QLS Classic: Jermaine Dupri

Published Oct 7, 2024, 4:01 AM

Hip hop icon and R&B hitmaker, Jermaine Dupri, tells 30 years of industry tales from Fresh Fest days to career-reviving remixes.

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Of Course Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. This is Sugar, Stephen on this week's Quest s Love Supreme. Classic hip hop icon and R and B hit maker Jermaine Dupree tell us thirty years of industry tales from freshfest days to career reviving remixes. Originally released August twenty two, two thousand and eighteen, except Subrema role called Subma subprema role called suprema sum roll call subrema su role. My name is quest Love, spitting hot tracks, inter viewing the man the world's loudest high hat so Prema sub primo road called Subprema subprema role call. My name is Sugar. Yeah, money ain't a thing. Yeah, because I don't have much YEA sucks for me. Cam subremo. You're gonna get some sma road. This shows off the hook. Yeah, like escape second LP. Yeah, Boss Bill is my name? Yeah, q L s with j D roll call Subprema son Suprema role call sub Prema subpremo role calls Yeah what the legend day d Yeah, I've been down with him because I was at the ay you see call sub frema road call someb prema subprema role call. My name is j D. It's all about me celebrating years in this crazy as Ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to another episode of Question of the Supreme. All right, I gotta get this out once. In the opening, why do you why your high hat so loud when your record? That is? Do you the only person that mentions the only person ever asked why? Right? And I'm glad that you asked why because I feel like I don't get the credit for how I had being that loud on records. Now, and I'm glad that you're saying that because I I did that deliberately. That's my thing to make you know, like when I first I'm gonna tell you where I got it from? Right, I got it from um seven seven seven three levels have to ask seven seven seven all right? Seven okay, right we are you are we about to break you start right now? Prints think the credit. I mean the way the high hats sound on that record. They that's the focus. When I was younger and I wanted I was playing drums, That's all I used to try to play that beat, and my focus was that high hat. So then you know, for some reason, when I started making beats on the drum machine, I just wanted my beats to sound like that. So once I started making one and people said something about the head, I was like, oh, okay, this is my thing. So then I did it on you make me one of with usher record and it was like, that's the first time you've heard that loud as his voice very loud, And that's how I wanted. I wanted you to be able to turn the record down as low as you could possibly turn it down and hear the vocals and the high head. See. The thing is, though, um as well, now we have like you know, technology that doesn't we don't have to spin on records anymore because we survived on whatnot. But the thing is is that, uh usually shuffles and high hats leave an imprint on the wax. Like if you look at Thriller, the shuffle of Billy Jean leaves a sort of spiral design inside the actual groove of the wax. So you're very technical, I'm never all of your Wait a second, you're staring at at the final of its Actually, come on, let me tell you something. This is something I noticed when I was like three years old. It looks like, yeah, the grooves of all the other songs I'm thriller or look normal but Billy Jean Like, that's when I noticed, like, oh, high end, high end Fidelogy stuff. They leave an imprint on the wax, which leads to any time I've spun anything produced by you, especially money and the thing, there's this whole what's what's the game we used to get as kids where you do like SPI what was the spiral graph? It's not a game? But yeah, is that still a thing today? Or is that like did I just date myself? Spograph? Were you don't know what that is? Spiral graph? When you take us, they're like, okay, well this is classic quest of Supreme ware. I didn't even officially introduced our guests, Ladies and gentlemen, welcome. To end the episode, I had to get the high I'm a druma. I had to get the high question out the way. All right, So another episode of of Supreme. Hello, Team Supreme. I assume that Fante is fixing his countertop or his pool or whatever. Yeah, exactly. I will say that enough has not been said about our next guest, and I believe that he also agrees with me that enough has not been said about him. UM. That's sort of like one of the dangerous things about hip hop culture UM, or this disposable hip hop culture that we have UM, where you know, we discover great resources and we use them to the hilt and then we kind of are onto the next thing, and revisionism sets in and usually the person with the biggest check gets to rewrite history and suddenly everyone has a floggy memory on who pioneered what and and whatnot. Uh. But I will say that numbers don't lie. And for thirty five plus years, uh, our guest today has been a figurehead in hip hop and all the areas, being as a producer, as a songwriter, uh for some of the defining moments in hip hop and R and B culture, or as a label head, a manager, um, and as an artist in his own right. I can even say a dancer. This man is connected to more people than I care to announced. If I announced them, all, the show will be over. Uh. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to Quest Left Supreme. The one and only. I didn't use that intro on my DJ say I'm gonna I'm gonna use that ladies and gentlemen. So how's it going? Man? Alright? So for our listeners, and I'm trying to pack every question I can. Uh. First of all, I was shocked you were born in Asherville, North Carolina. Isn't that the hippie community? I'm not sure I was. I left there when I was two, okay, because usually for the roots, usually Asheville, North Carolina is like it's it's such a hippie territory. It's a mountain town. So yes, like some of the things of like the Bonaryos, but times a billion, Like there's always jam bands performing there and you know we've done many a show there because it sounds like JAD ain't been back, you know I was. I was put in Atlanta when I was two, Okay, so what what major family? Uh moved to Atlanta because Atlanta is the big city to Asheville, and you know North Carolina is like that's what they looked to I guess back then it's the place to go to have like fun, Like it's almost like how people go from l A to Vegas. And you know I meant that type of situation. I think I think so, uh, it's far you got you the business early. But what described with life was like in Atlanta? Because usually I'll say that for me, my first my first education on Atlanta, especially being how old I was, or the the the Unfortunate, h the Atlanta child murder situation with Wayne Williams who looks Boss Bill looking at me like, don't say nothing out the line, but didn't. He kind of looked like Walter Clyde and McCammon doors Oh my god, wow, oh my god. Now that you said he looked like Walter, everyone's saying, Walter, I love you. Mind your German anyway, that was my my introduction to Atlanta. But what was your childhood like in Atlanta? Like did they always have culture? And um, yeah, I think you know, um, you know, skating for kids was the culture of Atlanta. Like so when you see like a t L that movie was basically what child on my childhood was. That was it for me to go to skating rink. Um, you get away from your parents, you get to listen to music, you get to dance, you could skate, you could talk to girls. Everything happened at the skating rink. That was for young kids. Anyway, um coming up. Basically that was it for me. And then talent shows. Atlanta was full of talent shows that all the schools had talent shows and you know, um, I was just doing that hitting schools and doing talent shows and going to skating rink. It was not really much. It wasn't really much of a music scene in Atlanta, but it was. It was a scene for like dancers and the culture like I'm saying, like skating and stuff like that. Musically it wasn't really We had s OS band and we had Brick and that was you know, and people Bryson and those were people was like, you know, he was like Rick Ross in Atlanta back then, Like that was his that's people's town people he had. He had the penthouse downtown. You know, you just to drive by my days like that's that's a Brizon's house and I should be like, man, I'm gonna get me one of those ships one day. He's just you know like that. So, so was your father always in the music industry or Yeah? From from what I can remember, my dad was basically like a roadie that turned into like a road manager that turned into like you know, um, a production manager more than anything because my dad played drums, so he was like more like a production guy for the dramas of Brick and you know s OS band, And then he got into you know, morphed into more doing more production for you know, doing more production for all of these artists. And I used to just be there rehearsal, watching and looking than cameo and you know, um it started growing, but it was just those those were the main artists in Atlanta. How old were you at that point when you were watching these bands like nine That sounds about right? Yeah, Like nah, that sounds about right. Yeah. Now, uh, we've discovered here on premat all the name brand super producers have some sort of DJ history before they went into production. So did you have any DJ history prior to your I mean, um, when I went on the Fresh Fest at twelve, um, grand Master D basically was showing me how to DJ. Like I didn't know what to scratch, like scratch, He showed me how to scratch. I just want to always scratch. I used to go by on the turntables what he was doing sound check and try to scratch and he's like you no, don't, don't touch my set, I'm gonna show you how to do it. So um, I kind of you know, I can said I got personal lessons from grand Master D and jam Master J of how to actually dj um and you know, actually scratching, you know, go back and forth on the record, Like that's what my introduction to DJ. So then I left the tour and went home and I told my parents that, you know, I want turntables for Christmas. That's so weird because like coming up because run DMC, well, because Jay actually scratched or run DMC records. I always wonder why Larry Smith never let Grandmaster D physically scratched, not until like the third record, when the open Sesame record. Then I finally heard scratch and I was like, oh, he can't cut. But everybody the mother swore the guy that, like Grandmaster D was like stealing the show at the fresh Fest, doing like all these tricks on his head and so he was a legit bona fide dj ok. Yeah, I mean he was, you know, all the tricks and they picked him up and he scratched, you know, he with his mouth on the cross fade and yeah, he was doing it. He's going so being as though The fresh Fest was the first major stadium tour for hip hop one. How did you get on the fresh Fest to what was that ship? Like? Um, well, I got on the fresh Frest because the fresh Fest was created in Atlanta by a guy by the name of Ricky Walker. Um. Ricky Walker now create has created um Universe Soul Circus, the same guys I created that and then he went and did the circus thing now, but he created the fresh Fest. And my father was the production manager on the fresh Fest. UM. And they just need to open act. At that time, it used to be like they need an opening act to kill time or buy time or whatever it was. And they just put anybody on music playing, no iPods, nothing. It wasn't nothing like that. They needed somebody to you know, you know, I don't even understand what that was. But they was buying time basically, and you know, there was like, well, do y'all have anybody to put on? And they suggested that I could come out and dance, and they let me come out of dance and the show in Atlanta was the first show of the fresh Fest and it worked well with the time. So then it was like, well, can Jermaine do this for the rest of the tour, and I didn't know what that was. My mother didn't know what it was. Nobody knew what it was. When no money involved, it was just like, what was your routine? Um? I had a dance routine where I came out to its time and a couple of other records where I just was just on stage, freestyle and just dancing. And