Title: Meet the Family – The Colombo Family

Original Publication Date: 6/7/2023

Transcript URL: https://share.descript.com/view/XWBD8FGosVh

Description: In this episode of Organized Crime and Punishment: A History and Crime Podcast, Mustache Chris and Steve take a look into the captivating history and intricate background of the notorious Colombo crime family. From its origins in the early 20th century to its rise as one of New York's most powerful Mafia organizations, we explore the key figures, pivotal events, and inner workings of this influential criminal syndicate. Discover how the family became embroiled in various illicit activities, such as racketeering, gambling, and labor unions, as well as their involvement in high-profile incidents like the "Colombo Wars." Join us as we uncover the dark secrets and fascinating anecdotes that shape the legacy of the Colombo crime family.

#ColomboCrimeFamily #MafiaHistory #TrueCrime #OrganizedCrime #NewYorkMafia

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Begin Transcript:

[00:00:00] Welcome to Organized Crime and Punishment, the best spot in town to hang out and talk about history and crime. With your hosts, Steve and Mustache, Chris.

Welcome back to the show. I'm Steve and I am joined by our very own mustache. Chris Mustache, how you doing this fine evening? Oh, I'm doing pretty good myself and I'm pretty excited to talk about the Colombo crime family. It's, uh, it's one of the more wild stories in the mob, like the Bonanno family's pretty wild story with the colombos are are pretty insane.

We're pretty much, we're piling on one wild story on top of another here. Now in the, in this episode, [00:01:00] we're continuing our flyover summary of the Five Crime Families of New York, five Families and five episodes. These episodes are the primer that will be a great reference as mustache. Chris and I dive into many of the incredible stories that involve these families and crimes across the United States and beyond.

The focus of today's episode is another family with a really unique story. The Colombo family, the colombos, have experienced ups and downs and all throughout their history. And so Chris, what would you say is your really quick, uh, elevator speech, introduction to the Colombo family? What maybe makes them different or unique amongst the organizations we've talked about and will talk about?

I'd say out of all the families, the Colombo family is probably the most chaotic and violent semester I could describe it. Um, [00:02:00] you can definitely tell and we'll get into it later. It's definitely the youngest family out of the mall, and it shows in their history. I mean, there's a, there's some, there's some similarities with the Bonanos and the Colombos, but the Bonanos didn't really have the type of civil wars that the Colombos.

Had that, uh, we're gonna get into in a little bit, like if I had to pick one word for the Colombo family, or I guess two, it would be violent chaos, right? That's, that's the stage for today. Let's, uh, as we like to always start off, what's, what's the early history of the Colombo family? Where do they come from?

Out of all the families, the Colombo family's actually the youngest, uh, out of all, uh, the five major, uh, Uh, New York crime families. Um, actually it got Joe Provac is like, ends up being, he's like gonna be like the, the leader of the family. It's a, we call it the Colombo family now, but at the time it would've been called the [00:03:00] Profaci family when Joe, uh, Profaci was around and, um, Yeah, he was born in Palermo, Sicily where a lot of these guys come from, even still to this day.

That's where Laso and Ostra is based in Sicily. So he arrived in New York, but then he, uh, quickly moved to, uh, Chicago where he ran a grocery store. And, uh, but it wasn't successful, so he had to move back to New York. And this is kind of at the time that. And from what I've read, this is where he started kind of getting involved in the local gangs in North America and.

So, uh, the, around this time period, it started up in all of the oil importing business. So I guess if any of our audiences have watched The Godfather, I mean, that's probably where they got it from was Joe Provac running a, this olive oil importing business, which I, from my understanding, he just kept it going his entire life.

I guess he gave him a little [00:04:00] bit of air of legitimacy and it was, was really successful. Um, yeah, from like everything that I've read and even like for like really hardcore like mafia historians, it's um, a little difficult to understand just how Joe Profaci was able to rise up in the, uh, New York, uh, mafia scene so quickly.

Um, He had connections back, back in Sicily. Um, but you know, given that the little amount of experience that he had and kind of just the history that we do know of, like opening up a failed grocery store and importing olive oil, it doesn't really scream to you. Uh, like this guy's gonna be a boss of one of the most powerful crime families in the in, in North America.

But somehow he does rise up to the, to the challenge. Can you talk about, uh, after the Casta La Marce war, which we'll eventually get into and discuss more, how does Joe Profaci come to [00:05:00] the, come to the top? Yeah, so like, he, he ran like, um, Basically ran like the gang, like a gang in Brooklyn or what have you.

And the, the, the Castle Lamari War broke out. Uh, we're gonna get into it. We talked about it on previous episodes, but at the, you know, uh, Salvator Orano wins, he's quickly killed. Lucky Luciano takes over, Joe Bonano and all that, but, J him, uh, Joe Profaci and Joe Beo had a very close, uh, friendship. So maybe this is also one of the ways that Joe pr, Joe Profaci was able to move up pretty quickly.

