From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age. This is the morning edition. I'm Julia Katzel, filling in for Samantha Selinger. Morris. It's Wednesday, February 12th. Camping, fishing, hunting and four wheel driving are just some of the ways Aussies experience the bush every day. But there are activities that are now, according to some, under threat. New land management proposals by state governments to protect the environment have been met with fierce backlash from some Bush users, who claim the government is, quote, locking up the bush. Today, environment and climate reporter Bianca Hall on whether a balance of both environmental protection and our recreation is achievable. So, Bianca, you've been privy to some culture wars online involving recreational bush user groups. Those four wheel drivers, those who hunt and fish and they're pretty incensed about something at the moment. Can you tell me what they're upset about?

From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age. This is the morning edition. I'm Julia Katzel, filling in for Samantha Selinger. Morris. It's Wednesday, February 12th. Camping, fishing, hunting and four wheel driving are just some of the ways Aussies experience the bush every day. But there are activities that are now, according to some, under threat. New land management proposals by state governments to protect the environment have been met with fierce backlash from some Bush users, who claim the government is, quote, locking up the bush. Today, environment and climate reporter Bianca Hall on whether a balance of both environmental protection and our recreation is achievable. So, Bianca, you've been privy to some culture wars online involving recreational bush user groups. Those four wheel drivers, those who hunt and fish and they're pretty incensed about something at the moment. Can you tell me what they're upset about?

So national parks, we like to think of them as places we can go bushwalking and reconnect with nature and take our kids. But they've been the focus of a bit of a culture war lately, which would probably come as a surprise to a lot of people who enjoy using them for some background in Victoria. The state government, the then Andrews government, announced the phase out of native logging by the 1st of January this year. That came with a nearly $900 million package to support timber workers exiting the industry, and also to look at how to transform the former state forests into future use. Some of that could be national parks, some of it could be state forests. A similar issue is playing out in New South Wales as well, where the Minns government has promised before the last election to election to establish a Great Koala National Park in state forests that are currently logged. So the Victorian government established a Great Outdoors Task Force to examine the future use and management of these forests. And then the backlash began.

So national parks, we like to think of them as places we can go bushwalking and reconnect with nature and take our kids. But they've been the focus of a bit of a culture war lately, which would probably come as a surprise to a lot of people who enjoy using them for some background in Victoria. The state government, the then Andrews government, announced the phase out of native logging by the 1st of January this year. That came with a nearly $900 million package to support timber workers exiting the industry, and also to look at how to transform the former state forests into future use. Some of that could be national parks, some of it could be state forests. A similar issue is playing out in New South Wales as well, where the Minns government has promised before the last election to election to establish a Great Koala National Park in state forests that are currently logged. So the Victorian government established a Great Outdoors Task Force to examine the future use and management of these forests. And then the backlash began.

Melbourne hundreds gathered from all corners of Victoria to scream hands off our state forests!

Melbourne hundreds gathered from all corners of Victoria to scream hands off our state forests!

This government locked us down. Now they want to lock us out. And I say enough is enough.

This government locked us down. Now they want to lock us out. And I say enough is enough.

The various groups are opposing the push to turn state forests into national parks, because they think that they're going to be locked out of these areas.

The various groups are opposing the push to turn state forests into national parks, because they think that they're going to be locked out of these areas.

Demonstrators at Drouin fear that will stop them from camping, hunting or accessing those areas altogether.

Demonstrators at Drouin fear that will stop them from camping, hunting or accessing those areas altogether.

What other culture have you got in Australia? This is it.

What other culture have you got in Australia? This is it.

Let's put it to bed.

Let's put it to bed.

So in Victoria, there's a motley crew, as I've described them, of gold prospectors, four wheel drive enthusiasts, shooters, fishers, horse riders and other bush users groups. They're also being heavily backed nationwide by the Electrical Trades Union. We have seen a number of online petitions. The most recent has attracted 34,000 signatures. This is the biggest petition in Victorian parliamentary history. It actually is bigger than the 1891 seminal petition in support of women's suffrage. If you can believe that.

So in Victoria, there's a motley crew, as I've described them, of gold prospectors, four wheel drive enthusiasts, shooters, fishers, horse riders and other bush users groups. They're also being heavily backed nationwide by the Electrical Trades Union. We have seen a number of online petitions. The most recent has attracted 34,000 signatures. This is the biggest petition in Victorian parliamentary history. It actually is bigger than the 1891 seminal petition in support of women's suffrage. If you can believe that.