I was little, so you know, when you're a little kid dancing, the crowd goes crazy. So it was like it was kind of like the circus kind of like you know what I mean, you just you don't know what you're looking at. You was watching and it looks like I'm doing more than what I probably was doing. So how many acts work? Well, I know it was Fat Boys and Run DMC, who like, I'm sure that had to have been TF was on the tour, Um, Grandmaster Flash was on the tour. Um everybody was hot at that Arrow was on the tour. How long would you get Probably like fifteen minutes. I mean they never had that many records. And and and Run Run was really like, you know, this is my ship, so you gotta you know, so hurry up, you know, run Reverend Runn had a real you know, he had that real thing about him. And Curtis Blow was on the tour, so it was Curtis Blow run DMC, the Fat Boys who deny Grandmaster Flash, the Dynamic Breakers Um, and I think Old Zone in Turbo whoa. Yeah. See, this is what I appreciate because I know as a youngster, as as a person that was young than you, were definitely in a fly on the wall situation that anyone else couldn't. Like if I were whatever thirty plus years old at the ft, they'd be like, hey, get the funk out of here. But with you, as a kid, I'm certain that you allowed in spaces that I wasn't supposed to be in. But at the same time they was trying to tell me to get the funk out of there. But it was like I was just like, no, I'm you know here, I'm not paying no attention to y'all doing this, and I'm not you know, I've seen everything. Anyone from that era never has a recollection like DMC, like you know, I ask him a few things in you man, my memory is fine. You I don't remember, man, like you know, remember everything. And I've been trying to do this movie about basically about my life kind of like that. And I've been having people tell me that it's hard to do a movie for a kid showing what I want you all to see that I saw umix. It's R rated and it's not and it sound like a series too, because that's a long life. That's that's I mean, I don't know how far to get back, but I'm really more concerned about that because what he's saying is that people, this is I know the stuff. It's not even like history. It's like a kid seeing what you don't understand. The kids saw like I saw artists come to life. I saw artists doing drugs. I saw I just saw everything that at twelve, you don't really understand what you're seeing at the time since you're going, you're touring and whatnot. Is your dad your only chaperone because he's workings, not really shopping on I'm out there basically by myself. He's working, I'm I'm running around all of these other guys on my chaperon's That's why That's why Who DINNI like for real, That's that's why Who Dinny actually became Like my brothers and you know, they became like the guys that was with me all the time. Not then my father wasn't paying attention. Was just that I saw that as a move for me to start getting away from him and just like hanging out more. And I wasn't like out late at night and nothing like that. None of the none of the guys won't ever let me do anything like that. It was just all about the tour and like when the show was going on, I was everywhere at the show, all over the place. This is this is how nerdy I am because it didn't even occurred to me to ask about like, oh the relationship you saw my nerd ask is trying to figure out, Wait a minute, what was the back line situation? So like what was sound check? Like I know, monitors are ringing, like I'm trying to figure out, like, how does from a reductive standpoint, how's the show run concurrently and smoothly without this DJ being like who broke my mixer? And now they all had different sets. It was like it was like, um, probably like five tables sitting in the back right, so every time somebody come off, they moved that table and put that guy set up there nobody was nobody was using the same turn tables. That definitely wasn't happening on that tour. That error was scaring me because I know that with dancers, there's always skipping records. And that's what made jam Master J to me, one of the best live d days ever because he knew, he knew how to you know, move in a land of where that would never happen. He was like a druma on He was like you on stage, like he could really just like do whatever he wanted with those turntables and make them, you know, play the way he wanted them to play. So when they asked you, I'm sorry, I just when they asked you to do the record? Years later, what was it down with the King John? Because that was the that was the only time y'all worked together again the next Yeah, that must have been like a whole full circle moments. And you know, going from a kid and what you were saying, how you know run, what's that your boss? On tour? I mean it was all of us a full circle. I signed who didn't need to associate? Like it was a complete full circle. Like I was a kid looking up to these guys and they was teaching me and telling me things, and then I felt so you know, um connected to them that I wanted to sign them and give them what I felt like I was given to the rest of the world. So when it when it was over, like the last day of the fresh Fest, I don't even remember that. Well, well, okay, were they all? I know they're like two or three fresh Fests? Did you do it every year? Just six? Okay? So when the fresh Fest is officially over, Like, how do you return to normalcy? How do you go back to Atlanta or whatever wherever your home base was, assuming that you lived in Atlanta, Like, how do you explain this to your friends? How do you explain what you saw? Like, well, that's that's what actually really happened. Is like when I was on I went on tour at twelve, right, and in Atlanta, Atlanta wasn't a city that was used to performing artists. We didn't we don't have a performing art school or nothing like that. When when I was twelve, so I was in a regular school and I had a tutor. But when I came back from tour and I took my grades back to the school, the school system told my tutor that they couldn't accept it, like they just like, we don't that's not we're not used to this. We're not going to accept all of this work. So I'm like, wait a minute, I did this work, You're not gonna make it same. I'm not going to rea be left back. I was on the bus doing like I had a tutor. So right then and there, I was like, manun this, I'm not I'm not I'm not doing this. So it was like my life changed right there at like fourteen fifteen years old. My life just changed. Was like I became doing home study and I didn't go to school anymore. And then it was just like the drive to make sure that this didn't turn into something completely bad. But was it weird for you? Because you know, on tour, I don't know if you had anyone to relate to that was your age and then you're not an environment, in a school environment where you have sop hops or a prom or you know, just like regular you know, sock cops. That's what's that. That's the sophomore problem. What's the stop pop pop where you're gonna leave me out here? A stop sop hops are That's why John that went to school in the eighties like that. It is a good reference. Lease explain it to me. I thought you said, all right, where I get it, Jake? You I mean I was one in two thousand, I was twelve and eighties you're still twelve. Now you're young. Rights are like the senior dance things. You're going to your junior prom. Then you're going your senior problem. But it happened in the fifties. No, that suck you thinking of grief s. O P. I have a cold, so I know someone all right, Okay, I'm the oldest person in the room. Thank you, Steve. I don't know if your first be in your hula hoop. Al right, here's here's my point. My point is that you know not I mean, I don't know like what your relationships like with your cousins or your like your your family, but just to not to be isolated it from people your age, like how was it? Was it a lonely isolated experience where it's just like I'm hanging with these adults all the time and not not because I looked at it like this was the only way I was gonna get close to what I was in love with at the time, and these guys were dancing all day. Turn you said, you want to know what the sound check was like? Sound check was like because we had two stages. We had a middle stage. We had a big stage, right, the rappers was on the main stage, and then the stage in the middle was all the dances. So in sound check, all the dances would be out there dancing together at all at one time, like everybody dancing. So it's like I'm getting the opportunity to see moves and all of this stuff and I'm not watching videos. I'm actually watching this and I'm learning. So it was to me it was like being at school, but the school that I wanted to be at. I first heard about you. Um, like I before the internet. Right on magazine was like every every black team is like religion. You know what that is? J Yeah, you better know. I think that was his first article. I was in the shout to Cynthia and she put me in there. Do you remember being right? So I think at the time was Sometimes Leather your first project? Or how did you get into production? Um, well, let me sell you sometimes Leather. We're girl friends of Houdini, right, So they was out on the tour doing with the girlfriends out on the tour dude, basically, and I was on the side of the stage when these girls came up, and I was like, you know, checking them out. I'm young, so I'm checking the girls out and there was you know, there was this was a guy's performing. So then we just got to know each other because they was out there like I was out there and it was like, you know, I'm running around, they running around. So then they picked me up, take me where we go to catering whatever it is, something that had something to do with touring. So, um, long story short, I learned that these girls were from Atlanta. So then it was like, oh ship, yeah from Atlanta. It was like, yeah, so we're going back home. When you get back home, call us and we'll come pick you up. We got called take you get something to eat. They was really super nice in this then the third so when I got back the time because I don't even remember sometimes like they were older. That's not cool, but I don't I wasn't born. Yeah that's when he was born. When the ray came on whatever. Alright, So so yeah, so you know they lived in Atlanta and basically, um, at this particular point time, I was so deep into hip hop and I was paying attention to everybody's movement and herbieloved Buck was moving at this particular point time. He had Salt and Pepper. I think he had just dropped kids and play and Kuamba was you know, he had what I thought I was, you know what I was looking at trying to figure out, yeah movement. So um, the girls they was, you know, they was into salt and pepper and some kind of way I found out that they wanted to be rappers, that they was rapping or whatever, and out of nowhere, I just said, well, y'all should let me write your songs. I don't know what I was thinking about, because I ain't have no drum machines or nothing, but I just felt like I could do it. And they was like, Okay, well how are you gonna do it? And I'm like, we'll figure it out right. So, and I'm guessing that I'm thinking that when I said this to them, I didn't. I didn't think they was gonna take me up on it. They called my phone when I got back home, or they called my house and it was like, we're gonna come over your house so they came over my house and they came they got really familiar with my mom and got you know, really friendly, and my mother trusted him and not start going out hanging out with him, and it was all about just hanging out and then we I was always talking about making music. So then I figured out how to call the drummer from Brick Eddie Irons. He was the drummer for Brick. I called him. He had a studio called in Atlanta, so I called him. I'm like, yo, I want to make some records and he was like, okay, what you want to do and I'm and I'm I'm bartering his Yeah, I'm bartering his services, like yo, um, And yeah. That's the thing that's amazing me because technically, yeah, well no, well yeah I did so so ultimately, like my first song, shot D wrote my first song and h M C. Shot he wrote the first song that I ever did, and that he taught me how to write songs basically watching him write this song for me. So when