And the, uh, In the, uh, uh, Italian mafia scene in New York. And, uh, between the two of them, they kind of formed like a conservative wing of the commission, is how I would kind of describe it. Um, plus like, uh, the two of them together, it kept the, so say, just say in theory that the other three families decided to gang up and they wanted to like, take [00:06:00] on say just Joe or just, uh, a bon.

They really couldn't do it with Joe Profaci and Joe Bono being tied to the hip the way they were. Uh, so it kind of kept like a balancing, uh, act within the family itself. Within the, uh, commission itself, Joe Profaci, he made most of his money, you know, with the mafia mainstays, you know, racketeering, drug trafficking, loan sharking.

Uh, but he actually, he made a, a fortune during the World War II when, like, uh, the demand for olive oil. You know, went through the roof and, you know, he was running an olive oil onboarding business. So, so it really sounds like he could have been just the, he got loaded right guy, right time. Like in everywhere in his legitimate businesses and in his, uh, mafia businesses.

Yeah, I would, yeah, I would describe him as lucky in a way. I mean, he was shrewd enough to take advantage of the luck that presented to him. Right. But I mean, in a lot of ways he was kind of a lucky guy. Um, and he made like a [00:07:00] crazy amount of money. Uh, I was. From my research I was reading like he actually moved into like, uh, Teddy Roosevelt's old house in New York, and Joe Profaci also put on like this, this kind of act that he was like a super devout Catholic and I mean he donated to a lot of like the community I guess, but.

You know, there was like a push at one point to like get him knighthood by, you know, his friends and family. And the Catholic church was, I think they were thinking about it at one point because he just donated so much to the church. And then, you know, people, you know, smarter people stepped in and be like, yeah, do you not know who this guy is?

Do you not like it never happened. But it just shows you like, uh, the amount of influence that he did have. I mean, and that's a really interesting thing because. When somebody is making such boatloads of money from a legitimate enterprise, it's kind of hard to tease out if they really are as criminal as what Joe Profaci [00:08:00] was, uh, especially if it's not completely in the open.

I mean, these are still secret societies, but all of this eventual, uh, criminal activity does land Joe into some legal trouble. Yeah, by the 1950s, Josie Lee, he finds himself in like kind of, this is usually how they get a lot of these guys is like income tax invasion and he was facing like potential for deportation.

It, it's weird cuz like I was, did you know this, that apparently like even if you make like the money that you make is like illegally obtained, you still have to file it on your income. Yeah. I did not know like I did. Like that's. That seems, that seems kind of crazy, but that's usually how they catch these guys and they, I've never understood this about the guys just pay the taxes.

Like they'll still make a ton of money and it'd just be like one less thing you have to worry about. You know what I mean? I guess they just, they just get so greedy, you know? Like they would still make a ton of money and I get like, nobody wants to pay taxes, but you know, you look like this is how they got Al Capone and [00:09:00] this is how they got so-and-so, and this is, you know, there's a pattern here.

Just pay, just pay the money. And then, then they don't have a case on that. I just, I've never understood that about these guys. It just seems, I don't know, it just seems like you're playing with the devil with that right. I think there's a bunch of different A, because it is illegal money and then when you launder it, it's a lot of the laundering ways are illegal, so it's really, it's hard to keep even in the best of circumstances and you're a hundred percent above board to stay completely in the right with the tax man.

And then you have all these complicated schemes to launder money to move money around. It's almost impossible to not. Be in some way evading taxes. And I mean, let's be honest, like you said, these guys are evading taxes too. Yeah, yeah. No, I guess, yeah, that's take, I just, I don't know. I just think they're. I don't know.

Hired like a really smart accountant to [00:10:00] figure it out, you know what I mean? Like just so the government would have a difficult time making this case. But I mean, time and time again it seems to be their go-to is the income tax invasion. I think it's because it is so loose goosey that it's a great entryway ended, ended.

Breaking open their books too. Yeah. And it's like, I, I'm from Canada, so like, it's like American tax law is a little, it's, I don't know, it's very, I don't wanna say it's like very different. It's just not something I've really had to deal with. Right. And the changes from like state to state, the way you guys do it and like candidates a little bit more, I mean, we have differences like between provinces and provinces, but like our.

Under our taxes. There's a little bit more streamlined I find, and I say, I've heard, like Americans talks about, talk about like tax season, and I'm just, yeah, I don't know. I just get bewildered because it just seems like there's just so much to it.[00:11:00]

Steve, here again with a quick word from our sponsors. Now Joe, he's at the, the famous Appalachian meeting. How does, and the, the Appalachian meeting is something we will 100% do a much more of a, uh, discussion on. But what, how does Joe come out of this infamous Appalachian meeting? Oh yeah. So like the Appalachian meeting was like this giant meeting put together by Vito Genovese or all these top mo bosses from New York, but like across the entire USA came to have a meeting to discuss, you know, the entire direction of the mob, really.

