QLS Classic: Kevin Liles

Published Apr 3, 2023, 4:01 AM

Hip hop mogul Kevin Liles talks about the early Baltimore scene, his rise to president of Def Jam and the value of hard work.

Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

Of Course Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. Hey, what's up y'all? List you man, Fonte, Fontigo, New Takolo, Nicotin, Takelo and right now. This is yet another Quest Love Supreme classic from February, first seen pre Roll when we sat down with hip hop mogul Kevin Loud where he talked about the early Baltimore scene, his rise to president of def Jam at the value of hard work, and also a lot of people didn't know his little his very little known role in writing a song called Girl. You know it's true. This is an amazing episode, so listen check it out, y'all know where to get it. Fontakolo, Quest of Supreme classic, Dessert Suprema, roll Call, Suma, Suprema rod called Subprima, sub Frema roll call, sub Prima some sub Prima rogue card and course love Girl Yeah, I am course love Girl, Yeah, I am course love girl. Yeah. And this is true Subprima road call, sub Brima, Subrima road All. My name is Fonte, Yeah, feed me seymore Yeah, shout out to all my yea niggas I and be more. Sub Frema roll call sub Prima subprima roll car name is Sugar Yeah with Kevin Lyles. Yeah, Quest love Suprema. Yeah, don't change that tile rob Brima subrima rog call, sub prima sub prima roll call on pay Bill, Yeah, going wild Yeah, Quest loves Supreme. Yeah, Kevin Moro calla Brima road call, Prima Frema road call. It's like yeah, yeah, having nothing lady. Yeah, but these dudes got damn rod almost road Prima Prima road called. Receiver's whack. Yeah, say it's about Bill. Yeah yeah, I said that ship. Yeah, just keeping it real. Road road call my name iss Kevin, Yeah, I guess I'm here. Yeah, I want to tell you. Yeah, I have no fear. Rolla sub Frema road call, frima road called spell you weary road. Oh that's so much just happened. That's first of coldown. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Engineer All Opinion video. Now calmdown, come to Quest of Smoking. Come on, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another edition our first February Black History month. Bruary to uh Quest of Supreme. Then I say February with a brew. I don't know because I say February, but without the brew. Yeah, yeah, February. It's weird Wednesday. Those are like names that like it's like a black teenage mother name those like. This is all these extra letters in part of Africa's in February comes from I stole that from the pound cake speech from Bill Cosby. Bill Cosby, Oh my god. Uh well you know this this is uh well, it's not necessarily a special edition, of course, love supreme. But we have a very special guest, um who in my opinion, uh, he's the example of true excellence, entireless determination and work and long hours um from interning in the mail room to ordering in the lunch room. I feel like Jesse Jackson in the mail room, to order in the lunch room, to room to meeting firing iron in the boardroom. Ladies and gentlemen, please give it up for Mr Kevin LIUs. Welcome about the welcome man, Okay, I have to say, first of all, thank you for accepting and clearing your schedule, because you are probably the hardest working executive I've ever known. I can tell you know so I do I do my research. Really, I mean to me that the difference between you and another well known uh public figure CEO. Is that you're not about the spotlight. You're the one that didn't want to be up on all the videos and dancing. Can I ask you, once you realize that that was allowed, did you like regret like, well, I'm the one that actually had the hit. I can't dance, So I'm good. No, I'm good. I enjoy the culture, enjoy the opportunity that that that God gives me. And I'm miss a worker, you know, I don't. I think you lead by example. You don't just um do it for the job, but do it for the glory. I think there's a lot of gut before the glory, you know what I mean. So that's me, you know, I mean just based on your history and where you know a lot of your lean years, the work that you put in. Um, I had to also say that you also might be a glutton for punishment because we're gonna get into that. We're gonna get into that. Um take a little bro. What up? Happy February? Happy February? It is it's black history buff right, it's black Wait? Why is it? I thought we were last month? Because because I'm black, you know, I'm real, real black. So have you know just you yea in this room? How your blackness get to claim the whole month on the Kanza episode? Bro, this is still about Klanza because your own that was a long time ago. But we regret that because I had to look up who uh that? Who's the Carina? No, the person that you talked to York Chi. No, what happened on a previous episode was that Fante like to compare the founder of York and that's the that's the rabbit. How come I are you late? Yeah? I was late. I'm also in my forties, so why would have to know about Joey and the camera? Yeah? I only know just from Twitter that you know. That was how I found out my research on Quae. This is why because I'm black. I mean, you know, once Chuck Woolery agreed with the Fante then and we'll be back into Okay, okay, okay, anyway, Mr Liles, Um, we usually start with the timeline at the beginning. So you're you're from be more correct, yes, be more You're claiming Baltimore too, I'm I'm sorry, sir. I should say yes because I went to Morgan State, so every city when in Baltimore, don't. They're very different. Well, cousin the cousins, you know, we were family always like each other. Shout out to Buzzy. You know, I'm I'm I got a lot of family in d C. You know, a lot of family and be more. The whole d m V is like I've made my tracks there, so you know, I love all of it. You know, you know I'm coming. I'm surprised you still have your Baltimore accent, like I still hear your twos and you you cut me up and I'm be more. You know that. That's just what it is. And I've been accepted, uh here in New York. I've made a twenty five years, so it's like, you know, I'm getting New York to you know what I mean. So, but you cut me up and I'm being more forever. I didn't know that too. And you that's a joint, that's a join or that's I don't think Baltimore has a dawn. It's just the what do you call the you know what? Though? Okay, not that I should hold near and dear what. I don't want to be that person that references the wire like well, on the wire, I saw, but I actually heard Snoop's character used the word John when describing UM like wiggle it jiggle it came on young. Wait was yes he was? Did you sign him? No? You were still there? I was there, Okay. I thought because of Baltimore you were there. Okay, Well yeah, basically like Snoop use the word John. She might have said Joe because Joe is kind of like but no, she meant like, that's my joint us that to yeah, Yo, you know, I'll use yo for everything. Yo. I thought you was a New York thing as But I appreciate you because you you still go back. You would just at Morgan like writing that recently, Like you constantly go back and get back to ye And I try to tell people you're nothing without bringing people with you. So I just go as a beacon of light. We're raising two fifty million dollars for UM Morgan and if you go there. When I went there, you know, we stayed at Commings and now it's like one of the top you know, five universities for engineers, the number one African American UM University for engineers, you know what I mean. So I'm a former engineer, so it's as a blessing to go back all the time. My whole family is there too, so it's like the most up north HBCU as well. Yes, yes, man, you are really giving back, Like I feel bad, Like I think I gave a drum set to my high school. Whatever bore you are there? Yeah everything, Yeah, that's my my city. You know, one thing when you come from humble beginnings and you know, like I tell people, most of my journey comes from real life ship you know what I mean? So like I didn't, I've been in it. You know, you talk about the why that was my that was the error, you know what I mean of like my uncle's and everybody and and for for me to be here and um just talk about it, still talk about my city. UM just recently keen on Compiter, who went to Woodland after me, younger than me. Um, I built the stadium. He would always play for the Falcons. He came home. He would always do a class for kids who wanted to play football, track and field and things like that, and developed a great friendship. And one thing about Balding. If something ever happened in Bottleware, I get it. I get it. So not to start off in but you know, I always gotta be spiritual. Um. So he was playing for his son and you love this quest um in a way. Um, but you also it was a sad moment. But playing for his sign, made a mistake and hit his head, went into a coma and that you know, thirty nine years old past. Now I tell that story because when you talk about Baltimore, you owe it to where you're from, to always go back because something it's gonna happen to somebody at some point in time, and people need light, they need something positive, they need something. One of the reasons why you do the show, you know what I mean. People need light, people need guidance. And you know when people speak about Baltimore, that's like that's my city. That's like it's really my city, you know what I'm saying. So to me, um, I just love and I don't know how I went there. And then I guess what's on my heart? So fuck it? So how did you? No? No, no, I mean what I want to talk about that like my depiction, Like I used to go to Baltimore a lot, Like I had an uncle and aunt down there. We go like summertimes, you know, weekends. There's sort of things. And I didn't see the Baltimore that's you know, depicted on TV. I mean, like does it do you feel some sort of way when you hear the I guess there's somewhat fetishizing of the Wire culture with other I mean the inside joke is always like more white people of the Wire than black people, do you know, like they will. I've seen many Wire references in every like highbrow comedy show on TV or whatever it is. It's always like some inside joke about it. But you know, it's a lot of people the Wire is like what they feel is Baltimore And like how do you, I mean, how did you? What was your Baltimore you growing up? And and like your experiences with the city all that, all that, all that, um, and I have to be honest with you. So when I grew up, it was probably highlight you know, well the dope scene, you know what I mean, um, and you know, if you want, it was there. It was everywhere. I always say, you know, you have the drug store, the a could lick a store, the church in Thedulk Corner. It was there. That's that's there. So that's what people talked about that's what people were. You want to know how to make money. You wanted to be with that guy who was on the corner. He always had the money and he was giving back to the kids, and that all everything. You that the wire trold a true depiction of what was happening, and that that the city at the time to the point where when it got to where people are saying it's the home of the wire. Um, Martin O'Malley, who was at that time mayor about to go for government, a friend of mine said, um, that's not what I want us to be known for, not under my you know, my jurisdiction. And he actually went who was one of the guys to say, hey, we shouldn't go, you know, we should stop it and do something. And from that point on, Rich Carton Four Seasons turned the whole in a harbor. JOHNS. Hopkins invested into Feld's point, like so many big things that Morgan State went to a different level. But you know, to say, why I appreciate life and why I appreciate moments, you know, even like this, is because I come from very humble beginnings. I said, I didn't grow up with a silver spoon in my mouth. My ship was rusted, you know what I mean, So I know I know what it is. So it was like that. Though what's crazy is Martin O'Malley was really depicted in the wire as Mayor Garcetti, who was very yes, Martin all and these all people, you know, we're just retired up. She retired herself up, Senator mc kowlski um and you know you I'm forty eight now, so I've seen it, you know what I mean, even from a very young age, you know, back um mayor smoke. Back then, I was always thought that if if you had politics, if you could put yourself a position of power by being around that. And so I've been with every mayor, governor, city council member the whole not Also when people got in trouble, I can get them out. I could always wear some things out. So it's a it's just a you know, it's it's the truth. Though I love the Wire, though I loved um. It was a homen in cultural uh history to me um for TV, for Hperio. I think it was one of those soprano moments for our culture, you know, with the wild So you saw places and those things and just you saw memories and you and I need to go. I mean, you not need to take a walk in Baltimore. And I'm being the the way I'm being serious about because I think, um I could, I could show you the owner new I can show you some of the stuff that was happening back then where it's happening now. But also mean you can go have tea at the Four Seasons, you know what I mean? You and I can go and visit Johns Hopkins and and go to the Moregan and see the new engineer and building. You know what I mean. Yeah, I was gonna say, is it going through a gentile yes occation? And are they phasing out the residents or is it inclusive? Um? No comment? Oh no comment, because my apartment was fo I see. Now let's take let's take a walk this year though that definitely I would love to do with you. I'm down you join us, like, yeah, I would love to. I love to see where Baltimore is gone. I'll go. I got people in Baltimore. Okay, you can call if you go down. Yeah, don't everybody. I'm just me and Bill go. But we're standing in harbor cool me too, So in your your where does where does music play? Because before I mean, most people know you as an executive, but um there there might be millennials or whatnot. Uh, I don't know that you were actually an artist yourself. So what was music music's role in your life? And did did Baltimore really have a music culture? Like well, I'm okay, I know that there's this whole d M v idea of this unity thing, but you know, for most people that I speak to from d C, they're just claiming Go Go and not Baltimore. And then Baltimore is like claiming house music and nothing else. And I'm not sure where in Virginia North Carolina falling down. It was just everything. Yeah, so you guys had an active Go Go We didn't. Well, we had it, but it was it was transplants. I mean, the thing with North Carolina was that, you know, back to what Kevin was saying with the the drug trade, Uh, new North Carolina was you know, it was on the route if you were going south, so pretty much and we had where I grew up in Greensboro, we had like a lot of college It was a college town, so you had a lot of northerns coming up and going to school now South and they were bringing the music with him. So go go, I mean, go go was like crazy. I mean college was the reason to Yeah, so a lot of all the go go then, I mean all the classic you know early eighties, you know New York hip hop stuff. I mean that's what we were listening to. So that was why, like when we came out as a little brother, they were like, y'all don't sound like y'all from the South, and it was like, well the South there we were from. That's what we listened to because that was that was our biggest influence. That's coming down the seaboard. Baltimore Club though our house music that didn't make it. The Baltimore Club didn't make it. I didn't. I didn't figure out the club until it was later because that was like really hot, I know what I know as Baltimore house music that made it sort of entry in the hipsters lives, like two thousand to two thousand three. Was that always a thing, always a thing, always the things? So how how far back it depends when you saw you go? I mean like so with me, i'm an I started uh m C. But also DJ the whole thing with New marks. Uh. We had ten turntables and so we would mix. We would do our mixes with ten turntables, you know, I mean something. I would play the bass beating the people scratch records over top of it and blended and we went around during that. And then the whole rap thing came with run DMC and thing and it was like yo, my man said, yo, you wrap. I said, now I write poets. He said, well, I rapped, so we're gonna be brought in KG and I was KG and I was like cool. And then this was back when Uh in Baltimore there was a group called We Rock Crew UM, Charm City Crew UM and a couple of it and we would battle all over the city, you know what I mean. And so UM, I don't want to say the house music thing. You know I did all that too. I mean you can go like North Avenue record, I maade about the street that we used to I'm running or down with the cars. Um. I love that because that was Baltimore music. But what was really in me was hip hop UM. And I was like a true fandom. I lost my mind when I heard some records. And you know, so I can take you back to when the radio station was w E B B and all they played was for four hours the Mac James Show. Two. Now every radio station time at the station hip hop and on B it's it's all day, you know. They played every day, you know, I mean that's everywhere now. But back then, I had slept on the floor, mixed wrapped. I opened up your Love This, so I think my record got a little big or whatever. And so l L was coming to place called forty six or four Liberty Heights, and so I opened up for l Out No I'm one. Somebody pulled a gun. They started shooting in there and up in up judgment with Tar, he said, yo, y'all crazy. I said, that's how you girls don't. Don't worry about it. So but not just him running him. See, I opened up for salt and pepper. I opened up for um raw Base rab bas Uh and the vert I went on tour with. I mean, like when you when you talk about it, it's like, that's why I know how to treat an artist, because I know what I know how I wanted