Pod of RebellionFrom unlocking the Jedi Temple on Lothal to Ezra facing his deepest fears to a special visit from an old friend via 'Force Skype'. The group talks about this, how the episode has vibes similar to 'The Alchemist' and much more!
I say this with love and admiration, so I please know that.
But like it reminded me that when we started this thing, you were a little baby teenager. You were like Tandy Bopper Nickelodeon Star, and you were cocky af you were hockey.
What's up, guys, you're listening to Potter Rebellion. This is Taylor Gray, Ezra Bridger, Spector six, and I'm here.
With Vanessa Marshall. I am Harrison Doula, the voice of Specter two, and.
I am Tia Sercar, voice of Sabine Wren, Specter five.
And with us we have.
I'm John Ley Brody, voice of me nonspector, but the full on moderator of this fine podcast. And today we are going over season one, episode ten, Path of the Jedi. Let's start the show. How is everybody so good?
I loved watching this episode.
This is a great one, a great another you know, Canaan and Ezra bromance episode, but also character building. We're getting more and more peeling away the layers of this story, and ez we're learning more about himself, and we get to learn about Ezra as he learns about himself, which is pretty cool.
Yeah, yeah, it is no, no, no, ask Morgan is the next one?
Oh yeah next week? Yeah, next week?
How I can screw it up with the first thing?
I don't think. No, it's good.
It's because I wrote notes and I usually watched them two at a time, and I wrote world between worlds as well. It looked very to sort of foreshadow where we go part of that Kyber Crystal. And John, You've probably more insider or Vanessa than maybe too who knows like this process of going and finding in Kiber crystal. Where was that established? Like where do we first see that? Because I've never seen that.
Well we can there was a Clone Wars episod and j C will probably have a lot more of an intricate history of the Kyber Crystal. I mean I first heard about Kyber crystals and like the comic books, like the dark Horse comic books, that's the first time I heard about it. But I do remember in like season five of Clone Wars, and jac can fact check me on that, there was a whole young Lings episode where they had to get their Kiber crystals, which is a great episode.
Yeah.
I was going to say the same.
I know, but John John got to it first though, we're reading off the same script and I just kind of stole Tea his line.
That's all just what that's all about?
Love?
I thought of war, War between world what is it? War between worlds? World World, World between world.
That's the new Spielberg movie coming out this summer.
It gave me those same vibes and like the like just right out the gate, it's like very atmospheric, like the cold on their breath, and you know, he what does he say? Canon says temple spread through the stars? Like is sick it. It feels like a little bit of a departure from like where we've been, like these episodes that we've been watching, and suddenly we've got this like really cool, very.
Forced, prominent episode. And I really liked it. I thought it was like a cool kind of.
Foreshadowing to what we're about, what we're going to get into in future seasons.
Yeah.
Now I want to make a movie with the four of us called like War between the World between Wars or something like the World between the World Between Worlds. It'll be like a Philip K. Dick sort of story. It's like in a world between worlds and worlds, there's a war and like it'll just like even the movie trailer, guy was like, what is going on?
I like it?
Yeah.
I also was so tripped out on Canaan with the inquisitor and he gets stat I was like, Okay, I know, I know this isn't real, but I was so confused this everything, and it sort of reminded me. I remember talking to Dave during this episode and saying like, oh, I connect with this in the way that it felt like, and this is not going to be a good example, but like I remember taking the first time you try psychedelic, you go like, Okay, I'm gonna be seeing some crazy things, but you like enduring and persistent, and you know that there's growth happening and you don't necessarily know why, and like you think of Joseph Campbell and the great myths, and there's a lot of myths in some of these ancient cultures of like going through your deepest fears to grow and come out transformed or whatever. That that other side might be, that maturation, and I watching it, I don't know, being a little more on the other side of it now. I loved that whole process because I remember being so young and I've kind of scared by so many things, but also if it scared me being like, that's where I need to go.
Yeah, you're like the Arion Williamson poem like Our Deepest Fear that was in Coach Carter, Like you're basically yeah, my boy Rick n Zalez who played Timo Cruz in that movie, like he got to do the our Deepest Fear thing. That's what I thought of, and that reminds me of you, and it is Ezra because like when you read that poem, that is like part of his deepest sphere and that's also like Canaan's in which we'll get into. But before we get too deep into it, shall we do our little recap and then we can jump Sorry yeah, no, no, that's because you were in a flow and I was like, oh I want to hear this, like I was leaning in.
I'm so sorry we skipped right over it. So just before you before you get into that.
I just really love that Taylor thought of Joseph Campbell the first time he took his can tell it.
Please Please?
All right?
