This week's guests on Questlove Supreme are known as the founding members of the highly successful group, The 5th Dimension. Marilyn McCoo and Billy Davis would move on from the group to become what Quest's calls "the first couple of Pop and Soul" making numerous hits while spreading love and joy. Listen as they break down fifty two years of marriage, music and their appearance in the Quest's directorial debut, Summer of Soul.
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Question Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio. Ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Quest Love Supreme. I'm who's Questlove. We got to Yeah, we still got Team Supreme with us. Yeah. Uh, how are you doing good? Doing good? From the east, from the East Coast? So well, I'm looking forward. Yeah, wait, you're you're in the East Coast. Yes, I'm doing I told you. It's the vaccinated visit, Betty. Everybody vaccinated. Yes, Mama, Daddy, everybody, welcome back, Welcome back home. I'm paid Bill you Okay, I'm also vaccinated. I feel fantastic. All right, fantacolo. You're cool. I'm good man. I'm good man, enjoying Uh, some grilled chicken and a salad. Nice. I'm not trying to live better, you know. I'm more on day twelve of salad. Just salad. Uh. What's up? Uh, Steve, how's it going. I'll be the only honest one here and say I am stressed out this anyway. I want to get this done. No, we're not stressed out. We're putting good vibrations out there. Um. I will say that our distinguished guests are the founding members of the legendary Grammy Award winning Fifth Dimension Um. Of course, during the mid seventies, our guests left the group and peer down to a duo released several Grammy caliber songs like the Inescapable, You don't have to be a star to be in My Show Your Love. I hope we get the Loving Time Shine on Silver Moon, plenty other seven Grammy nominations in total. UM. I would actually paraphrase and say that they are They are Jane Beyonce are the Billy and Merriman McCoo of of now, not the opposite that they are the jade. They are absolute happiness and enjoy. I consider them the first couple of of of pop and soul. Their marriage has been strong for fifty plus, uh, fifty plus years. I believed coming this that is amazing. And they're still releasing music Ladies and Gentlemen, which is incredible. Uh. They released a new collection of Lennon McCartney compositions, aptletly titled Blackbird Songs that were inspired by the turbulent experiences that we've been through the last year or so. What else can I say? Oh not not to mention they are a vital part of the UH. I hear it's an excellent documentary, uh about Cultural Festival nineteen nine. I hear it's good, you know anyway, Really it comes out this week, comes out this week. That's amazing, ladies and gentleman. He's welcome the legendary, the legendary Billy Davis Jr. And Marilyn McCoo to quest left, Sup, thank you, thank you to be here with you all. Listen, you said you heard about the document ory being good. You heard right. Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna go see it for myself. All those things you're saying about us. How much do we owe you? I owe you guys. I owe you guys. I really really really do love you guys. Actually, you know what the one story? I don't. I know a lot about you guys, But can you guys describe I know that you guys were acquaintances before you got married, of course, like no one starts off being married and then starts, you know, with friends. Can you guys describe the first time that you met each other? Do you guys remember the first day you met each other? I don't. You don't remember the first day. It's like the newly white game was to hit him on the head. Well, don't forget. Don't forget. It was fifty some years and I was breaking. You're trying to say, he gotta gave us my take, But we got married. I was never going to speak to him again. And guess what. I was walking down the aisle and I looked into his face and I saw red eyes. Bachelor. Okay, I get it, I get it. You remember up to that, right to that point. Okay, before we before we met, I have been hearing about this guy from St. Louis because the Mont McLamore from the group and from the group, we're all from St. Louis, and they were talking about this guy named June Bud who was coming out from St. Louis looking for a record deal, and that he could say, right, and that's June. But I see you. So you're not from St. Louis. Yes, yeah, Mr St. Louis. Yeah yeah. So so the group was formed by and we should also note that, uh, I'm not Ron. I'm sorry Lamon maclamore. Is you did a week baby, the legendary Beauty of the Week, Jet Beauty of the Week. He's he's a photographer or something. He was the original Instagram shut up. Yea even even to like when whenever Jet went uh. I don't know when Jet stopped uh publication, but he went to the very end. So yes, shut out. The mom took all the pitches of all of them, but most of the pictures of that, the women in the bathing suits in the middle of yet yes career, even at the height of fifth to mention them, like right he was he was still doing that. Yeah, how can one juggle both and still and still do that. I'm also in the mind state that once you're in the fifth dimension, you're touring all over like nine months out of the year. But he was able to maintain both on a weekly basis. Yes, yes, yes, I mean he would. I don't know just how his setup was, but he was definitely still doing it. You know. It's still making our rehearsals. And sometimes when we would be out of town, he would be off and we had a day off or something, he would find some young lady to shoot, you know it, take take out some bad shooters, you know, even his own agent. That's incredible. Yes, yes, yes. One of the one of the running jokes any time that you guys were on any show was finding uh Lamont a wife. That's always been like the running joke in any Fifth Dimension interview, like was this was this bachelorhood like legendary in the seventies, like pretty legendary. Yes? Yes, did he eventually get married? Yes? He did a number of years now, Okay, I was about to say no, just just based on my fifth demnium research, Like every time that was like a running joke. Did he did he get married yet? Is he still bachelor? Okay? I get it now. Well, Lamont was always the one in the mail and the group that always had these long range plans with these young ladies. You know, he would meet a young lady and the hero long range plans for her, you know. So that's that's that's why we always teach him about getting married, waiting, waiting and waited, but he finally did get married. Yes, Okay, what year did the group officially form? I know that you guys were under the name the Versatiles. It was the Versatiles, correct, that's right that we started, Yes, yes, and that was in and then why why was it changed to the Fifth Dimension? Well, um, we were getting ready to come up with this this song with our first single and the the Man, who was the head of the record company, thought that that the Versatile sounded kind of old, that we needed something edgy and new. And we all went home and uh, we were supposed to come back with with creative ideas for new a new name for the group, and ron Hownsend and his wife came up with the name the Fifth Dimension. And when we first heard it, everybody loved it and we so we voted on it, because we voted on everything in the group and Dimension one hands down. Was there like sort of a cosmic kind of definition. Was it supposed to intentionally be like psychedelic because of what the times were during that period or yeah, pretty much. You know, we were five members of the of a group. I think Ronald Man were talking about sound dimension. Well, he they decided that the fifth dimension was supposed to be the fifth dimension was sound, So he said, okay, that makes sense. Yeah, okay, I see. Did you guys at all? I know that um Bell Records was a label um closely associated with Arthur Shimpkin and also with I believe Clive Davis started or at least worked there at that time period. Did you guys work with him at all or have any dealings with him or was he at Columbia by this point. Actually, we well we didn't work with well, we did, we did what we did work, but just for a minute, you know, actually a Soul City was the was the name of the label, and that was the one that started the group. And then when and then Bell Records came at Larry you remember that, Yeah, I know, I know that name. Yes, yeah, Larry you Tall actually started Bell Records and the fifth Dimension was still there. And then uh, then some transitions took place and Clive Davis came in and right, and when he came in, he turned it into Arista correct, exactly right, Okay, I see now, I