El DeBarge

Published Jun 9, 2021, 4:01 AM

Are you ready for another legendary Questlove Supreme episode!?!? Yes, another one! In the words of our leader, this week's guest possesses "one of the most flawless tenor voices in modern music. He has NO singing peers and if he does they share his last name" We guarantee you don't disagree. Ladies and gentlemen ........El DeBarge! 

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Question. Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio. Ladies and gentlemen. You know the show. You know the host, you know the co host, like if Fontakolo, Sugar Steve broadcast Bill say hello, Hey, right, all right, let's just get this out the way. This is about, this show was invented like this effort, this once in a blue moon. What can I say about our guest today, Ladies and gentlemen, I will simply state we do not deserve this guest at all. He possesses what I personally believe to be one of the most flawless tenor voices in modern music, as a songwriter, as an arranger, as a producer, as a performer, as an entertainer. Our guests, I don't believe that he has any singing Pierre what soever. He does. They have his last name, That's all I'm saying. Even as he approaches the golden nage of sixty, this Jude, he has not lost a step. He's in fine form since when we first heard him over forty years ago in front of his siblings. Please give us the honor of welcoming and giving flowers. Yes they flowers, Yes, only Eldred departs the quest love supreme. I can't believe I said that. Yes, don't get me, Mama made it our Hello, how are you? I'm great? After that? That's that's wonderful. I didn't know. I didn't know I was a coaching sixta. You don't look at you don't look at all, man, for real? You Yeah, you're not think about it really, I never think it doesn't feel like, oh good. I have to get out the habit of acknowledge numbers, like I feel like that is what slows slows this down. I think in terms of numbers. I mean we we've been doing that for centuries. We pack people, we design people, we judge people by numbers. Everything. Yeah, but no, it's it's this is wonderful to speak with you. You know. I don't know if you know the history of this particular show, but we're really about celebrating your achievements and um, you know, going through the journey of your life as a creative and and and all those things. So I will start at the beginning. Um No, I'm not asking where he's born because I know you were born in Detroit. Well, okay, can you because I know that your family moved to Grand Rapids. What is the difference between Grand Rappids in Detroit. Oh, well, today not much because Grand Rapids has gotten very, very very seriously, Well that's just just lot more violence than it was when I was coming up. But in in the seventies, my mother wanted to sustain in Grand Rapids, Michigan because Detroit. You know, if you know about Detroit, it was kind of rough on us, being half Greeks, half black and half white. A lot of criticism from uh actually a lot of gotten, a lot of fights from both sides, from whites and the blacks was a lot easier on us. And we went there to go to school. But every year during the summer we were back in Detroit anyway, So because that's where most of our relatives was. What year did you move to Grand Rapids. I mean I was like eight years old? See, uh, I was sixty one. Let's do the mass an. So do you have any memories of like at least Detroit, like post Riot, because you know, not many people under understand or know that, I mean a big part of motown, uh, migrating to the West and kind of what Detroit once represented. A lot of that sort of h vanished after the Detroit riots that people aren't aware of, even though like a movie was made about it a couple of years ago. But do you have any memories of the time during during that period in your life. Yeah, I was young myself. I think I was roughly around eight or nine years old when riots happened. Um, I remember stepping outside, but we just go outside every chance we got his kids. I stepped outside one day and people were fighting the streets and cars were driving up on a sidewalk trying to run people over. I didn't know what was going on. Uh. My brother Bobby grabbed me and pulled me back in the house. He said, it's a riot by Luther King got shot. I remember very well, very well I was. I don't even remember being that scared of my life because it was crazy. I was looking you'd imagine being eight years old saying something like that. I got a lot of fine memories too, about about Detroiting my grand episode. It's where I got my musical education. By most of my influences, I have gospel influences to I don't talk about him a lot, but Andre, now we here we can hear it in the intro to love me in a special way. We're here to go. That's true, that's true. Yeah, I mean I was strongly influenced by Andrew Crouch and uh Walter Hawkins. Do you remember your first musical memory? My first musical memory? Actually you want to hear this? Yes, yes, yes. We we love long drawing out stories on the show, like okay, there's no such like fireside chat stuff. That's what we look for. Okay. Well, my mother, Um, every time we moved to a house, my mother had what you call a prayer closet, and she would pick one closet in the house and it was hers. Nobody could go in there, and she uh, she redecorated, she had an alter in there, and she would kneel down to pray. My mother prayed from twelve midnight to three in the morning every night, every night, so as long as I can't remember so, but one particular night, Um, she got my brother Bobby out of bed in the morning. And I remember I was seven years old. I remember Bobby, his jaws was tight. He was mad, why would you give me so? And said, well, the Lord told me that al is going to be a minister of music, So I want you to teach you a song. This is a true story. So um, here we are both sitting at the piano and we had just got a um we were really real poor. We just got a upright piano donated to us from some neighbors. And because my brother Bobby was the only want to play piano at the time. So here we are sitting at the piano. He said, du du d. Mary had a little lamb. Then he looked at me and said, now play it. So my mother said, just a man it. She had some annointing oil and she annointed my fingers in my hands with it. She said, I'm playing, and man, I started planning. I started planning in harmony. I was never taught. It's just I just saw it. I saw the notes in my in my head and I started planning and her he played one finger. I started playing in the the harmy. I've been playing piano every since. So you never had formal lessons. It was just I tried to take lessons, but by the time I did it, I had my ear had developed so well. Playing by ear. They just sent me home and said, well, he's cheating. He's pretending like he's reading music. Did Bobby give you another lesson. Yeah, Bobby gave me many lessons. Bobby. Bobby was like a mentor for me musically. He sharpened, or he's shaving my musical taste. Um. He got me into Marvin Gay, slide Stone, Um I it was George Clinton. It was like that, right, you know. And then he would make me play songs and learn them and um, I remember one time I played the song by Earth from the Fire and I played it exactly perfect, just like it was, and he set me upside my head. I was like, what do you do at for? He said, I didn't tell you to copy it. I said, play it like you don't copy. He was like he was like really fred meticulous in particular about what he wants wish. I'm glad about because that's helped the shaping me. You know. Were you the first beside your brother Bobby. Were you the first of the family members to really catch on into music? No, no, no, no, My sister Bunny, Brandy, I'm remember seven down the line, Brandy, Marty, Tommy, Bunny, Diezra, Ellis Chantel, Bobby. Those are all older than me. Okay, I see I got it eventually. Um damn, I'm so overwhelmed. I literally forgot my Wait a minute, I had a good question to damn um. You were the first album that you purchased. Yeah, first album my purchase was Earth When the Fire. Um, it was all in all album really Yeah, the one was you know, yeah that one. Yeah, that's first of my actually, but my brother Bobby kept him and Bunny they always I was listening to their albums. They was always buying them. But the first one that you purchased was definitely all in on that was yours. What is it about you always spoken about Maurice White being a musical hero of yours. Uh, and all the interviews I've read, even before you worked with him in ninety two, what was it? What was it about his music that spoke to you feeling? It was just h It was the first time that I had heard any any band of musicians, uh, stretch out like that. They the horns and the and um, the strings. I mean it was just pretty. Quest It was just so pretty, you know. Uh, all the stuff they did in between, my heir was picking up all of that, and then he had and then um, he just wouldn't stop. Each album. He just kept building and building and making everything larger, and it seemed like they were never going to have a flop. They was just hit after hit after hit after hit, all this stuff, which it just moved me like that, you know. And he was very He was a very smart producer. Sure you know that, very imperious. Can you tell me of I mean, besides your your family group, did you in your high school experiences or in your neighborhood experiences, did you have other groups that you were part of or bands or were you guys just like contained as a family doing stuff together. Well, No, I've always had other other groups that I was in, other bands that I was in, UM see my brothers. Basically, to be honest with you, Okay, there's Randy, Marty, James, Chico, all of them. UM music was like so natural for us. It was like you have to really make them sit down in practice because it came so easy for him. Like people who who need to develop something, you'll see them spending more time trying to develop it. But it was like with them, you give him a note, they got a fact, it's easy, so they don't they get bored with it really easy, so they would be outside chasing the girls. Seriously, you know, I was always I was always very serious minded. Even from a child. They used to call me professor because they said, you're too serious, man, Be a child, be a kid. But I've always been like that. So I was always somewhere practicing and studying, rehearsing. I had to like make them do it, you know. And but once you get them in and you start teaching them notes, get them into it, they're there, I mean, And honestly, I don't know anybody that harmonizes better than a do. I mean, you gotta give it to him bad. I'll give it to you. I'll give it to you. I know, yes that I mean when I say I give it to you, I give it to you. The Barge clan. I was curious, however, if other like do you are you the type of creator or musician that like, it's hard for me to listen to some people without offering my notes inside my head or my I mean, it's one thing to listen to a song as a fan, but then it's another thing to listen to it and you start critiquing. So like your thoughts on at least at the time, like other groups that were closer to your age, like where you aware of, like what the Five Stero Steps were doing, or the Silvers earlier incarnation of the Silvers. I mean, the Jackson's are almost kind of because they were, oh you big, what's It's almost like, I don't know, they're more of an institution than I consider them just a singing group. But what were your thoughts on like other people around, like younger acts at the time. I've always felt like different. I remember the Silvers we were coming up. I remember, of course, the Jackson's. I've always felt like my style was was different. I was going somewhere else. But but you know, I know how to pull from this person and that person different groups what I need. I was always thinking somewhere else. I mean honestly, I just was. I was like I would listen to my peers, people that were my age, who were um in entertainberginners. But I found myself more so steering towards uh older groups. It seemed like, I don't know, we just I learned more what I mean, um, which was the reason why I had other groups that I was in even when I was coming up. I wasn't always just singing with my family. I was always there was a group I was in called Peacemakers, another group being called Guy's Children of Harmony who called h t NT Flashers. Don't ask me, it's like, why why was that the name? That's such a name, right, just something one of the band members came up with. I don't know. I just went with it. But you remember I was very young. Um. I started playing at seven years old, so I was by the time I was twelve years old. I was playing and in the bars and clubs with my brother Bobby in his groups, but I was in the background. Nobody knew I was there. How were you when you gave your first public performance? Uh? Well twelve, okay it was It was mostly just me playing the piano and singing backgrounds behind Bobby and in his groups. But for the most part, as a singer, would you say that as a singer, would you say that your brother Bobby is like your your north star You're at least and because your vocal textures are the same. But you know a quest he um. One thing that Bobby instilled in me, he um, was to be myself, be me, never get lost, and and whatever influences you, uh, make sure it becomes a part of who you already are, and I consume you so because of that. I mean I could say Marvin Gaye and really be honest about it, and and Bobby and Maurice wife Andrew Crouch Hawkins slides on the b gs all. I made all of these my mentor because I got into every single one of them, just one just as much as the other. Well, eventually, I know you guys have to migrate out west. How did the whole process start? And getting at least with your your