Pod of RebellionFrom the arrival of Grand Moff Tarkin to the Ghost Crew having a bounty on their backs to a chilling foreshadowing from Kanan. And what is up with Sabine's rangefinder on her helmet? And Chopper is like a cat? All this and a super sized fact check from J.C. is what awaits in this episode!
Dave always said that our two was a dog and Chopper is a cat, and so your cat is like man like. You don't know exactly which nouns and verbs were expressed with that, but you.
Get the gist. Hey, what's up everybody.
It's Vanessa Marshall, the voice of Harrison Doula, Specter two, and with me today.
Hi, it's Taser Car Sabine run Specter five.
And we've got.
Hayla Gray, Ezra Bridger or Specter six. And with us is.
Hey, I'm John Ley Brody, the Nonspector, full on moderator, and today we are talking about season one, episode thirteen, Call to Action. Here we go, how's everybody doing? Little check in at the top of the show, as always, cause you know, we're friends, and this check in is also for our listeners too. We love everybody, We love you all, And how's everybody doing great?
Yeah as well? Yeah, how are you doing? John? We know that, John, Thank you. I feel so seen good.
And you know, it's really fun again I say this every week gets so fun rewatching the show. But now we're ramping up towards the end of season one, which is kind of wild. It feels like we got here really quickly, and you really see things coming to a head and leading up to some sort of grand finale. It's it's really exciting, and watching it through a different lens is a lot of fun. And I cannot wait to hear what you think of this one. And then the next couple episodes are coing over have a lot of stuff too, So we've got a lot of We've got a lot of stuff.
So yeah, thank you for asking.
I appreciate that, my pleasure. All right, So with that said, shall we do my recap? I tried to truncate this down because there's so much in this episode, and I know there's a lot to discuss, but so I'm going to get through this and then let's let's see what goes from there, all right. Season one, episode thirteen, called Action Original air day, January twenty sixth, twenty fifteen.
Here comes the recap.
The Ghost CRU's latest actions have gained so much attention that Grandma Tarkan himself has traveled to Lethal to express his dissatisfaction on with how things are being handled. He wants the Rebel stopped, and he wants them stop now. It was a golf Travis is selling his soul to the Empire is now public, and he even throws the Ghost Crew under the bus and puts a bounty on their heads. This latest roadblock and the feeling of overall lack of forward progress makes Ezra feel like the team has always taken two sets forward, two sets back, like Paula Abdul in nineteen eighty eight. But Canaan shares a plan to infiltrate an imperial communications tower so they can broadcast the message to citizens and do what a Laddin should have done in the beginning with Jazzon, which is tell them the truth, a plan that naturally everyone is on board with.
Grandmo.
Tarkan meanwhile, is like Tommy Lee Jones and the Fugitive, ordering the troops, the church in every residence, space house, dog's hand house, farm house, lavin, these rebels, that's my time with these Jones vote. All these things come to a head with the when the Ghost Crew puts the full plan into play and gets ambushed by the Empire at the communications tower, with the walls closing in and the thought of a bigger goal, and this prompts Canaan to make a needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few type decision when he stays behind to take on the empire. As the rest of the group sticks to the plan, the crew is successful and able to broadcast their message the citizens with as are emphasizing the need for everyone to stand up together. However, this small victory comes with the worry of whether anyone even heard the message and also at the great cause of Canaan being captured by the Empire. Though the mood is rather somber and a big piece of the group missing. Harah assures everyone that, like the Lenny Kravitz song from nineteen ninety one, it ain't over till it's over. And that is the recap for Season one, episode thirteen, Call to.
Action problem, Well done, Duel.
Let's go.
That's the first thought I had when I saw it in twenty fifteen, and then on the rewatch when and as I said, and like, oh, like the Paul au Duels song, every win, we get a lose. So everybody initial thoughts. What's what comes to mind as we dive back into this episode.
The very first thought I had is at the artwork in the very opening scene of this episode is gorgeous, Like I know, our the artwork on this show is just beautiful and it gets I feel like it gets better and better as the seasons progress. But man, that just that first shot is so sick. And of course obviously the music is like, you know, goosebump inducing.
Oh, but I love the episode.
Yeah, the Imperial March, which I'm incredible. You're just like, oh my god, like that no matter how many times you've heard it, every time.
Right, every time, it just grabs you. Yeah, yeah, good, No.
No, I was just gonna say, you know, I had a lot of thoughts about this episode. We'll we'll talk about it, but just overall, I just the this episode, and I feel like the next episode really take everything to like the next level and things start to feel really like the stakes are much higher, and uh, I don't know, I just feel like, okay, things it almost feel like more and more cinematic to me, and it's exciting because I actually should be told. I think I said this last time too. I forgot this. I was it was like I was Taylor and I was watching it for the first time.
I didn't remember anything shot shot. I just I didn't.
It was like, I'm like, did I watch this episode ten years ago because this is amazing and I didn't I admittedly I didn't remember really the plot points, so it was like very exciting to watch almost for the first time.
Yeah, I agree, the art beautiful that they do landscape so well. Oh yeah, but it feels like now it's going from There are some episodes that feel like procedural, like like we're watching a procedural and this feels like, Okay, now we're tapping into a sort of bigger story arc with characters. I have a question for JC or anyone where grand mov Tarkan falls in the hierarchy. I was trying to explain it and I was like, yeah, it's basically the Emperor Grandmoth target. I have no idea if that is right. I'm like, wait, where does this dude fall? So that question is for Tia. We'll get answered. But no, I thought it was I thought it was really cool, although I also I was looking at an image of something later on, maybe John or vanessln is did they not know how to light the show? At the beginning, it's like two dimensional lighting on everything, and then later seasons it's like they're lighting it cinematically, like it the lights are in the right place for like a Fincher film, almost like when they're in the when they're with the wolves, you see you can just see on the shadows of them, whereas the lighting here you notice there's no shadow on the face. It's just like a ringline right on the frame. Does that make sense? Yes?
Yeah, interesting when you.
Look at frames of it, like when we go to Collins and you sign like a print, you notice too, like there is more of a cinematic frame on some of it. And I noticed this even though it sort of stemmed from the catalyst was I was like, oh, wow, this is a beautiful frame. But then I was thinking further along.
I don't know, I.