he wrote this song is called It's Me that I used to perform on the Fresh Fest. It was a song that he wrote, but he wasn't really saying everything that I wanted to say. So I was in this position where I had this song. I was saying these lyrics that he wrote, but I wanted to say something else, and I didn't. I wasn't skilled enough to change the lyrics while I was on stage, as I thought, I was just going to destroy the song. So so I did the song the way I had learned this song because I wouldn't skilled enough to change it. But I knew in my mind I wanted to change the lyrics. So, long story short, he got me into writing. So from the Fresh Fest. I came off the Fresh Fest in eighties six with us rapping and writing songs, right, so and and and I jumped the piece because I met Chad Elliott, who was who was um? He came in second place to the Fat Boys in the disco Fever Crush Groove. Yeah, so he's real. Oh my god, where he's here. He's in New York. Chad. Chad actually is gonna induct me into the songwrits Hall of Fame Thursday. Yes, so he has Oh some give me. I'm gonna give you all this history. So you know, Chad, me and Chad, because you said nobody, I hung out with. So I met Chad later on in the Fresh Fest, and like eighty five, eight three, eight four, eight eight and eighty six was the fresh Fest. So in eighty five I met Chad. We started. They put Charlie Stetler, you know Charles Stetler, you know Charles Steps. Yeah, Charle Stetler was the fat his manager, He managed Chad. He started managing Chad after the Disco Fever contest. He came to the tour and said, if the fat boys stay on this tool, y'all gotta put Chad Elliott on this tool because Jermaine's opening. So he made Chad the second opener after me. So it was like I go and Chad go, and then people can't start trying to pit us together. And then never worked. We weren't, you know, we didn't really care about well that didn't happen. She was just like kicking it. And then it was like we should be a group. So this is like the first version of criss Cross. Actually, if you think about it, one dark skinned light skintting kicked so um um. Fast forward to that, Me and Chad really start hanging out. So at the end of the tour, you want to know what happened at at the end of the tour, I moved to Brooklyn with Chad Elliott so he lives he lives in Brooklyn. I came here to Brooklyn and I lived almost a year with him um in Brooklyn, basically soaking up every bit of hip hop in New York culture that I could actually right, rebit of everything right when every everything is good. You know, jay Z's coming to life in Fort Green and um, Big Daddy Kane's recording demos in UM Fresh Gordon's house in Fort Green projects all of this stuff. I'm right down the street from this and knowing that this is happening, right, So I'm staying in on in UM in Brooklyn on No stre New York Street, Eastern Parkway, just for anybody's listening. Yeah's staying over there, um and UM, I don't actually know that. Yeah, but yeah, that's right after I ask you about But yeah, I was about to say that up, do you have a Latin quarter story? No, thank you Lord, I couldn't get in there. So so yeah, So Chad actually introduced me to break beats and the sound of New York at that particular time, and that's when my appetite for production and making records came to life. So what happened was I would take break beats and I would play the breaks and I would start writing. And I knew that you had to, you know, catch the break and play another one. So we was we you know, we had a box and we started Paul's taping and making these beats with break beats. So that's basically how I started. So when I got back to Atlanta, that's the part of the story. That's when I made the call and I'm like, yo, I want to make some records Atlanta. Well, I don't think people heard it. That's what made me become more of a producer because I told this guy sample these beats. I told him, I want this beat to be the song. What was your weapon and choice back then? Like what machine? I mean, I think they had a what was it, a DMX That's what he had, right, So you couldn't really sample. So then I found these these white guys acrost the on the other side of town. They had an emulator. Emulator could sample, so I'm like, they could do it with this machine. They didn't want to do it either. They didn't understand what I was saying. It was like, you want us to take people's music, and I'm like, yes, take moral cars. I'm like, you'll take the beat. I want to wrap over this beat. So then they tried to recreate the breaks with drum sounds and I'm like, you know, like this is not what I'm talking about, right, So the frustration of this made me become a producer. So then I just started like, I'm gonna figure this out. See this is weird. So you're the first person of the note that I know that's not from New York. That persisted until they found a satisfactory production technique that they knew in their heart they felt with hip hop because usually anyone else that I talked to you from other territories, it's just like, okay, well I'll just do it on the drum machine and and you know, I hate it. I hate it. Like when I heard you, I was like, oh my god, is this is Is he real? Like this guy understands what I'm talking about. I used I'd be hating to hear drummers just play beats and they don't sound like like what I wanted to sound like, like tune to snare a little bit make it, make it, do something right. So this was what I was going through. So the frustration that I was going through and not hearing beats the way I wanted forced me to become a producer. Start like hitting the drum machines and whatever whatever. So long story shot, I got in there and I started getting Eddie to you know, let me touch the drum machine to give him ideas about the Silk Time's Leather record. And I wrote a song called um the Woman and Me or something like that, and I think, uh, no, work it out, work it out by Silk Times leathern we gotta deal with Warner Brothers. They got signed. Yeah, they was pretty girls, and you know, I think that's what they was going for more than the music. They didn't really care about the music. They don't really care about me, But I think they was into the girls and they thought they could sell them based on how they look. So at what point are the training wheels taken off? And then you are like, Okay, I can make these beats. Now is supposed to sample this and sample that? Well, Siltimes I think they sold fifteen thousand copies, So fifteen thousand copies to the writer of all the music is like, you know, fifteen thousand dollars maybe or something like you know. So I took that money and I went and put my drum machine on lay away, and I got a five o five drum machine. I put on lay away right because I didn't really have all my money, but I had enough to put the drum schine on away. When I got the back end of my money, I went and got the drum machine. So then I started making beats, but the beat still didn't sound like I wanted them. So I was like, okay, I'm just gonna make this beat of how I wanted to be. When I get to the studio, I'm gonna change the sounds. I'm gonna have him change the sound. So I started going to the studio and I was telling Eddie changed the sound of the kick. I wanted to sound like this, and I wanted to sound like this, and nobody was getting what I was saying. It's like, okay, all right, this is just killing me. So then I got another check from the Silktimes, another album that allowed me to get en Sonic EPs right. So when I got the Ensnic EPs, I thought I had walked into heaven. Because I could sample and I could do everything that I've been telling everybody else to do. So I just stayed up night after night at the night that I ain't read nothing. I just I don't want to. I read nothing. I just started messing with it because because I already dreamed that, they told me at the store that it would do what I wanted. So if I'm thinking, if you tell me it's gonna do what I want, that I'm gonna start trying to do what I want. I seen the sample button. I'm trying to do what I want. And I learned immediately that it didn't do what I want. But you know that's the learning thing. Yeah, I caught on. So with that, I just started making songs because the EPs was easier, and I started making songs and just doing my own little demos. And I met Left Eye and then um she started living with me and she was moved to Atlanta. Yeah, so she moved from Philly to Atlanta and she hooked up with this guy named Ian Burke who brought it to my house. Now I didn't have nothing at this and I just had equipment that I had just bought, and I was working and he was like, you should go over to j D's house and y'all work. So she came went to my house. We started working and we was writing songs basically together. And then I went to the mall with the DJ from Silktom's lat them and I saw Criss Cross and they was in the mall already just chilling. Real story, okay all this time, like that's marking the story, Like real story. I went to the mall. I'm in the mall shopping and I'm looking in the corner and it's these kids that people are actually paying attention to. And I'm like, why you're paying so much attention to these kids? And I'm thinking, like, okay, maybe it's like one of these Nickelodeon groups I don't know or something like that. So I walk over to him. I'm like, yo, what's up. They're like, what's up. I'm saying, like, what do y'all do? They're like, we don't do nothing. We just kick it, Like y'all just kick it. I'm like, why is people? Why the girls like all that y'all? And they're like, that's because that's what we do. We got girls happening eleven eleven eleven eleven, twelve years old, and I'm like, they swagged was they was the definition of swag to me at that time. I didn't even have that type of swag. I was just trying to be a producer. These guys was in the mall flex and talking to girls, spending money all kind of things and getting sneakers. So I was like, damn, what will y'all get all this from? Ll y'all a group? They're like, no, we don't wrap, we don't do none of that. We just come to them all we cool. Everybody liked us because be cool, and I'm like, okay. Immediately I just stopped and my mom was like, if I write them a song, this ship is gonna go. Did they know who Jermane Dere was? No? They thought I was like a pervert or something. They got there was like, why do you want my number? Because I asked me for their number. And then luckily one of the mothers, one of their mothers, walked up and she read Jet magazine. So in the Jet magazine that had just come out, there was like a little issue about article about female rappers and it had salt and pepper and the girls grewp girl groups that are coming behind them, and Silk Times Love happened to be one of those groups. So she recognized the DJ from being in the Jet magazine, so she was like, I know her. I've seen her in the Jet, so they are somebody that saved me because Chris, and Chris was like, nah, I'm not giving you my number. Like you said. It was like or in Atlanta missing and murdered kids, and they was from that neighborhood, so you know, it was a stranger thing to you know the situation. So, um, I'm telling like, y'all want you to come over to my house and kick it. And they were still like come over to your house and kicking what are we doing? Like because they weren't into music, so they didn't even understand what I was trying to get them to do. Um. So you know, that passed and I would like go get them from school and just try to hang out with them, and I become their friend more than just talk about music. So I did that and then I started noticing that they was in the backseat rapping to music that I was playing, and it was wrapping all the lyrics and really doing that ship in the car like the Ice Cube America's Most Wanted. The whole album I heard pays They was going crazy in my car. Kids actually gravity towards it that I actually like because usually, like the generation with Divide, kids are always liking the ship that I don't like. You know what? I was about the same age as criss Crossing came out, hold On and like America's Most Wanted, like ice Cube was my ship around avoidable. Yeah, that's that's what there was like ice Cube fanatics, but it's all they wanted to hear was ice Cube. Um. So we played a whole ice Cube tape from their house to my house and they was wrapping all the lyrics. So I was thinking, like, okay, so