Like, you know, like what's our stance on drug trafficking? What's our stance on this and that. And it was kind of a way for Vito to, I mean the least the way he perceived it was kind of legitimize his, um, His rule, because at the time the Geneveve family was like, by far the most powerful family. So you were kind of like the boss of [00:12:00] bosses type thing, uh, Joe.

But it ends up getting broken up. Right? Um, the police, uh, you know, they just start wondering like, why is this guy Joe the barber, like, uh, who. Like kind of rented out the area. They knew that he was kind of a mob guy, and it's like, why are all, like, why is there like 200 of these guys coming all at once?

And they saw all these fancy cars coming in and they, they broke it up and uh, Joe found himself, uh, Potentially facing like five years in prison for, uh, attending this meeting. But you know, Joe being, uh, the lucky guy that he was, he ended up doing no time for it. Then we move on to the, probably one of the craziest of crazy things in the Mafia, we bring in another Joe, uh, that we can very easily keep separated from.

Joe Profaci. That's crazy. Joe Gallo. Yeah, it's funny you bring in another Jo. I was never telling you when I was writing the notes for this and I was like, just too many Joes. It's like, Joe says this, [00:13:00] Joe. Then there's more Joes coming. Like it's, it's like, just pick a different name guys. Uh, yeah, Joe Profaci, he was like a successful boss, but he also had like a reputation.

Um, and it was Wellar, right, for being really cheap to his fellow, fellow family members. Uh, Joe Bono and I, Joe Profaci aren't mustache Petes, but they're. I don't know, like the, kind of like the traditional mafioso. A lot of these guys, they, I don't know, I just do not like them. They just rubbed me the wrong way.

He had a reputation for being very cheap and like he also forced like the, uh, uh, the, the guys in his family to like pay like a $25 a month like tax to be part of the family and from. This practice kind of makes sense because in theory it's supposed to be stashed for, you know, in case somebody gets caught or the family finds themselves in like legal problems.

It's kind of like an insurance policy really. Right. You know, like you pay in, if you found, you find yourself like [00:14:00] getting caught with, I don't know, trafficking drugs or loan sharking. Okay, this is why you were paying this tax. We're going to use this money to, you know, hire the best lawyers and. But Joe was just like pocketing the money, right?

Like, and from my understanding, the rest of the families weren't even, weren't doing this. This was like kind of a practice from back in Sicily and just really pissed off a lot of people in the family and on top of being cheap and hoarding a lot of the money. Um, Yeah, and this is kind of where crazy Joe and his brother, uh, Larry, enter the picture.

We have a ton of stuff on Crazy Joe, but really in short it, it joe, it crazy Joe that is Gallo. There are mafia and everything except for name that Joe Crazy. Joe Gallo doesn't get made in all this. He's not even technically in the mafia and he's making a play to be in charge. Yeah. Yeah. And it kind of set it up like a [00:15:00] little bit.

So like, like Joe and his brother Larry, the, you know, the Gallo crew were very, like, they were loyal to Profaci. They were good money makers, they were good earners, they were good enforcers. Um, And Joe Profaci was having, uh, uh, trouble with this one mobster, um, Frank Abdo, Marco. Yeah. He, he ran like a very successful numbers game and like, uh, you know, legal gambling and stuff like that.

Right. Numbers is kind of, I don't know. It's basically the lottery is really what it is, right? Pretty much, yeah. That's basically all it like, but, but back in the day, like doing, like running the lot, it seems crazy now, but back in the day, like running like a lottery was like illegal. And, um, you know, like people would win, you know, you would win sometimes.

Like the, the payouts were anything crazy like we see nowadays millions and millions of dollars and stuff like that. Like your guys ga like. Uh, lotteries in the states are insane. Um, close to like almost a, it was like the biggest [00:16:00] one. It's like 500 million or something. I think there was one that was close to a billion dollars, if not more than that.

Not too long ago. Yeah. But Frank was refusing to pay the tax to Joe Profaci, and this, the way Joe Profaci saw this was like, you're, you're, it's a slop in the face of the boss of the family, and it's like a disease. It's gonna start spreading to the rest of the guys. And I have to make an. Example out of him, and apparently Joe Profaci ordered Frank to get killed.

And it's a little murky exactly what happened. Uh, some say like Joe Gallo did it, and with the understanding that like if he did this hit for Joe Profaci, he would move up in the family and he would actually start getting like a proper payout and he was gonna get, um, you know, Frank's number, uh, Numbers, rackets, and, you know, Frank died.

And, you know, let's just say that, let's just go with that story, that that's what actually happened. You know, Joe [00:17:00] Profaci, you know, reneg on, uh, his, uh, agreement with Joe Gallo and Joe Gallo just blows a gasket, and that essentially leads us into the first Colombo war. Yeah, that's really kind of what sets it off is Joe, Joe not treating his soldiers properly and just being greedy.

