This week Nicola and Di are joined by Crystal Harris. Crystal is a bestselling author, psychology graduate, and former wife of Hugh Hefner, who cared for him up until his death. Crystal’s New York Times bestselling memoir, Only Say Good Things: Surviving Playboy and Finding Myself, pulls back the curtain on a life that looked glamorous from the outside but was, behind closed doors, isolating and deeply controlling. This was such an honest and powerful conversation.

We chat to Crystal about the unlikely path that led her, at just 21, to a Halloween party at the Playboy Mansion, and the surreal, disorienting experience of being “chosen” by Hugh Hefner that first night. She opens up about the strict daily routines, the financial control disguised as an “allowance,” and the moment she tried to walk out the front gate and was told to be detained, a chilling insight into just how trapped she really was.

We talk about her brief, bizarre detour dating Dr Phil’s son Jordan McGraw (you’ll want to listen in for the juicy details on that), what drew her back to the mansion, and why she ultimately married Hefner when he was 86. Crystal reflects with real clarity now on the coercive control and narcissism she couldn’t name at the time, and shares some confronting truths about Hugh’s treatment of young women.

We also hear about Crystal’s incredible healing journey since his death, finishing her psychology degree, starting a doctorate, and finding real safety and love with her new husband James.

We had such a moving conversation with Crystal. Her honesty, growth and strength are extraordinary. We hope you love this episode as much as we did!

This episode is proudly supported by Montgomery Investment Management, trusted experts helping you build and protect your financial future. For further information, please contact David Buckland, Chief Executive Officer or Rhodri Taylor, Account Manager on (02) 8046 5000 or investor@montinvest.com

Follow Crystal on IG here - https://www.instagram.com/crystalmharris/

Buy Crystal’s book, Only Say Good Things here - https://www.amazon.com.au/Only-Say-Good-Things-Surviving-ebook/dp/B0CF4NCYG4

Listen to or Watch Crystal’s podcast, After The Mansion here - https://www.youtube.com/@crystalmharris

Follow Nicola and Di on IG here - https://www.instagram.com/overthebackfencepodcast/ 

Find out more about the next OTBF trip to Bhutan in October 2027 - https://www.travelmanagers.com.au/ptm/michellenicholas/explore/travel-itineraries/

Watch Over The Back Fence on YouTube here - https://www.youtube.com/@Overthebackfencepodcast/podcast

This week Nicola and Di are joined by Crystal Harris. Crystal is a bestselling author, psychology graduate, and former wife of Hugh Hefner, who cared for him up until his death. Crystal&rsquo;s New York Times bestselling memoir,&nbsp;<a href="https://www.amazon.com.au/Only-Say-Good-Things-Surviving-ebook/dp/B0CF4NCYG4">Only Say Good Things: Surviving Playboy and Finding Myself</a>, pulls back the curtain on a life that looked glamorous from the outside but was, behind closed doors, isolating and deeply controlling. This was such an honest and powerful conversation.
We chat to Crystal about the unlikely path that led her, at just 21, to a Halloween party at the Playboy Mansion, and the surreal, disorienting experience of being &ldquo;chosen&rdquo; by Hugh Hefner that first night. She opens up about the strict daily routines, the financial control disguised as an &ldquo;allowance,&rdquo; and the moment she tried to walk out the front gate and was told to be detained, a chilling insight into just how trapped she really was.
We talk about her brief, bizarre detour dating Dr Phil&rsquo;s son Jordan McGraw (you&rsquo;ll want to listen in for the juicy details on that), what drew her back to the mansion, and why she ultimately married Hefner when he was 86. Crystal reflects with real clarity now on the coercive control and narcissism she couldn&rsquo;t name at the time, and shares some confronting truths about Hugh&rsquo;s treatment of young women.
We also hear about Crystal&rsquo;s incredible healing journey since his death, finishing her psychology degree, starting a doctorate, and finding real safety and love with her new husband James.
We had such a moving conversation with Crystal. Her honesty, growth and strength are extraordinary. We hope you love this episode as much as we did!
This episode is proudly supported by <a href="https://investwith.montinvest.com/otbf">Montgomery Investment Management</a>, trusted experts helping you build and protect your financial future. For further information, please contact David Buckland, Chief Executive Officer or Rhodri Taylor, Account Manager on (02) 8046 5000 or <a href="mailto:investor@montinvest.com">investor@montinvest.com</a>
<a href="https://www.instagram.com/crystalmharris/">Follow Crystal on IG here - https://www.instagram.com/crystalmharris/</a>
<a href="https://www.amazon.com.au/Only-Say-Good-Things-Surviving-ebook/dp/B0CF4NCYG4">Buy Crystal&rsquo;s book, Only Say Good Things here - https://www.amazon.com.au/Only-Say-Good-Things-Surviving-ebook/dp/B0CF4NCYG4</a>
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/@crystalmharris">Listen to or Watch Crystal&rsquo;s podcast, After The Mansion here - https://www.youtube.com/@crystalmharris</a>
<a href="https://www.instagram.com/overthebackfencepodcast/">Follow Nicola and Di on IG here - https://www.instagram.com/overthebackfencepodcast/&nbsp;</a>
<a href="https://www.travelmanagers.com.au/ptm/michellenicholas/explore/travel-itineraries/">Find out more about the next OTBF trip to Bhutan in October 2027 - https://www.travelmanagers.com.au/ptm/michellenicholas/explore/travel-itineraries/</a>
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/@Overthebackfencepodcast/podcasts">Watch Over The Back Fence on YouTube here - https://www.youtube.com/@Overthebackfencepodcast/podcast</a>

Di Edwards and Nicola Dale have been best friends for close to four decades & they actually share a ‘back fence’ in Sydney! 
They share a love of life, a passion for people, and have discovered a simple conversation over the back fence, can change a life and give a sense of belonging . 

“We’re not neuroscientists, psychologists, doctors or monks - we just love people - and know with age comes wisdom."

Di Edwards and Nicola Dale have been best friends for close to four decades &amp; they actually share a ‘back fence’ in Sydney!  They share a love of life, a passion for people, and have discovered a simple conversation over the back fence, can change a life and give a sense of belonging . 
“We’re not neuroscientists, psychologists, doctors or monks - we just love people - and know with age comes wisdom."

Over the Back Fence

Over the back fence is a podcast by two incredible women in their 50’s and 60’s - for women.

Di and Nicola have an infectious energy that is bound to light you up. It’s a podcast which values community, connection and lifting each other up. 

Here, Di and Nicola will delve in to the highs and lows they’ve experienced in life… From starting a family, experiencing marriage breakdowns, to embracing new beginnings. They’ll discuss the lessons they’re still learning, and interview people with inspiring stories to tell. 

Di and Nicola will invite guests on OTBF from all over the globe. From close friends, entrepreneurs, comedians, councillors to motivators and life coaches - to unlock their wisdom and have a laugh along the way.

Over the back fence is a podcast by two incredible women in their 50’s and 60’s - for women.
Di and Nicola have an infectious energy that is bound to light you up. It’s a podcast which values community, connection and lifting each other up. 
Here, Di and Nicola will delve in to the highs and lows they’ve experienced in life… From starting a family, experiencing marriage breakdowns, to embracing new beginnings. They’ll discuss the lessons they’re still learning, and interview people with inspiring stories to tell. 
Di and Nicola will invite guests on OTBF from all over the globe. From close friends, entrepreneurs, comedians, councillors to motivators and life coaches - to unlock their wisdom and have a laugh along the way.