see now I think one of them. I think one of the guys that Bill Records was Ir Bagel. Bagel, Yes, he worked with he worked with Larry yeah, yeah, in the very evening. Yeah, in the beginning of the group. Who decided the direction because you guys had a really somewhat sophisticated, elegant, uh sound, sort of a step ahead of I guess at the time like Motown was was the leader of a more classier version of the soul. But you guys were definitely kind of a step ahead of that, like who decided the direction of the group and how do you guys approach your creativity. Well, one of the things that happened is when we first started the group, and and and and and called ourselves as versus those But we did that because we were all different. All of those were different singers. I was more gospel R and V blues, Maryland was more pop, and Ronald was more operatic sounding, Fluence was more pop, and the Mom was more of a base kind of singer, and and and and and more of a pop sing So when we we we decided, when we sawed it in divers of Me, we lent to it as more of a jazz kind of opportunity to do, to just create just different types of music. And uh, but when we got signed with Johnny Rivers, we carried that sound with us right on into the record company. And so when he suggested that we do go where you want to go, and we said, well, from the Mamas and Poppers that was a cover for us. And we said, well, you know it's not gonna sound like motown. You know, we we were we were We went into what was happening for brothers and sisters you know, and even though we now we had a different sound, that's what's the kind of music we were looking for. But he said, none, let's try this. It will be a hit. And when he said it will be a hit, well, everybody was looking for a hit, you know. You ever out of every artist want to hit it, even if it's pop, goes the weasels, you know. You know, So we did go where you want to go and it came out with more of a soul for sound, but not like the pop mamas and papers, but it created out. Okay, I see that. Um. I gotta say that. Um because of my my weird obsession with the song uh MacArthur's Park. I know that was written by a Jimmy Webb and if you kind of look at his catalog, yeah, like what's tall I'm in and all that stuff, like it's like really weird unorthodox songs, and I know that he wrote um up up in a way. So like at the time when you were approached, how did that song come into into the sphere the fifth dimension? And what with this the deciding factor that Okay, this fits us because it's it's kind of even though it's it's a hit, it's a really very weird specific song, like we're going to sing about balloons, air balloons or whatever. Like how did how did that? How did you guys come across that song? Well? You know, um uh. Mark Gordon, who was the group's manager, introduced Johnny Rivers, who who was the owner of Soul City Records, to Jimmy Webb because, uh, he was saying, we need somebody creative and new and different. And Mark had worked with Motown Records and had left Motown and it's it's a long story about how we all met. But he liked the group, he liked our direction, and he said that he wanted to manage us. So, uh so when he was talking to Johnny Rivers and he said, and Johnny said, we need somebody young, new and different. Mark said, there's a very talented young man who was trying to get some of his songs recorded at Motown. His name is Jimmy Webb. I'd like for you to meet him. And so they met, and uh, we ended up working together on our first album, which was called Go Where You Want to Go. Well, actually it ended up in calling being called and so we were we were working on some music and and there was a hot air balloon festival that took place down in Palm Springs on over a weekend, and Jimmy went down to that festival and he came back so inspired by what he had seen that he wrote a song. And he wrote this song called Up, Up and Away, talking about the balloons. And so he played the song for the group and we said, oh man, that's a wonderful song. You know, it's a happy feeling. It makes everybody want to dance and really good. You will never be a hit. Oh yeah, I just thought I was gonna be filler, like just an album, right, we thought, you know, we were still this is waiting for some motile stuff, you knowing, Man, that will never be a hit, you know, And come to found out it was. It was. It was a big smash. And then well we won four Grammy and then uh bones, how well, no bones wasn't producer on that Mark Mark Mark and Johnny Rivers one for production Grammys, and Jimmy Webb won it for the song. Now, I remember you guys previously telling me before that when you guys won the Grammy for the song, that you weren't too sure like how important the Grammys were like or if it was a big deal like in the late sixties. Were the Grammys as big of a press teach thing as we hold it now or was it just like, Oh, that's nice, we want a Grammy. What's Grammy? Exactly? That's what we bought. Well at that time, the Grammys weren't being tells, so so the record company was so excited, Oh, you all been nominated for Grammys, and we said that is so cool. What's Yeah, we didn't even know what it was, you know. And uh, but but after we won the first Grammy and behind all that excitement, the next one we were we were in line for it. Let's see. Uh, you guys mentioned Mark Gordon because I'm I'm like a fan slash efficionado of Soul Train. I know that oftentimes, like uh, if Al Wilson was on the show, uh, don would talk to Mark or um uh he was there I think during the Staple Singers episode as well. So like I'm familiar with Mark Gordon. The thing was, I didn't know that he was married to uh Florence LaRue during that time period. But I was also shocked for you guys to go to the levels and the heights that you've going to. Even in my mind, I thought, wow, they really had like a powerful white manager. How was it? How was it that Mark was able to work his magic as as a man, and you know he's managed everyone like name it, like Tony. This also probably explains why you Antoni, Orlando and Dorn also at your variety shows. Like what was Mark like as a manager that he had like further further reach than your average manager, where he can get his ex even past mainstream participants in spaces where you normally don't see black acts. Well, Mark had a lot. You know. Mark came again from the Motown background, and so I'm sure he learned a lot when he was there, and he he was running the West Coast office of Motown Records, and that's how we met him. And he was also a producer, and so we were hoping that maybe he would produce a record on the group and we would end up at Motown. But again, for one reason or another that Mark and and Motown agreed to disagree. And so Mark came and said, I'd like to manage you guys. I like I like your idea, I like the sound that you have, and I think I can do something with you. And then he and Johnny Rivers. Johnny Rivers, who was a who was more of a country singer, had some major hits, but he loved R and B and he wanted to produce some R and B music. So he came to market he said, why don't we co produce some projects together, And so that was how they ended up producing us, And that was how we ended up recording and go where you want to go and then up up in the Way, and Mark introduced Johnny to Jimmy Webb. So so Mark, Mark was a visionary in so many ways. He he was. He was definitely a good manager and he I think the popularity of the group is what kind of got him in the in the position to be able to open the doors because don't forget he was a personal manager. But but but we also had an agency opening doors to like William More, you know, without populargic, we would we would, we would we would going pop? You know, yes, And we were right in the middle of that. So all the doors were opening for they had television shows and all the all the all of the white shows that was that was that was happening. They wanted the fifth mention, So what was it ever? Um a struck? Okay, so one one of the one of the uh kind of career highlights for most black acts that I've spoken to, UM, especially that have started in the sixties, most of them were being groomed to play the copa. That was like like one thing is surviving the Apollo, the other thing is being able to play the copa, which you know, I can only imagine that that that was a prestigious thing. Um Was that necessarily a goal for this particular group or was that not? Kind of in in your radar? Everybody wanted to play the copah. Everybody wanted to play the copa. But what happened was we got there was another club in New York, well actually it was it was a club, but it was a room at the Americana Hotel. It us called the Royal Box the Box, and