to be treated Will Smith. They actually they would actually let you left me. I was big in the city quest I was big I'm arena arena. Throw your hands in the I was arena big Well no, just like today, artists, I mean not even today, like you just come in, you get on the mic, and then you out, like I can't remember the last time the BI I met a little brother because like the Route show got rained out and I was like, all right, let me walk into artists and shake some hands. When I was yeah, like I wanta got the demo and I want to tweet about it or tweet it. Well, okapelaired about it, but uh, I'm just saying that what what made you well, not what made you want to in your mind where you like, Okay, I'm gonna be a diplomat to these you know, for the city and and give me these artists. Or it was just like hip hop was so scarce in the mid to late eighties that you just had to know every m C or act that came down. You know what, you know what it was. I ran the streets, so it's like I knew everybody. And then the promoters would tell artists say, you're gonna do the show, but we gotta put this group New Marks on because they local, they're gonna bring about you know, tickets and things, so you should put them on. And the way we used to run because we DJ on the radio for four or five hours and we used to do shows. We kind of like ran the city when it came to music, you know what I mean. So it's like they just loved having us open up. And then me always treated it like a business, you know what I mean. Wasn't about me hanging out with people or just meeting somebody. I wanted to have a value proposition, so I made sure when artists came down that they felt like they got to be more love, you know what I mean. It was something special about them coming down. So one artist would tell another artist that, yo, them kids, you gotta they can take you where you got to go. They can get you anything you want and they don't. So that was really my my mindset. Who Al was in New Marks Who with other members of the group UM. The one of the original founders was DJ Spen. He still plays House of Music today, UM shout out to Spin and UM beat Master Mole was a kid named Wayne Mallory. He's married in Florida. Junie jam was one of my neighbors and his cousin Rod was Rod Rod and KG you know me. So it was five. It was five of us. And when it kind of it was at the time I could I can truly tell you man that you know, being from Baltimore, and they had had a certain sound before the house music thing was hip hop and they started to develop back. I mean Crystal Waters and the Basement Boys and all like. This was all stuff that we did. Um I'm coming up. It was a place called Paradox that people used to go to for for club music. But then Frank Ski, which you know, you know, he used to do this thing called hammer Jacks. Hammer Jacks is a club like it's like a house of blues. But it was in Baltimore. And when I tell you we brought you know, and I started interning for Death Jam that I brought everybody from DMX Man Method Man Blah blah blah, everybody at As even when I became the president, brought everybody would come. We had to do Hamma Jacks. It was like the spot and they see we had to do. So you know, although I was you know, I grew up on the house music, hip hop was always like part of it, you know what I mean. So I always try to say, Yo, guys, we really gotta I gotta have that edge with us, that the thing with us, you know what I mean? Even though I did the Girl true thing, it's still like, you know, you gotta have that edge, you know what I mean? All Right, I wanna let's let's bring up the elephant in the room right now. Let's all right, well, let's play the elephant in the room right now. Let's do it. So what are you doing that? Well, set back and thought about the things we used to do together. They really meant a lot to me that you're talking. Yeah, yes, you know, you know it's true. You know what, even even though I've heard the on and off uh since I found out that you were the author of A Girl, you know it's true. Um. But in preparing for this interview and listening to it about a good three times, that was a well crafted song. Thank you. Now, this is the other thing, Uh, everyone knows about my soul train addictions. And I happened to be watching an eighties six episode of a Soul Train with Star Point and Don and then we're talking about you know, they were just making a big thing of Merland and Baltimore and everything, like, you guys the biggest thing to come out there, and then yeah, you know what I mean, they were embalancing like yeah, you know, we can't even walk in the malls all people, um, and then made at the end of the interview they were like, yeah, we you know, we want to develop more acts and everything. Like they really played it like they were the bell of the ball of of Baltimore area in a and I mean, you know, they had object they had hit. I think they were promoting the next joining he wants My Body or what was the join of Teddy Riley? I want you, you want you don't, you don't, I can't Teddy Riley produced their adi A joint. But my point was that, like, were there being as though they were the biggest act of the eighties, were they at present a presence at all in and were they at all in your radar like during that time period. So you you want to hear the craziest thing, there's a god star pointing named Kai Kai did oh I love you? I wait what seriously he wrote the lyric exclusive exclusive Wow wait a minute. I I just thought my whole point was that, like the start point was really claying, like yeah, we just we're thinking Baltimore. I didn't even know that y'all cross baths. I was just did we cross path? Bill Petaway Um who works with Timland Now, Um had this, let's tell you a little bit about the have this record this track. And you know I was a rapper, so I wasn't really didn't write the songs, so you know I do all that. But um he said, Yo, we probably need KA to help us do say. I didn't really know like that, you know what I mean? So he said, yeah, stop myself. Oh okay, cool, you think I said, let's right there. So he wrote that part of the record, and it's wanted to. That's why I say that the group I had to give them paid respect and and the other other group was Rasons, you know what I mean. Dave Druma, the drummer for Rasstions, was my engineer from my first album. I may actually made an album too, but we can you can look that up. Like you recorded in the oxing Hill, Maryland right, oxing Hill, Maryland Studio Records. The last record it was made in ox in Hill, Maryland. All Right, I gotta do more homework. I have to do more homework. Actually wet. We don't, we don't, we don't have yeah, shout out to the war. Um, so explain to me the journey of girl. You know it's true, um for our fans that are born after nineteen Um, I mean this song was bigger than life and basically pretty much it was one of the biggest singles of of for the Aristi label and caused an empire, Like just the the entire story, Like I want to know the journey of the song, but then I just want to know what your reaction was that you helped build an empire and the fall of that empire and the scandal that broke out, And I mean, how many times were you like but that to me, like how many people came up to you like I thought you were a gazillionaire because your song? First of all, why didn't you or did you like how close were you guys? Did actually trying to bring this to a major or or take it to a major label? And because it's a well crafted song, so for a local record, is a very well crafted song. So his the thing it was inspired by I need love, I'm taught. Um I UM, I wasn't doing it to be a big artist like that. To be honest with you, you know what I mean, I was doing it because on purpose, or you just didn't think, oh this song could actually with a hundred kids through college, or honestly it was just another another record. It's actually another record. I love more than it. But um, when creating that record, I knew it was special. I knew it was special. Every time we would play it, people would just freak out over and then I knew when we performed it, it's like the whole crowd saying yeah, I knew it was special. So we sold like a hundred thousand copies with Studio Records. And I remember, um, I'm home chilling and with this girl, and I said, they've turned the readio off and she said, that's not the radio. I said, what do you mean, it's not the ready off? She said no, I said, baby, it's the readio that I don't have a video for the record. She said, I know that's not you, but that's that's that's your record right there. And it was really really performing my record. That's how I found out on TV. So so Frank Ferrian for those who don't know, going in there. All right, So here's the deal. So Frank Ferrian was Reducer and a member of a seventies funk outfit called bony m. Um. Steve's laughing because he knows the story. I'm gonna tell what a side note. I once thought I was hired to do a bony m record and the round was bony James. Now I can't get rid of my BFF. But at the time I thought I was doing a bony M I was like, wait a minute, smooth jazz like Marcus Miller anyway, Um, yeah he I guess he heard this on a German ninclub and an army base or something like so. Um. Unbeknownst to me, my label Studio Records, we're getting calls off from all over the world for Greg True the new box and instead we want Chrystalist Records came and said we want to you guys up. I didn't. This is this is all I found out afterwards to the court and he uh, he said, well, I want money, and so he wanted to cash advance and Bluebird, whoever the label was, gave him the money. But Christmas wanted to develop the group, but he didn't care about that part of it. He cared about getting money. So the label you released it on wasn't your label, per se no, no, no, okay. So the person who's the head of the label at that time was a guy named Franco something. I forgot his name, but he uh sold it to Bluebird. Bluebird didn't distributed to z y X and the uh what what do you call that? Denolux countries, UM and Japan was on some label and Frances on some label. And in the club they were playing my virgin of the record, and so uh c w Shaw, who was an Army veteran, he was in army. He sends me this long letter. You don't know me. Um, I actually sung your record, um and millivanilly singing acting like they singing there. He actually I got a letter from C. W Shaw who actually said I'm the voice. So he's that guy that's singing and rapping from from Houston. He said said, I love you guys. I love your version of it. Um. They came and asked me to resing the record. He said, it's not out yet. And so now this is when the record is eight team many copies and I'm working on the second album. You know I did I did that one girls too um, what's my Diane Warren did blame it on the Range. So we think about what we're gonna do next with the next album, and then the whole thing thing blew up. You couldn't have wrote the story, you know what I mean. You couldn't wrote the characters in it. So Diane Warren did blame it on the Rain on New Walks first. No, no, no, no, no, I'm saying I met her because I had Girl you know, which was the first single, and she didn't blame it on the Range. Only one voice for Millian that was a one. I didn't even realize that that that was one man. No, he did, he did, he did. It was really two of him, but I only know the one. Uh c w shock, so shout out, you know. He he told me about it, but I didn't know what was going on. I was making money because I sued and got my publishing and my writer's stuff back. What I'm saying like, they didn't even clear it with you. And I woke up a girl said that's you on the radio. I want to on the TV. That's how I found out, and so I had to get a lawyer. Yeah, hurt beyond and I wouldn't. I wasn't mad. It was that how can so, how can somebody do that? Like And it was that that moment that I said, I don't want to be in the music business. I want to be in the business of music. It was at that moment and I changed everything the whole Folks. That made you want to get behind the camera, behind in the boardroom instead of in front of the microphones. And I never wanted to happen again. I never wanted to happen to to anybody again. You wanted to be this person because you wanted to protect someone from getting gangd and and well from from the situation that happened to you. Like, yes, it really made me want to love the star. Started to see things differently than I would go to a show and say, damn, that's a lot of glow sticks. I wonder how much they cost? Damn um the tickets prices this, And I would start thinking the business of everything around me. And so that's what made me go back and said I'm an intern because I didn't understand enough, you know what I mean, how how long for a situation like that, especially without the Internet or something to help rush the process of information I mean, how long was it of you crying wolf? Like? Wait, I wrote this song, I wrote the song and getting an answer and eventually getting to Clive Davis or like, I can't even believe that they would be so careless as to release a song, market a song, sell the song without checking to see if you know, do some research. Everything's clear. It's like with us, like even if a miniscule sample, is it? Wait that laughing in mirror? What's that laughing on? That? Is that pink Floyd? And you know, like you're you're you gotta So how long was it from the moment you heard the record in a eight till like they finally did right by you and said, well, I don't think. I don't think. I don't think people ever did did right. I say, you don't. When you do right, you do right When you have to sue, that's not doing right, you know what I mean? So? Oh so that was the last resort? Did you the first resort? Oh? You just okay? I'm phil Asbury. Shout out to phil Asbury, Philadelphia International, phil Asbury. Show them what it is to be you know, don't don't mess with kids, because I was. I was when I wrote the record. I think I was sixteen. I don't even remember, since you're right on my record that was when the album came out. Okay, so I'm not sure. I'm not. It's somewhere around there. Um. I think I wrote it through three originally, me and my my partner and you know, just a weird time. But I never I didn't. I didn't play with it though it wasn't It wasn't. It was something I felt like, like you said, y'all, you had audacity to not check do it? So? Eighteen million copies? And then did they try to deny it? No, you could. No, they just well, we live in two thousands sixteen, where the lies the truth, we are not least right. So it's definitely I forgot where we were. No, I'm just saying, you know, the lot could be the truth. And you know, Black Hid in Baltimore says we stole song like it was a little bit and isn't it a shout out the cloud? And sad it was never. I never faulted them. I always fought to Frank ferry On always faulted uh Steve Franco, the owner Studio Records, because I might be sitting here as an artist. You know, I mean, if if they would have did the right thing, you know what I mean, I could have never did for Green True what what reliving really did for Girtes? True? You know what I mean. I'm not wearing tight pants, I ain't jumping up like that. I mean, I'm not doing this and all that. Those things that happen, and so I think God makes, if anything, this is kind of a blessing in the disguise it was. It was, and I always tell people, if I had to do it all over again, I would allow it to happen because a lot of things came out and I made a lot of money at a young age off the record. I traveled the world. Off of the record, I opened up for people who eventually were signed to me. There I developed friendships that to this day we're raising kids now, you know what I mean. Became the I became an intern. Was Arica come the president in seven years of Definitely because I knew how artists should be treated because I was one. I traveled, I did did everything that they could do. So to me, why would I want to write it differently? I couldn't. I couldn't imagine doing nothing to it. He had just still the next one too, if you want you know, all right, this is of course of supreme. We're here with Kevin Lyles and he's telling us the story behind the song he co wrote called Girl. You know It's true? Um so am I to assume that New Marks kind of imploded around this time as well? And nah, so you guys still went strong, Like how long did the group last time? Well, we went from five members down to three members. And when we became me and Rod and DJ Spin and we started to do quote unquote more uh Baltimore music along with hip hop stuff that I like. There's a record that we put out. One we made put on label because we had a little money and called Marx Brothers Records, And there was a record we put out called Dropped Down to Your Knees and the record we call do You Want To? And they were probably the last records that I made. But we kept going and doing it. And then again, what made you well, what was the deciding factor of the straw that broke the camel's back? Like maybe this isn't the route to take and I should do something else. Um, the MIDI Vanili the milivanili thing really paid to play the role in it. But then the internship at deaf Jam. Um, yeah, so how does that happen? Like you're at least a a compensated established figure, and how did you how did you get in the sights of Russell Simmons for him to say you're gonna work in the mail room? Was it just a joke test for you? Like you know, I'm gonna start you at the very bottom. And literally remember Jack the Rapper, Remember Impact Wisconsins. I used to go there and be the mad Rapper. Why why I know? I want to sign me. I sold records. I did this, y'all know, that's why wouldn't I was mad, you know? And then I ran into uh my mentor, West Johnson um Gard rest his soul. West says, um cab man, you know when I was in Balton used to play your records. I said, yeah, welst, I know he used to play my records. You know what I mean? He said, you know, I'm the senior vice president of marketing promotions for Death Dand I said, get out of here. I