Boyz II Men (Part 1)

Published Nov 18, 2020, 5:01 AM

Welcome back to Questlove Supreme. Here is what you know about Boyz II Men, they are the record breaking, multiple award winning, best singing group of our time. In this episode we dive into the unknown through the reunion of old high school friends Questlove and Boyz II Men. Listen as Quest and Team Supreme dive into the REAL (uncensored) story behind one of the most successful and consistent groups of all time. Take a listen to the true story of Boyz II Men...part 1.

Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

Question. Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio. Uh yeah, okay, but his real name and a picture? I mean that's what is Mama Phone? Yes? I remember? Okay, alright, Well, ladies and gentlemen, what can I say? Our guest today are the pride of my hometown of Philadelphia. They are, in my opinion, and I'm very biased. They are simply want to be finest, most talented singing groups in history. Uh. They have made classic records, they have broken records, and when those records got broken, they broke records with their own records. Three singles, three singles single handedly have occupied in number one spot for forty three weeks in a row. That is no small feet to just spread out through three signals. Um. Only two other artists in recording history have achieved that feat. And know his name isn't Michael Jackson, Elvis and the Beatles. You know to be alive to watch Beatles fans cry over into the road record breaking Beatles, that was one of the most craziest days I've ever seen. We can call them the last true R and B group. We can call them the forefathers. We know that every any any group of individuals that call themselves Boys Band. They know they owe this group everything from and sinc to BTS. They owe them greatly. Please welcome to Quest Left Supreme. Finally, the one and only Boys de Mena. Finally, because we only got one call. Wait, wait, wait, this is this is gonna be you hey, you know what type of we're high school like, Yeah, it's gonna be real. Fante had to look at the face right now. I'm all right. The jal Scott episode went somewhere, the music episode went somewhere. Boy, and this is this is this isn't real age. You don't get like, you know, we only know one way to talk to each other. This we actually wait my first question. People are dying to know what the hell did y'all do this sudden impact. I don't know what we did that wasn't I'll tell you what I'm playing one of what we did. We tried to save him after Mike Vimins got rid of him. We tried to sign the Stone Creek and Philly and took him over the top of the toll and he said, all hell now that somebody named the Backstreet Boys came out and then they disappeared. Wow, thank you, I can tell it's gonna be a classic interview already where you guys right now? Assume that? And I know you guys get tired of asking like when people see you individually, like we're the other group, as if you're attached to the hip. Yeah, like we're conjoined together right right, because I can never be nowhere without used to get you know, right exactly? So, were you guys right now? I'm in l a Ones in Vegas and and uh nikes in a big old house in Tampa, Florida, sitting by the room, big old house like anybody else, everybody else in the big old house by lake all right. I see when when Okay, based on the reality that we're living right now, when's the last time that you three were physically in the in the room at the same time. I want to tell you this, Yeah, Mark, But I'll tell you one even crazier. When we left each other in March. By the time we got to May or June, it was probably the longest that we've ever been apart from each other since high school. That's what I was gonna say. What has this been the biggest break that you guys have had? Yeah, without a doubt, without seeing each other or talk. Yeah. Physically, yeah, we went on breaks, but we saw each other. We hung out one show, you living around the corner, stuff like that. But like physically being apart for this long, it's the longest miss the hell out of those niggas. So how how does that affect? Especially when you've been singing together for so long, for so consistent, how does that affect you? Like? When I hang up, I'm about to We're about to do like our first route show in eight months, and I'm actually nervous about it because like, like we're gonna have rehearsal, which is I mean, we did it so much that the automatic pilot was good, But like, how does it when you're not in that rhythm anymore? Like, how does that affect? I mean, you don't know, you never did it. It's never happened before, you know what I'm saying. But but like you said, you know, Googles have been together for this long, and you know, working together, we we pretty much know our roles, we know what roles we play, so you know, I'm pretty sure it's more it's it's auto pilot as well. Um, it's just you know, getting in the room together and you know, remembering our notes and the steps and all kinds of stuff like that. That's the only thing. But for the most part, man, this is this is weird. You know what I'm saying. It's definitely weird, but you know, we got to make the most of it. Is this a welcome break? Most most artists that I talked to say like, this is the first real sleep I've gotten. This is the first like I mean monetary issues aside of worrying about you know, how your life is gonna be affected. Like, is this a welcome break or is it just like I mean, I think it's more into rule that that that that question to be answered. I mean for me, I think, uh, two months, that's that's a welcome break for me, you know what I'm saying. But after two months, I'm ready to see that I'm ready to you know, be where we where we are, you know, ready to get back on stage. I'm ready to see my brothers. I'm ready to you know what I'm saying. You gotta have that that that energy flow of people that are like minded around you and and create the same way and think the same way musically around you. So after two months, I'm like, Yo, it's I gotta, I gotta do it. But you know, it's it's it's welcome for about two months for me, I don't know about everybody else. Now you're just anty to get back to yeah whatever, I mean, yeah, I mean, it's it's the same. So I think we were all due. There's there comes a ceiling that you know, you tour after a while, you know, you want to say, Okay, you know what, let's let's let's fall back for a second and kind of like you know, look at our houses for a little while and go food shopping and do regular normal stuff. Because I think with us that that's the balance that's required for all of us. We've we've never really been about and you know what's in there. We've never been about all the the you know, the spectacle and all the other stuff that just came with the job. But for the most part, you would see us driving down South Street, you know what I'm saying, like, you know, in our cars getting some music or you know, getting some food or just hanging out or whatever. That's just what we like to do, you know. And and and the stage is is just another persona that when you know, when we're on stage, we go off what we need to do and this thing, and we jump around and we have like fools and then after that, you know, we're back to just being normal Shawn, Wny and Nick, you know what I mean. So you know that that's that's always been the ebb and flow and as it should be with most artists, like you know, we we require both in order for us to feel whole, you know what I'm saying. So you know, so, so it's it's but yeah, it's it's I miss it. I think guys missing, Um, we missed being out there and performing because like I said, it feels like it's half of us that's kind of missing to some degree. You know. Yeah, we'd like to be home. We like to chill on all our stuff, but you know, we don't go out. We like to entertain. This is what we do. One thing I was curious to though, I saw y'all. Y'all came to Riley Man. This is probably like ten plus years ago. This is a minute ago, and y'all performed, and you know, it was outside and y'all was in the suits and the choreography I think y'all were doing like the Motown. Uh it was cover records, y'all done, and um show was amazing and we all like we loved it. I was curious to know how do y'all preserve your voices after all these years? Man, because y'all still sounded exactly like the record twenty plus years later. I think part of it is exactly what we're saying earlier, is like we haven't really been away from each other this long. I mean, I played the fifth on the other topic. But the fact that we've always we we sang all the time. There hasn't been months that have gone by we haven't sang or we haven't performed. So you know, it's like a muscle. If you work it out all the time, it'll be there for you. And because we've never really ever been separated in our whole lives, we sing almost every other week or so. And I mean definitely in the last five years or so, we've been extremely consistent. I mean with with Vegas, we I mean there's probably not a week that's gone by in the last five years that we haven't sang What's up Go. It's in consistent what you're doing now to make sure it is well. I mean we still we still think we just don't sing together. I mean, I'm sure you know, we know each other's personality, so you know, we're singing around the house, we sing on stuff we create. I mean, we just we're just singing. I think we're just It's funny. When we first got started our role manager of years ago, Kylil, you know, we would sing so much that every every time we would sing, he would pull out a cup almost as if you know, you guys trying to sing for some coins or whatever, because you know, we we hadn't quite been successful in so it was like, you know, you gotta learn when to tone it down and when you know, you just can't sing all the time. But I think that's one thing that he never really could take out of us. So over time, you know, it's just something that we've always done. Okay, real quick, what you mean by you plead the fifth on the last question? Then I need to Oh, no, we'll see again. The difference for me is that, unlike