The volume. Well, we've done some unbelievable things on open mic, but one thing we have not done ever is been together. Right, me and the guests. We've zoomed, we've been virtually together. I have Mike McDaniel here, we're in Arizona. Mike is changing the game literally. I think you guys submit some rules today and kind enough to join me here on open mic. Hello. I feel honored to be a part of the first real open mic. Right for a real open mic to occur, I think we could agree that there needs to be two mics, correct with two mics, two mics with two mics, and we are very open. We're open to all sorts of things, including a discussion about all things football. But I actually want to start with a different sport because when you walked in, I was setting up and you ended up having a phone conversation with an old friend of mine. Yes, um and two of my favorite coaches talking shop. And why don't you why don't you tell me or recap for me what you asked my friend Steve Kerr to do for you, for I understand, as I understand it, this is to let all the viewership know, um, the type of context that you have and who you talked to. Yes, it's a name, it's a name drops. Yes, Kerr was on the phone correct which I fan boy out to Um that and uh you know got on the phone, bab my heart was racing. Um. I was babbling all sorts of complimentary things, which he took in stride. Um told me he can teach me how to shoot like stuff, which I'm excited about. Um. So, I guess I'm here to disclose the possibility of a career change. You know. So you know, Steve and I grew up together in LA. I was like the only Warrior fan at our school because I was born in San Francisco Niner Warriors. You know. I used to get clowned by him and everyone else. So wait wait, So so he took your fandom, shamed you in the present, and then made it his objective to be the head coach of I prefer to look at it this way. I win. Like he was like, oh, Warriors, whatever, I think. You know, that's why I go to victory parties on the road after championships shamelessly and all that. So I would say this, you know you brag about your friends. I will say that he did retire not only as a five time NBA champion, but with the highest three point percentage in NBA history. He still has it. He also was second to Wilt Chamberlain leave it or Not because he had. He and I were texting about this. Uh Will Chamberlain played the most games in NBA history without fouling, out Steve krbtire as the second before being passed by Jamal Crawford Belie. So he's measured competitively for the for the motives of the team. Well, what he said is I averaged fourteen minutes a game, so that that really helped. Uh So, when when you're not on the court, you're not fouling, correct, you've you've missed one hundred percent of the fouls you can't. I'm better not fouling than he is, though you well you have, You've caused a stir a time or two, and so I should you know for for you viewers, Mike and I haven't known each other a long long time. I was kind of like poking my head in Cleveland and Atlanta into coaches offices and locker rooms. Yeah, asking questions like, how did you guys like totally mind f that team? Because then we worked on your voice and your delivery of words correct, and you stopped talking like that. Yeah, and then I went on television and I just decided to talk like myself. And here I am on a podcast. You know, it's incredible. So we've known each other a long long time, and you know, I was so excited when you started getting noticed and ended up becoming someone who could interview for a head coaching job. Yeah. You knew me well before, so you've seen yes, you. I remember vividly there was a combine experience and we were at the Asian cuisine what was it, PF changing and um, you know I met Brian Heimerdinger there and he was eating with you, and I remember vividly you going, who is this guy? Yeah? Right? But then because literally the first thing you said after saying hi, I'm Mike, you the waitress came and you asked some insane, esoteric existential question about the tea or something, and you know, you were working on material. It was. I didn't know you well, but I would just kind of look at it. You know, Kevin Murphy and Brian Iyberdigger going like what is happening? And they and they had you know, they had done you justice. They're like, look, you got to meet mcdee. He's you know, you know how Kyle's a genius Kyle Shanahan. Mike is also like, especially with the Run game, he's doing stuff that is you know, way next level and blah blah blah. So hate those people exactly. But then I also remember that very next day because that night I think we ended up out as one does with the combine until three to four in the morning and had this crazy time at Prime, the infamous Combine hunt. And the next day I saw you and I go do that was awesome, man, we party that was so great. You were like, oh, I don't drink because you had, in fact stopped drinking. And I kind of just looked at you and you said to me, that is a skill that I could make you. You know, assume that I was parting with you when in fact I was drinking red bull, or one could call it a personality flaw that people can't diagnose between sobriety and under the influence or you know, in a serious related question to me being sober. It was the combine was a very practical application of something that I had to solve because one of the things that you know, the anxieties of stop stopping drinking is that now all of a sudden, you're going to become a social hindrance. You know, so combine time and stuff. I when I stopped drinking, I didn't want um the that to limit my ability to interact or be really a social weight. So when you told me that, I was like, yeah. And