Shane and Marty welcome PING Brand Ambassador Boyd Summerhays to the Tour Truck to discuss his success as a junior golfer and his path from professional golf to coaching some of world’s best players. Boyd also talks about his role as a parent to elite junior golfers and his longtime coaching relationship with PING Pro Tony Finau.
The guys from paying They've kind of showed me how much the equipment matters. I just love that I can hit any shot.
I kind of want we're gonna be able to tell some fun stories about what goes on here to help golfers play better golf.
Welcome back to the Ping Proving Grounds Podcast. I'm Shane Bacon, That's Marty Jerts, and that is Boyd Summer Hayes in the Tour truck. Boy this is a place that back in the day, maybe you came in and got your club's tinkered with, and now obviously you work with some of the best players in the world. I want to kind of go back through your journey, both as a player and now obviously a coach. But take us back to your playing days. What was it like, how many tours did you play on and when did you decide maybe to say, Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna take another path.
So golf's in my blood. My grandfather was a head golf coach at the University of Utah. My dad Lynn, my uncle Bruce Summer Hayes, who played the Champions Tour, lifetime peing player, and then my uncle Gary were all golfers. They were the captains at the University of Utah. So my dad love golf. I'm one of seven siblings. My dad had it figured out. Everybody plays golf. We got two fours on Saturday in the afternoons after school, and that's just what I knew growing up. It was just golf and family competition, and I kind of knew at a young age I was getting to the point where I wanted to do it for a living. By the time I was fourteen, I won my second Junior World. When I won at ten, I didn't I'm just just playing with my brothers and sisters and playing junior golf locally. And then once I won at fourteen, it really got me thinking, hey, I may be able to do this. And then once again at Tory Pines when I was sixteen, and by then I was looking at going to Oklahoma State with Charles how we were best buddies, and I ended up doing that, went on a two year more of a mission. That kind of set me back a little bit. But by the time I was twenty four, I had my tour card through Q School, and you know, things didn't go exactly how I had planned. Had an injury or two, made some rookie mistakes, changed all my equipment. I kind of had a mixed bag. I had some pings, I had a Cameron Putter, I had Cleveland Wedge Taylor made driver at the time, and it was like, huh, what do I do? And I signed, you know, a contract with Callaway and it got to be where I was a little bit unfamiliar with my equipment. I kind of a quite rookie mistakes and sophomore mistakes, not injuries of why I didn't succeed, But without even knowing it, I was becoming a really probable for a coach. I had had so many lessons from so many instructors trying to chase miss Oh my gosh, And it got to the point where, you know, my game kind of just slowly deteriorated. A lot of the athleticism and a lot of the natural skills I had. I just sit on a range all day and hit, hit, hit, hoping for the perfect swing or the perfect shots. And it got to the point where I, just a little bit at a time, went from the tour to the corn ferry, from the corn ferry to PJ tor Canada, and that was the last place I played, and I had a great time. Took the family up to PJ Tour Canada. Preston hung out with me. He was nine.
He was nine.
He hung out with me every second of every day on the PJ tor Canda, except Grace's birthday. Mom said, hey, you're staying home to celebrate Grace's birthday. And at that point, when I went back, they started school. I was starting to drive to the airport, Sky Harbor and Phoenix, and I was like, I'm not playing well enough to justify this, and my kids are getting so pressing, was getting so into the game. I just turned around Withdrew and stopped doing it full time. And I couldn't imagine at that time that I would be a golf coach, because when you grow up in the game and you're just a player and you've had success, you just see yourself as that. And I remember some of the I was really close to, kind of like a life coach. I was so mad when I was done playing. You just feel like you didn't meet expectations, and you're a little bit frustrating. The last place you think you want to be as on a golf course more. You just want to just kind of hide run away, and you know, you didn't apecations you had And my friend said, hey, I know you're pissed off right now, but you and your family have been in the game your whole life. I think that's your number one skill set. And I couldn't be more grateful that he pushed me that direction, because once I started to coach, it's never the same buzz as you doing it, but it's different, like it's very rewarding. And then, especially once my kids started to take after, you know, and fall in love with the game, I thought, Wow, all the ups and downs of playing, you know, going to all these instructors, reading all the books and chasing I'm like, wow, I really am made to be a coach. Coaching was in my family too, and I couldn't be more grateful that I'm here sitting in the truck. I wouldn't have expected it, but the place's coaching has taken me. There are places where I would have dreamed was going as a player. It was just different than how I thought it was going to be.