you guys, I fled before we did this. For the last five years, I fly almost five thousand miles a week for Vegas. So when you talk about needing time away, I probably need a lot more than you guys do, because I just it's just too much for me to do. I mean, I'm flying east west, east west every single week, so it's not it's not for that residency. Yeah you were doing I live in Florida've been flying back and forth for the last five years every week. And are you still Nate? Were you still doing your show as well? We used to do you see? See, the thing is I'm answering. I'm answering question because I know what he's saying. It's like I just needed clarification because you know what I'm saying. I just met clarification. I don't know, but that's what I was saying. It's like, you know, it's not it's not it's not the group per se. It's just when you get it. My my grind is a little bit different than you guys because you guys on the Wedge coast right there, thirty minutes away. You know what I'm saying. But when you gotta wake up at four or thirty every every or Thursday and Friday, fly out every week and turn right back around, and that's not counting what we do during the week. I mean, yeah, you need a break right, I get it, so that means natives, James Poyser and a mirror. I was like, I'm gonna be in Manhattan. I don't move to Manhattan. James is like, no, I'm gonna go further down, further down south to Delaware and drive every day for three hours. All right, I get it down. Yeah, that's try about it. But you're about right. This This leads to my next question. So you know I was I was immersed in my particular culture at Creative and Performing Arts High School. Uh. For those that don't know, um, yeah, we always have never made it, never made it, never ever made it. To advisory sat right next to me. I know he wouldn't. Man. The thing is, The thing is is that you know, there's I don't know much about the singing culture at Creative and Performing Arts. So my particular experience there was all right. First of all, like I had a kind of a bloods and crips uh environment. The bloods were like the jazz heads. So in order to get Chris and Joey's respect, I just study all the forties jazz to let them know I speak their language. Right. And then on the other side, Kurt Rose Winker. I don't know if you remember Kurt Rosewinkle, but he's like, yeah, he's He's a massive deal right now in the in the world of jazz. So he would try to force me to unlearn all the old ship that krist and Joey wanted me to learn. And then I'm going behind both their backs and doing hip hop with Tarik kind of like whatever gang was winning that That's the side I was on. But what was what was the culture for vocal majors on the fourth floor? Oh I can, I can, I can, and like take me through it. I could break that down because because honestly, I wasn't in any of them. Because when I could, y'all would break out in song. Yeah. Yeah, here's the thing. When when when I came in, um y wasn't in yet. I came in six, and why I came in a seven and there was a freshman okay, and I and I came. When I came in, you had your clicks, you know what I'm saying about. You had your gospel kids, you know the ones that just straight up saying gospel all day, every day, all day, you know what I'm saying. And then then you had the cool kids. You know what I'm saying that Nate used to hang around like no, no, no, no, no no no, don't even do that. No no, no, no no no, don't be right, be right, let me don't I don't be right. I did not hang around them. They hung around me. Let's let's not even you know this out No no, no, I need that, I need we gonna clear it up. They hung around me because most of them was from North Philly, and thank you, Cappa was in South Philly. And you know, the Blumbo kids will come outside and try to beat our asses every day because we could sing and dance, right, and I didn't have that problem. A lot of those A lot of those dudes hung round eight, as he says it, because you know that that was the cool kids. That's my neighborhood. So they don't want to get their asking How real? How real was the plump because again I was so when you're in that basement, you could hide all day and nobody would miss you until right so I was separated from all that ship because we just stay in the basement. How real was that pullum? Bottom line is one of my friends got it that was broken by the little kids. Yeah, okay, here here, don't don't listen, plum all right, let me know the plumb Let me, let me, let me, let me explain to you. I got you little kids. They're big brothers were from the projects. There you go, there you go. So they lived in my neighborhood. I went to the school because I was local. Most of the other guys went to school because they were from Northeastern Aid was a magnet school. So when they came down, you know what they little you know, so called Gucci shoes and whatnot. My my neighborhood guys wasn't happy about that. And then they would be in the school and they would mess with the little Plumbian kids and they go tell their big brothers. And by the end of the day, the big brothers be waiting outside and I'm the only one that can walk outside and I have a problem. So they all around me. They was like babies kids they kind of money. Yeah, because they're still had to be split high school that we shared them. It was their bigger brothers. I got you. So it wasn't the actual a lot of little kids, but they was causing the issue though. Well what it was was the school was. It was a big high school, one of those older schools, and you know, it's a it's a neighborhood with no money, so they split all high school in the same building with lower grade kids that were like seventh and eighth grade, so they won't trying to build it. We on the other side, those upper crusty so called Kappa a choir people that like the you know, mess with little broke kids, would call them all kinds of names. They go home and tell their family and then they have to deal with it. That the school. But you know, you know what name. It wasn't always them calling them names and stuff. It was the fact that we were that that the the you know, artists are eccentric, you know what I'm saying. So we walk different, we talked different, we act different, you know, and they and I'm not gonna I'm not gonna front. I mean, of course there was some interaction. I'm sure the interaction escalated it to be what it became. But the thought process behind it is there was a lot of kids in that school and the fact that we we all had to interact at some point in time, whether it was crossing the hallways, I'm sure there was a little bit of eyeing and things like that, But when you left the school, you're not thinking that what happened in school is going to you know, I'm thinking that. So when you walk outside and you see all these dudes standing on the wall, like did he go right there? Or did they go? It didn't even have to be that person. It's just they wanted to make sure that they made themselves known and seen that this is their neighborhood. And y'all gonna have to run if y'all come out here. That's where anyway, I digress, I digress. Um back to the to the vocal culture. So you had the so called favorite I just said the same thing you had. You had the so called cool kids right there all hung out with me and um. Then you had the geeks right, the nerds, right, spazoids, the horrible You were in a dweep, Nah, I was, you was pulling yours though, I was. He put the jaws when he got in the group. No, no, no, no, let me let me explain. I don't think I got nothing. That was very true, which is one of the reasons why one of the reasons why I had somewhat of the issue because listen, I was the same nigger when I went into school, right right, I could sing the same I hung around the same people even when I was in the group, the whole nine yards, really in the group. You know that show February for it and when y'all cheat with the Sparkles, Yeah, okay, yeah, you don't really want to cheat. You know when y'all had the whole house business. Listen, you didn't kill that ship for they had sparkles in their hand. If you didn't boce the man, you're going all the way. That's the only way we know, all right, Yeah, to bring our people up to date. There's a Valentine's Day, uh performance in school, and you know this is the moment where you felt like, all right now your instrument was just gonna do it. No, I to you not got beat by Sparkles, No, go ahead, no, but I'm dead serious. When y'all walked on stage, I was like, oh shit, they're like a real group. Like this isn't unique attraction anymore. This is this is like a real group. And the thing was, girls were screaming in the audience like it was Ed Sullivan on the Beatles. Absolutely, and I was like, Yo, but dude, like I just sat next he still might owe me seventy five cents like this still them they're not a real group there, But for that, for that ten minute performance, y'all, y'all transformed into like it was like the Jackson's came to school and ship and I was like, wow, let me tell you dude. Honestly, we didn't really realize it until that. It was. It was one of those things where I think there was the same way you felt it at that moment. It's the same way we felt it and we literally had no idea what the hell was happening. None, No, I mean, it was a transformed the moment. It's it's crazy to bring that up because even like Seawan said, it was girls that you know, I'm pretty sure we all tried to like, you know, send my Holly at normal year, you know what I mean, and basically gave us no attention whatsoever when we were when because you remember, the principal came and stopped it. Yes, he was gonna stop because was like, this is not a concert, this is not remember that we remember look in our poses looking stupid as ship. Yeah, Like that's really weird. I was the only one that remember this moment. I was like, I wasn't even bringing up like you. We talked, we should talk about it on the toll bus all the time, dude, Like why, I said, And Sean said, nobody wouldn't talk to us, dude. We we all had our own little clicks. But when we were doing boys to mental stuff, because everybody in the