if they like this like this and they're wrapping every word and they're doing all the inflections, they sound just like he sound when he moves his voice. I said, if I figured out how to do that and write a song for them that they liked, they possibly could do the same thing for me. So then I just went in the house and I told them, someone write a song for y'all, and if y'all like it, I need you to wrap it just like y'are doing this ice Cube Ship and they was like, okay, whatever. So I did this song where I sampled Michael Jackson UM and Paul McCartney called the Girl's Mind, and I was trying to make them fight about the girl's mind. And this was the song that I wrote, and I sampled Paul McCartney Michael Jackson and I put left Eye on the record because she was the girl. Girl this story. Listen, listen, never, never, never never. She's the girl. So it's like my idea, like the girl is mine, he's Paul McCartney, he's Michael Jackson, and she's the girl. This was my whole little scheme. Okay, even though you won't let the public ever hear this. Do you know where that I mean? It's a tape. Yeah, I know it's a tape, Okay, So you know that was the beginning. I'm starting to make these songs. And then I realized that they weren't Paul McCartney and Michael Jackson. They were little ice cubes like they want. They were from the south west south of Atlanta, which people call the Spots. That's where they from. UM, and they would come home from school and tell me stories about how Jamay, you don't even know. It's little kids in my school is eleven years old. They're selling all the dope. They got all the dope, and they had like socks where they wear shorts and they have like multiple socks and they put all the work inside the socks and they go to school. So they used to give me all this game, and I didn't know about because I didn't finish school like that and I didn't go with these kids. So I used to just listen to them and be amazed, like damn, this is crazy, and I'm like, who knows about this? So then I just started thinking about them wrapping ice Cube and the stories they was telling me, and I'm like, little boys in the Hood, this is what y'all are, y'all. A little Boys in the hood is boys in the hood with y'all a little boys in the hood, and y'all see the crazy ship that everybody else sees but don't know why I actually believe it. So that was my goal to write a song called Little Boys in the Hood. I wrote this song and I sent the song to Joe the Butcher and Pilly. And when I sent the song to Joe the Butcher, he hit me right back, like I love it. Let's sign them. And I was like, what, oh, ship, we gotta deal. Just like that, he was ready to go. So then he brought us the rough house for basically it wasn't real deal. It was the Hub development deal. So it was a five songs development deal. I didn't have five songs. I had four songs, um and he was like, well, we need five songs. So on the night or the day before we was going to Philly, I wrote jump classics always been written. I wrote this song. I wrote this song in thirty minutes everything. What did it start from? What? Jump start? Like? What was the first thought in your mind? Kids? Something? Something something kitty something kitty. So I went after Michael Jackson like he was a kid. This was they was they was kids. So he was a kid artist sample something Michael Jackson. So I started playing with the turntables and I heard this ABC and I was like, I shouldn't let it play all the way out and just catch something. And I don't know what made me do that, And I just caught the first part boom boom boom, and I left it and I was like, this ship sounds crazy. I went back and I did it again boom boom boom. I stopped it, and I'm like, I'm not letting the rest of it play. I'm just keep doing like that. Wait, motherfucker, you're trying to wait, don't say it. Don't say you're not saying, do not say it, Like we all know that's I want you back. And I mean, well, I said the wrong song by bad I got to come, you know that's I said ABC. I said ABC because I was still didn't know that that's what was. Here's the ship that's killing me. The ship that's killing me was the whole genius of that song is a fact that you managed to find a way to make funky worm oh match perfectly in key. I mean, look, I love the Botomb Squad to death, but we know that calling card was just throwing on the wall and see what works. They were not the Atonal and you know radical. So when I first heard that ship, I was like, yo, there's some genius ship. Like, how do you know that these ships is going to see the being the same bpms and in the same key. So I'm thinking this whole time, you scientific experience. But as with every producer that comes on the show, there their pct resistance. It's always like some afterthought, like ten minutes it like, well know what the funky Worm part. I played with it for a minute to get it to sound like that down to yea, Yeah, it wasn't. That was like, oh, let's go because you know, like I said, you gotta think about I just explained to you exactly who criss Cross was. Criss Cross was two kids from the hood that was in love with the West Coast rappers basically ice Cube at that point in time, right, So the Funky Worm was me grabbing what I thought was the West Coast for them so that they would like it. The sample was me trying to find something that was like Kitty because Michael Jackson was a kid in this era. So I was just trying to put all these elements into this one song out of every song. I mean, we already had to deal with little boys in the hood, but I was just like, it could be better than this, and it could be better than this, and um, I just started and I started thinking about every element of hip hop that I could give these kids because I knew that they could wrap at this point, like they was really rapping what I was doing. They I mean for whatever reason I said they could wrap. They was rapping whatever I had sent them, they would do it. So I was like, ship, let's this ABC, and let's just let's just go all the way? Can I ask this might be a crazy question, but now the veil is up and Chris I know now that Chris Cross didn't write their lyrics leave me alone? Um? Is that that was a surprise? Um? A little bit. It's not a little bit of surprise. I thought more of a collaboration. But does that mean the same thing for another bad creation in that way? Like I used to to assume that, like Michael Bimons did the same thing. Say, the first child rappers are the first kid rapper to really start writing their own You know j D wrote everything? No, he didn't know wrote some stuff, right, come on? Can I get to the science of him? A producers? But I'm just saying that in terms of of of who taught you, because it's the thing. You're the first producer that I've spoken to since the show that is putting marketing savvy right also in his production thoughts. Because even me as a producer, I'm certain that there's some you know, like the equivalent of when you lose your glasses in there on your forehead. Now I'm thinking like, damn, what obvious ship should the Roots have done to really grab fans of like live music that we didn't do? Because never once in my history that I think of, Oh, what's what's the marketing thing? We need a new earth within and fire? Why don't you guys, you know, I'm I've never heard a producer talk like a manager. So what I really want to know is where did you get your manager marketing savvy from? Because that from the doors being closed? Right. So when I was here in New York and I had six Times Leather, I knew RhD Alert and Chuck Chill Out from being on the Fresh Fest and I knew them as a kid. And then when I started making records, I'm thinking like, oh, I'm gonna just run up on here. They're gonna play my records. So it's cool. I know these guys. So I went up to, you know, to radio shows, and Red was like, this ship is wack, like this ain't this, ain't this ain't gonna workt And I'm like, and they told you at the time, you're fifteen, they told me, and they and they also was like Atlanta is not you know, it's the country. Y'all need this country and blah blah blah blah. So I started building this mindset that it was gonna be hard for me to make music anyway or to put my music out because people weren't gonna listen to it. That's what I just started thinking. So I started thinking about everything that I could possibly do to get people to pay attention to my artists besides the music as well as the music. So and then left I was big on helping me do that because she was starting to put this condom over her left eye and just thinking of crazy ship. So I was cutting my eyebrows off, and I was doing all you know, haircuts and ear rings and nose and we was doing everything that we could possibly do to make people pay attention to us. Right, So then it was like we need something else. We got the song I got jumped, We need something else. When I did a jump. When we did jump, they closed weren't even on backwards when we did jump. They they didn't have braids. Let me say this, they didn't have braids on the first on the jump cover. They don't have braids. If you look up, they got fly they got flat tops, right, they didn't have braids. So then it was like, we gotta take this another level. We gotta take it to another level. We're gonna go to the mall. You're gonna put your jump on backwards, and we're gonna see how this works. And it was like why and I'm like, just listen to me. Put the jump on back when he had to jump on already. I just said, flip the ship around. Let's go to the mall. He put his jump on backwards and we went to Lening Square and it looked like he had a sign on his chest that said come towards me. People was walking up to this kid, and I was like, and I just sat back, like, oh, this is it. It's over. It's over with. This is over because once these people hear this song and they see that they dressed like this, we're gone. And I don't know what was the traction with the backwards James, It just happened like that. You don't know what made you go turn it around or do something not do I mean, we were the only person I knew that spoke of a marketing angle and ship that I never even wanted bother to think about. Yeah, we was trying to do things. We was in the house making tie t shirts and tie jeans and just trying to you know, because you ain't got ship, you try to make something right. So that's what it was. We didn't have nothing, so it's like, what can you do to make that sweatshirt look better than what it does? Right now? Cut the sleeves off. You know, we didn't just try anything right, So it's just to try to get attention and put the word quest over his his his, his um. This jumper was already a hundred sizes too big. It was like a jibbo jumper where you you could get in there with him, right, So it's just like just flipping around, just flipping around. So he flipped it around, and you know, people were like bugging out, like where did you buy this at? And I'm like, it's the same ship you got on. But were they fearless enough to be like any crazy ship I'll do it, because you see, I would have been like they. They they started doing talent shows. I started taking them do talent shows and performing songs before we had jumped, So they started getting the bug to be artists, and they started seeing how more people like them than what was liking them in the mall. And once you get that going, then you start trying to make shure that people recognize you. So how did you feel about when another bad creation was starting to garner steam? And you know, in your head, we're like, Okay, this's good for us, like we have someone to compare them to. And no, no, I would, I wouldn't really paying too much attention to that. It's not because another bad creation is from College Park. We are from College Park. All all of my like me and Dallas Austin is like this, that's my dude. Like so all they was all at my house. Like when he's making ABC, I was in the studio with him. He was doing this like we all cool. I mean, at one point it was like listen, j D got a little boy group. We got a little boy group. It's a competitiveness going on. So I started feeling that this competitiveness of people talking. So I was like, you know what, y'all gonna be real rappers. And if you're gonna be a real rapper, we're gonna we're gonna make sure that people know that they want to be an R and B group and y'all over