It’s time to talk to Boy Meets World’s most famous background actor!
Before he was Kumar, before he became a doctor on “House” and before he met your mother, Kal Penn found his way onto our favorite ‘90s sitcom - even though you probably never knew it.
Kal joins the gang to share his memories from the Season 4 episode, “Quiz Show,” and talk about his time as an extra breaking into Hollywood (he even walked around another TGIF classic).
From White Castle to the White House, this week the gang talks to one of the most inspirational guests yet. And also, does Barack Obama know what Boy Meets World is?
Danielle cancer update, my favorite.
Stop talking about it, Danielle.
We're done with it.
No, I just wanted to give everyone an update because I've kept you guys all abreast. I've kept you all abreast of what's been going on with my breast cancer diagnosis and treatment. I am officially done with radiation, which means I am officially done with what is considered active cancer treatment. Surgeries, chemo, which I did not need to have, and radiation are all considered active cancer treatments, and so I'm done. I don't have to have any more of those. I now will just start to moxifen eventually. My doctors wanted me to wait until my body had physically healed from the damage that radiation does before they put me onto moxiphin because tomxifin I will have some side effects from and they didn't want to overload me with negative side effects.
So radiation was.
Actual time there relatively easy. You don't really do anything, you just lay there. It's really short, it's super fast. I did fifteen rounds of whole breast radiation and then five rounds of targeted radiation, which just means they focus in on the very small area where my cancer was versus treating the entire breast. It will help significantly lower my chances of recurrence, which is always good news.
But boy, I am feeling.
The effects I am physically. I have a very bad sunburn. I also have a rash on top of the sunburn, which is just great. So it's very itchy. And also you can't itch it because if you even come close to touching it you want to cry. So yeah, hurts to wear a bra, hurts to not wear a bra. It's just hurts to sleep on my side, hurts to sleep period, hurts to be awake. It's just yeah, it hurts to live right now. But you know what, it's not gonna last forever.
Physically.
Every day now, I'm supposed to be getting better, fatigue wise, I am really very stinking tired. And I had a doctor's appointment yesterday. I had a follow up so they could see how I'm healing. And I asked, I'm just not used to feeling this tired. I'm so so fatigued, and they said, oh, yeah, well, you know it's a cumulative effect, so you're only right now starting to feel the effects of your first radio And I said, so how much longer am I going to feel like this? And they're like, you'll feel better in two to three months. I'm sorry, what I'm going to feel this tired for two to three months and.
Then get this.
They told me that if I want to feel better faster, I need to work out and drink water those faster. I'm sorry, you want me to be tired and take care of myself.
But just unbelievable.
So I guess I'll try to drink more than twelve ounces of water today, which is my normal intakeout.
That is that is not good?
Yeah, but I did start working out. I worked out yesterday.
I'm going to work out again on Friday, because he said all the working out and drinking water helps my body get rid of all the damage that the radiation did.
So anyway, I'm.
Have you found the best or me?
App No? Is that is that the calisenics thing you do?
The calisthenics thing I do every day and Susan and I do it together and it's like fifteen it starts. It's like fifteen minutes a day, Okay, super easy. You don't need anything, there's no weights, there's no anything. You just they do like a twenty eight day program. Today is my last day of doing it, and it's super super simple.
So not an ad Are you saying that for twenty eight days I could do to calisthenics and then I'll and then that's it.
That's it is just twenty eight days.
That's it.
You're good.
Well, that's this one regiment. It's not You're not going to be miss universe in twenty eight days. But then I don't want a good exercise.
It gets me to miss universe in twenty eight days.
Some random kind of drugs I would imagine.
Yeah, you're right.
Yeah.
The drinking water thing is key. Yeah, And it's also I so I heard we will beep. But I about a month ago just heard my wife in the kitchen say to herself, okay, in like just this voice, maybe try drinking some more water, you stupid.
And I walked in, like who are you talking to? And she's like, oh, that was for me, And I was like, can we not talk to my wife like that? That's that's really really under on her behalf.
Yes, but she does the same thing where she's like and then what she'll remember to do it at nine thirty when what happens, and then she has to peet nine times in the night.
It's you got to see.
Those water bottles that like track how much you're supposed to drink, like when you're moving drink.
Yes, yes, I actually I own one of those. Do I use it?
Of course not, but yeah I don't. I'm not thirsty ever all day until right before I get into bed, and then suddenly I'm very parched. I have to drink thirty six ounces of water immediately.
And it tastes incredible good. Why does a water taste like that at noon?
At no at nine thirty ten o'clock at night, you're in bed, all tucked and warm. It is the greatest tasting thing in the world, is chugging water.
And it's like, well them, I'm up in an hour. That was stupid.
I know.
Sometimes when alth there wakes me up to pe in the middle of the night, I'm really happy because I'm like, I also needed to go and I was.
Gonna be too lazy to get out of bed.
But now that I'm here helping you, I'll just And for those wondering why I have to help my five year old p it' said he doesn't have a doesn't have a bathroom in his room, and so he and it's very dark and lonely in the house with a mommy helping you to the bathroom.
Can I make a suggestion, just so he knows what he does to you at night? I say, tonight you wake up to pee, start yelling his name.
Put the monitor in his room.
So he has to come and help you go to the bathroom. And then at the end, just be like, see this is what it's like.
Do you like it? He'd probably love it. He'd be thrilled.
Yeah, and he'd be awake exactly. This is why I'm not a parent, one of the many reasons. Just put it on the list.
Welcome to Pond Meets World.
I'm Danielle Fischel, I'm right or Strong, and I'm Wilfordell.
During our rewatch, we have had a lot of fun pointing out some of our favorite Boy Meets World background actors, from Dusty Tasie Me to the guy we can't find who looks like writer. Some of our fondest memories have been reminiscing about the fun times we had with actors and actresses you may not have known by name, but were around all the time. Actually, one of the most fun episodes of this podcast was when we got to reunite with and talked to a handful of these talented people and heard all about taping Boy Meets World from a totally different perspective. So imagine our surprise when we found out thirty years later that one of our background actors in the season four ROMP Quiz Show would go on to become one of Hollywood's most beloved TV and movie stars. Well, at first we didn't believe it. Then we recapped the episode and yep, there he was front and center. We were looking at a very young Cal Pen. You know, Cal from an unlimited number of bursting into mainstream success in two thousand and four as Kumar in the Harold and Kumar franchise, then appearing on shows like House, How I'm at Your Mother and the Santa Clauses, with movies like Smile and Van Wilder. He'd take a two year sabbatical from acting in two thousand and nine to serve in the Obama administration as an Associate director of the White House Office of Public Engagement. That's about the same time I was gift wrapping at a Bloomingdale's for Fun and hosting a clip show on the Style Network.
