This week's episode of Questlove Supreme closes out Women's History Month with a living legend. Monie Love was one of the first MC's from overseas to achieve worldwide success. In that process she's released music that continues to recycle itself in different forms with every generation, worked with some of the industry's greatest, co-wrote one of Hip Hop's most impactful anthems and evolved into a successful radio host. Listen, as she gives Quest and Team Supreme insight into a journey that features the framework and blueprint for what Hip Hop would evolve to be.
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Quest Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio. Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another episode of Course Love Supreme. I'm your host Quest Love. We have Team Supreme with us. Um, let's see we have Sugar Steve Hi. Everybody. We're right now. You're you're live on location. Where you at, Steve? Yeah, I'm outside of Radio Music Hall, recording live for alright. Nice, nice, our fans, our fan bases out there. That's awesome. A girl on the street. Yeah, we'd on the street, Yeah, exactly. Steve knows times it is. That's where spans are on the street out there. So, um, we have I'm Pete Bill, Yes, sir. How's it going on? How's the how's the wine bar? Are you? What are you drinking tonight? Little ship? Paint's call it pain. It's it's for the pain. It's pro paid, it's pro it's the This is your favorite part of the day, when you when you get down to you. Yeah, I get to see my friends have a drinking and uh, you know, talk about the ship. I see all right. Fontacolo you you cool? Yeah, yeah, man, I can't say it now. Yeah, just to say North n C. North or whatever. I'm chilling, man, I need some other. I might need some other. I mean, yes, I believe you know your state very well, but I need some mother wooden because I heard anybody, any nigga saying that ship is over fifty okay, like ain't no, ain't no young niggas saying that ship. We don't say that. The come on bro like nah nah bro Philadelphia equivalent. I'm there, like Philadelphia, some ship yeah yeah yeah, but then it became killed duffing, uh two thousand six, so we ended that. Uh yeah, I'll look at you. Yeah, I'm more Margaret. I forgot. I forgot Margaret in the house. Yeah, we did, um, ladies and gentlemen. I will say that our steam guest today is definitely hip hop Royalty. And I'm not making that reference because she's UK based. She came first to our attention as a member of what I think is one of the most innovative collectives in music, not just hip hop but music. And I'm speaking, of course, of the native tongues. She's one of the first generation international mcsh. She's made her mark given memorable verses on singles. Uh for a vass array of people. Be it Whitney Houston, Finding Cannibals, Prince, the Jungle Brothers, Day, Last Soul Rass cast common at least we forget or not forget her classic performance on the Anthem Ladies First with Queen Latifa, and also at the top of the New millennium, she shifted her golden voice to radio, especially in my hometown of Philly. Remind me to ask you about that jeezy conversation. But I've never spoken about that. I've heard a lot about it. I'm you know, I'm Philadelphia and I gotta I always wanted to ask you that. Um. Also Atlanta Georgie's as well as well as her Nation Ye show on Sirius FM Ladies First. Probably the biggest marvel here about our guest is her refusal and her inability to age as a mother of four. I assume four fully grown kids and a grandmother. I swear to God our guests will remain about twenty eight years old until the year nine teen thousand four. Um, what can I say? Long time coming, ladies and gentlemen, Please welcome, money, love to quest love Supreme. Yes, all right, Look, I'm as as a man, I'm learning lessons. Uh post um not to comment on people's physicality or their age or whatever, but this, this has to be spoken about. What is your secret to youth? I don't have a secret to youth. I mean, I don't know why everybody keeps everybody always says that, because trust me, my knees have got more correct than harm in the age. But what lotion you at night? What is it? I said? You know, honestly, Um, I drink and I drink a lot of water, that's for sure. I really do. I really do. And it sounds really corny, but I really do. You drink a lot of water. And Um, Aside from that, I'm still keeping up with the kids, Like I've still got kids that I'm chasing around the house and so on and so forth. You know, how old is your youngest? Okay? I see? Yeah. I mean there's sometimes where like I can't tell the difference between you and Charlena, and you know I can't, Like, you know, half the time I think that either your your daughter must have taken your iPhone and posted a pick on I G or whatever. But yeah, more and more and more power to you. I want whatever you're drinking, you have it. I want to live forever. So yes, the water right now as you speak, what is the environment in Atlanta? Because to the rest of the United States, we're just we're kind of side eye and not the residents, but you more or less. And no, well not even what's your name, Keisha? Not even Keisha, because I know where she stands. But right now I'm just hearing like everything that Atlanta is sodom and go more like, honestly, no, honestly, I can understand why everybody else is looking at Atlanta like that, because to to a lot in a lot of areas like things should be closed that are not closed. So I understand what everybody else is looking at it, like, yeah, what are you guys doing out there? Honestly, me speaking for myself, I'm going with the train of thought as we're not supposed to be doing a bunch of a bunch of stuff. You know. I do a to be I leave that, I leave the house, I go to the radio station. I do the radio station at the show. I come home. I might stop at the grocery store pick up groceries for the kids or what have you. That's about it, you know, I just I don't really do too much. I need to do my kids, you know, everybody's home schools, which is I share my laptop, I share my desktop, which is why nothing in my house is sacred anymore. But they do, they are They're doing too much. They're doing too much in general. Is there a kind of like, is there a true awareness of at least for you know, I'm a notice for everybody, but even for black people like that, there's a danger out there. I understand that, you know, at least some of the hotep cats that I know that are Are you allowed to say that hotel? Yeah? Yeah, that's that starts that starts like fights. I mean, you know, if the shoe fits. I'm just saying, like the mother, we just we just live in the time and which you know, I mean, we're facts are optional and everyone's everyone's opinion is sort of subjective to what they think, you know. And I mean, it's bad enough with my family, like me trying to convince certain family members that they should get the vaccine. And you know, I understand the history that we've had within in trepidation and all that stuff, but I'm it's just exhausted enough arguing nine family members about this. I mean, I can't even imagine what it's just like in Atlanta where I mean I've seen clips of All Star Weekend where people were just like, I'm crazy. So you haven't had to host any parties or anything like that down there. Well I did, Uh no, I did, Actually I did, you know I did. I went to Tampa and I did the super It's a driving concept and that was me and alumni. It was me special Ed hubb Rock qual Me Indana Day and we did that and that was a drive and that was my first driving concert. So that was Yeah, that was interesting. Dude. People will respond by a hunk in their horns absolutely, so when dan It starts doing nightmares like people like, dude, it was amazing. That was my first experience with that, and it was absolutely that. Like when you say makes some thos, it's like, you wait, next time you wrapped the chub, tell him that I'm going to pay his two thousand dollar depth to Prince Paul. Just stop. If Paul tells the story one more time, man, I'm like, all right, I'm gonna just cover this dept. So that no, okay, So of course I know some areas of your life, but um, for our listeners don't know what part of were you brewing in the UK, what part of the UK? Absolutely, South London, Chelsea. I was born in sincetl in Chelsea and that is South London. Okay, South London. Can you talk about the environment of of what South London was when you were growing up? Yeah, Okay. Being black and in England, you're either Caribbean descent or straight up Africa. Your your parents come from Ghana on Nigeria or mostly Ghana in Nigeria, or your parents come from any of the Caribbean. So it could be Trinidad, it could be Grenada, it could be Barbados, St. Lucia, Jamaica. My family is or from Jamaica, and that's what makes up the black population pretty much when I was growing up in England. Now it's it's a lot people from everywhere, more places. But back then that's what it was. And the reason why it was that is because I think, like in the U fifties, they England reached out to its commonwealth countries to bring in manpower to help to rebuild the country after the last series of Wars M and so they reached out to their commonwealth. The British Commonwealth, which is all the countries that they owned exactly. Thank you. Yeah, let's yeah, build basically polite about it. I love it. And so my grandfather was amongst them. And so what happened was families, the heads of families went over to England, and then bit by bit they send for their wives, and they send for their children and so on and so forth. But by that time, my grandfather had already had my grandparents had already had five kids that were older and left. My mother was of the last five. She was the younger five. So she had to get shipped off to her parents in England, which wracking for her, she told me, because she she didn't even know what a coat was. Yeah, she got to England, was like it's cold, you know, so yeah, and then that's what That's pretty much how a lot of our parents, people in my age bracket, how a lot of our parents got England. So hence we were born in England. My generation generation and my family born outside of Jamaica. Okay, so I don't know when this will air exactly, but we're sort of speaking right now, right when UK is on the sort of the forefront of the news with how the monarchy and its relationship with American community. Yeah, American community. I'm sorry, I'm so used to seeing that the black to d of the UK man. I just did a patrise O Neil thing, you know when jokes that when he goes to European countries and still calls them foreigners, like and not even the term that you say, no like, no, no, no, That's what I'm saying. I did not hear the term African American until I came to this country. No, but what do you call so do they? Do you say the blacks of the UK? Like? Is that something that you say as we just say black people a black person British right, right, right, brit right. But what I the thing is, you know, I was watching the news today and um, they had a you know, a bunch of news punting's on talking about well mainly marco versus uh old boy from the Piers, and you know when he was speaking of his disgust of certain figures in the media and especially with the Prime Minister there. I mean, I noticed that he was using talking points that I thought, we're just exclusively for African Americans in the United States, Like I thought just I thought, basically like post slavery stereotypes of black people, like he was saying that the Prime Minister was on the record one saying that, you know, like every black person here in London has watermelon smiles. And I was using terms like Piccanindian things that I thought were exclusively just for like based in down South American terms that I've never heard used in Europe before, which I mean I foolishly. I mean, of course I know that racism is worldwide, right, but that's the thing like that until I came to this country, right, But I'm saying, that's the thing. I haven't heard the terms used for us in the United States over there. So I wanted to know, like what was what our version of our version of the N word was warm w o g wog. You're a wog? Yeah, so the white person calls you wag, then it's time to start throwing hands. If if a white person calls you a wog, they're going to be taunts. Allnus do other black people call themselves walks? No? So there so there's not w w Wog comes from the end of gollywog and a gollywog. If you look that up was one of those like black face dolls. It's like a rag doll, right, So it's made out of material, and it's black faced with wool hair, right, and it looks like actually kind of like it's dressed like how Al Jolson to dress. So doll, it's a rag doll that's dressed like Al Jolson. It's black faced with wolf coat. And that's a gollywog. Wait, now I'm curious if that even has a relationship to the word polly wa I was thinking that too. I've heard that using many punk rock title or something like that. So pollywog is like a little like toad or something, right, it's like a kind of im not I think that is? That is, but gollywog was a dog that ain't that? Yeah? Yeah, all right, now I ain't never alright, got it? Yeah? But growing up what you know for for some of you is a tadpole, okay, tadpole. But growing up in over there? How how long were you over there before before you came to the United States. I left. I left England for good when I was seventeen and change. Okay, so up until that point was was their racial tension at all? Or absolutely absolutely. It's just like it's just like, forgive the similarity, but it's like, um, a cool a cool aid of a different flavor. Well, because it's like you know, whereas you may consider the cool aid flavor over here of the f ship that was going on, you might consider that read okay, well but it was orange, you know what I'm saying. But it was still it was it was still part of a cool aid. Oh yeah, it used to be the scroup of um you couldn't like you would have fear i'd had I have an older brother, I would have fear for my brother to be out past a certain time because I would be scared that he'd bump into a group of National Front guys. National guys were skinheads. Yeah, they were skinheads with hide dr marw in boots and then jacket. There were the rare suspenders and the uh yeah that stuff right, and you get you know, they black boy, a couple of black boys get caught wrong side of town, it's late or whatever. They get done in they get done and beat to a pulp death. You know. Okay, that's that was my next question. Whereas you know, teenage me, my dad would probably have more fear that the police would do that to me first and then second, you know, going on the wrong side. I mean we never Philadelphia really didn't get caught up in gang culture, similar to if I were growing and there was that because there was a lot of markings on the war saying National Front rules and go back, wogs, go home and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah existed, and and parents would be scared mainly for their sons because the sons would always be the ones that would be prone to be out the doors, would be at home, you know, and um, they would be scared for their sons running into groups of National Front kids. It's kicked in. And also the sad the sad vans, and the sad vans are paddy wagons and that's what we used to call them, sad vans. Are you have you watched um Small Acts yet? And you know something, I just got told about it. I just got told about it about and I was like, I need to watch it, I really do. And I saw some of the trailers for it and I'm like, oh my god, this is exactly, yeah, this is exactly how we came up over there, exactly how we came up. Yeah, the first two to me were did you watch the rest of it? I watched. I just watched Lover's Rock. I haven't seen the other ones. Are