group in the school could sing, you know, a male could sing, like everybody could sing. It was just like, okay, well everybody could sing. But it wasn't just in the school. It was after school, when we stayed there till ten o'clock at night, or when we went down the subway at ten o'clock at It was all that stuff that that put us a little bit ahead and everybody else and they for us, that's just the way we're supposed to do it. Yeah, we didn't stop at three o'clock. And it was just crazy because those girls man after that performance, the same girls I remember him, Khadija. She sat right next to me right after the after the class and she was like, why you didn't give me a ruse? And I was like, it's why you didn't give me a number? I'm not gonna make it, you know how important it was, like you know, bag up a class and I was like everywhere and I had his life. Alasked me for a girlfriend, like a straight senor, like like weeks after the show, like I had a batty from I'm gonna tell you what's crazy though, when you look at when you look at the whole musical landscape to the school at that time, it's like, you know, we used to try to do new addition stuff like that in sound modern and that was kind of our niche. But like you guys and stuff was interesting to us because it was like our we knew our parents would hear y'all do y'all jazz stuff and be like, we'd be like, that's my friend, Like he's not playing on old stuff like and it's it's you could you knew the vibe because it was like if older people fell in love with you guys and stuff, it was fired. Not that young people didn't, but we couldn't mentally soak in all that deep jazz stuff y'all had going on, so we would just watch and watch older people just lose their mind, like these guys are so deep in there and there you know, they're you know, so rich, and we'd be like, we can't even read have the music, the stuff that they playing. It's like it was, it was interesting. It was you guys were more cultured than we could ever get at that age in our life musically. And let me tell you, let me tell you it's something a mayor like even now like we will. We would tell people in interviews that those four years was probably some of the best years arguably in that school, because so much talent came out of those four years. It was it was something going on, and you talked about the real quick sean, because it's it's common knowledge of y'all. But to the rest of the world, people don't know what came out of Kapita, like he just plus, it was Tarka and our mayor. It was a mellow rule. It was Christian like like there was so many established now established still touring the world, making money, you know, winning awards, the whole nine yards. That happened in that four years and we all into the same school. To guys, Okay, so I came to Kappa, you came in let me, you came in eleventh grades as well. No, but the year you came in. I was already I was already there, right. So the thing was is that the first incarnation of the group was unique Attraction. How did that dissolve and how did it morph into Voice the Men? The first incarnation was an eight five. Okay, that was me. That was none of the guys that you know other than me. So not not even Mark Nelson, No, no, no no matter fact, yeah Mark, No, not even Mark Nelson. Mark was right after that. We had one guy kick out. So right on the end of that was guys you don't know other than Mark. And as people would graduate school and lead a group or quit the group, end the girl, pull them out, you know, how to crazy stuff, you know, I would just put you know, other people back in the group. Now it's funny because Wine was actually picked before or anybody else, but before he actually got in the school because I watched him audition the year before and I knew somebody was leaving, so I was like, all right, well, if he leaving, I'm gonna get that little neigger. So he get in there. He just don't really know how his thing is going down. So then you know, Wine was at it when we had you know, me, Wine and it was a girl and two other guys and then Sean. Actually, again, like Sean said, he kind of had his own little nerdy click. We didn't really know how well he could sing. We knew he could sing in the choir because he you know, at school, don't pick nobody. But he had a solo one year and I was like, I need him. So the next year everybody else left put him in, and then it was me, him, Wine and Mark and it was just us. Mike just snuck in by mistake. It wasn't like we really hand picked the guy. He was. We were singing the bathroom rehearsing. Mike walked past us while we rehearsing, and he went to the bathroom taking picture, and while we were singing, he sang along with what we were singing, and you know, Mike boys, you know, filled up the bathroom acoustics. Right yeah, So it was like, all right, well, you know, let's let's see how he works in here. And then that that was That was what you know, And that all came together around eighty eight, right Sean, Yes, Yeah, so okay, um, for those that don't know what actually I don't know, I know the legend of the Civic Center story. But how exactly did you finagle your way backstage to VIV? Was it a new addition performance? Like what was the actual story that? Okay, it was it was the powerhouse. It was the powerhouse that year. And uh that was the year that um uh bell BIV Devot was actually being announced like they Mike and Rick and Ron went to Philly to make an announcement that they were going to be a singing group to Yeah, but the thing was was obviously Charlie New New Nate Charlie, and Charlie was like, Yo, I'm gonna I'm gonna have let y'all you know, hear y'all sing, you know what I'm saying? And he was like all right, cool. So we're sitting out, you know, front, waiting to show up or whatever. Um he never showed, but we knew. Uh we ran into Teddy Pendergrass's daughter. Yeah, okay Pendergras right, so she was and she was like, Yo, I'm gonna get y'all in. So we got another story. So so so so so yo so so so we okay, so we got it with you right right, So we got it. And so we're waiting around the backstage area, right, so I don't know, and then you can help me out. Who was the first person to kind of Martin Larrence started talking to her whatever, and she was there obviously because her dad. So she had a friend with her and they had one extra pass I guess what somebody else were waiting for. So Mark kind of enabled the pass from him and he went backstage and they were kicking or whatever, and then he borrought one of theirs and came back out gave it to uh one of the guys. Then we kepd of switching the plass back and forth till everybody got back there. And by the time we got back there, Rick and Ron and then was coming off stage because they was actually hosting the show, so they was coming off stage from introducing the group. And when they came off stage, it was like, um, yo, we have Ricky first, Like, yo, dude, we got um you know, can we sing for you? And he was like, you know, y'all gotta tape. You know, tape back then, y'all gotta tape. And were just like, no, I ain't gonna take we could just sing it right now. He's like, well, you know, y'all gotta sit as a tape and then Ron was like, yeah, well you know you'll consinting he writing the address and I was like, man that, so I asked. Mike was like, yo, dud, can we sing for you? Mike was like right now. He was like yeah, all right, cool, and we just rocked in the freaking uh what was it? I came everybody and by the time we finished, Charlie showed up and it was talked about. Look, Keith Sweat was there when we finished. Surrounding us was Keith Sweat, Paula abdul Cherrell all like Will Smith. You know, Will came in after after finished singing. Will came in with the at the jumpsuit yup and and and it's Harry Bone. That's a fresh prince you know. Then and with with y'all and then that's the um. Yeah. What's funny is after we finished, Rick was like, well, you know, y'all still got to send it to take and Mike was like, no, y'a nigga, ain't gotta say me nothing here. I'm gonna be here. Time called me about a week and a half and that was it. Wow, just to hear that story, it's almost like creative Russian roulette, because if it's five minutes, if it's had Charlie Mack showed up in time, it would have been a whole different trajectory that any anybody standing backstage could have had. It could have been a different result that at that moment not to be late. We learned not to depend on Charlie Mack. Hey, you know, I had the same conversation with and he denied. This whole story is that this is no no, no, no, no no no no. First of all, Sean, you know what's funny is that Mayor check this out. We not only did we have to get back stage, we didn't even have tickets to get in. I can't even remember how we snuck in the building in itself. Right, it's quite a few people's story for Powerhouse, though you know, our house is own legacy in that way. But you know what, honestly, we started to realize that everybody was sneaking in the Powerhouse after that, after we told the story, everybody speaking, Dude, I hate y'all for this story simply because then suddenly comes the onslaught of you spend for you quick because they hear the story and then they're like, I'm not having funny if they're doing for us too, And now we'd be like, yeah, there's somebody is there, someone established right now that has the story for y'all? Like I came to your first and y'all in here a lot of people who have us now, who'll music came to us when we were at the Biben video shoot and I didn't even know, I didn't need Yeah, he's one. It's it's a couple of them. Bro, record music gave us, gave us a CD or something. He's on the bus somewhere, a lot of the whole lot of records. Bro. Yeah, I had a con could have had he would have he was writing music for us. It would like crazy, Oh that would have been yeah, yeah he had a voice. Man, Why it happens, Man, happens. It happens. So all right, when the whatever whatever data whatever data stands in your mind for for officially arriving right, what lesson would you tell yourself back then that you wish you knew as as a precautionary tale. I'm only asking this