Of Course Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. What's Up, y'all? Last week on Quest Love Supreme, Greg filling Gains took us on a journey through his career for auditioning for Stevie Wonders Band fresh out of high school to work with the Jackson's during the Destiny the Triumph years, and he left. Greg he was telling us how he got Jack for his Riots credit for tim per cent of the publishing royalties for Michael Jacksons Don't stop Team getting enough and uh. He also said there was a Quincy Jones version of that story too. So there's part two of the special Gregg Feeling Gains edition of Course Love Supreme. Here we go. So you know it's well no oh no, no, no no, no, no, no, no, no, no, not that. There's something a lot more subtle. Op. Huh no, no no, no no no. You're never gonna get it. You're not gonna get it. I'm going to set it up for you because you're never gonna get it. The set up. It's good in it, having fun with you. Want to do another one? Okay, So here's the thing the thing is is So it's me and it's Neil stupid house and oh, I want to say, Paul Jackson's you and your guitar wife. I'm not sure, but I think so. And I'm pretty sure it's j R. And drums. We're in the studio and we're just vibing, you know, we're just right about here. We're vibing, you know, and it's a nice little thing going on. We're just finding you know. Quincy's like, hey, you know, you know, I'm We're just vibing and this vibe is being recorded, you know, right about here. And Okay, some time passes, and I don't mean hours, I don't mean days, I mean some time, and now Quincy is working on I think I figured it out. I believe so I believe. So wait wait wait, wait, wait before you all say anything about it. So and it says, yeah, you know, um, we're doing this thing, and I wanna I wanna recreate that groove thing, you know, I want to recreate that thing that's right about this temper right here. And so if you think, you know what, what is the song secret? Oh damn, I had the wrong one. What's out? Then Okay, and that's okay. Yeah, damn, Oh, there's a story for everything. There's a story for everything. So it's like, I love Quincy's dirty draws. But he never he would never admit that, because you know what, I asked Hi about it one day. It's like, what are you talking about? A long time ago asking and he reared up at me, like what are you talking about? Okay, I get it. After that, it's pretty stupid. Well, I mean, it's the here's here's the king. The thing is this I I was too busy being hurt. I was too busy being emotionally affected, as opposed to saying, oh hell with this, I'm fighting this. But really, are you really prepared to fight Michael Jackson for a piece of a song? With Michael and his his his team of lawyers. Are you really gonna you really think you're gonna like succeed in that? They have a freaking prayer? So what am I gonna do? You know? And so um, I had to suck it up. But what I lost and looked ten percent? Please, I'd be living next to Quincy with of that. But you know what I lost in revenue, I'd like to think I gained in a relationship because it went from that. And by the way, it ain't just that. What else you got? Oh? How about did did the did the end of Heartbreak Hotel play itself? It was beautiful thank You, which was orchestrated doubled with strength because Michael said, um, we need some dramatic here at the end. So I came up with that and then they added new orchestra to that too. Did you start after this? Do you start looking around when you're just jamming making sure the button a plush? Because I'm too busy being inspired because it happened so quick for me literally, when Michael said, and we need some dramatic here at the end before you can finish the Jeopardy theme song, I just go, okay, Oh but then there what else you got? So now it's the dangerous Is it dangerous? It's dangerous? I think it's the dangerous album. I think it's a dangerous album. It's a dangerous album. And we're working on this one song and Michael says, beautiful song, by the way, beautiful and he says, um, um, when gonna do here is I'm gonna I'm gonna talk kind of like a monologue, thinking and I just want something. I want some music underneath, because in the closet, in the closet world, and I just need um. So I need some music because it's gonna be dramatic and I'm gonna talk talk talk through this thing at the end of it, you know, And so I just need some music. So it's okay, no problem, any takers, your mama? Is it is it? Is it a joke? We didn't? Is it? Um? What was the it's not here the world? Is it? That will be there? What will you be there? Thank yeah? At the end, thank you, at the end of the end, which was level with orchestra and choir, thank you. That is about another three minutes, if I'm not mistaken, somewhere to three on the Free Willy Money. Yeah. So can I ask a questions? So, um, can you explain to the listener who may not know that intricacies of of of what your what your jobs were at these at these sessions. So, can you just explain the difference when when um arranging becomes writing and when when associate producing becomes composed to see if I'd love to explain that, Except there's such a fine line, it's such a slippery slope. It's kind of hard to define because basically this is the equivalent of beauties in the eye of the of the beholder. Will arranging is in the in the eye of the who deems you uh an arranger, as opposed to a songwriter, as opposed to just an arranger, as opposed to just a little keyboard player that we're gonna give a check one time to and send him on his way because I want all the credit, right. So ultimately, those things come down to whether you are going to stand up for It comes down to either whether you're gonna stand up and fight it or if it's mutually agreed, mutually agreed in writing, have you ever seen someone been like hey, by the way, and then they didn't get a call back? Like have you ever seen someone get black balled or not used again? Or I don't even mess with that guy, he's a trouble maker. Yeah, nothing specific, But is there a way to be x nat and black balled from because you're in a sweet spot. You keep getting work, and you keep getting work, and you keep like you're on I mean between you're on every I know, but I mean whenever I would try to to raise a little dust. I always got pushed back. I mean there was the time when um, what was it? Uh it was Triumph M and and I was uh I was I was classified as an associate producer. Well I think wait, wait, wait things things things went on and on and on and on and on, and things were fine until one day I showed up to the studio and Bill Bray standing outside the door. He says, don't need you today, bubble what. I'm like, what are you talking about? I gotta go and just don't need you today, bubble m. They just decided that I was done. Wow, did you see something? Because no, no, no, no I did. I did nothing I did the day before I went into work. Everything was fine. The next day I go and I'm barred. Yeah, sometimes people barred because no, no, no, no no. They just decided they could take it over from there and they did not need my assistance. Yeah, they didn't need my assistance anymore. So they just said, okay, you're done by can all right. So my question him about Trumph Engineering one I do have. I do have a positive punchline story to the end. To finish, I said, but you know you want to ask, well, just the in the engineering of the Tramp album. It sounds very flat to me as opposed to how wide open Destiny was. And I don't know, I really needs you to tell me a really good, uh engineering story of of Bruce wardin what Bruce Weadin brought to off the Wall. It's