From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age. This is the morning edition. I'm Samantha Selinger Morris. It's Wednesday, July 2nd. It was the killing that led to protests not just across Australia, but in New Zealand and the United States too, because the brutal beating of 15 year old Cassius Turvey while he was walking home from school didn't just end the life of a boy who was on a steady path to buck one of Australia's most damning trends, that a young indigenous man is more likely to go to prison than to university. The killing also reopened one of this country's foundational wounds. Today, WA today reporter Rebecca Peppiatt, on the sentencing of the killers last week, and what she understands about the community that birthed these killers, where she herself lives, that she thinks we should know, too. So, Rebecca, you have been covering the murder of Cassius Turvey since it occurred nearly three years ago. Now, it made national headlines at the time, and for good reason. So can you just remind us what the case was about?

From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age. This is the morning edition. I'm Samantha Selinger Morris. It's Wednesday, July 2nd. It was the killing that led to protests not just across Australia, but in New Zealand and the United States too, because the brutal beating of 15 year old Cassius Turvey while he was walking home from school didn't just end the life of a boy who was on a steady path to buck one of Australia's most damning trends, that a young indigenous man is more likely to go to prison than to university. The killing also reopened one of this country's foundational wounds. Today, WA today reporter Rebecca Peppiatt, on the sentencing of the killers last week, and what she understands about the community that birthed these killers, where she herself lives, that she thinks we should know, too. So, Rebecca, you have been covering the murder of Cassius Turvey since it occurred nearly three years ago. Now, it made national headlines at the time, and for good reason. So can you just remind us what the case was about?

So Cassius was walking home from school in the East Perth suburb of Middle Swan when he was assaulted. He had been ambushed by a group of young men who bashed him over the head with a shopping trolley handle, and they all went to trial recently. It's a low socioeconomic area. There are a large contingent of indigenous people that live here, and there is a lot of crime. It's a high crime area, and there's definitely a feeling in this region that if a crime is committed, it's Aboriginals. It's it's indigenous people, indigenous children. He was with a group of other indigenous children at the time, so they were all there for a completely separate reason. The guys who did it had thought that their car windows had been smashed by a group of indigenous children, and so they saw them and just started chasing them. And it came out in court that the only reason Cassius was the one who was bashed, he was the only one that was assaulted is because he was the slowest. Uh, they just caught him and felt that they had delivered their punishment and left it there.

So Cassius was walking home from school in the East Perth suburb of Middle Swan when he was assaulted. He had been ambushed by a group of young men who bashed him over the head with a shopping trolley handle, and they all went to trial recently. It's a low socioeconomic area. There are a large contingent of indigenous people that live here, and there is a lot of crime. It's a high crime area, and there's definitely a feeling in this region that if a crime is committed, it's Aboriginals. It's it's indigenous people, indigenous children. He was with a group of other indigenous children at the time, so they were all there for a completely separate reason. The guys who did it had thought that their car windows had been smashed by a group of indigenous children, and so they saw them and just started chasing them. And it came out in court that the only reason Cassius was the one who was bashed, he was the only one that was assaulted is because he was the slowest. Uh, they just caught him and felt that they had delivered their punishment and left it there.

It was a murder that shook the nation. An innocent Aboriginal schoolboy hunted down and brutally bashed in broad daylight.

It was a murder that shook the nation. An innocent Aboriginal schoolboy hunted down and brutally bashed in broad daylight.

Around the country. We are feeling this so deeply as you said, Sarah. We want an end to violence. We wanted it.

Around the country. We are feeling this so deeply as you said, Sarah. We want an end to violence. We wanted it.

Created a lot of angst in the community. And there were candlelit vigils and talks of even, uh, riots and retaliation, not just here, but I think across the country as well.

Created a lot of angst in the community. And there were candlelit vigils and talks of even, uh, riots and retaliation, not just here, but I think across the country as well.

Rallies are being planned across the nation as anger builds over the alleged racially motivated murder of Perth schoolboy Cassius Turvey.

Rallies are being planned across the nation as anger builds over the alleged racially motivated murder of Perth schoolboy Cassius Turvey.

Shame. Let me hear you.

Shame. Let me hear you.

This attack that clearly racially motivated, uh, just breaks your heart. We're a better country than that. And my heart goes out to the family.