real rappers. And that's the only way we could make people understand that was to say something about it. So at this point, how are you splitting up your brain because you said that you and Left Eye or y'all y'all are friends. She just got to the condom and the eye and where is the where's the TLC bus? You no, no listen. So at the same time that I'm making criss cross, Ian introduces Left Eye to t Bos. So then they become a group in my house called Second Nature and they become my group. And um, the way t bos sings is the Germaine Dupre style of singing. Like the way she sounds. The reason why she sounds uh, that's me because you can hear me. That's me doing that. Now. That's how she sounds. Because I demoed the songs and I told her she should sing like me and for the rest of her life, I mean, it became the It just became the cool thing for her. So the first song that I did for her was this song called I Got It Going On and it was like, oh God, it go uh, And that's the tone that she took and Dallas heard that and started making these TLC records and they used that tone for the rest of her career. But why signed them because I because the boys got signed first, right, So I was more connected to Chris crossing more into their project and then left. I called me one day and she was like, yeah, we just had this meeting with Pebbles. If you if you'll watched the vah one movie. She makes this phone call and she called somebody, but they don't say it's me. She's calling me and she's calling me to see if I'm cool with them having the meeting, right, And I said, yeah, go ahead having me and I'm cool. At that point, I wasn't thinking about having all of the artists under my umbrella. I was thinking about them getting signed so I could get some more money to make records. So I was like, they're gonna sign you, just make sure I produced you when I get some money. So I encouraged them to get signed to the face and you know, that was my group walking out the door. But they was. They all started at my house, um with UH. I believe. I believe my internship at UH at rough House was the first day that you guys went to Europe to open up from Michael Jackson because I know I know that Chris Cross opened up from Michael Jackson on the Dangerous Tour. Then, so what was were you a part of their setument? What was that ship like? And how could like we're there, the audience is as familiar with you guys there as it was in the States. Totally jump was crazy. Um being on tour Michael Jackson was just like nothing that you could ever imagine, you know what I mean. It's like the way this guy came into his show. Just just the whole setup of the whole ship like safe for instance, this was like the cafeteria area when you're eating right, and you know how cafeterias are when you're in tour. It's the open or as a place that you go into. Well, on his tour, it was always an open space. They did it in the open space. They didn't do it inside of thing because he wanted everybody to see when he was coming in, and how they draped us off so we wouldn't see him where he went. It was like like they would like he's coming around the whole room, so you're sitting there knowing that he's going that he's walking by, but you could see him on the way in because he had the police following him. He would do this was real ship. He would come in and then he across and then he would um and he would you know, he had he had tell the managers, tell Kristen, I'm in the you know, I'm in my dressing room, come home, let me whatever for they whatever. So he never let me go because it was just like, you know, not too many people go in the new dress room. So Christena'm there, go back there kicking with him and they come back and they'd be like he fucking with us, Like he'd really be like, you know who we are? Because I was always trying to figure out if Sony made the move, because everybody was on Sony to put criss Cross on there, and he was really more like really focused on Criss Cross being on his tour and he liked the fact that they was young and they had that energy to give before his show came on. Was it was it easy to teach them like, uh, things that you don't learn, uh you know, I mean they're they're in stadiums and stadiums. I know he's playing eighty five people like, how do you teach them how to project to people? Like, but that's that's what I tell people all the time. You know, I got this TV show and wrap game, will I teach these kids? And I try to tell these kids all the time, like everybody think they can rap, and everybody think they got this swag, but they ain't really got that ship like what I've seen Criss Cross. Like I said, when I met them, they had a whack that I had never seen in eleven and twelve year old. So they was instantly easy to grab onto what they were supposed to do to continue to have that swag that they thought they had before. So when the record blew up, they was doing shows every day. Criss Cross was like the first rap group to do Um Cameo Summer Jam, then catch a helicopter to do Power one O six in the same day, and then get on the plane and come back to New York and do something the next day. Like That's how they was. They was performing because of that song. So they got the practice in and they got enough practicing to know that when we get out here, we can go into them and do stadiums. Their mentality was we're gonna kill this and they just was into it. Was it overwhelming for them, Like it's to start at that level, Like how do you how do you come down from that level when you're you know, one of them. I'm certain that you didn't have any idea that million units. Yeah, you don't know what to do. You're just going with the flow, you know. It's like I said, it's like it was a thing that wasn't even supposed to happen. And I've learned that these kids could wrap and they did it and it just turned into that and you just like sitting back watching like this is crazy. And it wasn't hard to keep them focused at all on nah. I mean because like I said once again, once they realized that they was rappers and people was looking at them like this, they were so into it. I wouldn't. I didn't have any problem. They was so their appetite was worse than mine. So you got to develop your Yeah, So Chris Cross sold eight million, and then Sony wanted to do more business with me, and they wanted me to have my own label and they wanted to see what I could bring. They didn't know there was I was nineteen years old by the way. They didn't know what I could do, So what did you see an escape that told you, Okay, you guys are next, I see how I can escape. Came to my house. The same guy Ian who brought left out of my house. He brought escaped to my house to sing for my birthday. And there was this girl group from College Park that was out there doing things, and they came and they sung Happy Birthday to me, and I was just like, y'all sound different than regular happy birthday than I regular you know, I'm usually here. I'm just I'm liking this happy birthday, right. So I'm like, um, when I get my label, I'm gonna sign y'all. And he was like, yeah, okay, what if I ain't have so so deaf. I just told him I was gonna do it the same thing I did with sometimes that. I just said, I'm gonna do it. I ain't have no label yet, but I knew I was gonna get one because we're selling too many records. So um, they came and like, I got my deal and I'll call in. I said, y'all want to sign these girls? And at that point I knew that I had to define myself as a producer, because that's what I wanted people to pay attention to me. As as a producer, you have to show people that you have the skill to do more than what people thought you could do, as you know, just rap music or whatever. This that in the third and I had all this other musical talent inside my body that I hadn't let out on the Crisscross record. And I signed Escape and I started writing their songs. And the first song I wrote for them was just kicking It and you know, and and I made Candy sing just like I made Tea Box saying that's why she's low in that song, um, And you know, it was the same. I had already been setting myself up for this type of stuff, so I just was sending whoever came in through the same process that I had already started earlier. Now I mean around, I mean, we're getting into what I feel like the true the business element of hip hop, where now bad boys developing, bad boys developing, death rows developing. Um. But then there's also like kind of we're entering the danger zone, like it's not well, I mean, you've been around since he was twelve, so I'm sure you saw some dark ship that you know, Yeah, twelve years shouldn't be see him, but I mean I've seen people get stabbed after midnight. Jesus Christ, the spaghetti Factory, I wasn't born yet. It was on Spring Garden, Spring Garden anyway, but it's at least at that time in I considered, Okay, now, now the business mecca to be New York, which is Puffy l A, which is Shook in Atlanta, which is you, and okay, I'll throw in Houston, which of course because I fear for my life Jay friends. Um So, now that you're your empire, how do you deal with the not the muscle aspect, but now you're playing with the big dog and you see what's going on rivalry wise and all that stuff. You've kind of been switzerling with all this stuff as far as neutral. You've been cool with New York Cats, has been cool with How hard was it to maneuver, you know, through what was developing in hip hop at the time in for me because I felt like, you know, um, I started out on the Fresh Fest, so I started out with everybody being my friends. So that was my mentality. So like when Puff started doing parties here in New York. I heard about them. I come to New York and come to Puff parties and see what it was. I wanted to be around all my competition to see what they was doing. So I came New York. I became Puffs friends. We called it hang it Out. I go to his party's party kick and see how he's storing parties. And I go back to Atlanta. I throw my parties right and then um once I would come back to Atlanta and throw my parties. I would say, like, Yo, I met these guys. I need to call them down to Atlanta and come, you know, come party with what I'm doing, right, and they and they I think my none interest in what they was doing was interesting to them. Like I wasn't interested in what whatever they was, Whatever they was doing that was cool. I was still trying to do what I was doing, you know what I'm saying. So like when all the artists Record Labels was doing rap, I went and did R and B album, so they wouldn't really they couldn't follow. I didn't have no pattern that everybody was going on. I was going through. Like when I did Escape, nobody else was making R and B. You know, R and b groups. Everybody wanted to rat right, So then when I did the BRAT, nobody want't with female rappers. They was all trying to do guys, and it was like, so I just kept seeing this like, oh, I'm a maneuver like this, I'm gonna do something different, do something different. So um, long story short, I just I saw that as my place. I saw these guys just trying to fight for the same space, and I'm like, shout, I'm cool, I'm getting my money, I'm doing what I'm doing in my own space, and I'm gonna just be cool with him. Um. I didn't even know like how serious this East Coast West Coast thing was getting. Um, so I invited both Puff and Shook to my birthday party in Atlanta, um and not thinking about anything like you know, just come, I want you all to be there. I want to have that flavor in Atlanta and at my birthday party. UM, I don't know that somewhere around Well, this is when it hit the fans. Remember this, This is this is when it hit fans. That was your birthday they depicted in the movie, but they never said it was it was my birthday party. When the ship hit the fan. I didn't even know. Yeah, and I didn't. I didn't realize that that was what was happening. But they both were brought to Atlanta by me, and they came to Atlanta and you know, um, they were eyeing each other throughout the party and it was like a thing. But I'm thinking that, you know, that's how hip hop is. And then it got to it after my after my party went to an after party and um, you know, words was said and somebody got killed. Yeah I didn't even know. Yeah, Okay, that's quest. Now I'm like trying to figure out where, like where does um Brad to the B Side fit into this? Um? Okay, so so so um, there's