The South African economy kept its head above water in the first quarter of 2025 (January–March), expanding by a marginal 0,1% compared with the fourth quarter of 2024.1 Four of the ten industries on the production (supply) side of the economy recorded positive gains, with agriculture driving most of the upward momentum. Household spending, stronger exports and a drawdown in inventories kept the expenditure (demand) side of the economy in positive territory.  Mbuyiseni Ndlozi is in conversation with Chief Economist and Head of Research at Rand Merchant Bank, Isaah Mhlanga and Professor at the University of Johannesburg Department of Sociology, and co-editor of BRICS and Resistance in Africa, Patrick Bond.