because, all right, I tell people I told someone like I think last episode, I said, I spent my entire events in three weeks, not knowing that that was it, right, I blew my whole advance on like four stopping stopping spreeze and that was it. One lesson? Did you did you wish you knew then the first time you got put on like that first year? Hmm, it's it's yeah, Well okay, God in my DJ lad, Now what I knew? You're in the culture. Yeah, that's all I had. You are not dead. I thought I had my business and order. I thought when my group signed a fifty fifty publishing deal with Mike Bibins that it was publishing deal, and without me going too deep into it, it wasn't. Okay, So you wish you would have fought for that. I wish I wished y'all would have known a little bit more at that moment. Then I knew four months after that because it didn't take much long to figure it out. But it was. It was. It was a life changing decision that if it was made early for all of us at that point, four months, five six years later, things would have been a lot different at different Okay. Uh, Well, to ask, was it was the parting with BIV amicable? It was not at first, I mean, I think to this day where where I think we're better now, But at that time it was not amicable at all. No, it was Actually the funny thing is is he was literally forced to part with us, you know what I mean, because it was it was between boys two men and Big ten Records, you know what I mean. And we were both involved with Motown Records at the time, so you know, he had to make a choice because they said it was a conflict of interest, and he chose Big ten Records. Yeah, I take away from the fact that he had that he had present about publishing and and writers. Was was Gerald Busby a part of that difficult part of it? The time at the time that we we split, it was during the time Town was going through a major transition of being sold to a larger record lab and we were a key piece, were Yeah, and we let we basically let him know we were at that time, we were about nine million records in for eight something like that. Whatever. It was a lot and um, you know, we saw all of the you know, bad deals are surrounding us, and we're like yo, in order for us to kind of continue and make records, you know, we basically very kindly said, well, you gotta fix this deal or else we're not making any more records. So, in you know, trying to fix the whole situation, Gerald presented with the Big ten deal record because we were signed the actually actually that did that. Yeah, that deal was predicated on Mike finding three artists, which he did before we even met Mike. It was set up for him to find artists and then if his artists were successful, he would roll over and to that record label, which the artist was us another bad creation, and at that time mc brains he had three successful artists. But because we were on the back end of that, like Sean said, we you know, our numbers weren't right for us. Gerald pretty much said, listen, I got this deal with you, but you can't be in these guys pockets too. You gotta figure something out because these guys are holding up my company now. So if they don't make a record, I got a problem with you. So he jammed him up, saying, listen, you can take one or the other. You take this big ten, big ten deal and rolling rock with that, or you can rock with them, And he knew we weren't really happy because early on, you know, we figured this thing, like I said it was, it wasn't too far. We figured this thing out about two and a half million records. I'm like, this money ain't right. So we rolled it out four million records, knowing that it was wrong. So by the time we got there, he chose to go with Big Pen because he you produced his three records that artists that was supposed to be you know, we're successful, and then we ventured off. So Gerald made that split happen, or otherwise Mike would still be a part of Boys the Men in some kind of way right now. Wow, So I guess the boy Fruit Punch didn't deliver too much, didn't get out much, didn't get out all right? So who what what's the what's the uh? I guess the the process of deciding what the creative vision is, at least for your records, Like, Okay, you got a record deal, and I know that you know the characters and and Dallas, uh collaborate with you guys, But who decides Like who says that, okay, let's start off with I never besides the SSB, and I don't know many groups that have thrived starting their album off for three ballots. I heard but I was like, wait a minute, don't go boy, right, So you know what it was who was navigating. We didn't have any records. They didn't know what to do with us. They signed the R and B group that could sing and they loved it. But once we made they once we got signed, they didn't have any songs. So, like, you know, all the songs that are on the first album, if you look, we wrote all those in performing arts. We wrote those and those halways and those before we even had a deal. Yeah, before we had a deal. We had those songs done and they were like, Dallas, we're gonna put you with this group with songs you got, Dallas have moretown Philly is sitting around from the Joyce early days. But other than that, Dallas Austin had no more there. So we was like, oh, well we got you know, we do it. So hard to say about it. Actually there's a cover you know we wrote Please Don't Go and Lonely Hard and this like we wrote. So we just start recording them and Dallas put the production, he produced the record. We sung it to him and he sat there and figured it all out and produced the record. And you know those songs that you actually here were already pre written. And as far as the Balats is concerned, you gotta people tend to forget that Moretown Philly was the first single. It wasn't a ballot, right, Okay, Now, I just meant in terms of the record, it's lose the alpha that decides. Okay, this is this is the title of the album. This is gonna be like. Yeah, that was big and I think you know him talking to us, he kind of understood our strengths and and in the album's specifically this this specific album, cool Hire Hardy and the ballads had such a presence that we all agree that, you know, the theage O side was the best side. You know that perform and we stole right, so we want we wanted that just as much because those hit different with us, you know what I'm saying, and and it hit different with our friends. We bring friends over and stuff like that. I mean, they loved the ups, but the ballance just kind of that kind of made it real fussy. I went through that list kind of fast. I'm just curious. Those songs that you said that you wrote in high school were what and then how did that division? I'm so curious to the songwriting process. In the divisional, Nate wrote, please don't go in Lonely Heart in school. Right as we were going along with the process of doing the record, you know, we started coming up with ideas. Uh Wanya and Nate wrote, uh no, me and you we wrote this is my heart in school? Yeah, I wrote, I wrote my part on the train on the l that's right. And then I can Wine rote his you know the loving in time and like he you know what I mean, like and and and he wrote that in the studio man wrote, we wrote, we wrote that in Mr Walker's room. Bro, I promise you which one holding yea remember that Mr Walker? You know. But just to reiterate what y'all said earlier, for for the novices of people who just listening, y'all wrote these songs in high school. And yeah, and still you only got fifty of these songs. And that's when that's when you look at like me and Shawn sitting in my backyard right Motown Philly. You know when I mean again, I give biv all the credit for, you know, a lot of the creative stuff. You know, the idea of creating a song called Motown Philly. The idea of coming up with a song called titles and concepts are great, but none of that song titled you to have my song. And that's where things started to go left. And we, you know, we looked up to him a lot. So our thing was, you know, that's our guy. You know what I'm saying. It's cool, we understand, but once we start to realize money is coming through and we're still in South Philly, something's got to change. But I don't want to get back on the negative. I' gonna stay on on the other stuff. As far as the songs, like I said, me and Sean did Motown Philly in my backyard and then Wine we was we were all sitting in my brother's room and like I said, Bib came up with the idea, you guys need to write a strong call, and Niggas was like so it was like, um, nobody wanted to write it, so we said there we all flipped the coin and Wine lost, so he had to write it. So he started writing the song. We all went back in the studio. They remix Chunk, and I think me and Sean in the remix, I think I did anyway, I started writing. He came to the studio and he couldn't finish it. So he's like, yo, dude, you know, finished finished it, but you said it ain't nazy said enough, and he was like he was like, well dude, I mean you know, what what are we supposed to do? I said, yeah, get here. So I rewrote some of people. I rewrote it and I wrote wrote one parts of it, and then we had we started singing it. Wee. I was like, I don't know, man, my my dad ain't gonna be proud of me with this song. We're just like all just we just pushed record and just kept going. It was like trying to pressure that right now. So one came in the studio late the day we were recording, and we had a girl in the studio. Didn't make the record, but we had a girl in the studio making these sounds and stuff on it. But I mean, like some of the stuff that we had didn't make the record. But anyway, video Wine came in. I was I was on the console. Wine came in and he heard the girl. He looked at the booth, was like, what what's what? What's that? What's what is that? It was like, we're just trying to, you know, get the song where it needs to be. It's like, dude, I told you Dad ain't gonna be proud of you, and he ran out, slammed the door on me and showing with each other like I tried to get one more time where you go from the time chip chip. So again, most of those saw almost all those songs except two on the first