so for people who don't know, the comment is basically spring break for coaches and talent evaluators. You know, you you became a head coach your very first interview. We've joked with your now partner in crime general manager Chris Career, known for just being an abusive, you know, rancid personality across the land. But we've joked about how I called Chris Career to kind of check it on the coaching search. I love this story, and so this is a true story. I can go a story of the way you told it to Chris. Yeah, and so Chris was like he was very aware of all that. Well, because so what happened was I remember I was driving and I was down like in Oakland, I think, and I was driving it, and you know, we kind of checked in and I said, hey, you guys are running a great search. And this was sincere. I said, you know, Brian day Ball, I go, look, dude, I mean, how could you not be amazed by what he's done with Josh Allen. I don't think he's trying to be Bill Belichick. I think he's his own guy. Went on and on about day Ball, and then we got to Vance Joseph and I sincerely was like, I love VJ. He's good energy in the building. He's so smart. You know, he's he's going to be a great head coach the second time around. And then I kind of go, oh yeah, and Mike, and then by the time I got done talking about you, Chris Co's pause. So you basically just called to try to stick up for Mike, and you couched it and said I was like, Okay, I'm busted. Sorry, Chris read or Chris Greer has uncanny ability to read. Yeah people, Yeah, that's scouting. He sniffed you out. Um, but at the same time he appreciated and I appreciate it as as you know. Um, what you thought was like super camouflage and cover. Yeah, I don't think I did well. But the one thing I really felt like I wanted to convey to him because he obviously met you and understood a lot about your credentials. But I just you know, Chris is a very nice guy, and there have been some discord in the building, and I just you know, one thing I've always thought about you because most coaches are crazy and very in different ways, but you see the good in players. And I want to get into this, but I've talked to you for so long about this player that player, and a lot of coaches fall back to like that, he drives me crazy, does this, and you see the positive like as your fallback, and so I just thought like that positivity, if nothing else, was going to be something that should be accentuated when he was talking about you. So you get the job, and I'm like, you know, I was torn because I was really happy for you in psych but I was like, ah, and I have to share them with the world. And I remember your first I remember the first time Kyle let you do a press conference as the offensive coordinator, and it was on zoom. It was during COVID and you're like, hey, you should watch, you know, And so I watched and I texted you afterwards, I was like, you know, how'd it go? And You're like, I don't know. It was on zoom. But I'm like, did anyone get the joke? And You're like, I don't think anyone gone. No, But that's been the story of my life, um, for whatever reason, uh, you know, searching for that that one laugh. Um. Maybe you know when I was five or something, maybe it took me a while to get that one laugh. Um, but sent for for as long as I can remember, it didn't matter about the majority. It was about just getting one person to think something was humorous. And I thought, and over time you start to like the jokes that don't hit with most of the people. But then get your little your little sex, you know, the little audience that um actually just the faithful, the faith right. Well, you know one thing that I really appreciate, because I have the same horrible sensibilities, is you will beat a joke into the ground shamelessly. Absolutely. So. We all saw the Mike Jones. There's a journalist named Mike Jones, very good journalist, and when he would ask a question to you, you would well that I guess people could. That was the first time that something that I said, um, and just kind of went viral, right, And that specific one, Um, you have to understand in the in the in the context of the way it was distributed, this was zoom, and a zoom interview is pretty weird when it's you have multiple interviewers because it's active speaker, so you don't know what's coming. And that particular instance, I hadn't seen Mike Jones since the days in two thirteen, probably in Washington, so his face appeared and it was the first thing I thought of, and so he started asking a question ups and I said, who Mike Jones? So I see, I love the pause. The pause that's everything. Yea, it's a hip hop reference that you know. Some some people were able to immediately aggressor like, well, what's funny about this? His name's Mike Jones. Um, So that was right in my wheelhouse. Yes, you just find a small sect. But I feel like Mike Jones got it. Oh he got it, Yes, you know, because it is his name right. In fact, he would be a third Mike if we had him on open Mic. Right now, I guess, I guess the whole cortex of the world is being flipped because we're on open mic with two Mikes talking into two mikes talking about a mine. And since we're talking, or since one of the topic of Mike's So I grew up with Steve Kerr, which I've flaunted now shamelessly. I planted the phone call as you walked in. You grew up with a comedian literally, So tell me about you and Dan Soda growing up great. So, yeah, Dan Soda and I were We became best friends in seventh grade. Um, and we were both um, you know, kind of awkward, oversized head to body ratio that changed, Uh it did, um and then uh, but we we were we wanted to get involved in the cool kids. Um. And you know, we had the aspirations