brother getting Tremaine Jackson's attention, that stuff like, how did I guess the move to movetown? How did how did what was the first step that went out there? You know, I'm sad because you said my grade so many of us is like I could see a whole tribe of us, But I still don't have the official count. L I was counting on my hands when he was doing it. Now, what is the official number of the Barg's children? Wait a minute, your mama, your mama, your my mama eleven with ten with my mama. Let see, my daddy was roll right, but he yeah, he was he was something else. He was having children while he was married to my mother. And check this out he was bringing come home. I'm sorry, what now? What was he What would you mean? Oh, by the way you meet your new brother? Yeah, he pulled defenses second definitely. Yeah, wow, I know that experience. I had to meet one of my brothers that way, like when I was nine. Yes, I have too, I had two older brothers. Yeah, just one day. Casually meet your brother different different times, that's all. That's a whole school, right. Do you get shot for doing that nowadays? Yes? Exactly. Now it's like make room for your brother, you make funeral plans right for you. Your mother. We put them into the singing side of the de Barges too, like the other your father's kids or they've on the singing side that mostly came from my mother. Is there? I was just gonna say, is there a DeBarge that does not know how to sing? And won't get angry? If you agree with that question? They know what they know. It's it's yeah. I think if aild the Barges in your family, you know if you can sing or not. I think you have. I think you have a pretty good benchmark of of what's saying and what ain't. But I was just curious whether or not like that sort of that kind of EPI genetics works with talent as well, Like the entire family is blessed with the voice, but only maybe six or seven are blessed with it, and you know the rest are not that lucky. I always want to know it works like that. Next work the same way. Although I would have to say this, I don't know if you find this interesting or not, but my father, the timber and his voice, um, mixed with my mom is what it helps, what helps to shape in my tone. Um. Really, because if you have heard my father talk and seeing he's a singun house, you would know what I'm talking about. You could hear a mixture of his tone and my mother's too. Plus two equals what I what I have. Wow, I was gonna ask you, l how do you preserve your voice? Man? I saw your Instagram live concert that you did where you were playing. You sounded amazing. Man. That was so it was. It was fantastic, and me and my wife we watched it. We put it on the big speakers like everything. It was great. And um, I just want to know how you preserve your voice, man, because you're still singing all those songs still in the same key, still with the same clarity. How how do you preserve yourself? I will I would have to say, yeah, I drink, but I love water so um. But ultimately, you know, I having gone through what I've been through in life, we we all know it was it was the grace of God. You know, God's got his hands on you, man, and uh, he's got his hands on you, and he preserved me. I mean water, what I've been through, water with long coodness, but it was God, man, you know. And uh, you know what I'm saying, Hey man, you could want passed off from plate. Now we've usually passed to him. All right, So back to my question, how how did the transition to California happened? Okay, well, Bobby he was missing and we didn't know where he was honestly, Um, he just walked off one day. I think he was like eighteen years old. Yeah, and months went by, no body, two months went by, no Bobby, come and find out this whole time he was in California and uh and he was would switch him and uh, police don't say you saw almost television like oh there he is, no no, not that. Okay, we found this out like a year later. He was going for a year before we even knew where it was. And you know, my mother was hurt, right, so then, uh, but we did hear that on the radio. Back then, there was no Internet, none of that stuff. So you know, it's kind of hard to figure out where he was. But he just left. I just took off and then next you know, Tommy was gone. But he had sent for Tommy. All this was like his big secret. He wanted to surprise us, but it took him a year. It's just but anyway he got with Motown and uh, which I gotta give Greg Williams credit because he put all that together. He was deep a relationship with Greg Williams. Because even now as we speak, um, you know, members of of Switch have reunited to you know, still trying to figure out how are they doing those songs without Bobby there? But yeah, I was like, how is that work? No? I mean, but nothing against nothing, nothing against Philippin. That was Patty. That was that Catty. I mean, but it wasn't a lot. It wasn't. But it's hard. I was going to ask, has there ever has there ever ever been a conversation about kind of uh a quasi amalgamation of Switch of the Barge in Switch, I mean, I mean whatever you think, L break that down from me. Have you in your life ever saying uh, I call your name, you'll never be or I call your name, or calling all girls, or I want to cook closer? And have you do you have a relationship with Greg Williams where you two have talked about collaborating. I just always wanted to know was there a direct relationship with the Switch camp and the current de Barge camp. I'm scared of this question can be as this question. No, No, I'm just playing on this planet. Oh, I'll take me serious. I'll try to be a comedian at times. I try it anyway, but anyway or a break. It's a real question. It's a real question. I didn't know and I didn't know there was watering under that bridge. It's cool, it would love funny, but listen, uh Switch, it's not. I don't feel some type of way about it or nothing. But um, I mean, I love I love Greg w I'm just like a brother to me. They're out singing, Okay, put it this way. Sometimes when I'm out doing concerts, m uh, unbeknownst to me, the promoters do this. So I look up and the next thing I know, switches opening up for me. Oh, they're trying to force it. They're trying to, yeah, force a booment. So I did I did hit him on something? Okay, yeah, a matter of fact, it's happened quite a few times. And uh, I don't know what if you think they're trying to say, tell me something? What I mean? Do you feel do you feel like it would be sacrilegious for you to sing your brothers songs? No? I do sing my brother So see that's that's the cool thing about it. I do it in my show. And then we switch opening up for me a double oh conflict of when I do it? You know I'm gonna bring it right? I don't know. I mean, so we got talked because no, no, there's no there's I'm gonna be cool. But what do you think? Have you heard something? You're you're the show? Well, no, it's it's I just recently and shout out to a DJ soul System for bringing back the the switch movement on Instagram. Um, I will I will say that I saw one clip, but I didn't watch it long enough. I guess I didn't want to watch it long enough to get disappointed. But this is what I do know. I do know that Philip Ingram, his voice is in mine for him and maybe eight year old a mirror. Is this dreaming of the day where that Ingram voice that met the Barge voice meets again at some point in this lifetime? So that was That was my lofty way of asking. Has that ever come up in the last twenty years? Like sometimes you have to be blunt with me and some things go over my head. I got you, but know you know what, that would be great. I would love to sing with Philip. Philip is Philips, I like, I love his voice. Yeah, he's a master. He's a master. So how was how was the door opened so that you guys could also signed the motown in Bobby Um, he sort of tricked me into coming out here because I really didn't want to be uh in the group. I wanted to stay in Grand rappidents. Don't ask me why, but I did you know? I was young then, so he said, well, hell, I need you to come out here and just play for my second album, uh I call your Name album. So I was excited then, you know, because first he was saying we were starting this group, the Bars. I can't be in the Bars because I'm stuck in the contract with Switch. I never really wanted to be in the group Switch that loan, That's what I said. He said. My dream was to have a family group, he said, but the extent of our contract picked up the option. So I want to do it through you guys. He said, Hell, I want you to be the lead singer. I want Bunny, Randy, Marty, so on and so forth. I didn't want to do it, so Bobby didn't want the group to get started without me, so he put it on hold. But he got me to come to California when he said, help me with my album. And I'm a Bobby the Barge fans, so when he said help me with my album, I was like, okay. He wanted me to play the piano. I was like, oh, shoot up, play piano. I don't switch the album. So we got me out here and he said, okay, I'm glad you're here. Now we're gonna have a eating with our managers, Germaine and Hazel Jackson. So, um, I need y'all just sitting wait for me while I had this meeting so we're in Jermaine's office. It's this big, beautiful white baby Graham piano. Man, it was pretty so me or Anyboddy Marty James was even out here at the time. We looked at it. We started playing, we started singing. We saw about two or three songs, and then we heard hand claps and we look behind this Germaine and Hazel standing there and Mr Gordy mm hmm. And that's how Bobby had tricked us into an audition. Have you ever seen an office? Have you ever seen the office when the walls opened up like a door, like at all and then just opens up. Now, I've seen that at will Smith South. Yes, I've seen it in movies. Yeah, So that's the where was in Germaine's office because I didn't even know what about he was in there, so we saw it was a wall. It offers me. So they were standing there the whole time to all open and uh, that's how we auditioned. And so I'm like, okay, he got me, Bobby, and we was on the road. Then everybody made me feel like, hell, you gotta do it, Come on, you gotta do it. And I've always wanted to just stay in the background. For some reason, I never wanted to be lead singer. I never wanted to be out front. Why are you so shy about that when clearly you're the leader. I'm brave, That's what it is. I'm brave. I UM a lot of things that I might be reluctant to do, I'm still brave enough to do it if I know it has to be done. I'm not that person. If it's gotta be done, I'll bring it. So I saw the big picture. Then I was like, well, I got to do this for the family. But to be honest with you, I'm glad I did do it because my mind I changed my mind down the line somewhere, and I was happy there that Bobby saw fit to uh trick me into an audition. When you talk about working on that Switch album, did you do the vocal arrangement for them that we are sending you this message to the intro that is that you um are you playing on it? No? No, not that one. No, that's uh Eddie flew Allen and the group. He ranged that. Okay, okay, but I played piano on I Call Your Name and uh should yeah, just a little bit. Bobby then Bobby took over and played Pierre, I love you. Bobby can really play piano, and he was really he was really good. It just hit me what I forgot to mention. Um. I was talking to Jimmy Jam right before, about an hour before we did this. He told me that, without no doubt, you know, of course he's worked with literally everyone by now, but he said that, without no doubt, you are probably in his top five favorite clients that he's ever worked with. And he said that especially he said that you would often, um, just sit at the piano and just start doing chords, and he he himself was just like, you know, as a piano player that you have to admire someone who he was talking about your chord structure. He knew you had gospel training with a little bit of jazz chops, but really like made it your own. And he just said that one of his favorite things as a professional producers just sitting watching you and I guess speaking of like not knowing someone's behind you, watching like Jam would say that often. Uh, you know that that was his favorite thing in the world, like watching you do that. Yeah, that's a big statement coming from Yeah, that's a big statement coming from jail. Yeah. Wow, did you ever play any other instruments like bass, guitar? Was you primarily just focused on piano, um, saxophone, violin and uh yeah, that's about it, saxophone violence, that's about it. Because everybody played the clarinet in grade school, right quarter the clar quarter that I played the clarinet, and look at you, Bill, you are yeah, well and you know what was what was an interesting um so that I did? Honestly, I did it because of my man Susany Pass and Tony Jones were my managers at the time. Man, I thought it would be a good idea. That's the only reason why I did it. But speaking of not doing things, because you can't really see it sometimes I don't see all the way through. And I'm glad I've had direction and I was enough to take it from other people because it was a good move. I remember who's Johnny, Yes, yes, yes, so I circuit too, Yeah, and tried to look the other way. Yeah. I didn't want to do that song. I know that I could tell you. I just know I can tell you know what. Let me expl let me explore. I could tell because in my mind I knew El de Barge And although I loved that song and my mind, it didn't it just didn't go with with No No. But I have questions about that first solo record. But yeah, I don't know. I don't want to skip it yet. Finished finishing point. So for the first solo record, now you go ahead, and I want to hear no okay before okay, before you real quickly, did you want to do the Facts of Life episode? Did you