You mentioned winning two junior Worlds. I think it's Boyd and Tiger.
Is that right?
Is that that that's the list.
I believe he won five. I won three, Yeah, sixteen.
Where'd you go on your mission? I went to Argentina, Argentina, And how was that experience? Because I mean, you were what have you read twenty years old?
I went when I was nineteen, So played one year at Oklahoma State, went to Argentina for two years, and when I came back. Funny story is, we're doing qualifying at Oklahoma State literally a month after I got home on my mission. And if anyone's gone to Carston Creek, you have some space to hit the fairways, but if you don't, it's just jungle. It's just the oak trees, and you're not chipping out. It's just a penalty shot. And I remember doing a qualifying on the back nine and I shot fifty and Coach shoulder kind of disgusted. He's like, you're out of here. You're not going the next night. And so it was a cool experience getting my game back to where then I could go to Q school and get through. But yeah, I think I learned appreciation just for life on my mission. The northern parts of Argentina are incredibly poor, and the people are happy and sometimes over here we have so much and we're not happy. So that's probably the long lasting memory of those two years is just gratitude everywhere I go. You just when you're seeing that day after day, the struggle of just to get bread and they had mate. It was tea that kind of pressed their appetite and the most lovely people. So that will always, you know, leave an imprint of gratitude in my in my mind and heart. For those two years.
Did you play any golf in Argentina in two years?
So there was two nine hole courses and when you're thinking of golf courses, it's just pasture with some flags. And Argentinians are really short, and so that when I went to play nine holes, the clubs were so flat and so short. I'm good, I don't need to do this. The torch truck's dead, you know, no tor truck there right there to been the lost in lives for me, Boyd.
I think a fun part of your journey is like you've felt the pain of being a professional, the joys and then the pain for sure, like like the struggle of it. You've taken a lot of lessons. I think one thing I see, at least from as far as that you're you're like a holistic coach to your to the players and your players play good. You're working on mechanics, technique, strategy, life coaching. I mean, how what is your approach to your different players that you take and how do you have to cater to each each of each of the different players you know, take Tony for example. Is it more the technical side? Are you working more on the field strategy side? What's your what's your approach there?
I think exactly what you said and what I alluded to earlier. I'm you know, wise enough and humble enough to know that I didn't not have a successful career because of bad breaks and injuries. You look at Patrick Cantley, he came back from injury. Guys come back from injuries. There are so many mistakes I made that then I could help my students not make. For example, I talked about how I changed every club in the bag. Well, I was already going to go on tour and I need to get used to just being comfortable to golf courses, just fitting in with who to play practice rounds with, and.
Why change a factor that you actually already work comfortable?