Noticed, Yeah, I noticed that as well, both in the ghost and also exterior shots and the things with the animals, like the loth cat. Things just had a greater richness or dimension that I'm like, I don't really remember that in the first episode, so maybe they did find it. But there were many there were many moments like with the inquisitor with like sort of what was going on in the night sky behind him, and there was so much more dimension. What the moonlight even looked like on Canaan's face. The music gave me chills at the beginning as well, and the loth cat stuff I thought was hilarious. I was also distracted by Jason Isaac as the inquisitor because I just, you know, I just can't get the white Lotus out of my head. I was like, Wow, this guy is such range. Gosh, yeah, we can be happy. We can be happy with nothing or you know, like whatever, and and you know now he's Canaan's worst nightmare.
But uh, I also was I love Sabine is such the way you like, you know, you go in you break this punch that like you handled biz and I loved.
I loved seeing that, and uh I felt I felt a level of community again. I just it just gets more and more. I also do not remember watching this at the time, or if I did, for some reason, in this rewatch it foreshadowed Canaan's sacrifice later gosh, yes, So I kept thinking, like, how innocent were you?
Spoiler?
You like you thought this was you think this is bad. Oh, it's gonna get way worse, Like you know how it's a little appetizer for how they deal with his absence, that sort of heartbreak and regret and needing to follow Folkram's orders versus you know. I love that Ezra's like, yeah, whatever you know, and that that you guys go and get it done. Well, yes, of course, but I'm saying the problem, the problems that are presented in this are later solved in a way that you know, at the end of this episode, we we can't do that. So uh anyway, Yeah, I also love the banter between Ezra and Canaan in terms of him sort of getting you motivated to do this to you know, to get you to say count me in. I don't know, I really, I just I felt I kept saying to myself, like, wow, you were really involved in something very special. You know the way zeb is like, ah, you know, doing whatever he's doing, and I love how he interacts as other Stormtroopers. I'm like, wait, Steve's fighting himself.
Hold on, That's what I said that in my mind yesterday, I was like, oh, that's Steve on Steve action right there.
Oh wait, something else and then and then Steve Stanton also as Tarkan, was incredible, So we'll have him come talk to us at some point here. But I don't know, it was just really blown away in general.
Yeah, what you said, I wasn't sure this is a Rebels rewatch, So I'm I guess we can assume that people have already seen the show, because I was like, how much can we say this early on? But Vanessa just did it, so I'll piggyback off here.
I think our statute of limitations on spoiler alert is safe. It's been more than ten years.
Yeah, like watching this episode felt so much more. Okay, first of all, when we watched this episode the first time, for those of us who did, I'm not naming.
I'm not calling anyone else. What did I do today? I mean, I don't remember. I'm kidding, I kidding the ad ats, but I don't know.
Well no, I'm just saying that obviously none of us knew what was to come, and so the the gravity of the situation was even though it is a really you know, it's it's emotional, like that scene between Canaan and Ezra when Ezra is having doubts about going through with the plan.
I mean, it's so touching and poignant, but.
Knowing what we know happens, you know further down the line, it makes this sacrifice or this you know, willingness to sacrifice himself for the greater good like that much more powerful and meaningful.
And yeah, I was.
Like, oh no, this is this is this is just like a little a little uh tidbit or a little like pre pre cursor to what the pain we're all going to feel when you rewatched those later.
Yeah, I don't know, it's gonna be hard. Yeah, totally.
I have a this is I'm sure y'all can answer this question. But you know, we got to give jac something to do at the end. Right when at the top of the show, when they're talking about like the people are like Jedi, what do you mean there couldn't possibly be a Jedi. That's some ancient mystic something something. I'm like, wait, how long ago from when these people are having this conversation? Was ordered sixty six because I thought I knew the I thought I.
Knew the answer, and it didn't.
The way they're talking in the beginning of the episode, it sounds like ancient history, like us talking about druids or something.
Does that make sense?
I was just curious as to why it sounds like it was so far back in time that people are like, it's unbelievable that there might be a Jedi alive and jediing.
Currently, it's probably been at least ten because as there's what thirteen fourteen years old, and he's the same age as Luke and Leo. So if you put do the math there, I would say it's been about fourteen years ish.
That's not long enough to be like, oh Jedi, No, couldn't be fourteen years.
I mean, I think it's more.
I don't know.
I could be wrong, JC will know, But I think it's more that they were annihilated instantly everywhere, and it's not so much so much time as but it does. The way they talk about it is like, oh, back in the ancient history. Yeah, but I but I I feel like more than time, it's just it's impossible that there would be a Jedi because they've all been deleted in a way like that that's a thing of the past. It's a relic that is no longer just because literally all those files were deleted. So but but but maybe it has been longer than I realized. I don't. I don't think it's been that long though. You weren't like that though.
It's very interesting because with the empire ruling with this like Iron fist. They don't want people to even acknowledge this past history. It's just like in the show Silo which David Oh is in Oh that deals with these rebels that trying to figure out this hidden history that was a race. And you know, again we don't get too far into what's going on in the world now, but that is happening now in the world, like certain things are being a race from the archives. So with that both you saying that, I'm like, oh, like the way he's going about it, if his attitude is well, I don't even don't even acknowledge that. To me, that never happened. Don't don't even go there. But jac will have a better.
In depth.
I have logic question on that then, like how if Jedi come about, you don't have to be born to a Jedi to be a Jedi, correct, Like if the Sith are there, that's the antithesis of a Jedi, but same sort of spiritual power, correct, Like they're able to tap into the force negatively, how could they be Like, well, there must not be any Jedi for fifteen years when a Jedi can just be born like like take an Ezra, right, I get they have to be trained, but like they can have within them this ability, this innate thing that would be a Jedi, Like how could you be well, for fifteen years none was born, how would you know that? Well?
The Mediclorians that were introduced in episode one that Anakin had Medichlorians in his blood count like it's a it's a tangible thing that can be groomed into you know, Jedi or said then again, JC will pontificate, I'm sure, but I think if you delete that DNA everywhere, yes, yes, you can have people who are for sensitive. I mean like Jason has probably my son probably has Medichlorians because he's Canaan's kid. I don't know.
But you don't have to only be born to a Jedi to be no, right like ephrom Bridger and they weren't Jedi, right right right?