want to do that? Wait a minute, skip your sister's first Okay, yeah, not so yet. I'm here for All This Love conversation. Okay, we're not even on the first record yet. All right, let's go to the first album. How long did it take you guys? Did you guys have those songs are ready for your very first record? People tend to think that All This Love is your first record, when actually that's your second album and the de Barges that came out in one which weird enough, Queen of My Heart and Uh Share My World are originally on that record. Yeah, but what how much time did you guys have to prepare? Did you even have meetings on like who gets the helmet? Like how our decisions made as far as what goes on the album, especially when it's between siblings. Well, what we did, we had we had a project manager, uh Irish Gordi, Very Gorge's niece. Every other day she was the project manager. She what she would do is she would come in the studio and say, okay, who wrote what? Put your names down on this writer's switch, she who wrote this? Who wrote that? So we would all put our names out next to the songs we wrote, and then I would turn into credits whose song what? We had a deadline that we almost never made Share my World and Queen in my Heart as you said, that was on our first record. You're right, it was was record out before the Office Love album. So I put it on, um What's album? I put? I put it on. She put Queen in my Heart on in a special way, and Share my World too, and you put Sharing my World on the rhythm of the Night Night. Okay, wise, because we had a deadline. Now we had another song that needs to be recorded for the inter special Way album. But Mrs already said, nope, you got a deadline. It's not gonna make it on the album because you gotta still do the vocals. It's not gonna make it, and he was real strict about it. He said, it's just not gonna make it on the album. But we needed another song, so I said, let me pull my song from from the first record. It's already done, put it on and just remix it. Right. Always wanted to do that. Okay, I see the the credits and stuff will get mixed up sometimes, like life. When to Stay with Me, you know, it's my name's not on there as a as a writer, but I wrote it. Marty's name was on the air, and uh, I hope that got fixed. It didn't, wow, okay, because Marty just forward everything did give me. So at the time, you're thinking, like, oh, stay with Me is like some really cool filler, and this won't be consequential to my life in the next twenty five years, will it. I think I love to Stay with Me from the beginning. She Marty. When he came to me, he said, hell, I need you to help me write this song, and you have to hook stay with me, Stay with me, Stay with me, stay with me. I said, Okay, Maright, we gotta gotta do more than that needs some variation, right, So he just laughing in my hands and and I started really feeling it core chain started. It just started coming to me. So I wrote the rest of the song and I went in and recorded it on it and he loved it. But my name's not Wow. I just hope that the publishing was fixed at least that much, because nope, And at no point was that considered, like, hey, this is good enough for a single. Yeah, I mean I thought so, but you have to remember Dabars was going through a transition with Motown at that time. I was becoming solo and very good. He was mo Tower was pushing them to the back right, started a lot of controversy. I felt, Okay, no, you're not ready to talk about that yet, not yet. I think, you know, I actually think it's it should be noted that there was once a time where a song like stay with Me it was just like a regular song, like just it was like a B side, Yeah, just like a throwaway, which you know, considering the state of music now, you know that's that's amazing, that to be too much, but you know it was treated like a single though it never was right right exactly now, that was my favorite even when I brought when when I got that record, that that was always my favorite De Bart song side New Guys side note as I say this, for Silent Treatment, one of those remixes we attempted kind of a a stay with Me esque attempt with the one and only L won't get this, but fante about to mimic, about to lose their minds with this with the one and only Richard Nichols singing the hooks. No, we were, I mean back in ninety four where like you had to have like five remixes on the record. Yeah, I have the I have them all. No, No, but way before before One More Chance came out, we we actually stopped it once our boy told us that Big L had used because he used m v P. Yeah, he used it right when he told us that, then we like put it to bed, but we did. There is a Silent Treatment remix completed with Richard Nichols singing in a high fall side and he couldn't sing it. But our whole, our whole logic was like, well thirty bastard can't sing, so this is hip hop, Like just do anything. This back where you could just do anything in the name of quote. This is hip hop. So yeah, I don't have to fund Yeah, bring it back, not really not even a beat, not even a beat. We we we used it for something else, but no, we we we put it to bed. But you know, when Biggie blew up with it, I got salty like damn, you know, but it was you know. Uh But actually, you know what, I'm glad you mentioned her name because what was Iris's like Iris's world? I know, I know you said she was Barry's niece, But what was her role at Motown? Because anytime someone from Motown made an appearance on Soul Train, Don always figured out a way to shout out Irish, Irish Gordy in the audience are watching or whatever? But was she always the product manager? And and she was? She basically she was. She was. She's very musical. She loved being around music all the time. So I guess that's why Berry Gordy keeper as a projects nepotism in the black people. Yes, she did. She she knew what she was doing too, she so she she knows she was doing she was was the appearance with Jermaine and Anyone the first time you guys were a national television you guys did SoulTrain once before you did it. When you're own as DeBarge, but kind of as like, okay, did we do stop don't tease you? You did stop? Don't tease me? And you did. I like it back when that was like maybe a throwaway song or something. You remind people of their past. That's my favorite thing. Just just just in case you forgot you were you were a tuxedo. You're a tuxedo and no jacket. Wait, okay, this is I hope I won't get trouble for this question. But I always wanted to know. So you guys are a family unit, your own motel. Obviously, of course, when you're thinking of the lineage of motown and being a family, of course, the J word is always going to pop up, and you know you're associated with one of those J words, which you're main. But I always wanted to know, like why, because the one thing that you guys rarely did was choreography. I'm so glad you're not mad at me for asking this question, but like, no, no, no, no, no, no no, I take it back when you when y'all did baby, won't you come quick? Y'all y'all had some moves together or whatever. Yeah, but that's the one the one thing that always puzzled me was that I knew that they were putting so much energy behind you guys, But it's like the one thing you were the first Motown act that I saw presented as a five person group as a family. But you guys never had a queer like not since uh, what's what's the child band? Before? What's the boy band? Now? The one that Harry styles was in one direction? Wonder one direction? When I saw one direction? And now in a minute, this feels familiar. I said, fuck the barge. Why you're the first person to draw that comparison? Absolutely well, no, no, no, no, it's just that I'm used to seeing I'm used to seeing five people at doing these intricate things, and you guys never did that. Wait wait where y'all? Y'all in Philadelphia? Able booked me a flight to Philadelphia. I'm in New York right now, I'm about to pull up, about to pull up. But you know what I'm telling the truth, Like why wasn't why like why didn't you guys go through that that? Uh? I guess you could say Charlie Atkins phase of like was that going by Motown by? Now? Like the whole yeah, all that stuff. Okay, Well you know what, I was wondering the same thing. Um, I think it's because a lot of us couldn't dask. Probably I never thought that you knock a move. Yeah, but they brought choreographers in and um, it was like it was a joke. It was a joke. Choreographer started crying. I know, I fell down a rabbit hole where I just looked at every DeBarge clip from even the McDonald's commercials. Everything. Oh yeah, it was. It was so corneous and just noticed that you guys were just to step on your own. Yeah you really think about that video. Yeah, you just two stepped on your own. You're just screwed. Which I mean, it was cool enough. Your your voice were perfect. You guys made up like no one complained, Like I was singing off right, But have you never have you ever seen any of our live shows? Okay, if you haven't. Back in the day, my brother Marty mhm was all over the stage all the time. And I know this had a lot to do with with the core Agy thing because I remember susany pass and very Gordy's saying like this, just don't answer up what we hit from how we we rehearsed. No matter what kind of choreography we go. Marty was stepped out of the choreography and come up to the edge of the stage all the time and start kicking his legs around doing karate and it's it's no secret, you know you do. Just watch them over did You'll see it and uh what that was the thing and it's like, it's okay, so much for the choreography. He would do it all the time and James, Randy Buddy will be looking at him. And then next thing I know, he's standing next to me and I'm I'm singing solo. I'm like, Marty, what yo, I'm what are you doing? Think you feel smarty? Get great? Wait? Okay, slight confession. I had part two to that question. I was gonna ask the second part unless you answer the first part. The second part was definitely your brother Marty. Everybody was to do some crazy well but no, twice twice Marty. I have two clips of Marty where he will whereever, like, Okay, there's a Marty wearing the pink shirt and all this love cover on I was love album cover could be Yeah, that's him. He's right in the middle because I knew that I knew that he was wearing. Yes, that's Marty, Okay, you got it. I'm just want to get everybody. No, but there's there's uh, there's I forget what song it was. It wasn't you where it was a song where it has a guitar solo in it, and it wasn't you wear It? Well, it might have been baby Once You Come Quick. But he took this like Hendrix esque guitar solo without without a guitar strap at that So even then I was like, Wow, he's doing that without a guitar strap. But he was like on his knees, on his back and everything. You guys were too stepping, like doing your regular two step thing whatever. But in my mind, I was like, wow, he's really going over the top of his guitar solo. Likely means this ship come right. But in concert were you guys doing like was it like that as well? I totally forgot that. When we did the baby Face episode, he told us that you guys opening for Luther, and when the deal was on the road with you guys, that that was your your your shows were incredible in his in his words that they were incredible. But I was basically asked about Marty like, did he always do those over the top solos in concert as well? Every show? Every time and every time every time? Wow? If it was, it was amazing because he always say that he wasn't gonna do it no more, and then we'll do it. We have to have meetings about it. Group means serious, means all right, listen, man, you do Rod, Rod, we made a rule we started. Really, you're gonna get it doctor all this stuff, he right back out. Ye oh my god. I've been dying to know this. Okay, this, this is what makes this show worth having. I've been dying to know this answer for decades and it happened just like I thought in my head. You right right. What were those early tours like once All This Love came out, it was our first time out there Moretown. They well, very going to he he tricked us too. We didn't know you guys got tricked a lot in your career, but this but this was kind of this was kind of a cool one though Here we didn't we didn't really know that we were that popular because um, all we did was we got in the morning at six and the Lima was outside all right waiting for us. When we drive up to Bary Gordie's house. We stayed there all day and then the nighttime. Then we'll take us to the studio and from studio to home the next day, repeat the same thing four months and months. So we didn't see anything. We didn't we didn't know what was happening on in the outside world. We were just studio rats man and Mr Gorgie's hour studio sleep. So when we went on on that first tour, man, they were telling us, well, you have to work really hard. The album's not doing that great. Uh you know it was. It looks like on the charts it looks pretty good. It's like it's pretty good to me. They said, well, your your airplay hit. You know, back then there was thing called being an airplay hit. You weren't really selling that many records. But she was just playing a lot, you know what I mean. So I said, okay, they said, so you got to work really hard to get these fans to come out. Uh, you know, do the best you can. So we get out there, man, We get all the plane and we get ready to go to our first show. No, before we go to the show. We had to go to a in store, remember the in stores. Yes, we think. We didn't think the pipe's gonna be there. They told him, it'll be a few people here. Just be nice to them, you know, because they came out in the snow, so be nice to him. This Detroit, this was yeah, yeah, I knew the story. I read about this and right on the magazine. But go