of middle school populator larity like everyone does. Um. And we had a little sect of friends that was kind of like at that time, it was like a skateboarding crew. Um. And this was in Colorado and in Laredo Middle School. Ok And um and uh what was unincorporated Rappo County now Centennial Okay, And uh it was interesting about it was, you know, in middle school to be cool is a little too twenty five action are we talking? Oh yeah, okay, two twenty five exits the road there you go south. Yeah, you can go on Quincy or orchard whatever. Okay, um I like and then uh, but we we weren't cool enough to be cool in middle school because in cool and middle school you had to be smoking marble reds. You had to girls had to be interested in you. Yeah that killed me. We we we we didn't. We weren't ready for marble reds. Um, and girls weren't that interested in us. So we got picked on our little crew U of uh friends that were the cool kids, but we were the bottom feeders of the cool kids. Um. And we on days where we had a ton of unrest of people just poking at us, we'd be like, you know, one day you're going to be a stand up comedian. I'm gonna be a head coach. And then they'll laugh. And we used to say that. We used to say that, so you spoken into existence. We were both those random, quirky kids that had their career set out at like five years old. And he literally became an actor and a stand up comedian. Oh yeah, well he did it the the half looney way where he went m he went to the University of Arizona. He did open mics in Tucson, which okay, And then then he graduates and he moved to New York City and did it the grab you know, the don't skip a step um you know, work as a waiter, serve people so that you can go on these free spots and developer craft. Wow, you know it's it was the coolest process. It's probably a lot like you know, training receiver coaches for Kyle Shadhead or the off season. So, but he was you want to talk about something entertaining you have you have a a young adult trying to figure out who he is, who's passionate about comedy. He I remember we took a spring break in high schools as seniors. We drove to in one of those astro minivans Arizona or something. UM and he had this tape of this guy named Dave Chappelle. Right, what year is this? Whoa UM? Ninety nine was you know those two thousand because his junior year. It wasn't senior year now I think of it. Um And and he could and he was like exposing this whole group of friends, this hilarious Dave Chappelle character. But then he had this um unique way like memorizing a song where we'd be at the end of the night. Um, you know, maybe it was on that trip. Maybe it wasn't a bunch of you know, guys staying up one house. We just probably went to a house party somewhere because somebody's parents were out of town. We'd go back and and then he would be able to go. He'd be able to, um do stand up routines from other people that we hadn't heard, and we'd be like pissing ourselves. That's so. And then that morphed into Okay, well in high school, parents aren't always out of town, so you can't have these parties on the weekends trying to find stuff to do. Oh, let's go to Soder's garage. And then he would be we'd be and then he would just be going. He'd get into these grooves and just be rattling off the stuff. So he was getting training. Marlborough's involved was that I think you know what's it called where you can't get in trouble for statue of limitations. Yeah, so, um, they're prob I bet there was. Yeah. I never jumped onto that train, yeah, um, for whatever reason, but yeah, there was that there was some you know, if if we could find the right adult, maybe some alcohol purchase, yeah, that type of stuff. Yeah, um, but we would be hanging out and there he would just be unleashing this And that's where to me when I talked to him, that's where he got that drive on top of the like, oh, I think this is what I want to do. Oh no, this is what I need to do. And it's been unbelievable to watch him progress two points of Yeah, he's on billions, that's what people know. But he has specials. He has HBO special and like just like us like back of the Yeah, no, Chris Rock has HBIAL special, right special, Like it's been really cool to watch this. This is an important question. Has he evaluated your especially since he became a head coach or where pro us he evaluated any of your you know, delivery lines you know? And no, because he's a good human that doesn't want to completely blow up myself kind of like Kurt doesn't evaluate my jump shot. Yeah, he allows me to feel as though I could potentially be funny, um, which I think is a gift that only a true friend could give. Well, I feel like if he like if he needed someone to introduce him. Like, let's say, and you just with very little prep just walked out there with the very dry sense of humor that you typically display. I kind of feel like you could kill Oh no, Well, so for me, I'm just a different like I can't even venture to to to when I look at standard comedians to hold the audience through the transitions, to continue to tell the story and to do that for a set, which is that blows my mind? Yeah? Probably in practice with Soda in the garage, I realized, Okay, well, you know, maybe I'm not a stand up comedian, but a surprise element of randomnity and humor I can always hit with that. So I'm more of a like a surprise attack. Hey this is funny. Oh you laugh? Now I'm gonna leave the room. Yeah yeah, right, leave on a high note. Right. Okay, So you come to Miami, you get the job, went one for one first interview at first head coaching interview, and we've talked about this. The environment has changed. There was a time where someone like you would have been