This attack that clearly racially motivated, uh, just breaks your heart. We're a better country than that. And my heart goes out to the family.

He was an indigenous boy that was, you know, run down and attacked by a group of white people. And for that reason, there was this whole sort of racial element to it that people assumed that it was a racially motivated assault, whether that's the case or not. That was kind of delved into through the trial. Definitely. There were a lot of racial slurs used during the attack that came out in the trial through evidence. But whether they were seeking a black person to assault, they denied.

He was an indigenous boy that was, you know, run down and attacked by a group of white people. And for that reason, there was this whole sort of racial element to it that people assumed that it was a racially motivated assault, whether that's the case or not. That was kind of delved into through the trial. Definitely. There were a lot of racial slurs used during the attack that came out in the trial through evidence. But whether they were seeking a black person to assault, they denied.

Okay. And I really want to get into the trial and the sentencing that we've just had. But first, can you just tell us a little bit more about who Cassius Turvey was? Because my understanding is from all accounts, he held great promise. And he actually really wanted to change the negative stereotype about young Aboriginal people in Australia. So tell us a bit about him.

Okay. And I really want to get into the trial and the sentencing that we've just had. But first, can you just tell us a little bit more about who Cassius Turvey was? Because my understanding is from all accounts, he held great promise. And he actually really wanted to change the negative stereotype about young Aboriginal people in Australia. So tell us a bit about him.

Yeah. So he was obviously only 15 unfortunately when he passed away, but he'd already was doing great things. You know, he was he'd started a business in the local community, the Lawnmower Boys, I think it was called with a group of friends to go around and obviously mow people's lawns. And his reason for doing that was to change the stereotypes around young indigenous people in the area, and to do some good and show that they were responsible, hardworking kids. So that was one part of it. He was about to start a part time job at Kmart in the local town here. Um, he was doing really well at school. He was well thought of as a kid who was someone that the other children could, um, lean on and speak to. And he was a role model for them. He was spoken a lot about by other people as, uh, you know, a born leader and, um, someone who really guided his peers and, you know, definitely would have gone on to do great things, which just made the whole thing much sadder than it needed to be, because he had so much promise yet as a kid.

Yeah. So he was obviously only 15 unfortunately when he passed away, but he'd already was doing great things. You know, he was he'd started a business in the local community, the Lawnmower Boys, I think it was called with a group of friends to go around and obviously mow people's lawns. And his reason for doing that was to change the stereotypes around young indigenous people in the area, and to do some good and show that they were responsible, hardworking kids. So that was one part of it. He was about to start a part time job at Kmart in the local town here. Um, he was doing really well at school. He was well thought of as a kid who was someone that the other children could, um, lean on and speak to. And he was a role model for them. He was spoken a lot about by other people as, uh, you know, a born leader and, um, someone who really guided his peers and, you know, definitely would have gone on to do great things, which just made the whole thing much sadder than it needed to be, because he had so much promise yet as a kid.

Okay. And of course, the reason why we're talking about this case again is because the men responsible for killing Cassius Turvey, they were just sentenced in the Supreme Court in Western Australia last week. So tell us what else unfolded in court.

Okay. And of course, the reason why we're talking about this case again is because the men responsible for killing Cassius Turvey, they were just sentenced in the Supreme Court in Western Australia last week. So tell us what else unfolded in court.

Uh, there was a lot of information that came out. It was a four hour sentencing, which is kind of unheard of for us over here.

Uh, there was a lot of information that came out. It was a four hour sentencing, which is kind of unheard of for us over here.

It would be bad enough and deserving of condemnation for you to have committed these offences in response to your petty grievances, If your victims had actually done anything. But in this case, none of them had. Your so-called vigilante justice was completely misdirected.

It would be bad enough and deserving of condemnation for you to have committed these offences in response to your petty grievances, If your victims had actually done anything. But in this case, none of them had. Your so-called vigilante justice was completely misdirected.

The judge went into a lot of detail. Chief Justice Peter Quinlan not only about Cassius. He, um, he did compare him to Cassius Clay, Muhammad Ali, and said that, you know, he was a born leader and he was going to go on to, you know, do great things. And then he delved into the backgrounds of of the perpetrators themselves and what may have led them to do what they did. So Jack Brearley will serve a life sentence in prison with a minimum non-parole period of 22 years. And Brody Palmer will serve a minimum non-parole period of 18 years. But also on a life sentence, so he may not get out at that time either. Mitchell Forth was convicted of manslaughter. The manslaughter of. Of Cassius. The other two, though, were not. But Alicia Gilmore was charged with his murder but acquitted, but found guilty of other crimes in the lead up to his death.