Here comes the recap for season one, episode ten, Path of the Jedi original air a date December twenty nine, twenty fourteen, and it goes something like this. The episode begins on board the Ghosts, for Canaan is looking for Ezra to come into that day's Jedi training, but, like Marty McFly in nineteen eighty five, Ezra is late for school. This frustrates Canaan and he tells young his young Padawan that he lacks discipline and focused. Cane questions Ezra desire to be a Jedi, and truth be told, Ezra does too. So the solution is for Ezra to take a test see he's really meant to be a Jedi. The Master in Padawan take flight in the Phantom instead, and instead of using GPS or a Thomas Guide, Ezra needs to use his meditation powers to locate the Jedi Temple where his tests will take place, and it just so happens, like Santiago and the Alchemist, the very thing Ezra was looking for was on his own home planet. Upon getting to the temple, is discovered that it can only be opened by a Master in Padawan. So, like the Planeteers and Captain Planet, Canaan and Ezra let their powers combine and open it up. Once inside, Canane tells Ezra that this is a test he must do alone. As Ezra takes these very intense Jedi SATs, he is forced to face his deepest fears from Canaan, from Canaan being killed by the Inquisitor, to be in the opposite of Sally Field that the nineteen eighty five oscars with the Ghost Crew in that they don't like them, They really really don't like them, and it's all a bit much for the young Padawan, and like a Nathaniel Hawthorne story, he's not sure what's real and what isn't. He starts to feel abandoned and alone. He starts to doubt himself, but then, as if he had just watched a Brene Brown ted talk, Ezra realizes he is enough and it faces all his fear's head on. It's at this point a guiding voice comes to both Canaan and Ezra by way of force Skype all the way from the Dacoba system. The guide ultimately leads Canaan to fully embrace his role as teacher, and Ezra being all in on his intentions on becoming a Jedi, and in this apparently rewards based Jedi test, a lightsaber Khyber Crystal lands in Ezra's hand like he's bashing in the never ending story getting a single grain of sand from the childlike Empress Canaan and Ezra lead the Jedi temple, knowing that like a Luther Vandro song, it'll be there for them always and forever. The episode ends back on the Ghosts for Ezra puts the newfound Kuiper cursal used by constructing his own lightsaber and veils it for the ghost crew, and everyone agrees that it's different from any other lightsaber they've ever seen, but like the nineties Arb slogan, it would appear in this case that different is good. Ezra ignites the lightsaber and that's the end of season one, episode ten, Path of the Jedi.
Wow.
Wow, yes, that might have been.
The best one yet.
We have a Paul Kowelio, a Nathaniel Hawthorne reference three eighties movies references Luther Vandros Like that was wow, so.
Says I wrote.
I was like, I think that's wait because like when I was listening to the episode and can't like it'll always be that, Like, wait a minute, there's something here, like in my mind went to Luther Vandros just like Taylor went to Joseph Campbell and our greens working.
This is great culture and it's fine. It's Nathaniel Hawthorne. I'm gonna come out and adm who's Nathaniel Hawthorn.
He's a very prominent author. So did you ever watch The Sopranos.
Yes.
The first time I got hip to Nathaniel Hawthorne is when Metal Soprano's visiting college and Tony Soprano sees this quote on the wall like one person can't be one person for the public and one person at private, because you're not going to know which ones which. And it was at that one like, oh, who's this Nathaniel Hawthorne. That's very profound.
So that's what Nathaniel.
You've read Nathaniel Hawthorne because you went to like public school in America. But he wrote The Scarlet Letters, Girl a Letter, but he also wrote The House of Seven Gables, The Seven Gables.
Nice, okay, well done, thank you.
And then Brene Brown too, So we got a lot of like mental health talk and literature.
And this is a very Ezra heavy episode.
And I know, Taylor, when you and I first met, we talked about just what books to read, like we had like our own unofficial book club.
It was just the two of us.
Yeah, two people could be a club, that's right.
All right, yeah collective. We want to make it sound a little more fancy.
But yeah, well.
Out of curiosity, what what were some of the books on your in your book club or on your reading list?
Okay, well, I remember I recommended to him there was this book called Double Exposure and it was by al Goff and Miles Miller. They were the creators of Small Bill, and it was this really wild story about how this person is like a restores films and they find this film of that Adolf Hitler's alive sort of thing. It's a wild story, sorry, that I did not expect from the writers of Small Bill. And I was like, hey, Taylor, I just feel like you enjoyed this, and he's like, oh yeah, okay, so it's cool.
Like historical fiction or like what do you call? Is it historical fiction? Like what Tarantino would do with.
Like yeah, yeah, it's fantasy. I mean there's a fantasy element, I guess to.
It historical fantasy.
Like historical fiction, I feel like, is like a fictional story set in a real time, whereas like he's sort of bending, like he's rewriting what.
Absolutely took place. So I don't want.
People write that like John Lennon is or yeah, John Lennon is still alive, like that type of made up fantasy. But we do get Yoda and historical.
Yeah, yeah, that's unusual.
I mean because Tom Kane played Yoda throughout all the Clone Wars, so for us to get actual Frank oz and he did sound a little deeper and richard and old or obviously as we all age. But I thought that was really special for this episode. You know, I love Tom Kane very much, but the original voice that was quite profound.
This you know in your recap.
When you said the original air date, I realized that's probably why I never saw this episode. December twenty ninth, Lord knows, we were all dealing with holiday stuff. I had not seen this episode, and I actually I found it quite riveting. I remember dealing with Ezra's dark side and that it always scared me. You know, I didn't know which way it would come out. Obviously, I know which way it comes out. We know the ending, but this was interesting to me on two levels. One that as the cave is sort of closing down, Canaan gives Ezra advice, and after the cave wall falls down, he says, well, that's what my master told me, that he really has no idea what he's doing either. Seeing that kind of vulnerability in a master was really satisfying to me. And I wasn't sure if these things were hallucinations or real in real time. I mean, obviously I figured it out, but I was riveted and really hoping that you would not fall.