So we've had similar journeys. This week, we are.
Honored to talk to the most successful background actor in boy Meets World history, someone whose resume we will now take all the credit for. Welcome to Pod Meets World, our co star Cal Penn Good. Oh my gosh, I am so excited. I'm so excited that we've made this happen.
Oh my, thank you, Thank you for having me.
Oh my gosh, thank you for being here.
I can only imagine that over the years, your door has practically been kicked in by people asking you about your time on Boyme's World. So the fact that you waited to talk about it to be with us really means a lot.
You know, people do ask about it a lot, which applies to be And so when I when I saw this email, and I know we have mutual friends that sort of connected us, I was like, yes, absolutely love to come on this podcast. It's like, obviously it was an eternity ago, and it was like right when I had moved to La but I had such a great time that this was like very exciting.
Okay, well, I want to get to all of all of that, and I'm really happy to hear that you had such a good time. But before we do talk about that, where you moved to LA.
How old were you? You were you lived and you were born in New Jersey.
Yeah, I was born in New Jersey. I got into UCLA at their theater and Film school, and so I moved at eighteen. I graduated high school and moved across the country. It was one of those classically didn't know anybody in entertainment or in ol and I sort of thought, like I wanted to do more film and TV. I had some somewhat of a theater background. I went to a performing arts high school outside of New York City, and so I just like I moved to LA and u c l A is a great program, but it's very theater focused, which I didn't realize. What most students would do is they would kind of either audition outside of the classroom or they would work. Like there were a lot of obviously working actors. It was. It was LA, So people would be in school and then just go off and shoot commercials and stuff. And I'm like, I don't know how to do any of this. I do, and so that was that was just being a team and being out in La Also, I had not a car for like the first three years, like.
Walking the three blocks of Westwood and that's it.
And it was like you could get like I remember trying to go to I got some internship my sophomore year in Burbank at I think it was Lucasfilm, so like really love it. Yeah, And it took me two hours on the bus from Westwood to Burbank. And on the third day I was like, yeah, I can't do this. I'm not there's no time to study. It's like it's dark when you go home.
Right.
I didn't a laptop. It's not like I could like do papers on the Boss or something.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah. Anyway, those are the days.
You just ate a lot of Dede Reese cookies. That's what you had for dinner most nights.
Yeah, Ady rees whatever. That sandwich shop that's probably four dollars now that used to be a book fifty Oh man.
I'm okay.
So we want to talk about your experiences on the show, but I do also first want to give a shout out to a Twitter user I refuse to call it X at work with TJ who somehow spotted you because a few years ago this was exposed on Twitter that you were a background actor on Boy Meets World and we had absolutely no idea. Now, did anyone do you keep in touch with anyone from the show?
Did you meet anybody? Did anybody like?
None of us knew that you were ever on the show, which is amazing.
So I was an extra a few times, okay, And I think that's the only one that's like noticeable. I didn't know. I didn't keep in touch with anyone. I was at UCLA at the time. I would do this on my on my days off, mostly because I had never been on a real set before, and so everybody who I had talked to, and I had plenty of friends who were working actors, are like, look, just so you know, background work doesn't lead to speaking work. Usually they're separate. So as long as you know that that's the reality and you're not chasing that path to think that you can get a speaking role, it's a great way to learn of the TV works and all of that. So I started doing it, and you know, there are like I love what we do for a living, and like entertainment is full of strong personalities. So depending on which show you went to, it was either like nightmare, I can see why people a real issue with doing this type of work. And then you'd also just have so much respect for people who are professional background artists. And I had a little drama teacher who used to tell us that that you know, you'll see when you start working there are people who have made their entire livelihood out of being background actors, and it's incredible, and that their dedication and they know all the rules and their union members and the whole thing. So I've met a lot of folks like that, and then obviously met idiots like me who were like, I don't know, let me.
See what I can do, right, Well, how did you how do you even get jobs?
Are they? Were they listed in the back of magazines? Or like, how do I don't even know how you started that?
There were there were two companies. There were sort of sister companies. One was literally called Central Casting if you were in the Union, and then that was the background acting agency that I think almost every TV show and movie used. And then if you were non union, there was a company called Senex Casting. Both were based in Burbank. I think they were in the same building, and you basically went again taking the bus to Burbank. You go to Burbank and you you like, pay twenty bucks. It's the it's the only time that it's okay to ever get it give an agent money when you haven't made anything right, right, uh, And they list you in this database and then this was you know, this is pre uh not pre Internet, but pre like functional Internet. And there's a number every day that was updated so many times, and you would call in and if you fit any of the listings, you would like press another number and it would connect you to the agent who was booking the background.
It's like jury duty, totally.
Very similar. And they would have your picture right so they could pull it up and tell you if they thought you were the right look or not. And if you were, then they would either I guess they would email you or tell you exactly where you needed to go on which date. And uh so I don't so no, I didn't keep in touch, you know, with it. There's always a line to write where you I mean, I guess I know both sides of this now, but like you, you kind of like leave the crew alone so they can work, especially if you're a background artist, your job doesn't really kick until later, and then you don't want to bother any of the any of the actors who have speaking roles because they're also prepping for stuff. But I will say we did all interact several times.
Great, please tell us the story.
We're just great with the background artists. And I think part of that was, like, you know, I'm not even gonna I've done other I had done other shows, and I was an extra on other shows, and I was I was about to say, I think it's probably maybe because we were all roughly the same age that you guys were so nice, But I don't think that's the case because I had done other shows. But that definitely was not the case.
You know, what other shows have you worked? I can't believe this. I cannot believe. This is just the cool, just the coolest thing to me.
Ever, what other what other shows have you And first of all, I need to know also Boy Meets World, what other episodes of Boy Meets World were you.
And we see very featured.
I honestly don't remember quiz shows that I actually was like visit on on screen. There were probably two others. Okay, I also did let's see Clueless, Remember the Clueless TV show?
Of course, Yeah, so they.
Were also super nice, except the the hours were crazy on that show. That was like, they would keep you for eighteen and a half.