It's really, at the end of the day, all of this could have been avoided if Joe just kind of treated people a bit better and more fairly in terms of financially. I mean, there's a lot we can learn in history from that too, right? Where. People had just been slightly less greedy at different points in history.

A lot of the problems that they end up facing later could have been really avoided in terms of, you know, we can think about it, like not paying, uh, you know, not paying your mercenaries pro properly or soldiers properly. Like how many times has that, uh, how many times can we point to history where that's led to, like major problems?

And so the how, uh, really quickly to go through this because we'll definitely [00:18:00] address these more specifically in, uh, up in upcoming episodes. How's the first Colombo war wrap up? Oh yeah. So just to kind of give a, go through quickly, uh, Joe Gallo, like kidnapped, uh, high ranking officials in the Colombo family.

He almost kids that he was gonna kidnap. Joe Profaci himself that Joe Profaci fled. He stayed in Florida for a bit cuz he was friends with the Santo traffic anti, which is another guy we're gonna get into later. He is, uh, Big time mob person in, in the history of the mob. Um, yeah. And they come to some kind of agreement where like Joe was gonna release 'em and then he ends up doing it.

And, but of course, Joe Profaci being the way that Joe Profaci is, um, immediately reneg on the deal and tries to, you know, tries to kill Joe and, uh, Larry. And at this point, it's still really the Profaci family. We [00:19:00] haven't moved. Yeah, it gets backdated to calling it the Colombo's wards, but at this point Colombo is what, where is, uh, another Joe, Joe Colombo.

That's like the quick overview of the war. Like Joe Gallo ends up going to jail for like extortion, right? So he's kind of out of the picture for a bit like the Gallo. There's still like the Gallo crew, right? Um, yeah, he goes to jail. Uh, I believe it was like seven years he went to jail for, so he kind of, he's kind of out of the picture.

Joe Profaci dies of cancer. Um, I mean, he was pretty, and I think it was in the movie they, that we, uh, talked about, uh, was. They had him like the iron lung machine Oh yeah. Or something that, yeah. But Joe just sends up, you know, pretty, um, unceremoniously, I guess, which just, uh, died of cancer and his underboss Joe, uh, Manco, uh, Takes over the family.

Carmine Persico is another guy that we're gonna get into in a little [00:20:00] bit. He, he was originally part of the Gallo crew, and then he like traded, he, um, we betrayed them and joined the Profaci faction of the family. And like, yeah, like he. And then they tried to kill him with like car bombs. So like even well after Joe Gallo goes to jail, like the war's still kind of going on still.

And just kind of put in perspective just how crazy this war was. Like the mob always like had a big no-no about car bombs. You just couldn't do it, uh, in the states and was a different story. Um, Just because of like the potential of like, uh, you know, hitting innocent bystanders. And then, uh, Joe Magia, Coco, how many Joes are we up to for.

Five now six Joe's, Joe Meley Coco, he's really not cut out for the boss business and they push him out of the way and Joe Colombo takes over. So now we're finally at the Colombo family and that really, um, Leads us into the next [00:21:00] part of the story. Who is this Joe Colombo character? The way, uh, Maggliocco, uh, gets kicked outta the picture.

They, the, the commission uncovers a plot that him and Joe Bonno had, where Joe Bonano was gonna try to basically take over the commission and by extension, take over, become like the boss of bosses and failed miserably. Um, Joe Mcco just wasn't. Just wasn't Joe Profaci, he wasn't a remarkably, uh, intelligent individual from everything that I understand.

Uh, the commission gets him off though. Lets him go kind of go free. Um, the re one of the reasons, I mean, the reason they the entire plot, um, was uncovered was because Joe Colombo, his, who was working under, uh, Joe Mag Maggliocco, Um, he was supposed to perform one of the hits, but instead he, he went to Carlo Gambino and the rest of the fine families and said like, this is what these guys are up to.

So he basically betrayed his boss to become the [00:22:00] boss. Then Colombo Colombo settles the family in a little bit, but then as soon as crazy Joe gets outta jail, it's back on. Yeah. So when Joe ends up becoming boss, he was the youngest, um, boss in, out of the five families at the time. He was, he was only 41 years old.

Right. Uh, You know, a lot of these guys even later on, like they're usually pretty old by the time they get to become boss. Right. But it, I guess it was a unique circumstance when Colombo became, um, yeah. When Colombo became, uh, the boss and yeah, he does a pretty good job of actually kind of bringing stability to the family and like a guiding light.

Uh, he wasn't like Joe Profaci in the sense of, he wasn't like super greedy and he was kind of a street guy too. He wasn't like the man in the ivory tower. Um, He was on the streets with a lot of these guys. Right. You know, still the boss. Right. But, um, you know, he had a connection with the, some of the, some of the guys who were doing the dirty work in [00:23:00] terms of making money for the family.