they ended up hiring us and we would work the Royal Box every year, right during a prim season, you know, So they knew that at that place every year, So it was three or four years straight that's where we were at. So I guess the the copa once they knew we were at the Royal Box. They never tried to book us. They never tried to book us. Blew our chance by working at the Royal Box. But you know what, it was great because because of the Royal Box, that's how we ended up with finding h Okay. So I know this legendary story, um, and it's definitely one of the highlights of summer. So could you please share our audience the circumstances that actually lead you to recording, uh, the Age of Aquarius Let the Sunshine in. And this is a show true story right right. I can't believe it, but it's amazing. I think we made it up for stage, but we came. You can't make up nothing like this, you know, no, you can't. We're working in New York. And the funny thing is that I went out the shop and and and coming back getting out of the cab, I lost my wallet and the fill in the cab. So I came upstairs in the Hotel Roman and I told mary I was looking at my post baby, I've lost my wallet, and Marylyn said, oh, well, you can forget that. You ain't gonna never see the wall of do more. And so about an hour after that, I got a phone call and the guy said, is this Billy Davids Jr. And I said, yes it is. And he said, I got your wallet the wallet, and I got all excited because he found my wallet. And I told him, I said, but just hold on to it. I'm coming to your house and and and get it. So I went to his house and and I offered him some money. He didn't want their money. So I invited him to come and see us at the Royal Box. Okay, perform him. So he took us up on that. So after the show, he came to the show, him and his wife. And after the show he came backstage and he said, man, you guys were beautiful. It's one of my love the show. He said, since you were so nice, Billy, I'd like to invite you to see our show. I said, what show. Come to find out he was one of the producers of had have been trying to get in to see hair, but I don't know how long most seats it was like it was like that was like the Hamilton's was trying to get in to see the hair. And well it was the first time they've ever seen people necking on stage, you know, so everybody was dashing. You know. But but we finally got in. He invited us over to see it and we saw this young kid by the name of Ronnie Dyson singing Aquarius and when he he he filled the auditorium with that beautiful boss of his and when he when he did that, we all heard it right then and said, we have to do that song. That's a Fifth Demension song. It's gonna be It's gonna be a hit, that's what with the first time we ever said that it's gonna be a hit. And sure enough it was the biggest record that we've ever ever recorded. That's amazing. How did it? How did it go from the stage to your song though? With that strange with the producer? Well, well, we called we called our producer who was Bones how and we said Bones, and I mean everybody. When we got together at intermission, we were all all five of us said this is gonna be a hit. So we called Bones and said, Bones, we found our next hit. And he said what's that and we said quarious. He said, well, I don't know. He said, there's a lot of people that have tried to make a hit out of that song and it hasn't one. And we said, but the fifth Division, didn't you know, how determined to record that song. So he said, well, let me let me listen to it some more and see what we can come up with. So then he came back to us a little while later, a couple of weeks later, and he said, I think I have an idea of how to make this work. And he came up with the idea of taking Aquarius and putting it together with another song, Sunshine. Yes, that's the Sunshine in, which was from the song called flash Faces, right, and by combining the two of those together, we ended up with the biggest hit of our career. Yeah. Oh so, let's the Sunshine and was not a part of hair. I didn't know that, Okay, well it was. It was a part of Hair together. Okay, just like the point. But we did with that the Sunshine In. As a matter of fact, the way that they did it in the show was that the sun Shine. Yeah, it was one of the slow and okay, the Sunshine It was upset song, right, but Bones came up with the idea of making it more joyous. And then when we were in the studio recording it, then he said, okay, the group of singing it like let the sunshine. Then he says, okay, Billy, now go and take it to church. Many. Yeah, that's amazing. On on an average how many how many gigs? What just from a touring standpoint, I know, touring from more or less like doing five straight months like living on the road never coming home like after five straight months or whatever. But could you describe to us, like what was what was the the gig circuit like during that time in around n for the group, Like how many was it mainly just one night ers or was it you know, concentrated time in America then you go to other parts of the world, like what was the average touring season like for the Fifth Dimension? Well, it's more about America, about the United States. He played a lot of college campuses. We did a lot of a lot of concerts. We dressed, we we got dressed in a lot sweaty locker room. You're coming there, you're coming there after a game, after they left from a game, and it would be lit up, you know, but you have to go in there, and you did dress and you know, the young young you know, you you get passed that you get out there, but you're worried about doing the best you can do when you get in front of that audience, you know. But yes, we we, but we did. We played clubs too. We played clubs, but we were out on the road maybe about oh boys seven to eight months out of the year. We were on the road, I mean, moving constantly. We also played Las Vegas and UH, which which a lot of the artists weren't doing, but that was one of the one of the offers that we got and UH we ended up playing the main room UH as one of the helping actspert for Frank Sinatra, And that was another way that we were reduced to the to the country at large. And then we did a lot of we did. We did a number of concerts just around around the country and a lot of riding around on buses. Right, really, okay when when you're doing uh, okay, if you're opening for Frank Sinatra. I know that um we interviewed uh the Jackson's some time ago on the show, and I know that their experience with doing Vegas was that, you know, they had to sort of expand their repertoires somewhat, do more show tunes, do more? Yeah, pretty much. So would you have to change the show specifically for Vegas audience or was it pretty consistent the same show that you would do for colleges? Were they the same for Las Vegas? Or we wouldn't do the for colleges. We would do more of our our recording majoritia that were recording material. Then we would mix mix up our show with with songs that were high rhythm, high energy, and and Billy get out there and start singing a lot of his soul things, and Florence and I through dancing and shaking. You know. It changed. It depended upon where we were working. We would we would have change. But for Vegas, we would do uh more of a production kind of a show, you know. We we we would put some production uh quality into the into the show, like uh a song that we did called Old too Old to Billy Joe, you know, and each one of us took a part so it looked like a theater piece in Vegas, and it kept the audience right there, you know, because they wanted to see what each character was doing, you know, and then after that piece, we would come up with one of the hits or something like that, you know, bring him back down to where we at, you know. So yeah, we would do that. You also know that you're one of the few acts that um, you know, doing doing a residency on Broadway. Uh is usually u a special occasion. I mean it rarely happens now, Like Bruce Springsteen, I had had a one man show recently before the pandemic warm Broadway, but you guys were definitely one of the first acts to do lack of residency there. Well, I think I'm trying to lead up to why you two are so natural when you guys got your own variety special in terms of like doing more than just performing your songs, like jokes would be you know in the show and little sketches and whatnot, Like did that prepare you for that? Especially with when you did your Broadway residency? Or we had a wonderful man by the name of Renee de Knight who worked with the group and helped helped. He taught us a lot about the entertainment business and about what made what made shows work. And Uh, we would get together and come up