Hours, Oh because a single.
Camera something absurd like that. You're like, I feel like this is not.
Legal.
Also, I kind of like, you know, I would never get to see eighteen hours of production up close at you know, you know, when I'm trying to trying to break into this industry. So I thought it was I thought it was super interesting, but but it was I remember remember Clueless being very cold and they didn't feed you.
Oh my gosh, long day's cold and you don't get to eat It sounds on my nightmare.
What else I did? Actually I did. I did a few episodes of Sabrina the Teenage Witch. The caw was really nice, the producers were awful, and I remember very clearly, and I feel comfortable saying that because I had I had a speaking gig on that show. Unrelated, actually there was a Yeah, I'd done a bunch of background work on Sabrina the Teenage Witch. And then it must have been two years later when I finally got an agent who by the way, you guys probably know her, do you know Barbara Cameron? Of course, she was my first agent.
That's unbelievable. Candice Cameron's mom.
Yes, okay, okay, sweetest woman. Like she literally the only agent in three and a half years of submitting my headshot every single week, the only person who called. And I remember walking into her office. Her office was like in the back of her house.
Yeah, okay, in West.
Hills, And I had borrowed a car from somebody in my dorm and I drove out there and I'm looking at the address on like the Thomas Guide print tip map that I have for my compier, and I'm looking at this house and I was like, this is poor. This is what this is, This is not this is there's no.
Way this is a real agent.
Like this is I'm gonna be taken away by the circus. This is what's gonna happen.
There's something. And then I go in and it's all pictures of Kirkan Candice and full house and growing off and I was like, okay, this is the opposite of porn, right what And then I'm like wait, wait Cameron, Oh no way, that's so cool. Right, and then she was very sweet and anyway, so she you know, this was then two years after I'd done background work on on Sabrina. She called and she said, you have this great audition for you. And there was a thing in the breakdown that said, please make sure that that none of the actors you're submitting have ever done background work. So I lied to her and I said, no, of course I've never done anything.
That's okay, that's okay, just you know, you want the job.
It's like, how about these I lied about playing basketball so that I could get my SAG card in a Nike commercial, like you kind of do what yea?
My special skills still say, horseback riding. So yeah, never been Yeah.
To the stay, I was like, I mean, if I have a month to learn anything, I can just figure it out. Yeah. So I got the speaking role in Sabrina. They were they were kind of awful even to kind of the the actors that have the underfund.
No, why do you.
Think they didn't want someone who had ever done.
Background work because you would have been another student in the background or whatever.
Yeah, yeah, I think it's literally for the like a lot, I mean your show as well. There were these super fans, right who would yeah, who was in each scene or yeah yeah, and they would probably look I mean, you know, there's endless choice of people who are like eighteen to twenty four to play these roles. So all you have to do is say, hey, if you've been in the background of this show, you can't be in this particular scene. Yeah.
I'm just trying. I'm just trying to imagine.
Like on our show, Dusty was featured in the background multiple times, and then they would say, hey, Dusty, go ahead and say this line here or there, But like, why.
Why are the didn't work out?
It's also it's with Sabrina the teenage, which you're dealing with a young witch from Salem, So they don't want to take you out.
Of the reality, right true.
To see a background actor. They want to keep it real, so they want.
To make sure people don't speak.
But all of it just to say the contrast from from then, you know, being on Boy Meets World was like night and day. Was just such a joy to come in and you guys were so nice to everybody. The crew was wonderful. I can't remember who must have been one of the ads or PA's was in charge of all the background folks, and they were great, like.
It was.
Time.
I don't I honestly don't remember that the name sounds familiar.
Okay, that's so great.
Okay, So did you tell like, did you tell anybody at U c l A. That you were doing work on Boy Meets World? Did anybody even know what Boy Meets World was?
Yeah, it was a big deal. This would have been what I think I was on. You guys would know the dates better than me, but like ninety seven.
Maybe, yeah, question was ninety seven?
I think, yeah, So yeah they knew. I think what By the time I had done Boy Means World, I'd done other background stints, and you know, you never you never see the shot that you're like supposedly in. So there were probably five other times I would say to like guys in my dorm, like, so tonight I'm gonna be on this and nothing obviously no, So I don't think I told anybody until after it aired, and then you know, I had obviously taped it on VHS and was like, okay, look.
Were you telling your family back in Jersey too?
I did, yeah, yeah, yeah, I did tell them, And I remember my mom was very excited and told a bunch of her friends. If I'm remembering this right, they watched the rerun because the like, I didn't have the clout or the confidence to know that I would necessarily be right in the like the first.
Run, so you waited to like watch it yourself, and then you saw yourself and you were like, now I'll let them know.
And a couple of years after this, this, this is, this is sort of why I was like scarred. H yeah, this would have been right after boy me I got my first speaking role, which was one line on the Steve Harvey Show that he had also playing a nerd.
By the way, really, yes, okay, you were you were being.
Come on, that's fine. But also the very mid nineties nerd where it's like.
Of course.
Right, and that I remember, I knew I was in the scene, told everybody had to watch party in my dorm and they cut the line, told me they were going to cut the line, so it airs, and obviously all my friends then leave and.
My parents are like, why would you like it? I'm sorry they knew before because they were on the East coast, so and.
I cancel the party.
Count I definitely would have canceled it if if if my parents have had up and then Barbara. I remember calling Barbara and she just picked up and was like, I'm sorry, honey, they didn't tell me in advance. I just it's all right. But so it's it also makes sense why it wasn't until later that I was able to a show friends that I was in boy Mets World, and then, you know, years later, I was just surprised that people found it because I look so different.
I think, so funny.
Do you remember? Okay, so shooting Quiz Show, which is the episode we mentioned you're pretty heavily featured in, were you in?
Was that audience? So it's quite a romp. It's a show within a show. Was the audience that you were sitting in? Where was that on set? Relative to where we were shooting the quiz the quiz show set?
So if I remember this right, it was in your actual studio audience, Okay, on tape night, so they needed the space to like shoot that stuff. So yeah, we pre taped that entire scene, so you.
Were clapping and cheering towards something where the set you were it was not even happening in front of you.
Yeah.
Yeah, that tracks that totally tracked.
Yeah, because I don't.
Remember it at all.
Right, really good acting, man, Because yeah, I didn't remember until we watched the episode that I go up there too.