The judge went into a lot of detail. Chief Justice Peter Quinlan not only about Cassius. He, um, he did compare him to Cassius Clay, Muhammad Ali, and said that, you know, he was a born leader and he was going to go on to, you know, do great things. And then he delved into the backgrounds of of the perpetrators themselves and what may have led them to do what they did. So Jack Brearley will serve a life sentence in prison with a minimum non-parole period of 22 years. And Brody Palmer will serve a minimum non-parole period of 18 years. But also on a life sentence, so he may not get out at that time either. Mitchell Forth was convicted of manslaughter. The manslaughter of. Of Cassius. The other two, though, were not. But Alicia Gilmore was charged with his murder but acquitted, but found guilty of other crimes in the lead up to his death.

And so? So the chief justice.

And so? So the chief justice.

Peter Quinlan, he, you know, sort of, I guess, explained this retribution angle, which I guess has been described as the reason why this killing has happened. But we know that Cassius mother, Michelle Turvey, she definitely sees it differently. She sees this as a racially motivated crime. So why why?

Peter Quinlan, he, you know, sort of, I guess, explained this retribution angle, which I guess has been described as the reason why this killing has happened. But we know that Cassius mother, Michelle Turvey, she definitely sees it differently. She sees this as a racially motivated crime. So why why?

So Michelle at the time went went along with what the police had, um, put out there. And I believe that is because they were trying to calm the mood. There was a lot of elevated tension and emotions around that time of Cassius death, where the community were reeling from what had happened and wanted, um, something to be done about the fact that a lot of indigenous kids were being targeted as as they fell and the police obviously went out of their way to try and calm that down. However, by last week, after the trial had ended, it was a three month trial earlier this year. By Friday, when the sentencing was being delivered, Michele stood up in court and gave a very emotional victim impact statement and then revealed that she she thought that it was racially motivated and that her son wouldn't have been killed if he weren't a black kid. A little bit at odds with what the police had said, but the judge did delve into that as well in his sentencing remarks.

So Michelle at the time went went along with what the police had, um, put out there. And I believe that is because they were trying to calm the mood. There was a lot of elevated tension and emotions around that time of Cassius death, where the community were reeling from what had happened and wanted, um, something to be done about the fact that a lot of indigenous kids were being targeted as as they fell and the police obviously went out of their way to try and calm that down. However, by last week, after the trial had ended, it was a three month trial earlier this year. By Friday, when the sentencing was being delivered, Michele stood up in court and gave a very emotional victim impact statement and then revealed that she she thought that it was racially motivated and that her son wouldn't have been killed if he weren't a black kid. A little bit at odds with what the police had said, but the judge did delve into that as well in his sentencing remarks.

So it is no surprise that when a group of non-Aboriginal adult men set upon a group of predominantly Aboriginal kids using language like that, and one of those adults beats a boy so badly that it kills him that the kids would think that they were being targeted because they were Aboriginal, and that the attack.

So it is no surprise that when a group of non-Aboriginal adult men set upon a group of predominantly Aboriginal kids using language like that, and one of those adults beats a boy so badly that it kills him that the kids would think that they were being targeted because they were Aboriginal, and that the attack.

I think there was a particularly heartbreaking moment, wasn't there, when she, I guess, yelled at Jack Brierley, one of the men who has been found guilty of the murder, you know, did you learn your lesson now, Jack? And that was, I think, in response to something that he had said or allegedly said during the attack, which is that he referred to, you know, Cassius learning his lesson, I guess. So tell us a bit about that.

I think there was a particularly heartbreaking moment, wasn't there, when she, I guess, yelled at Jack Brierley, one of the men who has been found guilty of the murder, you know, did you learn your lesson now, Jack? And that was, I think, in response to something that he had said or allegedly said during the attack, which is that he referred to, you know, Cassius learning his lesson, I guess. So tell us a bit about that.

