we just kind of figured it out.

Who are the other musicians on that album set? Let me just look, it's right here in front of me. A special shout out to Children of the Ghetto. I love that record too. So yeah, well you have all the monsters on here. Well you have a lot of okay, of course you have the the Phoenix Orens, wait are Reef Martin? Digit strings? So now now that you're leader by default, right, how many shows do you and you do a lot of shows with Chicago.

Yes, well we've done We've done a lot of tours, uh with them over the last.

Fifteen years or so. Peter sa Terra still singing with it.

No, guy who's singing singing with him now is kind of like a ringer. Though I saw the show in twenty fifteen it was a great show. I'm wearing the shirt I bought at the show. Wait, I do have a question. I saw something that was kind of crazy. I saw earth Winding Fire on ice. Wow, oh right, the production thing?

How did that come to be?

Like, let me see, I don't I don't even remember how how that actually, I don't remember how it came to be.

Yeah, it was just crazy. I was turning the channel one day and at one point, when I think September is playing, I was like, wow, it's it's a weird backing track. And then I realized that earth Wind and Fire was actually a part of earth Wind and Fire were nice question about September. History is showing that that's probably the most loved earth Wind and Fire song. But at the time I wouldn't have called, oh, September is gonna be the.

Well, we must be brothers of the same lives then, because when they got finished with it and they played it for me, I was like, crickets, crickets, Wow, okay, all right, I said, sounds so simple to me. That's the way, you know, because it was just that, you know, because we were so used to having all kinds of the.

Formula by then, and but I was totally wrong. Yeah, people were chosen. It's kind of a controversial question. Is there a fan favorite that you just don't like flat out? Not really besides reasons at weddings? Yeah, not really.

Were any other records in y'all cat out that you thought would be bigger that like you really like but maybe they didn't do as as well as you thought.

Hmm uh. You know a song I really like you should and Love Goes On? Yes, that was off of Faces. I love that song.

Yeah, Now I thought that that was you know, I thought the energy on that was really it's really that to me is classic earth wind Fire.

Actually, I have some questions from a friend of mine who's probably the biggest earth wind in Fire on the planet. Here's one. I'll give you the easiest question. First, how did Brenda Russell come into the picture to write song in my Heart for the Faces album? Oh? I got a song with my heart that one?

Well, and you know, Brenda's iconic as a lyric writer, and I was. I was so excited about I've worked with her quite a few times. Fact, have a little crush on it really, but no, she's very, very talented and uh uh Maurice, uh actually called her. That's how we begin, you know, to work together and stuff. But yeah, and now for the more more difficult questions. Astrology played a big part in the presentation in the name of the band, where the other members of the band as observant of the philosophy as as Maurice.

Was, No, not at all, not at all, and just this must be deep. So let's roll with it. What do you ever like call you know, let's talk about you know, this and that, or like where their meetings, where he was, you know, kind of explain things that he was thinking, or you know, this is what the album cover means, or because there's a lot of symbolism going on on there. So no, no, he never he never did explain.

Uh no, no, you just saw it after it was conceived, Like anytime did the band was like, you know, what the what's all this crap?

You know? Or did it You guys were just used to it. Yeah, we were.

We were pretty much used to it because you got under you guys. You have to understand that Reese had he had the experience, and he had the tenure. You know, he'd been on the road, he had been touring, he had been successful as a writer, producer, recording with with Chess and performed with with with Ramsey. We were just coming from mama, you know what I'm saying. You know in college, you know, so you know, every day was a good day for us. You know, it's like, okay, which way we go now?

You know, here's another easy one besides Milton Nacimento, is am I saying that? Right? Okay? Were there were there any other Afro Latin musicians that inspired you guys? Like what were you guys all listening to Phil? Yes?

Were you guys aware of him in real time or like, no, we were just recent We know we were aware of him back in the seventies.

How many did you guys go to Africa during the heyday of earth Wind and Fire. No, just to visit? Never right, never to play Wow. Wow, I imagine an earth Wind and show and Egypt Dude, dude, that's crazy. I saw you guys like went there so all those like interlusing and stuff that's just like visiting Marie's visiting or that sort of thing. And no, no, we went to to We went to Egypt, you know with all the stuff that in the pyramid stuff that you're talking freaking up. No, we were there. We went there just to visit. Wow, as you know, yeah, we went to visit.

Is that the only country you guys visited in the.

Yeah, to visit. Okay, okay, So today you're you're working on Chilo uh material right now? You have a project coming up. Yeah.