Wow.

Wow.

I mean, there is a real culture war aspect to this as well. In some of the more fringy elements of the debate, we've had people recommending everyone raise the Australian flag in their front yard. There's been people advocating a withdrawal from the United Nations. Perhaps that's a little bit more fringy and accusing greenies of trying to lock up the bush. There's also been some backing by groups including the Freedom Party of Australia and Advance Australia. So there definitely are groups trying to whip up a culture war here.

I mean, there is a real culture war aspect to this as well. In some of the more fringy elements of the debate, we've had people recommending everyone raise the Australian flag in their front yard. There's been people advocating a withdrawal from the United Nations. Perhaps that's a little bit more fringy and accusing greenies of trying to lock up the bush. There's also been some backing by groups including the Freedom Party of Australia and Advance Australia. So there definitely are groups trying to whip up a culture war here.

And misinformation can be central to some of these campaigns, which is what we saw in another campaign against Great Northern Beer. So can you tell me more about that case?

And misinformation can be central to some of these campaigns, which is what we saw in another campaign against Great Northern Beer. So can you tell me more about that case?

Yeah, this was a good one. So Great Northern Beer launched a outdoors for a cause campaign, was heavily marketed.

Yeah, this was a good one. So Great Northern Beer launched a outdoors for a cause campaign, was heavily marketed.

By Great Northern Brewing Co. The beer for Up Here.

By Great Northern Brewing Co. The beer for Up Here.

It aimed to match donations to buy private land holdings and turn them into national parks for public use. An online campaign by detractors accused the brewer of going woke and trying to lock up state forests and turn them into national parks. So it was clearly misinformation, but that didn't stop anyone from getting excited about it online.

It aimed to match donations to buy private land holdings and turn them into national parks for public use. An online campaign by detractors accused the brewer of going woke and trying to lock up state forests and turn them into national parks. So it was clearly misinformation, but that didn't stop anyone from getting excited about it online.

One of Australia's most popular beer brands has come under fire this week for its woke advertising campaign, leaving customers outraged.

One of Australia's most popular beer brands has come under fire this week for its woke advertising campaign, leaving customers outraged.

What the bloody hell is Great Northern thinking back in the idea of locking up the bush? Um, so I can tell you now, I won't be drinking Great Northern from now on. And, um. This used to be my favorite beer before you went. Whoa.

What the bloody hell is Great Northern thinking back in the idea of locking up the bush? Um, so I can tell you now, I won't be drinking Great Northern from now on. And, um. This used to be my favorite beer before you went. Whoa.

People filmed themselves backing their enormous yurts over six packs of Great Northern beer. They filmed themselves tipping the beer out. They said they would never drink the beer again. Funnily enough, Great Northern Beer markets itself as an outdoors kind of beer to take fishing and camping. They've got all the associated merch. The CEO of Carlton and United Breweries subsequently left the company after the brouhaha, but a spokesperson for Asahi told Adnews his departure was unrelated to the online storm, but people online feel they got a scalp out of that one.

People filmed themselves backing their enormous yurts over six packs of Great Northern beer. They filmed themselves tipping the beer out. They said they would never drink the beer again. Funnily enough, Great Northern Beer markets itself as an outdoors kind of beer to take fishing and camping. They've got all the associated merch. The CEO of Carlton and United Breweries subsequently left the company after the brouhaha, but a spokesperson for Asahi told Adnews his departure was unrelated to the online storm, but people online feel they got a scalp out of that one.

So these proposals by both state governments, they're looking at converting what were state forests into national parks and essentially limiting some of the activities for bush users. So what are the major differences between a national park and a state forest? And is this claim of locking up the bush accurate or not?

So these proposals by both state governments, they're looking at converting what were state forests into national parks and essentially limiting some of the activities for bush users. So what are the major differences between a national park and a state forest? And is this claim of locking up the bush accurate or not?

Well, this is a tricky one because what you can and can't do in a national park depends on the national park. So in Kosciuszko, in New South Wales, for example, you can hunt deer if you have a licence. In Victoria, in some national parks you can also hunt, but you can't hunt at Wilsons prom, for example. In a lot of national parks, you can drive your four wheel drive on roads, and in some national parks, you can drive a four wheel drive off road. But it really does depend on the park itself.