There you go and so when I got and then I also from me trying to chase the perfect swing, I realized that's not the way to go. When you're working with you know, amateurs or all levels of golfers. You want to go very systematically, one thing at a time, you know, in swing thing, one thing at a time. Sure you can change setup and other things before, because that's not before you've taken the club back. But to me, when I started working with a player, I'd look and say, Okay, what have they always done in their swings that I'm not going to change, and then let's try to build pieces around it that make their swing work better. Same thing with the equipment. I had a player that Tony. He was one of the top players in the world, and he had some decisions to make as he kept up on the rise, there was an opportunity to play a different golf ball, and you know, I was the pain of me not making it. I go around to golf course all the time and think, hmmm, it's just a humbling thing, Like I just I know what I could have been and what I didn't achieve, and I'm like, we're not going there changing one piece, which is the golf ball. Is a big deal, bigger than what people think, and so I've been able to steer players away from mistakes that I personally made. Also, I think that players have come to see me because they do know that I have the background of playing whether because at some point I played some great golf and then I made a lot of mistakes. And so it's almost a two edged sword where I'm able to help players in good ways, push them the right direction that helped me and other players be successful, but also keep them away from things that are going to put them down the wrong path. And I think there's trust when a player works with someone that has been in the game, knows the torture of it, knows the ups and downs that you don't panic after two or three weeks. Well I did that as a player too on tour, get so hard on myself, so down and you're like, you just missed two or three cuts by a couple of shots. Don't make this bigger than it is. And I found myself in that rabbit hole where I just worked harder and harder and harder on my swing, when in reality it's like, you know what, you know, it's a shot. Here, go work on some web shots. You didn't get that up and down, not just look at one area, but all of them and don't panic. And I think that's helped me is just the player confiding or trusting that I'm not going to give them something crazy on a Tuesday or Wednesday work on because hey, I tried that and it looked good on film, and then you go play terrible. So I think just experience from being a player and recognizing the mistakes I made as a player has helped me coach, you know, high level players and actually average golfers alike. Don't give so much information at one time. Have a blueprint of where this thing's going, but do it one at a time, because when you fix one thing in the golf swing, it tends to clear up a couple others, and then that takes you to the next priority.
Yeah.
Yeah, I wanted to ask about Preston because I've had the pleasure of calling and covering Preston play some amazing golf and he won the Junior Am. Some of those shots he hit, you know, late in that second eighteen were some of the best shots we saw for the entire year. You're you're very open on social media and it's very impressive. I mean you, some of my favorite things on social are when your kids and family have those matches and you kind of follow along. When it's like the boy dots on the Instagram story, I know it's going to be a pretty good day. But you know, Preston is a young your kid, young man coming up in the game, and all of a sudden, he's winning these enormous national chamschampionships. He's getting to play golf on a weekly basis with Tony Finow and John Rahm. How much have you pushed Preston into that world go play with these guys as you're coming up and going to college, and how much at times do you maybe pull them away from that and say, go play with your peers, go play with your buddies. Because I can imagine if you're playing with John Ram and Tony all the time and maybe you're not beating them, or maybe you get them every now and again, it could probably be slightly demoralizing for a guy like Preston, considering how talented he is.
I look at it two ways. When you play with people that are better, two things are going to happen. Either you play with them and you see certain skill sets that wow, Okay, I'm right up to par, and then you also see areas that you're not. And so I always have encouraged my kids when you play with people that are better, you know, don't get deflated. Look for areas in your game, or learn for other players kind of the tricks of the trade that they're using. And the biggest advantage is just the comfort level if you put yourself in a situation like that. Preston was ten and eleven when he starts playing with these tour pros. You know, he was getting a bus from this, which is the exact same buzz you get on the first tee or coming down the stretch at the US Junior where you got to make some putts coming down and to really swing a match or stay ahead. And that constant competing is something I've tried to pass on to my kids. And I think one thing that helped me a lot too is my dad taught me and Daniel. My dad did some amazing things that did help us, and one of them was always competing. Every shot mattered. After school, we'd only have like an hour and fifteen minutes of daylight. We ran an oakreg country Club where they played the corn Ferry event one, two, three, and nine. We'd play two balls, it would be an eight whole tournament. We're always playing for something. Usually it was a Maverick ice cream cone, and my dad found a way, even if we were losing the bet, to create a new bet to play for it. So it was always something on the line. And I think when you're playing with people that are better than you, you naturally just want to play well, which is a good emotion and a good pressure and a good expectation. I think just that being uncomfortable all the time, it becomes normal and comfortable. And I think that's the advantage of playing for Preston, playing with Tony John Ram, he got to play with Brooks kept get age fourteen and all the tour players I taught, Wyndam Clark played you know, fifty rounds with and other players where it's like, Okay, I'm learning and grow and I see where I still got to go, but I see where I'm you know, in a good place compared to other players.