album. We all wrote either in high school or on the way to the studio and houses getting ready to make that record because Motown had no songs for us. They didn't know what to do with us at all. So how difficult was the transition in your personal lives? Again, I can only speak from the experience that your life drastically changed is and probably the people that change the most on you are your our family members, like people that are close to you and whatnot. How awkward or not awkward? Uh, what's that adjustment like with your your your first year into coming out with as far as like interacting with friends from your your your childhood and people that feel entitled. I can't I can't say. I can't say that there's been like some metal dramatic like change personally from people that I knew the people that I knew, we're actually in support of me even before all this, So when it happened for me personally, they were like, Okay, that makes sense because I was the kid that was in the Philadelphia Boys Choired eight. You know I did these things and that you know, all those stuff. So when it came down to oh, I'm in the group, yeah, you had a couple of knuckleheads, is like, oh, think I don't believe until you know it all happened. But it was never like oh, you know, give me some money or some crip. It was. It wasn't a movie scene. It was it was. It was awesome. It was all supported in a sense where when I came back to my neighborhood, everybody was like, Yo, what's up? And I was sick, my old stupid just with my you know, the same friends that I had, and we ain't out and kicking. I think it's this ain't with everybody. I mean, you know, n teammate dude like, Yo, you're supposed to come me, You're supposed to get us up all out of here, and I'm sitting here going through because I'm a logical thinking guy. Shoul I go intrough my head. I'm like, and I asked this dude, all just five y'all out here, let's just just just play this game for a second with you. I'm supposed to make it and come back and get all of y'all out. So if I come get off, five y'all out and give y'all all my stuff, y'all gonna be going, and I'm gonna be back here on this corner by myself. I'm not gonna be here by myself. Not give me y'all nothing. Yeah, and that's how that well with with me. It was with me, it was a little different because I'm from the project for Richard Island Projects and yeah, and exactly so. So so I'm from Richard Island and a lot of people that when I became famous, Um, they were my age. You know what I'm saying. There's a lot of cats that was my age. But they were doing another thing. I'm saying. They were street farmacists. You know what I'm saying. They were you know, they was hustling, they was doing all the different stuff. But they always supported me. You know what I'm saying. Once we became uh you know famous, uh sort of sort of speak. Um, we actually, you know, when I would come back, every time I would come back, somebody was in jail or dead, you know what I'm saying. And it was their brothers and sisters who were now older in the place where they were, so they didn't have the same respect for me as their brothers and brothers, you know what I'm saying, who was like, yeah, we we finally made it, you know what I'm saying. That's how they felt. But then as they started going you know, the prison and you know, passing away and stuff there, that there was no respect there. I even had to move my grandma mother, and she loved the projects. She loved it, even when I was making money. She really literally wanted to stay there, you know what I'm saying, because that's really all she knew for so long. But I had to move her out of there because I couldn't go and sit out in front of her house with my with my bins now, you know what I'm saying, with my bins and or in my my my truck and people just walked by. It was always something and my grandma was here to getting a lot from it, and she basically was like, yeah, they're talking crazy. I said, well, you gotta move out of here, and I just bought her to heat the heat. Yeah. Yeah, So I mean, it's it's it's it's different. I mean, family is is a little different too. Of was because, like you said, there's always an entitlement somewhere somewhere. It's not necessarily always the immediate, but there's always an entitlement of a cousin, of a cousin of a cousin, you know what I tell you do you know, but they're not really you know, a part of your life like that. You know, I'll tell you what's funny. What mean is that I had to try to, uh, because I always try to think a little bit ahead. I had to try to think for family members who don't really understand the change of the lifestyle. And in some cases, you know, obviously, when you become successful, you can't bring your whole family, you know, of out of the ghetto. I mean, there are people still live there and whatnot. To the point where I had to start seeing my family at my house because I always felt like me driving up in my car going in their house, I'm kind of endangering that because when I leave, whoever saw that car pull up, It's like, well, what was why was he going in there? What? What's in there that I don't know about? So I would always have to wind up having my family come to me, and I had to kind of pull up from going to see my family just to put them in those spots. It's a controlled environment if they come to see you. Yeah, exactly exactly. How how burdens him is in the end of the road in retrospect, how burdens m is it? Like I understand what he's saying, is it? Is it? How do you feel? Like? No, no, no, even when it was happening, When it was happening, you know, Okay, So I was obsessively reading billboard like this is right before we got put on. So I was always hanging in industry circles. I was interning at rough House. So when it got to that twelfth week, like every four year old white guy was like, yo, they're about to break the Beatles, right, it was like Santa Claus wasn't real. Idea, no, for real, there there was like it was like Santa Claus wasn't real, and they are gonna break this record in the next And it happened like that did it feel anyway or was it just like, yeah, we got the new Yeah, when we got the news, we were in London, and you know, we were overseas most of the time that end of the Road was doing what it was doing. So when we finally got the news, we were literally ten minutes and going to on stage at the Hippodrome in London and someone told us, hey, guys, you know, you guys broke the record. Uh you know, the longest number one blah blah blah, and we're like, oh cool, I think there was more so I think it was. Honestly, we didn't really know how much it meant. Like again, the same way we were in high school was the same exact way we were in the business for a long time. It was just find a song, learn the song, sing the song better than any damn other group can never sing it on the planet, and keep doing it again and again and again and every single. That's all everything was about. So all the other stuff that was going on that didn't even matter. It's like, Okay, well, now we're finished with Thomas rehearsal rehearsals at seven. We gotta get we gotta get these harmonies right. For the next thing. It was just never a time to even think about that. We just didn't know how big that was, right, And the funny thing was, at the same time, it's if we were if we knew that the the record even existed, Like you said, you were around that circle of mirror, So you know what I mean, people were saying, Oh, this is about to happen. We didn't even know that there was a record that existed that needed smoking, you know what I'm saying. So if we were like waiting for like all, we're about to do it, We're about to do it. Yeah, what I'm saying, we didn't do it. I guess if you're living it. If if you guys are actively working living it and I'm observing it, it's different, Like at that point I was observing it. For me, like me observing those first two years was just like wh Like someone that I actually know is doing something, yea doing something big. Let me let me tell you nothing. Let me tell you one real quick. We got the same vibe with y'all, and this was crazy. We was running around doing all this stuff, went up to Canada, not you know Canada. They got the all the all the gear and whatnot. The first time we ever heard Roots was the clothing line in Canada. So he was like jack nigger. We heard about it. We heard y'all as the Roots. We was like, oh, we know that's what that's dude, that's that's a man. No, it was for us. It was like we just felt like, yo, it's other brother made it. You know what I'm saying. Like that was just so like because that's the only way we that was our only time we ever heard anything about the Roots, and like, oh, it's the group and they oh that's oh, we know that b is y'all. That was it. That was it. They forgot about your gass after high school. Him here, it was like I'm gonna wait, wait, wait, I'm not I'm for real, I gotta tell you that I had to throw that shirt away, which because all right, so it's weird. I know your lives have changed, but imagine a two point six a two point six second cameo in a video, A two point six second cameo. It literally it changed my life at that point to the point where like Tarik would come out of the crib we go by and he's like, wait, what are you doing? And I was like, I don't know. He's like, you're not wearing the shirt. I'm not wearing that shirt, Yo, go get the shirt. Man was dirty? I wait, like that outfit had to be worn. The worst that ever got was at my grandmom's funeral. I'm not lying. I'm not lying to you. It's like it's it's like, you guys were so popular, so when they asked you to be in a video of mirror you just how long did you take to say yes? Yeah? Like that man being in a video was like and that's why the funny thing getting verified on Instagram funnier man, is that back like you wake up at four in the morning all excited looking at you out fit Like yeah, it's like but it's funny because back then, dude, as soon as we got the word that we was doing motown Philly and we knew he was doing it in Philly, I mean just nature for us was like who do we know? Who's