Pride can ruin a good thing. Perry admits it was ruining his relationship with Shawna.
So often when we feel offended, we get defensive and power up. But in scripture we’re told, “If you’ve got it in you, get along with everybody”. Do we have it in us to get along with everybody?
It was an April evening of Perry’s sophomore year at Olivet. He was driving back to campus from his girlfriend’s house when he saw a farmer driving his tractor in his field and it made him think, “My life needs to change.”
Within days of being diagnosed with a brain tumor Shawna’s friend courageously shared she was choosing to praise God whether she was healed or not. Like Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, we are not alone in the fire. It’s Jesus WITH US who gives us the courage to say, “Even if…I will praise God.”
Lastly, financial advisor, Rob West, of Faith and Finance Live, imparts wisdom regarding lending money to friends, budgeting that will last beyond most New Year’s resolutions, and whether or not now is a good time to buy a house.
It's the Perry and Shaunna podcast on the real life journey with you, reminding you that you are ABBA's beloved child and that Jesus has called you into his massive mission to heal the world.
If you've got it in, you get along with everybody. One of my kids is a teenager. They, you know, they had this sassy little response to everything. I just remember this whole season of life where every time, you know, somebody would say something, they would throw it right back, like, um, someone would say, you're so slow. And she would say, you're so slow. Or, you know, you're a piece of work. You're a piece of work. Like it didn't matter what you said. It came right back at you like a boomerang. And it's very, you know, immature, very teenager sassiness kind of thing. But I think that we as adults do this way more often than we care to admit. Somebody throws something at us, Empanadas, and it's like our knee jerk reaction to just spit it right back out at them, give them what they're given to you.
It's pride in me and it's defensiveness. Defensiveness comes out of my pride. Yeah.
For sure. I think that's, you know, part of our sinful nature. But I have a friend who does not do this. Let me kind of explain or give you a picture of what it looks like. Okay. So there's a bunch of us, and we're in this conversation together, and someone made a comment that was abrasive. It was accusatory. It was like them are fighting words right there. And my friend did not match the energy, did not power up in any way, shape or form. They just diffused the moment with this really calm response. Like not defensive, just kind of what they did. What I felt like happened in the room was they just took all that negative energy and robbed it of its power, and it just like fell to the ground. And I was like, how did you do that?
I love your sound effects.
I don't even know what I did. Yeah, but I was like, how did you do that? That is a gift to be able to do that. Romans 1217 says, don't hit back. This is the the message version. Eugene Peterson said it this way. Don't hit back. Discover beauty in everyone. If you've got it in you, get along with everybody. Don't insist on getting even. That's not for you to do. I'll do the judging, says God. I'll take care of it. In quotes, says God. I'll take care of it.
Yeah. How do you think you get there? To be that kind of person that doesn't have the teenager reaction, right? But answers. Uh, a gentle answer turns away wrath. I think that's one of the proverbs.
Yeah, I think for my friend, I've actually kind of wondered this in my head. Like, is that his superpower? He just can do that. And I know that's not true. I know he walks closely with the Lord, and he has been shaped by the Lord to be able to respond in that way. So I do think that, you know, in order to. Well, in answering your question, how do you do that in answering my question, how do you do that? I think first and foremost, it's it's drawing near to the Lord and letting his presence influence how we respond. You know, knowing for me personally, the way that I would phrase it is saying like knowing Jesus, you're right here, right now. And so I'm utterly safe. I don't have to defend myself. I don't have to toss this back because I'm okay. And so it can just fall to the and I don't have to receive it. I think that's part of like, you can't toss back something that you didn't catch. You don't have to catch it. You don't have to take it. You can just let it fall to the ground.
Just speaking of relationships generally, I know that it's pride in my heart. I just mentioned this, but it's pride in my heart that keeps me from really getting along with people. And last year I just went through a lot of hardship, and God was in that process pushing pride out of my heart. And one of the relationships that it's affected most is doing this show with you, because there was a lot of pride in me that was I saw creating the friction that was happening. And so I'm just grateful that and it's affected other relationships as well. But man, we spend a lot of time together. Shawna spent a.
Lot of time together here at the mic here across from the from each other talking about like really vulnerable things to write because we're talking about our relationship with the Lord and what we're learning and how we're growing and and right.