I think, well, this is this is the controversy with bringing midichlorians into it, because originally what made you a Jedi as far as like old school episode before me, you know with my mullet going to see the movie, was you were given a hero's journey and you either take it or you don't, and then you build things within yourself to do the right thing over and over and you build that sense and awareness of you know, all everything Yoda said, okay, and that he was able to cultivate that given the training, et cetera, like you're saying, and then you know, episode one comes around the prequels and suddenly there's this midichlorian thing that like, wait a minute, what do you mean there's like a cell count. What are you talking about? It's an intangible thing. So JC is going to have to clear this up officially, I think, don't you think, John.
Yeah, yeah, he'll get into the bacteria of the course of the forest. But I think you bring up an interesting point, Taylor, because they only want to acknowledge a sith Again. I think it's just elitist attitude, like this is the supreme thing, and look, maybe we should get Malcolm Gladwell on here somehow with this revisionist history.
I would go crazy. I think that would be a good guest.
Because I think that would be a really cool breakdown the parallels with thin like the Roman Empire, Nazi Germany and all this stuff, because when you draw all those things, there's correlations of oh, these are the supreme race, which I feel like that's how they would view the Sith. The Jedi were beneath them and they were erased, and they are never coming back. So the three that's really thought provoking. Malcolm Gladwell, please, we would love more.
I don't want to keep going in this sort of recursive way, like there's more to that that makes sense because if you erase people, we know you have to be born, your parents are your DNA. But if a Jedi doesn't need to be born to Jedi parents, and it is something that is just manifest in the world, then how could you possibly be like there's none out like for fifteen years, they're never born again. It just doesn't make it. He sense to me. Do you see what I mean?
Like, well, I think, yeah, go ahead and finish. Uh well, I think from from what I understand and I and then this is like you know j c is kind of has a doctorate in this. But the you know when you hear Palpatine, you know, Anakin gets seduced by the dark side. He you know, you use your anger, you know, you use your dark energy, and you go toward that. As a Jedi, you you cease fighting, you surrender, you yield, you you kind of I Keto a situation you you cultivate the ability to you know, as excuse me, Luke Skywalker meets his father who you know spoiler alert there, but you know he he wants him to go to the dark side, and Luke could have killed him, but he has mercy in that moment with his father, Like those are not that's not the path of the sith like that. Did did Luke Skywalker have mindic Chlorine's you know? Or did he cultivate that with Yoda's training and obi Wan and this and that? Like You're making a really good point, and I cannot wait for JC to address this because to the extent that the Yoda training, the obi Wan training, if those people are no longer here, you wouldn't know. Like Caanaan, sorry, Canaan feels incomplete because his master was killed. You know, he never got like the he never made it to twelfth grade if you were will like as a sophomore, his teacher died. So he feels inadequate to teach you what happens in twelfth grade because he only made it to tenth grade. So there is a measure of training and surrender and the habit of going to the you know, sort of the light side, if you will, as opposed to the dark side. Enough training of that, you know that, as we saw Anakin do with Ahsoka. If you if you no longer have that, that's certainly deadens the odds of someone with force sensibility doing anything with it. So if all your teachers are gone, it's safe to say that's highly unlikely that like, yeah, they might be for sensitive, but they're not going to know how to mold and shape that and train themselves, you know, as Canaan tries to do with you, and as you see Ezra naturally do as as as troubled situations come about, like as they have with the Inquisitor, et cetera. You see Ezra use his abilities like that. So there is some kind of intrinsic sense of what you need to do because you kind of have done a few of those moments.
On your Nay, I've been doing it in on the thal from something. Yes, it begs the question for me then, is to being not a Jedi?
I would says.
If genuinely, if it works in that way, I get the two things, the medicalorian aspect of it and then the like spiritual innate thing that you then foster within someone with training. If she's been with Canan the whole as well and have this training. When she wields the Dark Sapper, I'm like, is that not a Jedi?
Then, well she's a Mandalorian. I mean, my god, how are all the things? She's all the things? Bro, she's I mean there's so many lads.
Can you Mandalorian? And uh Jedi?
Why not.
You know this?
This is raising so many interesting like philosophical questions too, because I think of like socrates theory of recollection because he believed you'll learn stuff you come in like you're uncovering what was already there. So it's like you're so the fact is it was kids met for ez Read to be a Jedi because he always was one. He just had to uncover it. And yeah, so it's a very interesting thing. And back then there's no TikTok victorials on using your Midichlorian power, so yeah, you just had to figure it out.
We might need to have j C come in like flag on the field, like, I don't know, man, what people are in it? Hold on, we got her in it.
Stick around, but uh, one more question for JC is there such thing? It's like a like a synthetic midi chlorian like in Compound V and the Boys where you can inject yourself Like, is there like a midiclorin steroid that somebody could give themselves if they weren't for sensitive and then become for sensitive.
I hope not. That's cheating, I know, but like it happens.
So that's the new trilogy that I M. Kimberg's working on.
That's and it's gonna have its own thirty for thirty and everything and the controversy behind it. And this person wasn't really a Jedi, and that's why they won the the Cathalon, the Jedi Games. It's all about the Jedi pds. This whole episode had a very like Empire Strikes Back sort of vibe. Uh you know which which next week's episode does two which which which we'll get into when we get there. And the big thing that prompted the one of the things that prompted the Empire strikes Back thing was the pro Droid because the first time I saw the pro dui Empire strikes Back. I'm throwing this to JC because I know j C will know the origins of this pro Droid. He probably JC is probably fluent in the pro droid lineguage, but that distinct I was like, oh my god, Like it just took me back to that place. And then the arc of which this episode took was very Empire strikes back instead a Han, it's Kanaan that gets left behind and now it's up to the rest of the crew to hopefully get his rescue. So Jas pro Droid and Midiclorians.
Yeah, the music really harkened back to those original devastating moments in the movies. I felt like it really cashed in on that sound that that that music just takes us right to those stakes.
You know.
It was really I don't want to use the word triggering because that can be negative, but like I was in the second I mean I was like, who is this? Is this Palpatine? Oh it's Tarkan, you know, like who is you know the the opening with the destroyer ship coming in, I was like, wait, is this Vader? I don't remember what's happening. I know, I was like, is Vader about you arrived? Because I didn't remember this episode at all, but really ominous, Yeah, really very scary.