like it almost it's like it's like three D almost who did the same with the with the same Do you remember who mixed the tump? I don't, but the same people were not involved, And I bab I kind of understand what you're saying sonically, but I just can't tell you why I'm not because I don't remember who was involved, So you weren't there for the overseeing of the mixing and none of that stuff. Side question. Um, those sessions sounded really fun because they absolutely were. It's almost to the point where I could tell almost what order was recorded because some of these songs you did the majority of the count off one to be four and then some of them songs, you guys sound like you were on your fift beer. I mean not that, but just sound like so what were the just the the sessions like, I mean, the best way I can describe it is fun. Everybo there was so much and how do you how do you learn this stuff? Like how does it come from? Here's the cassette demo and dada da da, like do you get the cassette first? And do you work out these full flushed arrangements? And how long we would wi We would hear the demo in some form, and then after I came up with the arrangement, I would just we we had charts. I have a chart. It's actually my wife insisted that I frame, uh the chart to blame it on the book. And so it's over. It's over at the piano in the house. So we had charts, um, and I would just do all out the parts. But it was it was heck of fun. It was just so much fun, fun fun. I remember, and I think it was during the Destiny album. I remember being in the studio part and uh, we were just you know, there wasn't anything going on officially, just kind of different things happening at the same time, just stuff going on. But I remember um hearing somebody playing drums and it was really funky. It was just like this thing and I remember peering around and it was Michael. He could play drums. He could play drums. Most people do not know this, but if you think about it made perfect sense because like Sammy, yeah, yeah, you know what I mean. And so he could definitely play and he was fun and it was I only saw it one time, and I was like, wow, as a matter of fact, I maybe there's a picture of and even younger Michael playing drums and I have it, said, do you have? I've seen that? Okay, but no, I saw him for myself and it was like, wow, this is I didn't I didn't see this coming. Oh my god. We didn't even get to like Thriller and Off the Wall fire and let me let me, let me give you, let me give you the positive punchline to all this negativity because li is as I was saying, what I lost in Revenue, I gained a relationship to the point where, um, you know, there was this one faithful evening where we were all together in this room, backstage in this arena, and ah, we were all together outside of Michael. I went to his room separately, but um, I'm standing there with the brothers in a circle, and I remember saying to them, you know what, Never in my wildest dreams did I ever think okay, after you know, listening to your records junior high school and watching your shows. I never ever imagined in my life that I'd be standing in a room with all of you as your music director, getting ready to tell you to have a great show. And it was backstage in Madison Square Garden and we were about to do the thirties. Mh wow. And to go from that point early in my life as a fan and having just fantasies about them and what it must be like to hang with them, to to actually be arm and arm with them in a huddle before we start the thirty anniversary shows and I get to tell them to have a great one. I can't begin to tell you what that's like. That sense of balance in your system is amazing because at the same time, it's like, here you are in that moment, but these are still the same guys. Didn't May did a couple of shady things to you, So you have to continue to be the bigger person and really just appreciate the moment and the bigger things that are yet to come. Well, um, thank you. All I can say is that you know, the the thing that that one over everything else was love, and we all realized that we really do love each other. Mm wait, I'm not done the technical nerd questions over here, like well, microphone, let me ruin this for a second. So we want to be starting something. Um, are you playing the synth bass the line now? Was sequencing out then? Or did you have to do that seven minutes in a row? No? I did it. There was a table looping on you sticking sequence. Come on, man, But look, dude, y'all y'all were playing with a lyne drum. So you're telling me for seven minutes but seve rope. But because I was, yes, a young and crazy like that, how many punchings did you have to do? Not many? Don't, No, dude, because I I graduated wonder you. Oh it's like Jimmy jam when he said when he would play all the stuff in h straight through and they went to school the princess. So yeah, I get it. Okay, it makes sense. No, I just just now I'm just thinking of all, like even you didn't veer off into one at Libert shake your body down to the ground like the last minute. No, that's not true. That's not true. You gotta I well, okay, there I had Yeah, okay, but but I paste it to that to your point, yes, I definitely paste it, you know. And another thing is another example of that is, uh, don't stop. I paced those legs too. I mean I I kept basically Oh, an even better example as thriller, that's what I want to get to. Yeah, oh, you already answered. You're not sequencing, so you're playing the stuff absolutely. How are you finding these patches because now that okay, now that the remixes are coming out, thrillers almost borderline a pre pre precursor to the E. D M at least with the patches that you're using. Like how long do you That's what I'm saying, like, and well, you know, we we had lots of help as far as programming. We had guys like that were we had Michael Bodacker, he was like on call. That was that was our our our go to guy, and there were others but or because he was playing on the jack he played, but he programmed. But he Yeah, that the the the strength I would say, was the program But was it a time is money atmosphere? So okay, so we're in the studio right now. It was whatever it takes to get the right down. Okay, but what's the patient's factor because it's like even okay, so even the little like right before Vincent Price's rap thing, how long do you have to like, let me try this, let me try this even with keyboards today, like it takes me twenty minutes to decide and this stuff is already pre set. What's the what's the time? Like, what time do you have to think of something cool? You have mere minutes? No, there was no time, There was no when it was right then, there was no consideration of time. It's just like Lily, I need this patch, I need I need this sound rather go and then however long it took, was however long? Duck? Mhm? Are you playing on beat it? Yeah? What is that? Intro? Gang? What is that noise? What is this? Could not tell you if you have a gun point it's oh god, it's I saw a YouTube video. It's an old obviously old synthesizer and they were going through the presets on it, and that was one of them, not not sin Clavi. I can't remember. I can't remember. It's been a while since I saw that video. But no, I have no idea, bro, what was that? Human nature? Is that the patient all those kids. Yeah, that's deep, Caro. They didn't need me for that. It's my man's deep. You know the story about that song, right, yeah, Rode listening to because that's at nauseam and then they're like falling asleep and stuff, and it's it's the auto reverse and then you know, and they're like in a semi sleep state, and