Now, our relationship.
Yeah. It's good. It's good. And it needs to be good for us to be able to have these conversations. But thank you. Thank you for sharing that. I mean, that's just a perfect example of vulnerability in the midst of it, I think so much. And we could just go another hour on this. But so much of the way that respond has the way that we respond in life has to do with feeling self-protective and feeling fearful of like, what if I get? For me, it's what if I get taken for granted? What if I get taken advantage of? Like I have to protect myself. I have to defend myself against that. For me.
It's I want to win.
Mm. Yeah. But we have these so like yeah I would. My question to me and to you is why why do I feel like I can't be taken for granted. Why do I feel like I'm going to be taken advantage of? And for you, why why do you have to win?
It probably goes to my identity. You know that winning equals self-worth. Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, and as we get to, like, we ask those why questions and then another why and then another why, we're probably going to identify lies that we've believed that shape our behavior. And so I do think that so much of being able to get along with everybody has to do with knowing who we truly are in Jesus. God help me not to react to what's coming at me, but to respond as you would in my conversations, in my relationships. Because we do have it in us to get along with everybody. Because we've got you, Lord. Your Holy Spirit is in us, and we don't have to fight back. We can trust you to take care of it.
The Lord always leaves the light on for you and me. I remember I was, uh, into my sophomore year of college. I was at Olivet College, and I was. It was in April. So I was getting ready to come home to Sheboygan. And I was in a relationship that just wasn't going anywhere. It wasn't anybody's fault. It just needed to end. But I was driving home from my girlfriend's house and and I looked out in the field. It was it was still kind of light, but out in the field there was this tractor and it was a farmer doing his work kind of late in the evening. And that just inspired me, man. It just had this sense of, I don't know, faithfulness of of just steadiness of morality, of character, of being the kind of person I wanted to be. I don't know, does that make sense?
Yeah. I mean, specifically around the circumstances that you were walking through, you know, you're going through this breakup, you're driving and it just breakups. You know, maybe it's been a while since you've experienced one of those, but man, that is heartache. And it can feel like things are coming to an end. And to me, it sounds like it was what you needed to keep going. Like, I'm going to keep pressing in.
I think more. It was it was showing me that I needed to become that faithful farmer because I was being I was being unfaithful, I wasn't being. There were a lot of things in my life that I needed to let go of and really begin to pursue the Lord. And that tractor in the field was just a call for me to really repent of a lot of sin and begin to follow Jesus with my whole heart, and to pursue hearing him say one day to me, well done, good and faithful servant.
It's so good. I think so often at least this happens in my life just a lot. God will allow me to experience something in the physical right here on earth, something very tangible, so that he can reveal something bigger, something spiritual, something of him. So and that's what exactly what you just described. Like seeing this farmer in a tractor in a field late at night, inspired you towards who God created you to be and to step into things way bigger than just the field being taken care of?
Yeah. Isn't it cool how God speaks through everything? I mean, if we're listening. If we're looking.
Oh, come on, I just read revelation and, like revelation two three. Like over and over and over again. For you who have ears to hear, if you have ears to hear. And it seems like a silly phrase because it's like most of us do have ears to hear, but it's not about, you know, what we're audibly taking in. It's about leaning in to what the spirit is saying and paying attention to what God is doing, even in the midst.
And maybe the Holy Spirit is speaking to you now that there are things in your life you got to let go of in 2025, they're holding you down. They're holding you back. They're they're messing up your life. They're ripping you off. And you get a chance. You get a chance to turn and to move toward the father who's on the porch. The light is on the porch. And as soon as the father sees you turning to you, he's running right at you.
When we praise God, when we fix our eyes on who he is, and we give him glory for who he is, it changes the perspective on what's going on in our world, in our circumstances. A few years ago, a friend of mine was diagnosed with a brain tumor. She got this news like late in the week. I want to say it was like Friday that she got word that she had this brain tumor and and it needed to be it needed to be dealt with immediately. She needed to have surgery right away. Sunday morning she was at church. So like 48 hours later, she was at church. And I was like, how are you doing? Like, we're praying for you. And she's like, God's got me. God's got this. Like, I believe that he can heal me of this tumor if the surgery doesn't even happen. I believe that he can see me through the surgery. I believe that he can take me home, but I my eyes are fixed directly on Jesus, and I'm just praising him through this thing.