said, well, sign me the def Jam. He said, I don't really sign in promotions. I said, well, give me a job. He said no, but you can intern. Now what you said, I was making money, okay, I said, intern intern def Jam intern. Cool. So west Johnson said, you know what, I'm had this guy into. He said, by the way, we're hiring a guy named Kevin Mitchell from Boston. This is the kind of guy from from Boston, and we're gonna put him in the mid Atlantic. We like him. Um uh, and you could intern from him. So I said, Kevin Mitchell's intern. Kevin Mitchell's intern, Kevin thing. He's gonna let you know Kevin Mitchell was but for the roots if you know, of course, like no routes are listening to my radio show them about this. Um when we signed to Geffen, I mean basically because there was no staff, but they had millions. Um they did some unheard of ship which basically here, you take the credit cards, show us the receipts. Don't overspend like again, you know, dayls record was made for like twenty thousand, Cyper Shiel's records made for sixty. They just gave us an open credit card. And also like two employees from loud r c A and three employees from def Jam, which were Francesco Spireau, Derrick Jackson, and Kevin Mitchell. They would they would uh moonlight uh with Geffen and my. Our experience with Kevin was that he was Mr McGoose. He was blind. He was the cartoon figure that had bottle glasses when he's driving. One night he was just asleep at the wheel and we were on the other side of the road like in dumb and dumber, like he just somehow wound up with oncoming traffic at three in the morning. We woke up like like we were going to die. So yes, but Kevin Mitchell is my man. Besides trying to kill us. He was. He's a really great friend and and still a friend to us now. But you were his intern. I was Kevin's intern, and it was so it was you. You love the story. So keV didn't know Baltimore whatever. So keV hits me said West West said you're gonna help me out and say, Yo, yeah, whatever you need West my man. Now again, I'm making money. I'm good. I'm worried about it wasn't the money thing. So Kevin called me said, Yo, I'm downstairs at um at V one oh three, but I can't get upstairs. I said, you can't get upstairs. So what you called me for? He said, because your man is one Frank. I said yeah, I said, so you're calling me to get you upstairs and that's your job. Now they're paying you to do this. Now, I had a little attitude about it, That's how I said. So I called Frank Frank yo my man. He one of us here gooding me. And Frank Frank was my wedding. That's my my guy guy. So he he said, Kee, I'll see him whatever you want me to do, blah blah blah this, and it was that moment. While I always paid respect to Kevin Mitchell, Kevin got on the conference call. He would let me listen on the conference calls to to learn. Kevin said, my intern is gonna run the company, and you're all can act crazy if y'all want the because the ship he can put off here I'm and so that's really how he let me. He let me live and I did work, but he let me live. You know, I mean, all right, I'm gonna let you know something, um because most of the into the street folklore that at least people my age know about is the story of of Sean Combs getting on a train every day at Howard and going to New York every day, and you know, outtown records, blah blah blah blah blah. But I'm gonna tell you something. There's two stories I always heard that set or at least set me on the path for how I dealt with interns. You don't even know this. You don't even know this one was you always heard stories of James Brown. James Brown used to always tell like all his band members, find the lowest. He would call him the coffee board, the water boy. He says. They I guess the term intern wasn't out back in the fifties or sixties, but James Brown used to always say, find the coffee board the water boy, and make him feel like he's on top of the world because one day, in twelve years, he's going to be signing your checks. Um My my inn or Wendy Goldstein told me a story where she was like, look, we're gonna have to do real grassroots stuff. It's not gonna be glamorous or whatever. You're gonna do these college radio shows and stuff, because then we have lofty goals. It was nine four. You you've seen all these videos and everything, and you're like, well, when's our when's our Hype Williams video moment gonna happen? And you know, we're like nineteen to a van and all this stuff. And she just told me, like, look, patients, stay the course and whatever you do, always be nice to the interns and the lowly people because it's gonna pay off in ways you don't know. And she told me the story you know Kevin Long he wrote, you know it's true. It's still was there. She would tell me these stories of like, I guess your reputation is that you would show up to work earlier than anyone and lead the latest, just to let them know. And she told me that, and like that stuck with me. It's not like I was like, WHOA, Okay, well would be nice, but because it just always stuck with me. And I'll say to this day, every CEO or ahead of a company that I've ever done business with, at least in the last ten years between two thousand and six and two thousand and sixteen, and I've done a lot of business like pay my mom a house off business, they it all starts with the same story that I forget, which is, Hey, I don't know you don't remember this, but this is one time we were at Brown University and you know, I was intern at this college radio station and I asked you if I could do it, and you gave me like a nine hour interview. I want in five minutes. And that's because I always remember really shocked the host of the podcast. Yeah, well I'm okay, I'm I'm chatty, but I'm not. I'm just saying that Havin, Kevin and Wendy and Press, Jessica and Derek like always tell me make sure that when you go to these coustters you treat the intern like that stuck with me and you were like always their example. So I mean you entered death Chair when so this period um days, man, not quite. I feel like it was the last I feel like the last good year of the the old death Cham. I mean, you know it's kind Yeah that was not for real. That was classic logo depth jam mare. That was the last period. So when you were there, what were your duties as intern? Well, you know, I was still in Baltimore, so it was whatever Kevin Mitchell needed, you know what I mean. And at that time we was Death Comedy Jam was coming and all these things were being created and Fat Farm and all it. So, so Russell was having you work all of his products, not just yeah. It was to shut them down, remix and make sure these DJs get it. You. We used everything for everything. So we used to do radio programs where we fly people into Death Comedy Jam. So I five all the program directors, artists, everybody in promotion. They wanted to close the wear so it were giving fat Farm, you know, So we we did that. Everything it kept evolving, so it wasn't and it wasn't worth quest. To be honest with you, I got to wear so you wanted to remember names and shake hands and kiss babies, and I wanted to make people feel like they met me, not like they shook my hand. But what was the end game for you? Like back, if you're like, okay, I'm meeting this figure and dada, da dada. Are you thinking down the line like one I'll start my own label or not? I just I'm that's a different dude. If I'm cooking, I want to make the best meal. If I'm intern, I want to be the best intern. If I'm um rapping, I want to be there. I just wanted to be the best, So I never thought about being the president. Do you think coming from Baltimore that I would be the president of CEO? No, nobody knew me. I don't have a half family in New York. But the thing is that because you were kept, because that you were Kevin Mitchell's intern in one and by you're the president of the damn label, that tells me that you had a very marksman like determination and ambition. I'm sorry where you Oh no, no, no no, I don't mean like in in a in a a give you get some point. I never I never wanted to be president. I never I never knew what to be honest, which I never didn't know what it was. I thought Russell would be there forever I thought I thought Leo would be. I never knew that was attainable from a kid from what told you? All? Right? First of all, is that folklore I heard that was true? Mitchell would say, like you'd show up at eight in the morning like most people get into ten. I'm serious. So what tells you I need to be there at eight thirty am every day before everyone gets there. I went to school to be electrical engineer. My scholarship was from Nassau. I wasn't playing with from Baltimore CEP timing Now I was. I was again I was UM. I guess I was a cool NERD you know that I always wanted to be the best. And I remember when I came to definitely was the joke that I would say, oh, come in when I came to New York, and I was like, why people come here tender? Not my clock? You missed the radio stations on twenty four hours a day, seven days a week. Why you what do you mean? And then by time you get that, get your coffee? Had a water cooler moment to lunch was there was there a teacher's pet kind of uh uh scarlet letter attached her shoulder like uh, you know Kevin over there, Like, no, they're trying. They try to throw me out the building. A couple of times people would tell on me. I had people flip over deaths in front of me. Um. I had somebody tried to get me fired at Howard because UM, I left them because they were late and I had to get the group to the radio station. So I don't play that. What I'm about the group doing? What they're supposed to do. So I left them. So they sent this long letter, and so I had to be you know, being an engineer, you know you you do weird stuff. So I had to write a response to that letter. Mine was like this, this after everything, every single thing, it was, you have notes weird tho I kept it was weird. Oh ship, you know what I mean. But but but I tell you. But it taught me that all the engineering I used to manage a telemarketing office of four hundred people three different shifts, taught me how to orate, how to communicate. Um engineering taught me to be be thoughtful in being an artist. That's taught me how to treat people how you know I want to be treated. And so I would really work hard. Like I said, it wasn't easy because they tried to throw me out to building. I remember my first mistake, well, now my first thing, well one of the mistakes they almost got me looked at crazy. I did a show with Biggie Small, method Man, Red Man, Onyx and somebody. But I did it in a museum during howard home coming. Logo on the building, Death College jam on the Building three hundred thousand dollars later, after they destroyed the play Your Guns, I had to explain why I would think doing the show in the museum. Explaining the rational so I said, well, first off, nobody would throw showing museum, and I think hip hop is art. Hip hop deserves to be in the museum. Secondly, I feel like if you shine your logo like a bad time, people come to it. So I had two thousand people out inside and another three thousands of people outside. Thirdly, I thought by having Biggie Smalls and method Man performed the what for the first time I had this opportunity to I thought it would be a moment the time honest never been in the museum, so it was just a moment of time, and and and Lea said, what did you learn? I said, I learned that I would do it again, but I would have insurance. And what does it feel like twenty years later when Picasso Baby comes out and it's like, I'm I'm only I'm only telling you, like, it's like, so yeah, but I never wanted to be That's that's not to interrupt you. Sorry, Um, I never wanted to be president. A matter of fact, in nineties six, they came to me and said, you know, we want to make you president. I said, but I don't know the world. I don't I don't how can I be president? And I don't know the world. I don't know what hip hop looks like in London or in Paris, and in Japan. I don't really know what it looks like. So I need more time. So then seven came around and it was like, yo, you really have to we really wanna you know, And then I said, you know, I'm ready now okay. Uh. There's a common denominator for this show. We're still a baby. Uh, and I feel like next to uh Stories of the Tunnel. For New York Rappers, the second common denominator is the lee or element either imitating lee or or kind of what yea? What has Leo ever thrown anything at you? I don't have to believe you saying this question over here? Question. So of course you you got to work in uh pre yoga Russell's def jam, Uh, maybe lunch storing leaders def jam? What was okay? Aside from working in Baltimore. I mean, I'm sure there were a few times you stepped in the actual building in New York Elizabeth Street. Yeah, I was there I was when Russell used to live on top of Tower records. You know, I mean I was. I was. I was in Baltimore, but I was doing so well that they would say, come up to New York and help with this program, or help with this or see you work outside of your markets. Yeo. I remember Mike Haser love my man. He said, Yo, I had my life and shat can you come up um and get the eighteen pass Devan and and bring Whodini down? Do you know who didn't want to know? The death Dan? But we managed him rush. So I actually drove up came to pick the group up in there. And this is how like again, I didn't have to do it, I'm the intern, but it was a way for me to meet Hohodini, get it in the rush, talk to people and do something for us, somebody who was a friend of mine. Gosh, you know what I mean? So I did that, you know what means to me? It wasn't so what was what was the building? Like I tried to ask Faith. I tried to ask Faith Newman this question. And she's rather diplomatic and not too descriptive. But for a person, and you know, this is not It's not about like throwing people under the bus or whatever. But it's just that I've heard so many stories of like def jam but between in nine or pre PolyGram, So the Christmas parties, the you know which which models now working in the room, you know, during the whole Griff jd L situation, and all the guards that had to be out front and all that stuff, and just like what was it like, give me a deaf jam, an old politically incorrect death jam story, Like wow that you want to get arrested for? Um rock and roll? Man? I mean, I mean every every bit of everything you could imagine. Um we were. I never really considered it. It just it was it was really when I tell you rock and roll, everything was happening that could ever happen. I'm gonna give you a story I was trying to get just like when when the routes finally got to like the industry, everything just stopped, Like everybody was like vegetarian the party and you know the word plutonic gotten just you know now listen, Uh, All I can say is is this, there were no rules. You were morally incorrect, period, There was nothing. The only thing we would know we had to do was work hard. That's what the mindset was, work harder than anybody else. But when I tell you I Sawdom go more that I have seen so much stuff and and but it's I understand we were kids too, so we and with money and you know, growing and people having for people growing up together. I got friends. So I've been me and was twenty five years now. So he was twenty three, no, thirty somewhere around there, and I was twenty three. Think you were an intimidated by Lear because I even I even people that love and respect even people that respect Lee or if I first, if I gained the trust and first mentioned his name, I'm in at least a minuscule I roll happens like le or like the thing like people have their Have you dealt with Leo when you guys were Atlantic, we did. We had a meeting with him. Uh it was um interesting, I'll be real with you like I mean, and I hopefully we haven't on the show. He probably remember the joint. But for me, my meeting with Leo was very much to bring it back to the wire. It was the canard that's omar. That was my moment. I was. It was like that's old because to me, like he was like we were talking about um. It was around the town when our album, I think Mistell Show had just came out, and so we had a meeting with him and it was just very impromptent. We were just like in the hallway and he was like eating a sandwich or something and he was just kind of standing up. And you know, again from seeing him like in documentaries and stuff, he's like a very like intense, like he looks like that kind of guy. But then I met him and he was just like, oh, yes, so Kanye drive Slow. I loved that song like coming Here, and I was just like, oh yeah, that's a cool song. But our album about to come out, Niggle what you're gonna do? And so it was just you know whatever. I remember it was me. It was it was always it was three of us, me, Pooh and Ninth and manager though, and then James Lopez who used to be and he was there, and so we just had that brief interaction and then we walked off and I remember asking James, I say, man, what do you think that? Yeah? I was like, what do you think it's gonna mean? And he was just like, man, I don't know, and that was it, you know what I'm saying. But that was the only real time I had had amuseing whenen but the times I had just that one instance. And then he came to our show the opening night we did at UH at BB King's UH. It was like I released Party or something like that. I can't remember, but we were on tour when the album just came out, and I mean sold out show. How many minutes? How many minutes did he stay? Yeah? Um, I want to say he stayed for like a good he stayed may be calling like the opening set. He probably called like the first fifteen twenty minutes, wow, I think yeah, because he could you want to know my president minute? I think I think jay Z and Beyonce watched one verse Ship Theory and I turned what happened? You said? I came? Yeah? They yeah, they yeah, they he gave. I want to say, I don't know if you were there. I know the time that me and Kevin was when we did the UH. It was a listening part and it was somewhere downtown. I can't remember, but