stig. I don't have stigmatized as the word, but you weren't. Your profile wouldn't have been the classic he's going to be a head coach profile. I mean we're right in those times. Yeah, people are still adjusting to can do people really listen to this guy? No, it was It's it's real And UM, you know I I had obsessed about being a head coach for so long and then I kind of got beaten down, um in terms of like there's guys surpassing me, and I was like, and then a convaluence of working with Dan Quinn and there's there's a um a group by by the name of a Vision Pursue led by Russ Roush that kind of like no, no, no, Ironically, the best way for things to progress is for you to stop worrying about that and just worry about your job. Just let go your job. And so then I started doing that, UM. And I don't with no with no um ulterior motives of like, hey, I want to get it. I let go of being a head coach, thinking that if I'm a master of this, stuff you know will happen. But I truly didn't look at it like Okay, there's these jobs, let me prepare um. And you know that with the success that the people that I've worked with in the system and the stuff that M. Kyle was allowing me to do, and that having success and kind of having you know, this was a home grown like people people such as yourself, but then coaches and stuff. They've known about me for a long time and known me as a worker. And I don't know if you felt bad for me, but I feel like you and a lot of people like were like, come on, you can do it. Yeah. I just felt more like, well, you've been through some stuff and we could get into that, but you know, you alluded to you you changed your lifestyle and drinking and all that, and you kind of you know, as you put it to me, you went full M and M and a bile and decided So I'm going to own that. So well, what's tricky is then you get the opportunity. You get, oh, hey, this team wants to interview you. Well, I just spent a lot of time not worrying about the interview. So then all of a sudden and it's during the playoff or and you're like okay, And I didn't have time to really overthink the whole thing. Um, and I had one opportunity, UM, and I was very very I was looking at like this from a historical perspective. A guy gets an interview. Okay, now you got a real shot the next sight right right right, And then so that's the way I was approaching it. And then I did an interview over zoom and they asked me for a second one, and I got feet on the ground into into Miami with your giant AirPods. Giant AirPods. No, this is yes, this was giant air pods. Um oh no, maybe that was because I was wearing them. But what you're yes is when I had the job, but at the same air pods. Yeah, you got out of the plane and AirPods were not the tight little ones like that I wear usually on the show. That there was motivation behind that. I wanted to be known as the AirPod guy. You did Apple call you like that would have been another's right because they got it for free. They're like, yeah, exploitation at its fine, so that I'm not really thinking that way. And then I get feet on the ground and I meet the people in the building and Chris Greuer has given me a tour, and I had a bunch of background information from people that had worked for the Miami Dolphins. A lot of coaches have come through and I'm realizing live speed that I'm like, this is the this is everything I've ever wanted. You know, I've been set in six different organizations at the time, and I'm recognizing, like this place has all the utility and just needs a head coach to to fit within. You know, people don't understand a lot goes into a football team and you have to have synergy from coaching staff and players, but you also all the support staff and those are the ones that deal with players every day that you know, I've been I've been in organizations where they have been a huge route of a problem, whether it's training staff, whether it's um equipment, whether equipment, whether it's all this stuff, and I'm like, this is well, this is perfect. So now I'm like, oh, I can't mess this up. You know, now you're nervous. It wasn't nervous. It was like hyper focused, Like, Okay, you just worked thirty nine years. You got about eight hours, dude, so you get it. And you and we talked about you're very positive when it comes to players. You've got a quarterback to a tongue of Valoa who has basically been consigned by not just outsiders, but most of the NFL as shouldn't have drafted him. Not good. Gotta move on and get better. UM. Tell me the process of how you kind of evaluated to UH and and you know helped help. This is cool because there's a this is two ProMED um, and there's a specific moment that I think we can we can detail. That's it was really cool about the whole journey. But for context, like when I when I first started assessing the situation, you have the fifth pick in the draft, UM, and all the things that were involved in in UH his experience thus far in the NFL, UM, I found it was hard for me to not look at him and think of my my experience and in my experience in the world. Shoot, I'm a head coach now, UM, and I know where I came from and I know, UM like, how how do I even have a chance to have this over to even fulfill this overly ambitious um a vision or drive or dream that I had UM. And I knew I had had no chance, had I had not UM been built up by my mom to that you know what you can do, you can do anything, You're you're the smartest whatever. Everything you know, a single mom would tell a child. I know at a young age, I I gravitated to that that that gave me the confidence that we all have those moments where it's like, Okay, um, I don't know what's going to happen, um, And so do you go into those