Yeah. She actually yelled that out from the back of court as they were being led out of the court at the end of the sentencing. So there were a huge contingent of her family and friends and cassius's friends who came to court almost every single day of the trial for a three month trial, which is, you know, unheard of. And she, you know, was extremely respectful of the court process whilst also hearing horrific evidence because Jack really after Jack had committed the offence, he was caught on CCTV cameras. He didn't say this to the police, but he was overheard on these cameras in the days after kind of celebrating what he had done. You know, he'd bashed his this kid and felt vindicated for what had happened to him. And, you know, they've learned their lesson now because he felt that he was doling out punishment to them for something they had done to him.

Yeah. She actually yelled that out from the back of court as they were being led out of the court at the end of the sentencing. So there were a huge contingent of her family and friends and cassius's friends who came to court almost every single day of the trial for a three month trial, which is, you know, unheard of. And she, you know, was extremely respectful of the court process whilst also hearing horrific evidence because Jack really after Jack had committed the offence, he was caught on CCTV cameras. He didn't say this to the police, but he was overheard on these cameras in the days after kind of celebrating what he had done. You know, he'd bashed his this kid and felt vindicated for what had happened to him. And, you know, they've learned their lesson now because he felt that he was doling out punishment to them for something they had done to him.

While he was laying in the field. And I was just smacking him with the trolley pole so hard that he goes, he's learnt his lesson. That celebration, in which all three of you participated, was a grotesque display of your complete disregard for the lives of the children you had attacked only hours earlier.

While he was laying in the field. And I was just smacking him with the trolley pole so hard that he goes, he's learnt his lesson. That celebration, in which all three of you participated, was a grotesque display of your complete disregard for the lives of the children you had attacked only hours earlier.

So as he was led out of court on Friday. Yeah. Michelle stood up and I guess unleashed a whole ton of emotion that she'd been hanging onto for a very long time. And she said, you know, have you got your your punishment now or words to that effect as he was being led out of the out of the courtroom. And of course, he didn't look back or say anything in return. But yeah, it was quite emotional.

So as he was led out of court on Friday. Yeah. Michelle stood up and I guess unleashed a whole ton of emotion that she'd been hanging onto for a very long time. And she said, you know, have you got your your punishment now or words to that effect as he was being led out of the out of the courtroom. And of course, he didn't look back or say anything in return. But yeah, it was quite emotional.

Cassius was only a baby, a gentle giant who will be forever 15. His absence leaves a void that will never be filled. And our families dreams and plans for the future have been irrevocably altered. We will never see him grow into the remarkable person he was destined to become.

Cassius was only a baby, a gentle giant who will be forever 15. His absence leaves a void that will never be filled. And our families dreams and plans for the future have been irrevocably altered. We will never see him grow into the remarkable person he was destined to become.

We'll be back in a minute.

We'll be back in a minute.

And it really brings.

And it really brings.

Me to your latest piece on this horrific murder. And I really would encourage listeners to seek it out and read it, because you actually tackle the question of why the perpetrators, why these men, you know, committed this horrific crime. So tell us what you found out about them.

Me to your latest piece on this horrific murder. And I really would encourage listeners to seek it out and read it, because you actually tackle the question of why the perpetrators, why these men, you know, committed this horrific crime. So tell us what you found out about them.

Yeah, it was actually quite sad. They had horrific childhoods, really, really sad. Drug addict mothers, neglectful homes, disadvantaged homes where they they didn't have anything like the kind of Guidance, love, care and attention that any child should have, but also, quite interestingly, the life that Cassie has had. You know, he was guided by this strong mother who, um, and and his father, his father had died, unfortunately, a couple of months before Cassius did. But he was also a really strong force in Cassie's life, which obviously led him to become the kind of kid that he was and the person that he would have been. But the people who have actually taken that from him didn't have anything like those kind of advantages in their youth. They were living on the edge of poverty and essentially left to raise themselves. All of them turned to drugs and, you know, went down a really dark path. And I think just they they banded together with that and became a gang, almost, um, and just felt that they were able and, and entitled to go out and use violence on other people in almost the same way that it had been done to them. So while they're not excuses, you know, there's some really interesting lessons to learn there, I think, from their childhood. And that was what my story was about, just kind of looking behind these crimes. And I think the point I wanted to put across was, you know, it's alright to try and rehabilitate these people now because that was a big part of the sentencing submissions on Friday was that they're going to get a lot of mental health support, counselling and therapy and drug and alcohol intervention whilst they're in prison, and that was a big part of what the judge wanted for them. But it's too late. It's, you know, they're they're in their 20s now. And um, potentially if there had been some kind of intervention when they were younger, um, if they'd been raised differently, who knows how you could have changed it. But, you know, essentially this, this crime would never have happened.