I know, when you deal with.
Darth Maul, your eyes kind of light up red, like not you but you know, in the past we've had this fear of you know, which side your instincts would sort of guide you to. And so in other words, when you got the holocron and that image was so beautiful of you and the stars and you know, the Kiber crystal, not the holground, but the Kiber crystal falling down into your hand, that was such a satisfying moment that the goodness.
In you won.
And also watching you think through being left alone, and you know, everyone feels victimized at some point, but that's sort of the crux of the hero's journey when you say, well, maybe he's not injured. Maybe he needs my help that you turn your rage and self pity and victimization into inspiring you to step up to be a hero in your own life. And then that sort of cracks everything open once again, Star Wars giving us such a profound lesson that we all can either feel sorry for ourselves or we can get up and do better. And you know, not that our journeys don't deserve that kind of compassion for things that have gone wrong, but it's always so again satisfying to see a character really empower themselves and be of service instead and be caring and kind.
And also it was good to see.
Your characters fragility in the sense that you worried that they were back on the ghost talking smack about you.
You know, so that's part of your worst fears.
But anyway, I just thought the whole thing was great and it was really cool to hear Frank Oz again totally.
I also, I feel like we've talked about this so many times, but I guess it is like so evident to me in these rewatches of like that's like a really golden nugget of truth and and like a really thoughtful way to it's there they we the folks making this show are imparting this really valuable lesson, but not again, like not in a heavy handed you know, sort of wagging your finger and like you can do better like that.
It's not like that.
It's sort of couched in drama and action and and you know these like emotional moments that Taylor, I thought you were so great in this episode, but then when you step back, you go, oh wow, what a what a beautiful message to to impart on the audience without it being like sort of bashing you over the head with it, as if like it's sort of time to time.
To teach you kids a lesson.
You know, Wait that sounded negative, You know what I mean, like time to like let's all learn about how to persevere and this is how you do it. Like it's just sort of a it's sort of a beautiful moment and you take from that what what you what you get from it? But I thought it was really beautifully subtly done.
I agree.
I'm always wary of when a character speaks to himself in anything. I mean, because you're like, here comes the exposition, like they need to fill it in, and I'm you get sometimes in an ACN you fail, You're like stranded on island.
And when it was happening, I was saying to.
Who I was watching with those like like at times, I'm it's okay, like because it's actually what's going on.
He's working it out in this sort of fear.
But also my biggest thinggue too, is I thought Freddie was fantastic and so great. I said, like, I really loved everything that he was doing, and like I it's I don't do this much when I'm watching a live action show, but for some reason, when I'm watching an animated show, I if a line sticks out to me, I just repeat it, like exactly kind of how they say it for some reason, And so many of Freddy's lines, like my friend and I we kept saying them after. It's like he has such a golden sort of delivery on some of these that I loved.
And also just like that Star Wars, that beautiful balance of like really high stakes, action packed and yet like funny banter.
What is he what he says?
Like you lost focus and you're like, well, dead guys are distracting.
It's so great.
And I also, Vanessa, you said something earlier and it struck me that I don't remember, like, having not seen any of these episodes for ten years, I don't remember that there was so much vulnerability when it comes to Canaan, Like because Freddie himself is so strong and confident and in control just as a person and as a friend and as your big bro, Like, I don't remember these moments, you know, where he Canaan questions himself and you know, has these moments of like, uh, vulnerability where he doesn't even think he's worthy of being.
Or having a padawan and Ezra and.
I just I think I just don't recall those things because I mean, maybe maybe it's just because of my like how I feel about Freddie and who Freddy is to me, that maybe I just sort of forgot Canaan actually has a lot of doubt and so this this episode reminded me of that. And even in a few past episodes, there's like he has a lot of doubt in his own abilities.
And I'm not going to say rightfully so, but is the Inquisitor way stronger than him?
Yeah, but he's doubting himself as your master, right, Like not just about like bad guys and being able to best them, but just as like, does he even deserve a padawan?
Can he handle a padawan?
Like?
Those are things that I don't remember him questioning so much in the show.
Yeah, at least this is the first time he's externalizing it, because it's almost like he's been telling when he tells Ezra, hey, everyone's afraid, just but you're at at least you're admitting it. You would think that, oh, he learned that lesson, but I guess like he's still battling with that. So he had to take his own advice, and which I think is a big character growth moment. And I feel like, you know, because you're in this temple with all these dead bodies and everything, you know, the whole chasing ghost sort of thing, where he's trying to live up to some sort of arbitrary expectation that doesn't really exist of what he's supposed to be, whether for himself or for Ezra, and that's really what's holding them back. And I think this is a realization of, oh, I need to own my identity. And and with Ezra, what I really liked about it was why do you want to become a Jedi? Which it's such a rudimentary question, of why do you want to do this? But we don't ask ourselves that enough. In my opinion, the best advice I one of the best piece of advice I ever got from a friend of mine, was Hey, when you understand the why, the how part is easy, sol that's is that what it is?