I was like, what is that? The rest is history? It was Clapper by the way, okay, um that I kind of remember that now Clo okay, one ways is one of our favorite silly you guys, you're not gonna understand it, but in hip hop terms, that's all I can say. Yes, it's it's been shopped lovely to the point where like almost every line of that thing is the solo. Yeah, it means the world to us. It was done in ironic I think it was done in a very ironic way. But but it's just play it. I mean, it's you know, it's yeah. I mean the song has been out for forever. Wait, what's the title of it? Times like, um, yeah, this is Jesus Christy. Ya can't stand right here right hand? What's your man's worst night? Man? Enough the Bust Strike, ds on Close Trades. The game was not only days. What is the most strange? So ROMs like tom the like the is you just happy to see me? Trick, classical snapstick, wrappers, chap stick, a lot of so so, a little something to remember like the Alamo taloa hot joke like space game kick back for five year lanes. I mean, what do you say this? This is never heard song was like one years old. But see that's the thing you've heard. That's the first time here in this one hundred ways means something totally different to us. Like initially it was like that's mom and Dad's song. We're like easy, no, but he to that. Yeah, but he turned and even when I heard it, I was like, yo, I never ever thought this could be shocked And it's a crazy person who did that? Yes, a whole lot of time on that. Yes, actually did that? Who actually produced m F Doom? You're a crazy guy. You're crazy, bro is so well they Quincy tell you the story that solo he told you like he woke you up out your sleep. Yeah. It was during the time of of assembly line uh sessions and you when you went to work for Quincy, you knew two things. Um, no, you knew, you knew three things. Hey, it was gonna be fun, be you were gonna eat well. And see, you never knew how long you were gonna be here. So I mean, it's no o'clock in the morning, man, and I had done some other stuff and and and at this point I'm asleep under a piano. Somebody came in and woke me in and said, all right, you're up again. Okay, I in my stupor you know, I stumble up to the thing and that's a minimog and and Quincy's just right, So this is one hundred ways and we need a solo. Go that's who it was. He play at least before they play. Yeah, they played this song and I'm like, okay, so what you hear in that solo? Like it was the first take and I only did um so, you know bad, And then I only did like a couple of takes to finish it. But up until that point, that's the first take. And and and Quincy to this day says it's his favorite solo of mind because it was done in the what he calls the alpha state. What's what's known as the alpha state because you know, only he can be scientific with it. I was asleep, but you know he said, non, dude, it's the alpha state. Alpha state, because you weren't thinking, dude, do you don't know about this? There's there's a scientist that there's a scientist that did a research on her students owner students in which she would do pop quizzes on her seven a M class versus prepared test advanced notice to her smarter class at twelve in the afternoon and did better. Because it's almost like there's there's a middle ground of not preparing and over preparing and overthinking, and the genius zone is always in the middle where it's just like, no, that's that supreme he thrived. His goal is to be in that state constantly. Wow. And so that's what that's where I was. And again, it only took like three takes or so for me to finish, for me to finish it. But that that's just the first thing that came out. I have a question about the Bad album, um, and I guess I shared this theory and the documentary. It's what I call the brace Yourself moment, which you're a big part of. Like all these songs have to start with this stab from hell, this chord well not even bad. I mean, that's whybably easy patch. But like you know, like Dirty Diana's and that, Like by this point, are they telling you, okay, Greg, every song on this album we need, well, no, because that really wasn't me. Um, that wasn't no. Um those examples he said it like with Um, First of all, I'm not on Dirty Diana. I'm not on that at all. Another part of me. And actually I'm not on that either, Speed Deemon way you make me feel. I'm on the way you made me feel. I'm not on Speed Demon. Unfortunately. That's Jerry Hey, that's crazy, Jerry Hey, with those horns, Um, those horns, and that's what made this song, you know that, that's that's that's Jerry had to get tightened up for that because you know, Michael was a little uh you know, slow on that, and it's like equich, It's like oh no, no, no, no, no no, there would be no Speed Demon without that the horn horns arrangement. So you're gonna tighten up, Jerry, you know. But um, I am on the way you made me feel. And my favorite memory of that is, you know, because I played the string parstitute, right, So what I remember is doing that and having my standing next to me going vibing with me because I'm like, it's like moving, dude. How big is this? Just snaps? Dude? He had the big I know he had these big hands, and his snaps sound like clouds. Don't think yes because you think it's cloud is on the bridge of Rock with You, Yeah, but it's not. And when that's his fingers, I thought that it's his fingers. Wait, can I ask for Rock with You? Who? Well? I guess I should have asked Quincy instead. That horn intro, oh, the one that got removed? Why did they take that away? It doesn't make sense to me. It's just there's there's a horn intro to Rock with You that got Here's the thing that I love about Off the Wall. I certainly don't remember that. I'll play it for you off the record, yau um. The thing that I discover about with with thrilling Off the Wall is that a lot of this stuff is I can tell that at least what I assume the relationship between Michael and Quincy is let's try every idea out and then you're gonna trust me. To pull this away in this way and edit this and edit that. So there are a lot of elements on those albums that had they been there, Oh god, it would have been like the worst dated disco album of all time. Or you know, it's one slight mis step. So I applaud Quincy for knowing what the pull away. But there that's just ah, there's just moments of Okay. So I'm thinking that you were there on the ground floor of the horn intro instead of just the naked because what I remember about that was Quincy saying to um, they are I want to have a drumleg that's gonna live in infamy. I want to have a drum like that that that kids are gonna remember, you know, a hundred years from now. And so he came over. That was that bad question? Please tell me that by this time you went on the tour and you and Ricky were back together. Oh yeah, absolutely, Yeah, Ricky get that gig and not Jonathan Momfatt because you were the MP d uh, because I thought like Jonathan would have been for life. Yeah you think that. So how did Ricky get it? Well, Ricky also had the Victory tour, right, No, No, that was Jonathan on a victory? Okay, Ricky did bad and dangerous, but you did yeah with Ryl Crowe? Oh my what? And what were you three? You just made this woman's life. You could have been more than five. Okay, So still um, I still have uh. And so I don't remember, to be honest, because even though you know, he made me the m D and that whole process was so weird, he there were other people hiring people, so I didn't really hire everybody. So I I didn't hire the whole band. I mean there are certain people that were chosen before I was even asked, how did