I love that so much. Even if I know the Lord can heal me right now, he can take care of it right now, but if he takes me home, that's even better. You know, like Paul said, to live is Christ. To die is gain. And he said, it's really better to go to be to Paradise with Jesus. But I want to stay because I want to be able to help you. That's what I hear in this story.
Yeah, it makes me think of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. Even if always does. Right? Because they're like, yeah, we're not going to worship you. But, you know, if you need to throw us in the fire, go ahead. We're going to keep praising God. And even if we burn up in that fire, we're still going to keep praising God. And then there was three of them, right? But there was the fourth man that showed up in the fire. And that fourth man is the Word of God. Jesus showed up in the fire with them, and she was certain that no matter what went down, whatever fire she had to walk through, that the King of Kings was going to be with her. And so she was going to be okay, whether she was okay and had long life on this side or okay. And began eternity with him. She's going to be okay.
What happened?
She's okay.
Okay. Like okay. On this side.
On this side. All right.
When we left Arizona and we moved to Michigan, we lost. We lost on that house. We I mean, it was like 2010. It was the worst. We sold that house for less than what we bought it for. And we were in trouble. And we needed to make this move to Michigan and praise Jesus, from whom all blessings flow. My in-laws said, we're going to help you get into that house in Michigan. So they, you know, floated us alone. And we were so incredibly grateful for that. We've got a question for you in regards to extending a loan to other believers. The question is, in light of Deuteronomy 15, is it okay for Christians to charge each other interest on a debt that they may have between each other and if so, what is a reasonable amount?
Yeah, it's a great question. And I think the spirit of what we're reading here in Deuteronomy is around seeking the welfare of others over personal gain, which is really the central idea. So what would be a way to honor our fellow brother or sister in Christ and serve them well? And I would say, you know, being able to extend either a loan interest free or even better yet, making it a gift for somebody who's in a time of need would be the ideal situation. Deuteronomy 15 talks about the year of jubilee, or the year of release, when the debts among the Israelites were forgiven every seventh year that was planned, and it was known, and it was just a part of the mosaic law. Uh, Deuteronomy 23 is where it says, you know, don't you should not charge interest on loans to your brother or interest on money. Interest on food. Interest on anything. So I think we could apply that principle here. But the overriding idea, again, is around, I think, seeking the welfare of others over personal gain. You know, this is interestingly, the most downloaded and streamed podcast of faith and finance of all times is on this question. Should I lend to family and friends? Which is just so interesting to me. And you know, it's more than a financial question. It's really a relational one. At its core, I mean, God's word is clear that, you know, it says in, in Deuteronomy 15, let him to lend him sufficient for his need. It says in Matthew five, give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who should borrow from you. But I think what we also need to realize is, you know, there needs to be a genuine need, and lending should help, not enable poor financial choices. So we need to discern Is there a real need? Can they realistically pay the loan? And could I help in other ways, including could I make it a gift? Because the last thing we would want to do is have money, get in the way and create a strain in the relationship.
We're talking with Rob West. He's the president of Kingdom Advisors. He's also the host of Faith and finance live here at Moody Radio at 4:00 on the weekdays. And Rob, in regards to what you just said, like, personally, my husband and I made a decision to loan a friend some money, and in retrospect, I wish we had just decided to give it as a gift because it turned out that the money never came back our way, and it caused for me internal stress and hardship in the relationship. And actually even like, you know, talking to God about it and being like, you know, that we need this and, and, you know, this isn't working well. And so it helped us to learn for the future how we would handle situations like that. But I think there's a real There's so much wisdom in saying, if you have the money to be able to be without, you know, could you give it as a gift?
Yes. Because I think you're exactly right. And so often, Shauna, that's the way that it turns out. Because here's the reality. If you know they don't have the means, their promises are going to often fall short despite their best intentions. And why jeopardize the relationship? Because the relationship is far more important and we realize we may not actually be helping. We may be just enabling them to continue to make poor choices. And we certainly don't want to do that either.