Yeah, it's it's called Love for Finding a Way and it's a collective project of some like great friends Chick Corea and Christian.

McBride Christian went high school Christian.

Yeah, yeah, Camasi Washington, you know, Christian Scott More Jazz Leanings or well, you know, it's a it's a record that we took a couple of blouse on the record.

Wow.

We we took a couple of songs that kind of reflect at the times that we're that we were struggling, uh in the sixties and stuff because we did some uh Curtis Mayfield joints, but Robert Glasberg flipped him, so Roberts you know, on the project, and uh, it's a it's a hot it's a hot project, it really is. It's it's gonna come out on Verve when well we're trying to get a release date.

We had. We were just with them today actually, but it's it was, it's a It's probably one of the projects.

I've usually asked somebody about their new stuff and it's like, this sounds it sounds good.

Who? Who? Who comes to mind after I stutter that impresses you vocally today? Like not not, they don't have to be a new artist. I just mean when you think presently of who's alive and who's still impressing you vocally.

Shoot, you know a lot a lot of you.

It's not new. I mean it could be you know you you you named some names on your album.

Who are your go to? Like when you just want to hear some music? And you know I love Laylah Okay you and of course Balao and who else I listened to attorney. Shoot, it's.

I'm trying to think of who just really sticks out that it's young Goss. Yeah, this is a lot of gospel and I and list allow of jazz stuff, all the young jazzer's.

You're on Astro World. Uh, how did Travis Scott uh come to get you for the album? Well?

It was very quick and really yeah, it it was just kind of one of one of those things that we have the same manager, and so Damien's been managing me for a long long time. In the fact, he was his best friend with my oldest son, you know, back in Denver. Huh sir, yes, sir, Yeah, he's doing well.

Give give him hello, yeah, thank you all.

So anyway, so yeah, you know that uh song stopped turning to be got that me and Stevie guessed on a little bit. That's that's how that came about actually, and uh, you know, rest is history.

Really Wow, impressive, You're still going strong and hypothetical situation because I think as I was going to earlier, I forgot. I forgot I forgot about that. But this is a hypothetical situation. I am going to ask about that though. I'm giving you a blank check.

You can do whatever you want with it, Like you can record whatever you want with whoever you want, wherever you want.

What do you think you would do with that? Wow? That's so huge, Like what what is what is your dream project?

I actually think that I just did it, you know, on this project that that we just did. I definitely think that I that I just did it. You know, to be able to to do what you want to do with the people that you've always respected and stuff, and and to finish it, and people that are listening or saying or having comments that you're hoping when in your in your creating the project, that they'll you'll have you know, it's very gratifying and stuff.

So you know, yeah, I think we we just did it. I can save my money then, yeah, I'm checking that one. And by the way, I loved off the last from twenty thirteen Splashes.

I really love that song. Oh yeah, are you going to ask the Twins question? No, I was.

Any any chance of reuniting with the other Phil for a follow up?

I can't believe you brought up Oh wow. Only bring it up because whenever a set of Twins comes on tonight, you guys play that. That's always the song we played. So we know Twins left and right. Man, how do you you know?

Let me ask you this off cuff, but when I when I was came on the show, how do you guys just like look like you guys are going like one thousand miles a minute.

In real time. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure that you haven't with the band as well, but there's a point after maybe ten years where you guys, just you know, you know each other so well that you're talking like, we're to the point now, I would I would probably say that maybe in five years we get the roots the roots, and I can probably have a conversation without speaking a word. We're now to the point where we know how to communicate with each other with rhythm, like if someone if someone like real bad enters the room like whatever, like we have a rhythm for that, and all of a sudden it stands of attention like which one And then if it's a like I have to do a code to let you know, third row four ups and then no, no, literally, but it's it's we have a language, like we're just you do it. I think the whole point of the whole ten thousand hours of Eagles genius practice thing is that when you do it so much that you're able to do other things and have other forms of communications. Right, Yeah, that's what it really seems like. Yeah, I mean, we have fun doing it, and you know, I guess this is the point where we're just in the zone with each other and we're actually friends. We're friends now more than we've ever been in the thirty years that we've known each other or I'm in a combination of we've all the configuration you see now has as somewhere between like ten to twenty years into it. Yeah, I think there's a point where you just you grow up and then you're you're just friends. So what was it like doing that thing with you that you did with us? You know? Okay, here's the thing. I have two experiences. Okay, so I had the pleasure of working with the earth We're in fire back in two thousand, I think the Voodoo Tour was doing like a week in La so uh, and I had two experiences, one with you in sir, and then one with Maurice. Now, the thing is, is that really really being like green and wet behind the ears and still like new that sort of thing, and talking to Maurice and just like you know, going through our whole fan out thing, and of course I know like how many Columbus you got. It was like that sort of situation where you know, I was basically set myself up for a fall, but you know, Maurice has said that, you know, I want what's in the future, And now I was like talking about sound and everything. The first thing you mentioned was like your your your snare drum sound is real low, and in my mind I'm like, well, that's the sign of class. That's the sound of classic earth wind and fire like you know, deep snare. And he's like, oh man, I won't like give me to day, give me what you want. And I remember being just a little heartbroken the fact that he didn't trust the process that we today are looking to what you know, like, yeah, what y'all were doing, Like that's not what he over?