moments of uncertainty with um faith that you're going to get it done or um, you know, anxiety or apprehension that you're going to fail. And I had gone through all those moments with just vigor and fearlessness because of how I've been built up. So I saw two of like that, like how can we eat even approach the idea of we know what this player is when I don't know from my vantage point, who does this guy have that believes in him? So we have to start with he has to know that someone's one hundred percent in his corner, which I see is that's what a coaches and that no, dude, you can do it. So I had to convince him that I believed in him so he could get so that he can in turn allow himself you know, because I've been through him and I saw that. And then there was a particular moment that set everything off, and it was in early early March or something. We're going through free agency, and in that free agent process, we're meeting with all the scout and coaches in a room and we're discussing all sorts of things about Okay, well we need to do this that or the other, and all the different directions you can go in free agency to build your team. And and I knew in my mind that to a needed skill position players that were dynamic with the ball in their hands, because I saw him as you know, this dude is a point guard, right, he has it gets that way. And then some of the people in the personnel were like, you know what, No, we need to spend money on offensive linemen, and and I could feel that I I knew that I disagreed with it, but I hate that. Hey everyone know because I said so. So I'm like, okay, cool, taking the information. Let me go back to the office. Go back to the office, and I cut on the tape. And so I'm cuting on the tape to build the tape to explain to the entire coaching staff and to start the conversation from my lens so we can get to where we need to go and I'm watching different skill positions and and then as I progress through the tape, I start to notice this trend and it's like, Wow, that's like the seventh different outbreak that I've watched to a throw to the field. And just for a quick explanation or a quick explanation of that, is an outbreak to the field is I see once or twice from a particular quarterback of the season, because the receiver's running away from you, meaning the balls on the air longer, which is a higher risk for defenders to make up that ground undercut and pick six for a catastrophic turnover. This is a higher risk throw that quarterbacks are very nervous to make, and he's doing it, and so show and then the receivers going so like let's say, um, the ball is on the left hash. Okay, we're going that way. The balls in the left HASH. So the receiver from where the ball is snapped, the receiver on the right is running around an out route to the field to the field right, so it'd be on the right to the field, and he would make pinpoint throws that are down the field ten yard throws but are literally forty yard throws and I'm like and fearlessly. And so then what what started as an explanation of like how guys needed to be more open for TAH turned into this marvel sessh that started about six thirty PM. And then I just start watching until midnight on a random weekday in the off season and ended up compiling this thing where I'm like, oh, I thought I knew, I didn't even know, wow what we're sitting on. And I'm so I'm like freaking out, and I'm like, I'm sitting on this, I know for a fact from this night of study that this is the best quarterback for our offense that I've ever come that I've had a chance to coach. And I'm like freaking out right. So then I call um, I call Anne Nolan. I had a pr and I'm like, just write this date down. This is crazy, Okay, get off the phone with her. Call Chris Career. I'm like, this is midnight, Like, dude, I just gotta tell you. I've gone through like seven hundred different passes from seven hundred, seven hundred passes, and I I cannot believe when I'm seeing this guy is doing stuff that that I just haven't focused on my attention on this quite yet, and we are sitting on a gold mine. We need to do everything. Everything we do moving forward should be skill position players that have the ability to do stuff with the ball in their hands, because this guy, if they're open, he'll get it to him. And you know, and this is something that we've done in San Francisco. I can see the vision where we have run after the caschi at guys right now and then nowt but I'm not even there yet. Then I go home. It's probably one am. I can't even sleep. I come back at three, refine the tape and come up with it. I need to show the whole organization this tape today. WHOA, I'm gonna wait for Chris to wake up. He wakes up at calm, like, dude, sorry, this is but we need to Can we have a staff meeting at eight am. We're out of the Scout's gonna be okay. We're gonna have and we're gonna have everybody in there, and I just need to show this tape. I have to get this off my chest. And he's like cool, and then we get the whole staff together and I just run through one hundred and fifty clips in a row to kind of explain, Okay, this is this is the offense that he played within. These are some of the things he's capable of, and a historical perspective on offenses and what we what our offense is able to do if we have this type of player with some San Francisco stuff and all. And it was like this, and from that meeting on meeting ends, everyone kind of loosely discusses that afternoon, we have these analytic charts of the people in free agency that have the best ability to separate and have most YAC stuff. And the whole organization saw it, and we just moved in the direction to all right, we're empowering to a UM, let's go, and