Yeah, answers for.
Meaning when he went through concentration camps and wrote that book, and that that was the thing.
If you know your why, then you can overcome anyhow.
Well, then my friend plagiarized Victor Frankle then, so shout out to you, Jason. But thank you Jason, because he's he Basically I don't think he claimed it as his own, but I associate with him obviously because he told it to me. And it makes so much sense now that Ezra knows why he wants to be a Jedi. The how part of how it the could get there is going to not be easy. It's going to be work. But it's very symbolic of that. I didn't get that out of that in twenty fourteen obviously because I just wasn't there in terms of like my emotional charity. But watching it now, I'm like, oh wow, this is some some deep deep stuff we got going well.
Also he had to earn it, meaning, you know, your conversation with the Canaan saying like what I thought you were training me?
I am a Jedi and he says, no, you have the potential.
To become one, and that it's it's not as easy as just sort of you know, falling into it that you had to be. You had to make the choice, like you said that, understanding the why. But yeah, I thought that that was also another really profound conversation because a lot of us want to be things and just don't know why they're not happening. But we have a little more footwork to do and that questioning going into the inner landscape and rooting out you know, those those character flaws and transcending them. Then step into full power. It's like nothing can stop you. Like you said there, you can overcome anyhow, it's really what you end up doing. And by the way, how cool is your lightsaber?
Come on?
Now?
I sell so much, I tell him.
I mean, Dave also loved it so much and he took so much fried in it. It's one of I don't know, I think it's the coolest thing, just for the difference I mean, here comes another debate. It has a blaster, Like, every lightsaber is a lightsaber. I don't care what color it is.
That's a different.
If it has a blaster, I don't like if you gave that to a stronger Jedi, they would be I mean, I'm still trying to figure out in Star Wars what a blaster means because he handed over to star Stormtrooper and they a blaster means nothing.
You might as well be throwing rocks.
We error.
Yeah, but I mean the fact that it's a blaster and a saber is just cool.
And and it's origin story. I had forgotten the origin story of your black your blaster slash lightsaber until rewatching this episode, and I was.
Like, oh, that's so cool.
That's cool that like each of us had a part in helping you create it, or each of you know, the members of the Ghost crew, and like you made that thing, and I had forgotten how how it came to be.
Does it have a name, Lucille.
J I wonder, oh, no doubt, I'm sure it does.
When they sell it at that Toys R or Target, I wonder what it says.
But yeah, yeah, Pablo, let's go Glass their saber.
I don't know.
I just think it's so fun and obviously, like spoiler when he gets the second one, I think the first one's so much cooler and.
It's one of one, like nobody else has that.
It's really cool. I will admit it is a very cool weapon.
We have a concession. It is very coolest lightsaber. And you have to say dark s.
It's a dark saber, but it is the coolest.
It's the dark Yeah, pretty awesome the most.
It looks the coolest for sure.
It's so cool. And also it has like a cool club of people who have wielded it.
I would say, I don't.
Know about that.
It's exclusive. It's exclusive. It feels you know, it's special. I don't know. Okay, we can talk about that another time.
I can't wait till we get sam Wit We're on and then we can have a whole dark so like just that's going to be coming at some point and oh yeah, okay, my favorite, my personal favorite. Yeah, like I'm not saying this is the best one. You can take it what you will. My personal favorite is Gungee's lightsaber from Clone Wars the wood Panel one because I.
Was like, oh, this is so googling.
Googling, I might have, but I love the hybrid element of as results I never school. Yeah, because I love wood paneling. I love the old jeep wagoneers and old station wagons, and I love wood panels. I've always loved that, and that's one of the things Freddy and I bond over because we both are obsessed with station wagons with wood paneling.
Like it's like our dreams.
Yeah, well he's got yeah, he's going through is his uh his Japanese sports car phase right now.
But I said, one day.
We're going to have matching station wagons with wood panels, and everybody's gonna make fun of us.
We won't care.
Because it's very cute, that's very sweet.
It's goals. It's definite of us.
I oh my Google of Judges. Lightsaber.
I then continued on shout out to game rant just the I just put the coolest lightsabers and Star Wars obviously ranked down. Uh as it's on there, the pistol hilted Lightsaber twenty two here, But then they have what do you call it, the Inquisitors on there.
I don't know where.
Yeah, the Inquisitors, Yeah, way down way down, No, no.
No, sorry, it's going from like, yeah, thirtieth to first.
Okay, so what's number one? Let's get Massage ventures please.
Yeah, Grand Inquisitor nine, not know like Theano's curved.
Hilt seven, okay, okay.
Luke, Skywalker's Green five, the Unique Mandalorian Dark Saber four, four, Darth Maul's double.
Three col Castus damage. I don't know what this means, Custus.
Wait is that?
Wait?
If that were summed even Vanessa and John, then it's a deep dive.
Wait is that clone warsaw.
Padawan Turn Jedi Knight during the Rain of the Empire, Explore through Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order j C. You know.
That's from the game.
That's historic.
Skywalker, SA, you have to that's fine.
Delight that the Dark Sabers top five.
I agree, I agree, it's cool. I think that.
Yours should be I mean, as you should be higher than twenty two.
