Austin rocker and axman, Gary Clark Jr., brings blues-rock center stage in 2019 as he joins Team Supreme to talk about his journey from booking gigs at 14, to collaborating with The Rolling Stones and Eric Clapton and his new album, "This Land."
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Of Course Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. This is Sugar Steve and on this week's QLs Classic, Austin rocker and axe man Gary Clark Jr. Brings blues rock center stage in two thousand nineteen as he joins Team Supreme to talk about his journey from booking gigs at fourteen to collaborating with the Rolling Stones and Eric Clapton and his new album This Land, originally released March sixth two thousand nineteen. Sabremo row called Suprema Supremo row called Suprema Supremo row called Supreme Suprema road cars, loves my name, Yeah, that you can trust. Yeah. I love all my friends who don't throw me under the bus. Suprima su Primo roll call, su Prima su Frema road call. My name is Fante. Yeah. I don't want no drama. Yeah, I'm just here to talk about the night I met your mama. So Frema roll call, Suprema s Frema road call. My name is Sugar. Yeah, Sugar Steve for the wind. Yeah. Do you hear your train of coming? Yeah? When your train pulls in roll call sum Carma su primo, road car pay bill Yeah, not counting pasos. Ye should have divorced. Yeah, Jeff Beatho Frema, Yes, roll Callmaremo roll call it's like em Yeah, that's right. I'm floss in yeah because now I know. Yeah, a black man from Austin Romo Supremo, roll call, su Prima Sumo, roll call g c J. Yeah, from the a t X Yeah, with Quest and Crew. Yeah, and I don't know what's nice roll Fremo, roll call, Supremo, Supremo, roll call, so Prema, so Frema, roll call su prima so Fremo, roll call nice. Yeah, smooth with nice, smooth with man dropped it full Yeah, real nice, rushing but still not his badness. Yeah. Yeah he ranked up there. Did you know you did it effortless? Appreciate that, Okay, So I did h Hendricks bar Clark mash up in case. Yes, deep deep cuts. I get it, deep cuts. And we're in the house, of course. I'm gonna scoon sugar work. Yeah. This is the Sugar Network edition of course, loves to go ahead where we at see. No run your own show, bro, I'm just here for punch the bus man I'm still under the bush. You weren't talking about me, right, yeah, you don't even know what's going on about. Well, it's cool this sugar Steve and we're here at Electric Lady Studios. That's right, we are anything else like for somebody, let's move it, okay. Anyway, my roll call was the ship. It was it was it was like it was like you were great many let like an onion many levels. Um. Oh wait, we might as well just start now because I know I'm gonna play this about times now yeah right now, all right, right now, yeah, step Mothermica, y'all sounds so good. Oh man, are you Yeah, that's just get plugging on that ship. So now that was just me great when I walked into the room unpaid bill, yeah, um, when he's not teaching Grover to curse on Sesame Street and you gotta explain was that? I think y'all did that on purpose. I heard it both ways, though, like I heard what it supposed to be. It was what was the thing the red dress? Yeah, like whatever that was Willow Laura, Yeah, that Yanni verse is Laurel. What exactly was that? I don't I didn't see it, but I was told by my girlfriend who's the boss, that uh they watched it like a hundred times, and and everybody bought the fact that he didn't. He did not say what everybody thinks. He said, wait, wait, she's literally the boss. Yeah, yeah, my girlfriend, she is my boss. She's she's the boss, tough man. It used to be she wasn't the boss, and then like in the last year, she became the boss. And I'm not sure how I feel about that. I'm formulating the opinions speak love on the street. Yeah on the street. No, but you you were saying that you were about to have a get rebar mitzvah. Oh so for those take on the on the Instagram, he is constantly the host of various rap events, various various events. He's like the m C of mcas and I thought, since I'm gonna get bar miss it again that he could MC for the second time. Now it's like, and that's this like a recircumcision as well. Yeah, I feel like they're all the things I got reave it a lot of Okay, yeah, I may excuse myself from the circumcision part, I understand, but but you know, but up until that, up until the cutting. I'm there, I'm your guy. Tonight we're enjoying whiskey with each other and it's wonderful. I feel like we don't do this enough. We don't. I just want to see how far I can get without even introducing our guests. Was trying to segue into our guests because I brought in. Some said that he has an intro. But I'm just saying that. You know, we usually just wrap a little bit for like minutes. I get a man, you know how I do, especially when boss building here. Yeah, I know my feet, my nikes are up. Matter of fact, I'm gonna eat some grapes right now. All, yes, exactly. Usually I'm just cool. I'm just where's that voice coming from? There's somebody here. I love when Bill is now year so I can just violate all the rules. Oh and you brought the ear rings backing stop, don't get me. I love the ear rings and great at the job Bill, Yes he did. He he added a lot out. Okay, roll out this, roll out, red car. We have a black man from Austin, Texas. Time out. Austin is officially my second favorite place on early that I just like my requirements for city. Are you know, I don't have the same standards that other people do. Okay, Uh, if the record shopping is good, um, the food truck activity is good. Right there, there you go. That's all I need is legal. But you know, you just make certain compromises. It's about to be coming. It's coming. We hold out in Austin. We had a good time, you know. And I actually believe that perhaps the idea potus that might get the votes for the Democrats, or I believe that you think he is from I think he's the figure that will do it. Why are you speaking in code because you know then you guys want to get pinned down Jesus Christ exactly. I mean not yet, you know, I'm just saying right now as it's looking, there's a strong possibility that speak much more openly about anyway. My second is my second. He's from my second favorite city, uh in the US and the world. Um, he's been doing it to death. Yes deaf d e a f because his guitars allout uh since the agela put um no seriously. In the tradition of of of the great journeyman blues men uh such as James Marshall Hendricks, Buddy Guy, Muddy Waters, all the Kings, b B King, Albert King, Freddy King, Uh, you know Hallan Wolf, Champaign King. Yes, you're going to all the Kings, our guests. Gary Clark Jr. Has been making believers of the traditional rock and roll sound UH with his major debut UH and the EP Bright Light TP and the Black and Blue, which was released in two thousand twelve. Um. I have seen the man myself. I've played with him a few times. But you know, I can attest that the future of of just jaw dropping acts work is definitely good hands Lady and Joe, and please welcome to Quest Love Supreme, the one and only Gary Clark Jr. Motherfuck Hey, I appreciate that I might need that as my alarm. So tell us about Austin. No, you were you born in Austin, Texas? Yeah? Is in Austin, Texas? All right? Now? I have this romantic, you know, vision of the town and what not, like food trucks, food trucks and record What was it like pre gentrification? What was it like? Oh damn, damn. For those that don't know, Gary Clark gave a look, So tell me what what's the what's the deal with Austin? Like, what was growing up in Austin? Like? Um, for me, I grew up south side of Austin a little spot called oak Kill, little neighborhood. I guess you called somewhat of a suburb. I guess the south side of the suburb. No, I mean yeah, I guess you could say that. A bunch of houses with schools and parks and uh. But it wasn't directly right in the city, you know what I mean. Um, but you know, pretty pretty normal, somewhat diverse neighborhood close to you know, uh, fifty minutes away from downtown. But that was it was country, kind of a little bit, riding bike, sports on the woods, doing stuff like that. Basketball, nothing too wild. Yeah, fairly normal. Yeah, somewhat somewhat normal. I mean it's Texas, it's the South, so there's a little bit of that. It's you know, I was gonna say, the one, the one, the one physical trait that you have that's the opposite of all the great axmen of history is you're tak Yeah, I'm up here, man. You're very tall, like all the great acts been. I feel like, you know, are under five ten and they you know, I feel like maybe that's their entry into you know, this makes up for well I never heard I never thought about hype. But but short, I mean it's about I mean I've heard about having big hands where that can finish, finish it, finish, it be extremely health thank you you're supposed to be doing this hasn't an advantage, you know, I mean, um, probably for other instruments too, but having having large hands would make playing an instrument easier. I would know, this is all I got. I haven't been looking at your hands. I mean, you're but he's just a tall person, so his hands are probably tall. Good King Albert King six four, he is, he's a big yeah okay, I didn't yeah in the king's but yeah, man, growing up in Austin was none. What was your family situation into I grew up in the house with three sisters, mom and pops. Yeah boy right in the middle. O the only boy, the only boy. Okay, yeah, what did your what did your folks