people? A mayorshell? But we were anybody we grew up with like video, yeah Johnson, Yeah, we tried our best yes video because we wanted we wanted Filly to be finally on the map with us. We couldn't go on the map without everybody else HANSO, wasn't it. Yeah, it was like I don't know what must respect to Hans. Yes, he's reverend Reverend Hans three more. Yeah, let's talk about it. Let's talk about free Jesus money. I'm working with tax free man. I know that, I know that I know to get up, come on, yeah, yeah for real, Like I had to throw the shirt away and not rock that ship no more, man, that's it's yeah, but it got it got crazy. No. What I actually, what I do want to know is, um, can you guys speak on Khalil round Tree like your relationship with him and the effect that that had on you, Gretish man Kilil Foo Foo Big because Kylo was role manager for the addition and we met him in a Philly right guys, we met him in uh used to her so RPM on Delaware Avenue, right avenue, baby, And you know, to make a long story short, you know, Khalil it became our father figure, you know, somebody that looked out for us and and protecting us from everything and everybody. And and you know even though Big brought him, brought him in and initially his loyalty was to bive. You know that slowly turned it turned into something else, like you know, he started to love us, just like we started to love him, and it became us. You know when you when you talk about that where your father is like in you guys lives, like what was you know, they weren't on the road with us, you what I'm saying, Like when we were on the road and we were traveling and doing all the stuff that we were doing, he took on that father you know figure you know mine was mine was out. But yeah, right, but but for the most part, he took care of all of us and he made sure that you know, we were not only safe, but that we were carrying ourselves the right way and that you know, we stayed motivated and even doing rehearsals and all the other stuff. Like he he was something special because you know, he really gave a ship about us. It wasn't just a paycheck, you know, to Khalil, like we became an integral part of all of our families. He would talk to all of our mothers on the road and you know, because the mothers were were calling on the road making sure that we're all right. He would talk to each and every one of them, making sure that they knew that, you know, we were safe and all that. He became something different than just an average roomman. I mean yeah, he actually, uh my dad was only comfortable with me being on the room met he was like, okay, I'm cool. Was like, um, he was like the partner for me. Man. Like I said, my dad wasn't around. So you know, I I think I got the call first from Viv about a guy that he was looking into and Killile had. It was the night before we all met him. Um, he was staying at an airport Mariott or whatever, and you know he had with a big giant silver cage with all his sets lined up on his on his thing in his room out remember that. And when I first walked in, dude, I mean I was a little intimidate because you know Kyle, it was a big dude. I mean he's a big, big guy. So and that real deep voice you know what I'm saying. So you was it was almost like the father figure that kind of you know, put you in line without you mentally knowing it. But you know, once you got to know him, you knew he was a big Teddy Bear overall. But he was just always he was never going to tell you something that you know wasn't right or something that was bullshit. That just was not the guy. You know, if someone tried to, you know, say hey, well you know I need you to do this, or you know in the business when they're like, yeah, we need you to get your artists to do he was never that guy like I'm not getting my artist to do anything, Like I'm going to tell them what it is and then we're gonna talk about it. He was that guy. So he taught us early on the ins and out to that whole business thing. So, like Seawan said, you know, he was he was more than a father. He was He was everything we could have posted be as. Yeah, what year was it when he passed. I remember seeing y'all. This was I mean god, I was in like seven grade. Y'all came to Greensborog Coliseum and I want to say it was the Boy Wide super Fest, but I remember it was. It was y'all, Jodoc and hammil was the was the headliner. Yeah, I think it was episode Yeah, um, that was around when he passed. Yeah, well, yeah, it was ninety two. Yeah, it was in Chicago. We just finished your playing The Rose My Horizon, No, and and and what was funny is we all kind of like, uh, kind of keying on this particular moment. The night that he passed away, I got murdered. Kyla was a very confident dude. Every move that he made, everything that you know, he wanted us to do, he said it with with calculated what I'm saying, we're gonna do this, We're gonna do that, We're gonna do this. This was the first night because I don't know that we ever seeing Kilt say where y'all what hotel y'all want to stay? I didn't know which hotel where. Yeah, he came to us with the promoter's idea. I guess the promoter wanted us to stand. You know, I promoter, they got a cheaper hotel over to where you know, all the crew is stands. So I want to move the guys. And like Sean said, Kyleile was never never in decisive. He was always well that's what they're going, You're doing this, this what they're going. Because I said so, and he came to us and addressed for him, It's like, you know, the promoter, you know, but save him some money if you guys did this so forth and so on. You know, I don't, I don't really know what I mean. I'm kind of on the fence. What do y'all want to do? And we were like, I mean, care, it's up to you whatever. You know, I'm saying, we don't really whatever you want to do. And he picked the hotel and unfortunately that was the hotel where guys came in. And you know, I don't like to talk about it so sharing that. I'm sorry. I do have to ask though, because I know that singing is I always see singing as an intimate thing, and I know that you guys are like brothers. You know, when Terek and I are angry with each other, like the Roots show can still happen because we're not we're not facing each other. But how do you guys handle if if there's friction between y'all and you still have to do the intimate act of singing with each other and harmonizing, you do it because actually, the funny thing is that music it actually supersedes everything, you know what I mean, what we do together is magic, and it's like, you know, literally you know sometimes I literally lit us into how we create and figure out certain parts without even thinking about it, you know what I'm saying. So when we're on stage, we all know that we have a job to do for one but at the same time, we also know that this person next to me is going to do that job better than anybody that I could ever, you know what I'm saying. So the respect level is really like, I know what he's here to do, I know what Sean's here. I could be piste off and me that mad at me, but we know what we gotta do because our integrity is involved, you know what I'm saying, singing, singing your version of don't go to bed mad so almost again, because I mean, if we are having issues, most of the time, after we finished performing, somebody will come to somebody's room, somebody will say something to some It will always it takes away everything because of what we just did on stage, that right there together is greater than the anger that we have, you know, for each other. They always like that, Yeah, yeah, I mean we we have fish fights and then go back and go out on stage and rob literally I mean it's just I mean again, we we we grew up as brothers. Literally, like I have three brothers. I have my my my brother, and then I have my brothers. I mean, we don't know anything else. I mean I always say that, you know, when we started earlier talking about how how how much time we've been together, we've been together longer than any of us have been together with any family member. That even our mothers, like, we spent more time with each other than our own parents, like any there's not one family member in any of our families that we have spent more time around than each other. So I mean that right there, Like, I mean, it's really that it answers itself, you know what I'm saying, Like, that's what that's what family do. You know? Of course, you know go through things like argue, but at the end of the day, you know we're still families and and we do something together better than anybody, I believe, And we're the only one that can say what we said about each other. And you can't call my brother that I can say it. You can't say that. Yeah. Um, because we were getting into the two albums, were into the row. Um before we got there, I wanted to go back a little bit, so one of my boys men hot takes. I have several as as a longtime fan. My favorite album for y'all Coulio Harmony. I love Kulier Harmony. Outside of Couliou Harmony. I always thought that some of the best just writings, songwriting, vocal, everything was on Christmas Interpretations. I love that album. Man, like y'all. Nils was in y'all bag on that ship. We had to fight. We had to fight for that. Well. The label wanted, you know, a tip of cool Jackson five you know, you know ho ho host Santa Claus Christmas record, and we weren't going to do that, Like we didn't want to fall into that platform of the whole hole hole in jingle bells. So we fought to try to do an original Christmas record and we're not having the songs again. So we all sat around and said, all right, well here, Sean, you do too, Why you do too? I'm gonna do too, Mike, you do too, and then we we are We We said okay, well, since we did, you know, since we rock out with the night, because that's our boy, you know, we'll have him coming, and hell, we'll have him producer with us and if he's got a song and too, we're throwing on and we'll rock out like that. Everybody just wrote two songs and we just went for Yeah. No, I love that because it was you know, like he know what you say, you didn't want to do just a typical you know, jingle