you just seen the second one? The house Party one? House Party one? I gotta watch thee with Lovers Rock as a whole genre of me music that we used to listen to. Absolutely, I see music music wise. You know, I guess for us, even though he didn't paraded as as hard as I expected him to. You know, slick Rick was sort of our I guess, our introduction that hip hop is a worldwide thing and not just a local New York thing, But like, what what was the the environment as far as hip hop was concerned? Like how did it reach you over there? Okay? Through videos? Through videos, through UM, wild Style videos, breaking videos, graffiti videos. It came to us like that. We didn't get just the first runner like bootlegs. We do well. I think bootlegs tapes of like Wild Style and UM and then that led onto actual real releases of like Breaking and Beach Street. But that's how that's how it got to us. When we got hip hop, we didn't get it in its music form. First, we got it in its art form as far as the movement end of it. First, that's how you didn't have a Rappers Delight on radio? What the hell is this? M Yeah, we did, but it was it was kind of discoing. We didn't we didn't make the connection between hip hop the culture that that that came out of the rubble, you know. We didn't make that connection when we saw Rappers Delight on top of the Pups, which Top of the Pups is like a British version of America from bandstand. So when we saw them on top of the Pups doing Sugarhill Gang doing UM Rappers Delight, we didn't make the connection with the hip hop culture. Yet he started We started a simulating our own pseudo movement of hip hop and England once we started seeing going on in as far as tapes of Wild Style and UM. And as a matter of fact, somebody that helped deliver us more so with the culture, more so than sugar Hill Game for England at least, was Malcolm McLaren because he included them breaking in his video Oh for Buffalo Girls and and we saw that and that's another way that we started making the connection. And so we started we developed cruise again. I was spinning on my back. I was, I wasn't rhyming. So you started off dancing, you started off dancing before run? What was his what was his true role over there? I mean you're Malcolm's name mentioned of course with the sex pistols and then you know his early for a reason to electronic hip hop in three? But um, I mean, was he this Spengali Warhol figure over there or like what absolutely that's exactly his position, That is exactly his position here parties or you know, no, no, I wouldn't say that, or if he did, I certainly wasn't in that crowd, and none of my peers were in that crowd. But what he did do and where we did make a direct connection with um, Malcolm McClaren, is that he ushered in the dance art form of hip hop culture. He ushered that he helped usher that in to to watch British kids for us to look at that and be like, how are they doing that? How we how how to do that? How are they doing that? Now? I was gonna say, do you remember what, folks, what was before hip hop? Then? Like what was what were young kids listening to the police? We were listening to that we were listening to the police. We were listening to Um, we was listening. Yeah, we were. We weren't you know, we wasn't. We weren't doing anything. We didn't get hit by the hip hop cultural bug yet, you know we all we had was police. Makes sense though they make the scar the scar was no absolutely because it was a very heavy. A lot of the British bands were heavily influenced by the Caribbean population in English. So you know there's this there's a group called bad Man and they were like a scar band too, bad Manners they were Yeah, they were a scar band too. Um. Of course that we mentioned the police, good night runners, um, the Specials, the Specials, that's another one. Heavily spite that there was two Jamaican guys in the group. So you mean, like were they okay, explained this, What the hell is a rudy? I hear the term white shirt, white shirt, skinny, black tie, black jacket, um hat, but yeah, yeah, yeah, drain pipes like fish boom? Are these white guys are black? Is like every time I hear a rudy, is that like rude boy or something? Or yes, it's it's the British version of what Jamaicans would call rude boy. Because you know, when I heard Sky songs, they are always talking about rudy, and I thought, like, kind of that, Johnny, what's Johnny Taylor's word? Like Jody Jody? Right? I thought that Rudy was just like this fictional character or whatever that the woman while you was away, Right, That's what I thought. But no, no, a Rudy is a British version of what Jamaicans call rude boy. Okay, Like if you look at early pictures of Bob and Bunny and Peter Tush, right, look at early pictures before everybody got locks, they were rude boys. Oh, since you brought it up, can you talk about your daddy? Yeah, my dad's my my dad was a rude boy. My dad's uh and my dad is full fledged rasta right now? Yeah, yeah, yeah, my dad's full fledged rasta. I tell he's been you know, all my life. His his locks is now under his feet, okay, in music at all or yeah, my dad played trumpet. Yeah, my dad played trumpet when I was growing up, so the house was very musical. Um, Sundays was his days when he would practice. So he would put on a Louis arm Strong or a Miles Davis and he would play along to it and that would be his his his practice, and that would happen on Sundays. And once I hear the trumpet going, that means I have to get up and I have to clean the bathroom downstairs, and I say my room, and it was it was intuitive, you know, you know what's happening. Yeah, so yeah, played trumpet and he was in a jazz band and anything I was growing up, were you. I'm not I'm not trying to stereotype. I don't know. It's it's just a lot of a lot of the black people that I met in the UK, when they're talking about growing up in the seventies, they would tell me that basically, like a lot of their their parents were super, super conservative, so you know, they didn't have experiences of like sneaking out the house at thirteen to go to whatever a studio fifty four was or that sort of thing. Like were you a club kid at all? Or was cool Hirks version of hip hop your music experience where you know there's playing on the streets or no. I we well, let's see when I started breaking and stuff like that. We would go to Covent Garden during the day in the afternoon and that's what And I would make sure all my chores were done so that I could bounce in my pay arrants. Wouldn't have anything to say, um but but be back at soon and I would go to Covent Garden meet up with my friends and we would just pop and break and just practice all day, either in Covent Garden Square or in the charing Cross Tube Station because the flaws were really smooth in the charing Cross Tube Station, so we can so we could get some really good windmills in the back spins the Oh so you were a serious b girl. Yeah, okay, okay, I didn't know your level was. I don't know it was curiosity or like, oh yeah, no, we would battle. We would battle each other. It was all different crew. Seriously, we developed fake beef with North Londoners just for no reason because you needed somebody to battle. Yeah. Wait, that's that would be my side of town. Okay. So did people like go to different territories or was it territorial? Yeah, it was probably California. It was very territorial. Um, you know, we took it seriously and there were fights sometimes and yeah, like you would not be caught on in candom Market or any like only if somebody came over and was performing and they were at a place called, um, what was the what was the name of the Electric Ballroom in Camden Town and sometimes there would be performance to say like I saw Chuck Brown and the Soul Searches at. Yeah, I saw Chuck Brown and Soul Searches at in Camden Town at Electric Ballroom. Absolutely yeah. I also saw Steps to Sonic in that same venue. Really yeah yeah yeah, hip hip hop wise, like how how big was the the local talent? Because again like there was I knew of Slick Rick. There's there's another dope rapper that was out like in I'm having Bring from the UK from the UK Cookie Crew not Cookie Crew. But it's like this guy he he always ended his verse with shopper than a heart attack, but he was rhyming over body birds, I'm coming. It's like they played it a few times in like forget it, I forget his name, but Shopper than a heart attack, it's my wrong in cold effect like no, but I liked him because that sounds like from snap the thing like him because I don't say this, don't say that yo, and I still have and I'm still not convinced that that guy is not being rams. I'm sorry, I'm still I'm still not convinced. I've never seen the snapping. I have never seen him in the same place. No. But the thing is is that with with most UK artists, they lose their accent once they start singing and rapping. But he maintained that that accent throughout, and that's why I liked him. But I wish I knew his name. But when I get off this podcast, I'm going to hear that. I'm sorry. How did they look at that stuff? Though? Only like like Derek be and Cookie Crew? How were they received in the UK? Well, they were received very well because they were our first generation of born and bred British art first wave. Papa was from there too, right, Papa girls yea, yeah, yeah yeah yeah. Cooky Crew were my man. I was baby. I used to roll with them everywhere to all their shows, be at their sound checks. I learned a lot from being around them. Really. I came up, yeah, I came up under Susie Q and Debut D. I came up under them. I love the man like I remember buying Uh. They once played in a different world, on a different world the first season. There's a clip of of Dwayne and Uh Denise back when Lisa Name was on the show doing the whop to what's their first seingle? Females get on up female? Yeah, and I remember I don't know, like back then, if if a song was on a sitcom, then you asked about it the next day and then you got it. So yeah, yeah, you mad, But like, what do you know what they're doing now? Or well, I know I debut, so I mean remedy, remedy, remedy remedy, not debut debuts. Another of my another of my female mcs that I look up to, debetes a Remedy is the Cookie Crew and I speak to her. She's really well, she works. She actually heads her own marketing company still in London now and she still works very much within um the music business specifically because she has firsthign knowledge of being herself. So she works has her own market firm in the entertainment business in England. Okay, so how did you get the how did you make the transition, uh into becoming an m C and taking it serious enough to actually doing it all right? Um, when did it pretty much? When did it stop being a hobby or a secret that only was shipped between me and the bathroom mirror with a toothbrush? Wow? You was real? Yeah? So yeah, like who who pulled you out of your shindness and said you should do this? You know what it was? It was a bit of envy. And the envy came from I did a wait October December January February. I did a five five months stint at George Wingate High School in Brooklyn, New York. My mother was in transition of possibly moving to the United States. She had a job for respected um Jewish lawyer in Manhattan at his office and he was going to sponsor my mother. She came over. She you know, she worked for his family, took care of his children or what have you. And in return, he was gonna, you know, do her bees are in the paper. That's how a lot of people did it back then. And um, she bought me with her because I was the youngest one. We were living in Brooklyn on East St. Between Clarence sew You and I went to George in Gate High school, and they had metal detectives, which is something I had never seen before. You went from living around place where they didn't the cops didn't have guns, to a place where they I went. I went from Catholic school, not for Dame or girls uniform with a cresp on my blazer wearing. Okay, I went from that. Yeah, it was quite a culture shock for me. But I found up in the same high school as mc L and C like was already an aspiring m C. And I would have to listen to her talk about how she was at Latin Quarters and so this is where the envy kicked in. Uar, Well, I'm sorry, I just came back in the room. Okay. So that's where the envy came in. So I when I left and went back to England after doing like six months going to school in Brooklyn, and I went England. And then I was like, if only light new I'm just as dope. I'm dope too, I could rhyme. It was a secret. I never told anyone, you know, Yeah, it was a secret. I'm just I'm a word smith. English was my favorite language. Poetry was my favorite thing. Um, I love words, you know, And so it was I had a knack for so I kept it a secret that I would write poems and write poetry and stuff. And so by the time I went back to England, and then I would be like, I should have told her, I should have told like that I'm dope to and blah blah blah blah blah. Right, So through all of that, I started letting it out, you know, I started letting it out that I could do this once I got home to England. So I made a name for myself. So the next time I saw a light, right, the next I saw light she came over to England to do a show and I went to that show right, and I made sure that I got backstage right. And then when um I said hi, She's like, oh my god, you you're you know you're back, You're back here? And I was like, yeah, I said guess what. I was like, I could rhyme too, let me bust a voice for you know, how old are you at this point? How old are you? Seven? Like sixteen and change. I hadn't I hadn't turned seventeen yet. Okay, yeah, those are the best auditions, right. Remember Remember I don't remember the first but I do remember her saying, why didn't you tell me you did this? All this time you were in we were in school together and you could do this and you never told me. And I just like, I don't know. I just I guess I wasn't ready yet or I was nervous, you know. You would go with telling stories about going to like as and being in the same club, in the same room as Eric b Irack, him and all of them, and and I was like, you know, I just was like little only secret or what have you. But but we were we were tight in high school and then we developed an even stronger bond afterwards when she saw me again in England and I bust my little rhym for her. Whatever. She was very encouraging. She was very encouraging. She's like, I wish you would have told me you did this, you know, maybe we could have. I was like, I couldn't have came to Latin courters with you. I was like my grandfather's Jamaican he meets me from school with a guy with a goddamn great Dane, like nobody like that. Yeah, I'd come out of the school right and I'd be like this, oh my god, you see those movies where people kids are at the doorway at their school and they're like, oh my god, that's my mama, let me off for black beforehand, my grandfather would be across the street with a great Dane. I'm like, oh my god, wait, have you ever told that story before? Like, no, I don't think no, no, no. It's like everyone knows that Buston jay Z went to school together, and everyone knows that Tribe and Jungle Brothers went to school together. I think it's a big deal that you mc light went to the same school. Yeah yeah, and that you know that you guys had this bond that apparently the world doesn't know about. And it's funny that you say jay Z because during that time, after I had gotten back to England, I met jay Z in England's still during my sixteenth turning seventeenth year, the Wine Sophie period exactly, he was there. Oh my god, you should have seen. He's such an apartment. That's why when people try to there was a period of time when people would be like, oh, what people about in their rhymes ain't real from how their