do with musicians as well? Not my pops. I love my pops, but yeah, he you know, he plays a little bit. I actually, uh, you know, when I started realizing what was happening, he had some guitars in the house. I ended up kind of breaking one. But my dad, my parents, um just kind of normal jobs. My dad sold anything. He sold everything from homes to cars too, men's suits too, ladies shoes to um uh, he did everything. He worked security for concerts and you know, he was just he was he was doing whatever he had to do to make sure that we had what we needed. My mother was an accountant. Um perfect hustle is working out like as of this a bit. Yeah, my mom, she's been helping me out for a long time. But yeah, and none of them are in music in the church or none of that stuff. Uh no, no, not really unique situation. Yeah, but I mean I got family members. I got uncles who are musical, um, musicians, you know, writers and m uh somebody used to play with Steve Ravan if you're familiar with Austin Texas and Texas Blue seeing W. C. Clark, Um, that's my cousin. Used to play bass with them, great guitar players Peee Craig and used to play with Johnny Otis Sugar Otis. So yeah, that's so it was in my in My family were not right at my house. You know what I mean. Also weird enough the house band for um they called them Blue Records. What's his name? Blow? Yeah, a lot of this stuff well yeah, like Johnny always was part of that. I didn't realize that until much later. So how did you get interested in music? Like what was the moment that the moment that made me. I saw Michael Jackson five the Victory Tour or this is Sheryl Crowe Michael Jackson. Yeah, so that's the first time you met. That was the first time I saw Yeah, but that was the first time I was crazy like little did you know? How like your connection with her? Then? Would you know? I can't come some years stop loving you? You know we have the nosebleed seats, you know what I mean, I see anything. But yeah, that was that was what got me into music. You know, the light showed the energy everything, you know. I got to kindergarten, I was like, where's the stage at? Really I just wanted to be in that. You know what is this? You know what is these vibes? So you you chose a path that it's rarely chosen, especially for like black musicians, especially in growing up in the age of when hip hop it's really developing and and you know, R and B at the time when you're coming of age like new jack swing and and hip hop are really fine their footing and but yet um like blues music and the way that you play. You know, one of the one of the reasons why I'm really excited that you hear is because I really don't know your story, but I haven't seen you befomed at least somewhere between ten to twelve times, like already had like your story painting out my head that you know you're living off of like pork and beans and sticking a bundles. But that's a compliment. That's nice. He's a nice like, yeah, I did it work, No, But you you you sing with so much conviction and a type of I don't know how to describe your voice, like it's it's not like a voice I've ever heard singing before, but I felt like, you know, like you've went through things and that sort of thing. I mean that that was kind of what the vibe I was lived in. I think he sings like he plays the guitar, Like the guitar and his voice are kind of a similar. Yeah, which started first for you did you start playing first or singing first? How did I started singing first? Yeah? I was. My sister started, uh coming home with trophies for singing competitions, and I had no trophies. So what's the age gap between you and your siblings? Um? So uh um three and a half years younger than my older sister. I got a sister younger than me two years, and then I got a baby baby sister who's younger about like ten years. Okay cool? Yeah, so the older one, she was the one that was singing. She could sing good, she could sing great. She's you know, um, you can play piano really well? Site read? Can you know do all that? All that kind of stuff, And I just I wanted some trophies. So I signed up for the choir sixth grade, along with basketball. Used to get hell all the time for showing up to basketball practice, like, what's up singing something? Man? That was quir practice. That's right. You can't be a music nerd and a school job man, so raw, um we get a ball. No. I was like a Dalmatian great Dane puppies, tall and awkward, tall, you know, got no handles, super tall for no reason, got no hops sad, just a waste. But your hands are so big, just dunk. I got a nice fifteen footer though, Okay, stop me, but that yeah, she told her that wrong footer not injured? Right, Yeah, thank you? What do you choose anyway? Work? Life? Where were we? Okay? So just from seeing your sister when these trophies, that was your inspiration. Yeah, that's why I thought I was gonna you know, you're talking about being the time of hip hop and R and being. I thought I was gonna be a singer in an R and B group. I had a group with this guy Robbie called Young Soul and we had dance mallows and choreography and it sounds like an j it was. It was terrible, but we loved it. You know, who were you all kind of modeling yourself after the group who wanted to be boys to man as yet all? Yeah, all for one MR groups. That was my joint. And I had that guitar in it too, and I was like, I was like, this goes together. I could do both. I could be That was mystic, not me playing the guitar. He played guitar. He was acoustic. He was like the knockoff baby face. But I mean, but the I mean, but I thought on baby face like everybody else, baby face start. Remember he said that he was right now, he was on No, he was on the face. He was on rabbit hole, Gary in my back. Wait so wait, so that was literally the video is literally the moment when you start to think about picking up the guitar too. That video you just referenced, Oh no, no, no no. Tito Jackson watching old video takes Jackson maybe want to play your Yeah wait, you said you broke your dad's Uh, similar to Tito Jackson. There was no repercussions though, right, Uh not like that. Okay, okay, so uh that's singing. But when you were so what you were twelve when you first started playing guitar or yeah, so what was your first What was the first ax that you got? I got an iban As r X twenty was like a black electric guitar um too humbucker pickups a little maple neck and I got a little tin wat um guitar amp from Walmart or something and plugged in and everyone starts with the the department store. It was like a rock axe or something in the name of it. A little tin Waite and all your stuff. Like you learned to play, you pretty much start yourself, like you know, lessons or anything like that. No, No, not really started listening to the radio. Um, my dad when I first got my guitar, my dad said, if you want to play guitar for really, you gotta listen to Eric Clapton in Santana. So you dropped off some records in my room and said, um, good luck with that and do that do your homework to but with that? Really? So, what were the first uh records that you remember buying? Well, not not for guitar education purposes, but just in your life. What was your first album do you remember purchasing. My first album that I remember purchasing was Immature Wow? Which right now, dude? Which was which one? Was it? Which the one with Feel the Phone? Feel the fun were here? Did that come out? Five? I want to say they sampled us. That was the first time we got sampled. Sample one of them, one of them, join one of them joints from solent treatment. Yea a matter of fact, they did too, because the drums were sound treatment. But they took the rosel. No, they did. I had that album somehow. I don't know if it was the intention and you remember it, so it must have been good. Okay, okay, so this is Gary Club. Do you remember guy? Do you remember when Immature came back as I am X. Yeah? What a different member of something? No, it was the same three niggas, but it was it was like, yeah, because they had that jam and they did a cover that actually did a cover of love Me in a special way on that album that was straight up Yeah, but I had that album, I had that out. Yeah, you're my favorite R and B fan of all time. Yeah, for real, your RMB knowledge puts me to shame. If Marky's Houston knew that Gary Clark Jr. Like was it? That's just I just don't think he would know that. He probably would be off the wall. Yeah, yeah, that was That was the first record I bought. Wow, that's crazy dunking all the men. I don't want to say, like Phoebe Hig Robert Johnson, He's like, no, I don't know. At what point, at what point do you consider the the genesis of where you are right now in your career? Like, at what point are you who's putting you onto uh Electric Lady Land, Who's putting you onto the first like the Cream albums or Zeppelin or any of those things. So assuming that, assuming that, I mean, I'm assuming that you look at Jimmy Vonka, right. That was yeah, well that all happened. Uh. Um I lived down the street from a girl named Eve Monsey. Um. I met her in third grade. White girl came from Houston, Jewish girl. She came out and was like she came, I told you so she was playing guitar like a year before me and and her. Her dad worked on video games and he would put video games in a in all these different venues around town. And so when he was working on him, he had him in the garage and they had a basketball goal. So all the kids from the neighborhood would go over there and play arcade games, you know, and you