bells, you know kind of record. But all the songs, I mean, they were just great songs that could have been They could have worked year round, like they weren't relegated, like I would listen to the album in March, you know what I mean like that, Yeah, you know what that that that's a comp I appreciate that fund you. But you know, going back to the question that you you said like a little while ago, as far as the things that you that I've regretted, I don't think I've regretted. It's more or less I wish that there was more emphasis applied on me and my guys uh ability to write music. As we we we tried our best to even even they you know, we tried to be the next l in face of jam and Lewis or something like that. Right, we felt like that that was like a natural progression for us to kind of go into that realm, and you know, I'm speaking of all of us. Why you got a crazy pen? Like you know what I mean? Like we've we've all written records for us and for other people that that that you know, I wish for my guys that we were I guess more. I guess that that was more emphasized on. But because boys to Men was such a phenomenon, and it was it was such a juggernaut in itself, it seemed like are all of our folks honestly to look at looking at it in retrospect, a lot of people, even down to Gerald, who's just like Mon said, they didn't know what to do with us. So when we were successful, they were like, what the fund is this? You understand what I'm saying. Like everybody was kind of like, well, how long is this candle gonna work? So everybody's mentality wasn't hey, let's move these gentlemen forward to the next stage. As I looked back at all the events that's happened to us and the people that came in and out of our lives, it almost felt like, let's get this money now, because we we we don't we don't know how long this train is gonna so so so a lot of our votes had that mentality. They didn't. They didn't look beyond the fact that Joe Nate was a great songwriter. Yo Wine could have been a solo artist, you know, Sean could have did, Mike could have had you know what I'm saying, Like, they didn't go that are with us. They just said, Okay, they're a moment, let's snatch and grab and then let's move on to the next thing. And the case in point of that is when during the Evolution album, when we came out with the Evolution album, this was around the time the boy the boy band things started to uh to come up. So you felt from our standpoint, you actually felt the shift of people's priorities going from us to them, like like literally like our literal budget in Motown was literally taken from us and given to ninety eight degrees. Wow wow, like that like they like these these things happened and it was it was it was almost like they were done, like everybody was done with us. Almost mind boggling that they couldn't just add singer songwriter to any time y'all names were because what happened when when we did the first record. Like we said, we had records that were ours. They didn't know what to do with it. So it was almost like, well, we don't know if this record is gonna do well. Let's let the guys do whatever they're gonna do and we'll see if the project does well. Product sold twelve million records, so at that point the label was like, okay, so we need to make it bigger. That's who else can we get on this record. Now here's the caveat that people tend to forget. The original Cooley Higher Army album did not have Ended the Road on it. It wasn't part of the original album. Yeah, that song was done for the soundtrack for the Eddie Murphy Boomerang after Culiar Harmony was already out. So what if you notice the original Culiar Harmony album had us with the sharing coats on the canes and and the little squares around it. I think that original album probably might have got to about four and a half five million records. When they did the Marangue deal, they did the deal to were okay, well they can use on the soundtrack, Will Will, We'll have the guys performed the song. They'll perform it. We'll put it on that set the record, and then we'll also have to put it on we'll have the rights. Motown took to put it somewhere else, so they repackaged the Culiar Harmony album because they saw the have a pop start. We had a pop audience, so they said, okay, well, let's get the bright Color the bow Ties, throw this strong on there, re release this as a single off that album, and then that album goes to twelve millions. So now that mine is like, okay, well, now we need those kind of songs and those kind of songwriters, not Courier Harmony songs, but those kinds. So then they went to Jimmy and Terry, they went to baby Face, and as we were trying to grow as artists, like artists always hey, we we wrote some of those songs on the one that did five six. Can we write Oh yeah, well you can write some stuff, but right now we need these guys. So, you know, us taking the approach of just let's focus on making sure we sing the right notes and do what we gotta do. We didn't hammer home right away with trying to be on top of it. We got pushed away to the point where it was like, okay, well bring Dallas Austin back because he's a producer. Artists and producers back then they wouldn't let get they didn't. You know, the producer was always more important than the artists because the producer could produce fifteen and thirty records home on artists that the label had. The artist is just one entity. So it was always more important for labels to make allegiances with producers and songwriters keeping up from becoming super producers and songwriters took the power away from us to just be singers. So they wrapped that in face and everybody around it and and not not knockative that it didn't do well, but it did stifle what Shaun was talking about our ability to grow as songwriters. And they kind of threw us a bone like, well, here go go hang out with you know the Dallas is, be producers, Tim and Bob and see what you come up with. So we started writing some songs with them, which we happened again on the two albums, and and one of them we had to tell him that Dallas wrote in to get it on the record, because they wouldn't put it on that exactly. No, no, it doesn't we had the live to the record label and tell them that Dallas Austin wrote that song and produced it because they weren't gonna put it on the album. So my favorite songs on that album were the ones that y'all did like ing, but to the record label's points, they were trying to and and then again, I understand it now because when you really look at it. We can all talk about those records, but if you went to its thembull they're talking about in the road, they're talking about I'll make love to you. They're not talking about please don't go. They're not talking to you know what I'm saying. So I understand what they were trying to do. But if it was explained to us a little bit more back then as we were going through, we would understand it other than people feeling other than us feeling like artists like, well, we're gonna get the big names and y'all just gonna take the ride. Here's the irony of all the irony of all of that name is the fact that yes, those guys wrote those songs and things that nature. And this is no disrespect because there are records, so I can't disrespect all songs, but the biggest one was written by us, right, So so you know, despite what they thought, despite what they might have thought, we were or what we needed, what we was always here. It was always with us. But but they never wanted to see that, so they tried to literally manipulate the situation to even make us think, you know, we y'all need them, and and and it wasn't like it wasn't a disrespect. It's not a disrespect because we Uncle, Terry, Jimmy, Jeff, we there are. We love them, you understand, with all of all of us. You know what, we love baby face with all of our hearts. So we understand that this was all a business move that the same same time one benefited a little bit more than the other. From that standpoint, and and beat me being forty years old, I'm understanding now that life is all about relationships, Life is about growth, Life is all about being able to develop and go from this point to that point, and we all need to help to do it. There's not anybody alive that has not become successful without some sort of leg up by somebody that was in a better position than them. So when I look back at this, this was by design, they wanted us to be here, stay here, and then want to That's all they wanted for them. They didn't want us to dabble into much. And then it's been said a couple of times throughout, and what made it even tougher was that even when we tried to write and produce on somebody else, the name of the group was so overshadowing that all people wonder was I just want to hear y'all singing, y'all do something I don't really want nature record or by versa. And now that I don't like it, but I like this better, and that's you know, it's it's a double ed sword. The success is great, but you you and at some at that point in our career we had to either live with one or the other. We weren't going to be able to get home. When it comes to the technical aspect of the creating of a song, is it clear who's gonna sing what part? Because to me, like the three of you have very similar voices and voice rangers. I know there are different you know, uh, strong suits for each of you, But like when you're when you're writing a song and you're creating, it's clear who's gonna sing what part. It's like, it's like, Nate, you're gonna sing the melody, Sewan, you're gonna sing. Writing for my group is probably the easiest thing in the world because you can you can literally know, you know exactly who does what that like you you don't even gotta like question or have a you know, tribunal about who's gonna sing this verse or that verse or whatever. You know, who's going to sing it, who's gonna send it home? And then the harmonies is just something that most people don't know how we do it. So we just do that. But I want to know Silent Night is that's how long is it? Here are you guys the craft that because here's the deal is that everybody has their own style with the