lively was, and then they would try to pin jay Z in that pigeonhole, like, oh, he's talking about ship that he didn't really live. I would be the first person to be like, yes, he bloody did. Yes, these saw his apartment. I live in England. I was born in England, and I've never seen an apartment that sipping we call a flat. I've never seen a flat that based christ. It was huge. It was just like I always compared it to this movie that I saw with Harrison Ford and regarding Henry where Okay do you remember do you remember bloody apartment? It wasn't an apartment. It was massive. That is what jay Z had in England, him and Jazz. Oh, and I'm walking around and flat, like, how the fun do you guys have this? And I live in this country? You think the upstairs downstairs duplexing back like what he listened. They had the lavish life in England and he was there. They were there for like maybe four or five months something. Guys, Yeah, we're around the same age. He's only like probably a year older than me or something, and so yeah, and that was when I met him, and then and then from there it was like it was like big brother everywhere I go. When I came back, when I came back to um and I would go places wherever it would be. I don't know why. He's like, what is that thing where somebody pops up out of a garbage can? Everywhere you go, but anyway, which he would just be everywhere like how did you get here? Aware? How are you getting home? All right? I've been places when I first came back to America, I've been places right where he in the same accurate that he talks about in his music that he had from back in the day, right when he was pushing accurate and all of that. That's why I tell people, Yes he did. Yes, he'd be like he did right now. He'll pop up and be like, how are you getting home? And I'll be like, O cat, you love my friends, I'm chilling, No getting the car and take me yes, And I'd be like, I'm grown. You know, I was seventeen and changed them. He would take me right home and that that that yes, Guardian home. That so many times to the point where I used to get like, blood do you hell? Like what do I have like a tracking device? Like how are you always? How is it well? Always did? I think it's so fascinating that y'll like the same age. People don't even think about numbers like that. Yeah, and both of them are regressing in age. That's the Yeah, that's true. It's a lotion. They're not sharing it with us, but that's cool. I'm an I got it, puts the lotion on its skin. I just so, I think the first time I heard you on record was is there was a remix for Fine Young Cannibals She drives Me Crazy. I didn't know it was you at the time. How did you not know that with me? And well, because no, no, no, no, I didn't know what a mony love was at the time when I heard it, right, No, no, no, no, I knew of your name. Like I guess the first time I heard you was doing our own thing, I think on Jungle Brothers. But I believe she Drives Me Crazy remix kind of predated that a little bit. But I remember, like you had a very definitive, like a very sexy voice. You had your accents. Yeah you know, I I'm knowing you for decades a moment, so sorry to no no no, but I just that's interesting because I definitely wasn't trying to be that. But it's I mean, it's something. I mean, obviously it had to been something because you know, Prince Reach reached out to YouTube. It was something very distinctive that didn't sound like any well. I mean, first of all, I'm I'm not saying that as far and few between, uh with women in hip hop, but I mean, there there there, it's been slow to come to fruition. And I'm again I'm not saying that there's been a lack of female mcs, but there's definitely been a kind of the faucet has been slow for the powers that be that will let him have a platform. But how did you But I remember that really making an impression on me, Like I like that, I like this song, Like I would have spend that version in the club that remix instead of the regular version. How did you like? Was that your your is time on wax At that point, no, no, no, no, no, I had I had already had um my own singles. Listen the first the first single that was ever put together. I was in a group and we were called don't last. Okay, all right. I was in a group and we were called just bad productions, you know, because like Bookie damn products, Like oh wow, I was j BP. Okay, a little bit of a stretch, but I see what he was going for. Am So we were It was four of us. I was the only girl. It was me, DJ SO, M m C, J Pogo, m C Mellow and Sparky. Sparky was the beat guy. He programmed all out beats. Um Mellow was another m C and DJ Pogo. They were three really like known DJs from the UK. So you're saying that being in j PP wait, j BP, j BP just bad productions. J BP has bad productions, all right? So what? Oh my god? What? We put a record out? We put a record out and it was under Tim Westwood's label, wore Fresh Start of the Week. Old were you? How old were you in that time? Just okay, nigger. I've heard so many stories. I've heard so many stories about Tim Westwood. What does he represent to hip hop culture for the UK. I've heard the best things about him. I've heard the worst things about him. The first person I heard to get shot, I was. I was there the night that he got shot, as I used to live in London. We were shocked. We were okay, what was the name of that? That junglest crew was so solid, so so Solid Solid crew. Yeah, we we we had did a gig all I remember, no, no, no, we didn't do a gig. Tribe had come over to the UK this right, women and more artists came out. Whatever happened? Uh when we got home, we found out the next night that that Westwood had gotten shot in the asked by one of the Soul Solid people or one of those junglest crews. And it was at that point, you know, up until that point, I thought he was like an untouchable luminary because you know, he's on the intro of public enemies, nation of millions. But it wasn't until you know, when we got news of this happening. Then I started hearing like some of the shadier things or whatever, like but what what was Tim Westwood role in hip hop? And you know, again, I always think that forever, whoever the poster boy is of the movement, there's always some unspoken hero that really did the work or whatnot. So I never know who to believe, Like is he a hero? Is her villain? Is he? Let me say, all right, let me tell you how real it's gonna get with me? Right, okay? Talking about Tim Westwood, I don't care for Tim Westwood. I have I have, I have no inhibitions of saying that, knowing that he's going to see this. You know, I don't. I don't care for you. You You notice. Tim, however, he was everything to hip hop and provided us a place and a space to be able to listen to the music of the be able to battle each other from all the different corners of London. He was the only person that got us a venue and you was about as big lean to the side. Yeah, it was about as big as that, right, The venue was about as big as that with the with the Michael Jackson, Billy Jean dance floor, right with the you know, absolutely right. And it was only for two hours on a Saturday, so it was a lunchtime jam. So he didn't he didn't even get a space, a big space for a long time. He started off tiny with a out of time. But he's still a space and a place where we could come. You could listen to hip hop music and we could battle each other, right, and we could we could excels within the culture. He did that and then from there what he further did was got himself a small pocket of time on BBC Radio. It wasn't BBC back then, it was it was the other, the other one. I can't blood you remember Capital, You've got a Capital You've got a radio show on Capital Radio where it was a very short show. But he was the only one that ex isted that played hip hop music. He is a can't do it. He is the reason why there were groups that were able to come over and do shows, because without us being able to hear the music, and without us being able to have somewhat of a scene in England, there's no reason for us to want to go out there to see any of the artists performed because we would not have been familiar with them if it wasn't for Tim Westwood. He was the can't do it for hip hop. He was one of the main can't do it for hip hop culture. So this and when I said to you in the beginning of me even talking about that, you know, this is how real I'm going to get with it. If you hear me, give you an speaking about somebody where I say to you, I don't really care for them too much, but yet and still I follow that by by telling you how portant this was to the culture as far as its progression in Okay, you know what I'm telling you. You know what I'm telling you is real. Oh yeah, I mean I can see that, like sub Knight is a ville, but I want to deny the power of death Row. Nobody was really nobody. Nobody wants to get on this platform with me. No, no, no, shugg for real. I mean the thing with Sugar, I mean he even said it, like the things that he was doing back then, like you know, signing artists to like Okay, we get a piece of your publishing, your shows, your this. You know, at the time, all the labels was like, oh Sugar is ripping y'all off. That's bullshit. But now they're all doing it now. Yeah, they all shooking your head. So he wasn't a criminal. He was just ahead of his time, right exactly exactly, So that part Harrison I was going forward. I mean, we can go a little, we can talk to us, we can say we could say daddy if you want to, or based on my quest left the Preme experience prints perk pause, Yeah, okay, how prints? How give it to break down? Just because just on the perception of somebody doing great, but at the same time talking to like the revolution and seeing on an individual level and as a person he may not have always been like the nicest and always exactly So I'm just say that. No, no, no, no, that's that's remember when you when you said uh, there was some disparaging stories and some people kind of started coming out saying, oh, well Tim Westwoth did this and he did that, fante, what did you just say? What was the word? Okay, okay, so they got something in there. You go, he's dick. It's a lot of dicks that's doing a lot of great things we learned. But what can never be denied is that Tim provides him really provided a place in the space, but he at least a single with just bad prisons. And the contract looked like you know how facts paper used to come out with perforated part side. That's what the car tract looked like, right, And that's what the contract looked like next your paper bag. Yeah, just like did you have your parents? I well, I had to take it to my parents because I was too young myself, and I took it to my dad and my dad did like this, Oh my dad just looked at it and went and that I didn't sign that, and then that was you know, that was that? But yeah, so I got found by a legit label which was Chrysalist, and I got signed to them, which essentially got uh. I think they got swallowed by E M. I like, yeah, but back then they were predominantly a rock label. But of course everybody was going around looking for the next trend. Hip hop was the next best trend. I got found at a jam that I was participating in and offered a record deal there, and their contract didn't come off with facts paper with the perforated edge. Wait. Actually, um, speaking of Westwood shows, I found out Carol Lewis is still my agent years later and she told me she told me something really hilarious last year, which was I didn't know about. So there's there's like a slew of second generation hip hoppers like rock him uh, like Kine came not so much anymore and um, Carris one that have a fear of flying and have never gotten on a plane. I know Kristen Kristen when Christmas come over to do shows like a money before he gets there, right, So ye, Carol Lewis told me that in May if she would book gigs for either Eric being Rock him or bdp Um and at the time Kane they would have to get on the Queen Mary for two weeks. It takes two weeks to get from New York. Damn see, I was about to do an inappropriate Chris Rock middle passage joke. Yeah, yeah, I can't believe, yeah that it was hard for rappers so to get over there. So like, how how often? At what point was seeing American artists in the UK a normal thing and not just the novelty. It became a normal thing progress quickly. God bless him. I don't I don't know if you ever had enough. I need to meet this guy. But Dave funking Clin, Dave Kline, Yeah, Dave funking Clin. He was the main ambassador. Shows would be booked and he would bring artis over. He was the main ambassador, US ambassador. He bought over. I met my first American boyfriend through Dave Funking Clin. He bore over Latifa, True Mathematics, Chill, Rob g and the of his first first string of shows in Camden Town. I'm the Jungle Brothers. I went to the show and I met the Junger Brothers at Dingwalls, which was a club in Camden Town over by Dave Funking Clin and um one of the Jungle Brothers, and I started day Internet was Africa from the Jungle Brothers. All right, son, I'm gonna do my first conflict adventurous comment right now. Um now, this is my first conflict of interest conflict comment. Well, no, because Gracie told me something. Now here's the thing. Forget the Jungle Brothers. So the Jungle Brothers, like, you know, it was like everything to me and Trek the second we saw them. Tarik was like, yo, everything we were going into to Banana Republic. We dressed in all khakis and da da da da da walking around with sticks and staffs and all that stuff. So we were like even before the Daisation all that ship, like we were Jungle Brothers heads first. So I was explaining to her that, you know, everything about Africa was so cool to us, like his ad lips and everything, and in our minds we thought that he was just like he just sounded like a really cool forty year old And Gracie was like he was the he was a mama's boy, like he had to Like, She's gonna kill me for saying this that you know that Like in my mind, I'm thinking like when Africa talks like he has a pipe or you know, smoking tobacco and like doing old Graham pop ship, and she was like no, like he had to get permission from his mom to come out and stay out late and all these things. And I just in my that's just totally ruined my perception because I can't imagine this this cool ass sound and dude like asking his mom permission to hang out on the weekends or yeah, yeah, that's right. So basically they're there, you're plug into what become the connection. Yeah yeah, yeah, because what happened was personally Africa and I started dating, and then professionally Africa was responsible for recording half of my album. Oh yeah. And then it's how I met where a h deliberates his beats from and has uh you know, brainstorming sessions with where he gets his beats from. So that met Juju from the beat Nuts from the beat Nuts. Yeah, so that's how I met Juju, And then obviously that's how I met Cute Tip also and um pass and and made That's how all of that transpired. Okay, because I often hear that you know the beat Nuts are official or unofficial native tongues. But I know they did production on your record, so basically was that the first time they did production. No, they are the they were beat Nuts were like the source, the creative beat source for Africa and and a cute tip. And this was all earlier. We have ill records. You should use this. You should use this, not necessarily credited. But I it now, Okay, I see we we got to do. You do You're right, and saying, oh my god, yeah, you do have to do because oh my god. I cried my eyes out one time when Juju came and he didn't have my address. So when they when you get there and they ask you, what are you here for business there? And he was here he said um pleasure And they're like, where are you staying. He's like, I don't know because