start hooping or whatever. And then uh, you've had a band and it was like, um three piece band, her and a couple of other girlfriends and they would be playing this rock and roll stuff. And you know, she had a black stratocaster and a Fender twid Hunter white am you know, read knobs on it. And I thought it was the coolest thing ever, you know, So I'm playing basketball and I'm hearing this. So I ended up getting interested in, like, uh, what she was doing. It was just like the coolest thing in the neighborhood. So I just I just became interested in that. You I've been listening to my boys two men and working on my dance steps and writing my you know, my R and B hits, and then I was like, you know, let me see what's happening over here. So that's seeing her having guitar and thinking about Tito Jackson how much I love that, and you know, uh, it's the first time in which you know someone's making the Jackson reference. He really deserves it because people don't begging them up as much as they should. Yeah, So it was all that kind of all that kind of went together. And I remember that they had that, um the Jackson movie, The American dream Man. Listen that is a classic watching every four yeahs Busty TV exactly, So they had they had a soundtrack for that, and at one point they had a live version of them doing Who's Who's Who's loving You? But but they did um uh Isaac Hayes walking by and so Tito's playing at Jermaine is also, let it be noted, Jermaine is killing that baseline. So that's weird. That affected me as a as a sampler. That was a well known public enemy sample. So that's how I got, you know, into that. But you just hearing it first generation without even the references. That's crazy that you picked up on that. Yeah, I was like, man, this is this all goes together. I'm gonna start hanging out down the street and you figured out how to play this guitar. Man. Wow. Baby Face was also in the audience that night. He mentioned that on our show, I'm gonna do a lot of references to pass. Yeah, I'm own reference center. By the way, two shorts parents were accountants as well. I'm just I'm going with the thing. Yeah. Well, I know, I know that you weren't built over night. So how many hours do you recom that it took you to really really master I mean, because I mean the right word Rolling Stones declaring you as Operation Next and the future and yes you you definitely have the chapter that ship. Like I was again jaw dropped, like how what was your practice technique? Like, uh, my practice technique was I quit going to school, you know what, I just quit I would show up the first period and someone would be like, hey man, let's go play guitar. I got some herb and we just dip, you know, and we were just you know, I was introduced to Grateful Dead and and you know, people had Muddy Waters records and it was it was just I would just go do that instead of doing my school works. Austin started changing, okay, so all day. You know, when I got to be about fourteen, I played My first gig was a sophomore in high school. I guess, and I mean, you know what it is like. You start getting gigs and then it becomes get one gig, two gigs three four nights a week, five nights, and that's one nights a week, four hours. That's where the domino started. That's that's from fourteen on. From fourteen on, that was it. And your parents was cool. They like, okay, they were okay with it. They were okay with it until I started getting phone calls from the school where I was. Because Spoteen is the beginning of high school. So it's like, yeah, I was there, and then I just ghosted or did you like? I ended up finished. I had to do Saturday. I had to do after school. I had to go before I had to do all that stuff. I had it and completing my junior year of high school because I lost it. I was They used to call me hot wire. I used to take my parents car, sneak out in the middle of night, go down to the clubs. This is what we want to know. Wait a minute, you were hot your parents They called me how ward. I just used to have a key and put it down the street. It's better nickname than keys. Yeah, yeah, right, happen once, you know, shame or me doing it twice though the belt. Now this happened multiple times. This is three or four times a week, and get out and go to the club. You would get away with it. I would get I would sneak out of the window. How about the window, and I would wait till my pops would be sitting He'll be watching Star Trek or something, and he would start to fall out. Is it because they were too busy looking at the girls. I don't know what he but like your sisters, I meant that in that way. Sorry, your sisters like pay let me see when I say electric Blue his real name or something like that, just correctly, how did you get past them? But I was just focusing on what it was on the girls, your sisters. Yeah, I was. I was up, I was playing guitar. You were good at it. I was good. I was on. I was on my school. Yeah I was. But you know I popped in one time. Where did you go? I would go to Spockleed Joe Generic Ball, I'll go to Anton's, I'll go to my friend's houses and we would you know, they would have house parties and bands will be playing, there'd be DJs and so you know, I might not have been able to go, but I made myself able to go. I would they normally have given you permission to play these parties or was it like okay, no, no, based on this is the wrong crowd, or based on like are they seeing you and knowing that, oh, he's going to be our future. No, I'm not saying that every sun has to you know, M do that for his parents. But no, not at all. It was it was a distraction. You know, I started, you know, I'm sneaking out, I'm leaving the house. I'm smoking weed, all of him. I'm still in the car. They don't they can't find me in your best life. Yeah exactly. You know what I mean, I'm getting calls from the school. I'm not present, I'm you know, all this type of stuff and h So now they weren't really with it at all, you know, but um my mom made a compromise with me. She was like, look, I can't take this away from me because I know how much you love it. But what you can do is if you can sneak you out and go run around and play for all those drunks down in six year, you can play for Jesus. So you can go playing the church, the church us. But did they let you ask grinding the church? Or are you just doing straight up gospel? But who know? I mean the thing is that I would also think that Austin, Texas was rather open minded too different experiences. I mean, I want to I want well, I mean I was torn in Austin by nine four, so he's about ten years old. So yeah, in church. Yeah, I'm just saying that by this point, like I would think that they would have been open to it. I once went to a free jazz church. What that like? Imagine like the last the last, the last era of like Coltrane's life for it and Jesus. Yeah. Okay, wow, Yeah, there's a go Go church in d C. Chuck Yeah, yeah, I'll pray due to Chuck Brown. Those rain you know about to go go? I know a little bit, okay, Texas, but I can't. We know what's up down man, it's traveled the world you know about at all? Actually slight slight uh detour in this conversation since we're talking about Austin. All right, you gotta you gotta put me down with what are your alright? Now, give me your top five Barbie keep joint. Does the name Sam's Beef mean anything to you? Oh? Okay, okay, I'm relieved. Sam's Beef is like Austin's version of Freddy's from House of Cards. Okay, okay, got it like a shack. It's not a chain. That's not a chain. Na. It's just like even as even as even as uh slogan, you don't need no teeth to eat my beef. You don't need teeth. Yeah, but it's like a backport, no need teeth. You know, flies come on and I don't even mind. You know, it's just so bad. But I didn't know that was super authentic or not you know, I was. I would like to think that it was like the authentic little that's the question authentic. Where does Austin come in the barbecue scheme of things when it comes to city, So it's Austin like the data Man Louis. I think in America. St. Louis is the barbecue rib you know, is hard. It's different Kansas City though I don't well, Kansas City got smoked for St. Louis. I don't know city barbecue coming from something from North Carolina barbecue more so it's like like pool Port. So like when people and around that way when they say like barbecue, they specifically mean puled Port, so like and I'm in the east side of Carolina. So for our joint base is a vinegar base. So then when you go to the west side, like where the mountains is that they use like a tomato base. And we don't funk with them because we'd be like, we're making We're making Slappy Joe's barbecue, so fuck them. But the vinegar base is good. So like, what's the what's the awesome? Give me your top five? Um Man Sam's Okay, I used to go to Sam's all the time. There's a spot called the Barbecue that are like, um uh, Terry Blacks is another one. Um, if you're going for like some fancy barbecue, it's a spot called Lambert's. I got a lot of love for them because they fed me every Thursday. Okay, me a couple of drinks. Uh was that four? Um? Let me see, let me see me see because it's been is any good? Because how the Stubbs rate? Because I like Stubbs as a music venue because I went so much and I had it out the same make the barbecue sauce, yeahcues. But I get the feeling that you know, Stubbs in Republic and all those spots are like what for Philly cheese steaks? Like yeah, like one spot that makes it two hours. I was a long story