apparently, like I remember, the fire alarms kept going off that night and we had to cut it short. But that was the first time that me and you had met outside the office, and I remember you came up and uh but yeah, I mean my time working with him again. This is post ninety you know, everybody you know, stop start doing yoga, stop doing coping ship. So it's different. But so wait if you if it interest in quest of supremea I've been doing. We're here with Kevin Lowns. We're trying to get uh Cohen stories. The thing is, I you know, I respect Lee or I know, like it's basically I've I've heard everything about Leric Cohen. He's liar Cohen, or he's an asshole, or he's a good businessman, or he's honest with you. Um, I mean I respect because the people in my circle are so blunt and so you know, just outright with what what they are like. They don't hide the truth or anything. I mean, I can respect that. So for for you, what was it about Lee or I mean, did le or intimidate you in the beginning or I always say, man, it just must be some brotherly love or or such respect. Um. He never and this might be sounding weird to you, guys, Leod never yelled at me, what did you do to not get from Baltimore? Maybe he was, And be honest with yourself, what was the perception? What's the perception of you as you're slowly First of all, how long did you intern before they said this guy is kind of valuable, let's cut him a check. Two years? It took two years for them to finally and you didn't complain once he paid it already? No, I didn't. I didn't like it really was. I was doing it for the experience and I had to be honest with So if ONYX is throwing oranges at you because the shifty single didn't get out of the MTV or something, you're not having a they don't pay me enough for this moment, Like I looked at it's not making fun of you. Because I looked at it. They were all they were all counterparts to me. They were colleagues. They I wasn't working for them, and I just looked at it differently. It's like, yo, I know what you need, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna get it done. I'm gonna make sure. Because it was like but we I like felt like I'm living. You understand something once you're an artist and then you get on the other side. Um, I'm really living through all of them. So the songs they make when they're throwing the guns and there and M E. T A and the red I'm living. I would be on stage. The joke is even to this day. If you ask for one of my artists, they where it's Kevin stage right. I said, would always yo, tell me what the libe you need me to make? If are they jumped in the crowd, I would jump in the crowd. After I was just I was just a fatherly kind of like, yo, we crew. So I never I never looked at it like that. The time I got was kind of funny when a Kevin Mitchell was moving up. You know, he did such a great job in the mid Atlantic moving up to Nashville. Take Bob Barbato's job mix show. So they said, well, Kevin, um, you know you should come interview for the job. I've been interning for two years doing the job and you want me to come interview for the job. Cool. So engineer keV had to come back out. I put my whole package at my briefcases, put my suit on, got my whole discover for me of everything, everything I did. I go up there. I'm sitting in the room, so everybody laughing at me. Yeah, I don't have suit. Was in the briefcase. I said, I came here to take the job. That's what I came here to do. I'm wearing showing them everything that I've done. And it said, well, you know, good interview, you know great, and appreciate all the paperwork. One month go by, two months go by, three months ago by Uh, I'm starting to feel a certain way because I know it's nobody better than me, especially in that area. Nobody, nobody is better than me. And that Philadelphia, DC, Baltmore, Virginia. So then I get a call. I remember Julie calls, but it says, um, Kevin Lows was at a marketing gig. She said, um, um, this is Julie from Deaf Him, you know, West's assistant. Um. We we think we want you to we want you to come work with us. I said, great, I said, She said, we want to pay you thirty thousand dollars. Like you realize I'm making it up, Okay, I said, well, I said, well, um um, I can work with you all for that. Julie said, no, you'll work for us for that. That's why Julie story yet so we it's I just never word about it. Man, what about the money? Anything to me that's interesting to hear because at least for me leor Lyles, Julie sometimes Mike, like, all your names are synonymous with each other. So you guys all started together at Deaf Jam minus Lee or at in lower positions like when Julie came in? When did she? Julie was West's was Julie was interning and working at Rush. Then when when Leo went over to Deaf Jam, Julie came was working with West assistant Leo a little bit and then started working with West. Um Mike Kaser was working at at Tower Records, and Russell lived on top of tower. Wait, that's how Mike got Hirard. So he said, yo, um, you do you do a good job with that? You know you want to do? Ready home Wait a minute, exclusive, I'm editing the story a little bit, but that's he met his mental records and we that's how he started. We read it. We remember said I was in Baltimore the UM. I remember them saying, yo, you're gonna do rhythm radio and I'm like, well, damn, rhythm radio is white. Why do you give it? Said, why don't give it them? But they put guys in the desks, and so you're gonna do rhythm radio. He became one of the number one rhythm radio you know people out there, And that's that's my Did he have experience? He worked in tower records, you know, that's the that's that's the trooper. Yeah, but you gotta understand something with so every time Julie went you know me, we were like brother and sisters, you know what I mean. So it's like that's like family, like people talk about. I never lead. Is the kind of guy if we went to war today, he's gonna be throw me the fucking bullets. I don't take offense to that because we're at war. I understand, and it's intense that I understand. I don't. That's not you know what I mean, not no idiot, I say, that's he that's never went there with me. And but here's the other thing though, when he looked to his right, when he looked stage right, you know, he ain't worry about that. Even that's the difference. I'm not I'm not I'm gonna be there before him. I'm gonna make sure everything's right to this day. I'm gonna make sure it's right. Russell. I'm gonna make sure it's right to this day. They changed my life. They change the traject three of my family. They changed. They gave me first generation money, so so I might always pay respects. Here was did you really did you have a relationship with Russell? And where is Like if you think def Jam, You're always want to think Russell Simmons. But you know, I know that in ninety one he had sort of this octopus vision of developing the clothes line and developing uh definite comedy jams like but still, uh, I know that the higher upset Sony, we're kind of in different And then like, can you explain that the R A L period because the rust associate labels period? Because from my point of view, as a fan who always read Billboard every week and charted stuff, I always love the fact and kind of hated the fact that you guys def Jam used to formally flaunt Well, you know, we've only been out for five years with five artists, and you know it's just like L L the slick rick and that's it. And then the third base and then that's it. And then one day was like all these Rust associated artists came through the door resident alien and then yeah, so with all with suddenly like twelve to thirteen acts to deal with and kind of losing their uniqueness? What it do? You know what the environment was with with with with Mantola and Donnie and the Sony higher ups with def Jam and what caused the eventual exodus to PolyGram was next correct? So what was that period between one and three where things were a little cloudy with what made that jam wants just the powerhouse that it was like? What was what was that environment like? Especially like with you and Russ were you more ale or guy or a Rust guy? Like was Rust the Beatles and le or was the Rolling Stones? And you had to choose? You never had to choose because Russell was the visionary um Lee or was task with. All I wanted to do was be the greatest recommend He didn't care about fat farm or comedy and that wasn't his thing, you know. He really wanted to build a great American record company UM and at that time he was he got the Rocks. So Russell associated labels quote unquote Russell and Lee or I never knew that it was Russell, but the rest of the leal so um, it was just before it's time. Now, I'm gonna sound kind of nerdy here. Sometimes as visionaries you try to put things into play that it's not just time. We didn't have the infrastructure built to support uh a quote unquote associated label venture. But if you think about four or five years later, after the infrastructure stability, people came to work and all that kind of stuff, we were able to do ROCKEFELLERMA piece. It was. It was a great vision, but the two earlship too early at the time because the infrastructure. It gave me hope. The infrastructure wasn't right, But it was those days, man, Like I said, everybody want you know Rick was gone and everybody wanted to prove they were the next and upgrade an R and this one knew this one. But the real fact that most of the artists that I've ever signed in my life were referred to me by other artists like, wait, we're not going to get there. He left me, did you? I'm saying like that. That was really like, if you think about it, um to me a six degrees of separation. You you wanna you got E P and D on the road and his kid current uh scratches crates. His name is red Man. I mean, I can you know Shokazulu, who we both know worked for me, was at the college radio station. He had a friend called, um, Chris Love a Lover who was on the radio, and he wanted to you know, time out. You lived in Atlanta as well. I transferred from Morgan and went to seek for Bright Street where he was. He was against Chris Love a Lover and poon Dad and La La. I don't trust nobody that has more than twelve addresses. So no, it's like, um, so I always met people through other people. Um, And it wasn't until the whole research thing came that I started to see things outside of the people that I knew. But I knew everybody who knew you could touch somebody with any you know. We just uh, I can't say. But there's this kid that's going up someplace right now and we just did a big didn't a deal with him, and it's, um, we heard it somebody said it was popping and we got it in and got it you know first. So it's like it's changing now, but I really believe we gotta I gotta kid Johnny Stevens from Holly Suspect rock band, number one rock record right now. I believe he's going to find the next star. And I believe that we did the deal with Young Thug for y s L. I believe that Young Thug puts out so much music and everybody wants to that he is. And so I just believe you believe in connectors and bridges. Yes, yes, that's an important thing. It is important. Um So when de chim what what was the what was the transferring from leaving Sony to PolyGram? Were you at all worried that you guys might lose your casher or your uniqueness, or that it might go under or having to deal with like who is who is the motol and the the Donnie Iron of PolyGram at this point when you guys go there, m hm, Wow they hit of distribution? Was Jim Caparo? I think who is the Wow? I really, honestly, I can't remember. Damn is that bad? That bad? My mind? Is that bad? Um? Okay, you can remember. Let let me tell you what I never you put you put Leo Russell together I don't see how you fail. So I never did it. Didn't see. How was it that Sony just didn't understand them or no? I think it was we who welcome. You can yell at people so much to a point where um people and you understand, this was early early days of our culture, you know. And so you're going up into Tommy's. Has there been a Tommy Lee or a moment of sandwiches exchanged? I never said, I never saw it. Heard about some conversations, you know, I heard Russell flipped over a couple of deaths and things like that, but I never never experienced it myself. Phone. Okay, so I know that at least my perception is that in ninety four, the the anchor record of that year that really established def jam too the next decade was Orangees album. Now it was written, let me tell you really what it was, the first record we released from Colombia to PolyGram Domino. It was Saturday morning. Yet yeah, okay, so by that point, you know, you were heavy at least in your your knowledge of East Coast from you know, the Baltimore I would assume that you were the d m V guy, the Tri State area guy. You might know down South markets, did you know West Coast at all? Like who was there to really let you guys know? Or was it just like the chronics ripple was so strong that it was like we gotta grab whoever guessed it on Dr Dre's chronic record and give them a deal. Now, Like, um, I mean, I'm say I can't put it so you can me open him hip hop? So in w A you couldn't talk too short that I'm It's like I was a fan. I was a fan. I'm young still, I'm a fan. So to me, wait, I just want to say, as an East Coaster, I want to meet a person that had my my viewpoint on what the West Coast was because I wasn't getting I wasn't open to West Coast hip hop. I mean until I mean I heard the police and like I gave him. Okay, I'll give you guys an exception and ice Cube working with the bomb squad, But like, for the most part, there's no way you can tell me that the West Coast was going to outdo the East Coast ever culturally or sales wise. And then suddenly one day it was like New York just lost it's it's it's Steve, But why can't you tell I never looked again. Well, I was young and dumb. I'm weirdo. Because I looked at it. The story that needed to be told needed to be told by different tongues, and a Baltimore story in New York story. There's still a ghetto story in the West everywhere you know, never where you go. And so to me, I really looked at it a storytelling. Uh. No, one was a joke, but then it was the police, but they both saying kind of the same thing to me. So I really looked at it as storytelling. And we went into it with def Jim West Um, Paul Stewart. UH hired p and P hired him. Um. First record I think was this is how we do it. But prior to that out, this is how I learned the West Coast. There was a group called a guy called Mellow from Compton and a group called South Central Cartel. Yeah, there was original having. So they said they want to do a West Coast promo tour and they loved how I put together promo toys. Uh, and so I got in a car. We went from Seattle all the way down to San diego over to Phoenix in Colorado. You can tell me about that. I know, the West Coast. I wrote the Bible of what should be done. But I hung. I was in Compton. I remember my first year. I'm gonna tell you sorry, gonna let you go. I'm in Compton and it was what we called but you know, dead version of the bodega. So I'm getting some iced tea. Back then, then bottle started shaking, so like this. So I'm like, who the fund is back there? What the fund are you doing? I'm I'm mad, Like, yo, stop working with me. The lady said, I'm in the middle of an earthquake. And that was the north Ridge, the Big, the Big. So you was in the corner store. It was Compton. Say, why are you saying everything? You know? Every reference the goodness? I don't know what I told a story but that. But that's my love, my love. I lived there twice in my life, and now I appreciate storytellers being able to tell the no matter what it was. I just appreciated people telling the story. So, I mean you had no Internet back then. I mean now anyone could have the power. I mean the power that you had googling something and finding out, Okay, where can I, uh you know, where can I promote this record or hang these posters or or bring my group to meet those things. But you you're saying you're writing the Bible on this, Like, how do you who's giving you your research to know this particular market, that particular market, this particular market like touching the people you taught you? You you find a hot girl and the god the hustler, and you go and you go to the mall. You say, well, y'all going to this was real. You generally like people because because we were to take and we were to take a question of supremes. All right, slight detours special. Do you like people? Oh, sugar ste do you like people? I love good people. I hate ship heads. You're lying out already know you hate people everyone? I love people, you know I do? I love people? To Bill, do you believer? I don't believe anything? She says. I think you've lived in too many places to tell this. I think I think I think unpaid Bill is the only person in the circle that actually but you know what I think I mean from my people now, I'm with you. I love you guys, But I'm with you this what's the same hell as other people. But no, I think from listening to what he's saying, from what he was saying, you know when you're talking about how it wasn't about you know, I plan to be the president. You just want to add value to a situation value proposition, you know what I mean. And so to me, like I'm in that way, like I don't do I like people. No, but if you give me a job and say do this job, then I'll do what I gotta do because I want to deliver on the job. So if I got to go talk to people, if I can't just look oaks, how many followers through this nigger guy, like I gotta really actually do that, I would do that. So it makes it makes my joint is like, all right, my my goal And that's not like a thing where you're thinking riches and on stuff. But in general, my thing was always like, yo, I just want to take care of my mom and sugar steve reparations for the diabetes. Just take care of my mom. Put out some fires. Yeah, and put out some fires, which basically take care. If you're black, you're a you're automatically taken carefully seven to fourteen people in your life