so many stories. But all right, So, when like I said, Me and Puff was cool throughout this whole period of making music. And at this time, Functified came out, and it was three hot records that came out. One was super Hot, which was Flavoring Your Ear, The second one was Functified with Me and the Breath, and then the third was Juicy Fall of hip Hop. People that it wasn't a successful record like Functified and playing year so Big was Big was so frustrated with the fact that we was having success in flaving year was killing him and he was coming on stage and people weren't really like understanding who they was looking at. So then Big thought, I'm gonna get cool with j D and I'm gonna get him to make me a beat. So every day we went on this tour, we went on chicklest Circuit tour where it was just these three artists to Bratt, Craig, Mack and Biggert and we went all around the little chit and thirds and did all these shows. So in that time period, me and Biggie became really cool and he talked to me all the time about how did you like, how did you get honey? How do you get honey popping like that? Like why people don't like my record? Like he was asked me all kind of crazy questions because he was under the impression that nobody nobody like because we was in the South. By what, this is not New York, this is the South. We was in Florida, we was doing in Atlanta. Juicy wasn't nothing serious, nothing but the numbers. So that was all New York. That's all Northeast, all Northeast. That's crazy. Because even culturally, I would think that when the smoke clears Juice, everybody freest out over. Yeah, but I feel like Juicy is some more iconic. It is, but it was like it took forever. But no, no, it wasn't that. It was it just had to be worked. It was just, you know, it was the beginning of working your rap records. It was a hard sell. Did Juicy record was a hard sell for for for the other areas like the South, you know what I mean, it's almost yeah. So so you know, Biggie was like, yo, um, you know, make me a record, do something for me, man, let me do something, do something for me. So he asked me so many times that once they released Big Papa, he wanted me to do the remix Big Papa. So he told Puff JD's doing the remix a Big Pop because he didn't believe in the success of Big Pop. He didn't think it was gonna work. He thought they was gonna have to put out the j D version in Indiana where I grew up, that's the version, That's the version we heard on the radio. Damn. Alright. So so so when Biggie, when Biggie came to do well what. So Biggie said, yeah, I want to do a real remix. I want you to redo the beat. I don't want to wrap over this. I want you to take Let's do a real remix. So he wanted to actually make a new song. In his mind, he was like, yea, I'm gonna go to Atlanta'm gonna make a new record and it's gonna relaunch my career. So he came to Atlanta. I said, we're gonna re vocal big I mean big Papa. I'm gonna give you a beat and you could do to wrap over. So I made the beat and he wrapped the song over when he finished rapping, because he wrapped the song so fast and he was done so quick. When he finished, He's like, let's make another song. And he was like, were honey yet? And I'm like, who are you talking about? He was like, Bratt, she hit over here. Brad actually lived upstairs in my mother's house, so she was upstairs and he ain't no. So I was like she upstairs out, tell h come now. So he came downstairs. He was like, yeah, I do want to do some honeymoon, make a record, Gonna do some honey I'm like, all right, let's do it. So um, I wasn't. I was just like, I know what he wants. I was just trying to think of, like what would be a jump fast record for Biggie if I could give him that record, and I wanted to give him a loop, I wouldn't. I wasn't trying to just make a beat. I was like, we're gonna sample something. You know, we're gonna figure it out. And I put up the outstanding beat the loop, and I was like, rap over this, and you know, this guy's incredible. He made that beat sound like it had a baseline on it before I even put the baseline on there. So then I was just like he was like, Brad, you're gonna come in after me. So he started making the song and I'm trying to make the beat at the same time while he's rapping, and this song just happened. That's why we don't have no titles called the B side. It was just like, what's the name of this song? Went that just rap and it was like, that's how the song came about. So man, all right, So okay, I'm I'm just skipping a little bit because I know we got limited time. But um, even though I mean you're you're associated with many artists, I always feel like you're crowning achievement as a producer. Was working with Ussher than Yeah, And first of all, how does that happen? Because you use spearheading? Like how do you take the little kid who did just call me a Mac? And how did you how did you take him and fully develop him into the artist as far as like choosing his songs and like what was it that? Um, it's basically the same situation that I had already been through, right, Um, I started Usher. Usher came to me when Chriss Crush was popping and he asked me to sign him. I told him no because I was tired of dealing with parents at this particular point point. So Chris Cruss was getting big and their parents was like arguing and fighting. It was all the parents, and I'm like, I'm not dealing with this ship. No, I don't want no kid wrappers, I mean kids artists. So I passed on sign the Usher, and then The Face signed Usher, so then that called Me a Mac album didn't really really work, but everybody felt like Jermaine could revive your career if you go to a remix. So, um, they brought me, Um, what's the song? Um? Think of You? So they brought me think of You and they said, Jermaine, please do a remix to think of You. So I did a remix to think of You. And in the midst of that, I felt like the song needed a bridge because I was just trying to figure out some way to make my remix feel different than the record. So I added a bridge to the song and I told us he had to come in and sing the bridge over. So when he came in, he sang the bridge that I had written for him, and he sung it just like I had him, like I did it. And then they heard his vocals and they was like, oh, Ship, what did you do to him? And I'm like, I just told him to sing the bridge. And it was like, well, would you work on his next album? Like just take him and do whatever the hell you want to do with him, and I'm like that sounds crazy, but okay. And I didn't know what to do, you know, I mean, I didn't know. They just put it in my hands, and I felt and I found out that if it didn't work with me, usher would have probably got dropped, right, So yeah, so, I mean, you know us. She came to my house and he became like a social death artist. He basically stayed in my house every night and we just talked and worked and talked and worked and talked and worked until we got to my way. Well, what's the process of you getting these songs album? Because I mean, these aren't like average songs. He's like staples, you make me wanting and all that stuff like how did you what? What's your process of getting to know the artists and what type of songs the right song? And who? I mean? Well, I went through a bunch of record so I've started making songs that I thought were like, um, I don't even know what you could call the first songs, but I know that he said, y'all, I don't want to be like that. I want to be like Bobby Brown. I want Bobby Brown to fear me. So then I started looking at my prerogative. Check. So I started looking at my prerogative and I'm like, okay, well, I'm thinking like I can't make no harder recording my preprogative. This ship is crazy and Teddy Roley's my idol. So I'm not. I'm like, he, I can't make a better record than my prerogative. So I was just trying to make records that I felt like with go to bat with these songs at least right. So I made nice and Slow and I played it for l A and he didn't like that song, and I'm like, how do you don't like this song? And I'm like, nobody's doing this, nobody's doing you hear how U's just singing? Sever In this case, I'm saying, who you know we're talking to? Like as a R and B artist, They weren't getting none of that ship. So that song was like put to the side. So then Usher was like, man, this I need something like prerogative, but this is my I want this ship my way and I was like, oh my way, okay, let's do that. Let's do it your way, and we started making my way and then we got to my way. My way was probably gonna be the first single. I didn't have to make me want them, and my Way is probably gonna be the first single. And I wrote him a rap he was wrapping. It just felt like it was like the new sounds for Ussher. But I still wasn't convinced. I wasn't so yet. I was like, ain't like nice and slow? And I was on the nice and slow ship. I was trying to get that off, like the singing rap type, singing right, and they weren't really sold on it. So um, l A was like, we're gonna put out My Way as the first single. And when he told me that, I left the office and I went home and I started making you make Me Want Them, and I was like, I just felt like he didn't have that one yet. I was didn't he didn't have that one, So I started making you make Me one and I wrote the first verst and I had to hook and I played it for us and he was like, I ain't really what I'm talking about because he wanted to mar way. He wanted the prerogative, you know, he wanted that. So I was like, I said, you tripped him. So I left and I took the song back to the face and I played the song for l A and he was like, Yo, go finish that song right now. That's it. So I went back to the studio and I finished You make Me Want To, and I got usher on the song and he sang the song like he loved it and the rest is history. How often do you have to browbeat uh your artists when it comes to vocals? No browbeat? I'm sorry. I made it known on the show that the one process of production I hate the most is vocal takes. I hate that ship. So usually I have someone else because I don't have a good chemistry. Yeah, I don't have the patience. So how do you especially at the time, I mean, I mean pro tools was the thing here and there, but you weren't mid nineties, early mid nineties you yeah, literally working this. We'll see. My thing is this. You know, if you can really sing and you understand music, and you listen to my demo, then automatically is gonna sound better than what I'm listening to anyway, or what I'm thinking anyway. Right, So that's how I make my records. I'm like, listen to me first, and do exactly what I'm doing, but do it the way you would do it in your real singing voice. So most of the time when they do that, that ship starts start to sound way better than what I'm thinking. So for every for every hit that you have that I wrote, the reverse, it's so I mean I did this last like two weeks ago, three weeks ago at the ask Cap convention in l A. And it was like going go under the hood of confessions and I gave them basically a snap look at how I wrote that song and how the song came about and let them, you know, listen to me actually sing a song like that. It's interesting, I would know. I would love to hear that. No, not this, It's interesting Like I was the type of kid that took all my toys apart because I wanted to see how they worked. So like to be able to hear a demo, your demo of a song like nice and slow or something like that. But this is fascinating to me. It's bad, but you know what, but it's still you could but if I heard I could still hear Alec from that to the version. And that's why when you introduced me, you saund get the credit. I feel like people don't really understand that those Usher records is why Trey songs sound the way he sounded and the way Chris Brown started singing the way he sings. This is these records created that. It was definitely the template for it. Um, I know that also, Mariah came to you at a crucial point in her career before that not a crucial point. No, I didn't always be in my Baby, That's what I'm talking about. That wasn't crucial. She was the thing you gotta understand though, always be my baby and fantasy remix. That was a very radical term from at least from the tutelage that she was underwear Tommy Montola with making sure that I mean okay, like dream Lever had the break being and all that stuff. It was