ahead, good, is this the one? Uh some people want to drop something back, like fans going crazy almost tearing up the place or whatever. But no, no, not that, not that I know something happened in Detroit. Not that. Let you know that you guys were celebrities. Well what happened was, um, actually it was New York. Was in Detroit. It was New York. Okay, the snow was real deep, and uh the limo got stuck in the snow. So we got out of walking because they said, well in stores only two blocks away. We walked in the snow to in store and uh, finally the limo pulls up after we get there. He got unstood. So we see all these people and I'm thinking that for somebody else we all did. We was like, okay, you just casually walked up like who we are? Who else is here? What other slave? Because they ain't here for us? We ain't that popular. I tried to walk in the front door. Yeah, and then they we had to get back in the limo real quick. And then they start rocking the limo like this push limo going up and this wasn't the snow man down for us not to be popular, so they tried to tell us that trying to choose, and then we went from not being popular in our minds to having some really really evant, energetic, motivated fans because they was rocking that limo. I'm telling you, man, it was was y'all prepared for that, like Bobby or anybody prepared Like, No, we wasn't prepared for that because they told us, you know, you're not doing too good. But I mean, when you finally when you finally realize you're doing good, you got all these fans where y'all prepared for what came about. We was in the snow um. One of them was pulling my hair asking me for an autograph, and I'm looking up at it like it was literally I was on the ground, I was on the pavement, and then I'm looking for bunny. I'm trying to protect her and she's up with just the car. And then Marty's back there loving it. He's oh, girls, he's hey. And this is pre security. Pre party was busy. Guess what security was busy doing. He was trying to save them. You know what you have you honestly, you had a whole bunch of New York fans. You you know how New York New York, and they're tough, and um security was trying to keep them back from very gates man. They age the security for breakfast. Hell, can I ask you a because you mentioned this earlier on we were talking about growing up and you were kind of like in Grand Rapids you were fighting like the black folks the white folks, you know, because you were mixed. I love that you said half read such an error anyway, Uh, but my question is like, what did it feel like now that people are looking at you and think, y'all the most beautiful, talented people in the world. These are black people, white people, Like, how do y'all mentally? And you just leave at what happened Grand Rapids? And you know what, we always wanted to be accepted, especially by black people. We have we have my mother's side of the family, it's all black. So we for that reason, we like cleave to them because we just wanted to be accepted by black people. Were like, um, because we were told you you ain't black and uh and then white people you ain't white either, a right, you know. That's how it wasn't the sixies and ste real controversy. But um, so when we got accepted by our cousins, you know, our black cousins, and um, that's when we first discovered meet, I'm not black. Black. Black comes in different shapes. For for a while, we didn't know what we were because my mother didn't talk about it. We didn't talk to her about it. We didn't like to worry mom about this stuff on the way home in school, fighting and stuff. She would never know it until one of us was bleeding or something. Uh. But other than that we kept it from her. My dad knew, but um, we had to protect him in the black neighborhood because yeah, we have to protect him. But um, so when we especially when we got with Motown because it was it was predominantly black label it was just probably be black man be around among our people and uh. And then and then um, to see so many people of color at our concerts and stuff, we always had a pop up hill. Um. It just came natural for us. So you know, uh, we were cross over anyway, but a lot they had to do with color too in that way, which is yeah, yeah, yeah, like like what they said, like Brandon almost worried you. Oh, don't be hating now. I'm just laughing because you can't say that in like yeah. But you know, and my brother Chico, he was real adamant about it, what he was coming. He was like he's young and me, but he talked me about the world. H you know, hugh h u e. He said, like, you man, different shades of of one color, that's where we are. And uh but that was a real man. That seemed like a big thing to some people, but it was a really big thing to us. And so you know, like to be around uh, dark skinned people, man, our people was like and they accepted us. It was like he wasn't on things and I'm just yeah, you black, said yeah, but you just don't know where we came from, where we went through. To hear you say that, man, it's like I almost want to pay you, well, I wanted to ask the question about particularly about the song all This Love. Was that written specifically for Marvin or was it just influenced by Marvin? Um? It was written for Marvin. I wrote it, Um, my brother d you know the way we right, we were right off of each other vibes. Randy was just sitting next to me, and I love Randy so much. Man, that's my that's my cat. His personality, his spirit is so beautiful. Man, if you ever be around you know what I'm talking about. So um, just because of that, I just felt I had some problems. No one could see the South any me, just like that question out of nowhere, the word and the feeling, and I remember it felt so good, so I felt like crying. It was just felt so good and um, and Randy said, man, that sounds like something you should we should write for Marvin. Man, you know you should write there for Marvin. So I finished the song and uh. I took it to Mr. Gordy and I said, I wrote this for Marvin and he was like, no, no, what So Marvin never heard it. Jordan Barry, he shot it down. Marvin Mary Well though I found out that Marvin did here when I met Marvin. I found out he did here what Marvin's What are you saying? What Marvin's Well, he only heard it because somebody at Motown had got it to him. Uh okay, I'm not going to mention on names. I know who it was when I can no nobody somebody got somebody sleeping the shot out to her. It's forty years after the facts, right, well anyway, um, but by that time it was on our album. And uh so when Marvin, when we did the Motown that's when I first Marvin and he picked me up like this. I don't know if you ever seen the pictures of that. He picked me up in air like he was like wow, really yeah, And I was shy, man, you should show me. And I was like like a little a little groupie. I had my head down, Marvi, gay, this is aldi bars. I was like, h you know. So he picked me up like this, he said, so this is the young man. And everybody says, sound like me, you're gonna get me trouble boy. Wo. In fact, you see your pictures, they're on they're on they're on the internet. Right. He got me like this way up in the air, off my feet. I have a question about the All This Love record? Um, you know again this of course in eight two this this could just be like an everyday thing. But I mean, these are monsters that you have on your record, on your record, like first of all, Benjamin, what was it like working with Benjamin? Well, even before I get to Benjamin right almost did you find the producing just or at the helm of producing this record? I would assume that your brother had a lot to do with the first record. What was the meeting that changed the personnel and the process on All This Love that was different from the first record? You did because I knew what I wanted and um, it seemed that nobody else did. Um. I tried to work with other producers, but the songs was going in their own direction and and it was it wasn't a problem with them for them. They knew it too. Fact, a couple of producers said, hell, you should do this yourself, as um, that's the only way the song is gonna stay the way it was born, that you have your own ideas, and um, so I wanted to produce it myself then, but uh, Moltown wasn't gonna let let me do it. Um, they said, no, you don't have an experience as producer. You on you doing so? Um. It was because of Stevie, wondering to this day, I thank him for that, he he um. He told Mr Gordy, Uh, because Stevie heard he came to the studio a lot and he would hear what he was doing. And so I said, Steve, they won't let me produce it though, So he went to Mr Gorty. He said, if you don't let these guys produce it, you we're making a grave error. He said, because it's very special what he has and you should take a chance on him. Let him do it. That's what he told me, sty And they did because and it was really because Stevie had said that, you know. And I just thank him for that to this day, because from that point on I was I didn't really know a lot, but but I learned it as I was going along. My brother Bobby taught me some things. But there's something you have to get from yourself, you know what I'm saying. Quest nothing get it from within you, within you. And I had to find and what that was through trial and there. Really it was going to be a mistake or not. It's just just what it had been a mistake because it was something I had to do at the time, did you know. Okay, So first of all, like Benjamin Wright is doing horn arrangements and stuff. He did like the string arrangements on uh, Michael Jackson's Off the Wall justin timber Lake, Yeah, yeah, and yeah and justin timber Lakes, Yeah. Right. But I mean also with like uh, I mean it's not often that you see like, uh, like Russell Ferrante's name from the Old Jackets or Freddie Washington the you know, the Aready from Forgive Me Nots and Forgive Me Not right? Even Rick s Guy, Daniel Lamel. How did you get all these monsa, yeah, Ricky Lawson and Ali Brown Richard, you had all the monsters on this record, which I know in two that was like that's whatever. Everybody was at the top of their craft. It's yes, we're in a we're in a place now one where there's such a draft of talent that it's just mind baffling to me that all these great talents are on one record when to them it could have just been a Wednesday Thursday morning check. But how did you even did you have relationships with these musicians in the beginning. Yeah, my brother Bobby was responsible for that. Um, he knew all of them. He knew, he got his Ricky loss Room, Ali Brown, U Leon and Google Chancellor, right, Harvey Mason, they know some stuff is doing guitar solo and all this love, right yeah. Him and Charles Ferring, Yeah yeah, him and Charles Farring. To be honest with you, Charles Farring played the solo first. Okay. It was Iris's idea to bring Jose Feliciano in on it. He was on Motown at the time, right, Yeah, he was on Multown. Yeah, sign Yeah, she said, let's just try him. Let's try. I know we got trials doing the soul already, but let's just try and see what Jose could come up with. So we blended the two. A lot of people don't notice we blended them both together. Wow, man, Carles and Jose plan at the same time at the same time. A lot of good time players find out figure that out when they try to play the souls. Easy. But it's not one. One more question. So I know the name, I know that even she did well, she's listed under vocal arrangements. I'm assuming that maybe background or whatever. I don't know, but the Linda Howard that's mentioned here, that was Linda Howard formerly a high energy correct Yeah yeah, wait what song was it? Though? Um, I don't well, it just says, uh, vocal arrangements Linda Howard. That's just so random to me. I only asked that. Linda Howard is the first person I ever wrote a fan letter to when I was interesting. Uh no, it's just listed on on the album not not. Okay, I get what I get. You say, yeah, okay, So did you have a did you have a fan crush owner? I did? Yeah, I mean I was. I was a high energy fan actually, speaking of Motown, even even though some some person sort of ate the energy up in the room for that particular night, Um, I will say that, uh, you know, for a lot of us also are our favorite moment on that show was the kind of DeBarge high energy mix up of He's a Pretender and I forget what song you guys did? We did can't Stop Together? Right? Exactly? What what was it like doing Motown? Oh? Wow? Well besides Marvin oh no, I know, can you imagine all of the talent that was there? It was tense too. It was. It was tense because, um, we were kind of like almost working on CP time because because it took five hours almost get everybody together. Susanti pass is so great, man, I mean she the relationships, the way she deals with people. People didn't want certain artists didn't even want to come back and do it and be a part of it. But Suzanne, with her graciouself, she was able to talk them into doing it. So because of that, time was getting away from from us as a lot of them decided to agree to do it at the last minute. Michael didn't even agree to do it until until the last minute, right, Yeah, So you know, imagine you're gonna schedule of time is television, you know how that is. So it was a lot of tense, a lot of tension going on a matter. It was everybody was. It was crazy, man. But I didn't even know how it was gonna turn out. The day we actually did it, I was like, is this gonna where things shot separately or was it shot concurrently? In a row? It straight concurrently? Okay, yep, straight to man, Yeah, I got that dance step and at that time, no, you know, I was gonna bography. Can I redeem myself with the daography, I redeem myself bography. Yes, seen a real love video, real love video, Yes, I've seen it. Yes, you you know you got it together. You