you present that show without the out of the age of pro tools? You know, because oh, oh well that's easy. We just had We just had like was it to at least two full blown synclavites? Damn? And back then that wash and I he was like whatever by any means necessary, I mean, the money was no object, and so we had like to full blown Well yeah, I mean because that was handled back to vocals and the and the the you know, the the extra tracks. Oh yeah, damn. What was it like when Cheryl Crow came into the picture for that tour? Like, what was what did she bring to the table whiteness because she wasn't the one with the lights in her hair. No, No, that was Jennifer Addams. She she was the guitarist. You know, you asked a very loaded question. My okay, because she was after that was exiit did it dangerous? Cheryl did bad? Um. I would say that the thing that Cheryl brought the most of us the silence, the silence here is this a hot topic? That something I said Steve the white person about the single know what she brought was a secret love affair? Oh here in my guard it Oh well between two people, and I was the other one. Oh oh, Graig can't like you can sniff? That was Fante's question. Yeah, you would. You got to say the perfect question me. Hey, listen, I guess you talking. I guess you don't say that coming hell. Wow, he's probably in the control room right now. Wow. Yeah, that's what happened. Man. No, I wasn't good because I was married. Leah, he said, secrets love Okay. How can you how okay? So not just the tour dolling explain that it wasn't just the name of the tour. How how can how can one can one be a working musician, uh, and have domestic normalcy. I mean, if you're doing the Michael Jackson Bad Tour, are you know what about the kids at home for it? Not just you just like the bass player or the lighting coordinator. Like you guys were going from from seven to the top of January nine. No, understand we ruined the world. Understand that, Yes, but um, we're girls flinging themselves over all of us, not over all of us. And I was in that group. I wasn't getting girls flung at me, you know because a lot of people us assume, oh my god, you must have had it ship bring out of your ears, and I no, no, it did not happen to me. I didn't need it from that perspective. But I just meant, like, if you have a relationship at home, like if you're your college professor white, it's very, very difficult and you better bring him out at some point. We're like Michael allowed like when he charted jet for families succumbed and visited. No, no, he didn't do that, but he did welcome families. He was into that. And you know, um, several of us, including me, brought our families out at different points. I mean, and you know Michael, you know, um, one of the singers, Dorian Holly brought his little nanna and she spent a lot of time on the row with us. And you know, uh Ricky brought his kids, uh and his wife, I brought mine out. Um. It was great in that way. Uh, well not in my case. Um and uh yeah, I mean I remember when we when we um, we were in Tokyo and uh he he arranged for us to all go to Disneyland. We shut down the park, baby, and it was us. And you haven't lived until you've been to Disneyland with the head Mickey. A matter of fact, I used to call him Mickey and he would answer to that too. But you know, he it was great and so yes, he loved you know, the families hanging and all that. But to answer the question, yeah, you needed to have You couldn't sustain a tour like that and never see your spouse at your family at any point. You had to have him join you if you FaceTime and all that stuff. But it's like going like it's a rap. It's like you're going, Yeah, you're going like you're doing it. You're in the military. It's like you're you're gone. I would have been Wait a minute, we did not even ask. But behind the mask, oh yeah, behind the mask. Yeah. So um, I was working on my second solo album while working on Yeah, while we were also doing um oh my god waiting, We're just all over the place. Remind me to remind you. Monald did right by youth oh for cancel it down? Never mind, No, no, what he he did basically, yeah, he did well. He did better than me than Michael did, that's for sure. Or did you do all night long? And no, no, no, no, no here, let me give you a level of find No, no, he actually did all night long by himself. But I did level find level find a way and love of conquer all and I thank you very much a crazy video and I I did get you know, credit and checks for that. Oh oh crap. I can't remember her name right now. I see her face and I can't remember her name. Yeah. I always thought that was his take on the Al Green song like that was lovel con girl. No, that's what it sounds sounds like that. Well I didn't because well, I tell you what, I wasn't well really, because I wasn't I wasn't thinking of that. That wasn't he. That's interesting because I wasn't thinking that at all. Okay, mar mar Marva, thank you, Princess Marvit King. Well well later, yeah, because I keep getting hurd Marvin Hicks confused, James round right, it's a lot of marvels. Nice he to join us. Steve Bear, it was you missed it. It was a good news. It wasn't bad. You'll hear that you're playing. Yeah, yeah, it's good. Um yeah, so uh so Lionel did do right right to err by me. Okay. Uh he worked on his on his first solo album, right, yeah, And that was where I first saw your name. Yeah, when I was like four, Yeah, that's crazy, and then left during the line of Richie portion and the first one, the first line of Richie you are you're on that question the intro to you are? What this? First of all, I'm not on that, but what what you said? It was like it was like, okay, if you don't come back, but you sound like that some kind of movie was like the guy goes no. I was like an S and L you know that. That was cool. Yeah, that was when we first started the show. Okay, thank you, but that was Oh yeah, I wrote that with very mysterious John McClain. Yes, so, oh my god. There's some more John McClean credits that, uh, I've seen and I didn't think that was him. He was a songwriter. First, Well we wait, I got oh, I got a story about me and John hit me? Well, John, who I love dearly? Let me just start out pressing. Let me just say that right now. I do love him dealing. I really do. He's the kind of guy that you will never get to love because he just doesn't a lot um but I love him. And we spent a lot of time together. Um in seventy nine, in the early eighties, we spent a lot of time together, and I had this dream, we had this dream of forming a band that would that would be called PM and never yeah, and never happened, no form here, but um we we hooked up somehow and and he was the first guy that sounded like Prince before Prince. That's how he played guitar. That John McLean man, Ye gotta farm this motherfucker. Well, if you do, you will win the ultimate prize. We're going for him. It's just we can't find him and you know what, I'm sorry to say, but you probably won't really. Yeah, he's that mysterious. You know what, you can google anybody on the planet. YEA, say, I can't. Even if he walked in right now, I would know. I've never seen what I imagine that he was like Stoney Jackson. No, okay, he's a black guy. Um damn. But don't you can't find him? Wow? Damn. So he Medina eyed his way into the industry as an executive the same way that Bennie Medina was musician. Yeah he's Bennie Medina. Lord. Yeah, but no, actually, actually John was a little more legitimate. But anyway, we need a feed for you, um, or maybe I'll just come up with my own. Just do a couple of spots for you. But anyway, don't write a check. Get but you