What does Preston say to you about that, because now obviously he's in college and I mean, you know, you just got he just got announced to the Walker Cup team. He's had a great freshman year obviously at ASU. What does he say to you as a dad and also as a coach about the experience as a fourteen year old and as an eleven year old and as a sixteen year old to get him set up to these types of pressure pack situations.
Yeah, he understands that it's made a huge impact. He's grateful for the opportunities he's had because we say iron sharpens iron, and when you can get with those type of players, and they're different types of players, meaning the way Tony goes about it and his demeanor is very different than John. Raum, Grayce and Cam are very much more like John, where you know, they have that quick fire and then get over it. Preston's a little bit more laid back on and off the course, more like Tony, and so he can take pieces from every player and say, hey, I actually like how John gets kind of pissed, but then he's over it. Hey, I like the composure and the and the mentality of Tony, and you kind of take, you know, pieces from each tour pro You're not trying to copy and be like another player because you you being you is a huge part of self confidence and feeling like you're doing it the right way. But I think my kids have always been learners, just trying to always you know, see little things that they do, whether it's their drills or you know what, when they get aggressive to a flag, when they play away, just they're very observant and they realize the opportunity they've had the advantage over other kids, so they try not to squander it.
Preston seems like I mean, one of the funnest things about watching him is like how many clutch putts he's already made, you know, even at eighteen at ASU to win that tournament. I mean, that was super fun to watch, boyd. Since you played the tour till now, how has the PGA tour changed? You know, athletes priority on distance. You've worked with Tony and you've kind of dialed you he already had ample distance and you work with him to put a priority on driving accuracy. Then you got, you know, your kids where you're trying to build up their speed. Right, So, in coming at it from the other angle, how's the tour changed? When what priorities are? How are you adapting to that? And implementing that with with you know, your array of students.
So they talk a lot about power and distance in the game now like it wasn't before. But when you look at some of the best players. Nick Folllow was a huge guy that was an accuracy player. Greg Norman Baumbed an incredible driver of the golf ball, Jack Nicholas, I mean, look at those quads. He had a massive advantage with distance but also height into the game, and so distance has always been My uncle Bruce was a club pro. He'd played in some major championships and some tour events, but when my dad and him got together trying to get onto the champions Tour, that was the biggest priority because my uncle was a very accurate driver of the golf ball, but he was shorter. So my uncle played a forty eight degree or forty eight short on the tour. Now it's limited now, so in my family and my dad passing it on to us, distance was a big deal. But when you speak about what's different with the tour now than before, I remember being able to go to first stage a qu school and thinking, if I just don't mess up, I'm going to get through. I'm going to get through at second. I got to play good, but I don't have to play great nowadays. The level of competition, as far as it's just the numbers, there's just so many. The great players in every generation are just great. They could hang with each other, right just based on That's all you can do is just try to be the best of your generation. But when you think of how many kids play now days because of Tiger Woods, it became so cool for athletes to play. Now, look at what they're playing for money wise, all these things are attracting athletes that would have gone into a different sport now they come into golf. You look at the height of the players on the PGA Tour compared to before. You're looking two to three inches taller from just thirty years ago, twenty years ago. You know, Tony even when he came out on the tour, it was like he really stuck out. Now you've got patent, goodzire, you've got I mean, we could go down the list, we could name twenty five thirty guys that are over six three six ' two. It's just become kind of normal, and we're attracting just athletes. And then I would say, why are kids, or why is the tour so much better now? I remember when I played the US Junior and the US Amateurs North Dakota Country Club, Waverley Country Right nowadays they're playing these amateur events at major championship courses. Junior golfer playing tour courses. I don't try to be arrogant and think, Okay, the coaching and the technology is so much better that that's why our golfers are better. When you're playing ping junior golf at age twelve thirteen, and you're playing TPC Sawgrass and you're playing sedge Fill where they play the final event of the tour season, and over and over you're playing these courses, the courses are showing the kids, hey, I got to get a little bit better. They're putting the same whole locations as the tour event. Literally, you can just take the pin sheet, whole location sheet from the tour and when Preston and Grace have played at tour courses, those are the whole locations and they get used to seeing a pin three off the edge, three over a bunker. I remember when I got my corn Faery card or Monday qualified into corn ferry events before I got my PGA Tour card. That was a huge you know, justinent I'm like, man, is that pin on the green and maybe it looks so close to the edge and so close to these exactly, So I think that's a big part of it. And then even looking at the college schedule. I playedt Oklahoma State, we would have had one of the best schedules, and I remember Rio Saiko in Vegas being one of the best courses we played. They wouldn't even play a college event there. Now, I mean the ASU started their season at Olympia Fields and they went to Aleworth, Cyprus. You're going to get better. So these kids are not only just more athletic and they're playing for so much more that is making it sexy to come into the game of golf, but they're being trained and prepared on courses that are our world class and then they show up on tour. Man, look how many kids come out of college and are winning, you know, within a week or two. It's impressive.