don't say something, say something you got you couldn't dance. I just say, y'all didn't work with a choreographer. That's all. A big difference, big difference. We should have mentioned. I like it. I mean I don't want any classics. I like it. And the process of writing that song, um brandy Um was playing the bass over and over again, the boom boom boom boom doom boom boom boom boom, just over and over again, and he kept singing. My brothers they do to me all the time. They they have one part, they sing it over and over again and then tell me to finish. So randy, but and I don't mind doing it. But um the lucky number seven, that's where he lucky number seven. Let's go to Vegas. Um. So anyway, that's what he had. And then, uh, you know, I wasn't gonna leave it like that. We had to come up with a verse, and then we did. So I've been thinking about you. Why, you know, it just felt right man, I love writing with Randy. He's his spirit just makes you want to write. So how we came up with it? Okay, I was going to say that the process, I like, it's one of those songs in which I think there's two totally different verses. It's almost like the Saturday love thing. Yeah, totally different hooks too, right, but it's it's still but it's somehow in my mind, I feel like it's two different hooks, two different verses, but it's just reinterpreted different. And I actually I actually admired that process, like, oh, I hear what you're saying when we brought back to the first verse to second exactly exactly. I admire that trick and I wish I could master that. You know, Chico told me that he was the first one I told me. He said, l you only one. I know that I can do that and pull it off because I did it in all his love too. Wait a minute, yeah, God, you're right if you just sing it different. Oh man, Okay, I didn't notice that tool. Right now, I want to ask you about just your writing of creat enough love me in a special way, because I just I love that song that was just um had like a lot of memories to that as a kid, like what was that? What was that like? When you made that? I got good memories of that song. I was driving on Freeway headed west one on one. I was on my way to Billy Preston's house. Oh, why traffic jam? And that song just hit me. You would you know traffic jams in l A. A song like that's not supposed to hit you. Something mean is supposed to. But that song just hit me, man, and uh, the chords was in my head and I couldn't wait to get the Billies. I said, I gotta, I gotta get to a piano. So I remember getting off the freeway and trying to take the streets because he lived and drive way up in the canyons. And when I got there, I said, Billy, where's your piano? Man, I gotta play this really quick before it gets out of my head. And I was playing the courts Love Me in a special way, and seeing just the melody that I had at the time, I said, no, this is it sounds too gospel. You. I ain'tn'ta do nothing with this. And I looked at Billy and Billy was crying. Man, I'm not crying, but he had a tear rolling on his nose like this. I just looked like this. I remember looking like this, like what happens? Like why is he crying? And he said, man, that's beautiful record that man, please record, But I couldn't the song as we hear now as we heard it. You played it for Billy, the song that we hear it? Right, Yeah, that one. I did the same thing with Time and Reveal. I didn't think it was I thought Time Reveal was too corny. Remember I told you at the beginning of our talk sometimes I can't see all the way through. And because you know, he's like, I like it, but ain't nobody gonna like it? So Chico said, man, are you serious? Time Reveal? That's the business. I said, it's too corny, man, nobody want to hear. What can I do to make it? Because you know Rick James, you know, give it to me baby and all that stuff. So I like, nobody want to hear this. He said, Man, just do me a favorite. Just recorded for me what I said, Okay, that you know that you're the I'm sorry. Who's whose decision was it to give James his looks for in a special way because he got more lead on I'm So old School on side one, uh, you know with with be My Lady and need Somebody. Well, yeah, James, Uh, James is always Dan's to his own bet march to his own beat. Um. He wasn't in the group at first, you know, on the first alf right, on the very first right. And uh, I fought from my little brother to get in the group. I worried Mr Gordy to death about it. I passed him every day. I started putting James on songs and let no sing so Mr Gorey could hear it. And finally they signed him up. He was buying all this love and when he was in the group, but he was just uh, I don't know, Uh, he just Marcy was on be He's just different. I like it what. James has a really nice tone in his mid range, but he doesn't like to sing there. He likes it go up high and yeah, kind of piercing. Yeah, James. He did a record, um, and I know we're getting it. James did a record, I mean years ago with DJ Quick called the Divorce Song. Yeah, and I heard the song. I thought it was you because I just heard it I didn't have the credits in front of me. I was like, yo, this is I was like killing this And then when I saw the criss, I was like, oh ship, this is James. James right right. So many times baby, I ain't got mane a food to you that I due east. There's nothing wrong with my kids, so we can get along friends. Yeah, for for the in the Special Way album, especially with toring behind it. I know you guys toured with Luther Vandrows. What was that like? Amazing? Luther v Androws was like the uncle and the papa. Uh he was. He was the coach, he was the principal at school. Um, we was like his little brother said he was like the whole time we were out with Luther, he was disciplining us and teaching us to rote. I mean we got on stage a minute late one time and he find us dollars damn waft thousand dollars. He comes collecting like he looked for that. Like after he's saying he'd come back and be like with my money. Well yeah, yep. But see the thing is we were in union halls, you know. Oh it was doctor him ah and he said no y'all gotta pay me. You can you can't. You can't be on too late, you can't get off too late. And the Union hallsman, and then Radio City Music Hall that's when we that was the biggest fire really time a lot. Yeah. Riddle City Music Hall was thirty dollars Jesus because we got on late and went off late and they pulled the plug on us. And then Doctor Yeah. So we learned our lessons the highway. But Luther was like, he was so cool with us, man, he I'm telling he was like his little brothers. He was cool. He would take us out to eat every night, make sure we knew the ropes. He taught us everything, man um. He give us points about our show. And he would tell Marty, no, Marty, you need to come down, you need to come down, and of course it wouldn't want here and I'll see you, okay. So a dream ah probably you know, I mean of of your arsenal. I mean everyone has their favorites, but I know that A Dream is is somehow like in most of our just fans like that's always in like their their top three songs. I know that was written by your sister, But what what was the process of putting that together. Well, Bunny would always again coming me and asked me to, uh, you can music to her songs. She always had all of her melodies and she would even have instrument parts. Sometimes. Bunny was amazing. If she could play the channel she would, she would be amazing. Um, but she had this part he's like, but she said, I hear that. I hear that. Everyone to like translate everybody's translator. So then she but she had the whole song of melodies and every you know. And then so she said, now this was this part, you know last night I dreamed you. And when she got to this part, now here it is right here and a flash yo. So we figured it out. So I had to write all the music around that. You know, I didn't know back then that music had writing the music had anything to do with. So I thought, if you wrote the music, you just wrote the music but had nothing to do with the songwriting was not ignorant. You're gonna You're gonna learn one way or another. So I learned. I learned. Well, yeah, man, she still this day one of my favorite songwriters. So how how shocked or how pleasantly surprised were you when in the next ten years or fifteen years, that these songs would find new life to them where it's like, you know, and even though we're talking about just a choice for you with with a dream, stay with me, I like it and all this love. But I mean, it's been those four songs alone have been utilized at least like by three to five different hip hop classics, like I would love to know what Funny thinks about I'm mad at you? What does Bunny think about that? Yeah? A lot, I should hope, so so tonight, I'm like, I like you, Well, I could kick myself anyway. I didn't just give it. I don't understand, and they knew you wrote it, you know. Yeah, wait wait that's on the next Oprah. Okay, But um, I like you. You're very focused man quest I like you would well, I mean, at the very least, at the very even at the very least, even if you didn't get to read the the you know, the the monetary highs of what those songs could reap in. Yeah, I mean, at least it's brought timeless. You can perform those songs, Those songs would never die. Do you gotta remember me, I didn't you're asking me, what did I think it will go? Just five? Remember me the one who didn't even want to record time and Reveal because I didn't. So you know, I'm shocked of all people because I didn't even think time reveals or love Me in a special way was with great songs. I just thought of, man, love me in a special way, that's my one. I mean they're like nabies to me. They're like my babies. Do you feel about your kids? All of them? All? You know what I mean? Yeah, Now your vocal arrangement at the end of love Me in a special way man, like that ship is. So that's just a great song. That was my watch talkers influence absolutely special way, you know the quick Yeah. Actually, okay, So when you're when you're giving these like uh, these mammoth vocal performances in the studio, like how much pressure is it too? Because it's just hitting me, like from until the day you die, everyone's going to expect you to sing, you know, so love like like at the end of the time with revel you'll have to hold that note forever, Like how even now it's exact, Thank God your voice has been fine for But I mean, are there times where it's like a collective eral, like God, can I do I have to hit this note? Or do you just now? Are you at the place where you just let the audience sing those parts? Oh? No, I'm never at that place. Yea. My voice is cool, it's good. Um. I don't have no problems with m at all. So um, you know, all glory to God. But I was beautiful and I'm glad I don't because I love singing. I love singing every note that I've ever saw on the records. I love singing. My brother Bobby um just to blame for that, he taught me to end the song in a way, go out with a bang, don't end it. Don't act like the song is ending just because. Then he said, keep it going. He said, build a song from beginning to the end. He said, the moment it becomes uninteresting, uninteresting, you're losing it. You know. I don't think because the first was great, that that's gonna crazy to make every part its own signature, you know, getting to the end. And that's that's why I do it like that. M okay. So for Rhythm of the Night, was there a basic strategy like was there a strategy, meaning beforehand that okay, we must take them to the next level. Now, like let's get to that next level. Yeah, and what was the results of that. It was with Diane, Diane Warning and I we we were good friends, you still, I mean like that, Well we'll and um. So we're hanging out a lot, and she was always writing songs. Speaking of that first first solo album that we never hit up. But so Rhythm Other Night came about. She was just well Susan Anti Pass and Tony Jones I managed at the time, and they said, we need to take them to another level, just like you said, we need uh, we're trying to build them and do this and that. So Diane, I need you to write this kind of song. I didn't even know what they were talking about, but she did. She got down and she just wrote that song and said, here you go. She's that bad. Yeah I know. Yeah. Why was that the only video that y'all shot? Because that's I think that's the only Diard video. There was no you wear it well, Well, there's no video for you were it well? That's Moltown was ready to go out. At that time. Moltown was declining at well not decline, Well, they were, they were where going You're about to see exactly, So all the budgets was being pulled. And see he saw he knew before he announced it. He already knew during the rhythm of night what he was gonna do. But the artists always pays the price. All right, Well I wanted to know. Okay, So this also starts the period of your career, which now these particular ballots, and you know, I can say the same with love always and also with like someone where you know, these are more pop ballots, which I dubbed them, but it kind of starts with who's holding Donna? Now? Right? Did you did you? Did you like that? Because you didn't write it? Is it different when you don't write a song and it's just given to you? Yeah, it is. It's different. Uh, how did you feel about it then? As opposed to now, I was paying attention to to uh, the people that I felt new what they were doing. Um, you know, I was new to this business and I had management and for reasons, so I was listening to him. They said, try this, Uh, keep your mind open now, trust me, I know what I'm talking about it. So I did, and I could feel it the whole time that it wasn't where I was at. You know. But despite it being a hit, despite being a hit, yeah, and a massive hit at that Yeah, despite it being a hit, it wasn't where I was at. Um I was just saying, where were you where the song wasn't like where were you where I was at? It was a hit, okay, so that's where I was. I was I was with the hit. Now, I was hit with that, you know. That's that's where my mentality was. That's where my drive was. But there are there are other there are other kinds of hits. Uh. I wanted to write my own hit. Uh, and I could have still did. Uh Who's holding down? And now? But um, I was completely moved from writing period anything on that album. It was like I was discouraged. Two. I wasn't encouraged to write. It was like just let somebody else, right, even despite the fact that you you had a great track track, But in their minds it was like those are blackheads. Those don't count. Like you're going for pop right now? Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, I know that. It's and if I knew what I know, if I knew then what I know now, but I can't still because I kind of hit Yeah, I felt it, but I well, maybe they know something I don't know. And uh, is that song is still a part of your repertoire? Now? Do you still do that song in your It's like I feel mixed emotions about it because when I when I, whenever I do it, I'm wondering, is is anybody feeling this an audience? You know? And uh, but I know when I do the other songs, I you don't have to say anything. I know you're feeling it, but I haven't had the proof because pop to me back then was like a facade. It was like it wasn't real. It was like it was like something that was made up, Like pop was the idea. Yeah, and it's like and they played a lot of games with the paola and everything. It was like hot was the word they used to hide all that behind. Like you couldn't get any real, any real figures, a real chart, real real ratings, you know what I mean, not on paper. So I don't even know what was There was a pop chart and they had numbers speaking truth that was an error where people was thinking the same thing. You weren't alone, I mean because you know, black people, there's a lot of us, man, so it can't be the pop means popular, right, Well, it was just five was definitely a sync or swim moment, and you know a lot of acts were just a lot of acts were going on under So it was like the type of black music was sort of like in a Titanic position, which either got down with the program or you got ran over exactly exactly. And I and so did you feel that way about rhythm Other Night? Even though I love the Mother Night? Really Mother Night was the business. I loved it. Oh, I'm glad you said that. I'm like, wow, because Donna, now Donna, I was a great song. I love who was Johnny? I love Who's Shanny? I just didn't want to do it um at that time. I don't know, I don't. And also I was a little younger too, so it was like a fun song. And I and you got your own weird but you actually Peter Wolf, How did Peter Wolf get into the because I know he wrote that, Yeah he did. Peter Wolf was actually it's very strumental in me doing the song. He talked me into it. Come on, you got do you do? I mean he was fake. Well, I knew it. I was in the mike. Yeah, but I was saying it. I was saying it was like a proper toe like who he said the other way. But when you hear it, it's got a lot of energy. That song has got good energy to it. I love listening to it. You know, you know that weird solo in the middle, Yes, exactly what the solo was that the little scatty I don't know what that. I don't know it was a vocoder or that was you or something. No, yes, I was. I was a board for that, even though you know it was to and if you love the movie with your boy in Indian Face, yeah, I forgot that was associated with Short Circuit damn. Yeah. Okay, so wait okay, So Fante asked you earlier about the Facts of Life. So that's my sentimental favorite because when I first got a VCR, that's probably the very first thing I recorded, was your I will never go ahead on the facts No, it's I will never ever ever have anything bad to say about the Facts of Life because I love the girls they were. They were so cool, They're so cute. We were like family. We stay cool even after that. For a long time, and plus that was my first time acting with George, was right? I was on, I did I was on. I did something with George Clooney. I acted with George. That's right. A lot of people don't know that there. Yeah, So the question, were you guys supposed to have a bigger role in the Last Dragon or did I read that wrong? Were you guys actually supposed to be in it as opposed to just Vanity playing the video? But I could have sworn, like I first saw, like uh when they were talking of the movie being made, that you guys were actually in it. I don't know if that was correct or incorrect. I don't know, it's possible, Okay, Okay, I didn't know. It wasn't never awkward that Susan the Pass was management and she was so connected to Motown. I'm sorry, just yeah, yeah, it was that a conflict interest at all? Yeah, it was. It was. I didn't know it at the time, but that's what I was experiencing. I was experiencing a conflict adventures the whole time. Yeah, but I didn't know. I didn't know that's what it was. But that's what I have huge experiences of conflicts adventures. In general, are you in a good place, whether her now or yeah? I was then too, Yeah, and uh she she's guessed that we would like to get on the shows very much. Yeah. So in general, Like, what was it like working with her? Um? An education, um constant reminder of uh, the worth and the value that you have. We never left her presence, and same with her cousin Tony Jones. They were management together, both of them are never left their presence feeling low. You always felt extremely great about yourself. Uh. You always had a better sense of who you were. I mean this was every time I was with them. Okay. So man, so what was the process that finally ended? Uh, at least at the time the lineup that we knew of the barge in that led to your solo career the next year? Like how did that was their conversation had or was it just like, well, the work ethics were majorly different between me and my siblings. I was always in the studio and they were rarely showing up. Okay, So motown saw that brought Mr Gorgon's attention and in the hting, you know, I saw more moretown people showing up at the studio. That should have been signed to me there and they were just always there because they were reporting back all that every time that the family wasn't there and how many hours I was there. So Mr Gorey basically made it up in his mind before I knew it. We did full session together as a group. The album ready to come out came out and my picture was this big on the album cover, oh see and on the design no small. I didn't Moltown had done that. They had already begun their Eldibar solo process. As you see. Um didn't talk to me about it, didn't talk to anybody about it. They just started doing it. Man. That calls from problems at the time. It couldn't have been a thing where it's like, Okay, I'm gonna do this one solo record and then we'll come back in the eight seven and make something else together. And see, the thing is, when you do a solo album, you don't like group said they do a solo album. One of the might do a solo album, but they're still in the group. But it's different when you when you put el DeBarge with the barge uh and uh. And then my pictures to Vegas and then the rest of years are small. It wasn't like that before. It's gonna be some problems. Who did that? Who did that cause the biggest problems with with you and your family? Oh, he's funny put you on the spot. Who do you take a guess? Wasn't it wasn't Bobby, Bobby, wasn't there James or come from? I can remember it was. I mean, did he Marty basically spoke with the rest of them. I didn't want to say, but he don't have no problem with speaking his mind, but it wouldn't be doing interviews, and he would in the middle of the interview. I don't know where he was saying, this is not Els group, Barge and journalist. But did he not know that wasn't your decision or design? About as much as he knew it wasn't a good idea to be kicking around stays, It didn't matter. He was gonna do it regardless. Yeah, wow, you know so and m It just got that way, man, and it was inevitable. I had to go solo. It was really became inevitable then because I wasn't just gonna stop because what was happening. But you see, I couldn't do anything when when when the Red Company owns you, both collectively and individually, individual stuck out. You have to play ball, but you're just gonna be shelved, you know what I mean. So my number one question about this record is you didn't write not one of these songs, that one the first solo of IM's all right, Yeah, why did you not? You know, did you not have anything of the pike or like, oh no, I had songs written, but I was told you got not to do them. I was, oh, we got some songs from other writers that we want you to sing, and uh so does that stifle your creativity? It put a damper on my spirit and man and your confidence. Yeah, because I really didn't get no explanation for it. It was just like, let's do it. Wow, Yeah, don't you know what I know, Like the average the Barts fan won't maybe not listed, but you know, at least with me, someone and love always are like those I don't know, like I just love, I love the ship out of the songs. Even though you didn't write them and they got much play on black radio, it's still you know what I mean, Like it's kind of hard to argue with it because I love those songs, but still, you know those are those are the exceptions of what I of my list of likes, and don't like Love Always Someone and even Who's Going Done and Rhythmother Night, and I don't believe that you always have to write a song. You know you can, you can explore other writers. But this was the case where you know, no, don't write, let somebody else do it. Was that was That's that's a different proach there. But love Always the great birth backer at and Curl Bear Sacer. Actually, man, no, tell me if you can hear this, because Bert told me that he pattern that song after all this love really so burnt and Corron specifically pattern love Always after that's some ship. I'm sorry I can't hear it, understand, but they patterned it off of his song and he wrote but he wasn't allowed to. But the irony, well, no, not the bird. I'm bird. I'm talking about the later old town some motown talk about Motown, yeah, okay, back and ship and I'm not king not thinking about I don't know who the idea was, but I don't know. I can't point finger in anybody. I just it is what it is, but it was an honor. These are some of the great things that happened that makeup for some of the not so great things happened to have birth Bakaret sitting in front of me telling me something like that, I mean, you know my birth Bakaret, Okay, I mean I love all this Lars, I love all this love. And I wrote a song Carol and I and we patterned it after all this love, and it's called Love Always. And I was like, really again one of the times I didn't get it, but I got it. I was kid, could you hear can you hear that? Because I've been listening, I'm like, well, I mean, I don't see the pattern. Though I don't see it, there's texture. There's texture. That's the first year the d X seven came out. So even though you used the real no, you used the real Friend of Rhodes. But it's it leads. It leads with with a well processed, roads sounding thing. But know error right, are like, it's sound like that that lead ballad from the movie Tap, But yeah, I feel love with that song the first time I heard Yeah, it's wait, did you did? J Grayden uh and Peter will produce that first record entirely the first album solo? Well what else? Most people wait a minute, Peter, Who's Johnny was on the Rhythm of the Night? Now? Who's Johnny? Know? Who's Johnny was on your your first solo record? It was right, No, But working with Jay Graydon, who's like, who's the A and R at Motown that decides like, Okay, this is going to be your producer, And did you at least get a I don't like this song, I don't like this song? What else he got? What else he got? That sort of thing like, I don't know who. That's the thing about it. When we talked about the conflict of interest right between Tony Jones, Susan Andy Pass and Motown. Okay, that whole I don't know who it was, just to let our listeners know. Jake Graydon like everything. Yeah, just like George Benson that that mid eighties George Benson, the Breaking Away record and all that stuff exactly. Yeah, like he was involved in all that. He also wrote after the Love Is Gone for Fire. Yeah. D But Jake Grayden, I do like him. No, he's he's he's a good producer. Did you know Jay Graydon Uh. He produced the song on me and the song that Prince wrote that Uh, I did with Kenny Rogers You're My Love. Yeah, Wait a minute, time out. What's the connection there? Okay, Prince wrote the song for Kenny Rodgers and wanted me to sing the ad lives around it and Jay Gray and said, well, he's not gonna do it unless you that you've seen Oh okay, okay, so you're singing on that. Yeah, I'm singing around him. I didn't know that. You know, I've not I've heard princess demo of it. I've not heard the actual beautiful final Kenny Rodgers one. I gotta look that up. Yeah, it kind of come in halfway through the song and I'm singing around him and Jake Graden and he did a good job with that one. He did a good job. He's a great producer man. Okay, question, since you mentioned real love, is real love directed at someone specifically? And because you gave in that song, there's two obvious references. There's there's kind of a Janet reference and what I assume is a Jody Whiteley reference. It was that? Was it directed to someone specifically? Wait? Did I hit it that? I hit a nerve, you wrote the lyrics, you wrote the song. Okay, now look at Okay. You can always