So this law from Moses in Deuteronomy, you know, is was written for the Israelites. You know, that's right. When you lend, don't charge any interest. Does that apply to our relationships now?
Yeah, I mean, not as a one for one, but I think just like anything in God's Word, there's wisdom there. And so I think we can pull that forward and say, even though this is not for us, it was written at a different time for a different group of people. I think this idea that we should put the relationship over the finances is one that we absolutely should still apply. And I think you could draw the connection from that and just say, if I'm going to help out a brother, why would I charge them interest? And if you can, you know not, then great.
You know. And the heart just has to be man. I want to bless. Yeah. I want to bless people like we just we were able to, you know, with cash because we saved for a long time replace our Prius and get a brand new Prius. But we gave our daughter Kaylee and our son in law, Emery, a great deal on our previous Prius, if that makes sense. Because because we just want to bless. And it's not just for close family members. We want to bless people who have needs.
Yeah, it's exactly right. And so I think what an opportunity to be able to step into a situation where you've prayed about it, you've used your discernment, you believe the situation is right and actually going is going to be helpful long term and not cause more hurt long term by perpetuating these decisions. And for you to be able to say, hey, I want to just bless you with this gift, no strings attached. You don't have to repay it. Now, all of a sudden, you've strengthened the relationship and you know you've not created the situation that could ultimately result in what you experienced. Where there's hurt feelings.
Yeah, yeah. Pain in your heart. How many of your New Year's resolutions make it to the end of the year? I tell you what, here for accountability, I'm going to share with you New Year's resolution that I have made this year is I am going to drink more water. Oh, I should mention it was also my New Year's resolution last year and the year before that, and the year before that, and the year before that. Every January I have to decide I'm gonna drink more water because it never makes it to the end of the year. I think New Year's resolutions can kind of go that way. Rob, when it comes to budget, there's a lot of folks who are saying, hey, it's a brand new year, I'm going to use my finances better. I'm going to have a better idea of where my money is going. How do we make that last into February and man, into December?
Yeah, it is such a good question. And you're exactly right. This is near the top of the list in terms of New Year's resolutions. Every year I want to get on top of my finances. Now, for some, that's I'm going to pay down debt once and for all. And for others, it's. No I want to give more generously and and yet others, it's just this idea of I've never been able to make a budget work, and I want to give every dollar a name. I want to make sure my money is going to the places I ultimately want it to go. And with everything costing more, it's more important than ever that we do this. And so yeah, I think we need to overcome maybe some misconceptions. These are almost even excuses for not budgeting if we're going to make it work. And last to your point, past February. So I think the first one is that so many people see budget as just about cutting expenses. And it's really not that. It's about prioritizing your spending. So you still have the same amount of money. You're just deciding how to spend it ahead of time, which means that you can make sure that it tells the story of what's truly most important to you. It's not just finding its way to those things that you haphazardly spent it on. And and so I think we've got to overcome that idea. I think the second one is that a budget is too rigid, and the truth is you can make adjustments to your budget and most likely you'll have to. It's a work in progress. You don't have to see it as something that's that's going to hem you in. I think there's another group of group of people that are saying, you know what? My income varies so I can't budget. And you know what? You really still can. You just have to average out your income and expenses over a longer period of time, let's say 6 or 12 months, and kind of get your savings account involved in those high months and pull out in the lower months so you can smooth out that income to make that budget work. But, you know, you really can make it work. And I think finally, it's I don't make enough to budget. And here's the reality. Everyone needs a budget. It's a decision making tool. There's a reason why multi-million dollar companies have a budget. And there's a reason why those you know, why those who are really just barely making ends meet have a budget. And it's because everybody needs a plan. Because if we aim at nothing, we'll hit it every time.
Rob West, president of Kingdom Advisors. So is there like a tool, like a budget for dummies tool that I can use?
Hey, I'm so glad you asked. Absolutely. So that's why we built the Faith VI app. Um, we've got a team of people at Faith VI, amazing developers, and all day, all they do is work on the Faith VI app. So you can have a tool in your pocket that helps you not only develop a budget and stick to it, but bring your faith in as well. That's built on the Larry Burkett envelope system, which is so key because, you know, that's worked for so many people for so long where they literally stuffed envelopes. And this is just kind of a modern, simple digital version of that.