ahead, like two hours in line for Republic Barbecue. I thought, Man, there has to be an underground spot that gym steaks because it's a line. But it's a bullshit. Don't go to Philly and eat a gym. But you know, you know you've seen the rats all. If you want to, you need the quest love text message. It's like four pages long. It rates all the cheese steakery in all the Philadelphia from like like Kobe Beefery to like get old whatever. You might get robbed at this place. Yeah, but you can only go to this place at this time because if now you might die, Like it's like that guy and if you're white, definitely don't go to this place like it says. This is like anybody tells you exactly what to order, order it, you should. That should be your next book. I gotta give you, you know, I gotta keep people safe for you. I'm being feeling a Minute'm gonna hit you up. Yeah, like gold ish people. But don't get this ship because you are you are a rock star, skinny, so I don't even think you you would thrown down, but you might have a fast it's got big hands, yea. At this point, are you are you said you were fourteen? Are you even making demos or recording the like what's your songwriting process? Like are you even writing songs at this point? Or you're just playing? Like what's the music of the day? What is the music of the day if you are playing at if you're playing in a blues band in Austin, Texas, like, what are the what are the go to songs that I should know the blues everything. He's just one five. You gotta have you gotta have a for me. It's like you gotta have a a slow a slow blues, major blue, the slow minor blues. You gotta have you red house. Yeah, red houses is something, but are like something like BB King three o'clock blues. Okay? Um, how would where would like something like? Um like pride and enjoyed by Stevie Baun? Where would that fall? Pride and joy? It's kind of a it's kind of a unspoken rule that if you're in Austin because you don't touch it, can I can you? Can you? Are you able to school us on Stevie at least mean personally, I don't I need to know more about Stevie Reborn. I know that he's a god, but I don't know why he's a god or anything like. Are you able to explain what makes him god or the ship? I've never heard him be described as god. But I think the thing that that people love about Stevie Ray Vaughan is is, um, there's this there's this kind of Americana thing about him. Uh, there's this fierce blues thing about him that you know, he gives props up to Albert King in all the grace and then he's got this rock and roll fierce uh thing about him. And if you're if you're coming from Texas and you play guitar, man for somebody to make it out of Austin, Texas and guitar, it was kind of a big deal. And just tone. I think the thing that makes him the guy is the tones that he got and out of a stratocaster. You know, I don't think anybody had heard that powerful. That's strong of a tone coming from from a guitar like that. I think it's been it's just tone. I don't know, man, I have no no, no, you're doing good. You're doing good. That's that's enough. Yeah, that's the answer, because I mean we me and my son. You try to play pride enjoy it on guitar, ye roll. We used to suck it up on that. I was like, this supposed to be pretty hard to play. It's not easy. Ship. Also he was white, obviously, Yeah, I guess we should say that that's what men get to. Okay, So when I watch when I watch cats like bb King and I mean, I'm gonna take Hendricks out the equation, we could take Hendricks out, and we could probably take um in Chicago. Yeah I'm not not John, so alright, taking those two out. But as far as blue blues guitar playing and it coming from it leaving the the Mississippi Delta, and like who is credited or who is the definitive electric blues guitar player, and and how can you tell who's the real deal and who's not the real deal? Like if I if I were watching BB King all right, for example, when he does it blues, he'll stick to one note, so he'll play the notes, see, but he'll play various ways various like you know, textures to it. But you know, I know that a lesser expert would be more impressed with speed or you know, noise and really not So how can you determine who is a righteous blues man versus he? All right? And I'm not trying to make you uh, because he's kind of both of them. But there's like the shredder blues man and then the slow hand blues man, and I think like there's a difference, right, So what's more important? Like no one as me as a drummer like you know I'm not a gospel drummer, but people respect my slowness in my my pocket. That speaks enough. But you can chop with you on not with the bones but no. But I'm just saying that, you know, is there for you? Is it more important for slow hand blues or is it like about shredding and and volume and and fullness. I think it's it goes down to does it make the hair stand up on your arms? Does it give you chills? Does it make you feel like you want to cry? Does it make you feel like you want to scream at the top of your long does it make you feel something? Um, I think you can do both. I think you can play. You can shred and and do all that, and I think you could play to the slow hand bb king thing. But when you hit it note and you feel it and and you undenially your eyes roll back in the back of your head, if if, if something makes me do that, I'm like, that's just what is That's what music is supposed to do. I don't care if you're a guitar player, don't care, a drummer, don't care you uh uh, whatever genre you know, If you sing a note and it's like whoa just so just so for context, like what is um, So, give us an example of somebody that would be considered us looks at a slow hand blues player versus like a shredder, like with a lot of decks theory, um, a slow hand blues player. I would have to say somebody like Derek Trucks. It's somebody who plays, you know, kind of slide guitar and somebody that I think is ofthening when it comes down to doing it, do what it's supposed to do. On the other on the other hand, when it comes down to shredd, and I think Eric Gales can do that, you know, I think that he could shred and you know people freak out, you know what I mean, and actually really feel it and not are just impressed by that super fast bro. Who's an unsung hero in your in your mind? Like, who's the guitarist that you know is a maverick but you know hasn't either gotten a deal just wanted to stay local or just kind of behind the scenes, Like is there a guitarist that you know that's just like yeah, I would have to go back to Eric Gails. He did we did a show together and he opened up for us at Austin. I was like, this is a bad idea. Is he Is he still alive or is he? Yeah? It was like two weeks ago. You know, it's weird. I'll say that anytime I've even done shows with Eric Gail's on on the bill, it's weird because I feel like he has to pay his bills, like doing the side man stuff. Like I think, uh, wait, which is we're talking about Eric Gal like old jazz cat Eric Eric Gails. Um, no, he's he's from Memphis. Okay, now there's an Eric Kale. That's I think I'm thinking about your area. We're talking about a lefty young guy who's not who you're thinking about. No, no, no, I'm thinking about. Yes, he's a shredder. Sometimes when um uh limon Color Bassis burning No sugar Hill Bassis. Also Doug do Sometimes if Doug Wimbush is on a gig, he'll hire Eric Gails as his guitar. So back when Doug was the m D for Lauren Hill. Like again, like I never really got seen him him in his true context maybe like once or twice, But normally when I see Eric Gails, he's either like backing up a rap group or doing something totally It's like he gotta paid his bills and really can't. I can't get loose with it. But I mean he seems happy, so you know what I mean. I mean he came through and crust. Like I was telling everyone, I was like, this is a terrible idea. So when the opener crushes the headliner, no one needs that ship. Do you feel do you feel this unspoken pressure to live up to the myth of of obviously the J word, because I'm certain for a lot of people, what is it you never happened, won't ever happen, You're not gonna You're not gonna live up to you're gonna happen. You're a badass motherfucker. Guys saying Jimmy, Jimmy, Yeah, I like you came even me. My fault was I thought, oh, guitar black guy, all right, let me see he rises up to the level of Jimmy. And but the thing was, it was like the way the way that you did, I just caught you on a fucking excellent night because even my guitar player his mouth was open, like when you did a gig. Okay, So this is right. When Doyle and show Crow were like, you gotta see this guy before, so you weren't signed just yet. It was like a small bar. It was like a small out of the way bar in the village that you just happened to be at. Um. I think it was Falent time, so maybe it was like two thousand um, but this is just you and a trio. But it was I, you know, and I know him the king of you know, hyperbole and oh my god, is the next thing. But even Rolling Stone, who was with me that night, when they reviewed that show, then they were like, you know, this guy's next and to prove it, I mean, they gave him the lead review. When I saw that, Um, the the EP got the lead review and Rolling Stone, I was like, damn not since when I was ten years old. I mean I've been reading Rolling Stone like all my life, and I know the power of like the lead review. And when Prince an unknown Prince got the leave review for a Dirty Mind four and a half, like, I was like, wow, this