just to put out the fire, you know, Uh, like, did I think back in Okay, let me oh, I'm gonna be on the late night show one time? You know? No, hell no, I didn't. Somebody sees that fart. I get you not seeing that, but you do kind of have this live each day to the fullest, connect with people, remember names, you know, and never burn a bridge at like I don't hear uh Kevin Liles stories like I hear and I'm gonna get to the you and Dame history, but I never hear Kevin low stories like I hear Simmons like is he really that nice? As not even nice? But I mean, like your reputation even even if like like there's not even rumors about you doing someone shady or any of those things. I'll tell you so some people would. Here's here's what I get from people. I might not remember everybody's name, but obviously it's like like tonight, I have to get something from each one of you guys, or why be in the room. So I'm meeting you and sharing things, and I'm meeting people all over the world. But obviously God put me in that place for reasons. So I have to share a part of myself. So I wear my heart on my sleeve. And when you wear your heart and your sleeve, you fear none. You just don't worry about You just make people feel like they met you, not like you. Just But what about the ship heads. You're not talking about the ship heads, So so let me tell you about ships. I met a couple of ship hits. But but I even understand them. Some people, um, that's the only way they could survive, um and so. And I'm not trying to get philosophical. I just I just I really believe that I was put here for a greater purpose, and that purpose might Jesus. Jesus walked amongst the thieves, the killers, the liars, um to make away ship. He is cool, y'are. You're not gonna change You're not gonna change who I am. At a matter of fact, I'm gonna work on being so nice, so nice that hopefully you understand that you don't need to be as much of a ship hit as I wish. I knew you that my first anyway, I want to get some motivational speaking from lids, like in the morning. I want to wake up exactly. But seriously, how do you maintain that is that is that motivation? Motivation is meditation? Was that you Is this hindsight speaking or is this in I'm not okay now, I want to get to the artists you have to deal with because or you gotta put on that ship to you right, because I'm saying that as an artist, I know the the plight of the artist, and I know the plight of employee at the label and management company. And some of the biggest clashes ever mankind are are with artists and managers or the other side of the table. So that said, uh, okay, now that def jam Is is ten years old at least in this timeline. How how are the older established or minus l L who actually weird enough had the biggest mark of his career ten years into his career. I mean, I assume that Mrs Smith surpassed Mom said knock you out as far as comebacks are concerned. But I mean, at this rate, a lot of your first generation acts, you guys are dealing with Slick Rick and his his jail incidents. First of all, how how did you guys even manage to get eighteen songs out of Slick Rick with six weeks of his life before he's about to do five years or right, like what was that? What was that period? Like? Um? I was that was more so like an intern period. It for me, you know, um I was just coming up. And the Slick Rick story was. Rick was a storyteller, so he just knew he had to do write a lot of records and it was he would know he would listen when I when I tell you Rick and the Rick is a good good friend and and I'm hoping to answer the question right because I'm gonna go ou outside of Rick. I think my job at that time was to preserve legacy with those guys and understand that that tird you put the D N def jam in public, geting me, you put the E and def jam Slick Rick, you put the F and def jam. You know I had to so I treated them like that. I didn't treat them like they were old. I didn't treat them like they were yesterday. I treat him like they were important and today. And this is why to this day, you know, Rick and Mandy A call mean and say hey, we just want to tell you we love you. Tired to say yo, you know, come me and Simone doing this chucka hip me and said, yo podcasts with you know, I still get and and so that moment and I remember when um we did behind Bars he was locked you know, yeah, the orangy you know, um that was my ship and I love that joy that was how did y'all do that? How did y'all make a record? And then I did it again with Sean when he was behind bars that I did his uh that the Godfather Buried Alive or something like that. Yeah, Um, I did it. And when they're recording under this drest like how I'm just trying to figure out how are they able to even produce uh results with with with that imaginary guns in their head like they have to. I don't think when you when it's when it's argument is what you do. It's like saying telling a guy you got to build a house in um instead of a year, you gotta build it in six month. It might be impossible. He still knows how to build a house. And so I think that I think that at the end of the day, these uh, these kids, I think then the day they felt that they decided to feed their family. And when you when how you when you work in the feed your family, you're not writing records? Right? You surviving? You know we'll speaking in behind bars. I gotta give a shout out to the Warrangry remix to of bars. This is behind bars or on quest of Supreme. We're here with super Guru Kevin. You are bro check this out this morning. Gee, you know what I'm saying. Chill them with my man slick Rick, you know, and we're gonna give you all a little tail about that jail stuff. You know. So Rick, why don't you running home? Get down? Innocent lord played with he wasn't having anything. I was raised the blades and supposed situation seeing Roles. Hey, your money was sidespon me to one other sprang up that was behind bars by a slick Rick. That's right, the Warringy Remix behind bars on Quest Love Supreme. Um, there's one question I don't want to ask you. Um, so by this point in that I can say that you're safely in the defam office not intern um. What was what was you guys reaction to music in our message by public enemy? Because I remember the day I remember the day that ursa smith and uh well back when Set to Run, you guys had so many Rush associated companies. But when Ursula became her own uh publicity firm, Uh, she was our first, the roots first publicist, and I used to just always hang in her office and she called me in, says mir, I got the new Public Enemy album. You want to hear it? And that was That was one of the most coldest days ever because because every Public Enemy album from Nation of Millions, well every there was three four I forgot even even when bum Rust the show, Like every time I listened to a Public Enemy album for the first time, it was such a life changing moment and for me it was like, wow, can they do this to me for a fifth time? The no, the answer was yes, but it was it was in the wrong way. But in hindsight they were onto something because they were five years before the rage against the Machine, you know, rock rap thing. But I mean I have the same reaction that had the same open mouth draw dropped. Are they allowed to do this? Like it was such a radical album? What were you guys? Please be Chuck has been very honest about how you guys felt about it when you got the record. What did y'all talk about I didn't know what to do, like Chuck played in front of you guys and looked at your faces, or just like I didn't know what to do because because at least with Apocalypse, when you're like, okay, I can work with that, you know what. But but but but here's the great thing about writing about deaf Dan. Once you proved yourself, who am I to judge? That's where we're going. I don't know what to do, but okay, we're gonna We're gonna see what it is. Well, it was also well not the second to last album, because that was he got game. But like there was there was just no precedent for I mean, there was the Goats, you know, the goats who were economising, they were rocking the wrapping and raised against the Machine, had one album out beforehand. But did you guys at least have a warning that you know, because by that point, even even though I mean, WU Tank still wasn't a fully formed figurehead and you know, the group that we will worship. So in my mind, like publicanmy still had run DMC status to that point in ninety four, and then I don't know, maybe I just felt they were so angry at Were they angry at you? Guys? Were they angry? Was it just like a lot of inga a lot of anger? Um, what was the relationship like? Because I would think that they were your crown jewel, like you know this, this is the group that gets the white critics respect, and they always they always would would be the crown jewel. But you you gotta understand, Um, when when your kids and you grow up together, Um, sometimes a big brother little brother thing comes into play. And when you finally got a point where you sold the Left records, you want to do what you want to do too, So a lot of that has to have to come. You gotta They were young kids, man, you're talking about back then, you know Todd fifteen sixteen, and they're going all over the world, you know what I mean, public enemy you know, people with them, people not with them, people against them. People they're fighting wars that you know, the Griffin. It's it's so much so you had to allow that to happen. And when I'll see and talk to you about it. But when a rock act or a pop act when they make that album that you don't what's that? We just say it was just a time for them republicaning at that moment again, they would early. I'm with you, they were just early and we wasn't built for that. We just wasn't built for it. And that was the and but that was the expression. So who were we to judge? Was their disappointment and their end of you guys not finding because even then I just thought like, oh, they're over, they lost it, and I had no clue that it. Later when I found out, like, oh, because Ursula, their publicists had to figure out how to market them, and somehow she got glowing reviews out of Vibe magazine and and well tore roasted them with like a two star review of Rolling Stone. But for the most part she got a lot of rock, alternative fresh love that I wasn't even expecting them to get. And thus they started slowly creeping in into alternative tours out the norm. That opened up another lane form, right, not just raps. It was like like, oh, okay, there are c white people and rockheads that want to hear bring the noise right this stuff and I didn't. That was that was the message. Two. You could you could in hip hop create many lanes. And what they did was you gotta think back then, nobody was thinking that even with Beastie being what it was, nobody would ever think P would go there. You know what I mean, you got a certain thing from P. You know what I mean, nobody ever thought they would go there. But what what I just chuck was saying, um, And again I can't quote it because I don't remember that this is where we are, just where we are. One of the more amazing, uh comeback stories in my mind for death cham Um was that Mr. Smith album and i'd I personally didn't think he could do it a third time. You know it's like no, well, it's like yes, initial well his initial l l elness run And even though I was a fan of Walking with the Panther and you were the only one in the room. Look, it came out the last day of school. It was a special woman and I graduated. That was my soundtrack at the summer. I like dropping him. And then and then uh, you know, Mom said knock you Out was like the comeback, even though we weren't supposed to call that. And then you know, once the thing was I read the source review of of of fourteen shots at the shot which you know, yeah, back seat and how I'm coming. What was the other scene? But not that remix. The remix was not on that record. The remix wasn't had the remix was on the record, I would give him something different, the right I would get. But you know, I mean, the legend is that Russell lost his mind at the source of review and words were exchanged and all this stuff. But all that happened pretty much. People counted ll out, and I guess he wisely just stayed silent for a year, all of ninety four. And then the first we saw him with his new ball head and stuff was in the Flavoring Year remixing. So was there was there a marketing plan to two bring LLL back? Or was it just like here's some spaghetti and throw it on the wall and see what sticks. Todd And if you speak to him, he'll tell you. Let me tell you something phenomenal, phenomenal. He like his good Luck Chump and the Smith Mrs Smith, you know Garbags last. Um that was the last Todd album we worked on together. UM because he left UM soon after that. Um. You gotta understand something. L L cool Day is hot A usually DJ man. You couldn't tell me now, No, rapper. I was a fan fan, So you mean to tell me that LLL No, that's he. He was HiCon to me. I I wanted to Todd, So there was no way that he was there. He was that. He was always going to be this to me. To me, so I treated him like that. And you're saying this, I mean you're pointing up on a higher level. He he was always that to me and so to me. I never looked at it as um him making a comeback. I thought every album was an ex ferimentation of where he was as an artist and certain things he tried. You know what I mean, because even knowing fourteen shots, you know, I was trying to tell your back it's back seat is the record, you guys, is the back seat is the record? I said that Pink cookies, what we talked, talked, we gotta have a conversation like that back seat we I said, we had that real conversation. But it was um, um, I have to be honest with you. UM. That is why today, UM we're still friends. Because we went through every moment that you can go through. I remember when when um he dropped headstrong, Uh yeah and uh he he uh. That was his last number one album, two hundred thousand copies, and he called me and said, you always believed in me. You never stopped believing in me. I'm gonna love you better, he said. He said, you never stopped and until this day, just so I never looked at it like come back and come that. I never looked because again these were they were friends too. So what you know now, did we have to go to work? Do we had to do things differently? Do we had to go see different Yeah? We had to do that. But that's what it's all about. To me, That's what evolution is all about. It's not about I'd rather have the hard time. How about this? Let me do that because you can remember me. You're gonna know I went there, was with you the whole time. Figured it out. So for for a record like Mr. Smith and for the potential singles that had had Uh, there's one important element in the story that we kind of didn't mention, which was the the the uprise and the power that a certain New York radio station had, which was Hot nine. I hope I'm allowed to say that, you know on my own show Panto Scott, Is that allow? Okay? I just need to be technical. Um, not that I would expect you to give me the dirty low down, but I mean, by this point, especially with coming up in the right, what's the telecommunications that? Yeah? God, what a paralegal you. You deserve your own noise, a fact check and the fact checker. I know that you guys were playing the win. I know that by this point bad boys really established trying to dablished themselves as as the sheriff of the block. Uh. Oh god, I didn't even mention death row. Uh. You know there are other labels that are vying for that number one spot and we know that. And for the most part, Uh, in an hour, you could probably squeeze in six to seven songs. You guys are starting your muscle period at least of of you know of about to you know, so what, But I'm just saying that it's true though, you know, is this some Mars Levy Part two? Things like how do you muscle radio to stay on your side? Like? Is it like, yo, I'm really feeling that song doing it? Okay, I'm gonna just play it a whole forty two billion times? Or is it a new level of shaking hands and kiss some babies that you probably can't technically get into like has that ever stopped? Uh? Let me let me say this to you. And I couldn't say this, not one thing of what hatten any seven without without I'm telling him he's acting about we talked COT seven right? Well yeah, I mean, well, you know, we live in New York City and I'm hot. Ninety seven is the station that if flex is feeling it, then chances are that the ripple effects gonna happen. And this guy in Cleveland is gonna play it, in the station in Seattle is gonna play it. But the thing is is that I wouldn't believe that. Okay, a fan is calling in, Yes, I need to hear doing it by l O like again. But let me give the truth though. So like you, you're you're a guy that had hits, You have hits under your belt? How do you make your those hits keep coming? And that there? And I mean like a song for you, A good day of radio rotation is how many times at its height, how many times do you want your hit song played a day on one station? Is it thirty five times a day? I don't think any one particular record will play thirty five times a day, because if it did, it would play thirty five times seven and whatever. But but let me give you this, and I'm not this is not a hostile got your question. I just I just want to know that the science of how like for me growing up and remember radio, it was like the DJ wants to be the cool dude, and hey, I'm gonna put you onto this record. Oh I might play this album cut where now it's like, I don't think you know you guys are a label with frown on an album cut. Like if it were up to me, Mr Smith, I would play that no airplay is you wouldn't no, I see, I would play the Eric Eric Surton remix something I actually girl, you know it's true and didn't get caught and I don't want to mention and get a lawsuit on that. Okay, a record like doing it? What are you expecting? Hot nine seven? How many times do you want to hear it in a twenty four hour period? Heavy