Well, this is a tricky one because what you can and can't do in a national park depends on the national park. So in Kosciuszko, in New South Wales, for example, you can hunt deer if you have a licence. In Victoria, in some national parks you can also hunt, but you can't hunt at Wilsons prom, for example. In a lot of national parks, you can drive your four wheel drive on roads, and in some national parks, you can drive a four wheel drive off road. But it really does depend on the park itself.

So would you say that the national park status does mean more environmental protection? Is one managed better than the other?

So would you say that the national park status does mean more environmental protection? Is one managed better than the other?

Well, exactly. I mean, this is the point of a national park is to protect endangered and imperiled flora and fauna. So, for example, in Victoria, we have mountain ash forests, which are one of the most dense carbon sinks in the world. They're the tallest flowering plant in the world. They are absolutely beautiful, and they provide crucial habitat for greater gliders and sugar gliders, which rely on the hollows in old growth forests for their for their homes. If they don't have old forests, they just become extinct. And as we all know, koalas are threatened all over the country. The Great Koala National Park in New South Wales could link up a bunch of different state forests and different parks to create almost a super national park that would give koalas a big area to roam. So national parks are really, really important thing for protecting our beloved native wildlife.

Well, exactly. I mean, this is the point of a national park is to protect endangered and imperiled flora and fauna. So, for example, in Victoria, we have mountain ash forests, which are one of the most dense carbon sinks in the world. They're the tallest flowering plant in the world. They are absolutely beautiful, and they provide crucial habitat for greater gliders and sugar gliders, which rely on the hollows in old growth forests for their for their homes. If they don't have old forests, they just become extinct. And as we all know, koalas are threatened all over the country. The Great Koala National Park in New South Wales could link up a bunch of different state forests and different parks to create almost a super national park that would give koalas a big area to roam. So national parks are really, really important thing for protecting our beloved native wildlife.

We'll be right.

We'll be right.

Back.

Back.

Bianca. Central to the campaigners argument is that locking up public forests would actually lead to a risk of bushfires, and would place the environment in greater peril. Is there any truth to that claim?

Bianca. Central to the campaigners argument is that locking up public forests would actually lead to a risk of bushfires, and would place the environment in greater peril. Is there any truth to that claim?

So to get into the weeds of the argument, as you might say, a lot of what you see in state forests is actually quite denuded vegetation. You'll see a lot of empty undergrowth with some trees, but in a national park you might see a lot more dense vegetation. And that's partly because they're not used so much. But also national parks are created for their own protection there to protect the animals that live within them. And they're protecting the forests. So a big complaint by people who are opposed to national parks is that the national park allegedly gets left to build up the undergrowth, builds up a lot. People aren't allowed to take firewood out of there to use to burn in their own homes. And so the argument goes that they become absolute fire traps. I think it's safe to say that that is fairly solidly misinformation. Forest ecologists and conservationists will say that the thing that is leading to more frequent and more high intensity bushfires isn't a build up of growth. It is climate change. It is climate change that's fuelling a drying out of vegetation. It's climate change that's fuelling higher winds. And they say that when you don't have the understory of wet forest to keep a forest protected, then you get higher intensity bushfires. What is actually happening in a lot of national parks, and also, you'd have to say in state forests, is that state governments probably don't have the money or the resources to look after them, as well as they should be being looked after. And Bush users, groups and conservationists are actually united on this point that they would like to see more resources going into managing these areas better.

So to get into the weeds of the argument, as you might say, a lot of what you see in state forests is actually quite denuded vegetation. You'll see a lot of empty undergrowth with some trees, but in a national park you might see a lot more dense vegetation. And that's partly because they're not used so much. But also national parks are created for their own protection there to protect the animals that live within them. And they're protecting the forests. So a big complaint by people who are opposed to national parks is that the national park allegedly gets left to build up the undergrowth, builds up a lot. People aren't allowed to take firewood out of there to use to burn in their own homes. And so the argument goes that they become absolute fire traps. I think it's safe to say that that is fairly solidly misinformation. Forest ecologists and conservationists will say that the thing that is leading to more frequent and more high intensity bushfires isn't a build up of growth. It is climate change. It is climate change that's fuelling a drying out of vegetation. It's climate change that's fuelling higher winds. And they say that when you don't have the understory of wet forest to keep a forest protected, then you get higher intensity bushfires. What is actually happening in a lot of national parks, and also, you'd have to say in state forests, is that state governments probably don't have the money or the resources to look after them, as well as they should be being looked after. And Bush users, groups and conservationists are actually united on this point that they would like to see more resources going into managing these areas better.