Also, the hologram of the Ghost Crew when he puts us on blast, I'm like, we look so badass.
You were like sick. Yeah.
I was like, Oh, do you want people to think we're bad guys and help us get caught or do you want to make us look like the coolest crew in the galaxy and make like little kids want to grow up to be us? Because I'm thinking the latter is more likely.
It's like, it's like the jail photos person so tracking to get out after three months and now you signed a wim.
Dancing with the stars and everything. Convict. No, what was saying hot convict?
I think anyway, Yeah, that we were we were hot convicts in that hologram.
I was very I was like, okay, I know, I was thinking I want to get I want a copy of that. I know I want to shirt. We don't have some.
I've never seen that image in anything else.
But I think I've seen that. I've seen Hara in that position where she's sort of running somewhere else before, but I don't I'd like that. That's like a cutout sticker collection.
An you mean, if anyone listening knows of like that image existing somewhere, whether it's like an art print or merch or something.
Would you let us.
Know because I'm I'm I'm I want something with that holagram image of us, and.
We'll bring you on the show to present it. How about that actually incentive because we do want to bring some fans on the show. So something I want to bring up too, because we're talking about how this hits way different when you know how it all ends up when we get to the end of the seventy seventy seven is episodes Agent Callus, because we know where that ends up. Ultimately, his reaction when the Inquisitor kills those two troopers, you start to see the beginning of maybe I've joined the wrong side.
Yes, that was so interesting. His facial expression and his eyes didn't his eyes seem so profoundly sharp? I felt like I saw into his soul. It was more it was the animation was more soulful somehow. I don't know that the glimmer they're like a hazel color. It was so powerful as compared to the inquisitors are sort of like yellow and catlike.
But was he not already He's not already a double agent at this point?
I don't wait, wait kidding, I think ye when is that revealed? Right, that's like a season you siled it for me.
Yeah, that's like.
A season three thing.
Yet.
Okay, but it's you know again, like it makes me really appreciate the road mapping of this entire series because it's very like Dan Fogelman is one of the best to do it. Like when you watch this A is Us, you see there was a clear plan of where to take these just when you watch Paradise, a clear plan of where these characters are going.
It's along those lines with this.
When I'm rewatching, I'm like, oh my god, like all the seeds were clearly planted. Or even Canaan's sacrifice line if you know anything about writing, like, okay, he's going to do something in this episode. He's probably going to get captured. You don't know that this is going to be an even bigger, bigger, bigger thing wait on the line. And even Ezra's speech at the end, because as we know, a word ends up with Ezra. He has this amazing speech. You know, I know the spoileringer. This whole episode is spoiler alerts. It's it makes me appreciate so much more, Like you know, like in procedurals they had, like the red yarn that connects everything, like there's a clear roadmap that took us to where we're supposed to go, and everything was almost there in plain sight, but we had to earn it in order to get there, you know.
I think it's also this show also does stuff about sort of healing your past, not living at the affect of your past. Ezra is afraid he's going to lose his new family like he lost the last one. And believe me, there are plenty of terrifying things going on in the world that would make anyone just get in bed and never get out ever again. But he transforms the experience by finding his voice, by being the one who makes this speech. And in a way, obviously, I know we lose Canaan and his worst fears come true to a certain extent, but I feel like in that moment, it's almost like when therapists tell you to go back to that time and reimagine it or whatever, that there is something very magical that does indeed happen with him doing exactly what his parents wants did, which is speaking truth to power and helping people that it was more important to give people hope and unify them than it was to live at the affect of his trauma.
Yeah, that end sequence was really I mean not just emotional, but like inspiring, especially again without getting into specifics with like kind of the climate that we're living in. I don't mean, I mean sure, I also mean climate that like sort of a sociopolo appliment that we're living in. You know, this idea of like personal sacrifice for the greater good, uh is really inspirational. And uh Ezra's speech and just the imagery juxtaposed it was like got me good.
Yeah. And and like the communications tower, making that such a sort of central attack point for multiple sides of this sort of war is very apropos interesting. Yeah, I'm attacking it and taking it over all of that it's I mean, yeah, they touched on.
It, and it's so interesting. Sorry, now I'm like, stop me before I get to go down this. But and maybe this is I don't want to jump ahead to the next episode, but I think maybe this is touched on in the next episode. But it's like the the empire is who destroyed the communications tower, but then to the public eye they are led to believe or allowed to believe or encouraged to believe that the rebel cell is the one that was responsible for destroying the South the communications tower. How interesting that like propaganda and you know what what we what they want us to know or believe, and how easy it is for that information to be proliferated.
You know, great commentary on the power of media and how they can work both ways totally and how false information and this is out there, like false information travels exponentially faster than actual information, you know, actual factual stuff. We know this, it's out there. This isn't groundbreaking news. But this was such a great and it was such a great way to put that on its head with one as was message getting out through the citizens where it's it gave them permission to have hope. Where the reason why the rebels are such heroes is they didn't wait for permission, like we're gonna take this upon ourselves, because if we wait for someone to give us permission to be rebels, we would never been rebels. And that's why that's the difference maker. But you being that catalyst with others, and that's going to spark something in them to say, oh yeah, like we can do this this is something that's innate. This is something we just got awaken. And when I hear Ezra's lineup, do you think anybody heard? Which is a valid worry. It reminded me of that whole conundrum of if a tree falls in the woods and nobody's around, doesn't make a noise, and the general answers, well, no, because no one's around, sound can't exist. And my whole take on that was always and I remember I brought this up in like philosophy classes, what about what the tree thinks?
Preside? What do you mean?
I'm like, well, if I'm that tree, and I felt, I know I made a noise. I don't care if other people around, like I know I made a noise. Yeah, you can't say that the noise didn't exist. And I felt like that was ultimately a lesson that was going to get to Azra. It's like, hey, you got to say what you got to say. Whoever hears it, here's it, but you got to make sure it starts here, and then whoever jumps on jumps on. So it's a lot of powerful messages.