It's wild.
I was gonna. I wanted to ask about Tony specifically because we talk about distance, We talk about chasing distance, and so many players talk about speed training and stack system and really trying to gain distance and speed. Tony will call me outlier went the other way. Tony was the guy we interviewed Tony. I said, could you lead the PGA Tour driving distance if you wanted to? He said absolutely. He's fifty second in driving distance this season on the PGA Tour. This is a guy that came to you and went the other way. How was that conversation and how did you guys go about making more efficient and maybe not as powerful, but getting the ball back in the fairy more often.
Well, you look at strokes gained. If you have a penalty shot, that's one full shot that's going to be coming off your strokes gained. And he figured out really quick. Even when Victor Hovlin came out on tour, he was at one to seventy five ball speed, but he hit so many fairways. He was basically leading strokes gained off the tee pretty much every event he played as a rookie.
And you get to that.
Point where golf course design it starts to pinch in at that higher than one eighty five ball speed, so it's you know, it becomes counterproductive. You got to be long enough. But the more and more fairways that Tony hit. He realized when he was hitting it a little bit more crooked. We hit so many three woods off the tee his rookie year and even his second year. But as he got better and better at driving, he hit some softer drives. But he has these driver almost everywhere he can, he hits it. And then just playing out of the fairway for him, as great of an iron player as he is, that made it so much easier for him to have the bowgial avoidance. You know, when you have that occasional foul ball and you know it's going to happen, that's that's a very stressful situation. And then the one advantage of Tony hitting a little bit more crooked as a kid is I've never seen somebody that's so good at recovery shots, escape shots. So he's yeah, so it's like a brilliant combo where he drives it so straight now and yet he has the scramble game when he does mishit it. And so even when he first started hitting the ping driver, he loved being out of the fairway so much that he wasn't at the optimum you know numbers. He was hitting a driver that was spinning at twenty nine, one hundred and three thousand, and he's kept on hitting the ferries Like boyd, I can get used to this, I can score from here. And now he's gotten down to the better spin numbers, better launch as he's just become a better driver of the ball. But yeah, there is that fine line that if you can't control your ball at the higher speeds, then it is counterproductive. But I think the stats are a little misleading. When you get these guys that are hitting it pretty far and they're showing that they're hitting fifty two to fifty five percent of the fairways, it doesn't mean they're missing them by twenty yards off the side. They're closer to the edges, And then we know strokes gained approach for every you know, twenty thirty yards you're closer, it's already negated by hitting it in the rough. You're still going to hit it just as close as you would have if you laid thirty yards back. But the days you get hot and you hit that ten to eleven twelve fairways, you know massive advantage.
We're looking at Tony stats, he is the closest proximity of the whole. The number one is strokes gained out of the rough? Yeah, you know, and he plays our blueprint and irons right, which are small? Now, boyd, One question I want to ask you is that marriage. And a lot of our club fitters always ask us this like the marriage of fitting and teaching. Right, and Tony, you've met you. You guys made a lot of changes. For example, too, is iron lying goals over the past couple of years? Right? Is it? Is it you coming in say hey, we need to go flatter more upright? Do you change the clubs first, do you work on a swing first? Or both? Those things happen simultaneously.
