According to the Human Sciences Research Council (HSRC), most township businesses are small, unprofitable and focused on local markets, rather than producing goods and services that can be sold more widely, create good jobs and generate higher incomes. While black people may run car washes, beer halls, spaza shops and food outlets, these ventures often offer low-profit margins and limited opportunities for sustainable economic growth. Lerato Mbele is in conversation with Simon Brown, Investment analyst and Dr. Justin Visagie, Senior Researcher at HSRC.