And that's the whole Cartesian George Berkeley philosophical thing is dick Cart said I think therefore I am, so he exists, and then George Berkeley came along one hundred years later and said, I am perceived, therefore exists. Mean it's not perceived. You could say I'm the kindest person in the world, but you could be like, he's not. Then I'm not. No matter, Okay, a look, chill.
That was unintentional.
But but yeah, it's that whole thing, and the fact that it is brought up in this type of story is so cool. But I had an issue with Mandalorian here.
This is it?
No, this would be in I'm sure it's an other things when they're hiding Canaan, Ezra and Sabine flip the thing down because like, if I was wearing a hat and I was hiding with you guys over an edge, I would take my hat off and I'm like, yo, she brings it down to look through it, flip it all the way back because it's sticking up, like literally saying look here. And I'm like, do all Mandalorians do you like a tactical, amazing, amazing tactician. I'm like, come on that one, fell I want.
To defend myself or defend Sabine, But I don't really have a good defense there Is it serving a function by being up like that? Is there some other jaz Is there some justification for this?
Can you help me out? It's right here. I'm just saying, like my student, like, does it need to maybe it needs to pick stuff up, That's what.
I'm saying, Like, maybe it's tell me when it flips down, and she's like in the scene, looks through it. It's working, so clearly it works when.
It's maybe there's a solar panel on the under side.
So when it's not, George.
Don't charge you while we're about to get killed.
I'm going to need your help, okay, because I don't have any I got nothing right now.
It's not on you, it's on you. I'm just like through all Mandalorians, I think it's yeah.
Fair question. I don't like it, but it's a fair question. Also not to put you on blast. Not put you on blast. But I thought that your your performance was really wonderful at the end when you're delivering the message to the masses, and it's like it's so perfectly it's perfectly Ezra and it's perfectly tailor, which I guess we've come to, you know, those are kind of one and the same, but like it's not heavy handed.
It's not like Sacharine and.
Overly sort of like pushing, you know, kind of beating us over the head.
With a hammer.
It's just like it's so perfectly Ezra, but it's really also like deeply emotional.
That was I said a.
Nice thank you, thank you, thank you. I thought there was a butt coming back. No, that was thank you. Yeah. I enjoyed it. I thought it was really cool, and they was really good about that with us, like allowing because that's my own personal thing. I love a message more than anything you guys have. But I also think the way you say it is so important. I think a lot of messages are lost nowadays all the time. Even some of my friends. I'm like, oh, I get what you're getting at, but like, yeah, okay, cool, it's so poignant to you, isn't it. Like we can also how it is delivered matters. But then there's also the thing which I probably run sometimes where it's you're almost too Cavali with non shalant. But I'm like, well, no, listen to what's being said. But my mom growing up us to always be like, yeah, but it's how you're saying it. Well.
Also, the other thing is it sounds like, because Ezra is an old soul and a tailor, I always felt that you were an old soul as well. It sounds like something a fourteen year old who is an old soul would say. Where sometimes and a lot of these show sometimes you'll get shows where whether it's a teen drama or whatever, they're giving them this really sophisticated dialogue. And not that Ezra's not not that as in cable having sophisticated dialogue, but it was sophisticated. But it wasn't like he wasn't trying to use big sat words or anything. It was just very sincere and truthful. And what really came from Ezra some of the brain of a fourteen year old who had to grow up very very fast, who was also growing up in this episode, like literally like he went from somebody's like whatever, I'll steal yogan fruit, I don't care to really caring about tomorrow, which I don't think that was a priority for Ezra before. And I just love that talk with Jim Canaan and Ezra so much. It reminded me of like Rocky three, Like Rocky. There's this part in Rocky three where Rocky's talking to Adrian because he doesn't want to fight Clever Lang. He's like, look at it. Before, when I was a fighter, I didn't have a family, I didn't have all this, and now I'm scared of losing it. So I'm afraid of losing and where. And then the flip side of that is Canaan's talking about sacrifice not letting the fear of failure get to you, which again we've talked about life lessons on rebels, that's a great one. But when he says, I didn't understand it what my master told me, but I think I understand now, and I felt like that's something we can all take with us as kids. At least when I was a kid, I assumed every adult had all the answers. I assume my teacher knew everything. It's only when you get older you realize adults are trying to figure stuff out like anybody else. You realize teachers are trying to figure it out, and parents there's no you know, they're trying to figure it out. There's no instruction manual. Oh yeah, this is step one, step two and that's so powerful right there.
But he doesn't say it like that.
He's like, I understand it now, And you realize Ezra's going to understand it too, and it probably has to get there quicker because he's growing up very fast.
I forgot I had wrote this down that you, Ezra, without any bidding from Canaan, your Jedi master whatever, that you immediately keyed into the loft cat. And that to me was much like we lose Canaan later. You have a whole thing with Pergols like whatever. That connection that you have with animals is is profound and a life saver for all of us. And this, I mean, you've connected with animals before, but this in particular, to me, was foreshadowing where your character is going in terms of how you use the force to have other animals come right. Well, didn't I guess that happened with the myn ox as well. Yeah, I just like, yeah, exactly, A fur knocks, that's it. Sorry, Yeah, I need more coffee.
But we all need we need a coffee sponsor. So if anyone's out there, let's go. We'll gladly do all the ad reads for you.
Yeah, but I thought that was another cool example of where your character is heading, and it was adorable.
Yeah, the nature versus using nature against uh the Empire?
Yeah, Jedi doctor Doolittle.
I mean I've got another hot take. I've got it.
Let's do it, not take and then I think we can take that right into jac So I think that may.
Feeling take brought.
To you by coffee sponsor here. So just let let you all know.
Why do we all understand Chopper? And Chopper understands all of us and we all speak English, but then won't speak English for the sake of Is it like, why won't the droid speak English so that everyone else can understand watching the show? But we understand him and he understands us. We're speaking in English to.
Him, But not everybody understands Chopper?
Right, it seems like it.
No, Sorry, I don't mean every member of the Ghost Crew understands Chopper?
Is that right?
Does Zeb?
Does Zeb always understand.
That bicker back and forth? Yeah?
Okay, true, But don't other people that are not part of the Ghost Crew not understand? Aren't there times I might be wrong? But aren't there times where someone's like, what did he say? Or they don't understand. But you know one of us is like, oh, he doesn't like your you know, doesn't like the cut of your GiB or.