Eric's like in the stands and watching the show as well. I had no memory of that at all.
So yeah, it's so funny. Okay, So I want to know.
You said that you got to interact with us and we were all just hanging out. Do you have any specific story do you do you have any memories about us hanging out talking?
What did we talk about?
I don't remember what we talked about, but I remember very clearly that it seemed like you guys all really a loved this job. Also got along in real life, Yeah, which felt really good as a as an aspiring actor, because I'm like, Okay, these people are my peers. They really do love what they do, and so all of the struggle of like, Okay, you've go on these auditions, you work odd jobs even when you're in school, you save up your gas money, all of that, you're like and then this is like, there are good people who really like what they do and get to make fun things that families can watch together. I just you know, I mean, I have the language to describe it now, but I just remember that it's the feeling that I had. This is really this is really nice and really cool. And I think you guys knew so at the time. She's still a very close friend genevan Oye.
Yes, yeah, my ex girlfriend.
Oh yeah, that's right, that's right. Yeah, yeah, that's right. So she she and I met my freshman year of college because her roommate was at UCLA with me, and he and I were good friends, and so I had already had this, like heard this great reputation about you guys, because she was like, Oh, they're so great, You're gonna have such a great time. I'm glad you're you know, I'm glad you're doing that that show. And so that was also really nice that that held up, because you know a lot of times that there's a somebody professionally is maybe different than there personally, and you know, kind of is what it is. But that wasn't the case. Everything was was that makes me.
That makes me so happy. I know too, it makes me so I was waiting for the like, well, no one would talk to me.
I mean, look, everybody has bad days. I happened to not be there for your bad days exactly.
You were just there for the few good ones we had, which is nice.
No, I've actually been really pleasantly surprised unless we just have handpicked really great uh background actors who only say nice things about us. We've interviewed quite a few background actors, and for the most part, they have the same story that like, when we were around each other, we were laughing and we were joking, and we were having casual conversation. It seemed like we loved what we did. We were getting along like that. That's nice because that's are certainly our memory.
It's true, though, like I'll give you, I'll give you a contrast. So probably also around that time, or maybe it was after I graduated, I had like two lines on R And that's another show actually that I had done. Had I done the background work? No, maybe I had, but I had two lines on the YAR. Obviously I was very excited. I was playing like a young I must have been a young medical student or something.
But not a nerd.
Not a nerd, not a nerd.
Graduated out of nerdom.
Yeah, and I remember I was supposed to stitch up Eric Lesala's character had a son who like hit his head or something, and so I just had to give him stitches. And I had two lines and the I was very excited, you know, love dr I thought it was great, wonderful opportunity. And I show up in the director that day. I didn't know if he was having a bad day or not, but it was kind of irrelevant. He just immediately, like his directing style is to yell at you. We did the first thing. And he's like, who taught you how to Who taught you how to stitch? And I'm like, I don't know what I'm supposed to say, because I'm obviously not a doctor, and I years ago and I just assumed there would be a consultant who would show.
Me how to do this stitching.
Would have been happy to meet with the consultant before medical stitch, right like, you know. So he just started and then apparently my elbow in one take was blocking the kid's face and it was just sort of a head on shot and I just hear.
Hey, you.
Move your elbow. You hello, Hello, I'm talking to you. Move your elbow. So I moved my elbow and he goes, yeah, you know, people are watching the show for the kid not to see you, and I was, God, why do you need to talk to somebody that way? Right? Not helpful to the process, like don't don't understand what he actually wants from me. And so by contrast, I just have to say when when people are probably telling you guys that you were so nice to background actors and to under fives, there's a reason for that that some of the other experiences, whether it was something on Sabri and The Teenage Witch or you Are, other beloved shows were the cast was always wonderful, but I had these people in leadership positions who were just awful because they could be or you know, I don't have reasons, I stressed out or whatever. Contrast, man, really like you really saw that when you came to a show like Boy Meet's World, it was a really wonderful wow.
Great.
So wait, I'm sorry to jump way back, but you said you're from New Jersey. So were you going into New York for auditions as a kid, like going to for commercials and stuff like that.
I mean no, my parents wouldn't let me. I had to wait. This is one of the reasons I think I chose U c l A over over n y U. I was debating between the tiss the dramas pool here, yeah, in New York, and I was like, you know, I think I just want to see what like exposure to film and TV fully is like. So, no, I I went to a performing arts high school. It's still one of the few publicly funded arts high schools in the country, and so that was obviously a big, a big privilege because my parents are immigrants. My dad's an engineer, my mom has our masters in chemistry. So no like career arts background, right, so very scary for any parent who doesn't have an arts background to be like, yeah, you should do this, go for it. So I think if it weren't for that publicly funded arts program, I maybe wouldn't have had even just the tool kid or the know how to be like, oh, there's a BFA program here, or there's a program at U c l A and USC and I can I can apply for it and maybe I'm maybe I'm good enough to get in. I don't know, you know, But so that was the that was kind of the the pre college stuff.
Man. Yeah, so you did you came out to l A cold. I mean when you need cold. It was like you didn't even have the audio behind you.
I mean to LA without a car.
And at U c l A. There's a parking lottery that's really really hard to get, and so I read about how hard it was to get a spot in the parking lottery, and the end of my freshman year, I entered the parking lottery without a car because I sort of reasoned, like, if it's this hard to get a parking pass, then I'll start entering the parking lottery now. That way, by the time I'm able to afford a car parking pass, which obviously is not how statistics actually work, live for this parking lottery, and I get a parking Yes, I didn't have a car. So when I when I mentioned earlier that like I borrowed a car from somebody, a buddy of mine on my dorm floor, and I made an arrangement where I would pay for parking for the year and he would let me use his car whenever he didn't need it. So smart, he's very smart.
It did.
I still couldn't do internships because he needed his car more than you know, more than that schedule. But for the rare audition or for going to go and to an extra gig it came in.
Really, so did you then did you have to quit the job at Lucas Arts to Oh.
Yeah, just because I couldn't get there and there was no because it would have been what a four and a half hour round trip. Basically, Oh my gosh, the bus didn't make sense. You know. It's honestly, it's one of those things. As I got older and was and obviously then moved from being a struggling actor to a working actor and then having you know, very blessed to have the privilege that I have now, it really underscores you know, fine, I was an aspiring actor. I elected to do that, But what about people who are working two or three jobs because they got they got to put food on the table. It really was like, you know, okay, I'm just a college kid who like wants a film internship. But it really underscored for me, like, oh, not to make this about like infrastructure. It was like, oh, we should invested in buses and public.