Come on, and for sure with Tricy said that's eight, it's fair. What did they call yours Pistol Sabers.
It's still hilted lightsaber.
It's still hilted lightsaber. Sounds pretty badass.
I like Lucile.
It's easier shorter. I also sorry to uh change the subject a little bit. I feel like I don't know if I have properly given Jason Isaacs his flowers on this podcast yet for being like have I have we discussed like how deliciously evil and diabolical he is, Like, he's just a great great It is really great because.
It really rises to the forefront in this episode, especially because you can get him in small doses.
We talked about is his putting game? I know that.
Oh yes, sure, I don't mean Jason Isaac's being diabolical.
I mean.
Visitor.
Sorry I should I should be specific. I just mean he's so like, you know, you've seen him in one million things and he's fantastic and everything, but man, he's just so deliciously diabolical.
It's so good.
I have an image in my head that, like your first impression of anyone, it's hard to what do they say? It takes so many hours to rewrite the first fifteen seconds to me someone and it's.
Like, do you remember this?
When he first came in, he was like, oh, what a joy it is to be in the booth and we were like, yeah, yeah, for sure. Why and he was like, well, because I'm only record under. Do you remember this? He said, under? Because I don't know how to record anything. So anytimes someone said this how they recorded, I was always like, Okay, what are they doing. He said that he would sit under his dining table in the UK. Well, his kids are running around, and he would put a duvet over the table like a little cave.
And he's like, I would just sit there with my pad and read.
So he goes, this is so fun, and I was like, I remember just going like this big like scary man being like under kids while he recorded under his dying tale. And I thought it was so sweet and it always sort of like tickles me because I think of it every time.
I think of it.
I love that you shared that. I don't recall that, but I'm glad that you. I'm glad you do because that is very The visual of that is very.
Sweety remote remote recording. I guess the pandemic made that normal. But before the pandemic, I had to or I got to host special Olympics and I was at Emerald City Comic Con with James Arnold Taylor and I said, how am I going to make a recording studio.
He came in, he turned my couch on its side.
And took the duvet cover, and I did all sorts of remodeling, and then I think he put a mattress on the other side. And I just remember the person who came in to clean the room, like open the door and went not right, and she left.
But I just sort of left it in that construction.
But yeah, that's not quite as an adorable story.
But it's just we do what we got to.
Do, got to you gotta do this, and it is lovely to be in a studio where you don't need to do any of that.
Yeah.
Yeah, we had a very comfy in that studio because we often recorded in the same studio at the.
Same studio, La Center, La Studios.
But we had this like back area to John that was like very like an l so super spread out, and every now and then we were recording one of the other boots and it just wasn't the same.
Yeah.
Did you guys feel that?
Oh?
Totally.
Every time they were like, oh today you're in studio four, and I'd be like, what.
But what about Yeah?
What about?
Yeah?
I feel like we I mean, it felt like it was after a while. Yeah, like it felt like it was ours and anytime. There was just a couple of times that we recorded elsewhere and it was like felt a little discombobulating because we I mean, it was so regular for us. We were recording once a week, right or yeah, yeah, so, and it was just like a lovely experience. You would show up, Lindsay, our producer would greet us, there's snacks in the kitchen, just a cozy sweet you know, like seeing your friends, you know, after the week you had or whatever. It was just at it was a really nice what a nice time we had.
Also, I want to give you a character a shout out in this episode when you know we're talking about Ezra's lightsaber and what everyone gave. I just I love seeing Sabine just rattle off technology and this and that, Like she's just so I mean, obviously there's the artistic side, but there's the munition side. Like I just I'm like, yes, I love that.
So cool.
I just learned. Yeah, I love it too. I when I did prottle off those whatever ba bat and I'm like, I don't know what any of it is, but she's so smart and so cool and she's so young, Like I would forget how young she was when we started, because she's capable and so you know, experienced and unflappable and she just knows her stuff. And yeah, when when when we get to those moments where she's like up up, up up, and it's all you know, just like she can do that stuff in her sleep, I'm like, oh, she's so cool.
She really is.
But it's funny though, because she's so I guess, so much more capable than Ezra in the sense that like they are only a few years apart, right, but like never does anyone go she's a kid.
Although I really loved I didn't remember.
Like a few episodes before this when she's like give me more responsibility, like I do everything I'm told, like keep me.
In the loop of everything.
That was the first time I ever realized, like, oh, yeah, she is younger than them. But it's just funny when Ezra, like you see in this episode, his fears manifest and it's always about being this kid and being like left out of that. But with so being she's so capable, and I feel like the opposite of Ra in that sense.
Yeah, I think it's also kind of like like life experience right like you, you, as Ezra had have had to I mean, you've had like a well, I think they've all had a rough go.
Of it find out by the end of the series.
But you know, you have your insecurities stem from a very obvious place. And and and we don't know yet fully what Sabines insecurities are and certainly not where they stem from really until you know further, you know, into the series.
But I think when it becomes a parent, you go, oh.
Okay, I see why she has, Like she doesn't let her insecurity show very much if she can help it, but she when when they do, you you and once you learn why, you go, oh, that's why she is so like like those few episodes back where she's like, I just you know, don't treat me like I'm a kid. I can do this, like, give me some more responsibility, give me the information I want to know, and Harrah's like, you need to pump the brakes and take it easy.