And, uh, yeah, he actually, he gets an end, he puts an end to the, the, um, the, uh, first Colombo war, but. I mean, as soon as Joe gets out of the jail, he, you know, he goes to Joe Colombo and is like, you know, you gotta pay me. Uh, was he wanted a hundred thousand dollars or something to end the war? And Joe's like, no, I'm not.

I'm sorry. Colombos is like, no, I'm not. Are you insane, gonna give you five grand or something like that. And, uh, the way Joe Gallo saw it was like, well, you guys made this piece, but I was in jail. I didn't have anything to do with this. So in my opinion, the war's still going on. Then Joe Colombo, in all this time, he's getting involved in this Italian anti, uh, anti defamation league at, um, that is like an Italian American Civil Rights League and.

We'll discuss a lot of this. Was this a fake phenomenon that Joe Colombo was trying to do [00:24:00] to plaster over and give some respectability, or did Joe Colombo really believe this, but whatever the case is, it became kind of a thing. It's weird because like he, he did such a good job of trying to, bringing like stability to the family and then he does something where he sets up the Italian Civil Rights League, which is like, it's, oh, you guys can go on YouTube and you need watch the rallies and, and speeches.

It was all over the news. It was a big thing. I mean, one of the reasons, it was a big thing. It was just like, A lot of the unions with the mobs were basically running. Were like, you know, your worker's gotta go, gonna attend this rally, otherwise there's gonna be issues. Right. Um, but it's weird because like I said, he was bringing stability to the family and then he kind of, this kind of comes at a, I don't know, like out of left field really like.

It would have like, kind of the opposite effect of all the work that he was trying to do to fix up the problem. Like the mess that Joe Profaci left. Um, cuz it just brings like such a limelight [00:25:00] onto the mob. Right? I, I don't know, like the way I kinda look at it is like he, he saw like how the civil, like the, you know, the civil rights movement was a really good, um, basically weapon that you could turn against the federal government and.

Basically like weaponizing, like protesting, like for, you know, to get what you want really. Where maybe his tool might be a better tool. I don't know. Right. But the way I would say is that's the way I think he kind of saw it where it's like, well if I set up this Italian civil rights league and he is like the FBI's coming down on um, US hard, if I can make this like an Italian civil rights issue, I could take the offense to the F B I where they're.

You know, they're gonna stop investigating the mob. They're not gonna use words like OSA, Nostra, they're not gonna use the words like the mob and organized crime and association with Italians because it becomes a civil rights issue. And that leads to all the different types [00:26:00] of legal problems and maybe potentially the F B I starts taking a step back, you know, in terms of actually investigating all these issues because, It's just not worth the potential legal ramifications involved in it.

You know, I probably not a popular opinion, but if you do look at, uh, what we traditionally think as the Civil Rights movement, right to, um, You know, there was it, you know, it got to the point where even some of the not so good stuff that was going on, going on in it, you know, in terms of like communists and what have you, I don't think that's really even up for debate anymore really.

That's not really a controversial position. It's just, I mean, the f b I would try to expose some of this stuff, but you know, it got to the point where it just, it was just the p, it was just such a PR nightmare that they just. Stop doing it. Oh, then I think you put yourself in the place of the, the 19, early 1970s.

By that [00:27:00] point, people know the V and this is, we're getting past the Jagar Hoover era, and this is probably going into different, uh, Different, uh, sidetracks and rabbit holes that, uh, we don't wanna spend too much time in. But it was just after the Ed Jer Hoover era, the f b i, where the people were actually starting to see the really ugly abuses that the F B I had done too.

Civil rights organizations and all these different groups and people were kind of sick of it. So I think that Joe Colombo, whether it was, you know, what his mix was, I think maybe he believed somewhat in, in the whole civil rights aspect of the Italian American Civil Rights League, but it was also a.

Great business move. The more I thought about it, cuz I was like, it's such a bizarre thing in mob history. It's like really, this just kind of just comes outta nowhere, you know what I mean? And then, but it really is, [00:28:00] if it was able to work in terms of like a, like an offensive tool against the F B I, like a, you know, like we're gonna take the attack to them and sort of.

Um, always being on the defensive. It's brilliant. It's brilliant. Like it really, it could have worked maybe if it happened at a slightly different time. Uh, it could have worked or even somebody, if somebody else was doing it, maybe not. You know Joe Colombo, who's leading it, who was clearly a boss of one of the five families, but like, it really is a brilliant idea.

Now, uh, Colombo, he's actually murdered at one of these rallies and it was, Probably at the behest of crazy Joe Gallo, which moves us even further into the second Colombo war. How does the second Colombo war wrap up and what's the new organizational structure that comes out of it? Oh yeah. So like one of the, I believe it was the second, uh, Italian civil rights, [00:29:00] uh, league rally, Joe Colombo was shot by a guy named, uh, Jerome, uh Johnson.