Trans yes, oh, the public transport in la is awful.
I mean for everybody out there listening, Uh, you know, that trip in a car with minimal traffic is what thirty five minutes? Yeah, that two hour, two and a half hour bus ride is thirty five minutes. So I mean that shows what it's like.
It's yeah, it's crazy.
Yeah wow, So that was that was also my first realization of like, oh yeah, I can't I can't walk to my lucasfilm internship.
Yeah.
Okay.
So when you graduate from doing background work and you get your first kind of big TV speaking job, is that Buffy the Vampire Slayer in nineteen ninety nine.
I would that's would have I mean it would have been it would have been the Steve Harvey Show.
But they come, okay, but they got your life right exactly.
But yeah it was. It was Buffy.
Okay? And what did you play on Buffy?
So on an episode of Buffy called Beer Bad? I played cave Man And I'm gonna say two things about this one. I'll just elephant in the room for any like hardcore Buffy fans. That episode I think is still consistently rated as the worst episode of Layer really, especially for super fans, like that was the worst thing I've ever seen.
What's the episode about. It's called beer Bad, call Beer Bad.
It's about these four prap boys who turn into cavemen when they drink beer that's been tainted with this save man potion.
Yeah, that sounds amazing to know what are they talking about?
I think this sounds great.
You know what's crazy about about things like that is like, yes, okay, looking back on it, it was kitschy and it was whatever a really fun. In order to be transformed into a caveman. They did a live cast of our Heads. Oh cool show up at like they shot that show in Santa Monica is actually way closer to UCLA than any of the other stuff. And I remember our call time was like three in the morning because they had five hours of putting the prosthetic face on you.
Oh my gosh.
Those faces had like little they would call them them air bladders where they would they would pump air in to make it. Yeah, we're transforming and just all this crazy, these crazy special effects. So you you had these super long days. They were paying all sorts of crazy penalties, which as a as a young actor just getting started, I was like, great, and actually, people, you can't feed me because I have this thing on and it was awesome. And then the director was so cool. He did this you know, we we only had speaking, uh like English speaking verbal lines when we were the frat boys. As we turned into the cavement, it was all grunting, right of course.
Well because it's a documentary and they didn't watch this.
Yeah, the director sent all four of us, I think you brought us in actually for a rehearsal and gave us each DVD of this movie called Ring of Fire has no noques quester fire Quester for fire.
Yes, I love this movie.
It is bonker.
Oh no, I show this.
Movie to my screenwriting students, like the first class.
Because there's not a word of dialogue and yet you you get the entire story and it's caveman, it's amazing.
It's it's it's not good, but it's it's crazy.
He gave us that film and he said, this is what you need to communicate when you're I want to be able to understand everything you guys are saying. You had these rehearsals and just with this, this grunting for like a started. It was awesome.
I really loved so wait I have to I have to know it was the dialogue written out in English and then you have to grunt to make like this is what we intend for you to say in grunting or are you just making it up as you go along.
I honestly don't remember it, but I would imagine that it was written right. Yeah. Yeah, least at least it was certainly written in description, because it was a little right like there's this scene where we discover a lighter and we're amazed that a lighter can create fire because here we are needing to preserve fire.
Of course.
It must have been Yeah, it must have been written out in something.
Oh man. So after Buffy, it looks, at least on IMDb like pretty much after that you were kind of off to the races you did, Spin City, angel Er, NYPD Blue. By the way, all shows that have a lot of background actors, have you always then in every project you've gone on to, have you always made a point of then being extra kind and considerate to the background actors because you know what it's like?
Yeah, I think so, But I think it also sort of predates that. And I'm gonna like, I'll throw some more flowers your way with this, but I feel like it's I don't know very many people who have to be told to be kind to somebody right. We either under like that's either your worldview joy and empathy and you love what you do, or it's not who you are. And if it's not who you are, I understand, then you have to be told something. But that's not gonna result in you being kind. It's just gonna result in you not being.
A dick, right, right, Yes, nice and kind are two different things.
Yeah, so I am privileged with you know, just my worldview has tended to just be relatively joyous whenever I can, so it has. It has irked me when I've been on projects where people are not treated respectfully. I think one of the nice things about them being in a leadership position, whether whether it's your first couple of leads or whether you're like finally producing things, is you get to set the tone of wanting to you know, certain shows or run certain ways. So so that was also really nice about I mean, most of the projects that you mentioned, or I've had nothing but great experiences on people were always really kind. I know that's not everybody's experience with all these shows, but that that was mine and that's all I can really be to firsthand.
Right, So, maybe you were on some of the best shows ever, I mean and my people. Everything was just named there is like banger after banger.
Yeah, and they were all relatively small parts. Right the Spin City, it was like I think I was playing there was a flashback with Charlie Sheen's character, and I was his. I was his rap boy doing like a like a keg stand or something here. By the ways, I basically either played a nerder or frap boys and fratuys.
That's so great.
That's the range that you want to have when you're I mean honestly quite inspiring. So then in two thousand and four, Harold and Kumar comes out the first Harold and Kumar, and you go from this consistently working character actor to one of the most recognizable actors.
Of the mid aughts. Was this the dream you had always wanted? Or after it happened, did you go hmm?
I kind of enjoyed being a successful journey man, but having a little bit of anonymity, I think to jump it's such.
A good question. I don't think I've been asked in that way. I mean, y'all are actors, so you you get it. The I appreciate that those were journey minerals. They were mostly just paying five hundred of the seven and fifty that I needed for rent every month. So I still threw all those those those parts. I still was. I was a runner, I was a production assistant. I was working sort of random, random jobs and was very happy to very happy to do those those jobs to like save up for rent and audition money and stuff. But for me, the bridge between those two was a movie I did called Van Wilder with and That's think that was the first supporting lead that I had in a in a movie. And were it not for that movie, I don't think I would have gotten the job. And Harold Kamar go to WAKEMP and Harold and Kumar everybody always forgets. When that movie came out, it it totally tanked at the box office. Nobody saw it in a lot of places. I think it got pulled early from that initial like two week exhibit or commitment because nobody was going to see this thing and it was a real I mean to say it was a bummer is a very light way of saying.