with with songs that Renee came up with the idea of old to Billy Jill. You remember that he was the one who realized that there were five characters and that in the song and then and we were able to put those five characters together and and do that song. And Uh. He had been with a group called the Delta Rhythm Boys, who were very, very successful uh in Europe, and he when he came and saw us and saw what we were about, he just felt like, you know, he wanted to work with us and teach us some of the things that he knew about how to make live shows really work for your audiences and how to mix the music up. And Renee. We give a lot of credit to Renee for helping to teach us about the business and about how it worked and and how to make it work. You know when you talk about when when we did that residency on Broadway, Yeah, they were working with a dancer. His name was Joe Joe Smith. You remember Joe Joe Smith. I can't say I've heard of him, Okay, Well, Joe Joe Smith had a dancing company and one of the members of his dancing dancing company was a young woman by the name of Debbie Allen. And that was how we met Debbie and we when we did our residency, we were on Broadway for a month and we had came up with the idea of having a dancing company be our opening for the show, because again, it was a nice balance and a difference of of entertainment and and it made for a very entertaining show. And that was how we That was, That was what we did on Broadway. That was yes, yes, yes, it was. I see, I see. Can I just ask how did you? I just want to know how you guys figured out your like physical aesthetic, like for your live shows, for your album covers, Like what was the decision behind the outfits and how everything would come together? Well, you know, when when it when it came to to our live shows, we we were known for wearing these different type of outfits, you know, right from the beginning. I mean, you know, they addressed us funny, you know, but they would dress us in the same colors, but more to our personalities, you know, So what was your color? What was your color? Billy outfit would be a little different, and and that that was our theme, you know. And and then all of a sudden, they got a little bit more sophisticated as we as we stayed into the business longer, you know, they became sleeker and you know, different different like that. Then they would, and they would put those on the album covers and and I guess the direct the record company would say, hey, you know, put it on the album, because if they see album, they know the mention not to say that, you know. The idea for that of dressing in different different in the themes was actually Lamont's Lamont Mcamore, because we were getting ready to work in a club in l a and the group was not it was not famous at that time, and so we had this job, but we didn't have any outfits, and so it was like, oh my god, what are we gonna do? So Lamont came up with this idea. He said, hey, well, everybody has got something black and white in your closet, so why don't we take take an outfit and everybody wear black and white and you just wear whatever you want to wear. And that was what we worked that night at that club, and we all had on black and white. And there was a guy in the audience by the name of Boyd Clopton and he was a designer, and he came backstage afterwards and he said, I love your idea. You know, you took this theme about black and white, but you each wore your own personality, and he said, I would love to try to design something for you. He said, would you let me design an outfit using that kind of idea? And that was how that evolved. And he would come up with sketches and different things like that and show him to us before he would make them. You know, yeah, we would okay him and and each one each job that would be more in keeping with the with the personality of the singer. How long did he stay with you guys with making that? What was with us for a long time at least? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, Actually, I'm glad you asked that. I always wanted to know us. There were so many amazing things that that happened, the people that we met, the people who came involved, became involved with the group, the people who crossed our paths, and uh, it was truly I feel like the fifth dimension was truly blasted. Well yeah, yeah, well I always wanted to know. Okay, So I know again, in today's the times that we live in today, there are entourages, there's you know, assistant, there's wardrobe people, there's blah blah blah blah blah blah, bah blah blah. But I know that. At least back then it was sort of like self contained and artists were responsible for their own outfits and whatnot. So when when you are extensively touring and you have these outfits and whatnot, like, how do you how do you? How's the upkeep? Like? Are you guys the ones that have to iron your stuff before the show? Run to the cleaners in between cities and whatnot? Like? Or was there a wardrobe person on detail? No? No, we were, but we would do because we we ended up having to take a wardrobe person with us on the on the road. You know, they took care of all the while we would doing our sound checks and getting into the theaters and different things like that. They were backstage taking the outfits out of the trump and you guys were high level, Okay, I get it. They did their own stuff to that point. Was there ever pressure on you Maryland and Florence to make sure that y'all looked as amazing as y'all did in these outfits? Well, we you know, we we were sitting that in that mirror and make sure we look um. Yeah, but I mean not to not to not to make the iron the dresses and ironed the guys that no, no, no, I meant to look good in the outfits, not to Yes, yes, that's what I meant. Well, we tried our best, and of course, uh with with Boyd coming in with his his ideas of you know, I'm looking at our bodies and and trying to what's going to work right? You know, that's that's the great having a designer because they fit the outfit to your body. Yeah. Yeah, I'm learning. That's a grown up thing. Nothing about Taylors and whatnot and having things. Yeah, it's great. Wait, okay, I know, okay, so I know that that uh Laura Nero wrote the song, but I always wanted to know. And you know, I've seen you guys performing millions of times on the show and and whatnot, but the significance of wedding bell Blues and and it's popularity, I'm certain that you guys always get asked like, was was this song just a platform for Maryland to put Billy on the spot about marriage and whatnot? Even though I believe you guys were probably married at the time, were when they came up, so it was the same year. Yes, whose idea was it to do that song? And the whole marry Me bill and all those things like, because it was kind of unheard of at the time where it's reverse and the woman is asking the man to for you know, marriage. Yeah. Well, actually Laura Row wrote that for a bill in her life. Oh okay, right, I thought you customized it just for the years. I didn't realize that, you know. She wrote it, and she released it as a single and it it did well in California, but not across the country because Bones, how, our producer, came to us with the idea of you know, Billy and I were going together and he thought, oh, how cute it would be for Maryland to sing wedding bell blues to Billy. So and we said the Bones, it's our eve been out and it wasn't a hit. He said, no, it wasn't. He said. It was a hit in California, he said, but it wasn't a hit across the country. So we went in and recorded it and put it on the album and it ended up being picked as one of the singles. I see now. I read in another interview that you two did that. Maryland. You were the one that was actually a little skittish about marriage, but Billy was all in is that? Yeah? I was all into it, you know, but you know how many bills that I've met since since we got married, Because you guys were bandmates before you became married. Was there ever ever I thought of this might be a conflict of interest? Like if you're dating now, then if we break up, then it's going to be awkward in the group. Like how what was the awkward factor? Because I mean, you guys have been in the band since sixty five, but you got married in sixty nine. Like what eventually led to that marriage? How do you maintain a business relationship and you know, keep the marriage happy so to speak? Now I need Jill and I started becoming friends. That's right when we would go to rehearsal together and we would we spend a lot of time driving back and forth to rehearsal. And and not only that, but after rehearsals sometimes we go to parties, and Billy and I found ourselves spending a lot of time