might be surprised. Um. Anyway, So, yes, you all had a group called PM. No, we had a dream, We had the idea of a group, but it never came to fruition. What projects what? Okay? But you know what we did work on together a TV series. Oh the name of the producer escapes me right now, but the show is called The Righteous Apples. Oh my god, the Rgeers. Yeah, they did a cover of let It Go, but uh, let the Love out of y'all. Huh. It was a Page's joint originally Richard Page the Joint, and then they did a cover of it the Righteous Apples. It was like they were like a high school yes from But I'm trying to think of the name of the creator and the writer and I can't for the life of me right now. Black guy were he wore ring glasses. He was with the PBS thing, and we we wrote and produced songs for that show, like Rollarello. Yeah. As a matter of fact, I'm looking at the MDB page right, Yeah, and we'll just continue. That's what is there another song called feels like the First Time? It doesn't listen just this one, okay, but yeah, but yeah, we we did that and that was the Yeah, yes he was, but John doesn't look like stony and Ernest Thomas. Wow, isn't that crazy? Ernest one thought I was Common's bodyguard. That's that broke my heart? Man, Why that's funny? Top Thank you Martin, Yeah, thank you. Wow. Yes, that was my introduction the topper. That was the first thing that you scored or like for television. I think it was the only thing. Okay, so Michael Henderson was on the Sorry really he was on an episode? Yeah he was. I guess was just remember just as a member of the band as like I wouldn't call well, I guess you can call it a drama store, I guess Michael Henderson. And what year when the show was on cocaine? Mike Henderson sh can you please break it down? Have you ever heard of Michael Henderson's rant? Drunken rant in Japan? No? Oh, my god, the best best. I'm not breaking it down for nobody. I'm not backing it up. Mom game. Curtis Mayfield, they're trying to they're trying to kill like he's just drunk and he's playing in front of it feels like he's performing for artist and fourteen and you can hear people like because he's responding to be Oh, you're gonna leave baby, Oh that's okay, that's all right, people walking out, And it's just like regular. It has to be wasting any time. It has to be eighty four. And like Norman, I think Norman Connors is drumming, but he takes it's a seven minute build up to sing going Places, and when he very specials like I didn't, I was like, damn. It's like he gets into the verse, who you realize it's going places? Nothing. That's what he say. His son, His son lives in Billy and keeps taking it off of YouTube because I can't I can't find it. Right, I got it. I got three that ain't going nowhere. Have you ever seen the version where they made a video to it? Stones throw stones throw there like a animated ad. It's the best thing on earth. Take me on, motherfucking yours right, motherfucking He goes into the next song. So this sounds better than Ray Charles's. It sounds better than Buddy Riches. It sounds better than that one passed, those pass those three they're hurting people out. But this is just like her? Which one is the Ray? Where is he cuting people by that? Someone interrupts. There's a scuffle between him and and the drummer. At the time, I think was not Bernard, but I al thought it was fat Head. Fathead was sexy fact it was the sex player. But but it was a scuffle between him and the drummer. And the drummer walked off and that's all right. No, I know's all right? It went it was okay, there's he's doing busted. I never I have a version of him doing busted. And then someone gets on the stage. It's like you were dog. You were dog and raised his like, bless your heart, bless your heart. You were none but a dirty dog. She know a guy basically like Ray must have did something wrong to a woman, either slept with his wife himself. You ain't nothing but a dog. Bless your heart because someone because someone, please get this gentleman off the stage. League, but do you were dog? And then they take him off and then like you hear him walking like a cross cuts out back and then all right lit like like nothing happened, but yes it stops up there. But no Michael, so listen, uh what I know you have a billion of these? What three songs did you say no to that you could have been on? Like did you only stay in the winter circle? Michael lionel Stee. The only example I have of that is a song that I was originally asked to uh over that bon piano, and I was very full of myself and I oh, I went into the session, but I mean, I was feeling myself musically and I thought like whatever I played would be great, and it wasn't because they just wanted something. They just wanted the changes in the in the rhythm that that that it was in, and I was I was overplaying. I overplayed and over I overplayed my way out of the session. And I regret that because I really love this song and it's one of my favorites from George Benson. This turn your Love all Round? How do you? They just wanted you to play the piano line, they just wanted, but I was playing. I was playing dune Man maund bank Bound. I was just overplaying, you know, and I to ask you to just play simple. I guess they just said, well, it's not okay, thanks, and then the next thing, I know, somebody else was honest, but so yeah, but I remember being asked to play on it, but I just I didn't. I didn't play it right, you know, And I could have. And I even at that point, I was definitely more trained because of all the other years of the doing sessions, and I just should have known better. But I overplayed. Were you formally trained how to play me? We didn't talk about that were you formally like you know, how to read or just I know I started playing by your at well, my mom says the legend as it too. Um, I started playing by her around two. But then I started taking lessons in around six, and so I did have formal training. Um. And and my I had three teachers and the third one was the most influential and the most effective. And he was the pianist with the Detroit Symphony Orchestra. And his name was Misha Cutler and he was a badass. He didn't take any mess. And and you know, I needed discipline because I was running over my last teacher because I thought I was hot, snot knew everything. And he I left his his house crying many times because he just he was this Russian, you know, like Polish, and he was, you know, very strict and took no mess, you know. But it's the discipline I needed. Did Luca third produced around He Actually I think he might have been one of the producers. Um, I think I'm not sure, but but it wasn't Quincy though, right. No, okay, okay, okay, okay, um, what what have you played one that we might not know? Like j Grayden did turn your liver room. Thank you? Yeah, so weird? Yeah? What have I played on it? This is a hard question for you because you know everything. I mean, like, you know, did you stuff for you know? You? On the heat is one by Glenn fry Or. I can't tell you why I wish, I wish. Let's really be playing a yeah yeah, no, I can't even think of anything they did for a float or is Disgug's lying to me right now? I did a floatry, I don't know. I didn't. They can give you credit? Really. Oh okay, wait a minute. Oh I'm so glad this came to me. It's gonna kill me. I gotta go back to Triumph. Explain you said this to me once and I didn't know. Okay, so help me out here, guys, Dela light works, Okay on your ways on Triumph. I was going to ask about that actually oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you said, was that the exact what's going on? Like the I don't know about