Like, yeah, art breaking, because devastating, Yeah, totally devastating.
I mean for John Choe and I, he had worked certainly a lot more consistently than I had. And he's a couple of years older, so he had he had more credits, but you know, he was an American pie and he had a yeah on Off Center, that sitcom on the WB And we both read the script. We didn't know each other before doing the movie, but we read the script and you know, I was just like, Wow, this is so funny. It's the funniest script I've read in such a long time, probably ever. And you know, in those days that we're talking to, early two thousands, so if you if you didn't fit into sort of like if you weren't white or black friends, people didn't really know if they could cast you. There was something you know, today we wouldn't even call it creative thinking, but back in the day, it's like, oh, you're taking a risk.
By how risky of you?
Yeah, out of the box, out of.
The box casting. So when the script came along, I just remember being like, whoa, I get to just play the irresponsible but smart stoner wants to go get character.
Yeah.
So so we had a lot writing on it, and then and then when nobody came to see the movie, a couple of things. It was, I know, your classic like Okay, if your movie tanks, you're not really getting calls for auditions or anything like that. And then there was this added thing of like there were a couple of people who are like, yeah, say we told you Asian American men just can't open And so then you start questioning like is that I feel like that's wrong. I feel like my life experience is like he was a fan of movies who also like just happens to be brown and from New Jersey. It's like I feel like everybody I know loves movies to laugh, right, So so for about four months, I feel like nothing happened. It was just this really down and the dumb time. And then the movie ends up on HBO and coming out on DVD with no marketing budget and no press, and fans just found it on their own. Yeah, and when I found it on their own, like I'm not just talking about like so all the you know, the sort of the haters in town who are like, oh, these guys could never open a movie. It was people sure La New York, San Francisco, and then Oklahoma and Alabama and Iowa and places that would never show up on those old school kind of Grids a movie like this would do well, and I loved it selfishly, of course, I'm like, oh my gosh, this is incredible artistically and for my career, but then also as somebody who just loves what we do, it's like, see, you guys are wrong. People just everywhere we just want to have a good time, especially like you think about that today things are so polarized. It's one of the reasons I love what we do in comedy is like you could still bring people together to have a great time. And so I really credit when I when I talk about that jump for Harold and Kamar, it really was a fan driven thing. It wasn't marketing, it wasn't the studio. Obviously, I'm very great full of new Line and Warner brotherstunity, but it was really such a fan driven thing and that got us a second and third movie after that. So I absolutely credit that movie with being able to launch a career.
It was such a good movie. It was such a good movie.
I'm making it it did.
It had the same you know what it did is it had a new generation vibe of like Bill and Ted's Oh it just kind of brought you back to that buddy comedy, wacky, ridiculousness. I'm in one hundred percent wherever you go, I want to go with you guys. It was had that same vibe. It was awesome, great.
What else is cool about that? I mean just just talking about how you know when actors support each other. You know, we had so many cool cameos in Harold and Cargo. Yeah, and it was mostly because John and I had worked with all these amazing actors who basically we were either a supporting lead or in some way kind of worked with them, and there was this feeling of like, hey, when you and I remember Ryan Actually, Reynolds said this very explicitly when we were on Bean Wild. He was like, you know, man, when you get your first lead in something, I would love to do something supporting in it. So we called him. He played a nurse in this hospital. Anthony Anderson has a small part. Eddie K. Thomas has lead.
Like Neil Patrick Harris.
Neil Patrick Harris, I mean, no deal, but he Yeah.
He's obviously an integral part of the film. Dave crumbhols like, there's just so many great actors in all of these that have these cameos. It was really fun to put together great.
What did your family think of these movies and your success or at the time when it didn't do well in the theaters?
What did they think of that?
I think that the not doing well in theaters I don't necessarily remember, and I think part of it was I don't think my parents were like following box office results, right, And I think for a lot of people, I mean, you all have friends and family who are not in this crazy, wonderful business. When something comes out, if they know you, all they know is like your movie is out. They love you and they know you, and that's a very nice thing. So even if nobody else is watching it, they're like, everybody's watching this, right, It's a huge it. It's that kind of thing. So so I think, what's funny. I remember my mom, you know, when Van Wilder is a very I mean like Harold and Corn are very rated, our movie the very late nineties, early two thousands brand of comedy. And so I decided when I because Van Wilder was my first big, big part in the movie, I decided, you know, I want to explain to my parents the many ways in which acting is a is a real job and all the things that go into it and how it's a business. So I went home. It was probably Thanksgiving that year before I shot the movie, and I brought the script, and so I gave my parents the script. I'm like, read this Van Wilder movie. I just want you to see that there's even a script. You know, so many people you must just have fun every day at work, and ideally, yes you do, but there are writers and a crew, right. So I remember giving them the script and going to my childhood bedroom and after twenty minutes just hearing my mom yell, this is pornography. I obviously come running and I was like, oh, right to the topless scene in this movie. I was like, Mom, it's not. My dad's like, now I'm interested. So that was the bar right that we set, and in that, you know, they came to the premiere. They understood what type of the review was. But when Harold and Kabar comes out, I overheard my mom. I was home again for some reason, and I overheard my mom talk into my hand. I could only hear her side of the conversation, but I remember just thinking her talking about Harold and Kamar and saying, no, no, it's not like that. Van Wilder, This one's actually good. He has a big part. Like in my head, I was like, there's probably more profanity and news Harold and Kamar got a castle. But Mom is very much like, no, no, he's got a bigger part, so we have to see this. I was like, this is great.
So they went to the premiere? Did they did they on their own also see the movie in theaters.
They did see it in theaters. They brought their friends and they did a disclaimer. What I didn't realize they came to the premiere and the way that we were all seated. You know, you get to bring a bunch of your friends and your family. My mom was sitting next to Jenna, next to Jenna Bunnoy, and I didn't tell her. There's the opening scene, I'm naked, like you see it from behind. Yeah, it's basically like my bare butt act. And Jenna afterwards, like, you know, everyone's applauding. They do the thing people do it. Premiere is very self congratulatory. Oh the movie was funny, and Jenna just like grabs me by the collar and goes You did not tell me that we're going to be naked, and then I was going to be seated next to your It was like, oh, yeah, that was definitely my dad. I am sorry, I should have thought that through with the seating chart a little bit, but no, they came to the Premier and it was very nice, you know, especially you know, for an immigrant community. A lot of my parents' friends whose kids weren't in entertainment, it was very sweet to know that they were. You know, the thing I think which drives a lot of a lot of parents, whether their immigrants or not, is this fear is your kid going to go into a business that I don't really understand, understandable fear for parents, And so for them to know that they had that fear and still be like, we would like to go and support the thing that you're doing was really very kind, really sweet. Yes.