with each other just talking and laughing and talking about our lives and you know, how we felt about music and how we wanted to sing all of our lives and what we wanted to do in life, and you know, just share it with each each other, our dreams, you know, and and and and our passions. But but we were being parties and party would be jumping in Maryland on the couch talking. People must have thought, were weird. That's that stuff, that's stuff right here into ourselves, you know. And uh, we've been like that ever since. You know. So we were we were friends. And then when we started really kind of realizing that it was developing into something more than friendship, we kind of I thought, We've said to each other, are we gonna mess this side? Yeah, this is a dangerous thing to do. You know, you will mess this up, this thing up, because you know, you can create a mess in the group. That's that's that's going strong. You know. We all we need is a big argument, you know, it's anything crazy and it's over, you know. But but by that time, we we couldn't stop our friendship. Our friendship was stronger than anything else. Yeah. And you know, my parents, my parents have been married for twenty four years and then they got a divorce. And I thought, I don't know if this marriage thing is just. But you know, on the other hand, I wasn't I wasn't worried about it because my parents have been mad for sixty eight years, my own you know, that's a lot of pressure on your kids. Yeah, man, I was curious to know how y'all keep from, say, if y'all have an argument or disagreement about something in the studio, over something musically, or something in your career, how do you keep those disagreements and your personal in your professional life from bleeding over into your personal life. But it's a good question, you know, a very good question, because those things have happened, you know, but when they do happen, we have to realize that that's a that's a moment, that's a moment in time. Those things happen to people who are in the in the industry, especially people who work together. You know that that been has when when things has happened from one and and and hasn't happened for the other. You just have to live with that, you know. Most of all, you have to be thankful. The easiest way to get over that, and be thankful for that one that's getting it, you know, and that and then you can get over the right quick being thankful. Did it always come that easy to y'all? Well, you know, like sometimes before we go on stage, Billy and I would be angry and we would be locked in battle. But right, but then, how do you sing Wedding bell Blues to him? Because I know and you want to kill him. I know that song is such a staple for your careers and you have to sell it like you're singing to him and he's doing an act in whatever, Like if if there's an argument that happens, how do you sell that song? Well, you know you can't take that out on the stage. You can't. And so we say, I say, you know, we do. You know that's that's always the word. Yeah, you're right, yeah we will. You know, when you get on on stage and start singing, you can't. You can't say angry. But could you be angry afterwards? Like if you have done all that on stage, like could you could you could you get back to Yes? Yes, boy Bill, I can't wait till we do the new edition episode because I got a story from you for this was over. I was like, now we gotta get back into this. And then you get backstage and you say, well, I don't even remember. Yeah, I work with my girlfriend. It's the same thing like I don't know what we're arguing about, and then you know that big anyway, You know, most of the arguments that that couples have a pay they really are. But I'll tell you to think about it. Once the argument is over, you get away from it and you think, well, what was that about? Why did I do that? It didn't mean nothing if I could have only thought about that before we got into it. But a lot of times our egos won't let us do that, so we've got to carry it out. Yeah, we can win the battle, but you might lose the war wise words, But in a in a in a group, from a group standpoint, and it's five of you, how are you guys able to like is it all of us have to be unanimous and deciding on something like how how are sort of decisions made for songs or album titles or you know, can we make this gig? Like? Is it? Is it democracy? Or is it like is there someone that actually is the the alpha leader the group that makes the decisions for the are things? Yeah, you know, we used to we used to laugh about, we used to say laugh about how we would say we met more than the U N Yeah, it was definitely a democracy. I mean we uh, we agreed the one who uh, the majority who who came up with it. That was the way we went. You know, yeah, we we we talked about all of our jobs. You know, we agreed to disagree whatever. But but most of the time, like with with the things that pertain to uh to the career part, like with the title of the album and what were the songs the final songs that we're gonna be on the project, most of the time that the record company would make that decision. You know, we we would work on it and then we'd say, you know what, we're not record you know, we don't know how to run a record company. We know how to make the music and let them choose what's gonna what's gonna south Well, that was probably the best That was the best way for the group anyway, because putting all five people together talking about which one is the best one out that, you know, then the fight started. I see yeah we don't want that. Yeah, well that okay. So that leads me to what was the process of YouTube leaving the group and going duo. Well, you know, that was a that was a tough decision, very tough for us because I don't remember all three of the guys from St. Louis. I mean, we were like family. We knew each other when we were kids, you know, and uh kind of migrated to Los Angeles at different times, and uh end up being in the group and so and and and and and and meeting Maryland and Florence and being a part of the family. So they we were like a family. But we were a family who's who had dreams. It's like a families that somebody went dreams. Like my whole dream was to come out was to be a solo singer with with more time, you know what. Maryland's dream was to be a solo singer with whatever we call it and and come to she could get whatever received her as a as as a solo singer, you know, a pop singer. But and uh, so we thought about it, and after ten years we thought, will we ever fulfilled the dream that we really started with? Uh? You know what, would we be the ones to come up with the saying that said, if I had only I should have? Would have? Should have I should have? You know you always added to the back of your mind, could we have done this on our own? You know? So we decided and then that at the particular time that there was there was everybody in the group wanted to do more, you know, so that that thing was happening, you know, so we decided, well, you know, it's it's it's about time for us and to to kind of strike out on our own and see what we can do ourselves. Did you guys still maintain the friendship after uh you guys left the group in Yeah, yes, we did. It took a couple It took a couple of years before we you know, because they were hurt feelings and which was understanding. We could understand that. But we're very close as family now, you know, we got we're just still surviving members. Just who's still surviving along with you guys other group is everyone's still alive? Not everyone. Ron Townsend has passed away. They gave a big one with the beard right yeah, yeah, yes, the way and on the rest of the other four still living is alive. Fact, we talked to her but day so ago and the mom uh is standing in Las Vegas and we talked to him not too long ago, So we were very close. We're very close. Yeah. I have one fifth to mentioned question that actually has to do with when you guys left left the group. But I'm hoping you can answer this for me because it's been killing me. Okay, so this came out when I was five years old, so I really, even though I kind of had an adults knowledge of music at the age of five, if this always killed me? Am I? Am I dreaming? Or did the Fifth Dimension actually have a version of Love Hangover before Diana Ross did, because I could have sworn I've seen them on American Bandstand doing Love Hangover and I was just confused at the time. And it's almost like I didn't hear of it. Am I dreaming of that? Or this was after Billy and I had left the h after you left. I was just hoping you might know the answer to that. Right, You're gonna give you the as So I wasn't dreaming. Okay, did have a