reason why I think that a lot of a lot of it seems more difficult than it is a lot of producers. I Jimmy jam Terry and faced him like working with us because and this is not you know, not trying to blow smoke in any way, but honestly, there's not many songs that we can not sing because vocally we cover the gamut from here to here, whether it's one guy, two guys or whatever. We cover the whole spectrum. We're gonna sing every single You can't, you can't out key us. Oh that's in the wrong key. You can't. You can't do that with us, because vocally we just it's it's all over the place. So with that being said, like chance that it's easy to write for us because throw it against the wall. And to answer your second question, because we grew up in the coral environment, we automatically know where the parts fall. But even after that, what made boys to men different from just people singing coral is we moved out of that realm a little bit. So if Wind's background part is the first songs background parts the second tenor, he'll start singing it and eventually somewhere he'll end up on an alto second alto part, and most people say, well, he went out of his range. He's got to stay there. He doesn't have to because when he's singing that, Winds already singing where he left the spots open, and I'm already hearing the spots that they both left open. So it's just a mental thing intuitively know to jump to that place. It's like I'm gonna make it this simple you ever have connect for you know how when you dropped down to gook cookok could, That's pretty much what it is. Wherever that land, you know when you drop the next one where it's gotta go to, you just know where it's gotta go. Hey, and I'm gonna I'll be tolding, honest, And that's what I was talking about Earlier's the magic, you know, the crazy thing is is Okay, let's just say, uh, Shawn's in in the vocal booth and I'm out in the lobby and Sean sings this note blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, he sings this note. When I come in and hear the note that Shan is doing, I automatically know where I'm supposed to go. And it's not even a song that I ever heard before. You know what I'm saying. So then I'll go in and I'll do my part, and then I'll leave. Then NATAL come in, and by the time we finished it, it has turned into this place. And it doesn't have to be in sequential order. Wine could start, then I'll come in second, then Sean will come in, or I'll start or vice versa. It's just it's just the natural and ability to just feel what each guy idea for that song is gonna be. I mean, and it and it hasn't even it hasn't even gotten more difficult with three people because I was doing both parts anyway. So it's just now it's just rapid. It's just it's quicker actually, and all actually and all the intention always just to sound like a coral group, or was the intention to sound like, I mean, look, I'm I'm a white kid from Long Island. I listened to religiously as forever and from this time, no fuck you, But like what I'm fascinated by, it's like I always felt like you guys were four guys at that time, but you sounded like about twenty and like, I don't know, I don't think that there was like ultimate stacking. It was just like the notes that you picked and that the way that you did it. And I think what I'm getting at, Nate is like what you said is like is when you would get to someplace, you would hand it off to one and the Salient Night, Salient Night is the perfect example. And then I'm grabbing men because that's not normal because because we because we we what it is is that we we sang some of it something like that in high school. But what we did was we we added R and B to it when we when we took it for our own. And if you notice there are some chords where literally, I mean you may have a second or third or seventh, it sounds like it's twelve people, but it's not, especially when you get to that that court of the end, that that that real big, strong. It sounds like it's fifteen people. But it's just the notes that we chose and with Mike underneath of it, which a lot of people never really had. You could sing three notes and he would only be a fourth away, but it would just make it sound like it's thirteen people. But like was was was that was the intention always like that cluster harmonies would be the thing I mean, because like the gospel gospel for the record is like it's more at the court. I'm getting nerdy. The cords were spring out in gospel, right, It's like it's like rude five right, right, right, We intentionally you don't want nobody to follow you and yeah, no, no, you're right right, like that we intentionally did that because one those progressions aboard us like they're boring, you know what I mean, you know, like to do one, three, five, Yeah, you know what I'm saying that. It's like, okay, we that, but there's so many sweet spots in the seventh and then the thirteen and like in between and all those other you know, uh sustained you know, chords and harmonies and stuff like that. So those suss chords and all that, so to be it so so to be able to do that was always the goal. I mean, we grew up on Take six and the Carpenters and and all those guys who did all of that stuff. So that's what we grew up listening to even before we met each up. Okay, so I was gonna ask because I didn't ask earlier. I know that, you know, Take six is an influence, but the intricate level of of of how you guys do your harmonies this is yeah, it's beyond that, Like was their influence from Brian Wilson, Like who who are you? Who can get harmony? Gods? Here's that I'm gonna tell you. Take six honestly is the key. But the difference is when, like I said, when you got six guys and they're moving pretty tight. There's not there's not a whole lot of space for a guy to sing a soprano party and all the way down at the baritone because there's six guys in there. But what we did was we tonally we would listen to them because we knew we didn't have six parts. We found the parts that made it sound just like them without all six Yeah, even if you had to go from the top to the bottom just to make that chord sound like their cord, Yeah, that's what we would do. So we would jump all over the place, right so that they actually created those subs cords in the middle and then spread out to become something else. So as a as a threesome, do you guys have the ability to recreate so much to say we're just three people? Know? But you know what, that's okay because when you're listening to an album, you just want to capture the moment, you want to create the space, you want to create the pain, and and that's all that matters. Like it's three of us. But if we feel six parts, we're gonna sing those six parts. You know what I'm saying, Because what's needed, but I will say, but I will say, there are things that can sound that strong with three people, and I use I use our start to flankle banner as an example. We used to sing that with four people. But again, now that Mike's not here, we just took that other leg and kind of folded it under put, put it put. We We took the meat of what we needed to make it sonically sound the same way. People just jump in different spots to make it sonically sound the same way. It's just not for people, and the average ear is not going to hear with that. One note is not when you gotta tryad and it's a triad of maybe a fifth or third and a seventh, you're not worried about what the other note was because it was probably probably unison with any other group. Anyway, you're only focusing on that. So we make sure we give you that, and then we'll peel one off to where it feels like it's open, and then we'll bring them back in. So it's ways to twist it. Like Shawn said, obviously, records give us a lot more flexibility, but if we have to narrow it down, that's normally how we'll do it. So what happens if a member has laryngitis or what's happened? And how long does it take your just even even when Mike had to leave the group, how how much work in adjustment did you have to do to figure out how to how to cover what was missing? I mean we it's literally us getting being backstage or somewhere and just arranging it mentally preparing ourselves because you know, when you're when you're when you're doing someone else's part, you're doing someone else's character. That that a lot of people understand that, Yo, that's wan Ye sing. So there's no way I'm gonna sing like wan Ya. So because he puts a stamp on everything that he sings, so there has to be a way to get around it. So you just make a way around it. And you know, obviously it's not gonna sound like Wanya, but we try our best for us not to suck, and and and and and if if if it doesn't suck, then that's good enough. And and honestly, we have the type of fans and people that we can be on stage and say, yo, man, he has got a laryngitis. He's here, He's here, guys, he's here, he's gonna sing his best for you. And people know what. They hear it, they see it, they hate see him struggling or they see me struggling or whatever we say, and they sing our first. They got parts too. So we we have that type of like people have seen us enough to know that we can sing. That's never been a a a doubt or a question. So when somebody has an off day, we just have off day and our people understand it and let's just go about the show and we we do it and our people ride with us. I ladies and gentlemen, sorry to do it to you, but you know we're gonna have to cut it short right now. Trust me. We'll be back next week. We're more talking with Nate, Sean and One Boys the men, Quest Love Supreme. All right, come next time, see yo, what's up? This is Fonte. Make sure you keep up with us on Instagram at QLs and let us know what you think and who should be next to sit down with us. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast, all right, Peace. Quest Love Supreme is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the I heart radio, app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Questlove Supreme

Questlove Supreme is a fun, irreverent and educational weekly podcast that digs deep into the storie 
Social links
Follow podcast
Recent clips
Browse 404 clip(s)