called to in showed him the same tape. UM. You know, anybody, anybody that was willing to listen, I was making sure they knew because I wanted everyone on the same page he was. It was interesting because it was like that. UM. It was like the most extreme case of a person not knowing how to take a compliment. He was. You could tell he was not used to um anything but overly constructive negativity, so he didn't know how to take it. Did he almost not believe you. No, he was like it just it was a slow momentum building meeting that probably clips seventy five. He starts, he starts to participate, like he's reading the room, like this isn't a trick, right, this isn't a setup, and he's like I can feel him get up in his chair, and then I'm making the pitch of okay, we'll do You're doing all this incredible stuff and in my estimation, people aren't open enough. This is what it should look like. Showed him so and he gets fired. And then by the end of the start playmakers, Yeah you start you did you put on the niner clips or did you go all the way back? Yeah? It was. It was intercut with some niner clips and things to kind of help him. You know, I'm thinking about it to me. Um. One of the things that I do. That's that's a staple that I learned from I think John Cruden talked to Kyle Shane Um and it's something that from Kyle's tree. We all have a little bit of our own element um. And you know, I've made made tapes for Kyle for for years and the ideas telling a story and carrying a narrative through video to tell your story so you have more factual, real um backbone to your argument, which translates to a Saturday night meeting with the players where you said, this is what we're gonna do with these are all these are all the same kind of like skill set or whatever, and that that whole process, that whole process helped him understand Okay, why am I showing this to you? UM, what what this means? Why you can trust me in my assessment, and where we're moving forward and what he needs to focus on kind of streamlined um. And it was the first building block, UM. And then that on top of practice tape and following suit, once we got onto the practice field, you could see a guy this early in front of you like, wow, maybe I am good. And and by the way, here's Tyreek Hill, your new right target. And then so I did the same thing with Tyreek Hill, showed him the same tape and it was one of those that, UM, you know, I was only going this direction if I was without a doubt positive in what I was saying. I was going to ruin my credibility with an organization or Tyree Kill or anything showed him that and then immediately Tyreeks like, oh yeah, totally he started and then he started telling the world then and then he hit the um, which which was which was cool. It wasn't the exact way, but it was also semi genius to Tyreek because like, you know this everyone's talking about toa is he di that or the other and then you have this one of one guy come out and be like, no, this dude is the deal. Yeah, he's like to say, I like him, you know, he's more accurate than Patrick, just like whoo um. And but regardless, that was just it was something that I think, Um, it was a necessary process for the situation that you know, I kind of fell. I fell into UM. But was so gratifying because you could watch UM. You know, I had this philosophy, philosophy of positivity and maximizing people, getting the most out of them, not saying what they are Okay whatever. We're in the business of maximizing talent. So if that's the case, why am I talking about all this all this stuff they can't do. Let's establish what they can do, and let's say, um, let's raise people's feelings in their expectations of themselves. You know, well, holy cow, I've had this belief forever. I talked to the to the guys that were interviewing me that ultimately hired me about it, and then boom, immediately here I get to express it and then watch it. Oh yeah, few, I was right, yeah? Right? Was it about week three where you were like, Okay, I think I think I can exhale on that. No, you know what it was really funny is I felt like I was sitting on a secret forever. UM. And the the the relief part was probably right around when we were doing inner squad scrimmaging UM, and it was we were able to two was able to execute some of the things that he was doing against their own defense against another opponent. UM. And so there was the relief UM. And by the regular season it was like, finally we get to unveil the unveil the secret that I feel like I've been sitting on forever, which is like UM. And it didn't take long. I think it was week two UM, where you know, we were down by several touchdowns and we had a twenty one point come back again and that's when people started or they kind of stopped the Mike McDaniel's crazy to it. They started to listen UM, which which was really cool UM to be a part of for the players specifically because you're like, all right, dude, people will see eventually, and then it happens and they do and he can feel that, and then watching him, I mean, it was amazing how much growth that human being had in the calendar year, more so than anything I've ever seen in my life. That's wild, you know. So the first person who really gave you a chance of Mike Shanahan, who I covered a ton in the nineties know very very well and should be a Hall of Famer hopefully very soon. I mean, it's kind of silly, but Mike Shanahan in the nineties and you know, your Bronco was better than anyone. You know, he won those Super Bowls and had that incredible team with Ed McCaffrey who was a late draft pick and Rod Smith who was an undrafted free agent, and they blocked they you know, they were great players. It was a big deal and