Yeah, it was actually quite sad. They had horrific childhoods, really, really sad. Drug addict mothers, neglectful homes, disadvantaged homes where they they didn't have anything like the kind of Guidance, love, care and attention that any child should have, but also, quite interestingly, the life that Cassie has had. You know, he was guided by this strong mother who, um, and and his father, his father had died, unfortunately, a couple of months before Cassius did. But he was also a really strong force in Cassie's life, which obviously led him to become the kind of kid that he was and the person that he would have been. But the people who have actually taken that from him didn't have anything like those kind of advantages in their youth. They were living on the edge of poverty and essentially left to raise themselves. All of them turned to drugs and, you know, went down a really dark path. And I think just they they banded together with that and became a gang, almost, um, and just felt that they were able and, and entitled to go out and use violence on other people in almost the same way that it had been done to them. So while they're not excuses, you know, there's some really interesting lessons to learn there, I think, from their childhood. And that was what my story was about, just kind of looking behind these crimes. And I think the point I wanted to put across was, you know, it's alright to try and rehabilitate these people now because that was a big part of the sentencing submissions on Friday was that they're going to get a lot of mental health support, counselling and therapy and drug and alcohol intervention whilst they're in prison, and that was a big part of what the judge wanted for them. But it's too late. It's, you know, they're they're in their 20s now. And um, potentially if there had been some kind of intervention when they were younger, um, if they'd been raised differently, who knows how you could have changed it. But, you know, essentially this, this crime would never have happened.

Yeah. And it's something that the judge really spoke about as well, isn't it? Because one of the most striking lines from your piece is from when the sentencing judge said, you know, it would be easier to say that these men, you know, who were responsible for the murder were monsters rather than human beings. But this would, you know, somewhat hamper all of us from trying to prevent these crimes from occurring. So I wanted to ask why you really delved into the background of the people that committed this crime. And did you have any trepidation to to write about the offenders rather than focusing, of course, on Cassius Turvey?

Yeah. And it's something that the judge really spoke about as well, isn't it? Because one of the most striking lines from your piece is from when the sentencing judge said, you know, it would be easier to say that these men, you know, who were responsible for the murder were monsters rather than human beings. But this would, you know, somewhat hamper all of us from trying to prevent these crimes from occurring. So I wanted to ask why you really delved into the background of the people that committed this crime. And did you have any trepidation to to write about the offenders rather than focusing, of course, on Cassius Turvey?

Yeah, I definitely had trepidation. I've been a court reporter for about three years now, specifically on courts and crime. And I sit there almost daily and hear these horrific stories. The saddest place on the planet is the children's court. If you've ever been to a children's court and you sit there time and again, these children come up before the judges and they have the most horrific lives. They're on the streets. They're going from sofa to sofa. They're children and they're committing crimes daily. They're stealing. They're bashing people. They're doing awful things that people want their blood for. You know, put them away. Lock them up. But hang on a second. What? How would your life be if you also had that kind of a childhood and you were being neglected and you didn't know where you were getting food from, and you were born with alcohol in your system or drugs in your system, and drugs and violence were in front of you on a daily basis. You know, that's a normal life for them. And it was almost something out of a movie. One of these boys that has been convicted was born in the back of an ambulance, while his mum was high on meth. No one knows about that. That's not something that people talk about over their breakfast. Like that's not a thing that people are ever faced with. They don't walk around seeing this on the streets, but it's there. And until we start linking that to these horrendous crimes, it's never going to change. And it needs to start at the very least with a conversation.