rotation? I mean, is that eighteen times a day at least? So I think at that particular time it was probably most price sixty two times in a week. So if you so, you're going by a week you're not going by daily because you because program changed over the weekend. They go to weekend programming. It's like it's different stuff. And back then it was call out, you know what I mean? Where if the record called out? And it still is now and now it's PPM and all these from kind of metrics and um that are going on. But I have to say what people forgot and what we try to radio was the last stop with us. Okay, we're doing it. Quest if you came to the tunnel with me and heard what Cap did guard rest his soul um and the walk in our and then what Flex did doing it? Drinks got spilled every soon as that beginning came on, it was and we made all make sure all our records that we went to radio with they had to get. We called it the tunnel tests. If you plan between twelve and three o'clock in the tunnel, get at me dog when we dropped me. So we knew it wasn't um gonna be a big radio record, but it lit the tunnel up. Redman, the method man, the uh no no no water rock water. There's the two verses in the but you go when you went to the tunnel place. And so my thing is, so, who do you have to convince at whatever radios? And I'm not even gonna sing ninety seven? Who do you have to convince? At? First of all, are you at this point talking to a clear channel person who control or who controls a hundred sass across them? Are you not? Back then, so you had individual individual program director. So back then it was Steve Smith and Tracy Clardy at Hot ninety seven. UM. Today is THEA mitchem and Ge Wears at Pole one oh five. I'm just from New York. I mean there's a lot of but then there's now there's clusters too. So THEA runs a cluster, and there's Doc Winner who runs the Urban Cluster fall of clear Channels, UM, and then there's uh J. Stevens for Radio one UM cluster, and then Ken Johnson and Foot's one of those down the south whatever. So it's it's clustered now, but back then with individual program directors, the music directors. Okay, so I'll say a few episodes back um we have former president beaten former still president and BT. Sorry and Stephen Hill mentioned, uh one of his regrets when he first worked at MTV was that he probably could have lit a fire under them to really give more support to your all. I need to get buy by Method Man and Mary J. Blige And now in my head, I was like, wait, that record is everywhere, So of course he's like nope, He's like, it could have been even stronger. It could have been so much more bigger and way ubiquitous. So for a record like that, you know, how do you convince? First of all, why would people resist? Why would people have resistance to it because it was just an unorthodox sounding street song or I think the Method Man had more to do what people didn't go immediately on that record was just like, oh, this is an instant hit. It was an instant hit. But you gotta understand something. So back then, um, people wanted to be safe and Method Man wasn't safe for them. That wasn't safe. The record was safe Method Man that the personality also, Yes, listen, I had a record. Um, so I'm gonna give you uh uh. I would say what you know? Me goos right now, bad bad and bui your life has changed for you since Donald Glover a long time ago, during the show a month or two back, gave a shout out now and shout out to Donald Glover. So, um, we couldn't get me goes on late night TV. Mh, I'll talk to you about that. But we couldn't. We couldn't. I would love them magazines. Um, I couldn't get certain things. And so the group was like, well why can't, why can't we? And then a moment happened and now everybody's fighting over everybody, And so I can only say this to you to say Radio didn't see them club. There was a club group. You know, Raio didn't see him a certain way. TV didn't see him a certain way. And you gotta think about method man at that time, he was kind of dirty looking thing he started to That was the moment we started to clean them up. But I thought he was be accessible. But can I just say, just for the record, somebody a pretty told me once that the Roots didn't have enough personality, Like if you really think that is not like that, it's like really, And I was like, what are you talking about? I told you that, I fighting, Like what are you talking about? Love does this? And you'd be surprised that the whole personality thing just well that's the thing, like what really determines a hit, like can we because you know, I came from an era where it was like, hey, if we just get somebody sings some R and B hit, you guys are gonna have a hit, and that's not necessarily the case. And then you know, it's like if you fall into a nepotism loop. Uh okay, let's say Foxy Brown, am I assument I shot you? Was her first appearance? First appearance or was it ain't? Like not anything? I think I think got shot to Beyonce with you. I think her first appearance was I shot you and then it was ain't. So it would have been would have been a hard sale for you guys to push Gotta get you home or or uh, I'll be good, I'll be the right. Would have been harder for you guys to promote her had she not had the nepotism association of being on a posse cut doing first, doing a good job on a posse cut. But I don't even think doing a good job or doing a bad job even matters. But no, back then, it was like, oh, ship, she's been right and she looked good. So this is a can't lose situation, like to break out an artist of that level. Was it a hard cell? Like do you have to have uh pinpoint board and white board and do all these like mathematic theories for radio programmers to to to see your vision on a Foxy Brown or a child someone unproven, it's it's it's okay. So our secret sauce was we never worked just the record. We always believe we were working a brand. So Foxy wasn't about, um, what was the record? Uh? The big record? Uh, it wasn't just get you home. It was about as much as get your shot you. It was both. It was the same amount of effort because we were building a brand, and when building a brand, you gotta lay a solid foundation. So it's never about radio. To me, it was just not the radio became Okay, I got the street lot, I got the sheet, people respect, Okay, we put it with this person, Okay, put on this tour. Okay, now we're ready for that. But does it help to also have the deaf cham logo in other words like well not have you ever got what's what's what's what's a heartbreaking no that you got during your stretch? Okay? J hates and I think he does it just to be asshole sometimes he hates in my lifetime, like just the I think you know what, I'm like it whatever Volume one, Volume one, yeah, yeah, yeah, well no, no, no, is that the one that had touched my heart? Now doing like Sunshine? How are you guys working Sunshine? And to the point where now Dame's like, yo, we gotta make a street movie real quick and get him back to home base and established a street cred because I didn't even see it as like, oh, you're losing your street career by rhyming over with baby Face. It was um um reach but wait, it's it's almost like I'm sorry, only because the Flaming Lips uh were recently on the Tonight Show a long time ago, and I think about the whole New I think about the whole New Rock uh Flaming Lips video fiasco where it's like, yeah, where it was like that was and I'm like you shot the video with him, like how did you not know that? But for me, he recorded the record, he made the video and he was obviously reaching. Yeah. It's like it's a committee like it just like saying I accidentally posted a picture Instagram. No you didn't you know what any steps to take the post picture Instagram. I think he experiment made up made a record. Um, but why couldn't a song like Sunshine, which by the numbers should have won. But that's just wasn't a good song though like that, But what is a good song? During that period? Was effective or not? Right? That ship was ineffective. But the thing is is that, Okay, give me, okay, what's that I'm trying to give me? Give me and give me a job? Will either put it on me or I mean all of them? Job do you want to do? I do sample everybody living it up? That was the living it up. It's the formula. Okay, okay, let's take a living up. I actually would give the advantage to living it up. I kind of, But I'm trying to think of like just a hit for deaf jam that was like, yeah, it's a hit. Uh okay, let's go with Gotta Get You Home? That was that was a jam? Well it was because it was a hit. It was like you were told ill Matic was a classic? Was it a classic? Instantly? You were told? Instantly? I read it like it's almost like like like your hand was forced on it, Like why why wasn't why wasn't the machine that built by you guys had a formula so amazingly like bulletproof. Why couldn't that work for Sunshine? Because I believe um good records work and bad ones don't. Wow, that ship won't jamine by the way the record and I worked the wreck, I was mad at people, You're not gonna play baby Face Foxy and you're not gonna play that, and I took offense to it. But the art of being a promo guy, there will be another record. I'm never worried about whether people would uh played the record or not, because I'm gonna come back with him again. And guess what Jay's next album. I reminded them, Okay, wait, wait, wait, time out time, because I really want to talk to you about your Rockefeller relationship with Damon Desh And I know you're so tired of talking about the Jackets, and I was anover tired of talk about the jackets he was. So he comes at you guys with the song that's like seventies seven beach per minute. It wasn't even it wasn't even a jam. So to one in My Life is a hard song to to blend in mixing it's very slow. In today's environment where the average song is yeah like SI could work in two thousand and sixteen, but back in there was no the average meter was was was He's coming at you with a record that's eight two b p m s. There's a bunch of kids singing. You know. It was a risk, like a Broadway song. Delivery is weird? Yeah, how did you guys? Now? That? To me was the hell Mary throw of all hell marries. I think the novelty was part of it, just because of the fact that it was a very slow song with the whole the ironic song, because he tried it again with anything that didn't work. I think it was a moment in time. I don't think that could ever be repeated. And it was a jay Z moment. But was there uh what do you call it? When you're when you're was there a sort of a gun side thing, like we can't fumble this one because let's not even looking at as a fumble because the out went platinum. Yeah, I don't. I don't think it would be honest with you again, I never looked at it. Jay Z's brand to us, Rockefellow brand to us because we had things that was very successful, and we had things that didn't work, you know, but his brand was so important to us, his friendship was so important to us that it just wasn't about one particular record. I know with with Hope, He's gonna always make that record because I believe he's that guy. That's another one of those you know what I mean, that that that I would do anything for because I know his Um, he's he's it's just as an m C. Yeah, he wanted those man and hard knocked like you got that couldn't work for everybody. Everybody couldn't do They couldn't do that that they couldn't do, and so he was just it was the one on one for him if you're just suiting them. We're heading to our final hour with Kevin Lyng was talking about his time as president of def JAM at the turn of the century. Um, what was it like daily just dealing with Dame dash and on on one line? By this point, I know, IRV it was IRV got a hard Uh. I know you're gonna say that nobody was hard to do, and I know I'm gonna tell you, but intensely Dame was challenging. Okay, Um, IRV and if you talk to him to this day, IRV to me when I left, Um, if IRV didn't implode the way he did around his whole thing, and Dame didn't implode the way he did, they were being primed to take over. And I'm just today were they were real record guys. I mean, I'm being honest. Do you still feel that they have the business acumen too, at least advanced the wisdom that they've gained, because I just refused to believe that they're that damn disposable, like it was like a moment of time. I don't. I don't think they don't think the moment in times. I think they made choices and decisions that they have to live by. And I think if Erv wanted to be in the business, um he could be in the business. I think that Dame has chosen a different You gotta understand something Dan came. It was it was a traffected with them, you know what I mean. So I'm sure that goes through you know some people. It's like I said, I know I can do it by myself, but I don't want to do it by myself. That's why I mean, literally have been together you know my my whole career per se. So um, some people don't want to do it byself. I really don't think Dame wants to do it by myself. And that's that's to be quite honestly. You know, I'm not sure why, but and and Erv I talked to every day. We we we we we we were friends. Or not to put you on the spot, but if he I'm saying there's a male room position that three hundred, I don't mean that. But are there people in this industry that you would rather not choose to work with again? Or is it just like you'll find where your system is right now? And UM let me, I'm gonna try to put this in there right because I want to know, like the genius and the stronghold of Rockefeller, I'm trying to figure out if that was Dame's constant uh intensity or was that jay Z's lucky streak like who had the forty nine advantage? I think it was. It's always gonna be a whole because he was the one that kept the lights on in building. But every team, um needs a Dennis robin Um and I think Jay wasn't a big talker. Dame did the talking Bigs wasn't a big talk at all. He didn't really talk, you know what I mean, He just you know, did do not and say yo. So that's a well that said. If okay, let's let's trade off. Let's take let's take Dash out of this situation. Let's put Chris Litte in that situation. Now, Chris Litty is the right hand to Hove, will we have the same results or do you need someone that is just the flavor to a chuck d like Let let me let me say this to you. I think there's a lot of things that um put that whole situation into the stratosphere where it was at that particular time. I'll be be a sucker and a bit if I didn't sit and say that Dame's contribution to Rockefeller was not a lot. I'll be be corny and whack to say that Bigs didn't. And I also be disrespectful to say Hove was not the reason. You understand, So you can't you can't. You can't put um you don't do because I wouldn't know that because I've never seen I know Jay is very ambitious, and I know that he it's kind of a chess player and thinks in terms of moves. But I always thought like you need you needed a trojan horse or a battering ram two at least, how be it revisionist history or not. I mean you you'll hear everyone's tale of well I made it happen. Well I made it happen. Well I made it happen. You know you hear like all these versions of it. So it's just like we never looked at it like that. I think them being with us helped a lot. Um. I think we provided a platform to them to be great entrepreneurs. We gave them a lot of opportunity, taught them a lot of things, and to be quite honest, they told us some things. Um told us about taking risks toward us, about just believe it again. If might sound funny, but Um, from all the guys, I really feel like we were just meant to be the reason we ran the boards, because we were meant to be together, meant to be together. I'm told you talking about wars, we'd have been to some things. Yeah, I was gonna say, knowing that your history, were you meditating at this point at least? Like how are you surviving? Because I mean I'm I'm probably a passive aggressive boss in at least twelve of my ventures. I just you know, what are you pointing me for? No? This this is the Have I been aggressive to you? Have I been aggressive to you? It's you're having at Yes, I have been very aggressive. I said, you are a passive aggressive boss. Yes, that is the truth. You already said it's school. Oh well, you don't have to intensify that, witness. I just want you to know there was You didn't have to quick anyway. But my point is that, how how does this not land you in the hospital? How is this not? Actually? Did um said? I did not know that? But not not not not. I didn't realize that at the time. Um, But when you work with my life, you know. And and I had gotten so big. I was three and twenty pounds Jesus Christ, I totally forgot that. And so the issue I realized my my addiction was food and the reason. And because I was on the road all time, I never really cared about I just eight in the eight and eight and then I started stressed, you know, And so I started to realize that ship something wrong. Blood clout here, bye bye this And I remember LEAs said this, He said, I want to think about this. I had five million dollars. Am I gonna give it to you fat fuck? Am I gonna give it to the healthy guy? Wow moment moment, And so I only say that I didn't realize that at that time. And sometimes you don't realize what you're going through. But their addiction to food stress eating is People called it almost cost me my life, diabetes the whole thing. So um wherebetes I? When I was in digestion problems? I was. I was, when I tell you, you know, a very reggie rads, very big cap. All these guys were overweight, um dibby eats and the whole nine. How old are you this time? At my biggest probably thirty two? That was a big because your initial weight loss was a lot, Like you dropped a lot of pounds. I went from three I'm now where one nine? Wow? Oh no, I'm current that a small Yeah. I had a similar scare. And I'm like in my second month of of being a vegan, which I gotta ask, is there ever time where you just stopped counting the days like a prisoner? Like I dream of pancakes every I have a diary, and I'm