Whatever, Like, how do I understand a draw like I've I've never been in space, I don't know anything. How do I understand destroyed? And it's like, we have the technology to build lightsabers, have transports move without wheels. We can't have him speak English.
You you might oh, you're here's the things.
Off a lot of Star Wars. Fancy that's I mean same with artis. I'm like, dude, I was just gonna understand English. You understand English? Why not? We have the craziest technology in the galaxy. You could translate that for fans. I think it's story.
What you're saying is you think everyone should speak English?
Is that what I'm well, you said, no.
Like aqualition all that I understand that to be if we were speaking to him in Droid, that I would be like fair, But we're saying it in English, and then he's it'd be like if we were going back and forth in two different languages, but we're understanding each other.
It's like having a pet, right Like I was just gonna my pet and yeah, but I call it.
Look, here's the thing. R two D two establish this as a thing, and we can get the sense all he's bummed out, you know, or whatever it is. I couldn't possibly Why doesn't anyone tell me anything?
You know?
C three po with this incessant chatter. But Dave always said that R two was a dog and Chopper is a cat, and so your cat is like like, you don't know exactly which nouns and verbs were expressed with that, but you get you get the But I understand what you're saying. But I think we we forgive all that because of what has been established with R two as a dog. That you know, when Benji barks, like, we get that the kid is in the well and needs to be rescued. Now did he actually say that?
No?
Do we respond to Benji?
No?
You know, we don't.
We don't speak dog, but we managed to communicate with feelings conveyed as opposed to.
I like you.
I like you. But C three po is speaking English completely fine, and R two could I know I'm gonna piss some people up, But no, we don't give like I get it with dogs. I have a dog, and I'm like my dog understands everything I'm saying. I person understand what my dog's barking, like, yeah, it's our cat out the window, whatever it was. But I wouldn't give my dog war missions and be like, go do this and this and this and believe that they're going to follow it. Where we tell Chopper I have a whole plan that I don't tell Harah, and I'm like, Chopper, you're going to do this and this. That's not like, oh, like a little bit of communication. We're full on. While I was watching, I was like, what he understands all of this, then just say, okay back to me, JC, we need you.
Yeah, flag on the field. JC.
It's like in Grandma's when Billy has the Maguay. He's not going to speak magway back to him. And since we've been very philosophical this episode, all I'll leave it on this note and then Taylor, you have a rebuttal by all means, and then we can lead into fact check. You know, the thing the old man told Billy, He's like, you know, in order to understand, one only has to listen. And you know, when you really think about that, it's like language. You know it transcends verbal speech because we have asl we have all these So I just think, look, when Gizmo talked to Billy, Billy knew what he was saying and he could say back to Gizmo, Gizmo understood. I think that's just enough. But with that said, I think let's just go to fact check to JC and he can clear everything up and tell us all that we're wrong and we can have off so.
Check.
All right, we give you a lot.
Here we go, buckle up.
So also, to start this out, there was a whole lot of conversation going that I was trying to type notes in for so if I don't cover something, please let's have a conversation back and forth, particularly about the nature of Jedi. But before we get there, at one point, Taylor, you mentioned Grand mov Tarkan's hierarchy in the Empire. Tarkan was the first Grand Moth. Moth is kind of like a governor of a planet or a system. He was the first grand Moth. He saw all the outer Rim territories, and then when he took over the Death Star project from Krenick, which we saw in Rogue one, that kind of made him the de facto third in charge of the empire behind the Emperor and Darth Vader also, and I could be wrong, and this may have been decanonized, but there was in the time of like rebels and a new hope, Darth Vader wasn't like a big public figure. He was kind of like you know that like Cia Operative that maybe people have heard about, But he wasn't like the face of the empire the way that Palpatine was in things. He was kind of a shadow figure for a long time. Now they may have decanonized that, but that was the vibe originally, So that might explain some of kind of like Tarkan's like rise there. He's ambitious, he's working his way up at this point in the timeline.
The lighting and rebels.
You guys talked about the lighting and rebels, and Taylor particularly, you were like, oh my gosh, I remember in season three for it was so dynamic. Part of the reason for that, I believe I've heard Joel Aaron talk about this is when you're starting a show and there's only so much money. You are building the Ezra model, you are building the Lothal terrain and things like that, and then by season two you get another chunk of money, you can make those things better because you're not scratch building everything. And so what I think you see throughout Clone Wars and then again throughout Rebels Rebels is kind of wiping the slate clean. We're only thirteen episodes into the production of this. By the time we hit episode fifty, they've been able to devote so many more financial resources to the lighting and the texturing and all of those sorts of things, which is why you see animation grow season by season. Okay, the Jedi, this is fourteen years approximately, is John said after Order sixty six, And what you have here is a decade plus of rewriting history. And one of the things that somebody brought up at some point is that there's no paper in Star Wars. Right up until the last Jedi, there's no paper. So if there's nothing that is physically written down in Star Wars, history disappears very easily, and things are able to be changed very easily. You can't go to a textbook that was written in you know, zero BC, you know, at the as time begins, and reference it and see how it's been reinterpreted over time. There is no paper, So if the Empire controls everything, the hole in it and everything. You have fourteen years of misinformation, You have fourteen years of saying, yeah, you all thought that Jedi was this, but it wasn't. It was all magic tricks. They weren't real.
It was it was a cult.
It wasn't a thing they were you know, they were putting out things like Ghostbusters, right and Walter Peck like this is a light show. Their ghosts don't actually exist. So the Empire has waged a war against history from the moment they took over, which is why you have all of these people who are who doubt the existence of the Jedi. Think about Han Solo, like Jedi whatever, and Han was alive when the Jedi were going. He was a young young boy, you know. And if you want to contextualize it with you know today, I mean, but like, look at the way people feel about vat scenes today ten fifteen years on. You know, look at the way that people trust in institutions today versus twenty years ago. And when you look at at at things like that Holocaust deniers right where you're like, wow, my god, in nineteen sixty nobody would deny that. But now, thanks to YouTube, and things like that. It grows and spreads.
And so.
Why do people not believe that the Jedi was a thing. Well because for fifteen years, for a generation, they've been told that their memories are wrong, and they start to believe it.
Let's see Jedi versus Sith.