I love that there's so much wisdom in what you just shared. I love how you shared, how having a budget is deciding how to spend your money ahead of time, and also it's choosing to have your money match your priorities. So much wisdom. And Lord, we do pray that you would just help us to use our money to to choose how our money will be spent in such a way this year, in 2025, that you would be honored and you would be Be glorified with every purchase and with every dollar saved. In Jesus name.
Maybe you'd like to buy a house this year. You just really love to get into a house. But you just wondering, is this the year to do it with the interest rates and where the interest rates are going? I know that my son Taylor and daughter in law Bri, they live in Grand Rapids. They'd love to move to Holland and buy a house in Holland, but don't know if they'll be able to do it. I think you and Lauren Ben are thinking about buying a house. Yeah, yeah.
It's certainly on the radar. And, you know, the interest rates are are really, really high. They are coming down a quarter of a percent, which isn't much, but it is traction moving downwards. Yes.
So Rob, should my daughter in law and son and Ben and his wife try to buy a house this year?
Yeah. Here it is. Maybe. And here's why. You know, it really comes down to market or excuse me, financial readiness, I think, is the first thing. You know, can they put that 20% down payment down to avoid private mortgage insurance and have some equity? Do they have emergency fund, you know, do they have any consumer debt like credit cards they need to take care of. And then secondly, what about that monthly payment. Because the tendency in a market like this, where housing prices are so high is to stretch and buy a house you can't afford and then be left with that month after month, year after year, just really causing some struggles in your financial life. And so that rule of thumb is if you can get that principal interest, taxes and insurance payment, that mortgage payment below 25% of your take home pay, you're going to be in good shape, certainly no more than 30%. So if they have the down payment, they can make sure that they find the house they're looking for and keep it within that 30% of take home pay. Then I would say there's no reason not to move ahead. I mean, housing prices are high, but they're not expected to come down. I mean, we're even though we're seeing a slowing of the increases, they're still increasing. Housing prices are expected to increase somewhere between 2 and 3% this year. One thing, though is that rates are coming down. And so it may be that year where you say, you know what, we're not quite ready on the the down payment. So we're going to continue to save for 12 months. And what you will probably find, although we don't know for sure, is that those rates will go from where they are today at around six and three quarters. We're probably going to be under six. Not much under, but we're probably at or under six by the end of the year.
So what I'm hearing you say, Rob, is, as a new homeowner, like to step into that. There's definitely some things of readiness that we want to have happen. But if you're already a homeowner and looking to maybe relocate or you have something different in mind for your housing situation, you know, you're kind of stuck between that. Oh, yay, you know, my house would sell well, but I also have to buy something. What about. What about someone in that situation?
Yeah. You know, I think that's a great point. And the nice thing about somebody who's already in the housing market is you should be able to maximize the value of the home and realize that appreciation. So now it's not as much of a bite there because you're getting top dollar coming out, and then you're rolling that into the new house. The key is just to make sure again, when you make that new purchase, if you are, let's say, you know, going from a starter home to a little bigger home, you know there's going to be more expense there. That means more maintenance depending on the age of the house. Certainly. Um, there may be more utilities. What about property insurance that may go up. So we just need to count the cost and realize that we could be adding more expense on that new home just beyond the purchase price. So I think it really does, again, come down to financial readiness and preparedness to make sure that what you're doing syncs up with your budget, because there's really three big budget busters. Number one is housing. And so we want to be careful. Number two are cars. And then the third is food which we can do more about that in the short term. But housing, once we make that decision we're stuck with it without a lot of expense.
Rob West, president of Kingdom Advisors I know you live in Atlanta, Rob, but are you going to this year? Are you thinking about getting rid of the house in New York City and LA?
I'm going to keep the LA house, but yeah, New York. We're going to let that go. No second homes.
Here.
Thanks for letting Barry and Shauna walk the real life journey with you. The content from the Perry and Shauna podcast comes from their live show. Barry and Shauna. Mornings on 89.3 Moody Radio, Grand Rapids, Michigan. Reach out to us by texting 800 968 8930. And please subscribe.