He didn't die. I actually didn't die immediately. He was paralyzed and I believe he was like, On, on and off li uh, on and off life support for a couple years, and then he died later. Uh, pretty terrible way to go it if you ask me. Uh, yeah, like you mentioned, like, uh, there's a lot of, a lot of people are convinced that Joe did it, like Joe Gallo, but I mean, there's all different types of theories about.

Like who actually did it? I mean, maybe the commission did it, you know, or they, they were sick of this Italian civil rights league and the amount of heat that it was bringing intention and, you know, they did it. Uh, And everyone just assumed that Joe Gallo would've been the one who did it, right? I mean, uh, the guy who did it was, uh, African American and Joe Gallo was pretty famous for, at the time, like working with, uh, African American gangs, which a lot of the other Italian mob guys weren't.

[00:30:00] Uh, Really working with, but this guy, I did, uh, Jermaine, uh, Jerome, uh, Jackson. I did a little bit of research on him. He was kind of like a wannabe mobster kind of guy. Like he would hang out at these clubs and stuff like that. So, I don't know. I've heard different things. I've heard people convinced that Joe Gallo did it, or I've heard people say that Joe Gallo probably.

Didn't actually do, didn't actually do this. So I mean there's evidence to lend into both perspectives. Now how does the war end up? So when Joe Colombo is, uh, shot and obviously put out a commission, you know, a guy named Joseph Joey Ya Covelli, his name, the acting boss, and. Uh, but he actually waited to, uh, take revenge against, uh, Joe Gallo just because of the amount of, you know, this was on TV when Joe Gallo, um, when Joe Colombo was shot.

So there was like a lot of heat on the mob at the time, and he decided it would just not be a good idea to, um, take a [00:31:00] revenge immediately. Um, and like, even like the. The, like the police were had like men following Joe Gallo round. Like that's how much heat there was on the, it's so bizarre to be like, like why would the police care?

Or if somebody decided to whack Joe Gallo a career criminal. Like I, but I guess it, it made the, it would make the F B I and like police organizations look bad if they just kind of were letting this chaos just run amuck. Right. That's like, I guess that would be the logic behind it. Um. Maybe because of that.

Joe Gallo murder was so flagrant too, right in the middle of Little Italy, and there's so many different connections, so many people have claimed to do it. Uh, the guy from the Irishman, that movie, uh, he claimed to do it. A couple of other people to have done the hit. Yeah, it was such a, I mean, that just brought heat on everybody.

[00:32:00] Yeah, so they, well, they waited a year and then they, the Joe, like probably almost like infamous hits in mob history was, you know, shot and killed at his, on his birthday at Umberto's GLM house, which is, from my understanding, it's all open and you can have a, like a meal there. Maybe one day, maybe we'll do like a podcast from there.

It's one day or something. Um, I'm sure they probably would've, I'm sure they're sick of people doing it. And I think it's not in the same location. There's something else there now. Oh, okay. They're still in Umberto's clam house, but it's a couple of blocks away. So they, when Joe was killed, uh, Albert Gallo, one of his brothers decided to take revenge and, um, hired like a, hired a hit man, but he ended up killing like not the four people that were supposed to get killed.

They were like four innocent people. You know, it's, Just an example, like we're talking about all these civil wars and stuff like that. Like this is the craziness of the Colombo family, and it was like [00:33:00] almost kind of baked into the cake, like right from the get go. And it just continues throughout its entire history.

Uh, like at no point does it ever seem to really have like a time to breathe. Um, Yeah. So, uh, Joey Yak, he was like fearing for his life, so he, he fled. He's like, I, I don't want any part of this, right? Uh, um, yeah, but the, the Carmine Persico was gonna end up taking over the job, but then he found himself in trouble and look, get into him.

Well, he's gonna have his own series where like he's just, where Joe Profaci was very lucky. Car combine, Persico was probably the exact opposite in terms of like every crime. It seemed like he committed, he ended up getting caught for it. Then Zo Elio, he took over, but he was, he wasn't even in charge for like a year.

I think he ended up, he ended up going to jail himself. Right. So you just had like a string of quickly changing bosses, which is just never a good sign for. Anything in terms of like running a nation or a business or an [00:34:00] anything basically really like you need some staab, you need sta. That's the key is you need stability at the top.

He, the guy might not have to be, he might not be like the best boss or, but if he's just there and he is ready to like, and he's ready to like, Run the ship somewhat smoothly. It's better than just having a series of, uh, different bosses, especially in quick succession. But a guy named Joey Bocato took over.

Uh, he took over for bit. He wasn't actually interested in, uh, being the boss of the Colombo family, but he took over. So like, uh, I'll help kind of fix this a bit. Right. And uh, he was actually able to bring like an end to the, to the, I guess you can say like the second Colombo award, but it depends, like if you're Joey Gallo, the first one never ended.