it was against the green from a NFL perspective because he did that and he had a high price free agent. I think it was he he let go of I want to say Mike Pritchard Ashley or Anthony was Anthony Miller Pritchard um and had these no names. Um, you know Rod Smith had like, uh uh, this is an undrafted for more quarterback that kind of looked um, looked different. And Ed McCaffrey who was on his second third team, h third team, and they would block and they would Yeah, it was a bold move for you know, a team that was um, Mike Shannon was being hired because uh, you know, the city of Denver wanted you know, they had those on the heels of the LA Super Bowl losses. You had a ticking you had a ticking lifespan for their starting Hall of Fame quarterback. That was the biggest thing that's ever happened to the entire city or state, right, So the urgency was now to do that was and so you know, as well versed as I've been on the Shanahan Way and obviously watching Kyle from Houston on just you know, innovate and light it up. But I've always had this way of explaining first Mike and then Kyle, which is informed by that, which is, yeah, you could get a star receiver, but you could find guys like Ed McCaffrey rod Smith who the world doesn't think of as stars and be really really good. Thus, I'm not gonna be like everyone else who freaks out an over extends to get wide receivers. But you know, Tyree quicks me because I feel like once you guys got around Julio in twenty fifteen that maybe that changed your mentality a little bit. It was, UM, I think you bring up a good point. It's set the burn, it's set um kind of a expectation of normalcy to to go against a trend. So like it wasn't an absolute um uh. You know, the takeaway wasn't oh, you don't have to have star receivers. It's that Um, it's about a team and that can look a bunch of different ways, and just because one team does it one way doesn't mean, um, you have to do it. And the in that they were able to get a couple receivers that blocked, which helped them facilitate a true UM run pass conflict team, a team that could run or pass on first and second down. And and you know, starting the beginning ass of all the stuff that we do today, UM and know the receiver yeah, um, we we've both um uh. I think all the people in the in the tree have definitely um not just said okay, you don't need to pay receivers, quite the contrary, but it's all um. But I think that Lesson mannithest itself all over the place where it's, um, we need a team, and that can look many different ways. And sometimes you don't need a first or second round draft pick um to do things, um, to get things done. So then all of a sudden, the running back stuff happens where you're able to get production out of and then that becomes the thing. But that, to me, that's still that's still a different application of something that Mike Shannion showed us was you know, Mike Shannion was fearless. Mike Sharon would just do whatever made sense at all costs. And before you know, those are things he was doing before he won Super Bowl. Yeah, out of principle. And then he does that and then it really shapes shapes the way we think from a professional football roster assembly, and he sets forth the way we think for the for the next twenty twenty five years, which is why it makes no sense to us why he's not in the Hall of Fame. You know, I people will look back on twenty twelve in Washington and you guys went to the playoffs but didn't win. Beyond that, but you know, something Seize book was going on, and I you know, you tell me the story you'd been in the UFL and then came back, and you always tell the story of walking in and kind of hearing Sean McVay and Matt Lafleur in these meetings kind of you know, I don't know if it's a knowing is the word, but just being guys who were like the knew a lot, you know, it was annoying for me because I was like, well, I mean, these guys know a lot. It was it was more like and they're young, and you could tell they were excited. I mean they were they were just very passionate about everything they were doing. And so you know, to have a third voice trying to contribute to the same area UM within these staff meetings, that would have been annoying. So it was annoying that I was out of social awareness, cut out of the conversation. So you have to find h To me, it was obvious that these guys UM are really good. Um at certain things. What what is no one talking about? Okay? Well then we get the run game with an offensive blind play and Kyle's only talked to Chris firster, So I was like that guy, I don't really he knows which has got me started in the run game kind of go on a different path than than the other guys. It was a just a just a trial to of survival. I'm trying to find value. You know, I've known Vic Fangio for a long time, a good friend of Chris Foster, as you know, he you know his persona at least because I think there's a curbudget factor that he plays up. But he plays a guy who doesn't always gravitate to the positive. What he's talking not just about players, about whatever's going on. That he's an incredible coach, as you know. Um, you know, first of all, you know, I want you, I want to know what excites you about having him as your defensive coordinator. But secondly, there was a you know, there was a report that he was coming to Miami, and then Vic texted me and I think one other person and was like, I haven't made any decisions yet, And then it took a few days before it was official. Did that cause any stress or did you have it under control internally during that? So I guess I'll go second question before the first m the yes and no. I was chasing a scenario. I thought the best thing that could possibly do for the