like, Dave, I'm serious, like blood, I changed it's lifestyle now, um, it's um. I look at food, eat food for energy. So you're not a no sugar, no dairy anymore because you were no sugar. Um still fried no fried foods um and um cheese. You know what I mean. I do. I'm I'm people know me. I eat the same thing every day, you know what I mean? So egg whites uh in the morning, mushrooms, onions, peppers, slice turkey meat inside. Um. Someone looks like Kevin Love, like, let's get lunch now. Lunches normally fish and Brussels sprouts or broccoli rob and then then I'll eat some seafood, webber, shrimp, Alaska king crablegs, but always protein and vegetables the same. And now I made a commitment forty eight by fifty. I want to be in the best shape in my life. So I'm doing CrossFit three days a week and I'm doing rowing every day. You know what I mean. I hate ruin. Do you do that machine where you have to do the two thousand? Uh? Yeah? Yeah, yeah. I love you so much that I put it in my house. I bought one from my eyes exactly. Yeah, I purposely try to break the chair on that PROCEEDEYM shout out to coach Greg. I'll beat there in my eight o'clock inspiration. Jeezus. So I got that answer you ask. But I'm gonna tell you a question that's on the wait thing. Um, so many people look at you and follow you. You know what kind of light you would shine if you did become healthy. And I'm not saying you're not healthy, but just if you did, um the light that you would bring um to pieces. Because people think that I'm now the Nazi asshole for like all the health stuff I've been putting up. You know you not the people who don't know they're looking at it, but people more people think it's great. I think I think you'd be such an inspiration to people, and you touch people's lives. I can't tell you. People who send me messages that you know forget me being who I am and the things that I've done, just the commitment because I've been I've lost weight and it's now going to ten years. Um, I don't count count days or anything. I really truly eat for energy. You may only eat enough stuff. I don't wonderful. Full fullest is nasty to me. Full makes me feel sluggish in a certain way. Um, so I pray for you and I hope that you find you know the light enough to follow the light and shine light on other people. Wow. Thanks, I feel like I just got blessed by I would eat is Rick Ross and it's like a pure blessing. And who got me the sugar? Stevens our resident diabetes That yeah, he's out probably smoking a cigarette, like eating the cake coming Like what did that mean? So? Uh, what your your exit? Actually the three of you left def JAM at the same time corrected two thousand and six. Uh, they were there when we signed to Atlantic. So Leo left first. Um, I was there at president CEO deaf Jam. Uh. Julie was there as the execut Press President Island President. She left and then um, and I always tell a story, So it's me and l A and I felt like what was was the synergies the same? I mean it was it was my company, you know what I mean, we ran it. I just so I had the keys, but I didn't have the house, so so and Doug and then they just didn't know. They didn't trust me enough. Because I was leader's guy, you know what I mean. And so they told me you should come and you know, stay and understand. I said, listen, I love l A, my my friend, and it's like somebody as another guy that I think the world of, and we can do great We don't do the same thing, you know what I mean. We can do great things together. Were disappointed that they didn't offer you that I wasn't. I wasn't saying again, I wasn't that it was meant to be, So I don't. I don't live in only time we at this point where they said you got you'ren't gonna give me the job. That was the only time I was this point. Other than that, I take life for what it has to give me. But that's why I'm so critical on my choices and the things that I I do and how I treat people. So with l A, I looked at it. I said, Yo, so I don't want people doing the l As people and Camins people. Then I'm not gonna let them do that to to African Americans at an institution like DEFTN. I can't do that, Yea. So I'm out, my man, but I gotta go. He said yo. No, he said no, I said no, But I'm doing this for us. I'm doing this for us because you deserve and respectful what you have and respect of what you've done is executive. You don't need a hindrance to you doing what you need to do. This is deaf Jam, you know what I mean, This is island deaf Jam. You. I need you to have full control and anything. So I'm gonna help as much as I can. But I think it's best that, Um, I give you. You have the house, I give you the keys also, So that's what it was. So in your success, it was Jay right or Jay? Was that? What do you think of that period? Like were you shocked or did you feel that that was not natural? But like was it was it something that you believed in or not? I think it was it was you gotta it was necessary two um, because you gotta understand that I'm ten years now, I'm fifteen years there and so people that some kids who don't know Russell was president of the death jail, you know. I mean there's some millennials that don't know that. They think it was me. You know, I found it and think so you know the issue I think that they had with Leo not me not being there, they had to have someone there with enough um gravitas, enough like the attraction and success that would stop the bleeding, you know what I mean? But why do you think that art it didn't during that time. It seemed like the artists on roster weren't as happy as they were before, some of the people who have been there for a while. I think it's it's management styles, I think, um, and how do you how do you deal with the fading like like E P M d s situation for instance, Like you know, how do you take a legacy act that might not necessarily be as open? I mean, am I to assume? I don't? I don't, like I never know what ll L's processes. He just seems to me that he's just open two ideas and if it's and if it's a good idea, I'll go with it. I know plenty of artists that would, you know, turn their back on a hit for fear of like I don't want to look bad for my boys, thinging da dada. But how do you take a legacy act that was good for the label like E P M D Or Eric Sermon and that sort of thing like if the expiration is up and they're like, okay, well we're back in business or that thing like what was back of business? Out of business? So, I mean, that's why we're going to it's a question. So for that for those comeback records, like are they having these like uh, these frothy goals of like oh man, we're back to our you know, our our regular platinum status and you know, the world's gonna know who we are because they were never platinum, well they were gold. Go What I'm trying to say is their expectation was to be able to go out on the road and perform for their fans. Uh ser Eric sermon. Um. His expectations was to be able to produce. You gotta you gotta remember when we did back in business and then it was another one out of business. You know. Um Um. These were albums done out of love. It wasn't like that it was an exportation. Oh we're gonna go and get jet. It was not that. It was that, Yo, we still want to do it, so help us do it. And that's what I That's what I did, and I think we did Eric did some great Eric did the four three two one remix for me and and I always say, so if he can bless me there, I have to be able to work with them. And the joke was the group was called K E. P M D. Because I was I was always stayed right with them too, you know what I mean. So that was I mean through all that, I went through all the thinking, so that that must have been a part of the culture show because I remember when you left l L. It seemed like it was definitely a difference in him, like a mirror. I'm not just not got your moment. However, he definitely made it know now he felt about the new administration and how did how did that affect you? Because it just seemed like the whole camaraderie that whatever you brought, that joy that you brought to that building, it got him down. I think it's a different I mean, you gotta look at different administrations coming every four years, and I think that but you learned how to deal with them. Um, I think, Okay, maybe that feeling wasn't there, but rih honest, there right, But did he but did? I mean, y'all are friends, so I'm sure he's like called you like I can't deal did did you have to? UM? I think people knew, people know me and hope you know what I mean. People know that. UM. If he called me today and said, Yo, I need you to to run this or do this, that's my guy. I'm gonna do whatever I can for him. But vice versa. Like people can't call him, I can call him and say, yo, I need It's not money thing, you know, and he'll He'll be there. And the rest of these kids always told HI, when I left, it was emotional for me. You know, you gotta understand something. I took that badge and the only thing I don't have as a tattoo with with deaf to him. UM. And these were brothers and sons and daughters that UM, and aunts and people who I came up with in the business. UM. But at the end of the day, UM, they have to do what's best for their families like I had to do what's best for my families. And I got I got some of the calls. But I will always say, remember when Rick and when Rick left, there was Lear change the administration. When Lea we grew so big, Lear had to have Kevin Loos change administration. In the same way some artists people. It's people who felt a deft And when I came in, when they named me president, some people left. Some people through ship all they couldn't believe how left they couldn't they couldn't believe how they named me. People cried that. So so even despite you coming in first and leaving less, what about that? Because the culture wasn't about um, how can I say? Uh? The team it was more so about we def jam and and it wasn't. And to me, I'm okay with being in the backseat driving and being and I'm clearly being on the roof. Put me in the trunk. I'm okay with weeb as long as we accomplished the goal and what's the greater good? And so I just think it's a different when new administrations come in, they have to cater to the artists. And when you don't cater to art um, the paint starts to peel. And so that's what I think. You know, I wanna I wanna ask um if you can't name me three three artists or three acts, don't get me a trouble question, Kevin low, I love you, man, I'm not got you name me three X that got away. I could have had blah blah blah, like damn if we just they went somewhere else, Like what three acts could you? Could you have signed? Or had that got away Nelly? WHOA? How close was Nelly negotiations with the ChIL Um and what caused it to not happen? I know someone had to say, oh, this guy will never sell this. Um. I just think it was a timing issue and we were we were a really like coast based label, East Coast and West Coast, and I didn't understand it. Um. I think um Leo didn't like it. UM. I think, uh, fifty cent Wait a minute, you're trying to tell me Christy managed him. Yeah, what happened? I never thought of that. So if Lody would have signed fifty cent and Row was on the label at the same time, yeah, that would have been crazy. We listen or was that an issue? No? The best thing for everybody, And again I deal with a greater good. UM fifty had an opportunity to be with Dre. I believe A fifty would have been with us. You mean you had a when he signed the Columbia the first time or like after period after Columbia, after clumb. Oh. Yeah, could have took him like mixtape. I mean mixtape. I mean, we could have signed fifty. But the greater good called and the greater good was um Yo. I think that's the better situation. And I think that um because of Dr Dreke, because of the whole thing that came along with And I think that because of the choice that he made. I think uh, he became um the artist that he is. I don't think we could have did as great of a job with uh with him as they did. So I think that was one. And then who else said you got me three? Man? I mean, it doesn't have to be hip hop. I'm sure there's some singer let me see, Uh. I mean, ain't that many that if we wanted him, we didn't get to brag? Um No, I really like, I'm I can't endore my era. I can't think I'm another never never act that if we really wanted them, that we didn't get him. Yeah, I would say. And and by the way, they're both very good friends. Um. I went on to manage Nellie, you know, fo a period of time, so he's um, shoutout to Nellie, shout out the fifty. Do you have a favorite era of Deaf Jam because we didn't even talk about Death SHOWLD or anything else. But I'm just curious because I remember that was like a big deal. So so I'm just curious that you have a I don't mean this is I don't have a favorite era era that meant the mostly I guess the favorite word is it? Are you one of those like I never looked back once, I'm looking towards the touchdown goal. Yeah, I said. I'm just I'm not doing this, no, none of that, because I really believe if you stay in the state of evolution, you make change. I don't. I don't feel like, um, I don't want to be stagnant. So therefore I don't spend my time just reflecting on the roses. I smell them, but I don't sit back and and look, you know at what I what I did. That's why, Like now I can sit here and say, you know when streaming started and uh we had the first artist of stream a billion streams with Fetty Way, I can see here today and say you got the number one rock record? How you says back? I say, and the day and say I got me goes. I've ever talked I can sit and say I got a guy named young Thug that's you know, putting out so many records that I can say all these things um in a sense. But now if you want me to go back and talk about that, we can talk about to day and how you managing and having labeled at the same time and doing so much all that. But you know, I was I just really looked forward um to um what God has prepared know, but I gotta work at it though. You know what I tell people, you really don't want it, if you're not willing to give up everything for it, I really don't really don't want it. And a lot of kids today they don't want it. They act like they want it, but they don't want it. They don't want to ask if they don't have the drive that you had. It's not about It's not about drive. I mean, I believe, I believe every day I'm um, I'm trying to prove to you that I'm Michael Jordan's every day still to this day, still Michael Jordan's still Michael Jordan, not not no, no, Michael Jordan's I play, I play, I play hard. So in your world, like it's not about Okay, well you know I should be in coach position or even owner position or what's funny? Is you gotta I owned a piece of death, dam mat, I don't know what. I don't know what it is not to be owner. I own one of music group um our own three D you know with I don't know our own K. I don't know what it is not the own, So I don't. I don't, but I don't know what I would do if I did. I couldn't play. Do you think your journey could exist in seventeen like the way did you started your journey? Continue your journey like that? Still at your office making sure that so now now I got I got, I got a lot of a lot of young kids who I feel like, Um, do you feel millennials even have that drive at all? I think some do? I think some? Do you think you find the right ones? I think, um, c J's one. I think I got another kid in my office who was like the third person and the Google class in interns. Um, I think uh ashes one. UM, I think I got another marketing person named Raina. Who's I mean, they're there? You know what I mean? But what what happened? Question? Um? Is that there's a period of time in our culture where mentorship UM was lost because everybody, everybody got everybody got scared for their jobs and they got selfish and so UM. And that's called the only reason I came try came back like a like A like I have UM. It's because I don't need If you look at it, all of the diversity and the music business and things like that, there's not enough of us and UM. And but I tell people you gotta be prepared for the moment. And being prepared for the moment, it's making sure you're the best you and you're having the biggest value proposition and a lot of kids that's whatn't there. And so I demand excellence. You're teaching and you just use that phrase twice and this wholes Can you say that again? The value proposiity because people say stuff they don't know what it is, and that's kind of deep. But so I believe there's a value proplished proposition on both sides. People who come to me, can you give me a job? I said no, But you can create a position with me. What's your value proposition. I'm not gonna pay you what you're going to create your position, to create your position and then we'll talk about it. So if someone with the gravity ties and nerve that Rockefeller had, when I guess they told you guys like Dame had, not Rockefeller, Okay, but no, no, no, no, no, in the way of saying everybody had that role. That was that was his role and he played well okay, well no, no, no again. A lot of this. I'm just going on folklore that you know, you always hear stories of and I just remember, or at least what I was told was that when they have the initial death chair meeting, it was like, no, we want to be our own label, not just to be an artist. Jay Damon Biggs came to my office. Irvis said, Yo, you'll want to get your records played. You gotta go see Kevin Laws. Okay, And so they came to my office with a bag of money but brown paper back and I said, Yo, let me hear the music. You know, I just want to know, I know life that heard you know in my lifetime that said, but let me in the music. So I said, YO, want you all to sign here? Jay said, we Rockefeller? Cool? Alright, cool? So um, but yeah, we should stay in touch, and I helped him get the record on the radio, and then they did the record with Foxy and we put that on the Rush Hour soundtrack, the first one in the rest is history. That's believe that though, because that's listen another time he said it when we all went to the Warter