cute, but I'm still like it was a major key, Like it wouldn't start no riot at no mall in America, but at least with her insistent like yo, I'm trying to make some ship that like I would listen to in the club, like her going to Wu Tang and Puffy and going to you. It's like that was in my eyes radical, which you know, getting the record and being a condosseur of credits, I'm like, oh, they're loosening the reins on her, They're letting her work with us, and that's what So first of all, in working with her, was it a thing of like you're getting extrustions like don't go to hardcore. Know we already have one moved tanks only just try to give her no. We had this conversation last night, Um, I'm I'm the musical person when it comes to Mariah carry, she's the rapper. It's completely a flip when we go in the studio. We had the same conversation last night. You're the conservative one, and because I'm like, I'm trying to protect who she is at all times, because I feel like, I feel like, you know, she has an image that you can you know, if you can keep it in this space, just don't. You ain't gotta go overboard. You could just keep it in this space and put like you just said, she had a loop, but it wouldn't get people killed. It was still what we like, but it was not crazy. And I'm always like, let's make records like that, Like, let's continue the seventeen million, twenty million spot. I'm cool, what's wrong with that was never broken? Let's let's do it. Are the on the Gruard Day came out and like that's basically what she wants to do. So it's like Mariah is a rapper. The first day I worked with Mariah or I came to the student. She brought cream and she said, I wanted to sing over this and when you and I said, how are you like a little bit? And I'm like what And I'm tom total standing there when she did this, and I'm thinking, like you said, I'm like, I'm not with this cream ship. That's not gonna happen. I'm not doing wasn't Was it the fear of you didn't want to be the guy that the career. I knew because that would have been a great idea at the time when she asked me to do it would have made amazing, but you didn't want to be a guy holding it. And I like, like I said, I'm I'm I have a super super musical side of me. Right when I started doing R and B records, I turned into a very musical person that wants to hear a lot of different chords and different things and the way the song is supposed to go. So um, and I had just did you know usher? So it was it was R and B time for me, right, So I was like, I need something that fits into what I just do. So I'm having success here, Let's do something that has this field. So then Manuel started playing the boom dood d d d no. And I'm like, see if we put some eight A weight on that ship, it's oh wait, that's all I believe in eight O weight on anything. And that's it's about this period. Okay. Now I'm using the fine te term. What's the division of labor as far as uh, who is in your team? Your production team? As far as okay, it's and I'm right carry. I want to get it. Make sure that you know I'm right carry. Okay, I work with my carry. I'm like, yo, producer record? What is team dupri Like? What's going on? Manuel? Still? So what's the songwriting session? Like? Um, he's like you have something like yeah, he's just work right off, you know, right off the cuff. He's he's an extra keyboard player, guitar player, you know, he plays instruments. And um, I play what I play, and then I make the beats and I have the ideas basically and I write, I write the lyrics basically or how it you know if with Usher, that's how it was, was me and him and we basically did this song that whole album like that. Um, and we went to Mariah was me and when we made always be my baby the engineer or or mix your own records as well. Nah, yeah, I mean I do it. You know, I do my rough before goes, but I don't you don't touch that A mere mentioned seven and I always I feel like with Atlanta something happened between like nineties six and I don't know ninety nine where of course, starting with you, the music industry just built faster than any other industry in most major cities. Can you kind of freak or Jack the rapper? Well all, I mean you've got to consider all those things, like conferences were coming with you did have Freaknick, but like it just was a crazy like five years in Atlanta, and I don't know if everybody understands and how I broke down and whatnot. I mean, well, like you said, it was Freaknick. Those things it weren't happening in other major cities that that people were like looking like and post Olympics. So what point? What point was Atlanta seeen as you know, because I know that Northeast Northeastern people are very cocky and whatever, like are you country fire? But suddenly Atlanta's the ship? Like when do you feel that Atlanta like arrived. Like when when I was when I was having parties and everybody started coming. Um when when when if Jamaica pre have a party? Everybody was going to Atlanta for the party. Freak Nick was the start of this. But then I started, you know, I did this how can I Live weekend? Where no, no, no, no, no no no, A matter of fact, it wasn't. It was My thing was called can I Live? Right, because I had just did I had just did the money and the thing recorded. And what what was interesting, what I was getting back was that people felt like in the South, I introduced them to Jay Z right because people in the South weren't listening to reasonably you know, that wasn't their album. They weren't into that, none of those records in Atlanta, none of that was happening. So people was like they felt like I was introducing them to them and and Jay and everybody was coming to Atlanta, you know, taking his love. People come to you. Yeah, so that's what happened, so people, I think people started paying attention to this, like this momentum. You know, Mace came to Atlanta for my birthday party to get signed. Nellie came to Atlanta to try to get me to sign him at my birthday party. I had this crazy birthday party at the High Museum on Pea Street, and I had all of those guys there. I had New Edition there, I had Maya, Elton John, Um, everybody was you know, whoever was somebody was trying to be a Jamaica pre party and people were like I remember, like yesterday, even the paper it said, what does Jamaican pree have? Just making everybody wanted like Elton John, what do you have a reason to be around BBD and Maya and Jamaea de pre What's the purpose? What's what's a connection? I'm trying to imagine that conversation. Now, well you know Elton music. Yeah, well, I mean he wanted me to know he was cool and he came to party. But I think that's what it was, what you're talking about. It was just like people saw that happening, and it was it was just like like I said, I wasn't paying attention to everybody else. Whatever people was doing in New York, that's what they was doing in New York. I I was determined to make Atlanta stand out just like New York in l A like see then there was a point when Atlanta started taking in this and pushing his chest out with pride to the point where like it wasn't so much the Northeast record would get played first. Now Atlanta is supporting each other on the radio and its record that you would never hear other places. And yeah, yeah, And I just think that people don't really understand that about Atlanta in that way, Like I would say that about like somebody like Rashida, Like Rashida is a star in Atlanta because of Atlanta and Atlanta Radio and everybody embracing her when she was seeing Yeah, I mean it was you know, it was it was a it was a tug of war type of mentality because people weren't really receptive of things that was coming from Atlanta like that. Um almost to the point where Jamae Dupree was getting the success. So a lot of people in Atlanta was mad at me because I was getting success that a lot of them weren't getting at the same time. So it was like they didn't understand why my records was working. So then they that you have I've heard people say crazy shit about my records and you know, jd Ain from Atlanta and here I don't sound like outcast and this then the third like it was. But my my, my childhood and my life was different than that. I wasn't I didn't grow up in Atlanta. I grew up on tour. So can you explain? Can you explain the science of what would be now known as trap culture, because initially I thought that you guys were more of a refined what was supposed to be Miami's identification of bass music. I always felt that you guys were more refined bass music, like you guys did better work with those type of planet rock beats and Analds stuff, you know, and then trap culture develops. Yeah, how how do you feel? Like, are you, in your heart the old I know, you're technically not supposed to agree with this, Like are you the old schooler that's sort of looking like okay whatever, or like are you still about like if kids are about it, then match the future and I supported and that sort of well, I mean, it's it's hard to it's hard for me to even have to talk about this because if you listen to Germaine u prerecords that are like some non social deaf artist records, the records are trapped. Like if you listen to Grills by Nelly. This was before people start saying trap records this is. But but it's by Nelly and it became a number one and it's not connected to the trap, so it don't come off like that's what that is. But the sound of the record, the sound of the record, it's all the same elements. You know, the eight O way is overbearing, the small little kick, the franchise boys, bone crush, your young bloods, all of this ship is what you're basically listening to now. Um So to me, i'm I'm I think people disconnect me from being with that sound. But that's that's been the sound like you make me wanted to me, sounds like a trap record. Yeah, so I just I don't look at it as I look at it as like people were listening to that sound and they just decided what to do. I also feel like trap music ultimately, I don't like that title because I think people use that title to let us in as opposed to just saying it's the Atlanta sound. I wish people would stop calling it trapp and say Atlanta music like they say everybody else. That's that l a sound that's that New York sound, that's that Atlanta sound. Stop saying trap, because trap makes it, puts it in the box, and it's like, Okay, you a trap set. No, this is two hours of Atlanta music, music from all of the artists in Atlanta. You go to New York right now, you're gonna hear two hours of records from Atlanta. Stop saying trap. That's what I wish people would do. So what do you feel now? Is the future like, are you done with Atlanta or is it just starting? Like for you? Is there more to reveal to the world as far as what your next move is going to be. I don't know. As executive or um no, I mean, you know, you have to continue to keep finding ways to open the doors for Atlanta. So I got the TV show, and you know, with the TV show, I bring five kids to Atlanta and exposed them to what kids in Atlanta are exposed to. Um kids in Atlanta have it better than mostly every other city kids out here period, Like in Brooklyn, I don't think they have talent shows for kids with kids here don't do things. I don't think they have skating rinks where they allow you to perform I don't think they have. It's just when you want to be an entertainer. In Atlanta, we have more elements than you know. I find out because these kids come and they're like, yo, we don't have nothing. Like one of the kids came from Chicago and she was talking about how they closed the skating rinks and kids don't really have anything to do. Right in Atlanta, the kids got they can go to things and perform and people see them and do just so many different outlets that people are opening that we already had. So Wednesday, every Wednesday, every Monday, every Sunday. This is going on. So with all of this stuff going on, I'm still pushing Atlanta culture. I think that that's that's the most you know, that's the most important thing. And I still feel like Atlanta is yet to have their Kendrick Lamar or their J Cole or the jay Z. Yet in this era we had it prior. No no, no, no, what I'm saying we had it prior. I'm just saying. I'm saying in this era and this era, it feels like, you know, it's a new artist every week, right, feel like it's a new hot artist every week. So I'm just saying, I still feel