And then so much of your work post Harold and Kumar has been in such intense projects like you've done twenty four Designated Survivor, American Horror Story and even House to an extent, was that an intentional like a career turn or is it just that then you decided to flex a different muscle.
I think it's a lot of it was just chance, and I'm grateful for it. You know, I remember for both twenty four and well for twenty four, Yeah, they is it Robert Gordon? Is that his name? Mark Gorton? No Robert anyway, what are the Gordons?
What are the Gordons? Gordon Fisherman.
Well, there was no You're right, it's there's Mark and there's Chuck.
It would have been Mark then, yeah, I think that's of course. Yeah, so he I remember he called and they said, we'd like to offer you this part in twenty four. It's a four episode arc. We saw you in Harold and Kumar go to Whitecastle. And our feeling is that if you can do comedy of a specific type, then you you're definitely able to do drama. And we think it's an interesting this is these are the people that you dream about working with. Yeah, like, well, you're outside the box. Thing is frustrating to hear as an actor, but then you meet smart producers and directors who are like, actually that's what I want. I've only seen you. See you do another thing. And then similar thing with House. David Shore is such a talented guy created House and I remember going in to read for that and it's the first time still probably to this day, you go into this room they were casting. I think they were casting nine actors to be supporting characters for the first half of a new season of House. And of those nine, three were going to become series regulars, and so they were all doctors, right, And so they basically gave everybody the same sides. There were two or three different sides they gave everybody. So I was sitting next to both men and women age maybe twenty four to eight, and we all had one of three sets of sides right, for nine different characters. Wow. And I remember the sides I was given were for the part of a Mormon doctor. I don't know, like, I'm never going to get this right right, And then I'm like, get out of your head. There might be a reason they gave you these sides. Get out of your head. Just go in there, do a good job. And I ended up getting, you know, one of the nine parts. Then myself, Olivia Wilde, and Peter Jacobson became the three series regulars that season, and I got to know David really well, and I was like, man, now that I know you, I just have to ask you this actor question, like why did you give you know, fifty actors the same sides, you know, men and women and eighteen to eighty or whatever. He said, Well, I just I just wanted to make sure that I cast the best actors. Yeah right, but like we were all ethnically diverse type verse, like everyone was none of us looked the same. He's like, I don't really understand the question. I just wanted the best actors. I was like, okay, thanks, you me, you know. Yeah, And so those were That was another great experience of just like these are these are people who are so creative and they just really on the best actors, the best writers, the best experience on set. So I feel really lucky for both of those, I mean, especially House. I was on that trip for two and a half years. And yeah, really.
Was twenty four as an intense a set as they said it was?
Yeah, I mean yes, I think so. And I think it was intense as an actor also because you're because it's twenty four hours in each each season, right yeah, yeah, so it's in real time that you're kind of doing your scene for the most part, right, their little gaps when they cut to the commercial or whatever, but it's in it's in real time. So and I played a you know, I played this this terrorist who's taking a family hostage. And there are two things that I think, two things that most of us probably don't love. I won't speak for other people, but like, okay, obviously nobody loves a terrorist, right And I'm I'm not a big gun guy like right handguns, yea. And I'm holding this handgun holding a family hostage for four weeks and it but because each scene is real time, it really was like it was very That's that's probably the only I'm not a method actor by any means, but I had a hard time sleeping when i'd get.
Home from I bet.
Yeah, up, you know you are from playing a character like that. Awesome exercise, awesome acting exercise.
Yeah.
Also, there's I didn't have. I worked with Kiefer when we did Designated Survival. Yeah, there's only one scene that we overlapped on twenty four. It's obviously way before I knew him, and I was a big twenty four fan. And so at the end, my character gets shot when there's this raid and people are running around everywhere and I'm supposed to turn a corner and Keifer you know, draws his weapon and says drup your weapon. So we rehearse it and I'm in character and I'm like in the zone and I come around the corner, cameras are rolling and he just goes drop your weapon, And in my head all I can think is, oh my god, that's you for some.
Just ruined it for myself, takes out of it, that's all about.
Well.
You would also end up in legendary sitcoms like Big Bang Theory, How I Met Your Mother, and you would later even create an EP, your own show, Sunnyside with super producer Mike Sure.
What do you love about sitcoms?
I like baking people laugh so much. I mean I grew up on the classic era of I mean you can't even really say classic era since TV has changed so much, so probably unfair, but it's the nostalgia, right, It's the like the Full House Boy meets World Growing Pains, like all the shows that you you would you could watch with your friends, you would certainly watch with your family, but then you talk about it in school the next day. Yeah, it's great unifier. And obviously today there are a lot more choices of what people can watch, but the idea that you can still make people happy and make people kind of smile and enjoy themselves is something that I really love. I loved it. Look obviously, my like my ten year old nephew is not allowed to watch Harold Kamar Go to Away Castle yet maybe soon, but he can watch this TV series last year called The Santa Clauses with Tim Allens, Yes, Christmas show six episodes. Obviously, who doesn't love Tim from his sitcoms yea. And so that was one where I'm like, this is so different than the Harold and Kumar audience, and I love it because you get to make a whole different set of people laugh and smile.
Well, that actually leads me. It's a perfect intro to my next question. You have a lot of projects that involve Christmas. You have Harold and Kumar Christmas and Deck the Halls, Mess Holiday and then the Santa Clauses.
Is this coincidental or intentional?
Do you?
Are you just a big Christmas person?