Music Group, Um, Jay said, yo, And how did y'all get him to agree to that? Uh, Kevin's all smiles. Now, No, it's it's it's when it's when you always think it a greater good. So when Jay had the opportunity to work with us again, because he got the whole lot next thing finished his commitment there, he brought his album over to us in Atlantic, which the Kingdom Come or the Part three Blueprint went three okay, And and he didn't have to do that. He could have did it anywhere in the world, but he chose could you know, he could have did anywhere in the world. And the reality of it was, Um, that's because of a greater good, you know, man. And I believe we all worked together again, and I believe I'm now with Leo at YouTube there's gonna be a lot of opportunity for more things that happen and our Caolt is gonna even continue to grow more. I just want to wrap up to where you are now, which is of course between k W L and three Entertainment. Um, why would you want to be a manager? Which means that I'm certain that your phone are ringing off? TJ is already confirming. Do you dread when the phone rings between eleven? I'm sure you have a bat phone? That bat phone, which is like, do not call this phone unless it's an emerging right, Okay, you always show me all So when phone number three rings at two in the morning, that's in the car? Are you is there? Tremors? Are are you? Like? Oh? God? So where I'm at in my life? People? Now, I have a eighteen year old, six year old, five year old two year old, have a wife. I'm not answering the phone at a certain times, um, but it's out of respect. But I make sure before I lay down that everything's done. It's not an issue. And if I do get a four o'clock in the morning call like I did last week, um, it's already handled to a point that I just gotta give the blessing, you know, because I got people, have a company. It's not just just me, I have people who are You're at the top of the very competent amount, and I have to just say I don't. I never wanted to manage. I don't even feel like I managed right now. You don't want to manage. You didn't want to be president, you didn't want want artist. What do you want to do, Kevin Um? Okay, let me tell you really want to do it. I want to change people's lives, and right now I'm doing it through music. I can't accept that it's good because the truth, that's all I want to do. And I really, honestly, I'll tell you and then we can wrap up. So when I left one of musical but I was done with the business, I said, I don't. I said, you don't want to sign Chris Brown. You're trying to tell me about you want to get rid of this sarty. I said, yeah, I can't do that. So I'm an executive vice president, so I don't have a label. I'm the whole company, you know. And I said, I think it's the business about the change. I think I should look at the new business. Mouth takes some time off, and so I worked out something with Warner and Um for you know three years and everything's great. My whole crew there and everything. And um, I met this kid trade while I was there. He said, um, yo, I got rid of my manager. I said, so, who's your manager? He said Delante? I said, Delante was my first intern ever in the music business. Said what's the problem, Well, well, I said, yo. He said, I want you to manage I say, I'm not manage you. I'm not waking up telling you I'm not doing nothing. That what are y'all talking about? Management? And I said, um, but go out and talk to everybody and then come back and talk to me, and let's make a decision. So his mom calls me and says, um I, um cad my son. I don't want to manage it. He wants you, he said. He looks at you as your father fixed that's out. No, he didn't. He didn't call me, he said. So then he called and said, yo, um, I promise you. I'm gonna do whatever I need to do to be and I'm not going to act up. You know what I mean? I said, I don't think you're gonna act up. I said, but you gotta understand it's really you have to be my partner I'm not your manager, really, I'm your partner and we're gonna have to figure it out. And so I agreed to do that, and then ten thousand other people called. But that was out of necessity. Our friend was out of necessity. It wasn't it was I didn't, I don't want to make it. It was out of necessity. I was about to say, what can we do to not make d'angelo's fourth album come out in twenty m labor love Man. I can just I can be honest with you. Um, I know it's frustrating, you know, and then you see a perform and it's like a forgiving This is I mean, he wanted to LISTENIP He's one of those I can say, listen, whether he makes ten albums, five albums, two albums, for whatever he decides to make, it will be damns on. It's only one of those. And that's why I feel about it, and I'm there. It's out of necessity. That's my my brother, you know. I mean, that's somebody who like, um, I'm gonna be there for him, you know, whether whether he's writing music, performing, whatever he's doing, I'm gonna be there for right a stage right. But but again it's out of necessity. That was out of necessity. I have some acts that I do because they want to beat but they all want to beat me for different reasons, and so it's out of necessity, you know. With that, Who are the acts that you manage? Now? Um? PNB rock Um Philly, Yeah, shout out to Philly. So out of the PNB Um do you still have l No, I don't have her, Ky Michelle. Um? Who else? I? Well West Walker from another Philly white rep. Who? Uh Charles Jenkins, big pastor out of Chicago. Um, shout out of Charles. I'm forgetting somebody. Um, I'm forgetting somebody. Really, Oh, London on the track. Um. And if I forgot you, I'm sorry, it's too late. I'm sorry. Well, I thank you very much. Give it up for our guests. Kevin Lass. I'm gonna take that, though I might that mean my I can't be the first person that ever called you a google. Um Russell called me a priest, um rare Rale calls me the governor instead of the governor. That because I cover everybody but you you the first gurgle definitely, Oh Russell call me Buddha now or years ago. Now, okay, okay, he said, he said, you don't have to I have to meditate Because I said I have to meditate. I said, you don't have to. He said, you don't have to meditate. You just nice. I said, yeah, I said, okay, cool. My success to you, man. I appreciate your energy and and and your your wisdom and your inside. Thank you very much, man, Thank you, guys, bless you off. Thank you. That was a very enlightening and positive. Do you think we will just get in person to tell us the most debauchery death jam stories of all time? He was about to Did you notice that he was? He was getting up to one and then we changed the subject. He was, yeah, I thought he was gonna there. He was. What he said was like Solomon Gore. It was like blah blah blah blah, and then someone sets up now, so it was like, now, yeah, I had fish for lunching, fish for dinner, and fishing king crab legs, my home, a book, vegetables, smells of rich mahogany vegetables. I was afraid to ask if he remembered the Little Brother period of that. That was my first time meeting him. That was my first time. But I mean, but a lot of what he was saying, you know, and even to back up what he was saying, you know, for for all instance purposes. I mean, they let us make the album we wanted to make. I mean, that album, regardless of what it did, you know financially, Uh, refer to the Mental Show. You know, that record came straight out of our hard drives to the world. And I don't know if too many artists who can really say that, you know, certainly at that time, you know what I mean. Um, you know we that album came out exactly the way we envisioned it, and so uh, you know, they were always we had to change someself with the album cover. But whatever than that, I mean, yeah, they were very They let us do us you know what I'm saying. Always be thankful to us. Kevin, Julie and Craig Juliet on the show. I think Julie would be real, right. I think Julie would be the one that would be she would she would give it up wrong. I don't know. Everybody else now is like doing yoga and ship. I think Julie. I think Julia go in, did I ask you what you learned. Uh, No, Kevin Lyles, what I learned. I learned that, Um, to me, the most the people that a lot of times that the most successful in the business. You know, when he talks about just wanting to add value to things, UM, that's something that's very amiable. Um, that's something that I've always kind of, uh, try to live my life by and that if I don't think I can make something better, it doesn't have anything to do with the money or you know whatever. It's just like, if I don't think I can make this better than your check, really don't mean nothing, you know what I'm saying, Because if I'm not adding some kind of value to it that I know only I can add, then you know, I'm doing you a disservice by taking the money, and I'm just gonna end up making us both look bad. So that was something that really rang out to me, and also to just a thing of him just kind of not really playing for the paper, but just playing for the position, agreeing to say, hey, I'll drive Houdini because of what that's gonna mean. Not necessarily there may not be a big payoff in it for me immediately, but it may pay off for me down the line and him. Even so, I'm still trying to digest that you mean what you mean in what way? I mean, I have no reason to believe that you know, he's right. Well, that's a rare character trait too. Uh, I don't know, to be so prepared and so willing to work and so on time and so resourceful and so ready without a destination or in game or even a dream. Well, I think he said one of the things he said was that he wanted to be the best at whatever he was. Whatever. It wasn't necessarily like he was looking for the touchdown. It was just like, if this is who I am, then I'm going to be the best at it. Yeah, that's the same. That does make bad because you have aspirations. No, it's just somebody else's story, just a journey. Does that make me a bad person? If I see a monetary landing at the end of this leap, it doesn't make you a bad person. But at some point it's got to be something else. And I I'm with you on that because after a while, like Kevin and helping his people and go into the more, you know, going to Morgan, being in Baltimore, being available like, what is that money? Don't feed your soul, but James Brown says Republican James Brown says in soul power gameliberated broke. You can do both though. That's what Kevin Liles is doing, That's what Richard Branson is doing. Yeah, I'm trying to change lives too, but I definitely know that it ain't nothing going on but the rent. Okay, where did you learn this episode? What I learned to U? Two things, Kevin lyles Um. Yes, So I have this theory that which goes off what you were saying. It's like, it's like you all get into the room for reason, right, you have a talent or you're in the room for reason, but you stay in the room because you're fun to hang around with. That's like, I feel like that's about everything, And that was kind of what he was getting. He's like, he's a nice guy and like he would do all the ship and do all this crazy stuff, but he succeeded at the end of the day so profoundly because he's a good dude. He's just like, he's not an asshole. And secondly, he kept on saying stuff about storytelling, which I thought was interesting. Which we were disagreeing one, which is like East coast versus West coast, Like it wasn't that one thing ended another thing began. It's just it's just that's where it was. And because I feel like I was thinking about this as he was saying, this is like our life is like that, Like you're we were into the Hamilton's thing for a minute, and now that's kind of you know, it's not it's still this thing, but it goes away and then something else kind of pops up. You just kind of follow around this thing and just hope that you can attack yourself to the pulse of it as long as you can, because that's what we're doing. That's artistry, whatever we're doing, you know, And that's I thought that was just keep working. Yeah, you just career, just have yes, but we but our career is based in the fucking weirdest thing in the world, like so large, yah, minus arts. I just learned that. I guess you really can be a good guy in this business. Although I'm still waiting for a bad story about Kevin Loos because it's so hard to believe that you can be a good cop. Like that's amazing. Yeah, yeah, right, like that's amazing and a sea of Leon and Russell Kevin. Yeah, trust me, I've heard Russell Simmons name as Hustle Simmons. I've heard Lee I've never heard I've never heard Kevin lies or Yeah, I've never heard that. I've never heard that once. Um, Bill me, Yeah, what did I learn? Boss Bill? Um? I didn't really learn anything. I just got a lot of things reinforced. Um. I really wish this was a conversation that I could have been a part of on May four, two thousand two, before I started my first job music industry. Um, Steve, you know what you didn't learn? Yeah? Do you know what you did not learn? How to get back into this room getting text messages always from Steve? Who every time right here? You left the room in such a glorious moment for you. That's what happened to you. Were you did? What did I not learn? Were you at the window like banging on the window. I wish I was that close elevator, because he would what did I not learned? Does he manage Billy Joels? That would be your sugars? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, you guys were brothers. And then he talked about his diet, and then we made fun of your diet, and then you learn here then yeah, and then he blessed the mirror. It was beautiful. It was I did learn some things? Would you learn? He wrote in UM, Well, I want to hear one of these songs with with ten turntables, right, I mean I put it together in my heads, five guys right each with two buddies. Math. That's one thing. That's the one thing that we didn't clearly spend that when he was talking about UM that he kept the base like the thing of of Baltimore house music was that they would turn any song into a four on the floor song. So it doesn't matter. It could be like Jumped by Van Helen. Somebody would spend Jump by Van that somebody scratching and somebody playing baseline right. Yeah, So he was saying that his job was just to keep the steady eight. In Chicago, they would actually have a guy played the eight o eight live in the booth. So I don't know if he had the eight o eight machine or he was just spinning records that had a consistent Yeah, but you turned you turn every song into a four on the floor song. So are there albums that the listeners can can reference to hear ten turntables playing. Well, I mean that's a live experience. It's more of a live about to say that, like a how they did it now? Right? Like no, I mean not now. The only person I've seen that that actually played more than four at once. Uh well, yeah, the scratch pistle or or the executioners at one point we're doing that. Um. The other stuff I learned was, I think this must be the only person in the world who took an internship when he had all that money, right, I mean, that's that's something special, you know. I mean, obviously you take internships to get your fright internship without a goal at the end. I don't believe that part. But then didn't take the boss job for two years, like in right, he's like, I don't know it yet. Actually I would do that. I would do that. I would actually you say that, but like, no, I would take that. But that's not if you know you're not ready. It's like you know you're not gonna put me in the position. But I come from a different places, which is like to learn on the job, Like you know, you know you're my brother, but I'm just saying, like, because the thing is if I learned on the job and sunk up, had another nigga for twenty years, like I'm up everybody, but also running a label and crashing and burning, it's a big, high profile thing you wouldn't want to do. So telecommunications act, got it. We all remember Andre Herow and then the whole Motown tobacco man. Yeah he never lived that. I mean, how many streets snipes did we see of Yah? I remember that. I just have one in my head. It's one of It's a shop from behind. He's sitting with a cigar, with the cigar and the sweater draped on the back of the chair. I think his name on it. That's all I remember of his tenure mood Town. That's all I remember to no music. I don'tber no James coming Um, I learned more shit, alright, one yourself out? What else did you learn, Steve Um? Well, you know that nice guys don't always finish last. This guy seems to be the exception to the rule, you know, And that's nice to see if I mean, unless he's playing us and I had I did. No, No, I don't, I don't, I don't I think I think he made it on humility and and and probably honesty and hard work and all these really these nice things that we should all people remember you when you yes, yes, people remember that ship. Well, oh what else can I not learn more than two or three fucking things in three hours? I had an idea. I think, if you want to get one of these real juicy stories to come out about the deaf jam years that you're always trying to get, you gotta find some cleaning lady who used to work there instead of one of these executives and just and then you know, we interview her. Well, look, you guys definitely uh echoed the same sentiments about what I learned. I definitely know that I want to hear uh Dame Dash the side of the story. So I'm pointing this out there in the atmosphere, Dame Dash, We're gunning for you and a cleaning lady and the death we might be here, so don't be afraid. Shots damn okay, alright, Fontigolo, Sugar Steve, Boss Bill like yeah, aka Angry Margarete, Yeah, Unvey Bill and even Scotty Yo and nice staff here this course love supreme Vandura. We will see you on the flip side. Thank you of course. Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Questlove Supreme

Questlove Supreme is a fun, irreverent and educational weekly podcast that digs deep into the storie 
Social links
Follow podcast
Recent clips
Browse 404 clip(s)