People are continually born who have Metichlorians who have the sensitivity to tap into the force. But you need to be taught how to access the force. There are millions of people throughout the galaxy who have that ability. And as Vanessa touched on, if you don't have somebody who can go in and teach you how to harness that ability, you're not going to be able to lift things with your mind or flypod racers or things like that the way you should. Okay, Taylor's raising his hand.
Question from the back of the class, But then, chicken or the egg? How did the first Jedi without a teacher? Who was that?
Well, it would be somebody, It would be a philosopher, right, it would be somebody like Vanessa mentioned. Akdo Right. Akdo is a relatively new martial art that was developed in the twentieth century. And where did he how did he develop that? How did the person who developed taekwondo or kendo. Right, this is somebody who has or Bruce Lee even who developed his own martial arts system. It's that sort of a thing.
Technically, g Kundo isn't a martial art. It's a philosophy. Just want to make sure because I'm friends of the Lee family, Just want to make sure that's cleared up.
Plays into plays into even more what I'm saying right where philosophically you fall into this mindset and you start to discover physical abilities. As your mind changes, is the way you approach the world changes, you start to discover things. I've read a lot of books on akdo and there are anecdotally you know, he fought in the war and they were saying that he could almost dodge bullets, the founder of a kedo just based on his mindset and the way he saw the world, which again it's anecdotal, and perhaps it's you know, meant to convey a bigger picture and it's not to be taken literally. But you know, the note I made is that somebody who has forced sensitivity is like a giant slab of marble, and you need somebody to come in with a chisel and hammer it out and refine it until you get Michelangelo's David or the Trevy Fountain or.
One of these great works of art. That a jedi is.
So Yeah, of course, there's tons of people who have the ability to use the force, but nobody knows how to do it. The other way you could look at it is like an athlete, right, Like an athlete is born with talent, like Lebron James Kobe Bryant. Kobe Bryant may have been the most talented basketball player, but he also works so hard to refine that talent to come up in big moments, all of those things. And that's what Jedi training is. Jedi training is the practice. Jedi training is learning how to, how to and when to take the jump shot versus drive to the who, versus past to your your teammate. The word jedi, I think there's a definition here, the way that I define jedi. And perhaps it could be wrong, but I believe that jedi is like being knighted, like a night of the round Table. It doesn't mean ability to use the force.
You know, a Jedi is an earned title. Midichlorians.
Controversially, I thought Mediclorians was a cool concept. The reason I thought it was and everybody said, oh, it makes it scientific instead of faith based or whatever. I thought it was cool because all it is saying is the potential to access that energy. Again, like a basketball player, somebody may be born who has significantly more talent on a football field or to hit a baseball than somebody else. That doesn't mean they're going to be the greatest player in that arena. It just means that their potential is higher. And I always thought that that's what midichlorians was is it was something that is in your blood that allows you to rise to that occasion. And everybody has mediclorians, right obi Wan Kenobi talks about it's an energy field life creates, it makes it grow.
That was Yoda. Sorry misquoted obi Wan.
But but everybody has it. But it's your ability to tap into that energy field is your midichlorian count. So I don't think from a certain point of view, it actually changed the nature of the forest in any way. It just gave us an avenue to understand why Obi Wan Kenobi and Luke Skywalker could move things with their mind and Hans so looka not.
Tiya Hi, thanks for taking the question.
So all of that is fascinating, But my question for you is if the title Jedi is bestowed upon someone the same way that being knighted, you know, by his or her majesty, the queen or the king, then does that mean that If to go back to what Vanessa said earlier, if Canaan never made it to twelfth grade, he because in tenth grade his master died, and then and then Ezra is being trained by a Jedi that didn't finish Jedi school, then are either of them legitimate Jedis?
Were they united?
I don't know.
They touch on it in one of the tales from Tales of the Jedi. I think they touch on Canaan's origin. I don't know if you ever took the trials, but if you don't take the trials, you are technically not considered a Jedi. You're a padawan, right, that's the Patawan word. So Ezra would be a Padawan, Ezra would not be a Jedi. Now it gets a little murkhy because there are no Jedi to give Luke Skywalker the Jedi Trials, and so Yoda just kind of invents the trial for Loop, which is Yoda and obi Wan just kind of say, oh, you got to go kill your dad. That's your trial. That's your trial.
Right.
If you pass it, you're a Jedi, which.
Is so kind of manipulative because they're just going out like they don't see Vader the way that Luke sees Vader because it's his dad. And like again Vanessa was saying about Jedi vers Sith, Luke shows up. He betrays his masters, which is what makes Luke so great. The only people in the galaxy who can tell Luke what to do and how to become the thing he yearns to become. He turns his back on them, says I know better, throws his lightsaber away, and faces the consequences because you know, a Jedi shall not know. Love is something that was taught in the Old Republic. But love is what ultimately saves the galaxy. So I think when you're looking at the prequels and what George was saying with the prequels and about the Jedi is that they were misguided, right. Love is the thing that brings it all together.
Love.
Love is the thing that and there's also an interesting conversation to be had here, and I'm talking so much about Anakin's quote unquote love for Padme versus Luke's love for Anakin. In that Anakin didn't you could it could be argued that Anakin did not love Padme. He was obsessed with Padme and that's why he fell to the dark side, versus Luke's love for his father is what brought him back. Speaking about love and luck and Obi Wan again, obi Wan says to Han Solo famous famously, in my experience, there's no such thing as luck. Luck in the galaxy could also be seen as a subconscious ability to manipulate the odds using the force, right, So is Sabine and again we find out later in Ahsoka and Things. Is she just the best shot, the least likely to get hit, the most tactical all of these things, or is subconsciously she tapping into something more like Anakin did when.
He was racing pod pods. He's the only one who can do it right.
So I think that there's an interesting discussion there even further about people who are able to subtly access the force who have not received any training and the way that the galaxy perceives it after indoctrination. After wiping the slate clean, and seeing it as luck when it's really not going into medichlorians even more and are people born with it and how does that all work. Something that they explored really interestingly in Bad Batch and The Mandalorian and even further into Rise of Skywalker is the idea of midichlorians and m count which is what they call it now because people have such a reaction to medichlorians is cloning and the Bad Batch. If you watch Bad Batch and you look at Omega, the whole show is about them trying to access omega Is blood as a clone because they had force abilities, they had a high Medichlorian count, and you're also seeing you see that in The Mandalorian with Grogu and how they're trying to pay a very high price to get access to his blood, which I think will eventually lead to, you know, where they will tie that in and probably in the Mandalorian Grogu movie that's coming out next summer is Snoke as a failed clone of Palpatine and then Palpatine finally in the Rise of Skywalker, them mastering the ability to clone somebody and have that clone have the same Midichlorian count as the person who who they're trying to clone, repeatability in generating in generating.