I mean I am, but I think it's I think it's coincidental. Yeah, actually it is concidental. Tell you so well. Hot Mess Holiday. Actually, hot Mess Holiday is more of a the Volley movie. Okay, happens around Christmas time. Okay, I think that was on purpose that we wanted to merge the two. In real life, they happen around each other November. But I think we merged the themes a little morse that could be a little more like celebratory, right, and then yeah, Harold and Kumar Christmas. I just remember when the writers John Horwitz and Aiden Slasberg called with, like, here's the concept for the third movie. And I am a big Christmas fan. You know, it's mostly like Home Alone Christmas Story era stuff, but definitely national and pooon like any Yeah, this comedy I love, but I had Yeah, I'd never thought about whether that was on purpose. Also, I mean with like the Santa Claus is this, I guess we shot it two years ago. You you know, we shot over the summer in la and like you're off, you get to go to the North Pole every day like the sh right right, You sit in hair and makeup, you go over your lines, and then you are legitimately just in the North Pole. And the only creepy part of it was all of the children who played elves have their like little pointy ears. They're like, you know, when they're in character on the North Pole set I'm cool, Like, we're good, right, they call like a twenty minute lighting reset. The bell rings, the massive door opens, and suddenly these kids with their pointy ears, their creepy shoes are sitting having granola bars, talking like adults.
Like do you like Machia TI? I like, don't take me out of it, guys, I got to call my agent.
No, they were all obviously very sweet, very sweet kids. But but I love that you get to get to day.
It was it still a two and a half hour bus ride to the North Pole.
There's nothing I.
Love more than fake snow. Like working with fakes no makes me so happy. It's like the most Hollywood movie magic experience. We're like, wow, it's it's many degrees in LA, but we're going to make it look like it's freezing.
I love that combo they do now of like some of it is so analog, low rent, looks like it you can see at the mall. And then suddenly there's like, is this real snow? Look Actually it's soupisodes that we put I don't.
Want to know, just me, just don't tell me, just don't tell me.
Well, before we let you go, I do have one kind of important question for you, as someone who took a sabbatical from acting to work in the Obama administration.
Does Obama know that you were on Boy Meets World? Does yeah? Does Obama know what Boy Meets World is?
I don't know. I can try to get you some confirmation.
I would like nothing more than to know whether.
A question yeah to you?
And I've really I've wondered before, I've wondered does he does he.
Know of Boy's World?
He and Missus Obama are both very pop culture savvy, so like, I know, he obviously knows about that war, movies and things like that. I would love to go just a little farther back to see, let me see what I can dig up.
Okay, see what you can dig up for us?
Boy?
That would really, that would really make me feel good.
So I ask you, guys a question, what's the if you don't mind? Because I've I love that you do this podcast, and I love how much love there is for your show, which I only see, by the way, I only see when you don't know if you know this, Like most people go on Twitter to.
Be mean, right, I know, Twitter's assesspool of mostly awful stuff.
This is like any time this episode airs anywhere, there's like I'm getting tagged in these really sweet wrong about how much people love Boy means world.
Like we have the best fans in the world.
Oh yeah, is this like this must be such an incredible podcast to do and to like engage with fans old and new, Like do you just love it?
It's so life affirming, man, It's like yeah, I mean because you know, I think for all of us, we've gone through periods of like you know, not getting work or changing careers or just like what is you know, what is the legacy of this this thing that we spent so much time doing, and so yeah, doing this podcast is just brought it front and center into our lives of like oh no, wow, these like it's beloved and and you know, being able to discover why and how it's just been wonderful. Yeah.
Yeah, and you know being able to It's like there's there's a certain amount of time you need away from something to be able to see it more objectively.
And I think we started this podcast at a perfect time.
In our lives where we're on that the other side of middle age where you're able to to have that distance from who you were as a teenager where now you can look at it and instead of being wounded by a certain experience, or instead of reliving it in a way that feels too personal, we can look at it and go, man, I love that, that's so that shape who I am, that changed me there, or even.
Kind of things that you know, it's felt therapeutic. It's been.
It has been the highlight of truly one of the massive one of the main highlights of my entire career is this podcast. I love what we have done here so much, and it's just ours and it's been great.
I also think it it points out that exactly what you were talking about, where there comes a time where everybody, I don't know, Boy meets World seemed like a time back then, and now people are rediscovering it where you could just put everything aside, everything else that's going on in the world, everything that makes you different from people are the same, None of it matters. You put it aside and everybody can just enjoy something wholesome. And I think that's kind of missing nowadays, where it's just I mean, we're not a monoculture anymore. So, the idea of everybody watching something and then going to school and talking about it doesn't seem to immun occasion you get a stranger things or something like that, but for the most part, it's we don't have that anymore. So I think people being able to go back to a time in their lives that didn't seem as complicated, where the most complicated question was is Tapanga gonna really ask Corey to marry? I mean, that's a wonderful time to go back to.
So yeah, it's been. It's been pretty magical.
That's so cool.
Yeah, we're really lucky, and we are really grateful that you came and spent your very precious time with us.
You have been an absolute delight. We have been looking so.
Forward to talking to you and reconnecting with you, and we hope that it's not the last time.
So I look forward to seeing you again. Thank you for being here.
When you guys are in New York, Okay, that would be good.
Thank you so much, Thank you so much.
By by bye.
Another person that you go, well, some things are right in the universe. When when someone who has a dream like living in New Jersey and a performing art high school goes I want to go to la and see if I can make it an entertainment and then does and is that freaking nice and smart and cool?
Yeah, he's also go back and watch Harold and Kumar from strictly a comedic acting standpoint.
He's phenomenal, so funny, he is hitting beats like he's the that's.
The kind of comedy that I like. Where it's like, oh, where where did that rhythm in that joke come from? Like where did you pick that up? It's just's awesome in a.
Lot of ways.
Will things he was saying really remind me of you. I think you guys would be I think you guys would be good friends.
Really awesome? Are you kidding?
I think you guys would be good friends?
And I Allan will go to McDonald's. Oh my god, greatest thing ever.
Thank you all for joining us for this episode of Pod Meets World as all. You can follow us on Instagram pod Meets World Show. You can send us your emails Podmeets World Show at gmail dot com.
And we've got merch.
I can't beat Callum Will go to McDonald's. Merch.
I can't beat it. I'd love to beat it. I had nine of the things in my head, but no, that's the new one. That's the standard.
I'm sticking with it.
Podmeetsworldshow dot com. We love you all, pod dismissed. Pod Meets World is an iHeart podcast produced and hosted by Danielle Fischel Wilfridell and writer Strong Executive producers Jensen Karp and Amy Sugarman. Executive in charge of production, Danielle Romo, producer and editor, Tara sudbachsch producer, Maddy Moore, engineer and Boy Meets World superfan Easton Allen. Our theme song is by Kyle Morton of Typhoon. Follow us on Instagram at Podmeets World Show or email us at Podmeets Worldshow at gmail dot com