that, but I know that the instrument used was, um, I'm electron? Uh yeah, but the same one. Did you tell me that that was the same exact one that Marmy used on What's going on? Oh, I don't think so, I couldn't possibly know that, Okay, No, but I know someone told me. Someone said like that either Randy something like Marvin Hey or he had especially made well. Yeah, and Barry had do you know the story of Motown that Raymond Scott had built, had convinced Barry Gordy to purchase two of his his version of tontouh and this, and he ordered two of them, and then I think mid second one they just discontinued the production. He was like, no, never mind, what was this? Because I'm wondering if these instruments that you're talking about, if they were used in these uh incredible ways for songs like Reflections m because I I defy anybody to tell me what the hell that sound is in the opening, whatever that is, and then they then they use something else later on, like what you know in these random places in the song, which is brilliant, but I have no idea what it is here it is, okay, So yeah. Nineteen sixty nine, Barry Gordy tipped off about a man musical scientists engage the mysterious works, visited Scott at his Long Island lab to witness the electroni. Um, that's what he called it, electronow Yeah, and all of its inference possibilities. In Gorty hired Scott and seventy one to serve as director of Motown's Electronic Music and Research Department. Oh, position Scott held until Uh no Motown recordings using Scott's electronic inventions have been publicly identified. That is that. But yeah, he originally someone says uh that he originally started working on the electronium out of Barry's house. Uh. They set up a room over the garages and he worked there putting stuff together so Barry could get involved and see the progress, and at one point worked out of this studio. The unit unit never got finalized and Ray had a real problem letting go. Uh. It was always being developed and that was for by You know what, what do you think it probably sounded like crap, it's a waste of seven What do you think it probably just wasn't good? Yeah? Uh, do you have a weird of the world question, Steve Um? Yeah, I mean I didn't even put it together in my head that that that was you on that just you know, is your name on the cover of that forty five? Like no, not the cat, No, that's just the artist. But I did play piano in it. The artist is one of the artists. Then what happened there? No I wasn't No, it's not on the cover. No no, no, no, no, no, no everything. Hey, Greg, who was the artist? And maybe it's the same person, But who was the artist that that you really ran to the studio outside of, of course Stevie Jackson's linel that you ran to the studio to work with because you were so excited, And who was the artist that you ran on tour to be with? Nobody so excited anybody? Well, as far as touring, you know, there was the time when I toured with a Beatle, which one pa Nope, uh this this this this other guy that I was touring with. I was in his band, and uh we already had a said thing going. And then uh, that artist managed to convince George m to tour with us, and he he said, you can use my band, and so it was the Eric Clapton and George Harrison tour of Japan. And you haven't lived until you've toured with a Beatle. Jesus, it didn't suck. And we go to here's a crazy thing. We go to Tokyo and of course George was absolutely lovely. Uh you of a human being. Um. We go to Tokyo and we're all we're all terribly excited, and we were in the h hotel is called the Capital Tokyo Hotel. We're in Georgia's room. TV's on and they're playing footage. I mean they're they're announcing obviously the George is in town, but they're playing footage of when the Beatles pulled up to the exact same hotel we're staying in. So now I'm in a room, I'm in a suite with a Beatle watching footage of when his band pulled up to the same hotel we're in. Like, okay, just kind of take this in. And so we toured around. It was great. And then um and then another uh George story which I always love to tell. Um. It was the second time I went to visit him at his home and uh, he opened the door and he's he's in corn Rows, George, George Hampson. Yeah, okay, he opened it and I go, well, I didn't see this coming. George was like, what do you think? I said, first of all, who, how did you even get your hair in corn Rose the girl hiding? Okay, how did that work? But he was in corner. I wish I took a picture of him. But so we're hanging out and then he goes, do you want to hear the new song? Then I go, okay, we go up to the bedroom, plays the thing, and I got my private world premiere of Free as a Bird. And I'm sitting there and I'm absolutely transfixed and mesmerized. I can't believe that I'm, first of all, sitting in the bedroom of a Beatle listening to the last song all the Beatles did, damn. And I'm sitting there and chills are running up and down my spot. For first of all, I'm getting chills even talking about this right now. But I'm sitting there and I'm just trying to take all this and I'm going I went around with George Harrison the last Beetles. Oh my god, I can't believe this is happening right now. But Okay, on the heels of that question, you also you also emptied a lot of specials and awards shows. What was your what was one of your favorite experiences with that PS. I really enjoyed watching because you're always so in thank you. Well, what was your first one that you did, like your first Awards that you Oh my goodness, I don't know the first Awards show that I am deed, wow, I I don't know. I'd have to research that. I don't damn. So Ricky Miner wasn't born with that. He just okay, here you go, thank you. But no, uh no, I don't remember. But I tell you what the pretty much the best one was. It was based off of How I Got started, The Jackson Third the special did um no, he said, how you got started started? I was thinking of the Detroit Symphony thing. Uh, Stevie in the Key of Life. It was a Grammy tribute. I am dated. Yeah, so that's why that's the best one. So you're an Yeah. So the second best one is probably the Jackson's thirty Anniversary in the Garden, because I mean, this is the Jackson's thirty Anniversary in the Garden. That's I think they all right question, Yeah, since that night was so vivid and that day after it was so memorable. And by the way, this was based off of because we did two shows. I know I'm gonna ask you about that second show. How did you get out of New York City? Right, Well, it wasn't by plane. Um. First of all, nothing was happening the day at, the day of or the day after. You might want to tell everybody what that day was. It was September eleven, two one. And that was after the second show, which was September and the first show, which was the eight because it was a break in between, I think because of the circus. But the first show was September eight, the second show was September, and I remember after that show just you know, having more of a private celebration, you know, dinner with a buddy of mine at the time, and had like, you know, just kind of a celebratory dinner and everything was great. And then uh, my wife at the time, Um, the next morning, you know, we we we slept in late, um because you know, we had such a great night, so we slept in late. And I had this plan. I had two plans that I wanted to do. I wanted to go to Central Park and take my wife on a canoe ride. Um. And I also wanted to go to my favorite place, my favorite restaurant for lunch, which is a restaurant called Bill Bouquet, and so I called the restaurant after I woke up because I wanted to make reservations. I