That shit right, And then I did that. It'd be like if somebody asked you to, you know, get an upright base of roads.

But here's the thing though, now, the difference between you tell me this now and maybe you tell me this back in two thousand and two. I almost feel as though when artists are likesh like I used to do that or that's the old Well, first of all, no one likes agism, you know what I mean, So no one wants to feel like, ah, man was my best work thirty years ago, and I just don't want to admit it. I feel as though maybe it's a fear of not matching up, you know, do I have a fear of not being twenty two year old a mirror that was working on do you want More? In Hiladelph Half Life. So a lot of times we just tend to go linear and go for it, but I feel as though you should go circular. So yes, now today I will totally get an upright bait, he said infinitive Rhodes. And I mean, I damn near work with the same equipment. So I'm lucky enough to one be cheap enough to not have upgraded. Y'all have an upgrade pro tools. Did y'all finally do that? No, it's see Steve one and a half. Steve has convinced me to not upgrade so that we don't lose the vibe. But what we've averaged for twenty years a digital vibe. So I'm saying with you and sir though y'all kind of gave me room to do my thing, so I you know, I'm still pleased with the song. I wish we we we could have fleshed out the song idea some more so, but you know it was enjoyable. I'm always gonna have a great story to tell and it's the Yeah, it is on the promised record. Yeah, So I will say that on behalf is there anything else before? No, no more, I'm trying. Yeah.

I don't let mister Bailey go an see him again.

Hey man, we want to give our heroes they flowers. Yes, no for we we appreciate you coming on the show and this is definitely one of them. No, man, this is the honor. Your music has been the soundtrack of my entire life.

And just be thank you, well, thank you. Let me, I gotta say one thing for before we go to Mouse. That now I hear that Mouse was saying that Earth Wind and Fire don't play their music.

Oh okay, let me no one's wondering was gonna get brought up? Let me say, let me say Mouse's ass. No, what I was saying I brought up. I brought up the difference between.

What on a previous episode a quest.

We were talking about. Okay, so he's talking about the drafting of Heartbreak Hotel by the Jackson and now initially the the base tones and the bass sounds of Fantasy like all those inflections. There have been rumors or whatnot that again that that Earth Wind and Fire was more like a Beach Boys situation where Maurice White, as as Brian Wilson using the recond crew, like using his house musicians to record Earth Wind and Fire records versus the people whom we saw on stage. So we were discussing that theory. But he he didn't say that you guys weren't playing on your records. But we did delve into that for at least five minutes on whether or not that was true or not. No, no, no, But I mean, for the most part, that's that's one of the biggest smoking mirror tricks that a lot of music fans don't know. I mean, for this case in point, James Poyser might as well be an original Route member because he's been there since the beginning. He just finally, like you know, gave up. I wore him out and just like all right, well now you're in the group. But for the longest James Poyser has I was rereading.

The Things Fall Apart liner on the other day and there was all these James, y'all gonna pay me this time, right.

Exactly exactly, So that was it. Mouse. Mouse did not insinuate that, all right, Mouse, you're off the hook. Good, all right, well, thank you very much on be having Moon Ticcolo boss Bill unpaid Bilvison in Action and Sugar Steve and the Sugar Steve Network and it's like, yeah, this is quest Love. Thank you very much Philip Bill for coming on the show God and we will see you next week on Court Love Supreme only on Pandora. Course Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Questlove Supreme

Questlove Supreme is a fun, irreverent and educational weekly podcast that digs deep into the storie 
Social links
Follow podcast
Recent clips
Browse 404 clip(s)