football team would be UM. I have a scenario where we could get the foremost expert in a defensive scheme in house and he would want to be here. So it was like under the guise of all, right, well he wants to be here, so UM and I was confident that I was confident in the in the auster that you know, Chris Greer have you had worked for years to UM build and and I was I from all testaments of my understand of who he was and all the relationships that I have with different people that have conveyed things to me about him, it seemed like it was a perfect fit between him and I and then what the team needed UM. And once that started as a thought, and then I met with them and I was like, oh, no, this is be honest thought, this is the right thing. I was pretty confident UM that it would work out. And you know, there's a bunch of different you know, vixman in the league a long time, so um, you know, there's there's certain things that he is um the utmost liberty and should um in terms of contract negotiation on this stuff for semantics. I was I could tell. I thought he could tell if it was um perfect for all parties involved. So it was it was something that I was very confident and since um you holy cow, was I right? Whoa alright already? Yeah? I mean did you did you have to promise him, like, you know, a specific pasta dish every Friday, like naming, naming your boy vic if you have a boy, like anything weird? He made me promise that, you know, that there would be at least on a couple occasions during the year that I would take him shopping and help his wardrobe. That's amazing because I know your wardrobe and we've been talking a lot. Yeah you know what, how can I dress like you? There's been I get that a lot, and we've gone on and on and this has been incredible. So I don't want to keep you forever. We'll have future, many future conversations, but let's talk about your word, Rod before we get out of here. There has been just clothes man, you I think you have an awareness that maybe there's some critique in going on in our world and with you know, and on the outside very much. Yeah, what's what's what's up with the word rook? Look at it like, um, I look at it like my my personality Okay, I Um, I think, uh, I can be a bit of an extremist. Yeah. And when when um, you sit there and you recognize that, uh, you know that there's a certain level of honesty, authenticity, and transparency that's very desirable for professional athletes and just people in general. Um, with all the evoluted things that go on in the world. Um, you know, I think I think for me, it's been kind of non negotiable to be myself that so then people see that in my personality. UM, well I fight like I don't stop that at my personality. I've always kind of like, UM, had an affinity for you know however, like shoes of of of always kind of like, UM liked matching my clothes and um, that's always kind of been a part of me, um, whatever that style is. And so even though I know I'm potentially putting the bulls on my back, UM, knowing that anything that I do. Um that is um not par for the course, is kind of doing that. I also don't give myself the option because like for me to be in my house, in my closet and then being like, oh, you know, yeah that's what I would wear, but they might say something about it now, then then I've just I've begun the slippery slope that is becoming something that isn't who I am. So I do I'm kind of oblivious to it. Um. You know some of the people that I work with, uh you know one time an indie or indie uh, I was getting ready to do an NFL deal and Chris gregoes, oh lether So then I was like, oh that that stood out to him. It's probably going to stand out to people. Okay, this might be a thing, and then people are commenting on my But I just that was the night we all hung out. And by the way, I'm just gonna go on record that was dope. Like I would tell you if I hadn't love that leather Jack, I mean, it's fantastic. But regardless if you did or didn't like, I was like, you know, this is what I want to wear. You know. It's one of those weird hard lines that you draw on the sand where it's just like I'm going to beat myself. This is art. Whatever. If I ever feel like you needed pick me up or it's getting to you, I'm gonna get a tape together, probably seven hundred different shots of you in clothes man, and we're gonna like you and two we're gonna sit down and start watching it. And you might not believe me at first, but I'm gonna be like those Zenas shoes within those socks, you know that, Yeah, that was you hit that right? No, and you know what you can see that people need that. Yeah, people need affirmation. Yeah. Can you leave us with like an open mic affirmation because we've done now twenty of these episodes and we've had incredible guests. Yeah, but you know you always wonder like is this hitting. We're here on the volume great network. So I have no idea how long this interview was. That's a real compliment, absolutely because it was actually it was in fact six hours and twenty three minutes. Right, I've missed flights, I've alienated my family, same, but wow, during the process, totally engaged, vibrant, and No. I went into this thinking this was going to be an exhaustive chore. Yeah for sure that I wouldn't enjoy this back and forth totally labor some and you know what, put a microphone in front of you and you's something to work with. Dude. This was awesome. God, that's just you know, I'm going to leave these owners meetings feeling more excited than a player who's switching to Jersey number zero. Officially, thank you for joining us. Can I speak to your Mike Mike? Mike Mike out, Mike appreciated, Mike fulfilled, Mike desirable, and in fact, Mike closed h