Yeah, I definitely had trepidation. I've been a court reporter for about three years now, specifically on courts and crime. And I sit there almost daily and hear these horrific stories. The saddest place on the planet is the children's court. If you've ever been to a children's court and you sit there time and again, these children come up before the judges and they have the most horrific lives. They're on the streets. They're going from sofa to sofa. They're children and they're committing crimes daily. They're stealing. They're bashing people. They're doing awful things that people want their blood for. You know, put them away. Lock them up. But hang on a second. What? How would your life be if you also had that kind of a childhood and you were being neglected and you didn't know where you were getting food from, and you were born with alcohol in your system or drugs in your system, and drugs and violence were in front of you on a daily basis. You know, that's a normal life for them. And it was almost something out of a movie. One of these boys that has been convicted was born in the back of an ambulance, while his mum was high on meth. No one knows about that. That's not something that people talk about over their breakfast. Like that's not a thing that people are ever faced with. They don't walk around seeing this on the streets, but it's there. And until we start linking that to these horrendous crimes, it's never going to change. And it needs to start at the very least with a conversation.

And you told me before recording.

And you told me before recording.

That, you know, when you do write about the backstory of people who have committed horrible crimes, you inevitably get backlash from readers. And I'm just wondering, did you decide to to face that in this case, anyway, by writing about the backgrounds of of the perpetrators because it's close to home for you, right? Like you said, that your son actually attends the same school that Cassius Turvey went to. So you have a particular insight into this area, don't you?

That, you know, when you do write about the backstory of people who have committed horrible crimes, you inevitably get backlash from readers. And I'm just wondering, did you decide to to face that in this case, anyway, by writing about the backgrounds of of the perpetrators because it's close to home for you, right? Like you said, that your son actually attends the same school that Cassius Turvey went to. So you have a particular insight into this area, don't you?

Yeah. That's right. And yes, I have had plenty of backlash over the years from, uh, trying to paint that other side of the picture. People don't want to hear it. They only want to know that these people are bad. They're evil. They are monsters. Like, has been mentioned here. Um, and they need to pay for their crimes. But there's always more to it. And yes, in this case, it was closer to home than usual. And literally and figuratively. Because I live in the same suburbs as these people. My kid could have been with those kids with Cassius again. My my son would have been a friend of Cassius. He's a few years younger than Cassius would have been. Um, but he could have been on that bus. He could have jumped off the bus with his friends and just ambushing along and just wandering around like they were doing and being chased. And he could have been the one assaulted. And when something's that close to home, you really, um, you really look a bit more deeper at it. There's not a separation there for me where people can sit in their ivory towers over on the for us, the, the west side of Perth, where it's, um, a lot more affluent and just think, oh, well, that's a suburbs issue. I live there and it's, it's not just an issue for that area. I'm sure it's an issue everywhere in different parts of Australia and it's a bigger issue. You know, it needs to needs to be talked about.

Yeah. That's right. And yes, I have had plenty of backlash over the years from, uh, trying to paint that other side of the picture. People don't want to hear it. They only want to know that these people are bad. They're evil. They are monsters. Like, has been mentioned here. Um, and they need to pay for their crimes. But there's always more to it. And yes, in this case, it was closer to home than usual. And literally and figuratively. Because I live in the same suburbs as these people. My kid could have been with those kids with Cassius again. My my son would have been a friend of Cassius. He's a few years younger than Cassius would have been. Um, but he could have been on that bus. He could have jumped off the bus with his friends and just ambushing along and just wandering around like they were doing and being chased. And he could have been the one assaulted. And when something's that close to home, you really, um, you really look a bit more deeper at it. There's not a separation there for me where people can sit in their ivory towers over on the for us, the, the west side of Perth, where it's, um, a lot more affluent and just think, oh, well, that's a suburbs issue. I live there and it's, it's not just an issue for that area. I'm sure it's an issue everywhere in different parts of Australia and it's a bigger issue. You know, it needs to needs to be talked about.

And Rebecca.

And Rebecca.

Just to wrap up, tell us about Michelle Turvey and I guess what her perspective is now on perhaps what she hopes we take from this horrific killing of her son, because we know that she actually took on a role with the police after her son's killing. So. So what does she do for them? And what does she hope for the future?

Just to wrap up, tell us about Michelle Turvey and I guess what her perspective is now on perhaps what she hopes we take from this horrific killing of her son, because we know that she actually took on a role with the police after her son's killing. So. So what does she do for them? And what does she hope for the future?