So this has just been going on the whole time. Right. Uh, I would say like it never really did end. Like it was just kind of like a ceasefire and. Just kind of continued, right? And really this whole Carmine Persico era of all [00:35:00] these different bosses and, uh, all these different organizational changes and they're trying to do all these different things.

This all leads into the third Colombo war. And we'll try and like, maybe not. Bury ourselves in names in this episode because we can start to sort out these names as we go along into the, into the podcast series on the five families and on individual stories. So what precipitates this third Colombo war bra cono, like as soon as he ends the war, which is they just basically come to the conclusion that, uh, the rest of the Gallo crew, the Genovese family, is just gonna.

Take 'em on. And that's it. The Cumbo war's over, which is, I mean, that's pretty fascinating. Uh, I've never really heard too of that happening very often. But, uh, I guess the situation was just so unique and then everyone wanted just the war 10. Yeah, [00:36:00] so he, as soon as that's done, he is like, I'm out. I'm gonna go do my own thing again.

While in jail, Carmine Persico was named the boss of the family, and Thomas Debella was named, uh, he was kind of like the guy that was in charge of the, I don't know, the day-to-day operations. Um, And Thomas, he, in the sense Thomas was good, was a good like acting B uh, acting boss cuz he was kind of like the opposite of Joe Gallo and Joe Colombo in the sense like he hated being in the spotlight at all.

Like where those two guys were, you know, Joe Gallo was like, you know, hanging out with movie stars and Joe Lumbo was like on TV every day talking about Italian civil rights. You know, he could say, um, so this is something definitely the family, uh, needed. And this is a little kind of like side bit about the family too, where like the, the Gambino family kind of like looked at all this chaos that was happen happening in the Colombo family and just kind of slowly started chipping [00:37:00] away at their rackets.

And this is where, I mean, there's many different reasons why the Gambino family ends up becoming like one of the most powerful families. Uh, Uh, if not the most powerful family at one point. Uh, well this is one of the reasons they were kind of chipping away at the Colombo family. Uh, but they were always kind of somewhat close at this time.

Yeah. They were chipping, they were like kind of chipping away at their rockets and it's just kind of crazy that Carmine Parco threw all this time period. He is in the early seventies. Pretty much takes over and in different iterations is the, fairly much in control until almost the, almost to up to this day.

He dies in 2 20 19, but he still can't seem to bring stability to this organization. Well, it doesn't help when he's finding himself in and outta jail like every couple of years too, right? Like, uh, I'm just going through our notes right [00:38:00] now and it's, you know, he was in jail when he was named Boss and then, you know, the Thomas retired in 1977 cuz he was an older guy and he just, you know, I just bad, oh.

It's like, I don't wanna be doing this until, you know, the day I die. So just leave me alone. You know, that like he was released, uh, Carmine was released in 79, but then he ended up just going back to jail in 1981. You know, like, so he is just, he's running the family. Yeah. But like, how well can you run a family just being in and outta prison the entire time?

And, you know, I can only imagine trying to run like, You know, a vast, like intricate, uh, uh, mafia family, and you're doing it from prison and you're doing like, you know, people like relaying notes and it's like, bro, I can only imagine like the kind of broken telephone information that that would be getting down to like the average soldier.

Like they probably have no idea what's going on. Which probably again, because Perico was so in the can so often, that just, it opened up the feeding [00:39:00] frenzy on their carcass to have other groups like the Gambinos just chipping away at them. Now, how does this whole story wrap up? Uh, like I had mentioned, the Carman Parsco died in, in prison as it were in March of 2019.

What happens to this family after that? Yeah, so like, uh, Carmine Persico, he, he got caught up in the big Mafia Commission trial and like we're gonna do a whole series on that. And basically from that point on, just spends the rest of his life in prison. But he, you know, he's dead set that he was gonna run the family from.

Prison basically. And he names a guy, uh, Victor Arena, as like the, um, as his acting boss, really. Like he's the boss of the streets. Um, and, but it was, I dunno, from my understanding, like his Carmine had brothers too, so like, Um, Victor was supposed to be kind of a placeholder [00:40:00] until his brother came back. And this is kind of what leads to, um, third Colombo war where, uh, you know, Victor's like, he's the guy in the streets.

He's actually running the thing day to day, and he starts seeing, like, Carmine Persico is like, this guy's just losing touch for reality. He's, he's not out here, he doesn't see what's going on. Um, and you know, Victor Arena, he, like, he calls up, uh, Calls for help from his friend, like he was close friends with John Gotti, like, which is the Gambino Cumbo connection they were talking about earlier to, uh, you know, help call like a meeting with the, at the commission where basically they were asking the commissions like, can we just get rid of online Persico?