But yeah, I think it.
Just makes sense as knowing where Ezra comes from and what he's dealt with in his life, in his young life, and similarly, like Sabine's experience was very different and that's why her insecurities lie elsewhere, I think.
So it's all, it's all really fascinating.
One thing that I want A thought that popped up.
We're not unaware.
When you go to conventions, you talk to a bunch of fans of the shows, and one of the common things you hear is people are like, first season, like, I wasn't really sure, and then it got going, and I like, I've started to just parrot that's People like, when how's the show?
And I'm like, first season little and then it gets.
Gone, I don't know, And then watching this, I'm like, what are you talking about?
This is sick.
I agree.
I was like, this is.
So good so fast, Like I was she expecting it to take a while one because of like the consensus on it, but too just like I know where it goes, so I'm like, oh, it's going to take a bit, but I'm I'm all lan.
I also, yeah, at the beginning of the episode, when you're trying to find the temple and he says, we have to be careful, careful because the Imperials probably know where all these temples are, and they you know, they could be soon to arrive. That really put me in the timeline of Order sixty six and where this all. I mean, it just it made the stake so much higher. And I think that's why I was so riveted by what happened in the Temple. I was, please, please, you got to come through, man, like I knew you were going to. But I loved that I was so invested and freaked out, and that I hadn't seen this. That's another I thought I had seen all of them, but uh, yeah, it's just I'm almost glad that I hadn't seen this one because I could really just plug into all that. But I thought very much it ignited in that moment that all eyes are on you, and I mean, if that takes a minute to get going, no, dude, we're on fire. The time is now, Like that was a big deal.
Yeah, and that's very indicative of Star Wars. Even when you watch a new Hope the opening scene, you already feel like this is part of a much grander story, which of course is by design by George. Like George loves those action serials that are always part of a bigger story, cliffhanger endings, and you're getting the sense of that with this episode. But also It's like the ven diagram kind of became a circle here between the legacy stuff from George and then this new world that Dave was building and with all of you, because Yoda kind of bridge in that gap, and then the use of a lot of the original Williams score. I mean, the Kinder always kills it every single week, but you heard a lot of the classic music here, like even Yoda's theme and then Luke Skywalker's theme is it gets to the temple. But then at the same time, like as Ezra realizes his why, the music shifts a little bit, and it's so subtle, but once you once you hear it, you can't unhear it. Yeah, and then hearing you Taylor and Tia talk about your characters that way, it's really cool to hear it from the two of you. Because I always viewed Ezra and Sabine is like the two prodigies on the ship, kind of like if Doogie Howser had, you know, people that he had to compete with in school, it probably would have been the two of them. But the emotional maturity of Sabine's a little further on than Ezra. I think Sabine knows her why, and she's exploring the how. But up until this point, Ezra didn't know that. But now he's going to lean in, and that's when that gap between Ezra and Sabine starts to shrink a little bit because they're starting to get on the same wavelength.
But this was like the genesis of that a little bit which I thought was really.
She starts responding. She starts responding to him when he's okay.
So just a little bit.
She doesn't leave you on red on on the eye message anymore.
Yeah, Yeah, I like that.
I liked a lot.
There was another subtle a Ladin reference in this too, when you're on the fan, when Ezra and Canan are on the phantom and Ezra repeats like, oh, this is what you want and he goes, oh, he can be taught, And that was what the genie told to me. Yeah, yes, he.
Can be taught.
So this space of Ladin thing is very very much alive. Yeah, with that line of dialogue, Wow, good.
Call, good catch, good catch.
Yeah, Taylor, one question for you, because this is like the evolution of Ezra's like emotional arc to the best of your recollection, Like, after doing this episode, did you feel like this opened up something different in your performance as an actor, because like this was being open up for Ezra.
Uh.
I know, it's like a I don't making you go back like ten years, but it's interesting to me because once you've it's like an open world video game. Once you uncover that uncharted territory, there's kind of no going back. I'm just wondering if that dictated any of your choices going forward.
It's funny because, like I openly say, my memory is not the greatest thing, but the memories that do stick out are the ones that have like an emotional.
Attachment, you know what I mean.
And for me, the emotional attachment was always with the parents. Oddly, and I don't know what that says about me, but I do remember all of those scenes and how every time I understood more information about them and those emotional moments, it did feel like an unlocking, Whereas oddly this watching it, it would make sense that this would have been Yet that doesn't stand out to me weirdly in the journey, and I would probably have to psychoanalyze that further to figure out why. But that always felt like this was already latent within him. Whereas like the stuff about his parents, I feel like he just really had no idea at all and what to do with that, and as he got that information, he started to make sense to him. So whereas this, I think, like you said, at the very beginning, there was a fear that maybe he wasn't good enough for But he also there's that other thing of like maybe I am deserving him greatness and there don't I don't know, Like it's like that feeling before basketball game in high school, being like, well I could score fifty five points.
I'm like, I'm not gonna.
Do it, but I probably could, but meat and so I remember more exactly that sort of thought of going in like I mean, he doesn't necessarily expect me to succeed, but at the same time, like I'm built for this, you know what I mean.