this rock magazine which has no connections to like this isn't I want to be your lover that you know? This is like an unspoken, unproven uh, musician. They gave him the lead review, so this must be some ship. They gave you the same treatment. So I'm like, do you feel is there an unspoken pressure? Now? I must like Eric Clapton told me that I was the best you know, modern blues guitarists that he's ever seen, and you know, for a lot of us that aren't really you know, in the vocabulary of rock music or blues, Like, is there do you feel like a pressure to live up to that? Or um? I don't feel any pressure. I don't feel any pressure to live up to that necessarily, but I think about it when it's brought up. You know, how many times do you journalists ask you like these types of questions like yeah, but I think the thing for me is is I've always kind of not said much about it, but to not sound um cocky or not to not to sound like I know, I know that I got into this thing not to be in last place nice. So yeah, I put that on myself, and regardless of other people, say, you know, I want to I want to be I wanna be you know, I want to get a chance to jaim with you, you know, talking about like some real ship. I want to be with the motherfucker's with this ship, and I'm not gonna be okay with just being like I didn't get into this, Okay, that's why I wanted. I was like, okay, you definitely play like that. Then you know some people are like, you know, man, shucks, thanks anyway, but you know, just the way that you played. Uh. And again, it's like the way that blues rock has been defined and redefined, I mean to the point now like where we just basically thought like, okay, if you all guitar guides from now or are just going to be white dudes, and if a black one comes along, then you know it's like, oh maybe maybe not, but you know, you were definitely the real I think there was pressure also in Lenny to live that when that come into But the thing is like his Lenny's Lenny's acts work was never to that level, but because he looked the part. You know, I'm sure a lot of people expected that, you know, when really it's Craig that's the axment of it. But you know it's I missed that on Lenny Kravis episode. Yeah. And and plus you know, especially with black people, I feel like a lot of our associations with rock. Like one of the one of the main reasons why I wanted to do the See with Cody was because it was a rock song that wasn't a rock song, because half the time it's like, you know, the rappers to be thinking about smells like teen Spirit, like some head Bang or or like iron Man, like that's our rocking spirit. And there it's it's such a it's such a vast you know, vocabulary to it that a lot a lot of the world doesn't know because a lot of us just aren't in on the playing field anymore. Do you feel do you see the rock tune? Is that what your the Cody stuff? Yeah? I wouldn't, but why not? I don't know. I mean he literally named it rock and roll. I mean, I mean what okay for me? For me, it was I didn't want to, you know, if we were gonna go there, Like when Quincy Jones try to get beat It out of Michael Jackson, he literally said, I want you to do your version of my Sharona, and Michael was like, okay, I'll be back in three days and then came back with beat It, which is you you know, and and and anything that Mike has done after that, you know, like the dirty Diana like slashes everywhere to me, like I, you know, I liked I like black. My favorite Rolling Stones album is probably their worst review joint, which is Black and Blue. You know. It's just like there's a certain rock that I like that's not that doesn't have twelve exclamation points behind it. So beast Burden, that's some girls. Yeah, the Black and Blue albums like that, that was there. Okay, we're gonna try and get funky a little bit, but it didn't work that way. But I like sloppy stuff, so you know, I've never gotten to the stalls they catalog like that. I know he is, but it don't make us feel bad. Just teach us. You know. Sometimes you just you don't you don't know. So yes, anyway, now I gotta go back to I gotta go back to what when did you first start songwriting? What was your like the first recording? Um, my first recording was a song that I recorded with but my friend Evens called bar Soul Blues and uh, it was just kind of a shuffle blue shuffle and it was me her my cousin Ryan, and um, I can't remember my sister playing drums or not, but she pays. Yeah, my little sister plays dry. We got she got a drunk kit um the same year that I got a guitar. My cousin Worm got the base the same year, and so we all had the family band, and my sister I played keys and and did all that too. So my pops would try and put us together to perform for the family. And we used to call him Joe, and yeah, it was like the whole thing was Joseph. Are any of your sister still involved in music? Uh, they're involved in music, but not trying to go get it like I was, you know. Um. But yeah, So I'll recorded on a remember those little karaoke thing like a too, yes, like like a little single Loodian things. So I used to record that way. So we might we put one mic in the room, like hanging off the you know, the garage hanging down the middle of the room, and so we would record and and uh, since you couldn't sing it the mic, I would go back and flip it, you know, put another tape in and put on the B side or whatever, play the thing and then singing the vocal over it and go do some overdubs and keep flipping tapes. It sounded like ship But that was how we recorded stuff. You know, how did your how did words spread around Austin? And it's Austin the only place that you can really have reached. Are there surrounding cities in Texas that you can also have a good musical fan base. Yeah, I mean it's Austin, just the only blue city. No, it's a little question. Uh that was good. Now you can go to San Antonio, the San Marcus is a couple of places to play. I went down to the Valley and played um down there. Up to Dallas for worth. Uh what about Houston or yeah, you're to go down to Houston. The blues community is pretty small down there. So if you if there's another blues guy, another blues band on the scene that say, hey man, you need to book this guy down in Texas, and there's like a whole blues society and so everyone hooks each other up. And so yeah, I would run down to Houston and Dallas with my parents. And now, besides those cities that are named the Captain obvious ones, All right, what is the rest of the Texas environment, Like the city was I don't really mess with it. Even to this day hasn't established a cigarette. I mean, you gotta get from point A to point B. But there's some places you just don't stop. Ye. I mean, for the largest state in the United States, I would like to know if there's more than seven cities or that are welcoming or look, man, anytime I'm going out west. Anytime I'm going out west, um Ah, I get stopped Sweetwater, I gets stopped going out Well, every time I get stopped and pulled out a car, that's a whole situation. Every time. Really, it's like that. And she heading out east towards Louisiana. You don't stop. You just keep it moving, get past the bridge. Even to this day, when you get in the car, the whole goal is just just make sure you got enough gas to get past, and you just keep it moving right up. Niggas needs a new green book. You write about it. It's real. Not when we even too were like like going through Texas like we had to. We stayed one night in got bent Wood. I want to say it was I can't remember name, but basically it was like a hotel and a Walmart and McDonald's and like we didn't. What else you need? That's party racial. We stayed. We just stayed in and like I called my hunger. I was like, so we in this town. She's like, oh my god, she's no straight up. She's like, oh no, don't work around out there. I was like, damn, but it's still real. Still from somebody from Carolina that's a big deal. Yeah, yeah, it's still real. Okay, Texas. They literally Yo, you mentioned your friend Eve. This is the same Eve who had the band in the beginning, right, So do you guys still make music together or what is up with her? Because you mentioned her twice in music references? Um, yeah, we're still We're still cool. Um, actually we stopped. I got fired from her band, Like he did something. Now what you do know? I didn't. I didn't do anything. They just, you know, respectfully. They Yeah, they decided that my services will no longer needed. I'm going to ask you because this is what I don't know about you, because at one point, at one point, the guy that was hosting the party kind of looked at me like, okay, let's wrap it up. What is no because again I can listen to you do fourteen minutes solo. How many courses? So we're doing the blues? How long am I supposed to run through the format before I do that role where I let you know, Okay, Gary, it's time to get to the last verse of the weekend. You know what, A few years ago, you would have had to stop me, You would have had to go do that role, and I would have snapped out of it and gone, all right, let's get back into the first. Um. A lot of times what happens when I do that is I don't know what the next verse is. Okay, so I'm just buying time, Aline. I don't remember the worst of my own ship. But the thing is, like, I feel like you're you're not microwave. You're such a slow cook that I'm willing to give you six rounds and unspoken six rounds of stuff to let you get into it. So I never know when you've made your statement when it's time