he didn't have my address. Oh my god, and they searched him. Oh my god, and he called me and I was crying, Oh my god. It was horrible, and I was did they send him home? No? They luckily they didn't send him home, but he had they strip searched him. Oh my god. It was that London. I've never Canada might be slightly Yeah Canada, Yeah, Canada. Yeah, Canada is laxed up. I don't know if Canada is lacked up or is this the fact that people my age now are the authority figures? So whoever is thirty and forty and fifty or now, like, hey, what's love? You guys do want to show here which wasn't happening in the first ten years of my career. That was awful. I'm not going to give you the whole thing. Please, when you speak to Juju, just ask him. And to this day, I think maybe four days four days ago, I apologized to him again for the fifty millionth time on Instagram on one of my feeds in some comments, oh my god, I'm so sorry anal anal probe and rappers in the UK, there's no most rapped about it, most rapped about it on his record the ship happened to me. I know at least five others like yeah, yeah, no doubt, no doubt. Talk to Juju about that when you talk to him. But yeah, that's it. Everybody deserves four hours of preparation before Oh my, preparation is the wrong word to use. A classic Richard Nichols movement, um rich Rich told us the way we remedy that. Seriously, we would go to UK rich Ward just be like, don't don't wash your nuts or you asked for three days straight and they'll skip it and sure enough, No, I'm dead serious, like we would go on a Friday, I might not shower, you know, we're the same one to wear or whatever. There's nobody I'm serious like they would they would be. It was that disparagefice. This is a fascinating episode of quest. I'm dead serious. Like the ships that I've learned tonight is like as as racist, as as racist as they are, they do not want to touch your black salty nuts. They don't want to search that bad Hey sound bite by life than what I just heard in my ears. Wait a minute, wait a minute, this is bad all right? So my iPhone is right next to me. Oh, he literally sirie in Google salty nuts. As racist as they are, they don't want to touch your black softy knot. And I'm turning the phone off. T shirts. Yeah, I'm turning my phone off, all right? So why am I thinking about South Park right now? Never mind? Go ahead, you know that song was number one in the UK. That was because when he passed away. When he passed away and and I think it was either his New York Times uh obituary or whatever, like they were like in Hayes was enjoying a comeback of sorts. Is his hit shot was a top ten was a top ten. Man. I don't think he wants that as his legacy, right, Yeah? It was a little crazy, all right? Can I ask, is I know what you're gonna say, so you might as well just pop the balloon and deflated? Are our third generation? If our third generational people like me and Fante the mpill whatever are we making and romanticizing the myth of native tongues more than what it was daisies. I mean at its height, what was the environment like between seven two? It was a commune filled with creative waterfalls. That's a lot of sex a commune and waterfalls. You gotta put the But I said creative waterfall? You did? You did? But I was just read between I wasn't no, but I mean, I mean there was there was there were inter relationships, yes, okay, there were, there were definitely those, But it was just like it was like it was like my kids made. My youngest thought of made. She has me watching mixed Dish with her every time they looked back to the old scenes of when they were on the commune or what have you. Okay, it was like that. It was like that. So it wasn't fake. It's it's like the romanticizing that you envisioned. It was real. It was a real thing. It really was. I'm glad I asked you, because you know, Dave and Pass will like roll their eyes like here he comes again with more. So, guys, what was it like when you guys discovered the this break whatever? So David Pass first of all, because when we were in it, David Passed were rolling their eyes, you know what I mean, when we were in it, David Pass was rolling in the rise because that's just that's just who they are, you know what I'm saying. The beats here right, and David Passed like, you know, and that's just who they are. That's just that's just who they are, you know, the same it was just so freaking like nothing was a problem, like if everything was just so cool. I remember one night met Macio was one of the last people to leave the life. Because, first of all, when I say commune, I really meet commune. And the place of the commune's existence main office was Calliope Studios in Manhattan. Everybody's sessions was in Calliope's. It doesn't matter if it was Cute, if it was Tribe, if it was the Alla, if it was Jungle, if it was me, if it was Latifa, it didn't you know, if it was dreaded black sheet as in law, it doesn't matter. It was always Calliope Studios. We were always in Calliope Studios. Calliope Studios was the everything. It doesn't matter who session it was, we were always there. Um and it was always a fu young why. I don't know. Chinese deliveries very convenient twenty four hours. It was no like uh, it was never. It was always need food, all right. So obviously you guys are post Latin Quarter, or at least what you represent. And here's the thing, Like everyone that's been on the reason why they were joking at the top, I want to know what that's the thing again, I'm I'm a guy that romanticizes and fetishizes everything, the lore of whatever. So you know, I've heard many stories about the Latin quarters. You know, half our guests that've been on the show are you know, Latin Quarter luminaries And so it almost became like the the inside joke, like how long until a mirror ask? But the thing I also didn't understand was that, like, why would somebody I really want to risk their lives the way that I see it, Like, you go to the Latin Quarter and you're either going to have the time of your life and here's something really mind blowing, or you know, you might get your chain snatched or you might get stab shot, killed or hurt. And to me, that wasn't risky enough just to hear you know, l L's booming system for the first time played by I read alert or whatever. Yeah, but maybe maybe maybe maybe it's because you're generation while you feel that way, because yeah, that was real and that was it, and that was a risk that we were prepared to take. That was the only place you could get it exactly. So what what was by the time you came to the United States? Um, and please explain that missing that plane back to London reference? Well, okay, missing the plane back to London reference. First of all, everybody was in the studio still I left. I was supposed to go back to any for a few days. And the specific occasion I was supposed to go back to London before is Stevie Wonders birthday party at Wembley Arena BOYD Jewels not boy George George Michael and I were supposed to sing happy Birthday to him. Yeah, wow, well assuming there was, but I missed. Yeah, it was I missed the plane. Whoa wait a minute, wait you were damn for real? Yeah, And so I got back in the cab and I went back to Calliope and I went back session and they were doing dou ding and uh Africa and then was like, all right, you got you got eight, go do it. And that's exactly what I never knew that reference. Okay, yeah, but I felt like I felt like ship like I didn't. It was an achievement to go in and kick some rhymes. But those rhymes were real rhymes because I really I was like, I'm going to get in some people, Oh my god, like because I really did just miss the plane and I'm supposed to be at Wembley Arena in London for Stevie Wonder's happy Birthday celebration. I mean, do you still regret it. I do regret it because I was I don't like not being where I'm supposed to be, and it was like giants, I was supposed to be on stage. Yeah, but you gotta you have you have an immortalized verse. So I do have an immortalized verse. But it's for me. It serves the purpose of reminding me that I fucked up. Understand wrong. Yeah, it wasn't a real It wasn't a real reason for me to be late. It was some some vain ship. I left this particular top that I wanted to wear, and I made the bloody driver go back to the house so I could get it for the good fellas. I don't flower it out my hat. I don't flower you're so, what was the now? The one thing I don't know is post Latin quarter? What was now the nightlife? Like, what's where do you? What's your weekly schedule? In terms of like we hang at this club at this night and the World on Little thirty Street in the meat meat Market section of Manhattan on the west side Little thirty Street. Yeah, the World. The World was a club that Paradise run the door to Paradise branded or Paradise right, Everything Okay, yeah, really, and it had five floors and on the roof it was it was a floor, but it was open obviously because it was a roof and used they used to do barbecue up there. So there's the house floor, there's the hip hop, the reggae floor, there's a cool out floor, and then there's a barbecue on the roof. Okay, wait, I do have a question again. You're your your speaking voice and your rhyming voice our night and day like at that period in your teens, were you code switching a little bit in terms of unintentionally, yes. And the reason here's where the code switching happened. It didn't happen because of music. It happens because I was going to school at George Wingate High School in Brooklyn, which was Metal Detectors and like Brooklyn's version of Joe Clark. And it was just I didn't want the attention that I was getting. I had a only Braxton haircut before Tony Braxton. Okay, when I was going to school in Brooklyn. It was like eight six, right, and I cut all my hair off. It was super super short, but it was it wasn't just cut, It was cut into a style for for sixteen fifteen, sixteen year old girl to have her hair or cut off in a sleek like that done yet in Brooklyn. I'm from England. I've got this crazy haircut. My style of dress is different, and I'm getting viewed and called exotic. I don't like that term. So when people walk up to you, like, just say something exactly, yeah, So how did you what is your what is your American eyes? New York? I studied however he spoke? I studied how everybody spoke. So how did you speak? And you switch it right now? I do. I do come in and out anyway. Would say like to have me say something or say something to eat that's going to demand an answer and then I'll still do it. What you want? What do you have a breakfast day? Wait? Wait wait what did you say? Wait a minute? Wait wait wait wait wait wait way. First of all, okay, wait, first, first of all, I don't even understand what you're saying. What you want with cheese? I don't eat no chop cheese. That's the filly ship. No, it's not. That's New York. I don't even know. That was pretty good. A chop cheese is a New York Cheese steak cheese that Cameron made it famous. You know, it's it's basically taking hamburger. It's making a hamburger but then chopping up the hamburger and putting it on a hero role that must be specifically some Harlem ship because it's chop Cheese got its fame around n there's a spot on a street. Um It's at one point it was getting out of hand because like a lot of tourists were coming up there, like risking their lives in front of the projects to get the authentic Yes, the authentic chop cheer a cheeseburger, Hogan. I mean, you're you're just missing it making it sound like that. But it's okay. But we never said we never said here I am, and this is it and this what is This is what it sounds like. And I used to go on Empire and get either a blippy sandwich or the windy Is this this person your kids with that voice, because that's like the next level ship sounds like Yeah, angry McFee, Yeah, angry McFee is right. It's straight brit I can't even when I'm talking to them, and it gets there. But yeah, that's what that's that's the switching, and that's the studying that I did, study how everybody else spoke. You won't come, you won't come, get something to eat. You're gonna eat the school lunch. Now I don't want the school lunch. I'll come with you. Where we going? We go to white Where we going to White Castle? All right? Money, you know this question is coming. All right, go ahead, you know it's coming. Okay, it's a part of this too. I don't just I just go ahead of Oh no, we didn't even talk about Jesus. Nah. Okay, Oh wait, I actually have to build up to it because we're still with native tongues. Um, fuck it, I'm going right to it. No build up, Yeah, no build up subtle. Let's see, can you Well. I don't want you to tell the Big Daddy King story. However, I would like you to tell me what hip hop touring was like during that time period because and the reason why I really want to know is because I didn't realize that my group sort of set a precedent that I didn't realize wasn't the norm. Now, you know, you talked about you talked about jay Z's penchant uh, for the finer things or whatever. But Tarik is very much the same way, and you know, in his clothes and whatever. So I thought it was just we thought, or at least I thought it was some normal ship to be staying at a four seasons hotel and these deluxe tour buses and all this ship. But I didn't realize that was basically Tarik demanding the rich, like, yo, I want to travel and comfort if I got to be on the road. Three Wait a minute, right, So by the time I met you guys, that's what the fun you guy? Yeah? And but wait, here's the deal. Here's the deal. It took care to tell me no mirror. See the problem is, you guys get hotels every night. Everyone gets their own suite every night, one to a room. You got she got stories thousands of dollars. I didn't realize that the way that bands really do it is that if there's a show that night, they all shower at the venue, they sleep on the tour of bus, and only on days off they might get a day room at a holiday inn or Sheridan. I mean, there was just a period where it was like, where's our money coming from? Break down Okay, there's there's an area. There's an area in between what you're saying you guys were doing and what you just described, because I wasn't doing no showering and no no day room ship with no I wasn't no, no, no, no no no, I wasn't. I wasn't. There's I am very much a British girl, okay. And I was seen that with a crest on your pocket, would have crest on your pocket exactly. But what it was it was when I say middle of the road in between what you describe both things that you described is yes, we did. We would write the tours um during the night so we would be in out since we would pull up not at a hotel. We would pull up firstly at the venue. By the time we pull up to a venue, the sound guys and stage guys they'd all be in there. Ship would have already been put up. We get in there, we do sound check first, then we get back in the bus or roll over to wherever the hotel is. Now the hotels would be your modern day. What they've turned them into is all these nice um these nice holiday in the type ones that have like the many apartments in the kitchens. Yeah, that's today, that's what they are back then. Uh. Bathroom very basic, two beds, two beds, full beds or twin beds. Bathroom very basic, right, And you know now when I look at it, I'm like, oh I would not but that back then. Man, when you when you're drunk and you want to lay down, oh my god, it's like yes please. Yeah. So that's what it was. They weren't They were probably like to star three stars, two stars, slightly above a Super eight. Who would be on tour around these times? Okay, best tour that I was ever on? Mhm. Give you an example of who would be on these types of tours. And the interesting thing about the tours was they were also interchangeable and what territories you go to. So, for instance, the tour was the Big Daddy Cane Tour, right, Big Daddy Cane, Headlines, Digital Underground, Queen Latifa, and Third Base. Those are the base groups Big Daddy Kaine, Digital Underground, Third Base, Queen Latifa. At that time, I was a part of Queen Latita's camp because she Lady First was apart very much a part of her show, and so I was on that entire tour. So those are the base groups always, right, So that's the base of your sandwich. Put it that way. But depending but depending on what territories you go to, they would add this that would be ep M D. Or they would add some tomatoes, which would be uh sure, do you know what I'm saying. So that's what I'm saying. It was like, and I'm using the sandwich analogy because it's like, depending on where you go, different ingredients are added to the show's still a hamburger. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So they were and they were fun and it was interesting because, um, I learned how to do the humpty hump while I was on that tour, so was around this time period he taught me how to do up what was this job Digital Underground? During that period, he was roadie at a dancer Wow Okay, Yeah, And he figured that me and him were the same because he was a part of Digital Underground's crew and I was a part of Black TIFs crew, so he kind of figured we were the same. I tried to assure him that I had a much more president position than because I was actually rhyming on a song or you and me are kind of the same. Right, he was. Yeah, he was trying to do that. We know we're the same, and I was trying to tell him that one of these kids is doing his own thing, like you Setime Street mofo. You had so you hadn't heard him rhyming at all before I did, because he made sure too. He walked around with He walked around with a book of He never let that finger, he never let that thing go. He walked around with that he was pestering. I joined the tour maybe two shows in because I went to Canada to see my mother first, because my mother lives in Toronto, so I went there first, and then I picked up the tour from Toronto. While I was still at my mother's house, this guy makes Kika and Alison, who are Latifa's two dances, get on their phone to call me up to ask me when are you coming? You suppose They're like, because you please get here already, because this two put guy is getting on our nerves. He wants to meet you. He's really annoying, and so where are you coming? And I'm like, who is this weirdough that you guys are? And I'm hearing him and in the background like why don't she come And I'm like, don't put him on the phone with me. I don't know him, Like who is this weirdo anyway? And they're like he's part of digital Underground. I'm like, okay, well, guys, when I get there in two days time, but no, I don't want nobody I don't know, but like bye and um. So when I get there, he's all like a kid in a candy store to meet me. And what it was was I have never met a bigger fan of hip hop period than that than that man like Tupap is the most enthusiastic, biggest fan of of everything authentic in this culture. So that's where all the excitement was coming from, you know, back then. But you know, I'm I'm the British girl. I'm a little bit reserved and I'm kind of like okay, like you're you sit down, your too much? Um. We ended up being really good friends. It's funny misconception on somebody on an interview that I did while back, where I said, yeah, we slept together. And it's funny because it's like the misconception was uh slept together being taken for more than exactly because yeah, we did we did sleep together because Alison and I uh one of the season's asses and I we shared a room and um pop shared a room with Shock Gee. But if shock geh, you had more than Park because who was pocket the time exactly And if that happened, Pot would come to our room and he would sleep Me and him would sleep in the same bed. And that's what that was saying, you know, we said because we were like the three Stooges, you know, three of us were always together. And as a matter of fact, we even had a pack that in those hotels at the time, those two three star joints whatever, they would have the buffet breakfast every morning, but it happens exactly at six o'clock a week, soon after six o'clock to leave to go to the next town. If you weren't downstairs up ready, bright eyed, bushy tailed and in that room for six o'clock when that breakfast spread is put out, you're gonna miss it. And all of those places used to have the pancakes special, So we had a pat that we would always wake each other up to make sure that we don't miss the pancakes special. I forgot to wake Park up one morning he missed the pancakes special, and he stopped speaking to me for two weeks of the tour Paddy Park. He was very petty. He stopped speaking to me. Yeah, that's testifiable. Yeah, I would say that he stopped. He stopped speaking to me. And he also hid the tabasco that I used to walk around with to put on my corn beef hash. She hit it your own personal tabasco collection memory, Yes, I see. Okay, Okay, the moaning in the middle story, can we all can we get clarification? Because what what is the Big Daddy Kane story that you mentioned? This is the in the middle story, okay, the Big Daddy Kane story and the morning Middle story, the sled up. This is the build up that he was talking, okay about in my mind based on the video. You know, I thought the pest point Dexter character it was just some Steve Arkle dweeb and I didn't know that it was a taste of chocolate. So okay, but I do know what even though even though I know the story, and I know that you know, a lot of my generation male rappers have fragile, all right, fragile egos when it comes to getting rejected. I have to give him a little bit of points for coming up with the most passive, aggressive way to figure out if you were into him or not. And that's what I gave him. Props. Forward, listen, from beginning to end. You must understand that Big Daddy Kane is absolutely the number one student of Dolomite. He the number one student of Dolomite. Big Daddy Kane does not play himself. I need you to understand this. But Daddy Kane does not put him and put himself in a position where he can be viewed as playing himself. It just does not happen. That's why they Alright, so talk about the system, the McDonald's system. This is the McDonald's system that Big Daddy came came up with. Okay, in order to understand whether I liked him in that way or not. Okay, this is real life. Is real life? You're saying, real life, y'all canemon We are officially hearing in the middle story. This is the story that inspired money. I've told you this, Okay, all right, So we're at We're in d C. I can't remember the name of the hotel, but there's this one specific hotel that everybody whenever you go to d C, it was the New York Avenue. I only know this because old Daddy Bastard once crashed the car into one of those. Yes, because I remember, Yes, that's the same. Yes, it's the same hotel. Because do you know, all right, you gotta know this days in when when you're going to d C, well you too the story. You know that days in checks it's a hostriple hotels everybody using, but every rappers stays when they first started. Now in that days in, so I attracted I don't know, the ladies first, and the whole nine yards and the vibe that it gives us love of women, love girls on the sister girl or a sister power. You know. I tracked a lot of girls and all the girls, and all the girls had caused. All the girls had caused the guys that were all in, Um whose room were they? And they were in Cane's room. Lativa wasn't there too. They were playing celo and they would stealing everybody's pre dym money. Um yeah, and so everybody get hungry. Um I was with I was actually dating No, I wasn't dating him yet, but I liked him uh, scrap Lover one of one of the big dad knees dances. Okay, but he didn't know it yet. I didn't say anything. I just peeped him. I thought he was cute whatever. So anyway, they come to me, Scooper Scrap come to me and they're like, oh, everybody in the room wants to see if they could get something to eat. Do you think one of your girlfriends would would A couple of them would drive us over to the McDonald's. There was a McDonald close by, so I was like, I'll ask. So I asked. A couple of the girls say like, yeah, mony will do anything for you, will drive over to the Who do you need us to take? So three cars when we had three cards from three different girls going over to the mcdonald'. So Scoper Scrap was getting everybody's order. So we get to the McDonald's, we're standing online and then scrap Over turns to me and says, um, all right, this is how this is gonna go. Caine wants to know if you like him, that's what's gonna happen. If you do, you walk in, you hold his food when we get back, and you hand it to him and that way he'll know, yes, you do like him. If not, then I'll just give him his food regular just myself away places it on the night stand or on the table right. So then so then to Scrap, well, it looks like you're going to be giving him his food And he was like why, and I was like, because I like you. So just just so we know, this is this This is the Black Syrano divergi xt story of which Kane Syrano Divergia is telling his boy give her instructions on how let her know if it's on or not. Yeah, I love it. It's like it's like scraps and Scrap says he Scrap says, it looked like I'm gonna be giving him back tonight, like basic basically, wait, what was Scrap throwing off? Did he know that you dug him? He didn't? Did he give him to back? He gave He gave kane is food and then and then you know, he gave Kane his food and then came, you know, came. Didn't make no face or nothing like that. It's just it was that that to me, is that yeah, that that's the next level of yes no, or maybe it is like the note that you stand back, you want this double quota founder not, so what inspired you to make a song about it? So, no, I have no idea why I it started talking to me when I started hearing the beat, because of course Monia Middle was produced by the fian Cannibals by Andy Cox and David Steele, and when I heard it was the runaway break beat, correct, Yeah, so when so when I'm listening to it, it just started talking to me, and I just started replaying that whole DC night in my head, and I was like, I was in the middle. I was in the middle. I was definitely in the middle. Actually, wait, wait, I gotta correct myself. And only only because um Sheila Sheila e corrected me on this is that we call that We call that drum track the runaway uh break. But we only found out that because of the way that they rhythmically segued that album Runaways. Technically the lasting said on the song before, but because it's in rhythm, every DJ that spends that break thinks that it's the top of the break, when actually it's just ending the song before it. And then the breakbeat starts and it's like if I could start my life over things right, Yeah, no, no, no. For the longest I called it the Runaway Break told me, well, no, like every every producers like saying it wrong because it's the song before and then if I had to start my life over, is actually the name of the you know is wow break? So so so you went so to be clear, so you wint scrap ended up dating later, y'all scraped with dating and you and kin never dated? Okay? And was your breath control? Because it's funny because I would have never known how Hardmony in the Middle actually is to perform until I actually did it one day, did for your birthday. But your birth control is kind of crazy? Was it always like that or did you really? Yeah, it sounds like control. I was like, this is beyond I know her birth control. Her birth control wasn't crazy. I know my birth control sucks. Yeah yeah, wait time out. Yeah wait. We should also clarify that the lyrical the lyrical complexity of that song, which I believe you're talking about the hook is two people and this is also a good time to bring absolutely so wait. I always wanted to know because I never got to talk to l Shan. And of course Leshan is the voice of doing it absolutely, and she's showing of of Biddy's in the b K Lounge, the woman of a billion voices and in the original doing it well, Um, what role was she in this native tongue universe? Because we first heard her on Biddy's in the b K Lounge and eventually Ormony in the Middle and she went under the name I'm enjoy was was she eventually? Like? Who was she the protege of? And how she started hanging around? She's an MC in her own right. And I don't know how she met the Jungle Brothers, but I met her because I was dating Africa and she was actually dating Sammy B. And she and have a son together, her first child samy Be okay, And so I was fresh from England and uh, she once the first women that I met when I came here to this country as Africa's girlfriend, you know, Africa's girlfriend who has a record deal, who he's producing the rest of her album. And she's one of the first women that I met. And she and I became sisters real quick. She's Brownsville, Brooklyn girl. She don't play by that voice, I can tell it, okay, But what were their immediate plans to like get her deal or she all know she was. She was an artist in her all right, she had to deal. She was signed to Wild Pitch the original doing it right. But but as I'm enjoyed, did she ever get no? No, no, she was signed as all My Joy that's her artist name. Her real name is Lishwan. She was signed to Wild Pitch as all the Joy doing it won't God flip side totally off? What's the name of the song on the B side? Okay? I see so okay? In doing ladies first, which you know has has gone down in history, how did that collaboration come to be? Whenever when I told you that Dave Funking Climb brought true Mathematics youngle brothers Cho rub Gi and Queen Latifa to England and they did a stream of shows and they were at Camden and that's where I met them. Well after that they had they drove over to England on a tour bus that they picked up in Germany and it was a German bus driver and he couldn't make heads and tales of the UK maps to be able to get from a two B to their next shows. So Funking Client asked me, would I mind riding the bus with them getting the maps out, sitting next to the bus driver to help big Just why in the documentary that you did? Uh quest? And when Shakim was talking, he said money was kind of like a tour guide. He's right, I was like a road manager at that young age because I got the maps out. I was sitting at the front of the bus with the bus with the German. I was the GPS at the original series, the original and from doing that, we wounded up, and we wound up. Excuse me. In Bristol one night I had a show. It was on a barge, so it was a do you guys know what I mean when I say barge right moving ship? It was like a house book, right, club, like a club on a houseboat right on the river, kind of ANTIQUI and Virgin and okay, and so Latifa and I was in We're in the back. She was waiting like a little green room or what you know, if you may, and she and I were talking and she was like, you know, I heard you rhyme. You know, I'm saying let me hear law something. And I gave her a look. So She's like that's dope song together. We didn't ladies first until maybe six seven months after that conversation. But that was the night in Bristol on a barge that Latifa and I had the conversation about doing a song together. Speaking of the the the allure of native tongues, When do you officially, when do you officially feel like the movement that was once the native tongues is over? Right now? I still don't feel like that. Oh okay, yeah, maybe that's just me. I still don't feel like that. I don't feel like that. I think we're I think we are in the midst of the strangest and longest hiatus ever. Oka. But there was a very where got awkward, not awkward, but no, no, that's a good word. No