So it didn't it didn't necessarily affect me as much, I guess looking back as the stuff with his family, and therefore I think all this stuff with the ghost and how important they are to him, I think, to me, that always meant more in my like character arc.
I like that it's almost like the way you phrase it like that, and thank you for that tailor, almost as if as we're up to this one was almost maybe semi haunted by this gift he was bestowed, like because he didn't have to do with it, almost like we talked about good Will hunting before, Like Will hunting. He never asked to be this genius and he doesn't because he doesn't know what to do with it.
He's like, I just.
Wanted this therapy, wasn't.
Yeah, yeah, and so are we. I think Ezra is basically Will Hunting of the Star Wars universe. Let's just say that.
And along those lines, I as you were talking about it, Taylor, and you're talking about you know, like going out and thinking there is a chance I could score fifty.
Five before, you know, like double nickel.
But I just I just and I say this with love and admiration, so I please know that. But like we it reminded me that when we started this thing, you were a little baby teenager. You were like a little Tandy Bopper Nickelodeon star, and you were cocky af you were hawky, Like I feel like you have matured quite a bit in the time that I've known you, and you've allays like you've always been a really thoughtful, cerebral person but I feel like so much of that like and cocky, not in a in a there was no like it was very sweet and like like that sort of teenage boy like kind of energy. And I think that that brought I think that element of who you were at the time I feel I mean, I've never talked to Dave about this, but I feel like you and like.
He goes, he goes, don't watch you any more stars and just keep that spirit. He's like, you don't know that when you're going up against Vader, you'll be like, well, why can't I shoot Vader then? And he's like, that is one hundred percent what we want. When he's on the thal, he's like, no one can stop me. And when he goes out in space, he's like, why would it change?
Right?
Right?
Right right?
And that was with Dave, like every time we'd just be like leaning harder on that and I'm like, is that like a little annoying?
And he's like, no, lean harder.
But just that element that was in you in a very sweet and kind of like adorable way of this like kind of kind of cocky personality, I think like added so much to who Ezra was, and that gives Ezra also like a place, like a starting point that then he sort of grows and matures and progresses, and we should get to see that journey through four seasons of the show.
And the one thing I'll add to on that is I think Freddy was hit to it because Freddie had a tra director that he was very familiar with then knew, and he I remember certain things you would say to me where you'd.
Be like trying to turn the dial on me a little bit, like.
A little less or like a little more, and I remember being like, oh, this is kind of fun, you know what I mean? And so I would sometimes push back, sort of manufactured to see what sort of reactions.
That could get with it.
But yeah, I know exactly what you mean, and so does Dave, because that was like the main thing Dave said to me.
Interesting, Yeah, love that.
Well, one of these things we're going to have to get your former coach, star Kevin Durant on here and talk about you scoring fifty five points, because uh, I love.
The only thing he will admit is that I beat him in a half court. You can call this. We both had five half cour shots and I hit two.
Oh here it is, So do you hear that? Katie? Until we I think.
It's on DVD extras or something like that. Oh well, listen, there's video video footage. I'm not just like making this out.
If I'm going to claim fair use if we use this as a social clip, because I would love to have like a like a slit screen so we can show you so much hate.
Also a fellow Longhorn, just for anyone who's interested in that.
Yeah, well, there we go, Well everybody, I think, if there's nothing else, it's time for our other favorite part of the podcast, just fact check with our boy JC.
What do we got today?
Okay, what do we have today? You guys talked about the kyber Crystal coming to Ezra. Where did that originate? How did that happen? What was the idea with that? I think the first time you ever heard kind of about crystal anything was in Return of the Jedi. Luke used like a little space heater in Obi Wan's hut to make his own kyber crystal. But the first time that it is ever like sought after and discovered by a Jedi was on the planet Ilum, which was from the Clone Wars. The Gathering, which was season five, episode six, although Ilum first appeared in a novel called Jedi Quest Path the Truth in two thousand and one, so that was significantly before the Clone Wars came out, and then again in two thousand and four Star Wars the Clone Wars micro series chapters fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, featuring the planet Ilum with Padme. She's wearing that like classic snow bunny costume, but we don't. It has nothing to do with Jedi or Kyber Crystal. And then the first time we ever hear about Kyber Crystal is actually an Allen Dene Foster's Splinter of the Mind's Eye novel that came out in nineteen seventy nine, but that had nothing to do with Lightsabers or the Death Star. It was all about a crystal that like enhanced the Force. It made it like more powerful. It was like steroids for the Force. So there's a little bit about Kyber Crystal. Something I noticed in this episode when Ezra and Canaan are fighting the Inquisitor, they go into slow motion.
There's there's slow motion in the in the show.
And I had had an interesting talk once upon a time with somebody who worked at LucasArts who was trying to get slow motion into the video games of Star Wars, and the people in charge said Star Wars doesn't use slow motion, and he said it does in Empire Strikes Back when Luke goes down into the Dark Side Cave to face off against Darth Vader, who actually ends up being his own work, you know, his self.
Spoiler alert, spoiler alert.