to like in the song, right right, Yeah, I don't know either. I always feel like you keep going. I feel like I could keep There's more, there's more, there's more, there's more. I could keep going till I pass out. But um, I've become more refined due to uh fines and police showing up. I've become more refined. Is it the same drum que did you give everybody? Or is that just there's a certain language that I have that the Roots instantly know when it's time to wrap something up or that sort of thing. But that's only us playing together for decades. Um. There's also the Roots television film, right, which is like Crank Crank. I felt like I felt like he gave me one of those that the grammar because because the thing was the thing was is that? Yes, shout out to Keith McFee the most the most erotic. Yeah, his his stopwatchers have stopwatchers, Keith big Fees, the guy that right now he's planning like the Grammy jam in two thousand and twenty three years from now. That's that's what Keith is. So you know he in his mind, he's like, okay, he did a seconds. You know, we we still got uh you know, we got chucked you on the side of the stage. You ready run the jewels anybody, And I'm trying to let you know that like fine wine takes it like just orgasm. Yeah, that's what we called it, right, But pretty much Keith's one of those guys that like lose his mind after like a three minute so so I have to you know, I kind of got that. I was like, all right, what's the longest solo you ever dig? I think I got clocked that somewhere around twelve fourteen minutes. It's Maggot Brain. Yeah, Maggot Bright rock and roll. I think Funky delic is rocked. Yeah. Of course absolutely should have put that in earlier, but yeah, absolutely. How did you go about in terms of, like, after you're playing all these bands and like kind of doing demos and stuff, how did you go about getting your first deal? Oh? I was, I was. I was doing some shows with Dog Brandhall. We've been doing some stuff. He gave me some work. I was kind of how do you hook up with Doyle for the list? Really? I mean, truth be told, Doyle bram Hall was or could have been. I could be stepping over my boundaries. He was. He could have been the Gary Clark Jr. Of the early nineties. He was a guy that, like again Eric Clapton gave the gave the the endorsement of life, the co sign of time for Yeah, for Doyle um back and like uh said, this guy's amazing. Blues guitarists can do everything and sing and all those things. This guy is the next thing. Doyle and the Roots actually signed the geff and at the same time. And Doyle, Um, if you're familiar with there's a film call Before the Music Dies that you should watch. Um. Doyle is a big part of that. The guy that made that movie. The guy that made that movie. Um really did it because of Doyle's situation. Doyle was supposed to be the second coming of of blues guitar ology and it just didn't work out. Um. He did draft after draft with with records, and you know, he eventually got dropped by his label and then he had to play pay the bill. So I think mainly as a session guy, I never knew his like the mythology of he should have been a guy like basically it's like reverse Jimi Hendrix is like if he started out as Jimi Hendrix and just ended up playing with Little Richard that sort of thing. So um, but you know he married Susannah Melboyne h princess, right, So that's how we got to know him. In the very short lived Edith Funker project with Erica and Susannah and Wendy and Lisa and everybody. And it was during that time, that Edi Funker period that I was asking Doyle like, whoa who do you know that's like next? And that's when he first told me that, you know, his kid from Austin, Garret Clark Jr. So when uh, I think Sheryl Crow and Doyle they were torn together, told me like, you gotta come and see this guy play. And it was that I think Brooklyn Bowl was the first time I seen you, uh play. I don't know, was that your own set or was that with Doyle or you know what? I don't remember as long ago. Yeah, I don't remember honestly. So you were playing with Doyle? And then how did that go lead to a label situation for you? Uh? Uh? I was you weren't an Archangels? Were you in that band? I'm not making a joke. Was he know you? Oh? No, I was like I was maybe nine, Okay, No, I wasn't. I wasn't it, but you know you know about that band of course. Yeah, Charlie Sexton, Tommy Shannon. Yeah, um so I was doing this struggling, starving artist thing and I'm sitting there in a house full of candles and not by choice porking beans in the spoon. Ye okay, So so just so happens Like a little bit later, Dug gets me a calling and he says, Uh, this isn't promise, but you know, I've been talking to Clapton and I think he wants you to come out to do this Crossroads festival. And if you're not familiar, it's a big guitar thorn, lot of guitar solos, a lot of the greats um come out and they do this big festival thing and people jam at the end or whatever. And um, being a guitar player, I watched them, you know the DVD s. I knew what was up, and so I was like really and um. So next thing I know, I get a letter in the mail. Cool, You're invited to come to Claps and Crossroads. I get on the plane. I got like twenty dollars in my pocket. I show up there and like what year is This is two and ten and so I show up to rehearsal next time do the show? Um and uh. In the middle of the show, this whole sound goes out in Toyota Park. The front of the out sound. I'm in the middle of my thing. I'm the new guy. Nobody knows who the hell I am, and I'm seeing people booing down ship and screaming. I'm just seeing this, and Doyle goes, hey, man, the sounds out, just keep doing anything. When they come around and do this, uh, you know, you can come back into your verse. We're trying to work this thing out. And so I'm just freaking out. I'm just playing. No one's hearing me. I keep seeing this. I'm like, damn, I came all the way here to Chicago and sucked it up. And so it just so happens at the end of my solo, where you know, I started wrapping it up, all the sound comes back on. Everybody freaks out and it becomes this huge moment. It becomes like one of the most exciting moments of the whole thing. It's not because I didn't anythink epic. So anyway, I got um hanging out backstage and I'm like, man, that's that was terrible. Blah blah blah um Tom Wally Andy Oliphant, who used to work at Warner at the time, approached me and gave me their business cards and said, uh, we're thinking about doing something with you. And I did that whole thing and ran around in different spots. He ended up wrong with them and he's not. The whole thing is different. But um, yeah, so that that was that was it just being backstage thinking that was terrible, and they're like, what do you think about rocking with Warner? What was that like? Like? Were you apprehensive about signing the deal or what? Yeah, of course I was a lot of visual. Did you get to talk to Clapton at all? No. I walked up to him and I was really excited and I said, hey, man, thank you for inviting me. You know, you have no idea and he just go thanks for coming, walked off and his little boat shoes and shorts and yeah. So when you first started recording, um, your first record, what was it like going from I guess just kind of you know, just kind of just the shoes string, you know, budget ship to actually now what we were able to do differently in terms of the sound. Yeah, Um, I thought I was, but I was working with people who I won't necessarily name, and I didn't like it, but these were producers or yeah, I didn't. I didn't were the ep or for Black and Blue. For both, I was like, real talk, no, no, no, it turned out to be all right. But I just I was in a place where I felt like I was free and creative and I wanted to express everything and have all my my all my ideas fully realized. And there was this kind of like, yeah, let's get to it. Let's do it like this way, let's get to it, you know, and I would present ideas and that's boring. I'm like, well, only played for thirty seconds, man, let me let me get to the change. Yeah, And so I didn't like feeling like I couldn't move in my own pace, you know, being from Texas. If we get twenty seconds on the crosswalk, I'm taking all of them. So that was like, that was that was my mentality. But as I get older, you know, I understand and I had to learn, you know, I had to learn, but I was uncomfortable at first. I didn't like it. I didn't like anybody tell me what to do because I started playing music because I was the only place where nobody could tell me what to do. So I was like, well, what the hell am I doing? Yeah? Business, but you know, it's all good little maturity and you know, taking a step back and understand that it's not just about you. That was a real reality check, you know. So it was sunny Uh, Sunny Slind the album which you felt that you had your control in your your true voice over. Yeah, I think so. Well. I just wanted to try. I wanted to be able to have I want to be able to make an album where I'm like this, I'm fully responsible whether it works or not. I know what my strengths and my weaknesses are, and I've never been able to test him, and I want to do that. Like I said, I didn't get into this to be last place, and I didn't get into this to only give a quarter of what I think that I can give. So that was where that came from. How did yeah, because that's you If I'm not saying that's you're playing the guitar on the Fire We Make? Uh? How did that come about? Delicia Keys and Drake Record? How did