So when I coach, I go in this order equipment number one that could be your body, Okay, you might have a physical limitation. Our body and mind are our two biggest pieces of equipment. And then you go to your actual golf equipment. As you guys know, Man, you've got grip size, shaft, kick points, flexes, light, angles, all these different factors that come into play. And I think if players aren't, you know, checking those things often, it can get off. And I think when I was talking about, hey, players are playing harder courses and there's higher competition that make some better. Preston and Grace and Cam at age ten and eleven, they were already coming into peeing every quarter to make sure things are right. And it's even a little bit more frequent. It's pressting, and Grace and Cam have gotten better, and so I don't want to be on the range trying to fix something that actually we could go in that first step of equipment. Then I go to pre shot routine, then set up, then in swing, then drills, and so I understand the importance of equipment. Because Tony's not a complainer. My kids aren't a complainer, and sometimes that works a little bit in their disadvantage, because hey, get into ping and pressing. Just went yesterday, He's got he's going to Saint Andrews and he noticed the driver isn't you know, doing exactly what he wanted. He went in and he it came to his mind because he likes to go in that same order. So you a great player will adapt to their equipment, even if it's slightly not fit for them. They'll figure it out when there actually is a more optimal way. So with Tony, as his swing changed, we had to always constantly change little tweaks in his his equipment, else it wouldn't give him the maximum gain.
Yeah, I have to do that with myself. I'll schedule a time to go get fit so I can get that outside perspective because I might struggle to Oh, it's me, it's me, it's me, and then I could fix it with the club. Yeah, for sure, you know what I mean. One of the fun things we've done with Tony two is work on his potting setup. Right, what have you guys done there? We developed some cool tools, like with our ipaying that live locked in live feature. What are some some things you've done on his putting setup that you guys work on.
So he's won five times with the PLD and he hasn't switched it. And that's one thing is once you find something that you like in equipment. That's one of his goals each year the last two years is don't switch putters because then he can diagnose when he gets off. If that makes sense. When you're trying to change, you know, the equipment every week, there's a eventually it is the Indian not the ED. But you know, Tony has a little bit different set up. Even the commentaries will be like, man, his hands are so low and you're thinking he has won four times in a year, like it's working for him. Everyone sees a little bit different. It's kind of like that Sevy biosteris where he had the toe quite a bit up in the air. Wyndam Clark has the toe quite a bit up in the air, and he just feels he has such long arms that he has to let him hang else he would be he would be actually fit. So that's a cool thing with a fitting process. He's six four. People think that he plays longer clubs. He doesn't because his wrist to floor the way his arms he's super long. So he plays standard link clubs and he has, you know, a little longer putter, but that he grips down to the equivalent of what would probably be a thirty three inch putter. So that's a little bit of why he has the setup. How he does is he feels a lot of tension when he raises his hands to get a little higher, and so everybody's a little bit different for sure.
Yeah, well, boy, we appreciate the time. I know you kind of go actually work with Tony on the golf course. By the way, I always know that you're in the All Black, even in Atlanta when it's gonna be on Degrease, still going all black. But we appreciate the time. I really do enjoy following you and the family and what you guys do. It's an easy group to root for, So continue the success and keep rocket and rolling.
Thanks Shane, Thanks Marty, and I appreciate you guys a ton Like I said, my kids have been coming into Ping since they were very, very young. And one of the greatest things about Ping is, you know, my brother was with Ping, my uncle was with Ping, I played Ping. All the players of Oklahoma State played Ping. Ping is a very loyal company. It doesn't matter how you're playing. Once they try to, you know, once they choose to support you, they do and it's made a huge difference to my kids. That was actually a driving factor of why my kids stayed and played at Arizona State is because one of the things that helped them get there was the support they had from from Ping, and they always wanted that access to go down the road and double check things. So we appreciate all the support from Ping, from my family and obviously Tony and the clients.
That yeah, easy to drive down the street and get you, yeah, you so much. This is the Ping podcast