Yeah, she was extremely emotional on Friday and she, I think, just felt that justice had been served and she felt happy with with the process and the fact that there were the convictions for all of them after Cassius was killed. She spoke out publicly a lot. An extremely intelligent woman and extremely wise and a tough lady. So, so tough. She could have very easily at that moment, you know, spearheaded a riot. You know, she had the capacity for that because she was so well thought of in the indigenous community that people were would listen to her and she brought calm in the community instead. She said, no, let's let justice take its course. Let's all just calm and see how this process is going to unfold and that the police were dealing with it.

Yeah, she was extremely emotional on Friday and she, I think, just felt that justice had been served and she felt happy with with the process and the fact that there were the convictions for all of them after Cassius was killed. She spoke out publicly a lot. An extremely intelligent woman and extremely wise and a tough lady. So, so tough. She could have very easily at that moment, you know, spearheaded a riot. You know, she had the capacity for that because she was so well thought of in the indigenous community that people were would listen to her and she brought calm in the community instead. She said, no, let's let justice take its course. Let's all just calm and see how this process is going to unfold and that the police were dealing with it.

I want calm in the community and in the country.

I want calm in the community and in the country.

And they were so grateful for that. I think the police and they were so they were full of admiration about how she handled the situation, and they literally recruited her after that and said, Will you come and speak to our officers in particular, how, um, they could do better with that cultural issue? So, you know, as organizations like that tend to be predominantly white, and they're dealing predominantly, predominantly, sadly, with, um, indigenous, um, offenders. And here was someone who could kind of play a role that would, um, bring those two together to come and sit through her own son's murder trial like that and hear the horrific things that were said and done to him, is is testament to her strength. And, you know, hopefully now I think she's just planning to put it behind her. That's we did speak to her outside of court on Friday, and she was less than flattering about the people that had done what they'd done to her son. And she would be and and the way that things had unfolded and the fact that they had pleaded not guilty and took the whole thing to trial, which dragged out the pain for her and made obviously things harder for her, and as well as the other children that were involved. I'd say at this point in time, she just wants to put it behind her and try and move on with grieving her son and her husband.

And they were so grateful for that. I think the police and they were so they were full of admiration about how she handled the situation, and they literally recruited her after that and said, Will you come and speak to our officers in particular, how, um, they could do better with that cultural issue? So, you know, as organizations like that tend to be predominantly white, and they're dealing predominantly, predominantly, sadly, with, um, indigenous, um, offenders. And here was someone who could kind of play a role that would, um, bring those two together to come and sit through her own son's murder trial like that and hear the horrific things that were said and done to him, is is testament to her strength. And, you know, hopefully now I think she's just planning to put it behind her. That's we did speak to her outside of court on Friday, and she was less than flattering about the people that had done what they'd done to her son. And she would be and and the way that things had unfolded and the fact that they had pleaded not guilty and took the whole thing to trial, which dragged out the pain for her and made obviously things harder for her, and as well as the other children that were involved. I'd say at this point in time, she just wants to put it behind her and try and move on with grieving her son and her husband.

Well, we're so lucky that you've been following this so closely and written about it with such humanity and nuance. So thank you so much, Rebecca, for your time.

Well, we're so lucky that you've been following this so closely and written about it with such humanity and nuance. So thank you so much, Rebecca, for your time.

No worries. Thanks for having me.

No worries. Thanks for having me.

My boy talks to me every day through my heart and tells me what I need to do. That's it for me.

My boy talks to me every day through my heart and tells me what I need to do. That's it for me.

Today's episode of The Morning Edition was produced by Julia Carcasole. Our executive producer is Tammy Mills. Tom McKendrick is our head of audio. To listen to our episodes as soon as they drop, follow the Morning Edition on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Our newsrooms are powered by subscriptions, so to support independent journalism, visit The Age or smh.com.au. Subscribe. And to stay up to date, sign up to our Morning Edition newsletter to receive a summary of the day's most important news in your inbox every morning. Links are in the show. Notes. I'm Samantha Selinger. Morris. Thanks for listening.

Today's episode of The Morning Edition was produced by Julia Carcasole. Our executive producer is Tammy Mills. Tom McKendrick is our head of audio. To listen to our episodes as soon as they drop, follow the Morning Edition on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Our newsrooms are powered by subscriptions, so to support independent journalism, visit The Age or smh.com.au. Subscribe. And to stay up to date, sign up to our Morning Edition newsletter to receive a summary of the day's most important news in your inbox every morning. Links are in the show. Notes. I'm Samantha Selinger. Morris. Thanks for listening.