that? Uh? That was Miguel I mean not Miguel Maxwell Maxwell. He hooked that he hooked all up boy Fire We Make was at Lea Maxwell, My bad. I thought wastle Man. I meant I said I mean to say said that was the unbreakable. I don't know, I didn't I miss that. I remember being there. Yeah, how did that session come about? Um? At least your keys asked me to do um uh an event with her No child alive wait, no child, black child left behind black black but the name of her black child. Yeah yeah, and then the black that's the party, but keep it child alive is organizations organization. Key. We was all right except for you, Steve right. So we did a version of while my guitar Gentley weaves and and so we kind of linked up that way. It was pretty cool. And she asked me to be a part of this this uh our record call me up and went up to the studio here in New York. And uh do people do when when guests tell you to do their recordscause you're you're on Donald uh Gambinos album me and your mom admit, so I just laughing at something. But I'm just saying that high Bill, how are you doing, Billy? No? But is it when guests asked you to appear on their albums? Are they are they just like do you and do what you do and that's it? Or do they have like very specific, uh instructions and and and are you fold at all that specific instructions or do you just take the ones that go do you? Well, I've done most sessions that I've done has been just kind of like do you. But I worked with Cody and Gambino and they're both like it goes like this, you know, and it's like I kind of put my no, I don't do it goes like this, OK, yeah, I don't do that. So the solo that you played on the on the Your Mama joint, like that, that's them kind of directing or is it how much as you versus the solo part? The solo part was was all mean because you can't you can't tell me how to do that part. Damn right, Um, that's gotta be just from the heart. Yeah. But but as far as like chord changes and things like that and a little transition chords, it was like not that one, this one, yep, that no perfect you know. Yeah, So but it was cool. It's like I respect that. It's like and I know what I want, I know what you're capable of. Let's do that. I was watching your the like I guess the new ep K or the the promo video that you got for the new record This Land, and it was one of the clip where you were playing your solo and you were so lo on like in the control room, and that's how I cut all my vocals, So I thought it was interesting. Is that how you always kind of play like just right there in the moment, like you know, like right in front of the console. Yeah, not not, It depends. Sometimes I will, but sometimes I like to be in the room with the band. But for that one, I just turned then amp Caesar D one for twelve Cabinet Marshall and just turn that up and just ran for the God. Just still want to be in there, you know, And I wanted to hear how it translates. I like to hear. I was going to translate on the speakers, you know. Yeah, for the most part with your vocal. It was one in the same clip you were um, you were cutting your vocal, you were playing, you were singing, and you were singing. It look like you were singing through a fifty eight through it. It's just like a regular joint. Is that what you cut most of your vocals on or do you do like the fancy I guess Mike so or whatever. I've done all of it. I don't really have a preference. Just is it on? Check, let's go? Is it on? Okay? Yeah, I didn't know if you had a preference for just more that kind of raw like live sounded like a you know, a smaller Mike. Now, I don't know the difference. What what do you use? What my personal good one? Yeah? My personal Mike is uh, it's a manly references. Yeah it is. I've told you for seventy five years and never talked about the man about the man so manly. I mean, they're mainly known for like the outboard year, but they make Mike. And so when I was rebuilding my studio in my crib, I bought a Norman uh the U eighty seven, which is like the classic Mike or whatever, and so I got it and I was just like, yo, man, this ship sounds cold. This is cold at funk. I don't like this. And so my homie my deal at home, and he was like, well, yo, he said. The Normans are generally very cold out the box, he said, but over time, as they age, that's when they get kind of warm. I was like, I'm trying to go, I'm trying to come. Yeah, I ain't time for that you need. So he was like, yo, but the one you need is the manly reverence. I was like whatever, So he let me shoot out. I'd had like a whole like Lockership have eighty seven U sixty seven. Yeah, I shout it out against you eighty seven U sixty seven. I had a ribbon Mike like an r C A like old Elvis Mikey. I had that one. I had um the Road, which was like my for like years. I shout it out against like six seven mics. It kicked all the asses for like I mean, and it was for it was like a thousand dollars cheaper than the U eighty seven. It might have to get me a manly truth. Man got what I got. I got like a little smifty eight too, like I'll cut vocals through that, which is like a shoe or just one of those. And I mean that in the clip that I saw, like from your album, it looked like you were singing in one of those, and I used that one too. I don't even remember Michael in the mirror. Yeah, I'm I'm one of those people that I've been under Shore's uh uh what do you call it up in endorsing? Sure, for like decades now, but you know that's over now. Yeah wait we don't. Yeah wow, when did we end that relationship? Can I ask a question? Sure, Gary Clarke Jr. You seem to be like the Roots, this weird anomaly of well yeah, but like but like fans or people playing like black music, but it appeals to white audiences and it's a rarity. Like you you play Bonnaroo and you play these festivals for white jam kids. That's doesn't happen that often in the same way the Ruth the fucking Roots played to my college. We've talked about this and my college spring fling when I was graduating. I loved it. Let's just go with that. Uh but but I don't know what do you attribute that to? Because you're I mean, I find I think I have an answer, but I was wondering what your answer was. I mean, other than it's all great music, which I'm sure is an easy answer, but like, do you ever think about that? I do, Uh, well, I'm thinking about it, certain understandable. Oh yeah, I don't know. Just good music is good music. I mean, like it is what it is Uh, well, can I ask you, I'm gonna add one to it? Is it harder for you now? I know that you're going in different we should mention also that this land I forgot that my interest it is out right now? Um? Is it harder for you to keep the flame alive? Uh? And which kind of the the environment of the musical environment of the youth is the kind of the exact opposite of it? Whereas you know, traditional rock was the front and center rebel music that was the middle finger to society, where now it's almost Uh, it's kind of like a rarity where you can find quality, really good trade sh a rock music? Is that hard? And I know you're going in different directions with this album as well, But is it is it hard defining or or standing by your your your queen your acts in two thousand and nineteen? It's it hard? Nah? I don't know. I wouldn't know what to do without it. H Yeah, I wish you could see. Hey, let me know when you want to do the R and B immature album I'm working on. I'm working on it right now. Man, Listen, I'm on in on that. Yeah, he'll bring his manly reference and everything Bill the remix to you. I don't know if this is the remix, but were you kind of asking like, do you do you ever feel some type of way when you look in the crowd is not as many black people as you as maybe one would like to see? Is that like the question that I was asking questions? But I just that that always interests me, is why the routes? Because the issue with that, But maybe Gary it does. It's different for every artist. Well, I'm sorry. Black Thought was known as having not an issue, but at times he's been known as we grew up and we grew up in the hype Williams video era, which was like the real record business. Yeah, and I think if you grow up with that and those images and whatnot, and you know what you're seeing on the road, you know when groupies of chasing me, it's like five five dudes in my hotel when we wanting to know, like what kind of microphone does D'Angelo use? Like what he was breaking down. I've had that conversation many a time in the hotel like reference. But I've also seen earlier on in the roots career, I've seen the response when you've had like a black grounds, like, yeah, we had a black crounds. My point was, I've seen I've seen Gary played a number of times, and he will freak out white hippie kids in the same way he freaks out African America. It's like, and that's a rarity. I'm compliment, you know what I'm saying, Like, I, I don't you don't you see that enough? In the same way the roots complained to all my audience and it doesn't matter, and that I love and I feel like the ability to do that is transcendent. And I don't understand and I don't understand it. And that's my that's my question. Is an endangered species? Do you feel some sort of way about it? But the answer simple. Black people gave up on rock music after Living Color Network Steve, you did it, let's go, here's your thing, say something. And then they told us Lenny didn't count. Lenny is Jewish. That's what let me grab his way? You know that Living Color? And who else do we have? Well? Nothing