Yeah. And so you spoke before about this Bush user group amassing, you know, tens of thousands of signatures in its petition against national parks in Victoria. But other polling tells a different story. Can you tell me about that?

Yeah. And so you spoke before about this Bush user group amassing, you know, tens of thousands of signatures in its petition against national parks in Victoria. But other polling tells a different story. Can you tell me about that?

Yeah, correct. So Monash University conducted a pretty widespread survey in November and December. They polled about three times the number of people that would typically be polled in a Newspoll, for example, 3500 people for the Biodiversity Council of Australia. They found that 72% of people supported establishing new national parks, and that's to protect natural and cultural values, while 5% of people were opposed. So that is a clear majority. It's also more common for people who vote left to support new national parks. The overwhelming majority, I think it was 82% of Greens voters supported them, but that's still compared with 61% of nationals voters. So it's a clear majority.

Yeah, correct. So Monash University conducted a pretty widespread survey in November and December. They polled about three times the number of people that would typically be polled in a Newspoll, for example, 3500 people for the Biodiversity Council of Australia. They found that 72% of people supported establishing new national parks, and that's to protect natural and cultural values, while 5% of people were opposed. So that is a clear majority. It's also more common for people who vote left to support new national parks. The overwhelming majority, I think it was 82% of Greens voters supported them, but that's still compared with 61% of nationals voters. So it's a clear majority.

So, Bianca, this is a real challenge for state governments going ahead in Victoria, managing land that was once used for logging and in New South Wales, attempting to save the endangered koala. So how do we achieve a balance here in allowing both nature to be experienced while also protecting the environment?

So, Bianca, this is a real challenge for state governments going ahead in Victoria, managing land that was once used for logging and in New South Wales, attempting to save the endangered koala. So how do we achieve a balance here in allowing both nature to be experienced while also protecting the environment?

Well, this is the central question, isn't it? And I think one thing that's important to remember is that people aren't locked out of national parks. We are encouraged as Australians to get out into our national parks and to enjoy the spaces and to, you know, really take those moments, but to do it in a respectful way that is gentle on the environment. And national parks are areas where some really delicate landscapes and native animals are trying to be protected. If you want to go and drive your ute on four wheel drive tracks, there are places to do that. But there are also places where you can go out and take nothing but a backpack and your runners and go and, you know, climb a mountain and commune with nature and leave nothing but your footprints behind.

Well, this is the central question, isn't it? And I think one thing that's important to remember is that people aren't locked out of national parks. We are encouraged as Australians to get out into our national parks and to enjoy the spaces and to, you know, really take those moments, but to do it in a respectful way that is gentle on the environment. And national parks are areas where some really delicate landscapes and native animals are trying to be protected. If you want to go and drive your ute on four wheel drive tracks, there are places to do that. But there are also places where you can go out and take nothing but a backpack and your runners and go and, you know, climb a mountain and commune with nature and leave nothing but your footprints behind.

Well, thank you so much for your time today, Bianca.

Well, thank you so much for your time today, Bianca.

Thanks so much.

Thanks so much.

Today's episode of The Morning Edition was produced by me, Julia Katzel. Our executive producer is Tami Mills. Tom McKendrick is our head of audio. The Morning Edition is a production of The Age and The Sydney Morning Herald. If you enjoy the show and want more of our journalism, subscribe to our newspapers today. It's the best way to support what we do. Search the Age or Smh.com.au. Subscribe and sign up for our Morning Edition newsletter to receive a comprehensive summary of the day's most important news, analysis and insights in your inbox every day. Links are in the show. Notes. I'm Julia Katzel. This is the morning edition. Thanks for listening.

Today's episode of The Morning Edition was produced by me, Julia Katzel. Our executive producer is Tami Mills. Tom McKendrick is our head of audio. The Morning Edition is a production of The Age and The Sydney Morning Herald. If you enjoy the show and want more of our journalism, subscribe to our newspapers today. It's the best way to support what we do. Search the Age or Smh.com.au. Subscribe and sign up for our Morning Edition newsletter to receive a comprehensive summary of the day's most important news, analysis and insights in your inbox every day. Links are in the show. Notes. I'm Julia Katzel. This is the morning edition. Thanks for listening.