For yeah, almost a fifty year old movie. Spoiler alert stats that they go into slow motion there. So slow motion is in the visual language of Star Wars when a character is going through an emotional journey, particularly Jedi, having to deal with emotions and fear and the dark Side. So it was pretty cool to see that visual language repeated here in this episode of Rebels. Taylor, you mentioned Joseph Campbell. Just a little background on Joseph Campbell for people who are like, what are you guys talking about. He wrote a book called Hero with a Thousand Faces, where he's that his book is kind of the origin of the hero's journey. You hear so much in Hollywood the books I must read for basically everybody. But if it's a little bit thick or dry, which it can be. There's a great PBS series which was actually taped at Skywalker Ranch with Bill Moyers called Joseph Campbell and The Power of Myth, which is a six hour series chopped up into one hour parts, and ye, it was all taped at Skywalker Ranch, and then at the back end of it, as like bonus features, Bill Moyers talks about Star Wars with George Lucas and connects George what George is talking about to all the stuff that Joseph Campbell talks about years and years before about the history of myth. I think if you into that, you want to go further. There used to be a traveling exhibit called Star Wars the Magica Myth that started in nineteen ninety seven at the Smithsonian Museum and then hit like I think eight other museums, traveling across the country. It wrapped up in two thousand and three. There's a great companion book that you can probably find on eBay about that. It had Star Wars costumes like see three pos costume and all these different costumes and then the little background on how those like Darth Vader's helmet connected to Japanese samurai helmets. And things like that really really cool. There's also a two thousand book called Star Wars and the Power of Myth that just if you're like, I don't want to think at all, it's just like Obi Wan Kenobi is Merlin, Luke Scott Walker is his character.
Like, it's just like flat out tells you, so, wait, what'd you say?
That was?
Also, we talked about Ezra's lightsaber. The while never confirmed, the popular thought amongst everybody is that Ezra incorporated his slingshot into the lightsaber.
Hill That's what it looks like.
Yeah, so that's kind of like where did Ezra's slingshot go? It's part of his lightsaber. And that's kind of While never I don't think confirmed as canon, that's kind of what everybody assumed.
If you say it's cannon at this point in mind, you guys.
Talked about the best lightsabers tailor you looked up rancor whatever's best lightsabers. I'm gonna say that from a certain point of view, at a certain time in the episode one movie, when those doors open and Darth Maul hits both sides of it is that moment was like a watershed moment for Star Wars fans, but I will say he's not the first person to have a double bladed lightsaber. It first appeared in the comic books and the Jedi Search novels with the character x R. Kohn, who was a Sith lord from the planet Or who died on the planet Yavin Four and all this stuff. His double bladed lightsaber was small though. It was like, it wasn't long like a stuff like Darth Mauls. It was just like kind of a one handed thing, which once upon a time I was talking to Ray Park and he had said that initially Darth Maul's lightsaber was supposed to be a regular like twelve inch or whatever it is, eight inch lightsaber handle, and he requested the prop makers make it long so that he could spin it around his back and around his hand because the center of is more in the center.
Wow, you guys figured it out.
Calcastus is from the book the video game Jedi Fallen Order.
Yeah, I think didn't we play that in Nashville or I played it with Carly King? Yeah, sorry, I didn't remember going.
And then my last thing is Taylor, you talked about parroting the fan hot takes from conventions which is Rebels takes a minute to get going, but when it gets going, it really gets going. And you were like, that's not this feels like Star Wars out the Gate, John, you talked about Star Wars from the opening shot with the blockade runner. I just wanted to say, for anybody who doesn't know, George Lucas's famous direction that Carrie Fisher, Mark Hamill and Harrison Ford always used to tease him about was they would do everything and no matter what they did, George Lucas's direction was faster, more intense, and I think Star Wars Rebels captures faster, more intense out the game.
I love that. Thank you.
That's great. You guys really both out did yourselves on this one.
Jac and I have been colluding each week. How can we make it better? How can we make it better? Because you know, like we want to make sure we don't let anybody down.
So well, you've out done yourselves. Thank you.
That was great, Love it, Love it well everybody. Thank you again for listening and joining us each week for our hangouts here. Remember rate subscribe. You can write to us Potter Rebellion Podcast at gmail dot com. If you have fan art questions, fan theories, Uh, your favor, tell us your favorite lightsaber, yes, the exactly tell us your favorite lightsaber? And why is the dark saber we would love to get. Hopefully times new Roman twelve point five Double Space Essays will be on the way with that. And uh, jac it's it's fitting you mentioned the Jedi Search novels because on the cover that is Linde cover is. And in next week's episode we're discussing an episode who may or may not the man with the many capes? So but until then, Taylor, you want to send us out? Who wants to send us out?
The music?
There we go.
Potter Rebellion is produced in partnership with iHeart Podcasts producer, hosted by Vanessa Marshall, Tia Surkar, Taylor Gray, and John may Brody executive producer and in house star wars guru slash factchecker J C. Reifenberg. Our music was composed by Mikey Flash. Our cover art was created by Neil Fraser of Neil Fraser Designs. Special thanks to Holly Frean, Aaron Kaufman over at iHeart, Evan krascoor At William Morris Endeavor, Tresa Canobio, George Lucas for creating this universe we love so much, and of course all of our amazing listeners. Follow us on Instagram at Potter Rebellion and email list at Potter Rebellion Podcasts at gmail dot com