no, no, keep that it's a good word awkward. And since and since you're my closest connection to Africa, and since I just paid about fifty bucks for that freaking record. Uh, they just re released the original Crazy Wizard Masters, which is really not that different. They Okay, so the third album after Done by the Forces of Naster was called Crazy Wisdom Masters. And so I guess the way that the story went was that by the time that Bennie Medina had really come at the helm of Warner Brothers. Here, he was like, nah, it ain't happening right. He sent the record back and then they made a crazier record um, which was sorry, I just I don't don't understand Africa. No, no, I don't understand him. Wait he was you were on warners. I just yeah, but you would you would think that I don't know, I don't know. I just I guess I can't meet people and and have such close ties with people and and have so much involvement with people and then just completely dropped them afterwards. I don't know how to do that. He goes how to do that very well. I was going to say him, did you even know that he was my oldest child's god? And he forced himself to be like he really made it a big deal to be like I want to be her golf Like why because it's like years later she doesn't even know him now. Yes, that's an interesting dude. But anyway, you were saying, well, no, I he just hit me now that he was also I guess, assuming that he was head of your division as well. It's so weird because if I could mark the sort of weird point of Warner Brothers, at least with Kaine's career, with Prince's career a few so he also com he also orchestrated that whole exactly when he came aboard, at that whole right when he came aboard, things got a little different. Now I'm personally cool with him, but that's what she That was like Warner. If you just were a DJ, if you saw a Warner brother sticker, you knew it was some bullshit. You off real. He was like, no, I just wanted this ship whack, right, And so yeah, I was gonna ask what was it like being under that the like did you did you have a relationship with Moe Austin at the time or I didn't. I didn't. My relationship was Peter Edge, Benny Mesina, time out. Peter Edge was at Warner two. Peter Edge, I'll do better than at Warner Peter Edge came from England to the United States to Warner Brothers, made that transition during my first album. During my transition, Peter Edge was my A and R at Chrysalis. Cool tempo, okay, Yeah, so he eventually went back to your mind solf exactly. So Peter Edge came from there with me. It was like the trinity. It was my liver, puddling manager, Steve Fining, and Peter Edge. Three of us came from England to the United States. Peter Man like got the There was a night where a mayor. I gave him so much ship. I gave him so much shit about that, Prince thaying I didn't want to do it. I was annoyed. I was like, what does this have to do with hip hop? I gave Peter Redd so much ship and he was so smart. He was just so smart with it. And I just the plane ride, the plane ride to Minneapolis, I was being a bit I don't want to be here. I don't want to be on this plane. Why am I going to Minneapolis? What does Paisley have to do with hip hop? Prince at all? Like, you know, no, not even with his legacy. And I loved this. I loved him for him, but said I could not understand the man. You're afraid of your credibility of doing something. Yeah, And the thing was for me, it's just so interesting to hear the where you talk about money because to me, in a word or two is the only time that Prince ever got hip hop halfway right, like like for you know, I love that song, you know what I'm saying, Like, I love that song, you know what I mean? And I thought I always thought it was very unique. How you you know what I'm saying. We're the m c were the only time that Prince ever got hip hop right because all the rest of that ship he tried to do some rap ship that Gold Nigga album and all that ship. No no, But in a word or two, I love that song. I was like, And how long did you stay at Paisley Park? Oh? My god? I was there for ever he had. He made accommodations for my husband at the time, He made accommodations for my brand new baby, which is char Lena. At the time. He was like, whatever it is going to be to keep her happy, for her to be here for a long period of time to work. That's where I'm going to have her. And and even to the point where he had shows to do at Earl's Court in England. So I thought we were gonna break and we were gonna get to go back to New York for a little while. Nope, he maybe he pulled me and my husband at my brand new baby to England also for for the duration of his shows in England as the same hotel. Was the prime purpose to strictly right for Carmen Or was it like, Okay, I'll do Carmen's album and I'll do your record as well. Yes, that's what it was. Because See, the thing is when Peter Redd first sat me down and told me the whole thing. You know, he wants you to write for Carmen election. I was like, all right, cool, but then it was like, and he's going to do a certain amount of songs in your album. That's when I was like, na, na. That's when I was like why, why, why can't I do so? Alright, So my first visit to Paisley Park one of those most shocking things that I discovered. I went in his office is connected to like Studio A, and you know, while for me Jia was sort of looking the other way, I Prince's office just look at his record collection to see like what was into. So I saw a CD player and I was shocked that Midnight Marauders was in it. I was like, oh, Prince listen, that's crazy. But what was his I q into as far as how much did he know about you? How much did he know about to all those things. He did not talk to me about native tongues, He did not talk to me about hip hop period that he knew everything about me. He knew the songs that I had released prior to coming to America, prior to coming prior to being signed too, because he knew my cool tempo ship. You know what I'm saying. He knew that. Yeah, he knew that ship. He even knew he even knew my Just Bad Productions release. And we remind our younger listening audience that the Internet was not around at the time, So this is a big deal. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he knew. He knew about me enough to be able to It wasn't just It really wasn't a cold working environment. It was gonna be a teachable moment for you money these weeks that your hair is going to be a teachable moment for you. We learned. I learned. I learned to stop fighting um fighting creativity because that entire experience with Prince was just a damn flacet flowing of creativity that I was fighting because of a general pigheaded bias of Nam hip hop and I gotta stay hip hop, and I can't. I can't get involved in any other type of influence of music to interfere with my hip hop. Prince taught me to relax, stop it. You are the hip hop. Whatever you do is going to be the core of what you want to express, but allow some of the other sources to flow through you because it's going to make you grow on a creative Exactly was there any fear or trepidation in your husband at the time in his mind that Prince was just trying to groom you to being a long line of new muse slash Prince John's No, because I was too fat. I just had a baby, right, I was thinking to say, yeah, I think, yeah, I think the baby might have saved you. Although although listen to this though he was with my Tay at the time and um he this was prior to them their their child. Um you know, Blessed Blessed the little angel in heaven. Um. Fun fact, his name was a mirror Wow Wow wow. And he had a fascination with babies because he had me bring her to a show one of the shows that he did in Earth's Court. When I had to go to England when he was doing shows at Earth's Court. And I went to the show and I had her in my arms and during the middle of during an eight bar break in um it was sexy, sexy, mf right, he came to the side of the stage and was like, go do eight bars right now. I'm like what, I had the baby in my arms. He was like, give me the baby. Yeah, really, that's crazy, he said, give me the baby. So I handed him Charlene. So he stands on at the side of the stage with Charlene and he's like, ahead, go do eight bars. So when I went out there, I totally blacked out. Did eight bars because it was shocked and it was fair and it was just like I went, I did the eight bars, I came back off, he handed me the baby. He ran back out and continue. And these are the things that he tot. He really encouraged me to conquer any fears that I may have had, whether it being performing or whether it being creating. And pancakes are a real thing. Pancakes are a real thing. That pancakes are a real thing. Pcakes. Yes, he made me the pancakes dressed as Prince where everything comes out of pancakes in this particular episode. Oh my god, it was really it was. It was so strange, but but I didn't realize. I didn't make the connection until years later when I was watching The Chappelle Show and then I was like and then I was like, holy ship, he does this pancake ship? Does this mean more that you were actually in the studio with Carbon Electra, like you had to dude, she wrote everything go. So what is that like? Because this is the first time I want to ask about all that now? No, right, okay, So for those who don't know, and one of the strangest what was what was the old boy's name that Jane Finds used to be married to? He Turner would like colorized all his classics and right, so for Prince fans, he took the door reels and redid a door with Karmen called all that and yeah, it didn't go down to too well. But what was it like working with Karma Karma Karmen at the time period? I mean, you you basically built her, You built it was. It was fun. It was fun. She's she's absolutely um, she's she was actually she was actually the hip hop fan in the room. Wow, really yeah, because because where's Carmen from? I can't remember, but it was ghetto as fun really really really yeah, like it was. I mean, she didn't come in the door as that image or that name. So during this period you're getting to know her as whatever. What is her? What is a real common Electric? Dam It's right? Damn? How did you know that? Because I got Google bitch that already they made comfortable Google search that came from a recalled memory paid does it say where she's from? Which I'm working on that as ok, yeah, because he had just she's from Sharonville, Ohio exact. Lad, there you go. She was like the first Labbering Electric. She could have been the first Nicki Minaje at this vis exactly. Well he tried it. Let's see what I'm saying, is I remember that she was from someplace that that wasn't you know, kaity toity, you know, pretty city. She was from someplace rough. And that's from speaking to her and and and developing a friendship and a relationship to this Damian common election were cool to this, you know what I'm saying, which is so dope, but to this day, and that's that was the rat fan and that was the real hip hop fan in the in the in the room. Is that when she knew everything, she knew everything she knew, I could tell she was a rock him fan, like you know wow, yeah, which is which is another reason why like which is another reason why she caught my ship like this like this, and I right, I don't write specifically to cater to uh people that can't breathe, you know what I'm saying, Like, I write specifically intricate. I write in a manner in which I don't want people to be able to recite my line. Yeah, that's how I write, you know, I specifically right complicated double double because I still can't say the word merorily exactly. You can't say the bergier either. Oh my god, Terley Patrick, what Yeah? She she? I'm that girl is incredible. She's and it's like she's not the first person. She's not the first woman to have although it might be the first woman with her lyrics written by a woman. The first woman is romen with her lyrics written by another woman. That might be the first, you know exactly, but she caught everything she caught And that's why I bet you when you heard get on right, I bet you when you heard that song you said to yourself that sounds like, well me, no, I mean you know I knew that someone. I believe that at the time, the same could be safe for Tony m there there it was like the DNA was real hip hop at the time, like what you were doing, where rock Him was doing, what Kane was doing, like all that. I am big bin tameter. But you know so yes, um moan so in your transition to radio, how awkward was it at the time in doing that? All I didn't Again, I can't. I can't even say divergiax. So you know I'll be okay, just hold on. I just turned it into a different bird. It's like there should be no reason why I know Syrian, I know Sira. No, okay, I would just say I like it nice you Steve Barton, there you good run drings on the phone for you? Shut up? Man? Wow? What or in proper nouns that a mirror does not know how to say? Very caricature? Best wedding gift ever, you're so loud and wrong, so loud, go loud, proud, and you said that loudly. It was me and my wife at his wedding. They gave everybody their own caricature. You know what I was like? What I was like, what the cricature? You need to teach these guys? Maybe some English lessons? Yeah, I am big contameter? What the fuck? Go ahead? Yeah? But the thing is money, is that assuming that you didn't go to communication school to learn to do this in front sale and back sale or whatever. See, I'm forgetting the terms for radio? How how much crash course did it take for you to master it? It was like night school And honestly a whole sitcom could be made out of night school on radio, actually learning how to broadcast during the unsociable hours of the morning to the point, to the point. And it was me and Ms Jones together, but it was Mr Jones. You started in Philly. No, we both started at Hot ninety seven in New York. Okay, Okay? And Steve Smith? Who how did that come from? Who are forered that? How did it come to be? They had and they had ed Andre in the morning. They had funk Master flex. They had Angie from whatever station it was before flipped and they kept Angie and uh, somebody's bright idea to Steve Smith, who was the person that foot the station, was like, you should seek out some other bona fide potential personalities that you think would fit. My manager got the call to bring me in to meet with Steve Smith. I went and he said how do you feel about being on the radio? And I said for why? Uh? Why? Why would I want to be on the radio, because you know, at the time, are you still were you eat? Were you auditioning still? Or you were just like the one one acting thing that I'm out was that before I'm trying to put the timeline together doing what now acting? What did miss acting? Because she did when you did the Who's the Man? And strapped strapped? Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Yeah, um yeah, I mean that type of stuff was happening. I was still recording music, you know. So it's like, what do I want to be in a radio for? I know nothing about being on the radio. Steve Swistle is like, I will teach you and I will get your FCC license for you. What the heck is an FCC license? Okay? I was going to ask that and do we need it? But you know you don't. But you on on terrestrial radio, you had to have a sec license back in the day to pronounce terrestrial radio. Yeah, I was going to skip that word because you know, and where you and where you got secrets, because I know sometimes seeing radio they let you come in at night too, because they want to surprise everybody and be like, hey and money Love is now to the radio station. Yeah, they didn't announce us as announctive that they were training us. And let me tell you something, me and miss Jones would be messing up badly at nighttime. They'd they'd be dead there for like forty five minutes and then and then the mics will be up and we're talking about I hate that God. I went out with him and he was such a piece of ship and did it. And then she get a phone call like, uh, you guys have the microphone on like we were doing the dumb ship at nighttime. It was like, you know, three four o'clock in the morning, and me and miss Jones was just sucking up badly. Well, I considered this to be a lucky opportunity because you know, I'm on a platform on my heart, but I kind of have some say in who I get to interview, and I tend to gravitate to my tribe and who I like and who I know. Um, I've given a bunch of news to people that don't No, no, no, I didn't even get there yet. But in in doing to rest trio, doing trust, I don't know, it's just anything more than what you say. Poor syllables is killing me right now. And doing terrestrial terrestrial extra terrestrial radio, terrestrial radio. You don't necessarily have a say in not even who you play, but who you interview and all those things. So how do you handle when you're you know, if you're five six years in and you're interviewing an artists that you are indifferent on or you don't know even now, Like if NBA nothing against NBA, young boy, I'm just picking the one one Z name that everyone knows. Like how much research do you have or do your producers already write the questions out or no? If you just go off the lead sheet what they tell you know, you you you you got to read up on it. If it's something, if it's a person that you don't particularly care for, but you know an interview is demanded of that person because of whatever is going on. Uh, they got something new coming out they have a project or whatever, blah blah blah, whatever it is that makes sense. You have to read up on him and do a little history so that you can prepare your questions. Doesn't matter if you like him or not. You gotta put your personal ship behind you. Which is why I couldn't understand that Penis Morgan guy. That was Yeah, that's called white privilege. But that's another conversation. Uh well, it's also male toxic. I didn't realize that he. I didn't even realize that he had a relationship with Megan Marco. Tried sociopathic lower scale, but sociopathic narcissist is what that person is. Penis my Penis Myers. Yes, yes, Penis Morgan. You know what? You know what? I said something. I was having a conversation with my oldest daughter about it, right, and I said to her, I was like, if I had to give you a quick analogy of what that whole situation was between the Penis Morgan guy and mego Megan Marco, it would be this. Remember back in the days when a girl were brought past a bunch of guys. He'd be like, baby, what's up, what's up? And you don't answer, and then the guy goes, fuck you there, bitched, that's that. That's what there was. Yes, now got you got curved? Yeah, because she didn't show up today. She met Harry at night. That's that. Who am hair appears? Poor guy? Okay, let's get into it. Oh no, the thing is I don't know the stuff. I okay. It's perfect that she's sitting here because she is the reason why the ship went viral. Well yeah, because story well yes, because as Mody said, we were on we were on the morning show together and it was funny because we knew Jeezy was coming. But everybody was really kind of more scared of what I was going to say to him, and I thought that was the fascinating part. Everybody was preparing me, like like, you know, don't say this because at the time. Let me let me just add at the time that if y'all think, like we're on at least what episode one one right now? If y'all think Lie is unhinged on this show, well not yet. He's the only tying to know that. With routine Jailey like talk shit about jay Z. I'm sorry, I can't stop. Last Money was there that day too, where I got warned about us on jay Z on the phone, and the problem was in the mirror, you know. The real problem was that I was like a whole roots warrior chick, right, So I was just like and I was, you're about to stop the bag like it's true, it's true, person and say that no. Yeah, but at the time, that was when the Roots was on deaf Jam and as we know all PITP hop fans, no, he didn't really do much for the Roots brand, and I was like, what the funk? So, yes, I asked him those questions. But anyway and anyway, so back to jay Z though, Yeah, so I was the one that was the girl that would you know, crush fifty cent CDs live on the air and stuff like that, because I was just like, what is this ship is killing the black community? That money would even pull me to the side and say like, you know, be calm when he comes, just let him talk blah blah blah blah. Okay, Mony cool cool Mony. So but then he comes and I'm cool. I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. And this is this is a period where NAS had the one Hip Hop is Dead album, Yes, Yes, and um now Mony This is where you pick up the conversation. Tell me how keep going? I will, I'll chime in. But I was doing Okay, So we're talking about hip hop and I cannot remember how Pooch how he started the conversation about hip hop being dead. Mony, it was like she got the holy hip hop spirit and she was like, yeah, hip hop is dead. Now. Jeez didn't like that. Now, Okay, now I need to stop here. Okay, correct me. Yes, who's you brought something about? You know? How do you feel? He asked Jeezy the question how do you feel about Naz's new album and his saying that hip hop is dead? And so Jez basically said, well, I feel like, how can you really say at Like, I don't really think that that's accurate to say that, because that's how that's how I make my living, That's how a lot of us are making our living. We got stuff to say still, and so then I then jumped in on us and he was He was like, who is he to say that? And I was like, well, I think that what nas is trying to say in that analogy is that once upon a time there was there there were several aspects of hip hop that we're all getting light. All of them were getting light. It wasn't it was the gangster stuff. It's the political stuff. It's the happy we just hit a party type stuff, and definitely stuff getting played on the radio, right, and then the more commercial stuff. It was it was all of those aspects of hip hop that we're all getting equal light. And I think what Nas was trying to say at this time, and this is me talking to Jez, so I think what Nas is trying to say at this time is that right now, it's all one sided. It's all about the street life and and and and and the bitches and the and and and the money and the cars and this and that, and that's not everything. So the aspect of hip hops multifaceted self is dead right now. I think that's what Nas is trying to say in that analogy. Yes, And at this time Jez was not ready for that intellectual breakdown. And at at this moment, I'm not sure. I think me and we were not sure due to his response to Mony and mony, you break down the response because again, okay, so then after that, so then after that he was like he kind of got animated in his speech pattern and was like, well, you know, you got a whole different type of appreciation of hip hop, ain't you from England? And so then I was like, so this is when me and Poosh realized he don't know who he talking to right now? Yes, well that's because she said that said it. I was just I said it on the mic. I was like, who you know who you're talking to right now? Right? I swear to god, he didn't say Mony Love. He was like, yeah, I don't think you knew that you were that mony Love. Yeah, he was like, you got a whole different appreciation to you know what. You know, we we came up listening to something else and in my head, I'm saying to myself, dude, you're not that much younger than me, Like that's that's not gonna fly. You're not that much younger. It's not that big of a difference. And yes, I came up in in uh in England, but it's the same hip hop. So basically we should we should be pulling from the same water, is the same streams, let me interrupt. To his credit, not to his credit, but hip hop generations. It's like, if you're before the five or after the five is night and day. So me being born in seventy one, like anyone born after seventy five is almost like you might they might as well be twenty years younger. You know why that doesn't make sense to me. I'm gonna tell you what. Excep An has a like a savant knowledge of music. But anyone else I know, seventy eight, I might as well be talking to someone board. As I listened to you, as I sit here and I listened to you say that, I'm going to say this, I now have an appreciation for that factor. And so now right now I'll say, you know what, he really could have been on some different for real, genuinely on a different planes and pulled from a different stream. But back then I was looking at it like, dude, you're not getting a young card. You're not that much younger than me. We should have been pulling from the same streams. Why are you not understanding this? Why are you not understanding Nazis analogy? Why are you not understanding it? That's where my head was at that moment, And then it was it was worsened. It was worsened because I am I don't do well with over talking men, right I don't do what how are you on this show? She's just again we all talk over each other's. When his ass stood up though, because that's the part I was trying to remember. I was like, that's the part when I was like, wait, what's what's going on? Why are you staying to get physical? No, he was about to know he's about the roll he was he was. He was like, well, who is not asked to say this anyway? And at that point, okay, okay, okay, so okay, so y'all remember Kim Wayne's and her Mrs Jenkins, uh right, right, and you heard it from me, Oh, don't you talk about miss Jenks. Don't okay. She started crying, okay, okay, don't talk about don't don't talk don't don't talk about nas. Don't do that, don't do that, don't do that. And so that's a bad idea. And so he stood up and was like, who is nas to say this? And I was like, oh, oh, and will tell you when I hit that note of the oh, it's a problem. When I when you hear me say oh I thought it was hip hop? Was it a nas is hip hop? He was like, donas guns? And then I was like, wait when he was like uh when he was to say that, and I was like, somebody that's been here for a very long time and have streibility when he have street credibility, don guns got niggers in the beds. And I was like, and at that point, if you watch the video, you will hear me mumbling on the mic and low moto tone voice, It's dead. You just killed hip hop right now? It's dead, right now, It's right. It's dead right now. With everything you're saying right now is dead. You just killed it. You just stabbed it, you just shot it, you just killed it. You see you hear me saying that at that point. Underneath Now, in hindsight, I look back at it and I'm like, what I was trying to relay to Jez and that interview is it was simply that the analogy that Nas was making wasn't it wasn't to be disrespectful towards him and his sector, the hip hop. Yeah, it wasn't. It wasn't anything to disrespect that it was. It was something that was It was analogy that was made to bring light to the fact that all the facets of hip hop music, what we're not being given and shown the same light and the same level of respect at that moment in time. That's all NAS was saying with that analogy at that time. But Jesus took offense, you know. And and I, in hindsight, I understand he took offense. He took it personally like it was a dig at him, right, So I get that part. Also, perhaps the way that I was speaking in because I was calling him brother, and I was trying to be polite and respectful while I was speaking to him. He wasn't trying to hit, he wasn't trying to hear that. I think that's probably just ego and Bravado being young. And I was also trying to trying to have a teachable moment with him as far as to say, protect all the facets of hip hop today. Otherwise, in ten fifteen years time, when the new kids on the block come up and you're not this jeezy that you are now, which is the it guy when you when it's ten fifteen years later, then new guys can push your ship to to the to the guard in the garbage cancer. When I'm trying to have a moment with you now to understand how important it is to preserve all the elements and all the facets of it so that you can have a place to survive ten fifteen years later, you know what I'm saying. And it just it just it just wasn't coming. It wasn't was across Jesus, you know, don't don't forget back then. He if you remember when, like I think a month before he was I mean, it was clearly a fifty cent troll move, but he was talking about like, you know, I'm gonna meet with John McCain and see what he's about. This was like I remember that he was. He was a musical guest on SNL. I think in September October two thousand and eight. It was kind of just putting out there, like, you know, just because Obama's blacked on me on my vote for him, so I'm gonna see what John McCain has. You know, he had his arm around John McCain to SNL. It was like, I'm gonna go to lunch with them, see what he's about, and selling Snowman shirts two little black kids, and I don't remember. That's when I had a problem. I mean, he's cool now, you know, but you know, in essence. Laiah felt the whole thing. Did not know she was filming it. Okay, Laia ran out of the room as soon as that goddamn interview was over, and she loaded that ship to every possible blog in the world at that time, and that ship went viral like a move so quickly. And that's crazy. Wait, here's the here's the crazy crazier part. Nobody knows. I don't even know if you knew this layer. Nobody knows that I had been undergoing a renegotiation with the radio station six months prior to that day, and that day was d day when I had to make a decision or whether I was going to accept the contract that they gave me. And what it was was, they were a little piece of wording in that contract that I did not agree with, which said that in order for me to do anything using my face, my name, how did you guys say, caricature, caricature, Okay, using my face, name, my caricature. Yeah, that's that's radio. That's that's It wasn't used to celebrities. So it was just regular basically anything to do with my voice, anything to do with myself. If I wanted to write a book, if I wanted to be in a movie anything, I would have to go to the radio station for permission. And that that was the only problem with the contract that I had. The money was great, We were at a good place with all with everything except that that. And my my lawyers were like, could we just change this wording to something that is of a nature saying whatever that it is that I have in the works of projects, a book, or whatever it is, the station will be. It will be made sure that the station knows about this, and they afford that it's mutually agreed upon as far as it's nothing to hinder the name. It's yeah, you know what I'm saying, Like I'm not posing for Playboy. You know what I'm saying, much to the dismay of many, but I'm not flow sorry, you know what I'm saying that The bottom line is my lawyer was like, can we put some word in like that in it? They were like no. So this day that when just this Jez interview happened, was the last day. As soon as I got as soon as we signed off, I had to go into the office, sit down with them, box them, are you prepared to change the wording just on that little part. They said, no, you're not. And then I said, well, I cannot sign this document. I left that. I left that, I left that, I left that office. I left that office that day at eleven thirty. By one o'clock in the afternoon, my voice was completely stripped from the radio station. They cleaned up real quick. And so that that turned in to Jeezy got me fired. Yes, that is yeah, that turned into that Jeezy got me fight. And I never corrected it. I