A Force user.
Essentially, that's speculation, but I think that they've laid a pretty strong roadmap to that.
Have I lost all of you?
No?
Okay, I'm yeah.
I mean Taylor, you were talking about can a Mandalorian be a Jedi. Mandalorian are a group of people. It's a race right up until you hear the line of the Mandalorian. Mandalarian isn't a race, it's a creed. But even if it's a creed, you could still be a Mandalorian Jedi. And I don't think anything in the Mandalorian creed says that you would have to violate the Jedi rules you know, of killing and things like that. The difference between a Jedi and a Sith also is just the pathways they use to harness the energy of the force. Right. Anger, fear, aggression, hate are powerful emotions in sports, in anything you do. But if you go down that path, you lose. You don't have a clear head and you make decisions that you otherwise wouldn't make. The Jedi path is one of surround nity and peace to access the same things. You know, it's perspective all right through that. The origins of the probe droid voice, which John touched on at the very beginning of the episode, that came from a shortwave recording of a Ham radio that belonged to Ben Bert's grandfather. Ben Bert's quote on it was I mixed it with some outtakes of weird transmission noises I'd created for the warning signal that beckons the spaceship Nostromo to a ghostly planet in the movie Alien, which also, if you look at the ghost is very Nostromo like in design in Star Wars Rebels, so it all ties together right there. He also mixed in the voice of a well known Shakespearean actor who he's never revealed, and transformed that electronically. I'm going to go a little bit into Ezra and the Lothcat because I thought this was super cool in nineteen ninety four. I've talked about a lot the Jedi Academy Trilogy books by Kevin J.
Anderson.
In those books, they establish a different Jedi, have different sensitivities to different parts of the Force, and I think it's really cool that they repeatedly show Ezra in tune with animals, with the loft cats, with the Pergols, and with the and I'm spacing on the name the non Minox who we talked about earlier fur Knox as well.
I think it's really cool.
As Ahsoka says in Star Wars Rebels, there's always a bit of truth in Legends, and I think it's cool that they're bringing in some of those concepts that were developed in Legends into the show as early as the first season. Defending Tia now, because I feel like I've always I'm always taking Taylor's side on things like jet packs and lightsabers to defend Tia. The ipiece doesn't flip to the back of the helmet. That is a ninety degree thing, so it's up or it's down.
Keep it out, I have to see.
And also not all Mando Mandalorian helmets have it right. The Mando the dinger and helmet does not have the eyepiece that comes down, So that's an.
Yeah.
And I believe it's something it's like targeting, you know, it's like, you know, helps her see zone in on those things.
Shopper.
There's a big debate about Chopper here and why doesn't Chopper just speak English? And why doesn't R two just speak English? This is a use case. Chopper isn't designed as a robot to do the things he's being asked to do. R two D two is not designed to do the things he's being asked to do. They are droids that are there's, they're mechanics, They're meant to help the ship go to hyperspace. They're not meant to do all of these things. And again, in old legend, which I'll continue to bring up because I love it, the idea was that R two D two and C three po never had their memories erased, and the longer a robot goes without having its memory erased, the more human and the more abilities it will have. And so R two D two, who has never had its memory erase from the time it was by a New Hope and Return of the Jedi, has become more human than say just an R five unit that randomly gets plugged into an X wing and has its memory erase constantly. I think that's also the case with Chopper, is that Harah has had Chopper for a long time. Hara values Chopper's companionship. Chopper has a specter number is obviously part of the family is obviously part of the crew. So the argument I don't think is why doesn't Chopper speak English? The argument would be, why doesn't Harra just install a voice box on it so that Chopper speaks English? But as you guys said, you guys all understand Chopper anyway, So why spend the time and resources to install another add on to Chopper when Harrah's communicates with Chopper perfectly fine as is.
It's a down economy, so you know you can't.
Yeah, I guess. I'm like, how does how do we understand him?
But you just do well? And maybe people maybe it's also a stone how about that?
Well, that's how language works in the first place, right, how did you start understanding English?
Yeah? But that's what I'm saying, Like, didn't I like, on the Thal I was speaking with Freids. I don't know.
But what jac just said, it's it was like the reverse of what obi Wan said about Vader. It's like, well, they're more men now in the machine. What you say there you go?
Yeah, but others may not. Others may not understand Chopper, And maybe Harah doesn't want him to speak English because pressure situations, we are the only ones that will understand him.
That's it' That's like when Kobe spoke Spanish the Palcasol, so nobody knew what play they were running, so there we go.
And Ricky Rubio, well it didn't matter anyway.
So I mean, I think.
Taylor's question is like, he hasn't been part of the crew for that long, and how does he understand choppers want Want want, like as easily as you do?
Or Canaan does.
That sounds like a question for Pablo Hidelgo. That sounds like a comic book spinof.
You know, Bide the Way JC M v P.
Yeah, well done good.
I just spin that out as fast as I could.
It was most impressive as it.
But we always feel much smarter, jac once we get to this part of the show. So it's like, oh, like we get the payoff, we get the little education here, and it's just it's always a fun conversation. Today's especially was a very fun conversation. And who knows maybe that that spinofful show that all this time as it was on Rosetta Stone in his room when nobody was looking, and that's how he learned everything. We never know and Jason can fact check that Thank you as always everybody. Thank you for everybody listening. Rate subscribe Potter Rebellion Podcast at gmail dot com. Write to us. That's your question, sen's your fan art. As you can see like, we love to answer your questions. We love to showcase your artwork on the Instagram and follow us on Instagram at Potter Rebellion. But until then, next week we're gonna go over Season one episode fourteen, Rebel Resolved, the penultimate episode of season one of Star Wars Rebels. But until then, I'm gonna channel Hair and go Taylor, get us out of here here.
The music.
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