call it and yeah, what's going on? And go I said, I'd like to, you know, come to the to the spot today. And the person said, today is not a good day. He said why, I said, it's not a good days. People are crying. It's terrible, it's it's not a good day. I go, what are you talking about? The person went, have you seen the news? No, said you might wanted to and the TV on right now. That's how we found out UM. And then after the initial shock, which took a long time to get over, and we started smelling smoke and by the way I was staying, I was staying at the Plaza at Tonay Way, way uptown, and you could smell the smoke there. The producer of the show, UM, David Guest was very good to me though, because he let me stay at the Plaza Tonay until the end of the week or until I could get away out. And so what happened was we kept trying by flights and it was very, very very difficult free to paint. I remember was one of the lucky ones she got out on the plane. Uh. Came to find out. I came to find out later on that Michael Uh that car ride with Elizabeth, Yeah, he went that, he did that, But I didn't know the cross country today, Yeah, with Elizabeth Taylor, and I watched his name Marlon, I don't know, yeah, because I didn't. I didn't know that at the time, and I didn't know how the rest of the brothers made out. I didn't know how anybody else got out, but me and my wife at that time, we we couldn't get up plane out. So we just decided at the end of that week, that's Saturday, that we'd rent a car. So we drove over to Um, we got we went over to Jersey and got a Hurts wren A car and we drove cross country and it was part of like a mini mini cavalcade because Cheryl Lynn was with us. Yeah and strange. Yeah, she and her cousin or her manager. Actually, UM we drove. We didn't drive, we didn't drive all together, but we drove, like you know, in in in separate cars, and we drove cross country all the way back and we stopped in St. Louis where UM, her manager's Mom lived um, and I was saying Louis. I'm pretty sure was saying Louis. We stopped there and we made a couple of the stif some joke all the way. And that was the first and only time I ever drove a cross country and I never imagined it would be for that reason. Ship crazy huh, No traffic, no track, it was. It was eerily calm and still there's no traffic. And I remember hearing them play this particular song a lot during out cross country. Right, there was a song by Enya No d that is not the right change like that. For two weeks, no, they only played like imagine, there was a whole no no songs or the no playlist, which is why, which is why I O on the blueprint. Yeah, because yeah, man, can you do you remember you remember? Can you take us through where you were when you got the dudes about Mike. Yes, I was in Beverly Hills and I was I just dropped off a watch to get repaired. And my wife at that time called me and said, did you hear about Michael? My god, what are you talking about? I heard the news and I just I wasn't shock, you know, I I it was just you know, and yet I wasn't you know. And what I really remember ah after that is is going through the preparations with Brandy because Randy brought me in and he wanted me to help out um with the with the memorial. And then we we had a meeting at Kennerle's house, Randy, Ken and I and we started talking things, you know, talking things through and um you know, artists and so forth. And I remember thinking, well, it would be really nice if Steve saying I never dream you'd leave in summer, uh, which was deeply poetic because he did leave us in summer. Um. And I remember going to remember having private meetings, you know with Randy, and I remember going down to l A Live and it was the only time that I was in the l A Live executive building, you know where all the offices were, and I remember having we were we had this meeting with Randy and Ken and uh uh uh. Simon was Sien's first name. M Um who knows Sidman Um, He's Sideman, He's he's the he's the he basically runs He basically runs l A Live, Staples Center and Microsoft Center. Uh Lee Lee Siman Um and Uhlwick. He wasn't there at that time, I don't think, but there were other executives and we we you know, they were we were discussing everything, like, you know, how many tickets for family, how many tickets for VP's all this kind of stuff, everything, you know, And then I remember meeting at Staples with the brothers in a backstage room and it was me and the brothers, Kenner like Valdes Flag legendary stage manager, and maybe one other person and we were just all sitting there and at different points, you know, one of the brothers would cry. It was really really heavy. And I remember also UM taking the walk through the underground tunnel from Staples to what is not Microsoft Center because there's this underground tunnel that connects to two UM because they was built that way for you know, just as a cool thing for any artist and wanted to do double duty or whatever, easy access, you know, And so we walked this underground tunnel from Staples to UM. It was a different thing then, but whatever, but so we go there, and that was UM designed for the family to leave Staples to go to UM Microsoft Center. UH, for the overflow of people who couldn't get into Staples and it was designed for the so the family was gonna go. Uh the original idea was that the family was going to go and thank them. But they didn't do it. They didn't do it. We we we did a practice talk, but after it actually happened, they didn't do it. They just they didn't do it because it was it was like enough of it, you know, It's like you know, with everything that went on and and uh so, yeah, it was very heavy. And I remember, um, I remember having a very very private moment with Marlon uh at haven Hurst and him you know, we talked and you know, he cried on my shoulder. You know, um, very very difficult. But you know, but I also remember, you know at Staples when we were there going through things that Barry came over, um and we we we all took pictures together, Barry and the brothers and me and just all kinds of memories. You know, how can one how could one be creative in a time like that, because you know, you have to go arrangements and came all right, what key do you want to sing in? And you know, call up musicians and background sound check and you know what you just do, You just do man. I mean, you know, one thing Earli is really good at it is just forging through no matter what, because he's had to in all kinds he's had, He's been hit with all kinds of last mane of things like you know, uh, they were rehearsing the grades like the day of the Grammy, the Grammy thing where thank God, I I think I was I know I was there. I was there. So you talk about you talk about having a change on the flying and what what was it? What the back story was that the Chris Brown Rihanna thing just happened, and that was the year they decided to let artists double up on things. So timber Lake had like two or three songs and Chris Brown had two or three songs, and Rihanna had two or three songs, and it was gonna be like the first mash up thing of duets and multiple songs. But without Chris Brown Rihanna there there was like space for five songs. And I'd never two things happened that day, which is the most real ship I've ever seen in my life. One earlier in his whole crew. Literally now it's about let's say it in our fifteen minutes until they realized that Brown and Rihanna are no shelf. So they're just scouring up the boy can you sing Let's say together? Hal Green, They're just grabbing people from the audience like this, we need a four minute song. That. So that whole