version of Love pay Over and Florence sang the lead on it, right and they released it as a single, but um, right around the same time Motown decided to release Diana Ross's version of Right. And that's why you were confused as a child, because you said, wait a minute, now, I wasn't crazy. It doesn't sound too different. You listen to it. Why did I just bother to this YouTube? Yeah? Sorry, I'm asking that question. It was like, never once did it occurred to me to Yeah, never once that I did occurred to me. Why don't you just YouTube or Google? You're learning a mirror one day, you're going to the stories. Why not? What I was saying, like, I remember them doing it on American band Stand. I remember my mom really loving that song when they did it, and I remember them doing a few times on like variety shows, and then like yeah, when I was in first grade, like a year when I was six, and suddenly like, oh, it was Dinah Rosses song. And then in my mind I was like, wait, was I watching Dinah ross do it the whole time? And maybe not? But I knew in my mind I always associated Love Hangover with the Fifth Dimension. I just thought I was the fifth dimension version with the moans. You could drop with the moans in there too. No, Okay, I'm sorry, inappropriate, in appropriate? Excuse me? Sorry? Okay. So in going solo, well, first of all, let it let it be known that the very first time that I ever uh saw Jay Leno was on the Billy Davis Jr. Marilyn mccou show. Could you all right, So for our listeners out there that are that are listening, can you explain the the value or the importance of the variety show in the seventies? Like, I know that now we live in a reality show kind of environment, But when I was growing up, I remember like Gladys Night and the Pips having a variety show. I remember Flip Wilson, Tony Orlando and Dawn, like Shields and Yard. Now like everyone had the Jackson's, everyone had a variety show. What was the like, was that a desire for you guys or was it like this is going to take you guys to the next level? What was the big deal with variety shows? Yeah? I think that, Yeah, I think that that was that was the thing to do at that time. Yeah, we would basically the first black couple to really have a variety show. Yeah, in the industry, you know. And uh it was a summer replacement show. And we had six shows to do and we and we and we completed that and uh. But but doing television was was was good. The only thing that that was a little bit confusing for us was having to learn songs. So quick, you know, because of the television you have to learn the song almost like that week and then performing that that week, you know. And we used to spend a little bit more time those songs to kind of make those songs us, you know, make it, make it. We could get some meat out of it, you know, right, But that that was the only thing outside of that We were ready for it because we loved we enjoyed doing the skits and you know, all of the funny stuff and the love songs, and yeah, it was good, it was good. But that as being the first one. Then after that a lot of these other shows started coming on. Yeah, but like you were saying about Jay Minno, so so what we did with our skits, because you always had to have a little humor in the show, and so the idea but since we had spent so much time on the road, why not make the road experience be part of your humor in the show. And Jay Leno came along. He was a young unknown comic at the time, and we ended up he ended up being our playing our tour manage, right, yeah, and he would always give you guys like weird assignments. That was like I remember, we had lost Somebody on the Road and I totally remember that. And you guys were in the show the same way, right, Like you guys would say good night, like was it in like in bed Like yeah, that was like it would be like at the end of the day, you know, and getting me had to say good night to one another, you know, singing a song, singing and then turn it out the light, you know. Right, Wait, you said that was only six episodes in the summer. Yes, yes, so weird Like in my again, like in my mind, I'm thinking like, oh that that was on for like four or five years. I well, I mean we watched it religiously in the crist in the house, So okay, I see television because you know, you can show him over and over and over. Yeah, I think that they're happened. There's something's more than just six you know. Are you guys aware of the kind of the status I'll say that in in like dancehall reggae culture. I hope we get to love and time kind of has uh a different meaning in the Islands, like that song it's been covered so many times by like various singers in Jamaica that were you guys even aware of how big that song is over there or at least amount of covers, like there's at least we've never heard it. I'd love to hear it. Yeah, it's it's it's almost it's kind of like a staple like that's that's that's one of the ballots you have to sing if you, you know, if you're kind of in the at least around like the early eighties, suddenly there was like just a one slot of I hope we get to love in time. No, we didn't know it. Yeah, oh okay, yeah, I was gonna say that with uh with your love and you don't have to be started? Was it was it different or did you guys at least have more creative control in the songs that you wanted to do outside of the Bell UH label where they mostly made the decisions for you. What was the difference in coming to ABC than it was for Bell. Well, basically, you know what we were we were with ABC. Uh. The smith was a it was a what you called it his position, Yeah, yeah, man, and when he when he picked Don Davis to be our producer. But yeah, well yeah Don Davis he producer. Uh, I hope we get to love of Time album, but he would. He came to us with a bunch of songs, and you don't have to be a star was was one of them. And right naturally when we heard that, we thought, bo, this is this is clever, you know, what a great saying. You don't have to be a star to be in my shoe, you know, And it just it just seemed a bit you know. And but we always thought that I hope we get to Love of Time would be the statement that we wanted to make because Maryland and me and know open the love songs, you know, and uh, come to find out that you don't have to be a star was was a major hits that Yeah you did behind that became another hit was your Love? Yeah, your Love and your little gospel uh riffs at the end of it. I used to see that a lot in second grade. Sorry, do you remember at all? Um? I'm I'm a big fan also of Frank Wilson, his production work, especially with you know he worked on like a lot of Eddie Kendricks's solo stuff. Yes, he was the prime producer. What was it like working with Frank Wilson. Frank was a good friend, Yes, Yes, Frank was not only a good friend, you know, Frank ended up becoming a feature a pastor. Uh yeah, okay, and he was he was very instrumentally in Maryland and Me becoming Christians, you know. Okay, that was just a salmon, I guess in his life bringing. It's been an entertainers the christ as it could and and uh and that was a good thing for us, you know, because it's one of the things that really kept us even closer than than we really are, love our faith, you know. And but Frank was the producer of the Two of Us album that we did, and we found out later on that there was a song on on that album called Wonderful right, and it was more of a R and V flavor, you know, kind of kind of song. And we found out that that song was a major hit in Germany. We never we never even knew it. Oh really, no, we never knew it. We were all the ship doing a doing a cruise and this German guy was on on the hitcome and the answers, They said, you guys are gonna sing Wonderful. We looked and show we hadn't even thought about it, you know, he said, Yes, a big hit in Germany. The big hit. One of the fun things about working with Frank was that we love, we all love, we all loved picking unusual songs and uh, Frank would. Frank brought some unusual songs to us and things that we found fun, fun to do and kind of wacky, kind of different. Um, we didn't end up with a hit with but we had a good time. That a good time saying those songs because they were different. Yea, you know they were different. But the one love song that we did love was love for You? What what is it? Oh? Now I was gonna ask about saving all my love for you. I know that you guys had that first before Whitney Houston did. Yes, Yes, we did, yeah, and yeah, like, how how did you guys come across that song? Oh? My gosh, Michael Master wrote the song and and oh gosh, now now you got me you got me on that one. I don't remember how that's song was brought to us, do you remember? Yeah? I think I think we