Like, he's gonna be in jail for the rest of his life. He's never gonna get out. Can we just say I'm the boss and let's just be done with it. Um, the commission decided like, You know what, this is an inter-family thing and which is so crazy to me. It's almost like they wanted this to happen [00:41:00] and we're like, what did you think was gonna happen?

Like Carmine Perko wasn't gonna hear about like Victor doing this and I, it almost seems like they, they did do it on purpose. So like they can keep the Colombo family week. Um, yeah, they decide like, oh, this is an inter-family thing. I don't want, we don't want anything to do with this. I know Victor Reina decides, you know what, I'm just gonna call a, like a, a vote with the capos themselves, ordered his, uh, under boss to, you know, go collect the, the votes from the capos and.

The one couple that he, uh, his underboss that he told to go collect the votes, he ends up telling Kamar Persico that like Victor Arena is trying to pull a coop and carma in Persico blows a gasket. And then, so let's, uh, let's wrap up the story for today as we're cruising to the end. What's pretty much the end of the story for the Colombos?

Oh yeah, so this is like kind of known as like the third Colombo war, and it's, [00:42:00] it's a big one, right? There's a lot of dead bodies, there's a lot of missing people, a lot of kidnapping. It's uh, it's actually more violent than the previous two Colombo wars that we had talked about. So like within like, I don't know, what would you say?

Like 30, 30 years has been three civil wars within this family. And pretty much two that never really ended, like the first civil war, Colombo War really let bled into the second one. 12 people we know for sure were killed. Like two people were like innocent bystanders. 18 people went missing. So just assumed that those people were dead and like by the end of it, like by the end of this war.

42 members of the Carmine Persico faction went to jail. 14 members of the arena faction went to jail. And I mean like Carmine's running this war out of jail. You know, like what makes me think is like, what are, what are the authorities doing? You know, like they must know that he's doing this in [00:43:00] jail. They must have some kind of idea cuz it's a war.

Like you figure people would be coming in and outta there all the time, like, You know, like, I don't know, I just think you would get something on tape or what have you. But basically like the war ends because Vic or Reno goes to jail for, you know, the typical mafia crimes, you know, racketeering, uh, drug trafficking in loan sharking.

And that's pretty much the, I'm mean, the, the end of the story really is the, it, it all wraps up as just the insanity of this family that. They just cannot seem to hold it together and just be criminals, basically. Like they're constantly fighting amongst each the each other. Yeah. Like, uh, I mean the Persico, I guess was Yeah, was in charge of the family up until like the day he died.

Like he pointed out. It was like 2000 wasn't that long ago. Right. Um, you know, and like even that third [00:44:00] war, I mean, it just kind of, I mean, it ended just cuz everyone went to jail. Like it wouldn't, you know, who knows how long it would've just kept on going if people, not everyone had gone to jail. Um, but like we had talked about the colom, I mean the Bono family and like the Bono family had its problems, obviously.

Right. You know, like Donny Brasco, like changing leadership and um, like a sequence of bosses. But in terms of. This all like full on like civil war that went on in the Colombo family. It's very unique. Like the Lucchese family didn't really have this type of problem and they ended up having like their, their own problems with psychopaths, like, you know, Anthony Castle and Victor Muo.

But you know, you look at the Geneve family and it's like, yeah, they would have, they had like some internal conflict and. You know, the Gambino family too, but nothing, nothing remotely close to what went on in the Colombo family. I mean, it makes it a fascinating read cuz it's, it kind of does read like what you [00:45:00] see, you know, kind of in like cheap, cheesy, uh, bee Hollywood movies about the mob or like, you know, They're all killing each other and it's just constant civil war.

I mean, that was the Club o family though, in a lot of ways from pretty much, you know, from, you know, I guess the latter half of Joe Profacis career onward, it just never stopped. And so that's where we're gonna put a pin on it. And for this episode, look for more of these five epi, five families and five episodes, and then definitely look forward to, as we deep dive into a lot of these topics, especially the topics we talked today, will also look into films and movies that depicted these events because that's almost as interesting as the events themselves, some of these films that were made about people like Joe Gallo.

So I definitely hope. But people stick around and give us a try. If you like what you're hearing, leave Apple Podcast reviews, reviews wherever you [00:46:00] go. And tell a friend. Tell a friend so that they can become friends of ours too. Yeah. I hope you guys really enjoyed this episode. I had fun researching it and.

You know, it's, I knew the Colombo family was crazy. I just didn't realize how crazy it was when you start putting it all in perspective. But yeah, you know, make sure you listen to the next episode. Forget about it.

You've been listening to Organized Crime and Punishment, a History and Crime podcast. To learn more about what you heard today, find links to social media and how to support the show. Go to our website, A to z history page.com. Become a friend of ours by sending us an email to crime a to zhi history page.com.

All of this and more can be found in the show notes. We'll see you next time on Organized Crime and Punishment. Forget about it.[00:47:00]