say I can't answer that question too, like you're not obligated to answer. I don't mind answering. Wait, did I hit on something? Because I don't feel like really, I never once felt that Real Love was just a random song based on those lyrics. I was like, wait a minute, that's a reference to data. Dada, that's a reference to data that this song is about someone? Am I right? Yeah, yeah, you're right. You turn this into a new show. It's like quest left song detected right now. People, I just did the radio ram fist pump in the air after I won the radio battle. Are you if you cannot if you cannot name the person, what what can you tell us about that song? It was? It was it was puppy love at first and uh and my other first person to asked this question. Yes, it's sad that obvious though, Like, how come knowing has ever bothered to ask you this question? But it's not my relationship. I just about somebody else, never mind your brother. Who Oh, okay, I I thought you were being a inncessory. I thought you're being akindom for you. I'm just no, I'm just making it now so obviously that okay, I'll stop talking. No no, no, no, not like that, not like that. I'm just I'm making it more mysterious. I don't want to kill the mystique of it. Just like talking to a mirror. This was like, okay, very securitous, because I mean, you know, we really said it yet, so let them figure it out. I think you think they will. Oh, man, I wish I just knew now I feel like Fonte No, I think I know it is okay, saying said Sid, who do you think you said that? I'll admitad Janet and James Jr. Your brother. Okay, there it is all right, so so so album, so so, the Gemini album, nice secte, thank you? So the album you everything? You're writing again? Now, how did you get the reins back? How do I get I would say, how did you? How'd you get the reins back? Like? How did you get control back again? In terms of writing your own material? Well, let me see, in terms of putting it on the album, you mean right right right releasing because I don't know actually, well you know what motown a new staff came into Motown. Actually a new staff did h under the direction of Deborah Sandrich. She was head of the in our department at that time, and the eight I department took over all of the recording sessions. They so she she came in. She as a fan, so she was like pro al and uh so I was back. The kid was back, baby, it was. And you know remember that the air. That's that's when new Jack Sween was kicking in real high. Yeah, man was kicking you was kicking it to bring it back. Let's make a lot of David Judy from Time, because you're life the duty from Time, Life, my prerogative microphone. I was getting you know, that's the last time you jumped up from the drug and started Dad. I think I'm not making it fun. He was taking it. He I wouldn't know Bobby Brown and Michael Jackson, but you know I did look Speaking of back, speaking of back, we have to mention back on the block. Yeah, yeah, yeah, kicked myself. Yeah, I forgot about it until right now. Can you speak of that? It's that that whole experience. I think I've seen you guys only perform that song once on the I guess the Soul Train Awards. But what was that what was that process like doing that, doing the song and just working with James and and and Barry White and yeah, I'll be sure it was a trip because Quincy, he tricked me. There seems to be a theme going on. Go brother, Yeah, you're seriously, I guess you know, just call me a trick. Okay, are you trying to tell us that you thought this song was all to yourself? No, but I did. I did think that I was doing a warm up in the mic. Oh no, guys, I don't know. No, but wait, this this is not the first time we heard the story. Besides, besides performing late at night, Quincy's world famous for just like even your warm ups are being recorded. And okay, is that what Albi Shure said too. So two other people said this about Quincy as well. Oh it was it was great feeling games he said on the on the One Ways solo, he was sleeping in the studio and students. Uh, Quincy was like, hey, come back later, and they just woke him up and he played that line and that's that's what made it on the record. Well, you know what, but Quincy said, Quincy himself said that you get a better honest performance when the person doesn't know that they're being Yeah, yeah, but you know. And then again, I'm guilty of being the professions too much. So we probably would have been there all day. I remember we were up for two days over before we went in the studio writing the song. We were at Rob Timperson's house and I was nervous because he had that all his rock rollers. They were just walking around but trying to write the Secret Guard rock Roller. I'm looking an old boy? Is that what? Nice? But and then uh me inside of Garrett and Quincy we just up. I mean literally two days. You eat, take a quick nap, and get right back to write because he had a deadline he was trying to beat. Then we went straight to the studio to sing it. I was like, you're kidding me, right, Quincy, We're gonna straight to the studio to sing? Well, you play right? I'm playing? What was he um? What was he working with Quincy and even Rod? What were they more sticklers of in terms of songwriting? Were they really like big on like melody or was it lyrics like in terms of words which would be what would they be kind of be more particular about No. Everything, everything, um, every part was equally important because the wrong word within a verse could throw the vibe off. And then when he came and singing the wrong expression of it, of that word while you're seeing because mass the whole verse up, you know. And it was the same with Quincy. Was like that with musicians to is you have to have a certain personality about your plane, and you had to be it had to be a personality when you play, you know what I mean. You have to sing on the base, you had to sing on the drums. It was just everything was just musical and movement. Him. Did you uh did at the time? Did you know from the gate that you were writing a song for three other singers in addition to yourself? Did you know that you were writing specifically for al and for James and for Barry White, not not for l because it was supposed to be for Michael. Michael was supposed to do it. And uh word, yes that I did not know. I thought it was gonna be me, Michael, James and Barry White. And wow, I don't know what happened, I can't remember, but wow, Michael, I could imagine what happened, but I'm glad we're not on a video. Wow. Uh no, I just had the process process that because if you listen to als verse, I mean listen to als verse. Yeah, yeah, you know what he said. He was a stylist, alright, was a great songwriter. Ain't she talked about it? She's really had her on the show too. Yeah, yes, she's she's boss. Wow. So was the Soul Train Awards the only time that you guys performed that together as a forsomforsom? Well, sorry as Albi sure, James ingram Al DeBarge In, Barry White. Yes, the four of you like better the four horsemen. That even makes it worse. No, no, it's okay. Um, yeah that was first time. It was the only time we did together. Yeah yeah, okay, never mind, that was a moment. That was definitely a moment. So with uh with through the storm, in the storm and in the storm, forgiving in the storm. Yeah, well one you you left Motown and moved to Warner But what what finally made you decide to go with Mary's White as a production partner on this record? Lack of confidence? Um? And where and where I was trying that? Elm in the storm is. I wouldn't say it's all over the place, but it's many fastest of my influences. Okay, honestly, my brother Bobby and Chico had just got locked up and those were my your rocks. Yeah yeah, okay, and to just stay cheeko. And I was still like that. But I was lost, man, I was lost, and it was like they took him away from me. And uh, not to mention what they were going through being locked up, but you know, I don't want to sound selfish, but I really needed them, and uh, just just for me. You know, I know how to write, I can write with him, but I just needed them for me. And I was hurting because they were hurting because what was happening to it. So it did something to me. Quest it did something to me, and uh, and I'm the type of person I'll never let die. I'm never gonna give up. It's it's it's not in me, so my determination to keep going. I ran into Maurice White and the album was almost it was already recorded, but it wasn't finished. Um, he heard it and we both thought about it at the same time. It's like I could tell he was thinking of the same thing, was said, Maurice, you gotta finish this with me. Man. He said, all right, little bro, I do that. So we talked to Warren Brothers about it, and we started to budget it all over again. I was shocked at it was a whole different spin from he started to budget all over again, and uh, we did it, man, and Marisa was Benny Medina? Was this the Bennie Medina era of Yeah, and Benny was? That was my man? Thank you, Benny. Man. It was great working with Maurice White Man. I can't even get into first of all, you know, I admired him so much, and uh sitting next to him, you know, he really he really did have a Uh no, I would saying he really did have a blow. He always had this light, this light space man. I mean every day he was like he was just just glow was on him. I'm talking out wisdom. He was full of wisdom man, so spoken, and he knew what he was doing. Man, Man, you have you probably I don't know if you even remember this, but you have inadvertently given me one of the greatest pieces of game about the music business that I don't even you probably remember saying this but a good, real good friend of mine, my brother, my collaborator, Eric Roberson. He was signed to Warner Brothers at the time. I'm guess it was around the time that you were promoting in the Storm, and um, he went out with you on a promo tour. This is I mean, god, man, this has gotta be like nine two. I mean, this is you know, forever ago. But um, he said that he would just that time working with you and touring with you because he was signed to Warner But I think he just had like a single out, so it wasn't like he was, you know, up on the totem pole or whatever. But you know, he was just out touring with you. And he said, man, he picked up so much from you while y'all were out. And he said about that album, which is interesting to hear you talk about it now. He said that he told you like, yeah, um, you know I like the album. It's it's a good album. And he said that. Your reply to him was, well, I mean, yeah, it's it's it's it's not just a good album. It's a money album, and we make money albums so that we can get to make good albums. I was like, God, damn that ship real, you know, I mean so to hear you describing that way, and like he told me his story and again I have I don't know if you remember this at all, but um he was telling about how you were doing the show and it was something with um, I guess in sound check and the engineer wasn't getting the sound right or whatever. And you know, most artists would like be you know, be Hollerman and just be going off and ship. And he said, you know, y'all were sitting there, and he said, you just kind of talked to the guy and just went over and just you know, fix the sound and like open it up. And he was amazed that you knew how to work the board like that. He was like, yo, it all really knows this ship. And so he said, afterwards, man, you came over to the you came up from the board, and y'all were sitting down and eating dinner and and he said, he asked you, like, yo, well ll like you know, how did you learn how to do this? And he said, you told him. Listen. Man, He said, I could go. I could while out and be all crazy, he said, but if I did that, I wouldn't be able to sit here and have this mill and have this fellowship with you here if I was trying to do somebody else's job, you know what I mean. And um, you know, man, it was just and I mean this is Eric he told me these stories. I mean, this is gout ten eleven years ago. I mean this is you know, a while back, and it was even before then, but he just I just always it made me even more of a fan of you, of just you just really being a class act in that way and just always kind of seeing the bigger picture. And um, that was Those are two pieces of a game that I've carried with me, you know, throughout my career. And um, I just want to thank you for that. Man. Man, that's that's amazing. Man. I really, I really thank you for telling me that, because it's good to know that I put some good things out there like that, you know, and you just reminded me, uh, some good values of things, you know. Thank you for that. Thank you. I do want to know, like what have you looking looking back at at your four decades in this career, what have you learned? And like do you have any regrets? Because oftentimes, and you know, I know that you've you've been open and transparent about succumbing to narcotics and whatnot in your career. And but the thing is that you know, I also didn't want to paint this as a I don't ever think of your story whatever, as a tragedy story whatever. I know oftentimes when you're doing press or whatever and news things and like that's the first thing they bring they bring up or whatever. But just in your four decade journey, what what what? What? What can you say that you've learned that you still keep with you today? And are there any regrets in in in your journey and everything that you've went through. What I've learned is that's very important, has played a very imp roll in my life. Was um, this business, this this this show business that we're in. Um, there's life first, Hm, there's there's really fans are fans are borrowed? This fact quest Love fans, Aldiebirds, fans, Michael Jackson fans like fans are borrowed from one