ran into Michael Masson somewhere and he wanted to produce us and want the song and he wanted us to do that. That song and another song that I did I forgot the name of it. The song was my reason to be That's frank song that on the two of us albums. Okay, we always thought that that would be there was one of the greatest love songs. That we had to record it, you know, but saving all my love for you, well, yeah, we we went into the studio with Michael and uh Whitney. Whitney turned that song out, Yes, yes, say the least. He did a beautiful job on that. Yeah. Well, of course, you know, of course we'd be remiss if we didn't mention that. Earlam and Coup I guess around two eighty three replaced Dion work as the host of Solid Thank You. I knew he was going in salid. Could you could talk about the experience of how how that came to be? And I mean, you know, that was such a legendary show and at the time when you were hosting practically any artists worth their weight in Gold, I mean even Prince, who was notorious for snubbing shows like had to do Solid Gold twice. So who's that whole experience? Like I enjoyed it. Of course Dion did it for the first year and uh she and well, actually, let's see Dion and Dion and Glennie Campbell. That's did I think they did the first year the first I don't even think they did the first year. I think they did the I think they they introduced the show. But then I don't know what happened with with Dione and Glenn But but Dion ended up hosting the first year and then um after that. I don't know the inner workings because I came in um after all that was going on, and the producers had decided that they wanted to and they wanted Andy gibb Right to be the to be the host, and then they thought about combining. They liked the idea of Dione and Glenn. They like the the male and female male female and anyway, so they auditioned me with with with Andy, and they liked the combination, and so I ended up doing that first year with with Andy and and they liked it that At the end of the first year, Andy moved on he was having some issues and still then uh, I ended up doing this. I don't need to take you through each I mean, okay, we're here for it. Yeah, the Rick Smith and I co hosted the show this next year. Rick Smith or Rick ds no Rex, You're right, Rex Smith's totally forgot about that, okay until later. So then Rex and I did it the second year, and then the third year they we're trying to decide who who I should work with on the third year, and then they decided that that they would just go with me, and so then I was I was with solid goal for those next three years. That's the only years I remember. Yeah, yeah, because you were children. What was this? What was the scheduling, uh into because I mean, because they were celebrating the charts. Was it all year round or was it like seasonal? Yeah, it was it was seasonal. We would we would do the shows we would do we would tape every other week and we would go with the charts and what was big at that time, and uh, we would we would take Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, and then uh then the following week would be off. I'd go out and work. Billy and I would go out and work, and then I come back and we featured the next songs that were popular then and I see, yeah, so but it was basically just it was a good experience in doing that. I enjoyed that a lot because, uh, like you said, everybody came on and did the shows and you know, you're you're, you're. I remember when Madonna came on, and of course I remember Prince being there, and that was that was. I don't I didn't get a chance to really spend any time with Prince because he's kind of it was kind of shy, but still it was. It was a lot of fun and the dancers, of course, were just amazing. I was gonna say, how nice was Darcella Wayne. I'm sort of like a unicorn in that, you know, probably next to Sheryl Song on Soul Train, Darcella Wayne was probably the most popular dancer on Solid Gold. But he never heard of anything I've earned in the press or anything. So it's just like this woman with this beautiful long hair on the show, and then I didn't hear much from her afterwards, like was she you know what? Was like still out there she's dancing and she I don't. I haven't seen Darcella and quite a while, but she was. She was a pleasure to work with and she was just beautiful, just awesome to watch. I mean, her dancing was just amazing, and uh, it was. I enjoyed the experience. I enjoyed it too, because I got a chance to be on the show quite a few times myself. Right, those are the advantages. We would Billy would come on and we would sing our duets. Yeah, I love that. I always enjoyed that. Yeah. It should also be noted that Um Casper the even even though Jeffrey Daniels sort of gets the glory for teaching Michael Jackson how to do the womb work movewalk, it was it was actually Uh Casper, who was a dancer on Solid Gold that really, you know, taught Michael the aesthetics on how to do the moonwalk. He was also I didn't even know that wealth of useless knowledge right now, right now, like this moment, right now, knowledge only for this specific moment. So I also wanted to know. I know that you guys, Uh went went through to your gospel phase shortly thereafter, in in the mid to late eighties and in the nineties. I recall, I believe you guys as the fifth dimension reunited. What was like, what was that process uh like in reuniting the group, and how was it there was a special moment moment I think that would that says it all. The first time we got back together and we started talking about we're gonna do this reunion tour, and we said, well, first of all, let's see where we are. And so you know, we hadn't sung any harmonies together in many years, and of course you know, we had gotten away from that, so we were remembering the harmony so so well. And so we got around the piano and they said, let's start out with up, Up and away, which is unison and everybody remembers that. And we started to sing what would you like to write? Beautiful, and our voices the blend. We all started looking at one another and saying, oh my gosh, Bill got it like we never walked away from each other, you know, it was it was the same sound. It was, this is amazing, you know. It was very um it was very emotional. And then the Democrats started again, you know, you know, we started getting together and doing doing jobs. But it was set up the way we had it set up with the with the demntion before we left. Wow, So how how long did the reunion tour last? For? What? Do? Yeah? A couple of years we did. We did some performances together and then UH and Billy and I still had some some of our duet shows that we had to do, and Florence and Lamont and Ronald UH had two other members in the group, and they had their performances so that, you know, they had bookings, we had bookings. But then we would come together and UH do some original we we would call it the original fifth Dimension and work for different companies and they were it was considered like a very special occasion to have the original Fifth Dimension that during that time, they called them corporate jobs. Yeah, you know, we played a lot of trust me that that still exists. It's also kind of dope that y'all didn't agree on that whole original dimension versus the other dimension and let them do their own things. I just want to say it was it weird for you to just because even way into the eighties I kept seeing, you know, like Florence would have another line up long after ron and and Lamont left the group. Was it kind of weird sort of seeing at least the name UH still carrying on without the four original members in the group. For you guys, it was yea, you know, to us, to the audiences. To us too, I'll say it for you, it sounded weird to us. Too. Well, you know, not only that we would when we would could, we would go and see them and support them and and be there far. Yeah okay, I see. Also we should mention what what was it like playing Um, I'm a big fan of the original Jamie Fox Show. Yeah I know that. Yeah you guys, uh fancies parents parents here. Yes, we enjoyed that so much. That was a that was a great group of people to be working with. Producers. Jamie was delightful on and we we got a kick out of that. Yes, yes, you know what. Jamie is so talented, my god. I mean just to see him work and the stuff that comes off the top of his head. I mean, he's he's a creator. You know, it just comes out of him. You know. Uh, they might need a song for a special moment in the show, and uh so then they would say, oh, we need a song here, and Jamie would go off somewhere and he'd come back and with a brilliant song. Y. Yeah, that's good. So I'll say that. Um, oh, I'm sorry, we