thing of like boys them and singing let's stay together with none of that. Ship was playing the superstitious thing with Stevie Wonder with the Jonah's brothers. None that. But wait, here's the other funny thing. So, uh, the the the cold Play controversy with Joe Satriani. Oh yeah, when they hit Jack then, so they've been running away from getting their summons from saty honest people for like two months. So he had a plan. He had a plan. He's like, yo, I'm gonna get the motherfucker's at the Grammys when I tell you you remember them old Keystone Caper things were like you watch the Yeah, like that's exactly what happened. So you had the people were running this way to serve the papers and then Coldplay running this way, and then it was like you could have put the flat of the bumblebee to the ship just just in the topic. Oh god, I don't know if I should no, just no, I said all my stuff. It's just the end of the night. Um. You know, like artists are like very thinking, like a cat like Oasis, you know, those guys like I don't care about the like amazing that sort of thing. But um, uh, Tom New York took losing to cold Play very very hard, and how hard a very emotional way. So just that was the most surreal. But to see yeah, literally between early just scrambling for people to sing ship and cold Play and Satriani's Uh, I had no idea that it was going. It was the funniest day of my life. It was funny. I'm glad somebody would had something to laugh about that day. Well it didn't. The thing was we didn't no, no, no, I know you didn't know what was happening, right, Yeah, it's sort of like being in the New York doing the blackout, right like in Detroit, I saw you. I knew you alreay in the black out, but I don't think y'all really knew because there was no TV to turn on to see could say, we couldn't write you could be already in a blackout. But it was just like, oh, we heard like Rihanna, it's not coming like. We didn't until I got home. Then we said, oh ship that happened? Yeah yeah, yeah that was the sort of the thing. Wow. So uh do we cover everything in your life? No, not even close the whole part two? Yeah? And ship you did you sport were signs I didn't score it. I did. Actually, I just did one thing, okay for a female artists who the girl who did Private Joy? Shane Shane Yeah, Prince Yeah. And I sang the demo produced by Jimmy Irvine. Wow. Oh that's right. Asked me to do Uh, somebody asked me to do that, you know, produced that thing for that girl. So I did. I did Private Joy. What did you in the Streets of Fire? Were you in the band? No? No, I was in another movie, darying movie, the only my only this is it my only movie? Day? But I didn't do this, is it? Yea? Because Michael right, you're right, you're right. Sorry, okay, I was young, said but you haven't lived until you've been directed by Steven Spielberg. Thank you? What movie you want to be? We got two? I was the extra in the Color Purple as well. I was six your baby, Yeah, six. I was on the I was wanting to get the scene where the scene where she's hanging up close. She's saying, no, you gotta fight, you gotta what Celi and are talking and so then like a kid comes and runs through the sheet and she's like, y'all get on away from her. I was, yeahs you got outstrets, but you're not gonna believe this. But also yeah, yeah, exactly, you were the kid. You were you were the kid. You were the one of the kids up the owner of the general story right, some girl. Yeah, but guess what. Guess what? That's not even my voice? Do a timeout that? Oh wait wait I couldn't but I did say it. Yeah, I did say it. But in the final I guess it wasn't loud enough, so they had they had somebody else go, well, don't go, but I did. That's me playing Wow that hysterical. So it's so love. If you want a really good laugh, whip that out one night. You'll crack up. Yeah, you'll laugh yourself stilling. Wait, Greg, But that's how I met Oprah what And that's how I met uh Danny, right, And that's how I met the cast of Wacky characters and yeah, wait, oh there's another thing that I did that I'm very proud of that you probably didn't know how I did thanks to Kenner. Like Oprah's final two shows, Thank you man. What were her final two shows? An extra organza with every star you've ever heard of in your entire life, in the entire galaxy that Digits ever interviewed. They came out to say goodbye. And so what musical moment? Who who was the last you? Indeed, whatever the musical moment was, I indeed the whole thing. So who was the last person to sing? I don't know who the last person was? But but um, probably my favorite segment was when we when we surprised it with Steve, because what happened was the setup was um uh Jamie mm hmm um, you know went to her and started, you know, talking on his smack and everything, and he he would he started, Isn't she lovely? Right? So he started it. So we did a slow version and that's me playing with him and everything, and then we we I do some um, some chord changes, you know, some different course to set up into the original key of Isn't She Lovely? For Steve to rise out of the floor on the panel that sitting up and she turns around because, um wait, I gotta ask, do you have you ever had as an empty uh a Murphy's law momentum for you? Everything can go wrong? Um? Has a sequencer ever not worked on? You know when jam is one at the intro? You know, did you miss if you can't feature baby que or that freeze or want to be starting something or oh I we probably did. We probably had some you mean doing the Bad tour. Well, yeah, I mean just in general and general not not yeah, probably, but not not anything that just stands out to break. Oh you won't believe this, so I'm sure they haven't. But they were mercifully far and few between. Okay, okay, well I'm sorry. I really do want to know what you played on we other world, Like what instruments? You just piano? Played piano? And right? Yeah, but well and to your point, yes, and he co wrote the song, but no, he he doesn't need to play it. He's one of the featured artists, so he doesn't need So they had they had other sense and stuff that. Yeah, so Quincy had a few of us. It was me David Page and I think and there was one other one I can't remember who. They're gonna kill you though, but but I played piano, Page played um, you know, STUALD piano, I thing or other instruments. And there was a third keyboardist as well. So there were a bunch of us no well just other sense, not strings. But yeah, so there were I'm pretty sure three keyboard players. And I did the piano. Thank you, thank you well brother Greg. You you gave us, You brought it, you brought the stories, you brought the dramas, brought the listening. Well you know what, but it takes someone as um nerdy and as knowledgeable as you are and your fine team. Let me just say right now, you guys are really wonderful. I don't know, Okay, I get function, that's all I know. I get it, and I have to pee right now. But I must say I had no idea that I would be here for over three hours, but like I have enjoyed every second of its felt like three minutes. And blessings to you all, and I just thank you for you, just for all your contributions, all your music, just for raising all of us. Thank you, thank you. On behalf of sugar Steve and I'm paid well he's not here on behalf of Sugar Steve and Boss Bill and Fantigolo and la uh yeah. I'd like to say thank you uh Greg again. This is of course Love, of Course, Love Supreme and we will see you on the Mexico Round only on Pandora Cours Love Supreme. It's a production of My Heart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. 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