after me? We had Prince. I mean really Prince was, but did he the guitar doesn't mean yeah he was? He saw it. He was Black people. The Isley Brothers definitely, so we keep it in the spirit of like by seventy six. By seventy six, Funking Delic basically became because was a Parliament song. Yeah, I mean, you know, and Garry started himself will say that, you know, I felt that after when making One Nation under the Groove and suddenly we just sold out and became Parliament. So I'm just saying that it doesn't seem like based on the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and everything else that it defends. It depends on who you're asking what rock and roll is, because I mean there's a whole very derivative situation. And then I don't know, it's to me the funk lineage is like outside of rock, like Princess Funk and pop, you know, but more than rock. But he's he's rock. I never grew printing in rock, which is probably the reason why Rolling Stone had left him off the one greatest guitar players. Like but in the rock and Roll Hall of that right there, Yeah, whoa, yeah, unfair, yes, like they Rolling Stone literally forgot to list Prince in one of the in and thus when Prince did the my guitar gently weeps guitar solo at the Hall of Fame. That was his revenge, Like that was his like motherfucker's Like, you know what. But I think with him though, I mean, this is just I think with him, with artists like that that are just so big and just so known for so many hit records, it's hard to imagine what gets overlooked as just the musicianship. So even like with Michael Jackson, like Michael would say, like he would talk about Prince, he would say, well, people look at Prince as an artists, as an artist, but they just look at me, dude. But Mike used to saying, it's goddamn face off, you know what I mean. Sometimes I forget that Mike is an excellent right because you just see the white Sox and the dances and ship that you forget that this is some real fucking musicianship going on. I feel as the Prince really took the space that the Isley Brothers had in the seventies. I can wrap you on that. And it's so natural for Ernie Einsley to do a solo in the seventh You know that you just you never said it. This is not rock and roll, this is you know, it's that sort of thing. Somehow somewhere it became harder, not harder, for black dudes to be called and roll. It's we can say you should jump over. I mean, we are all older all the time, gart don't are not. I think at the kids table in my own damn house, I still do, Garret. So I have a somewhat relevant question, I think. So he was asking about his hands again, So, um, is it is it a blessing or a curse to be grouped as a certain genre, specifically blues or blues rock. Let's say in your case, um, is that is that something that you hold up as a as a sign of pride or is that something that's that's pigeonholing? You know, I feel I feel a couple of ways of about that. When I was a kid, all I wanted to do was be a blues man. My first when I first got a guitar, I saw Stevie Uh, Steve ray Van tribute was Eric Clapton, Buddy Gott, B B. King, Robert Craig, Bonnie right, Um, a few others, and I said, I want to be a part of that thing. And so in two thousand and ten, when I got to be on stage with all them at the same time, I was like, it feels great to be a part of this, but it's also that all the things. Was like, well, I got I love being a part of this thing, but I love other stuff too, and I'd like to do all of that. Um So I just I just do what I do and try not to think about it. And I'm thirty four years old, man, I got other stuff, thank you, And you're going going in different directions, Like do you now feel as though, I mean the way that that the times you're defined now is just to be fluid, like nondefined and the new records if yeah, Yeah, I think that that I've always wanted to kind of do that. I mean, Quincy Jones is idolt to me. He's been trying to get rid of the genres and all that for a long time. And and uh, when I heard Wu Tank spitting over Albert Kingwicks, I was like, I can do whatever I want. Yeah. I was gonna ask you about that because you talked about in your in the promo for the new record, you talk about like your hip hop influences, like what was this what was some of the hip hop stuff you listen to um. I mean when I was I guess nine, ten, eleven, twelve, I wasn't allowed to listen to hip hop, but my body Graham would make me tapes put different titles on it, and why did Yeah, so I was listening to like DMX Snoop um one, g uh Bone, Dougs in harmony, Um bonus in harmony, never sang in harmony always he's right, Yeah, totally correct. I never thought about that harmony totally right, totally right. I never thought about that. Did you have you have You'll? I saw I was just reading something where you did something with Bunby, but have your Texas like the MCS kind of embraced you in that way. Yeah, because I'm thinking about I'm thinking about Scarface. I don't want to say Austin, So I'm thinking guitars. I forgot about his guitar. I saw him doing I went to go see him and um in d C. And I didn't know he played guitar. So he came up with a guitar. What will let him play whatever he wants to? Yeah? So um but yeah, so yeah, yes, switch your house, you know. So I spent a lot of time listening to that Um, but I love the production stuff, you know, the production side of it, you know, from like Swiss and Dre and you know the whole you know. I mean, I'm sitting here with what you got, but I gotta give it up to the roots for production and musicality and that, you know what I mean? Like that that made it to me is like this all goes together, you know what I mean? And I can. I want to be a part of that too. I want to do that too. I love being a blues man, but like this ship is tight, you know what I mean? Like I want to get into this too and figure it all out. So I want to put the MPC underneath everything and put the guitars and the live instrumentation on top of it, and and use all the colors, you know what I mean. Do you like jash? Yeah? I love jazz. I listened to a good amount of it. Um, never try to touch it really though, So what is what is your go to listening? So what's on my playlist? Sir? I guess yeah? Yeah, um John Battist's latest one, Yeah lm A. Have been listening to boot Up. Yeah, don't do all of her because the second Trip and sound like booed up the song the whole Trip and Sam and I've been listening to Sammy Davis Jr. I've one right, there's another Sammy David Jr. There's a younger person that named himself Sammy David Jr. So I'm just trying to make sure I wasn't confused. You're talking about the Candyman the Canyon. That would be okay, but is it because for the junior thing? Like the connection anyway? But I was. I came across a performance of him um doing uh Mr bo Jangles yeah and uh and my son really loved it and so he started singing it around the house and I was like, well, let's just get in the same Davis Junior together. So that's been our musical. That is the Beauty Discover. Yeah, that's what's happened. We need to movies to get into those episodes on the The Couxtables. I can't even say the show. No more on the Huxtables, Okay, on The Cosby Show, because Sammy David Junior had some really great cameos, but I doubt you will find that anywhere. Yeah, Tap, he was really good in the movie. Tap Tap was hard Ship with Gregory hynd tapping yea song that the title song. It was JT and Regina Bill and it was not make it like it was, but it was sorry. Yeah, yeah, saw that the best. See Gary, this is when this is this, We're falling out is back. I'm with it, Okay, Gary Clark has Jamison, He's fine, as I understand. I gotta wrap this up. Go to bed. Yeah, who's not going to I'm gonna go to bed. Yeah, I do. Steve got to go to bed. Sounds like a movie in the early early morning. Yeah. Anyway, Bill and Steve. Anyway, my second bar Mitzvah hosted Bookends. What is uh? You're You're? What are you playing on the rest of your year being in two thousand nineteen, the rest of two thousand nineteens tour forever. That's a good thing. I'm trying to work like you man. That's yes, that's a good thing. That's an awesome thing. Yeah, it's a blessing. How do you balance it out with you with your boys and you you know what, what the kids A boy girl, boy girl? Okay, I'll just get it. Hopefully you can just bring them out with me, bring with you. That's I'm trying to get to that, you know. Just it's a family. So yeah, we'll just be out there everywhere. It's cool. Well, we thank you for coming on the show. So yes, man, I'm so happy to learn that your R and B do like like R and B arm like greasy R and B like the arm By record. I want in on it, like, let's do like some divince frante, Gary Clark, I might have to get it. You gotta stand in there, but make sure you caught the land first. Yeah that was Davidson that hit me with the beautiful Yeah this land anyway on behalf of Unpaid Bill and Uh Sugar Steve of the Sugar Steve Network, Jazz Guitars and Boss Bill is getting angry Bill. We love you man. Sorry, look with your bath he look with your bathroom. You don't be in the nidoon renovations finished, Matt finished, Gary, We thank you for coming on the Sex. We see you all the next round. Of course, Love of Supreme, see y'all later. Course Love Supreme. It's a production of I Heart Radio. This classic episode was produced by the team at Mandora. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the I heart radio app, Apple podcast, or where ever you listen to your favorite shows.