got we gotta mention Blackbird, what what was the what was the sort of the idea and covering Lennon McCartney songs for the Blackbird Project, especially in light of when, when it was and why it was released last year or this year? Well came out, Well, it's just earlier, yeah, earlier this year. You recorded it last year, though, What was the significance behind or at least the process and in recording that that album. Well, our our producer, our management company, we have been talking about a project. A young man by the name of Nick Mendoza UH had been introduced to us, and our management company thought that he would be a wonderful producer to to work with. And now Nick's millennial producer. Yes, so very young, but a very how you know, interesting knowledge of the two of them who we were voices uh our sounds and and you know, we started talking about ideas, and we were very concerned and troubled by what's what's been going on in our country, and uh we felt like, if we're going to do something, we want to do something that speaks to what is going on right now. As we told Nick how we felt and what we would love to do, Nick was very very much interested because he said, well, you know, you guys are talking about the things that the people my age are worried about. You know, about what's happening to our country and why, you know, why are we so at odds and what's the viol what is the division about? You know, it's not young people don't know. They haven't lived what we have lived, but they still to know what it's all about. And we have been doing Blackbird and having Beatles Medley and our live show, and so we were for me with with Blackbird and what it meant because the Lenin and McCartney wrote it as a as a as A as A as an anthem, the civil rights anthem, you know, and so we just like, hey, that's that's it's it's really uh uh a movement, you know. Uh, it's a civil rights movements where we looked at you know, because everybody and everybody needs to know what's going on out here, you know. So we decided to go ahead and start doing putting Blackbird in and we saw listen to more of the Beatles songs and started putting stories kind of like behind these these songs like uh ticket to ride with uh with Rosa parks Man when she wouldn't give give up a seat on the bus and she she she just you know, and and and and her being going to jail and her husband waiting for her, you know, and you don't know the story about her husband. It was another story, you know. So black Bird is and and and in the front of the album portrays all of the the the people who will killed and and and and and and just for no reason at all, you know, just because of the color and its squeeated a lot of division in our society. And we just prayed at this album will be a healing project. We're so we were so inspired and encouraged by the young people and how they were coming together and protesting together, you know, across racial lines, across uh, across cultural lines, and we're saying that this is what our country needs. We've got to come together, we've got to draw together and make the statement understood. And her and we just felt like we want, like you said, we wanted to make it like a movement. That's what human rights, human rights movement. Congratulations for another number one album on the R and B charts. That's pretty pretty great, Pretty excited about the response that we've been seeing because i mean, you know, at this age, for us to be doing this now is just amazing. It's your time that you had a lot to do with that, with with with fing this this uh footage. Oh yeah, just like you created a renaissance for us, Yes you have, but we thank you, thank you. I appreciate absolutely. No. I will say that um probably you know one of the key scenes that that's in the movie, UM that really touch people, like when they when they tell me how much they loved it, um, especially for like fellow fellow black artists that I show it to. First of all, just watching YouTube watch it. I couldn't have I couldn't have scripted it better. You know, it couldn't have It couldn't have happened more pitch perfect, note perfect than your interview portion, especially you know, letting the sentiments be known how important playing that festival UM was and connecting with black audiences that otherwise might have been familiar with you guys at the time, and how it really really touched them. And I will say that, you know, I should be thinking you because I mean, you know it's it's the footage itself is magic on its own, but you guys, really human eye is did it and really touch people's hearts with with with your portion of of that movie. And you know, I think you both for doing it was just you know, we were just doing it was such a special special what you put together was was beautiful. I mean, that's that's the only way we can react to it. I mean, this what comes from the hang ghost, you know. And we were so happy for you to win that Grand Jury Sundance at the Festival of Yes. We were just so excited that that happens, you know, because and your premier, this is your first director experience, come up with such a powerful um, a powerful success like this, and we're just so excited for you for years and all the stars will on that. Yeah, I asked myself that all the time. But you know, now now is the time, Like I feel like, you know, it's been the whole compliment. I am sitting here floor. You did not interrupt them. You let them tell you all tell you all, just let them. World famous for avoiding compliments. I hate compliments. I'm sorry, good, I just gotta take it, or I'll still tease me about it. Thank you. Wait before I wrap up, there's there there is one question I gotta ask, only because the sample is so famous. I know that, uh Billy, you started your own independent label sometime in the mid seventies and uh, one of your clients, one of the late acts on the label was Jimmy cast Bunch. Yeah, what what was that? What was that experience like? Only because on that particular album, Uh because a famous Uh well no, no, not just because on but no Uh Kanye's uh song the first song on Graduation good Morning's. Yeah, it's it's all. It's Jimmy Caster's cover of I Just Want to Start by Gino Vanelli. Right, it's but yeah, it's it's on the label that what is Yeah, what was working with Jimmy Caster like during that period and what made you want to start your own label during that period? Well, it was I've always wanted to produce and and and and and create my whole kind of way in life and and uh at the particular time, Jimmy Susterlinda was working working for our company, you know, che sellers about Jimmy and uh, and when we met him, it was like he was like family. I mean, he was just a regular guy loving his music, and you know, so we just we just got into it and say let's get visit with some music. You know, I see everything that you hear on that album, that's that's all, Jimmy, Yeah, it is. Well, you know you guys, I mean it goes without seeing it. You guys are are a class act. And I really, really, really really thank you for giving us your time and coming on the show. And I I just love you guys to death. I'm a genuine fan of the group. You know, guys are an inspiration also, especially in a time period which how you're you're such a serious historian. Yes, that is your heart, and you know when you meet somebody like that, you want to share with them all the knowledge that you have to to you know, to contribute to the to your Now now you know, I'm not a historian. I'm just a really really really big Billy This available coup. I thank you guys for it, and you know much continue success. Okay, maybe my last question is what do you want the legacy of Billy Davis and Merlin maccou to be? Wow? Well, you know, for me, I know, it's just that people coming together and just being who we are to one another, not not being putting on trying to be more than what we are, just just just be who you are and just people coming together on one card. You know, if we can just do that and and and and and and have our human rights. That would be a legacy for me before I leave here. Wow, that's hey we that's a mite drop right there, drop it. That's a mic drop right there. Well, thank you very much for doing the show. I love and appreciate you guys on behalf of Layah and I'm paid Bill and shook A, Steve and fon Tiggelo. This Quest Love. I cannot believe I got to talk to Billy Davidson, Mary Coup. Thank you very much. This is Quest Love Supreme. We'll see you on the next proground. Yo, what's up? This is Fonte. Make sure you keep up with us on Instagram at QLs and let us know what you think and who should be next to sit down with us. 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