like the city is so hot that one of these rappers that people look at as a problem rapper because like I said, they label everything in Atlanta so much is trapped that they don't fear anything. You know what I mean if you say he's just that's that's just trapped. So don't they don't ever get into the box of oh ship you know this guy. You know what I'm saying, it's never that Who do you feel that's unbeknownst to us? But who do you feel that's bubbling under that's gonna think an impact right now? Like what the artists do you feel that are? I mean, it's a lot of underground artists in Atlanta that really rapped that that could possibly do this. Um, I feel like I felt like was gonna be that guy for a second. Um. You know, he's with the right crew and he understands what I'm talking about. Like if a lot of people might not even know this sidehis from Atlanta Chicago, I thought, no, he's from He's from He's from the East side Atlanta, And I don't know that Kanye was from Atlanta. So I mean, you know, like I said, it's it's it's we still got room because of how people put it in the box. If people open up the box to do what I'm doing, and it might be a little different. But I'm saying I wish people would stop that because I think trapped. The word trap music came from E D M d j's wanting the ability to play rap music, and they said, and not call it and not call it rap music. Let me ask, can I pushed open the trap? No? No, no, no, It's never a battle, boss, It's never a battle. I'm about about the ane parade. How happy are you to do an interview in which no one has to ask you any? Janet Jackson questions, Yes, it is, that's why. No, Actually I didn't. I have a little john questions for that one. All right, I want to be the first. I mean, listen, you don't let me let me say this. I don't. Um, I don't look at any of that as as a problem because my life is not regular, right And if you if you don't understand that your life is not regular, then you won't be celebrating your life the way you're supposed to write. Um. I had a girl tell me like nigga, do you even know that? I don't know another person that's dated James Jackson. This is the girl told me, right, And I'm like, I'm thinking, I'm listening to her. I'm like, and I'm listening to her in in a in a not paying attention to what she's saying mindset. But then it hit me, like, that's what people actually think. So if you don't ask me the question, and it didn't, it wasn't something that resonated in your life. But I'm saying, but I'm saying, she's such a cultural staple in our culture that it's hard for people to ignore it, right, So I understand it. It's not something that you know. It is what it is. What was it like meeting the family? Like you have never heard me say about this before. It's the most shocking, Um, I want to say shocking moment. But it shouldn't be shocking because their last name is jack right back, and it's five brothers to the girl that I was dating. Six Randy almost kicked your niggas by the way, right, So I don't like the first time I went to their house and um, I think it was Jackie, and Jackie told me you know, I might probably be saying this, but Jackie said, JD, you gotta understand what life was like being at Jackson. He said he was the only and everybody listening to what I'm saying, it was the only niggas in California with Ferrari's in California, So you understand what I'm saying, The only niggas in that city in l A driving Ferraris and he went on to let me know, you know, they fucked everybody basically, and you know, it's like and one of the conversations I had with her was that she had she told me when we first started dating. Is that just understand I've seen everything. It's nothing that you can get away with. It is nothing that you can tell me that I haven't heard. I've I've hidden girls under my bed for my brothers because their girlfriend was downstairs. Like it's crazy ship that, you know. So when you meet this family, you think about them from entertainers, but they are just as normal as we are, and if not more ghetto with country exactly how they are. Did you ever remind Michael that he didn't talk to you on that tour when it was with Criss Cross no, no, no, you know that's another thing like you you know, with the Michael Jackson. Jackson you gotta pick a side. Okay, I'll hear you, all right, So I just can just asking Atlanta questions. You mentioned that Atlanta, you know, is in a place where most major cities aren't as far as programs and things of that nature. And one of those reasons, I feel like maybe because they are so new in this in this industry. But another reason is because of the politics in Atlanta. You know, not so much Georgia, but maybe Atlanta. And I was just curious if you had made because everybody's been talking about Atlanta politics lately and the young potential that you guys have, are you like involved in the culture of the politics of it. I mean, my goal is to make sure that people understand that Atlanta is mentally a different space, right And I grew up in a different mindset than he grew up in Philly. Where are you from Indiana? Oh? Yeah, I grew up in a different mind definitely different minds that than you in in in Indiana. Black people in Atlanta are not intimidated by white people and are not intimidated by anybody of a different color with money now never never, never, we have never been, never been intimidated, like to the point where we don't believe that we can do it. You understand I'm saying, like, and that mentality goes deep. That's the mentality that Martin Luther King had. If you listen to what he was saying, he was thinking from a unbothered mindset. He didn't believe anything could touch him. Based on what he was saying, And if he would have stayed in Atlanta, he probably was still been alive, right, because that's just that's the mindset of the city. Right when you look at you know, last two weeks ago, when I was filming the Rap Game, I took the kids from other cities and I called the mayor and I was like, Yo, I want you to be on my TV show and I want you to talk to these kids. And she was like, Okay, cool, come, I'm gonna give you time. Blah blah blah blah. Now that I made it look easy, But I'm saying, and when I'm looking at hip hop on the rest of these you know, the networks and all of this, how many times you see all these rappers hanging with their mayors, like it's not really a true connection. They represent their cities, but they're not really connected to way the way that we are in Atlanta, and we make and our cultural people. The mayors and the politicians, they make sure that they pay attention to what's happening inside our neighborhoods and what we're doing in these neighborhoods to get Atlanta to this place. Right, Atlanta is almost about to be the first state or city with a black governor and a black mayor, a female at the same time, both both black women. This is about to happen. And I just think that, you know, the mindset of a black person coming from Atlanta is just a lot different than everybody else. So I think that's why that's why that's going like that. It's like, we don't have no intimidation. I'll move next to you, got a big gass. I'm gonna get a big gas house, and there's nothing that's intimidating about me. Like it's no area in Atlanta, if you know, like in other cities they got white areas or they got a different area. In Atlanta, if this ship is hot, the niggas is going. That's what I'm said, like, oh that's what. Oh, over there, the house is called ten millions. Best believed my homework in College Park. He gonna be over there a week from now. Like it's nothing intimidating in Atlanta. Everything is no areas off limits. If it's the area where everybody say they're rich at, then big meat is gonna be over there, you know what I mean. That's just that's the mentality of Atlanta, and that's that's I want people to know that. And I think that's why people come there, because they start gathering that and like, damn, this is what's happening out here. You know. I never and I've seen Spike Lee do a lot in Brooklyn, but I don't believe that. I don't believe that, Um, Spike Lee could go talk to the mayor of New York and and they have a real cool thing and show everybody and it's something that's fly that happens and mayor understands what he's talking about, and he I don't. I don't see this type of stuff right. And that's why I feel like Tyler Perry, what he's doing only could happen in Atlanta, because it's no other place that supports the movement the way and it's no intimidation. There you have it, ladies, and we moved to Atlanta again for the future, once the future governor brother. Two quick questions, Um, First one, it's bragg on your catalog a little bit. Is there any record? Well, what's one record that you've done that didn't really get the attention you thought I should have done it should have gotten that you think we should all go back and let's get me answer that question. You're not Jermine dupre So. I'd like his answer. First. I'm still jumping the flip song I falling on the jay Z record. Okay, you know what? Yeah you did ye look at you and look and and the bellows hook. I sung it and he's singing it just like you work. You did a couple of records, records, Damn, I didn't because in my head, Puffy did that whole record. I got one for you, And I always thought this one, this song should have been a single. Different. I thought the song should have been a single. UM from Janet's twenty year old record twenty years Old, Do It to Me? That should have been a single with the Brenda Russell sample that ship is my favorite song on that record by far. And my last question, Yes, you've worked with a lot of people, like all kinds of names, big small. Who is on your list of people that you want to work with that you haven't had a chance to work with yet? Nobody, nobody, nobody, not that at this point, because, um, I've been in a room with people who have the craziest work ethic and and you know, if if I don't see that and you outside of me working with you, it don't. I'm not really trying to go in a direction, you know what I mean. I had Aretha Franklin tell me that I wasn't talking to her enough when she was in the booth. That's what really made me really turn into more of a vocal producer and talked to the artists when they're in the studio. Because I was sitting in the studio, I think I was like a fan and I was just like Aretha Franklin singing my song like you can't tell the plain to soul nothing, and she hit the button like yo, you're gonna say song. She's like, why did you come away out here? If you ain't gonna talk to me? I go home and Cook, and I was like, oh, Ship, okay, this is what you want me to say, I'm gonna tell you didn't that note was wrong. And you know, she got me out of my that zone to just tell artists whatever I wanted to tell him. And I had already been like that. But when you don't, when you don't vocal the song and you just write a song and then you get somebody else to sing the song, it's different because usually when my vocals on there, I don't have to tell them because they're listening to it. But when it's an artist listening to somebody else, then you have to tell them exactly what you and I I wasn't really paying attention to that until I did the song with um Aretha Franklin, and that's one of the songs that I wish would have been bigger because I had a bigger record, But I read the frankly I would have been to meet understandably. So yeah, wow, Well, I still feel like I can't tell you because you've got you sold a lot more records than I have, so more records than I have, which that total is zero. So well, brother, I thank you for coming on the show. This this episode has been long overdue. Scariful Umain degree Lays and gentlemen, thank you. We should mention the future UH Songwriting Hall of Fame. Yes, Thursday, Yeah, seven two hours. I'm so high about this and and I'm going to work right now. I'm going to meet Mariah at the studio as we speak. Yes, well, alright, well when we have a teen Supreme Yeah, Boss Bill and Sugar Steve. This is a question. Love. We will see you on the next ground. M M, of course. Love Supreme is a production of My Heart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Questlove Supreme

Questlove Supreme is a fun, irreverent and educational weekly podcast that digs deep into the storie 
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