let it be. I never corrected it. Have you seen him since? I have not seen him since. But what's really interesting is he worked on a song and he worked with the producer called um Ko Ko is my child, uh, my son's godfather. And my daughter was in Atlanta at the time. Uh huh. And my daughter sang on a song called the Greatest, which was on one of Jeezy's mixtapes. My child. Yeah, yeah, But what's what's crazy? She said she met him at what is Diddy's at the Revolts convention in two thousand and sixteen, I think it is, and she said that she said to him, you know, I sang on that song blah blah blah blah blah, and it was she sang on it, and uh. He asked the story as he asked Kao. You know, Kao told him who it wasn't sang on it. Whatever, And he asked Ko to put somebody else on it, like a known person or whatever. Take my daughter off a bit, and Chao said, no, the song comes with her. So if you're going to use this, the song comes with her. And so he kept it on his mixtape, but he never put it on his album. My daughter was a little bit, you know, she was a little crushed, crushed about that. And I felt bad about it too because I'm like, damn, it's because of me, and you know, but but at the end of the day, it is what it is. You know, You'll live, Charlena. I'm not going back on anything because they threw me under the bus after that interview. The way how the way how it went was it turned into the woman was the idiot. Oh, the woman she was off as soon as I walked in, you know, he called Nasa, had a conversation with nas. Nas called me and was like, don't worry about it, don't worry about it. Just don't worry about it, all right. I'm not gonna tell you what the conversation was between me and Jeez. But yeah, he did reach out to me, And in my head, I'm saying to myself, get damn right he reached out to you because that sounded ill. Yeah, all of that do we got people in the fed dude, the like dude, it sounded it sounded ill, So you're damn right. He made sure that the man made sure that he called the other man to have a conversation, right, and then throw the woman under the bus. Oh, she was off as soon as I walked in. Anyway, something she something was about her was off in the faces him saying this is saying that about you, yea, which was not that, which was the opposite. You know, I don't you know, I don't know. I don't know what type of females at that time he was used to having conversations with. And I don't know if perhaps, Mike, I don't know if perhaps my conversation may have been a little to quote unquote uppity in his eyes at that time. You know. But but the bottom line is the Jez that I see today is exactly who I thought I was talking to. It's exactly who I was trying to reach talking to him. I knew I wasn't talking to him back then, but I knew that that person was going to h yeah yeah, and I was trying to talk to that person. Yeah, So that that's basically what that was. I've never seen him since then. Is that crazy? I've never bumped into him, I've never know. Yeah, yeah, I've never seen him since then. How long ago was that? Was that? Eighteen years ago? Don't do that? When was it? Yeah? That was yeah? Oh eight If I was there was okay, no, it wasn't no, no, no, no. I left that station in February of two thousand seven. That was two thousand seven. Yeah, that was two thousand seven. My final question is, now that you're at the state in in in your life and all that you've achieved in anything, is there anything that you've yet to do? Do you get these? Do you do you get? Uh? Is there an itch that you I want to scratch? As far as like aside from the one? I'm sorry? Second to last question, Ultra, let's say when right, Wow, you went there? Yeah, Ultra real quick, so Ultra not tell you what was it? Like? She's so awesome, She's a tiny little powerhouse person. Oh my god, ult to say, opens her mouth and it's like she has a superpower. It's like she opens her mouth and everything turns into a um a tornado as soon as she opens her mouth, and she's so tiny, she's a small little package of of just. Ever, as soon as she opens out, she's singing on. I was just saying, declared, she's the one that singing on ring my bellutely and just And it was fun working She's a big house singer, like she's legendary singer, huge legendary. I was so grateful to be able to work with her. And again this comes from the mindset of not getting in my own way as far as creativity, you know what I mean, Yeah, let me just ask because I know you've got your last question. I just thought of something too. Can you mo as a as a legend in this game and as a as a commentator as well, can you talk about like who some of the young folks, because I know you tuned into the young focus as well, but like who are you listening to and the younger sisters as well when it comes to MCS. Because I don't want to just ask you about female MCS, but I was just curious. Honestly, I'm trying. I'm trying to listen to a lot more. I tune a lot of it out. My kids are annoying, um but for the sake of trying not to um alienate them, I do make a conscious effort to give them car time when we're in the car and car DJ time so they could play stuff. But the only thing that I can't get past, and it's like, I try not to be this hypocrite, is there was a period of time where we were cursing in our music and there were curses, and there'd be curses. But for some reason, what is this? What is it? I don't It's like every other freaking word, and I didn't. I do experiments. I do experiments in the car all the time where I'm like, okay, go ahead, play your stuff. Lacey's twelve, that's my youngest, and I'll be like, all right, play your stuff. And it's like put you give me a head and the bitch and and I'm like and I'm like, I'm not approude. We've said curses. You know what I'm saying, Get an app all day. That's our error. And like we have stuff, but it's just it's just like it's like I don't get a break. It's like I don't get a break. But wait, since you're talking about your kids, which one of your kids has sort of inherited your your taste because a lot of I'm always curious on how hip hop parents whereised their kids, Like do their kids know who they are? Are the exact opposite, you know, like which one has your taste? Like you can stop now and be like, okay, this this one, you know knows the oldest one, and it's by defol because she everything. I really didn't. She just was around. It was it was just a natural thing with her, the oldest one, and she's thirty now. The rest of them they're just they're they're into what they're into. And I try to listen. I do, and I do it often because I don't want there to be too much separation between us. I understand and appreciate that the times have changed and that what they listened to is vastly different from what I did. I mean, I used to be in the car with the two oldest girls, and I used to put on a freeway. Even though what we do is wrong and my daughter that's now gonna be. She'd be in the car seat in the back, in the in the baby seat, and then my oldest would be in the shotgun with me, and she and I would go even though what we do is and then the baby would go, oh, you know we have that. You know what I'm saying. Um, the two youngest my son is eighteen and then my youngest daughter is twelve. They're into their they're into their own thing. There are those moments where they join in with with what I like to listen to, but they're far and few, like, yeah, we like old school, we like Beyonce right. No, more than anything, they bond with me on some rock, Like my kids know food Fighters, they know Nirvana songs, they know Stone Sample pilots, they know yeah they're because I'm a rock head too, so they know that stuff more than they know that a lot of the hip hop that I grew up listening to Radio Hio. Absolutely, absolutely, I'm surprised you say cold totally, Yeah, but more so my twelve year old nose Incubus like the back of her hands, and that's a yeah. I am a huge Incubus fan. Never miss a show. Yeah, Ben, I, Ben and I are tight, and it's partly because of you. It's partly because of you because you and I have family, so they when when when when I reached out to him one time, he was like, oh my god, you have to come to the show. And ever since then, I've never missed a show. Ben and I are t type damn this, what's up? What's up? Wait? I can't I have one last question, but I have to because I gotta ask about how did how did how did the alumni form? I can't let you. Yeah, yeah, you're supergroup uh Special Led chop Rock, Uh, Dana Dane and I have to say Dave Locus Dave Locus because he just text me and said make sure he get his shout out Dave Locus. No he didn't, Wow, Dann Dave please answer well, um, Dave was already managing quam um. I don't know how they all got this idea together, but they did. I was the last person to be called. Uh kuam a text me and said he needed to talk to me about something. Called me, spoke to me about the concept. Would I be interested? Right? Yeah, I'd be interested? Um And it was It was very quickly put together after that and we started doing shows almost immediately. But here's the thing, right, still your money, I'm playing. I'm playing now something new happens as every show, every show, something new happens because they it's like the A team. There's always some ship. It's you know, the stuck at the more because he had to go get some sneakers or Chub got a flat twenty one miles out and we need to send the van to go get him. Dana uh done drank off the whole damn green room already before we by the how we get on? Stay age man? Well, y'all sound like being go along and the traveling off stuff. Listen when I listen when I tell you that this is the most glorified group of misfits ever, but it works. And how how good does it feel to be able to do that? Though? Because it was a time when like artists like y'all, like I feel like it was a resurgence of doing shows and stuff. I mean, even though it's COVID now, but it just feels good to be able to watch y'all. So how good does it feel to be able to do all these ships? Feels great? Because here's the thing a there. We don't get on and I do a set of songs and then I get off, and then Chubb comes on and does a set of songs, and then he gets up. It is absolutely I'm doing. We're all on listen, We're all on stage doing ad libs in each other's songs, be in each other's hype. Man, check this out. I sing, excuse me not saying I scat the horn solo and treat him right. Every show I scat, I scat the entire horn solo of treat them right. Everything between the five of you, like with all your respective hits and the well loved classic album cuts. That's that's a very tight, damn near could could be near two hour extravaganza. You know, it is easily we condense it because a lot of shows, whether we get on the bill, we only get like you know, it might be twenty minutes, thirty minutes or something like that. We have to condense the show so we tailor make it according to whatever billing we're on. And then please let us not forget we have a DJ set in the middle of our show because DJ tap Money that is our DJ. No, he doesn't happen. Well, he does, but it's on his belly now, oh damn. Anyway, some way I know that it's because he does a belly he lifts a shirt up as part of his DJ set and he's moved the fade with his belly. So yeah, okay yo, I should remind everybody guys, mony's closing out women's history mom. And I just want to say, it's so perfect because I don't think people give you flowers enough and I'm so glad that you had to stand with us like flowers, like flowers, flowers so much. No, man, I did not know that you know, your your I guess kind of the tentacles of your career when as far as they did. And this is the first time I'm hearing into these stories, you know what I mean. This is amazing, Like you really, you really were an inspiration and you know again, just in a word or two for me, I was like, man, I love that song, man, that was the one. I love that song, And um, that's the only time Prince got hip hop right for me. And the fact he did it with you, I think that says a lot about you. Definitely intertwined a lot. I'm really glad that you guys had had me on a mayor. One of my fondest memories of the Roots is um I pledged myself to be their sister, okay, and um I was so serious about being sister to the Roots that when they won Grammys that year, um I drove by myself from New York to Philly at nighttime by myself to go to their Grammy party. Act. Uh that was a fun night. Yeah, action and adventure. Yeah. No, only only because that was the night where they where they played the clip of the winning And then, as my girlfriend at the time'm like, wait, what does in theory mean? And she's like, that means he didn't deserve to win it. And I was like, wait, did Mobi just say in theory the Roots. She's like, yes, he did, and I was like, I've never I've never, Yeah, I mean no, no no, no we he we. I said that in an interview once when he he said on the Red Carpet that he loved Buster Rhymes so much that even if Buster Rhymes is not the winner of that night, that he's going to clear Buster Rhymes the winner. So, of course, you know when he's reading off the nominees and says and the winner is. I was in the audience like, Oh, we're not gonna win. We're not gonna win. We're not gonna win. And then everyone jumped up. I was like, oh said we won. I didn't hear what he said. So when we watched the clip that night, and he's like, and the winner is in theory the roots and I was like, what does that mean? And they're like, funck movie. I means he he didn't think you deserved it like you we wanted. And that's just that's when I started throwing my Grammys in the bathroom and you know, and no one feels like to get in a fight with Moby. Yeah, that kind of started that. That that planted the seed of me like not wanting praise and I don't deserve this ship. That like that really didn't number one me, Like he he gave me a heartfelt, uh email apology once I told a friend of his, like, you know what, how bad that not hurt me, but just affected me to the point where I was it different to that ship and he felt really bad about it, so he apologized. But yeah, that night I had a whole you know, a whole another view of that Grammy party, Like I never I hated flowers at that moment. So that's that's the origin of the flower and a mirror's anti flower movement. But we're back, Gracie. He's my first time hearing any of these stories. What's funny, he didn't even never knew that ship. He didn't even talked about the real fight that went down at the party. But we'll talk about that later. That ship was ill. The fight, it was, yes, mother to shoot the couple fight, couple against couple, Routes members, RUTS member and girlfriend and yeah, yeah, fahi yo, can I tell it? Yes, your real quick? It wasnt Was this the one that was married in the band? Yeah yeah it was, Yeah, yeah he was married. They were fighting the first keyboard player, that's what they remember. It was the first keyboard player and and girlfriend. And yeah first the new one and his gangster wife. Alright, I've done and mony s he wasna love. I'm so oh my god, oh my god, whoa yeah, I did not know this. Okay, revelations you got a story storage episode one. Can we is this permission? Because because you said it on tape? Yeah, I don't see why not? Oh yoh thanks, thanks, thank you, Mom, appreciate thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Money love Uh this quest Supreme hear Yeah, this is the perfect way to end the show. Yeah, we'll see you next ground on Supreme. Thank you very much. Hey, this is Sugar Steve. Make sure you should up with us on Instagram at q l s. Let us know what we think it should be next to sit down with us. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast us Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio. 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