city to another, from one show to another. I've seen a lot of entertainers, well, yeah, a lot of entertainers. I've seen a lot of entertainers, So you have to they tripped they don't know how to handle the fame they tripped. Uh, you can tell they got in it for the wrong reason, you know. Um Uh, it breeds a lot of jealousy. That's a breeding ground for jealousy right there, and as they call it, hatred and hayden. But fans are broader before their fans of people and every everybody. Everybody needs love, man, everybody needs love. I don't know it. It's hard for me to look as people as fans and groupies because I see I see people, I see souls and Uh, what I've learned is that, um never never never get there. I'm trying to explain its right, Whenever always, always, always be on your way. Never arrive where you think this is it. I've arrived on Yeah, never never do that. Always be on your way. Even when you reach what you intended to be, the goals you intended to reach, still still be trying to get there, you know, open, you keep your mind open, you know. Um. I think that's a lot of the reason why, Um, while I'm here right now today, I'm even sitting with you, you know, uh, because like you said, you mentioned my age already get into this show. That's cool. But in all of these years, I'm here and uh and I think each generation can be accepted and they can accept you. It could be if you just look at people as people, not not fans and groupies. You know what I'm saying. I'm saying because I've I've heard this a lot from other entertainers. Man. Groupye, there's groupy that. But the people, man, you know, and if they're supporting you, and without those people, you wouldn't be who you are. Call them bill payers. But there's a need. There's a need, especially now with with you know, so called pandemic going on, there's a need. People have needs, man. And when you're in a position where you can reach a lot of people, what you're gonna do? How are you going to treat that? You know? What you what are you gonna do with that? You know? How has the pandemic um like, you know, being kind of being at home and not being able to tour and go out, how has that affected you? And what is that giving you time to kind of reflect on over the past year or so. Well, it's good. It's to save money. Listen, that ship real it's like a whole another dawn income. It don't hurt. You're gonna don't hurt and have something put up Amazon, Mamazon. But you know, thank god, I haven't gotten you know, the virus, but I know some people that have. But you know, I'm wearing my mask and I stayed away from people. You know, six man, But a large family have like a bi weekly zoom Like how do y'all stay connected? Which how did we all? Was about to say, with kids now and everything and grandkids, like yeah, yeah, we all go. We have my own places. You know, my children, they they on it. Man, They only worse than I am. Dad. If you you weren't, don't come over without you. Man. But I just question Chico the Bars Chico's album Longtime No, how involved I totally forgot how involved and were you in the production of the album. That's one album I'm most proud of. Very I was about to say, you were there, Yeah, Chico, Chico came and got me. Um that was during my time of my my narcotic situation. And uh, Chico came and got me and he said, oh, I need you to produce this album with me. I'm signed to Kadar's I'm gonna come up with the album money. So It woke me up, man, because you know she goes my man. It woke me up, and it gave me a something too to do to live for, you know, to a reason to want to come up out of the rut that I was in. And he got me back in the studio. I started seeing the microphones again, started getting that feeling again, and the key boars, and the sky was limited with him. He said, whatever you want, man. We had so many keyboards We've rented in the every keyboards everywhere man outboard gear, and you know we just consumed that budget. Man. But love still good? Do we do? We go? Love it still good? Good? Yeah? Egging me well, chic or not? Can I ask the history of making me? There was always a chatto and we always keep the tape running all time studio, no matter what, so on record something is so. Chico got the studio late this day and I was already there playing these cords to egging me. And then when Chicold walked in, I didn't know it, but I heard him in back and me singing, and the microphone was right there in the control room. That was the gist of the lead vocal right there from the control if you notice you hear me in the background saying, yeah, all this stuff. They tried to compress it out, but it's still there. But he wrote that song just standing over my shoulder singing while I was playing on scores. It just it just flowed, man, from the beginning to the end. Yeah, it's like that, and then um love still good. That was very very personal with him. I didn't about the brother line. I still every time I hear it, I tear up. Yeah. I didn't even come to the studio that day when he did that. He said, he said, I want to be in the studio by myself today. I got something something I'm going through. It was a heavy Marven influence on that one, too, like real kind of trouble man. You know. Yeah, but man, that was a great Album's Yeah, when you when you talk about you and your brother, because you know both of y'all have had, you know, your struggles like with addiction and stuff. Uh, how does it work in terms of a you know, at the time, you know he came and kind of pulled you out, and then is it ever a time like say, if he's down, you know, if if if he's if he's not sober and you are sober, Like, how does that work in terms of you and your brother? He knows he can come to me any time. My brothers In terms of the drug situation, the sobriety thing, I'm not really around them that much. M h. I'm kind of doing my own thing, you know. But ye know, I love him all. I really do love them all, and I'm there for him and you know that, but I'm not really I'm not really into that where they where they at? And is that more of a protection thing for you? Kind of like a self preservation thing, like I gotta stay away more. It's more people growing apart. It's more people growing apart and their lifestyle and my lifestyle is you know, I'm still pursuing my real date. Are they're cool? Right? In the industry, who do you count as your your your friends or your inner circle as far as the industry is concerned, Like who who have you been able to lean on? Uh? If it's not your family? Like as far as like industry, people that are that are your tighten it with? Nobody comes to mind right now. I'm just kidding. Um, Darius mcquarie is real good for the mind, real type. Uh. And Uh. And I don't have a whole lot of celebrity friends that that I hang out with because you know, we'll be tripping. I like keeping it one hund keeping it real and uh, you know when I go home, I look in the mirror and I see a real person and you know, you feel me right, I feel you, And it's hard for me to be wrong people they're looking in the mirror and still see somebody else. But um, but there are some real people in this in this game too that they keep it real. You know. You know what I'm saying, questions, you know, and h quests. That's one of cast I hang out with. Are you and Quick y'all still uh? You'all still deal with each other? Were quickly school? Quick? Uh? He's been doing um some touring and uh, especially with this pandemic. Man, I am hardly see nobody. Um yeah, mean Quick or cool Man. Okay, So I guess my last question is what is your next statement or when will your Well? First of all, congrats one. We didn't even really get to stay that much or talk at all about a second chance. But even with your you know, the Gammy nominations and whatnot and and making a fine records. It was a great record. Uh what are your play And as far as uh doing anymore music material, I'm going to you know, I'm have to put something out soon because I'm in the studio all the time. I'm always recording. I'm not recording the album, you know what I'm saying. I'm just recording songs. It's matter out, I know I'm saying. Right, you can just put out one jam or two. Yeah, right, it's whatever. Now it's perfectionistess in me is hold me back. I gotta let I gotta loosen up. It's hard to I got songs, man, I mean recent songs, and uh they're bad too. They're bad too. They're bad man. You're like, let's let's go, yo. It's never a time when we're not waiting on songs from you, Like never, Okay, exactly, here he comes. I'm coming with it. I'm gonna come with it over then I'm gonna do uh do. I'm gonna do some touring as soon as it's back up. Yeah, I was gonna say, how were you pleasantly surprised by the kind of feedback that you got over that that clip of I was I would say that you don't. It was a last minute decision for me. I said, okay, I'm gonna do it. And uh, where was that done? It was in a record shop? Where was it? Was it in California or I like, and he's done a record shop, record shop slash studio, slash entrepreneur. It's right here, just placed on me in right now, okay, okay, yeah, I love Yeah that clip? Was that? Was that that really real rap? Like no bullshit? That concert that just you know, that imprompt with things you did. I was a lot of versuses to Shane, Oh really, man, you did do versus? How about have I did the voices with Jetty? Stop playing? I mean the catalog is is different and it hurts much, but how many? It would be interesting now but y'all might have to tell some stories already. Yeah, we gotta have some stories. Well, I mean, I'm just trying to think of something interesting, you know, right. But yeah, but even more than versus, I think just you at Offender Rhodes just singing like and then the way that you know, especially with you know, Prince's very last concerts were in that way, which was just him and the piano. It was something really intimate about that, and I feel like it's something that's like super needed right now. So I hope that when this world opens up, you know el de bart, you can that's interesting do that. No background singers, no bof for because you gotta have real chops to do. You gotta be able to play. Honestly, I didn't know anybody would be interested in that. Yeah, we love this. You one when you have a catalog and you could do cover songs and you could do your brothers, like, yeah, I beg of you, be a long show. I beg of you. Whoever talks you into the comeback thing and all right, let's audition band members and no I need my background singers. No, I'm telling you there's something so magic just you alone. Think about how low that overhead is, Bro, I think about much you keep on a on a computer or southboard. No, man, we'll singing that. We will be singing for free. I was thinking all the harmy you did all this, man, I was singing all the harmies with Bro. What not only not only will the audience sing it, they'll pay this, like they'll pay trust me, you get to keep all the money trust me on this. But yeah, we all trust me sing along with elder bars. That's big. Come on, my sistant able. She always tells me that all the time, and and other people tell me that too. But but you're just getting here, Like, how long have you been on social media? Now? He said, how long? Oh? About three four months. That's why he feeled his way. He gotta get his gotta get his legs. He don't know how much he loved me. I had the account. I just he was just there right, yeah, yeah, I beg of you. When when this world opens up, just you by yourself at a piano, just do a limited run. See how the trust me. That's what the world means right now. Look, we can keep you here for twelve hours, man, but you know we we've had you for the longest and you're in the studio right now, so we'll let you create your magic. But I thank you from the bottom of my heart for even for real considering this. When you when you d m me, I thought I still even though I knew it was you, I still thought it was fake. Like I had to ask a couple of people like, wait, this is a real el debarger, this can't be Thank you, man, Thank you for everything. You're truly like one of my favorite singers man than I thank you on the behalf of me and my father and all the sundays we spent listening to all this love like you have no ideas the soundtrack of this whole life, Like just thank you and everything afterwards. But thank you told me to tell you that, yeah, man, and just your story. Man, it's just you know the way that you just you know, keep persevering and you know you just keep surfacing and keep coming back and still sounding great, and you know, you know you fall down, you get up, you keep it pushing and um you know we we we love you and appreciate your brother. Just thank you father that you've contributed. Man, thank you, thank you. Come on, these flowers and your face. More flowers, Bill flowers, greenhouse. Let's do it. I bought the rhythm of the night when it came out. Steve, we left you out of this. I'm sorry he's been talking the whole time. He talks too much. That was on mute. Yeah, shut up, Steve, alright on. Behalf of the team, Supreme Ya Fantigolo, Broke Bill and Sugar. Steve. I'm quest love, Thank you very much el de bart. We're definitely gonna work together to bro. Hey, I can't thank you very much. I appreciate it all right, And this is another classic episode of Quest Supreme y'all. We'll see what the next go round another one. Hey, this is Sugar Steve. Make sure you keep up with us on Instagram at q l S and let us know what you think you should be next to sit down with us. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast. Much Love Supreme is a reduction of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Questlove Supreme

Questlove Supreme is a fun, irreverent and educational weekly podcast that digs deep into the storie 
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